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Scott Wright
10-17-2007, 06:56 AM
Hey,

I updated the Heisman Watch and there is yet another new #1. Lots of changes once again.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com

MaddHatter
10-17-2007, 07:39 AM
Interesting...

I like Ryan as an NFL prospect, but think that Woodson has been a much better NCAA QB and should be leading the hesiman race after McFadden's horrible performance. Then again, when you play Arkansas, what else you do you play against?

I'm a bit suprised DeSean Jackson is out of the top 10, but WR's never win anyway so it's a mute point. However, I agree that Colt is way too high and it's sad that there isn't enough talent this year to warrant a solid Top 3, let alone a solid Top 5

NYGibril28
10-17-2007, 07:45 AM
D-Mac is still to high.

RyanLeaf#1
10-17-2007, 09:06 AM
Andre Woodson 9th and Colt Brennan 4th? Have you watched a Kentucky game or a Hawaii game all season? Woodson is definitely top 5 right now.

RyanLeaf#1
10-17-2007, 09:07 AM
D-Mac is still to high.

I Totally agree with you.

NYGibril28
10-17-2007, 09:20 AM
Andre Woodson 9th and Colt Brennan 4th? Have you watched a Kentucky game or a Hawaii game all season? Woodson is definitely top 5 right now.

I think that's the 10/10 version. It goes:

Matt Ryan
Andre Woodson
Tim Tebow
Darren McFadden
Colt Brenna
Mike Hart
Dennis Dixon
Sam Bradford
Matt Grothe
Chase Daniel
Graham Harrell

foozball
10-17-2007, 09:22 AM
with south florida's success, i think DE George Selvie has to be on that list. 21.5 TFL and 11.5 sacks...he's been a dominant force all season.

8 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 QH, and 1 sack against West Virginia

4 tackles, 3.5 TFL, 3 QH, and 1.5 sacks against Auburn

Apriori
10-17-2007, 09:48 AM
Mike Hart?
His worst game so far, he had 106 yards and a touchdown.
974 consecutive touches without a lost fumble.
The way they're playing, Michigan has a shot at the Big 10 title.

McFadden...
His worst game so far, he had 43 yards.
He fumbles.
His team isn't a factor in the SEC.
He's averaging 0.2 more YPC than Hart.

I understand that Matt Ryan is the flavor of the month right now, but when it comes down to it Hart has played at a high level and carried his team since his freshman year and nobody else on the list can say that. He's the leading rusher of the most prestigious program in all of college football (and even if you disagree with that, you have to put U-M at #2)

Fox Sports (#1), ESPN (#2), USA Today (#2), SI (#2), and the Sporting News (#3) all have Hart in the top 3. So why isn't he getting any respect here?

BuckNaked
10-17-2007, 02:16 PM
Take Brennan out of the top 5 and replace him with Hart.

SuperKevin
10-17-2007, 02:19 PM
I agree 100% with Ryan at the top of the list. Historically the Qb of a top 3 program has the inside track. BC has a great chance of ending up in the top 3

RyanLeaf#1
10-17-2007, 02:19 PM
Take Brennan out of the top 5 and replace him with Hart.

I find it funny that Hart isnt in his top 5 and Brennan is. Maybe Scott didnt watch football this past weekend or for that maybe he hasnt watched Mike Hart at all this season. Hart has a legit chance at winning the Heisman.

D-Unit
10-17-2007, 02:39 PM
HA HA HA HA HA in the face of all Brennan haters!

RyanLeaf#1
10-17-2007, 02:42 PM
HA HA HA HA HA in the face of all Brennan haters!

Why is anything in anyones face.... Its not like these are actually the people who vote for the Heisman. Its Scotts rankings which mean nothing more then me or you posting our rankings.

D-Unit
10-17-2007, 03:04 PM
Why is anything in anyones face.... Its not like these are actually the people who vote for the Heisman. Its Scotts rankings which mean nothing more then me or you posting our rankings.
IN YOUR FACE CAUSE I KNOW IT BURNS YOU BAD! LMAO.

BuckNaked
10-17-2007, 03:05 PM
IN YOUR FACE CAUSE I KNOW IT BURNS YOU BAD! LMAO.

Was that meant to be funny?

Sniper
10-17-2007, 03:05 PM
I find it funny that Hart isnt in his top 5 and Brennan is. Maybe Scott didnt watch football this past weekend or for that maybe he hasnt watched Mike Hart at all this season. Hart has a legit chance at winning the Heisman.

