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Paranoidmoonduck
10-16-2007, 07:28 PM
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Can Dorsey, a non-skill position player, be the #1 overall draft pick?


Alright folks, you know the drill. All comments and questions are welcome.

1)Buffalo Bills: Glenn Dorsey, DT, Louisiana State
It isn't often that a defensive tackle combines physical ability with enough production be considered a top five pick, much less the top overall pick, but Dorsey has definitely earned it. As the most visibly dominant player on one of the nation's best defenses, Dorsey has the profile to convince the Bills that he is worth the investment. Joining McCargo on that defensive line with Aaron Schobel would make that Buffalo defense potentially quite scary.
2)St. Louis Rams: Jake Long, OT, Michigan
The Rams present an interesting case, because they are far worse than anyone expected. They have reasonable talent at most of the crucial positions, but the potentially gaping hole at LT should offensive line stalwart Orlando Pace step down anytime soon motivates this pick. It remains to be seen whether Long is a legitimate NFL left tackle, but he is one of the few offensive linemen who would seem capable of filling Pace's giant shoes.
3)Atlanta Falcons: Andre Woodson, QB, Kentucky
It would seem possible that head coach Bobby Petrino might actually prefer Darren McFadden more, so he can establish his power running game, but I think that he'll have a hard time convincing management to pass on a quarterback with Woodson's potential. It doesn't hurt that Woodson has the skills that fit Petrino's pass attack.
4)New York Jets: Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas*
Neither Thomas Jones nor Leon Washington are enough to keep the Jets from pouncing on a high profile talent like McFadden. It seems that New York fully intends to give Kellen Clemens his fair shot, and giving him a runner like McFadden to take the pressure off would go a long way towards the kid's development.
5)Miami Dolphins: Kenny Phillips, S, Miami*
At this point, the Miami Dolphins would be asking themselves which local superstar defender they want more. Campbell is tempting, especially for a defense which has only recorded 8 sacks over it's first 6 games, but as long as they are running a base 3-4 he is a bit of an awkward fit. Phillips gets the nod because of his versatility and playmaking ability, and because that means Renaldo Hill isn't starting anymore.
6)Cincinnati Bengals: Calais Campbell, DE, Miami*
Campbell falls a bit from where some have him projected due to workout numbers that didn't quite live up to the standard set by Mario Williams and Julius Peppers, and the Bengals couldn't be more thrilled. With Justin Smith's return questionable and with a defense that can't seem to generate pressure at all, Campbell would bring a disruptive and imposing presence to a defense that scares no one right now.
7)Chicago Bears: Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College
Maybe this is what the Bears need. Yes, they looks rather poor right now, but no one can deny the already demonstrated potential of the players. Whether the team can perform like they did in 2006 again is unknown, but there's isn't any doubt that the Rex Grossman age is officially over in Chicago. Can the Bears bring themselves to pass on a gutsy (and tall) passer and leave a hole at such an essential position? I say no.
8)New Orleans Saints: Sedrick Ellis, DT, Southern California
This might seems like a bit early for Ellis, but the Saints desperately need a disruptive presence on the inside of that line for their stud defensive ends to get to the quarterback. Generating a pass rush would go a long way towards making that Saints defense respectable, and might help this team make a quick turnaround.
9)Oakland Raiders: Tyson Jackson, DE, Louisiana State*
Oakland's defense has taken a step back this season, and while some of that can be blamed on the lack of Derrick Burgess (and therefore, a pass rush), the major problem that needs addressing is the run defense. Defensive coordinator Rob Ryan loves using defensive linemen who can play inside and out, and Jackson would allow all the more flexibility in lining his guys up.
10) Minnesota Vikings: Ghosder Cherilus, OT, Boston College
I agree with the sentiment that Tavaris Jackson is the man as long as Childress leads that team, so that leaves quarterback out of the picture. With that in mind, I think Minnesota does a smart thing and decides to give stud runner Adrian Peterson the best line they can. Cherilus is a big strong player who would give the Vikings a great run blocker at right tackle.
