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kalbears13
01-12-2012, 11:18 PM
With a short offseason and a switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3, it could have been worse. I hope the Browns can find a starting RDE this offseason.

Iamcanadian
01-14-2012, 09:27 AM
With a short offseason and a switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3, it could have been worse. I hope the Browns can find a starting RDE this offseason.

Going to be tough to draft for defense with all our problems on offense. FA is the only possibility.

keylime_5
01-14-2012, 09:33 AM
Ryan was a good coach, but when he left it's not like we didn't replace him with another great coach. Dick Jauron has a proven track record as a defensive assistant in this league, he's nothing to sneeze at.

If we find a RDE (I think 2013, not 2012 might be the year we get one of those) then I think our defensive line has the potential for greatness. Sheard and Rubin were great this year, Taylor is going to be very good as well. If we had a young Pierre-Paul/Jared Allen/Dwight Freeney/Jason Babin/etc. type on the right side we would be scary in the front four for the future.

Iamcanadian
01-14-2012, 09:44 AM
Ryan was a good coach, but when he left it's not like we didn't replace him with another great coach. Dick Jauron has a proven track record as a defensive assistant in this league, he's nothing to sneeze at.

If we find a RDE (I think 2013, not 2012 might be the year we get one of those) then I think our defensive line has the potential for greatness. Sheard and Rubin were great this year, Taylor is going to be very good as well. If we had a young Pierre-Paul/Jared Allen/Dwight Freeney/Jason Babin/etc. type on the right side we would be scary in the front four for the future.

Wouldn't every team wish for one of those, hope we find somebody close by 2013.
I love Dick Jauron, solid defensive coach.
Love your posts by the way, really enjoy reading them.

Brown Leader
01-16-2012, 10:41 PM
Still no OC. Not surprising. It's messy. Shurmur basically failed as a strategist and play-caller in his first year but it's still basically his offense. How are we going to get a good OC to come in here and run someone else's offense, maby not even calling plays? This is really in Shurmurs hands. He needs to take a backseat and allow a top notch OC to come in and take over the offense. Hue Jackson comes to mind.

Iamcanadian
01-16-2012, 11:05 PM
Probably just waiting till the playoff smoke clears to announce an OC.

Brown Leader
01-19-2012, 12:01 PM
Probably just waiting till the playoff smoke clears to announce an OC.

That makes little sense if we're not looking to hire anyone off those squads.

Iamcanadian
01-23-2012, 03:19 PM
That makes little sense if we're not looking to hire anyone off those squads.

Well, I'm not privy to those discussions so I really haven't a clue to what their intentions are.

j05son
02-01-2012, 12:30 AM
The past week has been pleasant for Browns fans. We get Chilly as an OC and Grossi gets removed as a Browns writer for a stupid tweet about Lerner.

Both are pluses and all in all it's been a good week.

fear the elf
02-27-2012, 02:20 PM
The Browns and D'Qwell come to terms on a new contract (http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/02/cleveland_browns_agree_to_mult.html).

A source told The Plain Dealer the contract was for five years and $42.5 million. It includes $19 million in guarantees and bonuses.

It seems a bit pricey, but I really like DQ and he played great last year. This system really seems to be a better fit to his skill set.

Brown Leader
03-03-2012, 09:52 AM
WTF is going on here. Cleveland Browns RB Peyton Hillis says CIA story false, would take discount to stay with team (http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/03/exclusive_browns_rb_peyton_hil.html)
No matter what the truth is, it makes the Browns look bad-we must really have some idiots in our FO. Watch Hillis go to Pittsburgh. Ughh, how terrible would that be?

Iamcanadian
03-03-2012, 12:08 PM
The past week has been pleasant for Browns fans. We get Chilly as an OC and Grossi gets removed as a Browns writer for a stupid tweet about Lerner.

Both are pluses and all in all it's been a good week.

What did he tweet about Lerner since I have no access to Cleveland Press?
If he criticized Lerner then it is a sad removal because Lerner needs to be put under the gun for the rotten job he has done since owning this team.

BuckeyeDan17
03-03-2012, 05:27 PM
Dude I wish when the offseason started that we would have just kicked him to the curb. Hillis, I mean. I think our FO is a bunch of nutless pushovers.

Clarkpba
03-08-2012, 03:24 PM
Just an outside observation about the browns offseason and draft considerations so y'all can take them for what they worth.

First off all the talk of the Browns trading up to take RGIII seem very unlikely to me. Holmgren has never been a guy to take an early QB in the draft and he likes to get draft picks not give them up. I think the Rams are ask for to much and Holmgren isn't going to give it up. With that being said I feel thats the best move for the franchise is to trade some of the picks and get an impact player the Browns desperatly need I just dont see the front office doing it. What I can see them actually doing is trying to trade down but I dont think there will be anyone wanting to trade up to number 4 so they end up taking BPA.

I can see the Browns signing a QB in free agency like Kyle Orton. He'll fits the kind of style Holmgren wants to see the team run. Allthough he isn't much of an upgrade over Mccoy he is more accurate and has a stronger arm.

fear the elf
03-14-2012, 07:53 AM
Does anybody know the story on Dimitri Patterson and Mike Adams? Those are the two guys I want to make sure we bring back (especially Dimitri), but I haven't heard any news on either of them. Is Heckert not interested or are they testing the FA market?

stlouisfan37
03-15-2012, 03:05 AM
Just a thought...if Manning were to sign with Tennessee, it would almost certainly mean that Hasselbeck gets cut, and I think the first one to call him would be Mike Holmgren. How would you guys feel about bringing in Hasselbeck and then drafting Tannehill to be groomed? This pure speculation.

kalbears13
03-15-2012, 03:58 AM
Just a thought...if Manning were to sign with Tennessee, it would almost certainly mean that Hasselbeck gets cut, and I think the first one to call him would be Mike Holmgren. How would you guys feel about bringing in Hasselbeck and then drafting Tannehill to be groomed? This pure speculation.

Honestly I would rather wait until next year to draft a quarterback but that's just me.

fear the elf
03-15-2012, 10:31 AM
Does anybody know the story on Dimitri Patterson and Mike Adams? Those are the two guys I want to make sure we bring back (especially Dimitri), but I haven't heard any news on either of them. Is Heckert not interested or are they testing the FA market?

Dimitri is coming back. Posted this in the FA thread...


Browns re-sign CB Dimitri Patterson. Three-years, $16 million. I really liked him last year but that's probably more than we should have spent.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/15/browns-re-sign-cornerback-patterson-for-three-years-16-million/

CowboyFan73
03-16-2012, 09:38 AM
Good Morning Browns fans,
I am a Cowboy Fan but I have always admired the Browns. I have been seeing alot of talk about the browns draft Trent Richardson. That would be a good pick up but in my personal opinion, how about Morris Claiborne. That will be a tough secondary with Haden, Claiborne, and Ward. By the way, I live near Baltimore. Second 1st rounder, pick up a reciever. You can find a good running back in the 2nd or 3rd round, we did last year. Don't waste the money on a running back use on a top 5 corner!

keylime_5
03-16-2012, 02:02 PM
IMO Claiborne is the favorite to be the Browns pick at #4, all things being equal........there might be a decision to draft a similarly rated player who plays offense instead though since we are so talent-deprived offensively and pretty good defensively - so they might draft Richardson (or maybe even Blackmon, but I don't think so) just to get some offensive playmakers on this team.

Our only offensive building blocks in place are Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, and Greg Little. Defensively we have D'Qwell Jackson, Chris Gocong, Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Jabaal Sheard, Ahtyba Rubin, and Phil Taylor - plus a lot of nice stopgap role players and some decent depth (Frostee Rucker, Juqua Parker, Marcus Benard, Scott Paxson, Sheldon Brown, Usama Young, Dimitri Patterson, and Buster Skrine are all decent). We are ready to roll for the 2012 season defensively - but offensively we need a new starting RB, OG, RT, WR, and QB as bad as any team in the league. 4 or 5 MAJOR holes offensively.

Personally I am against drafting RBs in the first round unless it's Peterson or Tomlinson or Sanders type once in a generation guy. I want us to take a premium position like CB, DL, OT, QB, or even WR with our #4 pick, which might mean we should trade down.

I think this will be a decisively offensive draft for the Browns, even if it means taking a RB or OT in a bad value like round 1 when you can get a really good one in round 2 or 3.

Brown Leader
03-21-2012, 10:51 AM
tRBDMMVctu8

Brown Leader
04-03-2012, 02:37 PM
Our new uniforms...

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/524023_10150716589624684_87392379683_9225669_60693 5075_n.jpg
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s720x720/529307_10150716582519684_87392379683_9225625_31900 9140_n.jpg
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/528815_10150716573139684_87392379683_9225582_12182 22686_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/398967_10150716587624684_87392379683_9225660_12232 39761_n.jpg

fear the elf
04-04-2012, 10:19 AM
Not much changed, which I'm sure is what we all expected.

I don't like the gloves. They should have used a different logo, LIKE THE DAMN ELF! Or the football with the 'B' in it. I've never really cared for using a picture of a helmet as a logo...

diemertsdawgs
04-08-2012, 12:17 AM
I like these options with our two first rounders:

1. #4 = T.Richardson RB Bama & #22 = Stephen Hill WR Ga. Tech
2. #4 = J.Blackmon WR Ok.St. & #22 = Stephen Hill WR Ga. Tech
(Both of these options make our offense instantly better and help McCoy)
3. #4 = M. Claiborne CB LSU & #22 = Stephen Hill WR Ga. Tech
4. #4 = R.Tannehill QB A&M & #22 = Dont'a Hightower LB Bama
(I don't really like taking Tannehill this high.)
5. #4 = trade down with either STL/JAX/MIA/SEA & #22 trade down again.

diemertsdawgs
04-08-2012, 12:24 AM
We can't have a helmet logo. We can have a team logo other than a blank helmet though. I like the Elf, the B in the football shape, and I've always liked the dog head logo. We just can't put something on the helmets though, changing the uniform I would consider but not the helmet...never.

keylime_5
04-29-2012, 07:14 PM
Early early early 53-man roster outlook:

Brandon Weeden-QB
Colt McCoy-QB
Seneca Wallace-QB
Trent Richardson-RB
Montario Hardesty-RB
Brandon Jackson-RB
Owen Marecic-FB (or) Brad Smelley-FB
Greg Little-WR
Mohamed Massaquoi-WR
Joshua Cribbs-WR
Jordan Norwood-WR
Travis Benjamin-WR
Benjamin Watson-TE
Evan Moore-TE
Alex Smith-TE
Jordan Cameron-TE
Joe Thomas-LT
Alex Mack-C
Mitchell Schwartz-RT
Jason Pinkston-OG
Shawn Lauvao-OG
Oniel Cousins-RT/OG
John Greco-OG
Ryan Miller-OG/RT
(OG/C not yet on roster)

Jabaal Sheard-DE
Frostee Rucker-DE
Juqua Parker-DE
Marcus Benard-DE
Ahtyba Rubin-DT
Phil Taylor-DT
John Hughes-DT
Billy Winn-DT
Scott Paxson-DT (or) Brian Schaefering-DT
D'Qwell Jackson-MLB
Scott Fujita-SLB
Chris Gocong-OLB
Kaluka Maiava-WLB
Titus Brown-MLB
James-Michael Johnson-LB
Emmanuel Acho-LB
Joe Haden-CB
Sheldon Brown-CB
Dimitri Patterson-CB
Buster Skrine-CB
Trevin Wade-CB
TJ Ward-S
Usama Young-S
Eric Hagg-S
Ray Ventrone-S

Phil Dawson-K
Reggie Hodges-P
Chrisitan Yount-LS


some bubble players:
Emmanuel Stephens-DE
James Dockery-DB
Chris Ogbannaya-RB
Carlton Mitchell-WR
Thaddeus Lewis-QB (if we trade McCoy)

one more draft IMO before we start to look like a real NFL team talent-wise. We need pro bowl caliber players at WR, RDE, and DB added before we can start thinking about competing.......and that's assuming that Brandon Weeden turns into a good, franchise QB.

Brown Leader
05-09-2012, 02:00 PM
http://hqplayer.nbcsports.com/Player.html?PID=86

Tom Heckert on PFTL. All he makes me want to do is smh.

Iamcanadian
05-17-2012, 07:31 PM
I'll I heard was a lot of wishful thinking and little real facts. The guys job is on the line and another 4-12 season may well be his last in Cleveland.
I think Keylime is a lot more realistic and God help us if Weeden flops or doesn't come up to snuff for 3 or 4 seasons.

Brown Leader
05-22-2012, 03:56 PM
recent news...

rotoworld: Coach Pat Shurmur says Greg Little and Mohamed Massaquoi are the Browns' "early starters" at receiver.
Little can be safely penciled in as the No. 1 wideout, but Massaquoi will have to fight off fourth-round pick Travis Benjamin. It's an advantage for Massaquoi to begin OTAs atop the depth chart, but he'll be far from guaranteed of starting in Week 1. He hasn't been the same player since his October 2010 concussion, and turned in a thoroughly unimpressive 2011. The Browns have proven almost comically hesitant to cut the cord on disappointing players, however, so Massaquoi's chances of winning the job can't be discounted.


Massa v Benjamin for the #2? Oh ****. I'd sooner make Norwood the #2. And are they forgetting which WR had the best camp last year? (Cribbs)Or are they going to phase him out like they did Hillis?

How to fix the Browns offense:
1-6. Someone innovative help Pat Shurmur. It's really head scratching that his offense actually did worse than Mangini's. Classic example of trying to fit guys to a system rather than building a system around your guys.

rotoworld: 5/21 - Browns GM Tom Heckert says CB Sheldon Brown will not be moving to safety.
"Sheldon Brown is never going to play safety unless some disaster happens," Heckert said. "You can put that to bed." There have been rumblings of a position switch for Brown since his Philly days, but it's not happening in Cleveland. Now 33, Brown will be pushed for the No. 2 corner job by Dimitri Patterson and Buster Skrine. Usama Young and T.J. Ward are the Browns' starting safeties. rotoworld: 5/22 - Browns S Eric Hagg is working as the first-team free safety in OTAs.
Usama Young is running with the second team after starting eight games in 2011. A seventh-round pick last season, Hagg appeared in only 10 games, notching 11 tackles.

Yikes. Looks like a disaster to me.

rotoworld:Browns GM Tom Heckert reiterated that the organization views rookie Brandon Weeden as its starting quarterback in 2012.
"The best guyís gonna play, but we fully expect Brandon to be that guy," Heckert said. "... Right now thatís our goal is to have [Weeden] be the guy." Colt McCoy and Seneca Wallace are considered expendable backups at this point. Heckert said learning Pat Shurmur's West Coast offense has been "nothing" for Weeden.

I watched a ton of games of Weeden from last season but hadn't watched much of 10'. This is a good cut up of his first year starting at Ok State. Evaluate for yourself.

hpkLIET5uvA

rotoworld:Browns GM Tom Heckert says NT Phil Taylor (torn pectoral) will "definitely" return during the 2012 season.
"100%," said Heckert. "We think he'll be back end of October, early November. ... It's six months at the most, and that's being very, very cautious. He could be back earlier." Taylor will start the season on PUP, but the Browns expect him to return not long after. Scott Paxson is penciled in as the interim starter.

For a guy out of nowhere I liked Paxson last season. He was a better run defender then Taylor. I'm intrigued to see what he does with the opportunity.

keylime_5
06-04-2012, 08:44 PM
sounds like early on this is our starting lineup outlook for 2012:

QB-Weeden
RB-Richardson
FB-Marecic (unless Smelley can beat him out)
WR-Little
WR-Massaquoi
TE-Watson
LT-Thomas
LG-Pinkston
C-Mack
RG-Lauvao
RT-Schwartz

LE-Sheard
DT-Hughes/Paxson/Winn
DT-Rubin
RE-Rucker
WLB-Gocong
MLB-Jackson
SLB-Fujita
LCB-Haden
SS-Ward
FS-Hagg
RCB-Brown

-when Fujita is suspended Gocong will play SAM linebacker and either Johnson or Maiava will play WILL. I'm excited about seeing Johnson out there as a rookie 4th rounder starting at WILL.

-Taylor getting hurt stings. He will reportedly be out until November at least. I was looking forward to seeing our run defense drastically improved with a second year Taylor combined with Rucker (who is strong in run support) and the much needed quality depth we added at DT and DE this year.

-Our defensive line should still be decent though with rookies John Hughes (who excels at holding the point and stopping the run) and Billy Winn (under sized 3 tech who was a steal in round 6). What will really be big additions are Juqua Parker as a situational pass-rusher, and the return of Marcus Benard - who was our best pass rusher since we signed him as an UDFA and reportedly is unblockable off the edge in OTAs so far. I'm really excited about Benard. They will slide Rucker inside to DT on passing downs and put Benard or Parker out there at DE, so our pass rush will be better this year.

Gonna be a rough year this year though with that schedule and such a young team. We should be improved even though we'll probably only win 5 or 6 games.

ArkyRamsFan
06-05-2012, 01:16 PM
Keylime,

If the Browns only win 5 games or so do you think Shurmer will survive and be back next year?

keylime_5
06-05-2012, 02:44 PM
i have no idea. i guess if they improve they'll keep him. a lot probably depends on the media heat and if he makes some of the same boneheaded coaching mistakes that he made last year. If we are healthy and we improve a lot on offense like we should then we probably win between 5 and 7 games with that schedule, and in that scenario i would keep him.

OhioJB
06-10-2012, 04:55 AM
Keylime,

If the Browns only win 5 games or so do you think Shurmer will survive and be back next year?

I'll chime in, even though you didn't ask me. Mike Holmgren told Pat Shurmur that winning 4 or 5 games this year wouldn't be good enough. Whether that means Pat's job is on the line based on win totals this year wasn't mentioned, but it could be if Holmgren doesn't see enough progress in the offense, I'm guessing.

Believe it was during Tony Rizzo's interview with Holmgren a couple of weeks ago that I heard him say that. By the way, espncleveland.com has podcasts of interviews they've done recently. Rizzo's show is called The Really Big Show, just in case you aren't from the area and don't listen to that show.

OhioJB
06-10-2012, 05:10 AM
keylime, the one position I hope you're wrong about is RG. Unless Lauvao proves his pass blocking has improved I'm hoping he gets beat out. Greco looked decent the little he played last year, and it's possible the rookie out of Colorado could push for some early playing time. Only problem with the latter is we'd have rookies at both RG and RT. If Greco starts they could put him at LG and use Pinkston at RG. If I recall correctly the little he did play, it was at LG mostly.

Only other thing I noticed from your list was Shaefering was missing. I liked him at DT a little better than Paxson, who's a little smaller.

keylime_5
06-11-2012, 10:45 AM
If Lauvao gets beat out at RG that is about the worst case scenario we can have. We know what Greco and Cousins are. Below average run blockers. Lauvao basically missed his rookie year entirely due to injury so 2011 was basically his first season playing in the NFL. Hopefully he can improve this year and prove to be a solid starting guard. For the sake of this team hope and pray that Lauvao turns out to be the guy who wins the RG spot easily.

Schaefering I think could/will make the team with Taylor being hurt. Not sure how many DTs they wanna keep. Paxson is ahead of him though after a surprise year last year and the fact that he is running 1st team DT in minicamps/OTAs and the coaches mention him and the rookies competing for the starting spot with no mention of Schaefering.

If I were to revise that list I'd put Schaefering on it though -b/c I didn't realize that we didn't tender Titus Brown, so add Schaefering and remove Brown.

mdmgrand
06-13-2012, 08:06 PM
This year is going to be a long one, probably another 4-12 or 5-11 season, but it will prove to be very significant in the development of the entire team.

- After hating the initial pick, I am now happy with Weeden at 22. This gives the Browns at least three years of having continuity at the QB position (sadly even if he's terrible). I'm just happy with a decision being made.

- Phil Taylor is a great player, but his injury may open the door for the development of a deep and diverse tackle rotation. This will be huge for the development of both phases of the defense of years to come.

- I really believe the Holmgren and Heckert era will get another year, and I'm willing to wait to develop their guys, rather than have a new regime come in and cut or trade our only quality players. This happens too much in this quick to anger, and quick to fire league. I want this year and next year to still be a transitional phase. By next year, with another solid draft, I believe the team will be fighting a solid Steeler team, an up and down Bengals team, and a Ravens team that could go two ways, depending on their defense and their defense's age.

OhioJB
06-17-2012, 01:08 PM
At this point I'm not sure what to expect in regards to final record. So many unknowns, which actually will make it an interesting year to watch. I doubt the offense could be as bad as it was last season. Pre-season will give us a hint of what's to come, but the 'real' 2012 Browns may not be apparent until the third or fourth game, since we will have rookies at QB, RB, and RT.

On offense I'll be intrigued by the following:

1) Brad Childress and how much of a difference he makes as OC. From what I understand, he'll be in the booth and Shumur will get input from him on play-calling, but the HC will be the one calling the plays. I'm jumping to conclusions a little with saying Pat will end up calling them, but that seems to be what's going to happen. I do believe Childress was a very good hire, and I hope this works out, as we all do.

2) Trent Richardson. Some believe because he's had knee/ankle problems he wont be given a heavy workload in the NFL. I'm guessing he'll get the ball at least 20 times a game. Trent probably intrigues me more than anyone on the offensive side, even more than Weeden. Will he be an "ordinary back", as Jim Brown said, or will he develop into an almost Barry Sanders type back? Time will tell. Highlights can be misleading, but he does have some escapability to go along with his powerful running stye. If he is the exceptional back we need, it will take a tremendous amount of pressure off our rookie QB, and help the passing game as teams start stacking the box to protect against the run. I'm excited about this player's potential, but that's all it is until he proves himself.

3) Weeden. Considering how QB's have disappointed Browns fans, I'm not going to buy into him being the answer too soon. I do like the fact he's got good size and a strong arm, but I want to see how well he reads defenses and how accurate he is when he's about to get hit. I like his confidence, but hope he doesn't prove to have a screw loose or is flaky. A couple of things make wonder but we'll see. Afterall he was a baseball player and they think a little differently.

4) Schwartz. Joe Thomas described him as a technician, but I thought he was supposed to be more of a mauling type of RT with decent feet in the passing game. I just hope he can keep our QB protected on the right side.

5) Guards. Could be interesting battles at both guard positions. Pinkston probably will be kept at LG, we'll see what happens at RG. The OG/OT(?) out of Colorado was an interesting selection. Just curious how this plays out. We HAVE to have better pass protection from both the RG and RT.

6) WR's. They are the mystery men, who either got lost in a Bermuda triangle type of alternate universe last season, or Colt was even worse than what some fans, including myself, suspected at the time. Along with poor pass protection of course. Holmgren keeps saying they like their guys at WR, so they need to produce this season big time. MoMass is either in the last year of his contract or has one year remaining. Regardless, he needs to have a very good year if he wants good money next year, or to build a better reputation for when his contract does expire.

7) Backup RB's. Brandon Jackson is in the last year of his contract so will have extra motivation after missing last season due to injury. And Hardesty will be in his second season back after his knee injury. I would not be shocked if we have a two headed monster of Richardson and Hardesty, with Jackson backing up. I'm not convinced Hardesty is a bust yet, but this year is extremely important for him.

8) TE's. This group, well, I'm not too sure what to make of them. Watson is the trusty veteran with limited jumping ability. Evan Moore showed flashes two years ago of being a very good threat as a kind of WR/TE hybrid. Last season he was on the sidelines alot for some reason. Was he running poor routes? I never did hear an explanation of what was going on with him. Jordan Cameron didn't contribute much, and now we have TE/FB hybrid in Smelley. Not sure if he'll play FB or TE.

On defense:

1) CB. Please, somebody beat out Sheldon Brown. It's hard for someone of his size to play CB in the NFL, as was proven by how far off he had to play WR's. Doubt we have a player on the team who'll beat him out, unless rookie Trevin Wade shocks the world and starts at CB. Usama Young, or the player they got from Philly last year (can't think of his name offhand, might be an option. And they like Hagg but he'll stay at safety it appears.

2) S. Will Ward still be a starter? Probably, but he isn't a good cover safety. Wont be surprised if Young and Hagg end up starting at the safety positions, with Ward contributing on probable run plays.

3) LB's. Just want to see how the rookies play this year. If both draft picks work out, it'll make a big difference, especially with Fujita being suspended the first three games. We need an infusion of young LB talent.

4) DT. Really interesting battle for the starting role next to Rubin, and for the backup positions. A couple of rookies thrown in the mix to make it interesting.

5) DE. Rucker and Parker playing opposite Sheard could possibly give us an excellent d-line.

Like the way things are headed, but so many variables at this point it's hard to tell how this team will play in 2012. I'm looking forward to this pre-season and season probably more than any other in a long time.

And now the rumors are the Browns really want to move McCoy, so he may be gone soon with little in return. Guess it's better if he's unhappy behind the scenes as Rizzo eluded to about a week ago, or if they like their other QB's better.

I'm curious about our apparent 3rd stringer. Always forget his name since we hardly see him or hear about him. It's hard to believe he'd be a better option than Colt as the 3rd stringer, but again, if Colt's that unhappy, I guess the best thing to do would be to trade him.

Still not 100% convinced Pat Shurmur is the man for the job, considering all the experienced coaches around him, but their experience might help him become a better HC than appeared he was last year. Maybe he just needs time to improve. I do like his demeanor as it seems he handles pressure decently, and the players see that and will be more likely not to blow things out of proportion as well.

I realize not everyone is buying into what Holmgren has done and the people he's brought into the organization, but I'm one that does. I fully expect a playoff appearance in 2013. And this season could end up being better than many expect. I'm not predicting it but wont be shocked if it happens.

Iamcanadian
06-18-2012, 01:15 PM
4 wins again is all I'm expecting. Just too many holes and too inexperienced at QB for much more.
Solid breakdown of the team, good job.

OhioJB
06-18-2012, 02:12 PM
Thanks. Was bored and decided to post a few thoughts.

Sounds like you are thinking about the same as Vegas. On the radio today they mentioned the over/under for wins this year is set at 4.5. I'd probably go out on a limb and take the over, as I can see them winning at least 5 or 6 games. The running game should be much better which I'm thinking will help in the win column.

Actually, I'd probably bet online but I doubt I'd get paid if I won. Believe it's still illegal. But we can have casinos dropping coins in one armed bandits. Humph...

Brown Leader
06-20-2012, 11:59 AM
We should be all over Plaxico Burress. I'm quite sure he'd be better then Massaquoi this season. His presence could also help out the inexperienced WR corps.

Brown Leader
06-20-2012, 12:03 PM
Film break down of Little's drops...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1226343-cleveland-browns-film-study-why-did-greg-little-drop-that-pass

OhioJB
07-07-2012, 06:33 AM
Wonder why our front office plays games while negotiating contracts. There's a difference between hard negotiating and being impossible. If the word on the street is true, the hold up on Weeden's contract is whether the 4th year will be guaranteed, and he's set to make 8.1 million (approximately) over that four year stretch.

The bottomline is if Phil Taylor was able to hold out last year to have his 4th year guaranteed, you know a QB's 4th year will be guaranteed. They were drafted about the same place in the first round.

If he proves to be good enough to have as our starting QB through three years, he'll get paid anyway in the 4th year. And if something happens that he isn't our starter, he'll probably be another team's QB by that time.

It just doesn't make sense to me. A lot of people thought Hillis and his agent were being difficult during negotiations, but maybe it was more the Browns FO that was the problem. Weeden sounds frustrated, saying it takes two sides to come to an agreement.

I realize because of possible injuries most players wouldn't want to do this, but he'd almost be better off saying, "If you don't want to guarantee the 4th year, I'll just sign for three and then I'll be up for a new contract a year earlier". It'd be a gamble, because he'd have to remain the starter to get a great contract, but if he proves to be the answer at QB it'll pay off. Off course they could use the franchise tag at that time, but that would be a big pay day in itself.

