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dre1614
02-05-2007, 09:28 PM
First post your top 5 FAVORITE QB's

Then post your top 5, who you thought were the best.

Favorite

1) Staubach
2) Favre
3) Moon
4) Elway
5) Aikman

The Best

1) Montana
2) Staubach
3) Marino
4) Starr
5) Unitas

someone447
02-05-2007, 09:56 PM
First post your top 5 FAVORITE QB's

Then post your top 5, who you thought were the best.

Favorite

1) Staubach
2) Favre
3) Moon
4) Elway
5) Aikman

The Best

1) Montana
2) Staubach
3) Marino
4) Starr
5) Unitas

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Staubach and Starr should not be anywhere near a top 5 list, Staubach MAYBE top 10. Bart Starr wouldn't even say Bart Starr was better than Brett Favre.

1)Montana
2)Unitas
3-5 are interchangeable)Favre, Elway, Marino

My favorite:
1)Favre
2)Unitas
3)Montana
4)Marino
5)Elway

dre1614
02-05-2007, 10:00 PM
First post your top 5 FAVORITE QB's

Then post your top 5, who you thought were the best.

Favorite

1) Staubach
2) Favre
3) Moon
4) Elway
5) Aikman

The Best

1) Montana
2) Staubach
3) Marino
4) Starr
5) Unitas

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Staubach and Starr should not be anywhere near a top 5 list, Staubach MAYBE top 10. Bart Starr wouldn't even say Bart Starr was better than Brett Favre.

1)Montana
2)Unitas
3-5 are interchangeable)Favre, Elway, Marino

My favorite:
1)Favre
2)Unitas
3)Montana
4)Marino
5)Elway

Don't f****** tell me what my opinion is.

There is no right answer

bearsfan_51
02-05-2007, 10:04 PM
Favorite 5

1)Steve Young
2)Bernie Kosar (how can anyone not love Bernie?)
3)Donovan McNabb
4)John Elway
5)Charlie Frye

Best 5

1)Rex Grossman
2)Everyone else

Windy
02-05-2007, 10:06 PM
troy aikman
steve young
lou pinella

someone447
02-05-2007, 10:06 PM
I didn't say what YOUR opinion was, I just told you your opinion was wrong. Especially about Bart Starr, he in no way compares to any of the QBs I listed. That is like saying Joe Namath is top 5. Starr was a game manager, game managers aren't top 5 qbs.

Just look at the stats for both Favre and Starr. Look at the players around each of them. Favre has never had a HOFer on offense, yet he is about to break all of Marino's records.

Staubach doesn't compare to Favre or Elway. Both Favre and Elway carried their teams with almost no GREAT players on either team(they each had the Sharpe brothers, the only players on either offense I would consider great)

miamichamp_305
02-05-2007, 10:06 PM
Favorite 5
1.Dan Marino
2.Steve Young
3.Johny Unitas
4.Peyton Manning
5.Troy Aikman

Top 5
1.Montana (I hate to say it)
2.Unitas
3.Marino
4.Elway
5.Ryan Leaf

someone447
02-05-2007, 10:07 PM
Best 5

1)Rex Grossman
2)Everyone else

:-D

KCJ58
02-05-2007, 10:08 PM
1. Otto Graham
2. Dan Marino
3. John Elway
4. Brett Favre
5. Peyton Manning

Gribble
02-05-2007, 10:10 PM
1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Roger Staubach
4. Terry Bradshaw
5. Johnny Unitas

49ersfan_87
02-05-2007, 10:10 PM
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Honorable mentions- Mark Brunell (with jaguars) Kordell Stewart (with steelers) Randall Cunningham (with vikings)

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.

someone447
02-05-2007, 10:11 PM
Oooh, I completely forgot about Otto Graham, but people like him are a big reason I think it is really unfair to compare players(especially qbs) from different eras. I liked what SI did a few years ago. Compare QBs pre-West Coast Offense to QBs post West Coast offense.

sweetness34
02-05-2007, 10:12 PM
Favorite 5

1)Steve Young
2)Bernie Kosar (how can anyone not love Bernie?)
3)Donovan McNabb
4)John Elway
5)Charlie Frye

Best 5

1)Rex Grossman
2)Everyone else

Nice. :lol:

I'll just go top 5 here in no specific order for IMO the best QB's...

1) John Elway
2) Dan Marino
3) Joe Montana
4) Johnny Unitas
5) Peyton Manning (and yes I'll get ridiculed for this but it's my opinion)

Favorite: (mine will be more recent)

1) Tom Brady
2) Brett Favre (just for how he played the game, him being a Packer has no bearing on that)
3) Peyton Manning
4) Jim McMahon
5) Joe Montana

If someone wants me to explain Manning I will, but for now I'll just leave it.

bigmac076
02-05-2007, 10:15 PM
I dont really have 5 "favorite QBs" persay. So heres my 5 favorite players of all time and the 5 best QBs.

Favorite Players:
1. Walter Payton "Sweetness"
2. Emmitt Smith "Catch 22"
3. Jack Lambert "Count Dracula In Cleats"
4. Jim Brown "The Great"
5. Gale Sayers "The Kansas Comet"

5 Best QBs:
1. John Elway
2. Johnny Unitas
3. Joe Montana
4. Dan Marino
5. Brett Favre

sweetness34
02-05-2007, 10:16 PM
I dont really have 5 "favorite QBs" persay. So heres my 5 favorite players of all time and the 5 best QBs.

Favorite Players:
1. Walter Payton "Sweetness"
2. Emmitt Smith "Catch 22"
3. Jack Lambert "Count Dracula In Cleats"
4. Jim Brown "The Great"
5. Gale Sayers "The Kansas Comet"

5 Best QBs:
1. John Elway
2. Johnny Unitas
3. Joe Montana
4. Dan Marino
5. Brett Favre

I love you! :D

someone447
02-05-2007, 10:17 PM
I debated putting Manning on mine, and I dont particularly like him. I think when all is said and done, he will be THE best ever. But I think I want to wait a few more years before I put him on a list.

sweetness34
02-05-2007, 10:18 PM
I debated putting Manning on mine, and I dont particularly like him. I think when all is said and done, he will be THE best ever. But I think I want to wait a few more years before I put him on a list.

Which is understandable, but I'm predicting the future kinda on my pick. Because I don't see his play dropping off for many more a year. He may not get better but he'll still play at a very high level. That and he's on pace to shatter a bunch of QB records I believe.

I guerantee I'll have to explain it but I'm more than willing to do so.

02-05-2007, 10:20 PM
1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Marino
4. Young
5. Favre

Gribble
02-05-2007, 10:22 PM
Favre isn't getting a ton of love on here. Just an observation.

someone447
02-05-2007, 10:22 PM
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.

Bradshaw shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with those guys.

dre1614
02-05-2007, 10:23 PM
I didn't say what YOUR opinion was, I just told you your opinion was wrong. Especially about Bart Starr, he in no way compares to any of the QBs I listed. That is like saying Joe Namath is top 5. Starr was a game manager, game managers aren't top 5 qbs.

Just look at the stats for both Favre and Starr. Look at the players around each of them. Favre has never had a HOFer on offense, yet he is about to break all of Marino's records.

Staubach doesn't compare to Favre or Elway. Both Favre and Elway carried their teams with almost no GREAT players on either team(they each had the Sharpe brothers, the only players on either offense I would consider great)

an opinion is neither wrong or right.

49ersfan_87
02-05-2007, 10:24 PM
Favre isn't getting a ton of love on here. Just an observation.

Nobody views him as top 5 except packer fans. For the most part anyways.

bearsfan_51
02-05-2007, 10:24 PM
I didn't say what YOUR opinion was, I just told you your opinion was wrong. Especially about Bart Starr, he in no way compares to any of the QBs I listed. That is like saying Joe Namath is top 5. Starr was a game manager, game managers aren't top 5 qbs.

Just look at the stats for both Favre and Starr. Look at the players around each of them. Favre has never had a HOFer on offense, yet he is about to break all of Marino's records.

Staubach doesn't compare to Favre or Elway. Both Favre and Elway carried their teams with almost no GREAT players on either team(they each had the Sharpe brothers, the only players on either offense I would consider great)

an opinion is neither wrong or right.
Sometimes it is. Napoleon thought it would be a good idea to invade Russia. He was wrong.

Gribble
02-05-2007, 10:24 PM
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.

Bradshaw shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with those guys.

Well, he won 4 Super Bowls.

bearsfan_51
02-05-2007, 10:24 PM
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.

Bradshaw shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with those guys.
While I agree, a lot of people do.

bearsfan_51
02-05-2007, 10:26 PM
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.

Bradshaw shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with those guys.

Well, he won 4 Super Bowls.
So did every other player on the Steelers, are they all top 5 at their position too?

Quarterbacks get way too much credit/blame. Bradshaw wasn't very good.

Conversely, Barry Sanders never won anything important, is he not a top 5 back? It's a double standard.

someone447
02-05-2007, 10:27 PM
The vast majority of people that do see his super bowl wins and nothing else. Just like when people say Namath is one of the greatest QBs of all time(I don't think he should even be in the HOF), it is only because of his guarantee. I wouldn't have Bradshaw even in the top 20 all time qbs.

bigmac076
02-05-2007, 10:27 PM
Favre isn't getting a ton of love on here. Just an observation.

Nobody views him as top 5 except packer fans. For the most part anyways.

Hes on mine guy, and Im a Cowboys fan.

Gribble
02-05-2007, 10:29 PM
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.

Bradshaw shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with those guys.

Well, he won 4 Super Bowls.
So did every other player on the Steelers, are they all top 5 at their position too?

Quarterbacks get way too much credit/blame. Bradshaw wasn't very good.

Conversely, Barry Sanders never won anything important, is he not a top 5 back? It's a double standard.

I'm just stating the fact that he won those games. Although he wasn't that great the wins really propel him to that level.

bigmac076
02-05-2007, 10:30 PM
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.

Bradshaw shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with those guys.

Well, he won 4 Super Bowls.
Bradshaw was a good Quarterback. He wouldn't be in my Top 10 mind you. Oh and btw, The Steelers DEFENSE won 4 Super Bowls!

regoob2
02-05-2007, 10:31 PM
1. Montana
2. Manning (will be better then marino, plus has a SB)
3. Marino
4. Farve
5. Bradshaw( He has won 4 SB's hard not to put him in top 5, plus had Hall of Famers?

someone447
02-05-2007, 10:31 PM
I didn't say what YOUR opinion was, I just told you your opinion was wrong. Especially about Bart Starr, he in no way compares to any of the QBs I listed. That is like saying Joe Namath is top 5. Starr was a game manager, game managers aren't top 5 qbs.

Just look at the stats for both Favre and Starr. Look at the players around each of them. Favre has never had a HOFer on offense, yet he is about to break all of Marino's records.

Staubach doesn't compare to Favre or Elway. Both Favre and Elway carried their teams with almost no GREAT players on either team(they each had the Sharpe brothers, the only players on either offense I would consider great)

an opinion is neither wrong or right.
Sometimes it is. Napoleon thought it would be a good idea to invade Russia. He was wrong.

:-D
Nobody views him as top 5 except packer fans. For the most part anyways.
Well, Packer fans and the guy in your avatar. Steve Young just said he was THE best QB of all time. Now I wouldn't go that far, but he is generally considered a top 5 QB, at the very least, on the bubble.

1. Montana
2. Manning (will be better then marino, plus has a SB)
3. Marino
4. Farve
5. Bradshaw( He has won 4 SB's hard not to put him in top 5, plus had Hall of Famers?

Elway has to be above Bradshaw, he singlehandedly led his team to 3 super bowls. You've heard the saying, you cant make chardonnay out of ****? Well, he did.

So how about Doug Williams, is he a very good QB, he won a super bowl, one that he actually had a huge effect on. What about Trent Dilfer? The Steel Curtain won those super bowls. Winning Super Bowls does not a good QB make. Bart Starr won 3 straight NFL championships, two of them super bowls, but he doesn't deserve to be up there either.

RaiderNation
02-05-2007, 10:34 PM
Montana
Manning
marino
elway
farve

B-Dawk
02-05-2007, 10:36 PM
1. Unitas
2. Elway
3. Marino
4. Montana
5. Manning

someone447
02-05-2007, 10:36 PM
an opinion is neither wrong or right.

Just a quick question, how old are you? I would say a freshman in high school or younger. You will learn quick that opinions can be wrong. If you are older than that, you must be quite sheltered.

