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nvot9
10-16-2007, 07:36 PM
My question is this, do we draft him if he's available by our pick? I mean to be perfectly honest, RB's not a huge huge need. I'd like an RT and DL first and foremost, but considering the Jets have no elusive or big play makers on offense (which is what most successful teams need, the game the Jets play to solely get the first down is not good, we need to be thinking TD on every play) and also considering (shy of ONE game) the combo of Jones and Leon has not impressed me one bit, so I do like this pick, especially if McFadden is all he's supposed to be...I mean our team went downhill when we lost Curtis Martin...any significance?

On a side note, I think Jake Long (converted to RT which is what he should play) or Chris Long or a trade down would be the only other picks I would really like at that spot...

derza222
10-16-2007, 08:10 PM
Depends where our pick is and a lot on where people end up at that point. A guy like Tyson Jackson could be a big riser and I'd definitely take him over McFadden if he is worth a pick at our spot. I wouldn't mind Jake Long even though RT isn't a great value pick right there, but Chris Long doesn't make much sense for us. Word is he's playing at around 265, 270 which is way too light for a 3-4 end. I do like Leon as a back even though he's not perfect he's definitely good in a 1-2 punch and hopefully Jones can continue to stay on a roll after a good week against the Eagles. I do think if we're picking around 5-7 and McFadden is available we'll consider drafting him which I definitely wouldn't mind, but I also would have absolutely no problem to making a trade with a team that wants to shoot up in the draft and grab McFadden...

BroadwayJoe10
10-16-2007, 08:48 PM
It is such a hard choice. I find myself not enjoying seeing that pick in most mocks. But, when i sit down and think about it I really can't be too upset. Granted there are things that I would rather tend to first, but if push comes to shove he is the best player available and if we have the ability to mend both our lines in later picks, than I have no problem with it whatsoever.

nvot9
10-16-2007, 09:18 PM
Mind you, it would also allow us to potentially pick up a second or third round pick for Jones potentially...because we wouldn't need both necessarily.

But I agree it being a difficult choice, a trade might be the best decision at that point because we'd get more than the pick value most likely considering that it's McFadden, but he could be a franchise player and it's tough to pass that up, especially considering we can use a boost at virtually every position.

CannedToast
10-16-2007, 09:27 PM
If we went running back for any first day picks, I'd cry.

BroadwayJoe10
10-16-2007, 09:37 PM
i understand the crying part, that is my initial reaction to this pick everytime i see it. But, if we somehow get a guard in the draft or free agency, RT, definately something on the Dline i mean u can't be too upset with it.

It all depends, if he has a season like AD than i would probably think it was a genius move, but if not than what the F**k where they thinking lol.

CannedToast
10-16-2007, 09:47 PM
Thomas Jones is a top 15 RB in the NFL. We have no RT, *lots* of defensive problems, and guard problems.

We can't afford to go RB early.

TimD
10-16-2007, 10:27 PM
Andre Woodson

BroadwayJoe10
10-16-2007, 10:51 PM
I think qb is the very last thing we address lol, but i enjoy the in-your face type of font, A+ for effort.

The point i was trying to get across about the McFadden pick is this; it wouldn't be my first pick, however IF it happened I honestly couldn't be too upset as long as we still adressed other needs later in the draft and possibly free agency. I agree we could use an upgrade at RT, although i beleive clement has been pretty good at times this year, but mostly inconsitent (ifyou saw clement against strahan he threw him around a couple times, showing he does have the capability). But, from our record and the way things are going, we are going to have a high top 10 pick. I dont beleive in drafting a RT and definately not a guard with such a high pick. Trading down is always a crapshoot considering there has to be someone who wants what we've got and believes that if we dont take it someone above them will. If there isn't a top DE to fit our 3-4 or anyone willing to trade up, McFadden is arguably the best player in this draft and anytime you can pick up the best player in the draft isn't a bad thing. Personally i feel that we can help the Oline in free agency as well as wnd or 3rd rounds. We need dline help, but theres only a few NTs that are gonna be available. The top tier one's will be coming out the following year most likely. Thus, my point was, I would rather trade down and grab Tyson Jackson (or a comprable DE) and a few more picks, but if we couldn't and wound up with Dmac I definately wouldn't be too upset.