11) Kansas City Chiefs: Brian Brohm, QB, Louisville
As much as Kansas City seems to want to believe that Brodie Croyle is the future, I think that may very well not be the case come week 17. Herm Edwards is taking a lot of flack for the affect he has had on a once prodigious offense, and I think he decides to draft his own passer to make his vision come to pass. With a defense that has shown major improvement, the Chiefs appear to be an offensive line and a quality passer from being a playoff team.
12) New England Patriots (from San Francisco): Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State*
The first thing I see is New England trying to trade down, but I'm not exactly forseeing a hot market to trade up in this draft due to the lack of many truly stud prospects (translation, I'm lazy and I didn't want to do trades). With that option neatly blocked and with absolutely no sort of inside linebacker warranting a pick this high, the Pats decide to take the top corner on the board. Samuel is not guaranteed to stick around after this year, and the Pats secondary could use some depth anyhow.
13) Detroit Lions: Chris Long, DE, Virginia
This is an very popular pick lately, and for good reason. The Lions need a pass rusher and Long appears at distance to be exactly the kind of hardworking player head coach Rod Marinelli likes to have playing for him. The possibility of this pick will be based heavily on the route Long decides to take in his pre-draft conditioning. If he decides to bulk up and attract teams looking for 3-4 DE then I doubt the Lions pull the trigger, but if Long decides to work on becoming a pass rusher, there's no reason to think he can't be a very good one.
14) Philadelphia Eagles: Ryan Clady, OT, Boise State*
The Eagles definitely could use some offensive line help, but that doesn't answer the question of “who?”. Sam Baker might be the generally higher rated at this point, but Clady is the more physically impressive, could play both sides of the line, and I doubt Philly wants to draft another offensive lineman from USC.
15) Dallas Cowboys (from Cleveland): DeSean Jackson, WR, California*
You see the making of a truly dominant offense in Dallas, but with both Owens and Glenn aging and promising Patrick Crayton not a sure thing to stick around, that passing game might be short on reliable targets fairly soon. Jackson is a flashy pick, but the boost he could provide in the return game and in the passing game playing opposite Owens could make the Cowboys terrifying to opposing defenses.
16) Houston Texans: Sam Baker, OT, Southern California
Okay, so now coach Kubiak has his quarterback of the present and future. I think it's finally time Houston got that left tackle they've been craving. Kubiak's blocking system isn't exactly the best at keeping quarterback's jerseys clean, so adding such a technically sound pass blocker would go a long way towards making that Houston offense formidable.
17) Carolina Panthers: Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma*
I can't possibly imagine that the Panthers are comfortable with David Carr as their future at quarterback, and I think that both Delhomme and Testeverde's days are numbered. However, without a viable player to fill that need, the Panthers are left to try and patch together an offense which can support whoever ends up throwing the ball. The way he plays, you almost would think that Steve Smith doesn't need someone to take the pressure off him, but I think that having a legitimate playmaker opposite him (as opposed to Keary Colbert) would go a long way.
1 Denver Broncos: Keith Rivers, LB, Southern California
Whether the Broncos intend to keep DJ Williams inside and get a replacement outside or target a long term answer at middle linebacker is unknown, but linebacker is definitely a need and they pick up arguably the best one in this draft here. Rivers, who's more suited to play an outside role, would make the Broncos linebacker corps one of the most athletic in the league.
19) Tennessee Titans: Quentin Groves, DE, Auburn
I'm sure the Titans would love to get Vince Young another wide receiver to throw to, but I don't see any good value here, or at least certainly not enough to keep the Titans from picking a player of Moses' potential. With brilliant athleticism and a real knack for reaching the quarterback, Moses would be a huge piece of what is beginning to look like a nice defense in Tennessee.
