PDA

View Full Version : A New #1 QB


Scott Wright
11-02-2007, 02:01 AM
There is a new #1 in my quarterback rankings and his name is Matt Ryan.

This may come as a surprise to some since I have always been a bit skeptical of Mr. Ryan but I outlined some of my reasons for bumping him ahead of Brohm and Woodson in my November 2nd blog entry, which you can check out by clicking below:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/blog/wrightstuff.html

Addict
11-02-2007, 02:09 AM
ooh trouble in quarterbackland. Reasonable explanation though...

Are you going to use them in that order in your drafts as well? Since you've been historically wronged by teams in your rankings (Young before Leinart, Russell before Quinn)...

Scott Wright
11-02-2007, 02:22 AM
ooh trouble in quarterbackland. Reasonable explanation though...

Are you going to use them in that order in your drafts as well? Since you've been historically wronged by teams in your rankings (Young before Leinart, Russell before Quinn)...

Yes, in the next mock draft the order the quarterbacks come off the board will likely be different.

Keep in mind though that when doing mock drafts I am not trying to project who I would take if I were running the team but rather who I think they will take. In short where a player is in my rankings does not necessarily corelate to where I think he will be drafted.

Turtlepower
11-02-2007, 02:23 AM
ooh trouble in quarterbackland. Reasonable explanation though...

Are you going to use them in that order in your drafts as well? Since you've been historically wronged by teams in your rankings (Young before Leinart, Russell before Quinn)...

Just because a team drafts a player earlier doesn't mean they will have a better career. Russell and Quinn are both a push because it looks like neither will be playing this year, while even though Young has played in more games and done better than Leinart, I still think Leinart can turn his career around.

toonsterwu
11-02-2007, 02:28 AM
really a side note first, not trying to intrude on the thread, but I'd be surprised if RUssell doesn't get time this year.

I've had it as Ryan/Woodson/Brohm for awhile. That said, I don't think any of the three will be premier signal callers. Of the three, I like Woodson's shot the best, but he needs a strong QB coach to work with him for awhile. That being said, I really don't envision anyone charging up and making a late run to break up this threesome and I think these will be the top 3 QB's off the board. I hope I'm wrong, as it'd make things much more interesting to discuss if someone did charge up, but not sold. If someone did, I'd look for a small school guy, someone like Joe Flacco or Josh Johnson, as I don't think guys like Ainge/Booty/Henne and co. have a shot at pushing through. In fact, wouldn't surprise me if someone like Joe Flacco ended up in the first round, and perhaps ended up as the best QB in the draft. Granted, always depends on getting in the right situation, so who knows.

edit: I like Ryan as the top QB because

1) Compared to Brohm, I think he sees the field better, throws to the different planes better, and in general, has a better feel for things. This isn't to so it's a lock, as I think Brohm has the better short-intermediate pro accuracy, and I think Brohm makes decisions better (which, for me, isn't the same thing as seeing the field better)

2) Compared to Woodson, I think Ryan is more ready to fit the balls into the pro windows.

In many ways, I think of Ryan as a poor man's Jay Cutler.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-02-2007, 02:48 AM
In many ways, I think of Ryan as a poor man's Jay Cutler.

Absolutely agree.

I really like the way Ryan plays quarterback. I've never been particularly sold on Brohm and Woodson is going to require a solid body of work before I'd be comfortable handing him an NFL offense.

I'm a bit surprised you view Ryan as the surest thing among the consensus top three quarterbacks, but I definitely think he's the top senior passer.

D-Unit
11-02-2007, 03:42 AM
Absolutely agree.

I really like the way Ryan plays quarterback. I've never been particularly sold on Brohm and Woodson is going to require a solid body of work before I'd be comfortable handing him an NFL offense.

I'm a bit surprised you view Ryan as the surest thing among the consensus top three quarterbacks, but I definitely think he's the top senior passer.
I think Cutler displayed a much stronger arm and power in his throws. Also think Cutler displayed better scrambling ability, game moxie and fuller figure. I think Ryan will grow more, but he's still got some filling out to do. I can see the comparison as far as field vision goes though.

BucSappy
11-02-2007, 05:39 AM
I'd like to know Scott why you think Woodson lacks intangibles. I have no problem when someone thinks Ryan has elite intangibles because I obviously can not disagree, but why does Woodson not get any love in that department?

It's easy to look good when you are playing against ACC defenses and the weak schedule Ryan has played. Woodson has to do it against SEC speed. This is a step above anything Ryan has ever faced (which includes VT). The SEC linebackers run 4.4 40s, its just a big difference. Speaking of which, Ryan just looked like an average QB against that VT defense. But when Woodson faced LSU, he looked like a gem.

toonsterwu
11-02-2007, 08:26 AM
I'd like to know Scott why you think Woodson lacks intangibles. I have no problem when someone thinks Ryan has elite intangibles because I obviously can not disagree, but why does Woodson not get any love in that department?

