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View Full Version : Its been awhile stopgap mock


toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 12:57 AM
As usual, a little forecasting (with order and players). As always, tis early, and just ideas. Working on a longer mock, which probably wonít be done for awhile. A lot more juniors, and some obviously may choose to stay in school. Got tired about thinking about trades late first and got tired of typing late first. About the only notable names I didnít consider would be Alex Boone and Earl Bennett. No real reason why I decided only those two would stay in school, when a lot more are likely to do that. And neither guy is a sure fire first rounder anyways.

1. Miami Dolphins

Pretty soon, itís going to be the John Beck era, and while I like Beck, I donít forsee him doing much winning. Huziengaís comments certainly wonít make anyone feel secure down there. If Huzienga overhauls things again, then shame on him. Give Cameron time. If you want to can Randy Mueller, eh, okay. But at least give Cameron some time. Iíd give Mueller a chance as well.
As has been discussed before, I donít think this is a particularly good year for the Dolphins to pick first overall. The talents donít match with what they need. I still think Beck will be given every chance to run with it, particularly if Cameron is around, and probably even if he isnít. This isntí a McMahon/Harrington situation Ė this is an early 2nd round pick we are talking about, and this is the guy they passed Brady Quinn for, so I think theyíll give him every shot. WR isnít likely, as value is iffy, and they did take Ginn Jr. and have Hagan as a decent option to develop. TE lacks value this high. Are there any DBís worth it here? DL fits look iffy. LB lacks value.
Itís just not a pretty picture. I really want to make a deal Ö but who? Atlanta doesnít seem likely to make the jump. Same goes for any team in the top 5. I guess the two teams I would look at would be Oakland (in a move up for McFadden) or Houston (also in a move up for McFadden). The latter lacks the assets to really make that move Ö the former, well, I just donít see it. I just donít see Chris Long as a fit, unless they try transitioning him to OLB, but maybe he ends up showcasing enough bulk for them to be convinced. Calais Campbell hasnít played well enough for me to think that even a stellar combine would push him up here.
Iím stuck making a pick, and itís not pretty. Jake Long is a thought, and he might actually work at LT for them. And once again, maybe my own biases come in play here, but Jake Long at first overall? Itís not as if the line has been so bad that they HAVE to go that route. At the end of the day, Iíll go with the same pick and rationale as before, and I know most Fins fans will say thereís no way it happens. But the pick here is Darren McFadden, which might catch several teams by surprise. The best way to develop a young QB and protect your defense is to offer him a strong run game. Ronnie Brown and Darren McFadden would be a nasty duo for Beck to work with, and allowing them to work some youth into that defense as the defense goes through a transition. Brownís coming off the torn ACL, has only 3 more years on his deal (sounds like a lot, but it really isnít), and as most know, the treads on RBís go out quicker than at most positions. They could even consider trading Brown after 08-09. I am a big fan of McFadden, which is surprising due to my distaste for tall RBís. That said, I think Darren, with a good time, could be considered a true elite RB prospect, that is, a guy that would elite each year.

Miami Dolphins pick: RB Darren McFadden, Arkansas

2. Atlanta Falcons

Yes, the Rams have a worse record. But the Falcons are in a harder division (not by much, but the South still seems better), and while both coaching staffs seem to have issues with their players, the potential for a bigger blow up seems to exist. I really thought Petrino had done a decent job so far, and some young personnel had shown improvement under his watch. I donít think this team is that far from being competitive, but Petrino has to have control of the locker room, so weíll see how that plays out.
What do they do? Well, it seems fairly clear that certain positions will be looked at. With McFadden gone, RB comes off the board. A franchise QB is definitely needed. Some more OL help wouldnít be bad. They could use DT help. DB probably wouldnít get considered this high even if Hall was moved. A trade certainly would be considered.
Who would move up? Well, I canít figure anyone out, so thatís out. So Iím making a pick. The move would seem to be QB Ö but I have my doubts. I donít know why. Yes, Iíll admit my biases on Brohm probably come into play here, as I donít see him as a pick that high. But Iím just not sold that they will go gung ho after a QB. Donít know. Just a feel, and probably way off. I think theyíll look, without a doubt. The nod goes to getting an impact DT. With Dorsey inside and Anderson outside, they could have the formation of a dominant young line.

Atlanta Falcons pick: DT Glenn Dorsey, Louisiana State

3. St. Louis Rams

Clearly, a lot of changes will happen there this offseason, so itís hard to say what they will actually do. Linehan seems iffy to make it by most accounts. Itís odd, I really liked this team entering the year, and while I knew they could struggle, I never envisioned it this bad, even with injuries. Where do they look?
OL certainly deserves some consideration as Barron isnít impressing by most accounts, and Pace is aging. They could use defensive line help as well. Could a trade happen? Perhaps Ö but I think they make a pick here. While Jake Long may be tempting, I lean the other Long. I never envisioned putting Chris Long this high entering the year, but he has arguably deserved this lofty draft status. With Carriker and Ryan inside, they have some young DTís (and DTís whose skillsets could mesh well once Carriker moves to UT fulltime). They donít have that top young DE, and Chris Long could be that option. Heíll get some time to work his way in, but he could be their replacement, albeit, a different type of player, for Leonard Little. Heís the type of player that teams will love to build around.

St. Louis Rams pick: DE Chris Long, Virginia

4. New York Jets

Well, the Mangenius label is probably off. Heís not a bad coach by any means, as the personnel just isnít there. That said, heís made some questionable decisions this year, perhaps partly influenced by last yearís overachievement. Theyíve got a lot of holes to fill, and considering the New York media, the pressure will be ratcheted up a notch. Where do they go?
The DL could use some work. The LB core will get a long look, particularly if they ship Vilma off. I donít forsee them going secondary this high. The offensive line clearly needs a couple more pieces. A young runner is more a midround look. Thomas Jones has lost a tiny step, but the OL isnít any good. Could WR be a thought? A dynamic TE would be nice for what they want to do, but it doesnít exist up here. Clemens likely will be given every opportunity to win the job, so if they look QB, itís a later on look.
Whatís the call? Is there a trade? I donít see the Jets wanting to fall too far, and I donít see any of the intermediate teams making a move up. A couple years back, talk was that the Jets would take Super Mario if he fell, even if Brick was there. Calais gets a long look, but Iím going to make a pick that I donít like. Nod goes to Jake Long here. Iím not a fan of taking a RT this early, but they clearly need some help on the OL, and you want to give Clemens every chance to prove he can be the man. Adding the OL piece will help the run game, which will in turn protect a defense that might go through some changes this offseason.

New York Jets pick: OT Jake Long, Michigan

5. Oakland Raiders

I have them here on account of the fact that it sure feels like the Jamarcus Russell era will begin at some point this year. Iíve been impressed with Lane Kiffin so far, but a move to Russell will likely mean some hard knocks to end the year. That said, itís the right move, though, as they need to get Russell some action. The Raiders could still use a lead back, but value up here seems iffy. A lead receiver is also needed, and more OL help wouldnít be bad. Defensively, they could use an impact DL talent.
Is there a trade out there? I donít see it. Itís still fairly costly to move up here, and considering whatís left on the board, Iím not sure who bolts up? So whatís the call? Iím not sold on OL here. I think someone will work up to this area to be of deserving value, but Iím not sold. So what else? Iím looking primarily at DeSean Jackson at WR, Sedrick Ellis at DT, and Calais Campbell. While Campbell hasnít performed as well as some expected, he is still a very intriguing raw talent. At the end of the day, the nod goes to Sedrick Ellis, though, who is a more consistent player. Very tempted with Campbell here.

Oakland Raiders pick: DT Sedrick Ellis, Southern California

6. New England Patriots f/ San Francisco 49ers

This would really give Bill Belichick the final laugh. Yeah, he loses their own first, but if he finishes with a top 6 pick, and if they can win the Super Bowl? Thatís the ultimate finger to the NFL that Belichick probably desires to give. As for the Niners, they just havenít played well this year. I thought theyíd be better, and certainly injuries played a factor. But the OL has underperformed, which has hurt offensive production, and probably exposed the defense more than it could handle.
What does New England do here after it has a hearty good laugh? Short of it, I canít see offense here. Value and need arenít there. Maybe a case could be made for OL as something to look at, but they seem more liable to look OL later considering how well itís done this year. Defensively, DB and LB could still get long looks. Harrison is still aging, and Wilson seems done. If Meriweather is at corner (which I doubt), then a FS would be nice, as Sanders/Harrison isnít an ideal safety pairing. Or they could look corner, as the Samuel situation will come to a head at some point.
I end up looking trade. Admittedly, I probably look harder for the Pats than other teams due to their recent history. Kenny Phillips is tempting, as is someone like Malcolm Jenkins if he works up this high, but I canít see them pulling the trigger, and without any glaring needs to be filled this high, they may look to accumulate assets. DeSean Jackson was a deep sleeper thought, so deep that it didnít even register that much. Who might deal up? (btw, if stuck making a pick, I think I go with Malcolm Jenkins).
Chicagoís a thought, jumping up for a QB, but I donít see that happening under Angeloís watch. Who knows, surprises happen. Texans are a thought (Phillips) but they lack assets and have several holes to fill. Bengals, if they finish top 10, may be looking to retool, so not sure I see that happening. Cardinals? Donít see it. Iím thinking of a variant of a trade I did in a previous mock

Projected Trade:

Eagles get the 6th overall pick
Patriots get the 13th overall pick, Eagles 3rd rounder this year, and a 2nd rounder in 2009

Future value has been factored in this case, but the 2009 pick could be a 3rd rounder to balance it out. Short of it is the Pats move down and collect a future asset. Why might the Eagles move up? Theyíve done a good job bringing in young talent at many positions. One area that could still use an impact player is at safety, and thereís really only one elite safety in Kenny Phillips. Theyíve got enough young talent to afford a big move if they opted for it. They have to contemplate whether or not Phillips would reach them, and itís possible the Texans would jump on him.