20) Arizona Cardinals: Justin King, CB, Penn State*
The Cardinal's shift to the 3-4 defense has left them with a general lack of quality man-to-man corners, something they remedy here by taking the athletic King. His ability to stick to receivers will allow that rapidly improving pass rush to cause even more havoc.
21) Washington Redskins: Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida*
I've been expecting the Redskins to draft a pass rusher for three years now, and I think that they finally take care of it with this pick. Even with the resurgence of Andre Carter this season, the Redskins could use another speed rusher of Harvey's athletic ability.
22) New York Giants: Phillip Wheeler, LB, Georgia Tech
Although the team could use a left tackle of the future, I don't exactly see who they would pick here. What's left is the team's need for a playmaking weakside linebacker, and that's where Wheeler comes in. A player who is accustomed to playing multiple spots and assignments, Wheeler would provide a boost to the Giants defense.
23) San Diego Chargers: Reggie Smith, DB, Oklahoma*
The Chargers appear to be on the right track again, but that pass defense is still a little suspect. Smith, a defensive back capable of playing both corner and safety, would give that defense a great deal of flexibility and depth.
24) Seattle Seahawks: Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon
I saw this pick in another mock (I can't remember where), and the more I think about it the more I like it. Shaun Alexander is already 30 and is no longer running behind a dominant offensive line, Mo Morris is obviously on the future at the position, and Stewart is a local state product with a ton of potential and is pretty damn fine value in the late 1st round.
25) Baltimore Ravens: Vernon Gholston, DE/OLB, Ohio State
That Baltimore defense has definitely lost a step since Adalius Thomas left for New England, and I can't think of many better prospects to fill his role than Vernon Gholston. An incredibly strong rusher for his size, Gholston has extensive experience both playing upright and with his hand in the ground.
26) Tampa Bay Buccaneers: DeMario Pressley, DT, North Carolina State
The team hasn't had a true Tampa 2 nosetackle since Booger McFarland freed up blockers for Warren Sapp and company. Pressely is a great physical talent who is a wonderful fit to play the nose for that once storied defense.
27) Jacksonville Jaguars: Lawrence Jackson, DE, Southern California
The Jags defense is playing well, but without a quarterback I felt comfortable plugging in here, I felt it was best to give that defensive line some pass rushing teeth. With the dominant frames of Stroud and Henderson blocking up the middle of that line, Jackson would be free to do what he does best: get after the quarterback.
2 Pittsburgh Steelers: Rey Maualuga, ILB, Southern California
Perhaps a bit low for a player very highly regarded by some, but with discipline issues both on and off the field, Maualuga doesn't have a sterling record and isn't having a particularly dominant season. A perfect fit the Steelers defense, Rey brings an intensity and a hitting power that would do wonders for an already good run defense.
29) San Francisco 49ers (from Indianapolis): Early Doucet, WR, Louisiana State
It wouldn't surprise me to see the Niners go defense, but I think this season has proven that the offense is really the one in need of weapons. Doucet wouldn't be a bad returning gift for the currently injured Alex Smith, although perhaps the Niners would fancy a physical wideout like Oklahoma State's Adarius Bowman.
30) Dallas Cowboys: BJ Raji, NT, Boston College
I expect to hear some comments about this one, but I think it makes sense. Yes, Raji is suspended for the whole year. However, I consider him the only true 3-4 NT with a grade anywhere close to the first day, and perhaps his 6-1 340 lbs. frame will be enough to coax the Cowboys into drafting him.
31) Green Bay Packers: Steve Slaton, RB, West Virginia
I don't think that either Brandon Jackon or Vernand Morency are the long term answer at runningback for the Pack, but I don't think they need to splurge on a feature back either. What they could use, however, is a speed threat to stretch defenses and take pressure off their other two runners. Slaton could be a force in that offense.
32) New England Patriots: (forfeited due to league violations)