It's easy to look good when you are playing against ACC defenses and the weak schedule Ryan has played. Woodson has to do it against SEC speed. This is a step above anything Ryan has ever faced (which includes VT). The SEC linebackers run 4.4 40s, its just a big difference. Speaking of which, Ryan just looked like an average QB against that VT defense. But when Woodson faced LSU, he looked like a gem.

I'm a huge fan of Andre' Woodson and personally would rank him higher (although i've had Matt Ryan higher on my own big board for awhile). I also think that the SEC is the best conference in football. That said, let's not go overboard. You make it sound as if the SEC and ACC are dramatically different in terms of defensive physical ability, relative to the opponents that these two have faced.

Granted, this isn't the best measure, but it is an indicator. Let's take a look at their schedules. Both Andre' and Matt have played again a FCS (I-AA) squad (Eastern Kentucky and Massachusetts respectively). Of their remaining games against division 1 opponents (or whatever they are calling it now), as of today, Andre has faced an opposing total defense that averaged a ranking of 46.9, while Matt has faced an opposing total defense that averaged 50.7. Take away the top defenses that those two have faced (LSU and Georgia Tech) and the averages come out to 53.3 for Andre' and 51.5 for Georgia Tech. Boston College's remaining 4 opponents so far are ranked 17/55/9/28, while Kentucky's remaining 3 are 14/25/85. Barring a surprise, Boston College will likely face on more ACC team, either UVA or VA Tech, both defenses highly considered.

What does this really mean? Not much really. I'd be the first to admit it. The more significant thing are the matchups. I mean, let's pretend a team doesn't face a 3-4 defense all year. And then they run up against UVA's. If they struggle, does it mean that they are a bad offense? Perhaps ... but it could also simply mean that they didn't adjust or deal with the matchups. Furthermore, at the end of the day, these are all kids. Some teams are younger, some teams are older. Some teams are gelled together a bit better ... and some are still finding their way. Some teams know and understand their schemes better, allowing them to be more effective as a defensive unit.

What am I saying? Short of it is that, I don't buy the "Kentucky has faced harder defenses" angle. At the end of the year, if Ryan is on top, he'll have gone through a tough road. Matt Ryan is going to have gone through enough teams with defensive ability. I mean, Florida State and Miami, both of whom are struggling, are teams that are considered to have quality defensive speed and ability. Same goes for Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech. I mean, everyone wants to point to Virginia Tech's stinker against LSU, but it was early in the year and LSU is good. Same goes for Clemson. Wake Forest's defense, while not a unit that I would consider fast, has more than enough speed and is a sound unit.

and btw, you make it sound as if every SEC defense is stacked with linebackers that run 4.4 40's. I mean, Patrick Willis was the exception, not the rule.

Now, as noted above, the thing for me is that, I believe Ryan is better able to fit the balls in right now, and thus, more ready to step in. Woodson's going to need some work, IMO.

Sniper
11-02-2007, 08:47 AM
weak schedule Ryan has played. Woodson has to do it against SEC speed. This is a step above anything Ryan has ever faced (which includes VT). The SEC linebackers run 4.4 40s, its just a big difference. Speaking of which, Ryan just looked like an average QB against that VT defense. But when Woodson faced LSU, he looked like a gem.

Yet another person who buys into this "SEC SPEED" garbage. Stop, just stop.
Their linebackers do not run 4.4 40s. It's ******* stupid of you to say this. Patrick Willis ran a 4.38, but that's about it. Let's look at the generally regarded top 2 SEC teams....

LSU Linebackers

Ali Highsmith: 4.59
Luke Sanders: 4.87
Darry Beckwith: 4.59
Jacob Cutrera: 4.70
Average 40 time: 4.69

Florida Linebackers

Brandon Spikes: 4.69
Dustin Doe: 4.65
A.J Jones 4.63
Ryan Stamper 4.58
Average 40 time: 4.64

4.4s huh?

theogt
11-02-2007, 10:16 AM
Yet another person who buys into this "SEC SPEED" garbage. Stop, just stop.
Their linebackers do not run 4.4 40s. It's ******* stupid of you to say this. Patrick Willis ran a 4.38, but that's about it. Let's look at the generally regarded top 2 SEC teams....

LSU Linebackers

Ali Highsmith: 4.59
Luke Sanders: 4.87
Darry Beckwith: 4.59
Jacob Cutrera: 4.70
Average 40 time: 4.69

Florida Linebackers

Brandon Spikes: 4.69
Dustin Doe: 4.65
A.J Jones 4.63
Ryan Stamper 4.58
Average 40 time: 4.64

4.4s huh?None of those numbers are verifiable 40 times. If you think Highsmith is going to run a 4.59 at the Combine, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Sniper
11-02-2007, 10:25 AM
None of those numbers are verifiable 40 times. If you think Highsmith is going to run a 4.59 at the Combine, I've got a bridge to sell you.

I bet you he doesn't run in the 4.4s

YAYareaRB
11-02-2007, 10:46 AM
Wow this surprising. I still think Woodson is #1..

