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Scotty D
11-01-2007, 11:28 PM
Who do you think is the better QB? Let's settle this in this thread. This poll is public and set to end before the big game.


Tom Brady

or

Peyton manning

Turtlepower
11-01-2007, 11:30 PM
Who do you think is the better QB? Let's settle this in this thread. This poll is public and set to end at 4 EST Sunday.


Tom Brady

or

Peyton manning

I love how this debate was not even close before this season, but as soon as Tom Brady gets receivers he is now instantaneously in the same class as Peyton. Peyton not only makes better reads, but he also has no baby mamas. =D

jballa838
11-01-2007, 11:33 PM
brady has gisele, but peyton has marvin.
edge peyton because the only balls gisele catches are mine on her chin

BUTerriers
11-01-2007, 11:37 PM
I love how this debate was not even close before this season, but as soon as Tom Brady gets receivers he is now instantaneously in the same class as Peyton. Peyton not only makes better reads, but he also has no baby mamas. =D

I think it was pretty close...One has still won two more Super Bowls than the other the last time I checked. Peyton has always has the better stats, but now it seems that has to do with the disparity between his and Brady's receivers. Now we see that Brady can put up numbers just as awe-inspiring as Manning when he is surrounded by skill players like the guys Manning has been playing with his whole career. Until Manning wins another two Super Bowls, you have to go with Brady here, I think...there's a reason why Marino is rarely considered the greatest QB of all time, but Montana is...

Turtlepower
11-01-2007, 11:40 PM
I think it was pretty close...One has still won two more Super Bowls than the other the last time I checked. Peyton has always has the better stats, but now it seems that has to do with the disparity between his and Brady's receivers. Now we see that Brady can put up numbers just as awe-inspiring as Manning when he is surrounded by skill players like the guys Manning has been playing with his whole career. Until Manning wins another two Super Bowls, you have to go with Brady here, I think...there's a reason why Marino is rarely considered the greatest QB of all time, but Montana is...

If Indy's defense played up to par as it did last year, he might have 2 more SBs. Obviously Tom Brady was a key factor in all 3 SBs, but I still would give Adam Vinaterri and NE's Defense the MVP before Brady.

BUTerriers
11-01-2007, 11:55 PM
If Indy's defense played up to par as it did last year, he might have 2 more SBs. Obviously Tom Brady was a key factor in all 3 SBs, but I still would give Adam Vinaterri and NE's Defense the MVP before Brady.

Definitely a valid argument...I think it would be fascinating to go back in time and somehow reverse roles to see how things turned out...How would Manning look with Troy Brown as his #1 but with a competent defense, and how would Brady look throwing to Harrison and Wayne but with the porous Indy defense we saw up until the 06 playoffs.

Still, Manning has been throwing to one of the best receivers of our generation his whole career, and has always had a good running game as well, while Brady has dealt with sub par players in both aspects. This game might be the first time the two are on a level playing field: this is the best defense the Colts have had since the beginning of Manning's career, and this is the best offense around Brady since the beginning of his career. It may not be a "winner take all" situation, but I would give the winner a definite edge in this argument.

yodabear
11-01-2007, 11:58 PM
Tom Brady beat the best team ever assembled in the 2001-2002 St. Louis Rams, so he gets my vote.

Turtlepower
11-02-2007, 12:00 AM
Tom Brady beat the best team ever assembled in the 2001-2002 St. Louis Rams, so he gets my vote.

There is one ultimate instrument of doom that Tom Brady lacks... Marshall Faulk!!!

Crazy_Chris
11-02-2007, 12:01 AM
I watched the episode of "Who Is..." today and they broke down this debate into ten topics...

Footwork/Mobility, Arm Strength, Accuracy, Decision Making, Football IQ, Clutch Performance, Toughness, Leadership, Accomplishments(can't remember the 10th help would be appreciated if you watched the show and remember what i am missing)

Tom Brady
Footwork/Mobility
Career Accomplishments
Clutch Performance

Peyton Manning
Arm Strength
Accuarcy
Decision Making
Football IQ
Leadership
Toughness

Of the 9 i can remember thats how they broke it down and in the end Manning had Brady in 7 of the 10 categories. I thought it was an interesting show and I don't disagree my vote goes to Manning.

Don Vito
11-02-2007, 12:13 AM
I love how this debate was not even close before this season, but as soon as Tom Brady gets receivers he is now instantaneously in the same class as Peyton. Peyton not only makes better reads, but he also has no baby mamas. =D

In all fairness, Manning has had top tier receivers, tight end, line, and backs for a while. I think they are both elite, potential HOF QBs but I will take Brady because he has more rings and is on pace to put up (arguably) better numbers this season then Manning ever has, and this is the first year that he has elite talent around him, something Manning has had for a long time.

Shiver
11-02-2007, 12:57 AM
I have been saying Tom Brady for the last few years now. The fact that he's having the kind of success that he has had because of Moss and Welker is no surprise to me.

Moses
11-02-2007, 12:58 AM
Pointless argument. Neither is "better" than the other. They are just too close to make a call. Similar to Marino vs. Favre.

Shiver
11-02-2007, 01:02 AM
Pointless argument. Neither is "better" than the other. They are just too close to make a call. Similar to Marino vs. Favre.

I would say that but Manning's below average post-season performances still bother me. Sure he 'won' the Super Bowl last year, but he still played well below his typical level.

kwilk103
11-02-2007, 01:14 AM
manning

without the "tuck rule" brady doesnt win 3 sb's same with belichek; the hero of 2 of the sb's was vinateri and if he misses those 2 kicks belichek isnt a genious

another interesting fact---belichek was the dc of giants team that beat the bills; he chose to let thurman thomas beat them---he did running for over 130 yds, and they were in position to win until norwood missed the kick

interesting to see how close these 2 are to not being labeled as 2 of the greatest

Wyndham
11-02-2007, 07:16 AM
Definitely Manning. No doubt about that in my mind.

Talk about receivers all you want but it is Brady who lucked into the far better situation -- Bill Belichick and New England's consistently good defenses far outweigh any advanage Manning had with his supporting cast on the offensive side of the ball. In fact, Belichick alone trumps anything Manning has ever had. His coaching is tough to put into words.

Watchman
11-02-2007, 10:39 AM
manning

the hero of 2 of the sb's was vinateri



I think that those were clutch kicks in big time games. But, you can't discount the clutch drives engineered by the QB to get the team into field goal position to attempt the kick. A lot of things had to happen to get Vinateri onto the field to kick a couple of game winning field goals in those Super Bowls, and all of them were clutch. Come one did anyone really think that Brady was going to get the Pats into position to kick a field goal for the win vs. the Rams in 2001?

The way I look at this is it is like asking someone if they want a Ferrari or a Lamborghini - you can't really go wrong with either one. I've always thought Brady was a little better because he's accomplished more with less offensive talent than Manning, and Brady's clutch resume is better than Manning's.

