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View Full Version : Vilma out for the season?


BroadwayJoe10
10-24-2007, 07:23 PM
I know there have been a few new threads, but I felt this is absolutely huge news. It was just taken from rotoworld;

The New York Daily News reports ILB Jonathan Vilma may be in danger of missing the rest of the season due to a "significant" knee injury.
In an odd back-and-forth between Vilma and Eric Mangini, the coach has said his star inside linebacker is hurt, while Vilma himself denies he's injured at all. Vilma only rotated in during the second half of New York's Week 7 loss. He may have been playing through a torn or partially torn ligament in the knee. Rookie David Harris will join the starting linuep while Vilma is out.

I can't beleive that mangini would bench the defensive captain for the rest of the season for talking out about his non-injury. I can't really get a grasp on this.

TimD
10-24-2007, 07:55 PM
I smell Hugh Douglas all over again. Parcells gets rid of an elite player because he doesn't fit the system, and it seems as if Mangini is going to do the same (possibly twice with DRobertson)

Bills2083
10-24-2007, 08:04 PM
Thats interesting. If they put him on IR, is he allowed to be traded?

Zim3031
10-24-2007, 08:05 PM
Wow, even if we want to trade him, which I believe Tannenbaum will in the offseason, a bad knee injury would be awful for his trade value.

bigbluedefense
10-24-2007, 08:10 PM
Id be willing to give the Giants 1st rounder for him. I think he's better than any LB available in this draft, and he's young, so Id do that trade in a heartbeat.

CannedToast
10-24-2007, 08:11 PM
I'm so sick of being a damn Jets fan, lately. If it wasn't for Coles, Vilma, Cotchery and Rhodes, I'd be gone. And now, apparently, Vilma is closer to being gone, and Coles was talking about retiring last off season. ******* Jets.

BroadwayJoe10
10-24-2007, 08:26 PM
Yaa, to me itd be like mattingly coming in and getting rid of jeter becuase he has no range anymore. Not quite to that extent, but i hate the idea of getting rid of a superstar, a very young superstar for a pick that could be nothing. The farthest place that i would ever move vilma would be to strong safety. Personally i dont see why he couldn't play it. But anyways, I just think there would be a huge fallout of jets fans if mangini got rid of vilma, not so much drob. Not so much at all with drob for me haha.

CannedToast
10-24-2007, 08:31 PM
I really don't care at all about D-Rob. But, honestly, if we not only trade Vilma, but treat him like **** on the way out... I don't even know what I'll do, but I definitely won't have any good thoughts left for Tangini.

BroadwayJoe10
10-24-2007, 09:05 PM
I hope tommorrow that there is a report saying all reports came back negative, becuase if there isnt something structurally wrong with his knee there is no way vilma could keep his mouth shut about that, nor would I expect him to. Anyways, I hope its just a rumor and he'll play the rest of the year and years to come on the jets.

nvot9
10-24-2007, 09:57 PM
Are you sure that Mangini is benching Vilma for speaking out about his injury, and not for the simple fact that well, he's injured? I have a tough time believing that this is true...time will tell I guess, thanks for the heads up..

BroadwayJoe10
10-24-2007, 10:06 PM
Well he didn't bench him in the game because ha hadn't had the time to speak out until after the game. That having been said, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea of mangini saying vilma has an injury without him actually having one. THe only thing i can think of is he was trying to make an excuse so the media did jump all over the fact he wasn't playing and possibly falling out of grace with the media and then trade rumors start all over. I guess only those two will really know, but like you said only time will tell.

AlexDown
10-25-2007, 10:50 AM
I don't see news of this anywhere at all....

bsaza2358
10-25-2007, 10:53 AM
I don't even see the Rotoworld post you're speaking of. Interesting development.

bsaza2358
10-25-2007, 10:58 AM
I just talked to my friend who is a huge Jets fan. He has confirmed that Vilma is now on IR and out for the season. Announced today on the radio.