YAYareaRB
11-02-2007, 10:48 AM
Yet another person who buys into this "SEC SPEED" garbage. Stop, just stop.
Their linebackers do not run 4.4 40s. It's ******* stupid of you to say this. Patrick Willis ran a 4.38, but that's about it. Let's look at the generally regarded top 2 SEC teams....

LSU Linebackers

Ali Highsmith: 4.59
Luke Sanders: 4.87
Darry Beckwith: 4.59
Jacob Cutrera: 4.70
Average 40 time: 4.69

Florida Linebackers

Brandon Spikes: 4.69
Dustin Doe: 4.65
A.J Jones 4.63
Ryan Stamper 4.58
Average 40 time: 4.64

4.4s huh?

Game speed is a whole 'nother issue

Sniper
11-02-2007, 10:53 AM
Game speed is a whole 'nother issue

You're right, it is. But another issue that comes into place is the fact that since quite a few SEC teams run a spread O or some variation of it, LBs don't play as many snaps as DBs do. For example, if you're going to run a nickel package with 5 DBs, your DBs should be faster than your LBs, hence the whole "SEC Speed" myth.

YAYareaRB
11-02-2007, 11:22 AM
But it still doesn't change the fact that SEC is known for fielding game fast linebackers. The only spread offenses I know of are South Carolina, LSU(to an extent), and Kentucky. Florida spread also utilizes the option a lot, which calls for Linebackers to be in the game.

princefielder28
11-02-2007, 11:37 AM
I don't mind Scott's new rankings at the top, but the thing I question the most is with John David Booty at #6. Even before the season started I would have had Sam Keller ahead of him and probably Erik Ainge, but following his lackluster season and lack of production how does he continue to sit that high?? I would even argue that Dennis Dixon should be ahead of him.

YAYareaRB
11-02-2007, 11:41 AM
I don't mind Scott's new rankings at the top, but the thing I question the most is with John David Booty at #6. Even before the season started I would have had Sam Keller ahead of him and probably Erik Ainge, but following his lackluster season and lack of production how does he continue to sit that high?? I would even argue that Dennis Dixon should be ahead of him.

Both Sam Keller and Dennis Dixon should be rated higher than JDB. I haven't really watched Erik Ainge so I can't speak much about him. People might still be iffy about Dixon because this is his first good year at Oregon and some consider him to be a run first QB still. Sam Keller has been great for Nebraska

Turtlepower
11-02-2007, 11:44 AM
Both Sam Keller and Dennis Dixon should be rated higher than JDB. I haven't really watched Erik Ainge so I can't speak much about him. People might still be iffy about Dixon because this is his first good year at Oregon and some consider him to be a run first QB still. Sam Keller has been great for Nebraska

Except that he once again will not be playing a full season. He ends is college career only playing something like 15 games. That is really not that great.

Cashmoney
11-02-2007, 11:56 AM
Except that he once again will not be playing a full season. He ends is college career only playing something like 15 games. That is really not that great.

yeah, id take ainge or dixon over booty or keller anyday.

Scott Wright
11-02-2007, 02:41 PM
I'd like to know Scott why you think Woodson lacks intangibles. I have no problem when someone thinks Ryan has elite intangibles because I obviously can not disagree, but why does Woodson not get any love in that department?

It's easy to look good when you are playing against ACC defenses and the weak schedule Ryan has played. Woodson has to do it against SEC speed. This is a step above anything Ryan has ever faced (which includes VT). The SEC linebackers run 4.4 40s, its just a big difference. Speaking of which, Ryan just looked like an average QB against that VT defense. But when Woodson faced LSU, he looked like a gem.

Don't get me wrong I think Woodson's intangibles are fine (aside from some seriously stupid decisions in recent weeks), it's just that Ryan's are on a different level.

DWilliams2IndyColts
11-02-2007, 04:53 PM
Except that he once again will not be playing a full season. He ends is college career only playing something like 15 games. That is really not that great.Kinda like Trent Edwards.

Turtlepower
11-02-2007, 05:03 PM
Kinda like Trent Edwards.

Except Trent Edwards is smart and Sam Keller played half his career in a pass-happy offense.

SchizophrenicBatman
11-02-2007, 05:53 PM
Scott has been on the Sam Keller bandwagon for quite some time. If someone is underrating him, it's not Mr. Wright. Booty is a bit overrated, though, I agree

Hard to disagree with the logic to put Ryan #1. I like Woodson more, but if my team were to draft someone this year, I'd prefer it to be Ryan simply because I don't trust them to develop a QB.

Babylon
11-02-2007, 06:08 PM
The problem i have with Woodson is he has a bit of a flaw in his throwing motion, almost a Kerry Collins delivery. It can probably be corrected but it would be viewed in my book as a problem. I do like him better than Campbell by the way.

Ryan to me has the most potential to be a Tom Brady going forward, he needs to get some bulk and get a few more mph on his fastball but i think it's something that can be achieved.

Brian Brohm to me is the safest pick of the 3, he throws a nice ball, moves around a little and has played in passing offenses all the way back to highschool and probably before that considering he comes from a QB family, i have used the Jim Kelley comparison and i dont think that is far off at all.