YAYareaRB
02-05-2007, 10:36 PM
Favorite 5:

1) Joe Montana
2) Steve Young
3) Peyton Manning
4) Warren Moon
5) Jim McMahon - 1 Word: SWAG

Top 5 IMO:

1) Joe Montana
2) Dan Marino
3) John Elway
4) Peyton Manning
5) Steve Young

49ersfan_87
02-05-2007, 10:37 PM
I didn't say what YOUR opinion was, I just told you your opinion was wrong. Especially about Bart Starr, he in no way compares to any of the QBs I listed. That is like saying Joe Namath is top 5. Starr was a game manager, game managers aren't top 5 qbs.

Just look at the stats for both Favre and Starr. Look at the players around each of them. Favre has never had a HOFer on offense, yet he is about to break all of Marino's records.

Staubach doesn't compare to Favre or Elway. Both Favre and Elway carried their teams with almost no GREAT players on either team(they each had the Sharpe brothers, the only players on either offense I would consider great)

an opinion is neither wrong or right.
Sometimes it is. Napoleon thought it would be a good idea to invade Russia. He was wrong.

:-D
Nobody views him as top 5 except packer fans. For the most part anyways.
Well, Packer fans and the guy in your avatar. Steve Young just said he was THE best QB of all time. Now I wouldn't go that far, but he is generally considered a top 5 QB, at the very least, on the bubble.

1. Montana
2. Manning (will be better then marino, plus has a SB)
3. Marino
4. Farve
5. Bradshaw( He has won 4 SB's hard not to put him in top 5, plus had Hall of Famers?

Elway has to be above Bradshaw, he singlehandedly led his team to 3 super bowls. You've heard the saying, you cant make chardonnay out of ***********? Well, he did.

So how about Doug Williams, is he a very good QB, he won a super bowl, one that he actually had a huge effect on. What about Trent Dilfer? The Steel Curtain won those super bowls. Winning Super Bowls does not a good QB make. Bart Starr won 3 straight NFL championships, two of them super bowls, but he doesn't deserve to be up there either.

Well, he could be top 5. He is top 10 on my list. Like i said, after 3, it gets jumbled.

bigmac076
02-05-2007, 10:37 PM
1. Montana
2. Manning (will be better then marino, plus has a SB)
3. Marino
4. Farve
5. Bradshaw( He has won 4 SB's hard not to put him in top 5, plus had Hall of Famers?

Johnny Unitas, John Elway, Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, Tom Brady, Steve Young, Roger Staubach>Terry Bradshaw

YAYareaRB
02-05-2007, 10:40 PM
An old favorite of mine is Sammy Baugh. One of the first scrambling QBs in football. Archie Manning aswell.

dre1614
02-05-2007, 10:41 PM
an opinion is neither wrong or right.

Just a quick question, how old are you? I would say a freshman in high school or younger. You will learn quick that opinions can be wrong. If you are older than that, you must be quite sheltered.

1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Opinions are not wrong, especially with regards to top 5 qb's.
everybody has an opinion it it, and most people will have different qb's

Namy
02-05-2007, 10:42 PM
Top 5:

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Brett Favre
4. Dan Marino
5. Johnny Unitas

(not counting active players... Manning probably would crack this list when it's all said and done... maybe even Brady as well).

someone447
02-05-2007, 10:47 PM
1. Montana
2. Manning (will be better then marino, plus has a SB)
3. Marino
4. Farve
5. Bradshaw( He has won 4 SB's hard not to put him in top 5, plus had Hall of Famers?

Johnny Unitas, John Elway, Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, Tom Brady, Steve Young, Roger Staubach>Terry Bradshaw

Warren Moon, Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, Bobby Layne, Y.A. Tittle, Norm Van Brocklin, and I am sure there a few more that I am missing. http://www.listology.com/content_show.cfm/content_id.16816/Sports That might be the single worst list of top QBs I have ever seen.

Staubach12
02-05-2007, 10:50 PM
1. John Elway
2. Joe Montana
3. Dan Marino
4. Brett Favre
5. Peyton Manning
6. Steve Young
7. Johnny Unitas
8. Roger Staubach
9. Troy Aikman
10. Dan Fouts

I did 10...

someone447
02-05-2007, 10:51 PM
Top 5:

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Brett Favre
4. Dan Marino
5. Johnny Unitas

(not counting active players... Manning probably would crack this list when it's all said and done... maybe even Brady as well).

Favre is active, but I know what you mean. Players that still have quite a few years left. You see manning the same way that I do.

1. John Elway
2. Joe Montana
3. Dan Marino
4. Brett Favre
5. Peyton Manning
6. Steve Young
7. Johnny Unitas
8. Roger Staubach
9. Troy Aikman
10. Dan Fouts
Aikman is just like Bradshaw, he had great players surrounding him. They both were great QBs, but neither deserve to be in a greatest QB ever discussion.

Staubach12
02-05-2007, 10:51 PM
1. Montana
2. Manning (will be better then marino, plus has a SB)
3. Marino
4. Farve
5. Bradshaw( He has won 4 SB's hard not to put him in top 5, plus had Hall of Famers?

Johnny Unitas, John Elway, Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, Tom Brady, Steve Young, Roger Staubach>Terry Bradshaw

Warren Moon, Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, Bobby Layne, Y.A. Tittle, Norm Van Brocklin, and I am sure there a few more that I am missing. http://www.listology.com/content_show.cfm/content_id.16816/Sports That might be the single worst list of top QBs I have ever seen.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Mike Vick is ON THE LIST!!!!!!!

jblaze66
02-05-2007, 11:00 PM
1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Unitas (ahead of his time)
4. Marino
5. Favre

Big_Brother
02-05-2007, 11:14 PM
Favorite 5:
Favre
Young
Starr
Montana
Moon

Best 5:
Montana
Favre
Elway
Marino
Young

I kept off players from older generations (Unitas would have made it etc) and Players whose careers are still young (Peyton, Brady, etc)

02-05-2007, 11:17 PM
Top 10 Over the last 25 years

1-John Elway
2-Dan Marino
3-Brett Favre
4-Joe Montana
5-Peyton Manning
6-Troy Aikman
7-Tom Brady
8-Steve Young
9-Kurt Warner
10-Jim Kelly

4pAc
02-05-2007, 11:18 PM
Favre

and that's about it :wink:

sweetness34
02-05-2007, 11:28 PM
Top 10 Over the last 25 years

1-John Elway
2-Dan Marino
3-Brett Favre
4-Joe Montana
5-Peyton Manning
6-Troy Aikman
7-Tom Brady
8-Jim Kelly
9-Steve Young
10-Jim Kelly

Might want to fix that.

sodar21
02-05-2007, 11:31 PM
1. Steve Young
2. Dan Marino
3. Joe Montana
4. Johnny Unitas
5. John Elway

02-05-2007, 11:40 PM
Might want to fix that.

Done and Done ...thx

GB12
02-05-2007, 11:45 PM
Peyton will be #1 when he is done, but I won't count him yet.

1.Montana
2.Marino
3.Elway
4.Favre
5.Unitas

someone447
02-05-2007, 11:47 PM
Like I said, you will be in for a rude awakening when ou realize that opinions are wrong.

Tubby
02-05-2007, 11:49 PM
Otto Graham
Isaiah Stanback
Josh Brown
Joe Montana
Dan Marino
John Elway
Peyton Manning

02-05-2007, 11:56 PM
I'd be willing to bet $100 bucks that the % of people (in this room who voted him as a top 5 QB of all time) who actually watched Johnny Unitas play a game (in it's entirety , while the game was being played) is under 5%.

Why not just include Jesus and Moses in the top 5 as well

njx9
02-05-2007, 11:56 PM
i don't know how anyoen can make a legitimate top 5 list anymore. there are just too many guys bunched at the top. imo, you've got elway, montana and unitas in some order at the top. but then marino's in there someplace, right? i mean, super bowls are huge, but they shouldn't be the only thing that matters. favre's there, but are we talking retired guys only? if not, should we assume favre breaks the records this year (i know how clsoe he is)? what do you do with brady and manning, who shouldn't be anywhere near a top five list yet, but who absolutely will be by the time they retire. for that matter, what happens when they DO retire? who are they honestly better than? what to you do with the old guys like graham and baugh? what do you do with young?

it just seems like you're going to have a lot of a's and b's in any top five list, as i just don't see any realistic way to separate some of those guys.

Big_Brother
02-06-2007, 12:02 AM
TOP 5 QBS OF ALL TIME:
FAVRE
GOD
JESUS
MOSES
UNITAS

OH WAIT I PUT FAVRE IN FOR THE TOP 3 OMGZ!!@3

/crazyrandompackerfan off

njx9
02-06-2007, 12:08 AM
and just because it will annoy someone, assuming that favre has an average year this year and then retires:

1a. John Elway
1b. Brett Favre
2. Montana
3. Unitas
4. Marino
5. (pick your own next 5 second tier guys)

SuperMcGee
02-06-2007, 12:23 AM
and just because it will annoy someone, assuming that favre has an average year this year and then retires:

1a. John Elway
1b. Brett Favre
2. Montana
3. Unitas
4. Marino
5. (pick your own next 5 second tier guys)

I look at those 5 and feel that I need to get Steve Young in there also. I don't know a lot about Graham and Manning will surely be up around them when he's done. Those seem to be the top 8

njx9
02-06-2007, 12:27 AM
and just because it will annoy someone, assuming that favre has an average year this year and then retires:

1a. John Elway
1b. Brett Favre
2. Montana
3. Unitas
4. Marino
5. (pick your own next 5 second tier guys)

I look at those 5 and feel that I need to get Steve Young in there also. I don't know a lot about Graham and Manning will surely be up around them when he's done. Those seem to be the top 8

steve young's part of the next tier for me. he was GREAT, but those guys are/were amazing. i have no doubt manning will be someone's b eventually, but i just can't justify putting him up there. i mean, say he pulled a tiki tomorrow, he'd be a great all-time qb and might still get HOF consdieration, but you wouldn't ever really mention him as top five of all time.

someone447
02-06-2007, 12:28 AM
and just because it will annoy someone, assuming that favre has an average year this year and then retires:

1a. John Elway
1b. Brett Favre
2. Montana
3. Unitas
4. Marino
5. (pick your own next 5 second tier guys)

Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)

Post:
1. Montana
2-4. Elway, Favre, Marino
5. Young

Pre:
1.Unitas
2.Baugh
3.Tarkenton
4.Graham
5. Staubach

njx9
02-06-2007, 12:33 AM
Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)


i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.

someone447
02-06-2007, 12:39 AM
Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)


i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.

:-D, that was against the Lions in the first round of the playoffs. Elway definitely could make a throw like that. I think his arm may have even been stronger than Favre's ever was.

thetedginnshow
02-06-2007, 01:19 AM
Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)


i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.

Vick could probably make that throw as well. Not that I wouldn't say he's potentially top 3 all-time, but that gives no indication of whether or not he was greater than all of those other guys, unless you were recalling a memory in a misleading train of thought.

yourfavestoner
02-06-2007, 01:27 AM
1. Johnny Unitas
2. Joe Montana
3. Dan Marino
4. John Elway
5. Otto Graham

someone447
02-06-2007, 01:39 AM
Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)


i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.

Vick could probably make that throw as well. Not that I wouldn't say he's potentially top 3 all-time, but that gives no indication of whether or not he was greater than all of those other guys, unless you were recalling a memory in a misleading train of thought.

Vick has the arm strength to do it, but not the accuracy to go along. He wasn't saying that that is the reason favre is a top QB, just that it is his iconic memory of him.

Addict
02-06-2007, 02:46 AM
Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)


i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.

Vick could probably make that throw as well. Not that I wouldn't say he's potentially top 3 all-time, but that gives no indication of whether or not he was greater than all of those other guys, unless you were recalling a memory in a misleading train of thought.

Vick has the arm strength to do it, but not the accuracy to go along. He wasn't saying that that is the reason favre is a top QB, just that it is his iconic memory of him.

Even if vick could get the pass off with good accuracy, his receivers would probably drop it. But since that's obviously not the issue here, I'd just wanna say that it sounds like a great play he made there.

Oh and that list is hilarious.

02-06-2007, 05:45 AM
Favorite 5:
1. Antwaan Randle El
2. Peyton Manning
3. Johnny Unitas
4. Steve Young
5. Terry Bradshaw

Best 5 (as of now):
1. Joe Montana
2. Johnny Unitas
3. John Elway
4. Dan Marino
5. Steve Young

njx9
02-06-2007, 08:24 AM
Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)


i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.