Turtlepower
10-16-2007, 07:31 PM
I'm just not sold on Wheeler as a first-rounder right now. Yes, he addresses a need, but I would prefer getting Reggie Smith. =D

Scotty D
10-16-2007, 07:35 PM
Great Lions pick. A lot of us are endorsing him.

thebow305
10-16-2007, 08:09 PM
great miami pick!

NIN1984
10-16-2007, 08:37 PM
Nice new fresh pick for the Raiders, I don't think I have seen that yet. He would be a really good fit for us, but really I would take anyone on the D-line at this point.

foozball
10-16-2007, 08:40 PM
quentin moses was in last years draft...youre thinking of quentin groves

aNYtitan
10-16-2007, 08:57 PM
quentin moses was in last years draft...youre thinking of quentin groves

Exactly what he said. I really don't like the pick because the Titans never use the 3-4 defense and Groves is much better suited for that system. They always have 4 down lineman and Groves is a little undersized to play on the line often. We also have plenty of depth at DE now with KVB, Laboy, Odom, Connovor and Pryce so I really don't believe DE is a need unless Calais Campbell falls all the way to us. I am really intrigued by Ray Mauluga who I think can become a top 5 MLB in the NFL

Apriori
10-16-2007, 09:15 PM
Frankly I'd be extremely surprised if the Falcons take Woodson over Brohm unless Brohm's stock tanks and Woodson's stock soars.

Also, I really don't see Dorsey going #1 because DTs usually see their stock go down before the draft...I don't know why. Think about Ngata, Branch, even Gabe Long...Wasn't the last DT to go #1 (or even in the top 3, 4, or 5) Dan Wilkinson? He wasn't quite a bust but he wasn't dominant, either.

MaddHatter
10-16-2007, 09:38 PM
1a) If the Cowboys pick 15th and DeSean is still there, then it's an easy pick.

1b) If the Cowboys take a WR with 1a, then 1b MUST be a Corner - I love Raji as much as the next NT fanatic, but I don't think he will declare nor is he worth a 1st round pick - if we want him, we trade down to early 2nd and take him. However with Henry and Newman 30+ and injury issues, we need a solid Nickle CB who can be the future shutdown CB opposite Newman

Bills2083
10-16-2007, 09:50 PM
I guess I like the pick. But I dont believe that we are the worst team in football.

This year, I dont really think I want to draft in the top 5. DT is becoming less and less of a problem, Marv and Co. appear to like Edwards, and there are no WRs/CBs worthy of being taken there...

Chucky
10-16-2007, 09:52 PM
im pretty sure Demerio Pressley would be a UT, and hovan is just fine at NT, and haye is playing out of this world at UT, but pressley would still be a decent pick. Lawrence Jackson should also be considered

draftguru151
10-16-2007, 10:47 PM
Looks great, other than the Quentin Moses part, lol. Not sure about the last 2 picks. Raji just seems like too much of a question mark right now but it could happen, just not seeing it. Don't really like Slaton in the first, depends on which of the backs comes out though. Chris Long is a bit iffy there as well for the reasons you mentioned and how much of a fit is he in defense. They have White and Francis fits in the same role as White and they don't really have that speed guy. Maybe they reach a little on a guy like Groves or go with Gholston or Harvey who fit the speed role a bit better. Just and idea though. Love Dorsey going #1.

Crazy_Chris
10-16-2007, 11:27 PM
This is the first mock that i have personally seen with Gosder Cherilus going to the Vikings, but it is dead on and it's an excellent choice. I would be extremely happy if we drafted him next year.

Oaktown1981
10-16-2007, 11:52 PM
Raiders need DL but Chris Long would be a better pick

Paranoidmoonduck
10-17-2007, 12:25 AM
I think I just have Quentin Moses on the mind since I the Raiders cut him. Sorry about that.

Exactly what he said. I really don't like the pick because the Titans never use the 3-4 defense and Groves is much better suited for that system. They always have 4 down lineman and Groves is a little undersized to play on the line often. We also have plenty of depth at DE now with KVB, Laboy, Odom, Connovor and Pryce so I really don't believe DE is a need unless Calais Campbell falls all the way to us. I am really intrigued by Ray Mauluga who I think can become a top 5 MLB in the NFL

Well, I don't necessarily agree that Groves is only a good fit in the 3-4. I think he has some room to grow and would make a fine speed rusher playing in a 4-3, which is something they could use. I didn't really consider giving them a linebacker as I've been fairly impressed with that part of their defense so far this season.