Race for the Heisman
11-02-2007, 07:52 PM
I'd like to know Scott why you think Woodson lacks intangibles. I have no problem when someone thinks Ryan has elite intangibles because I obviously can not disagree, but why does Woodson not get any love in that department?

It's easy to look good when you are playing against ACC defenses and the weak schedule Ryan has played. Woodson has to do it against SEC speed. This is a step above anything Ryan has ever faced (which includes VT). The SEC linebackers run 4.4 40s, its just a big difference. Speaking of which, Ryan just looked like an average QB against that VT defense. But when Woodson faced LSU, he looked like a gem.

The average recorded speed of an SEC linebacker at the 2007 NFL Combine was 4.72. The fastest time recorded was held by Patrick Willis at a 4.51. Regardless of whatever other times he recorded, that number is the one that gives parity.

To be on topic, how ironic would it be if Ryan falls from grace by virtue of poor play, Woodson continues to play spottily, and Brohm recovered the top spot with a good Senior Bowl and strong finish to the season. I would love to see that purely as a bystander since I don't think any of them really are that much better than the others.

ATLDirtyBirds
11-03-2007, 06:55 AM
I'm not a big Ryan guy. His makes bad decisions and tries to force passes. Not exactly what you look for in a QB.

Travis 24
11-03-2007, 08:39 AM
Brian Brohm is clearly the best QB of the 3...the most important thing is accuracy, and the other 2 aren't even remotely close to him.

I don't see what intangibles Ryan even has...the guy forces more passes than anyone I've seen in a while..Brohm is the only QB I would even think about playing in the NFL in their rookie year.

Xiomera
11-03-2007, 06:35 PM
Scott, how close is Henne to the top 3 now?

That was a gutsy and impressive performance against MSU today . . .

bearsfan_51
11-03-2007, 07:04 PM
Scott, how close is Henne to the top 3 now?

That was a gutsy and impressive performance against MSU today . . .
He made some good throws at the end, but he struggled early, and it was Michigan State.

I'm a bigger fan of Henne than most. How Ainge suddenly jumped in front of him I'm not sure as they've had similar senior seasons and Henne's overall resume is more impressive.

That said, I agree with Toonster, if someone is going to break the top 3 it's not one of the better known players. There are too many strikes against them already.

Xiomera
11-03-2007, 07:37 PM
He made some good throws at the end, but he struggled early, and it was Michigan State.

I'm a bigger fan of Henne than most. How Ainge suddenly jumped in front of him I'm not sure as they've had similar senior seasons and Henne's overall resume is more impressive.

That said, I agree with Toonster, if someone is going to break the top 3 it's not one of the better known players. There are too many strikes against them already.

Henne is playing hurt. He has a bad knee and a bad throwing shoulder.

He got it done when it counted most. In the 4th quarter when they were down by 10.


And no, I am not a homer, just for the record. I recognize that Henne is behind the top 3, I just want to know if people think he is any closer after this week.

myinnerself
11-03-2007, 10:43 PM
I can understand your rather low ranking of Josh Johnson from USD because of the level of competition he plays at, and because you've probably never seen the kid or seen him play, but seriously, he should be a LOT higher. I'm telling you all right now, Dennis Dixon is a dirt poor man's Josh Johnson. There are scouts at every single USD practice from the NFL, 5 have come in the same day. I'm telling you right now this kid will be something at the next level, extremely smart, extremely talented kid, who got overlooked in high school because Marshawn Lynch was his running back and he just had to hand it to him all day and didn't get a chance to show his stuff. He's stayed at USD only because he feels a responsibility to stay at the school that gave him a chance to play when big school's all overlooked him. Tons of D1A programs have come calling since his sophomore year but he denied everyone. Trust me, listen to me, this will be prophetic, the kid can flat out play, period, and doesn't only have NFL level talent, but an NFL mind, he could be the offensive coordinator for his team. Just trust me, and Scott, do yourself a favor and watch game film of this kid, unbelievable athlete with a great arm. He's only thrown 1 interception this year by the way, and it was on a deflected ball. The kid is gonna be something. You all watch.

toonsterwu
11-03-2007, 11:03 PM
I like Josh Johnson a lot. Reminds me a bit of Alex Smith as a prospect in some respects.

Personally, after thinking about it further, I think I would Ryan/Woodson/Brohm/Flacco/Johnson as my top 5 QB's. I like Flacco a bit better for the pros than Johnson as a prospect. Going through a bunch of comps (should put this in the other thread, but too lazy) - Ryan reminds me of a poor man's Cutler, Woodson reminds me of Campbell (oft-used), Brohm reminds me a bit of Schaub, Flacco reminds me either of Palmer or Rothlisberger.

d34ng3l021
11-03-2007, 11:05 PM
So...Pretty bad game for Ryan today.