Philadelphia Eagles pick: S Kenny Phillips, the U

7. Minnesota Vikings

Tis a shame for the Vikings. Theyíve got a very solid team, with one big hole, at QB. Sure, thereís other areas of concern, but QB is the glaring area. Barring a Tarvaris Jackson turnaround, theyíll likely be looking QB. Maybe they got an itchy trigger finger and bolt up to secure someone, although I think they can stand pat. Who do they take? I still prefer Woodson personally, but I think Matt Ryan is the top rated QB right now, and if Childress is around, I think he might be a better fit for Childress. Ryan is a bit more ready to step in sooner than later.

Minnesota Vikings pick: QB Matt Ryan, Boston College

8. Houston Texans

A lot of things have gone wrong since a good start, and considering they are in the AFC, and in particular, the AFC South, they may struggle down the stretch and finish with a top 10 pick. I think they are headed the right direction in many respects, but they need to address some key areas. From a personnel standpoint, time will help a lot. Okoye and Williams should get better with another year, along with Travis Johnson. DL is one area where, even though thereís inconsistencies now, they wonít look early barring a surprise.
DB is an area of concern, but do they really go with a corner this high? Phillips is off, and I thought about moving them up for him, but they just lack the assets. If they moved up, there goes their day 1, and they have needs. LB is probably a later look. More OL help is needed, and they have to find a lead back at some point. Is there a trade?
I think itís possible that a trade happens. Once the top QB gets off the board, I think you could see some teams jockeying to move up. A team could look for perhaps a CB or WR could be reasons for a team to move up. Who do I have in mind?

Projected Trade:

Carolina gets the 8th overall pick
Houston gets the 16th overall, Carolinaís 3rd rounder, and a 2009 2nd rounder

Am I being too nice to Carolina? From a numbers perspective, it could cost them their 2nd to move up. That said, I think Houston will be very open to moving down, and Carolina may hold firm on their 2nd rounder to address another need. Carolina has 3 areas to look at. They could use a safety. OT is an area of concern. But I think they move up to grab a QB of the future. If they miss the playoffs, as I have it, Fox is gone and that may get them to jump start the post-Delhomme era. I mean, old man Vinny or David Carr are the options now. The nod goes to Andreí Woodson, who I have as my 2nd QB on the big board. The Bears are a threat to take a QB, and instead of waiting for whoís left, they may jump up to target their guy, whoever that is.

Carolina Panthers pick: QB Andreí Woodson, Kentucky

9. Cincinnati Bengals

If they finish this poorly, I have a feeling the Marvin Lewis era is over. This may be a Buccaneers situation in that, they mightíve gone as far as they could under one coach, and a new voice might be needed. Letís look at what they might need on paper. They could use a pass rush upgrade. I still think they could use interior help, but is it a top need? Debatable. A safety is a thought but value is lacking. LB might be a passing possibility. Chad Johnson might talk his way into getting moved, so WR may be a thought. I donít see OL as a consideration up here.
Is there a trade? Iíve worked two trades before this, and I have a hard time seeing a 3rd right here. Thereís some scenarios I tossed around, but none are enough for me to pull the trigger. So what do they do here? Even if Chad is moved, I think defense is the look here. Iím looking DL here. With Ellis off the board, itís DE thatís being looked at, and itís definitely a concern. They need more pass rushing help. Justin Smith is a FA, I believe. More experience for Peko could help improve the run D. Adding Calais Campbell could help against the run and the pass. If he finishes strong, and has stellar workouts, he could be long gone.

Cincinnati Bengals pick: DE Calais Campbell, the U

10. Chicago Bears

To the extent the Bears overachieved last year, they are underachieving this year. They may slide up or down a couple slots, but itís next to impossible, IMO, to see them surging into they playoffs. What do they need? Well, in all honesty, a lot in many respects, and yet, there is some raw potential on the roster.
Letís start defense. Safety play has been porous this year, and while there is some raw talent in Manning and Payne, theyíll likely add someone. But first round? No value with Phillips off anyways. Cornerís fine and even if Briggs leaves, LB isnít a top concern with Okwo and Jamar Williams. DT needs some more depth, but itís not a top need. Offensively, they could use an OG. TE is fine. WR could use another player. Thereís some raw talent there, in Bradley and Hester, but the former is in the doghouse a lot, and Hester is awfully raw. I believe they could use a RB to push Cedric Benson.
That said, the two biggest needs are at OT and QB. A lot will depend on how Griese plays down the stretch. Personally, Iíd go OT, and I think that happens if Griese plays well enough for them to think they can be competitive with him next year, buying time for a 2nd or 3rd round QB to be developed. If Griese falters, though, I think they look QB in the first.
I absolutely hate what Iím about to do Ö but with two QBís off the board, if the Bears are picking 10th, that means Griese hasnít exactly lit things up, to say the least. And I think they take the last remaining QB, who might actually be the QB highest up on Angeloís charts. Iím not a big fan of Brohm, although it seems more people think of his value more along Leinart than along Rodgers and Quinn. I think he has a low ceiling, and I have a lot of questions about Brohm, but I think he also has a good floor.

Chicago Bears pick: QB Brian Brohm, Louisville

11. Arizona Cardinals

What a difference a few weeks make. A couple weeks ago, I was sure this team was headed in the right direction and good things were going to happen. Now, Iím not so sure. They could very well still win a weak division, so itís worth watching. But they are here for now. What do they do? A young runner is need at some point. More OL help wouldnít be out of the question. Another edge guy could be a thought. Maybe corner, although that seems unlikely.
Could a trade be possible? Several intriguing guys are available. Several edge guys should be on the board. No LB has come off the board yet. No CB has come off the board. DeSean Jackson is still around, along with a bunch of OTís. They might get a sniff, but Iím not sure they find someone to make that bold move up. I was thinking about Tampa Bay moving up for DeSean Jackson, but Iím not sold.
So I make a pick. Not sure if Cardinals fans will like it. I was leaning Jenkins for awhile, then was thinking Gholston. I end up, though, with OT. The OL hasnít been bad, but they could use a better talent. Ryan Clady is my personal favorite at OT, and heís gotten better as the yearís progressed. That said, if someone else is at number 2, then go with that player. I know, back to back OT picks. Iím not too pleased with it, but Iím not sure on any other move here that would make much sense.

Arizona Cardinals pick: OT Ryan Clady, Boise State

12. Buffalo Bills

Much credit to Dick Jauron. I really didnít think they would be any good after the injury bug hit early and the passing game was, um, to be nice, erratic. Heís really settled them down. What do they do? With extra assets, maybe they get aggressive and move up, but I didnít do it in this instance. Do they trade down? Perhaps Ö but I think there are good options for them here. They mightíve considered DT, but McCargo has shown improvement, and the top 2 guys are off the board. I think DE and CB might be given some consideration. They could use a better pass rush, and their CB depth isnít that great. That said, the nod goes offense. Marshawn Lynchís former teammate has slipped somewhat, and someone may move up for him to Arizonaís spot if he falls this much. They need to give whoever the QB is better targets, and Roscoe Parrish and Josh Reed are decent, but not standout guys to give Lee Evans some more breathing room.

Buffalo Bills pick: WR DeSean Jackson, California

13. New England Patriots f/ Philadelphia Eagles

The Eagles seem very enigmatic to me, but being the tough NFC East, I have a tough time seeing them reach the playoffs. Anyhow, I made a swap earlier, so New England is picking here. What do the Pats do? Iím thinking corner or LB here. Gut screams Malcolm Jenkins, Malcolm Jenkins. And I donít go that route. Second instinct says Laurinaitis. And I donít go that route either. Instead, I go with Vernon Gholston here as a young edge guy to groom. The reasoning is that a young edge guy is much more likely to provide help next year within their schemes, and if need be, they can move Vrabel inside if Bruschi runs out of gas. Groves was a thought, but I like Gholston as a fit better.