This is so ******* ridiculous. I guess Brennan's 9 picks in 2 games don't mean **** then? His awesome 2:1 TD/INT ratio must be what does it then right? Well, Chad Henne is currently rocking the same ratio, so better put him at 5. Meanwhile, Mike Hart could run for 500 yards and 8 TDs in the next game and there would be some dumb ******* ******** reason not to put him in the top 5, even though everyone else has him in theirs. Matt Ryan hasn't done jack against anyone good, but he's a great flavor of the month guy. McFadden's stellar 17 carry, 43 yard, 0 TD game must have been the thing to give him the edge over Mike's 21 carry, 106 yard, 2 TD (one of them highlight reel) one half game. Had to be.

D-Unit
10-17-2007, 03:16 PM
This is so ******* ridiculous. I guess Brennan's 9 picks in 2 games don't mean **** then? His awesome 2:1 TD/INT ratio must be what does it then right? Well, Chad Henne is currently rocking the same ratio, so better put him at 5. Meanwhile, Mike Hart could run for 500 yards and 8 TDs in the next game and there would be some dumb ******* ******** reason not to put him in the top 5, even though everyone else has him in theirs. Matt Ryan hasn't done jack against anyone good, but he's a great flavor of the month guy. McFadden's stellar 17 carry, 43 yard, 0 TD game must have been the thing to give him the edge over Mike's 21 carry, 106 yard, 2 TD (one of them highlight reel) one half game. Had to be.
It cracks me up that you're so mad. :D Pretty silly.

D-Unit
10-17-2007, 03:17 PM
Was that meant to be funny?
It's funny to me cause I don't think he's in the race at ALL!!! HAHAHAHA!

Apriori
10-17-2007, 03:23 PM
It's funny to me cause I don't think he's in the race at ALL!!! HAHAHAHA!

This is after Brennan marched Hawaii into San Diego State or whatever and massacred them (by 7 points, in OT) on national TV?

Sniper
10-17-2007, 03:23 PM
It cracks me up that you're so mad. :D Pretty silly.

Pretty silly for Colt Brennan to be even mentioned in anyone's Heisman races. Especially since this was made AFTER he threw 9 picks against the School of the Blind and University for the Mentally Slow, really kind of brings into question the credibility of such a Heisman Watch. If ANY other QB in the country threw 9 picks in 2 games, they would get KILLED in the media. But because Colt Brennan plays for some schlub school with a goofy pass-happy system and a schedule that would make Penn State's Out of Conference Schedule blush, it's ok.

And the 2007 Heisman Trophy Goes to......

Colt Brennan! He of the 52 TD and 36 INT! Yay!

D-Unit
10-17-2007, 03:24 PM
This is after Brennan marched Hawaii into San Diego State or whatever and massacred them (by 7 points, in OT) on national TV?
I know what he's capable of, and I'm proud of him, but I dont' think he's America's Heisman.

OhioState
10-17-2007, 03:30 PM
HA HA HA HA HA in the face of all Brennan haters!

um yur an idiot

georgiafan
10-17-2007, 03:33 PM
I'm not a mike hart fan at all, but I don't see how he is rated lower then Brennan

HoopsDemon12
10-17-2007, 04:10 PM
with south florida's success, i think DE George Selvie has to be on that list. 21.5 TFL and 11.5 sacks...he's been a dominant force all season.

8 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 QH, and 1 sack against West Virginia

4 tackles, 3.5 TFL, 3 QH, and 1.5 sacks against Auburn

You would have to have like 35 sacks for a DE to basiaclly even be in teh running for this thing now a days

foozball
10-17-2007, 04:25 PM
i dunno man...21.5 TFL in half a season is very dang impressive. he'll probably end up with around 17-18 sacks and 30 TFL, but for now, i believe he should be on that list.

Sniper
10-17-2007, 04:27 PM
You would have to have like 35 sacks for a DE to basiaclly even be in teh running for this thing now a days

For a defensive player, you need to make a contribution on offense too. Charles Woodson was a sick shutdown corner in college and came up with big plays on defense, but he also dabbled at return man and receiver. For example, in the Ohio State game that year, he had a pick in the red zone, a huge ~30 yard catch that was almost a TD if it weren't for Antoine Winfield, and also a huge PR for TD. That game clinched it for him, but I can guarantee if he didn't play any O Peyton Manning would have won. It's just too hard for voters to ignore the offensive side of the ball.

HoopsDemon12
10-17-2007, 04:43 PM
I really think thats unfair considering offensive players dont need to play defence to get consideration... it should be best player regardless of side of the ball but i guess teh glory positions of RB and QB will forever rule these awards

Sniper
10-17-2007, 05:23 PM
I really think thats unfair considering offensive players dont need to play defence to get consideration... it should be best player regardless of side of the ball but i guess teh glory positions of RB and QB will forever rule these awards

I agree, but it's the way it is. For example, if we were doing this as the BEST PLAYER, not best QB/RB on a great team, well I did this in another thread earlier, but anyway, my vote would look something like this.