AlexDown
10-25-2007, 01:25 PM
Still no report on ESPN. I figured that it would be on there by now if its real.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
10-25-2007, 02:31 PM
i've seen it posted also that he is done for the season with a knee injury. This is the first i've heard about the Mangini thing, but if it's true i will be angered beyond belief. i'm going to hold judgement right now, but the simple fact regardless is that Mangini needs to get his head out of his ass and do some decent coaching. Stop being a dick and go to what your strengths are. Sick of it!!

How big is Mangini's ego?? anyone?

jets rooter
10-25-2007, 04:59 PM
the jets will have to move hobson[where he really belongs] inside.paired with harris.the outside linebackers would be thomas and barton.I think that that lineup would succeed without losing a beat.bench robertson and sign grady jackson.he would be a big plus over robertson at nose tackle.next years draft would be a different story.the jets should draft shawn crable o.l.b in the second round to replace barton.

derza222
10-25-2007, 05:02 PM
Not sure about Grady Jackson because he is old and out of shape, but that is actually exactly, EXACTLY what I want to do with the linebackers if Vilma is seriously injured or we get rid of him for some reason.

BroadwayJoe10
10-25-2007, 07:26 PM
that is absolutely what i have wanted to do with him for a while, as im sure i think a lot of people on here have mentioned. I honestly would love to see vilma try his hand as a SS but that could just be me. I know grady jackson is outta shape and reknown for being lazy, but he could be a good stop gap for atleast this year and maybe next. With pouha as a backup who has somewhat impressed a few times this year, i mean he couldn't do much worse than drob, that would allow us to trade Drob and wait until Raji comes out the following year or someone else. Time will tell what happens, but this could let us see a lot more of harris than we previously would have, as well as maybe let the staff know that hobson is better inside than out.

hcbrad08
10-25-2007, 08:50 PM
This story is very real... I haven't heard the radio reports that he is out for the season just that season ending surgury may be an option. I don't know why people are so upset about this...I love Vilma, but really this is the best scenario for his mismatch with our defense. BC he's injured we now have a reason to trade him other than he doesnt fit...now mangini and can remain stubborn as opposed to tweaking the defense to suit a player who does not fit at all. I think there are a handful of teams who need ILBs who would say: Rookie or 25 year old who is a proven beast in 4-3 coming off of knee surgury? (which is becomming more and more routine...people have some surguries and come back a few weeks later) I'll go Vilma. So I could see a buyer in the 1st round but at the very least the Jets may be able to get a high 2nd rounder.

Also, I've started developing a enmity toward Vilma bc he goes on radio shows and talks about the superbowl and probowl about his under armor commercials and until kerry rhodes started coming up he was the most hollywood on our team and still is the most boisterous about it. I don't like guys who aren't team players and I know vilma is a good team player and leader on the field but in the offseason he is one of the many NFL players who goes to miami to train as opposed to training with the team something Ive never been a fan of. I like Vilmas playmaking and ability to make up for his size in the 43 with speed instincts and power but hes no longer our guy. He's gone and now the Jets may be able to settle for a sstop gap measure such as Grady Jackson and backup Pouha while trading Drob to a team needing a one gap DT in a 43 until Raji comes out bc with bigger LBs the defense will work more efficiently. For those who talk about Jacksons age and laziness i point to keith traylor whos like 94 years old and would be more effective in our system now at the tail end of his career than D-Rob would be even on pass rushing downs. (exagerrated but true in essence) I would welcome those moves offseason trades of DRob Vilma and a signing of Grady Jackson bc of the lack of a true quality NT in the draft.

VILMA AS A JET-RIP Ill be routing for whoever you play with unless its the patriots

genom
10-26-2007, 10:12 AM
Sadly, our defense is about to get much much better. I've always been a huge fan of Vilma, but unfortunately he is rendered absolutely useless in this system. i think our defense will improve drastically with free agency and the draft.

CannedToast
10-26-2007, 11:00 AM
What the hell are you talking about. Vilma has been playing very well for someone with a guard on him 50% of the time.

genom
10-26-2007, 11:43 AM
What the hell are you talking about. Vilma has been playing very well for someone with a guard on him 50% of the time.