Just seems the Browns need to start negotiating in a wiser fashion.

j05son
07-31-2012, 09:14 PM
Is there a petition for Mark Cuban to buy the Browns? I know he's been in the market for another franchise, he's worth 2.3 billion if you believe wikipedia, he grew up near Pittsburgh but I heard he was a Cleveland fan (don't know if that part is true).

Lerner has expressed interest in selling the team (I'm sure IAC is very glad) and I would be trilled if Cuban would throw his name in the ring.

btw, if there is no petition, we should start one. Let Cuban see all the support he would be getting from fans in a petition to have him bid for the team.

OhioJB
08-01-2012, 05:06 AM
Looks like the deal for Haslam to buy the team will be pretty much a done deal sometime this month, reportedly.

This is a deal I'm taking a wait and see approach to, but have to say I don't have a good feeling about it, because it could mean the end of the Mike Holmgren era, and possibly Heckert and the coaching staff. If that happens I'll be p***** off. We finally have a FO that knows what it's doing and works in a professional manner, and some quality coordinators and assistant coaches. Even though I'm not high on Shurmur, that situation would be straightened out eventually under Holmgren.

But now, who knows? With Haslam having controlling interest as owner, and Banner possibly becoming team president, it's possible they'll blow the whole thing up. Back to square one so they can say they did it their way with their people.

On the otherhand if they use commonsense, they'll leave things intact, with exception of possibly replacing Shurmur at season's end, depending on how the team does this season.

Would hate to see Holmgren leave if that's what happens. They have a good thing going in Berea, and he's the reason we were able to get guys like Heckert, Jauron, Childress, and Cromwell. And they've drafted well for the most part, so things are on the right track. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns win nine games or more this season, shocking the league. Might even see a playoff appearance.

Let's hope Haslam and Banner don't destroy what Holmgren and Company have built so far.

BuckeyeDan17
08-01-2012, 04:44 PM
I don't think we have a snowball's chance in hell at 500, let alone being over it. Further, I'd be glad to see Holmgren's fat ******* ass shipped out of Cleveland, but then again it's unfortunate we have to start over.

I see this sale as a double-edged sword one way or another. Once the deal is done, he needs to address what's going to happen with the front office.

I can't believe that sack of **** Randy Lerner is selling this team during the first ******* week of training camp. Seriously man? Jesus Christ.

j05son
08-01-2012, 08:34 PM
Stability in the front office would do WONDERS for this team. I've had this stance since I've been a member here and have been against the majority of the firings (especially the Mangini one but that whole front office fiasco with Kokinis and company was done wrong from the start. GM's hire coaches and Mangini was a hell of a coach. He was a **** GM). Thus it will be of no surprise that I would like to keep the majority of the front office and as much of the coaching staff on tact for as long as possible.

I don't mind Lerner as an owner regardless of the **** posters on this site (mainly IAC) but I would love, love, LOVE, to see Mark Cuban own this franchise.

BuckeyeDan17
08-01-2012, 09:13 PM
As a Browns fan I don't even know what stability means, really. I actually like Heckert but it pisses me off royally when Holmgren steps in and goes "let's do this and this" in the draft.

Actually, the thing that made me the most pissed off at Holmgren was when he said to Browns fans "you're either with us or against us" regarding the decision making.

I may have interpreted that the wrong way, but from what I took from it, where the **** do you get the ******* balls to ever question a Browns fan's loyalty after what that franchise has put its fans through?

Brown Leader
08-02-2012, 12:57 PM
That crazy scenario I suggested, in which the Browns end up with the #1 overall and find it hard to pass up an all world talent at QB suddenly doesn't look so crazy. Let's say Weeden has a not so impressive rookie year and the Browns' young guys don't all come through, while Thomas, Wilson, Bray or Barkley have huge collegiate seasons. Haslem is reportedly a football guy. He'll find guys to do the research and evaluate our evaluators. If he comes to really covet one of these top prospects as a bonafide franchise QB and doesn't feel as strong on Weeden, do we become the first squad to draft back to back 1st round QBs?

I'm not figuring more than 3 wins this year so I think #1 is a distinct possibility. Mia, Jac and a surprise team will probably be in the mix too. Obviously best case would be to trade it..(or Weeden). When's the last time you've seen a team heading into the season depending on as many unproven players as this year's squad? If it works, hats off and we're back in contention, but it's one of the bigger gambles I've ever seen. If it tanks it could be all their jobs.

BuckeyeDan17
08-03-2012, 02:55 PM
BL, I think your scenario's far more likely than not, simply put. I've little to no faith in Weeden; as a matter of fact, the selection of him lead to disinterest in the upcoming season for me. But I'll see how it plays out and as a fan, I'd be more than happy to be completely wrong.

Iamcanadian
08-04-2012, 05:42 PM
That crazy scenario I suggested, in which the Browns end up with the #1 overall and find it hard to pass up an all world talent at QB suddenly doesn't look so crazy. Let's say Weeden has a not so impressive rookie year and the Browns' young guys don't all come through, while Thomas, Wilson, Bray or Barkley have huge collegiate seasons. Haslem is reportedly a football guy. He'll find guys to do the research and evaluate our evaluators. If he comes to really covet one of these top prospects as a bonafide franchise QB and doesn't feel as strong on Weeden, do we become the first squad to draft back to back 1st round QBs?

I'm not figuring more than 3 wins this year so I think #1 is a distinct possibility. Mia, Jac and a surprise team will probably be in the mix too. Obviously best case would be to trade it..(or Weeden). When's the last time you've seen a team heading into the season depending on as many unproven players as this year's squad? If it works, hats off and we're back in contention, but it's one of the bigger gambles I've ever seen. If it tanks it could be all their jobs.

I would love for the Brown's to have the #1 overall pick but it is going to be a very tough call for Holmgren to abandon Weedon so quickly and admit he wasted a 1st round pick for practically nothing.
Weedon won't fetch much more than a 3rd or 4th rounder if the Brown's try to dump him, I think it will only come about if Holmgren is fired and the new owner brings in his own people and starts fresh.

Thank god!!! :love: that we have a new owner, it is the best thing that has happened to the new Browns.

Iamcanadian
08-04-2012, 05:46 PM
I actually think Weedon will be decent but rookie QB's quite often suffer on losing teams and he may well need a full 3 years before he is truly productive, which begs the question of how long a career he will have and why would a GM put such an old player as his building block for the future when it is so limited.

Brown Leader
08-05-2012, 09:49 PM
and so.....

New Browns ownerís first question: Can Brandon Weeden play?
- Michael David Smith

In a strong indication of how important rookie quarterback Brandon Weeden is to the future of the franchise, new Browns owner Jimmy Haslam says the very first thing he inquired about when talking to the teamís football boss, Mike Holmgren, was the progress of Weedenís development.

Haslam told the Canton Repository that when he sat down with Holmgren for the first time, he got straight to the point, and asked whether Holmgren believes the team has its quarterback of the future.

ďThe first question I asked him was, ĎCan Brandon Weeden play?íĒ Haslam said. ďTo win in the NFL, you have to have a quarterback. OK? So the question is, can Brandon Weeden play?Ē

Itís not surprising that Haslam didnít ask whether Colt McCoy can play ó everyone in Cleveland seems to have agreed that McCoy is the past and Weeden is the present and future. Itís also not surprising that Holmgren ó who took Weeden with the 22nd pick in this yearís NFL draft ó answered that he thinks Weeden can play very well.

ďHe said, ĎYeah. He can throw the ball. He can throw the ball. He can play,íĒ Haslam relayed Holmgren saying.

Haslam also wanted to know whether the Brownsí second-round draft pick, Mitchell Schwartz, will be ready to play at right tackle and give Cleveland another good starter on the offensive line along with left tackle Joe Thomas and center Alex Mack.

ďIs the right tackle going to be good?Ē Haslam asked Holmgren. ďBecause we have a great left tackle. We have a great center. NFL teams . . . generally, if you have two good tackles and a center, youíre gonna be in good shape.Ē

Haslam wouldnít say anything about the job security of Holmgren, G.M. Tom Heckert or head coach Pat Shurmur, other than itís fair to say that Haslam wants to see progress during the 2012 season.

And there would be no greater sign of progress than Weeden establishing himself as a franchise quarterback.

BuckeyeDan17
08-06-2012, 11:26 AM
How do you guys feel about the starting line?

Thomas Pinkston Mack Shawn L Schwartz

Meh? Left could be great if Pinkston makes a stride this year. No clue what to expect from right though. I've seen nothing of Schwartz so I don't know.

keylime_5
08-07-2012, 08:02 AM
Thomas and Mack are good, Schwartz should be solid as a rookie and then be a stalwart at right tackle for a long time. Pinkston is apparently really improved now that he has an offseason under his belt and he is now used to playing guard after being a left tackle his entire career. Those 4 don't worry me at all. I think if Lauvao turns out to be good (or if we replace him next year with a good RG) then our O-Line will be very formidable. Definitely one of the strongest, most promising units on the team. We have long term solutions at at least 4 of the 5 spots right now.


Anyone else pumped to see how Jordan Cameron looks in the preseason? He's been a touchdown machine in camp thus far, definitely the most impressive offensive player thus far.

Brown Leader
08-08-2012, 02:37 AM
I've been reading way too many homers hurling "sky is falling" to anyone raising serious concern over Trent's knee. Face it. It's a MAJOR concern the RB we traded up for at #3, who had a knee scope post season, now has soreness in the same knee midway thru his first training camp. Major.

I'm anxious to get a look at Hagg. Safety looks like the weakest unit on the team right now.

The line? Lauvao was just plain bad last season and hasn't really shown anything entering his 3rd season. I thought Schwartz was the best to 2nd best RT coming out but early reports are he's struggling a bit. But then again reportedly so is DeCastro. Still don't know if it was wise to pass Cordy Glenn to take Schwartz though. I liked Pinkston coming out and think he did a reasonable job as a rookie but it was still mediocre.

keylime_5
08-09-2012, 09:09 PM
It's very premature to call what Trent has a "major" concern. Maybe a slight concern. It's preseason. Teams are careful with runningbacks b/c they take a pounding during the season. They want to make sure he is fine by the time we start playing with live ammo. Start worrying when he starts to miss real games and actually gets hurt. Guys getting a couple knee scopes in an offseason is not un-normal.

Brown Leader
08-09-2012, 11:30 PM
It's very premature to call what Trent has a "major" concern. Maybe a slight concern. It's preseason. Teams are careful with runningbacks b/c they take a pounding during the season. They want to make sure he is fine by the time we start playing with live ammo. Start worrying when he starts to miss real games and actually gets hurt. Guys getting a couple knee scopes in an offseason is not un-normal.

He is actually hurt. And he's gotten a couple of scopes months before he's played his first game. Not normal. It's major in the context of this fo, and where he was drafted, and the position he plays.

Brown Leader
08-15-2012, 12:19 AM
"What? You didn't have a concussion?....so you're just soft."

Massaqoui needs to be cut asap. If I have have to sit thru another season of this guy wincing and stumbling everytime he gets tackled I'll hurt someone.

OhioJB
08-19-2012, 04:38 AM
Regarding the O-line, it has the potential to be much improved, especially if Lauvao is replaced by Greco or another player (not sure who at this point). My issue with Shaun is his pass blocking. Run blocking he's decent though. I'm hoping with Schwartz next to him rather than a hurt player basically playing on one good leg, that he'll improve. Part of the reason Pinkston's done a pretty good job, is because he's playing between Mack and Thomas, two of the best at their respective positions.

I noticed Greco has played center some this pre-season, and did a fine job from what I could tell. Based on the little he played last year at guard, I do think he's a better option than Lauvao.

Cousins on the other hand has been terrible at OT. Way too many penalties.

BuckeyeDan17
08-25-2012, 04:09 PM
Philadelphia is going to beat the living **** out of us week 1. Our starting offense was overmatched even by their 2nd string squad.

Does anyone want to discuss how much we suck or is it getting old :(

Josh Gordon made a real nice catch though.

keylime_5
08-26-2012, 06:47 PM
-Their first team defense was on the field against us in that game. They played the 2nd string offense, but the starting defense is the unit we struggled against, not their backups.

-We looked great on the first drive. the ineptitudes were mostly on fumbling the ball 3 times and having a punt blocked. Pinkston had a bad game.

-Gordon did have a real nice catch. Weeden has a good arm.

-Remember the year after the Giants won their first super bowl and we got slaughtered by them in the preseason......and then in the regular season on MNF led by Derek Anderson we slaughtered the super bowl champ Giants (who were considered the best team in the league at the time...??? Preseason doesn't mean ****.


I expect us to struggle a lot at times on offense. We have a rookie QB, RB, WR, and RT starting plus second year players at FB, LG, WR, and pretty much RG too (Lauvao missed his rookie year with injury sans 1 game). The talent is promising though, and those guys have shown flashes.

Brown Leader
08-27-2012, 12:56 AM
We kept our starting offense in longer then they kept their starting defense and yes, even their 2nd string front dominated our line. And that's the worst I've seen Joe Thomas look. Hopefully he was loafing a little and will be prepared once the season hits. No matter how we'll look, I'm convinced Weeden is a better choice than Colt. The problem is whether anyone is going to get open and hold on to the ball. Trent better look all world or yikes...with our schedule.

And can we just get rid of Marecic now? This guy was the first FB taken? I'm disappointed in Hardesty too. I loved him coming out but his vision is terrible. He simply ducks his head and runs where it's designed to go.

BuckeyeDan17
08-27-2012, 01:43 PM
Yeah Marceic has been a huge disappointment thus far. His blocking scares no one. Perhaps Heckert took that into account upon his selection of Smelley? At least Smelley brings receiving skills but I don't know anything about him as a blocker.

Furthermore, hopefully Pinkston bounces back against Chicago and Weeden does something that helps him hold onto the ball. He needs to understand that ends and tackles are going to swing at it relentlessly. I've been a bit pessimistic and I apologize if it's been annoying.

It is nice to have a quarterback that's actually capable of throwing an NFL caliber deep ball and can accurately throw underneath routes. One of Colt's few positives ( i didn't give a **** about how many games he won in college, David Greene won a **** ton too) was his accuracy, but he showed little accuracy when he was thrown in.

Hopefully things slow down for Josh Gordon and he continues to put in the work in order to refine his game, dude's mega talented it'd be a shame for him to fail with how gifted he is.

To end my rant, Billy Wynn doesn't look bad at all, he seems like a nice player thus far. Also, James Michael-Johnson is holding up pretty well too. I think we hit on a couple players in the middle-rounds. Mitchell Schwartz needs to keep improving on balance also.

Brown Leader
08-29-2012, 10:47 PM
PFW - The following quotes are from NFL scouts, coaches and front-office personnel, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

ē ďThe biggest problem with Cleveland right now is that they burned high picks on two quarterbacks and still donít have one. (Brandon) Weeden is 28. By the time he cuts his teeth, he will be 32, so you have to start looking at another guy in the next year or two. That means they are going to spend another (early) pick on a quarterback when they could have gotten another difference maker instead. Who are their receivers? They donít have anyone that scares me. That doesnít make the job any easier.Ē

Right now the Browns biggest problems are imo...

1. Lauvao is the offensive line weak link. Clearly a bust of a 3rd round pick that Heckert hopes will get better. not happening.

2. Hardesty is a bust. There, I said it. I loved him coming out of Tenn but the guy is not shifty, doesn't have good vision and is injury prone. Jackson or someone else 2nd string.

3. Jordan Norwood needs more burn. Not exactly a hidden gem but he's the teams' best yac receiver and a more reliable pass catcher than Little, especially for the slot.

4. About Little. He needs a role closer to what he had in college. Make him a situational WR/RB and take advantage of his playmaking with the ball already in his hands and try to create mismatches out the backfield.

5. And Cribbs. The guy was carrying the team on his back before Shurmur arrived. Doesn't take much imagination to recognize he could be more valuable than strictly a special teams guy.

BuckeyeDan17
08-30-2012, 09:45 AM
totally with you on Hardesty. Wouldn't be surprised him cut after what looks to be a rather below average season even by 2nd string back standards. He takes the hand-off, and just lowers his head and hopes for the best it seems. Blind-folded.

keylime_5
09-02-2012, 04:21 PM
So cut day was last Friday, and now that the dust is starting to settle of the Week One 53-man rosters around the NFL, the Browns have FIFTEEN rookies to make the squad. Ten draftees and five undrafted players! That's a pretty freaking young team. Not to mention the number of second year players we already have (I think there are about nine or ten).

This is gonna be a rough year production-wise most likely, and I expect a lot of impatient fans calling for heads to roll after they see we don't win many games, but fifteen freaking rookies in our division you gotta be realistic. Not many coaches and GMs can win this year with the youth, inexperience, and talent we have right now. Hopefully Weeden, Richardson, Gordon, Little, Schwartz all turn out to be the real deal so we can start climbing out of the gutter next season though.

BuckeyeDan17
09-03-2012, 03:13 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8333353/trent-richardson-cleveland-browns-practices-ahead-opener

T-Rich is practicing :D

mdmgrand
09-03-2012, 09:13 PM
Alright I decided to sit down and write out my Cleveland season preview...

September 9th vs. Eagles: Loss (31-17)

September 16th @ Bengals: Win (27-21)

September 23rd vs. Bills: Win (20-14)

September 27th @ Ravens: Loss (31-10)

October 7th @ Giants: Loss (28-17)

October 14th vs. Bengals: Loss (20-17)

October 21st @ Colts: Win (31-21)

October 28th vs. Chargers: Loss (24-20)

November 4th vs. Ravens: Loss (27-17)

November 18th @ Cowboys: Loss (24-21)

November 25th vs. Steelers: Loss (17-14)

December 2nd @ Raiders: Win (28-24)

December 9th vs. Chiefs: Win (24-14)

December 16th vs. Redskins: Loss (34-31)

December 23rd @ Broncos: Loss (38-24)

December 30th @ Steelers: Win (13-10)

Record: 6-10

I believe that the Browns will finish anywhere from 5-11 to 7-9, so I looked at the games and came up with 6-10. They always play the division hard, and I realize that many believe the division to be vastly superior to them; I feel that only the Ravens can rightfully claim that now. The Browns also are lucky to play the AFC West which is an up and down, inconsistent division.

Offense

2011: Total PG - 288.8 (29th), Points PG - 13.6 (30th), Pass PG - 193.1 (24th), Rush PG - 95.7 (28th)

Projected 2012: Total PG: 325, Points PG - 20.7, Pass PG - 215, Rush PG - 110

- I fully believe that a full training camp in Shurmur/Childress' system and with the additions of Weeden, Richardson, Gordon and Schwartz the offense will become roughly a touchdown better. Weeden has a much bigger arm than McCoy, and while he may throw quite a few interceptions, I believe they will open up the playbook a bit. These bigger plays will inevitably help open up the running game, and the addition of Richardson with a healthy Hardesty, I believe a large improvement of 15 yards per game is attainable.

- I hope the play calling is aggressive and that they actually take shots down the field. The coaching staff should understand that the talent level and game experience of the team is relatively low and they should be more aggressive and use the athleticism of Gordon, Little, Cameron, Benjamin, and Richardson to their advantage.

- Random Stats:

Greg Litte with 95 Receptions, 1064 Yards, 5 Touchdowns

Trent Richardson with 1267 Yards on 288 Attempts, 32 Receptions for 272 Yards, 11 Touchdowns

Defense

2011: Total PG - 332.4 (10th), Points PG - 19.2 (5th), Pass PG - 184.9 (2), Rush PG 147.4 (30th)

Projected 2012: Total PG - 340, Points PG - 23.6, Pass PG - 215, Rush PG - 125

- This defense, statistically, is pretty impressive. They did rank 30th in rush defense but they kept the yards per attempt to 4.4 which ranked 19th. With the offensive project of more points, and a more competitive offense, this defense should naturally allow more passing yards and allow less rushing yards.

- The defense will be better with Rucker and the return of a healthy Ward. These two should provide help in both phases of the game. When Taylor returns, the defense will take a step up to a perennial Top 10 unit in the league. Haden's possible suspension could be a problem; I'm not worried about Fujita missing time, but Haden is a big time player and a premium position, so his suspension could allow DeSean Jackson, A.J. Green, Steve Johnson, and Torrey Smith extra big play opportunity.

Overview

This will be an interesting and exciting season for Browns' fans. The offense will go through their ups and downs, but overall, I see them improving. The defense, statistically, might take a step back, but their 2011 season was one with many anomalies. Overall, I see the young defense improving as an all-around unit.

Get ready guys and let's hope for a surprise wild card season, but let us enjoy the progression of the team we love the most. Go Brownies.

OhioJB
09-08-2012, 04:43 AM
Nice job mgmgrand. Very realistic. Important point about Weeden's arm that you made. We haven't had a QB in a very long time who could through those out pattern passes and sideline passes, as accurately and with as much zip on the ball as Weeden. If he can hold the INT totals down the Browns could surprise people. With Richardson the entire offensive dynamic changes, meaning the QB wont have to carry the team with his arm. Plus, Weeden has taken Kosar's advice in taking chances downfield to prevent defenses from stacking the box, something McCoy didn't do for whatever reason.

My best case scenario (while trying to be realistic to some degree):

Eagles - Loss
Bengals - Win
Bills - Loss (Have a bad feeling about this game)
Ravens - Win!
Giants - Win (Shockers 2 weeks in a row)
Bengals - Win
Colts - Win
Chargers - Loss
Ravens - Loss
Cowboys - Loss
Steelers - Win
Raiders - Win (Finally a win on the WC)
Chiefs - Win
Redskins - Win
Broncos - Win
Steelers - Loss

10-6 final record, with a possible playoff berth.

Special teams could throw a monkey wrench into this though. They have to improve.

Would love to see the Browns win against Philly to bump it up to 11-5. That should be enough to get them into the playoffs.

I admit a lot would have to go right for them to win 10 or 11 games, and it's an optimistic view, but I don't believe it's impossible. The defense is getting better, and the offense made huge upgrades at RB and possibly at QB. I also like Brandon Jackson as backup RB. Hardesty if he can hold onto the ball might be ok also, and the rookie WR's Benjamin and Gordon will help a lot right away.

We'll see, but I expect the Browns to make the playoffs every year. Guess I should temper my expectations, but I enjoy being optimistic this time of year.

Go Browns!

keylime_5
09-09-2012, 04:09 PM
-Young defense was great. Undrafted free agent rookie linebackers (Craig Robertson and LJ Fort) played really well. Jackson was a force, TJ Ward was a beast, and Joe Haden again proved that he is one of the top 5 in the game at his position. D-Line pressured Vick all day and the coverage was sound. All this despite being on the field allllll day. Very encouraging unit.

-Cribbs is still good. I wish we'd get him involved in the offense at least a little bit. Dumb coaches. Wasted talent.

-Eagles stacked the box with 8 all day and played press man-to-man coverage on our WRs all day. Richardson had no where to go. They should've tried to force the ball to him in open space at least on swing passes and screens more often.

-Weeden...ugh....probably the worst QB performance in Browns history. I know it's only one game, but has a QB with that kind of start ever turned out to be anything at all in the NFL???? Even a backup QB, let alone a starter???? How did this guy get taken in round one with accuracy and decision making like that when he is 29 years old? I don't wanna even talk about the other negatives, it's too depressing. The young WRs didn't look half bad, the QB is the problem right now with this team. I can stand everything else: OL, WR, TE, RB, and defense all are fine if we had a good QB to make the those units looks better than they are.

The Alex
09-09-2012, 04:57 PM
-Weeden...ugh....probably the worst QB performance in Browns history. I know it's only one game, but has a QB with that kind of start ever turned out to be anything at all in the NFL???? Even a backup QB, let alone a starter???? How did this guy get taken in round one with accuracy and decision making like that when he is 29 years old? I don't wanna even talk about the other negatives, it's too depressing. The young WRs didn't look half bad, the QB is the problem right now with this team. I can stand everything else: OL, WR, TE, RB, and defense all are fine if we had a good QB to make the those units looks better than they are.

Not a Cleveland fan, just posting this to answer your inquiry. Here is every instance of a rookie quarterback posting a QB Rating of less than 10 on at least 15 pass attempts

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=game&year_min=1960&year_max=2012&season_start=1&season_end=1&age_min=0&age_max=99&league_id=&team_id=&opp_id=&game_type=R&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=0&week_num_max=99&game_day_of_week=&game_location=&game_result=&is_active=&is_hof=&c1stat=pass_rating&c1comp=lt&c1val=10.0&c2stat=pass_att&c2comp=gt&c2val=15&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pass_rating

None of them preformed as poorly in their first game but Aikman had two games during his rookie season with a QB Rating under 5. Eli Manning put up a QB Rating of 0.0 against the Ravens during his rookie year.

Norman Snead is the only guy on that list who did it during week 1. He went on to have a lengthy journeyman career with a few decent seasons.

BuckeyeDan17
09-09-2012, 07:58 PM
Today I couldn't tell the difference between Brandon weeden and an abortion like I said in the game day thread. Felt bad for Trent. As soon as he got the hand off dudes were in his face.

I actually thought the o line did okay considering their first game of the season was against one of the best defensive lines the nfl has to offer.

As you said key the young guys on defense were light out today. Lj fort could have won us the game but nobody on the planet should pin the loss on him. Hadens a ******* star.

Buster skrine besides the moronic fair catch interference was okay. I actually like our secondary. Wards legit and its good to see him back out there. Dick jauran called an incredible game throwing multiple blitzes at Vick and making sure he stayed rattled and confused.

We weren't that good at stopping the run but the defended did everything you could have possibly asked.

I cant even talk about weeden he made me ******* sick today. What irked me the most was that he couldn't learn from his mistake on attacking cromartie.I understand the first one but the fact he did the exact same thing twice made me irate. He isn't even worth discussing any further.

Iamcanadian
09-10-2012, 04:14 PM
I can only see 3 or 4 wins at the most and only when our defense scores a few points.
If we win 5 or 6 gamesa, our HC should be COY because we aren't much of a football team.

Brown Leader
09-10-2012, 05:25 PM
3 or 4 wins almost seems generous. I don't think the defense is as good as it looked. That was just an awful performance by Vick; and Reid stubbornly showing confidence in him instead of leaning entirely on McCoy. I put that offensive display more on Shurmur then any of the players. This is the personal and the offense that he thought was the best we could field.

Weeden missed on some key throws, including 2 TD passes but it's hard to say if the bad timing with the receivers was entirely his fault. His pocket presence certainly was terrible, but what was really disheartening is that he got worse as the game went on. His confidence might already be shot after just one game. It didn't help that Shurmur also lost confidence in him.

But our HC really lost it when he went into his familiar shell after DQ put us ahead. You would think this guy would have learned after last season that trying to hang on for a win and not attacking just doesn't work.

Brown Leader
09-12-2012, 09:54 PM
Checked out the All 22 coaches film of the Eagles game. I've got to say I'm a little less critical of Shurmur and more so of the QB and WRs.

The Eagles played man press, single high S most of the game and the WRs rarely won. Unfortunately when they did it seemed like Weeden misfired. A few incompletions, especially 2nd half, were def on the WRs but Weeden missed an open A.Smith in the end zone and Ben Watson for a couple big plays that would have changed everything.

Late in the game his decision making really tanked, forcing throws instead of staying poised and seeing what the D might give him. Schwartz was absolutely owned by Babin, in the run and pass game. Richardson didn't make good on, really only a couple, opportunities to break a big run. Marecic is worthless but the Eagles actually played great run defense.