1. Jake Long, OT, Michigan
2. Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU
3. Mike Hart, RB, Michigan
4. George Selvie, DE, South Florida
5. J Leman, LB, Illinois (the guy is so good, just a tackling machine)

HoopsDemon12
10-17-2007, 05:29 PM
I agree, but it's the way it is. For example, if we were doing this as the BEST PLAYER, not best QB/RB on a great team, well I did this in another thread earlier, but anyway, my vote would look something like this.

1. Jake Long, OT, Michigan
2. Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU
3. Mike Hart, RB, Michigan
4. George Selvie, DE, South Florida
5. J Leman, LB, Illinois (the guy is so good, just a tackling machine)

My list would actaully look a lot like yours.. though i would have Ben Moffit and Phil Loadholt up near the top there aswell

ironman4579
10-17-2007, 06:38 PM
I really find it hard to comprehend Mike Hart not in the top 5. Before the reason was that "well, Michigan has 2 losses" yet now Arkansas has 3 losses, McFadden just got held to less than 50 yards, and somehow he's still ahead of Hart? And not just ahead, but 2 spots ahead? And how is Brennan still ahead of Hart. I actually think Brennan is better than some people give him credit for, but he hasn't played exceptionally well this year. IMO, there's no way Hart should not be at the very minimum in the top 5. That top 5 is very weak.

Sniper
10-17-2007, 08:04 PM
I really find it hard to comprehend Mike Hart not in the top 5. Before the reason was that "well, Michigan has 2 losses" yet now Arkansas has 3 losses, McFadden just got held to less than 50 yards, and somehow he's still ahead of Hart? And not just ahead, but 2 spots ahead? And how is Brennan still ahead of Hart. I actually think Brennan is better than some people give him credit for, but he hasn't played exceptionally well this year. IMO, there's no way Hart should not be at the very minimum in the top 5. That top 5 is very weak.

McFadden's 2nd place finish is helping him I guess, though it shouldn't. And it's not like Mike sucked in the 2 games Michigan lost.

soybean
10-17-2007, 08:18 PM
mike hart sucks.

RyanLeaf#1
10-17-2007, 08:19 PM
mike hart sucks.

I know your just saying that to get Sniper mad. You dont really think that do you?

Sniper
10-17-2007, 08:22 PM
mike hart sucks.

Careful soy, saying a player sucks will get you an infraction around these parts.

Chaucer
10-17-2007, 08:24 PM
Im surprised you didn't leave Desean Jackson in your top5. I mean he has had 4 unimpressive weeks already so I didn't think another one with about .2 YPC would really hurt him.

I like where D-mac is too. He has been much more impressive than Mike Hart running against 2 of the worst run defense in the nation statistically. I mean who can argue against him beinging about Hart when hes dominating him in YPC by like .3... He just needs like 250 yards his next game to catch up to Hart. He should get it easy with the way he ran the ball against Auburn.

Oh, and Jake Long deserves no where near #1 on Snipers list. He has underperformed this year and hasn't dominated nearly enough to be the best player in the nation.

I do sense a complete and utter vaccuum in the space between your auricles.

Sniper
10-17-2007, 08:26 PM
Im surprised you didn't leave Desean Jackson in your top5. I mean he has had 4 unimpressive weeks already so I didn't think another one with about .2 YPC would really hurt him.

I like where D-mac is too. He has been much more impressive than Mike Hart running against 2 of the worst run defense in the nation statistically. I mean who can argue against him beinging about Hart when hes dominating him in YPC by like .3... He just needs like 250 yards his next game to catch up to Hart. He should get it easy with the way he ran the ball against Auburn.

Oh, and Jake Long deserves no where near #1 on Snipers list. He has underperformed this year and hasn't dominated nearly enough to be the best player in the nation.

I do sense a complete and utter vaccuum in the space between your auricles.

Greatest......post.......ever...and definitely sig worthy

P-L
10-17-2007, 08:59 PM
Yeah, Hart should be in the top five. Then again, Scott is a Notre Dame fan...

(Just kidding, of course)

RyanLeaf#1
10-17-2007, 09:16 PM
Yeah, Hart should be in the top five. Then again, Scott is a Notre Dame fan...

(Just kidding, of course)

Im a diehard Notre Dame fan, but Mike Hart is in the top 5.

D-Unit
10-19-2007, 03:57 AM
Heisman Top 10 (This week)

1. Andre Woodson
2. Ray Rice
3. Darren McFadden
4. Matt Ryan
5. Mike Hart

6. Sam Bradford
7. Dennis Dixon
8. Tim Tebow
9. Todd Boeckman
10. Graham Harrell

Sniper
10-19-2007, 09:41 AM
Heisman Top 10 (This week)

1. Andre Woodson
2. Ray Rice
3. Darren McFadden
4. Matt Ryan
5. Mike Hart

6. Sam Bradford
7. Dennis Dixon
8. Tim Tebow
9. Todd Boeckman
10. Graham Harrell

How are Rice and McFadden ahead of Hart? I suppose McFadden's studly 43 yards did it for you?

