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twotondawg
03-02-2007, 11:27 PM
Personally, I think that the defense is further along than the offense. Yes, we need a few young dlineman, and maybe a corner, but besides that we have plenty to get by. On offense we lack the three most important things, an offensive line, a running back, and a QB. I'm all for BPA in this draft, and if that means Peterson or Thomas then that's our guy. Also, I'm all for the trade down where i would love Quinn or Peterson, branch is solid no doubt, but seriously, do we need a richard seymour more than an LT or franchise QB? I don't think so. Also, i'm not a bush fan, he's too big to run like a fairy.

Well then the question is; Are you absolutely 100% positive that Peterson is LT(like) and Quinn is a franchise QB? I'm not so sure. If I was positive that we would have a terrible year next year and that he would come out; I would be all for living with Reuben and getting the next LT in McFadden.(but I have hope, and that may be looking too far ahead)

KBN570
03-03-2007, 08:28 AM
The Bucs wont move up, the player they want might be CJ and they know the odds of us taking him are low.


They'd probably trade if we leverage trading with another team and they risk having CJ taken ahead of their pick.

KBN570
03-03-2007, 08:38 AM
If the Eagles don't bring Donte Stallworth back, I'd really like to see him sign with us. He's a type of receiver we don't have, a really fast one. He'd help stretch defenses a bit, and he's a legitamite slot man so that we wouldn't need to have someone so unproven (Wilson), sitting at the 3 spot on the depth chart.


I love Donte's skills, but I can't remember if he's ever played a full season.

juve1325
03-03-2007, 09:07 AM
I was just wondering, with all these rumors that the lions might not take joe thomas now would we still take him if he fell to us. I really wouldn't mind because it would us to play shaffer at rt which he would be better at and then steinbach at one of the guard spots. If bently comes back next year we would have one hell of a line that hopefully we wouldn't have to worry about for a long time. And I wouldn't be worried about passing up adrien peterson because if we tank it this year, (which I kind of hope we do so that we can get cowher) we will have a chance at mcfadden who I think is gonna be the next L.T.

RoyHall#1
03-03-2007, 11:05 AM
Are you a Bills and browns fan or what? Better change your sig, clements signed with the 49ers. Also, I do not want Cowher, I don't think he is that good of a coach.

juve1325
03-03-2007, 11:10 AM
I am a browns fan,but somehow my sig got put as that. I never even had a sig. I tried to change it when I saw that but it won't let me. I'll keep trying

JoeMontainya
03-03-2007, 11:49 AM
Juve, if we moved Shaffer to RT, Steinach at guard, bentley and then drafted Thomas, we would have the most exspensive OL in NFL history.

Hail Browns
03-03-2007, 02:30 PM
I love Donte's skills, but I can't remember if he's ever played a full season.

I think he just did with Philly. However, I was just hearing that we wants like, 6 yrs. 40 mil. If he wants that much, nevermind. I would like to see us grab a WR who can stretch the field at some time.

jriles0522
03-03-2007, 02:39 PM
A few of you guys are really blowing my mind right now. How can you justify passing on Peterson, so that we can get McFadden next year? We are not gonna get him, and how do you know he's the second coming of anything. And for whoever told me we can't draft peterson because hes not the next LT or Quinn because hes not a franchise QB, how can you then say lets draft alan branch? How do you know he's the next richard seymour?

j_Tress
03-03-2007, 03:56 PM
Also, I do not want Cowher, I don't think he is that good of a coach.

how...

what...

what do i say to that...

it's false. i mean... are you kidding?

jriles0522
03-03-2007, 05:09 PM
how...

what...

what do i say to that...

it's false. i mean... are you kidding?


Cowher here woud be a godsend.

twotondawg
03-03-2007, 05:15 PM
A few of you guys are really blowing my mind right now. How can you justify passing on Peterson, so that we can get McFadden next year? We are not gonna get him, and how do you know he's the second coming of anything. And for whoever told me we can't draft peterson because hes not the next LT or Quinn because hes not a franchise QB, how can you then say lets draft alan branch? How do you know he's the next richard seymour?

Hang on, calm down. I'm not trying to justify passing on him just throwing ideas out there. Also, i'm not saying we can't/won't/shouldn't draft AP or Quinn. I just want a low(er) risk player. Quinn is shaky at times but I would be happy with taking him. AP has some injury issues, but, once again i'd be happy with him. I don't think we can go wrong with this draft. (Although knowing the Browns past history....)

JoeMontainya
03-03-2007, 06:27 PM
"Cowher here woud be a godsend."

Hes still under contract for 1 year with the Steelers, meaning if we got him next year we would have to compensate the Steelers with something.

Maybe Marty Shotenheimer? To bad be wouldnt be able to keep Crennel for the D cordinator spot.

But it doesnt matter, Crennel will have a good year and hopefully be back next year.

kalbears13
03-03-2007, 06:39 PM
Hang on, calm down. I'm not trying to justify passing on him just throwing ideas out there. Also, i'm not saying we can't/won't/shouldn't draft AP or Quinn. I just want a low(er) risk player. Quinn is shaky at times but I would be happy with taking him. AP has some injury issues, but, once again i'd be happy with him. I don't think we can go wrong with this draft. (Although knowing the Browns past history....)

I totally agree. No matter who we take whether it's branch, CJ, AP, Quinn or Thomas, I'm be pretty sure savage will make the right move.

JoeMontainya
03-03-2007, 10:18 PM
What do you guys think about trying to trade for Dominique Williams? The Texas running back who was hurt this year but ran pretty darn good behind a bad offensive line...

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/395946

What would it take for us to get him so we can take QUinn, Branch, THomas, CJ?

snazel
03-03-2007, 10:26 PM
I don't see us nabbing up a second-tier guy at RB in FA. We've got depth, we just don't have a franchise back/homerun hitter.

JoeMontainya
03-03-2007, 10:29 PM
Hes not a FA, and put up Pro Bowl numbers with one of the worste OL's at the time. He was hurt last year, but we should look into trading a 4rth round pick for him.

snazel
03-03-2007, 10:30 PM
In that case then I'd really say no. We can find a starting OG or DE in rd4 and find a true franchise back in Peterson rd1. I'd take Alford or Johnson rd4 over trading for him.

JoeMontainya
03-03-2007, 11:05 PM
Heres my newest theory.....

Trade 3rd overall pick to Falcons for: 10th pick, future 1st and Matt Schaub.

Use the 10th pick to draft Marshawn Lynch.

JoeMontainya
03-03-2007, 11:06 PM
What are we going to do with our safety depth?

Most likely Russell wont be back and that leaves us with: Poole, Jones, and Hamilton. We have to have at least 1 more.....Draft or FA?


Heres to getting Mike Doss this offseason.

JoeMontainya
03-03-2007, 11:21 PM
Heres my projected 2007 Browns roster, draft & FA.

-TRADE: 3rd pick for Falcons 10th, Schaub and 2008 1st RD pick.
DRAFT:
1 - Marshawn Lynch - more versitile and durable than Peterson
2 - Dwayne Jarrett - slow 40 will drop him with all the WR talent available
3 - Kareem Brown - Might start right away for us at DE
4 - Manuel Ramirez - might push Sowells to start right away, depth
5 - Damien Hughes - unathletic combine will obviously drop his status, 4.7 fourty, maybe a safety?
6 - Leroy Harris - OC backup, depth
7 - BPA

Free Agency:
LG - Eric Steinbach
OC - Hank Fraley
OLB - Antwan Peek
CB - Rodrerik Hood
SS - Mike Doss
NT - Shaun Smith

ROSTER:
QB - Matt Schaub - Charlie Frye - Derek Anderson
RB - Marshawn Lynch - Reuben Droughns - Jerome Harrison
FB - Terrell Smith - Laurence Vickers
WR - Braylon Edwards - Travis Wilson
WR - Dwayne Jarrett - Joe Jourovicius
TE - Kellen Winslow - Steve Heiden
LT - Kevin Shaffer - Kelly Butler
LG - Eric Steinbach - Joe Andruzzi
OC - Hank Fraley - Leroy Harris - Lecharles Bentley
RG - Manny Ramirez - Rob Simms
RT - Ryan Tucker - Isaac Sowells

DE - Orpeous Roye - Simon Frasier
NT - Ted Washington - Shaun Smith
DE - Kareem Brown - Orien Harris - Nick Eason
WLB - Kamerion Wimbley - Matt Stewart
MLB - Andra Davis - Chaun Thompson
MLB - DQwell Jackson - Leon Williams - Mason Unck
SLB - Willie McGinest - Antwan Peek
CB - Leigh Bodden - Dmario Minter
FS - Brodney Poole - Justin Hamilton
SS - Sean Jones - Mike Doss
CB - Rodrick Hood - Damien Hughes - Daven Holly

KR - Josh Cribbs
PR - Jerome Harrison
K - Phil Dawson
P - Dave Zastudil
LS - Mike Pontbriand


SEASON finish:
Saints = L
Bengals = W
Ravens = L
Raiders = W
Panthers = L
BYE
Broncos = W
Jets = W
Chargers = L
Falcons = W
Steelers = W
Bengals = L
Cheifs = L
Steelers = L
Ravens = W
Buccaneers = W
Texans = W
Overall: 9-7

thoughts?

JoeMontainya
03-03-2007, 11:57 PM
THis is out of the blue, but does anyone else want to take our "orange color" in the Unis and make it a dark colored orange?

I think that would be sweet.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/SEBarile/Misc/lego_color_pal_1.jpg
Were at about the third level, we need to go all the way to the right. Might make our team look meaner.

Hail Browns
03-04-2007, 08:45 AM
Um, Daymieon Hughes is still a 2nd rounder, 3rd at worst, not a 5th. He ran a 4.6, not a 4.7, and will not drop out of day one. He's still the best cover corner in this draft. And we need to address the lines earlier than the 3rd. 2nd rd, take a lineman, I don't care which side of the ball. And trading to 10 is too far down, I don't think there are many people as high on Lynch as you are. I want to stay in the top 7, and take one of the impact players available.

JoeMontainya
03-04-2007, 09:33 AM
4.6-4.7 corners DO NOT go in RD2. Hes not in the top 3 corners right now! Leon Hall, Darrelle Revis, Chris Houston. Scott dropped Hughes to his #9 overall corner after the combine and im sure he will fall farther after his pro day. His best time was a 4.65.

KBN570
03-04-2007, 12:13 PM
I don't think there are many people as high on Lynch as you are.

For what it's worth I'm very high on Lynch too... I love his size, his athleticism, his pass catching ability... there's so much to love. I think I would almost rather have him than Peterson, because I think he is more versatile, has less of an injury history, and isn't as big of an injury risk as peterson and his upright running style. Sure Peterson is more athletically gifted, but I'd rather have Lynch... if we can trade down and still get Lynch that would be gravy!

Freddy G
03-04-2007, 12:40 PM
Concerning Joe's mock....I would prefer the combination of Peterson, Harrell, and Higgins; EVERYDAY to Shaub, Lynch, Jarrett, and Brown.

What does Shaub give us?....An imobile Charlie Frye. Same arm, both are 6'4, neither have proved they can read a defense or be a franchise QB. All this BS about Shaub being worth a 1st or 2nd rounder is crap, what has he proven?????

We already have our redzone guys in K2, Beasy, and JJ. We don't need another. Give me someone explosive who can come in and return punts right away and be a vetical threat.

Harrell would be a first rounder had he not been injured. He would make an imediate impact, something Brown wouldn't.

I guess i am saying i would rather stay put than trade down, because it is time we get a truly elite player on this team. So far we only have one with that type of potential, that being K2 when healthy (quetionable weather or not he will ever be). After 7 the elite talent will be gone, and Lynch really isn't worth that high of pick. He is more in the 15-25 range.

JoeMontainya
03-04-2007, 01:37 PM
Freddy, Harrell would have to play DE for us. He benched 23 reps at the combine, that is nowhere near the strength needed. Brady Quinn for example benched 24 times. His scouting report says he cannot shed blocks, big negative as a 3-4 DL. It says he doesnt use his hands well and isnt stout at the point of attack.

Hes just not a 3-4 DE.

Freddy G
03-04-2007, 02:35 PM
Freddy, Harrell would have to play DE for us. He benched 23 reps at the combine, that is nowhere near the strength needed. Brady Quinn for example benched 24 times. His scouting report says he cannot shed blocks, big negative as a 3-4 DL. It says he doesnt use his hands well and isnt stout at the point of attack.

Hes just not a 3-4 DE.

Of course Harrell would play DE. If you were thinking Brown was going to play NT, you are sorely mistaken.

By the way, one of Harrell best attributes is the fact that he is stout at the point, and he plays the pass equally well. I assume you never saw him play. A good comparison would be Ty Warren, except Harrell is just a scosh less of an athlete.

icantackleclaret
03-04-2007, 02:38 PM
Reuben Droughns-RB- Browns Mar. 4 - 2:58 pm et


There was reportedly talk in Denver last week that Reuben Droughns could be traded back to the Broncos.

Rotoworld.com

JoeMontainya
03-04-2007, 02:43 PM
Scott right himself said that harrell isnt stout at the point of attack, just ask him. He has watched him play more than any of us.

"If you were thinking Brown was going to play NT, you are sorely mistaken."

Brown would be a DE. But because he hasnt lifted at his pro day Im starting to think he wont be strong enough either. he doesnt have much quickness.


Read his scouting report, its not the description anyone would prefer.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/dt/justinharrell.html

brat316
03-04-2007, 03:04 PM
I got a question for u browns fans, who are ur recivers besides like Brylon E., and Joe J. Dont you guys think another wr would be good like CJ

icantackleclaret
03-04-2007, 03:11 PM
our 3 reciever is Travis Wilson. He is our 3 rounder from last year. Do I think we could use CJ? I think CJ would be an upgrade for all 32 teams @ WR. It will/ could be hard to say no to him.

Freddy G
03-04-2007, 03:12 PM
Scott right himself said that harrell isnt stout at the point of attack, just ask him. He has watched him play more than any of us.

"If you were thinking Brown was going to play NT, you are sorely mistaken."

Brown would be a DE. But because he hasnt lifted at his pro day Im starting to think he wont be strong enough either. he doesnt have much quickness.


Read his scouting report, its not the description anyone would prefer.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/dt/justinharrell.html


Is that all you look at is scouting reports? Ever watch anyone play?

Even if you do only look at reports, read the whole thing. In the notes it says, "possible 3-4 DE" in more words or less. Also, notice his question at the point is one of the last things in the negatives, Scott wrights his reports in order of strengths. So, that isn't by anymeans his most glaring weakness. Also, in strengths it says, "plays the run well".

Flat out, Justin Harrell is a great fit for the 3-4 and can make an immediate impact, if not start from day 1.

JoeMontainya
03-04-2007, 03:15 PM
"Is that all you look at is scouting reports? Ever watch anyone play?"