CLong4Heisman
10-23-2007, 01:39 PM
If we stick in the 3-4 then I would trade with Dallas, give up the Number 3 pick for 8 and 31( just guessing). Then take Long with 8 and the kid from Kansas with 31.

Crickett
10-23-2007, 04:35 PM
I would be irked if the Jets picked a running back early. It strikes me as to similar to the Bears drafting Cedric Benson early. And as has been mentioned earlier, the Jets have tons of other glaring needs.

hcbrad08
10-24-2007, 03:11 AM
How do you guys feel about Darrell Robertson I saw the GT game and he could be a perfect 34 OLB pass rusher. Let me know what you think I think hes a 2nd round talent and could range anywhere on day one from 1st to 3rd round...We'll see at combine and draft time.

If Trade with Dallas and 5th rounder for Kendall...

1a) Malcom Jenkins CB
1b) Frank Okam DE
2) Barry Richardson RT
3) Darrell Robertson OLB
4) Jordan Grimes LG
5a) Frank Morton NT
5b) Marcus Monk WR
6) Amir Pinnix RB
7) Ernie Wheelwright WR

This would really be a mix of best available per need. Value, yes but I dunno this draft doesn't seem to line up with what we need.

derza222
10-24-2007, 06:56 AM
Okam and Richardson both scare me. They've had attitude issues and I'm just not sure they're the kind of guys we want to take. I've kicked around corner in the first, but just think the value is better for other positions there and thought a guy like Dre Moore (he's going to rise big time) or Quentin Groves is a better fit with that pick. A corner or a guy like Bowman isn't exactly a bad pick there though.

If we traded with Dallas and just got the two firsts we're actually not getting good value out of the deal, they're taking about 150 away from us. They'd probably have to give us their second in exchange for a sixth as well. My take assuming a second instead of a sixth is:

1a. Dre Moore, DE/DT, Maryland
1b. Chris Williams, RT, Vanderbilt
2a. Shawn Crable, OLB, Michigan
2b. DeJuan Tribble, CB, Boston College
3. Kendall Langford, DE, Hampton
4. Jordan Grimes, G, Purdue
5a. Frank Morton, NT, Tulane
5b. Joe Flacco, QB, Delaware
7. Cameron Colvin, WR, Oregon

My opinion is that a couple of guys are going to rise between now and draft day, so if anybody looks higher than you think they should go thats probably why.

Crickett
10-24-2007, 11:39 AM
How do you guys feel about Darrell Robertson I saw the GT game and he could be a perfect 34 OLB pass rusher. Let me know what you think I think hes a 2nd round talent and could range anywhere on day one from 1st to 3rd round...We'll see at combine and draft time.

If Trade with Dallas and 5th rounder for Kendall...

1a) Malcom Jenkins CB
1b) Frank Okam DE
2) Barry Richardson RT
3) Darrell Robertson OLB
4) Jordan Grimes LG
5a) Frank Morton NT
5b) Marcus Monk WR
6) Amir Pinnix RB
7) Ernie Wheelwright WR

This would really be a mix of best available per need. Value, yes but I dunno this draft doesn't seem to line up with what we need.

1a and 1b? :confused:

While we're talking about "how do you guys feel about", how do you guys feel about Kenny Phillips? Erik Coleman hasn't been resigned yet after all.

derza222
10-24-2007, 12:37 PM
1a and 1b? :confused:

While we're talking about "how do you guys feel about", how do you guys feel about Kenny Phillips? Erik Coleman hasn't been resigned yet after all.

He's assuming we trade down with Dallas and pick up their two firsts...

I don't really mind Kenny Phillips, though I think he may be a bit overrated right now. If we're picking somewhere in the 6-10 range I'd like the pick a lot more than at 4, but it may be better than grabbing a running back as many have us doing right now. Not sure if the team plans on starting Eric Smith, but if not safety is definitely an area of need that will have to get addressed this draft. Perhaps we take a look at Courtney Greene of Rutgers if he leaves this year, and Reggie Smith of Oklahoma is a CB/S tweener that I think would fit pretty nicely next to Rhodes. I think having a guy with good cover skills next to him would allow Rhodes to really roam around the field and confuse offenses, blitz, drop back into coverage, and do a bunch of different things to keep teams off balance.

nvot9
10-24-2007, 04:22 PM
I really hope we don't get Frank Okam, and why would we spend a first rounder on a CB again?