Looks great, other than the Quentin Moses part, lol. Not sure about the last 2 picks. Raji just seems like too much of a question mark right now but it could happen, just not seeing it. Don't really like Slaton in the first, depends on which of the backs comes out though. Chris Long is a bit iffy there as well for the reasons you mentioned and how much of a fit is he in defense. They have White and Francis fits in the same role as White and they don't really have that speed guy. Maybe they reach a little on a guy like Groves or go with Gholston or Harvey who fit the speed role a bit better. Just and idea though. Love Dorsey going #1.

I wasn't entirely sure of the Raji pick, but for now I find it interesting enough to include. The chances of it happening are very low, but I think the Cowboys are a pretty solid team all-around and definitely could use a potential franchise NT (which I think Raji is).

As for the Slaton pick, I only really like him in the first as long as he goes to Green Bay. Players like James Davis or Kevin Smith are tempting, but if the Packers want to run a 2 back system by pairing whoever they draft with Brandon Jackson, I think adding a speedy receiving threat would be a very good. If I was considering Ray Rice, he probably would have landed in that spot, but I don't think he's coming out early.

I don't particularly think it would be a disaster if the Lions ran a larger defensive line considering the talent on it. Long is pretty relentless when he's rushing the passer, and if he works on becoming a speed rusher, I think he'd be more than apt.

Frankly I'd be extremely surprised if the Falcons take Woodson over Brohm unless Brohm's stock tanks and Woodson's stock soars.

I was under the impression that had already started to happen...

Raiders need DL but Chris Long would be a better pick.

While Long is definitely the tempting pick for me to make as a Raider fan, I don't think that Long is a better pick just because Howie is his father. I mean, sure, Al Davis kept Grant Irons around for a damn longer time than he deserved, but I don't think he is going to spend a 1st rounder because the kid has a familiar last name. Jackson is exactly the kind of defender that Rob Ryan loves, and I think he's a better value in the top 10.

Mr. Stiller
10-17-2007, 12:30 AM
Exactly what he said. I really don't like the pick because the Titans never use the 3-4 defense and Groves is much better suited for that system. They always have 4 down lineman and Groves is a little undersized to play on the line often. We also have plenty of depth at DE now with KVB, Laboy, Odom, Connovor and Pryce so I really don't believe DE is a need unless Calais Campbell falls all the way to us. I am really intrigued by Ray Mauluga who I think can become a top 5 MLB in the NFL

With Groves athleticism he could literally be a 4-3 OLB as well. He runs supposedly a 4.46 40'.. thats .2 seconds faster than Keith Rivers and .12 faster than Maualuga.

He could play either OLB spot and contribute as a 3rd down pass rusher.

Caddy
10-17-2007, 03:21 AM
Good Buccaneer pick and you actually backed it up with a quality argument.

BlindSite
10-17-2007, 03:53 AM
2 words, Dwayne Jarrett.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-17-2007, 04:19 AM
2 words, Dwayne Jarrett.

May be enough to stave off picking another wideout, but I still don't think it's all that unlikely. I don't think that the Panthers go for defensive line or linebacker help, there likely won't be much of any safety value, and unless an offensive tackle or quarterback falls into their lap, I'm not sure what else to give them.

Crow
10-17-2007, 04:20 AM
Not to rattle your logic, but...are we certain that Ryan will still be here next year? Or even have Al's/Kiffin's ear on draft day?

We have versatile guys. What we don't have is someone who can get to the QB with any sort of consistency. I couldn't care less how many positions a guy can play if he can't do real damage from just one.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-17-2007, 04:34 AM
Not to rattle your logic, but...are we certain that Ryan will still be here next year? Or even have Al's/Kiffin's ear on draft day?

We have versatile guys. What we don't have is someone who can get to the QB with any sort of consistency. I couldn't care less how many positions a guy can play if he can't do real damage from just one.

Of course, and I wouldn't consider Jackson worth a top 10 pick unless that were the case. However, having a 290+ lb defensive end who can move like Jackson would let us keep Tommy Kelly inside (where he belongs and where he'll replace Sapp) and we could even potentially line the two up next to each other inside on passing downs. I'm beginning to realize that the only way Rob Ryan's defense is going to generate sacks is if we simply get dominant physical players. I do think Jackson is that sort of player.