D-Unit
10-19-2007, 01:04 PM
How are Rice and McFadden ahead of Hart? I suppose McFadden's studly 43 yards did it for you?
Rutgers upset with Rice going off did it for me. This week momentum is high.

...and McFadden is just a better RB than Hart. Heisman is supposed to go to the best player in the nation.

Sniper
10-19-2007, 01:10 PM
Rutgers upset with Rice going off did it for me. This week momentum is high.

...and McFadden is just a better RB than Hart. Heisman is supposed to go to the best player in the nation.

And as we all know, that's always the case. If that was really true, we'd be talking about Glenn Dorsey, George Selvie and Jake Long.

D-Unit
10-19-2007, 01:21 PM
And as we all know, that's always the case. If that was really true, we'd be talking about Glenn Dorsey, George Selvie and Jake Long.
...and we all know linemen will never win the award either.

BuckNaked
10-19-2007, 02:00 PM
Rice was pretty awful at the Maryland game.

D-Unit
10-19-2007, 02:03 PM
Rice was pretty awful at the Maryland game.
136 total yards on 25 touches and 1 TD against Maryland was bad?

Sniper
10-19-2007, 02:04 PM
...and we all know linemen will never win the award either.

Well you said it's supposed to go to the best player.

D-Unit
10-19-2007, 02:08 PM
Well you said it's supposed to go to the best player.
Yeah, and McFadden is better than the linemen you listed as well... so?

BuckNaked
10-19-2007, 02:11 PM
136 total yards on 25 touches and 1 TD against Maryland was bad?

Did he really get 136 yards? I was at the game, and he didn't look like anything even close to resembling a heisman candidate.

Sniper
10-19-2007, 03:25 PM
Yeah, and McFadden is better than the linemen you listed as well... so?

You've gotta be ******* kidding me

D-Unit
10-19-2007, 03:26 PM
You've gotta be ******* kidding me
How can you argue with opinion?

scottyboy
10-19-2007, 03:32 PM
yay yay for Ray Ray :D. unless he just goes off like crazy the rest of the year, i dont think he wins it(i think it's Andre) but it's possible. if he can run all over WVA, and we all know he'll go bananas at louisville, there's a chance

ironman4579
10-19-2007, 07:05 PM
I think D-Unit just does that to see us Michigan fans freak out a bit. I'm on to you now buddy!! :P

D-Unit
10-19-2007, 07:10 PM
I think D-Unit just does that to see us Michigan fans freak out a bit. I'm on to you now buddy!! :P
I have him at #5. Not even Scott has that. It's like anything other than #1 makes you guys freak out. Gee ma neez!

ironman4579
10-19-2007, 07:20 PM
No, personally, I don't really mind the overall spot you have him at, based on Michigan 2 losses. However, I really don't see Rice ahead of Hart. I understand what you're saying with momentum and all, I just really don't see Rice ahead of Hart at this point. If we're talking about who actually has a better realistic shot of winning it at this point, I wouldn't put McFadden ahead of Hart either. Not saying he's not a better running back, but those 3 losses are going to hurt him, and that sub 50 yard performance coupled with those 3 losses has probably dropped him quite far back. But that's just my opinion of what the voters might be currently thinking, and I have no trouble admitting that I tend to look at some things through Maize and Blue colored glasses.

D-Unit
10-19-2007, 07:25 PM
No, personally, I don't really mind the overall spot you have him at, based on Michigan 2 losses. However, I really don't see Rice ahead of Hart. I understand what you're saying with momentum and all, I just really don't see Rice ahead of Hart at this point. If we're talking about who actually has a better realistic shot of winning it at this point, I wouldn't put McFadden ahead of Hart either. Not saying he's not a better running back, but those 3 losses are going to hurt him, and that sub 50 yard performance coupled with those 3 losses has probably dropped him quite far back. But that's just my opinion of what the voters might be currently thinking, and I have no trouble admitting that I tend to look at some things through Maize and Blue colored glasses.
Why not Rice? He is second in the nation in rushing behind Hart, but he actually averages more per carry. Considering the OL he's running behind compared to Hart's that's huge. ...and anytime a team upsets the #2 team in nation on national tv riding the coattails of a RB that went off for 181 yards... IMO, he deserves as much pub for the Heisman as anyone. He's also shown to be a better receiver than Hart.