Seemed like Weeden and the WRs/TE are just not in sync enough to consistently beat press coverage. The only ray of hope is that most teams don't have as good of man press guys as the Eagles.

Interestingly, Luck looked a lot like Weeden for a good part of his first game but the big difference was Reggie Wayne and the semblance of a running game.

BuckeyeDan17
09-16-2012, 06:47 PM
The loss sucked but at least we looked like an nfl offense. We missed Joe badly today. Hagg is isn't an impactful player either but the front seven had another solid outing. The secondary had absolutely no leadership today it seemed. I don't believe in moral victories but it wasn't the normal pathetic Cleveland browns football we are used to seeing.

Cant say I'm too upset today. Was nice to see Trent greet the nfl. Schwartz looked better than last week also. Dimitri Patterson sucked.

keylime_5
09-16-2012, 10:56 PM
Good to see a real offensive playmaker on this team finally in Richardson. Weeden was very good too after the abortion that was last week. Nice to see the rookies bounce back. No Haden, no Brown, ugh, couldn't expect good pass D after losing those two. Haden is so important to keeping our secondary glued together apparently. D'Qwell Jackson and our strong defensive line that gets crazy good pressure is also very encouraging. Hopefully we build on that. Too bad for the PR TD and the long pass and run TD we gave up or it would've been a good road win instead of a tough road loss.

BuckeyeDan17
09-17-2012, 03:33 PM
also on a side note i'm really ******* sick of owen marecic. is he allergic to the ball?

D-Unit
09-24-2012, 07:24 PM
Haven't been watching any Browns games, but how do you evaluate your run game?

kalbears13
09-24-2012, 10:36 PM
Haven't been watching any Browns games, but how do you evaluate your run game?

Like a bull running with eleven freight trains coming at him with a few prepubescent girls standing in the way.

BuckeyeDan17
09-25-2012, 03:16 PM
Haven't been watching any Browns games, but how do you evaluate your run game?


Absolutely no push. Against the good front 4's, Trent essentially has guys in his face as soon as he takes the handoff. Our guard play in the rushing attack is pathetic.

D-Unit
09-25-2012, 03:42 PM
Like a bull running with eleven freight trains coming at him with a few prepubescent girls standing in the way.
Hahahaha! Too funny.

I think I overestimated the strength of your OL when I drafted Trent in my fantasy leagues. I saw Joe Thomas, Alex Mack... a high pick in Mitchell Swartz and 2 Guards that were NFL serviceable.

kalbears13
09-25-2012, 08:11 PM
Hahahaha! Too funny.

I think I overestimated the strength of your OL when I drafted Trent in my fantasy leagues. I saw Joe Thomas, Alex Mack... a high pick in Mitchell Swartz and 2 Guards that were NFL serviceable.

They're pretty solid against the pass.

keylime_5
09-26-2012, 06:55 PM
yeah, they keep the QB clean. Neither of our guards are maulers though and are both younger more finesse guys. Schwartz is a rookie (and he's actually done a fine job the past couple weeks since he got his NFL cherry busted by Jason Babin) and Thomas isn't having his best season. Not having any passing threat at all doesn't help Trent's case either.

Brown Leader
09-27-2012, 10:19 AM
In truth it's Trent too. He's still a rookie and feeling his way. I think there have been times he hasn't made the right cut or hit things as fast as he should have. I also hadn't realized till now how ineffective Watson and Cameron are in the run game. We really miss Alex Smith. Couple that with a rookie RT who's basically been hit or miss thru 3 games and a pair of pedestrian OGs who are better pass blockers then run blockers and you see the results. Not to mention a completely useless FB. Plus, our solid guys, Thomas and Mack, haven't played their best ball yet either.

The game tonight has the two best rookie RBs this year imo, Trent and Bernard Pierce. In case the score gets embarrassing, these two should be worth looking at and comparing.

Iamcanadian
09-27-2012, 08:05 PM
Until Weedon proves he can actually beat a defense by throwing, teams are going to continue with 7 or 8 bodies in the box making life miserable for the OL and RB's. Teams are simply saying Cleveland cannot beat you by throwing, so play defense to take away the run and Cleveland has no offense. And that will be the story the whole year.

BuckeyeDan17
09-29-2012, 07:40 PM
weeden almost did beat baltimore by throwing, yet we lost to baltimore because of his throwing (as well as other things) too.

oh well

keylime_5
09-30-2012, 01:53 PM
Yeah, Weeden threw it downfield well against Baltimore - and Trent had plenty of room to run when he got the ball, he just didn't get that many carries. The WRs need to step up and I think Weeden will start to progress even more.

BuckeyeDan17
10-07-2012, 10:10 PM
Terrible second half.. but our offensive line is starting to look really good at least.

kalbears13
10-07-2012, 10:11 PM
Terrible second half.. but our offensive line is starting to look really good at least.

More power sweeps.

BuckeyeDan17
10-14-2012, 06:44 PM
I tuned in to the game late. Does anyone know what happened to Pinkston?

kalbears13
10-14-2012, 10:03 PM
I tuned in to the game late. Does anyone know what happened to Pinkston?

I didn't have audio where I was at, so no.

BuckeyeDan17
10-15-2012, 02:15 PM
He was sick so they took him out.

Trent is day to day with rib cartilage injury.

They're unsure if Phil taylor comes off pup this week

Brown Leader
10-16-2012, 11:35 AM
Have we really gone from Schottenheimer (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-top-ten/09000d5d810aebd9/Top-Ten-Motivational-Coaches-Marty-Schottenheimer) to this....

hb0riFPkZgE

BuckeyeDan17
10-17-2012, 04:42 PM
Heckert thinks he's going to be fired - that's a shame, I like him. I know he drafted Owen Marecic early and Hardesty hasn't done much although he showed a pulse last week, but he has put some really nice players on this team and I'd totally give him a couple more years to get this thing going.

I think our defense would improve greatly with a legitimate free safety. Buster Skrine isn't awful when he's not matched up against elite WRs.

I really don't think we're that far off from a talent perspective, Sheard needs a partner in crime and the young linebackers show glimpses of sick potential then they get lost, they're rookies though.

I dunno, hopefully Banner retains Heckert but obviously there's a reason he doesn't feel optimistic. We'll see soon.

Brown Leader
10-18-2012, 11:24 AM
I don't know, but you get the sense that Haslem/Banner would rather this group stick together and improve then bring in another HC/GM and system. I think that would be their ideal scenario. It's unquestionable that Heckert has put guys out there with talent. The criticism is, what was the motivation to put together such an unproven cast this year? Is that supreme confidence or mismanagement? ...and what hand did Holmgren play in the personnel decisions? I'll bet how Weeden plays vs Luck this weekend will stick in our new execs minds more then some other contests.

BuckeyeDan17
10-18-2012, 01:27 PM
While this is speculation on my account, Holmgren did admit to pulling rank on the selection on Colt McCoy, and probably did with Weeden also. Moreover, I think it's wrong for a team President to impose his will on what systems the team will be running offensively and defensively. I just think Heckert got his toes stepped on a lot and the Walrus put him in an unfair position.

I just think TH deserves a shot to actually do his job, I don't give a **** what Holmgren did with Green Bay when I was like 8, he drove this organization into the ground even deeper.

keylime_5
10-21-2012, 04:49 PM
I think Heckert has done his job well. We tore down the old, veteran roster we had from Mangini and restocked it with a bunch of young players that we acquired with draft picks. That's how you build a good team in the NFL. We need to keep doing that regardless of who our GM is going forward. We have a lot of nice pieces in place. Still need another go to guy at WR and TE, plus some more talent on defense (esp. at pass rusher and in the secondary). We appear to have the QB in place though right now to turn the team around in the next few years finally.

BuckeyeDan17
10-22-2012, 12:31 PM
Yeah at this point I'm okay with Weeden for now. If the front office doesn't see a guy they like for the future in this draft, then put a different piece in place (Mingo, Jarvis Jones, Milliner, Best WR) and move forward with that.

Yes, I've been rough on Weeden but I can eat crow when it's appropriate. The dude is making things happen out there, it just sucks it coach is full re tard.

Do you guys see our run defense woes as talent deprivation or schematic issues? Both? We consistently get gashed for 5-6 yards it seems.

keylime_5
10-24-2012, 10:14 AM
run defense in the NFL is such a fickle thing. Our secondary outside of Haden is terrible, and the other team's ability to pass opens up the run for them. We can't put TJ Ward in the box and our young linebackers playing with Jackson aren't great against the run yet. Not to mention we've been starting either 1 or 2 rookie DTs with Taylor out and Rubin not being 100%. We just need more talent and depth on defense, we're not there yet though we saw glimpeses last year when we had a healthy unit.

cmarq83
11-15-2012, 09:22 AM
Hey guys I have a quick question for you. How do you feel about Josh Gordon going forward into next year? He had a good 3 week stretch, but seems to be getting lost in the shuffle again. The reason why I'm asking is because I'm in a dynasty league that only keeps starters and a flex player. My starting lineup is stacked, but my bench is awful so I'd prefer to keep a high upside guy like Gordon as my flex guy going into next season. Do you think he'll make the jump in year 2?

BuckeyeDan17
11-15-2012, 10:06 AM
There are a lot of elements to the equation. He has an extroidinarily incompetent play caller in Pat Shurmur and Weeden is okay to kind of good. He has undeniable talent and given the circumstances he has exceeded expectations. He went from not playing for two years to having an entire NFL playbooks thrown at him. Ive been satisfied with him and then some.

On to more of an answer for your question: we really cant say for sure until we make our head coaching hire and the FO gives an idea of what's going down at quarterback this offseason. I have no doubt he will improve his skillset moving forward but whether that translates into statistical production next season is up in the air, to say the least.

keylime_5
11-15-2012, 10:26 AM
He's been one of the best if not the best rookie WR this year. No doubting his talent, he's gonna be a legit high end #2 if not #1 receiver in the league it looks like. Him getting "lost in the shuffle" the last few weeks I don't think is accurate....He had a touchdown called back on a penalty against the Ravens (where Weeden looked really bad) and the Browns had a bye week this past week.

Brown Leader
11-16-2012, 09:15 AM
Keep him. Regardless of how good he'll ultimately be he'll probably lead the team in TD catches again.

cmarq83
11-16-2012, 09:50 AM
Thanks Guys

BuckeyeDan17
12-03-2012, 03:40 PM
Ummm. Thoughts on Mike Lombardi as GM? :(

Brown Leader
12-05-2012, 03:54 PM
Ummm. Thoughts on Mike Lombardi as GM? :(

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8wita5-06p4/UEupXxnBOSI/AAAAAAAACsc/NIbKX3kjDUk/s1600/Jake-Gyllenhaal-shaking-head.gif

BuckeyeDan17
12-06-2012, 01:24 PM
I didn't think of him as a candidate myself, there were rumors he was the favorite to replace Heckert (WHO SHOULDN'T BE ******* REPLACED ANYWAY) and I cringed and cried.

keylime_5
12-10-2012, 12:07 PM
I don't see how they can justify firing Heckert after what this team is doing right now with Gordon, Little, Weeden, Richardson, Schwartz, Cameron, Benjamin, Taylor, Sheard, Jackson, Haden, Ward, Robertson, Winn, Hughes, etc. and all his draft pick/free agent signings that are working out and growing up into a pretty decently talented young team. This is by far the best core of talent that we've had since the Browns returned. I wanna see what he does in future drafts, not some bum like Lombardi who's been out of the league for YEARS. Heck, I don't see how Shurmur can get fired either if they keep up the winning. Beating Washington next week I think will be HUGE for Shurmur's future with this team.

PoopSandwich
12-11-2012, 12:14 AM
If the Browns end up 7-9 I don't see how Shurmur gets fired even though I hate him as a coach.

As for Heckert, firing him would be an awful awful mistake.

BuckeyeDan17
12-19-2012, 11:03 AM
Whelp. The writing is on the wall for Heckert and Shurmur. Joe Banner said he would move swiftly on them after the season. Pretty sure you don't move swiftly to retain someone. Moreover, he would not comment on if he was hiring Lombardi. WTF?

Definitely not looking forward to this offseason. Bad feeling, I haz.

Brown Leader
12-19-2012, 04:46 PM
Latest rumors I've heard are Josh McDaniels & Ryan Mallett. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2012/12/will_mcdaniels.html

Here's Lombardi breaking down the Browns vs Redskins, link (http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fcbscleveland.files.wordp ress.com%2F2012%2F12%2Fmichael-lomabrdi-12-18.mp3&podcast_name=Michael+Lombardi&podcast_artist=Baskin+%26amp%3B+Phelps&station_id=113&audio_link=true&config_file=config.xml&dcid=CBS.CLEVELAND).

Problem I have with Lombardi (other then his track record) based on his takes on NFLN, is that he's overconfident with his analysis. It's like he won't even consider another take on certain prospects or differing break downs.

I'm not even that against McDaniels if it's strictly as coach without final say on personnel. And bringing in Mallet to compete is intriguing. I don't hate it.

BuckeyeDan17
12-19-2012, 05:32 PM
The same Mike Lombardi that thought Haden was too slow :(

Cudders
12-30-2012, 04:51 AM
Well, the national outlets are attaching their names to the rumors now. Sources reporting that both Shurmur and Heckert are aware of their imminent dismissals. Ugh.

Iím fine with Haslam firing Shurmur. Itís a result-oriented business. Shurmur hasnít delivered consistent results and hasnít proven to be an inspired choice. But Heckert? That stings some. Because Heckert has delivered results since joining the team as general manager. Iíve said it before. When Holmgren hired Heckert to be his personnel point man, the Browns were a strong contender for being the least talented team in the NFL. Heckert turned that roster over, broadened the talent base, and laid a promising foundation in a short period of time. For the first time in a long time, the Browns have an impressionable roster with a lot of contributors that havenít even hit their second contract. Itís unfortunate Heckert wonít get the chance to continue that pipeline.

As for the other rumors, I donít think it matters much. Joe Banner is the franchiseís decision-maker now. Thatís decided. The writing has been on the wall since Haslam took over. Banner replaced Holmgren and wasnít going to work with a general manager that was part of a faction that tried to oust him in a power struggle in Philadelphia. In that vein, Michael Lombardi is a sensible candidate. Brings a credible name to sell to the fan base as a former executive. But hasnít accrued enough clout around the league to survive at a high-level position past Cleveland. In terms of organizational politics, itís a win-win for Banner. He grabs the reins, solidifies his spot within the structure, and minimizes his exposure to another power struggle. Smart move on his part.

Iím cautious about what comes next for Cleveland. Banner is a shrewd operator with abrasive potential. Being shrewd is a tremendous trait as a capologist. But weíre not limiting the scope of his duties to financial stewardship. Heís going to be the lead negotiator and ultimate decision-maker. Being abrasive can push contested discussions past the point of contentiousness. Agents (and their clients) talk. Words spread in NFL circles. And, while he was part of a brain trust that stabilized the Eagles as consistent contenders, his evaluation skills are untested as the final evaluator. In Philadelphia, Heckert and Reid supported him. Two accomplished, skilled evaluators in their own right.

I didnít think McDaniels would get another shot so soon, but if heís brought aboard, I hope thereís enough sense to keep his meddling out of the personnel department. Itís rare to see someone gut their team to the degree that he did. And, Iím not an NFL owner, but at least exploring a triumvirate of Reid-Heckert-??? seems better than a first-choice of McDaniels-Lombardi-Banner.

BuckeyeDan17
12-30-2012, 04:47 PM
Word is the FO wants a "fresh face" for the coaching position a la Chip Kelly. If that's the desired way to go about things I would love to see David Shaw on our sidelines. But with how he just got a new extension and has solid job security for at least the immediate future now I would say that is essentially dissolved as a possibility.

I'm not a Lombardi fan at all and that's being polite; however I'm unsure of how things went in Oakland. Al may have just used him as a puppet (whatever that means) and his influence may have been minimal. I'm rather nervous with this coming offseason.

No choice but to wait and see.

Iamcanadian
12-31-2012, 12:01 AM
No doubt they will clean house and fire Shurmur and Heckert. Please, don't let it be Lombardi, he was nothing but a 'yes' man for Al Davis and never was responsible for a draft.
I'm also not crazy about hiring a college HC, 95% of them have been complete flops.

Cudders
12-31-2012, 07:21 AM
Lombardiís passiveness is the reason heís a leading candidate. I donít think it matters that much. The next general manager is going to be a glorified personnel director. Banner is going to be the shot-caller. If Banner hires Lombardi, he will sell it as a noticeable name coming back to Cleveland to finish what he started with Belichick or something along those sentimental lines. All while consolidating his control.

As for coaches, I donít mind going the college route. Their success is predicated on their pro preparedness. For me, five coaches have piqued NFL interest. Nick Saban at Alabama, Bill OíBrien at Penn State, David Shaw at Stanford, Chip Kelly at Oregon, and Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern. Saban is a disciplinarian that develops talent and demands detail awareness. Young squad could benefit from those methods. OíBrien was handed an impossible job and made the most of it. Penn State improved throughout the season and being part of New England doesnít hurt him either. Shaw has NFL roots and established success of his own at Stanford, but I donít believe heís looking to make the jump to the next level right now. Chip is regarded as an offensive mad scientist and fits the reported profile of what our decision-makers are looking for. Heís a huge blip on a lot of radars right now though. What separates Cleveland? What makes it more attractive? Fitzgerald is energetic and a worthwhile interview, but I would pass for a more polished candidate in all likelihood. Unless the philosophies were just identical matches.

As for needs, first and foremost, the new staff is going to have to answer the ongoing quarterback dilemma. Weeden wasnít good enough to guarantee his second season. A new coach might want his own quarterback. That puts Wilson, Smith, and whoever rises as real possibilities for the sixth overall pick. I havenít watched too much of the bunch, but right now, I think Iím more inclined to grab a pass-rusher or cornerback at that spot. From what Iíve seen, I like the front seven depth of this class quite a bit. In the mid-rounds, I would love a mauling, road-grading guard. I think itís a critical need. Weíve got a workhorse runner with high-end potential. It would be wise to put some real pushers in front of him. Shield blockers just ainít cutting it. So make a strength even stronger. Perhaps grab another developmental tight end, too.

In regards to free agents, there are options available at two positions with potential to address holes. Receivers and free safeties. Both Bowe and Jennings would complement our current crop of receivers. Bowe would add another big target and perimeter blocker. Jennings would add savviness we donít have within the group. In terms of safeties, I would love Byrd, Goldson, or Phillips. Out of the bunch, I think Phillips is the likeliest. If I recall, the Giants arenít working with much too cap space. A sizeable offer could squeeze New York into abandoning their pursuit. Itís a risk given his medical concerns, but itís a calculated one. This defense needs a centerfielder with range. Might even explore Andre Smithís value and kick him inside to guard.

(Note: I donít expect to sign two or three of the names listed. Cleveland would have to hand out larger contracts to secure their services and Banner favors a cost-effective approach. But I hope the Browns are at least listening to the bidding in the beginning. This team was competitive within the division this season. There are still holes to be filled, and a premier pick is being forfeited, but there are opportunities for improvement out there.)

Iamcanadian
12-31-2012, 12:48 PM
Lombardiís passiveness is the reason heís a leading candidate. I donít think it matters that much. The next general manager is going to be a glorified personnel director. Banner is going to be the shot-caller. If Banner hires Lombardi, he will sell it as a noticeable name coming back to Cleveland to finish what he started with Belichick or something along those sentimental lines. All while consolidating his control.

We need a solid personnel guy, period and Lombardi just isn't it. We don't need fluff at this stage, we need a solid FO guy who knows talent or we are looking at another decade of doing nothing.

As for coaches, I donít mind going the college route. Their success is predicated on their pro preparedness. For me, five coaches have piqued NFL interest. Nick Saban at Alabama, Bill OíBrien at Penn State, David Shaw at Stanford, Chip Kelly at Oregon, and Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern. Saban is a disciplinarian that develops talent and demands detail awareness. Young squad could benefit from those methods. OíBrien was handed an impossible job and made the most of it. Penn State improved throughout the season and being part of New England doesnít hurt him either. Shaw has NFL roots and established success of his own at Stanford, but I donít believe heís looking to make the jump to the next level right now. Chip is regarded as an offensive mad scientist and fits the reported profile of what our decision-makers are looking for. Heís a huge blip on a lot of radars right now though. What separates Cleveland? What makes it more attractive? Fitzgerald is energetic and a worthwhile interview, but I would pass for a more polished candidate in all likelihood. Unless the philosophies were just identical matches.

We tried a college HC in the past which was a disaster, so did Washington, Miami, Atlanta, and Oakland. They were all total flops. Winning in college doesn't mean squat at the next level.
O'Brien is a possibility but you have to wonder how much the scandal at Penn St. actually motivated his team just like Pagano's illness motivated the Colts. I wouldn't touch O'Brien until he puts a solid 2nd season on the board. Being from New England has been a disaster for the teams that took BB's coordinators.

As for needs, first and foremost, the new staff is going to have to answer the ongoing quarterback dilemma. Weeden wasnít good enough to guarantee his second season. A new coach might want his own quarterback. That puts Wilson, Smith, and whoever rises as real possibilities for the sixth overall pick. I havenít watched too much of the bunch, but right now, I think Iím more inclined to grab a pass-rusher or cornerback at that spot. From what Iíve seen, I like the front seven depth of this class quite a bit. In the mid-rounds, I would love a mauling, road-grading guard. I think itís a critical need. Weíve got a workhorse runner with high-end potential. It would be wise to put some real pushers in front of him. Shield blockers just ainít cutting it. So make a strength even stronger. Perhaps grab another developmental tight end, too.

We are stuck with Weedon and I think he will be OK for another 3 or 4 seasons till age drops him out of sight. WE aren't going to draft another QB with out #1 pick this year. Through poor management, we lost out on RG111 and we will regret it for another decade.

In regards to free agents, there are options available at two positions with potential to address holes. Receivers and free safeties. Both Bowe and Jennings would complement our current crop of receivers. Bowe would add another big target and perimeter blocker. Jennings would add savviness we donít have within the group. In terms of safeties, I would love Byrd, Goldson, or Phillips. Out of the bunch, I think Phillips is the likeliest. If I recall, the Giants arenít working with much too cap space. A sizeable offer could squeeze New York into abandoning their pursuit. Itís a risk given his medical concerns, but itís a calculated one. This defense needs a centerfielder with range. Might even explore Andre Smithís value and kick him inside to guard.

(Note: I donít expect to sign two or three of the names listed. Cleveland would have to hand out larger contracts to secure their services and Banner favors a cost-effective approach. But I hope the Browns are at least listening to the bidding in the beginning. This team was competitive within the division this season. There are still holes to be filled, and a premier pick is being forfeited, but there are opportunities for improvement out there.)

Our fate lies in Weedon and how much he improves in a year or 2, but his career will be very short at best. As for Banner, he will be under immense pressure to win now and he will be active in FA. I cannot see our fan base accepting mediocrity for another season for a cost effective approach.

BuckeyeDan17
12-31-2012, 01:33 PM
Cudders you're a Browns fan??

I read that it will be difficult for us to land a household personnel person since it wouldn't be regarded as anything more than a lateral move. Caldwell from ATL would have been nice. Moreover, I also read in a tweet that it is likely our HC selects the GM. Not sure how I feel about that after experiencing the Mangini era.

Edit: just read we have 4 candidates: 2 college, 2 pro. One of the pro prospects being Aaron Kromer.

Cudders
01-01-2013, 07:54 AM
We need a solid personnel guy, period and Lombardi just isn't it. We don't need fluff at this stage, we need a solid FO guy who knows talent or we are looking at another decade of doing nothing.

Youíre not going to find a coveted, talented personnel person thatís willing to cede roster control to a team president. Itís just not going to happen. I donít love the direction, but it is what it is. When Haslam hired Banner, our ultimate decision-maker was decided for us. We had a solid general manager. We fired him. Banner is replacing all of his rivals.

We tried a college HC in the past which was a disaster, so did Washington, Miami, Atlanta, and Oakland. They were all total flops. Winning in college doesn't mean squat at the next level.

Butch Davis might be one of the best football coaches weíve had since the return, too. He was downright awful in terms of personnel, but he squeezed some wins out of those underwhelming teams.

And not all college coaches are just cookie-cutters of the same coach. Steve Spurrier never devoted much attention to his protections. Nick Saban wouldnít make the same mistake. Heís detail-oriented. Plus, Iím not prepared to chalk Sabanís tenure in the NFL as an abject failure. He wanted Drew Brees. The team doctors and medical staff vetoed him. His NFL narrative could be quite different if that decision were reversed.

How is Jim Harbaugh doing? Pete Carroll? Greg Schiano? Itís the person and not their previous position.

O'Brien is a possibility but you have to wonder how much the scandal at Penn St. actually motivated his team just like Pagano's illness motivated the Colts. I wouldn't touch O'Brien until he puts a solid 2nd season on the board. Being from New England has been a disaster for the teams that took BB's coordinators.

I donít think the scandal helped Matt McGloin become a much better, more efficient quarterback. I think Bill OíBrienís tutelage had something to do with that. Penn State started the season 0-2. Rather than break under the weight of the circumstances, OíBrien rallied them and guided them to a respectable record. He did a masterful job coaching that team.

We are stuck with Weedon and I think he will be OK for another 3 or 4 seasons till age drops him out of sight. WE aren't going to draft another QB with out #1 pick this year. Through poor management, we lost out on RG111 and we will regret it for another decade.

We arenít stuck with Weeden. With the new rookie wage scale, Weedenís cap hold isnít huge. Compared to most quarterbacks, we donít have much invested in him. Would we take a big loss on the value of our asset? Sure would. But if the new coach (or owner) wants a new quarterback, Weedenís position within the team is jeopardized.


Our fate lies in Weedon and how much he improves in a year or 2, but his career will be very short at best. As for Banner, he will be under immense pressure to win now and he will be active in FA. I cannot see our fan base accepting mediocrity for another season for a cost effective approach.

If retained, Weedenís development is critical to Clevelandís campaign. Thatís one of the reasons that Bill OíBrien appeals to me. Going into his sophomore season, Weeden needs to get acclimated with another offensive scheme. As a former quarterback coach, I believe that OíBrien would take some steps to smooth that transition. Weeden doesnít have seasons to waste. The flashes were nice, but he needs to become a consistent quarterback now.

As for the second point, Iím still not sold that we will be big-time spenders in the free agent market. In Philadelphia, Banner was stringent with re-signing homegrown products. Granted, he was still part of the organization when the Eagles splashed a ton of cash in 2011, but I donít know if thatís a good thing. The results of that experiment were disastrous and might just reinforce previous philosophies.

Could Haslam hand Banner a mandate? Sure, itís possible. He doesnít have an established track record of a particular method. For now, Iím just not sold that weíre dedicated to targeting high-profile free agents and meeting the price tags that come with it.

Cudders you're a Browns fan??

I read that it will be difficult for us to land a household personnel person since it wouldn't be regarded as anything more than a lateral move. Caldwell from ATL would have been nice. Moreover, I also read in a tweet that it is likely our HC selects the GM. Not sure how I feel about that after experiencing the Mangini era.

Edit: just read we have 4 candidates: 2 college, 2 pro. One of the pro prospects being Aaron Kromer.

I sure am.

Since we arenít going to attract the best available candidates, I donít mind waiting for the head coachís input in the general manager selection, I guess. Hope to be unified in vision at least. Form one of the most cohesive batteries in the NFL.

And, given what we know now, that would mean Marrone and OíBrien from the college ranks? Horton and Kromer from the pros? I think Iím an OíBrien lean.

BuckeyeDan17
01-01-2013, 12:02 PM
Maronne is interviewing this week, it's reported we have interest in O'Brien. I also saw a report Kelly is our #1 target.