619
10-24-2007, 04:28 PM
after AD fell all the way to 7th last year i dont think teams this year will make the same mistake and i could really see the jets surpassing other more pressing needs to take this BIG playmaker. plus he would come to the media capital of the world..it just seems to fit together so well.

derza222
10-24-2007, 04:39 PM
I really hope we don't get Frank Okam, and why would we spend a first rounder on a CB again?

I'm with you on Okam, definitely don't want him. And I guess I could see maybe spending a first rounder on a corner if there's no better front 7 guy on the board and the value for RT isn't that good, but I'd hesitate to at this point. Obviously it's very far from draft day though, so I won't say we won't. It would be nice to have a solid number 2 to pair with Revis, and our corner play has been terrible this year. That said, I think we can find somebody in the second or third round.

after AD fell all the way to 7th last year i dont think teams this year will make the same mistake and i could really see the jets surpassing other more pressing needs to take this BIG playmaker. plus he would come to the media capital of the world..it just seems to fit together so well.

Maybe, I'm just not positive we will. I think it's more likely that we'll take advantage of other team's desire for him and trade down. The fit just isn't there, and I don't think he's nearly as sure of a thing as Peterson was as a player, though he doesn't have the injury issues. But I think McFadden busting is more likely than I thought Peterson busting was, by a long shot.

nvot9
10-27-2007, 10:03 PM
I've just been watching some film on him lately, and it's made me very much more in favor of getting him. Obviously DL is still a primary need and I think Chris Long is our ideal pick, at the same time, McFadden looks everything like Peterson right now. I mean he runs with extreme power and explosiveness, he's got amongst the best vision I've ever seen out of an RB, he's elusive with good foot work, he's ridiculously fast, he's a multifaceted tool (can be used as a wide out or a QB in a trick play), I mean he's a stud, and I think he'd much better suit our offense than Jones does..

derza222
10-27-2007, 11:43 PM
I've just been watching some film on him lately, and it's made me very much more in favor of getting him. Obviously DL is still a primary need and I think Chris Long is our ideal pick, at the same time, McFadden looks everything like Peterson right now. I mean he runs with extreme power and explosiveness, he's got amongst the best vision I've ever seen out of an RB, he's elusive with good foot work, he's ridiculously fast, he's a multifaceted tool (can be used as a wide out or a QB in a trick play), I mean he's a stud, and I think he'd much better suit our offense than Jones does..

The one thing that worries me is that the few clips I've seen of him, I haven't seen him break all that many tackles. It seems like on all of his long runs he pretty much finds a crease and just blows by the defense untouched. But the fact that he's been so successful in the SEC, a conference that's very hard to run in, and with a very poor supporting cats makes me feel a little better.

And just for the record, I don't see why anyone thinks Chris Long is our ideal pick. He's way too small to play 3-4 end...

BroadwayJoe10
10-28-2007, 12:12 AM
The one thing that worries me is that the few clips I've seen of him, I haven't seen him break all that many tackles. It seems like on all of his long runs he pretty much finds a crease and just blows by the defense untouched. But the fact that he's been so successful in the SEC, a conference that's very hard to run in, and with a very poor supporting cats makes me feel a little better.

And just for the record, I don't see why anyone thinks Chris Long is our ideal pick. He's way too small to play 3-4 end...

Yaa i feel ya bro, I dont understand why everyone thinks he is such a great pick. I mean I love the guy, plays with a lot of heart, but he is just flat out too small. I've heard people saying that Shaun Ellis is too small and he is 6'5 285ish. If anything i want a guy in the mold of Tyson Jackson.

Anywayss, from the games I've seen Dmac breaks plenty of tackles. They prolly just don't show it on the clips because its far more impressive to see the guy hit a hole and just out run everyone. But he can lower his shoulder and bring the hammer, which I love. That is why if we somehow merit 2 1st rounders I really wouldn't be too upset to get him. I mean i know there are plenty other picks we could go for, but I can't say I would be mad if we got the best player in the draft.

derza222
10-28-2007, 12:25 AM
Yaa i feel ya bro, I dont understand why everyone thinks he is such a great pick. I mean I love the guy, plays with a lot of heart, but he is just flat out too small. I've heard people saying that Shaun Ellis is too small and he is 6'5 285ish. If anything i want a guy in the mold of Tyson Jackson.