New England Patriots pick: DE/OLB Vernon Gholston, the Ohio State

14. Dallas Cowboys f/ Cleveland Browns

The Browns are much better than I anticipated, and Derek Anderson may force Brady Quinn to wait another year. This may become somewhat akin to the Brees/Rivers situation of a couple years ago. That said, they dealt this pick away, and itís Dallasí pick. What do the Cowboys do?
I guess itís possible they package both picks up, but I donít see that happening. Move down? I donít see a deal here that I really buy, unless itís something like a 2nd and a ton of other assets, which I have a hard time buying, but could happen. Thankfully, the Patriots left Malcolm Jenkins on the board, so the Cowboys have a guy who fills a key area they may look at and is quality value here.

Dallas Cowboys pick: CB Malcolm Jenkins, the Ohio State

15. Denver Broncos

I really thought theyíd be better than this, but theyíve stumbled, as the D hasnít been enough, and the O has missed opportunities. What do they go with here? Itís a tough call. They need defensive help Ö but they also need OL help, and thereís good OL value here. Lepsis will be what, 34? Iím going with offense here for now, hoping that their young defensive players step up the 2nd half of the year enough to convince them to fix the OL early for once. Somehow, I donít see it happening, but thatís the nod. Baker seems like a good fit for what they do.

Denver Broncos pick: OT Sam Baker, Southern California

16. Houston Texans f/ Carolina Panthers

I donít forsee Carolina in the playoffs right now. Anyhow, I made a swap earlier. The Texans moved down earlier and accumulated some extra assets. What do they do here? The pick likely is offense. The DL has gotten a lot of picks, and LB can wait. Safety lacks value here, and while there are some intriguing corners, nothing stands out. So what on offense? OL or RB would be the top areas of focus. Whatís the call? I really thought long and hard on OL here, but who fits? Iím going RB. Who? This may be an interesting call. Slaton seems a huge possibility here Ö but the nod goes to Rashard Mendenahll. And yeah, I know ďsystem usually doesnít take RBís earlyĒ. Heck, it doesnít take OL early either.

Houston Texans pick: RB Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois

17. Detroit Lions

This is an odd team. At times, I donít think they are that good at all. But they are 5-2 right now. I think Martz has adjusted his playcalling a bit and it helps. All in all, I think Rod Marinelli is doing well there. What to do here? The defense could use some more work. Iím thinking CB or end. While theyíve generated a fair amount of pressure, they could still use a top end, and the nod goes to Derrick Harvey, who will need time but could develop into an excellent pass rusher and really help.

Detroit Lions pick: DE Derrick Harvey, Florida

18. Kansas City Chiefs

I really didnít expect much from the Chiefs this year, and thus, Iím impressed with what theyíve done so far. Is it a bit smoke and mirrors? Perhaps a bit, but the defense is showing up. The Jared Allen situation will be worth watching. That said, assuming they donít decide to draft a QB, Iím going OL here. They need some more talent in there to help boost the run game a bit, which has struggled this year. The nod is to Michael Oher. There seems to be mixed perceptions on whether or not he will come out, and only time will tell. If he does, heíll probably go quite high. If heís not here, then Iíd have to think long and hard, as Iím not sure Cherilus merits it here. Is Oher definitely a tackle? Thatís perhaps debatable, but I think many teams will give him a look at OT.

Kansas City Chiefs pick: OT Michael Oher, Ole Miss

19. Washington Redskins

How they rebound from the New England game will be worth watching. If they come out fighting, thereís a chance they push into the playoffs. As of now, I have them on the outside looking in. Many rumors point to this being Gibbs last year. If thatís the case, then what they do may be hard to figure. For now, weíll look at it from a personnel perspective. Offensively, they need to add OL depth. Theyíve been hurt by injuries. A big WR couldnít hurt. Defensively, an end is a thought.
Whatís the call? Main thing for the offense is Campbellís development. OL would become an option if they decide to cut Jansen. The nod is going defense. Iíd like to go end, and itís a thought. But fit and value are iffy here. Iím going CB here if they stay put, though, as itís a cause for concern. Rogers just got hurt, and Springs is aging. Their depth is filled with, well depth guys, unless Fred Smoot suddenly finds the fountain of youth. Debatable call, I understand. But thereís good corner value on the board.
That said, I wonder about a trade. Some team may opt to jump Tampa for an OT or WR, and Washington may be amenable to moving down (provided they havenít done anything idiotic with the pick yet).

Projected Trade:

Minnesota gets the 19th overall
Washington gets their 2nd, their first 3rd, and their 4th

Why for Minnesota? Sure, there might be some depth areas defensively to address, but nothing glaring. After getting their QB, though, what they really need is another impact WR. Yeah, Rice has been intriguing enough, but they could use another guy. And everyone is on the board besides Jackson. Tampa could snatch a WR. Washington moves down into better positioning for their needs. Whatís the nod? Iím going Early Doucet here for now, but it could easily be someone like Malcolm Kelly, Adarius Bowman, or someone else. Doucet has to finish strong, though, and he got off to a good start last week. He also needs to test well, medically, and overall.

Minnesota picks: WR Early Doucet, Louisiana State

20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Itíll be interesting to see if Chucky sticks around. Probably, if they make the playoffs, but interesting nonetheless. Anyhow, what do they need? Their young defense looks better with each passing week. Defensive needs can wait. The offense is what it is Ö and it needs help. OT may be a thought, but I donít see them going Cherilus, Loadholt, or Hills here. I think a QB will be added later. Iím thinking RB or WR here. A couple years ago they barely missed on Lee Evans and settled for Michael Clayton. Did Minnesota do something similar to them? Anyhow, I was thinking RB here, as I think they can find a good WR later, and even before the injury, Caddyís long term durability was a fair question. Probably a call thatíll get some critiques. I think Kevin Smith could be a guy that fit real well.

Tampa Bay picks: RB Kevin Smith, Central Florida

21. Tennessee Titans

I think I talked myself out of giving themselves a playoff nod because I had a hard time seeing 3 AFC South teams in. That said, itís possible 3 get in, and itís possible they are in and Jacksonville isnít. But for now, they are here. What do they need? I think they could look at the secondary. A MIKE linebacker option may be a thought. But Ö theyíve collected a lot of midtier WRís and kept on waiting for one to emerge. None have yet. At some point, they need better weapons for Vince. The nod here goes to Malcolm Kelly, but it could be a number of other guys.

Tennessee picks: WR Malcolm Kelly, Oklahoma

22. Baltimore Ravens

Iíve got them in the playoffs, which is somewhat disconcerting to me, as they really arenít that impressive. Eh. Letís roll with it for now. What to do? QB is a concern, but that may be pushed off for another year with Boller still around. Unlikely to see a OL pick here, IMO, unless the value was far and away the best, which Iím not sold on. Defensively, itís still a top defense, but it isnít as dominant as it once was. Iíd ponder DL here, but there isnít a standout value, IMO. Corner, LB, edge guy could be thoughts. The nod goes to James Laurinaitis. No, I didnít forget about him. Iím just not sold he is anything more than a mid-first, at best, right now, and I leaned for Gholston with the Pats, and didnít see any other mid-first team going for him. Laurinaitis might stay in school and, if he got better, could be a top 10 pick next year. In this situation, he comes in to understudy and be used in a variety of methods.

Baltimore picks: LB James Laurinaitis, the Ohio State

23. New Orleans Saints

What a difference a few weeks make. A couple weeks back, I had the Saints all but dead. Now, I think, even with some injuries, they have a good shot of bouncing back and getting into the playoffs. What do they need? OL could use some more work, but with the depth in this draft, they can afford to wait. Maybe a big back for depth purposes, but they can wait on that as well. The pick should be defense. The run D has been better than I thought. Could still use a DT upgrade, though, IMO. Corner could get consideration. LB could be a thought. LBís have fallen in this version, and the value is great there. The nod goes to Keith Rivers. Arguably, the DT they could take here isnít that much better, if at all, than one they could find in the 3rd. CB options here and in the 2nd or 3rd isnít all that substantial.

New Orleans picks: LB Keith Rivers, Southern California

24. Seattle Seahawks

Iím not sure the Seahawks are all that good, but the NFL is about parity these days, and they are in a weak division where Arizona is the only threat, and the Cards have their own concerns. Where could the Seahawks look? To be honest, Iím not too sure on what area stands out. Probably not the secondary, having spent picks on Jennings and Wilson in recent years and signing a couple safeties last year. Probably not LB either. DE seems unlikely here. DT? Wouldnít rule it out. Offensively, a WR is a thought, I think. TE if there is one of value. A backup running back is a need at some point. Iím leaning to the OL, though. While I think this is a bit early, perhaps Phillip Loadholtís potential convinces them to take a look here.