DeathbyStat
11-02-2007, 10:54 AM
Brady

Manning was terrible in last years playoffs eventhough his team won the super bowl

Diehard
11-02-2007, 11:10 AM
Of the 9 i can remember thats how they broke it down and in the end Manning had Brady in 7 of the 10 categories. I thought it was an interesting show and I don't disagree my vote goes to Manning.

"Clutch Performance" > all other categories combined. Brady FTW.

Vince Lombardi
11-02-2007, 11:17 AM
Manning, put him on the Pats and they'd be just as unstoppable as they are now. Put Brady on the Colts and I'm not sold that he can carry that team the way Peyton has for years now.

duckseason
11-02-2007, 01:24 PM
I'm not sure I can put one definitively ahead of the other, but if you put a gun to my head I'd probably have to choose Manning. I just think that if you add both these guys to any team in the league, Manning would make the bigger impact. Tough call though, and I could be wrong about that.

Splat
11-02-2007, 01:27 PM
Brady the guy just wins.

sweetness34
11-02-2007, 01:29 PM
It's way too close to call but I'll lean towards Peyton. Yea I understand the whole "winning" thing but if we're talking about QB play what Peyton does on the field I have never seen before. The man calls his own plays from the line of scrimmage. His ability to read defenses is something I've never seen before.

Tom Brady is no slouch though, he's got targets to throw to and he's taking advantage of it by putting up monster stats.

Xiomera
11-02-2007, 01:30 PM
Ooo, I love these debates . . . I mean arguments . . . I mean opportunities to watch people take these threads far too personally . . .

For the Record, my choice remains Tom Brady.

Splat
11-02-2007, 01:31 PM
Tom Brady is no slouch though, he's got targets to throw to and he's taking advantage of it by putting up monster stats.

Even with out the great targets Brady got the job done that is why I'm going with him.

cordscords
11-02-2007, 01:38 PM
Peyton by a nose.

SFbear
11-02-2007, 01:38 PM
One distinction that doesn't get a lot of discussion is that Brady has proven he can play in the elements while Manning has not. That is why for Chicago I would choose Brady over Manning even though I prefer Manning in most other categories.

duckseason
11-02-2007, 01:41 PM
Oh, and for the record, I'm picking the Pats to win the game. So don't get my pick of Peyton confused with a pick of the Colts. Pats are going 16-0 this year. Just look at that glazed over look in Belichick's eyes. I don't think he's slept a wink since draft day. He's out for blood.

Turtlepower
11-02-2007, 01:42 PM
One distinction that doesn't get a lot of discussion is that Brady has proven he can play in the elements while Manning has not. That is why for Chicago I would choose Brady over Manning even though I prefer Manning in most other categories.

Didn't he "fumble" the ball in a snowy winter night???

duckseason
11-02-2007, 01:44 PM
Didn't he "fumble" the ball in a snowy winter night???

No silly, that wasn't a fumble. It was a "tuck."

MaxV
11-02-2007, 01:45 PM
Well, for homeristic reasons, I voted for Manning, but it's VERY close.

I have always had a huge amount of respect for Tom Brady and always thought of him as a great player.

These 2 are the best of our generation and I believe that both have a shot to be considered top 5 all time.

I believe that both have already proved enough to be top 10 all time.

MaxV
11-02-2007, 01:48 PM
One distinction that doesn't get a lot of discussion is that Brady has proven he can play in the elements while Manning has not. That is why for Chicago I would choose Brady over Manning even though I prefer Manning in most other categories.

What about last year's rain-soaked Super Bowl?

Shiver
11-02-2007, 01:56 PM
What about last year's rain-soaked Super Bowl?

Rain in Miami is no where close to ice storm in New England.

MaxV
11-02-2007, 02:23 PM
Rain in Miami is no where close to ice storm in New England.

You are absolutely right about that.

Under those conditions, defenses have an advantage and at that time Pats' D was better then Colts' D by a HUGE margin.

Don't get me wrong, Brady is a GREAT player and he earned all of those championship rings.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 02:36 PM
Pointless argument. Neither is "better" than the other. They are just too close to make a call. Similar to Marino vs. Favre.

Marino never held the all-time interception record. I think that pretty much ends the Marino vs. Favre arguement.

Smooth Criminal
11-02-2007, 02:36 PM
I can't believe the voting is even. People on this board sure do live for the moment.

Peyton will have all of the records by the time he is done with his career. He has been better than Brady has up until this year and I refuse to say Brady is better because he was on a better team that won superbowls and has played great to start the season.

BrownsTown
11-02-2007, 02:40 PM
Peyton by a good margin for me. He controls the game, every last bit of it. There is no facet of his game that isn't amazing besides mobility. Whenever I see him play I can see plainly this guy is special.

You could say this is like Montana-Marino, but would it be much of a debate if Marino won championships? I mean, Peyton got the monkey off his back and I'm sure he'll win another won (probably this year) plus those numbers, scary.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 02:42 PM
I can't believe the voting is even. People on this board sure do live for the moment.

Peyton will have all of the records by the time he is done with his career. He has been better than Brady has up until this year and I refuse to say Brady is better because he was on a better team that won superbowls and has played great to start the season.

Yeah but I think this year proves that the only thing Brady needed to put up monster numbers like Manning was a good group of receivers. That's something he's never had. Manning has had one of the top five receivers of all-time his entire career. Brady has been stuck with Troy Brown and David Givens. Now that Brady has weapons he's on pace to have the greatest single season in the history of the NFL.

JK17
11-02-2007, 02:49 PM
If you put a gun to my head I'd say Manning. I know Brady is having a much better year now that he finally has weapons, but I don't think Manning would be any worse then Brady were he on New England right now. That being said, clearly Brady is doing a lot to show he's the better QB this year, but I'd still prefer Peyton to Tom. Barely.

EDIT: Of course though, thats speculation about Mannign doing as well as Brady if he was on NE, and obviosuly cannot be proved, so I don't know how much weight that would hold.

BrownsTown
11-02-2007, 02:50 PM
Yeah but I think this year proves that the only thing Brady needed to put up monster numbers like Manning was a good group of receivers. That's something he's never had. Manning has had one of the top five receivers of all-time his entire career. Brady has been stuck with Troy Brown and David Givens. Now that Brady has weapons he's on pace to have the greatest single season in the history of the NFL.

Maybe you should look a bit past that. Look at the fact the Brady has an amazing defense this year, how much time he has on the field due to the defense getting 3 and outs all the time. The Colts run defense has always been awful so teams would run long drives on them and melt the clock. If you put Peyton on the team Brady's on right now, I say he puts up similar numbers.

MaxV
11-02-2007, 02:56 PM
This poll has been going back and forth.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 03:01 PM
Maybe you should look a bit past that. Look at the fact the Brady has an amazing defense this year, how much time he has on the field due to the defense getting 3 and outs all the time. The Colts run defense has always been awful so teams would run long drives on them and melt the clock. If you put Peyton on the team Brady's on right now, I say he puts up similar numbers.