Let me guess, a 17 year old like yourself studied game film of harrell and now thinks hes a great 3-4 DE? Theres a difference from catching the average game on TV, and studiying a guy.

You know nothing more about harrell than the average guy on this board.


Im willing to be 90% of everything you know about the guy has been from READING SCOUTING REPORTS. But you will say thats not true.

Hail Browns
03-04-2007, 05:54 PM
For what it's worth I'm very high on Lynch too... I love his size, his athleticism, his pass catching ability... there's so much to love. I think I would almost rather have him than Peterson, because I think he is more versatile, has less of an injury history, and isn't as big of an injury risk as peterson and his upright running style. Sure Peterson is more athletically gifted, but I'd rather have Lynch... if we can trade down and still get Lynch that would be gravy!

Well, then I guess it's a matter of preferance. I think Lynch will be a good back, I just don't agree that we should trade down and take him. I think other "elite" guys would have a bigger impact on this franchise. And my preferance is not Lynch.

Hail Browns
03-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Harrell would fit a 3-4 DE, as would Brown, but I would rather have Harrell. And I have seen him play, he would do fine.

Joe, don't be deceived by age, Freddy know a lot more than most of us about the 3-4. Listen to his words of wisdom. You don't have to be old to be intelligent.

bhaarat316, after Braylon and Joe, we have Travis Wilson and Joshua Cribbs. We undoubtedly need a WR, but I'd rather not take an elite type WR, just someone who can fill the slot, stretch a defense. It would provide us with more options as an offense.

JoeMontainya
03-04-2007, 06:05 PM
"Joe, don't be deceived by age, Freddy know a lot more than most of us about the 3-4. Listen to his words of wisdom. You don't have to be old to be intelligent. "

Harrell Benched 23 reps, how is he strong enough to take on the 2 blockers that will be stronger than him?

juve1325
03-04-2007, 06:15 PM
If we didend up trading down to ten I think the most logical pick would be either omobi okoye or adam carriker because I think that either one could play end for us effectively. Our d-line is one of the biggest needs for us and would make our linebackers play alot better. Also, I saw some people saying we should move pool to corner and if we did that and traded down I wouldn't mind us taking laron landry to be our free safety. I think that he is going to be an absolute beast in the pros.

Freddy G
03-04-2007, 06:48 PM
"Joe, don't be deceived by age, Freddy know a lot more than most of us about the 3-4. Listen to his words of wisdom. You don't have to be old to be intelligent. "

Harrell Benched 23 reps, how is he strong enough to take on the 2 blockers that will be stronger than him?


You think football is a game of bench presses?

To play DL you need a strong base, average bench numbers are just fine. Joe Thomas only did 28, Mike Huff did 24 last year, Daryn Colledge only did 19 oe 20, and 260lb Mike Kudla did 40 something, whoopty do. Judging by your logic, Mike Huff would be playing DE and Kudla NT.

3-4 ends need to be strong through their legs...and yes butt. And even more importantly they need to play with good leverage, something Harrell does very well. I could care less about the bench numbers as long as they are not completely terrible (15 or below).

Hail Browns
03-04-2007, 07:32 PM
You think football is a game of bench presses?

To play DL you need a strong base, average bench numbers are just fine. Joe Thomas only did 28, Mike Huff did 24 last year, Daryn Colledge only did 19 oe 20, and 260lb Mike Kudla did 40 something, whoopty do. Judging by your logic, Mike Huff would be playing DE and Kudla NT.

3-4 ends need to be strong through their legs...and yes butt. And even more importantly they need to play with good leverage, something Harrell does very well. I could care less about the bench numbers as long as they are not completely terrible (15 or below).

Agreed, it's more about lower body strength and positioning in my opinion.

JSimmsy21
03-04-2007, 08:35 PM
You think football is a game of bench presses?

To play DL you need a strong base, average bench numbers are just fine. Joe Thomas only did 28, Mike Huff did 24 last year, Daryn Colledge only did 19 oe 20, and 260lb Mike Kudla did 40 something, whoopty do. Judging by your logic, Mike Huff would be playing DE and Kudla NT.

3-4 ends need to be strong through their legs...and yes butt. And even more importantly they need to play with good leverage, something Harrell does very well. I could care less about the bench numbers as long as they are not completely terrible (15 or below).

also agreed. they should add squats or leg press to the combine.

Hail Browns
03-04-2007, 09:16 PM
also agreed. they should add squats or leg press to the combine.

I actually think that would really help teams evaluate prospects. Good idea, too bad it won't happen though.

icantackleclaret
03-08-2007, 04:55 PM
Reuben Droughns-RB- Browns Mar. 8 - 5:39 pm et


The Browns are shopping Reuben Droughns on the trade market.
Good luck.
Most teams have filled their holes at running back and Droughns averaged 3.4 yards-per-carry last season. Droughns is likely to be off the team before a mid-March roster bonus is due.

Rotoworld.com

Freddy G
03-08-2007, 05:35 PM
also agreed. they should add squats or leg press to the combine.


It would have to be squats in order to get an accurated measure. But that is kind of too dangerous (back) so i doubt we would see.

Leg presses would be misleading. I can't even begin to imagine what the players would push. I mean i am 175-180 on good day, and i rep like 450 (five 45lbs on each side) 15 times on a leg press (i play soccer). I doubt they could get a machine that could hold enough weight for most of these guys.

JoeMontainya
03-08-2007, 06:57 PM
In his radio interview (jamal Lewis), he mentioned the team is really serious about the run game and told him they plan on getting another OL guy to make our run game dominate.

I wonder if that leans towards Peterson and an OL early?

bigrick0016
03-08-2007, 09:59 PM
Maybe Marty Shotenheimer?


Are you Insane?

JSimmsy21
03-08-2007, 10:55 PM
It would have to be squats in order to get an accurated measure. But that is kind of too dangerous (back) so i doubt we would see.

Leg presses would be misleading. I can't even begin to imagine what the players would push. I mean i am 175-180 on good day, and i rep like 450 (five 45lbs on each side) 15 times on a leg press (i play soccer). I doubt they could get a machine that could hold enough weight for most of these guys.

you right about it being a little dangerous. and these guys probably have a 800+ lbs max on leg press. i think the most accurate way to do this would to do leg presses, rep a certain percentage of body weight, and in a certain time limit. so like this.

DT weights 300 lbs.
leg presses 150-175% body weight.
15-20 seconds.

so this guy has 15-20 seconds to do 450-525lbs as many times as he can.

this could show burst, motor, leg strenght. probably some other small things like how well this guy carries his own weight around. things like that.

wont ever happen, but its a thought.

JoeMontainya
03-08-2007, 11:29 PM
800 plus is easy for those guys. There is an OL at my old high school that does 1000 like its nothing.

"Are you Insane?"
That was the comment about Marty S.........Why not at this point? How many rookie coaches can the Browns sign? The players usually dont respect them, why not bring in a proven coach? Wouldnt that be the next step?

bigrick0016
03-09-2007, 11:44 AM
800 plus is easy for those guys. There is an OL at my old high school that does 1000 like its nothing.

"Are you Insane?"
That was the comment about Marty S.........Why not at this point? How many rookie coaches can the Browns sign? The players usually dont respect them, why not bring in a proven coach? Wouldnt that be the next step?


Apparently you don't remember the long and storied history of Schottenheimer choke jobs. As much as I'd like to actually get to the playoffs, I want towin when I'm there more.

JoeMontainya
03-09-2007, 11:49 AM
Apparently you don't remember the long and storied history of Schottenheimer choke jobs. As much as I'd like to actually get to the playoffs, I want towin when I'm there more.

Marty turned our franchise around in the 80's. We choked in the playoffs, then he left and we sucked worse. marty helped turn around the Chargers, choked in the playoffs then left. At least let him turn around our team and then let him leave.

bigrick0016
03-09-2007, 11:54 AM
Marty turned our franchise around in the 80's. We choked in the playoffs, then he left and we sucked worse. marty helped turn around the Chargers, choked in the playoffs then left. At least let him turn around our team and then let him leave.

I'd rather root for a ****** team that I have no expectations for than one who gets my hopes and crushes me when we get to the Playoffs. I've seen enough of that from the Browns, Indians and the John Cooper Buckeyes.

JoeMontainya
03-09-2007, 12:27 PM
Ya and by Cleveland terms Belichek is a bad coach right? I mean we did fire him.....

bigrick0016
03-09-2007, 12:37 PM
Ya and by Cleveland terms Belichek is a bad coach right? I mean we did fire him.....

He cut Bernie Kosar............... I rest my case

JoeMontainya
03-09-2007, 12:43 PM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/KosaBe00.htm

look at Bernies last 2 years as a Brown....INJURED, AND I WONDER WHY HE WAS CUT???

Bernie is one of the most overrated players ever, he had 3 solid years, and one average one, the rest werent anything to brag about.

bigrick0016
03-09-2007, 12:53 PM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/KosaBe00.htm

look at Bernies last 2 years as a Brown....INJURED, AND I WONDER WHY HE WAS CUT???

Bernie is one of the most overrated players ever, he had 3 solid years, and one average one, the rest werent anything to brag about.

Dude serously, can you not talk about Browns history here? Like ever.

This is why I never really ever came to the Browns thread in my 2 years here. When we get a Browns fan other than Freddy G. who either isn't borderline ******** or has only been a fan since 1997 I'll be here.

JoeMontainya
03-09-2007, 01:05 PM
bigrick dont judge people, point out the great seasons Bernie had? We benefited mroe from a great run game than we ever did from Bernie.

You make BB look bad for releasing him, but you had no idea until I pointed it out that he only played 7 games in each of his last 2 years. He never did good again in his career, so it was a good release.

"Dude serously, can you not talk about Browns history here?"

the only Browns history you know is the history youve read. You know nothing first hand.

Get over your man crush on the 17 year old Freddy. He used his opinion and tries to make it fact, thats not a great Browns fan, just a very opinionated one.

Hes 17!!! he never even exspecrienced Browns history like some of us.

bigrick0016
03-09-2007, 01:15 PM
bigrick dont judge people, point out the great seasons Bernie had? We benefited mroe from a great run game than we ever did from Bernie.

You make BB look bad for releasing him, but you had no idea until I pointed it out that he only played 7 games in each of his last 2 years. He never did good again in his career, so it was a good release.

"Dude serously, can you not talk about Browns history here?"

the only Browns history you know is the history youve read. You know nothing first hand.

I was there when he cut him in the middle of the '93 season. I was there when he signed to backup Aikman. I was watching th '93 NFC Title game when he came in and threw a TD. I also watched the Super Bowl when Jimmie and Aikman let him take the kneel down. I was also listening to the Todd Philcox game that happened the week after he was cut. You sir, are obviously not a true Browns fan for disrespecting Bernie. Don't accuse me of ****. Why the **** are you here? What the **** gives you the right to assume I wasn't there when my favorite player was cut? How the **** do you know I don''t remember Ozzie or Clay's final game? How do you think I don't remember Belichek being hung and burned in the Municipal parking lot? How the **** do you know anything about me? Go the **** away, I don't want you here and nobody else does.

JoeMontainya
03-09-2007, 01:24 PM
wow big rick, those are some big words you used, well im assuming they were big words because they were bleaped out, real mature. Keep it up Im convinced your now the best Browns fan alive.

JoeMontainya
03-09-2007, 01:29 PM
you make Bernie sound like a great player, fact is he only played 3 full seasons in his career. never won the big game, and when the Browns were great it was because we had the best running game in the league, not because of Bernie. If you watched his career with the Browns, he was known more for his horrid INT's than leading the team to the playoffs. He is a clone of Jake Plummer.

And the Browns best year in the 80's, was 1985, Bernie was a rookie and wasnt the reason we were good, the Browns team was just mediocre once Bernie was the full time guy, and his stupid injuries kept the team from ever getting over the hump.

Point out something that made Bernie great? i can tell you never fully watched him, because your one of the many youth that severely overrated him.

j05son
03-09-2007, 01:38 PM
Bernie Kosar, The face and mark for Cleveland QB's. Arguably the most popular player in Browns history when he was, in the end, an average NFL QB. I think the only sad part is that we measure our QB's to him and NONE OF THEM COME CLOSE. That's why I'm on the Brady Quinn bandwagon.

JoeMontainya
03-09-2007, 01:48 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1007

Those are Vinny Testaverdes numbers. Specifically look at the 3 years he played for the Browns. He played equal in those 3 years as Bernie did in his best 3 years as a Brown.

bigrick0016
03-09-2007, 01:50 PM
you make Bernie sound like a great player, fact is he only played 3 full seasons in his career. never won the big game, and when the Browns were great it was because we had the best running game in the league, not because of Bernie. If you watched his career with the Browns, he was known more for his horrid INT's than leading the team to the playoffs. He is a clone of Jake Plummer.

And the Browns best year in the 80's, was 1985, Bernie was a rookie and wasnt the reason we were good, the Browns team was just mediocre once Bernie was the full time guy, and his stupid injuries kept the team from ever getting over the hump.

Point out something that made Bernie great? i can tell you never fully watched him, because your one of the many youth that severely overrated him.

Stop telling me I'm a ******* youth! I have been a Browns fan since I was born and my parent have been Browns fan since the Otoo Graham days. Was Bernie Kosar ever great? Not really. he was good, he has a career 81 QB Rating. He threw 16 TD's against 10 picks in the playoffs so he's not the choker. Those losses are to be pinned on Schottenheimer/Byner.

No matter what you are saying (how can anybody be allowed to be a Browns fan support Belichek?) Bernie is the most popular player in Browns history. He DID NOT deserve his cold midseason cut. He not only cut Kosar at a time in which the heir apparent, Testaverde, was hurt. We were in first ******* place! This came on the heals of the releases of Langhorne, Slaughter and Brennan before the 1992 season. Thnis was the final straw. We burned him in effagy, screamed "Metcalf Up The Middle!" on every third down, lamented the wasted picks of "Youchdown" Tommy Vardell and watched as our father wore Bernie Kosar masks to games.

Your support of that arrogant, pompous ass as a coach when you claim to be a Browns fan sickens me. This leads me to believe that you are either doing this to get a rise out of me or you really have no sense of Browns history. If you knew history you'd know that not only can you not question a Cleveland fans attachment to the player who so wanted to be a Brown he used a loophole in the Supplemental Draft so he would not become a Viking. Nor, can you question the irrational hate of Bill Belichek.

bigrick0016
03-09-2007, 01:54 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1007

Those are Vinny Testaverdes numbers. Specifically look at the 3 years he played for the Browns. He played equal in those 3 years as Bernie did in his best 3 years as a Brown.

Dude, I know his numbers, you know why............I watched every game! We are not denying his worth.

j_Tress
03-09-2007, 02:40 PM
Bernie is one of the most overrated players ever, he had 3 solid years, and one average one, the rest werent anything to brag about.