As for Ryan being a part of the team next April, the only way I don't see it is if he is offered a head coaching job, and that seems fairly unlikely as the Raider defense is nowhere near the level they were at last year. Firing Ryan would be a mistake. Additionally, I wouldn't have chosen Jackson if I didn't think he would attract Al's attention.

Crow
10-17-2007, 04:48 AM
I'm thinking Kelly's best position is primary backup.

I think our defense only looked good last year due to teams not having to play offense against us beyond the 1st or 2nd qtr. We've been terrible uner Ryan every year but last year, and we weren't exactly special last year.

The only reason I could see us drafting a 290lb DE this high would be if we were looking at going 3-4 full time. And if that were the case, I'd just as soon take Groves there.

Now, if you think Jackson is a 10-12 sack guy from RE, then I'm all for it. I don't really feel like that's the case, though.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-17-2007, 05:09 AM
I'm honestly more worried about the ease with which opposing offensive tackles are helping all those runningbacks break outside. I personally like Jackson more in the 4-3, but that just might be me. We really don't need another Derrick Burgess, we need someone who can help control the outside and feed runningbacks inside were there are at least people who can tackle.

Finsfan79
10-17-2007, 09:49 AM
5)Miami Dolphins: Kenny Phillips, S, Miami*
At this point, the Miami Dolphins would be asking themselves which local superstar defender they want more. Campbell is tempting, especially for a defense which has only recorded 8 sacks over it's first 6 games, but as long as they are running a base 3-4 he is a bit of an awkward fit. Phillips gets the nod because of his versatility and playmaking ability, and because that means Renaldo Hill isn't starting anymore.


Good pick if we somehow win a game (doubt we win more then 2 honestly)

Apriori
10-17-2007, 01:09 PM
I was under the impression that had already started to happen...


When I say tank, I don't mean take a few hits like Brohm's stock has, or get more attention like Woodson's stock has. For Petrino to not take Brohm, I'd expect both Brohm to have an involvement with a dogfighting ring discovered and Woodson to find a cure for AIDS.
Brohm stil has tremendous upside and is more polished than Woodson. I don't know Brohm or Petrino, but I'd be willing to bet that they're fairly friendly and for the Petrino to pass up his QB for a different QB of similar talent would be scandalous.

Crow
10-17-2007, 01:33 PM
I'm honestly more worried about the ease with which opposing offensive tackles are helping all those runningbacks break outside. I personally like Jackson more in the 4-3, but that just might be me. We really don't need another Derrick Burgess, we need someone who can help control the outside and feed runningbacks inside were there are at least people who can tackle.
Seems like we didn't have the problems containing the outside run last year that we do now. Kelly and Brayton seemed to do a great job of stringing those outside for Howard to clean up. It appears that we're playing Howard farther off the LOS this year, which is leading to his being unable to prevent backs from turning the corner.

All that said, we have ends who can play the run. We don't have anyone who can get after the QB, which is absolutely painful to witness.

Difference of philosophy, I suppose. Stopping the run is crucial. But if you can't get to the QB, why would offenses even bother trying to run on you?

We're terrible at defending both, so an upgrade anywhere would be welcome. But it seems to me that if we want to get max production from all the high picks we've added to the secondary, a pass rusher is a must. Otherwise, we've wasted a lot of high picks.

Oaktown1981
10-17-2007, 02:50 PM
Long is having a better year than Jackson. I think Long is up to 8 sacks on the season and playing in a 34 defense. I think come April Long will be a top 10 pick.

T-RICH49
10-17-2007, 03:23 PM
give us Sam Baker over Brohm.Has anyone seen the KC OL?If Baker is there he HAS to be the pick

Paranoidmoonduck
10-17-2007, 05:30 PM
Words...

Well, I don't think the only way to get pressure on the quarterback is to draft a bunch of Dwight Freeney/Derrick Burgess clones. There aren't a whole lot of athlete that size who can play every down defensive football, and I'd rather get a guy who has shown very good ability in both aspects of defensive line play.

I think we have considerably more slack with our pass defense, firstly because we have more capable players in our secondary, and secondly because teams will always choose to run first if they can.