I'm okay with all of those candidates. I have read in other forums that there are people are concerned about his system translating. I don't think he would be trying to implement his exact system in Cleveland, but create something that suites the pieces we have and exploit the potential mismatcbes they cause.

My concern about Kelly is that Oregon hasn't fielded particularly impressive defenses kn his tenure, if we hire a good coordinator I wouldn't be that concerned since he would spend more time with the offense anyway.

I was really hoping we would at least express interest in Shaw. *shrugs*

Iamcanadian
01-01-2013, 02:21 PM
[QUOTE=Cudders;3229015]





And not all college coaches are just cookie-cutters of the same coach. Steve Spurrier never devoted much attention to his protections. Nick Saban wouldnít make the same mistake. Heís detail-oriented. Plus, Iím not prepared to chalk Sabanís tenure in the NFL as an abject failure. He wanted Drew Brees. The team doctors and medical staff vetoed him. His NFL narrative could be quite different if that decision were reversed.

How is Jim Harbaugh doing? Pete Carroll? Greg Schiano? Itís the person and not their previous position.

Come on, Pete Carroll was previously, a HC in the NFL with the Jets and the jury is still out on Schiano. One thing these 3 guys had was extensive tenure in the NFL.
O'Brien had one good season at Penn St. with a lot of emotional impetus behind him. I'd still like to see another successful season out of him before putting our future all on him.

Cudders
01-02-2013, 02:30 PM
Maronne is interviewing this week, it's reported we have interest in O'Brien. I also saw a report Kelly is our #1 target.

I'm okay with all of those candidates. I have read in other forums that there are people are concerned about his system translating. I don't think he would be trying to implement his exact system in Cleveland, but create something that suites the pieces we have and exploit the potential mismatcbes they cause.

My concern about Kelly is that Oregon hasn't fielded particularly impressive defenses kn his tenure, if we hire a good coordinator I wouldn't be that concerned since he would spend more time with the offense anyway.

I was really hoping we would at least express interest in Shaw. *shrugs*

Iím quite curious about Chip. From what Iíve heard, heís a certifiable offensive genius. And I do believe that a no-huddle, up-tempo ďbaseĒ is the future of the NFL. The next popular wrinkle that each team tries to run. I wouldnít mind getting one of the conceptís masterminds to implement it here. For me, itís not just about the maximum speed of their offense. Itís about the flexible speed of their offense. In its highest gear, itís a total blur. But I love that heís willing to downshift some and even pump the brakes from time to time. That takes defensive disruption to the next level.

If heís as smart as reported, heís not going to bring a replica of his college offense and install it in the NFL. He will adapt and evolve. In college, his advantage lies in assembling a supreme package of speed and overwhelming opponents with it. Including the quarterback position. I think he realizes that the team speed differential in the NFL is much narrower. Plus, if he comes to Cleveland with an identical scheme, he doesnít have a mobile quarterback to run all of the zone read concepts heís shown. In order to run an exact model of that offense, we would need to sign Michael Vick AND invest a third- or fourth-rounder in a backup. Could trade Weeden or a draft pick for a more mobile option, too. But, again, I donít think heís rigid in regards to scheme. I think heís capable of bending to fit his personnel and building a new persona. Thatís something that needs to be uncovered in the interviews though.

If heís the eventual choice, I couldnít agree more about handcuffing him to a defensive coordinator with a strong pedigree. Overall, I just donít know what our shots at landing him are. Most teams want to fill their vacancies with a bright offensive mind. Heís being billed as the next offensive wizard. Heís going to have his choice of jobs. In that case, Haslamís pockets would have to be the decider.

In the event that a defensive coach is chosen, I would want to link them with a reputable offensive coordinator, too. Norv Turner isnít the sexiest name after disastrous stints as a head coach, but for me, heís the first-choice candidate in that case. As long as that head coach was willing to work with him, Iíd let Turner name his price. Heís proven and reliable. He might not be as creative or inventive, but straightforward football isnít broken. Turner knows offense and weíve got suitable pieces.

Come on, Pete Carroll was previously, a HC in the NFL with the Jets and the jury is still out on Schiano. One thing these 3 guys had was extensive tenure in the NFL. O'Brien had one good season at Penn St. with a lot of emotional impetus behind him. I'd still like to see another successful season out of him before putting our future all on him.

But heís still a ďcollegeĒ coach thatís having success in Seattle. Harbaugh is a resounding success in San Francisco. College coaches know football, too. Davis failed in Cleveland because he was a downright dreadful personnel man. Spurrier failed in Washington because he was arrogant. Petrino failed in Atlanta because he was a quitter that preferred the college game. Coming from college doesnít define coaches. Now, hiring a college coach requires more diligence in the interview process, but I wouldnít dismiss collegiate candidates altogether. Thereís talented coaches in Division I.

Doug Marrone was an NFL assistant for seven seasons with the Jets and Saints. Bill OíBrien was an NFL assistant for five seasons with the Patriots. These arenít NFL newbies. I donít know if Marrone or OíBrien are destined for NFL greatness or not. But I know that coming from college wonít be the chief cause of whatever shortcomings that are present.

Brown Leader
01-02-2013, 08:36 PM
Greg A. Bedard (http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/10/08/patriots-huddle-relies-power-one/nHTapuVnBOwfFlffwTrN6J/story.html) - Simplified play calls are all the rage on the college level, where OíBrien has transferred the Patriotsí package ó dubbed ďNASCARĒ at Penn State ó to the Nittany Lions, who ran 39 plays in just more than a quarter to erase a 28-17 deficit to defeat Northwestern, 39-28, Saturday.

That previously mentioned lengthy West Coast play call? Itís the same one ESPN analyst Jon Gruden threw at former Auburn quarterback Cam Newton on his QB Camp television special.

Newton was at a loss to equate an Auburn play to an NFL play. Newton was ridiculed nationally because critics thought it showed that Newton couldnít handle a pro offense.

But what people didnít realize at the time was Newtonís subsequent answer, when Gruden talked about Auburn using the no-huddle a lot, was actually more telling.

ďOur method is Ďsimplistic equals fast,Ē Newton said. ďItís so simple as far as, you look to the sideline [and] you see Ď36í on the board. And thatís a play. And weíre off.Ē

What people didnít get, because the NFL is slow to evolve, is that Newton was actually showing them a glimpse of the future.

The NFL is a copycat league, so only when someone with job security ó like Belichick ó tries something new and it works does it spread across the professional ranks.

Belichick has learned that if itís going on in college, then itís coming to the NFL. Thatís the talent pool, and you should accentuate the strengths and minimize the weaknesses of that talent.

Thanks to guys like Chip Kelly, college players entering the NFL are playing offensive football faster than ever. So that means more teams are going to go faster and faster on offense.

The Patriots are already there, as everyone saw against the Broncos, thanks to one word.


This is really interesting. And I'd say the recent Banner signing of back-up Josh Johnson, a Kelly style QB, is an indication this is the philosophy he's aiming for.

Iamcanadian
01-03-2013, 11:17 AM
Iím quite curious about Chip. From what Iíve heard, heís a certifiable offensive genius. And I do believe that a no-huddle, up-tempo ďbaseĒ is the future of the NFL. The next popular wrinkle that each team tries to run. I wouldnít mind getting one of the conceptís masterminds to implement it here. For me, itís not just about the maximum speed of their offense. Itís about the flexible speed of their offense. In its highest gear, itís a total blur. But I love that heís willing to downshift some and even pump the brakes from time to time. That takes defensive disruption to the next level.

If heís as smart as reported, heís not going to bring a replica of his college offense and install it in the NFL. He will adapt and evolve. In college, his advantage lies in assembling a supreme package of speed and overwhelming opponents with it. Including the quarterback position. I think he realizes that the team speed differential in the NFL is much narrower. Plus, if he comes to Cleveland with an identical scheme, he doesnít have a mobile quarterback to run all of the zone read concepts heís shown. In order to run an exact model of that offense, we would need to sign Michael Vick AND invest a third- or fourth-rounder in a backup. Could trade Weeden or a draft pick for a more mobile option, too. But, again, I donít think heís rigid in regards to scheme. I think heís capable of bending to fit his personnel and building a new persona. Thatís something that needs to be uncovered in the interviews though.

If heís the eventual choice, I couldnít agree more about handcuffing him to a defensive coordinator with a strong pedigree. Overall, I just donít know what our shots at landing him are. Most teams want to fill their vacancies with a bright offensive mind. Heís being billed as the next offensive wizard. Heís going to have his choice of jobs. In that case, Haslamís pockets would have to be the decider.

In the event that a defensive coach is chosen, I would want to link them with a reputable offensive coordinator, too. Norv Turner isnít the sexiest name after disastrous stints as a head coach, but for me, heís the first-choice candidate in that case. As long as that head coach was willing to work with him, Iíd let Turner name his price. Heís proven and reliable. He might not be as creative or inventive, but straightforward football isnít broken. Turner knows offense and weíve got suitable pieces.



But heís still a ďcollegeĒ coach thatís having success in Seattle. Harbaugh is a resounding success in San Francisco. College coaches know football, too. Davis failed in Cleveland because he was a downright dreadful personnel man. Spurrier failed in Washington because he was arrogant. Petrino failed in Atlanta because he was a quitter that preferred the college game. Coming from college doesnít define coaches. Now, hiring a college coach requires more diligence in the interview process, but I wouldnít dismiss collegiate candidates altogether. Thereís talented coaches in Division I.

Doug Marrone was an NFL assistant for seven seasons with the Jets and Saints. Bill OíBrien was an NFL assistant for five seasons with the Patriots. These arenít NFL newbies. I donít know if Marrone or OíBrien are destined for NFL greatness or not. But I know that coming from college wonít be the chief cause of whatever shortcomings that are present.

I don't like the success ratio of college HC's who try pro football but I would accept a college HC if he had an extensive pro resume like Carroll, Harbough and say O'Brien or Marrone, but I shudder to think about hiring a college HC with no NFL experience.

If Weedon can show a strong improvement next season, the Brown's might actually be competitive but we need to find a true #1 receiver for him and we need to find a solid HC, both carry no guarantees but let's hope for the best.

BuckeyeDan17
01-03-2013, 12:53 PM
Hoping for immense improvement from Weeden is an unfavorable roll of the dice. I wouldn't complain riding with him for one more year but I really doubt whatever coach we hire is going to think "hey! Now this is a guy I could transform and work with!"

Iamcanadian
01-05-2013, 10:53 AM
Hoping for immense improvement from Weeden is an unfavorable roll of the dice. I wouldn't complain riding with him for one more year but I really doubt whatever coach we hire is going to think "hey! Now this is a guy I could transform and work with!"

IMO, only if Weedon shows no improvement in his second season would we even consider drafting another 1st round QB. It just isn't going to happen if Weedon improves.

As for allowing our HC to choose our GM, it makes me sick. Unless we hire Reid or Lovie Smith, there is no way a young HC should be allowed any say in the GM position. This would be a receipe for disaster.
If we are looking for a young HC, then hire the GM first and allow him to pick the HC, that is how successful teams are built.

Cudders
01-05-2013, 01:29 PM
If Weeden doesnít make significant strides, heís toast. This is a new organization. An organization that isnít anchored to Weeden. If heís still struggling next season, thereís not much reason to keep him. Quarterback or not, heís overage. You donít acquire short-term assets with the intention of waiting for them to mature. Youíre hoping to acquire the finished product. If Weeden still needs serious development, thereís no sense in sinking more time into his career.

Our general manager search is unique. I donít see it as the HC choosing the GM. I see it as the team president handpicking both. Again, the next Browns general manager wonít have sweeping power. He will get the title, but he wonít get the responsibilities. I think he will be closer to a director of personnel than a traditional general manager. At that point, I just care about his in-house communication and talent evaluation abilities. He needs to understand the vision being communicated to him, communicate that vision to his scouting staff, maintain open communication with his coach, and bring identified fits into the fold. It seems Banner is going to assume the role of cap caretaker and lead negotiator in contractual matters, so we donít need the savviest boardroom presence. Just a football man.

If Chip comes to Cleveland as reported, he needs to be surrounded with NFL insiders. His knowledge of the leagueís personnel and tendencies is going to be lacking. In that regard, I hope heís not married to all of his assistants from Oregon. Dealing with concurrent learning curves isnít ideal. Some NFL lifers to serve as stabilizers would be sweet. An experienced defensive coordinator and offensive assistant/assistant head coach would be perfect.

BuckeyeDan17
01-05-2013, 02:46 PM
Well, the browns have asked for permission to interview Tom Gamble from San Fran and Farmer from KC for GM.

Some people close to the Kelly situation believe he will ask Jauron to stay. Further, he will bring very little, if any Oregon assistants with him - as reported.

Cudders
01-12-2013, 08:06 AM
Just some random thoughts about the Browns to spark some discussion:

1.) Iím a huge fan of the Chudzinski hire. I think heís one of the best offensive minds in the game in his age bracket. Sure, there are little things that I question, but I donít have all of the information. A lot of Carolina fans have opined that Chud had an obsessive reliance on their zone-read concepts. I didnít watch enough of the Panthers to draw a concrete conclusion. Is Cam just struggling with the transition to traditional passing concepts? Is the offensive line just ill-suited to the power running game that fans called for? All of these variables factor into game-calling.

I think the regression angle is being exaggerated. Clevelandís offensive drop was sharp. A lot of things came together and contributed to their precipitous decline though. Things outside of Chudís control. Carolina dipped some this season, but I wouldnít characterize it as a severe regression either. It dropped from 389.8 YPG and 25.4 PPG to 360.1 YPG and 22.3 PPG. Again, donít like to see it, but itís not falling off a cliff. Plus, down the stretch of their season, the Panthers averaged 386.3 YPG and 28.3 PPG. Numbers considered normal in the context of their first campaign.

Regardless, that drop-off isnít pronounced enough to make me pause on Chud. Heís a bright, flexible offensive mind that articulated a meticulous plan to Haslam and Banner over two sit-downs. Sign me up.

2.) I love that heís bringing Norv Turner with him, too. It takes some self-awareness to do that. Right or wrong, a lot of fresh faces want to leave their indelible imprint on a new team. Often, that means retaining game-calling duties on their preferred side of the ball. But the non-football and overall responsibilities of a first-time head coach can be quite overwhelming. Norv is an elite offensive coordinator. Chud can focus on the bigger picture and have confidence in his coordinator to get the job done. His distinctive formation variation and intuitive game-calling puts personnel in perfect positions to succeed. Plus, his curse as a head coach is a blessing to the Browns. Heís not a head coaching candidate. That should mean a spell with a consistent coordinator and scheme.

3.) Speaking of offensive design, Chud and Norv are utilitarians, but their interest in tight ends seems to be a shared staple. In a game of variation, tight ends provide a ton of it. In general, it gives the offense the chance to create their numbers and isolate their mismatch. For that reason, I would love to see dedication toward two-tight end packages in Cleveland. Itís so diverse. You can overload strength. You can flex them out wide. You can get creative with motion. You can throw against bigger bases and fronts. You can run over smaller sub-packages. You can still meet strength with strength when needed. Tight ends are versatile weapons.

Right now, this group of tight ends is in a state of flux. Under Chud and Norv, Jordan Cameron intrigues me. His potential is obvious. He needs to realize it. I suspect heís going to be given a good shot in this offense. He can be more than just a red-zone gadget. Just needs to accept his coaching. Eifert out of Notre Dame interests me, too. From what Iíve seen, that kid has some special ball skills. When coupled with a 6-6 frame, heís got serious vertical potential. Chud said he wants to install a vertical offense. Eifert can attack seams downfield and win jump-ball battles. Now, Iím not interested in drafting him with the sixth overall pick. But if none of the available defensive talent interests us and we can find a trading partner in the mid-first range? Now Iím interested.

4.) As far as drafting on the offensive side of the ball goes, I donít think the option of selecting a quarterback is tabled either. The new brain trust is staking their long-term survival on offensive acumen. Brandon Weeden is an overage leftover with middling success in his first season. If a quarterback stands out during the pre-draft process, and the coaching staff loves his prospectus, it wouldnít surprise me in the slightest to see back-to-back quarterback picks. I havenít watched too much of Glennon, but heís a strong conceptual fit. And, from what I have seen, the recipient of a disproportionate amount of hate in relation to his deficiencies.

5.) The interior offensive line needs to be addressed. Weíve got some adequate shield blockers. We need devastating drive blockers. Our pair of tackles and pivot provides some pass protection coverage to guards. If we want to maximize Richardson, the two guardsí main attribute should be their initial punch and push. Iím not familiar with the depth of this guard class, but I know the Browns have almost $50 million in cap space and have to burn most of it to reach the floor. Andre Smith is a free agent. If I had confidence in the offensive line coach, I would test Cincinnatiís financial commitment with the intention of kicking him inside to guard. The Bengals have a lot of extensions that need to get done among their core and Smith could get lost in the shuffle. It doesnít hurt to explore the market or push their price higher if a deal canít be finalized.

And that wouldnít prevent me from taking another guard in the draft either.

6.) I think earmarking most of the cap for defensive purposes is smart. This defense is as close to complete as weíve seen in Cleveland. The tinkering will never stop, but this unit has building blocks at each level and some promising depth behind it. A couple free agent signings could elevate their ceiling and relieve some pressure on an acclimating offense. First and foremost, I think the Giants can be squeezed in their negotiations with Phillips. A centerfielder of his caliber would work wonders for the backend. Plus, New York is cap-starved. And then adding a stopgap at the cornerback spot opposite Haden. Figure out if the nickel or dime backs corners can be groomed into eventual successors.

After that, lock up homegrown products like Haden and Mack. Perhaps shop for some ďbargainĒ pass rushers. Reclamation projects, vets making their last stand, scheme miscasts, etc. Then flexible, short-term deals for bodies and depth until the cap hits the floor.

7.) I think the frontrunner for the sixth overall pick is a pass rusher. At this point, I hope the incoming defensive coordinator brings a scheme with an emphasis on mixed elements with them. Mixed between even front and odd front. Between one-gap and two-gap. The Browns have some pliant parts. Might as well bend and use them to their advantage.

In that vein, the cluster of Damontre Moore, Barkevious Mingo, and Jarvis Jones is what the scouting staff needs to separate. Iíve just seen Moore, Mingo, and Jones live. That kind of pass rusher is critical to a mixed schemeís success. Unless a quarterback just connects with the coaching staff or none of the aforementioned are available, I canít see another Cleveland choice. The value of a pass rusher is too high.

So, a tentative draft like the following would be fine with me. I donít know particular prospects well enough right now, but Iíll start watching some videos this week in all likelihood.

1.) DE/OLB
2.) Forfeited
3.) OG
4.) BPA
5.) BPA/Brad Wing
6.) BPA
7.) BPA

BuckeyeDan17
01-12-2013, 12:01 PM
I wasn't ecstatic about the Churl hire initially, yet I wasn't upset. Well, I guess I did have a kneejerk reaction and spouted "goddamnit" like a child. I will say the hiring of Norv makes me feel a lot better about it. I have read that many around the league feel Chud is one of the best "in-game" coaches in the game and if true I think that's magnificent because some of our blunders throughout the years have been poor adjustments offensively or no adjustments at all. I'm warming up to this quite about as the hours pass. Chud seems to exhibit leadership capabilities as well as being big on accountability. What else can we ask for out of a candidate at this point? Innovative? Check. Good with in-game adjustments? Check. Leadership, attention to detail and accountability? Potentially check.

One thing that I may disagree with Cudi is that I don't see our defense as complete as you do. While I agree a pass rushed is of extreme need, we are still missing potentially two inside backers, a #2 cover corner (skrine gets destroyed by bigger receivers, he is a nickel at best), a coverage free safety and perhaps a down end in the odd front. Moreover, it seems we may assuming Sheard has the lateral quick and mobility to operate in space; however, we may not need him to if we consistently have him rush out of a two-point stance like we were doing in the latter portion of the season. D'Q never really flourished in the 3-4 yet we didn't have the linesmen that we do now. I will say at the very least he deserves his shot.

I agree that both guard positions need to be addressed. I haven't seen an actual push in the interior run blocking - I think Richard could have an excellent season behind upgrades at the interior.

GM candidates: so, candidates are comprised of tom gamble, a seahawks FO member (forget the name but from my understanding he is more of a cap person), someone from Minnesota and ray farmer from Kansas city. Tom Gamble or Farmer would be fantastic acquisitions under our FO circumstances with the egomaniac Banner at the healm. Something should happen pretty soon though.

Cudders
01-14-2013, 07:38 AM
One thing that I may disagree with Cudi is that I don't see our defense as complete as you do. While I agree a pass rushed is of extreme need, we are still missing potentially two inside backers, a #2 cover corner (skrine gets destroyed by bigger receivers, he is a nickel at best), a coverage free safety and perhaps a down end in the odd front. Moreover, it seems we may assuming Sheard has the lateral quick and mobility to operate in space; however, we may not need him to if we consistently have him rush out of a two-point stance like we were doing in the latter portion of the season. D'Q never really flourished in the 3-4 yet we didn't have the linesmen that we do now. I will say at the very least he deserves his shot.

Nope, I donít disagree with the above. I donít think weíve got a complete or elite defense either. This is just the most optimistic Iíve ever felt about that side of the ball. Itís somewhat of a projection based on realistic off-season moves, but I believe itís as close as weíve come to completeness. Weíve got nice building blocks in-place at each level. Plus, between a cap windfall and a premium draft pick, weíre positioned to address those peskier problem areas, too.

I wouldnít be willing to invest too much in a free agent pass rusher. The acquisition cost of a top-tier one is absurd and I donít love the candidates enough. With the wealth of options at the top of the draft, I think thatís the wisest route. If the scouting staff does their due diligence, weíve got a long-term option at a cornerstone position at a discounted price for the duration of their rookie contract.

But I would love to splash some cash into the defense. I hope Phillips is a high-value target. The Giants are vulnerable to poaching and Phillips is one of the quietest impact safeties in the NFL. Heís even being overshadowed within this free agent class. Centerfielders with his range are difference-makers on the backend. Heís just a reliable eraser. His skill set complements Ward as well. Itís contingent on medical clearing his checkered past, but the potential fit is tantalizing.

Also, I do think we should be in the market for a stopgap corner. Thereís a glut of available options. From cheaper corners with some upside to veterans with some production left to be squeezed out of them. As an aside, Norv should have an accurate pulse of where Jammer is in his career and if he can still serve as a suitable stopgap or not.

Past that, I donít see another glaring hole. Now, part of that is subject to scheme change. If we slant more toward an odd front, and Tucker or another defensive coordinator wants more coverage range from his outside linebackers, a free agent specialist like Lawson is an option. But I donít even have a huge problem with Sheard in a 3-4. He can be rock-solid opposite a more impactful edge presence. You wonít confuse him with the most fluid linebackers, but he provides some pass rushing push and strength as a setter in the ground game. He just needs to develop a strong jam. Thatís his calling card in terms of coverage. Weíre never going to want him one-on-one with backs or tight ends. If he can prevent free releases, he will still give the back seven some additional cover.

Iím hoping the defense is mixed though. If we want to be identified as an attacking team as Chud indicated, Iíd love to see a 3-4 / 4-3 / 5-2 composite. Fronts that leave our rush linebackers in attacking two- or three-point stances and donít expose them to arduous coverage responsibilities. I think it suits our defensive line, too. Weíve got a handful of big bodies. We can be flexible depending on down, distance, offensive strength, and game situation. Move defensive linemen around, shade rushers inside, combine one-gap and two-gap concepts, etc. Weíll see. Interested to see the eventual hire.

Outside of Xís and Oís, I want the coaching staff to stress four metrics as benchmarks. One, turnover differential. We finished the season at +3. We were tied for 12th in the NFL. Nine out of twelve teams in the postseason were better than us. Two, offensive red zone touchdown percentage. We finished the season at 43.6%. We were 29th in the NFL. Twelve out of twelve teams in the postseason were better than us. Three, defensive red zone touchdown percentage. We finished the season at 56.6%. We were 24th in the NFL. Eight out of twelve teams in the postseason were better than us. Four, penalties. We finished the season at 1,005 yards lost. We were 2nd in the NFL. Eleven out of twelve teams in the postseason were better than us. Those are the problem situations. Now we need to coach to them.

Brown Leader
01-16-2013, 03:20 PM
I'm wondering what Chud will do with this offense. He's been a wizard at reclaiming league worst offenses with Cleveland and Carolina and now he's got the leagues youngest that admiringly ranked #25 last year.

I think there's a lot to work with here but it's hard to say the talent matches what he had with the Panthers. He had Carolina's offense ranked #12 featuring a couple of true gamechangers at QB and WR.

The best thing to consider is that Norv (if he's actually hired) and Chud should be able to maximize Weeden and Richardson's talent. But there's no way to tell what BW's ceiling actually is. I think the best thing they could do for this offense is sign a pro bowler caliber FA TE. The two that come to mind are Fred Davis and Martellus Bennett. But in the right system and with a change of scenery, I think Delanie Walker and Jermichael Finley might also be better.

I don't think you could entirely rule out a WR either. Russ Lande has Keenan Allen as his #5 overall prospect and Patterson is a rare athletic freak. I like Gordon but it's too early to say if he'll approach very good to elite WR status-which I think is needed for an offense like this. And Little is closer to an average WR. A great FA signing would be to acquire Danario Alexander. Given his injury history and having to learn a new offense the Chargers might not match an offer. This guy was playing like a legit #1 in Norv's offense with Rivers from the jump. A guy I've always liked but just can't stay healthy. He's worth the risk.

Defensively, good drafting has put in a nice position upfront. I kinda agree that the defense is only a few steps away from being able to compete with anyone, regardless of scheme. The potential high profile pass rush prospects are matching up perfectly with what we need too. I liked Sheard coming out and thought his best fit was as a 34 OLB. And I won't be surprised if L.J. Fort wins the starting ILB spot next to Jackson but Gocong played well there when healthy and as far as I know he'll be back. Robertson's probably not thrilled though.

In Fa there are a number of guys that, given our cap, we could go after that fit. #1 to me would be Steelers CB Keenan Lewis - pro bowl potential and hurts our div opponent. #2 might be Brent Grimes- adds another small CB but he can play. Anthony Spencer is another big money FA that's worth what we might pay him. His back up Vic Butler is also worth a look. At S, if we're actually spending money I think I'd prefer William Moore over Phillips.

In our DC search, I'd have no problem with Mel Tucker. That Jaguar defense has been more competitive then it should be the last couple seasons. He's versed in both schemes and even if the 34 is our base, I think he would use varied formations.

Iamcanadian
01-17-2013, 01:24 AM
Gee, wasn't it just a few years ago that you all hated Chud as our OC, now you cannot bring youselves to repeat it. Oh well, at least I love that Norv Turner will be our OC, great OC, rotten HC. Should really help Weedon a lot in his development.
Talking about FA's at this point is useless till we actually know who will be FA's. Most will simply resign or be franchised, then we can talk about real possibilities.

Brown Leader
01-17-2013, 10:26 AM
IAC stop pretending to be astute-as if you know what we all thought of Chud years ago. Most posters commenting now weren't even here then. You know what's more useless then commenting about potential March FAs in January on a football forum? ....telling people it's useless to comment about possible free agents in January.

Iamcanadian
01-17-2013, 01:58 PM
IAC stop pretending to be astute-as if you know what we all thought of Chud years ago. Most posters commenting now weren't even here then. You know what's more useless then commenting about potential March FAs in January on a football forum? ....telling people it's useless to comment about possible free agents in January.