Vilma has had a guard on him more than 50 percent of the time. And that right there is the exact problem he can neither shed or avoid blocks and thus he is useless in this system..

CannedToast
10-26-2007, 11:51 AM
Vilma has had a guard on him more than 50 percent of the time. And that right there is the exact problem he can neither shed or avoid blocks and thus he is useless in this system..

The goal of the system isn't to have a guard on a ILB... the goal of the system is to have a huge NT and two big DE's who could normally take up double teams.

Vilma has still played bloody brilliant in coverage, and made some amazing tackles and plays. We're definitely not going to be any better on defense because we've lost him.

genom
10-26-2007, 01:10 PM
You're right he has done well in coverage, but his tackling has at times been horrendous this year. I can recall several instances of him getting completely faked out by running backs. Getting run over by Brandon Jacobs also comes to mind. This is not the same Jonathon Vilma, at least not in this system

genom
10-26-2007, 01:20 PM
Do me a favor and go back and look at last weeks game, or the week prior. Now watch Vilma take on a fullback or a guard, and watch him get blown back by 5 yards EVERY time. Now watch Harris take on a fullback or a guard, he stands his ground and allows others to come up and make the hit. Or he disengages quick and helps out on the tackle. It is clear as day, watch the tape. Harris is much stronger than Vilma, and Vilma is clearly playing hesitant this year.

hcbrad08
10-26-2007, 03:01 PM
Genom is right...Vilma is not playing well in our system...And I would argue you need a NT and Vilma would be just as good but considering Grady Jackson is our stop gap measure for another year it would be a wast eof Vilmas talrnt why not get a pick for him before he can become a FA and leave bc he hates the 34 without a NT and big Ends to defend him.

Toast: Vilma has not been bloody brilliant hes just been bloddy (or bloodied) he gets pushed back and dominated every game. He needs to be moved bc we dont have and will not have the nT needed for him to be effective for prob 2 years. I would love to keep him if we were committed to running a 43 but were not

619
10-26-2007, 03:17 PM
no star MLB like vilma likes the 3-4 and i do feel like that could be one of the main reasons he may leave once his contract is up

CannedToast
10-26-2007, 04:23 PM
Genom is right...Vilma is not playing well in our system...And I would argue you need a NT and Vilma would be just as good but considering Grady Jackson is our stop gap measure for another year it would be a wast eof Vilmas talrnt why not get a pick for him before he can become a FA and leave bc he hates the 34 without a NT and big Ends to defend him.

Toast: Vilma has not been bloody brilliant hes just been bloddy (or bloodied) he gets pushed back and dominated every game. He needs to be moved bc we dont have and will not have the nT needed for him to be effective for prob 2 years. I would love to keep him if we were committed to running a 43 but were not

Wow. Well, we'll see in the coming weeks how well whoever plays ILB in his place does, and we'll see who is right.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
10-26-2007, 05:21 PM
its not secret that vilma isn't meant for this scheme, but the same could be said about multiple other players on the D. Hey, maybe thats why our D sux. Tell Mangini to wake the F up

The Great Jonathan Vilma
10-26-2007, 05:22 PM
i'd just like to say that lately i'm beyong annoyed with the Jets and watching every game and what happens has pretty much killed any + emotions i might have had. IMO it all starts and ends with Mangini and his stupidity thus far.

LonghornsLegend
10-26-2007, 05:53 PM
I dont know why guys still get upset about Mia players going back to Miami to work out, almost all of them do it, and almost all of them come back to their teams in great shape and play well...Its been going on for some time, its not like their taking a fishing trip, or working out in their backyard, if you think about the athletes that came from the U and that all go back to work out, its probably as good of an environment as you can get

bigbluedefense
10-26-2007, 07:38 PM
Watch Harris kick ass this week. Ive been very impressed with him every chance he sees the field, and he's built for this scheme.

He should be in the starting lineup, I have no idea why he's bench to begin with.

derza222
10-26-2007, 08:37 PM
Watch Woodson kick ass this week. Ive been very impressed with him every chance he sees the field, and he's built for this scheme.