HoopsDemon12
10-17-2007, 05:46 PM
I guess I like the pick. But I dont believe that we are the worst team in football.

This year, I dont really think I want to draft in the top 5. DT is becoming less and less of a problem, Marv and Co. appear to like Edwards, and there are no WRs/CBs worthy of being taken there...

ya i think we definatly trade down in that spot.. i dont know i dont really like that first overall position cause to me our need... no one is worth it.. lol it seems the year we are close to getting htat number one overall pick there is no one player really worth it

Crow
10-17-2007, 09:26 PM
Well, I don't think the only way to get pressure on the quarterback is to draft a bunch of Dwight Freeney/Derrick Burgess clones. There aren't a whole lot of athlete that size who can play every down defensive football, and I'd rather get a guy who has shown very good ability in both aspects of defensive line play.
Wouldn't we all? But those guys are few and far between.

I think we have considerably more slack with our pass defense, firstly because we have more capable players in our secondary, and secondly because teams will always choose to run first if they can.

Won't matter what a chooses to do if we can't stop either. Besides, we tend to start games playing decent ball on 1st and 2nd downs. It's those 3rd down passes that have simply killed us on defense.

When it comes right down to it, you can find a run stopping DE anywhere. A pass rusher is a lot harder to get. So, the more of those we can find, the better off we'll be.

Average OT LB
10-17-2007, 10:27 PM
I like the pick for the chargers. By the end of the year it will become clear as to which defensive position needs to be drafted so going with a S/CB now is smart.

However, as JK17 and i like to say, wed like to see the defensive backfield have a chance to grow first. But with that said, odds are D-flo will becme a free agent.

Hines
10-17-2007, 11:19 PM
i really like the steelers pick..great pick..he will bring an emotional, and intensity leader back to the pittsburgh since porter left...i think if he puts it all together, imo he could be better then willis, and i was really really high on willis..

dbtb135
10-18-2007, 05:47 AM
26) Tampa Bay Buccaneers: DeMario Pressley, DT, North Carolina State
The team hasn't had a true Tampa 2 nosetackle since Booger McFarland freed up blockers for Warren Sapp and company. Pressely is a great physical talent who is a wonderful fit to play the nose for that once storied defense.

Say what?!

When Booger played NT, he was between Sapp and Rice. He freed up no one! If anything, it was the other way around. And nose tackle isn't a round 1 priority for the Tampa 2. Yet, Pressley might be a good pick at UT, which is the much more valued DT position.

The pick isn't so bad, but the explanation was what got me. Booger McFarland deserves no more credit than what he got when he was here; little if any. I really did like that you avoided the two most overplayed picks of the past year: McFadden to Dallas and Brohm to Atlanta.

BlindSite
10-18-2007, 05:52 AM
May be enough to stave off picking another wideout, but I still don't think it's all that unlikely. I don't think that the Panthers go for defensive line or linebacker help, there likely won't be much of any safety value, and unless an offensive tackle or quarterback falls into their lap, I'm not sure what else to give them.

Yeah I can see your point and I'd be happy with another receiver, because realistically having a great 3 wide set would really make the offense threatening with the two good running backs and steve smith.

I dunno though, Wharton & Gross are both going to be free agents and peppers will be in the last year of his contract. There's also a couple of other players who's contracts will be up who'll garner some attention.

I don't think we keep two good (nothing special, but solid) tackles and save cap space for the NFL's biggest name defensive end.

Panther's don't mind trading up or down either and IMO QB makes the most sense next year.

Delhomme will be 33 and is coming off a pretty big injury, Carr isn't the future and matt moore is still realistically a UFA project. Taking someone with a lot of potential lower in the draft like Colt Brennan would be a great move. Trade down, pick up some extra picks, take a guy who can sit for two years behind delhomme and be groomed and then pickup a safety and some help at tackle in the second or third rounds.

Matthew Jones
10-18-2007, 05:58 AM
Looks like you put a ton of effort into this! I'd consider you to be one of my favorite three or four posters on the boards and I liked the Patriots pick!

Paranoidmoonduck
10-18-2007, 07:40 PM
Say what?!