Just like you should know, it is useless to project FA's at this stage, we don't even know who we will resign never mind what other teams will do.
So tell me, were you a Chud hater or not, start being direct instead of talking around the subject.
Ah, forget it, more fun talking about the Brown's than arguing with you over nothing.:wave:

CrossOfDeath
01-18-2013, 09:26 AM
Michael Lombardi is a worthless **** whos only quality is memorizing players combine numbers and stats. His dumbass couldn't tell a good player from and average player if he had a crystal ball. His past screw ups in this league have been historically bad. This idiot took a FB in the Top 10, a Center who was good but not great 11th overall and wouldn't let Belichek draft Warren Sapp. He also had a major hand in the Jamarcus Russell fiasco.

Haslam and Banner just ruinned the careers of a lot of good young Browns and Rob Chudzinski before it even got started.

BuckeyeDan17
01-18-2013, 12:43 PM
Wow. The **** Haslam

Bert Macklin
01-18-2013, 12:54 PM
Lombardi said Colston wasn't worth us resigning lol. Good luck fellas

CrossOfDeath
01-18-2013, 02:40 PM
Lombardi said Colston wasn't worth us resigning lol. Good luck fellas

That is not even the worst of it. He has drafted a FB in the top 10 a center that was only lastest 6 years in the NFL at 11th ovearll. He drafted a corner in round 1 that was cut the very next season and had a huge hand in Robert Gallery and Jamarus Russell picks. He was in a front office role from 1987-2007 and drafted exactly 1 pro bowl player. Hell his picks were not even average players they were mostly down right bad players. Most GMs get lucky and find a pro bowler with 6th or 7th roud picks. It takes luck just for him to find one in the 1st. Oh, and he said Weeden and Josh Gordon were wasted picks when they happend. Weeden played great for a rookie if he weren't in the same class as Luck, RG3 and Wilson. Josh Gordon played lights out for a kid out of football 2 years and would have been a Top 15 in this draft....we got him for a 2nd. This was a BS buddy buddy hire because he is ex buds with Banner. Also just another tool for Banner to bully around and control.

Iamcanadian
01-18-2013, 03:02 PM
Not a Lombardi lover at all but I'm sure he has his good points as well. Let's remember that Al Davis ran the draft in Oakland not Lombardi and BB ran the draft here. That said, I don't know what quality they hired him for because he never did much prospect analysis on the NFL Network, maybe he's a solid organizer of front offices, we can only hope.

CrossOfDeath
01-18-2013, 03:10 PM
Not a Lombardi lover at all but I'm sure he has his good points as well. Let's remember that Al Davis ran the draft in Oakland not Lombardi and BB ran the draft here. That said, I don't know what quality they hired him for because he never did much prospect analysis on the NFL Network, maybe he's a solid organizer of front offices, we can only hope.

Thats false. Lombardi had final say on the roster here and pulled ranked and didn't allow Belichek to take Warren Sapp. Instead they traded down and drafted a linebacker that was cut the following season. Lombardi does have good points such as memorization. He is great for info gathering and memorizing that info. He should be used as a tool only. Someone else had better be in charge of how to sort that information against film study to determine what talent to bring in.

CrossOfDeath
01-18-2013, 03:11 PM
And I said he had a huge hand in his days at Oakland. The guy had a mega raging boner for Robert Gallary. He also had a huge draft day boner for Ryan Mallett who obviously wasn't as good as he tought or he wouldn't have slid to the 3rd.

Lombardi is a worthless sack and Browns fans need to quit trying to sugar coat it.

cmarq83
01-18-2013, 03:29 PM
Lombardi is a worthless sack and Browns fans need to quit trying to sugar coat it.

Wow this CrossOfDeath guy really doesn't like Lombardi.

Cudders
01-18-2013, 10:25 PM
Weeden played great for a rookie if he weren't in the same class as Luck, RG3 and Wilson.

ÖWhat?

This was a BS buddy buddy hire because he is ex buds with Banner. Also just another tool for Banner to bully around and control.

We were never going to attract the best front office talent to Cleveland. It just wasnít going to happen. General managers want to be more than just directors of personnel. Itís the reason that Tom Heckert was fired. He refused to relinquish roster control. That was a statement from Banner to the rest of the NFL. He was cementing his position and consolidating control. The prospects of hiring an exciting candidate have been bleak since then. I donít like it, but it is what it is. Haslam is friends with Banner. Haslam finances the operation. Haslam hires whoever he wants. Unless Banner falls on his face, or their partnership strains, weíre just going to have to survive an overbearing CEO.

As for Lombardi, heís got an underwhelming track record. At this point, Iím hoping that Haslam and Banner evaluated Lombardi with a specialized criteria in mind. Right now, I value communication skills most in our new vice president of personnel. If Lombardi can conceptualize the vision thatís being communicated to him, communicate that vision to his support staff, maintain communication with Chud, surround himself with qualified talent evaluators, and keep an open mind in meetings, then the process can still work. It seems heís more of a medium to the visionaries. Not one of the visionaries himself.

On a bright side, the foundation of the coaching staff is impressive. Chud might be an unknown, but heís shown that heís capable of assembling a team of successful coaches around him. Thatís critical for a rookie head coach. Norv is an elite offensive coordinator. Horton is an exciting defensive coordinator thatís familiar with the AFC North. I love the direction on both sides of the ball.

Depending on the price, I wouldnít hate a rumored Mallett trade either. From what Chud said at his presser, we want to be an aggressive and vertical team. Those philosophies are perfect fits with Mallettís arm talent and skill set. And heís had some time to get acclimated to the rigors of the NFL, too. Lombardi is still a close friend of Belichickís. Iím thinking heís got some inside information on his development. Now, if the centerpiece of the deal is the sixth overall pick, Iím going to be quite disappointed that we move ourselves out of contention for one of these pass rushers, but Iím hesitant to believe his value has risen that much since 2011.

Blackluck
01-18-2013, 11:20 PM
Depending on the price, I wouldn’t hate a rumored Mallett trade either. From what Chud said at his presser, we want to be an aggressive and vertical team. Those philosophies are perfect fits with Mallett’s arm talent and skill set. And he’s had some time to get acclimated to the rigors of the NFL, too. Lombardi is still a close friend of Belichick’s. I’m thinking he’s got some inside information on his development. Now, if the centerpiece of the deal is the sixth overall pick, I’m going to be quite disappointed that we move ourselves out of contention for one of these pass rushers, but I’m hesitant to believe his value has risen that much since 2011.

Fwiw (i.e. not much) I've read on a different Patriot's board that Belichick is shopping Mallett for a 2nd round pick.

Iamcanadian
01-21-2013, 10:50 AM
And I said he had a huge hand in his days at Oakland. The guy had a mega raging boner for Robert Gallary. He also had a huge draft day boner for Ryan Mallett who obviously wasn't as good as he tought or he wouldn't have slid to the 3rd.

Lombardi is a worthless sack and Browns fans need to quit trying to sugar coat it.

I completely disagree about Lombardi's power in Oakland. Al Davis ran their draft and did whatever he pleased. Lombardi was just another yes guy in their organization.

I'm not at all crazy about the hire but let's be factual.

Brown Leader
01-21-2013, 03:35 PM
If Weeden doesn’t make significant strides, he’s toast.
I think he's already toast. Lombardi mentioned after the Browns-Redskins game that Weeden earned his league worst QBR and the next week's game vs the Broncos would be a huge test for him and the team. Well, we know how that turned out. My guess is he's already looking past him. I think the only thing that prevents a trade for Mallett would be the market for him, since there will be a few other teams interested in him if BB is seriously interested in trading.

Thats false. Lombardi had final say on the roster here and pulled ranked and didn't allow Belichek to take Warren Sapp. Instead they traded down and drafted a linebacker that was cut the following season.

Don't leave out the epilogue..."Lombardi later worked with the Raiders when Sapp was in Oakland and Sapp said Lombardi is still tormented by being fed wrong intel, thus passing on drafting Sapp in Cleveland."


As for Lombardi, he’s got an underwhelming track record. At this point, I’m hoping that Haslam and Banner evaluated Lombardi with a specialized criteria in mind. Right now, I value communication skills most in our new vice president of personnel. If Lombardi can conceptualize the vision that’s being communicated to him, communicate that vision to his support staff, maintain communication with Chud, surround himself with qualified talent evaluators, and keep an open mind in meetings, then the process can still work. It seems he’s more of a medium to the visionaries. Not one of the visionaries himself.


Agreed and perhaps. Banner cited the 98 draft as one of the better Eagles drafts during his time there. His work with Oakland has to be taken with an asterisk because of the size/speed demands of Davis. Key is, Lombardi claims to have grown from the past (http://www.theclevelandfan.com/images/stories/Lombardi.jpg). Evidence of that might be why he was so high on Mallett, while the general scouting community had him slipping with the character concerns.

Iamcanadian
01-26-2013, 12:19 PM
All this Oakland experience for Banner and Lombardi scares the pants off of me. Al Davis ran his team's drafts and accepted little impute from his management team. Davis surrounded himself with 'yes' men who followed his orders without question. Al Davis brooked no questioning of his ideas either from front office personnel or from his coaching staff.

Then there is Philadelphia where Reid had final say on every pick not the GM or player personnel people. He might have accepted imput but he made the selections.

That being said, we have to give our new owner a chance to prove himself worthy and accept decisions until they are proven right or wrong. We'll just have to wait to see the results.

Cudders
01-28-2013, 04:22 AM
Well, Chud reiterated to the media in Cleveland that itís going to be a mixed defense. Meanwhile, Horton told the media in Arizona that itís going to be a 3-4 that mirrors Pittsburghís. He also said during the radio interview that he wouldíve been able to add Norv Turner to his staff if he was promoted in Arizona. Did Chud hire Horton? Or did Banner and Haslam pull rank and hand Horton to Chud? And is Horton bitter that Chud got the Browns job over him? Itís clear there are some things that still need to be worked out. A star-studded coaching staff is useless if itís divided. The head coach sets the scheme. The coordinators work within that scheme. The position coaches teach to the responsibilities of that scheme. Thereís little room for a rogue attitude.

Now, at this point, it might be a misunderstanding. I donít know. Chud might be speaking in generalities about the gradual incorporation of even front concepts within an odd front. Which, given the homogenization of defense in the NFL, isnít inconceivable. Iíve seen Arizona run some even front. But Hortonís definition of a mixed defense might be a unit that lacks a ďbaseĒ front altogether. The origin of their differences doesnít matter. It just needs to be addressed and corrected as soon as possible. Regardless, this seems to be the first communication barrier that needs to be hurdled.

As far as personnel goes, I think our front seven fits the switch. Weíve got a lot of big bodies and bulk. Once OTAís and mini-camps and training camp start, we can move some pieces around and find their best fit. I think weíve got a flexible line. I could see multiple unit combinations. Our starting trench size is rare for a team transitioning to an odd front.

The biggest need is a rush linebacker. Given the makeup of this class, we need to capitalize and hit on a rusher with the sixth overall pick. Sheard could be a solid part of our edge force as long as he works on hand usage and re-routing techniques. But I donít see high upside there, so adding an explosive pass rusher with potential opposite him makes sense. Horton is a self-described aggressive coordinator. An edge presence would be put to good use.

Past that, I expect the Mallett rumors have serious merit. Lombardi loved the kid coming out of Arkansas and remains close friends with Belichick. Chud professed his desire to run a vertical offense in his initial presser. Mallettís arm talent fits those concepts and meets that vision. New England doesnít have a fourth, fifth, or sixth in the upcoming draft. The links between the Browns and Patriots make sense. New England gets the selections theyíre starving for and Cleveland gets their future quarterback. Iím guessing for a multi-pick package. A framework of something like a fourth- and sixth-rounder in 2013 and a second-rounder in 2014. Perhaps a non-pick piece, too. Or our third instead of the fourth.

That leaves a rough, rough draft along the lines of:

RD 1 (6) Ė Barkevious Mingo | OLB | LSU
I doubt Damontre Moore lasts to the sixth pick. Jarvis Jones has to clear his medical concerns and could be vulnerable to a slight slip. That leaves Mingo or Jordan. From what Iíve seen so far, I like Mingoís projectables more.

RD 3 (68) Ė Larry Warford | RG | Kentucky
Itís hard to get a read on these bigger guards. It wouldnít surprise me if Warford didnít last this long. But weíve seen the guard position get devalued and pushed down, too. I would love to grab a massive mauler like him right here. We need interior push.

RD 5 (132) Ė Michael Williams | TE | Alabama or Brad Wing | P | LSU
Itís important that a tight end gives their guard short corners to get around on wide runs. Williams is a powerful in-line blocker and profiles as a valuable part of the tight end rotation.

I wouldnít mind Wing either. Our punting situation hasnít been the greatest and Wing is a worthwhile prospect. I love a left-footed punter, too.

RD 7 (196) Ė Cornelius Washington | OLB | Georgia
Just a depth pick. He was an underachiever at Georgia, but Iíve heard intriguing things about his athleticism. Stash him and perhaps develop him as part of a pass rusher stable.

I wouldnít mind closing with a class like that. Given the shortage of selections, free agents would need to step into starter or stopgap roles. But we have the cap space to do it. A centerfielder is critical and I still think Phillips is the most realistic option on the market. Sign a man corner as a number two. Perhaps squeeze the Steelers on Keenan Lewis? Perhaps Greg Toler because heís familiar with Horton? Extend Haden and Mack. Re-sign Dawson, Watson, Brown, and perhaps Cribbs. Add a sub-package, coverage specialist at linebacker like Lawson if possible. And then fill out the rest of the roster with flexible, specialized short-term deals.

QB1: Mallett
QB2: Weeden or Colt
RB1: Richardson
RB2: Hardesty / ???
WR1: Gordon
WR2: Little
WR3: Benjamin / ???
TE1: Watson
TE2: Jordan
TE3: Williams
LT: Thomas
LG: Greco
C: Mack
RG: Warford
RT: Schwartz

DL: Taylor
DL: Rubin
DL: Winn
DL: Hughes
DL: Kitchen
DL: Rucker
OLB: Sheard / ???
ILB: JMJ / Lawson / Gocong
ILB: Jackson / Robertson
OLB: Mingo
CB1: Haden
CB2: Free Agent CB
NB: Brown / Skrine / ???
FS: Phillips
SS: Ward

K: Dawson
P: ???

Looking at the above roster, I think thatís a solid, competitive football team with room to grow. Now, itís as premature as it gets, and the additions are quite fluid, but it shows that potential exists for this team to be aggressive and target and attack its problem areas in an effort to improve.

Iamcanadian
01-28-2013, 12:18 PM
I hope we aren't giving up high picks for Mallett, he is totally immobile in the pocket and IMO, Weedon is still a viable starter till he proves otherwise. We just have too many holes to be giving up picks.
I like your draft a lot but after the Senior Bowl, Washington likely won't last till round 7.

kalbears13
01-29-2013, 01:37 AM
I hope we aren't giving up high picks for Mallett, he is totally immobile in the pocket and IMO, Weedon is still a viable starter till he proves otherwise. We just have too many holes to be giving up picks.
I like your draft a lot but after the Senior Bowl, Washington likely won't last till round 7.

I can't take anything you write seriously when you can't even spell Weeden right.

Iamcanadian
01-29-2013, 02:03 PM
I can't take anything you write seriously when you can't even spell Weeden right.

Spelling isn't my strong point to say the least but what has that got to do with content.

Brown Leader
01-31-2013, 10:55 AM
Breakdown of the defense Horton inherits.

Front 7
We've got an interesting situation upfront. Rucker is the teams' best run defender-it's the primary reason we signed him. Winn might be the most athletic of the group and played the "5" at Boise. Rubin's strength is keeping himself free and getting to the ball-he does that better then any other interior player in the league. As a NT, he wasn't a Casey Hampton style who controls blockers and doesn't give up ground. Taylor's strength isn't controlling lineman either, it's using his size and athletic ability to disrupt. Both Rubin and Taylor move well for their size but not as well as Rucker and Winn. But, after watching how well Rubin and Taylor played together against the Redskins to shut down one of the leagues best running games, a case can be made for each to start.

4 starting caliber DE is a good problem-and two of them can slide over to the nose. Between our young DTs, I thought Hughes flashed the most impressive run defending ability. Judging by his college tape and how he played his first year, he's the best nose we have. Kitchen brings up the rear of this group, which is saying something. He looked decent for a practice squad type. If Winn can become a consistent inside rusher, this is a perfect group.

Linebackers
The LBs are not as lacking as has been made. By all accounts, Gocong is making a solid recovery and should be in the mix by training camp. Obviously, he and DQ know the 34. They're likely the favorites to start at LILB & RILB. JMJ, more familiar with the 34 then the 43 and L.J. Fort back them up. But the most intriguing guy is Robertson. He showed a lot of promise last season. Initially, he doesn't look like a good scheme fit but one of his strengths is attacking down hill-shooting gaps and blitzing, which is perfect for Horton's scheme. If he learns to play with ideal leverage and adds some strength, he's a surprise starter inside.

Sheard was viewed as a hybrid end coming out of Pitt. I think it was a slight surprise that a 43 defensive team drafted him-even more that he starts at LE. In the 34 at LOLB I think he looks something like Jarret Johnson, Calvin Pace. Now, that's not exactly following the type that the Steelers/Cardinals use and the preferred type of Horton, but it's fine for the mixed scheme he proposes to run. We'll see.

Although Maiava was drafted to be a 34 ILB, it's a safe bet he isn't resigned. Parker's not a good fit at OLB even though he was a solid pass rush specialist. Emmanuel Stephens is interesting-he certainly fits more as a hybrid DE/OLB then 43 DE, but he's still a fringe player. Carder's not a good fit and is also a fringe guy. That leaves a great big hole at ROLB and no depth there as well. That's why the first pick in the draft is 99% assured of being a OLB/DE. I think we'll also sign a FA there for depth but I'm skeptical we'll go after a big money guy like Anthony Spencer-if he'll even end up available. His teammate Vic Butler, though, could be in our sights.

Secondary
If we do spend some cash in FA, I think it'll be in the secondary. You can't run a great attacking D without great man coverage. Read recently that the Steelers will let their free agents test the market; therefore the list goes...

1. Keenan Lewis
2. Brent Grimes
3. Laron Landry
4. William Moore
5. Dashon Goldson
6. Kenny Phillips
7. Greg Toler
8. Sean Smith
9. Louis Delmas
10. Cary Williams
11. DRC
12. Antone Cason
13. Bradley Fletcher

After Haden our best guy is aging Sheldon. He really played pretty well last year but Banner traded him 3 years ago-he's got no chance of resigning now, even as a safety. I kind of like Skrine. He's steadily improving-but as yet he hasn't proven he can be more then a nickel. A couple of the guys brought up last year have real growth potential-Bademosi & Gipson-I'd like to see at least one stick.

CrossOfDeath
02-05-2013, 05:59 PM
Typical Cleveland Browns garbage. Cutting quallity talent just because we can. Sure he is over paid for a quality depth guy, but unless we plan on signing 4 big time free agents we have more than enough money to over pay a backup this season. Guy may not be the best fit for the 34 defense but most depth guys in a 34 are not great fits. He is listed at 275 but is clearly over 280 and right around the same size as Justin Smith. He would be a perfect fit to get smaller and quicker on obvious passing downs instead of our 300+ DEs.

Cleveland does this garbage ever year the cut quality players and replace them with other quality players. The problem is that you never build depth when you are trying to trade up at a position instead of adding to the pile. We had more than enough money to keep him and add more talent to a clearly talent depleted team.

Brown Leader
02-06-2013, 10:14 AM
I've got to agree. I thought Frostee would make a decent 34 DE. He's always been a tweener DE/DT and his strength is run defense-he was the most consistent run defender on the line.

Iamcanadian
02-07-2013, 04:24 PM
Typical Cleveland Browns garbage. Cutting quallity talent just because we can. Sure he is over paid for a quality depth guy, but unless we plan on signing 4 big time free agents we have more than enough money to over pay a backup this season. Guy may not be the best fit for the 34 defense but most depth guys in a 34 are not great fits. He is listed at 275 but is clearly over 280 and right around the same size as Justin Smith. He would be a perfect fit to get smaller and quicker on obvious passing downs instead of our 300+ DEs.

Cleveland does this garbage ever year the cut quality players and replace them with other quality players. The problem is that you never build depth when you are trying to trade up at a position instead of adding to the pile. We had more than enough money to keep him and add more talent to a clearly talent depleted team.

Unfortunately, GM's know all too well, that if they cannot produce an immediate winner, showing a large profit is the best way to keep their jobs and backups on a losing team always tend to be rookies as a result. That's why we have such a large cap # available and again unfortunately, the GM may choose to keep it large until he believes we are truly ready to compete.
Once he believes strongly enough then he knows he will have the money to add the final pieces, why waste it now just for a win or 2 more and have no money later when we will need to find a few pieces to the final puzzle.
Sacrifice now for a better future and we won't have a better future till we know we have a franchise QB who can produce. Until then it will always be more of the same.

BuckeyeDan17
03-06-2013, 07:42 AM
Hired Ray Farmer from KC to be an assistant GM.

I can dig that.

Brown Leader
03-06-2013, 08:55 AM
Idk.

Lombardi - And the more evaluators a team has involved in the process, the chance for a misevaluation increases. More evaluations just means more opinions -- it never results in a better way to reduce errors. As someone once said, they never dedicated a monument to a committee. When there is a committee evaluating quarterbacks, chances run high that mistakes will be made.
Mike Lombardi: Few have necessary traits to draft, coach quarterbacks (http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f773b8/article/few-have-necessary-traits-to-draft-coach-quarterbacks)

Brown Leader
03-06-2013, 01:31 PM
My free agent wish list:


Keenan Lewis /CB/ 6'1 208 /UFA Steelers (26)
2nd most passes def in league last season (23) behind behind all pro Rich Sherman (24). Nagging injuries late in the season slowed him but he didn't miss a start. Drafted 3rd round 09' when Horton was the DB coach.

Denario Alexander /WR/ 6'5 217 /RFA Chargers (24)
In 3 games vs the AFC North last season, he went 18 - 264 - 2TDs (both vs Steelers). Played like a #1 guy in Norv's offense with Rivers. Used down-field but was also their best yac guy with short screens/reverses/quick slants and gadget plays. (one nice throw) He's a RFA but he was originally an UFA in 09', which means the Chargers would have to offer a 2nd round tender to him, and he'd have to accept, for them to get any compensation for him if another team signs him. After a mini breakout in Norv's offense, it might be in his best interest to follow him to Cleveland rather then learn another new offense in SD. The chronic bad knee is a serious issue but I think it's a worthwhile risk/reward situation.

Fred Davis /TE/ 6'4 247 /UFA Redskins (27)
Prior to RG3, the best player on the Redskins offense and franchised in 11'. Carries some off field incidents-suspended for remainder of his breakout season in 11' after a second failed drug test and coming off a serious injury which might make him a bargain for his talent level. Recently made a public remark that he'd love to play for his hometown Browns-can't hurt.

Drew Stanton /QB/ 6'3 243 /UFA Colts (28)
If Lombardi and Banner are looking to avoid drafting a QB in13' but still want someone that can push Weeden, I'd rather go Stanton then anyone else, especially rumored Matt Moore. Stanton has a solid arm, mobility and just hasn't ever been in a situation where he could compete to be a starter.

BuckeyeDan17
03-10-2013, 10:33 AM
We've been in contact with paul kruger's agent. Also, I guess we've got interest in Myers from Oakland? (TE).

I like Myers - above average blocking and can separation. If Cameron continues his development well they can be a nice little duo. Cudders described the potential success of having two good TEs on the field together: You can do a lot with your formations such as putting them in motion, splitting them out to wide receiver, motioning into a TE stance, etc.

I'm not particularly excited about a draft handled by Lombardi but I am excited to see what Norv can do with our personnel. Likewise with Horton.

Honestly though, positions I want to see addressed without question are the guards. We need dudes that can get an actual push, not just stand in the way.

Cudders
03-16-2013, 06:41 AM
Well, it appears the Browns have made their moves in the free agent market, barring a few more peripheral signings.

I canít be too critical of Banner and Lombardiís first class together. Sure, we might have ďoverpaidĒ, but thatís the nature of the beast. In an open market, Cleveland needs to offer a stronger financial package to compensate for their lack of locale and recent contendership. Itís their selling point. I just hope the contracts are flexible and structured well in case the team needs to get out from under them. Which, given Bannerís shrewd past, Iím positive that potential exists.

Paul Kruger to the Browns was almost assured once the period opened, but I was surprised at the terms. I figured the premium wouldíve been a little higher. Kruger is what he is. A good pass-rushing linebacker with run-stopping deficiencies. Even though his sack numbers werenít dazzling, he still racked up 55 quarterback pressures last season, which led the Ravens. Those can create splashes and, more and more, thatís how modern defense is being measured. Love his attitude and mindset, too. He said his focus is becoming a complete defender. Often these big-ticket free agents press to impress. Being a well-rounded linebacker isnít what gets recognition, but itís easier than hitting high sack benchmarks from season-to-season. The bottom-line is the Browns needed a pass rusher. Banner and Lombardi targeted the best available and paid the requisite price. Do I wish he was a better edge-setter? Sure, but weíve also got a line of wide bodies to ease his burden somewhat.

Desmond Bryant wasnít expected, but itís a pleasant addition. Defensive line depth is critical. Bryant adds first-unit quality and makes our team deeper in the trenches for those physical divisional battles. In this case, the price tag was loftier than expected, but his blend of size, strength, and suddenness is quite covetable in the NFL and fits Hortonís profile. To be honest, I didnít watch a whole lot of the Raiders last season, but he was one of two defensive lineman that ďpoppedĒ most to me when I did. Plus, heís versatile. I expect him to start at end in base situations and kick inside for passing downs as another productive pass rusher.

Quentin Groves is a signing with some sneakiness. Heís a pass-rushing specialist that experienced the best ball of his pro career under Horton in Arizona last season. Heís a low-cost, sub-package defender. Perfect depth signing.

As far as ďmissesĒ go, Iím a little disappointed we didnít get involved in the defensive back market. I think thatís a valid concern and there were some interesting free agents available. I was a big-time supporter of signing Phillips from the Giants as a centerfielder, but his knees must be shot. Minimal interest, no long-term offers, etc. Itís a shame. His length, range, and zone awareness made him an ideal complement to Ward. Thought Keenan Lewis, Chris Houston, and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie were all intriguing options as a number two corner at $5 million per. Still wouldnít mind a stopgap guard that gets push in the running game either. I would even be willing to sacrifice some pass protection for it. Our guards are shield blockers. I would love a drive blocker on the inside.

Oh, and re-sign Captain Phil. I havenít seen much interest in him elsewhere. He shouldnít command a large hold and weíre still sitting on well over $30 million in cap space. I donít expect him to replicate a career season, but heís been as consistent as kickers get and a consummate club servant. I havenít heard his demands though.

If one more big bit of business gets done during the off-season, it just might involve Mallett. Rumors still have the Browns and Buccaneers pegged as suitors. The Browns donít have a second-round pick. The Buccaneers have a pending deal for Revis. That means the structure of a deal needs to be creative. If the Patriots arenít interested in a third-rounder or futures, the most enticing and likeliest alternative is swapping picks in the first. From a personal standpoint, I might have a principle deal on the backburner if I liked some options in that range, but I wouldnít pull the trigger on it until the draft. Keep all options open.

Looking ahead, itís hard to shortlist our needs for the draft. In no order, on the offensive side of the ball, I could see QB, WR, TE, and OG with potential mid-to-late round needs at RB and FB. On the defensive side of the ball, I could see OLB, ILB, CB, and FS. Wouldnít mind a punter either. But, given the needs addressed and the needs ignored, I would guess Dee Milliner is the front officeís first choice. Not his biggest fan, but it makes sense from a need perspective and Horton would love the aggressiveness. If we trade up though, I just might lose it.