Are you really suggesting that the cause of Brady's insane production this year is the Pats defense? Three words: Randy ****ing Moss.

BrownsTown
11-02-2007, 03:05 PM
Are you really suggesting that the cause of Brady's insane production this year is the Pats defense? Three words: Randy ****ing Moss.

The cause? Of course not, but it's a big contributer. Keep in mind Wes Welker and Donte Stallworth are also on that team too which means teams can't always double cover Moss.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-02-2007, 03:19 PM
I've always had it too close to call. I mean, think about Tom Brady, and there isn't much he can do that Peyton can't. And there isn't much Peyton can do that Brady can't. They both have:

Stellar Accuracy
Excellent pocket mobility
Good enough, but not spectacular arm strength
Excellent decision making
And a whole lot of other things.

McBain
11-02-2007, 03:25 PM
Brady is clutch. Now that he has the receivers he's simply dominant. Brady every time and twice on sundays.

BrownsTown
11-02-2007, 03:26 PM
Brady is clutch. Now that he has the receivers he's simply dominant. Brady every time and twice on sundays.

If by clutch you mean won championships with a defense Peyton wishes he had, then yes he is clutch. Peyton has done something Brady hasn't, won a Super Bowl without a dominant defense.

And in case you didn't notice, Manning has been "simply dominant" for a while now.

Watchman
11-02-2007, 03:44 PM
If by clutch you mean won championships with a defense Peyton wishes he had, then yes he is clutch. Peyton has done something Brady hasn't, won a Super Bowl without a dominant defense.

And in case you didn't notice, Manning has been "simply dominant" for a while now.

When I say Brady is "clutch" I mean driving his team to get into position for game winning field goals, in the Super Bowl, twice. That's clutch. The drive against the Rams with under 2 minutes left in the game is the definition of clutch.

That's really what is boils down to for me, for everyone saying Brady had the better D all these years, the fact remains that he's been trailing in the Super Bowl and needed to get his team into position to win, and he has.

They are both great QBs, but if the question is - who do you want at QB if your team is down by 2 points with 2 minutes left in the Super Bowl? It isn't a tough call.

It is basically flip a coin between the two, the clutch performance is all that separates Brady in my opinion.

MaxV
11-02-2007, 04:08 PM
When I say Brady is "clutch" I mean driving his team to get into position for game winning field goals, in the Super Bowl, twice. That's clutch. The drive against the Rams with under 2 minutes left in the game is the definition of clutch.

That's really what is boils down to for me, for everyone saying Brady had the better D all these years, the fact remains that he's been trailing in the Super Bowl and needed to get his team into position to win, and he has.

They are both great QBs, but if the question is - who do you want at QB if your team is down by 2 points with 2 minutes left in the Super Bowl? It isn't a tough call.

It is basically flip a coin between the two, the clutch performance is all that separates Brady in my opinion.

What about bring your team back from a 21-3 deficit late in the 2nd quarter in the AFC Championship game, with your defense giving up another 13 in the 2nd half?

Wouldn't you call that a clutch performance?

BTW, Manning may not have brought the Colts back from 2 point deficit in the Super Bowl against the Bears, but he did make sure they won the game.

What was he suppose to do? Make sure the Bears go up by 2 with 2:00 to go, just so he can have a drive for the win???

Crazy_Chris
11-02-2007, 04:18 PM
When I say Brady is "clutch" I mean driving his team to get into position for game winning field goals, in the Super Bowl, twice. That's clutch. The drive against the Rams with under 2 minutes left in the game is the definition of clutch.

That's really what is boils down to for me, for everyone saying Brady had the better D all these years, the fact remains that he's been trailing in the Super Bowl and needed to get his team into position to win, and he has.

They are both great QBs, but if the question is - who do you want at QB if your team is down by 2 points with 2 minutes left in the Super Bowl? It isn't a tough call.

It is basically flip a coin between the two, the clutch performance is all that separates Brady in my opinion.

I wouldn't agree with that statement. Peyton Manning is no slouch in the last 2 minutes of the game. Let not all forget the AFC chamionship game last year when peyton lead his offense down the field to score the game winning touchdown. Ironically also a game where brady threw the game ending interception.

Tom Brady has just had the oppurtunity's to do it in bigger games. Which isn't really Peyton's fault that his team hasn't been trailing late in the Super bowl. But since Tom has done it in bigger games I would take Tom Brady in the last 2 minutes but its not by much.

Edit:Good Point Max beat me to it lol

Addict
11-02-2007, 04:23 PM
I can't believe the voting is even. People on this board sure do live for the moment.

Peyton will have all of the records by the time he is done with his career. He has been better than Brady has up until this year and I refuse to say Brady is better because he was on a better team that won superbowls and has played great to start the season.

I'm sorry? Better team? What weapons did Tom Brady have on offense? And more notable, what kind of offense has Peyton Manning played most of his career? Peyton is a great player but if you're going by stats, you have to take into account that a defense doesn't help your stats as a QB at all (except for Vrabel, of course).

Manning has had a HOF receiver in Marvin Harrison, the best #2 in football in Reggie Wayne, one of the top O-lines including one of the best LT's in the game, an all-pro running back (let's not forget how good edge was in IND) and if we're talking more recently a superb TE in Dallas Clark.

Brady didn't have those luxuries and STILL measures up pretty well against Manning, measuring from Brady's first start to now.

Manning is a fantastic QB who will dance into the HOF, but I think Brady is better.

Crazy_Chris
11-02-2007, 04:27 PM
I'm sorry? Better team? What weapons did Tom Brady have on offense? And more notable, what kind of offense has Peyton Manning played most of his career? Peyton is a great player but if you're going by stats, you have to take into account that a defense doesn't help your stats as a QB at all (except for Vrabel, of course).

Manning has had a HOF receiver in Marvin Harrison, the best #2 in football in Reggie Wayne, one of the top O-lines including one of the best LT's in the game, an all-pro running back (let's not forget how good edge was in IND) and if we're talking more recently a superb TE in Dallas Clark.

Brady didn't have those luxuries and STILL measures up pretty well against Manning, measuring from Brady's first start to now.

Manning is a fantastic QB who will dance into the HOF, but I think Brady is better.

That is not true Defense Contributes to arguably the single most important stat as a Professional QB Wins Vs Losses.

MaxV
11-02-2007, 04:31 PM
I'm sorry? Better team? What weapons did Tom Brady have on offense? And more notable, what kind of offense has Peyton Manning played most of his career? Peyton is a great player but if you're going by stats, you have to take into account that a defense doesn't help your stats as a QB at all (except for Vrabel, of course).

Manning has had a HOF receiver in Marvin Harrison, the best #2 in football in Reggie Wayne, one of the top O-lines including one of the best LT's in the game, an all-pro running back (let's not forget how good edge was in IND) and if we're talking more recently a superb TE in Dallas Clark.

Brady didn't have those luxuries and STILL measures up pretty well against Manning, measuring from Brady's first start to now.