Bernie Kosar, The face and mark for Cleveland QB's. Arguably the most popular player in Browns history when he was, in the end, an average NFL QB. I think the only sad part is that we measure our QB's to him and NONE OF THEM COME CLOSE. That's why I'm on the Brady Quinn bandwagon.

i don't know if i'm reading this right. why would you say these things? i guess this is why the internet is so great, because i'd be punching both of you in your baby makers and letting the rest of the REAL browns fans tear you apart. it's not about stats, it goes a lot deeper than that.

j05son
03-09-2007, 03:53 PM
i don't know if i'm reading this right. why would you say these things? i guess this is why the internet is so great, because i'd be punching both of you in your baby makers and letting the rest of the REAL browns fans tear you apart. it's not about stats, it goes a lot deeper than that.


You're going to "punch me in the baby maker" because I said that Cleveland has never had a QB and that Bernie was arguably the best QB we've had and that we compare all of our QB's to him and none come close. I'm saying that we have never had that true franchise QB that is the cornerstone in dynasties.
Green Bay - Starr, Farve
Dallas - Aikman, Staughbach
Colts - Unitas, Manning
SF - Young, Montana
Dolphins - Marino, Griese
Pittsburgh - Bradshaw, Tittle
Denver - Elway
Pats - Brady
Jets - Namath
Chiefs - Dawson (went to Alliance which is somewhat near me)
Bills - Kelly
Houston - Moon (that may be a stretch)...

And I'm sure theres more but I'm not about to look up stats to try to prove that we never had that significant guy to lead us. That's why I'm so high on Brady Quinn.

I know Bernie is a fav, I like the guy too. Even if he is just an average QB. I'm just saying that he is our past. We need a future. Bernie needs his role of best browns qb ever to be extinguished.

JoeMontainya
03-09-2007, 06:22 PM
Tell me why Bernie is great? Testaverde did everything he ever did for Cleveland. bernie was known for throwing key INTs. His stats arent great and he only played 3 full seasons in his career.

JSimmsy21
03-09-2007, 06:47 PM
"If you watched his career with the Browns, he was known more for his horrid INT's "

you do know that he sent an NFL record for most completed passes without and interception right?

joe, i think bigrick has more than proven his knowledge for the browns games, all you do is tell everyone how old they are and they know nothing. maturing isnt always about age. you tell me how young i am and you have no clue. i beleive you said you were 22? if i remember right. your no older than i am.

FREDDY has GREAT insight to things. he has said he's a soccer player, and being a sports fein that i'm sure he is, understands logic of movment and not always weight.

BIG RICK, calm down man. i get your point you know your stuff. that great man. i do agree with you pretty much on everything you said.

bernie was a damn good QB. if you only play the numbers games, then brett farve sucks b/c his numbers were not as good this year?

and Chad Pennington is a great football player b/c he had pretty good numbers this year.

not like that, stats arnt everything. it takes a team to win a game. THE WHOLE TEAM. blaming ppl on not winning the big game is a joke. look at Brady Quinn, his team is crap around him. thats why they lost the big game. why do the browns always lose? b/c our offense is never on the field and our D is always on the field, they get tired and teams just run the ball against us. our T.O.P. sucks.

JOE, it would be GREAT if you didnt rag on everyone else about stupid stuff. you dont know everything. neither do i or anyone else. thats why we post forums and look for other ppls insights. you've start more arguements with ppl in here then there EVER needs to be. see, you post something, then i post a reply, then you reply back. you dont say "your wrong, this is what happened or needs to happen or he's no good, he's better"

Bernie wasnt the greatest, but he was good. nobody can say otherwise.

i think i speak for everyone when i say this, and i'm not trying to be rude/immature or whatever, but if you dont have a post that can be carried on in a civil matter about a logical topic, PLEASE, DONT POST IT!.

j_Tress
03-09-2007, 08:56 PM
this is all very true, but you can't blame me for saying "punch you in the baby maker" cause that's a sweet line. i had to get that in there somewhere.

JoeMontainya
03-09-2007, 09:03 PM
Tell me how a QB that only played 3 complete seasons in his career is great?

He took the Browns where? Nowhere! His stats are nowhere near great. Explain how he was great then I will agree. Just because he was the best the Browns ever had, doesnt say much. Why quetion me when I pointed out his INT's? Ask anyone outside of the Browns family and they will give you a non bias statement.

twotondawg
03-09-2007, 09:11 PM
Daylon gone. Russell a Seahawk.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2793525

j_Tress
03-09-2007, 09:12 PM
like i said before, it's not just the stats or what he did on the field, he's a hero to a lot of browns fans for his personality, the way he acts, what he's done for the community, and the fact that he loved the browns.

JoeMontainya
03-09-2007, 09:15 PM
like i said before, it's not just the stats or what he did on the field, he's a hero to a lot of browns fans for his personality, the way he acts, what he's done for the community, and the fact that he loved the browns.

Were not arguing that hes a fan favorite, were arguing his career, something people severly overrate. But I can understand, since most current Browns fans believe Charlie Frye is an ok starter.

bigrick0016
03-09-2007, 09:54 PM
Were not arguing that hes a fan favorite, were arguing his career, something people severly overrate. But I can understand, since most current Browns fans believe Charlie Frye is an ok starter.

Nobody is arguing his validity as a starter except you.

j05son
03-10-2007, 12:13 AM
this is all very true, but you can't blame me for saying "punch you in the baby maker" cause that's a sweet line. i had to get that in there somewhere.

Or you can just keep re-watching Anchorman where you stole it from?

JSimmsy21
03-10-2007, 12:45 AM
Nobody is arguing his validity as a starter except you.

i'm not sure if he's starter material, but i do think he's had an unfair shot with no complimenting run game and a sh*t OLine. plus, there were quite a few of his interceptions that were not his fualt. (thats why we lost to carolina) and how many balls did they drop in the steelers game? around 7 recorded i beleive.

Tell me how a QB that only played 3 complete seasons in his career is great?

He took the Browns where? Nowhere! His stats are nowhere near great. Explain how he was great then I will agree. Just because he was the best the Browns ever had, doesnt say much. Why quetion me when I pointed out his INT's? Ask anyone outside of the Browns family and they will give you a non bias statement.

i didnt say he was great.

Bernie WASN'T the greatest, but he was GOOD. nobody can say otherwise.

and please, dont use complete seasons as a sake of arguement. everyone gets injured in the NFL. it happens. this was pennington's first full season and he did pretty good. Big Ben will be remembered as one of the Steelers greats, but he's only had one full season so far. and he has had some great numbers, and some REALLY bad ones. Rex Grossman had 2 games below a 10 passer rating. but he's their starter and they made it to the superbowl.

toonsterwu
03-10-2007, 01:42 AM
Shaun SMith coulkd be an intriguing addition. Probably won't ever develop into the top flight potential that he once had, but could be a solid rotational DL talent if utilized correctly.

mcdlaxbonz13
03-10-2007, 09:36 AM
well i just saw brian russel signed with the seahawks opening the door for brodney pool

mcdlaxbonz13
03-10-2007, 09:39 AM
also do you think that we will resign nat dorsey, cosey coleman, and nick eason. id like to see eason resigned i thought he did ok as a rotational guy

JoeMontainya
03-10-2007, 10:01 AM
probably none of them will be resigned.

Freddy G
03-10-2007, 10:05 AM
I would like to see Pool at corner even though Russell is gone.

Wright really has no business starting, but i think he would adequate at safety if need be, allowing Pool to start at corner and Holley nickel.

It would be amazing if Justin Hamilton broke out and became a starter at S....he has the tools.

icantackleclaret
03-10-2007, 10:14 AM
Does anyone disagree with this: In rounds 1-3 we need 1 RB, 1 G, and 1 DE/NT
I think we should go G in 2nd or 3rd (ie Grubbs,Blaylock or Manny) and RB in 1st or 3rd (ie AD or trade down and get Lynch, or whoever falls in 3rd such as Pittman or Hunt.) Any thoughts?

kew174psu
03-10-2007, 10:57 AM
What do you think of us signing Shaun Smith as NT?

TacticaLion
03-10-2007, 11:27 AM
Hello, Cleveland fans. Had a question for you...

The Lions cut RT Kelly Butler last year, and you picked him up. He played 6 games for you in 2006 (started 5). How did he do on the field?

Hail Browns
03-10-2007, 11:35 AM
Hello, Cleveland fans. Had a question for you...

The Lions cut RT Kelly Butler last year, and you picked him up. He played 6 games for you in 2006 (started 5). How did he do on the field?


I'd say he was a decent performer. I don't think he'll really ever be more than an adequate starter, but he's a good backup, good insurance policy. If Ryan Tucker doesn't come back and Butler ends up starting, we'll be OK on that right side, but nothing more than that.

keylime_5
03-10-2007, 11:36 AM
Yeah Butler played pretty well for us last year. He's a good insurance policy in case Ryan Tucker goes crazy again.

Hail Browns
03-10-2007, 11:36 AM
What do you think of us signing Shaun Smith as NT?


It could pay big dividends for us. I'm not expecting that, but I think he'll help us with depth problems.

Hail Browns
03-10-2007, 11:37 AM
Yeah Butler played pretty well for us last year. He's a good insurance policy in case Ryan Tucker goes crazy again.

Let's hope he doesn't though, I don't feel like having another mess because of people going crazy and others getting hurt.

JoeMontainya
03-10-2007, 12:20 PM
I would like to see Pool at corner even though Russell is gone.

Wright really has no business starting, but i think he would adequate at safety if need be, allowing Pool to start at corner and Holley nickel.

It would be amazing if Justin Hamilton broke out and became a starter at S....he has the tools.

I think Poole would be a better starter at CB, he did solid last year being thrown in under the fire. With a year to prepare, he could be a very physical corner kin of like Baxter, but IMO alot more athletic.

JoeMontainya
03-10-2007, 12:23 PM
Browns | Smith offer sheet update
Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:15:41 -0800

Geoff Hobson, of Bengals.com, reports the Cleveland Browns have signed restricted free agent DT Shaun Smith (Bengals) to an offer sheet worth $8 million over four years, according to two AFC North sources.


With that money to a player that has been a back-up in the 4-3 Savage has to see something in him. He was never the type for a 4-3. I think its a no lose situation for us. I heard we might have even poison pilled the contract making it impossible for Cincy to get him back if wanted and because he wasnt drafted, we wont have to give them compensation.

THis rules out draftin Tank Tyler IMO, unless we planned on him playing DE.

j_Tress
03-10-2007, 12:34 PM
Or you can just keep re-watching Anchorman where you stole it from?

didn't say it was my line, i said it was a sweet line.

Freddy G
03-10-2007, 03:28 PM
Wow, i guess that is quite a bit of money for a back up.

Phil must see something, but you must take into account how nutso this years FA has been, hell, we could probably make a little money this year.

Freddy G
03-10-2007, 03:31 PM
As for Pool, i could see him being a Chris McCallister type player at corner, in terms of potential.

With Mel Tucker coaching him, and Pool's athleticsm, the sky is really the limit at corner. However, at S i can't say the same thing because it such a cerebral position, and thus far he hasn't shown anything leading me to believe he has good enough instincts/football smarts to really blosom there. But then again he still young without much experience.

JSimmsy21
03-10-2007, 04:23 PM
$8 million for a backup? WOW. phil must really see something.

i dont think tank tyler would be a very good DE in the 34. i think now our 2nd rnd pick could actually go for interior linemen, depending on what the coaches see in this smith guy. we might even draft a corner now, which is propably the more logical pick for phil. and also more logical than taking a wide out in the second.

JoeMontainya
03-10-2007, 05:03 PM
I would take Meriweather in the 2nd. Can play corner or S.

Unless Blaylock or Grubbs are there, we should probably pass on OG. Maybe if Meachum, Bowe or Jarrett drop?

With the 2nd round, its usually smart to go BPA, because you never know what type of talent will drop.

It might even come down to Staley if hes there.

Freddy G
03-10-2007, 05:54 PM
In terms of value in round 2, i see Quinn Pitcock, Justin Harrell, Joe Staley, or a CB as the best value, unless someone really good falls.

I don't think we would address WR day 1 unless Ted Ginn himself fell to round 2. Although Higgins in the 3rd is inticing.

I see Pitcock, Harrell, and Staley as equal value in round 2, then followed by a corner, but based on need i would say one of the DL would be most likely.

j05son
03-10-2007, 10:13 PM
Wow, i guess that is quite a bit of money for a back up.

Phil must see something, but you must take into account how nutso this years FA has been, hell, we could probably make a little money this year.

I wouldn't call Smith a backup. Phil was quoted saying that Smith could be a franchise NT in the 3-4. My source was the Plain Dealer the last couple days...

Does anyone disagree with this: In rounds 1-3 we need 1 RB, 1 G, and 1 DE/NT
I think we should go G in 2nd or 3rd (ie Grubbs,Blaylock or Manny) and RB in 1st or 3rd (ie AD or trade down and get Lynch, or whoever falls in 3rd such as Pittman or Hunt.) Any thoughts?

I disagree. We traded Droughns which everyone knew was coming [or him being released]. We signed ex-Brown killer himself to a one year deal (Jamal said it was his idea for the one year deal and that if the Browns showed the commitment to the running game like Phil sold him on, he will be happy to sign a longer deal like Phil originally wanted). I don't know for sure or anything, I'm just speculating, but I think the front office is high on Lewis and his capabilities. We've all seen what he has done while healthy (remember he played all of last year with bone spurs in his ankle).

2- Guard. In the second round? Steinbach is already a staple there and the other can come on second day like Phil has done virtually every draft.

3.- DE maybe, but there isn't a 3-4 DT that projects in that round unless Tank unlikely falls. Tank in the second might not happen if we aquire Smith. Phil is apparently very high on him and thinks he can be a franchise 3-4 NT (Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer).

Lastly, if we do draft a HB, I hope it's Peterson. Also, anyone here, hear of Lynch on NFL Network falling to the second with all his off the field problems?

I would rather go after Bush 2nd or 3rd to compliment Lewis and get that franchise QB we've never had! We have targets (JJ, be-easy, k2), a better line, and a running game (lewis).

JoeMontainya
03-11-2007, 03:53 AM
"Lastly, if we do draft a HB, I hope it's Peterson. Also, anyone here, hear of Lynch on NFL Network falling to the second with all his off the field problems?"

Please explain "all the offfield" problems that Lynch has? His only problem was the assult charges, that were not found guilty and were solved outside of court, meaning the girl had no suficiant evidance. Not to mention it was an X girl friend that was probably a gold digger. What are his other problems?