Iamcanadian
03-17-2013, 03:20 PM
I really don't like what we did, what's the hurry? Unless, they believe Weeden is our franchise QB, we aren't going anywhere soon. These signing are just soaking up our cap $$$'s when we cannot really complete for a championship. Smart teams make their serious move when they have their major pieces in place, namely a true franchise QB.

Without a franchise QB, our limit is about 7 wins, no matter how many FA's we sign and I just worried that in a year or 2 when we hopefully find a great QB, we'll have no cap money to fill in around him. These signing are all for show IMO, to show that the owner will spend money to make the team better, but I feel it is the wrong year to do it.

The cap was flat this year and will likely be flat for awhile, which is why there are so many solid pros available in FA, I've never seen a FA crop like this one and it is because of the minimal cap increase, unheard of in the last decade and it will continue next year for sure.

Cudders
03-20-2013, 05:00 AM
I really don't like what we did, what's the hurry? Unless, they believe Weedon is our franchise QB, we aren't going anywhere soon. These signing are just soaking up our cap $$$'s when we cannot really complete for a championship. Smart teams make their serious move when they have their major pieces in place, namely a true franchise QB.

Without a franchise QB, our limit is about 7 wins, no matter how many FA's we sign and I just worried that in a year or 2 when we hopefully find a great QB, we'll have no cap money to fill in around him. These signing are all for show IMO, to show that the owner will spend money to make the team better, but I feel it is the wrong year to do it.

The cap was flat this year and will likely be flat for awhile, which is why there are so many solid pros available in FA, I've never seen a FA crop like this one and it is because of the minimal cap increase, unheard of in the last decade and it will continue next year for sure.

These arenít wasteful signings.

The terms might appear unfavorable, but Banner is a notorious conservationist when it comes to the cap. As the lead negotiator, I doubt he backed the Browns into an albatross that might hinder the teamís opportunities to improve down the road. In all likelihood, these contracts are structured with built-in escapes. Iím not the biggest fan of Joe Banner, but if thereís one place I have faith in him, itís in that area.

A pass-rushing linebacker was the clearest need for Cleveland. Starting-caliber defensive linemen and depth in that department are invaluable. We paid to get them, but thatís how open markets work. Even with the flat cap and recent additions, the Browns are better positioned than most teams. Cleveland is still one of the teams with the most cap space in the entire league.

Like I said, I donít think these moves are a stroke of genius, but I wouldnít call them unmitigated disasters either. Stagnating until a franchise quarterback just falls into our laps isnít reliable team-building either. If improvements can be made on the defensive side of the ball, improvements should be made. If an offensive piece is identified as a perfect scheme fit and part of a greater future, he shouldnít be neglected. A franchise quarterback carries critical importance for consistent contention, but I wouldnít want to bring one into a disheveled mess if it could be helped. Look at the Seahawks. Assembled a strong core and fielded a competitive outfit without a competent quarterback. Drafted Russell Wilson and their window opened in his first season. Having a good quarterback on their rookie contract is even more valuable. Youíre getting a discount at a position that demands a premium. Itís harder to earmark a finite number of dollars for a complete remodeling when an extension for a franchise quarterback is in the pipeline. Aaron Rodgersí new extension is estimated to be worth around $25 million per. And what if that particular free agent class is weak? Overspend on an inferior batch of talent?

On another note, add kicker to the list of needs. Browns didnít pursue re-signing Dawson and he joined the Niners. I wish him the best in San Francisco since heís been our talisman for so long, but I donít quite understand it from Clevelandís perspective. A short-term deal doesnít hamstring the cap and Dawsonís been one of the biggest generators of offense. Unless Haslam, Banner, and Lombardi are making a broader statement. Sending out the last survivor of the old guard.

Regardless, kicker is a need. The redzone personnel package hasnít improved. Still donít trust the offense to finish drives and that was a major weakness last season. Dawson camouflaged it somewhat.

BuckeyeDan17
03-20-2013, 01:21 PM
These arenít wasteful signings.

The terms might appear unfavorable, but Banner is a notorious conservationist when it comes to the cap. As the lead negotiator, I doubt he backed the Browns into an albatross that might hinder the teamís opportunities to improve down the road. In all likelihood, these contracts are structured with built-in escapes. Iím not the biggest fan of Joe Banner, but if thereís one place I have faith in him, itís in that area.

A pass-rushing linebacker was the clearest need for Cleveland. Starting-caliber defensive linemen and depth in that department are invaluable. We paid to get them, but thatís how open markets work. Even with the flat cap and recent additions, the Browns are better positioned than most teams. Cleveland is still one of the teams with the most cap space in the entire league.

Like I said, I donít think these moves are a stroke of genius, but I wouldnít call them unmitigated disasters either. Stagnating until a franchise quarterback just falls into our laps isnít reliable team-building either. If improvements can be made on the defensive side of the ball, improvements should be made. If an offensive piece is identified as a perfect scheme fit and part of a greater future, he shouldnít be neglected. A franchise quarterback carries critical importance for consistent contention, but I wouldnít want to bring one into a disheveled mess if it could be helped. Look at the Seahawks. Assembled a strong core and fielded a competitive outfit without a competent quarterback. Drafted Russell Wilson and their window opened in his first season. Having a good quarterback on their rookie contract is even more valuable. Youíre getting a discount at a position that demands a premium. Itís harder to earmark a finite number of dollars for a complete remodeling when an extension for a franchise quarterback is in the pipeline. Aaron Rodgersí new extension is estimated to be worth around $25 million per. And what if that particular free agent class is weak? Overspend on an inferior batch of talent?

On another note, add kicker to the list of needs. Browns didnít pursue re-signing Dawson and he joined the Niners. I wish him the best in San Francisco since heís been our talisman for so long, but I donít quite understand it from Clevelandís perspective. A short-term deal doesnít hamstring the cap and Dawsonís been one of the biggest generators of offense. Unless Haslam, Banner, and Lombardi are making a broader statement. Sending out the last survivor of the old guard.

Regardless, kicker is a need. The redzone personnel package hasnít improved. Still donít trust the offense to finish drives and that was a major weakness last season. Dawson camouflaged it somewhat.

I hope this wasn't the case; however, it's difficult to tell. It will be more apparent when players like Mack, Haden and others are on the verge of needing to be re-signed.

While I personally really like what we did in free agency it still seems as if we have some glaring holes. I don't think Chance Warmack is much of an option at 6 but perhaps a trade down would help us out and we can nab him where it's more 'appropriate.' I'm not interested in another season of seeing Pinkston just stand in the way of defenders for a moment.

I see that we're pushing for Brent Grimes. I like him but am wary of his injury. It was stated that his physical went fine but that doesn't mean he's going to be the same player - if they think he can be, great. Haden needs a partner in crime. I wouldn't mind Dee Milliner at 6.

Further, we were trying to go after Fred Davis from what's swirling in the media. I have to say I'm a bit indifferent to this one. Another injury concern there. There seems to be some solid depth at the TE position for the draft class - I wouldn't mind grabbing one in a middle round and seeing if he can challenge Cameron.

Mike could be a position of need also if D-Jax doesn't fare well in the new system. He already didn't once before; however, it was with suspect talent up front.

Should be an interesting draft this time.

keylime_5
03-20-2013, 01:48 PM
Well you have to be excited about our front seven. We have Taylor/Rubin/Bryant/Winn/Hughes/Kitchen at DT. Sheard/Kruger/Groves at OLB. Joe Thomas said Kruger was the real deal last season and that they feared him with the same respect they usually gave Terrell Suggs when they played Baltimore last year. That's an encouraging thought. Kruger is definitely an up and comer who's best football is ahead of him - something rare to find out of free agent pass rushers. Jackson and Gocong and James-Michael Johnson (who I think will be a really solid player this season and going forward) are solid at ILB. But we've seen you can have above average ILBs as long as your DL and pass rushers are outstanding.

We need to add talent to the secondary and find another stud TE and WR and the team should be pretty close to set. Of course we need to find a QB. As soon as we find our QB we will be ready to contend. That's harder said than done.

But regardless, we fixed the defense by adding two really good young players. We are almost a QB away - which is something that cannot be said about this team in the past, so be EXCITED about the moves!

mdmgrand
03-20-2013, 07:42 PM
When Shurmur (rarely) when to Shotgun-hurry up... Weeden moved the chains... That excites me, especially if Chud/Turner can see that Weeden did a great job in a hurry up offense similar to the one he ran at OK State.

Cudders
03-21-2013, 07:00 AM
I think Weeden will improve under the new offensive staff, and I love his willingness for competition, but quarterback is still the biggest need. Even with a sizeable improvement from Weeden, the gap between top-notch quarterbacking and our quarterbacking is wide. If management feels that Geno shined during their vetting process, I wouldnít mind the pick. With the signings of Kruger and Groves, an edge-rusher is tabled in all likelihood. After sitting down and watching a handful of Jordanís games, I would have loved to seen what he was capable of in an aggressive and versatile defense like Hortonís, but it isnít a pressing need and heís not guaranteed to last that long either. And, considering his blitz tendencies, I would guess Horton is comfortable with the current pressure pair. Unless Sheard is being shopped.

So, weíre looking at a cornerback, left guard, or quarterback in the first. I donít feel right about projecting Milliner as a shutdown corner. The value of a left guard in the top ten gets pinged. Quarterback might be the biggest risk, but itís also the biggest reward. Geno is a good conceptual fit. Natural arm talent, vertical willingness, precise flashes, zone-read potential, strong work ethic, and support from an offensive line. If Norv believes he can fix the mechanical issues once he gets his hands on Geno, it makes a lot of sense. But, again, heís not guaranteed to last until our pick either.

Itís a tough spot. In an ideal world, I think trading down is the best option, but I donít see the opportunities. Who wants to come up to us? For who? And from where? At that point, Iím looking at Warmack or Cooper at left guard, Eifert at tight end, Fluker at right guard, and Rhodes or Trufant at corner. We canít drop that far and keep those options. If weíre forced to pick at six, Jordan and Geno would be one and two. After that, I would favor Warmack over Milliner.

In other news, itís going to be interesting to see how Trent Richardson handles the new running back penalties. As a compact runner, Richardson lowered his head quite a bit to generate power and finish runs. I understand the rule is exclusive to the crown of the helmet, but thatís such a subjective judgment. Even though the facemask, hairline, and shoulder are still allowable, there will be times referees err on the side of caution given their mandate or miss subtleties given their angle or the bang-bang nature of it.

Iamcanadian
03-21-2013, 03:47 PM
I think Weeden should improve in his 2nd season, however, it worries me that the team seems to lack confidence in his ability to be a solid starter. Six or 7 wins just make it extremely difficult to draft a franchise QB and that is the win totals I think we will be around next season if everything goes well.

Brown Leader
03-22-2013, 12:44 PM
John Greco played considerably better then any other OG we have once he got in there. I really think interior lineman is not an option. The lack of running productivity, imo, had a lot to do with a hesitant RB nursing nagging injuries and a sub par play-caller. Hardesty had his most productive season yet behind the same line in limited opportunities and he has poor vision.

I'm not as optimistic about the defense as.. let's say Keylime:wave: but I do like signing Kruger and especially Bryant. Kruger is not an all pro but he does get pretty consistent pressure. Bryant looks something like a raw Richard Seymour. I'm really curious to see how he'll pan out.

keylime_5
03-22-2013, 01:00 PM
Yeah, the people clamoring for Warmack in the first round for us just baffle me. It is so easy to find a good or at least solid OG in the middle rounds any given year. Let's take a player at a premium position like QB, CB, or pass rusher at #6 instead of wasting the value on an interior lineman.

As far as the defense, all I've gotta say is that we had a pretty good looking young defense last year and we improved it even more with good young players. Just fix the secondary and it'll have elite potential.

Cudders
03-22-2013, 11:14 PM
In an ideal world, we donít have to pick Warmack at six. But navigating the draft and trading down is a lot easier said than done. At this point, Jordan and Smith would sit atop the big board in all likelihood. Jordan is a versatile defender with salivating blitz and coverage potential. Smith is a talented quarterback with franchise upside if his footwork and post-snap validation check out. I wouldnít argue with either of those picks over Warmack.

Itís the group after that. Dee Milliner? No thanks. Heís got aggressiveness, closing speed, and reads the game well when itís in front of him. After that? He needs more work than people are talking about. Because those three traits arenít even the most important aspects of being a cornerback. At ĎBama, Milliner leaned on bail and shuffle techniques. It highlighted the strengths of his skill set, but those arenít NFL techniques. Heís going to be put in unfamiliar situations and his athletic differential is going to be minimal. Heís not a good enough athlete to compensate for poor technique. People love to bring up the pair of blazing forties at the Combine, but his other tests were a little alarming. He finished 18th out of 25 participants in the three-cone drill and 24th out of 26 participants in the short shuttle. That puts him in the 28th percentile and 8th percentile. Oh, and heís one of the grabbiest college corners, too.

If the choice is between Milliner and Warmack, Iím taking Warmack. We donít have a foundational quarterback. Our offense is built around the premise of a powerful ground game. We invested multiple picks into a top-shelf runner. Thereís nothing wrong with making strengths even stronger. Our guards are shielders. Warmack is a driver and mover. A unit of Thomas / Warmack / Mack / Greco / Schwartz blends punch and pass pro and gives the Browns a unique element.

For example, letís assume the Chiefs draft Joeckel. The Jaguars draft Geno. The Raiders draft Ansah. The Eagles draft Jordan. The Lions draft Milliner. The Browns are on the clock. The phone isnít ringing. Whose name is on the card?

Brown Leader
03-23-2013, 09:35 AM
I really think it could be offensive playmaker. Check the mock in the sig, Tavon Austin, Cordarrelle or even Keenan Allen depending on how he looks in his individual workout. Just a hunch, but I'm not sure they're especially high on the WRs, particularly Little. I was such a big fan of his at UNC but as a pro, he's got too much Arrelious Benn to his game (another guy I loved coming out).

And I remember reading a transcript from either Chud or Banner a few months back about, what I took to mean, they were considering surrounding BW with weapons and seeing how he progresses.

If it's still defense, I've seen some talk of Rhodes at #6, but I'm not a big fan of his, especially that high. Vaccaro might be a possibility.

Iamcanadian
03-25-2013, 04:44 PM
I think we need to draft offense and then more offense. Offense wins in the NFL today and even if it turns out that we still need to find a franchise QB, at least the rest of the offense will be in place.

keylime_5
03-26-2013, 09:49 AM
Yeah I agree the offense needs talent and attention from the front office in a bad way compared to the defense, but really we are pretty young and have some talented pieces in place offensively. If there is a great TE or WR sitting there we should grab him, but at 6 the value isn't there. We would have to trade down to improve the offense and get good value - and considering the talent at 6 is about the same as the talent at 20, it's not gonna be easy to move down. We have Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Richardson, Cameron as some very young, very high upside, unproven skill position players. Really I think the only thing we really need badly offensively is a QB. If we had an elite QB our young skill players would look a lot better than they will if we have Weeden out there.

So if we're not gonna find a franchise QB at 6 (doubtful) then we best go BPA and that is probably Milliner or another front seven defender.

LonghornsLegend
03-26-2013, 10:04 AM
For example, letís assume the Chiefs draft Joeckel. The Jaguars draft Geno. The Raiders draft Ansah. The Eagles draft Jordan. The Lions draft Milliner. The Browns are on the clock. The phone isnít ringing. Whose name is on the card?

If that happens you should likely have callers trying to grab Shariff Floyd no? I like your premise with Warmack and that line, that would be a studly line and why not build around Trent anyway until you get your QB.

Iamcanadian
03-26-2013, 01:20 PM
I've heard over and over that in this draft, the #5 pick has the same value that the #25 has, if true, I don't think you can pin down our pick, we could go in many directions and still get value. Just because mocks have settled into a pattern doesn't make it so. I think we have a lot of options, hopefully, we make the right choice.

Brown Leader
03-26-2013, 01:23 PM
If that happens you should likely have callers trying to grab Shariff Floyd no? I like your premise with Warmack and that line, that would be a studly line and why not build around Trent anyway until you get your QB.

That's like going backwards in time. Draft a RB top 5 then compound that by taking a OG at #6 to build around him.

Yeah I agree the offense needs talent and attention from the front office in a bad way compared to the defense, but really we are pretty young and have some talented pieces in place offensively. If there is a great TE or WR sitting there we should grab him, but at 6 the value isn't there. We would have to trade down to improve the offense and get good value - and considering the talent at 6 is about the same as the talent at 20, it's not gonna be easy to move down. We have Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Richardson, Cameron as some very young, very high upside, unproven skill position players. Really I think the only thing we really need badly offensively is a QB. If we had an elite QB our young skill players would look a lot better than they will if we have Weeden out there.

So if we're not gonna find a franchise QB at 6 (doubtful) then we best go BPA and that is probably Milliner or another front seven defender.

I think we'll see positional value is different now with the new CBA. It's more about how teams grade a guy and what's the best fit. I'm warming up more and more to Eifert with our first pick. Our pursuit of Fred Davis and interest in Cook points to how high they value the position and what they think of Cameron as a starter.

Iamcanadian
03-26-2013, 01:34 PM
That's like going backwards in time. Draft a RB top 5 then compound that by taking a OG at #6 to build around him.

[QUOTE]Yeah, but they could consider that most team's defenses are built today to stop the pass and an excellent running attack just might have great success taking a lot of pressure off of Weeden. It would be interesting to see if it would work.]QUOTE]



I think we'll see positional value is different now with the new CBA. It's more about how teams grade a guy and what's the best fit. I'm warming up more and more to Eifert with our first pick. Our pursuit of Fred Davis and interest in Cook points to how high they value the position and what they think of Cameron as a starter.

However, the TE position in this year's draft is pretty deep in talent, so waiting a round or 2 might be advisable.

BuckeyeDan17
03-26-2013, 01:41 PM
I've heard over and over that in this draft, the #5 pick has the same value that the #25 has, if true, I don't think you can pin down our pick, we could go in many directions and still get value. Just because mocks have settled into a pattern doesn't make it so. I think we have a lot of options, hopefully, we make the right choice.

What's the right choice...?

I think Geno's a solid option.

keylime_5
03-27-2013, 09:25 AM
Eifert is a nice prospect, but I don't think he's the class of tight end that warrants that high of a pick. The CBA is one thing, but taking a tight end - who doesn't exactly profile as a Jimmy Graham or Rob Gronkowski or Tony Gonzalez type elite playmaker who is basically a WR in a power forward's body - at #6 over good players at premium positions isn't a good idea. Get the high upside pass rusher who might be the next Aldon Smith or Jason Pierre-Paul with Jordan/Ansah, or get the top cornerback talent. Don't pigeonhole for need.

I agree with what Canadian says about our options being more open than people think. This is a year I could see some surprise picks all over the top 10/top 15. Kenny Vaccaro, Tyler Eifert, Tavon Austin, Sheldon Richardson, Barkevious Mingo - guys like that could shoot way up who knows?

Cudders
03-27-2013, 10:25 AM
I've heard over and over that in this draft, the #5 pick has the same value that the #25 has, if true, I don't think you can pin down our pick, we could go in many directions and still get value. Just because mocks have settled into a pattern doesn't make it so. I think we have a lot of options, hopefully, we make the right choice.

Bingo.

There are less than five prospects worth a top ten grade in the colloquial sense. The Browns are sitting at sixth. Itís an unenviable situation, but it is what it is. In all likelihood, when Cleveland gets put on the clock, weíre looking at a board of mid-first talent. In general, would I draft an offensive guard in the top ten? No, I wouldnít. But, in this particular draft for this particular team in this particular situation, I wouldnít dismiss it on principle alone. Itís not like we would be passing on an elite corner for an elite guard. We would be passing on a second-tier corner for an elite guard. And guard is an area of the team thatís primed for an upgrade.

Norvís brand of formation variation and versatile game-calling is what separates him from most offensive coordinators. Yes, heís been most successful with Dallas (Aikman) and San Diego (Rivers), but thereís a common thread between those two stops that isnít a quarterback. Both teams had foundational running games. Emmitt Smith was as good of a grinder as the NFL has ever seen. LaDainian Tomlinson was a well-rounded, All-Pro runner in his own right.

Norv will pass from run formations, run from pass formations, implement the same design across dozens of formations, and implement dozens of different designs within the same formation. A strong ground game is an asset to accomplishing those things. We can argue whether Richardson shouldíve been a top five pick or whether a guard should be a top ten pick, but both improve the offense. And widen windows for Weeden.

In the end, I wouldnít rule out a direction. If the staff loves Geno, itís impossible to argue the value of a quarterback. I wouldnít dump a project like Cordarrelle Patterson on first-time receiver coach Scott Turner, but his raw talent is evident. Keenan Allen is a smooth complement opposite Josh Gordon. Tavon Austin brings a ton of explosiveness and after-the-catch danger. Eifert shows big-time NFL talent and could be a true weapon for the offense. Chance Warmack is an enticing piece that could complete the best left side in the league. Dion Jordan is a versatile defender that a creative coordinator like Horton could use. Xavier Rhodes, Desmond Trufant, and even Dee Milliner (with some work) all profile as good number twos to Haden and address the biggest need. Thatís ten possibilities in the first that can impact the team.

keylime_5
03-27-2013, 10:39 AM
I'm definitely of the philosophy for upside. At 6, in any draft in today's NFL, you do not take a guard. You can find guys like Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, and Marshal Yanda in the middle rounds a LOT easier than you can find guys with the potential to be big time pass rushers or cover corners or quarterbacks, etc. We should take a shot at a high upside guy like Milliner, Jordan, Ansah, even Smith or Patterson or Austin over any guard. It's not like we're hurting on the Oline anyways, we have 3 really good Olinemen, we can put the finishing touches by finding a good guard elsewhere. I can't describe how stupid we would be for spending a top 6 pick on an OG a year after spending a top 3 pick and some change on a RB. This isn't 1965.

gpngc
03-27-2013, 10:42 AM
I've been saying Austin for a while. They want to surround Weeden/QBx with talent. Austin is the best slot WR prospect... ever.

I personally think he's the best non-lineman in the draft.

Iamcanadian
03-27-2013, 10:58 AM
I'm definitely of the philosophy for upside. At 6, in any draft in today's NFL, you do not take a guard. You can find guys like Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, and Marshal Yanda in the middle rounds a LOT easier than you can find guys with the potential to be big time pass rushers or cover corners or quarterbacks, etc. We should take a shot at a high upside guy like Milliner, Jordan, Ansah, even Smith or Patterson or Austin over any guard. It's not like we're hurting on the Oline anyways, we have 3 really good Olinemen, we can put the finishing touches by finding a good guard elsewhere. I can't describe how stupid we would be for spending a top 6 pick on an OG a year after spending a top 3 pick and some change on a RB. This isn't 1965.

Myself, I like Jordan if he is still there at #6. I see a lot of upside in his game and the potential to be a real star. However, I think they just might consider one of the OG's if they are determined to run the ball as the main feature of our offense. Yes, you can find great OG's later in the draft but teams often say, why not take the one you know is the best just like they do with RB's where 3 went round 1 last year.
Milliner is the last one I'd take as I think he will be solid but IMO, offense is our trouble spot not defense and I'd like to see more offense drafted.
I wouldn't touch Austin before picks 21-32, just too high an injury factor given his height and weight.

keylime_5
04-01-2013, 10:25 AM
I would take a guard in round one if he's as good as Warmack, just no where near #6 overall. That is a waste of value. You can get an all pro guard in round 2 or mid-late round one because that's where elite guard prospects go. Our offense is a trouble spot, but with Thomas-Mack-Schwartz as our young OLine foundation I'm not terrible worried about our line. We could use a power guard in there to help our running game, but our real problem is the QB and the guys catching the ball - not so much protection or the backs. Smashmouth football is more about a mindset and the numbers game in the NFL than it is about having a super stud OG.

BuckeyeDan17
04-01-2013, 10:34 AM
Greg Little really started to come around during the second half of the season, Flash is awesome and Benjamin has talent which Shurmur had no idea how to utilize.

I think they could be really good, although I wouldn't be upset with Patterson and throwing Little in the slot.

In a trade down I love Warmack but like you said 6 just isn't really acceptable. If we cant swing a deal for a trade down Dion Jordan is a guy I have heavy interest in given his vast potential.

Iamcanadian
04-01-2013, 12:00 PM
I would take a guard in round one if he's as good as Warmack, just no where near #6 overall. That is a waste of value. You can get an all pro guard in round 2 or mid-late round one because that's where elite guard prospects go. Our offense is a trouble spot, but with Thomas-Mack-Schwartz as our young OLine foundation I'm not terrible worried about our line. We could use a power guard in there to help our running game, but our real problem is the QB and the guys catching the ball - not so much protection or the backs. Smashmouth football is more about a mindset and the numbers game in the NFL than it is about having a super stud OG.

Normally, I would completely agree that an OG at #6 is way too high but if the team is determined to run the ball as the main feature of our offense, then taking a stud OG just isn't out of the equation IMO. The team has to go with what will help the team win and if that is a great OL, so be it, after all, it won't hurt the passing attack either.
If Warmack or Cooper are as good as advertised then our OL will serve many purposes, allow the running attack to succeed which in its way, allows the defense to get a lot of rest thereby improving its overall performance, and assisting a weak passing game by giving Weeden superb protection.
There is a lot to say for drafting a real stud at OG. Of course trading back and then picking an OG is even better plus adding another pick or 2 would be great.
IMO, if our offense uses the run to control the game clock an awful lot of possibilities open up for our team and I just don't see any other scenario where another pick will have that effect. Having the odd ball team that wins through the run, just might prove successful against a league where team defenses are designed to stop the pass, it just might prove successful.

keylime_5
04-01-2013, 12:16 PM
Just saying, drafting a stud CB or stud OLB will go a LOT farther in helping this team win than wasting a high pick on an OG. You can find pro bowl CBs and pass rushers in the first round early but rarely ever later in the draft unless you get super lucky. Quality starting OGs come out of the middle rounds every year. Play the percentages. Never EVER pass on a top 10 pick caliber cornerback for a guard when you have a huge giant gaping hole at cornerback like we do (yet 3 decent enough guards).

Iamcanadian
04-02-2013, 11:53 AM
Just saying, drafting a stud CB or stud OLB will go a LOT farther in helping this team win than wasting a high pick on an OG. You can find pro bowl CBs and pass rushers in the first round early but rarely ever later in the draft unless you get super lucky. Quality starting OGs come out of the middle rounds every year. Play the percentages. Never EVER pass on a top 10 pick caliber cornerback for a guard when you have a huge giant gaping hole at cornerback like we do (yet 3 decent enough guards).

Yeah, but offense is our Achilles heal, we cannot score and certainly don't scare anybody with it. Our defense, even after being on the field most of the game, still holds its own. Imagine if our OL was one of the best in the NFL and could control the game by running the ball, keeping our defense well rested.

If Richardson is to be our offense then why not give him the weapons to make that type of offense work. Warmack is one of the best OG's to come along in years and could be totally dominating in our offense.
Offense wins in today's NFL and it looks like our offense will be a solid running attack, so why not give it the best opportunity for success.

I agree, I doubt they do it, but the pick wouldn't be terrible in my eyes even if it is unconventional, after all, is Milliner or Jordan going to give us even 1 more win as long as our offense remains pitiful.

keylime_5
04-02-2013, 12:53 PM
I think our woes on offense have more to do with Weeden, the WRs, and even Richardson than they have to do with our OGs. With better QB play and Richardson becoming a more patient, decisive runner who doesn't dance around and uses his vision - I think the offense would be much improved. That's easier said than done, we haven't had good QB play in eons. I'm worried about our secondary and our skill positions a lot more than I am about our Oline. I could stand an upgrade at guard, but wasting the #6 pick on one is not an option.