Manning is a fantastic QB who will dance into the HOF, but I think Brady is better.

I agree on a lot of your points, except for the one that states defense doesn't help QB stats.

Keep in mind that when an opposition is able to consistantly sustain long, time-consuming drives against your D, your offense will have less time/opportunities.

Now, obviously, if your D is completely terrible and the opposing O can score on it within a minute THEN the QB will have more time to add to his stats.

duckseason
11-02-2007, 04:31 PM
I'm sorry? Better team? What weapons did Tom Brady have on offense? And more notable, what kind of offense has Peyton Manning played most of his career? Peyton is a great player but if you're going by stats, you have to take into account that a defense doesn't help your stats as a QB at all (except for Vrabel, of course).

Manning has had a HOF receiver in Marvin Harrison, the best #2 in football in Reggie Wayne, one of the top O-lines including one of the best LT's in the game, an all-pro running back (let's not forget how good edge was in IND) and if we're talking more recently a superb TE in Dallas Clark.

Brady didn't have those luxuries and STILL measures up pretty well against Manning, measuring from Brady's first start to now.

Manning is a fantastic QB who will dance into the HOF, but I think Brady is better.

Actually, the defense has a direct impact on the stats of the offensive players. The quicker they get the offense back on the field, the more stats the offense can rack up. The more times they give the offense great field position, the more TD's the offense will score.

Even a bad defense will have an impact on the offense. If your defense is constantly giving up points, you likely trail in the 4th quarter quite often. This will enhance the QB's stats due to the fact they they are forced to throw more often, and that they are often playing against prevent coverages. Likewise, it will decrease the RB's stats due to the fact that they don't see the ball much while trailing late.

Twiddler
11-02-2007, 04:40 PM
I'll go with Peyton but it really isn't by much at all. It may be just a preference for how he plays and how long he has retained that high level.

Addict
11-02-2007, 04:42 PM
wow three nearly identical responses.... okay point taken. I ment to say is that a defense doens't catch you passes and stuff. But it was a stupid point I suppose.

stephenson86
11-02-2007, 05:11 PM
the way i see it, if you put them both on teams which are carbon copies and brady doesnt have his daddy bill talking in his ear, so two average head coaches, manning would totally out shine brady

not saying brady is bad but tbh i feel that if he didnt have bills teet to suckle on he would not be near manning

McBain
11-02-2007, 05:31 PM
If by clutch you mean won championships with a defense Peyton wishes he had, then yes he is clutch. Peyton has done something Brady hasn't, won a Super Bowl without a dominant defense.

And in case you didn't notice, Manning has been "simply dominant" for a while now.

If you didn't notice Brady is on pace to obliterate manning's record. If i remember correctly, it was the colts defense that carried them to the superbowl last year thanks largely in part to bob sanders. Peyton didn't play very well in the playoffs. Brady won those superbowls with dominant defense but the offense wasn't that great and Brady still played well even without the weapons Manning has had his entire career.

To parody mike tyson

He's coming for you man. His style is impetuous. His defense is impregnable, and He's just ferocious. He wants your heart. He will to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!

P-L
11-02-2007, 05:54 PM
Honestly, they are 1a and 1b for me. If I was forced to chose one, I'd take Brady but I'll admit that's my own personal bias. It really is too close to call. Anyone who claims that one is far superior to the other, is probably biased.

The biggest knock on Manning was that he never won the big one and was a choker. But last year he proved all the critics wrong and won the Super Bowl. Say what you want about the Colts defense in the playoffs last year, but there is no doubt in mind that Indianapolis doesn't win that Super Bowl without Manning.

The biggest knock on Brady has been the lack of elite numbers. He's posted very good numbers throughout his career, but never on the level of Manning's. Well, now that he's got a group of receivers comparable to the Colts, he's absolutely dominating. He's currently on pace to have the best single season in the history of the NFL. If he keeps his current pace up he'll finish 1st in Touchdowns, 2nd in Yards, 1st in QB Rating, and 1st in Completion Percentage.

Jvig43
11-02-2007, 06:04 PM
As of now, ill give it to peyton, but its extremely close, if brady ends this season with a ring, and has another year like this ones while breaking Mannings record, ill def give it to Brady. I like Brady better, but i think as of now you have to give the nod to Peyton.

Watchman
11-02-2007, 06:31 PM
What about bring your team back from a 21-3 deficit late in the 2nd quarter in the AFC Championship game, with your defense giving up another 13 in the 2nd half?

Wouldn't you call that a clutch performance?

BTW, Manning may not have brought the Colts back from 2 point deficit in the Super Bowl against the Bears, but he did make sure they won the game.

What was he suppose to do? Make sure the Bears go up by 2 with 2:00 to go, just so he can have a drive for the win???


I am not saying that Manning doesn't have clutch performances on his resume, he just isn't at the level of Brady, and that is the only thing that really separates them in my mind. Because up until last year, in a big game, no one could say Manning had that clutch performance. Brady established himself with the clutch performances right out of the gate.

But again, both are fantastic QBs, who will be in the HOF.

Vince Lombardi
11-02-2007, 07:01 PM
Clearly Adam Vinatieri is more important than either of these two QB's. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

yodabear
11-02-2007, 07:02 PM
I'd take either one of these 2 on my team. Especially over $65 million POS. Rule #15B on the boards is now Marc Bulger is not Mark Bulger anymore, his name is $65 million piece of ****.

KILLERSANTA
11-02-2007, 07:12 PM
P-money..........Yeah, I did just call him P-money!

TacticaLion
11-02-2007, 07:30 PM
In all fairness, Manning has had top tier receivers, tight end, line, and backs for a while. I think they are both elite, potential HOF QBs but I will take Brady because he has more rings and is on pace to put up (arguably) better numbers this season then Manning ever has, and this is the first year that he has elite talent around him, something Manning has had for a long time.
Manning may have had "top tier receivers, tight end, line, and backs", but New England has had a top-tier defense for a long time (hence the "more rings"). If Peyton had had a New England defense for the last X years, the "rings" may have been different... which is why the rings shouldn't be a main factor in determining which QB is better.

I wont take the rings away from Brady, but the situation(s) is (were) much different.

Comparing overall talent, I give the nod to Manning. Brady is an incredible player, but Manning is a football genius.

someone447
11-02-2007, 07:45 PM
Marino never held the all-time interception record. I think that pretty much ends the Marino vs. Favre arguement.

There is a huge thread about this, oh ya, it was one where you blindly ignored everything put in front of you that shows Marino and Favre were very, very, very close in every statistical comparison regarding interceptions.

But, back on topic, I prefer Manning by a slight margin. He is just unbelievable the things he does, and has done since he came into the league.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 07:47 PM
Manning may have had "top tier receivers, tight end, line, and backs", but New England has had a top-tier defense for a long time (hence the "more rings"). If Peyton had had a New England defense for the last X years, the "rings" may have been different... which is why the rings shouldn't be a main factor in determining which QB is better.