Vick could probably make that throw as well. Not that I wouldn't say he's potentially top 3 all-time, but that gives no indication of whether or not he was greater than all of those other guys, unless you were recalling a memory in a misleading train of thought.

Vick has the arm strength to do it, but not the accuracy to go along. He wasn't saying that that is the reason favre is a top QB, just that it is his iconic memory of him.

exactly. for some reason, it stands out above almost every other memory by a long shot.

thetedginnshow
02-06-2007, 08:31 AM
Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)


i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.

Vick could probably make that throw as well. Not that I wouldn't say he's potentially top 3 all-time, but that gives no indication of whether or not he was greater than all of those other guys, unless you were recalling a memory in a misleading train of thought.

Vick has the arm strength to do it, but not the accuracy to go along. He wasn't saying that that is the reason favre is a top QB, just that it is his iconic memory of him.

exactly. for some reason, it stands out above almost every other memory by a long shot.

Just seeing if that could get clarified. I will say that his performance on MNF after his dad passed away stands far above any other memory I have of him.

njx9
02-06-2007, 08:35 AM
that's probably my #2, although watching him get back in warren sapp's face when sapp was jawing at him is right there with it. i think that was the moment i really started to like the guy. speaking of favre-love-fests.

Finsfan79
02-06-2007, 08:44 AM
Peyton will be #1 when he is done, but I won't count him yet.

1.Montana
2.Marino
3.Elway
4.Favre
5.Unitas

Good list, hard to argue with that one.

bigbluedefense
02-06-2007, 08:45 AM
1. Dylan
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
5. Dylan

Cause he spit hot fire....

But seriously, top 5

1. Unitas
2. Montana
3. Elway
4. Marino
5. Brady (im projecting here)

To me, there are only 2 players in NFL history that changed the game at a magnitude that will never be reached by anyone else. Thats Lawrence Taylor on defense, and Johhny Unitas on offense. The man was so ahead of his time, its not even funny. Peyton Manning just recently broke his all time yardage record for the Colts, and remember, Unitas played in the 50s/60s! Totally different era, for him to play like a qb from the 80s during the 50s.....he was so ahead of his time. Changed the game. I like Montana better, but you gotta respect what Unitas did during his era. Unbelievable. Id give Tarkenton some love, but the man just choked in the SB too much.

As far as Brady goes, Im projecting here. He's this generations Montana. Everyone wants to kill him now that Peyton won a SB and Brady lost, but thats dumb, I can point out the 49-3 asswhoopin the Giants gave Montana, or the 15-13 boxing match with him, but that doesn't mean he stinks. He was amazing, and so is Brady. Brady does more with less than anybody.

someone447
02-06-2007, 09:04 AM
1. Dylan
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
5. Dylan

Cause he spit hot fire....

But seriously, top 5

1. Unitas
2. Montana
3. Elway
4. Marino
5. Brady (im projecting here)

To me, there are only 2 players in NFL history that changed the game at a magnitude that will never be reached by anyone else. Thats Lawrence Taylor on defense, and Johhny Unitas on offense. The man was so ahead of his time, its not even funny. Peyton Manning just recently broke his all time yardage record for the Colts, and remember, Unitas played in the 50s/60s! Totally different era, for him to play like a qb from the 80s during the 50s.....he was so ahead of his time. Changed the game. I like Montana better, but you gotta respect what Unitas did during his era. Unbelievable. Id give Tarkenton some love, but the man just choked in the SB too much.

As far as Brady goes, Im projecting here. He's this generations Montana. Everyone wants to kill him now that Peyton won a SB and Brady lost, but thats dumb, I can point out the 49-3 asswhoopin the Giants gave Montana, or the 15-13 boxing match with him, but that doesn't mean he stinks. He was amazing, and so is Brady. Brady does more with less than anybody.

Except Elway.

njx9
02-06-2007, 09:04 AM
Brady does more with less than anybody.

i still find that that's a garbage argument that's used FAR too often to really be meaningful anymore. this year he did more with nothing, and even then, "nothing" is qualified as "no WRs but a great running game and some pretty good TEs". it's like, people see one thing with a low talent level on the pats and instantly the team is bereft of talent. that's obvious crap.

frogstomp
02-06-2007, 09:07 AM
Brady does more with less than anybody.

i still find that that's a garbage argument that's used FAR too often to really be meaningful anymore. this year he did more with nothing, and even then, "nothing" is qualified as "no WRs but a great running game and some pretty good TEs". it's like, people see one thing with a low talent level on the pats and instantly the team is bereft of talent. that's obvious crap.

I would call it a solid running game, not a great one. A great running game needs a YPC average of at least 4.5, while Dillon was around 4.1, and Maroney around 4.3. It wasn't bad, but it was hardly great.

njx9
02-06-2007, 09:11 AM
Brady does more with less than anybody.

i still find that that's a garbage argument that's used FAR too often to really be meaningful anymore. this year he did more with nothing, and even then, "nothing" is qualified as "no WRs but a great running game and some pretty good TEs". it's like, people see one thing with a low talent level on the pats and instantly the team is bereft of talent. that's obvious crap.

I would call it a solid running game, not a great one. A great running game needs a YPC average of at least 4.5, while Dillon was around 4.1, and Maroney around 4.3. It wasn't bad, but it was hardly great.

if a running back had 1500 yards and 20 tds, he had a great season. i don't know why the standards are different just because they were splitting carries (this isn't LT and Turner, where LT still had the VAST majority of the carries).

bigbluedefense
02-06-2007, 09:12 AM
Brady does more with less than anybody.

i still find that that's a garbage argument that's used FAR too often to really be meaningful anymore. this year he did more with nothing, and even then, "nothing" is qualified as "no WRs but a great running game and some pretty good TEs". it's like, people see one thing with a low talent level on the pats and instantly the team is bereft of talent. that's obvious crap.

Well, his offensive line while blocking well, is not nearly as good as Brady makes it look. Brady is so good at creating time for himself, he barely gets sacked because of his release, and pocket presence.

As far as wideouts, he has nobody who can stretch the field, or catch the ball for that matter.

In terms of TEs, I honestly think his TEs are overrated. Ben Watson has not lived up to expectations, and was not entirely effective. Graham has solid hands, but you won't mistake him for Gates anytime soon.

As far as the run game is concerned, Dillen is done. He has a good back in Maroney, but Bellichick underutilized him by giving too many carries to Dillen.


There is plenty of talent on this team, I agree with you. But I think most of it is on the defensive side of the ball. The offense lives and dies with Brady. He has good TEs (not great but good) and a decent run game, but still, he does an amazing job. He was a defensive choke job away from winning another SB.

njx9
02-06-2007, 09:20 AM
i should qualify my original bit by saying i believe brady is 1a or 1b in current nfl quarterbacks. but i am really sick of people acting like brady does it all by himself and that, when he fails in the playoffs, it was lack of talent or execution by other folks, when for anyone else in the league, it was because the QB choked (like DMW was implying).

but more, i'm really sick of people acting like brady is the only talented player on the entire team. iirc, brady did not lead the patriots to the super bowl in 2002 (that was bledsoe). brady threw the last interception against indy (not reche). the patriots defense was not, in their three super bowl years, equivalent to whatever "product" detroit was putting on the field.

so while i think you're right that if brady is down, the offense stalls (see: new england vs. denver in the last 5 years), it's exceptionally dishonest (duplicitous, perhaps) to suggest that he is the only reason that team has ever done anything.

bigbluedefense
02-06-2007, 09:29 AM
i should qualify my original bit by saying i believe brady is 1a or 1b in current nfl quarterbacks. but i am really sick of people acting like brady does it all by himself and that, when he fails in the playoffs, it was lack of talent or execution by other folks, when for anyone else in the league, it was because the QB choked (like DMW was implying).

but more, i'm really sick of people acting like brady is the only talented player on the entire team. iirc, brady did not lead the patriots to the super bowl in 2002 (that was bledsoe). brady threw the last interception against indy (not reche). the patriots defense was not, in their three super bowl years, equivalent to whatever "product" detroit was putting on the field.

so while i think you're right that if brady is down, the offense stalls (see: new england vs. denver in the last 5 years), it's exceptionally dishonest (duplicitous, perhaps) to suggest that he is the only reason that team has ever done anything.

Oh of course. I agree with that. Brady doesn't win 3 SBs without some luck, a great defense, and for 1 year, a very solid run game. But at the same time, I think he's largely responsible for their offensive success. He's never had a true 1 receiver, and for his 2nd SB, had a mediocre run game. He's definately a leader, and has lead the team to victories, I know not all the time they were TDs, but who cares, he got them in scoring position.

No qb can do it by themself, Montana had Rice and Taylor, Elway did it when he got TD, etc. But I think out of the great QBs of the past 20 years, Brady has had more success with less offensive talent than any other qb. You can make an argument for Favre and Elway, but Elway didn't win a SB until he had Sharpe and TD and Rod Smith. Favre you could make an argument for.

Remember, Im projecting here. I don't think he's there yet, but I think he will be top 5 when its all said and done.

PackerFan20
02-06-2007, 10:36 AM
1)Unitas
2)Montana
3)Favre
4)Elway
5)Baugh

M.O.T.H.
02-06-2007, 10:53 AM
1. Peyton Manning
2.a) Dan Marino
2.b) Joe Montana
3. Bret Favre
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young

I've seen em' all and Peyton is the greatest I've ever seen.

As a football player Unitas was overrated imo, exceptional for his time but, he shouldn't be on this list. Still one of my old favs.

Nitschke-Hawk
02-06-2007, 11:08 AM
Favre isn't getting a ton of love on here. Just an observation.

Nobody views him as top 5 except packer fans. For the most part anyways.

I think it's because he won those MVP's and the Super Bowl a long time ago. People are thinking of Favre these last few years where he hasn't had a team around him that was as good as his best years and letting that diminish his legacy a little bit. All the other players in people's top 5's are retired for the most part so that makes them look at the career as a whole. For example, when people put Dan Marino in the top 5 they never thought of his final year. I guarantee if Favre just retired he'd be in more top 5's. I'm not saying the last few years have tarnished his legacy cause when you look at it in whole it's as impressive as anybody's, it's just that people don't see the "greatness" they saw years ago. I think in the end more people will realize that than they do right now, because in the back of their mind there's retirement talk every year, team isn't successful as in years past, and some people get tired of hearing about him. I'm not saying they're taking this into account intentionally when ranking him, just indirectly and unintentionally.

draftguru151
02-06-2007, 11:43 AM
1. John Elway
2. Dan Marino
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Peyton Manning

02-06-2007, 12:56 PM
Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)


i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.

:-D, that was against the Lions in the first round of the playoffs. Elway definitely could make a throw like that. I think his arm may have even been stronger than Favre's ever was.

It was a 40 yard td pass and somehow Sterling Sharpe was wide open in the end zone. How do you let Sterling Sharpe wide open in the endzone. That td just baffles me. It was a great game though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_playoffs,_1993-94#NFC:_Green_Bay_Packers_28.2C_Detroit_Lions_24

yourfavestoner
02-06-2007, 01:14 PM
1. Dylan
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
5. Dylan

Cause he spit hot fire....

But seriously, top 5

1. Unitas
2. Montana
3. Elway
4. Marino
5. Brady (im projecting here)

To me, there are only 2 players in NFL history that changed the game at a magnitude that will never be reached by anyone else. Thats Lawrence Taylor on defense, and Johhny Unitas on offense. The man was so ahead of his time, its not even funny. Peyton Manning just recently broke his all time yardage record for the Colts, and remember, Unitas played in the 50s/60s! Totally different era, for him to play like a qb from the 80s during the 50s.....he was so ahead of his time. Changed the game. I like Montana better, but you gotta respect what Unitas did during his era. Unbelievable. Id give Tarkenton some love, but the man just choked in the SB too much.

As far as Brady goes, Im projecting here. He's this generations Montana. Everyone wants to kill him now that Peyton won a SB and Brady lost, but thats dumb, I can point out the 49-3 asswhoopin the Giants gave Montana, or the 15-13 boxing match with him, but that doesn't mean he stinks. He was amazing, and so is Brady. Brady does more with less than anybody.

Plus, nobody will ever break Unitas' record of most consecutive games with a touchdown pass (47). I don't think anybody has ever come within ten games of it.

Consider that he's also sixth on the all-time touchdown pass list, even though, like you said, he played in an era with very little passing and a twelve or fourteen game season. He was an revolutionary player, and played far before his time. His greatest asset, though, was how tough of an SOB he was.

njx9
02-06-2007, 01:17 PM
1. Dylan
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
5. Dylan

Cause he spit hot fire....