SchizophrenicBatman
11-03-2007, 11:08 PM
It was the same story as the VT game, just with a different outcome

In fact, same story of his entire career. I still understand Scott's logic, though

toonsterwu
11-04-2007, 01:01 AM
Even with the bad game, I think Ryan is still the most ready to make an impact. Of the top three, I would go

Ryan - Most ready
Woodson - Highest potential, most work needed
Brohm - Highest floor

At the end of the day, none of these three QB's are top talents. I would roughly say top 10 for Ryan, top 15 for Woodson (even though I still personally prefer him over Ryan), and mid-late first for Brohm if I was doing a big board. Because of the weakness at the top of the draft, plus the position value of QB's, they could go higher. Even when I was coming up with comps, it was pretty telling in some respects, as the guys I somewhat liken the top 3 to, using recent prospects, failed to go really high (funny to me to see that the guys I compare Flacco and Johnson to both went quite high), and yet, the chances stand that one of these top 3 may go really high.

D-Unit
11-04-2007, 01:51 AM
Colt Brennan = Tony Romo

...Just sayin' :D

Paranoidmoonduck
11-04-2007, 02:13 AM
I like Josh Johnson a lot. Reminds me a bit of Alex Smith as a prospect in some respects.

Personally, after thinking about it further, I think I would Ryan/Woodson/Brohm/Flacco/Johnson as my top 5 QB's. I like Flacco a bit better for the pros than Johnson as a prospect. Going through a bunch of comps (should put this in the other thread, but too lazy) - Ryan reminds me of a poor man's Cutler, Woodson reminds me of Campbell (oft-used), Brohm reminds me a bit of Schaub, Flacco reminds me either of Palmer or Rothlisberger.

Speaking as someone who hasn't seen Joe Flacco take a single snap, what makes him so attractive? I know he's a big kid and I've heard positive things about his release and arm, but this is the first time I've heard someone regard him this highly.

toonsterwu
11-04-2007, 05:45 AM
Admittedly, I haven't seen a ton of Joe Flacco this year either. I've caught some, though. I like the fact that he seems fairly poised in the pocket and that he knows what he's doing. I think he makes decisions fairly quick and for the most part, makes good decisions. I think he has a very quick release and snaps the ball well.

It's the upside that pushes him up for me. This is a QB class that really lacks much upside. There are concerns I have about Flacco as well. I wish he held the ball a little higher from what I've seen. While he gets the ball out quick, there seems to be a tiny hitch in his motion. It doesn't delay the motion dramatically, but there seems to be a little hitch that I would be concerned with. This isn't anywhere near the concerns I have on Andre' Woodson's mechanics. Then there's the whole fact that his level of competition has to make you wary. I think his decision making is solid for the most part, but there are times when he's trying to fit balls in ... and he gets away with it because it's the FCS (I-AA). There are some windows he creates with his arm, which makes him tantalizing, but some of these windows won't exist at the I-A level, let alone the NFL.

I don't think Flacco is a kid that's going to come in there and be ready next year. You need to work with him a bit, let him adjust to the speed. But I do think the potential is there.

That said, there's still a lot of time left. This is just my short take on him ... I'm sure there are people following on this board this year that could give a much more detailed perception.

keylime_5
11-04-2007, 08:50 AM
I still like Andre Woodson the best in this class, but everytime I think of Kentucky and QBs I cringe.

oldLibid21
11-04-2007, 10:44 AM
ooh trouble in quarterbackland. Reasonable explanation though...

Are you going to use them in that order in your drafts as well? Since you've been historically wronged by teams in your rankings (Young before Leinart, Russell before Quinn)...

Most likely not, it's pretty clear that the Falcons will draft Brohm no matter who else is on the board. (Unless, ofcourse, it's Dorsey and MAYBE McFadden, OR Long.)

bearsfan_51
11-04-2007, 10:57 AM
Most likely not, it's pretty clear that the Falcons will draft Brohm no matter who else is on the board. (Unless, ofcourse, it's Dorsey and MAYBE McFadden, OR Long.)

I don't think that's clear at all. Ex-college coaches pass on their players all the time, it's not like it's a rarity. I have a hard time believing that any team will give Brohm top 5 money.

Race for the Heisman
11-04-2007, 10:59 AM
After last night's game, Ryan clearly has all the desirable attributes, minus consistency. His pocket presence is always great but his decision-making, accuracy, and vision are there one series, absent the next. He also gets happy feet under pressure and won't just set himself and make a throw. The physical upside doesn't really matter since there isn't that much to seperate the top three but if Ryan could play consistently well, I'd have zero qualms about drafting him, but with the way he plays, good one series and mediocre the next, he's really not that much better than anyone else. He's still probably worth the pick because his problems are almost entirely mental, but I'm not entirely convinced that as a Bears fan I'd rather skip quarterback this year and go offensive line in multiple rounds, which I think says a bit about this year's class.