I wont take the rings away from Brady, but the situation(s) is (were) much different.

Comparing overall talent, I give the nod to Manning. Brady is an incredible player, but Manning is a football genius.

Yeah and if Brady had Manning's receivers he would be putting incredible numbers every year. Look at this year. Now that he has actual talent around him he's been downright dominanting. He's on pace for the greatest season ever.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 07:50 PM
There is a huge thread about this, oh ya, it was one where you blindly ignored everything put in front of you that shows Marino and Favre were very, very, very close in every statistical comparison regarding interceptions.

But, back on topic, I prefer Manning by a slight margin. He is just unbelievable the things he does, and has done since he came into the league.

Yeah, I ignored it because Green Bay homers are the worst in the NFL. Marino is light years ahead of Favre. He actually didn't make a minimum of six moronic throws a game. Then again you Packer fans don't call them crappy throws. They're "gunslings".

BrownsTown
11-02-2007, 07:57 PM
Yeah and if Brady had Manning's receivers he would be putting incredible numbers every year. Look at this year. Now that he has actual talent around him he's been downright dominanting. He's on pace for the greatest season ever.

Quit basing your argument over a freaking half season. Who knows, Brady could slow down and end up short of Manning's record. Or he could break it. We don't know yet. "On pace for" means absolutely nothing, especially when both of them have such extensive career's already.

And with those recievers, and that defense, and that pass happy near the goalline coach, Peyton would be putting up similar numbers.

someone447
11-02-2007, 08:00 PM
Yeah, I ignored it because Green Bay homers are the worst in the NFL. Marino is light years ahead of Favre. He actually didn't make a minimum of six moronic throws a game. Then again you Packer fans don't call them crappy throws. They're "gunslings".

No, they are moronic throws, but you still ignore the fact that Marino and Favre have essentially identical stats in regards to interceptions. But those moronic throws do make him fun to watch, because many times those moronic throws work out perfectly. What QB in NFL history has made some of the throws he makes? He is a gunslinger, but that isn't always a good thing.

Favre has only had one losing season in his career, he hasn't missed a single game since he started his first game for GB, most career wins for a QB, and he has a Super Bowl win.

Marino through an interception ones every 33.2 attempts, Favre once every 30.5 attempts. That means that Favre throws one extra interception every 400 attempts, that is less than 2 TDs different a season...

A quick cool fact, Favre's career passer rating is exactly the same as his 1992 passer rating(first year as starter.)

someone447
11-02-2007, 08:01 PM
Quit basing your argument over a freaking half season. Who knows, Brady could slow down and end up short of Manning's record. Or he could break it. We don't know yet. "On pace for" means absolutely nothing, especially when both of them have such extensive career's already.

And with those recievers, and that defense, and that pass happy near the goalline coach, Peyton would be putting up similar numbers.

Not to mention a coach who will continue throwing even when up by 4 TDs.

Xiomera
11-02-2007, 08:14 PM
Marino never held the all-time interception record. I think that pretty much ends the Marino vs. Favre arguement.

That is a terrible argument. Interceptions do not single handedly lose games for teams. Not to mention all of the TD passes that Favre has thrown, they tend to counter-act all the picks. Favre has thrown more pass attempts than anyone ever. By default he would have throw more picks.

BUTerriers
11-02-2007, 08:31 PM
Marino never held the all-time interception record. I think that pretty much ends the Marino vs. Favre arguement.

Marino never won a Super Bowl...I think it's definitely up for debate. You have to consider championships when you judge how good a player is. People are saying that Brady owes a lot of his success to Belicheck...Marino had the winningest coach in football history for a lot of his career and couldn't get it done. There are a lot of reasons for that, but in the end I think a lot of people would choose Favre over Marino if they wanted a franchise QB.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 08:32 PM
Quit basing your argument over a freaking half season. Who knows, Brady could slow down and end up short of Manning's record. Or he could break it. We don't know yet. "On pace for" means absolutely nothing, especially when both of them have such extensive career's already.

And with those recievers, and that defense, and that pass happy near the goalline coach, Peyton would be putting up similar numbers.

Yeah, I'm sure Brady is going to start throwing four interceptions a game and go to crap. :rolleyes:

Ewing
11-02-2007, 08:36 PM
Marino never won a Super Bowl...I think it's definitely up for debate. You have to consider championships when you judge how good a player is. .

I guess Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are better than Dan Marino and Randall Cunningham. The rings arguement is the biggest load of crap in the NFL. Teams win championships, not one player.

angelsdontkill
11-02-2007, 08:41 PM
In fact, Belichick alone trumps anything Manning has ever had. His coaching is tough to put into words.

"Cheating" isn't THAT hard to spell.


EDIT: And I'm going to have to say this: Anyone who thinks Brett Favre is a better quarterback than Dan Marino is completely out of their mind.

someone447
11-02-2007, 08:44 PM
I guess Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are better than Dan Marino and Randall Cunningham. The rings arguement is the biggest load of crap in the NFL. Teams win championships, not one player.

It isn't the only determining factor, but it does have to be taken into account. If not for the Super Bowls Brady has won, I wouldn't even put him in the same class as Manning. I can promise you that the Packers would not have won, or probably even made the Super Bowl if they didn't have Favre(unless they had Elway, who was the only other legitimate all-time great QB at the time.)

Ewing
11-02-2007, 08:47 PM
It isn't the only determining factor, but it does have to be taken into account. If not for the Super Bowls Brady has won, I wouldn't even put him in the same class as Manning. I can promise you that the Packers would not have won, or probably even made the Super Bowl if they didn't have Favre(unless they had Elway, who was the only other legitimate all-time great QB at the time.)

Steve Young and Dan Marino wanna have a talk with you.

someone447
11-02-2007, 08:48 PM
EDIT: And I'm going to have to say this: Anyone who thinks Brett Favre is a better quarterback than Dan Marino is completely out of their mind.

Tell me why that is, there stats are very comparable, Favre leading everything but INTs. Favre has a ring, more wins, never missed a game. They are VERY close, with Favre edging out Marino by the slightest of margins. Everyone makes a huge deal about the INTs, but it is only a difference of 1 INT every 400 attempts.

someone447
11-02-2007, 08:51 PM
Steve Young and Dan Marino wanna have a talk with you.

Marino was on the downside of his career, and I think Steve Young is overrated. He only played 3 complete years. There is no question he is a HOFer, but I wouldn't mention him in the same breath as Elway, Marino, Montana, and Favre. I have him in the second tier of great QBs.

I probably could have phrased it better. QBs who should be mentioned in a GOAT debate(even though I don't think Favre is, he at least deserves a mention, I have him 3rd in current era QBs, and 5th or 6th including the old timers.)

angelsdontkill
11-02-2007, 08:53 PM
Tell me why that is, there stats are very comparable, Favre leading everything but INTs. Favre has a ring, more wins, never missed a game. They are VERY close, with Favre edging out Marino by the slightest of margins. Everyone makes a huge deal about the INTs, but it is only a difference of 1 INT every 400 attempts.