But seriously, top 5

1. Unitas
2. Montana
3. Elway
4. Marino
5. Brady (im projecting here)

To me, there are only 2 players in NFL history that changed the game at a magnitude that will never be reached by anyone else. Thats Lawrence Taylor on defense, and Johhny Unitas on offense. The man was so ahead of his time, its not even funny. Peyton Manning just recently broke his all time yardage record for the Colts, and remember, Unitas played in the 50s/60s! Totally different era, for him to play like a qb from the 80s during the 50s.....he was so ahead of his time. Changed the game. I like Montana better, but you gotta respect what Unitas did during his era. Unbelievable. Id give Tarkenton some love, but the man just choked in the SB too much.

As far as Brady goes, Im projecting here. He's this generations Montana. Everyone wants to kill him now that Peyton won a SB and Brady lost, but thats dumb, I can point out the 49-3 asswhoopin the Giants gave Montana, or the 15-13 boxing match with him, but that doesn't mean he stinks. He was amazing, and so is Brady. Brady does more with less than anybody.

Plus, nobody will ever break Unitas' record of most consecutive games with a touchdown pass (47). I don't think anybody has ever come within ten games of it.

Consider that he's also sixth on the all-time touchdown pass list, even though, like you said, he played in an era with very little passing and a twelve or fourteen game season. He was an revolutionary player, and played far before his time. His greatest asset, though, was how tough of an SOB he was.

now that two people have said the same thing: what cornerbacks (comparable in *coverage* to those playing today) did unitas play against?

02-06-2007, 01:50 PM
Favre isn't getting a ton of love on here. Just an observation.

Nobody views him as top 5 except packer fans. For the most part anyways.

I think it's because he won those MVP's and the Super Bowl a long time ago. People are thinking of Favre these last few years where he hasn't had a team around him that was as good as his best years and letting that diminish his legacy a little bit. All the other players in people's top 5's are retired for the most part so that makes them look at the career as a whole. For example, when people put Dan Marino in the top 5 they never thought of his final year. I guarantee if Favre just retired he'd be in more top 5's. I'm not saying the last few years have tarnished his legacy cause when you look at it in whole it's as impressive as anybody's, it's just that people don't see the "greatness" they saw years ago. I think in the end more people will realize that than they do right now, because in the back of their mind there's retirement talk every year, team isn't successful as in years past, and some people get tired of hearing about him. I'm not saying they're taking this into account intentionally when ranking him, just indirectly and unintentionally. here's what I get out of this..."Packer fans (and Favre) are living in the past" :lol:
Probably a reason they want to trade for Moss :lol:

someone447
02-06-2007, 02:02 PM
Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)


i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.

:-D, that was against the Lions in the first round of the playoffs. Elway definitely could make a throw like that. I think his arm may have even been stronger than Favre's ever was.

It was a 40 yard td pass and somehow Sterling Sharpe was wide open in the end zone. How do you let Sterling Sharpe wide open in the endzone. That td just baffles me. It was a great game though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_playoffs,_1993-94#NFC:_Green_Bay_Packers_28.2C_Detroit_Lions_24

He still threw it 60 yards on a rope. He rolled out and launched it to the back of the endzone.

No one is saying that he is as good of a QB as he was in 96. But he is still an above average starting QB in the NFL.

Chio151
02-06-2007, 02:02 PM
I think Elway and Favre have the two strongest arms in the history of the league and would pay money to see both of them in their prime in a throwing contest.

NFLBOY
02-06-2007, 02:05 PM
I have to break it down in decades.

The 60's: Bart Starr. I wasn't old enough to watch games, but he is the obvious choice for me.

The 70's: Terry Bradshaw. Part of a team that won 4 superbowls and was an incredible leader. All Steelers players said he was the key to thier championships. Also called all his own plays. He was the a qb who knew when and what play to call. Even to this day most qb's still do not have that ability.

2: Fran Tarkenton. Helped lead his team to 3 superbowls and was an incredible scrambler that also passed for alot of yards.

3: Bob Griese. Helped lead his team to back to back superbowl wins, was part of the perfect season and was also a good consistent passer.

4: Roger Staubach. Again a superbowl winner and he also was a very good leader. Didn't have many passing yards but also was a great scrambler.

5: Ken Stabler. Another guy who doesn't get enough credit. Nicknamed the snake for his elusiveness and was a very good passer also. Was able to help Oakland always be a contender.

In the 80's: Dan Marino. Didn't have superbowl wins, but basically holds every record without having a running game that would get a 1000 yards or a defense.

2: Joe Montana: Obvious why he is on the list. Won 4 superbowls and didn't throw int's in postseason play. Nuff said.

3: Jim Plunkett: Helped the Riders win 2 superbowls and was a great team leader. Made very good decisions and also was very smart.

4: Phil Simms: Helped lead the Giants to 2 superbowl wins evn though he was hurt for the second superbowl, he still led the team all year to the playoffs. Made good decisions, and if you watched him play, you know he was good.

5: Dan Fouts: Didn't have much of a defense around him and his running game was pretty good in certain seasons, but this guy was a very accurate passer and always had San Diego running for the playoffs. Very smart leader and also threw for over 40,000 yards.

In the 90's: Jim Kelly. He didn't win a superbowl, but helped lead his team to 4 straight appearences. Was a very accurate passer and very smart in the pocket.

2: Troy Aikman: Helped his team win 3 superbowls and also was a very good leader. Alot like Staubach, didn't have alot of passing yards, but made few mistakes and knew how to help keep some egos in check.

3: Brett Favre: Helped his team win a superbowl and get another visit to the game. Also he is a throwback to the tough mentality. Everyone pretty much knows what this guy brings every week. He does make alot of mistakes resulting in turnovers, hence the reason to be 3 on my list.

4: Dan Marino: Makes the list twice. By this time the marks brothers were gone, still had no running game, defense still choked every year and all he did was still put up the same consistent numbers. Don't really recall who his wideouts were for most of the decade either.

5: John Elway: I think the 90's is when he actually started to become a good qb. He helped lead his team in the 80's, but they drafted a guy in Maddox to take his place cause he really wasn't much more than an average qb. In the 90's his decision making became much better and with the help of Terrel Davis and a good defense was able to help his team win 2 superbowls.

In the current decade, the qbs that standout are: Tom Brady. The guy has helped his team win 3 superbowls and he really doesn't make many mistakes. Very consistent passer and is calm when the game is coming down to the wire.

2: Peyton Manning. Sure this guy has all the weapons around him, but so does every great qb. He makes great decisions and like Bradshaw has the ability to call his own plays. Also winning the superbowl this past year makes it look all the better.

As for the rest of the list, Kinda hard to say right now. Alot of up and comers with the likes of, Big Ben, Rivers, Carson Palmer, Drew Brees. etc. It's to hard to say who was the best, cause the game seems to change every decade. Also some guys were better leaders than others and some maybe had more talent, but there is alot more to being a great qb than looking at superbowl wins or probowl visits. Alot of hall of famers didn't go to alot of probowls and alot of probowlers aren't going to the Hall Of fame either.

njx9
02-06-2007, 02:09 PM
fwiw - denver drafted maddox because dan reeves is the worst personnel evaluator in the history of the league, not because of anything with elway (besides maybe age).

NFLBOY
02-06-2007, 02:12 PM
Not true. I was living in Denver at the time and that was all the talk. There was even talk of trading him.

tom
02-06-2007, 02:16 PM
Best QB's of all time...

1) Terry Bradshaw

2) Ben Roethlisberger

3) Neil O'donnell

4) Kordell Stewart

5) Tommy Maddox

someone447
02-06-2007, 02:17 PM
Terry Bradshaw is too high, he was a very good QB, but I wouldn't say great.

Jim Plunkett is too high, he shouldn't be on a top 5 list for the 80s, he was hardly able to even keep a starting job.

Troy Aikman didnt do anything that 20-30 other QBs in the 90s couldnt have done.

Elway deserves to be on both the 80s and 90s lists. How you don't have Favre as the QB of the 90s is beyond my comprehension. He had 3 straight MVPs and was an 8 time pro bowler. Like was said earlier in the thread, you are putting too much stock in these past 2 years. Ya, he always threw interceptions, but that was trying to make throws that no one else could possibly make, many of which he did.

You have put way too much stock into being on a good team.

njx9
02-06-2007, 02:19 PM
that's just not the case. any talk of trading him was because dan reeves was a moron, not because it was actually a likely scenario.

Maddox was drafted in 1992. Denver had just come off a 12-4 season (hence picking at #25) with gaston green as the leading rusher (yeah, who?! is the right question to ask) and mike young (see previous) as the leading receiver with a massive 44 catches. carl pickens, a highly rated receiver, was still on the board. reeves opted for maddox because he a) is mind-numbingly stupid b) wanted elway's heir on board c) was trying to push elway out of town. part of the repercussions were shanahan's dismissal from the team (as he had taken elway's side).

someone447
02-06-2007, 02:22 PM
Bart Starr can't be the number one QB for the 60s. You are forgetting about Johnny Unitas.

NFLBOY
02-06-2007, 02:24 PM
Terry Bradshaw is too high, he was a very good QB, but I wouldn't say great.

Jim Plunkett is too high, he shouldn't be on a top 5 list for the 80s, he was hardly able to even keep a starting job.

Troy Aikman didnt do anything that 20-30 other QBs in the 90s couldnt have done.

Elway deserves to be on both the 80s and 90s lists. How you don't have Favre as the QB of the 90s is beyond my comprehension. He had 3 straight MVPs and was an 8 time pro bowler. Like was said earlier in the thread, you are putting too much stock in these past 2 years. Ya, he always threw interceptions, but that was trying to make throws that no one else could possibly make, many of which he did.

You have put way too much stock into being on a good team. Do you know how to read? Farve is on my 90's list. Iv'e read most of your posts in this topic and I have to say that your not the brightest bulb in the light. You go on people you like not what they have done. I maybe wrong, but I would bet you didn't watch much football before 1999. After all this is only opinion and not fact.

Eaglez.Fan
02-06-2007, 02:25 PM
1. Moon
2. Montana
3. Elway
4. Marino
5. Peyton

NFLBOY
02-06-2007, 02:26 PM
Bart Starr can't be the number one QB for the 60s. You are forgetting about Johnny Unitas. Not really. Starr won alot of championships with his team. Like I said I wasn't around for the 60's so I can't comment on them. Starr was the first that came to my mind. Sure Unitas was great, but I can't put him on a list I really don't know much about before the 70's.

yourfavestoner
02-06-2007, 03:04 PM
now that two people have said the same thing: what cornerbacks (comparable in *coverage* to those playing today) did unitas play against?

He might not have played against corners with the coverage ability of those playing today, but keep in mind that he played in an era where the advantage was very much in favor of the defense.

There was no five yard chuck rule. Defensive backs could mug receivers up and down the field until the ball was thrown.

Offensive lineman could not use their hands to block. They had to block with their forearms and look like ******** chickens, because if they got hands on the defenders at all it would be a holding penalty, and holding was 15 yards in those days.

To add to the offensive line's woes, defensive players could legally use the "headslap" and barrage the offensive lineman's head while they could not use their hands to defend themselves at all.

There were absolutely no rules protecting the quarterback. Nothing. He was just as live as any other player on the field, if not more, because, as Joe Namath once said, the quarterback was "the trophy" and every defensive player on the field was doing his best to take the quarterback out of the game. Quarterbacks back then played with a level of toughness and were brutalized on a level that would be shocking to see in today's game.

njx9
02-06-2007, 03:12 PM
so what makes unitas so much better than, say, jurgenson (who between 1961 and 1970, a better passer than unitas was at any point in his career)?

someone447
02-06-2007, 03:39 PM
Johnny Unitas is widely considered the best qb of all time. I would definitely have Starr number 2, and I understand where you are coming from saying you can't put someone you haven't really seen play.

Troy Aikman SHOULD NOT have been a first ballot hall of famer. Don't get me wrong, I like Terry Bradshaw, I just don't think he was a great QB, and there are MANY others that will agree with me on that. He was very good, but not great.

Troy Aikman didn't do a whole lot. He had the all time leading rusher on his team, one of the best offensive lines in football history, a suffocating defense. Aikman was hardly more than along for the ride.

JIM PLUNKETT DIDN'T EVEN START FOR HALF OF HIS CAREER!! That one isn't even debatable.

And obviously YOU are the one who doesn't know how to read. I put THE QB of the 90's, meaning the top, the best, etc.

I go on not what they have done? Ok, here are my lists for each decade.