Travis 24
11-04-2007, 01:43 PM
I can understand your rather low ranking of Josh Johnson from USD because of the level of competition he plays at, and because you've probably never seen the kid or seen him play, but seriously, he should be a LOT higher. I'm telling you all right now, Dennis Dixon is a dirt poor man's Josh Johnson. There are scouts at every single USD practice from the NFL, 5 have come in the same day. I'm telling you right now this kid will be something at the next level, extremely smart, extremely talented kid, who got overlooked in high school because Marshawn Lynch was his running back and he just had to hand it to him all day and didn't get a chance to show his stuff. He's stayed at USD only because he feels a responsibility to stay at the school that gave him a chance to play when big school's all overlooked him. Tons of D1A programs have come calling since his sophomore year but he denied everyone. Trust me, listen to me, this will be prophetic, the kid can flat out play, period, and doesn't only have NFL level talent, but an NFL mind, he could be the offensive coordinator for his team. Just trust me, and Scott, do yourself a favor and watch game film of this kid, unbelievable athlete with a great arm. He's only thrown 1 interception this year by the way, and it was on a deflected ball. The kid is gonna be something. You all watch.

Well, I've had Johnson as my 5th rated QB since about September..

bearsfan_51
11-04-2007, 01:48 PM
I can understand your rather low ranking of Josh Johnson from USD because of the level of competition he plays at, and because you've probably never seen the kid or seen him play, but seriously, he should be a LOT higher. I'm telling you all right now, Dennis Dixon is a dirt poor man's Josh Johnson. There are scouts at every single USD practice from the NFL, 5 have come in the same day. I'm telling you right now this kid will be something at the next level, extremely smart, extremely talented kid, who got overlooked in high school because Marshawn Lynch was his running back and he just had to hand it to him all day and didn't get a chance to show his stuff. He's stayed at USD only because he feels a responsibility to stay at the school that gave him a chance to play when big school's all overlooked him. Tons of D1A programs have come calling since his sophomore year but he denied everyone. Trust me, listen to me, this will be prophetic, the kid can flat out play, period, and doesn't only have NFL level talent, but an NFL mind, he could be the offensive coordinator for his team. Just trust me, and Scott, do yourself a favor and watch game film of this kid, unbelievable athlete with a great arm. He's only thrown 1 interception this year by the way, and it was on a deflected ball. The kid is gonna be something. You all watch.
Do you realize how condescending it is to assume that someone who makes his living on the draft hasn't seen a player? Lots of people know who Johnson is, this isn't a relevation to anyone.

Shiver
11-04-2007, 05:21 PM
I don't think that's clear at all. Ex-college coaches pass on their players all the time, it's not like it's a rarity. I have a hard time believing that any team will give Brohm top 5 money.


Last year a lot of people assumed that Atlanta was going to take Amobi Okoye and Michael Bush; however, they took Anderson and Robinson instead. The team needs a QB, to be sure, but Atlanta needs a LT and RB as well.

P-L
11-04-2007, 05:30 PM
Bobby Petrino isn't going to take Brian Brohm just because the two are "tight." If he does select him it's going to be because after all evaluations, he feels Brohm is the best player at a position of need. If Darren McFadden is off the board and there are no LT of value, and Petrino feels that Woodson or Brohm are better, then that's who Atlanta will select.

Shiver
11-04-2007, 05:42 PM
Petrino doesn't really have the say anyway. Even if he wants Brohm Rich McKay and Arthur Blank have the final say.

DWilliams2IndyColts
11-04-2007, 05:57 PM
Ryan throws on the run alot.

BucSappy
11-07-2007, 09:43 AM
Okay in response to Scott, don't know what he means in that Woodson made stupid decisions in his last 2 weeks.

Against, Florida, he played a great game considering how much he got pressured and the limited opportunities he got because his defense couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.

Against MSU, he made a few bad plays at the end of the game, but he had to make them. On his last INT, is he supposed to throw the ball away when his team is down by two scores with less a minute left in the game? It doesn't even count really, he had to try to make a play.

But lets just forget about Matt Ryan's pathetic performance for the first 57 minutes of that football game. The last 3 only count so lets go with that. :|

Crow
11-07-2007, 03:38 PM
So now it's Dennis Dixon (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/../scoutingreports/qb/dennisdixon.html). I can dig it. The guy can flat out play. But what's his pro potential? How far from being an NFL quality QB is he? Potential 1st round pick, or somewhere in the 2-3 range?

lod01
11-07-2007, 03:55 PM
So now it's Dennis Dixon (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/../scoutingreports/qb/dennisdixon.html). I can dig it. The guy can flat out play. But what's his pro potential? How far from being an NFL quality QB is he? Potential 1st round pick, or somewhere in the 2-3 range?

Just about zero. Another guy putting up some numbers in college that will be destroyed in the NFL. Backup at best. He will be picked way too early by a clueless team, thus setting them back further vs your well managed teams like NE, GB and Indy.

BucSappy
11-07-2007, 03:57 PM
So now it's Dennis Dixon (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/../scoutingreports/qb/dennisdixon.html). I can dig it. The guy can flat out play. But what's his pro potential? How far from being an NFL quality QB is he? Potential 1st round pick, or somewhere in the 2-3 range?

I truly believe we are going to find out just how good Vince Young was based on where Dennis Dixon is drafted. Vince Young got drafted because he was the star of college football for a year and he beat USC.

