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no love
10-12-2007, 07:22 PM
AKA The elite back excuse thread.

This thread is for all of the people who are fans of elite backs* such as Steven Jackson, Frank Gore, Shaun Alexander, Ladanian Tomlinson, and Larry Johnson.

Where have our elite backs gone? Post the reasons why your elite back is not performing. Is it injuries, line play, game plan, etc.

Frank Gore: It's the same problems the 49ers have always had. A lot of people want to blame Hostler, but I really blame the lack of a deep threat or even a threat on the outside. Our Wrs are doing just about everything wrong from dropping passes, to running bad routes. Say what you want about Antonio Bryant, but he blocked well on the outside and provided the niners with a deep threat to make safeties think twice. The line hasn't been THAT bad, but now defenses don't have to worry about anyone except for Frank Gore.

*Note: The only other backs that I considered elite, that are not on this list are Brian Westbrook and Willie Parker. But if you want to say why your back is not performing go right ahead.

619
10-12-2007, 07:24 PM
AKA The elite back excuse thread.

This thread is for all of the people who are fans of elite backs* such as Steven Jackson, Frank Gore, Shaun Alexander, Ladanian Tomlinson, and Larry Johnson.

Where have our elite backs gone? Post the reasons why your elite back is not performing. Is it injuries, line play, game plan, etc.

Frank Gore: It's the same problems the 49ers have always had. A lot of people want to blame Hostler, but I really blame the lack of a deep threat or even a threat on the outside. Our Wrs are doing just about everything wrong from dropping passes, to running bad routes. Say what you want about Antonio Bryant, but he blocked well on the outside and provided the niners with a deep threat to make safeties think twice. The line hasn't been THAT bad, but now defenses don't have to worry about anyone except for Frank Gore.

*Note: The only other backs that I considered elite, that are not on this list are Brian Westbrook and Willie Parker. But if you want to say why your back is not performing go right ahead.

times have changed and some of them u mentioned arent elite any longer due to several reasons such as age, injuries, O-Line, supporting cast, etc

TitanHope
10-12-2007, 07:30 PM
I wouldn't say Frank Gore is an elite back yet, but it depends on the definition. He's only had one great year. The other players listed have had two or more great years.

no love
10-12-2007, 07:41 PM
Well then who would you consider elite?

619
10-12-2007, 07:50 PM
LT and Westbrook are the only RBs i can see as ELITE

scottyboy
10-12-2007, 07:53 PM
I've always considered Ronnie Brown better than people have given him credit for. If he keeps this season up, I think he may make his way toward "elite" status.

BrownsTown
10-12-2007, 07:54 PM
LT and Westbrook are the only RBs i can see as ELITE

Westbrook? Seriously? How can you be elite if you can't run between the tackles?

I think right now the only ones you can really say are elite are Joseph Addai and Willie Parker.

619
10-12-2007, 07:55 PM
I've always considered Ronnie Brown better than people have given him credit for. If he keeps this season up, I think he may make his way toward "elite" status.

AGREED. hes a beast with freakish ability at a coveted position and doin this all on a crappy team

619
10-12-2007, 07:56 PM
Westbrook? Seriously? How can you be elite if you can't run between the tackles?

I think right now the only ones you can really say are elite are Joseph Addai and Willie Parker.

its not always about the numbers u know lol

BrownsTown
10-12-2007, 08:00 PM
its not always about the numbers u know lol

lol says the person who says Brian Westbrook is elite. He's all about numbers. Parker and Addai are the only ones who have really been consistently good this year.

Go_Eagles77
10-12-2007, 08:01 PM
Westbrook? Seriously? How can you be elite if you can't run between the tackles?



When was the last time you saw Brian Westbrook play?

doingthisinsteadofwork
10-12-2007, 08:01 PM
I consider Lamont Jordan elite.

TitanHope
10-12-2007, 08:02 PM
Well then who would you consider elite?

Tomlinson, Alexander, and L. Johnson are the only ones I consider to be
"Elite." I would have put Jackson in that category if he would have had a good year. Frank Gore, as I said, had one great year.

When discussing the Top 5 RB's in the NFL last year, then yeah, I have no problem with your opinion.

neko4
10-12-2007, 08:04 PM
I kidnapped all of them and replaced them with clones that sucked.
As a packer fan i feel jealous that all these teams have elite backs...
Next on my list:
Westbrook
Parker
Addai
Portis
Brown

619
10-12-2007, 08:05 PM
When was the last time you saw Brian Westbrook play?

we can all just look at your sig and see for ourselves :p

BrownsTown
10-12-2007, 08:05 PM
When was the last time you saw Brian Westbrook play?

I'm not going to lie and say I've seen him every week, but when I see him he seems to be incapable of running inside. Just not his strength. He isn't a complete RB, which is why I don't consider him elite.

619
10-12-2007, 08:05 PM
I kidnapped all of them and replaced them with clones that sucked.
As a packer fan i feel jealous that all these teams have elite backs...
Next on my list:
Westbrook
Parker
Addai
Portis
Brown

portis elite??

keylime_5
10-12-2007, 08:06 PM
Tomlinson, Johnson, S.Jackson, and Frank Gore are the elite backs in the league right now. Alexander is past his prime, he's only going down from here on out. Everyone else has issues that make them not elite.