Hail Browns
03-11-2007, 09:04 AM
I've never really been a big Michael Bush fan. I mean, I felt sorry for the guy when he got hurt. I really wanted to see him play this past year to get a better idea of what he does. He may be better than I currently believe, but I'd rather take a smaller guy with great quickness and vision. Note that small doesn't mean Garrett Wolfe sized.

j05son
03-11-2007, 11:54 AM
"Lastly, if we do draft a HB, I hope it's Peterson. Also, anyone here, hear of Lynch on NFL Network falling to the second with all his off the field problems?"

Please explain "all the offfield" problems that Lynch has? His only problem was the assult charges, that were not found guilty and were solved outside of court, meaning the girl had no suficiant evidance. Not to mention it was an X girl friend that was probably a gold digger. What are his other problems?

I really don't know. It was on the network they were arguing if Lynch falls to R2 because of all his off the field problems. They said teams are becoming stricter on off the field life after pacman and the Bengal/charger arrests...

40rounder
03-11-2007, 02:14 PM
Does anyone see the possibility of Minnisota trading with the Browns to beat Tampa Bay to c. johnson?

It would take minnisota's 2nd and 4th rd pcks.

Minnisota gets the best player in the draft at the position they need. Browns still have a shot at getting AP. (TB, Wash and Arizona all need defense. They all have established RB's). Two top 10 picks in the 2nd round gives us enough to trade back into the 1st round to pick up an OL or DL.

keylime_5
03-11-2007, 04:49 PM
I don't think we would address WR day 1 unless Ted Ginn himself fell to round 2. Although Higgins in the 3rd is inticing.

Yeah, Calvin Johnson in round 2 would be nice too, but just like the Ginn going in round 2 it won't happen.

WR is not a problem we should address in this draft unless we get a guy that is considered a 'steal' in the last 3 rounds - we have our 5 guys who are gonna be the receiving unit this fall right now even though it is not a great unit, it should be fine with what we're gonna try to do offensively. RB on the other hand...

j05son
03-11-2007, 09:31 PM
Does anyone see the possibility of Minnisota trading with the Browns to beat Tampa Bay to c. johnson?

It would take minnisota's 2nd and 4th rd pcks.

Minnisota gets the best player in the draft at the position they need. Browns still have a shot at getting AP. (TB, Wash and Arizona all need defense. They all have established RB's). Two top 10 picks in the 2nd round gives us enough to trade back into the 1st round to pick up an OL or DL.

All the trade down talks have been brought up, but yes I think it is possible.

I would rather trade with the Vikings than the Texans...Both are possible.

Peterson AND Quinn should both be there. The only thing is that, it could burn us. If we trade down, and AP and BQ are there, the Cardinals/Skins could trade down for a team looking to take one of them.

Also, I partially agree with keylime, I think that if we take Calvin in R1 it wouldn't hurt. He's a big time playmaker...I'd still rather have Quinn.

mcdlaxbonz13
03-11-2007, 11:07 PM
i've started to like the idea of us taking cj, and honestly i don't see phil goofing up in the position we are in, no matter who we take out of the "elite" prospects they will help us out greatly. so right now we all have our preferences some want quinn some want ap some want joe thomas all in all we are in a good position

kalbears13
03-11-2007, 11:29 PM
i've started to like the idea of us taking cj, and honestly i don't see phil goofing up in the position we are in, no matter who we take out of the "elite" prospects they will help us out greatly. so right now we all have our preferences some want quinn some want ap some want joe thomas all in all we are in a good position

QFT. I agree 100% (except I don't want Russell)

mcdlaxbonz13
03-12-2007, 12:36 AM
the only thing i am kind of mad about is how good adam carriker has done in both the senior bowl and the combine, i so wish we could get him in the second

Freddy G
03-12-2007, 06:35 AM
I think Carriker would be a legitamate option if we traded down actually.

His stock is right on the verge of top 10, if not already there.

Of course i would prefer an elite talent, but Carriker could be "elite" in the 3-4.

mcdlaxbonz13
03-12-2007, 10:22 AM
i think the only way we would take him is if we traded down with atlanta but i hope that doesnt happen id rather have peterson, jorhnosn, or alan branch. all i hope is that he starts to slip into near the 20's and maybe we can pull of a trade to get back into the first and take him, of course this is all just wishfull thinking

Hail Browns
03-12-2007, 04:51 PM
"In Savage We Trust" I'm sticking with that. He'll make the right decision on draft day. I didn't want Wimbley last year, but I think we all see how that's turned out.

CherryGarcia510
03-12-2007, 06:59 PM
"In Savage We Trust" I'm sticking with that. He'll make the right decision on draft day. I didn't want Wimbley last year, but I think we all see how that's turned out.

QFT. I really wastn't a fan of the wimbley pick at the time but now i see why Savage picked him. Phil has also done a great job with the FA during his time so i trust he'll make the right decision in this draft

mcdlaxbonz13
03-12-2007, 08:26 PM
i was talking with a friend today about football and i realized something, all our big name free agents since phil has taken over have gotten injured, baxter and bently i just hope that the same doesnt happen to steinbach

Hail Browns
03-12-2007, 08:32 PM
i was talking with a friend today about football and i realized something, all our big name free agents since phil has taken over have gotten injured, baxter and bently i just hope that the same doesnt happen to steinbach


For the sake of the team, and even more for Steinbach, I really hope he doesn't get hurt.

JSimmsy21
03-12-2007, 10:00 PM
shaffer played the full season. so did fraley.

mcdlaxbonz13
03-12-2007, 11:00 PM
yes but they werent the BIG signing our key signing of 05 was baxter, our key signing of 06 was bentley

JSimmsy21
03-13-2007, 08:02 AM
point taken. i swear there's something in the erie water making everyone that plays for the browns get staph infections. lol.

JoeMontainya
03-14-2007, 11:30 PM
As I see it our main needs are this:

1 starting CB, unless we rely on Dmario Minter, Daven Holly, or Kenny Wright being that guy.

1 starting WR, JJ isnt a #2 anymore, hes an ok #3. Travis Wilson has no exsperience and could be a 2, but no team should rely on that, especially with Tim Carter and Josh Cribbs as the rest of the depth.

1 RG - we have people that can fill this position, Sowells and maybe some other guys (Matua, Simms, McKinney etc..) but unless we want to settle for less, it needs upgreaded. We have taken care of our depth.

NEEDED starters = CB, RG, WR.
NEEDED back-ups, depth = RB, FS, LT

and then QB. Only if Brady Quinn is there, if hes gone, then we dont need to draft one. FB might be a depth concern, but im not worried.

JSimmsy21
03-15-2007, 12:43 AM
1 RG - we have people that can fill this position, Sowells and maybe some other guys (Matua, Simms, McKinney etc..) but unless we want to settle for less, it needs upgreaded. We have taken care of our depth.

who is this simms guy you speak of? are you talking about rob smith? the rookie from last year?

JoeMontainya
03-15-2007, 12:57 AM
My bad, I keep thinking of the Seattle guy.

JoeMontainya
03-15-2007, 02:19 AM
We have made 7 current FA signings and probably at least 1 more to come. Also the trade involving Carter and a few releases of players from last year. This team is changing by the week and when draft time comes around we will have alot of new players.

keylime_5
04-02-2007, 05:25 PM
Okay, here's what I wanna know after hearing Crennel's opinion on their BPA strategy: Who rated higher on our draft board do you think, Brady Quinn or Adrian Peterson? Are they equal value, and if so, who will "help our team" more in Savage/Crennel's eyes?

Answering that question right means you know who we're gonna draft at #3 overall

RoyHall#1
04-02-2007, 06:03 PM
I think Quinn is rated higher than AD, but I wish it were flipped.

keylime_5
04-02-2007, 07:26 PM
That's what I though before the past 2 days. From what I've been hearing lately, we probably would go Peterson and maybe even Thomas before we take Quinn. That's the kinda news that I like to hear, but it's just hearsay, there's still a decent chance Quinn goes to us I think.

Most of the 'draft people' have had us taking Peterson, but I'm not sure how much of that is them thinking we want him more and how much of it is them putting Quinn #2 to Detroit (which won't happen, CJ or JT will go #2)

Freddy G
04-02-2007, 08:05 PM
If it is truly BPA, then "welcome to Cleveland Mr. Johnson, unfortunately the number 21 is unavailable, but since you are a god, we may be able to pull some strings."

Actually, judging by the bit about who would bring the most impact, i think it is AD without a question. But long term, it could very well be Quinn, Thomas, or even Branch. So, it kind of depends on how secure Romeo/Phil's jobs are, if they feel they have a few years, then the pick is most likely Quinn (though not my personal choice, Frye is the man)...however, if they are in a "results NOW" situation, AD will have to find a new number.

Personally, AD is on top of my board regardless of the situation. And the only reason he is slightly above Johnson is because of K2 and Beasy.

PoopSandwich
04-02-2007, 08:09 PM
Kellen Winslow Jr. is god, Calvin Johnson is a demi-god.

Anyways, you cannot go wrong with Thomas, Quinn, Peterson, Johnson... Just wait until draft, you should be happy noi matter what.

j05son
04-02-2007, 09:35 PM
I think Quinn is higher than AD. It's all up to Phil but Romeo wants Quinn more so than anyone.

Romeo wants him based on his good friend Weis...Phil likes Lewis and wanted him to LONG TERM DEAL but Lewis wanted a commitment to the run. If Cleveland commits to the run, and shows Lewis the intangibles he wants, he'll sign a long term deal...[source Cleveland Plain Dealer]...

That's why I think Quinn is higher than AD. However, CJ, Thomas could be higher than Quinn.

I think Russel is top for Phil, Quinn for Romeo. IT is also reported that Phil and Randy Lerner talked about drafting a QB [Rumor/speculation...].

keylime_5
04-02-2007, 10:35 PM
They probably don't care who they already have when ranking players on their draft board. Peterson is a far superior talent than Quinn, but the injury issues MIGHT put him at equal "value" to Quinn, in which case it's a toss up. Lewis is here for 1 year and we don't have a good QB, so they could definitely go either way. But if they're gonna stick to the "run the ball and stop the run" philosophy then Peterson is a perfect fit.

j05son
04-02-2007, 11:03 PM
They probably don't care who they already have when ranking players on their draft board. Peterson is a far superior talent than Quinn, but the injury issues MIGHT put him at equal "value" to Quinn, in which case it's a toss up. Lewis is here for 1 year and we don't have a good QB, so they could definitely go either way. But if they're gonna stick to the "run the ball and stop the run" philosophy then Peterson is a perfect fit.

It could be smokescreen, or speculation, but Phil is apparently very high on Lewis, saying "still has gas in the tank" and Lewis is only 27 y/o...Last year played with bone spurs in his ankle...I think the ex Brown killer himself will be alright for next year and a couple more as well..

The biggest impact player would be CJ. He and Beasy along with K2 should really spread the d and take safties out of the box [esp if we have JJ in for a 3 WR set] and let Lewis run North.

I can't wait though, I'm requesting the draft days off for work 8-)

Hail Browns
04-03-2007, 09:33 AM
I hate waiting for the draft. This past week has been dragging on as I wait, and wait, and wait. I'm not sure I can handle it much longer folks. NEED DRAFT FOR SURVIVAL!!!

Hail Browns
04-03-2007, 09:37 AM
Now that I've gotten that out of the way, a couple thoughts. About Lewis being only 27; he's got more tread on his tires than some RB's who've played for 10+ years, so that's what I'd be worried about. Not his age. Personally though, I think he will help us.
For me, top 3 is:
1. Adrian Peterson
2. Brady Quinn
3. Alan Branch

Branch has dropped a little for me, but only because I really don't think we'll take him, and because I'm beginning to doubt that we may trade down.

j05son
04-03-2007, 09:33 PM
Usually two posts like that is considered double posting and is usually against the TOS of forums...

If they don't violate any terms of TOS, they are still impolite, and looked down upon other members...

Just some FYI, I'm relatively new here [as are you], and don't know how the regulars are, but I know places were you would get flammed for that...

Hail Browns
04-03-2007, 10:02 PM
Usually two posts like that is considered double posting and is usually against the TOS of forums...

If they don't violate any terms of TOS, they are still impolite, and looked down upon other members...

Just some FYI, I'm relatively new here [as are you], and don't know how the regulars are, but I know places were you would get flammed for that...

I know all about double posting, usually I just end up with one really long post. Anyway, I'm not worried about being flamed for it. And "the regulars" as you call them, pretty much don't exist. People who I know have been here the longest are keylime and freddy, and then I think I'm probably next, at least as an observer. I'm not really new here, I just haven't posted a lot.

JoeMontainya
04-04-2007, 11:54 AM
I know plenty of very respectable posters (toonster) that have posted 4-5 times before a response. I could really care less.

mcdlaxbonz13
04-04-2007, 12:43 PM
yea no one cares how many times u post in a row as long as its not a ******** statemant one after another

TRich28
04-06-2007, 07:42 PM
According to Rotoworld.com:

"Gary Baxter-DB- Browns Apr. 6 - 7:56 pm et

Browns CB Gary Baxter says he'll be back playing in Week 1.

Baxter says he has "full range of motion" and his legs are "stronger than they were before" he tore both his patellar tendons in Week 7 of 2006. He seemed to have no problems walking around the NFL Network studio."

Good news if true...

Freddy G
04-06-2007, 08:12 PM
Keep dreaming homes....

Although, if true, his DNA needs to be cloned or something because i that type of recovery would unprecedented.

j05son
04-06-2007, 10:22 PM
yea no one cares how many times u post in a row as long as its not a ******** statemant one after another

Thank you for speaking on the behalf of everyone....

According to Rotoworld.com:

"Gary Baxter-DB- Browns Apr. 6 - 7:56 pm et

Browns CB Gary Baxter says he'll be back playing in Week 1.

Baxter says he has "full range of motion" and his legs are "stronger than they were before" he tore both his patellar tendons in Week 7 of 2006. He seemed to have no problems walking around the NFL Network studio."

Good news if true...

A month ago, he couldn't walk without his walker...That was at the Greater Cleveland sports banquet...I'm sure he hasn't made that much progress.

Hail Browns
04-07-2007, 11:44 PM
He won't be back that soon. At the very best, he'd start out on the PUP list with the slim possiblity of returning late in the year. If he somehow comes back that soon, he's a bigtime freak.

Hail Browns
04-08-2007, 08:40 AM
I'm changing the subject here a little bit. Did anyone happen to see the interview with Brady Quinn on ESPN.com? Seems a little overconfident, almost cocky. I don't think we'd have to worry about him losing that if we drafted him.

keylime_5
04-08-2007, 08:55 AM
It's probably good to have confidence in a QB, even if he is a bit of a prick sometimes. Quinn or Russell, I'd be happy and think both would turn out to be good QBs for us and change our fortunes a bit.

Hail Browns
04-08-2007, 01:16 PM
It's probably good to have confidence in a QB, even if he is a bit of a prick sometimes. Quinn or Russell, I'd be happy and think both would turn out to be good QBs for us and change our fortunes a bit.