Seattle Seahawks pick: OL Phillip Loadholt, Oklahoma

25. Jacksonville Jaguars

Can they survive these few weeks without Garrard? I think so, but barely. Is Garrard the future? Thatís debatable, but at this point in the draft, itís questionable if thereís a QB of value. Where else do they look? Unfortunately, WR is still an area of concern. Thereís some other areas of need, but no matter who the QB is, their WRís have to step up. Do they try again? Perhaps. A lot of possibilities. I feel like Iím in the minority on this, but it wouldnít surprise me to see Keenan Burton in the first round and potentially as an option here.

Jacksonville picks: WR Keenan Burton, Kentucky

26. San Diego Chargers

A month ago, I thought they were, well, not toast, but definitely not sold on them making their way back. Theyíve looked great of late. So what to do here? A WR could be sought, but they did draft Craig ďBusterĒ Davis. A backup RB is a possibility. Defensively, DL depth would be nice (but who?). Secondary is a thought. The nod, though, goes OL. Gosder Cherilus has slipped a bit, but is still a solid prospect. He could fit in at RT, moving Olivea in and making that OL younger, and perhaps better.

San Diego Chargers pick: OT Gosder Cherilus, Boston College

27. New York Giants

Honestly did not expect them in the playoffs at the beginning of the year. I thought they were in a partial rebuilding phase. All the credit to their leadership, and the players. What to do here? LB seems like the top need, and some options are still on the board. Nod goes to Ali Highsmith over Dan Connor as their weakside backer.

New York Giants pick: LB Ali Highsmith, Louisiana State

28. Green Bay Packers

Theyíve been real good, and Iím still surprised considering the lack of a run game. They need to add another guy to the mix in all likelihood. Maybe someone emerges, but at this point in time, I have a hard time seeing it. Is there anyone worth it here? Perhaps Steve Slaton could be a dominant back in the scheme. Worth the gamble here potentially.

Green Bay Packers pick: RB Steve Slaton, West Virginia

29. Pittsburgh Steelers

What do the Steelers do here? Top OL pieces all basically all off now. They could go for a 2nd tier guy here, but they can probably find someone of similar value in round 2. A RB backup can wait. WR value differentiation isnít all that great. DL is a thought. I like my pick from last time a lot and am sticking with it.

Pittsburgh Steelers pick: LB Erin Henderson, Maryland

30. San Francisco 49ers f/ Indianapolis Colts

Niners OL has struggled, but they have some pieces to play with on the roster. WR is a thought. DL is a thought. Someone like Groves is a thought. Iím going DL. I really donít get the fascination with Kentwan Balmer. Nice player, but I just donít see a first round pick there. Not sold on Okam as an option. I still believe Dre Moore moves up, and he gets the nod here as a guy who can play anywhere on that 3-4 DL, although heís probably spending more time at end in the 3-4. Stout against the run and getting better as a pass rusher.

San Francisco picks: DL Marchondray Moore, Maryland

31. Dallas Cowboys

Added Jenkins earlier. What now? OL is a thought, but they have some pieces to look at. RB is a thought, but they might wait a bit. WR or DL are the areas Iím focusing on. Balmer gets some consideration I guess, but Iím not sold. Maurice Murray is another thought, but eh. Iím going WR, and the nod goes to Donnie Avery.

Dallas Cowboys pick: WR Donnie Avery, Houston

32. New England Patriots (forfeited) Ė they be bad.

scar988
10-31-2007, 01:05 AM
about a week ago I woudl have said hell no. but now... it makes perfect sense as long as Dorsey can transition to a 4-3 NT... which eh likely can

fenikz
10-31-2007, 01:19 AM
Should of went with your gut and gave us Jenkins

Grimm has proven that he can take a UDFA rookie and make him into a quality player with Sendlein(played C,LG,RT so far) and the whole line is just years and years ahead of what they were last year

Depending on if we can get Pace & Dansby resigned LB could become our biggest need, but I'm hoping that they will be signed shortly

Turtlepower
10-31-2007, 01:20 AM
I would prefer Cason and Talib (if you have him coming out) over Highsmith. I am a believer of the idea that a LB can be taken in the later rounds at similar value to a 1st round LB, so I would prefer CB.

But great job with the mock. No one puts as much effort or thought into the mock as you do toonster. =D

bearsfan_51
10-31-2007, 01:23 AM
This is one wacky mock!!

That's why I love to read your mocks though. Probably one too many trades, but it's all in fun.

Love Dre Moore in the 1st round.

Caddy
10-31-2007, 01:33 AM
I am definitely not a fan of Tampa going with a RB in the 1st round. Cadillac will be back and even if he is back at a lessened capacity, Earnest Graham, Michael Pittman and Michael Bennett are more than capable of sharing the load and offering a change of pace. Investing in a mid round goal line runner would be a much better option. I would probably give the nod to a WR there and I think Malcolm Kelly would be a nice addition to the team. CB, D-Line, OT and QB also deserve consideration although there isn't much value or players suitable for the position.

toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 04:21 AM
Should of went with your gut and gave us Jenkins

Grimm has proven that he can take a UDFA rookie and make him into a quality player with Sendlein(played C,LG,RT so far) and the whole line is just years and years ahead of what they were last year

Depending on if we can get Pace & Dansby resigned LB could become our biggest need, but I'm hoping that they will be signed shortly

I really had a tough time on that call ... but at the end of the day, we're talking about arguably the most critical position on the OL. Grimm's good, but even back in Pittsburgh, he had some early round picks to work with. Maybe not first round, but I could definitely see an OT pick in day 1. Tis early, though.

In all honesty, I'd wait on LB. Obviously, not my call, but I think you could find a good LB at the top of round 2. If need be, deal up and snap up, say, a Dan Connor if he falls to the 2nd.

toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 04:22 AM
I would prefer Cason and Talib (if you have him coming out) over Highsmith. I am a believer of the idea that a LB can be taken in the later rounds at similar value to a 1st round LB, so I would prefer CB.

But great job with the mock. No one puts as much effort or thought into the mock as you do toonster. =D

Have to admit my own biases probably got in the way there. I'm just not sold on Cason or Talib as first rounders. Next corner on my list probably would be Mike Jenkins.

That said, looking at it now, more than 1 corner will go in the first.

toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 04:23 AM
This is one wacky mock!!

That's why I love to read your mocks though. Probably one too many trades, but it's all in fun.

Love Dre Moore in the 1st round.

There were 3 trades. Not sure how that is too much.

Out of curiousity, what do you find wacky?

toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 04:27 AM
I am definitely not a fan of Tampa going with a RB in the 1st round. Cadillac will be back and even if he is back at a lessened capacity, Earnest Graham, Michael Pittman and Michael Bennett are more than capable of sharing the load and offering a change of pace. Investing in a mid round goal line runner would be a much better option. I would probably give the nod to a WR there and I think Malcolm Kelly would be a nice addition to the team. CB, D-Line, OT and QB also deserve consideration although there isn't much value or players suitable for the position.

Here's my problem with how things set up, assuming Chucky is there. I think he Chucky wants a bit more speed, which Kelly/Bowman and others won't provide. Someone like Doucet may offer enough to entice him, but he got snagged a spot ahead.

OT value seemed iffy there (Cherilus isn't really the LT fit, I think Loadholt is a reach where I had him, and it's probably a bit high for Tony Hills/Chris Williams and a couple others), and QB value was off. DT value was gone, and DE value was somewhat iffy there as well. That leaves CB as the other position you note, and to be honest, I really didn't have CB cross. I just figured they could find a solid cover 2 corner in the 2nd/3rd stanzas.

I'll admit RB isn't the best pick, and maybe I should've gone with a move up instead. Giving up the 2nd rounder to move up to snag DeSean Jackson might be a tempting proposition, if Jackson falls out of the top 10. Maybe there's a workable trade from the bottom up that I haven't investigated.

neko4
10-31-2007, 04:45 AM
Another bad packer pick
Wynn's on IR now, but he, Jackson, and grant should still get a chance next year. Id rather bring a vet in to be a temporary solution

toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 04:58 AM
Another bad packer pick
Wynn's on IR now, but he, Jackson, and grant should still get a chance next year. Id rather bring a vet in to be a temporary solution

Okay, certainly fair considering I'm not a fan of Slaton. That said, what route would you go? CB? Perhaps. That said, in all honesty, after Malcolm Jenkins, I'm not sure anyone stands out enough right now that it makes sense to take someone when the value in round 2 will be similar, and your starting corners are set. I mean, who? Aquib Talib. Nice player. 1st rounder? Got huge questions. Mike Jenkins would probably be the guy I opted for there, but he has his own issues. Justin King? Maybe. I think I forgot about corners somewhat, and another one makes it into round 1, if not 2. But at the end of the 2, heck, early into round 3, you'll find guys that are probably comparable to the guys at the end of round 1.

OL? Doesn't make sense. WR doesn't seem needed. TE value is iffy there. Perhaps, but it seems somewhat iffy. DL and LB don't seem to need a top pick. And on a side note, thing is, Wynn/Jackson/Grant lack pop. That's one thing Slaton would add to the mix.