EDIT: ....and Brian westbrook is not, never was, never will be considered an elite back. He's good, not elite. That would be a heck of a way to soil the term.

scottyboy
10-12-2007, 08:06 PM
I consider Lamont Jordan elite.

sure if elite changed to meaning being slow

duckseason
10-12-2007, 08:06 PM
This just further illustrates the fact that stats attributed to individual players is not always an accurate measure of that players worth or skill. While these guys all possess tremendous talent, (some more so than others) I think it's important to realize that the stats they accumulate is a reflection of the entire team. Many variables go into creating a great statistical season for a RB, and just as many go into creating a statistical letdown the following year. These guys are just representatives for their respective teams' rushing attack.

619
10-12-2007, 08:07 PM
sure if elite changed to meaning being slow

production is production and u cant deny that from him but then again this is comin from a raider fan

scottyboy
10-12-2007, 08:09 PM
Well Brian Leonard sure isnt elite... He's WAY passed that level. He's HOF/god status right now

619
10-12-2007, 08:11 PM
This just further illustrates the fact that stats attributed to individual players is not always an accurate measure of that players worth or skill. While these guys all possess tremendous talent, (some more so than others) I think it's important to realize that the stats they accumulate is a reflection of the entire team. Many variables go into creating a great statistical season for a RB, and just as many go into creating a statistical letdown the following year. These guys are just representatives for their respective teams' rushing attack.

AKA parker and addai

Windy
10-12-2007, 08:12 PM
Well Brian Leonard sure isnt elite... He's WAY passed that level. He's HOF/god status right now

it never gets old. it's WAY past that level.

Xenos
10-12-2007, 08:12 PM
LT: The 9 to 10 men stacked lines prevent him from running very far. However, he's still as dangerous as ever in space, so it's more important than anything that we get him the ball through screens and other types of passes. If he's not going to get his yards rushing, then he needs to get it through receptions.

duckseason
10-12-2007, 08:16 PM
AKA parker and addai

Yeah, there's no question both those guys benefit from playing for the teams they do. But I'm pretty much talking about every player in the NFL. Nobody stands alone in this league. Not even the kicker or punter.

Go_Eagles77
10-12-2007, 08:17 PM
I'm not going to lie and say I've seen him every week, but when I see him he seems to be incapable of running inside. Just not his strength. He isn't a complete RB, which is why I don't consider him elite.

It may not be his strength but he is definitely not incapable of it, he is actually built pretty well to run in-between the tackles (only 5-8 but 205 pounds) and 2 years ago I would definitely agree with you but starting last year he has improved significantly in that area. A good amount of his plays he takes a draw and goes straight up the middle and can get a good chunk of yards.

I wouldn't even call him an elite back, but he's pretty close.

yodabear
10-12-2007, 08:18 PM
I still think Steven Jackson is elite. He is hurt this year, four-fifths of our o-line is injured, the huge one being Pace. Its not an excuse, its the way it is. And people who think other wise can suck it.

PACKmanN
10-12-2007, 08:19 PM
portis elite??

how isn't he elite?

duckseason
10-12-2007, 08:20 PM
What Westbrook may lack as a pure RB, he more than makes up for as an overall playmaker. He is an elite player, imo. He's what Reggie Bush is striving to be.

scottyboy
10-12-2007, 08:25 PM
it never gets old. it's WAY past that level.

yes, but if i said that, i might've sounded like a HOMER :O

(i really think he's at immortal status, but lets give him a year or 2)

BrownsTown
10-12-2007, 08:26 PM
I still think Steven Jackson is elite. He is hurt this year, four-fifths of our o-line is injured, the huge one being Pace. Its not an excuse, its the way it is. And people who think other wise can suck it.

I agree. But what's with you and telling people to suck it today?

scottyboy
10-12-2007, 08:28 PM
I agree. But what's with you and telling people to suck it today?

because I'm mad at him and he needs someone to replace my services

yodabear
10-12-2007, 08:29 PM
I agree. But what's with you and telling people to suck it today?

Cuz I am menstrating.......JK, IDK.

LonghornsLegend
10-12-2007, 09:05 PM
Please see sig for reference :)

scottyboy
10-12-2007, 09:09 PM
Please see sig for reference :)

you havent heard?? He quit football to open up Marion's Barber shop. Jones left too, he opened up an Orange Juluis Jones stand.

neko4
10-12-2007, 09:10 PM
portis elite??
usually when you rush for 1500 yards 3 times in a 5 year career (and one of those years you were hurt and the other you were adjusting to a new system) you are elite. He's played well this year too.

Sniper
10-12-2007, 09:16 PM
Westbrook? Seriously? How can you be elite if you can't run between the tackles?



Thanks for not going by something that might have been true three years ago. Now in 2007, your statement is incorrect.

619
10-12-2007, 09:16 PM
usually when you rush for 1500 yards 3 times in a 5 year career (and one of those years you were hurt and the other you were adjusting to a new system) you are elite. He's played well this year too.

he played in denver...HELLO

wiscbadgerfootball
10-12-2007, 09:18 PM
yeah I traded for Ronnie Brown at the beginning of the season and boy is it panning out

scottyboy
10-12-2007, 09:19 PM
i dislike Westbrook. I dislike his college. I dislike the pro team he is on. I dislike the stats he puts up against the Giants. But damn, the kids a baller. He can catch and he runs fast. I'm not sure he's an elite "running back", but he's one helluva all around player.

