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TACKLE
10-21-2007, 03:17 PM
Which of these RB's do you think will get drafted first? Who should get drafted first? Both are undersized backs with good but not great speed. But both have been very productive. Mike Hart is a bit more proven but Ray Rice may have more upside. I can see a team like the Packers possibly taking one of these guys late in the 1st round.

VoteLynnSwan
10-21-2007, 03:26 PM
i'd love to have Mike Hart... i think he's gonna be a solid pro, he never fumbles, and he'd be great for the Bears.

P-L
10-21-2007, 03:27 PM
They are very similar players. They're both 5'9" (Hart is 190 and Rice is 200) and have average speed (4.55-ish). Both are being run into the ground at their respective programs. Hart's biggest knock is the mileage he has on him, but if Rice stays for his senior year he is on pace for more carries. I think the best case scenario for both is late 2nd/early 3rd.

D-Unit
10-21-2007, 03:31 PM
They are both used very heavily so teams will be wary of their mileage.

I like Ray Rice a lot more. Just a tougher runner imo. Nasty stiff arm. More shifty. Love his balance. Showcasing better receiving skills this year.

That said, Hart will be drafted ahead of Rice, imo.

ironman4579
10-21-2007, 03:32 PM
According to Michigan's website, Mike is actually listed at 202 PL. I'd be willing to bet that's actually pretty close to right. I've said it many times, I like both of them, but based on measurables, I agree with PL that best case for them both is probably late second/early third. As for who I like more, it's Hart, but I'm a Michigan guy, and this debate always ends up divided along Rutgers/Michigan fan lines.

scottyboy
10-21-2007, 03:42 PM
Ray Rice may be the sweetest player of all time. But Hart never fumbles. I also dont see Ray Rice coming out this year.

ironman4579
10-21-2007, 03:44 PM
I honestly think Rice would be stupid to come out this year depending on what other junior backs declare. He could conceivably have alot less competition in the draft next year.

Nerv
10-21-2007, 04:53 PM
Mike Hart is an awesome blocker as well, havent really paid attention to Rice in pass protection but blitzers do not get past Mike Hart when he stays in to block. In the Oregon game when Michigan was getting destroyed & Hart was ticked off he completely decked a 260lb DE and knocked him backwards on a block.

ironman4579
10-21-2007, 05:32 PM
This is what Mel Kiper had to say about Mike Hart recently(not insider, don't worry)

"In the scouting profession, we always like to find players who, pound for pound, are the best at their position. At the top of my list is Michigan senior Mike Hart. The deceptively strong 5-foot-8, 200-pound running back has enjoyed a phenomenal career in Ann Arbor.

At the Big House against Purdue, Hart ran effectively with the ball in his hands; but what consistently gets your attention is the way he gets the job done as a blocker in blitz pickup situations. In this area, he has few peers.

Against the Boilermakers, Hart ran for 102 yards on 21 carries -- all with two minutes to go in the first half. He also had touchdown runs of 11 and 9 yards. On his 21st carry, Hart was sidelined with an ankle injury and never returned to the field. As college football fans, let's hope he's ready to go Saturday at Illinois.

Hart's durability and dependability amaze me. To see him limp off the field Saturday was a rarity. So far in 2007, he has carried the ball 200 times, with 30 carries or more in games against Northwestern, Penn State and Notre Dame. Hart already has surpassed 1,000 yards, is averaging 5.4 yards per carry and has 12 touchdowns.

Hart is only 5-foot-8 and lacks big-time speed, so it would be easy to label him as just another great collegiate running back with so-so NFL potential. However, I don't believe that's the case. With his versatility, tremendous desire to excel and unmatched consistency from week to week, Hart is not only one of the top five Heisman candidates at this point but also a very good NFL prospect who should figure to be a first-day selection."

Although I think both might come in at a hair over 5'9", rather than the 5'8" Kiper is saying, And I don't know much about Rice's blocking ability, I think that the first paragraph and the last paragraph are good descriptions of both players. I still like Hart more, but again, I never claimed not to be a homer.

P-L
10-21-2007, 06:15 PM
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see both Hart and Rice measure in at 5'8".

foozball
10-21-2007, 09:53 PM
there are some players, who despite their physical measurables, just get the job done no matter what. both hart and rice are those type of players.

TitanHope
10-21-2007, 10:32 PM
I love Mike Hart. No pun intended, but he has the most heart I've seen out of a collegiate player this year. During the Oregon game, I believe, he got hurt and was walking off the field, and then suddenly stopped his replacement Minor from coming onto the feild and pointed him to go back to the sideline. The next play, a LB or DE came in unblocked and Mike ran up and decked him in the chest with his hands, not dive at his legs to get him on the ground, and his block stopped the defender in his tracks! He did that while being hurt! Somebody mentioned his pass blocking skills, which are very good. Not to mention, you can't argue with the production. Rice is no slouch though, and probably has the higher ceiling. But with Hart, you know you're getting a solid RB who never fumbles, is extremely durable, and is a great leader. I'd take him over Rice as of right now.

josh07039
10-21-2007, 10:35 PM
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see both Hart and Rice measure in at 5'8".
I actually wouldn't be surprised if rice were close to 5'7. Ive stood pretty close to him, and he is really short. However, I am a really terrible judge of height.

evershot
10-21-2007, 11:39 PM
Any team that has a ZBS running attack would benefit from drafting Hart.

Hart's instincts in a ZBS is what makes him a great NFL prospect.