60's:Like you I haven't seen enough to make a top 5 list. But Johnny U has got to be number one. He was decades ahead of his time. I would like to say Starr is second, but I am not completely sure.

70s:
1. Roger Staubach: Great Scrambler and a pretty accurate passer
2. Fran Tarkenton: An all-around amazing QB, 4th all time in rush yards for a qb. Staubach gets the nod over Tarkenton because of Tarkentons abysmal play in the Super Bowls.
3. Terry Bradshaw: Yes he did win 4 super bowls, but he had perhaps the greatest team ever around him. The 70s Steelers had too many HOFers to count.
4. Bob Griese: for the reasons you mentioned.
5. Ken Stabler: for the reasons you mentioned.

80s
1. Montana: He was CLUTCH, if it was a big game, he was going to deliver. He executed the West Coast offense to perfection.
2. Dan Marino: As of now holds every major record, he had some very good receivers, but his most notable running back was Kareem Abdul-Jabar...
3. John Elway- He led the broncos to 3 super bowls in the 80s with no one else of any note. He made chardonnay out of **** with that team.
4. Dan Fouts: Led the "Air Coryell" offense that revolutionized the passing game. His Chargers were one of the most exciting teams in NFL history.
5. Boomer Esiason: He threw for a ton of yards and TDs in the 80s and led the BENGALS to a Super Bowl(granted, they were very good that year, but its still the BENGALS.)

90s
1: Favre: 3 time MVP, appeared in the Super Bowl twice, winning one. Did more with less than any QB in NFL history except for Elway.
2: Elway:Won 2 super bowls, including one over the heavily favored Packers. Was a phenomenal player, arguably the greatest QB of all time. I gave Favre the nod because of his 3 MVPs.
3. Steve Young: The most efficient passer in NFL history.
4. Dan Marino: He just kept throwing. Nothing else to say about him
5. Jim Kelly: The last QB to call all of his own plays. Unfortunately for him, he ran into the Cowboys a few too many times in those super bowls.

Overall, your list wasn't too bad, but Jim Plunkett should be no where near a top list. If you can't start more than half your career, you do not deserve to be on a top 5 list for a decade.

I just think you put too much stock into the players being on good teams. QBs dont win championships, teams do. More specifically, defenses win championships. Look at Marino, I don't take anything away from him for not winning a Super Bowl, he had no help. I think Elway taking his team to the Super Bowl in the 80s was more impressive than him winning those 2 late in his career.

someone447
02-06-2007, 03:44 PM
so what makes unitas so much better than, say, jurgenson (who between 1961 and 1970, a better passer than unitas was at any point in his career)?

They are more or less equal statwise during that time(jurgenson has the slight advantage). Unitas is the consummate leader. Every player from that Colts team said he was the heart and soul of the team. He is also one of the toughest SOBs to ever play the game.

yourfavestoner
02-06-2007, 03:45 PM
so what makes unitas so much better than, say, jurgenson (who between 1961 and 1970, a better passer than unitas was at any point in his career)?

Meh..Jurgenson was a great player in his own right, and is one of the most underrated players to ever play the game. Most people haven't even heard about him, yet there are some historians who consider him the best of that era.

The thing that sets Unitas apart, though, is how clutch he was. He basically gave pro football the two minute drill (1958 NFL Title Game, also called "The Greatest Game Ever Played"), and called his own plays. He was an All-NFL first or second teamer eight times, made the Pro Bowl ten times, was Player of the Year three times, and, like I said, holds a record that probably won't ever be broken (47 consecutive games with a touchdown pass).

NFLBOY
02-06-2007, 03:52 PM
Johnny Unitas is widely considered the best qb of all time. I would definitely have Starr number 2, and I understand where you are coming from saying you can't put someone you haven't really seen play.

Troy Aikman SHOULD NOT have been a first ballot hall of famer. Don't get me wrong, I like Terry Bradshaw, I just don't think he was a great QB, and there are MANY others that will agree with me on that. He was very good, but not great.

Troy Aikman didn't do a whole lot. He had the all time leading rusher on his team, one of the best offensive lines in football history, a suffocating defense. Aikman was hardly more than along for the ride.

JIM PLUNKETT DIDN'T EVEN START FOR HALF OF HIS CAREER!! That one isn't even debatable.

And obviously YOU are the one who doesn't know how to read. I put THE QB of the 90's, meaning the top, the best, etc.

I go on not what they have done? Ok, here are my lists for each decade.


60's:Like you I haven't seen enough to make a top 5 list. But Johnny U has got to be number one. He was decades ahead of his time. I would like to say Starr is second, but I am not completely sure.

70s:
1. Roger Staubach: Great Scrambler and a pretty accurate passer
2. Fran Tarkenton: An all-around amazing QB, 4th all time in rush yards for a qb. Staubach gets the nod over Tarkenton because of Tarkentons abysmal play in the Super Bowls.
3. Terry Bradshaw: Yes he did win 4 super bowls, but he had perhaps the greatest team ever around him. The 70s Steelers had too many HOFers to count.
4. Bob Griese: for the reasons you mentioned.
5. Ken Stabler: for the reasons you mentioned.

80s
1. Montana: He was CLUTCH, if it was a big game, he was going to deliver. He executed the West Coast offense to perfection.
2. Dan Marino: As of now holds every major record, he had some very good receivers, but his most notable running back was Kareem Abdul-Jabar...
3. John Elway- He led the broncos to 3 super bowls in the 80s with no one else of any note. He made chardonnay out of *********** with that team.
4. Dan Fouts: Led the "Air Coryell" offense that revolutionized the passing game. His Chargers were one of the most exciting teams in NFL history.
5. Boomer Esiason: He threw for a ton of yards and TDs in the 80s and led the BENGALS to a Super Bowl(granted, they were very good that year, but its still the BENGALS.)

90s
1: Favre: 3 time MVP, appeared in the Super Bowl twice, winning one. Did more with less than any QB in NFL history except for Elway.
2: Elway:Won 2 super bowls, including one over the heavily favored Packers. Was a phenomenal player, arguably the greatest QB of all time. I gave Favre the nod because of his 3 MVPs.
3. Steve Young: The most efficient passer in NFL history.
4. Dan Marino: He just kept throwing. Nothing else to say about him
5. Jim Kelly: The last QB to call all of his own plays. Unfortunately for him, he ran into the Cowboys a few too many times in those super bowls.

Overall, your list wasn't too bad, but Jim Plunkett should be no where near a top list. If you can't start more than half your career, you do not deserve to be on a top 5 list for a decade.

I just think you put too much stock into the players being on good teams. QBs dont win championships, teams do. More specifically, defenses win championships. Look at Marino, I don't take anything away from him for not winning a Super Bowl, he had no help. I think Elway taking his team to the Super Bowl in the 80s was more impressive than him winning those 2 late in his career. If you read my post I said they helped thier teams win, I didn't say they won. Also Plunkett had a hard time starting for teams in the 70's, not 80's. He started with the Raiders through 84 when he got injured and Marc Wilson took over. I'm not saying Plunkett is the greatest of all time. I just put the best quarterbacks in the decades they played. Like I said, it's just an opinion. Under Plunkett, the Raiders did win 2 superbowls and had a very impressive record. I would never say Bradshaw wasn't great. You don't go to the hall of fame unless your great. I to don't think Aikman was a first time ballot HOF guy. Then again I don't get to vote either.

bigbluedefense
02-06-2007, 04:24 PM
so what makes unitas so much better than, say, jurgenson (who between 1961 and 1970, a better passer than unitas was at any point in his career)?

Unitas changed the game. The same way Taylor made the Left Tackle a glory position, Unitas's ability in the late 50s to throw the way he did made the DE position mean something.

Prior to that, it was all about your DTs. DE was important, but it wasn't the glory position that it would later become. Unitas made it a glory position. With his ability to throw the ball the way he did, he made the DE an important piece to the defense. It became important to rush the passer from the edge of all of a sudden. Prior to that, as long as you had a good MIKE and DT duo you were good. Not anymore. You also saw the evolution of the CB and Safety happen after Unitas made it acceptable to throw on 1st down. He was the spark that made the CB, S, and DE position become a more important position than it once was.

Without Unitas, there wouldn't be a Jurgeson. Unitas was the guy who made it acceptable to throw once in awhile on 1st down, and he was the the first guy who would throw near the goalline. Before that was blasphemy, Unitas showed the world it was possible.

He also suffered through alot of injuries during his career, which hurt his overall numbers. You gotta take the #s with a grain of salt.

Boston
02-06-2007, 04:28 PM
Favre isn't getting a ton of love on here. Just an observation.

Nobody views him as top 5 except packer fans. For the most part anyways.

I think it's because he won those MVP's and the Super Bowl a long time ago. People are thinking of Favre these last few years where he hasn't had a team around him that was as good as his best years and letting that diminish his legacy a little bit. All the other players in people's top 5's are retired for the most part so that makes them look at the career as a whole. For example, when people put Dan Marino in the top 5 they never thought of his final year. I guarantee if Favre just retired he'd be in more top 5's. I'm not saying the last few years have tarnished his legacy cause when you look at it in whole it's as impressive as anybody's, it's just that people don't see the "greatness" they saw years ago. I think in the end more people will realize that than they do right now, because in the back of their mind there's retirement talk every year, team isn't successful as in years past, and some people get tired of hearing about him. I'm not saying they're taking this into account intentionally when ranking him, just indirectly and unintentionally. here's what I get out of this..."Packer fans (and Favre) are living in the past" :lol:
Probably a reason they want to trade for Moss :lol:

Go away. You probably weren't even born than.

People put way too much stock in Favre's interceptions, or turnovers.

Favre: 414 TD passes, and 273 interceptions/ 1.51 TD's every INT
Elway: 300 TD passes, and 226 interceptions/ 1.327 TD's every INT
Montana: 273 TD passes, and 139 interceptions/ 1.96 TD's every INT
Aikman: 165 TD passes, and 141 interceptions/ 1.17 TD's every INT
Marino: 420 TD passes, and 252 interceptions/ 1.6667 TD's every INT
Young: 232 TD passes, and 107 interceptions/ 2.168 TD's every INT
Manning: 275 TD passes, and 139 interceptions/ 1.978 TD's every INT
Brady: 147 TD passes, and 78 interceptions/ 1.88 TD's every INT

someone447
02-06-2007, 04:35 PM
If you don't see Aikman as a first ballot hall of famer how do you put him above people who without a doubt deserve, or deserved to be first ballot hall of famers: marino, elway, favre.

Plunkett played 4 years in the 80s, hardly enough to put him anywhere near the top.

njx9
02-06-2007, 04:35 PM
but how much of all of that was really unitas, and how much was john mackey, one of the first (and probably the best) tight end who played a more modern role? isn't this the same argument made against peyton manning (that his weapons make him look far better)?

what about raymond berry, who had, arguably, just as big a role in the colts 2 minute drive as unitas?

maybe lenny moore?

it can't've hurt that he had a hall of famer at LT.

i mean, unitas had an overwhelming amount of hall of fame talent on the field with him. maybe they all made him look better than he really was?

bigbluedefense
02-06-2007, 04:44 PM
but how much of all of that was really unitas, and how much was john mackey, one of the first (and probably the best) tight end who played a more modern role? isn't this the same argument made against peyton manning (that his weapons make him look far better)?

what about raymond berry, who had, arguably, just as big a role in the colts 2 minute drive as unitas?

maybe lenny moore?

it can't've hurt that he had a hall of famer at LT.

i mean, unitas had an overwhelming amount of hall of fame talent on the field with him. maybe they all made him look better than he really was?

Thats an interesting way to look at it, something I overlooked. The relationship is something only the players and coaches can comment on. How much of it was Unitas vs his skill position guys. Perhaps the recognition of these skill position players does not happen if they didn't have a Unitas throwing them the ball? Without him, no matter how good they are, theyre just a bunch of route runners.

Im leaning towards Unitas. Watching old games of his play, you can just see the talent. His ability and moxy, presence and throwing ability, it was just different compared to everyone else back then. He just had that it factor.

BF51 probably knows more than I do on this. Im curious to hear his take on all of this.

TitleTown088
02-06-2007, 04:45 PM
I have never seen this thread before. How creative...

NFLBOY
02-06-2007, 07:08 PM
If you don't see Aikman as a first ballot hall of famer how do you put him above people who without a doubt deserve, or deserved to be first ballot hall of famers: marino, elway, favre.