BrownsTown
10-12-2007, 09:19 PM
Thanks for not going by something that might have been true three years ago. Now in 2007, your statement is incorrect.

Thanks for being a prick and not reading my response to him before posting. Now, you can go read what I said in response to him and respond to that if you want to.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
10-12-2007, 09:57 PM
Steven Jackson has been injured. He was finding his groove before the injury

619
10-12-2007, 10:03 PM
Steven Jackson has been injured. He was finding his groove before the injury

30 carries for 115 yards in his last game before injury..not sure if thats so good considering the amount of rushes

BrownsTown
10-12-2007, 10:05 PM
30 carries for 115 yards in his last game before injury..not sure if thats so good considering the amount of rushes

With that Oline it is, I don't know how he even got that.

I'm even more surprised Brian Leonard topped 100 too, on only 18 carries.

I also have a feeling scottyboy will respond to this in a homerish fashion.

Sniper
10-12-2007, 10:12 PM
Thanks for being a prick and not reading my response to him before posting. Now, you can go read what I said in response to him and respond to that if you want to.

My apologies BT, I didn't see there was a page 2. I'm embarrassed now ;)

bearfan
10-12-2007, 10:22 PM
yeah I traded for Ronnie Brown at the beginning of the season and boy is it panning out

go to hell man lol. Travis Henry is in freaking Denver, I was expecting beyond the world stats. Well looks like I am the Bull Goose Looney.

And Westbrook is definantly no doubt in my mind elite. I dont see many eagles games, but I saw that Lions game *granted its the Lions* and he absolutley dominated them. When you have a player who can break a run, and get 100yard rushing often you have a good player, but when you get a guy who can do that AND catch for 100 yards you have an elite player

BrownsTown
10-12-2007, 10:24 PM
go to hell man lol. Travis Henry is in freaking Denver, I was expecting beyond the world stats. Well looks like I am the Bull Goose Looney.

And Westbrook is definantly no doubt in my mind elite. I dont see many eagles games, but I saw that Lions game *granted its the Lions* and he absolutley dominated them. When you have a player who can break a run, and get 100yard rushing often you have a good player, but when you get a guy who can do that AND catch for 100 yards you have an elite player

Against the Lions? Come on man, that doesn't count.

Sniper
10-12-2007, 10:40 PM
Against the Lions? Come on man, that doesn't count.

Westbrook's had big games vs. pretty much anyone recently. He's the only threat on our offense

yo123
10-12-2007, 10:42 PM
guys come on LT is still elite. No running back in the history of football could put up good numbers running behind that line right now.

255979119
10-12-2007, 10:58 PM
guys come on LT is still elite. No running back in the history of football could put up good numbers running behind that line right now.

Did you see Turner last week?

yodabear
10-12-2007, 11:06 PM
30 carries for 115 yards in his last game before injury..not sure if thats so good considering the amount of rushes

Congrats thats your 2nd stupid quote in the same thread.

Stash
10-12-2007, 11:28 PM
guys come on LT is still elite. No running back in the history of football could put up good numbers running behind that line right now.

I agree that he is elite, but isn't he running behind the same o-line he set records running behind last season?

yourfavestoner
10-13-2007, 12:22 AM
If Reggie Bush were to come anywhere close to putting up Westbrook's numbers, people would be calling him "elite."

Westbrook is one of the most dangerous players in the entire league. The Philadelphia offense lives and dies with him. If you don't think he's elite, then you're a fool.

yourfavestoner
10-13-2007, 12:24 AM
I agree that he is elite, but isn't he running behind the same o-line he set records running behind last season?

Yes, but they've really regressed overall as a unit. They get no surge in the run blocking department. It seems like the d-line is constantly beating them off the ball and getting penetration.

JK17
10-13-2007, 12:25 AM
I agree that he is elite, but isn't he running behind the same o-line he set records running behind last season?

As for LT, there are three main possible reasons I see for his struggling. The O-Line blocking isn't at the level it was last year, however he should be able to overcome that. The second is Rivers' still hasn't done enough to take the guy out of the box when LT is in there; when Turner comes in the guy comes out making it easier for him to succeed. The third possible reason is, that perhaps LT is on the decline. I don't choose to believe that or buy into it, and think its more of a combination of the first two, however it can't be ignored as a "possibility".

EDIT: To be honest, whats been bothering me most about LT this year isn't as much his performance but his attitude. Whereas in years past he's been respectful and a leader, this year he seems to be frustrated with nearly everything around him, and has been more vocal in causing it to be a distraction. I'm dissatisifed with the coaching, but I don't want to hear about LT calling them out. I've been disapointd with Rivers at times this year, but I don't want to see LT throwing a fit because he isn't getting the ball. It makes it hard for others to step up as leaders, like I feel Rivers, despite poor play, has been trying to do.

soybean
10-13-2007, 12:52 AM
LT: The 9 to 10 men stacked lines prevent him from running very far. However, he's still as dangerous as ever in space, so it's more important than anything that we get him the ball through screens and other types of passes. If he's not going to get his yards rushing, then he needs to get it through receptions.

why did michael turner do so well last game then?