Yea, it is good to have that confidence. I was just a little surprised by him, didn't realize he believed in himself that much.

JSimmsy21
04-14-2007, 04:34 PM
just bringing the discussion thread back to the top so it doesnt die.

JoeMontainya
04-16-2007, 11:06 AM
Browns | Heiden signs four-year extension
Sat, 14 Apr 2007 18:07:55 -0700

The Cleveland Browns announced TE Steve Heiden has signed a four-year contract extension with the team. Financial terms were not disclosed.

CherryGarcia510
04-16-2007, 04:29 PM
i like the signing, Heiden has been solid and there seem to be some questions on K2's health

JoeMontainya
04-16-2007, 09:43 PM
Browns | Ricard signed
Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:39:48 -0700

The Cleveland Browns have announced they have signed street free-agent FB Alan Ricard (Bills) to a one-year contract. Financial terms were not disclosed.

mcdlaxbonz13
04-16-2007, 09:47 PM
i wonder why we would sign a FB maybe to give vickers so competition in training camp, i hope they keep vickers he is by far my favorite player

Hail Browns
04-17-2007, 04:52 AM
i wonder why we would sign a FB maybe to give vickers so competition in training camp, i hope they keep vickers he is by far my favorite player

Ricard was the lead blocker for Lewis when he romped on everyone in 03'. That's probably got something to do with it. We might want a running FB and a blocking FB, which we now have.

We also signed TE Ryan Krause. The article on ClevelandBrowns.com says he was with SD the last couple years but kept getting hurt.

JSimmsy21
04-17-2007, 09:42 AM
why do we need 4 TE's?

JoeMontainya
04-17-2007, 10:28 AM
Krouse isnt a gaurantee to make the team. Im assuming him and Dinkins are gonna battle in the offseason.

Hail Browns
04-17-2007, 02:38 PM
Krouse isnt a gaurantee to make the team. Im assuming him and Dinkins are gonna battle in the offseason.

That would be a good idea. Battles are always great for bringing out the best in some players. Hopefully one of them enjoys that #3 TE spot...

JoeMontainya
04-17-2007, 04:04 PM
Krouse 2 years ago for S.D. caught like 6 passes in a game for 81 yards before getting injured, really hasnt been on the field since.

Hail Browns
04-18-2007, 04:53 AM
I read that part about the game he had. Sounds good, but why (other than Chud) would we get an injury prone TE? Maybe it'll be "reverse curse" for him or something and he won't get hurt anymore. That would be hilarious.

KBN570
04-18-2007, 08:34 AM
Ricard was the lead blocker for Lewis when he romped on everyone in 03'. That's probably got something to do with it. We might want a running FB and a blocking FB, which we now have.

We also signed TE Ryan Krause. The article on ClevelandBrowns.com says he was with SD the last couple years but kept getting hurt.

I guess drafting Le'Ron McClain is extremely unlikely now... too bad, because he will be a special fullback when it comes to blocking.

JoeMontainya
04-27-2007, 03:01 PM
Browns resigned Nat Dorsey. This might eliminate a later round OT.

keylime_5
04-27-2007, 04:10 PM
Browns resigned Nat Dorsey. This might eliminate a later round OT.

hah, yeah right. Tony Ugoh in the 2nd, Ryan Harris in the 3rd, and another left tackle in rounds 4 through 7 are extremely possible, and in fact very likely. Nat Dorsey is more fit as a RT, and was signed to a low cost 1 year deal to have a clear cut backup LT before the draft to leave no glaring holes. We will almost certainly draft a pure left tackle tomorrow to knock Dorsey off the roster in camp.

JoeMontainya
04-27-2007, 05:37 PM
If thats the case, we better never even consider Ryan Harris. Hes horrible.

keylime_5
04-27-2007, 05:40 PM
Yes, Harris has career backup written all over him. He'll probably be Jacob Rogers version 2. I wouldn't mind Ugoh in the third, but not in the second unless we trade down to the mid second.

Freddy G
04-27-2007, 05:45 PM
I think i would take Doug Free over both Harris and Ugoh...if we are looking for a guy with true LT potential (though he would probably play RT).

Not counting the small school guys (i can't give an opinion on someone i have never seen), Thomas, Staley, Brown, and Free are the only guys in the draft with legit LT potential. Eveyone else is either a OG or RT. Though some of the small schoolers are intriguing and according the reports *could play LT, but history is against them.

snazel
04-27-2007, 06:15 PM
I think i would take Doug Free over both Harris and Ugoh...if we are looking for a guy with true LT potential (though he would probably play RT).

Not counting the small school guys (i can't give an opinion on someone i have never seen), Thomas, Staley, Brown, and Free are the only guys in the draft with legit LT potential. Eveyone else is either a OG or RT. Though some of the small schoolers are intriguing and according the reports *could play LT, but history is against them.

Actually I think Ugoh has more potential to play LT in the pros than Free. Both would be good fits at RT. And I agree I'd take Free over Harris. Another name to keep in mind is Mansfield Wrotto. A Browns scout was seen working him at C in one of his workouts, whereas he hasn't played C since high school. Maybe we're looking for a guy early day 2 who could provide that versatility for us. Beekman may be an option earlier as well considering he's played both RG and C at a high level.

DraftMasterG
04-27-2007, 06:41 PM
we need to trade for jeff garcia

kalbears13
04-27-2007, 06:45 PM
we need to trade for jeff garcia

...and Trent Dilfer and Kelly Holcomb and sign Tim Couch. Then we can also sign Jim Brown and Bernie Kosar.

tbraton
04-27-2007, 08:15 PM
Not counting the small school guys (i can't give an opinion on someone i have never seen),


Snicker snicker snicker....I'm sure you spend your time breaking down film all day and have all prospects evaluated.....you were one of those guys who didn't even know AP fumbled 17 times in 31 games until I told you....you must have missed the film on that.......HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Freddy G
04-27-2007, 08:29 PM
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!....You can't read, HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

And, you can go away now, just fyi...HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

JoeMontainya
04-27-2007, 09:00 PM
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!....You can't read, HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

And, you can go away now, just fyi...HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! FREDDY your a moron! You have no knowledge of anything. Honestly just leave!




Acually on a mature note: tbraton, Freedy has more knowledge about football and the Browns than you do about being stupid.

tbraton
04-27-2007, 09:33 PM
Acually on a mature note: tbraton, Freedy has more knowledge about football and the Browns than you do about being stupid.

You're right...unlike you and Freddy, I have no idea what it's like to be stupid.......maybe you think Freddy knows a lot about football, but most people don't....I guess that's why you're stupid..........it's nice to know you can take your face outta Freddy's lap long enough to respond........

JoeMontainya
04-27-2007, 09:41 PM
tbraton, all of us are on this site throughout the course of the day because we really care about the draft and the Browns. Your on this site all day to be a ****** and act imature. Maybe you just dont have any friends and this is how you get attention, realyl sad however it is.

tbraton
04-27-2007, 10:27 PM
tbraton, all of us are on this site throughout the course of the day because we really care about the draft and the Browns. Your on this site all day to be a ****** and act imature. Maybe you just dont have any friends and this is how you get attention, realyl sad however it is.


Don't you want to comment on how you keep stepping in dog crap because you don't look were you're going.....A little proof-reading can save you a lot of embarrassment........

keylime_5
04-27-2007, 10:37 PM
I got my mock completely finished. Can't wait to show you guys tomorrow morning in that other thread.

DraftMasterG
04-27-2007, 10:40 PM
I hope we dont get joe thomas or brady quinn

raidersfan86
04-27-2007, 11:07 PM
we need to trade for jeff garcia

smoekscreen

mcdlaxbonz13
04-27-2007, 11:34 PM
so tbraton what motivates you to get up in the morning, making fun of other peoples opinions because they clash with yours and i know how ur response to this will be. it will probably start with you going hahahaha for quite some time then you will call me a moron and thats about it so im gonna go ahead and save you the time of typing it i could care less what you think and believe me i know you are still going to waste your time and everyones time by coming up with another redundant reply hopefully one day you find that pair of testicles you always wanted for christmass, hanakuh or whatever you celebrate

bigrick0016
04-28-2007, 11:46 AM
Freddy G is officially pissed

RoyHall#1
04-28-2007, 11:55 AM
Joe Thomas. Good pick IMO, but I would like it a lot better if tbraton didn't want him. Our line is amazing right now, and I'm extremely excited to see how the rest of the draft and our picks play out. Let's go Roy Hall!

rickscott
04-28-2007, 12:11 PM
I'm from Cincinnati but I came on here a month or so ago and said that Joe Thomas would be the smartest choice you guys could make. You can't determine if you have the right QB if you don't protect him and give him a chance to mature. Great choice for you in Rd 1!

jriles0522
04-28-2007, 12:42 PM
I could have dealt with the passing of Quinn or Peterson, as long as we got one of them.

This pick is going to haunt us for years.

Thomas may be solid, but the value of OTs in Rd. 2 did not justify us passing on the premium players in the draft. You have the 3 pick, you go get a stud, not a safe average guy.

I call it, we choked. Passed on a franchise back and QB, I'm in shock.

Also, so help me god if tbraton says some more ******** on here, let's just get him banned already.

RoyHall#1
04-28-2007, 01:13 PM
I would love to see a trade up for Brady Quinn if he falls too far. Sure we have many other needs but opprtunities like this are hard to find. Trading up for Quinn would leave us with glaring weaknesses at DL and CB after the draft, but hey, it's not like we were going to make the playoffs this year anyway. If we get Quinn, playoffs in 08 seem inevitable IMO.

hugegmenfan
04-28-2007, 03:18 PM
wow i got to congratulate you guys - you guys had probably the best 1st round of all time on paper. phil savage did a great job.

titansfan
04-28-2007, 03:23 PM
Titans fan here, great job today- coming out with 2 top 5 picks with a fair deal- you got the starting QB and his starting LT all in one day- best draft so far...

jriles0522
04-28-2007, 03:35 PM
I could have dealt with the passing of Quinn or Peterson, as long as we got one of them.

This pick is going to haunt us for years.

Thomas may be solid, but the value of OTs in Rd. 2 did not justify us passing on the premium players in the draft. You have the 3 pick, you go get a stud, not a safe average guy.

I call it, we choked. Passed on a franchise back and QB, I'm in shock.

Also, so help me god if tbraton says some more ******** on here, let's just get him banned already.


Saved the day!!!! We'd have been lookin for a QB next year anyway. We lost the 2nd but who gives a ****.

kalbears13
04-28-2007, 03:54 PM
I hope we dont get joe thomas or brady quinn

You must be pissed off.

DraftMasterG
04-28-2007, 04:27 PM
You must be pissed off.

Well Joe Thomas was a good pick just not a fun pick. Its not fun to watch a fat guy push other fat guys each play


Brady Quinn will suck just like every other qb we get. We gave up too much for him. If we were giving up that much we should have just got calvin johnson.


Im still waiting the headline "Joe Thomas boat sinks. Joe Thomas was eaten by shark"

Freddy G
04-28-2007, 04:28 PM
Wow, the cowboys raped us...then put us in a duffell bag and proceeded to throw us in lake erie...

The 49ers traded a 2nd and 3rd last year to move up to the same pick...we gave up a 2nd and 2008 1st...absolutely raped.

I'm am not complaining about the move, just how much we gave up. Brady Quinn is not worth a first and second round pick.

What really gets me is that we gave up at least a top 15 pick next year...its not like we are fringe playoff team picking in the mid 20s evey year.

We got raped!

WinslowEdwards19
04-28-2007, 05:06 PM
Wow, the cowboys raped us...then put us in a duffell bag and proceeded to throw us in lake erie...

The 49ers traded a 2nd and 3rd last year to move up to the same pick...we gave up a 2nd and 2008 1st...absolutely raped.

I'm am not complaining about the move, just how much we gave up. Brady Quinn is not worth a first and second round pick.

What really gets me is that we gave up at least a top 15 pick next year...its not like we are fringe playoff team picking in the mid 20s evey year.

We got raped!

We were probably going to end up drafting a quarterback next year anyway guy, so quit freaking out.

It's not like there was going to be an amazing amount of quarterbacks that are better then Brady Quinn, he only dropped due to the lack of need for quarterbacks this year.

tbraton
04-28-2007, 06:10 PM
Let me just say: I told you MF'ers..........I read the tea leaves correctly because I know more about football than any of you young turds.......BTW: the BQ trade was a win-win for Cleve. and Dallas........look at what Balt. paid to move up for Boller back in the day.....look at what SF paid for Staley......there are NO quality LT after the first round

To those who think the Browns got ripped off, just look at the draft value chart....the year before when we went 6-10, we drafted 12.....assuming we draft 12 next year, and valuing BQ as the 7th pick, a high 22nd rounder is a cheap price....

now we get our QB a year earlier and he gets 1 year experience 1 year sooner.......for Phil and Romeo who have to win now, good draft.......

you dumb MF'ers.........

a team's cornerstone positions are: QB, LT, CB and pass rusher....you need those positions.....you can't go RB......they're a dime a dozen.....

if you MF'ers reread my football posts, you might learn something.....

you'll also learn that only an idiot would pass up CJ if he falls in your lap.....Detroit was smart....they didn't need him, but freakish talent....Phil would have picked him if available and he couldn't trade down......you dumb MF'ers would have passed and not gotten value for the pick......

Ruken
04-28-2007, 06:25 PM
ok can we get this guy banned?

tbraton
04-28-2007, 07:03 PM
Joe Thomas. Good pick IMO, but I would like it a lot better if tbraton didn't want him. Our line is amazing right now, and I'm extremely excited to see how the rest of the draft and our picks play out. Let's go Roy Hall!

YOU SCUMBAG!!!!!!!!!! You'd rather see me unhappy than see the Browns win......you don't deserve to wear the BROWN AND ORANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!



BTW: if you get me banned, then you lose the only intelligent poster on the board.......you'll have to drown in a complete sea of idiocy............

Stash
04-28-2007, 07:16 PM
Raider fan here, just wanted to say that you guys probably had the best first round and probably the best draft so far. Who woulda thought Quinn would fall that far?

j05son
04-28-2007, 07:29 PM
ok can we get this guy banned?

You see the little red square next to quick reply in the bottom right of his post.

He received an infraction.

Admin didn't like his post apparently and gave him a -15 infraction for 3months...

You shouldn't have to worry much longer.

jag
04-28-2007, 08:17 PM
Good, good, good, gooooooooood draft you guys. Congrats.

JoeMontainya
04-28-2007, 09:52 PM
Good, good, good, gooooooooood draft you guys. Congrats.