BuckeyeDan17
04-02-2013, 04:48 PM
You could argue Richardson's tentativeness is derived from his playing a majority of the season with broken ribs.

I really don't see what's wrong with our receivers when Flash had the best rookies season, Little came around in the second half and Benjamin wasn't even utilized to his ability due to Shurmur's idiocy. It could be fine, I wouldn't mind Patterson or Allen I guess.

I agree our secondary outside of Haden flat out blows. I wont accept the claim Ward is good because he isn't. it's probably Milliner, Jordan or Geno Smith.

Iamcanadian
04-03-2013, 08:15 AM
Well, I think Milliner will be our pick as Jordan is likely gone by #6 and IMO, Geo Smith wouldn't be much of an improvement over Weeden. There has to be a reason why so many of the QB hungrey teams went in a different direction, signing veterans vs drafting Smith, and I'd say Smith just isn't a top 10 talent, so I don't want to think we will use the #6 pick on him.

But, unlike Keylime, it wouldn't completely shock me if we drafted one of the 2 OG's, after all, it is extremely rare that OG's get talked about in the top 10, so you know they are extra special talents and we aren't a normal NFL offense at this point and might build to our strength, knowing running the ball is the only way we are going to win games.

keylime_5
04-04-2013, 04:00 PM
I think Richardson's tentativeness might have been due to the ribs, it probably had something to do with his rushing average being lower than expected. Either way, point is I don't think it had much to do with our OG play. I mean, Hardesty looked fine, and on the goalline we had no problem getting push for Richardson. Oline as a whole was pretty darn good last year. It's one thing to talk about taking a guard round one, it's a whole different animal talking about spending the #6 overall pick on a player who can only play offensive guard without the versatility to be a tackle.

Iamcanadian
04-06-2013, 10:03 AM
I think Richardson's tentativeness might have been due to the ribs, it probably had something to do with his rushing average being lower than expected. Either way, point is I don't think it had much to do with our OG play. I mean, Hardesty looked fine, and on the goalline we had no problem getting push for Richardson. Oline as a whole was pretty darn good last year. It's one thing to talk about taking a guard round one, it's a whole different animal talking about spending the #6 overall pick on a player who can only play offensive guard without the versatility to be a tackle.

I'm not really disagreeing with you as I said I doubt we will draft an OG but it would have made our OL dominating not just good, and running the ball is what we are all about.

keylime_5
04-08-2013, 10:38 AM
It certainly would be interesting to see an Oline of Thomas, Schwartz, Mack, Cooper/Warmack. Personally I like Cooper a little more, I love watching highlights of him pulling and just taking guys out - not many OGs can run like that.

Iamcanadian
04-12-2013, 12:21 PM
It certainly would be interesting to see an Oline of Thomas, Schwartz, Mack, Cooper/Warmack. Personally I like Cooper a little more, I love watching highlights of him pulling and just taking guys out - not many OGs can run like that.

As a side note, in the ongoing mock forum draft, Pancake took Warmack at #6 for Cleveland.

keylime_5
04-15-2013, 10:43 AM
As we get closer and closer to the draft, I get the feeling more and more that this trade down scenario to #11 or 12 or wherever is more realistic and not just a what-if deal. I would love to recoup a 2nd rounder and get a guy of similar value (b/c all the top 20 players are about the same type of value in this draft, much like in 2009). For instance we could land Xavier Rhodes or Kenny Vaccaro or whoever at #12 and then get another good player in the top 50 picks of round 2. Matt Elam, Johnathan Banks, Kyle Long, Jonathan Cyprien, Justin Pugh, Jamar Taylor are just a few possible names who come to mind. Not to mention that is where the value is at QB in this draft (EJ Manuel and Ryan Nassib).

Iamcanadian
04-15-2013, 11:06 AM
As we get closer and closer to the draft, I get the feeling more and more that this trade down scenario to #11 or 12 or wherever is more realistic and not just a what-if deal. I would love to recoup a 2nd rounder and get a guy of similar value (b/c all the top 20 players are about the same type of value in this draft, much like in 2009). For instance we could land Xavier Rhodes or Kenny Vaccaro or whoever at #12 and then get another good player in the top 50 picks of round 2. Matt Elam, Johnathan Banks, Kyle Long, Jonathan Cyprien, Justin Pugh, Jamar Taylor are just a few possible names who come to mind. Not to mention that is where the value is at QB in this draft (EJ Manuel and Ryan Nassib).

I think you are dead on about the variances in rankings. I've heard 2 different scenarios, one where the 5th pick is pretty well the same as the 25th pick and another where the 8th pick is pretty well the same as the 28th pick, so of course, everybody but his mother's uncle wants to trade back in this type of draft.

The issue is finding a trading partner who is willing to give up picks knowing that each pick in this year's top 100 is potential gold for the team securing them. If the forum mocks I have taken part in are any indication, only LT's can secure a team extra picks, no other position is as inviting. In the mocks I took part in, KC, Jacksonville, Oakland and Philadelphia are all willing to trade down with other teams so they can secure one of the 3 LT's in this year's draft which would leave Cleveland out of the loop, completely.
I really hope we are approached for one of the LT's but I'm not holding my breath, we could easily get left out of this scenario.

keylime_5
04-15-2013, 09:35 PM
Yeah, we are in the honey hole for a trade down. Joeckel and Fisher will be gone by pick #5, the Cardinals at #7 need a left tackle, and we have pick #6. San Diego and Miami want a LT bad and Miami in particular has two 2nd rounders. Buffalo could use a LT too, and Arizona might move up a spot to secure their guy like we did last year with TRich. Win-win for the Browns. Lane Johnson is gonna make the Browns a pick or two richer I think come draft day.

Iamcanadian
04-16-2013, 03:41 PM
Yeah, we are in the honey hole for a trade down. Joeckel and Fisher will be gone by pick #5, the Cardinals at #7 need a left tackle, and we have pick #6. San Diego and Miami want a LT bad and Miami in particular has two 2nd rounders. Buffalo could use a LT too, and Arizona might move up a spot to secure their guy like we did last year with TRich. Win-win for the Browns. Lane Johnson is gonna make the Browns a pick or two richer I think come draft day.

I have to disagree, since Backus retired in Detroit, the Lions are now looking for a LT, there is a fair chance all three LT's go in the top 5 leaving Cleveland out of the loop. We need to pray, at least 1 LT is still availabler after the 5th pick, but I'm not holding my breath. Jacksonville, Oakland and Philly could all step in and find the gravy for themselves.

keylime_5
04-17-2013, 12:32 PM
Well yeah, if the left tackles all go top 5 obviously we lose our advantage....but I suspect that Kansas City takes one and that one of Philadelphia and Detroit takes one. I'm not convinced Detroit takes Lane Johnson over Milliner and Ansah if Fisher/Joeckel are gone, though it is a possibility. In any case, even if 3 LTs all go top 5, that pushes probably either Star Lotuleilei or Dion Jordan or somebody to us at 6, which isn't bad.

Iamcanadian
04-17-2013, 01:21 PM
Well yeah, if the left tackles all go top 5 obviously we lose our advantage....but I suspect that Kansas City takes one and that one of Philadelphia and Detroit takes one. I'm not convinced Detroit takes Lane Johnson over Milliner and Ansah if Fisher/Joeckel are gone, though it is a possibility. In any case, even if 3 LTs all go top 5, that pushes probably either Star Lotuleilei or Dion Jordan or somebody to us at 6, which isn't bad.

I think there are 9 elite prospects in this year's draft, unfortunately 2 of the top 5 are OG's, Warmack and Cooper, that leaves 7 decent prospects left, so in any case, we are going to get an elite talent.

We could still possibly trade down for extra picks but finding a trading partner won't be easy if the 3 LT's go in the top 5.

keylime_5
04-17-2013, 02:12 PM
I would hesitate to call most of the guys in this draft elite. Cooper and Warmack certainly are elite guard prospects, but elite guard prospects go in the teens in any draft, maybe later (DeCastro went in the 20s). This is not a top heavy draft at all, but the number of guys viewed as non-project, franchise left tackles in this draft are 3, and they will go much higher than usual because the demand is so high in the top 12 picks. Sharrif Floyd, Dion Jordan, Barkevious Mingo, and Ezekiel Ansah are surefire top 10 picks this year, but their production compared to guys at their positions who went that high the past few years is ridiculously lower. Guys like Xavier Rhodes and Kenny Vaccaro and Jarvis Jones and Tavon Austin and DJ Fluker and Sheldon Richardson aren't considered elite but their value is barely lower if not roughly the same than that of these surefire top 10 picks. Whoever we would get at 12 would be about the same value as whoever we would get at 6. I mean, Mingo and Jordan are almost the same player physically, but one will go #2 most likely and the other will go in the 6-10 range. So yeah, let's hope there is a tackle on the board still when our pick comes up so we can get a better value and move down.

Iamcanadian
04-18-2013, 12:03 PM
I would hesitate to call most of the guys in this draft elite. Cooper and Warmack certainly are elite guard prospects, but elite guard prospects go in the teens in any draft, maybe later (DeCastro went in the 20s). This is not a top heavy draft at all, but the number of guys viewed as non-project, franchise left tackles in this draft are 3, and they will go much higher than usual because the demand is so high in the top 12 picks. Sharrif Floyd, Dion Jordan, Barkevious Mingo, and Ezekiel Ansah are surefire top 10 picks this year, but their production compared to guys at their positions who went that high the past few years is ridiculously lower. Guys like Xavier Rhodes and Kenny Vaccaro and Jarvis Jones and Tavon Austin and DJ Fluker and Sheldon Richardson aren't considered elite but their value is barely lower if not roughly the same than that of these surefire top 10 picks. Whoever we would get at 12 would be about the same value as whoever we would get at 6. I mean, Mingo and Jordan are almost the same player physically, but one will go #2 most likely and the other will go in the 6-10 range. So yeah, let's hope there is a tackle on the board still when our pick comes up so we can get a better value and move down.

Well, here my potential 1st round board 44 deep with 9 elite prospects:

Elite: Will start right away and should become Pro Bowlers eventually.

1) Luke Joeckel LT
2) Eric Fisher LT
3) Chance Warmack OG
4) Jonathan Cooper OG
5) Dee Milliner CB
6) Sharrif Floyd DT
7) Dion Jordan DE/OLB
8) Star Lotulelei DT
9) Lane Johnson LT

Blue Chip: Most will start right away but some won't be starters till midway through the season. A few will make it to the Pro Bowl.

10) Tavon Austin WR
11) Kenny Vaccaro S
12) Barkevious Mingo OLB
13) Xavier Rhodes CB
14) Ziggy Ansah DE
15) Sheldon Richardson DT
16) Keenan Allen WR
17) Alec Ogletree LB
18) Jarvis Jones OLB
19) Sylvester Williams DT
20) Tyler Eifert TE
21) Geno Smith QB
22) Cordarrelle Patterson WR
23) Bjoern Werner DE
24) D.J. Fluker RT

Red Chip: All potential first rounders. Depending on who drafts them, some could start right away, but most will start by mid season or at least in their second season.

25) Manti Te'o ILB
26) Eric Reid S
27) Damontre Moore DE/OLB
28) Matt Elam S
29) David Amerson CB
30) Desmond Trufant CB
31) Robert Woods WR
32) Margus Hunt DE
33) DeAndre Hopkins WR
34) Justin Hunter WR
35) Eddie Lacy RB
36) Matt Barkley QB
37) E.J. Manuel QB
38) Le'Veon Bell RB
39) Menelik Watson OT
40) Giovani Bernard RB
41) Datone Jones DE
42) Arthur Brown LB
43) Zach Ertz TE
44) Jonathan Hankins DT

I think after all is said and done, that there is clearly 9 prospects who I would rate elite in any draft, it just lacks skill prospects. I also don't think DeCastro was in the class of these 2 OG's, he was a 11-15 talent but nowhere near top 5 in his overall talent.

I don't think either Mingo or Ansah is likely to be drafted top 10 although Mingo has a slight chance.

The OL clearly dominates this draft which just isn't sexy for the Media, which is why everybody is saying this draft isn't top heavy especially since they are mostly OLmen.

keylime_5
04-18-2013, 12:16 PM
I would certainly put Ansah up there in the top tier, he is a possible top 5 pick...and Mingo is a top 10 lock as well. Idk, maybe your use of the word elite is more lax than mine. Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Marcel Dareus, Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Eric Berry, Patrick Peterson, Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Von Miller...those were "elite prospects" coming out.

Most of the top guys in this year's draft are in the Aldon Smith, Tyron Smith, BJ Raji mold of prospects who will go top ten but aren't elite and are upside projections.

Iamcanadian
04-19-2013, 12:58 PM
I would certainly put Ansah up there in the top tier, he is a possible top 5 pick...and Mingo is a top 10 lock as well. Idk, maybe your use of the word elite is more lax than mine. Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Marcel Dareus, Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Eric Berry, Patrick Peterson, Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Von Miller...those were "elite prospects" coming out.

Most of the top guys in this year's draft are in the Aldon Smith, Tyron Smith, BJ Raji mold of prospects who will go top ten but aren't elite and are upside projections.

I don't think Aldon or Tyron were considered elite prospects when they were drafted although San Fran and Dallas probably did, but they are well on their way to getting there. To be completely honest, I think there are only 5 truly elite prospects in this year's draft, Joeckel, Fisher, Warmack, Cooper and Milliner and I feel confident they will all be All Pro Players at some point in their careers, the other 4 are in the Aldon and Tyron category, with a fairly decent chance to get there.

It is just my opinion, but I really doubt Ansah will go top 10, never mind top 5. I'll be shocked if he does considering he was totally dominated at the Senior Bowl practices. Yes, he was sensational in the game but the rules of a college All Star game strictly limit the offensive style you are permitted to use, which really suits athletic ability over technique, but he'll never see that style employed in the pros, there he will need refined technique to be effective and that is going to take years to develop.

I'd say Mingo has a chance for the top 10 but isn't yet the prospect that my top 9 are. His game needs a lot of work and he could even slip a bit on draft day. I did after all, put him at 12 on my board, so you know I like him quite a bit, but there are simply more question marks about his overall game than my top 9 posses.

RaiderNation
04-22-2013, 02:13 AM
Chances you guys take Geno at 6?

BuckeyeDan17
04-22-2013, 11:53 AM
snowball's chance in hell

they're going to go defense; OR, they'll go full ****** and take Manuel instead

Brown Leader
04-22-2013, 03:19 PM
Slim. Unless they're buying the McNabb comparison. I think he's better than Weeden so I wouldn't be completely upset if it happened.

Ravens1991
04-24-2013, 09:37 AM
how is Greg Little developing for you guys?

Brown Leader
04-24-2013, 09:59 AM
Little has been somewhat of a train wreck as a starting WR up until the last 7 to 8 games of last season. He wasn't targeted as much but he was finally consistently catching the ball and contributing to the offense. Unless he can start using his talent to consistently grab balls in traffic I think he goes the way of Arrelious Benn. I think they could help his confidence by getting him the ball more in creative ways, like carries out the backfield and reverses/screens.

Iamcanadian
04-24-2013, 11:53 AM
I don't think there is a team in this draft that anybody can be more than 80% sure of who they will take. I'm expecting some real shockers on draft day and Cleveland is no exception.

The only thing I'm certain of is that the 3 LT's are the best prospects in this year's draft and could all be gone 1-3 although trades may make it possible.

keylime_5
04-24-2013, 12:40 PM
Absolutely. Especially this year because there is no elite talent so the guy who goes 20th is probably not much worse than the guy going top 5, if at all. I wouldn't say the LTs are the best prospects, but they are the safest and they will be in the highest demand, which is why they will be gone in the top 6 picks, probably top 4 or 5 even.

Brown Leader
07-09-2013, 11:46 AM
Good team assessment heading into training camp...
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/shutdown-countdown-cleveland-browns-still-rebuilding-defense-could-143042061.html

But I'd go..

Best offseason acquisition:
Desmond Bryant

Biggest hole on the roster:
The receiving/TE corps.

Position in flux:
Quarterback.

Player you might not have heard of yet, but will soon:
I'd go Craig Robertson.

The player who could swing this teamís season one way or another:
I'm going with Josh Gordon. If he plays like a pro bowl WR it'll open up the offense regardless of who's playing QB.

BuckeyeDan17
07-20-2013, 01:20 PM
Josh Gordon's under incredibly thin ice now.

Cudders
07-21-2013, 06:10 PM
Josh Gordon's under incredibly thin ice now.

Itís unfortunate.

The kid is blessed with a lot of natural talent. Receivers with his combination of height, weight, and speed donít come around often. Even digressing from triangle numbers, he poses threats as a leaper. When examining the total package, Gordon profiles as a coverage-changing receiver with a wide catching radius. Thatís just what the Browns need. But, at this point, the past doesnít seem to have motivated change for the present. The hope is the threat of a season-long suspension motivates Gordon to make the change, but it wouldnít surprise me if heís busted again. This is his fifth failed drug test since October 2010. His collegiate and NFL careers have been jeopardized before and it hasnít led to modified behavior. Right now, Iím not sure how much favor and trust heís won with the organization. (And, to be clear, Iím not insinuating that Gordon is a ďbadĒ person. As far as I know, heís non-violent and well-liked. From an NFL asset standpoint though, heís unreliable. Itís tough to include an unreliable asset in long-term plans. A talented, suspended receiver is still a useless one.)

Outside of Gordon, Iím excited to see the offense this season. Iím not expecting world-beaters in the slightest, but there are some intriguing things to monitor. What progress Weeden has or hasnít made. How Trent rebounds from rookie injuries. What staples Chud and Norv build around. What the offensive staff implements in an effort to become an efficient red zone offense.

keylime_5
07-21-2013, 06:33 PM
The last thing we need is another disappointing disaster like Josh Gordon flaming out of the league due to drug or legal stuff. Haven't we had enough bad luck with the few promising young players we get?

BuckeyeDan17
07-21-2013, 07:44 PM
Itís unfortunate.

The kid is blessed with a lot of natural talent. Receivers with his combination of height, weight, and speed donít come around often. Even digressing from triangle numbers, he poses threats as a leaper. When examining the total package, Gordon profiles as a coverage-changing receiver with a wide catching radius. Thatís just what the Browns need. But, at this point, the past doesnít seem to have motivated change for the present. The hope is the threat of a season-long suspension motivates Gordon to make the change, but it wouldnít surprise me if heís busted again. This is his fifth failed drug test since October 2010. His collegiate and NFL careers have been jeopardized before and it hasnít led to modified behavior. Right now, Iím not sure how much favor and trust heís won with the organization. (And, to be clear, Iím not insinuating that Gordon is a ďbadĒ person. As far as I know, heís non-violent and well-liked. From an NFL asset standpoint though, heís unreliable. Itís tough to include an unreliable asset in long-term plans. A talented, suspended receiver is still a useless one.)

Outside of Gordon, Iím excited to see the offense this season. Iím not expecting world-beaters in the slightest, but there are some intriguing things to monitor. What progress Weeden has or hasnít made. How Trent rebounds from rookie injuries. What staples Chud and Norv build around. What the offensive staff implements in an effort to become an efficient red zone offense.

I'm curious about the offense myself. More specifically, I'm looking for better interior run blocking. It was painful to watch Lav and Pinky essentially stand in front of their man for as long as they could the snap of the ball. There has to be push this season inside or Trent's YPC will continue to be underwhelming. I'm also a bit disappointed it wasn't addressed in an earlier round but they're going to have to work with what they have.

Another curiosity: Does Greg Little continue to build off of his second half improvements or does he stagnate? I'm looking to see if the maximized concentration is there on a consistent basis or Norv may become reluctant to go his way if the dropped passes become a predictable theme.

I'm on a tablet so I can't go much further without my thumbs becoming annoyed but I would say those are some important questions for me offensively. I'm not optimistic about Weeden. Sure, his arm strength is adequate but his decision making is what borderline terrifies me most about the season: Has he spent the offseason studying defensive tendencies and disguises? Can he be more disciplined with his downfield throws? Can he be more decisive while in the pocket? This is unquestionably his last season to show the organization he can make this team competitive but I have serious doubt. Perhaps Norv can bring out the best in him but Turner cannnot make the decisions on the field for him.

Brown Leader
07-21-2013, 10:41 PM
I think analyzing the run blocking is tricky. Play calling, decisiveness & burst of the runner, good run defenses, TE/FB blocking abilities, lack of credible receiving threats...it all plays a part. I tend to lean more toward the thinking that the run blocking on the line wasn't as bad as it appeared at times.

I feel like I already know who Little is. I'll be surprised if his play improves substantially. Gordon, Benjamin and Bess; I'm more excited about them. And Cameron is going to disappoint imo-I just don't see it there.

One of the moves I've heard about I'm really high on. Ogbonn to FB. If that sticks it's a great fit in the new offense.

Going back over a few full games from last year I'm actually pretty excited about Weeden. He did a lot of good things last year without a running game or credible receivers.

Gordon is kinda reminding me of Dez Bryant, as far as the raw ability married to off field concerns. Probably bound to be a little hiccup at some point. Hopefully this is the extent of it and he stays vigilant.

keylime_5
07-23-2013, 03:33 PM
I think if we had an elite QB like Manning or Brady or Brees or Rodgers then guys like Gordon, Little, Bess, and Cameron would look like stars. Look what happened to Thomas, Decker, etc. in Denver when they signed Peyton. I think we'll get a solid year from all of our pass catchers, but if Weeden is crappy then they won't look as good as they really are. Honestly the thing I'm worried about with Cameron are him staying healthy and him potentially dropping the ball a lot like Evan Moore used to do.

Brown Leader
07-24-2013, 04:40 PM
I think Weeden played better than either Little or Gordon last year.

keylime_5
07-26-2013, 03:08 AM
I think if you had Peyton Manning throwing to Gordon and Little they would look like pro bowlers. If you had Weeden throwing to Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson he still would look kinda meh.

Cudders
08-06-2013, 04:38 AM
Not too long before our first preseason game against the Rams. I donít expect to see much from the first-team offense or defense, but Iím still excited to watch some of the deeper roster battles in an in-game setting.

QB: I would be surprised if Weeden takes more than a series or two. Doubt thereís much deviation from the script, but I hope heís making quicker decisions and moving his feet better. Campbell to run with the second unit and Hoyer to close the game. Donít expect that to change throughout preseason. Hoyer has never impressed me and Campbell is already a very capable bullpen quarterback.

RB: I donít think weíll see Trent in uniform. Comments from Chud seem to allude to holding him out and saving him for September after his recent shin problems. The move makes perfect sense as a precaution, but itís frustrating that Richardson was drafted to be a bell-cow back and he hasnít been able to get off the trainerís table. Hardestyís still recovering from a strained hamstring, so I wouldnít be shocked if he doesnít get much run either. Great chance to evaluate the depth.

FB: Iím not expecting to see a ton of fullback wrinkles in the very first preseason game, but Iím so glad Ogbonnaya unseated Marecic from the top of the depth chart. Ogbonnaya stands to be better in every conceivable way. I wouldnít even hate it if Marecic lost additional reps to Smelley.

WR: Gordon, Little, Bess, and Benjamin are all safe. That means thereís one or two spots up for grabs. David Nelson was thought to be a good bet for the final roster, but his knee is flaring again. From what Iíve heard, Norwood has been the most consistent performer of the leftovers.

TE: One of the ugliest positions on the roster. Cameron has the upside, but hasnít been too impressive in camp, I guess. Curious to see Barnridge. Heard heís been a steadier presence than Cameron. If heís a better blocker and a reliable outlet over the course of the next few weeks, I wouldnít hesitate to give him the starting job.

OL: The swing tackle and backup center are to be determined, but guard is a free-for-all after Lauvao rolled his ankle and had to be carted off. I think itís safe to pencil Greco into left guard, but right guard and the backup spots are unsettled. Pinkstonís been getting reps at both left and right guard in camp, so it seems like heíll get the first crack at the gig. Hopefully Gilkey steps up.

DL: The front seems quite fluid still. From what Iíve read, a lot of people are getting looks inside and outside in base and sub-packages. Interested to see what looks Horton shows. Heard Sanford has been one of the surprises of camp and one of the scrappiest linemen out there. Can do a lot worse than those kind of linemen as depth.

LB: I think itís safe to call these races, barring injuries. The trio of Kruger, Sheard, and Mingo will rotate at outside linebacker and see significant snaps. Jackson and Robertson will pair together inside. Carder, Fort, and JMJ will fight for their places.

DB: We need Haden to stay healthy. Itís absolutely imperative. Beyond him, the rest of the secondary looks very shaky and young. Right now, reports seem to suggest Owens opposite Haden and Skrine slotted in as the nickel corner with McFadden relegated to six DB sets. The safeties are quite unproven. I guess Gipsonís been getting most of the reps at free with Bademosi spotting him. Bademosi was also listed as Wardís backup in the first depth chart and I read that undrafted rookie Josh Aubrey has turned some heads as a fill-in at strong, too.

ST: As far as kickers and punters go, those will shake themselves out. Whoever makes kicks makes the team. As return specialists, Iíd give Benjamin and Skrine the first opportunities.

Brown Leader
08-07-2013, 01:41 PM
Deadspin: Why Your Team Sucks 2013: Cleveland Browns (http://deadspin.com/why-your-team-sucks-2013-cleveland-browns-1052726045?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)

/8DYje57V_BY

Brown Leader
08-07-2013, 02:00 PM
I actually expect us to win most of these preseason games because Campbell and Hoyer are experienced guys and should show well against 2nd/3rd teamers.

I'm almost as excited to get a look at the Rams, frankly. The WVU duo and RB Richardson on offense and Ogletree, Mcdonald with Brockers and Quinn on defense.

At RB, I'm curious to see if the Sproles -Dion Lewis comparisons are legit.

Ready to get a look at Bademosi at S. Excelled at special teams last year and now stepping up competing to start. Makes me fondly remember Bodden.

Also be looking closely at DE Bryant in his new role, if he plays.

Offensively...there's a small part of Weeden/Gordon that is reminiscent of Stafford/Johnson. I'm anxious to see if there are any signs they're heading that way.

Cudders
09-11-2013, 04:04 AM
SoÖ

From a schematic perspective, I liked a lot of what I saw. Iím still confident the skeleton of success is in-place. First and foremost, I thought the defensive effort was admirable. For three quarters, the Browns defense did an outstanding job of keeping the team in the game despite a few turnovers and a couple short fields. Considering the absence of Rubin, the front seven was awesome. I think their performance against Miamiís rushing attack is somewhat of an outlier, but I expect this team to be much stouter and tougher. Gaining traction in the ground game wonít be simple. I liked some of the blitz packages. Intrigued to see where Mingo fits into the pressure scheme once he returns from his bruised lung. Overall, the defense bottled Dolphin backs and forced Tannehill to beat us. And he did. He was patient, took what the defense gave him, and then made a handful of great anticipation throws when the opportunities presented themselves. If there are weaknesses to glean from Week 1, itís that the Browns might need three new starters in the defensive backfield. Skrine is not an NFL starter. He has NFL tools, but it just isnít clicking. Heís still getting lost and then turning into one of the grabbiest corners in the league. I know itís a new defense Ė and heíll get some time to acclimate and develop in the new scheme Ė but Iíd feel more comfortable with him as a sub-package corner at this point. Gipson is still unproven. Ward is a limited free agent-to-be. His asking price will determine his future with the Browns.

On offense, I was quite pleased to see the pistol formation. The belief that a mobile quarterback is required to run the pistol is one of the biggest casual misnomers in football. The pistol is a formational compromise. It gives greater depth to the quarterback without sacrificing power running concepts. In fact, I wouldnít mind seeing more of the pistol and diamond. I thought the running game looked most dangerous out of a full house backfield.

That said, the offense was complete garbage.