LonghornsLegend
10-13-2007, 12:58 AM
As for LT, there are three main possible reasons I see for his struggling. The O-Line blocking isn't at the level it was last year, however he should be able to overcome that. The second is Rivers' still hasn't done enough to take the guy out of the box when LT is in there; when Turner comes in the guy comes out making it easier for him to succeed. The third possible reason is, that perhaps LT is on the decline. I don't choose to believe that or buy into it, and think its more of a combination of the first two, however it can't be ignored as a "possibility".

EDIT: To be honest, whats been bothering me most about LT this year isn't as much his performance but his attitude. Whereas in years past he's been respectful and a leader, this year he seems to be frustrated with nearly everything around him, and has been more vocal in causing it to be a distraction. I'm dissatisifed with the coaching, but I don't want to hear about LT calling them out. I've been disapointd with Rivers at times this year, but I don't want to see LT throwing a fit because he isn't getting the ball. It makes it hard for others to step up as leaders, like I feel Rivers, despite poor play, has been trying to do.


good post, thats pretty honest too...I still dont think LT is on the decline yet, but its baffling to see the same O line struggle when they were so dominant..How is Mcneil playing this year?

Vikes99ej
10-13-2007, 02:56 AM
These elite backs haven't gotten "worse". The play of Adrian Peterson has just made look that way :)

scottyboy
10-13-2007, 06:58 AM
With that Oline it is, I don't know how he even got that.

I'm even more surprised Brian Leonard topped 100 too, on only 18 carries.

I also have a feeling scottyboy will respond to this in a homerish fashion.

nah, i wont say anything except he's a HOF lock/god. that's it.

619
10-13-2007, 07:54 AM
Congrats thats your 2nd stupid quote in the same thread.

gotta look at ypc dude and i stand by the fact portis isnt elite

JK17
10-13-2007, 10:16 AM
good post, thats pretty honest too...I still dont think LT is on the decline yet, but its baffling to see the same O line struggle when they were so dominant..How is Mcneil playing this year?

He's been playing OK. He looked a lot better recently then the earliest few games, and LT's biggest day we consistnetly ran left, left, left. But he doesnt' look as good as he did last year....then again, none of us do.

JK17
10-13-2007, 10:24 AM
why did michael turner do so well last game then?

Well he doesn't demand the same attention from the defense LT does...and the only good game he played this season was last game...

andyjo672
10-13-2007, 10:31 AM
These elite backs haven't gotten "worse". The play of Adrian Peterson has just made look that way :)

I like AD's chances of becoming "elite," however, its still too early, too many things can go wrong.

But, based on how he looks so far, I think he could be the 2nd best back behind LT by next year.

Who knows though, with running backs I feel like the good backs change from year to year. Back in the 90's you always had Smith, Sanders, etc. Now a days, I feel like its become sort of a revolving door with backs stepping up having a couple of good years, then fading back into mediocrity (with the exception of LT)

bearfan
10-13-2007, 10:51 AM
Well he doesn't demand the same attention from the defense LT does...and the only good game he played this season was last game...


plus you guys were up huge on them. I believe his runs were later in the 4th quarter, or in the 4th quarter when the game was lost right?

yodabear
10-13-2007, 12:05 PM
gotta look at ypc dude and i stand by the fact portis isnt elite

Actually, I agree with ya on something: Portis is not elite IMO. However, like someone else said in this thread: getting over 100 yards with are crappy offensive line the way it is: its good. Even if u have 100 carries for 100 yards.

remix 6
10-13-2007, 12:20 PM
Portis has a 4.5 ypc average with Jansen out and a young QB.

i consider Portis elite. he was before last season where he missed a lot of time

i also consider Westbrook an elite back because not only is he a great runner..hes a great receiver. he makes people miss so well and knows where to go with the ball.also underrated strength and inside running. hes as complete of a back as your gonna find a long with LT-Jackson and maybe Portis in terms of blocking, receiving, running.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-13-2007, 12:34 PM
he played in denver...HELLO

So? Have you not noticed that only three backs have made the running game elite? TD did it. Then we had a void where our running game was good, but not something that could 100% carry us. Then Portis came and our running game was elite again. Then he left and Anderson, Tatum and Mike Bell couldnt make it elite, just very good again. Then Henry came(who has ran for 1000 yards on two other teams, very underrated) and our running game returned almost to that level. The Denver system helps average backs run for 1000 yards and 4 ypc, if a guy hits 1500 and 5 or more ypc, guess what, he's a good player.

Jakey
10-13-2007, 01:34 PM
As for LT, there are three main possible reasons I see for his struggling. The O-Line blocking isn't at the level it was last year, however he should be able to overcome that. The second is Rivers' still hasn't done enough to take the guy out of the box when LT is in there; when Turner comes in the guy comes out making it easier for him to succeed. The third possible reason is, that perhaps LT is on the decline. I don't choose to believe that or buy into it, and think its more of a combination of the first two, however it can't be ignored as a "possibility".