Crow
10-31-2007, 05:27 AM
The Oakland contingent is pleased. Sucked seeing both McFadden and Long go ahead of us, though Ellis is a more than adequate consolation.

skinzzfan25
10-31-2007, 05:29 AM
Solid trade.

Jakey
10-31-2007, 06:23 AM
Love Erin Henderson...like the mock, Grade A-

bearsfan_51
10-31-2007, 07:11 AM
There were 3 trades. Not sure how that is too much.

Out of curiousity, what do you find wacky?
I think it's just the two trades in the top 10 that threw me off. I don't know when the last time that happened, and find it unlikely considering how scare this draft is on elite talent.

In terms of other things I find unlikely, you could start with McFadden at #1. Runningback is about the only position the Dolphins have solidified. Albeit it still has problems, but you could start just about anywhere else and it would make more sense to me.

At this point I don't see anyone trading up to #6 for Phillips, but that's likely more of a read on what I think his value is, which is borderline top 10. I supposed a team crying for safety help would make the move considering the lack of depth, but the Eagles have just as equally large concerns elsewhere.

Rashard Mendenhall and Kevin Smith the #2 and #3 backs? Meh...Mendenhall I could see, and I know you aren't the only one high on Smith, but I just don't see that happening in actuality.

Donnie Avery in the 1st round would suprise me quite a bit as well.

It's good stuff though...I didn't mean it pejoratively.

bearsfan_51
10-31-2007, 07:19 AM
Do you have Maualuga and King going back, or do you just not consider them 1st rounders?

I also noted Dan Conner outside the 1st round, and tend to agree. I think he's got the value of a mid-to-late but could easily slip considering the how little value the position has right now.

falconsrule
10-31-2007, 07:55 AM
Dorsey would be a great pick up for Atlanta considering Rod Coleman is only under contract until the 09 season.

iloxygenil
10-31-2007, 08:09 AM
I'd hate to see us pick up Dorsey, to be honest...I just think he plays a little too spotty. I don't know, I mean I do love the idea of an interior force on our DL, but we have Trey Lewis as our Nose now, a rookie, and then we have Babineux (a Coleman Clone) in the UT position who's only a 3rd year guy, who last year was 3rd or 5th (can't recall) in the NFL for DTs in TFL...The kid can really play. I don't see DT depth being an issue for us, but getting a force like Dorsey could be great as well. I'd love to see a trade down scenario happen for Atlanta if McFadden was off the board.

george_allen
10-31-2007, 09:05 AM
hmmmm. . . . no quetin groves in the 1st round - i find that both a little suspect and interesting as i would love to see the rams pick him up in round 2.

on c.long for the rams in the 1st - i could defineately see the current regime take long at 3. he's their type of guy and they need a de. i would guess you nailed that one.
the rub is that you can't count on the current regime being there come the off-season, as you pointed out.

here's a potentiality mockers may want to consider while pondering the rams first round pick :
steven jackson is only under contract through the 2008 season. what if he possibly has the temperment to prefer testing the f.a. market having lost confidence in the rams franchise.
if he doesn't extend with the rams before the end of next april, darren mcfadden may look very attractive to the rams.
just sayin'

Finsfan79
10-31-2007, 09:13 AM
1. Miami Dolphins

Pretty soon, it’s going to be the John Beck era, and while I like Beck, I don’t forsee him doing much winning. Huzienga’s comments certainly won’t make anyone feel secure down there. If Huzienga overhauls things again, then shame on him. Give Cameron time. If you want to can Randy Mueller, eh, okay. But at least give Cameron some time. I’d give Mueller a chance as well.
As has been discussed before, I don’t think this is a particularly good year for the Dolphins to pick first overall. The talents don’t match with what they need. I still think Beck will be given every chance to run with it, particularly if Cameron is around, and probably even if he isn’t. This isnt’ a McMahon/Harrington situation – this is an early 2nd round pick we are talking about, and this is the guy they passed Brady Quinn for, so I think they’ll give him every shot. WR isn’t likely, as value is iffy, and they did take Ginn Jr. and have Hagan as a decent option to develop. TE lacks value this high. Are there any DB’s worth it here? DL fits look iffy. LB lacks value.
It’s just not a pretty picture. I really want to make a deal … but who? Atlanta doesn’t seem likely to make the jump. Same goes for any team in the top 5. I guess the two teams I would look at would be Oakland (in a move up for McFadden) or Houston (also in a move up for McFadden). The latter lacks the assets to really make that move … the former, well, I just don’t see it. I just don’t see Chris Long as a fit, unless they try transitioning him to OLB, but maybe he ends up showcasing enough bulk for them to be convinced. Calais Campbell hasn’t played well enough for me to think that even a stellar combine would push him up here.
I’m stuck making a pick, and it’s not pretty. Jake Long is a thought, and he might actually work at LT for them. And once again, maybe my own biases come in play here, but Jake Long at first overall? It’s not as if the line has been so bad that they HAVE to go that route. At the end of the day, I’ll go with the same pick and rationale as before, and I know most Fins fans will say there’s no way it happens. But the pick here is Darren McFadden, which might catch several teams by surprise. The best way to develop a young QB and protect your defense is to offer him a strong run game. Ronnie Brown and Darren McFadden would be a nasty duo for Beck to work with, and allowing them to work some youth into that defense as the defense goes through a transition. Brown’s coming off the torn ACL, has only 3 more years on his deal (sounds like a lot, but it really isn’t), and as most know, the treads on RB’s go out quicker than at most positions. They could even consider trading Brown after 08-09. I am a big fan of McFadden, which is surprising due to my distaste for tall RB’s. That said, I think Darren, with a good time, could be considered a true elite RB prospect, that is, a guy that would elite each year.

Miami Dolphins pick: RB Darren McFadden, Arkansas


While I understand your reasonings and agree with most of them I see a problem still with the outcome here. Unless we look to trade Ronnie brown now (possible for a 1st is offered it would be hard to pass up). I think the best pick here is the elite DT/DE Glenn Dorsey. No he does not project perfectly into a 3-4 system if we ran just a 3-4 system. But we have run a hybrid system (40/60% split) for a while now and we have the potential to turn back into the old 4-3 system. There has been a lot of talk in south florida of returning to the 3-4 system.

If we do that then the pick of Dorsey is perfect for that spot.

4 linemen
JT-Dorsey-Wright-Roth
Gives us a big 4 bodies. Rodrique Wright has looked good at the DE/DT slot in the switching back and forth and Dorsey would give us the depth for the system to make it work and protect our linebacker core.

LBs
Crowder- Zach (draft pick) – Porter

While I don’t feel porter is perfect for the linebackers in this system I do feel that he could be adequate with some time and skill.

I feel that there is not a DB at the top of the draft I consider worthy of a top 5 pick (Phillips is wonderful but not that good). I believe to save face that beck shall be the primary QB talent we look over for a while still. I believe that Mueller and Cam will be here after Wayne’s words so I expect to see them stick with their choice over Quinn.

All of that said WR, QB, RB are all our as picks.

TE – There is not a 1st round or even debatable 2nd round talent in the draft.

RT – A need but not a top of the board need for us, really our line has been wonderful and Mueller has a history of not drafting first round linemen. If you look backwards he likes the flashy players and big time dline most of all. (Flashy wr taken last year blah should of taken okoye).

Campbell and long are both nice talents. Campbell has a far higher upside but there are questions over him for work ethic and the like. Long has his own set of questions and although I think he is a nice talent I believe he is being over hyped because whom he is the son of.

I really see it as Glenn Dorsey has to be the pick barring a poor showing or major injury. Unless we work out a trade, holding Atlanta hostage, or another team for McFadden or one of the QBs if one of the shines over the others and just is stand out for a need.

Would Carolina jump up for a high price? Would Minnesota? If Ryan continues to see his stock rise and puts himself as “The talent” for the draft, how hard will it be to pass up such a player for one of those teams. Jumping to the top of the board to get their elite QB could become an option then.


Personally I am hoping for a trade back, getting some line talent in the 1st round (or Phillips for the secondary). And hoping that Dre Moore is sitting there at the top of the 2nd round for a stud Nose Tackle for us in either system. The 90s dolphins were built on defense around 2 players Bowens and Gardner. They were monsters on the inside and really helped to keep the team a major contender till finally their careers ended. I want another Tim Bowens, a monster in the middle to keep the team safe from the run.


I also think the dolphins will take a little less then the true value of the pick to move back for more picks.