Thanks bud. Im really happy. Now Phil needs to go get us another WR/RB/RG/DE and were set.

mcdlaxbonz13
04-29-2007, 01:31 AM
i honestly think we will trade back into the 4th round, probably giving up chaun thompson or one of our quarterbacks, or both, but i just got a feeling we will be trading into the 4th round, probably with dallas again

snazel
04-29-2007, 01:37 AM
I'd love to move back into 4 and see if we can snag either Bush or Pittman. Chaun and our 5th (preferably 6th) would be a nice move, but Dallas has Ware, Carpenter, and now Spencer in their LB corp. and I don't know if they need ILB help.

Severe Punishment
04-29-2007, 01:54 AM
Hey there Browns fans. Congratulations to you guys for sticking thruogh some rough years and rougher 1st round picks.
Must seem like it's all worth it now.

Anyways just curious as to whether or not the Browns should do more "wheeling and dealing" with thier remaining 3 picks (5th 6th and a 7th)
Or should the trade into another pick ?

I think Thomas will be solid (not world class) and when Quinn starts he'll be exactly what he is...efficient , productive and poised. I really think
he's going to be something special.
another RB wouldn't hurt (Bush might slip to the 5th) and perhaps a Tala Esera could fall that far.

I think between last year and this year the Browns are a team headed into the right direction.

Freddy G
04-29-2007, 07:21 AM
if you MF'ers reread my football posts, you might learn something...........


Like your immense vocabulary and literary skills (reading and grammar incase you didn't know as it is tough to come with "...HA!...." because that is pretty much your wisest post). And please show us the evidence of you "reading the tea leaves" because not once did you say anything regarding Joe Thomas...or trading for Quinn. Infact, i think just about all of your post said something regarding HA! and involved our parents.

tbraton
04-29-2007, 07:37 AM
Like your immense vocabulary and literary skills (reading and grammar incase you didn't know as it is tough to come with "...HA!...." because that is pretty much your wisest post). And please show us the evidence of you "reading the tea leaves" because not once did you say anything regarding Joe Thomas...or trading for Quinn. Infact, i think just about all of your post said something regarding HA! and involved our parents.


Hey Draft Guru Freddy, read the "I changed my mind thread and some of my others" before shooting your mouth off.......I'm completely shocked that the others think you know something about football, but I guess to the kids with a 55 IQ, the kid with an 80 IQ appears to be a genius......I loved the way you hated the trade for Quinn, but then I posted it was a good trade and I changed your mind........I think you need to go back to youtube and break down some more tape.......

Addict
04-29-2007, 08:45 AM
Hey you guys, Lions fan here, just wanted to say I was very impressed with your picks yesterday! Amazing job, netting yourself a franchise QB and a LT to last you many years.

PoopSandwich
04-29-2007, 08:59 AM
Hey there Browns fans. Congratulations to you guys for sticking thruogh some rough years and rougher 1st round picks.
Must seem like it's all worth it now.

Anyways just curious as to whether or not the Browns should do more "wheeling and dealing" with thier remaining 3 picks (5th 6th and a 7th)
Or should the trade into another pick ?



Thanks, and yes... Trade up with those last three picks and grab Pittman/Bush and call it a day, IF this draft pans out it may be one of the best drafts in Cleveland Browns history and possibly ever.

JoeMontainya
04-29-2007, 09:12 AM
Would anyone be mad if we traded for Randy Moss to help out Brady Quinn?

JoeMontainya
04-29-2007, 09:20 AM
Maybe even eyeball Eric Moulds with a cheap 1 year deal to help Brady.

Ruken
04-29-2007, 09:45 AM
Randy Moss would be a decent move but we'd have to give up way to much to get him. I really think Wilson is gonna pan out this year and BE and winslow are just going to develop more. Add in a much much stronger Oline and lewis and hopeful Bush and I believe we are well on our way to the playoffs within a few years. I am no fan of Quinn but I really hope he lives up to this hype definatly willing to give him a shot

JSimmsy21
04-29-2007, 04:40 PM
Would anyone be mad if we traded for Randy Moss to help out Brady Quinn?

i would have loved it, but we're not going to b/c he's a Pat now. and we didnt have the 4th rnder to give up for him.

Maybe even eyeball Eric Moulds with a cheap 1 year deal to help Brady.

he's F/A isnt he? i'd like it if we tried. he'd be in comp for the number 3 spot tho. him and wilson would have to split timeeither way i'm sure.

kalbears13
04-29-2007, 09:28 PM
Welcome to the Board Ruken!

I think we'll be going for a runningback, guard and defensive tackle in next years draft.

jag
04-29-2007, 09:55 PM
I finally figured out why I like the Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn picks for you guys. This is a rather outlandish statement to say the least, but I see Brady to the Browns, on the same level as Peyton to the Colts. The year before Manning was taken, the Colts had selected Tarrik Glenn, who has been a Franchise LT the past decade. And a few years before that, they had taken Marvin Harrison in the first. Well I look at you guys, and I see who the first round pick before Brady was, (Franchise LT) and how a couple years before you guys took a top WR who just needs someone to throw him the ball. Not too mention you have one of the best TE's in the league.

I see big things on your horizon, and I see it sooner rather than later.

JoeMontainya
04-29-2007, 10:04 PM
We have the QB position set.
The OL positions set.
A solid running back for this year.
A solid #1 WR.
One of the best TE's.

Now we need a good #2/#3 WR and a future back-up/starting RB to replace Jamal once he decides to hang it up.

Our deffense has all the peices except a long term DL.

jag
04-29-2007, 10:08 PM
We have the QB position set.
The OL positions set.
A solid running back for this year.
A solid #1 WR.
One of the best TE's.

Now we need a good #2/#3 WR and a future back-up/starting RB to replace Jamal once he decides to hang it up.

Our deffense has all the peices except a long term DL.

I wouldn't be surprised to see McKnight and Darius Walker sign with you guys now that Quinn's there. I feel Walker is talented enough to be a back-up for you guys at least. And McKnight provides depth and a potential slot guy.

And you guys are another draft or two away under Savage towards being a dominant team. I could see you guys being a wildcard candidate in 08', with a developmental season this year, my best guess is 6-10 to 8-8.

j05son
04-29-2007, 10:14 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see McKnight and Darius Walker sign with you guys now that Quinn's there. I feel Walker is talented enough to be a back-up for you guys at least. And McKnight provides depth and a potential slot guy.

And you guys are another draft or two away under Savage towards being a dominant team. I could see you guys being a wildcard candidate in 08', with a developmental season this year, my best guess is 6-10 to 8-8.

QFT.

Nice post as was your previous one.

We are a team that is defiantly looking up and putting those young expansion years behind us.

6-10 thru 8-8 is very doable barring our recent strand of bad luck and misfortune...

JoeMontainya
04-29-2007, 10:23 PM
Worse case scenario, the Browns underachieve and Romeo is fired. We keep Savage and sign Cower as our coach, the players respond and were in the playoffs for years to come.


Also I heard Braylon Edwards was interviewed by ESPN and looked huge (as in muscle). He (not a quote) said something along the lines that hes glad this team finally has a QB.

jag
04-29-2007, 10:28 PM
Worse case scenario, the Browns underachieve and Romeo is fired. We keep Savage and sign Cower as our coach, the players respond and were in the playoffs for years to come.


Also I heard Braylon Edwards was interviewed by ESPN and looked huge (as in muscle). He (not a quote) said something along the lines that hes glad this team finally has a QB.

I did see that interview and he's built, best shape I've ever seen him in. And he talked about how he's excited to have a qb on board. You could tell he was trying to be nice to Charlie, but he's obviously excited about Brady. And bringing in Cower definitely wouldn't be a bad thing.

kalbears13
04-30-2007, 08:30 PM
Who are our Free Agents going to be for 2007-2008?

Ruken
04-30-2007, 09:23 PM
cower will never coach for us. come on a steelers coach browns team? BRING BACK MARTY!!

JoeMontainya
04-30-2007, 10:44 PM
cower will never coach for us. come on a steelers coach browns team? BRING BACK MARTY!!

Cower played for the Browns in the NFL before he was ever a Steeler. Cower started his coaching career with the Browns before he was ever a Steeler. Its rumored that if he would come back, were towards the top of his list.

TRich28
05-02-2007, 05:58 PM
It has been said that Cowher, if and when he comes back to coaching, wants to coach the Browns, Panthers or Chiefs. If I come across the page where I read this, I will post it on here.

Anyway, I am wondering, since Jamal Lewis is only signed for one year and the lack of a Browns 1st round pick next year, what are the odds that the Browns will go hard after Michael Turner when he becomes an unrestricted free agent next year (of course, provided he doesn't get injured this year)?

TRich28
05-02-2007, 06:12 PM
Who are our Free Agents going to be for 2007-2008?
UFA:
WR Tim Carter (?signed a 2 year contract before the 06 season-UFA or RFA?)
QB Ken Dorsey
OT Nat Dorsey
C/G Lennie Friedman
DT Ethan Kelley
S Jeremy LeSueur
RB Jamal Lewis
C/G Seth McKinney
LS Ryan Pontbriand
FB Alan Ricard
LB Matt Stewart
LB Chaun Thompson
DT Ted Washington

RFA:
S Ben Emanuel
DE Simon Fraser
CB Daven Holly
TE Ryan Krause
LB Mason Unck

ERFA:
QB Derek Anderson
DE Orien Harris
G Fred Matua
DT J'Vonne Parker
DB Jereme Perry
LB Clifton Smith

These are according to the contract information specified on rotoworld.com. I cannot vouch for its accuracy.

keylime_5
05-02-2007, 06:14 PM
I would love Mike Turner, he would complete our offense. However teams without feature backs that are in the same boat as us like Tennessee and Green Bay have just as much if not more cap room and have gone hard (that's what she said) at Turner this year, and I'd expect the same next March. That's why I'm pessimistic that we'll get Burner Turner.

As for Cowher, he has said that he wants to see his daughter graduate before he considers coaching again. If he keeps his word then that means no Cowher until 2009 earliest. However if some team throws a bundle of cash including a head coaching spot and a GM spot to go with it he might bite. I'm content with Savage at GM if we were to fire Romeo, but Jeff Fisher and Marty Schottenheimer would be good hires if that happened.

TRich28
05-02-2007, 06:21 PM
I would love Mike Turner, he would complete our offense. However teams without feature backs that are in the same boat as us like Tennessee and Green Bay have just as much if not more cap room and have gone hard (that's what she said) at Turner this year, and I'd expect the same next March. That's why I'm pessimistic that we'll get Burner Turner.
That's true. I was just going on the fact that Tennessee drafted Chris Henry to go with LenDale White & Green Bay drafted Brandon Jackson and DeShawn Wynn. With those teams still having 1st round picks next year, they may decide to go after RBs in the draft like Mike Hart, Rafael Little, Lynell Hamilton or any juniors who declare (Darren McFadden, Steve Slaton, Jonathan Stewart, etc) rather than signing Turner for big money. But, you are probably correct, the Browns would probably have to compete with those two teams, among others.

As for Cowher, he has said that he wants to see his daughter graduate before he considers coaching again. If he keeps his word then that means no Cowher until 2009 earliest. However if some team throws a bundle of cash including a head coaching spot and a GM spot to go with it he might bite. I'm content with Savage at GM if we were to fire Romeo, but Jeff Fisher and Marty Schottenheimer would be good hires if that happened.
Personally, I would much rather see Jeff Fisher coaching the Browns than I would Bill Cowher. Maybe it's just the fact that I cannot get over him coaching the Steelers. :)

keylime_5
05-02-2007, 06:27 PM
One point you bring to my attention is the fact that only so many teams need backs, and with Turner and maybe even Julius Jones or Larry Johnson being available and possibly joining new teams next year before that draft that is loaded with a deep class of quality backs, chances are good that we pick up at least one guy next year.

I still believe strongly that Turner will go to either Tennesse or Green Bay, but if that does happen that means that one less back will probably go in round one. Darren McFadden is a top 10 pick, Jonathan Stewart and Felix Jones will probably be first rounders too. But one of those two could slide, and these guys will probably be second round picks: James Davis, Steve Slaton, Mike Hart, and Ray Rice. If we resign Jamal Lewis we could get a quality back to split carries in round 2.

Personally I'd love to see us sporting Felix Jones or James Davis in the 2nd.

kalbears13
05-02-2007, 06:29 PM
UFA:
WR Tim Carter (?signed a 2 year contract before the 06 season-UFA or RFA?)
QB Ken Dorsey
OT Nat Dorsey
C/G Lennie Friedman
DT Ethan Kelley
S Jeremy LeSueur
RB Jamal Lewis
C/G Seth McKinney
LS Ryan Pontbriand
FB Alan Ricard
LB Matt Stewart
LB Chaun Thompson
DT Ted Washington

RFA:
S Ben Emanuel
DE Simon Fraser
CB Daven Holly
TE Ryan Krause
LB Mason Unck

ERFA:
QB Derek Anderson
DE Orien Harris
G Fred Matua
DT J'Vonne Parker
DB Jereme Perry
LB Clifton Smith

These are according to the contract information specified on rotoworld.com. I cannot vouch for its accuracy.

Thanks TRich, The only UFA that i'm worried about losing is Ryan Pontbriand and hopefully we find a RB and a DT in the DT rich draft next year.

keylime_5
05-02-2007, 07:02 PM
It's good that we won't have to worry about losing a good player to free agency until Jones and Winslow's contracts start to run out. But I suspect we'll resign those guys before their contract years.

mcdlaxbonz13
05-02-2007, 09:49 PM
isn't greg jones's conract up, the FB from jacksonvile, i know i would love to see him in cleveland

twotondawg
05-02-2007, 09:55 PM
I saw Braylon on ESPN, he does look to be in good shape. But hopefully he doesn't get too big. I can site two players who got too big and their lower bodies couldn't hold up. Courtney Brown and David Boston. Lift in moderation Braylon!

Hail Browns
05-02-2007, 10:19 PM
I saw Braylon on ESPN, he does look to be in good shape. But hopefully he doesn't get too big. I can site two players who got too big and their lower bodies couldn't hold up. Courtney Brown and David Boston. Lift in moderation Braylon!

LOL. You just made lifting sound like alcohol. Ok, now I've gotta sleep.

j05son
05-02-2007, 10:24 PM
As for the coaching change; I want Romeo to continue to be our coach. Yes he pisses me off with his "it'll be okay" attitude and lack of emotion on the sidelines...He seems competent enough to help us win, and I like our assistants a lot. If we get a new head coach, we could lose those assistants easily.

For once, I would love to have an OC that is around for the next decade or so that our team won't have to learn a new playbook or style every other year.

Stability in our coaching staff will be better in the long run...Not leasing them for two years like cars....

tbraton
05-03-2007, 11:08 AM
According to Triv, Phil offered the HC job to 2 guys in the early off-season but they turned it down............

Hail Browns
05-03-2007, 02:53 PM
isn't greg jones's conract up, the FB from jacksonvile, i know i would love to see him in cleveland

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing him run people over for us.

kalbears13
05-03-2007, 05:55 PM
According to Triv, Phil offered the HC job to 2 guys in the early off-season but they turned it down............