EDIT: To be honest, whats been bothering me most about LT this year isn't as much his performance but his attitude. Whereas in years past he's been respectful and a leader, this year he seems to be frustrated with nearly everything around him, and has been more vocal in causing it to be a distraction. I'm dissatisifed with the coaching, but I don't want to hear about LT calling them out. I've been disapointd with Rivers at times this year, but I don't want to see LT throwing a fit because he isn't getting the ball. It makes it hard for others to step up as leaders, like I feel Rivers, despite poor play, has been trying to do.

Dont forget that his Dad and his brother?? died in a car crash in the offseason, im pretty sure that would effect a player in a negative way. Even if its not effecting him now, it most prolly was during the offeason and workouts. And he also missed the preseason, all of these things (and the fact that the Chargers are struggling) are bound to make a dude frustrated, and effect his mental and physical game. I just wondered if anyone had thought of this??

p.s I most probably got some facts wrong, if i have just ignore me! ;)

awfullyquiet
10-13-2007, 11:48 PM
Yeah, there's no question both those guys benefit from playing for the teams they do. But I'm pretty much talking about every player in the NFL. Nobody stands alone in this league. Not even the kicker or punter.

no. the punter stands alone. the kicker stands with the holder.

osi+ap=allshallperish
10-14-2007, 12:30 AM
I'm not going to lie and say I've seen him every week, but when I see him he seems to be incapable of running inside. Just not his strength. He isn't a complete RB, which is why I don't consider him elite.

That's incorrect, while westrook is more deadly in space he's still exceptional between the tackles, just doesn't truck people but neither did barry sanders, arguably the best running back of all time. Not saying he's on barry's level, or even close for that matter just saying that the fact that he doesn't truck people should not preclude him from elite status.

duckseason
10-14-2007, 12:49 AM
no. the punter stands alone. the kicker stands with the holder.
Punters must rely on protection, coverage and an accurate snap. Can you imagine watching a punter snap it to himself, avoid the rush, get off a worthwhile kick, then avoid 10 blockers on their way to making the tackle? Like I said, there is no player in this game who doesn't rely on his teammates and coaches. You don't achieve a damn thing in this league without some help from the players around you.

awfullyquiet
10-14-2007, 12:51 AM
Punters must rely on protection, coverage and an accurate snap. Can you imagine watching a punter snap it to himself, avoid the rush, get off a worthwhile kick, then avoid 10 blockers on their way to making the tackle? Like I said, there is no player in this game who doesn't rely on his teammates and coaches. You don't achieve a damn thing in this league without some help from the players around you.

i was being rather silly.

i agree with you, the lines are nothing without their skill players
and skill players are nothing without their lines.
and same goes with coverage
to determine someones ability to be good in coverage is to determine their lines pressure, to determine someons run stopping abilities on the line, you have to draw from the secondaries portion of run stopping.

duckseason
10-14-2007, 12:55 AM
i was being rather silly.

i agree with you, the lines are nothing without their skill players
and skill players are nothing without their lines.
and same goes with coverage
to determine someones ability to be good in coverage is to determine their lines pressure, to determine someons run stopping abilities on the line, you have to draw from the secondaries portion of run stopping.

Yeah I thought you were joking but couldn't come up with anything funny to say in reply so I just kept it serious and pretended that you were a dummy.

awfullyquiet
10-14-2007, 12:56 AM
Yeah I thought you were joking but couldn't come up with anything funny to say in reply so I just kept it serious and pretended that you were a dummy.

A+

really. it's late. my punnyness is rather lacking.

skinzzfan25
10-14-2007, 10:13 AM
Portis has a 4.5 ypc average with Jansen out and a young QB.

i consider Portis elite. he was before last season where he missed a lot of time

i also consider Westbrook an elite back because not only is he a great runner..hes a great receiver. he makes people miss so well and knows where to go with the ball.also underrated strength and inside running. hes as complete of a back as your gonna find a long with LT-Jackson and maybe Portis in terms of blocking, receiving, running.

Just wanted to add Jansen AND Randy Thomas are out. Our whole right side of the line is gone + newly added Kendall. We're using a rotation of 2 career backups and a UDFA. Plus, Portis is one of/the best run blocking RBs in the league.

I defiantly consider Westbrook elite. He is a game changer and the only legit threat on Philly's offense this year. Westbrook has been given the shaft for so long, but by now you have to consider him elite.

bernbabybern820
10-14-2007, 10:27 AM
Just wanted to add Jansen AND Randy Thomas are out. Our whole right side of the line is gone + newly added Kendall. We're using a rotation of 2 career backups and a UDFA. Plus, Portis is one of/the best run blocking RBs in the league.

I defiantly consider Westbrook elite. He is a game changer and the only legit threat on Philly's offense this year. Westbrook has been given the shaft for so long, but by now you have to consider him elite.

Not to mention hes also the best tackling rb in the league. :)

scottyboy
10-14-2007, 10:29 AM
Not to mention hes also the best tackling rb in the league. :)

that would have to be Leonard. He was recruited as a OLB to RU and doesnt seperate his shoulder making a tackle in preseason...

skinzzfan25
10-14-2007, 10:30 AM
Not to mention hes also the best tackling rb in the league. :)

Haha yeah, but half the time he does it, he hurts himself -.-

marks01234
10-14-2007, 03:10 PM
As for LT, there are three main possible reasons I see for his struggling. The O-Line blocking isn't at the level it was last year, however he should be able to overcome that. The second is Rivers' still hasn't done enough to take the guy out of the box when LT is in there; when Turner comes in the guy comes out making it easier for him to succeed. The third possible reason is, that perhaps LT is on the decline. I don't choose to believe that or buy into it, and think its more of a combination of the first two, however it can't be ignored as a "possibility".