Plunkett played 4 years in the 80s, hardly enough to put him anywhere near the top. Pay attention to how I listed them. I did it in decades. The reason is because of the way the game changed. Marino was put in there twice because of what he was able to do. The reason why I wouldn't put Aikman as a first time ballot, is because I thought that there were other guys up for the HOF that deserved to be in there before him. Same with Elway and Favre. Just because it is Farve, doesn't mean I would put him in the top 10 of all time or make him the greatest. Plunkett was put in there because of what he did in that span.

njx9
02-06-2007, 07:42 PM
but how much of all of that was really unitas, and how much was john mackey, one of the first (and probably the best) tight end who played a more modern role? isn't this the same argument made against peyton manning (that his weapons make him look far better)?

what about raymond berry, who had, arguably, just as big a role in the colts 2 minute drive as unitas?

maybe lenny moore?

it can't've hurt that he had a hall of famer at LT.

i mean, unitas had an overwhelming amount of hall of fame talent on the field with him. maybe they all made him look better than he really was?

Thats an interesting way to look at it, something I overlooked. The relationship is something only the players and coaches can comment on. How much of it was Unitas vs his skill position guys. Perhaps the recognition of these skill position players does not happen if they didn't have a Unitas throwing them the ball? Without him, no matter how good they are, theyre just a bunch of route runners.

Im leaning towards Unitas. Watching old games of his play, you can just see the talent. His ability and moxy, presence and throwing ability, it was just different compared to everyone else back then. He just had that it factor.

BF51 probably knows more than I do on this. Im curious to hear his take on all of this.

seconded. although i'm not surprised he's avoided this thread.

clearly i agree on unitas and think he was a great qb, but you and YFS gave me a chance to ask someone articulate to say why, so i took advantage and played a little devil's advocate.

i DO think the presence of a game changing TE like mackey and the amazing offensive talent surrounding unitas helped him. the presence of jim parker alone had to make a huge difference.

i also find it odd how often jurgensen is overlooked in these (i'd forgotten his name for the most part).

SimonRath
02-06-2007, 07:45 PM
1. Brett Favre
2. Dan Marrino
3. Joe Montana
4. Steve Young
5. Peyton Manning

02-06-2007, 09:21 PM
Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)


i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.

:-D, that was against the Lions in the first round of the playoffs. Elway definitely could make a throw like that. I think his arm may have even been stronger than Favre's ever was.

It was a 40 yard td pass and somehow Sterling Sharpe was wide open in the end zone. How do you let Sterling Sharpe wide open in the endzone. That td just baffles me. It was a great game though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_playoffs,_1993-94#NFC:_Green_Bay_Packers_28.2C_Detroit_Lions_24

He still threw it 60 yards on a rope. He rolled out and launched it to the back of the endzone.

No one is saying that he is as good of a QB as he was in 96. But he is still an above average starting QB in the NFL.

Here is the video of the throw. Still very impressive, probably 50 yards but across his body.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjdfSx2MojM

cunningham06
02-06-2007, 09:32 PM
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.

Bradshaw shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with those guys.

Well, he won 4 Super Bowls.

Yes, and playing with one of the most talented defensive units ever assembled has nothing to do with those wins? Big deal he was in a good situation during his career, doesn't mean he was the best.

cunningham06
02-06-2007, 09:40 PM
Favre isn't getting a ton of love on here. Just an observation.

Nobody views him as top 5 except packer fans. For the most part anyways.

I think it's because he won those MVP's and the Super Bowl a long time ago. People are thinking of Favre these last few years where he hasn't had a team around him that was as good as his best years and letting that diminish his legacy a little bit. All the other players in people's top 5's are retired for the most part so that makes them look at the career as a whole. For example, when people put Dan Marino in the top 5 they never thought of his final year. I guarantee if Favre just retired he'd be in more top 5's. I'm not saying the last few years have tarnished his legacy cause when you look at it in whole it's as impressive as anybody's, it's just that people don't see the "greatness" they saw years ago. I think in the end more people will realize that than they do right now, because in the back of their mind there's retirement talk every year, team isn't successful as in years past, and some people get tired of hearing about him. I'm not saying they're taking this into account intentionally when ranking him, just indirectly and unintentionally. here's what I get out of this..."Packer fans (and Favre) are living in the past" :lol:
Probably a reason they want to trade for Moss :lol:

Go away. You probably weren't even born than.

People put way too much stock in Favre's interceptions, or turnovers.

Favre: 414 TD passes, and 273 interceptions/ 1.51 TD's every INT
Elway: 300 TD passes, and 226 interceptions/ 1.327 TD's every INT
Montana: 273 TD passes, and 139 interceptions/ 1.96 TD's every INT
Aikman: 165 TD passes, and 141 interceptions/ 1.17 TD's every INT
Marino: 420 TD passes, and 252 interceptions/ 1.6667 TD's every INT
Young: 232 TD passes, and 107 interceptions/ 2.168 TD's every INT
Manning: 275 TD passes, and 139 interceptions/ 1.978 TD's every INT
Brady: 147 TD passes, and 78 interceptions/ 1.88 TD's every INT

Favre is definitely top 5. Not only was he among the greatest of all time when he was at his peak, he has sustained an above average level of play longer than anyone else.

Mr. Stiller
02-06-2007, 10:10 PM
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.

Bradshaw shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with those guys.

Well, he won 4 Super Bowls.

Yes, and playing with one of the most talented defensive units ever assembled has nothing to do with those wins? Big deal he was in a good situation during his career, doesn't mean he was the best.

He still had to play QB all those games and win.


Elway had a pretty stout defense.. Romanowski, Neil Smith, Atwater, Traylor and Trevor Pryce... Were some of my favorite guys growing up.

Elway also had, Shannon Sharpe, Terell Davis, Tom Nalen, Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey. Pretty solid Lineup there.

Not to mention Reliable kickers in Rouen and Elam.


Farve Had arguably the greatest DE of all time.. And Santana Dotson was no slouch either, dude was massive and a monster player.

He also had Mark Chmura, Antonio Freeman, Desmond Howard(Who won the SB) and Dorsey Levens Although not HOF'ers .. no slouches.

If anyone wants to make the "Has no talent around them" SB comment, should be Marino... Mark Clayton and Mark Duper... both had 1300+ Yards recieving...

Elway also took his Broncos earlier to the SB.. but His stats were about as Bad as Roethlisbergers were.

Elway in 1990 threw 10 for 26 for 108 yards and 2 INTs.
Elway in 1988 threw 14 for 38 for 257 yards, 1 Td and 3 INTs.


It wasn't like he did amazing in the superbowl all the time. I still respect him and think he was a great QB, but there's more to it...

SuperBowl X:
Bradshaw: 9 for 19, 209 yards 2 TD's Better than Elways....

SuperBowl XIII:
Bradshaw: 17 for 30, 318 yards, 4 Td's, 1 Int.. again...

Superbowl XIV:
Bradshaw: 14 for 21, 309 yards, 2Td's, 3 INT's... again better than Elways.. in a time before the rules that opened up the pass Game.

I think you guys severely underrated Bradshaw and Pittsburgh Qb's in General because our Normal Preference to run first.

someone447
02-06-2007, 10:24 PM
All those guys you named for Elway came in the late 90s. Who were his receivers in the 80s when he went? Who were his running backs? He had a GREAT team when he won those 2. There is no debating that. Just like Favre had a great team in '96. Neither of them ever played with a future Hall of Famer on offense(TD would have been had he not gotten injured.) Bradshaw had 4 on offense and 4 on defense. Favre has played with 1 future hall of famer his entire career, Reggie White. Elway had Tony Dorsett for one injury shortened season. 8>1>1/2 Tell me how exactly those teams stack up.

How does Dorsey Levens stack up with Franco Harris? How does Antonio Freeman stack up against Lynn Swann or John Stallworth? How does either defense stack up against the Steel Curtain?

NFLBOY, Look at John Elway during the 90s and tell me he doesn't deserve to be on that list. Hell him and Favre were the 2 QBs on the NFL all 90s team. Elway and Favre are without a doubt first ballot hall of famers, and they each should be. Aikman, not so much.

Plunkett I think is just ridiculous, and I am sure just about everyone else would agree.

cunningham06
02-06-2007, 11:00 PM
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.

Bradshaw shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with those guys.

Well, he won 4 Super Bowls.

Yes, and playing with one of the most talented defensive units ever assembled has nothing to do with those wins? Big deal he was in a good situation during his career, doesn't mean he was the best.

He still had to play QB all those games and win.

Again, that's weak because the defense was amazing, the run game was excellent, and having 2 HOF WR's doesn't hurt either. Their offensive line was also quite good. The 70's Steelers IMO were the greatest dynasty because of their insane talent level. Bradshaw didn't have to win games, he just had to not lose them. He was excellent in the superbowls, but he was not close to that level in his regular seasons. If he played at that level in the regular season I would put him in the top 5, but as things are, he doesn't belong there.

Elway had a pretty stout defense.. Romanowski, Neil Smith, Atwater, Traylor and Trevor Pryce... Were some of my favorite guys growing up.

Stout and having HOF'ers at every level of the defense are two different things. Yes the Broncos defense was good, but you can't honestly say that it was as good as the 70's Steelers defense was. Anyway I'm not a big Elway fan and don't believe that he is a top 5 qb either.

Elway also had, Shannon Sharpe, Terell Davis, Tom Nalen, Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey. Pretty solid Lineup there.

Again I don't think Elway is a top 5 qb, so this is irrelevant.

Not to mention Reliable kickers in Rouen and Elam.


Farve Had arguably the greatest DE of all time.. And Santana Dotson was no slouch either, dude was massive and a monster player.

Bradshaw had arguably the best DT of all time. Greenwood was a beast, as was the whole defensive line, I would take the 70's Steelers D Line over the Packers. The Packers linebackers pale in comparison to the Steelers Linebackers. Jack Lambert and Jack Ham is insane.

He also had Mark Chmura, Antonio Freeman, Desmond Howard(Who won the SB) and Dorsey Levens Although not HOF'ers .. no slouches.

Find a team that won a superbowl that is made up of slouches. All teams that win superbowls have talent besides at the qb position, in the case of the Steelers they were amazing at just about all aspects of the game. That team was destined to win championships, no matter who was the qb.

If anyone wants to make the "Has no talent around them" SB comment, should be Marino... Mark Clayton and Mark Duper... both had 1300+ Yards recieving...

Yes, but both left midway through Marino's career. Marino also had no run game to speak of during his career to back him up. It's pretty easy to defend against an offense if you know they are going to pass, yet Marino still won games and put up amazing numbers.

Elway also took his Broncos earlier to the SB.. but His stats were about as Bad as Roethlisbergers were.

Elway in 1990 threw 10 for 26 for 108 yards and 2 INTs.
Elway in 1988 threw 14 for 38 for 257 yards, 1 Td and 3 INTs.

Again I don't care about Elway.


It wasn't like he did amazing in the superbowl all the time. I still respect him and think he was a great QB, but there's more to it...

SuperBowl X:
Bradshaw: 9 for 19, 209 yards 2 TD's Better than Elways....

Still don't give a #### about Elway...

SuperBowl XIII:
Bradshaw: 17 for 30, 318 yards, 4 Td's, 1 Int.. again...

Great game, doesn't make him worthy of top 5.

Superbowl XIV:
Bradshaw: 14 for 21, 309 yards, 2Td's, 3 INT's... again better than Elways.. in a time before the rules that opened up the pass Game.

Pretty average outing there.

I think you guys severely underrated Bradshaw and Pittsburgh Qb's in General because our Normal Preference to run first.

I don't underrate Bradshaw, you just overrate him. Pittsburgh was a run first defensive minded team. Bradshaw was not a bigger factor than the run game and defense in winning games, so I don't give him all the credit for the SB wins. Bradshaw was in a position of little responsibility in respect to other great qb's.

jblaze66
02-06-2007, 11:09 PM
I'd be willing to bet $100 bucks that the % of people (in this room who voted him as a top 5 QB of all time) who actually watched Johnny Unitas play a game (in it's entirety , while the game was being played) is under 5%.

Why not just include Jesus and Moses in the top 5 as well
Why do we have to see him play to figure if he is one of the best? The numbers he put up in that era are kinda unreal. I would compare it to Babe Ruth's dominance of baseball.

njx9
02-06-2007, 11:48 PM
Elway had a pretty stout defense.. Romanowski, Neil Smith, Atwater, Traylor and Trevor Pryce... Were some of my favorite guys growing up.

Elway also had, Shannon Sharpe, Terell Davis, Tom Nalen, Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey. Pretty solid Lineup there.