I didn't know it was Phil's job to choose the coaches...

RoyHall#1
05-03-2007, 06:02 PM
I didn't know it was Phil's job to choose the coaches...

see ignore tbraton thread...

tbraton
05-06-2007, 04:49 PM
Posted on Sun, May. 06, 2007email thisprint this
Savage puts high priority on Browns' offensive line
By Terry Pluto
Before deciding what to do with the No. 3 pick in the NFL Draft, General Manager Phil Savage asked himself some questions.

The Browns ranked 31st out of 32 teams running the ball; is drafting a quarterback the best way to address this problem?

The Browns ranked 29th out of 32 teams in stopping the run; how does drafting a quarterback impact that?

The Browns' offensive line has been a problem for years. The key position is the left tackle. Since returning in 1999, the following have been the main starters: Lomas Brown (1999), Roman Oben (2000), Ross Verba (2001-2002), Barry Stokes (2003), Verba (2004), L.J. Shelton (2005) and Kevin Shaffer (2006). At best, the incumbent Shaffer was rated average. How does drafting a quarterback change that when the Browns have had six starting left tackles in eight years?

As the general manager realized: ``Our offensive line was in much worse shape than our quarterback position. If we could fix the line, that will help us run the ball better. If we run better, we probably will pass better. If we run and pass better, that should help the defense defend the run because they won't be on the field as much.''

So two weeks before the draft, Savage decided he was picking Wisconsin left tackle Joe Thomas. He didn't tell anyone. He figured quarterback JaMarcus Russell would go first, and that wide receiver Calvin Johnson would be picked second -- by the Detroit Lions, who would keep Johnson or trade him. In the end, the Browns would be looking at Adrian Peterson, Brady Quinn or Thomas with the third pick.

As the Browns considered the third pick, it's believed that they had the players ranked this way: 1) Thomas. 2) Peterson. 3) Quinn. They told Quinn the night before the draft that he would not be their No. 3 pick. It was a wise move, because Quinn respected their honesty, and it kept him from getting his hopes too high. Then, when the Browns traded for him, he felt better about the organization because of the communication before the draft.

The Browns gave serious thought to Peterson, the star running back from Oklahoma. There was some concern about his physical problems, but that wasn't why they backed off in favor of Thomas. It came down to this: THEY HAD TO FIX THE LINE. They made a major move signing free agent Eric Steinbach to play left guard; now they wanted to finish the job.

The Browns thought veteran running back Jamal Lewis could buy them time as a presence in the backfield as they put their draft picks and free-agent money into the offensive line. You can't get everything all at once, and for too long, Savage believed that the line had been ignored. He believes that there is usually only one top left tackle in every draft, and Thomas was it. Next year, they might not be in position to draft the best left tackle.

The Browns don't believe that Thomas will immediately be a great left tackle. That's a lot to ask of any rookie at such a demanding position, where he usually has to block the best pass rusher on each team. But they see him as smart, tough and experienced. He can be good right away. He's not quite as athletic as Jonathan Ogden, nor as strong as Tony Boselli, two elite left tackles. But he has more than enough strength and quickness to start immediately. They do believe that he'll make as much an impact as D'Brickashaw Ferguson did with the New York Jets this season. Ferguson was the top left tackle in the 2006 draft.

The Browns are in no rush to deal Shaffer, last year's left tackle. Nor do they see him as a candidate for the open right guard spot. They believe that he is a tackle. They have had some conversations about moving Ryan Tucker from tackle to right guard, and playing Shaffer at right tackle. They believe that Tucker might be a better fit at right guard than Shaffer.

With all the injuries on the offensive line over the years, Savage is reluctant to trade any of his veteran offensive linemen. If they do trade Shaffer, they will want, at least, a first-day draft pick in return (something in the first three rounds).

Savage believes that the Browns have real depth at guard. If Tucker is past his emotional problems, he's a possibility. He also gives depth at tackle, as the Browns have three -- Thomas, Tucker and Shaffer -- for two spots. Steinbach is the left guard. The Browns believe that veteran Seth McKinney can start at guard, assuming he's fully recovered from the neck injury that sidelined him last year. They say Isaac Sowells (fourth-rounder, 2006) has made progress and is also in the picture. McKinney also can backup center Hank Fraley. They have veteran Lennie Friedman to backup several spots. ``I wanted to get several experienced guys,'' Savage said. ``I'm starting to feel good about this.''

Talkin' Quinn

Savage will not say where he had Quinn ranked on his draft board. He had been saying Quinn was in the Top 5 for months before the draft, so that's probably the case. As the draft opened, he never imagined being able to come up with Quinn and Thomas. As the draft approached and he had decided on Thomas, his focus was on finding help at cornerback.

Before the draft, Savage didn't talk about the need for a cornerback. It was obvious the Browns were thin at that spot -- only Leigh Bodden is a viable starter. But Savage didn't want other teams to know how this concerned him, and how his second-round pick would probably be a cornerback.

Then Quinn began to drop and drop and drop in the draft. And Savage realized that this was a chance that he might not have a year from now. He refused to call Quinn a ``franchise'' quarterback. Why pin that label on him? So few quarterbacks live up to that hype. He had been through so many quarterbacks with the Baltimore Ravens, he knew how the position is so demanding. He also knew how the Browns have been through so many quarterbacks since 1999. But he also believed that Quinn can be a solid starter for many years, so he began calling teams for a deal.

A trade eventually was made with the Dallas Cowboys -- the No. 1 in 2008 and the No. 2 in 2007 for the Cowboys' 22nd pick to take Quinn. The Cowboys had Quinn ranked No. 8 on their board, and some members of the Dallas media wonder why the team didn't take Quinn and forget the trade. It's not as if Tony Romo is John Elway, but the Cowboys wanted the picks instead.

There is no rush to start Quinn. The front office believes that in some ways, Charlie Frye was given a very difficult assignment. He has had two offensive coordinators in two years while playing behind a patched-up line. The first coordinator, Maurice Carthon, liked a drop-back quarterback with a strong arm. That's not Frye, who is best throwing on the move. The offense often didn't suit him. When Carthon was fired at midseason, it was too late to make serious adjustments.

The Browns believe that new offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski can suit an offense to help Frye and nurture Quinn. Just as at left tackle, the Browns need to settle on an offensive coordinator. They have had seven men in the past eight years calling the plays.

The only concern Savage had in making the trade was NOT so much the No. 1 pick in 2008. It was the second-rounder in 2007, and how that would prevent him from finding a cornerback. But he thought a chance to get Quinn was worth the gamble.

Talkin' Wright

The Browns believed there were five cornerbacks available who could help: Darrelle Revis, Leon Hall, Aaron Ross, Eric Wright and Reggie Nelson. Nelson was a safety at the University of Florida, but the Browns thought that he could play cornerback.

By the end of the first round, Revis, Hall, Ross and Nelson were gone. Wright was definitely No. 5 on their list. But he represented the last hope for the Browns to find someone who had, at least, a chance to start sometime as a rookie. The other cornerbacks available had a significant flaw -- lack of speed, size, something -- that would prevent them from playing soon.

The Browns knew about the date-rape charge against Wright, that had been dropped. They interviewed him at length in Cleveland. They did an extensive background check. As Savage said, ``He went to an all-boys high school and was an honor student. He had no problems before (the 2005 incident), and none since. I'm not excusing what happened, but this has not been a pattern of behavior for him.''

As the second round progressed, Wright remained available. Teams were concerned about the character questions, especially with the NFL's new get-tough policy. Because of the Quinn trade, the Browns had no second-rounder. If Wright somehow remained on the board for the third round, the Browns planned to take him. Savage then called his new best friend, Cowboys owner Jerry Jones. They had just made the Quinn trade -- giving the Cowboys two second-rounders. Now Savage wanted one back.

Another deal was cut: the Cowboys would take Wright with the 53rd pick. The Browns would give their third- and fourth-rounders to the Cowboys and also flip picks in the sixth round. Because they planned to take Wright in the third round, they viewed the trade as just giving up the fourth-round pick to move up and get Wright.

The Browns' biggest concern about Wright is he has not played that much college football. He was a redshirt freshman at USC, where he started four games. Then he transferred to UNLV, sat out a year, played nine games -- missing three with a knee injury. So that's 13 college starts.

The Browns say Wright has a lot of natural talent, and he proved it by starting four games as a redshirt freshman at USC. But his experience is limited, and a key will be the coaching of Mel Tucker, who drew praise for keeping the injury-ravaged defensive backfield functioning last season.

The Browns hope ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. is correct when he wrote after the draft: ``Wright has first-round talent... you could argue he's better than Leon Hall and Darrelle Revis -- but slid because of character issues.'' If the Browns are correct on Wright's attitude, this trade could be just at important as the Quinn deal, given the desperate state of their cornerbacks.

j05son
05-06-2007, 10:21 PM
Posted on Sun, May. 06, 2007email thisprint this
Savage puts high priority on Browns' offensive line
By Terry Pluto
Before deciding what to do with the No. 3 pick in the NFL Draft, General Manager Phil Savage asked himself some questions.

The Browns ranked 31st out of 32 teams running the ball; is drafting a quarterback the best way to address this problem?

The Browns ranked 29th out of 32 teams in stopping the run; how does drafting a quarterback impact that?

The Browns' offensive line has been a problem for years. The key position is the left tackle. Since returning in 1999, the following have been the main starters: Lomas Brown (1999), Roman Oben (2000), Ross Verba (2001-2002), Barry Stokes (2003), Verba (2004), L.J. Shelton (2005) and Kevin Shaffer (2006). At best, the incumbent Shaffer was rated average. How does drafting a quarterback change that when the Browns have had six starting left tackles in eight years?

As the general manager realized: ``Our offensive line was in much worse shape than our quarterback position. If we could fix the line, that will help us run the ball better. If we run better, we probably will pass better. If we run and pass better, that should help the defense defend the run because they won't be on the field as much.''

So two weeks before the draft, Savage decided he was picking Wisconsin left tackle Joe Thomas. He didn't tell anyone. He figured quarterback JaMarcus Russell would go first, and that wide receiver Calvin Johnson would be picked second -- by the Detroit Lions, who would keep Johnson or trade him. In the end, the Browns would be looking at Adrian Peterson, Brady Quinn or Thomas with the third pick.

As the Browns considered the third pick, it's believed that they had the players ranked this way: 1) Thomas. 2) Peterson. 3) Quinn. They told Quinn the night before the draft that he would not be their No. 3 pick. It was a wise move, because Quinn respected their honesty, and it kept him from getting his hopes too high. Then, when the Browns traded for him, he felt better about the organization because of the communication before the draft.

The Browns gave serious thought to Peterson, the star running back from Oklahoma. There was some concern about his physical problems, but that wasn't why they backed off in favor of Thomas. It came down to this: THEY HAD TO FIX THE LINE. They made a major move signing free agent Eric Steinbach to play left guard; now they wanted to finish the job.

The Browns thought veteran running back Jamal Lewis could buy them time as a presence in the backfield as they put their draft picks and free-agent money into the offensive line. You can't get everything all at once, and for too long, Savage believed that the line had been ignored. He believes that there is usually only one top left tackle in every draft, and Thomas was it. Next year, they might not be in position to draft the best left tackle.

The Browns don't believe that Thomas will immediately be a great left tackle. That's a lot to ask of any rookie at such a demanding position, where he usually has to block the best pass rusher on each team. But they see him as smart, tough and experienced. He can be good right away. He's not quite as athletic as Jonathan Ogden, nor as strong as Tony Boselli, two elite left tackles. But he has more than enough strength and quickness to start immediately. They do believe that he'll make as much an impact as D'Brickashaw Ferguson did with the New York Jets this season. Ferguson was the top left tackle in the 2006 draft.

The Browns are in no rush to deal Shaffer, last year's left tackle. Nor do they see him as a candidate for the open right guard spot. They believe that he is a tackle. They have had some conversations about moving Ryan Tucker from tackle to right guard, and playing Shaffer at right tackle. They believe that Tucker might be a better fit at right guard than Shaffer.

With all the injuries on the offensive line over the years, Savage is reluctant to trade any of his veteran offensive linemen. If they do trade Shaffer, they will want, at least, a first-day draft pick in return (something in the first three rounds).

Savage believes that the Browns have real depth at guard. If Tucker is past his emotional problems, he's a possibility. He also gives depth at tackle, as the Browns have three -- Thomas, Tucker and Shaffer -- for two spots. Steinbach is the left guard. The Browns believe that veteran Seth McKinney can start at guard, assuming he's fully recovered from the neck injury that sidelined him last year. They say Isaac Sowells (fourth-rounder, 2006) has made progress and is also in the picture. McKinney also can backup center Hank Fraley. They have veteran Lennie Friedman to backup several spots. ``I wanted to get several experienced guys,'' Savage said. ``I'm starting to feel good about this.''

Talkin' Quinn

Savage will not say where he had Quinn ranked on his draft board. He had been saying Quinn was in the Top 5 for months before the draft, so that's probably the case. As the draft opened, he never imagined being able to come up with Quinn and Thomas. As the draft approached and he had decided on Thomas, his focus was on finding help at cornerback.

Before the draft, Savage didn't talk about the need for a cornerback. It was obvious the Browns were thin at that spot -- only Leigh Bodden is a viable starter. But Savage didn't want other teams to know how this concerned him, and how his second-round pick would probably be a cornerback.

Then Quinn began to drop and drop and drop in the draft. And Savage realized that this was a chance that he might not have a year from now. He refused to call Quinn a ``franchise'' quarterback. Why pin that label on him? So few quarterbacks live up to that hype. He had been through so many quarterbacks with the Baltimore Ravens, he knew how the position is so demanding. He also knew how the Browns have been through so many quarterbacks since 1999. But he also believed that Quinn can be a solid starter for many years, so he began calling teams for a deal.

A trade eventually was made with the Dallas Cowboys -- the No. 1 in 2008 and the No. 2 in 2007 for the Cowboys' 22nd pick to take Quinn. The Cowboys had Quinn ranked No. 8 on their board, and some members of the Dallas media wonder why the team didn't take Quinn and forget the trade. It's not as if Tony Romo is John Elway, but the Cowboys wanted the picks instead.

There is no rush to start Quinn. The front office believes that in some ways, Charlie Frye was given a very difficult assignment. He has had two offensive coordinators in two years while playing behind a patched-up line. The first coordinator, Maurice Carthon, liked a drop-back quarterback with a strong arm. That's not Frye, who is best throwing on the move. The offense often didn't suit him. When Carthon was fired at midseason, it was too late to make serious adjustments.

The Browns believe that new offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski can suit an offense to help Frye and nurture Quinn. Just as at left tackle, the Browns need to settle on an offensive coordinator. They have had seven men in the past eight years calling the plays.