EDIT: To be honest, whats been bothering me most about LT this year isn't as much his performance but his attitude. Whereas in years past he's been respectful and a leader, this year he seems to be frustrated with nearly everything around him, and has been more vocal in causing it to be a distraction. I'm dissatisifed with the coaching, but I don't want to hear about LT calling them out. I've been disapointd with Rivers at times this year, but I don't want to see LT throwing a fit because he isn't getting the ball. It makes it hard for others to step up as leaders, like I feel Rivers, despite poor play, has been trying to do.


I somewhat disagree with you.

The blame the majority of the Chargers offensive problems on the continued shaky WR play and the bad OL play from the beginning of the year. Rivers' has seen unreal pressure this year with almost no run game to at all (before the Broncos performance). Last year the Chargers were so successul because they forced you to stop the run. And then when you finally figured out how to, Rivers burned you with Gates and McCardell. This year they are depending on Rivers to beat you with really just Gates. If the WR's were anywhere close to average this team would be much, much better. Imagine how effective Gates could be with a deep threat opening things up. Vincent Jackson looks the part but his continued drops and inconsistenct routes are killing the passing offense.

BTW, I think Turner is a top 5 back in the league. I think next year somebody will get a terrific talent.

Here would be my rankings -

1. LT - Best run pass/threat in the league
2. Brian Westbrook - The Eagles O would be nowhere without him
3. Larry Johnson - Lack of a decent OL hurts his numbers
4. Ronnie Brown - Great size, speed and hands - huge potential
5. Michael Turner - See Ronnie Brown
6. Steven Jackson - Was my #2 prior to this year
7. Willis McGhaee - Putting up big numbers behind a young line
8. Frank Gore - Fumbles drop him
9. Arian Peterson - Already showing his dominance, must prove to not be injury prone
10. Willie Parker - Great speed back benefits from running behind great line
11. Edgerrin James - Still one of the league's best
12. Clinton Portis - Injuries have diminished his burst and power
13. Thomas Jones - Looking good for second team
14. Marshawn Lynch - Bills running game has upgraded around him
15. Travis Henry - Putting up huge numbers in Denver's system
16. Shaun Alexander - Age and injuries have limited his burst
17. Cadillac Williams - Hate to see his latest injury
18. Lamont Jordan - Showing why the Raiders gave him big money
19. Deuce McAllister - Latest injury could diminish him to backup role
20. Jamal Lewis - Showing some signs of life again
21. Marion Barber - Great burst, can he handle the load himself?
22. Ahmad Green - Texans O is really one dimensional without him
23. DeShaun Foster - Fumbles and Injuries still remain
24. Maurice Jones-Drew - All purpose back has a bright future
25. Brandon Jacobs - Still waiting on him to really break out.

Just off the list - Warrick Dunn, Reggie Bush, Leon Washington, Laurence Maroney, Sammy Morris, Fred Taylor, Cedric Benson, Julius Jones

yo123
10-14-2007, 03:27 PM
The elite back lives in the metrodome

BamaFalcon59
10-14-2007, 05:12 PM
1. LaDainian Tomlinson
2. Adrian Peterson
3. Larry Johnson
4. Steven Jackson
5. Brian Westbrook

BuckNaked
10-14-2007, 05:14 PM
I somewhat disagree with you.

The blame the majority of the Chargers offensive problems on the continued shaky WR play and the bad OL play from the beginning of the year. Rivers' has seen unreal pressure this year with almost no run game to at all (before the Broncos performance). Last year the Chargers were so successul because they forced you to stop the run. And then when you finally figured out how to, Rivers burned you with Gates and McCardell. This year they are depending on Rivers to beat you with really just Gates. If the WR's were anywhere close to average this team would be much, much better. Imagine how effective Gates could be with a deep threat opening things up. Vincent Jackson looks the part but his continued drops and inconsistenct routes are killing the passing offense.

BTW, I think Turner is a top 5 back in the league. I think next year somebody will get a terrific talent.

Here would be my rankings -

1. LT - Best run pass/threat in the league
2. Brian Westbrook - The Eagles O would be nowhere without him
3. Larry Johnson - Lack of a decent OL hurts his numbers
4. Ronnie Brown - Great size, speed and hands - huge potential
5. Michael Turner - See Ronnie Brown
6. Steven Jackson - Was my #2 prior to this year
7. Willis McGhaee - Putting up big numbers behind a young line
8. Frank Gore - Fumbles drop him
9. Arian Peterson - Already showing his dominance, must prove to not be injury prone
10. Willie Parker - Great speed back benefits from running behind great line
11. Edgerrin James - Still one of the league's best
12. Clinton Portis - Injuries have diminished his burst and power
13. Thomas Jones - Looking good for second team
14. Marshawn Lynch - Bills running game has upgraded around him
15. Travis Henry - Putting up huge numbers in Denver's system
16. Shaun Alexander - Age and injuries have limited his burst
17. Cadillac Williams - Hate to see his latest injury
18. Lamont Jordan - Showing why the Raiders gave him big money
19. Deuce McAllister - Latest injury could diminish him to backup role
20. Jamal Lewis - Showing some signs of life again
21. Marion Barber - Great burst, can he handle the load himself?
22. Ahmad Green - Texans O is really one dimensional without him
23. DeShaun Foster - Fumbles and Injuries still remain
24. Maurice Jones-Drew - All purpose back has a bright future
25. Brandon Jacobs - Still waiting on him to really break out.