Not to mention Reliable kickers in Rouen and Elam.


pretty solid?! how many hall of famers did john play with? how many did bradshaw play with? stupid argument.

i won't even get into the vast distortion of elway's stats and career after that as it's utterly ridiculous.

thetedginnshow
02-07-2007, 01:03 AM
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).

But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.

yourfavestoner
02-07-2007, 01:07 AM
Favorite 5

1. Steve Young
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Doug Flutie
5. Rich Gannon

Top 5

1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Johnny Unitas

The rest is too jumbled...marino, tarkenton, young, bradshaw, etc. Not counting current guys like brady, manning, and favre.

Bradshaw shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with those guys.

Well, he won 4 Super Bowls.

Yes, and playing with one of the most talented defensive units ever assembled has nothing to do with those wins? Big deal he was in a good situation during his career, doesn't mean he was the best.

He still had to play QB all those games and win.


Elway had a pretty stout defense.. Romanowski, Neil Smith, Atwater, Traylor and Trevor Pryce... Were some of my favorite guys growing up.

Elway also had, Shannon Sharpe, Terell Davis, Tom Nalen, Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey. Pretty solid Lineup there.

Not to mention Reliable kickers in Rouen and Elam.


Farve Had arguably the greatest DE of all time.. And Santana Dotson was no slouch either, dude was massive and a monster player.

He also had Mark Chmura, Antonio Freeman, Desmond Howard(Who won the SB) and Dorsey Levens Although not HOF'ers .. no slouches.

If anyone wants to make the "Has no talent around them" SB comment, should be Marino... Mark Clayton and Mark Duper... both had 1300+ Yards recieving...

Elway also took his Broncos earlier to the SB.. but His stats were about as Bad as Roethlisbergers were.

Elway in 1990 threw 10 for 26 for 108 yards and 2 INTs.
Elway in 1988 threw 14 for 38 for 257 yards, 1 Td and 3 INTs.


It wasn't like he did amazing in the superbowl all the time. I still respect him and think he was a great QB, but there's more to it...

SuperBowl X:
Bradshaw: 9 for 19, 209 yards 2 TD's Better than Elways....

SuperBowl XIII:
Bradshaw: 17 for 30, 318 yards, 4 Td's, 1 Int.. again...

Superbowl XIV:
Bradshaw: 14 for 21, 309 yards, 2Td's, 3 INT's... again better than Elways.. in a time before the rules that opened up the pass Game.

I think you guys severely underrated Bradshaw and Pittsburgh Qb's in General because our Normal Preference to run first.

Keep in mind, though, that Sterling Sharpe was probably the most dominant receiver in the NFL for a few years before he got hurt.

someone447
02-07-2007, 01:09 AM
Favre has never had a great supporting cast on offense. The year they won the Super Bowl, he made that offense great. The defense was great, they are one of the most underrated defenses in league history. Statistically, they were just as good as the 85 bears. 10 years from now, I bet you can't name a single person on the Packers offense, other than Favre. Just like its very tough to name a person from the broncos offense other than elway(from the 80s, when he took them to the super bowl.) No one did more with less than he did.

njx9
02-07-2007, 01:30 AM
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).

3/5 of elway's teams were not exceptional.

But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.

i have no idea what you're trying to say. if you're implying that peyton had as little talent as marino... well, i'm curious how you came to that conclusion.

thetedginnshow
02-07-2007, 02:23 AM
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).

3/5 of elway's teams were not exceptional.

But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.

i have no idea what you're trying to say. if you're implying that peyton had as little talent as marino... well, i'm curious how you came to that conclusion.

I think Elway's teams got underrated considerably, but I don't imagine that argument getting anywhere.

As for comparing Marino and Manning's teams, well, no, that's not what I was saying at all.

NFLBOY
02-07-2007, 07:47 AM
One thing people forget. Bradshaw made the players around him better. Very true that there are alot of hall of fame guys on the Steelers, but another qb on that team wasn't the one getting them the ball. I guess for all you Elway lovers out there, he just couldn't nake the players around him better. Also your argument for saying he had nobody around him holds no water. He didn't play defense and last time I checked it was a team effort to get to the superbowl. Isn't that what you Elway people are saying? If he was so great, he wouldn't have stunk the joint up in his superbowl appearences. Even the one in 97 when he had everything around him, he still stunk. I'm not saying that Elway isn't a hall of famer, but don't even try to play the crying game against Bradshaw. Fact is, Bradshaw was a better big game qb and history has shown it. Bradshaw 4-0 in superbowls, Elway 2-3. Nuff said.

someone447
02-07-2007, 08:22 AM
ELWAY DIDNT HAVE A SINGLE HALL OF FAMER ON HIS TEAM IN ANY OF THOSE SUPER BOWLS!!!! BRADSHAW HAD 8 HALL OF FAME TEAMMATES!!! WHAT ABOUT THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

Stoner, earlier in the thread I said that Favre had one great player on offense, Sterling Sharpe. But Sharpe got hurt before his MVP years.

njx9
02-07-2007, 08:37 AM
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).

3/5 of elway's teams were not exceptional.

But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.

i have no idea what you're trying to say. if you're implying that peyton had as little talent as marino... well, i'm curious how you came to that conclusion.

I think Elway's teams got underrated considerably, but I don't imagine that argument getting anywhere.

As for comparing Marino and Manning's teams, well, no, that's not what I was saying at all.

elway's 97 and 98 super bowl teams were underrated. his late 80's and early 90's teams were most definitely not. vance johnson, mark jackson and ricky nattiel weren't making anyone worry during game planning, and the broncos running game (for most of that period) was atrocious.

the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton

i see no other way that can be interpreted than with you saying that peyton has no talent around him.

buckeyes12
02-07-2007, 12:29 PM
Top 5 All-time Quarterbacks
1. Montana - Just the best ever
2. Favre - 3 MVP's, almost every record, Got a ring, and the toghest man alive
3. Elway
4. Marino
5. Unitas

Sorry but no list can compare to that top 5

thetedginnshow
02-07-2007, 06:23 PM
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).

3/5 of elway's teams were not exceptional.

But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.

i have no idea what you're trying to say. if you're implying that peyton had as little talent as marino... well, i'm curious how you came to that conclusion.

I think Elway's teams got underrated considerably, but I don't imagine that argument getting anywhere.

As for comparing Marino and Manning's teams, well, no, that's not what I was saying at all.

elway's 97 and 98 super bowl teams were underrated. his late 80's and early 90's teams were most definitely not. vance johnson, mark jackson and ricky nattiel weren't making anyone worry during game planning, and the broncos running game (for most of that period) was atrocious.

They actually had some pretty good defenses. Nothing like the Steelers or Cowboys or whomever, but certainly more than they're being given credit for. But I don't see that point getting anywhere.

the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton

i see no other way that can be interpreted than with you saying that peyton has no talent around him.

I actually don't see what you can't comprehend about this. I am saying he has considerably less talent on his teams opposed to most other HOF/HOF-worthy QBs beyond Marino, but that's it.

someone447
02-07-2007, 06:39 PM
Who did Favre have on offense? Favre will have played with 1 hall of famer in his career. Same with Elway, and Elways was only for a year. Favres was on defense. I would take the Colts offense over anything the Packers or the Broncos ever had on offense.

cunningham06
02-07-2007, 07:36 PM
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).

3/5 of elway's teams were not exceptional.

But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.

i have no idea what you're trying to say. if you're implying that peyton had as little talent as marino... well, i'm curious how you came to that conclusion.

I think Elway's teams got underrated considerably, but I don't imagine that argument getting anywhere.

As for comparing Marino and Manning's teams, well, no, that's not what I was saying at all.

elway's 97 and 98 super bowl teams were underrated. his late 80's and early 90's teams were most definitely not. vance johnson, mark jackson and ricky nattiel weren't making anyone worry during game planning, and the broncos running game (for most of that period) was atrocious.

They actually had some pretty good defenses. Nothing like the Steelers or Cowboys or whomever, but certainly more than they're being given credit for. But I don't see that point getting anywhere.

the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton

i see no other way that can be interpreted than with you saying that peyton has no talent around him.

I actually don't see what you can't comprehend about this. I am saying he has considerably less talent on his teams opposed to most other HOF/HOF-worthy QBs beyond Marino, but that's it.

Peyton has had a very talented team around him in recent years. He has a future HOF'er to throw to in Marvin Harrison, he had a very good RB in Edge, Addai is coming along as well, and not to mention one of the best offensive lines over the last decade. His offensive line is unbelievable, especially during the regular season, they have collapsed at points in the playoffs, but they are a very good group. Reggie Wayne is one of the top 3 #2 receivers in the NFL. His offense has been pretty stacked. He hasn't had the benefit of having a good defense to back him up like some other HOF qb's. The Marino comparison isn't that far off, they were similar defensively (not including this year during the regular season), both decent units, more bend but don't break than anything else. Marino had no running game, and while the Mark's bro's were good, they were no Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. Also Peyton actually has a run game.

Man_Of_Steel
02-07-2007, 08:05 PM
1) Montana
2) Marino
3) Elway
4) Unitis
5) Manning

johbur
02-08-2007, 01:15 AM
Favorite 5

1)Steve Young
2)Bernie Kosar (how can anyone not love Bernie?)
3)Donovan McNabb
4)John Elway
5)Charlie Frye

Best 5

1)Rex Grossman
2)Everyone else

How'd ol' Rex do in the big game?

PackerFan20
02-08-2007, 08:51 PM
1. Peyton Manning
2.a) Dan Marino
2.b) Joe Montana
3. Bret Favre
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young

I've seen em' all and Peyton is the greatest I've ever seen.

As a football player Unitas was overrated imo, exceptional for his time but, he shouldn't be on this list. Still one of my old favs.
Manning has always been blessed with a great off. while he was in his prime. Favre probably never played with a HOF off player (though he did have a great def to help). Elway also didnt always have great off.

njx9
02-08-2007, 10:26 PM
1. Peyton Manning
2.a) Dan Marino
2.b) Joe Montana
3. Bret Favre
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young

I've seen em' all and Peyton is the greatest I've ever seen.

As a football player Unitas was overrated imo, exceptional for his time but, he shouldn't be on this list. Still one of my old favs.
Manning has always been blessed with a great off. while he was in his prime. Favre probably never played with a HOF off player (though he did have a great def to help). Elway also didnt always have great off.

sterling sharpe would've been with a few more seasons.

Ewing
02-09-2007, 03:45 PM
Best Of All-Time

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Dan Marino
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Peyton Manning

Anyone who doesn't have Unitas in the top five shouldn't be allowed to post anymore. Football existed before 82 believe it or not.

someone447
02-09-2007, 05:46 PM
1. Peyton Manning
2.a) Dan Marino
2.b) Joe Montana
3. Bret Favre
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young

I've seen em' all and Peyton is the greatest I've ever seen.

As a football player Unitas was overrated imo, exceptional for his time but, he shouldn't be on this list. Still one of my old favs.
Manning has always been blessed with a great off. while he was in his prime. Favre probably never played with a HOF off player (though he did have a great def to help). Elway also didnt always have great off.

sterling sharpe would've been with a few more seasons.

I have no doubt Sterling Sharpe was a HOF caliber player, but Favre only played with him a few years. Favre's prime came after sharpes injury.

Freddy G
02-09-2007, 05:50 PM
1. Brett Favre
2. Jon Elway
3. Montana (not one of my favorites)
4. Peyton Manning
5. Steve Young

Boston
02-09-2007, 06:00 PM
Best Of All-Time

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Dan Marino
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Peyton Manning

Anyone who doesn't have Unitas in the top five shouldn't be allowed to post anymore. Football existed before 82 believe it or not.

Takin' a page out of njx's book, but, aren't people allowed to have there own opinions nowadays?

njx9
02-09-2007, 07:29 PM
Best Of All-Time

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Dan Marino
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Peyton Manning

Anyone who doesn't have Unitas in the top five shouldn't be allowed to post anymore. Football existed before 82 believe it or not.

Takin' a page out of njx's book, but, aren't people allowed to have there own opinions nowadays?

nothing from that post came from my "book", but nice try to get a quick shot in.

Stats
02-10-2007, 08:18 AM
1. John Elway
2. Joe Montana
3. J. Unitas
4. Dan Marino
5. Steve Young

Stats
02-10-2007, 08:21 AM
1. Peyton Manning
2.a) Dan Marino
2.b) Joe Montana
3. Bret Favre
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young

I've seen em' all and Peyton is the greatest I've ever seen.

As a football player Unitas was overrated imo, exceptional for his time but, he shouldn't be on this list. Still one of my old favs.
Manning has always been blessed with a great off. while he was in his prime. Favre probably never played with a HOF off player (though he did have a great def to help). Elway also didnt always have great off.