When I look at the way Dixon throws the ball, his arm strength, body type, I feel like I'm watching Vince Young in an Oregon uniform.

But when questioning where Dennis Dixon will get drafted it is too early to tell. If he has a great Senior Bowl he could go late round 1, but that's his ceiling. He has great athleticism, so I'd also say mid round 3 this the lowest he will go considering the season he is having.

lod01
11-07-2007, 04:00 PM
That being said, Vince Young is showing that he is nothing as an NFL caliber QB. He's being allowed to manage a game becasue he can't do more than that. If TENN gets behind by a couple of TD's. it's over.

bearsfan_51
11-08-2007, 08:29 PM
That being said, Vince Young is showing that he is nothing as an NFL caliber QB. He's being allowed to manage a game becasue he can't do more than that. If TENN gets behind by a couple of TD's. it's over.

I can't believe I'm actually going to stick up for Vince Young but if you're going to say blatant falacies....

Young rallies Titans to victory over Giants

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (Nov. 26, 2006) -- Adam "Pacman" Jones jumped up and down, waving his arms, encouraging the fans who stuck around to stand and cheer their Tennessee Titans.

He and Vince Young made it worth their while, too, delivering the biggest fourth-quarter comeback in franchise history with a stunning rally.

The Titans cornerback intercepted two passes and had a 23-yard punt return that revived his teammates in the fourth quarter. Then rookie quarterback Young finished off an improbable charge from a 21-point deficit to a 24-21 win over the New York Giants.

"Wow," Titans coach Jeff Fisher said when it finally ended.

Young ran for a touchdown and threw for two more in the final 9:35 and finished with a career-high 249 yards passing. Rob Bironas kicked a 49-yard field goal with 6 seconds left to win it.

The final minutes felt like a flashback to the national championship game last January when Young led his Texas Longhorns past Southern California.

"The legend of Vince Young began a long time ago," said Titans receiver Brandon Jones, who caught the TD pass that tied the game.

Young agreed.

"It's a sneak peek of what's to happen not just me, but this team in general," Young said of a club that has won four of its last six in matching last year's victory total with five games left.

The Giants (6-5) lost their third straight in a titanic collapse, and coach Tom Coughlin called it a "terrible shock". They fell a game behind the Dallas Cowboys (7-4) in the NFC East going into next week's game in the Meadowlands.

"I don't have the words to talk about it right now, and I probably won't when I see it. We're going to be sick about this one forever," Coughlin said.

The comeback topped the Titans' previous best fourth-quarter rally from 15 points on Nov. 1, 1987, against Cincinnati. It was the biggest in the NFL since Indianapolis came back from 21 down in the fourth period at Tampa Bay on Oct. 6, 2003, and won 38-25.

New York led 21-0 with in the second quarter. But the Giants didn't score again, and Jones got the Titans (4-7) into the game when he intercepted Eli Manning's pass with 12:55 left.

Young tossed a 4-yard TD pass to Bo Scaife nine plays later. Earlier in the drive, Giants cornerback Frank Walker drew a personal foul for a high hit on Young as the quarterback ran out of bounds short of a first down on fourth-and-9 in Giants territory.

"Was it a forearm to the head, or was it helmet to helmet?" Coughlin asked. "What was it? That was stupid. It was a bad play."

The Titans forced the Giants to punt, and Jones almost dared New York to kick toward him. Jeff Feagles did, and Jones returned it 23 yards.

Jones, who has not talked to reporters since Oct. 4, did not speak after the game. His teammates couldn't stop talking about him.

"To me, this guy is like an arcade game," Young said. "You see him on the punt return. When a guy is getting tackled, he spins out and makes a play ... You can't coach that."

Young himself scored on a 1-yard run, throwing the ball into the stands.

Tennessee forced New York to punt once more, this time out of bounds and away from Jones.

Young then drove the Titans 76 yards in eight plays. The big play came on fourth-and-10, when Giants rookie Mathias Kiwanuka had Young wrapped up for a sack, but let him go, only to see him scramble upfield 19 yards for a first down.

"Thank God for letting me loose," Young said.

Manning, whose shaky play in the past two losses had people questioning his confidence, had his chance to stop Tennessee's comeback. But Jones jumped up and grabbed a pass intended for David Tyree at midfield.

"A bad decision on my part," Manning said of throwing the ball instead of playing it safe.

With 23 seconds left, Young looked like a seasoned veteran as he completed two short passes and set up Bironas for the winning field goal. Bironas already had missed a 48-yarder wide right, and this time he had to kick off a bad snap.

But the ball went through.

The Giants had 3 seconds to try and lateral a short kickoff around the field before James Butler was tackled.

Young also ran 10 times for a team-high 69 yards, and the Titans outgained New York 343-287 even though the Giants held the ball for more than 33 minutes.

asmitty45
11-08-2007, 08:38 PM
I'm not sure Dixon is in VY's class, i'll give it to him if he can win the Nat Championship.