The only advantage I see Hart having over Rice is the so called "big time program" label. But Michigan sucks this year, so their not so big time. At least not as big time as Hawaii. :D

scottyboy
10-19-2007, 07:26 PM
Why not Rice? He is second in the nation in rushing behind Hart, but he actually averages more per carry. Considering the OL he's running behind compared to Hart's that's huge. ...and anytime a team upsets the #2 team in nation on national tv riding the coattails of a RB that went off for 181 yards... IMO, he deserves as much pub for the Heisman as anyone. He's also shown to be a better receiver than Hart.

The only advantage I see Hart having over Rice is the so called "big time program" label. But Michigan sucks this year, so their not so big time. At least not as big time as Hawaii. :D

i love you...

but i dont get the OL comment, Ru's OL is one of the top in the nation

Sniper
10-19-2007, 07:29 PM
i love you...

but i dont get the OL comment, Ru's OL is one of the top in the nation

And they play nobody...that's good on D...And our OL isn't that great, Jake Long is. Boren, McAvoy and Schilling aren't great. Schilling is good but not outerwordly. Boren sucks and McAvoy is a third stringer

Sniper
10-19-2007, 07:37 PM
How can you argue with opinion?

When it's the opinion of the guy who thinks Colt Brennan is the greatest thing since sliced bread and claims a hurt ankle is the direct cause of him sucking and throwing 4 picks, there's a whole lot to argue with

ironman4579
10-19-2007, 07:43 PM
Why not Rice? He is second in the nation in rushing behind Hart, but he actually averages more per carry. Considering the OL he's running behind compared to Hart's that's huge. ...and anytime a team upsets the #2 team in nation on national tv riding the coattails of a RB that went off for 181 yards... IMO, he deserves as much pub for the Heisman as anyone. He's also shown to be a better receiver than Hart.

The only advantage I see Hart having over Rice is the so called "big time program" label. But Michigan sucks this year, so their not so big time. At least not as big time as Hawaii. :D

Actually, Rice doesn't average more per carry than Hart. As a matter of fact, Hart's YPC is closer to McFadden's right now than Rice's is to Hart. According to ESPN.com as well as Rutgers and Michigan's websites.

Mike Hart
7 games, 200 carries, 1078 yards, 5.4 YPC, 12 TD's

Ray Rice
7 games, 204 carries, 999 yards, 4.9 YPC, 13 TD's

Hart has a better YPC actually. I would also say the OL thing is a little off. Michigan has Jake Long, but really who else? Schilling has played alright as a freshman at RT, but otherwise, nobody's really special. Rutgers has one of the better overall lines in the nation right now, with at least a couple All American candidates. I'd also make a case that Hart has played the far superior defenses.

I would also contest the receiving thing. Certainly this season, Hart hasn't really caught many passes. But as a freshman he caught 26 passes for 237 yards, as a soph 16 for 154, and as a junior 17 for 125. This is the first season in which Rice has caught more than 10 passes and had more than 100 yards receiving. Rice may be getting more looks and passes thrown his way, but I certainly wouldn't say he's proven to be a better receiver.

As a matter of fact, even if you factor in total yardage, Hart still a better yards per touch average at 5.4 to 5.3.

Sniper
10-19-2007, 07:45 PM
Actually, Rice doesn't average more per carry than Hart. As a matter of fact, Hart's YPC is closer to McFadden's right now than Rice's is to Hart. According to ESPN.com as well as Rutgers and Michigan's websites.

Mike Hart
7 games, 200 carries, 1078 yards, 5.4 YPC, 12 TD's

Ray Rice
7 games, 204 carries, 999 yards, 4.9 YPC, 13 TD's

Hart has a better YPC actually. I would also say the OL thing is a little off. Michigan has Jake Long, but really who else? Schilling has played alright as a freshman at RT, but otherwise, nobody's really special. Rutgers has one of the better overall lines in the nation right now, with at least a couple All American candidates. I'd also make a case that Hart has played the far superior defenses.

I would also contest the receiving thing. Certainly this season, Hart hasn't really caught many passes. But as a freshman he caught 26 passes for 237 yards, as a soph 16 for 154, and as a junior 17 for 125. This is the first season in which Rice has caught more than 10 passes and had more than 100 yards receiving. Rice may be getting more looks and passes thrown his way, but I certainly wouldn't say he's proven to be a better receiver.

As a matter of fact, even if you factor in total yardage, Hart still a better yards per touch average at 5.4 to 5.3.

Ironman>D-Unit

JT Jag
10-19-2007, 11:32 PM
You know, I actually feel bad for Brian Brohm.

201/297 (67.7%) for 2765 yards, 23 to 4 TDs and INTs.

Louisville lost to UConn, and if that team wasn't such a steaming turd, he'd be a serious Heisman contender. He's a pro-style QB who has more yards, more touchdowns, a better completion percentage and a better yards per attempt then Andre Woodson.