Sniper
10-22-2007, 12:52 AM
I love Mike Hart. No pun intended, but he has the most heart I've seen out of a collegiate player this year. During the Oregon game, I believe, he got hurt and was walking off the field, and then suddenly stopped his replacement Minor from coming onto the feild and pointed him to go back to the sideline. The next play, a LB or DE came in unblocked and Mike ran up and decked him in the chest with his hands, not dive at his legs to get him on the ground, and his block stopped the defender in his tracks! He did that while being hurt! Somebody mentioned his pass blocking skills, which are very good. Not to mention, you can't argue with the production. Rice is no slouch though, and probably has the higher ceiling. But with Hart, you know you're getting a solid RB who never fumbles, is extremely durable, and is a great leader. I'd take him over Rice as of right now.

One of the most BAMF plays I've seen in a while this side of Tim Tebow.

I can't believe we only have 5 games left with that little guy :( It's gonna be so damn weird watching someone else carry the ball 46,781 times per game.

But back to the question.

Size: Wash
Speed: Rice
Vision: Hart
Pass Protection: Hart
Receiving: Rice (Hart CAN catch, they just never throw him the ball)
Ball Security: Hart
Balance: Hart
Shiftiness: Hart

I give the edge to Hart in a lot of categories (yeah I'm a homer shoot me) but it's not a huge edge. Rice isn't far behind in those categories.

Jonny
10-22-2007, 02:01 AM
I actually wouldn't be surprised if rice were close to 5'7. Ive stood pretty close to him, and he is really short. However, I am a really terrible judge of height.

I agree on this. I also think he'll declare.

There's also power, and Rice has a ton of power for such a small guy. He has great vision and has been great in pass protection, those have to be washes if not in favor of Rice. Rice also is great in ball security. Both fumbles this year have been from helmet on ball hits.

I'm a fan of both players. Neither is likely a first rounder, but age and slightly more athleticism likely make Rice a higher pick.

EvilMonkey
10-22-2007, 02:14 AM
Mike Hart for me, reasons why were pretty much stated by everyone else.
I'll just add my favortie Mike Hart career stat: 950 carries - 0 fumbles

D-Unit
10-22-2007, 02:36 AM
What's interesting is that Hart is looked upon as a late first/second round guy and Rice is like a 3rd-4th round or later guy and we're comparing the two.

Sniper
10-22-2007, 09:34 AM
Mike Hart for me, reasons why were pretty much stated by everyone else.
I'll just add my favortie Mike Hart career stat: 950 carries - 0 fumbles

That's the amount of carries since his last lost fumble. He lost one his freshman year, and that's been it. He's fumbled maybe two more times since then but it's been recovered by Michigan every time. But it's still unreal

Sniper
10-22-2007, 09:34 AM
What's interesting is that Hart is looked upon as a late first/second round guy and Rice is like a 3rd-4th round or later guy and we're comparing the two.

There's no way Hart goes in the first round. I have him as late 2, early 3.

Xiomera
10-22-2007, 12:57 PM
We had this exact same debate about two weeks ago in this forum.

D-Unit
10-22-2007, 01:23 PM
There's no way Hart goes in the first round. I have him as late 2, early 3.
Well you should hear Mel Kiper talk about him. According to Kiper, Hart is the best thing since sliced bread.

Nerv
10-22-2007, 01:37 PM
Well you should hear Mel Kiper talk about him. According to Kiper, Hart is the best thing since sliced bread.

Mike Hart is a demi-god, hadnt you heard?

Xiomera
10-22-2007, 01:50 PM
Well you should hear Mel Kiper talk about him. According to Kiper, Hart is the best thing since sliced bread.

No, Hart is the best thing since the thing that was best before sliced bread was the best. No one ever seems to talk about that . . . always so focused on the bread . . .

But seriously, Hart is gonna be a successful pro RB. Teams will fall in love with him for his pass protection abilities alone.

Sniper
10-22-2007, 02:12 PM
Well you should hear Mel Kiper talk about him. According to Kiper, Hart is the best thing since sliced bread.

Mike Hart is better than sliced bread. And he is not a demi-god. Mike Hart is God.

D-Unit
10-22-2007, 02:16 PM
Mike Hart is better than sliced bread. And he is not a demi-god. Mike Hart is God.
C'mon now. I expect better from you. Raise your expectations. Mike Hart is at the very least God's God.

Sniper
10-22-2007, 02:18 PM
C'mon now. I expect better from you. Raise your expectations. Mike Hart is at the very least God's God.

Colt Brennan's pissed that you cheated on him with Mike Hart ;)

Memorex
10-22-2007, 02:49 PM
i'd love to have Mike Hart... i think he's gonna be a solid pro, he never fumbles, and he'd be great for the Bears.

Don't they already have an undersized back in Garrett Wolfe?

scottyboy
10-22-2007, 04:00 PM
i dont see why people would think Ray Ray would come out this year, unless RU wins the big east and wins the BCS bowl(pretty sure it's orange?) than he comes out. but there's no real feel to say he's def. staying or no doubt coming out. and the one big edge that RIce has over Hart, is that Hart is a mortal

Sniper
10-22-2007, 04:23 PM
and the one big edge that Hart has over Rice, is that Rice is a mortal

Yes, I agree ;)

D-Unit
10-22-2007, 04:24 PM
One thing Mike Hart can't get away from...

He's UGLY.

Sniper
10-22-2007, 04:28 PM
One thing Mike Hart can't get away from...

He's UGLY.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WcKWF2X2kK0

Maybe, but Ray Rice can't do everything Hart does ;)

D-Unit
10-22-2007, 04:37 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WcKWF2X2kK0

Maybe, but Ray Rice can't do everything Hart does ;)
Damn he's UGLY!

Michigan
10-22-2007, 04:51 PM
lol mike hart saves the whales in full pads and helmet