Anywayss, from the games I've seen Dmac breaks plenty of tackles. They prolly just don't show it on the clips because its far more impressive to see the guy hit a hole and just out run everyone. But he can lower his shoulder and bring the hammer, which I love. That is why if we somehow merit 2 1st rounders I really wouldn't be too upset to get him. I mean i know there are plenty other picks we could go for, but I can't say I would be mad if we got the best player in the draft.

Personally, I'd love taking McFadden it if we got a mid-first round pick and took Dre Moore. I think the guy has the potential to be an absolute stud as a 3-4 end. A tiny big shorter than you'd like at 6'4, and it really is a very slight difference from ideal, but he's 311 with great strength and solid athleticism, possessing a solid vertical (he's hit 34 inches, which is ridiculous at that weight) and a rumored 4.8-4.9 second forty, again ridiculous at his size. He's got the speed and athleticism to get after the quarterback a bit with some polishing, and the strength and size to take up blockers and be a good run stuffer, something we NEED desperately. Also potentially could put on some weight and play nose. I love, love Moore and really hope we go after him. He's the defensive lineman I want in the first for us right now.

nvot9
10-28-2007, 09:17 AM
Here's my feeling on Long. I don't think it's size that qualifies you as a good player...in any position. I think Vilma is maybe TOO small for the 3-4 only because it's by such a large margin, it's not as if Chris Long is a 260 lbs DE, he is and can play at around 280. I think what qualifies you as a good 3-4 DE is if you can be a force against the run and if you can assume multiple blockers, and I think Long can do that...he does that know, he also rushes the QB often, because he's able to not only absorb multiple blockers, but get around them too. I honestly, whole heartedly think that talent is overrated in certain instances. If you have the motor and tenacity that Long does, all you need is the slightest talent (and believe me he's got more than the slightest talent) and you can achieve anything...

derza222
10-28-2007, 10:23 AM
Here's my feeling on Long. I don't think it's size that qualifies you as a good player...in any position. I think Vilma is maybe TOO small for the 3-4 only because it's by such a large margin, it's not as if Chris Long is a 260 lbs DE, he is and can play at around 280. I think what qualifies you as a good 3-4 DE is if you can be a force against the run and if you can assume multiple blockers, and I think Long can do that...he does that know, he also rushes the QB often, because he's able to not only absorb multiple blockers, but get around them too. I honestly, whole heartedly think that talent is overrated in certain instances. If you have the motor and tenacity that Long does, all you need is the slightest talent (and believe me he's got more than the slightest talent) and you can achieve anything...

I think this view is slightly idealistic. It's nice, but fact of the matter is you need to be big to play in a 3-4. The Patriots have one of the best 3-4 defensive fronts (hate to bring them up, but its true) and they have two converted tackles playing end. Long, in reality, is around 265, 270 from what I've heard. You can find people in multiple threads who think so, and it is likely that he's playing at a bit of a lighter weight now. And even if he isn't, if he's at 280 he's better off dropping some weight and running a good 40 time because there's more 4-3 teams in the draft than 3-4 teams. But regardless, though it's true that sometimes guys can overcome their lack of size, at certain times and positions it just doesn't work as well. I happen to think that both defensive and offensive lines are part of those problems. For example, a guy like Vilma can overcome his size when he has a defensive line in front of him to keep offensive linemen off him. I think it is going to be similar. When you tell me you have a quick, 280 lb end that hustles and has fantastic technique, I think he's a great 4-3 end prospect. The fact of the matter is having those huge guys out there is great for taking up blockers in the run game, and while Long does have that ability I don't think he's going to be able to do it every play. Our run defense is terrible, and I just think we need bigger, run stuffing bodies to help that, Long won't do much. Now would he be fantastic on passing downs? Sure. But you don't take a guy with a top 5 pick so you can play him in obvious passing situations. That's just my take. There's only so much in our defense that he can do that we really need with his lack of size, and it's probably in his best interest to get even lighter anyways.