Let's see.. similar stats with less interceptions, subpar teams that prevented super bowls, and injuries that kept him out of games (meaning he most likely would have more wins and more touchdowns had he played).

Boy, you're right, Marino isn't better at all!

neko4
11-02-2007, 08:55 PM
Umm Favre never had an elite WR outside of Sharpe and that was for a short time. Driver is no beter than Clayton

Ewing
11-02-2007, 08:58 PM
Tell me why that is, there stats are very comparable, Favre leading everything but INTs. Favre has a ring, more wins, never missed a game. They are VERY close, with Favre edging out Marino by the slightest of margins. Everyone makes a huge deal about the INTs, but it is only a difference of 1 INT every 400 attempts.

Dan Marino had more INT's than TD's in a season once and it was his final year. Favre? Three times. Marino threw for 4,000 yards six different times including the only 5,000 year in the history of the NFL. Favre threw for 4,000 yards four different time. Marino highest single season sack total was 28. Favre has had more than that eight different times.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 09:02 PM
Marino was on the downside of his career, and I think Steve Young is overrated. He only played 3 complete years. There is no question he is a HOFer, but I wouldn't mention him in the same breath as Elway, Marino, Montana, and Favre. I have him in the second tier of great QBs.

I probably could have phrased it better. QBs who should be mentioned in a GOAT debate(even though I don't think Favre is, he at least deserves a mention, I have him 3rd in current era QBs, and 5th or 6th including the old timers.)

You're kidding me, right? Young almost never got picked off and had a passer rating over 100 in a season five different times, something Favre has never and will never do. Just because you have a short career doesn't mean you're not among the GOAT. Look at Gale Sayers.

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:04 PM
Let's see.. similar stats with less interceptions, subpar teams that prevented super bowls, and injuries that kept him out of games (meaning he most likely would have more wins and more touchdowns had he played).

Boy, you're right, Marino isn't better at all!

The Packers would not have won a Super Bowl without Favre, Favre has played with 1 HOFer on either side of the ball, Reggie White. Favre has had a multitude of injuries, they just never kept him out of games. The difference in INTs is negligible. The number of wins and the Super Bowl is what gives it to Favre.

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:05 PM
You're kidding me, right? Young almost never got picked off and had a passer rating over 100 in a season five different times, something Favre has never and will never do. Just because you have a short career doesn't mean you're not among the GOAT. Look at Gale Sayers.

I wouldn't put Gale Sayers in a GOAT discussion either. He is also second tier great, he isn't on the level of Sanders, Payton, or Smith.

Xiomera
11-02-2007, 09:09 PM
I love how this transitioned into a Favre vs. Marino thread.

And I also love how ignorant many of youy are sounding.

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:10 PM
Dan Marino had more INT's than TD's in a season once and it was his final year. Favre? Three times. Marino threw for 4,000 yards six different times including the only 5,000 year in the history of the NFL. Favre threw for 4,000 yards four different time. Marino highest single season sack total was 28. Favre has had more than that eight different times.

It will probably be 5 times after this year. In terms of ability and statistics, they are neck and neck. Super Bowls are my last criteria, and since they are even before the Super Bowls, that gives Favre the edge.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 09:11 PM
The Packers would not have won a Super Bowl without Favre, Favre has played with 1 HOFer on either side of the ball, Reggie White. Favre has had a multitude of injuries, they just never kept him out of games. The difference in INTs is negligible. The number of wins and the Super Bowl is what gives it to Favre.

Did you completely ignore the numbers I posted? Wins and championships are because of a team, not one player. Marino had a horrid defense almost every single year behind him.

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:12 PM
I love how this transitioned into a Favre vs. Marino thread.

And I also love how ignorant many of youy are sounding.

Ewing brings Favre into any QB discussion.

I hope you aren't referring to me saying I sound ignorant, because I back up everything I say with stats. And to claim that Marino/Favre is anything but neck and neck is just plain hating/homerism, which is why I said Favre by the slimmest of margins.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 09:12 PM
It will probably be 5 times after this year. In terms of ability and statistics, they are neck and neck. Super Bowls are my last criteria, and since they are even before the Super Bowls, that gives Favre the edge.

Let's go through this logic. As you say they're comparable in every number except for sacks and interceptions. Both of which Favre has far more yet you think Favre is better. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 09:13 PM
Ewing brings Favre into any QB discussion.

I hope you aren't referring to me saying I sound ignorant, because I back up everything I say with stats. And to claim that Marino/Favre is anything but neck and neck is just plain hating/homerism, which is why I said Favre by the slimmest of margins.

Someone brought up Favre before I did. Don't blame it on me.

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:14 PM
Did you completely ignore the numbers I posted? Wins and championships are because of a team, not one player. Marino had a horrid defense almost every single year behind him.

Did you ignore that I put the wins and Super Bowl as the absolute last criteria, only used to break what is essentially a tie.

Favre threw 30+ TDs 8 times, Marino only 4. We aren't looking at specific seasons, we are looking at the body of work as a whole.

BrownsTown
11-02-2007, 09:16 PM
Ewing managed to make this about Favre. Let's see if he can go for the gold and turn this into a Barry Bonds hatred thread.

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:16 PM
Someone brought up Favre before I did. Don't blame it on me.

He said it was too close to call, like Marino/Favre.

You turned it into a debate with your Favre bashing.

Xiomera
11-02-2007, 09:18 PM
Did you ignore that I put the wins and Super Bowl as the absolute last criteria, only used to break what is essentially a tie.

Favre threw 30+ TDs 8 times, Marino only 3. We aren't looking at specific seasons, we are looking at the body of work as a whole.

Yeah, this dude is throwing out numbers like # of times each QB was sacked in a season. That has everything to do with the quality of the offensive line (i.e. The team around the QB), and yet he disregards the fact that Favre has more career victories, stating that wins are merely a team statistic that is not a good representation of how good the QB is.

You can't bring up stats that are dependant on other players if you are gonna say the fact that Favre having more wins is insignificant merely because football is a team sport.

I think I just won.

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:24 PM
Yeah, this dude is throwing out numbers like # of times each QB was sacked in a season. That has everything to do with the quality of the offensive line (i.e. The team around the QB), and yet he disregards the fact that Favre has more career victories, stating that wins are merely a team statistic that is not a good representation of how good the QB is.

You can't bring up stats that are dependant on other players if you are gonna say the fact that Favre having more wins is insignificant merely because football is a team sport.

I think I just won.

Ya, I don't get it. No Packer fan on this site has ever said that Favre is far and away better than Marino. Saying they are very close, but Favre is slightly ahead based on the Super Bowl and wins is not being a homer. It is objectively looking at their careers.

Claiming Marino is so far ahead of Favre that it isn't even a discussion is just unabashed Favre hating.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 09:25 PM
Yeah, this dude is throwing out numbers like # of times each QB was sacked in a season. That has everything to do with the quality of the offensive line (i.e. The team around the QB), and yet he disregards the fact that Favre has more career victories, stating that wins are merely a team statistic that is not a good representation of how good the QB is.