P-L
10-19-2007, 11:41 PM
I wouldn't exactly call Louisville's offense a pro-style offense. It isn't a "system offense" like Hawaii or Texas Tech, but it's not a pro-style offense that you'd find in say the Big Ten or SEC.

D-Unit
10-20-2007, 01:56 AM
Actually, Rice doesn't average more per carry than Hart. As a matter of fact, Hart's YPC is closer to McFadden's right now than Rice's is to Hart. According to ESPN.com as well as Rutgers and Michigan's websites.

Mike Hart
7 games, 200 carries, 1078 yards, 5.4 YPC, 12 TD's

Ray Rice
7 games, 204 carries, 999 yards, 4.9 YPC, 13 TD's

Hart has a better YPC actually. I would also say the OL thing is a little off. Michigan has Jake Long, but really who else? Schilling has played alright as a freshman at RT, but otherwise, nobody's really special. Rutgers has one of the better overall lines in the nation right now, with at least a couple All American candidates. I'd also make a case that Hart has played the far superior defenses.

I would also contest the receiving thing. Certainly this season, Hart hasn't really caught many passes. But as a freshman he caught 26 passes for 237 yards, as a soph 16 for 154, and as a junior 17 for 125. This is the first season in which Rice has caught more than 10 passes and had more than 100 yards receiving. Rice may be getting more looks and passes thrown his way, but I certainly wouldn't say he's proven to be a better receiver.

As a matter of fact, even if you factor in total yardage, Hart still a better yards per touch average at 5.4 to 5.3.
Pretty good response. I can respect that. Anytime a guy backs up his stand with cold hard facts, I can always accept that. It's when guys like Sniper put out homer opinions.... THAT never commands anything more than a pffft from me.

But look at the case you're trying to build. A .5 difference in YPC and a .1 difference in YPT. Not real convincing at all... but you are right, Hart is leading Rice by that margin. Not really significant enough to prove a point, imo.

Again though, the reason I have Rice ahead of Hart is because of the South Florida upset that rode on his coattails. Michigan doesn't have a signature win like that this year so far, so so far Hart is still below Rice in my rankings. ...I don't care if there is a .5 difference in YPC.

The receiving thing... I'm not and I don't think the nation is either basing the Heisman rankings off years past. Fact of the matter is Rice is catching the ball a lot more than Hart this year. We're not analyzing the two as pro prospects so I wouldn't consider looking at past stats to prove receiving ability and who's better than who.

...and just for Sniper... D-Unit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sniper. LOL.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-20-2007, 08:49 AM
You know, I actually feel bad for Brian Brohm.

201/297 (67.7%) for 2765 yards, 23 to 4 TDs and INTs.

Louisville lost to UConn, and if that team wasn't such a steaming turd, he'd be a serious Heisman contender. He's a pro-style QB who has more yards, more touchdowns, a better completion percentage and a better yards per attempt then Andre Woodson.

Yeah but I actually as the leader of that team put the blame on Brian Brohm for that loss last night, this was one game you can't blame the defense on. Brohm made some nice throws here and there but ultimately it was him and his 2 INT's and lack of production that led to their loss. He even had a chance to win it at the end but couldn't and while they are having a terrific season UCONN isn't exactly a national powerhouse.

Xiomera
10-20-2007, 09:24 AM
Can anyone tell me why Mike Hart is behind Darren McFadden in every single Heisman poll I see?

ironman4579
10-20-2007, 10:53 AM
Pretty good response. I can respect that. Anytime a guy backs up his stand with cold hard facts, I can always accept that. It's when guys like Sniper put out homer opinions.... THAT never commands anything more than a pffft from me.

But look at the case you're trying to build. A .5 difference in YPC and a .1 difference in YPT. Not real convincing at all... but you are right, Hart is leading Rice by that margin. Not really significant enough to prove a point, imo.

Again though, the reason I have Rice ahead of Hart is because of the South Florida upset that rode on his coattails. Michigan doesn't have a signature win like that this year so far, so so far Hart is still below Rice in my rankings. ...I don't care if there is a .5 difference in YPC.

The receiving thing... I'm not and I don't think the nation is either basing the Heisman rankings off years past. Fact of the matter is Rice is catching the ball a lot more than Hart this year. We're not analyzing the two as pro prospects so I wouldn't consider looking at past stats to prove receiving ability and who's better than who.

...and just for Sniper... D-Unit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sniper. LOL.

I see where you're coming from with the signature win. I'm sure that you're right about that having an effect on voters, especially with it being a Thursday night game with no other games on, so pretty much everyone's watching it. The question is, if SFU loses a couple more games, would that still be a big win? I think everyone knew that Penn State was ranked way too high at #10 when Michigan beat them. Unfortunately for Mike, I think App State will always be seen a Michigan's signature loss unless they can win out and beat Ohio State.