NIN1984
10-31-2007, 09:19 AM
D-line is a huge need for the Raiders but Barry Sims has looked awful lately and his time is running out. Jake Long would be my pick but if he is gone I have no problem taking Sam Baker at #5, we need to protect Russell.

neko4
10-31-2007, 10:08 AM
Okay, certainly fair considering I'm not a fan of Slaton. That said, what route would you go? CB? Perhaps. That said, in all honesty, after Malcolm Jenkins, I'm not sure anyone stands out enough right now that it makes sense to take someone when the value in round 2 will be similar, and your starting corners are set. I mean, who? Aquib Talib. Nice player. 1st rounder? Got huge questions. Mike Jenkins would probably be the guy I opted for there, but he has his own issues. Justin King? Maybe. I think I forgot about corners somewhat, and another one makes it into round 1, if not 2. But at the end of the 2, heck, early into round 3, you'll find guys that are probably comparable to the guys at the end of round 1.

OL? Doesn't make sense. WR doesn't seem needed. TE value is iffy there. Perhaps, but it seems somewhat iffy. DL and LB don't seem to need a top pick. And on a side note, thing is, Wynn/Jackson/Grant lack pop. That's one thing Slaton would add to the mix.

This guy named Antoine Cason
Ive liked him for awhile and he would be good value late in the 1st

fenikz
10-31-2007, 10:42 AM
I really had a tough time on that call ... but at the end of the day, we're talking about arguably the most critical position on the OL. Grimm's good, but even back in Pittsburgh, he had some early round picks to work with. Maybe not first round, but I could definitely see an OT pick in day 1. Tis early, though.

In all honesty, I'd wait on LB. Obviously, not my call, but I think you could find a good LB at the top of round 2. If need be, deal up and snap up, say, a Dan Connor if he falls to the 2nd.

I'm not opposed to them grabbing a 1st day O-line man just not a 1st round one, but if they end up taking an OT in the 1st it's because Grimm is in love with the guy and I will have total confidence in that decision

BTW i would not be opposed to the Cardinals moving up for Phillips, just the thought of A Dub and him roaming around would scare the **** out of offenive cordinators

Joeyjr09
10-31-2007, 11:14 AM
While some of what you say about the Dolphins is true. I just don't understand your logic on Dorsey/McFadden.

Dorsey isn't likely in your eyes because he isn't a perfect fit, even tho he fills the Dolphins biggest need and has more value to them then any other player there despite not being 100 percent ideal for our D.

But then you think McFadden is a better pick? How does drafting a running back at number 1 overall so that he can back up a runningback you drafted 3 years ago at number 2 overall make any sense? RB is the only position on the field that the Dolphins don't seed to target.

The pick has to be Dorsey there.

thebow305
10-31-2007, 11:28 AM
1. Miami Dolphins

Pretty soon, itís going to be the John Beck era, and while I like Beck, I donít forsee him doing much winning. Huziengaís comments certainly wonít make anyone feel secure down there. If Huzienga overhauls things again, then shame on him. Give Cameron time. If you want to can Randy Mueller, eh, okay. But at least give Cameron some time. Iíd give Mueller a chance as well.
As has been discussed before, I donít think this is a particularly good year for the Dolphins to pick first overall. The talents donít match with what they need. I still think Beck will be given every chance to run with it, particularly if Cameron is around, and probably even if he isnít. This isntí a McMahon/Harrington situation Ė this is an early 2nd round pick we are talking about, and this is the guy they passed Brady Quinn for, so I think theyíll give him every shot. WR isnít likely, as value is iffy, and they did take Ginn Jr. and have Hagan as a decent option to develop. TE lacks value this high. Are there any DBís worth it here? DL fits look iffy. LB lacks value.
Itís just not a pretty picture. I really want to make a deal Ö but who? Atlanta doesnít seem likely to make the jump. Same goes for any team in the top 5. I guess the two teams I would look at would be Oakland (in a move up for McFadden) or Houston (also in a move up for McFadden). The latter lacks the assets to really make that move Ö the former, well, I just donít see it. I just donít see Chris Long as a fit, unless they try transitioning him to OLB, but maybe he ends up showcasing enough bulk for them to be convinced. Calais Campbell hasnít played well enough for me to think that even a stellar combine would push him up here.
Iím stuck making a pick, and itís not pretty. Jake Long is a thought, and he might actually work at LT for them. And once again, maybe my own biases come in play here, but Jake Long at first overall? Itís not as if the line has been so bad that they HAVE to go that route. At the end of the day, Iíll go with the same pick and rationale as before, and I know most Fins fans will say thereís no way it happens. But the pick here is Darren McFadden, which might catch several teams by surprise. The best way to develop a young QB and protect your defense is to offer him a strong run game. Ronnie Brown and Darren McFadden would be a nasty duo for Beck to work with, and allowing them to work some youth into that defense as the defense goes through a transition. Brownís coming off the torn ACL, has only 3 more years on his deal (sounds like a lot, but it really isnít), and as most know, the treads on RBís go out quicker than at most positions. They could even consider trading Brown after 08-09. I am a big fan of McFadden, which is surprising due to my distaste for tall RBís. That said, I think Darren, with a good time, could be considered a true elite RB prospect, that is, a guy that would elite each year.

Miami Dolphins pick: RB Darren McFadden, Arkansas


While I understand your reasonings and agree with most of them I see a problem still with the outcome here. Unless we look to trade Ronnie brown now (possible for a 1st is offered it would be hard to pass up). I think the best pick here is the elite DT/DE Glenn Dorsey. No he does not project perfectly into a 3-4 system if we ran just a 3-4 system. But we have run a hybrid system (40/60% split) for a while now and we have the potential to turn back into the old 4-3 system. There has been a lot of talk in south florida of returning to the 3-4 system.

If we do that then the pick of Dorsey is perfect for that spot.

4 linemen
JT-Dorsey-Wright-Roth
Gives us a big 4 bodies. Rodrique Wright has looked good at the DE/DT slot in the switching back and forth and Dorsey would give us the depth for the system to make it work and protect our linebacker core.

LBs
Crowder- Zach (draft pick) Ė Porter

While I donít feel porter is perfect for the linebackers in this system I do feel that he could be adequate with some time and skill.

I feel that there is not a DB at the top of the draft I consider worthy of a top 5 pick (Phillips is wonderful but not that good). I believe to save face that beck shall be the primary QB talent we look over for a while still. I believe that Mueller and Cam will be here after Wayneís words so I expect to see them stick with their choice over Quinn.

All of that said WR, QB, RB are all our as picks.

TE Ė There is not a 1st round or even debatable 2nd round talent in the draft.

RT Ė A need but not a top of the board need for us, really our line has been wonderful and Mueller has a history of not drafting first round linemen. If you look backwards he likes the flashy players and big time dline most of all. (Flashy wr taken last year blah should of taken okoye).

Campbell and long are both nice talents. Campbell has a far higher upside but there are questions over him for work ethic and the like. Long has his own set of questions and although I think he is a nice talent I believe he is being over hyped because whom he is the son of.

I really see it as Glenn Dorsey has to be the pick barring a poor showing or major injury. Unless we work out a trade, holding Atlanta hostage, or another team for McFadden or one of the QBs if one of the shines over the others and just is stand out for a need.

Would Carolina jump up for a high price? Would Minnesota? If Ryan continues to see his stock rise and puts himself as ďThe talentĒ for the draft, how hard will it be to pass up such a player for one of those teams. Jumping to the top of the board to get their elite QB could become an option then.


Personally I am hoping for a trade back, getting some line talent in the 1st round (or Phillips for the secondary). And hoping that Dre Moore is sitting there at the top of the 2nd round for a stud Nose Tackle for us in either system. The 90s dolphins were built on defense around 2 players Bowens and Gardner. They were monsters on the inside and really helped to keep the team a major contender till finally their careers ended. I want another Tim Bowens, a monster in the middle to keep the team safe from the run.


I also think the dolphins will take a little less then the true value of the pick to move back for more picks.


I hate people talking about trading Ronnie, why would we do that? He was the best back in the league before he went down. Screw LT.... He has a GREAT team around him with maybe the best line in the league, and still wasn't putting great numbers compared to Ronnie when RB has arguably the worst overall supporting cast in the league. Ronnie is not the problem, the rest of the team is! So drop all that talk right now.... a trade back is what we need. And if not, then we need Dorsey or Calais or Kenny.

toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 11:57 AM
The Oakland contingent is pleased. Sucked seeing both McFadden and Long go ahead of us, though Ellis is a more than adequate consolation.

i had a tough time figuring Ellis or Campbell there for this mock. I g could easily see Campbell's upside meriting a top 5 pick, even if his play probably hasn't merited it so far. That said, Ellis has good upside, he offers a good young body inside, is probably deserving of a top 7 or so nod right now, end depth in the draft is better than tackle depth, IMO, and the whole USC connection.

49ers169
10-31-2007, 12:02 PM
Finally someone giving the 49ers a defensive lineman. Right there I would like Quentin Groves but Dre Moore is a great fit for us. He gives us a lot of versatility on the defensive line and you are right that he will probably get most of the time at the end of position.

Turtlepower
10-31-2007, 12:03 PM
Finally someone giving the 49ers a defensive lineman.

I was first. =(
My Second Mock (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14052)

But it really is the best pick.

toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 12:04 PM
I think it's just the two trades in the top 10 that threw me off. I don't know when the last time that happened, and find it unlikely considering how scare this draft is on elite talent.