He should be in the starting lineup, I have no idea why he's bench to begin with.

Who exactly is Woodson? Do you mean David Harris or...?

bigbluedefense
10-26-2007, 08:38 PM
Who exactly is Woodson? Do you mean David Harris or...?

Whoops, yeah I meant Harris. I always get his name confused with Woodson for some reason. I'll edit that now.

BroadwayJoe10
10-27-2007, 11:33 AM
Well, it is official.

But Vilma, in a statement released through the team today, said, "I now look forward to supporting my teammates for the rest of the 2007 season and returning to the field with them in 2008."

I've read more and more quotes from "friends of vilma" saying he is extremely frustrated with playing in the 3-4. I hate the idea of trading him, i would honestly rather just try him at SS first, but I dont see that flying too well with him. He is only 25 and could be a top 5 mlb in a 4-3, so i dont see why we couldn't get a high first rounder for him, but that is just me being optomistic.

nvot9
10-27-2007, 12:30 PM
Why not try and trade him straight up, why does it necessarily have to be for a pick? DeAngelo Hall and Chad Johnson are two big name players in a 4-3 reportedly on the block...not big needs, but we could use them. What about even Lance Briggs? I dnno I'm just speculating here though...

But again, as I said, the Jets got a first round draft pick for a disgruntled, injury prone player who was less talented and less productive than Vilma in John Abraham...I can guarantee we'd get the same kind of value if not better, for Vilma..

I'm sure the Bengals, Giants, even Broncos would throw a first rounder down for Vilma in a heart beat.


LAST THING: If we could somehow manage to get Chris Long AND Darren McFadden, from simply a potential perspective and given the way things are going this year, I would possibly take those two over Vilma. Very doubtful, just optimistic.

derza222
10-27-2007, 02:58 PM
Why not try and trade him straight up, why does it necessarily have to be for a pick? DeAngelo Hall and Chad Johnson are two big name players in a 4-3 reportedly on the block...not big needs, but we could use them. What about even Lance Briggs? I dnno I'm just speculating here though...

But again, as I said, the Jets got a first round draft pick for a disgruntled, injury prone player who was less talented and less productive than Vilma in John Abraham...I can guarantee we'd get the same kind of value if not better, for Vilma..

I'm sure the Bengals, Giants, even Broncos would throw a first rounder down for Vilma in a heart beat.


LAST THING: If we could somehow manage to get Chris Long AND Darren McFadden, from simply a potential perspective and given the way things are going this year, I would possibly take those two over Vilma. Very doubtful, just optimistic.


Given the reason that Hall and Johnson are supposedly on the trading block (I personally don't think Cincy deals Ocho and gets rid of Marvin at the end of the season, Chad isn't the problem it's injurys and the fact that the team is unbelievably poorly coached) is that they're not team players, and we're trying to get rid of all of our guys that aren't team players this offseason, why would we trade for them? And Briggs is overrated IMO, plus I don't know what kind of fit he is for the scheme.

The only problem with trading him this offseason is he's having major knee surgery, and for a guy who's strength is speed and playing sideline to sideline that makes him a major question mark. Abraham was more of a guy who never played through lingering things, his injuries weren't as serious as this one. I think he ends up being devalued a tad because of that. That said I think the Bengals and Giants are definitely possible trade partners, as are Saints and Lions. We'll see what happens, but I definitely think he's gone after this season.

throwback54milkman
10-28-2007, 12:00 AM
this whole situation makes me really sad as a Jets fan, because Vilma was really one of every1's favorites and he's gone so downhill since Mangini. Its really sad cuz he's such a good kid and tries so hard, but is just in the wrong system. In this past offseason I was completely against trading him just because of who he is. But now, if we could get something for him and if Harris plays well, im not opposed. And if we did trade him, he would still be my favorite player.

SuperKevin
10-28-2007, 02:07 AM
Wow huge loss for a reeling Jets team. Is it officially time to go into tank mode?

nvot9
10-28-2007, 09:18 AM
Wow huge loss for a reeling Jets team. Is it officially time to go into tank mode?