And with everything I've said so far, if Mike doesn't play today versus Illinois, or only plays sparingly, or has a bad game, or Michigan loses this game or any of the rest, I would say that realistically his chances at the heisman would not be very good.

CC
10-20-2007, 12:36 PM
Can anyone tell me why Mike Hart is behind Darren McFadden in every single Heisman poll I see?

Not so, http://cfn.scout.com/2/692354.html

If Hart guts it out tonight and plays at all, it could be a Willis Reed type effort.
Obviously Michigan needs to keep winning as well.

People are starting to come around.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6576/bildelu3.jpg

BuckNaked
10-20-2007, 03:37 PM
Not so, http://cfn.scout.com/2/692354.html

If Hart guts it out tonight and plays at all, it could be a Willis Reed type effort.
Obviously Michigan needs to keep winning as well.

People are starting to come around.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6576/bildelu3.jpg

I can't respect that opinion when it has Brennan over Woodson.

yo123
10-20-2007, 04:43 PM
Can anyone tell me why Mike Hart is behind Darren McFadden in every single Heisman poll I see?



Because McFadden had more preseason hype, I dont agree with it at all though. If Michigan was as good as they were projected to be, Hart would be running away with this right now. I think he should probably win it anyway.

D-Unit
10-20-2007, 05:58 PM
I see where you're coming from with the signature win. I'm sure that you're right about that having an effect on voters, especially with it being a Thursday night game with no other games on, so pretty much everyone's watching it. The question is, if SFU loses a couple more games, would that still be a big win? I think everyone knew that Penn State was ranked way too high at #10 when Michigan beat them. Unfortunately for Mike, I think App State will always be seen a Michigan's signature loss unless they can win out and beat Ohio State.

And with everything I've said so far, if Mike doesn't play today versus Illinois, or only plays sparingly, or has a bad game, or Michigan loses this game or any of the rest, I would say that realistically his chances at the heisman would not be very good.
The rankings I put up were not a prediction. There were "as is" rankings. There will obviously be shifting from week to week.

ironman4579
10-20-2007, 06:07 PM
The rankings I put up were not a prediction. There were "as is" rankings. There will obviously be shifting from week to week.

Yea, I kind of realized that after, although then I think McFadden was a little high following a loss and a sub 50 yard performance. But that's neither here nor there. As I said, if Michigan loses another game, save possibly a very close loss to a #1 Ohio State team in which Hart racks up massive numbers, then I see little to no chance he wins the heisman.

jballa838
10-20-2007, 06:23 PM
This is Tebow's now .
Lock it up.

Chaucer
10-20-2007, 06:42 PM
Deasan Jackson had a decent day for once. I think he should move up to 1 or 2 possibly when you compare his past rankings and performances.

ironman4579
10-20-2007, 06:46 PM
Deasan Jackson had a decent day for once. I think he should move up to 1 or 2 possibly when you compare his past rankings and performances.

I was stunned by this and preparing a nice little rant when I remembered your earlier post.

Chaucer
10-20-2007, 06:47 PM
I was stunned by this and preparing a nice little rant when I remembered your earlier post. I'm not allowed to rant anymore.

ironman4579
10-20-2007, 06:52 PM
I'm not allowed to rant anymore.

Ah, schizophrenic. Gotcha

JagHombre22
10-20-2007, 07:02 PM
Tebow is no question, the heisman frontrunner now...

ironman4579
10-20-2007, 07:04 PM
Mike Hart is in street clothes and will not play tonight. I'm very sad.

fenikz
10-20-2007, 07:23 PM
As long as Tebow doesn't get hurt and as long as Florida doesn't lose any more games Tebow is the Hiesman winner, lock it up.


He has Georgia(Away), Vandy(Home), S. Carolina(Away), FAU(Home), FSU(Home)

Chaucer
10-20-2007, 07:23 PM
Ah, schizophrenic. Gotcha Some important people don't like to be wrong.

adschofield
10-20-2007, 07:31 PM
Where's the love for Todd Reesing, 18 TD's and 4 INT's, plus he's the quarterback of the undeafeated Jayhawks...All I'm asking for is an honorable mention :D

D-Unit
10-20-2007, 07:48 PM
Yea, I kind of realized that after, although then I think McFadden was a little high following a loss and a sub 50 yard performance. But that's neither here nor there. As I said, if Michigan loses another game, save possibly a very close loss to a #1 Ohio State team in which Hart racks up massive numbers, then I see little to no chance he wins the heisman.
McFadden's game put him down from #1. He's been consistent and strong all year outside of that game.

ironman4579
10-20-2007, 08:26 PM
Some important people don't like to be wrong.