In terms of other things I find unlikely, you could start with McFadden at #1. Runningback is about the only position the Dolphins have solidified. Albeit it still has problems, but you could start just about anywhere else and it would make more sense to me.

At this point I don't see anyone trading up to #6 for Phillips, but that's likely more of a read on what I think his value is, which is borderline top 10. I supposed a team crying for safety help would make the move considering the lack of depth, but the Eagles have just as equally large concerns elsewhere.

Rashard Mendenhall and Kevin Smith the #2 and #3 backs? Meh...Mendenhall I could see, and I know you aren't the only one high on Smith, but I just don't see that happening in actuality.

Donnie Avery in the 1st round would suprise me quite a bit as well.

It's good stuff though...I didn't mean it pejoratively.

Do you have Maualuga and King going back, or do you just not consider them 1st rounders?

I also noted Dan Conner outside the 1st round, and tend to agree. I think he's got the value of a mid-to-late but could easily slip considering the how little value the position has right now.

Didn't take it that way. Just curious.

Let's see (combining answers to your back to back posts)

I don't think 2 trades into the top 10 is that crazy ... but certainly debatable. I mean, it's not as if I had anyone trade into the top 5.

Miami - What do they do at 1? Do you really find Long worth it (I think that was the pick you gave them, right)? Is OL really that glaring a need to go first overall? I wish there was a trade that made sense.

Eagles - Probably should've scanned to see if there's any Eagles responses first. But at almost every other position, they have some young talent on hand with a decent level of potential. CB is definitely a thought, so I guess they could sit back, take the top corner, and then draft a safety in round 2.

In terms of Maualuga and Connor, I just don't view either one as sure fire first round locks, and considering the position, I can see some slippage.

As for King, I do admit that I probably made a mistake with the cornerbacks in this mock. I probably would like to get a 2nd cornerback in there the next time around, maybe a 3rd. That said, I'm not sure Justin King is a first round lock.

toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 12:06 PM
I'd hate to see us pick up Dorsey, to be honest...I just think he plays a little too spotty. I don't know, I mean I do love the idea of an interior force on our DL, but we have Trey Lewis as our Nose now, a rookie, and then we have Babineux (a Coleman Clone) in the UT position who's only a 3rd year guy, who last year was 3rd or 5th (can't recall) in the NFL for DTs in TFL...The kid can really play. I don't see DT depth being an issue for us, but getting a force like Dorsey could be great as well. I'd love to see a trade down scenario happen for Atlanta if McFadden was off the board.

Thing is, trading into the top 5 is just hard, and as of now, it's hard to imagine which player would entice a team to move up that much to 2nd overall, especially considering that I don't expect the Falcons to want to fall that much.

Let me ask you ... what would you do in that situation if you had to make a pick?

toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 12:08 PM
hmmmm. . . . no quetin groves in the 1st round - i find that both a little suspect and interesting as i would love to see the rams pick him up in round 2.

on c.long for the rams in the 1st - i could defineately see the current regime take long at 3. he's their type of guy and they need a de. i would guess you nailed that one.
the rub is that you can't count on the current regime being there come the off-season, as you pointed out.

here's a potentiality mockers may want to consider while pondering the rams first round pick :
steven jackson is only under contract through the 2008 season. what if he possibly has the temperment to prefer testing the f.a. market having lost confidence in the rams franchise.
if he doesn't extend with the rams before the end of next april, darren mcfadden may look very attractive to the rams.
just sayin'

I did try to get Quentin Groves in, and admittedly, I hurried the latter part of the first, where the potential of trades is usually higher. Thing is, I'm not a huge fan of Groves. No specific reason, in all honesty, and if he burns a 4.4ish time, as some have rumored, then I'll definitely have to move him up.

49ers169
10-31-2007, 12:10 PM
I was first. =(
My Second Mock (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14052)

But it really is the best pick.

My bad, I didn't see your mock and yes it really is the best pick.

Turtlepower
10-31-2007, 12:14 PM
My bad, I didn't see your mock and yes it really is the best pick.

Don't be upset, you have great insight in your mock and a lot of my picks were actually inspired from your past mocks. I don't do this for a living, so I try to see who everyone thinks their biggest needs are and then look at it myself. Anyway, your mock is better than mine. =D

toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 12:14 PM
This guy named Antoine Cason
Ive liked him for awhile and he would be good value late in the 1st

Nice corner, and certainly corner is possible. That said, eh, Cason ... haven't been big on him since his sophomore year. Guess anything's possible late first, though.

toonsterwu
10-31-2007, 12:39 PM
Dolphins responses -

Maybe you guys are right in the end and it is Dorsey. That certainly seems to be the consensus pick out of you guys right now.

At the end of the day (or more appropriately, a day later), I look at

a) Ronnie Brown coming off a torn ACL
b) Protecting John Beck
c) Giving John Beck every chance to succeed in 2008
d) To a lesser extent, Randy Mueller's drafting history

It has less to do with Dorsey's fit, than those three factors, although that was a consideration. Yes, Brown was, if I remember, just an ACL tear, and no ligament damage, so the prognosis is probably in the positive direction. That said, knee injuries are notoriously problematic for RB's, and this current leadership group probably has to show good growth next year to come back for a year 3 (assuming they make it to next year, if they don't, if even some changes happen, then everything is up in the air).

That being said, the one thought that did cross my mind today was that, if I have McFadden worthy of going first overall, then he has to tear off a top 40 time, put up good quickness numbers, and check out medically. If all those happen, that probably increases the chances that someone decides to bolt up.

Now, all that being said, tis early, and I acknowledge that McFadden isn't the consensus choice (to say the least). If they feel comfortable about a RB in round 2, they could go for one there. Short of it is, I'll be surprised if they don't bring in to protect against Ronnie Brown not being 100%. Could it be a veteran FA? Perhaps ... but I'm not sure I see that.

nvot9
10-31-2007, 01:32 PM
I really really can't see, at this point, the Jets going with Jake Long. I'm not against taking him, I wouldn't mind it at all given how poorly their line has performed on the right side. I think it will really depend on who they pick up during FA, if they pick up a guy like Faneca or Smiley (who can be their RT) then Jake Long wouldn't make much sense. Assuming they get neither though, then RT might just be what the doctor ordered. I don't know though, with Jets fans getting restless and ready to pick apart Mangini, he may be hard pressed not to go for a skilled position player or big play making kind of player, ala Quentin Groves or Darren McFadden (if he were to be available).

D-Unit
10-31-2007, 02:31 PM
Love Malcolm with the first pick, but Donny Avery with the second? Ironically, I mocked Dallas taking him in my own mock in the Dallas thread... but that was with a 3rd round pick. LOL. Love his speed which is desperately needed in Big D, but we'll have to see how that one pans out.

Surprised by the RBs selected. Jon Stewart to me is my personal favorite, so landing him would be dreamy. Julius has already started to see his carries diminish. With him being a FA, I think the organization is ready to move on in another direction.

Surprised to see Felix Jones left out of Round 1 as well. I know you had him in there last time.

Chucky
10-31-2007, 03:28 PM
I think that if the bucs were to go RB in round one they would either go with Jon Stewart or Felix Jones

fischbowl
10-31-2007, 05:51 PM
I love Jackson toonster. We do need to add height at WR though, so Malcolm Kelly is probably the best pick there.

Finsfan79
11-01-2007, 08:58 AM
I hate people talking about trading Ronnie, why would we do that? He was the best back in the league before he went down. Screw LT.... He has a GREAT team around him with maybe the best line in the league, and still wasn't putting great numbers compared to Ronnie when RB has arguably the worst overall supporting cast in the league. Ronnie is not the problem, the rest of the team is! So drop all that talk right now.... a trade back is what we need. And if not, then we need Dorsey or Calais or Kenny.

Get him to play 16 games and I will agree with you but I feel his success was more from the Oline this year then from him. I am not in the Ronnie brown camp still sorry.

Finsfan79
11-01-2007, 09:08 AM
Dolphins responses -

Maybe you guys are right in the end and it is Dorsey. That certainly seems to be the consensus pick out of you guys right now.

At the end of the day (or more appropriately, a day later), I look at

a) Ronnie Brown coming off a torn ACL
b) Protecting John Beck
c) Giving John Beck every chance to succeed in 2008
d) To a lesser extent, Randy Mueller's drafting history

It has less to do with Dorsey's fit, than those three factors, although that was a consideration. Yes, Brown was, if I remember, just an ACL tear, and no ligament damage, so the prognosis is probably in the positive direction. That said, knee injuries are notoriously problematic for RB's, and this current leadership group probably has to show good growth next year to come back for a year 3 (assuming they make it to next year, if they don't, if even some changes happen, then everything is up in the air).