For starters, the offensive line was horrendous. Iíve moaned about the usage of shield blockers in the past, but those wouldíve been upgrades last week. I donít see how Oneil Cousins holds onto his job. That was one of the most dreadful performances Iíve ever seen from someone in the NFL. He was getting beat inside. He was getting beat outside. He was getting nowhere on pulls. He was getting flags thrown on him all afternoon. It was tough to watch. Schwartz had a rough outing as well, but I can stomach that better. He was often stranded against one of the best pass rushers in the NFL in Cameron Wake. The Browns have put a bunch of bad tape together in recent seasons. I canít recall a worse one from a protection perspective though.

The offensive lineís disastrous performance trickled down to the running game, too. There wasnít much available over the right side of the line. His blockers killed his momentum and the Dolphins often had a cage waiting. Yes, Trent could have better vision in certain situations, but a runner canít stop his guard from being blown back into him at the snap. Our right side couldnít even hold the line of scrimmage on a consistent basis. Forget moving it. We spent valuable resources on Richardson. If we want to maximize that value, we need to invest in a mover or two. For now, I think itís two-pronged. One, running the ball from some of the formations that Norv showed on the first two drives. Two, designing offense that gets Trent in space.

As far as Weeden goes, I admire his competitiveness and toughness. But I was, again, underwhelmed with him as a quarterback. The game still appears too fast for him. Even when he had time to throw, he bird-dogged and dragged through progressions. The first interception wasnít excusable. He read single-high against two deep routes and locked onto Benjamin from the snap and forced the throw. No head movement or manipulation. Then he threw the ball toward the sideline against a corner that had outside position on his 5-10, 170 lbs. receiver. Benjamin isnít fighting across a much bigger corner to get to that ball. You have to know that Benjamin isnít Gordon. Given the position of the corner, and the inside position of the rotating centerfielder, that ball needs to be thrown where Benjamin runs under it or no one gets to it. And I wouldnít absolve him of all blame for the other interceptions either. His fastball floated. Both passes were catchable, sure, but both throws could have been better, too.

In terms of receivers, I was pleased with Jordan Cameronís emergence. Weíve talked about Chud and Norvís desire to attack defenses with tight ends. Cameron made some acrobatic catches and created nice separation, so hereís hoping he continues to progress as a receiver. Greg Littleís game was Greg Little in a microcosm. He made a nice catch on the opening drive on a slant with Brent Grimes challenging him, then the concentration issues crept back up. Benjamin is a return specialist. We need Gordon. Heís the coverage-changer on the outside. Norv needs those receivers to keep the intermediate and deep parts of his gameplan firing.

BuckeyeDan17
09-11-2013, 05:47 PM
Yeah.

I don't understand how Chud can immediately declare Cousins will continue to start. I'm genuinely wondering if it can get any worse than him. I never thought I would miss Pinky or Lava. I think Schwartz is actually capable of bouncing back from a poor performance. So, unless Chud gets fed up with Trent fighting to the death for two yards on first down, we're going to continue to witness the worst starter on an offensive line in the NFL.

And as far as Weeden, he's absolutely clueless against the blitz. I understand his interior line is putrid but still, even when we would hold off a blitz he still fails to find open receivers. I just don't think he has it, like at all. Unless you really think it's lack of acclimation to the scheme. He's hard to watch though.

I really like Desmond Bryant, by the way.

Cudders
09-12-2013, 06:21 AM
Yeah, I donít think the offense is hindering his development or holding him back.

This scheme suits Weedenís skill set. I think thatís part of the reason coaches and management didnít pull the trigger on E.J. Manuel at six. Weeden has arm talent. He can make all of the deep and intermediate throws in this offense. At this point, I just think heís too much of a one-read quarterback. When Weeden hits the top of his drop and his first read is open, heís capable of ripping it and throwing strikes. That said, he still hasnít shown heís capable of being fluid through his progressions. Sure, some of that can be attributed to being unfamiliar with Chud and Norvís offense, but I trust that Turner didnít ask him to process an unreasonable amount. It was the first game of his sophomore season and heís learning his second scheme in sixteen months. I expect some improvement in that area. There are other aspects of Weedenís quarterbacking that are lacking though.

To begin with, Tannehill threw with much better anticipation. And this is someone who came into the NFL as an inexperienced collegiate signal-caller and a member of the same draft class. Yet heís come quite far in terms of head movement and validating safeties. Heís more natural than Weeden. Tannehill had a handful of nice passes where he manipulated defenders or threw his receiver open. Weeden struggled in that area.

On back-to-back snaps on the first series of the first quarter, Weeden stared down his receiver and made a pair of errors. On second down, the Browns came out in a closed two-tight end set to the field side. Little was split out wide. Cameron was inside, Barnridge was outside. The Dolphins were in a 4-3 Under with a single-high shell. At the snap, Little ran a stick comeback route. Cameron pressed his vertical route outside before cutting back into the seam. Barnridge released into the left flat with the strong-side linebacker. For all intents and purposes, Barnridge is a covered check-down, leaving Little and Cameron. Little broke toward the sideline with Patterson in coverage. Cameron took Ellerbe toward the sideline before breaking past him when the MIKE peaked into the backfield. Weeden decided to throw it to Little. Because Weeden stared him down, the decision resulted in a pass breakup from Patterson, but it couldíve been much worse. You canít be late when throwing outside in the NFL. (As an aside, Cameron broke free of his coverage and gave Weeden a deeper, more open target that he neglected.)

The next snap was the first interception. Another single-high, robber-esque look. The offensive call included two deep routes. Benjamin on one side, Little on the other. Weeden snapped the ball and locked on Benjamin this time. He threw it toward the sideline (because of the rotating centerfielder, if I had to guess) when Benjaminís man had outside position on him. The result was an interception. Weeden has to understand the situation. Benjamin is 5-10, 170 lbs. Nolan Carroll is 6-1, 205 lbs. Benjamin isnít in a great position to fight for that ball. If heís going to stare the receiver down, that ball needs to be thrown where Benjamin runs under it or no one does.

That said, if Weeden wouldíve looked off the centerfielder, he wouldíve created some room for himself to throw that ball to Benjamin inside. Freezing safeties in the middle of the field is a critical component of NFL quarterbacking. Trust the pre-snap information. It is one-on-one coverage on the outside. Thatís a shot chance. So take advantage of it. Donít leave points on the field. Use some head movement and widen the throwing window. That isnít a scheme issue. Thatís a positional issue.

There are other examples, but Iím ranting again. Thereís just nuances that I donít see Weeden mastering (or even improving). And his game under pressure does still leave a lot to be desired, too.

Raiderz4Life
09-13-2013, 05:02 PM
How did McFadden look?

I hope he pans out and becomes at least a good nickel. I played with him in HS and he was pretty cool.

Cudders
09-14-2013, 03:01 AM
How did McFadden look?

I hope he pans out and becomes at least a good nickel. I played with him in HS and he was pretty cool.

McFadden suited up, but I donít think he registered a defensive snap. Haden, Owens, and Skrine were the three cornerbacks the Browns used. McFadden was relegated to special team duties. He made a solo tackle as part of the coverage unit though.

McFadden is in a tough position. He missed the first two preseason games and then struggled for stretches of the next two. His limited reps affected him, I think. Heís experiencing the expected growing pains of a rookie cornerback. Now that the grind of the regular season has started, heís facing an uphill battle to break into the group above him. Barring injuries, I would be somewhat surprised if he even cracked the rotation before Week 6 or so. Although, Skrine was quite undisciplined in Week 1. If heís beaten and/or flagged at the same rate in the next few games, the coaching staff might just give McFadden a chance to show what he can do. That depends on how McFadden performs in positional meetings and practice. I trust that Horton will handle his development in an appropriate manner.

Brown Leader
09-14-2013, 10:11 AM
Finally got a chance to rewatch and breakdown the first game.

It's a mixed bag with BW. Two of the three picks were not good throws. The first pick I give him a pass on because he was being hit by a free blitzer. I think that made the pass shorter than intended for TB and forced him to try and fight Carroll for the ball. If he's not hit I think he lays it out more for TB to try and run under it.

The 2nd pick was not as much a terrible throw but a terrible decision. 3rd and 2 and he rifles a pass a bit high to Little on a crosser who's still a yard or so from the 1st while Bess... is running an opposite crosser and is WIDE open for easily a 10+yd gain. Even with great placement on the ball to Little it's not a given he can get the first. If his defender, who's right behind, makes a solid tackle, it's 50-50 whether he could've stretch for a 1st. Bess would have gotten a big chunk.

3rd pick is also just a terribly placed throw. Rifled high and slightly behind Cameron.

But he did overcome those first half picks and made his best throw of the game on the most decisive possession of the game, only for TB to drop it. Down 13 - 10 with about 12 left in the 4th, Browns driving for a go ahead score, he makes a beautiful 20yd+ pass to Benjamin who can't hold on. Huge play. He then can't hit Trent on a great called screen that would have gotten a huge chunk. Wake gets great pressure and forces BW to throw early but he still should have been able to dump it to a wide open Trent behind his blocker. Dolphins take over and march down to go up 20-10 with under 4.00 left.

I did think there were some improvements in Weeden's game, though. I thought he moved better and threw under pressure slightly better then much of last season. Although, late in the 4th he starting getting the ball out late and he was hit while throwing on too many passes. But a good amount of that was on the Dolphins pressure and WRs not opening up sooner. His touch looked improved on a few throws.

After rewatching, I don't think the OL performed as bad as I thought initially. Most of the sacks were coverage sacks and heavy pressure because BW wasn't seeing anyone open. Schwartz had some wiffs but he'll play better. As will Thomas and Greco. Also don't think enough credit is going to the Dolphins line. They've been good and are poised to have an outstanding year. Cousins was bad, yes, and I'd like to see them work the rookie in there as well.

Most impressive was Cameron. He already looks better then a Greg Olsen. Curious to see if he can sustain that level of play and how defenses will start to play him.

Defensively they were impressive, save the decisive drive they gave up I mentioned earlier. But much of that was on Hartline, who eat up Owens on that drive. I've got a different take on Screen. I think he's steadily improving. His pi late was with Mia already in the red zone and likely prevented a TD pass. I'll take that. His TD he gave up to Hartline wasn't bad coverage-just a very well thrown ball. He plays bigger than his size as a tackler and he's quick and fast. His weakness is his size and he's leaning what he can can get away with to compensate.

Raiderz4Life
09-14-2013, 04:50 PM
McFadden suited up, but I donít think he registered a defensive snap. Haden, Owens, and Skrine were the three cornerbacks the Browns used. McFadden was relegated to special team duties. He made a solo tackle as part of the coverage unit though.

McFadden is in a tough position. He missed the first two preseason games and then struggled for stretches of the next two. His limited reps affected him, I think. Heís experiencing the expected growing pains of a rookie cornerback. Now that the grind of the regular season has started, heís facing an uphill battle to break into the group above him. Barring injuries, I would be somewhat surprised if he even cracked the rotation before Week 6 or so. Although, Skrine was quite undisciplined in Week 1. If heís beaten and/or flagged at the same rate in the next few games, the coaching staff might just give McFadden a chance to show what he can do. That depends on how McFadden performs in positional meetings and practice. I trust that Horton will handle his development in an appropriate manner.
Sounds like a bit if a rough start but I'm sure he'll be solid.

TimD
09-18-2013, 10:22 PM
Hey guys. What's the consensus on Bobby Rainey? I picked him up in fantasy. After watching his W. Kentucky highlights, I think he has the potential to be a solid NFL running back. What do you all think?

Brown Leader
09-18-2013, 11:04 PM
Haven't seen him other than a few kick returns so I have no idea. I'm not sure he even knows the offense yet.

Iamcanadian
09-20-2013, 10:09 AM
Looks like we flipped one bad owner for another.

Cudders
09-22-2013, 11:50 AM
So Josh Gordon is on the block according to Adam SchefterÖ

I just donít know. Trading Trent was quite frustrating from a fan perspective, but there were latent sporting concerns. If John Settle didnít believe Trent was capable of developing better vision and/or the medical staff expressed concern about lingering injuries, then dealing him wasnít a disaster. A first-round choice isnít bad compensation for a running back. More so if the entire management team feels pessimistic about their long-term prospectus. Even if fans tend to overrate the return of draft picks. I donít know what compelled the Browns to make that trade, or the Colts for that matter, but it was possible to piece together some sense of it.

Short of doing enough drugs to kill Willie Nelson and making no effort to hide it, I donít understand their desire to deal Gordon. At all. Weíre talking about a 6-3, 225 lbs. receiver with legit 4.4 speed and a vertical jump over 35 inches. Those donít grow on trees. And weíve got one. On a team thatís starving for more offensive weapons. Plus, itís not like Gordon was unproductive. He posted 50/800/5 as a rookie. Receiver is one of the toughest spots to make an immediate impact because an NFL wide out has to be much sharper in the subtleties of the position than their college counterparts. Yet Gordon looked promising after knocking off the rust.

If true, itís clear that the Browns are open to adopting a slash-and-burn approach. Iím just not sure it was required.

keylime_5
09-22-2013, 06:22 PM
Keep Gordon. He's gonna be one of the best in the game before long. Cameron is a stud receiving TE too. Patch up that O-Line and find a long term franchise QB and we'll be on track. You can easily find a good starting runningback in the middle round or free agency.

Brown Leader
10-01-2013, 08:07 PM
I think analyzing the run blocking is tricky. Play calling, decisiveness & burst of the runner, good run defenses, TE/FB blocking abilities, lack of credible receiving threats...it all plays a part. I tend to lean more toward the thinking that the run blocking on the line wasn't as bad as it appeared at times.

I feel like I already know who Little is. I'll be surprised if his play improves substantially. Gordon, Benjamin and Bess; I'm more excited about them. And Cameron is going to disappoint imo-I just don't see it there.

One of the moves I've heard about I'm really high on. Ogbonn to FB. If that sticks it's a great fit in the new offense.

Going back over a few full games from last year I'm actually pretty excited about Weeden. He did a lot of good things last year without a running game or credible receivers.

Gordon is kinda reminding me of Dez Bryant, as far as the raw ability married to off field concerns. Probably bound to be a little hiccup at some point. Hopefully this is the extent of it and he stays vigilant.

That crow tastes good.

AJP19
10-14-2013, 12:15 PM
I think a few teams would be happy if you guys didn't re-sign Alex Mack. Is there much chance of that happening? Any word on if a deal is being worked on?

And how good is he?

Brown Leader
10-16-2013, 02:09 PM
I think a few teams would be happy if you guys didn't re-sign Alex Mack. Is there much chance of that happening? Any word on if a deal is being worked on?

And how good is he?

I think it's very possible he's not resigned. I'd say 50/50 right now.
There's plenty of cap so it makes sense unless he's asking for a ton.
In short, he's solid not great. I think he's a better pass protector than run blocker.

Brown Leader
10-21-2013, 04:37 PM
What a Gabbert-esque performance by Weeden against the Packers. He's regressing, from not great to downright awful.

I think the Hoyer situation has really taken it out of him. It's clear to everyone, including him, that the team would be better if the QB play was better. The absolute nail for me was seeing him attempt another crazy shovel pass for the second straight week. The game is too fast for him. It's the only reasonable explanation why a seemingly smart guy makes yet another play like that in the heat of the moment. The pressure is mounting on him, on field and in the locker room, and it's instinctual panic.

I wasn't a fan of his coming out but, besides the age, which has nothing to do with how he's playing right now, BW had a lot of what teams want to see. Big arm, stature, accuracy, production, big wins, and was called a better athlete than he was given credit for.

I think his struggles emphasize the importance of speed in looking at QB prospects and why it's so hard to evaluate. Not running or foot speed but the ability to quickly process what's happening, anticipate and react. It's the key difference from college to pros- the speed the game.

The play on this week's MNF that injured Reggie Wayne demonstrates. Even a once in a lifetime prospect like Luck struggled on that play to quickly process and anticipate what was happening under heavy pressure in a crucial moment in a big game. He got the pass out but well under thrown and Wayne sprained his knee trying to slow and scoop it as his foot stuck. Not a terrible play by Luck but it shows just how fast a pro QB has to be able to execute in certain situations.

Hitting certain bench marks of arm strength/footwork/delivery/accuracy is necessary but after that, it's will this guy be able to speed up his processing and anticipation of what's happening.

Considering the Browns are 99% likely to draft one....
Of the potential high round QBs that might be available in April, which do you think will be able to process and anticipate in the pros best?

Teddy Bridgewater
John Manziel
Marcus Mariota
Brett Hundley
Tahj Boyd
Zach Mettenberger
Blake Bortles
David Carr
Sean Mannion

Cudders
10-23-2013, 12:38 AM
Yeah, Weeden is toast. Barring an unprecedented turnaround, heís out of a job in Cleveland. Even as a backup. I just donít see how the organization keeps him in their plans. Itís clear the locker room doesnít have much confidence in him. Heís been, as noted, Gabbert-esque. The mental side of his game is crippling. His decision-making is glacial. He freezes throughout his progressions and then melts when the heat comes. The two things that Weeden needed to speed up in the off-season were his feet and his mind. He hasnít. He is slower than ever. He is missing opportunities. He is throwing an inaccurate ball. So itís time to turn the page on another quarterback. (To be quite honest, I would consider benching him for Campbell. Even though I doubt Campbell is much better, Iíve seen enough of Weeden to know heís not part of the solution. That said, it seems Weeden is getting the starting nod for Week 8. That Chiefs defense must be licking their chops in the film room. I wouldnít want to be Norv Turner right now. Weíre not running the ball against them in an efficient manner. Perhaps Benjaminís home run potential earns him some designed touches. An end-around, some tunnel screens, a free release into space, etc. Past that, Gordon and Cameron have inferior matchups. Which means Weeden just might ignore them and neglect taking shots altogether. Ugh. The Browns O vs. the Chiefs D has the ingredients of a destruction.)

Looking forward, I wasnít blown away by Hoyer, but he played better than I expected and energized the offense. The difference between Hoyer and Weeden in terms of decisiveness is night and day. Thatís why I would gladly pencil Hoyer into a competition for the starting job upon his return from the knee injury. I like his competitive package and he will have another off-season in the offense. Letís see what he can do.

I agree that weíre almost guaranteed to take a quarterback in the draft though. First and foremost, I believe itís been the front officeís vision since the last draft. We traded out of spots to stockpile picks in 2014. We traded Trent Richardson for another first-round pick. Weíre still dangling Josh Gordon and might get another second-round pick out of that. We want ammo to acquire and/or surround our chosen quarterback with handpicked pieces. Second, even with the brief emergence of Hoyer, I believe an extra body doesnít hurt the quarterback situation. Liking Hoyer doesnít mean you pass on a prospect you like. You take the prospect and enter next season with both passers in the fold. It doubles the possibility of stabilizing a chronically unstable position.

The profile of the desired quarterback intrigues me. We can be confident of two things. One, we had E.J. Manuel atop our quarterback rankings in 2013. Two, Chud introduced some zone-read concepts with Cam Newton in 2011. A full season before RGIII, Kaepernick, and Wilson popularized them. How fascinated is Chud with that offensive wrinkle? Is it the determining factor between, for example, Marcus Mariota and Zach Mettenberger? Is size an important component in Chudís concept of a zone-read quarterback? Both Newton and Manuel have much bigger frames than Manziel and Mariota. I havenít watched much of those draft-eligible quarterbacks, but those preferences will dictate quite a bit, and we donít know much at this point.

STsACE
10-23-2013, 04:49 PM
Considering the Browns are 99% likely to draft one....
Of the potential high round QBs that might be available in April, which do you think will be able to process and anticipate in the pros best?

Teddy Bridgewater - I like him the most (mostly due to I've seen him more than the other prospects, but not everygame) The games I did see, he looked as if he could read Ds pre-snap and was making decisive throws. I haven't seen him up against any top defenses, so question is, is he only good because of inferior competition or is his good. Maybe the biggest question that I've heard on him, is he a leader?

John Manziel - I don't like him, period. He just seems like a douche with his game antics and immaturity. Combined with his smaller stature, I don't want him

Marcus Mariota - I'm a bit intrigued by MM. Only seen 1 game this year, but he was impressive. Seemed to have quick release, strong arm and definately has speed to burn. I do question his touch and accuracy into tight windows he'd see in the NFL as his WRs seemed to not have anyone within 5 yds of them when they caught the ball, something he'll only see maybe 2x's a game in the pros if he's lucky.
after last nights game I'm wandering if I'm the only one seeing the kinda shot put delivery Mariota has. He doesn't seem to have that 3/4 or overhead delivery that you'd look for that won't get batted down at LOS. It's not something I really paid attention to before, but last night it just seemed every pass he made it was there.

Brett Hundley - Can't say anything on him as I haven't seen him play this year yet.
After last night, he needs to stay in school another year, he needs it. He just didn't seem like he was trusting himself or even the OC trusting in him as he didn't throw with conviction and they ran alot

Tahj Boyd - I'd be okay with Boyd, but more of an okay if he was a late 2nd day or 3rd day pick. He seems to have the tools you look for but doesn't step it up when needed. Could've improved from last year making a bid to be top QB taken, but doesn't seem to be interested in that. Work ethic, maybe?

Zach Mettenberger - Saw the game against Georgia, but not much else besides some channel flip backs. Having Cameron as his coordinator makes him interesting. Strong, strong arm, great size and deceptive speed for that size. Made some really nice throws, but also had a few that got away. I'm definately looking forward to seeing another game or two from his this year, but right now I'd say he's worth looking at in the 2nd, mostly from a tools standpoint

Blake Bortles - Same as Hundley, haven't seen him play

David Carr - Saw him once this year, not overly impressive, but good enough to be on the radar for QBs. Seemed like he'd be alright as a 3rd day pick for now. Gonna try to see some more of him though.

Sean Mannion - Big arm, tall, likes to throw downfield.....ewwww sounds like DA:freakout:.................I kid. Only one game I've seen so I'd have to see some more. Later round Consideration until I see more, the DA from same school thing sticks to my mind for some reason. Unfair, I know, but I'm admitting it

I've got limited viewing on most QBs so I'm gonna stick with what I've seen and from most of what I'm hearing.

Brigdewater, Mariota and Mettenberger seem to be top 3 QBs that I'd take.

Bridewater, Mariota - Top 5

Mettenberger - 1st/2nd but will most likely go higher due to team need

All the other guys 2nd day on. Depending on how rest of season plays out and Draft order, we may end up liking one the 2nd day on guys more than the 1sties due to Draft spot. Even with the ammo of picks we have to trade up, I don't see anyone trading out of the top 2 spots unless it's someone like the Giants who don't need a QB.

But, once again we won just enough games to outdraft where we need to be for the top QB prospects, so we really need some help from the other 31 teams.

Edit: took Hundley out of top prospects, I just don't see it, he needs to go back for a year or even 2

vidae
10-27-2013, 04:00 PM
Good game guys. You're building a great D and you have the right man to lead it. Good luck and continued health the rest of the way.

keylime_5
10-28-2013, 11:33 AM
I want Bridgewater or Mariota. Very high chance those are the top 2 picks in the draft though :/

I could live with Mettenberger or Hundley. Don't want Tajh Boyd (future wasted pick) or Manziel (too small, not a pocket passer). I think we should sell out to get a top 2 pick though and get a QB. This is the year to do it. (actually 2012 was the year to do it, but let's not go there).

BuckeyeDan17
11-12-2013, 05:22 PM
Hey so our game has playoff implications.

Sup

Cudders
11-14-2013, 04:11 AM
Itís weird to read that in Week 11, but itís true. This is the franchiseís biggest game since Week 16 and 17 of 2007.

I love that weíre going to Cincinnati with some momentum and rest, but being on the road against a desperate divisional rival thatís undefeated at home and coming off two straight losses is somewhat sobering. This is a statement game for both teams. Weíve been a horrific road team over the past few seasons. That needs to change if this team wants to end its postseason drought. Four of the last seven games are on the road. Two more AFC North games and then a pair against the Patriots and the Jets. A division winner and a (current) Wild Card contender. And I donít think splitting them will suffice. Weíve still got Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, and Chicago at home. If we go 2-2 and 2-1, that leaves us at 8-8. Would .500 be enough in the AFC this season? That Jets matchup is massive though.

Digressing, I canít wait to see Haden v. Green again. If Haden can check him again, thatís a great starting point. It just opens our defensive options. Bernard scares me out of the backfield. A lot. Robertson has been inconsistent when isolated against electric, pass-catching backs this season. Reggie Bush killed us in the second half of the Lions game. Caught five balls for over 11 YPC with a touchdown and converted a back-breaking first late in the fourth. Four of the five were one-on-one against Robertson. An inside screen from the slot, a quick out from the slot, an angle route from the backfield, and a corner route from the backfield. His other catch was a bubble screen from a bunch formation. So Detroit got him the ball through a handful of different methods. We bottled Bernard better than Bush in the first Bengals game. Hereís hoping to do the same in the reverse meeting.

As for the offense, their scheming should be a little easier given Geno Atkinsí absence, so thereís that. He had 1.5 sacks, three quarterback hits, and generated nice gut pressure in Week 4.

BuckeyeDan17
11-18-2013, 07:25 AM
Well that was essentially the most maddening game I have watched in recent memory..

Cudders
11-21-2013, 04:46 AM
Some stats:

Dalton: 13/27, 93 YDS, 48.1 CMP%, 3.4 YPA, 3 TD, 2 INT, 3.7 QBR.
CIN Running Game: 31 CAR, 106 YDS, 3.4 YPC.
Green: 2 REC, 7 YDS, 5 TGTS.
CIN 3rd Down Efficiency: 1-for-14.

ÖAnd we got blown out. What a wasted defensive effort.

Just ridiculous. I agree, Dan. Maddening is the perfect word for it. That was a pathetic effort from the offense and specials. The second quarter performance was an absolute embarrassment. We couldnít get out of our own way.

I was most upset at the special team blunders. A partial punt block and then a full punt block to cap two of three possessions is inexcusable. Now, injuries forced the Browns to shuffle some of their personnel and put them in uncomfortable situations, but these were fundamental errors. Errors that high schoolers who have spent one session with special teams shouldnít make. On the tipped punt, Yount got lost in the slush, walled, and dumped two men on Gipson as the out-leveraged protector. Gipson picked the first man and the second, stunting man got through untouched. All right, fine.

The blocked punt was terrible though. Mingo was a turnstile on the right wing. He just gave his rusher a free lane and let him through untouched. Didnít even provide the slightest nudge. Cincinnati didnít disguise or overload. It was 8v8. Yet Mingo released. The protector rotated late, but the rusher had reached Lanningís spot.

And the offense didnít help. Campbell came down with a chronic case of indecisiveness and the offensive line was porous in pass protection. Not a good combination. And while the running game showed some signs of life on the first few series, the 31-point quarter erased that. To be quite honest, I donít know what exactly happened with Campbell. He was missing reads that he hit against the Chiefs and Ravens. Some credit goes to the Bengals defense, but he was painful to watch. Slow through progressions. Inaccurate. Just a poor game. Iím hoping he gets into an early groove against the Steelers. Recognizes coverage shells, finds quick-hitters, etc. Otherwise, we could have a crisis of confidence on our hands.

That said, Haden is a beast. Heís the best corner in the NFL right now and it isnít that close. His blend of competitiveness and coverage skills makes him downright dominant. He shut out A.J. Green. Heís a huge weapon for Horton. Dude deserves the contract thatís coming. Iím guessing itíll be something along the lines of a six-year, $100 million deal with between $40-50 million guaranteed. Normally those types of cap-altering contracts are reserved for superstar quarterbacks and elite pass rushers, but a shutdown commodity like Haden is both rare and ultra-valuable. To me, extending Haden is the top priority of the off-season.