You can't bring up stats that are dependant on other players if you are gonna say the fact that Favre having more wins is insignificant merely because football is a team sport.

I know sacks have to do with an offensive line but a lot of has to do with getting rid of the ball. Marino was tremendous getting away from sacks. Favre was and still is pretty bad at doing so. I don't really have a "sacks avoided" stat so that was the best I could come up with.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 09:29 PM
Ewing managed to make this about Favre. Let's see if he can go for the gold and turn this into a Barry Bonds hatred thread.

Threads get derailed all the time. This was a thread about comparing two quarterbacks. It was bound to lead to more comparisons.

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:29 PM
I know sacks have to do with an offensive line but a lot of has to do with getting rid of the ball. Marino was tremendous getting away from sacks. Favre was and still is pretty bad at doing so. I don't really have a "sacks avoided" stat so that was the best I could come up with.

Well, Favre has about 1800 more rushing yards then Marino. Probably offsetting the loss of yards for sacks.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 09:32 PM
Well, Favre has about 1800 more rushing yards then Marino. Probably offsetting the loss of yards for sacks.

On 239 more attempts. I'm not saying Favre sucks or that Marino is far and away a better quarterback. However, he's made too many dumbass decisions in his career for me to put him ahead of Marino.

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:37 PM
On 239 more attempts. I'm not saying Favre sucks or that Marino is far and away a better quarterback. However, he's made too many dumbass decisions in his career for me to put him ahead of Marino.

Thats the thing, you only remember Favres more because they are more recent. Marino had 1 int less per 400 attempts. He made plenty of dumbass decisions also. They are neck and neck, to say one is slightly better than the other is subjective, but no matter which way you lean, it can only be by a hair.

I think Favre is a better QB because I know the Packers would have had A TON more losing seasons if it wasn't for Favre. He just knows how to win games, he just has IT. Not to say Marino didn't because he kept a poor team at mediocre to above average. But Favre kept an average team at elite for a few years, and a poor team at above average.

Xiomera
11-02-2007, 09:44 PM
On 239 more attempts. I'm not saying Favre sucks or that Marino is far and away a better quarterback. However, he's made too many dumbass decisions in his career for me to put him ahead of Marino.

That's over a 7 yard average. Not even Walter Payton or Jim Brown had those stats . . . lol http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

BrownsTown
11-02-2007, 09:45 PM
That's over a 7 yard average. Not even Walter Payton or Jim Brown had those stats . . . lol http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

Brett Favre = Best RB eva.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 09:48 PM
That's over a 7 yard average. Not even Walter Payton or Jim Brown had those stats . . . lol http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

more attempts. Favre has averaged 3.3 yards per carry in his career.

Xiomera
11-02-2007, 09:50 PM
Brett Favre = Best RB eva.

Without a doubt. I think we can all agree on that.

That also would mean that LT is the greatest QB ever. 7 TD passes out of 11 career attempts!

Project those numbers over a career that includes 4000 pass attempts and he will have thrown 2,545 Touchdowns and zero INT's.

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:50 PM
more attempts. Favre has averaged 3.3 yards per carry in his career.

He was saying that if Favre and Marino started off equal, the 239 attempts would have had to be at 7 YPC, at least that is how I understood it.

Xiomera
11-02-2007, 09:52 PM
more attempts. Favre has averaged 3.3 yards per carry in his career.

Marino had a career rushing average of 0.3 yards per attempt.

http://www.danmarino.com/careerstats.htm

I don't see how this argument could possibly be turned in his favor.

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:52 PM
Without a doubt. I think we can all agree on that.

That also would mean that LT is the greatest QB ever. 7 TD passes out of 11 career attempts!

Project those numbers over a career that includes 4000 pass attempts and he will have thrown 2,545 Touchdowns and zero INT's.

Indubitably. Now imagine him with a career the length of Favres 8000 pass attempts, that would be 5100 TDs!!!

someone447
11-02-2007, 09:53 PM
Marino had a career rushing average of 0.3 yards per attempt.

http://www.danmarino.com/careerstats.htm

He may have been even less mobile than Bledsoe. But if you have seen Namath's famous TD run, it took him like 5 seconds to roll out and run to the endzone.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 09:54 PM
Marino had a career rushing average of 0.3 yards per attempt.

http://www.danmarino.com/careerstats.htm

I don't see how this argument could possibly be turned in his favor.

I wasn't turning it in his favor I was just saying Favre didn't average seven yards per carry.

Ewing
11-02-2007, 09:55 PM
He may have been even less mobile than Bledsoe. But if you have seen Namath's famous TD run, it took him like 5 seconds to roll out and run to the endzone.

In the pocket Marino might be the most mobile quarterback of all-time. Outside of it he was pretty terrible.

someone447
11-02-2007, 10:01 PM
In the pocket Marino might be the most mobile quarterback of all-time. Outside of it he was pretty terrible.

Ya, I was talking about outside the pocket. He had great pocket presence.

Watchman
11-03-2007, 09:57 AM
Quit basing your argument over a freaking half season. Who knows, Brady could slow down and end up short of Manning's record. Or he could break it. We don't know yet. "On pace for" means absolutely nothing, especially when both of them have such extensive career's already.

And with those recievers, and that defense, and that pass happy near the goalline coach, Peyton would be putting up similar numbers.

You can't have it both ways. If part of your arguement is that Manning would have the rings (that Brady has) if he had a better D for most of his career, then it is legitimate to say that Brady would have the stats (that Manning has) if he had Manning's offensive talent for most of his career. The first 8 games of this season go a long way to proving that point.

Sorry for going away from the Marino vs. Favre debate.

BUTerriers
11-03-2007, 01:36 PM
I guess Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are better than Dan Marino and Randall Cunningham. The rings arguement is the biggest load of crap in the NFL. Teams win championships, not one player.

Dilfer and Johnson won because of the teams around them. When Favre won in 96, his team was good, but not great. He did lead his team to the championship that years, something that Marino could never do, even though he did have some good teams around him. Not to mention that Favre was playing in the same conference as some of the greatest teams of all time in the 49ers and the Cowboys. Who in the AFC was keeping Marino out of the Super Bowl?

BUTerriers
11-03-2007, 01:42 PM
I apologize for getting this thread off track, I helped it along...I can't argue with people saying that Manning is the guy they would build their team around. If I had the first pick in an NFL fantasy draft (you know, the kind they do in Madden), I would have a hard time choosing Brady over Manning. I simply think that right now, Brady's post-season success gives him the edge over Manning's gaudy stats and one Super Bowl.

BUTerriers
11-04-2007, 09:44 PM
With the greatest game ever decided, has anyone's opinion been changed by the result?

Moses
11-04-2007, 09:57 PM
Without a doubt. I think we can all agree on that.

That also would mean that LT is the greatest QB ever. 7 TD passes out of 11 career attempts!