Just off the list - Warrick Dunn, Reggie Bush, Leon Washington, Laurence Maroney, Sammy Morris, Fred Taylor, Cedric Benson, Julius Jones

Oh my god, how is it even possible that a person can even make an argument to say that Michael Turner is a better runningback than Adrian Peterson?

Ravens1991
10-14-2007, 05:14 PM
quick question, were do you all consider Willis McGahee. I think he is top 10, he constantly gets atleast 2 yards and can get 10+, plus catch out of the backfield.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-14-2007, 05:46 PM
Oh ****. I just realised Denver will be entertaining AD later this year. Awwww crap. Say hello to the rushing record after you take it from Willie Parker(who will set it next week), AD.

SchizophrenicBatman
10-14-2007, 06:25 PM
Where have the elite RBs gone? Ask their OLines, they're at least half the equation

marks01234
10-14-2007, 09:18 PM
Oh my god, how is it even possible that a person can even make an argument to say that Michael Turner is a better runningback than Adrian Peterson?

Well I made the post before Peterson ran for 200 today.

That being said, Turner is going to be scary good. He's an absolute monster in the open field with his size and quickness.

7-11
10-14-2007, 09:49 PM
I somewhat disagree with you.

The blame the majority of the Chargers offensive problems on the continued shaky WR play and the bad OL play from the beginning of the year. Rivers' has seen unreal pressure this year with almost no run game to at all (before the Broncos performance). Last year the Chargers were so successul because they forced you to stop the run. And then when you finally figured out how to, Rivers burned you with Gates and McCardell. This year they are depending on Rivers to beat you with really just Gates. If the WR's were anywhere close to average this team would be much, much better. Imagine how effective Gates could be with a deep threat opening things up. Vincent Jackson looks the part but his continued drops and inconsistenct routes are killing the passing offense.

BTW, I think Turner is a top 5 back in the league. I think next year somebody will get a terrific talent.

Here would be my rankings -

1. LT - Best run pass/threat in the league
2. Brian Westbrook - The Eagles O would be nowhere without him
3. Larry Johnson - Lack of a decent OL hurts his numbers
4. Ronnie Brown - Great size, speed and hands - huge potential
5. Michael Turner - See Ronnie Brown
6. Steven Jackson - Was my #2 prior to this year
7. Willis McGhaee - Putting up big numbers behind a young line
8. Frank Gore - Fumbles drop him
9. Arian Peterson - Already showing his dominance, must prove to not be injury prone
10. Willie Parker - Great speed back benefits from running behind great line
11. Edgerrin James - Still one of the league's best
12. Clinton Portis - Injuries have diminished his burst and power
13. Thomas Jones - Looking good for second team
14. Marshawn Lynch - Bills running game has upgraded around him
15. Travis Henry - Putting up huge numbers in Denver's system
16. Shaun Alexander - Age and injuries have limited his burst
17. Cadillac Williams - Hate to see his latest injury
18. Lamont Jordan - Showing why the Raiders gave him big money
19. Deuce McAllister - Latest injury could diminish him to backup role
20. Jamal Lewis - Showing some signs of life again
21. Marion Barber - Great burst, can he handle the load himself?
22. Ahmad Green - Texans O is really one dimensional without him
23. DeShaun Foster - Fumbles and Injuries still remain
24. Maurice Jones-Drew - All purpose back has a bright future
25. Brandon Jacobs - Still waiting on him to really break out.

Just off the list - Warrick Dunn, Reggie Bush, Leon Washington, Laurence Maroney, Sammy Morris, Fred Taylor, Cedric Benson, Julius Jones

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you simpy forgot about Joseph Addai? If you really do think 33 other running backs in the nfl are better then him i'm going to make another assumption, your brain was lost in a horrible accident, and for that i am sorry

yo123
10-14-2007, 09:54 PM
My top 10

1. LT
2. AD
3. Ronnie Brown
4. LJ
5. Willie Parker
6. Brian Westbrook
7. Steven Jackson
8. Joseph Addai
9. Marion Barber III
10. Willis McGahee

no love
10-15-2007, 02:00 AM
Where have the elite RBs gone? Ask their OLines, they're at least half the equation

I brought up this topic because in most cases its much more complex than just o-line play. It could be scheme, inconsistent wr play, drop-off in the actual ability of the rb, or even missing a key person who made it all come together,

For instance, with the 49ers the line play is not terrible but there is usually 1 too many players to account for. I think Moran Norris, who played great last year, is just not blowing people out of the hole like he did last yr. In addition, schemewise the 49ers have used a lot more two te sets and less two back sets which is fine if you are setting the edges for outside runs, but not as great if you have a guy like Gore who runs in the middle the majority of the time.