Although i think he will have one thing Vince didn't have in his college career, a Heisman trophy

superfly69
11-08-2007, 10:36 PM
I think Matt Ryan is the number 1 QB right now. But I still think that if Atlanta is picking in the top 5, Brian Brohm will be the guy.

BucSappy
11-08-2007, 10:48 PM
I think Matt Ryan is the number 1 QB right now. But I still think that if Atlanta is picking in the top 5, Brian Brohm will be the guy.

"60% of the time it works, every time."

That makes more sense than what you just said. I really hate how people think Brohm to Atlanta. I will dedicate a thread to all the Brohm to Atlanta morons when the Draft is all said and done when Atlanta takes Ryan or Woodson over Brohm.

San Diego Chicken
11-08-2007, 10:57 PM
I think Matt Ryan is the number 1 QB right now. But I still think that if Atlanta is picking in the top 5, Brian Brohm will be the guy.

I don't know how true this is, but I have heard that Brohm and Petrino had a bit of a falling out when Petrino decided to go to the Falcons.

As for Brohm himself I believe he showed tonight that he translates very well into the NFL. He is asked to make NFL style throws down the seams, is accurate with them and makes the pass with great velocity. His intermediate arm strength is underrated.

BucSappy
11-08-2007, 11:01 PM
I don't know how true this is, but I have heard that Brohm and Petrino had a bit of a falling out when Petrino decided to go to the Falcons.

As for Brohm himself I believe he showed tonight that he translates very well into the NFL. He is asked to make NFL style throws down the seams, is accurate with them and makes the pass with great velocity. His intermediate arm strength is underrated.

I was impressed with his zip on the ball tonight too, but it was awful vs. Rutgers. Idk how arm strength can be inconsitent, but his seems to be.

soybean
11-24-2007, 05:18 PM
Erik Ainge is CLEARLY the best qb in the class. I could care less about the win vs. kentucky today, if you watch him play he looks IDENTICAL to how peyton manning plays. they hold the ball the same, they both look gittery in the pocket and both can make the perfect throws.

i didn't think there was anything great about ainge before the season started but I think he's best and the safest bet moreso than the big 3.

ATLDirtyBirds
11-24-2007, 05:35 PM
Erik Ainge is CLEARLY the best qb in the class. I could care less about the win vs. kentucky today, if you watch him play he looks IDENTICAL to how peyton manning plays. they hold the ball the same, they both look gittery in the pocket and both can make the perfect throws.

i didn't think there was anything great about ainge before the season started but I think he's best and the safest bet moreso than the big 3.


I'm sorry, but that's funny.

SeanTaylorRIP
11-24-2007, 05:36 PM
Lol I know he did well against an awful Kentucky D, but a bit emotional after a big win, lol?

BuckNaked
11-24-2007, 09:55 PM
That's an awfully funny statement. The difference between Peyton Manning and Eric Ainge is colossal.

toonsterwu
11-25-2007, 01:44 AM
I still think Ryan is the top QB on the board, followed by Woodson or Brohm in some order. After that, it's a bit wide open, with Erik Ainge as a potential option, along with say, Josh Johnson. I think Joe Flacco is in that 2nd tier mix as well, with Colt Brennan perhaps in the mix, along with JD Booty. That's a bit big of a grouping, as I'm not sure how to shake it loose, but I figure that Ainge/Johnson/Flacco/Brennan/Booty mix goes in the 2nd-4th round range, followed perhaps by guys like Dixon (injury will hurt, I think), Henne, O'Connell, Santos and a couple others perhaps from the late 4th-6th mix.

but definitely some time left on the clock.

soybean
11-25-2007, 01:46 AM
style of play is identical. I'm not saying he's peyton v.2. like when matt ryan's style reminds people of tom brady.

the play i was most impressed with wasn't even a touchdown, it was the INT near the goal line.

I just like his stance, his footwork and delivery.

MidwayMonster31
11-25-2007, 11:50 AM
Woodson's pocket awareness kinda bothered me, but he couldn't outrun all those Vol defensive linemen that were in his face throughout the game. I thought he made better adjustments as the game went on. He read blitzes better and found the backs to throw to. The long release is the only thing that bothers me about Woodson.
I liked Ryan the beginning of the year. The thing that bugs me the most about him is that he can't set his feet while throwing. Especially in the game against Clemson, the touchdown pass he threw, which was a great throw, was the only time he set his feet the whole game.
Brohm will be the first QB taken if Petrino gets his way in Atlanta.

619
11-25-2007, 12:12 PM
Woodson's pocket awareness kinda bothered me, but he couldn't outrun all those Vol defensive linemen that were in his face throughout the game. I thought he made better adjustments as the game went on. He read blitzes better and found the backs to throw to. The long release is the only thing that bothers me about Woodson.
I liked Ryan the beginning of the year. The thing that bugs me the most about him is that he can't set his feet while throwing. Especially in the game against Clemson, the touchdown pass he threw, which was a great throw, was the only time he set his feet the whole game.
Brohm will be the first QB taken if Petrino gets his way in Atlanta.

matt ryan is tony romo-esque..seriously there arent too many times u see romo set his feet when throwing the ball either