Project those numbers over a career that includes 4000 pass attempts and he will have thrown 2,545 Touchdowns and zero INT's.

Mike Vrabel is the best receiver to ever grace the field. He has scored on EVERY SINGLE RECEPTION in his career.

LonghornsLegend
11-04-2007, 11:09 PM
Peyton, his accuracy is scary good, and he has a cannon as well..he puts balls in places that only the wr can catch it, and consistently fits the ball in the window...Not that Brady doesnt, but I think Peyton has better physical attributes slightly, he just doesnt have the better playoff record or as many super bowls...what happens in the playoffs this year could determine alot, if brady beats them again in the post season I think you almsot have 2 give the nod to him

someone447
11-05-2007, 04:29 AM
Mike Vrabel is the best receiver to ever grace the field. He has scored on EVERY SINGLE RECEPTION in his career.

And I thought Cris Carter was the one who, "All he does is score touchdowns."

Geo
11-05-2007, 06:11 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=aonvonRifhyw&refer=home

Patriots-Colts Was Highest-Rated Afternoon NFL Game Since 1987
By Aaron Kuriloff and Larry DiTore

Nov. 5 (Bloomberg) -- The National Football League game between the undefeated New England Patriots and Indianapolis Colts earned the highest rating for a Sunday afternoon NFL broadcast since at least 1987, CBS said.

The network's broadcast of the Patriots' 24-20 win over the Colts yesterday was watched by an average of 22.5 percent of homes in the top 56 U.S. media markets, the network said in a news release. It was the highest-rated television program since ABC's broadcast of the Academy Awards in February, which earned a 26.4 overnight rating.

The game beat the previous record held by News Corp.'s Fox network, whose November 1996 telecast of the Dallas Cowboys and San Francisco 49ers received a 22.2 rating. CBS' records date back to 1987.

On the heels of the Patriots' win over the Colts, NBC said it's selected New England's Nov. 18 matchup against the Bills in Buffalo as its first "flexible scheduling'' game of the season. The game, originally scheduled to start at 1 p.m. New York time, will now start at 8:15 p.m.

"The Patriots' quest for a perfect season is clearly the biggest story in the NFL,'' NBC Sports Chairman Dick Ebersol said in a press release.

Under its contract with the NFL, NBC can choose a game from the full schedule for its Sunday night slot each of the last six weeks of the season.

Yesterday's game, which marked the first time that teams with records of 7-0 or better have played in the NFL's 88 seasons, received higher ratings than all four NFL divisional playoff games from 2006. It also was 52 percent higher than the Denver Broncos-Pittsburgh Steelers game CBS broadcast during Week 9 last year.

Large-market ratings represent about 70 percent of the 109.6 million U.S. households with televisions.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/11/05/pats.colts.ratings.ap/index.html

The game drew a 45.9/65 in Indianapolis and a 38.7/63 in Boston.

MaxV
11-05-2007, 07:13 PM
That's not surprising. It was a very hyped up game and I thought it lived up to it.

Too bad we couldn't pull it out in the end.

I love the way our D played, despite giving up some big plays.

duckseason
11-05-2007, 07:24 PM
I was rooting for the Colts, but still can't believe the PI call on Hobbs. I don't see how that could be just a mistake by the ref. He should be fired, imo. Nobody will convince me that he wasn't trying to alter the outcome of the game for his own personal benefit. There's nothing in sports I hate more than blatantly bad calls.

bored of education
11-05-2007, 07:41 PM
Damon Huard *vomit*

P-L
11-05-2007, 08:19 PM
I was rooting for the Colts, but still can't believe the PI call on Hobbs. I don't see how that could be just a mistake by the ref. He should be fired, imo. Nobody will convince me that he wasn't trying to alter the outcome of the game for his own personal benefit. There's nothing in sports I hate more than blatantly bad calls.
That was one of the top 5 worst calls I've ever seen in football. There was absolutely no contact until Reggie Wayne tackled Hobbs to prevent the INT.

Sniper
11-09-2007, 12:59 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/071109&sportCat=nfl

Just had to post this somewhere....doozy of a piece by Simmons

Anyway, Brady. He's got weapons now, and SHOCKINGLY has better stats than Peyton. I tend to value SB MVPs over regular season ones too, and the fact that Manning won the SB MVP last year over Rhodes and Addai is criminal.

BrownsTown
11-09-2007, 02:03 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/071109&sportCat=nfl

Just had to post this somewhere....doozy of a piece by Simmons

Anyway, Brady. He's got weapons now, and SHOCKINGLY has better stats than Peyton. I tend to value SB MVPs over regular season ones too, and the fact that Manning won the SB MVP last year over Rhodes and Addai is criminal.

That's hilarious. SB MVPs mean more than regular season...Deion Branch > Peyton Manning then, I guess.

P-L
11-09-2007, 02:10 PM
That's hilarious. SB MVPs mean more than regular season...Deion Branch > Peyton Manning then, I guess.

Yeah, I mean regular season MVP means so much. Steve McNair > Tom Brady. Right? :rolleyes:

Xiomera
11-09-2007, 02:14 PM
Yeah, I mean regular season MVP means so much. Steve McNair > Tom Brady. Right? :rolleyes:

The man makes a good point here . . . haha

BrownsTown
11-09-2007, 02:15 PM
Yeah, I mean regular season MVP means so much. Steve McNair > Tom Brady. Right? :rolleyes:

That year...yeah. You're saying the best player from one game is more valuable than the best player over 16?

Sniper
11-09-2007, 02:35 PM
That's hilarious. SB MVPs mean more than regular season...Deion Branch > Peyton Manning then, I guess.

You can have your fantasy football titles and worthless MVPs, I'll take the guy with the bling. Last I checked, you play to win Super Bowls.

Sniper
11-09-2007, 02:37 PM
That year...yeah. You're saying the best player from one game is more valuable than the best player over 16?

Yes, because the one means infinitely more than the 16 games. Would you rather go 16-0 and lose the SB or go maybe 10-6 and win the SB?

TacticaLion
11-09-2007, 03:02 PM
While it looked as if Hobbs turned his head in time to make the play and avoid a penalty, Pereira claimed he saw it as a “cut-off,” which would fall under one of the six categories of pass interference.

“When the contact first occurred, and that’s where you look at the cut-off, when the contact first occurred between the receiver and the defender, has the defender turned around, and is he making a legitimate play on the ball? No, he’s not until after this contact occurs,” explained Pereira, who was illustrating his point for viewers with a replay in front of him.

“He does eventually get his head around, but it’s pass interference, because this initial contact, with Ellis not playing the ball, with Reggie playing the ball, makes it pass interference on Ellis Hobbs and the correct call.”

Of the young crew that officiated the game, Pereira said, “The rookie part of it to me is way overblown. To me, they did a good job.”Interesting.

Geo
11-10-2007, 12:01 PM
Week 9: Patriots-Colts Game of the Week (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d803fc781)

I heart NFL Films.