To make problems worse we have used far less 0-line motion (traps and pulling of the smiley) and much more in-line blocking. This has really reduced the strength of guys like Heitmann and Smiley who are athletic enough to move but really get no push when blocking in-line.

And these are just the problems on the interior. I have already talked about our craptastic wr play being the root of our problems.

If we all wanted a simple solution we could always point fingers towards the line without watching any of the games. But thats why I wanted to know about the specifics of each team, is there one guy who is obviously not pulling their weight? Have guys like Alexander just lost a step? Was Steven Jackson's injury really effecting him a lot or was it more the teams overall inability to move the ball on offense? It's more complicated than just the line.

Geo
10-18-2007, 12:22 PM
Scouts, Inc. gives their Top Ten of runningbacks ... with pictures! (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/flash/zoomGallery?section=gen&photoGalleryId=3067631)

It's actually not too bad a list, although LJ should be switched with Westbrook, and Gore should be higher.

Sniper
10-18-2007, 12:29 PM
Scouts, Inc. gives their Top Ten of runningbacks ... with pictures! (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/flash/zoomGallery?section=gen&photoGalleryId=3067631)

It's actually not too bad a list, although LJ should be switched with Westbrook, and Gore should be higher.

I think Westbrook is a little low. I know Peterson is amazing, but he's done it for 5 games. Addai's done it for a season and five games. Give me a break....Ronnie Brown has 5 good games and he's ahead of Westbrook? Seriously?

Geo
10-18-2007, 12:33 PM
Yeah, I was left scratching my head too about Westy being so low.

Also Gore, it's not his fault his offensive line blows chunks. Granted he might drop the occassional pass and fumble the occassional ball, but he's a stud.

terribletowel39
10-18-2007, 03:03 PM
and when Colts Rb Keith can come in and do the same thing Addai is doing, i don't think addai should be above any of those ppl. granted addai is a helluva back but all those guys are better, i believe. and from what we have seen so far AD is 2nd. i know its early and put him ahead of SJax but yea.

Green Bay Scat
10-18-2007, 03:10 PM
im so glad Ronnie Brown is doing good, next to Antrel Rolle he was my favorite guy in the 05 draft

Shiver
10-18-2007, 03:16 PM
Ronnie Brown is doing better than just good. He's having a great season.

619
10-18-2007, 03:17 PM
I think Westbrook is a little low. I know Peterson is amazing, but he's done it for 5 games. Addai's done it for a season and five games. Give me a break....Ronnie Brown has 5 good games and he's ahead of Westbrook? Seriously?

they are looking at talent more than production in this case..i would actually have peterson only behind LT and westbrook just after him so the list isnt perfect either

Green Bay Scat
10-18-2007, 03:18 PM
Ronnie Brown is doing better than just good. He's having a great season.

i didnt want to risk people attacking me, hes the man, and hes the future LT, but i dont want to be hated, i mean me the next Tnew41?

Geo
10-18-2007, 04:29 PM
It's too bad the forum lost the 2005 runningbacks thread, I said Ronnie Brown would explode this year now that he had Cam Cameron as his head coach. He's a superb talent who now can fully flourish, and the team can still get better as they bring in more talent on the offense.

BuckNaked
10-18-2007, 04:52 PM
i didnt want to risk people attacking me, hes the man, and hes the future LT, but i dont want to be hated, i mean me the next Tnew41?

Do you ever just sit for a second and think before you type?

Finsfan79
10-19-2007, 11:06 AM
It's too bad the forum lost the 2005 runningbacks thread, I said Ronnie Brown would explode this year now that he had Cam Cameron as his head coach. He's a superb talent who now can fully flourish, and the team can still get better as they bring in more talent on the offense.

It is because Vernan Carey is turning into a monster at left Tackle. Last year Ronnie Ran good behind Vernan (13 games 1k yards good ypc when running behind right side). This year he is running behind the left side.

Carey is a Huge reason by Brown is having the year he is. Oline needs some credit really.

No QB or passing presence to stop the stacking of the box too.

Makes me pissed I skipped him for NE's RB whom has been useless for me in fantasy football this year :(

portermvp84
10-20-2007, 03:41 AM
I don't understand what the problem is with Steven Jackson. I don't know if injuries play into it or bad blocking by the line. He really needs to step it up and get a win.

Addict
10-20-2007, 09:14 AM
I don't understand what the problem is with Steven Jackson. I don't know if injuries play into it or bad blocking by the line. He really needs to step it up and get a win.

the rams line is killing him right now. I feel sorry for the guy since he claimed 2500 yds this year... that makes it kinda ironic.

619
10-20-2007, 09:40 AM
I don't understand what the problem is with Steven Jackson. I don't know if injuries play into it or bad blocking by the line. He really needs to step it up and get a win.

the rams o-line is playing with only one remaining opening day starter

nhlkdog411
10-20-2007, 09:51 AM
i'd still say something's wrong with him, brian leonard is outproducing him as the starter right now, and while i think leonard certainly has the tools to be a very good back in the league he still is a rookie not named adrian peterson.

Geo
10-20-2007, 10:15 AM
Jackson's injured, that is what is wrong with him. When he gets healthy enough to play, he'll play.

:confused:

I'm glad someone brought up Jackson (yes he's an elite back): I've been wondering, isn't he only signed through 2008? I think he is, as a 2004 1st round pick.