That being said, the one thought that did cross my mind today was that, if I have McFadden worthy of going first overall, then he has to tear off a top 40 time, put up good quickness numbers, and check out medically. If all those happen, that probably increases the chances that someone decides to bolt up.

Now, all that being said, tis early, and I acknowledge that McFadden isn't the consensus choice (to say the least). If they feel comfortable about a RB in round 2, they could go for one there. Short of it is, I'll be surprised if they don't bring in to protect against Ronnie Brown not being 100%. Could it be a veteran FA? Perhaps ... but I'm not sure I see that.

Well they really like chatman, he has ran good as well when given the chance. I think they will honestly keep with him. Plus the drafted Booker in the 3rd round last year for a RB as well. So together I feel they have depth there already even if Brown Faulters again.

Now I dont believe Ronnie brown is a top 10 back in the NFL. He cant stay healthy, this is 3 years in a row iwth the problems every year and he had issues in college and even high school. Is he very talented? Yes, but never been able to keep on the field fully. So I understand the need for depth there for the future.


AT the same time though if McFadden becomes the number 1 overall and posts a 4.3 type time and great in the drills and interviews then indeed I see a team trading up for him. A team in the top 5 in need of a marque name and face for the future to perhaps replace an old one.

That would mean 2 teams:
1. Atlanta - Yes they have other needs but with Brohm's preformance dropping off and depth in the QB spot for this draft he could be there in the 2nd round or later for them. With the loss of Vick as the selling point they could use a big time face and name for the future there and I believe McFadden would be the perfect fit. To do that they need to finish worse then the other team will mention, the jets. The value difference of the picks here wouldnt be too much different and I feel miami would take less for trading back.
2. Jets - In past years from time to time miami and the jets have traded. It is not something often to happen but it does happen. If They finish right there with Atlanta, McFadden would the perfect piece to add to their team for the future. Specially if he is the surefire number 1 talent in the draft (this is all assuming that of course). A perfect face to replace Curtis Martin and be the key drive behind that young talented oline that they have.

Now assuming the top pick is worth 3k.
Assuming the Jets or Atlanta finishes 2-4 range each, then one could assume that the difference in value is not horrid for the long term affect upon the teams. (2600-1800).

If the Jets finish 2nd worst, and Atlanta finishes third then could easily hop the jets. 800 pts difference between 1 and 3rd so consider that a 1st next year or a 2nd and 4th this year(less then full value by a bit).

Either way if McFadden becomes as high profile for the draft as you believe he will be indeed between those two teams that need a RB badly there could be a great fit for one of them for a trade up.

Miami drops to 3rd or 4th snags between Phillips, Dorsey, Campbell for a choice and gets more picks as they have so many holes they make swiss cheese look like american.

T-RICH49
11-01-2007, 11:35 AM
I personally like Loadholt more then Oher for KC.I doubt Oher will be a OT at the next level and KC needs a pure OT but again that may be just me

BaLLiN
11-01-2007, 07:07 PM
I would prefer Cason and Talib (if you have him coming out) over Highsmith. I am a believer of the idea that a LB can be taken in the later rounds at similar value to a 1st round LB, so I would prefer CB.

But great job with the mock. No one puts as much effort or thought into the mock as you do toonster. =D

Id take them or henderson over highsmith, but i haven't seen highsmith at all

Scotty D
11-01-2007, 07:12 PM
I would be fine with Harvey. Did you come close to giving them an OT or CB?

toonsterwu
11-01-2007, 09:51 PM
Whoa ... completely forgot about my own mock the last day or so ... probably because I was working on a new one..

Let's see, quick comments -

Lions - I was somewhat locked in on DE this time around ... maybe too locked in ... thinking about it now, Harvey might be a tad similar to Kalimba Edwards ... that said, as of now, my next mock has the Lions with an end still ...

Giants - I got a little tired at the end of all that ... so Highsmith really isn't something that I really like, but more the name that popped in my mind ... that said, i do like Highsmith as a player ... but i probably need to give it some more thought depending on how the order stacks for me after this week

T-Rich - I think some teams will give Oher a shot at tackle ... whether or not KC, I don't know ... I think that spot is pretty high for Loadholt ... but he could get there ... I thought I reached on Loadholt with where I put him

fisch - I don't see Malcolm Kelly as a fit for what Fairchild likes ...

Jets - I don't like the Long pick either ...

RB - well ... i'll post my top 5's below ...

Donnie Avery - I'll be curious how the WR's fall in general ... I think he's moving up ... although end of first is obviously quite high ...

ScottyD - um ... your sig says Jon Kinta ...

Other thoughts:

Is Brian Brohm a case of Rodgers/Quinn or Leinart? I'm having a hard time deciphering that one. That is, in Leinart's case, the knocks against him were largely either

a) there already (arm strength)
b) non-football related in some respects (oooh ... he's gonna want to party ... or whatever it was ...)

in Rodgers and Quinn's case, the knocks were very football related, and a lot more focused on QB ability, and in particular, QB IQ ... these knocks are substantially greater in importance than what Leinart was getting knocked for, and hence, both guys falling quite a bit ... is this the case with Brohm? or is it the former? I think it'll be interesting to track this perspective as things go on ...

Anyhow, someone once asked me for my top 5's ... i made some adjustments, figured i'd post some of my top 5's now (adjustments are why i've been working on a new mock already ... adjustments made after I made this mock) ... I'll try to put out longer lists later, as I'm still sorting it out ... random comments added ... nothing that interesting...

QB - Matt Ryan, Andre' Woodson, Brian Brohm, Joe Flacco, Erik Ainge

Interesting thing may be where Brohm falls. If he goes early, that could lead a team to push up to try and land someone late round 1, bringing a 4th QB into the first. If not, that could push the 2nd tier back.

RB - Darren McFadden, Rashard Mendenhall, Kevin Smith, Jonathan Stewart, Steve Slaton

Slaton edges out Jones for me. That said, after a couple poor games, James Davis is looking good again, and he's someone I really like. I like Mendenhall's burst and he got the edge over Smith/Stewart, but it was close for all 3.

WR - DeSean Jackson, Early Doucet, Malcolm Kelly, Keenan Burton, Donnie Avery

One of the harder positions to figure out after the top 3 for me. I like those 3 as the top 3. I'm a big fan of Burton, and I think if he runs a good time, he may slide up. Avery's been impressive this year. I think Avery/Douglas may lead some teams to pass on Jackson, as in all honesty, I don't see a substantial difference between the 3.

TE - Martin Rucker, John Carlson, Fred Davis, Jacob Tamme, Kolo Kapanui

Tough position to figure. Not a big fan of Davis. Can't put my finger on it. I think Rucker and Carlson are solid players. I don't expect any TE to go round 1, maybe 1 or 2 to go in round 2. Tamme is a tough figure. I want to say he seems like a poor man's Witten ... as I don't see the H-back type in him. Haven't seen much of Kolo ... but he's had a solid year and supposedly can run in the low 4.6's and perhaps the high 4.5's according to some.

OT - Jake Long, Ryan Clady, Sam Baker, Michael Oher, Phillip Loadholt

Long's going to hold the top spot, I think, barring a horrendous workout. I like Clady better, but gut feeling says Clady can't move up enough. If all the juniors came out, I think it'll be interesting to see who takes the 4th OT spot. Cherilus' struggles has dropped him a bit.

DE - Chris Long, Calais Campbell, Derrick Harvey, Vernon Gholston, Lawrence Jackson

Nothing too interesting here ... Campbell/Harvey/Gholston are all fairly close, but Campbell's upside should push him ahead ... I like Jackson ... not sure where to fit him in ...

DT - Glenn Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis, Marchondray Moore, Kentwan Balmer, Maurice Murray

First two seem pretty set. Still believe that Moore may make a postseason push. Putting Balmer up there because ... eh ... that seems to be the route everyone's going. To be honest, I still don't see a first round talent in Balmer. I think Murray's a bit underrated ... a bit similar to Moore in my opinion ... to be honest, I probably need to start looking at some junior DT's ... and considering them ... one or two may come out as they may work into the first round ... admittedly hadn't considered the juniors much

CB Malcolm Jenkins, Mike Jenkins, Brandon Flowers, Tracy Porter, Justin King

I'm very unsure about everything after the Jenkins. And Mike Jenkins has some off-field history that'll warrant checking out as well, so really, everything after Malcolm, who I think is the top dog, could undergo a lot of changes for me. I only see 2 or 3 CB's making round 1.

S Kenny Phillips, Reggie Smith, Jamar Adams, Josh Barratt, Tyrell Jackson

Well, it's Phillips ... and the rest. I'm not sold on Smith in the first ... but it's possible. I really like Jackson ... that said, admittedly may have him a bit overrated right now.

LB Keith Rivers, James Lauranitis, Erin Henderson, Beau Bell, Quentin Groves

Most reactions will probably be ... odd listing ... and I really should do two separate lists for LB's ... but haven't gotten around to splitting them all up ...

xooberon
11-02-2007, 02:03 PM
great panther pick