That is very true.

D-Unit
10-20-2007, 08:41 PM
Some important people don't like to be wrong.
Some important people are never wrong.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-20-2007, 08:53 PM
As long as Tebow doesn't get hurt and as long as Florida doesn't lose any more games Tebow is the Hiesman winner, lock it up.


He has Georgia(Away), Vandy(Home), S. Carolina(Away), FAU(Home), FSU(Home)


I honestly think Florida can lose another 2-3 games and he'd still win it, he has that hype and with no one person stepping up I see the voters swaying to him no matter what.

duckseason
10-20-2007, 09:01 PM
I honestly think Florida can lose another 2-3 games and he'd still win it, he has that hype and with no one person stepping up I see the voters swaying to him no matter what.

Nah if they lose 2 more games it's doubtful he'd have a shot at all. People like to attribute wins and losses to the QB, and heismans go to winners like Torretta and Wuerffel. We've still got half a season to go. There will be others who step up. Most of the big games have yet to be played. This race has yet to hit the home stretch where things will really take shape and become clear.

JagHombre22
10-20-2007, 09:09 PM
just about all of Florida's big games have been played and he's played amazing in all of the "big" games...South Carolina and FSU could be considered big games...but Tebow does have so much hype surrounding him, I don't see how he could not win it...unless he gets hurt of course...

SuperKevin
10-20-2007, 09:11 PM
If Tim Tebow wins it this year, anyone think he'd be the favorite to win next year and be the 1st repeat Heisman Trophy winner since Archie Griffin?

duckseason
10-20-2007, 09:12 PM
just about all of Florida's big games have been played and he's played amazing in all of the "big" games...South Carolina and FSU could be considered big games...but Tebow does have so much hype surrounding him, I don't see how he could not win it...unless he gets hurt of course...

Yeah I'm talking about most of the big games in all of college football. You know, the games that determine who wins the heisman. Voters have a "what have you done for me lately" mentality.

Apriori
10-20-2007, 09:12 PM
Tebow is hard to argue against but I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall victim to the Larry Fitzgerald-patented sophomore Heisman block.

duckseason
10-20-2007, 09:14 PM
If Tim Tebow wins it this year, anyone think he'd be the favorite to win next year and be the 1st repeat Heisman Trophy winner since Archie Griffin?

Yeah he'd be the favorite for sure, but the odds would definitely be against a repeat. I wouldn't doubt him though. A great player in a great system on a big stage = trophies. Tebow is a special player.

duckseason
10-20-2007, 09:19 PM
Tebow is hard to argue against but I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall victim to the Larry Fitzgerald-patented sophomore Heisman block.

Had Fitzgerald played for a team like Florida, I think he would have won it. He got robbed, but I think it had more to do with his being a WR for Pittsburgh than being a sophomore. Everybody was all over White's nuts that year, and it was still a close vote.

bored of education
10-20-2007, 10:57 PM
Chris Wells

V. Young
10-20-2007, 11:42 PM
J stew is getting in the race after tonight. My man was awesome! I love my ducks. I live right by the stadium got my season ticks. yeah baby. I was sitting by a dick husky fan who I just about knocked out but j stew did it for me on the field, guy left right after j stews last run. haha

BuckNaked
10-20-2007, 11:53 PM
Andre Woodson should thank his defense for probably not giving him a chance to win the Heisman now. He threw for over 400 yards and 5 TD's, yet Kentucky's defense couldn't defend the pass and couldnt tackle. And now Tebow is the frontrunner. Oh god do I hate him.

soybean
10-21-2007, 12:14 AM
Scott even called it last year before we knew anything about tebow as a quarterback. He said that either tebow would have a heisman or he wouldn't be surprised to see tebow have a heisman before his career is up.

RyanLeaf#1
10-22-2007, 07:53 PM
Andre Woodson should thank his defense for probably not giving him a chance to win the Heisman now. He threw for over 400 yards and 5 TD's, yet Kentucky's defense couldn't defend the pass and couldnt tackle. And now Tebow is the frontrunner. Oh god do I hate him.

You aint kidding they are some good numbers right there, and because Kentucky dont know how to tackle his chances are very slim.

Iamcanadian
10-22-2007, 10:34 PM
Andre Woodson should thank his defense for probably not giving him a chance to win the Heisman now. He threw for over 400 yards and 5 TD's, yet Kentucky's defense couldn't defend the pass and couldnt tackle. And now Tebow is the frontrunner. Oh god do I hate him.

If I had a vote, I'd vote for Woodson. Kentucky has nowhere near the athletic talent of other SEC schools but Woodson keeps them in every game.
People seem to forget that the Heisman is usually given to a player who has had a good career not just one above average season.