It doesn't have to be, I think we can play our best and still lose every game...

ironman4579
10-28-2007, 04:04 PM
Just a note. I believe David Harris has 7 total tackles today(4 solo, 3 assisted, I think. Could be 4 total as well) and the Bills are averaging 2.5 YPC on the ground.

derza222
10-28-2007, 04:20 PM
Just a note. I believe David Harris has 7 total tackles today(4 solo, 3 assisted, I think. Could be 4 total as well) and the Bills are averaging 2.5 YPC on the ground.

Though I'm sure this has something to do with the fact that Lynch isn't playing, this is an interesting stat and I'm sure there's a definite relation there. Nice point.

Also, he's got 5 solo and 3 assisted at the half.

genom
10-28-2007, 04:22 PM
Wow. Well, we'll see in the coming weeks how well whoever plays ILB in his place does, and we'll see who is right.

How do you think Harris has played? Is there a noticeable difference?

ironman4579
10-28-2007, 04:23 PM
Though I'm sure this has something to do with the fact that Lynch isn't playing, this is an interesting stat and I'm sure there's a definite relation there. Nice point.

Also, he's got 5 solo and 3 assisted at the half.

Yea, I saw that. I don't know, Lynch did have 7 carries before he got hurt and was only averaging 3.3 YPC(which is obviously better than 2.5 but still). I'm not saying that Harris is directly responsible for the 2.5 YPC by the way. Just that he's playing pretty well so far with 8 tackles in the first half, and the defense does seem to be playing better against the run at the very least.

ironman4579
10-28-2007, 04:41 PM
Make that 11 tackles and a sack for Harris. With Lynch back in, the Bills are still averaging 2.5 YPC on the ground.

derza222
10-28-2007, 04:50 PM
Make that 11 tackles and a sack for Harris. With Lynch back in, the Bills are still averaging 2.5 YPC on the ground.

He's been fantastic thus far. Not that I'm surprised, but he's been great. You have to figure Vilma is gone this offseason, but the whole situation has still been a little shady. I wonder if he's actually hurt, and I wonder what we'll get in exchange for him...

ironman4579
10-28-2007, 04:57 PM
Harris is also making the defensive calls according to the announcers, since apparently Barton doesn't like to.

ironman4579
10-28-2007, 05:15 PM
14 tackles and a sack now(9 solo, 5 assisted). Bills still averaging under 3 YPC(2.9)

ironman4579
10-28-2007, 05:50 PM
Ended up with 17 tackles(10 solo, 7 assisted) and a sack. Bills rushed for just over 3 YPC on the ground. But you guys lost, so I guess it really doesn't matter anyway.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
10-30-2007, 08:08 PM
David Harris looked great out there, took blocks well and made plays in the run game. i honestly didn't pay to much attention to his pass coverage so if anyone has any input that would be appreciated.

If Harris is making the defensive calls i think that would be huge, and just one more step to moving Vilma.........i don't want it to happen but more and more i'm starting to realize its going to happen and making myself accept it. He will always be my one of my favorites and hopefully he can go elsewhere and become the player we all think he's capable of being in a proper defense for his talents.

genom
11-05-2007, 12:48 AM
If there is a knock on Harris' play so far it is his pass defending skills. He looks slow, gets turned around easily, and has very stiff hips in pass situations, especially with quicker runningbacks and tight ends. He will improve in this area I think. He is a bona fide stud against the run though.

stillma7ic
11-08-2007, 11:53 PM
anyone else here think that our defensive scheme should at least include SOME 4-3, when your best defensive player is rendered ineffective you gotta at least consider. imo since vilma is a top3 lb in the 4-3 that warrants changing the scheme. also drob works better in the 4-3, i mean getting a good 3-4 NT is so hard and we have more pieces for the 4-3 than the 3-4.

cliffs: move to 4-3 plz.

hcbrad08
11-09-2007, 07:03 AM
go into the jets discussion forum you'll see a lot of us saying that