Good gawd if Elway, Marino, Favre, Montana, Young, etc....had Edge, Harrison, Wayne year after year they would have multiple titles by now. And they damn sure wouldn't have gagged up playoff games against that Pats and Steelers team....and they wouldn't have had their defense carry them to a title while they threw pick after pick. They would have done most of the heavy lifting with their quarterbacking.

someone447
02-10-2007, 11:38 AM
Montana may have had an even better supporting cast on offense than manning. And he damn sure had a better defense.

02-10-2007, 12:05 PM
Montana may have had an even better supporting cast on offense than manning. And he damn sure had a better defense.

Elway also had 6 pro bowlers on offense with him.

someone447
02-10-2007, 01:17 PM
Montana may have had an even better supporting cast on offense than manning. And he damn sure had a better defense.

Elway also had 6 pro bowlers on offense with him.

HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ELWAY HAVING NO SUPPORTING CAST IT IS THE 80S!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone admits his super bowl teams were great. But hell, he was 37-38 years old by then. When Bobby Humphrey is the best player on your offense other than you for the greater part of a decade, that is a problem.

02-10-2007, 01:21 PM
Montana may have had an even better supporting cast on offense than manning. And he damn sure had a better defense.

Elway also had 6 pro bowlers on offense with him.

HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ELWAY HAVING NO SUPPORTING CAST IT IS THE 80S!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone admits his super bowl teams were great. But hell, he was 37-38 years old by then. When Bobby Humphrey is the best player on your offense other than you for the greater part of a decade, that is a problem.

Wow, overreact why don't you? I was just talking about Stats' post saying what if Elway had a great supporting cast.

limpoporanique
02-10-2007, 01:29 PM
1). Joe Montana
2). Peyton Manning
3). Brett Favre
4). Steve Young
5). John Elway

Vince Lombardi
02-10-2007, 02:44 PM
I'm not gonna say that Favre never played with any great offensive players around him, because there were a few, but he made a career out of making mediocre players around him look like all-pros. I mean on just about any other team I doubt Antonio Freeman even sniffs the Pro Bowl. During the Super Bowl years our defense was amazing, which definitely brought the Pack up to elite level, but for the majority of Favres career they were merely solid but unspectacular.

I think a lot of the younger members on this site who didn't watch Favre in his prime underrate him because of the poor seasons he's had the last few years during the downside of his career. The fact of the matter is that Favre put together some of the single best seasons from a QB ever when he was in his prime, including 8 seasons of 30+ TD's. His "penchant" for throwing lots of INT's is also vastly overblown. In 16 seasons in the NFL he's only had 4 seasons in which his INT's were equal to (or greater than) the amount of TD's he threw. Yea, his gunslinger mentality has gotten the best of him on many occasions leading him to throw uneccesary INT's trying to make impossible throws, but it's that same mentality that made him great. The majority of his career he's been in the top 5 in every major statistical category for QB's, even in his later "washed up years". Anybody who doesn't have Favre in their top 5 is delusional.

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/5749/favrestatsqr8.jpg

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/6733/favreleaderspr9.jpg

someone447
02-10-2007, 03:39 PM
Montana may have had an even better supporting cast on offense than manning. And he damn sure had a better defense.

Elway also had 6 pro bowlers on offense with him.

HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ELWAY HAVING NO SUPPORTING CAST IT IS THE 80S!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone admits his super bowl teams were great. But hell, he was 37-38 years old by then. When Bobby Humphrey is the best player on your offense other than you for the greater part of a decade, that is a problem.

Wow, overreact why don't you? I was just talking about Stats' post saying what if Elway had a great supporting cast.

We have been saying it for 6 pages now... Yes, and he won 2 super bowls with that cast.

Stats
02-10-2007, 09:20 PM
Montana may have had an even better supporting cast on offense than manning. And he damn sure had a better defense.

Maybe for his 3rd and 4th SB. But not the 1st two.

Stats
02-10-2007, 09:22 PM
Montana may have had an even better supporting cast on offense than manning. And he damn sure had a better defense.

Elway also had 6 pro bowlers on offense with him.

I think it took about 10 seasons for Elway to have a WR or OL of his make the pro bowl....and he took those teams to 3 SBs(4 AFC Championships). Now think about what he would have done with Wayne, Harrison, Edge, and Pollard/Clark. :lol:

DaKid13
02-13-2007, 03:33 AM
Favorite:
Jim Plunkett
Ken Stabler
Rich Gannon
Warren Moon
Randall Cunningham

Best:
Joe Montana
Terry Bradshaw
Tom Brady
Troy Aikman
John Elway
Honorable mention: Jim Plunkett
RINGS COUNT!

Finsfan79
02-13-2007, 07:48 AM
Elway was definitely better, but the number of HOFers they had on their team shouldn't be an indication, especially with all the snubs and terribly underrated players there are out there. But, you can compare them to the teams of the time, in which case the Steelers were vastly superior to their opposition opposed to Elway's teams (granted, they were exceptional as well).

3/5 of elway's teams were not exceptional.

But in all actuality, the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton, and possibly Marino. That I can think of anyway.

i have no idea what you're trying to say. if you're implying that peyton had as little talent as marino... well, i'm curious how you came to that conclusion.

I think Elway's teams got underrated considerably, but I don't imagine that argument getting anywhere.

As for comparing Marino and Manning's teams, well, no, that's not what I was saying at all.

elway's 97 and 98 super bowl teams were underrated. his late 80's and early 90's teams were most definitely not. vance johnson, mark jackson and ricky nattiel weren't making anyone worry during game planning, and the broncos running game (for most of that period) was atrocious.

They actually had some pretty good defenses. Nothing like the Steelers or Cowboys or whomever, but certainly more than they're being given credit for. But I don't see that point getting anywhere.

the only "great" QB to never be surrounded by a great supporting cast is probably Peyton

i see no other way that can be interpreted than with you saying that peyton has no talent around him.

I actually don't see what you can't comprehend about this. I am saying he has considerably less talent on his teams opposed to most other HOF/HOF-worthy QBs beyond Marino, but that's it.

Peyton has had a very talented team around him in recent years. He has a future HOF'er to throw to in Marvin Harrison, he had a very good RB in Edge, Addai is coming along as well, and not to mention one of the best offensive lines over the last decade. His offensive line is unbelievable, especially during the regular season, they have collapsed at points in the playoffs, but they are a very good group. Reggie Wayne is one of the top 3 #2 receivers in the NFL. His offense has been pretty stacked. He hasn't had the benefit of having a good defense to back him up like some other HOF qb's. The Marino comparison isn't that far off, they were similar defensively (not including this year during the regular season), both decent units, more bend but don't break than anything else. Marino had no running game, and while the Mark's bro's were good, they were no Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. Also Peyton actually has a run game.

Duper was rather over-rated honestly he was more of just a sprinter made by marino's accurate arm. Clayton was a solid WR but by no account elite without the QB making him so. I would think Wayne would be considered better then either. Nat Moore was at the end of his career when Danny was starting up sadly. Defensively the team was "alright" but never anything special. After Dwight Stephenson went down with the injury in the mid 80s it would be 5+ more years before he would get a decent offensive line. He never had a RB worth a damn and really never had a dominating player on the defensive side really unless you wanna count Offardahl (sp) MLB, but really he was a bust for his potentials.

Overall I think the only critism in his entire career for Don Shula was he never put enough pieces around Marino to make it happen. Don himself has said that many times, as had people that played with Danny.

So yeah I completely agree that Most of the QB's ahead of him on some of these lists had alot more work with. Specially Montana, Brady, Peyton, Bradshaw.

As for the superbowl of winning one or two or three it is an interesting debate to wage with folks. I always find it interesting how folks equiate the Super bowl victory to the QB. Why they dont do that with other positions though. Yes a QB touches the ball every time on offense, but it is a 11 offense, 11 defense, and special teams (subs too) team.

Would anyone on this board say Franco Harris is a Better Running back then OJ Simpson was? Or Gale Sayers? How about Barry Sanders?

Harris won 3 Super bowls and is a Hall of Famer, Sanders won none. But never had a team around him.

NFLBOY
02-13-2007, 08:27 AM
Harris won 4 superbowls. He was also a better all around back than Sanders. Sanders was knoen as stone hands and he couldn't block. As a pure runner, there is no doubt Sanders was better. Just 2 different kinds of ball players. I think that goes with alot of qb's also. Lots of different styles, so it is kinda hard to compare. I think that is why it is important to realize what kind of leadership a player has or had and who called the plays and also who made what players better around them. There is alot that goes into what makes a qb great besides how many yards they throw for.

Finsfan79
02-13-2007, 09:00 AM
Harris won 4 superbowls. He was also a better all around back than Sanders. Sanders was knoen as stone hands and he couldn't block. As a pure runner, there is no doubt Sanders was better. Just 2 different kinds of ball players. I think that goes with alot of qb's also. Lots of different styles, so it is kinda hard to compare. I think that is why it is important to realize what kind of leadership a player has or had and who called the plays and also who made what players better around them. There is alot that goes into what makes a qb great besides how many yards they throw for.

I know Harris is a heck of a back I watched games taped of him more then a few times, very nice player. But, if you asked any NFL GM if they would take him over Barry Sanders you might find 1 in the whole NFL. I concur there is alot around a great QB, I always find it amusing how Peyton gets credit for audibles at the line but in the old days QBs used to do that all the time. The announcers today need to watch tapes of some of the older QBs.

OJ? Gale Sayers?

My point is great backs are out there that never won the superbowl, I feel that the QB position gets hyped up as "the man" that did it all.

Look at brady for instance in his super bowl run (the first one) he had exactly 1 TD pass the whole Playoffs and superbowl.

Or Vinatari, he is mister "clutch" well the first super bowl he went only 1 for 3.

It is sorta funny how the ESPN/Sports talk Mentality has infiltrated sports in every possible way in every sport.

Till this past year Arod had a better OPS then Jeter in the playoffs but Jeter was clutch. Dwyane Wade can miss every shot at the end of the game for the rest of his life but will be considered "clutch" and a winner for what he did last year in the playoffs (vs pistons and then finals) and the first few years of his career.

I think some of the labels are just over-rated is all specially the coach worship and QB worship in the NFL to a point.

myinnerself
02-13-2007, 10:27 AM
1 Montana
2 Unitas
3 Elway
4 Marino
5 Manning

McGraw
02-13-2007, 10:45 PM
Dan Marino
John Elway
Joe Montana
Brett Farve
Warren Moon

asmitty45
02-15-2007, 12:07 AM
Montana
Elway
Brady
Favre
Unitas

*manning wins another one he cracks the lineup
**Brady wins another one he's the best ever, period.

KCJ58
02-15-2007, 12:08 AM
Otto Graham = #1

jdcozart
02-19-2007, 09:35 PM
No order

Montana
Favre
Manning
Elway
Marino

Philliez01
02-19-2007, 09:38 PM
1a. Unitas
1b. Montana
__________________________

Elway

Marino
Favre

Too many great QBs to make a Top-5 as if you want to go OLD OLD school, we'd have Benny Friedman.

Matthew Jones
02-21-2007, 09:01 PM
1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Dan Marino
4. Johnny Unitas
5. Troy Aikman

bigbluedefense
02-21-2007, 09:11 PM
Wow, we're still talking about this. Id have Montana in at #1 if I didn't view Unitas so highly. I respect what Unitas has done for the game, so I put him at 1A and Montana at 1B.

And for those that knock Montana, youre putting way too much emphasis on measurables. Who cares about measureables. Deacon Jones was drafted in like the 9th round of the draft, and he's the best DE ever. Measureables are overrated.

Montana is arguably the most clutch qb ever, constant winner, won SBs with and without great offensive talent, and proved his worth when he took a KC team to the AFC Championship game. He hardly had the cast he had in SF there, and still made them instant winners. That team had Montana, Allen, an average supporting cast around those 2 offensively, and a good defense. And Marty Schottenheimer. I love Marty, but his playoff resume is well noted, and Montana took him to the AFC Championship game. For him to do that with the talent he had around him was amazing, he wasn't supposed to be in the AFC championship game. Montana was in a purist sense, the best ever. I put Unitas ahead of him because of how he changed the game.

ds8582
02-22-2007, 12:21 PM
Best

1. Montana
2. Marino
3. Favre
4. Manning
5. Elway
6. Brady

KILLERSANTA
02-22-2007, 06:00 PM
Tony Romo :D :D :D