When Booger played NT, he was between Sapp and Rice. He freed up no one! If anything, it was the other way around. And nose tackle isn't a round 1 priority for the Tampa 2. Yet, Pressley might be a good pick at UT, which is the much more valued DT position.

You know how the Tampa 2 scheme typically works right? The NT lines up further inside, trying to engage both the center and the closest guard, trying to give the UT a one on one matchup to work with. When Booger played NT and Sapp played UT, Booger freed up Sapp. That was his job, and not even Sapp was above being stymied by a double team.

I haven't been particularly impressed by Hovan at NT this year, but maybe that's just me. If there was a legitimate UT to give Tampa at that spot, I would have gone there, but I think they would jump at the chance to get a perfect fit for the NT in their scheme.

...panthers...

Yeah, I agree with most of what you said, I just didn't see the value for their positions of true need. If I had been doing trades, I might have had them move up for Brohm or perhaps someone like Clady.

dbtb135
10-19-2007, 04:00 AM
You know how the Tampa 2 scheme typically works right?

Kinda condescending to the fanbase who watched how that defense worked since before it became a trend....

The NT lines up further inside, trying to engage both the center and the closest guard, trying to give the UT a one on one matchup to work with. When Booger played NT and Sapp played UT, Booger freed up Sapp. That was his job, and not even Sapp was above being stymied by a double team.

Sapp got double-teamed well into 2003, regardless of where he lined up. And yes, he did line up at times beside Simeon and not in between McFarland and Spires.

Not to mention in the last 5 years Booger was here, the pass rush was best in our Super Bowl season (with Chuck Darby at NT and Booger on IR) and 2005 (with Hovan at NT and Booger playing UT....poorly).

Sapp was stymied as it were, by double teams past his prime (which was around 02). But that doesn't mean that teams didn't continue to double team them, or that Booger freed him up. It doesn't matter one bit where you line up Booger and Sapp, in the early 00s, teams would find a way to double Sapp. They weren't going to let him beat them, and Booger didn't discourage them much. Booger saw some double teams, but they were mostly on run plays as Sapp wasn't the strongest holding up at the point of attack. And when we're talking about "freeing up guys" that usually means the pass rush which Booger never got as much attention as Sapp. As a big Sapp supporter, I can even admit that his double teams late in his Tampa career were probably unwarranted. But they still came with great consistency.

I haven't been particularly impressed by Hovan at NT this year, but maybe that's just me. If there was a legitimate UT to give Tampa at that spot, I would have gone there, but I think they would jump at the chance to get a perfect fit for the NT in their scheme.

Hovan has been solid, not as good as in 05, but solid nonetheless. I don't think they would ever take a NT, however perfect a fit, in round 1. It's just not a priority. They had Sapp, then took McFarland who was extremely athletic coming out of LSU and perceived to be the next UT of Tampa. But he wasn't. We haven't taken a DT first day other than that. Just like DB, it's not a 1st round worthy position given the style we run. We can find guys just like every other Tampa 2 has out there like Indy in Pitcock or Chicago in Dvoracek. But given the position, they aren't going to have dominant pass rush skills. And they aren't going to be 325 lb monsters that the 3-4 values. So why waste a round 1 pick on that area when you can find a balanced, shade over 300 pounder in round 3 as well as you can in round 1? Especially when our pass rush is so poor? Doesn't come close to making any sense.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-19-2007, 04:07 AM
I didn't mean to be condescending.

I personally think that Pressley has is pretty damn close to being a special athlete, and I think he'd definitely be worth the investment by that point in the 1st.

dbtb135
10-19-2007, 08:45 PM
I didn't mean to be condescending.

I personally think that Pressley has is pretty damn close to being a special athlete, and I think he'd definitely be worth the investment by that point in the 1st.

My mistake.

And if Pressley was such a good athlete, we could really use him at UT. We haven't had a legit UT since Sapp left and it's vital to how the defense works.

oldLibid21
10-19-2007, 10:50 PM
if atlanta were to draft a QB, i think petrino would strongly force us to draft brohm. i'd really rather have ryan more than anyone though. oh well