The only concern Savage had in making the trade was NOT so much the No. 1 pick in 2008. It was the second-rounder in 2007, and how that would prevent him from finding a cornerback. But he thought a chance to get Quinn was worth the gamble.

Talkin' Wright

The Browns believed there were five cornerbacks available who could help: Darrelle Revis, Leon Hall, Aaron Ross, Eric Wright and Reggie Nelson. Nelson was a safety at the University of Florida, but the Browns thought that he could play cornerback.

By the end of the first round, Revis, Hall, Ross and Nelson were gone. Wright was definitely No. 5 on their list. But he represented the last hope for the Browns to find someone who had, at least, a chance to start sometime as a rookie. The other cornerbacks available had a significant flaw -- lack of speed, size, something -- that would prevent them from playing soon.

The Browns knew about the date-rape charge against Wright, that had been dropped. They interviewed him at length in Cleveland. They did an extensive background check. As Savage said, ``He went to an all-boys high school and was an honor student. He had no problems before (the 2005 incident), and none since. I'm not excusing what happened, but this has not been a pattern of behavior for him.''

As the second round progressed, Wright remained available. Teams were concerned about the character questions, especially with the NFL's new get-tough policy. Because of the Quinn trade, the Browns had no second-rounder. If Wright somehow remained on the board for the third round, the Browns planned to take him. Savage then called his new best friend, Cowboys owner Jerry Jones. They had just made the Quinn trade -- giving the Cowboys two second-rounders. Now Savage wanted one back.

Another deal was cut: the Cowboys would take Wright with the 53rd pick. The Browns would give their third- and fourth-rounders to the Cowboys and also flip picks in the sixth round. Because they planned to take Wright in the third round, they viewed the trade as just giving up the fourth-round pick to move up and get Wright.

The Browns' biggest concern about Wright is he has not played that much college football. He was a redshirt freshman at USC, where he started four games. Then he transferred to UNLV, sat out a year, played nine games -- missing three with a knee injury. So that's 13 college starts.

The Browns say Wright has a lot of natural talent, and he proved it by starting four games as a redshirt freshman at USC. But his experience is limited, and a key will be the coaching of Mel Tucker, who drew praise for keeping the injury-ravaged defensive backfield functioning last season.

The Browns hope ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. is correct when he wrote after the draft: ``Wright has first-round talent... you could argue he's better than Leon Hall and Darrelle Revis -- but slid because of character issues.'' If the Browns are correct on Wright's attitude, this trade could be just at important as the Quinn deal, given the desperate state of their cornerbacks.

Good post.

RoyHall#1
05-07-2007, 08:20 AM
Good post.

Probably because he didn't write it...

tbraton
05-07-2007, 08:33 AM
Probably because he didn't write it...

No, but I read it......I read more football, so I know more football......HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! All you boys do is look at pictures of BQ and dream about playing "touch football" with him..........

Hail Browns
05-07-2007, 09:17 PM
Probably because he didn't write it...

Wow, that wasn't very nice. I actually read that article in the paper, I think the Akron Beacon Journal, so it was nothing new to me.

JoeMontainya
05-07-2007, 10:04 PM
Probably because he didn't write it...

You get post of the week for sure.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 04:11 PM
Question for all you Browns fans.

I got my Brady Quinn jersey in the mail today. It is glorious. Anyway, what does the "AL" on the left sleeve stand for?

JoeMontainya
05-09-2007, 05:31 PM
Question for all you Browns fans.

I got my Brady Quinn jersey in the mail today. It is glorious. Anyway, what does the "AL" on the left sleeve stand for?

AL = Al Lerner, he passed away. Now I believe Randy Lerner took over as the Browns owner, he is Al's son.





Alfred "Al" Lerner (May 8, 1933—October 23, 2002) was an American billionaire. Born in Brooklyn, New York, Lerner was the son of Russian immigrants. He attended Columbia University. He served in the United States Marine Corps from 1955 to 1957.

Later in his life Lerner became chairman of MBNA Bank. He also owned the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League, after purchasing the rights to the team in 1998. Prior to that in 1995 he assisted his friend at the time Art Modell, former owner of the Browns, in moving Modell's NFL franchise rights from Cleveland to Baltimore. After his death, his son, Randy took over the Browns franchise. Lerner's initials are stitched on the shoulders of the Browns jerseys.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 05:34 PM
Cools thanks for the info. Was just wondering. Now if someone asks me, I'm not completely clueless.

RoyHall#1
05-09-2007, 07:07 PM
Does it stand for Al or Alfred Lerner?

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 07:09 PM
Does it stand for Al or Alfred Lerner?

I'm guessing Al Lerner. Because the A and the L are interlocking and not side by side.

RoyHall#1
05-09-2007, 07:16 PM
All right, not really sure why I asked that as I really don't care... Lost is on tonite!

ruthlessrussian
05-10-2007, 09:02 PM
Just wanted to give the Browns some love. Great job in the off-season. You guys should definitely push for the the#2 spot in the AFC North behind the ravens. If I have to hear one more cowboys fan talk about how there getting McFadden Im gonna puke. There is no way youll even finish in the top 10 next year!

RoyHall#1
05-11-2007, 09:09 AM
Just wanted to give the Browns some love. Great job in the off-season. You guys should definitely push for the the#2 spot in the AFC North behind the ravens. If I have to hear one more cowboys fan talk about how there getting McFadden Im gonna puke. There is no way youll even finish in the top 10 next year!

Thank you, although I don't see a scenario happening this year where we finish ahead of Cincy, who I think will win the division.

757Dawg
05-12-2007, 01:38 AM
Thank you, although I don't see a scenario happening this year where we finish ahead of Cincy, who I think will win the division.
I don't know, I think Cincinnati is pretty overrated.

Their offense should be among the league's most potent as usual, but I am not sold on their defense whatsoever.

The DL is probably the best part of the D, and even so...they're not as good as Bengal fans like to think. Their DE tandem with Smith and Geathers is good, but there is a lot of age in that DT core. Sam Adams will be 34 and he is much like Ted in the sense he can only be counted on for limited snaps. John Thornton was AWFUL last year and he'll be 31 before too long. Domato Peko is a good young player, but behind him their next option is Michael Myers. Needless to say, the DT play obviously won't improve, so teams should be ready to run straight at them.

Their LB core is extremely weak. They better pray Ed Hartwell bounces back and some of those young nobodies can step up. No play making LBs at all.

The secondary has potential with Joseph and Hall, but they are both very young. Deltha O'Neal's play has dropped considerably, so those two young corners should be forced into action early and often.

All in all, this team isn't nearly as impressive as it's been in recent years. The offense will have to carry them again because that defense isn't going to win any games.

That was probably longer than I wanted it to be, but whatever. Bottom line, Cincy doesn't scare nor impress me.

RoyHall#1
05-12-2007, 12:39 PM
Maybe their defense doesn't scare you, but their offense is no doubt the best in the AFC north.

Hail Browns
05-13-2007, 03:02 PM
Maybe their defense doesn't scare you, but their offense is no doubt the best in the AFC north.

True, I don't think the defense will "scare" anyone. However, it should be adequate for dealing with the other teams in this division. The AFC North doesn't really look to have any potent offenses except for Cinci's.

Shere Khan
05-13-2007, 03:15 PM
Just wanted to give the Browns some love. Great job in the off-season. You guys should definitely push for the the#2 spot in the AFC North behind the ravens.

Behind the Ravens?

Are you for real?

What about us?

Shere Khan
05-13-2007, 03:18 PM
[QUOTE=757Dawg;390510]I don't know, I think Cincinnati is pretty overrated.

QUOTE]


We're overrated?

Yeah, that same overrated defense that shut your squad out and was 2 minutes away from shutting out the Ravens.

RIIIIGHT.

Had Pollack not been injured and O'Dell not pulling a Stanley Wilson on us, our defense would've fared a LOT better.

Look out for Ahmad Brooks this year, that's all I have to say.


What does that say about your team if you let our umimpressive Defense (paraphrasing) shut you out?

Hail Browns
05-13-2007, 03:19 PM
Behind the Ravens?

Are you for real?

What about us?

Apparently he doesn't like convicts. I think you guys take 2nd though.

Shere Khan
05-13-2007, 03:48 PM
Apparently he doesn't like convicts. I think you guys take 2nd though.

Not this year.

That Baltimore Defense enjoyed its last hurrah in '06.

I rode that D to my FF title.


No more of that ****.

Bengals are re-claiming the Division this year.

Freddy G
05-13-2007, 07:00 PM
I don't know, I think Cincinnati is pretty overrated.




We're overrated?

Yeah, that same overrated defense that shut your squad out and was 2 minutes away from shutting out the Ravens.

RIIIIGHT.

Had Pollack not been injured and O'Dell not pulling a Stanley Wilson on us, our defense would've fared a LOT better.

Look out for Ahmad Brooks this year, that's all I have to say.


What does that say about your team if you let our umimpressive Defense (paraphrasing) shut you out?

Its says our offense sucks. Di-ta-Di. The fat guys at the bar watching the Browns could shut down our offense. Not much of an accomplishment on the Bengals part.

I am not saying that the Browns are going to beat the Bengals in the division as we still blow, fact remains that the Bengals didn't do squat to improve their team this year, infact they got worse.

They lost their depth at WR, TEs are still useless, Whitworth is no Steinbach, Jones can be beat, and Anderson is long in the tooth. Defense is still bad. Smith is good, but not worth the big money, same with Geathers. Adams is worthless, as is Thorton, but Peko looks good. Brooks is going to be a beast, Hartwell will get hurt and your LBs will be bad again. Hall was an overrated prospect and probably won't contribute much. O'Neal and Joseph should be solid though, Williams is pretty solid as well. Is Jackson still on the team? Doesn't matter, he isn't that good.

Overall, the team as gotten worse and your mix of good (lack there of) vets and youngsters isn't very good in key spots...ie: not much playoff noise, if any.

Hail Browns
05-13-2007, 09:38 PM
Its says our offense sucks. Di-ta-Di. The fat guys at the bar watching the Browns could shut down our offense. Not much of an accomplishment on the Bengals part.

I am not saying that the Browns are going to beat the Bengals in the division as we still blow, fact remains that the Bengals didn't do squat to improve their team this year, infact they got worse.

They lost their depth at WR, TEs are still useless, Whitworth is no Steinbach, Jones can be beat, and Anderson is long in the tooth. Defense is still bad. Smith is good, but not worth the big money, same with Geathers. Adams is worthless, as is Thorton, but Peko looks good. Brooks is going to be a beast, Hartwell will get hurt and your LBs will be bad again. Hall was an overrated prospect and probably won't contribute much. O'Neal and Joseph should be solid though, Williams is pretty solid as well. Is Jackson still on the team? Doesn't matter, he isn't that good.

Overall, the team as gotten worse and your mix of good (lack there of) vets and youngsters isn't very good in key spots...ie: not much playoff noise, if any.

I'm feelin' some serious burnage off that post. Ouch!

JSimmsy21
05-13-2007, 10:01 PM
Its says our offense sucks. Di-ta-Di. The fat guys at the bar watching the Browns could shut down our offense. Not much of an accomplishment on the Bengals part.

I am not saying that the Browns are going to beat the Bengals in the division as we still blow, fact remains that the Bengals didn't do squat to improve their team this year, infact they got worse.

They lost their depth at WR, TEs are still useless, Whitworth is no Steinbach, Jones can be beat, and Anderson is long in the tooth. Defense is still bad. Smith is good, but not worth the big money, same with Geathers. Adams is worthless, as is Thorton, but Peko looks good. Brooks is going to be a beast, Hartwell will get hurt and your LBs will be bad again. Hall was an overrated prospect and probably won't contribute much. O'Neal and Joseph should be solid though, Williams is pretty solid as well. Is Jackson still on the team? Doesn't matter, he isn't that good.

Overall, the team as gotten worse and your mix of good (lack there of) vets and youngsters isn't very good in key spots...ie: not much playoff noise, if any.

i agree, actually, all the other teams in the AFC north didnt do much, if anything, to get better.

Pittsburgh- they cut Porter, and altho they drafted LB's with their first 2 picks, they will not be a Joey Porter their rookie year, if ever. Polomalu its getting concusions left and right, and the same with toothlessburger. and Faneca has made it clear that he wants out. they took a step back on Defense and will shortly will be on Offense.

Baltimore- they drafted an interior lineman, finally, BUT, Ogden thought about retiring this year, so he'll probably do it sometime in the next 2 years since he's already thought about it. so their OL took a step forward, just to take a step back soon. they lost Adalius. and the rest of the D is aging, they will still be dominate, but they took a step back on D as well. but they took a step forward on Offense, for at least one year. how much longer does McNair have it in him? who's taking over for him?

Cincinnati- they got great value with Leon Hall still sitting there. while i agree with most that he's not a great player, he's very solid and can start day one. and he's that good character guy the whole team needs(but since he's the only good character player on the team, they will wear off on him and he'll get arrested sometime i'm sure),and the OL got worse. DL still Sucks. LB's are always questionable on this team. Tory James is gone. but the secondary(for the most party) is still good. they still have 3 very good WR's. Offense they took a step back by loosing Steinbach, and the Defense may have taken a slight step forward.

Cleveland- we have depth at almost all positios now, with young and promising players. but we still suck. our DL is still bad, but it got better. we added Depth to our LB's, CB's, and OL. we upgraded our RB(i dont care if you think Lewis is past his prime, he's better than Droughns) we actually are solidifing our OL, with only one immediate questionable position at RG and a future questionable spot at RT. we took a step foward on Offense and a slight step forward one Defense.

we shoulda have beat Pittsburgh at least once last season, we should be able to do it again. and we gave Baltimore all sorts of problems both times we played them(more so the first game) Palmer owned us. period.

Shere Khan
05-13-2007, 10:29 PM
They lost their depth at WR, TEs are still useless, Whitworth is no Steinbach, Jones can be beat, and Anderson is long in the tooth. Defense is still bad. Smith is good, but not worth the big money, same with Geathers. Adams is worthless, as is Thorton, but Peko looks good. Brooks is going to be a beast, Hartwell will get hurt and your LBs will be bad again. Hall was an overrated prospect and probably won't contribute much. O'Neal and Joseph should be solid though, Williams is pretty solid as well. Is Jackson still on the team? Doesn't matter, he isn't that good.

Overall, the team as gotten worse and your mix of good (lack there of) vets and youngsters isn't very good in key spots...ie: not much playoff noise, if any.

Di-ta-di? Ok, I'll bite.
Sah-dah-tay, my damie.

First, we'd never consider signing Hartwell if he wasn't completely healthy.
He passed his physical and says he's in excellent shape.
That's all I need to know. We also picked up Earl Everett as an UDFA. A lot of Bengals fans were looking at him to be selected in the first day, so to get him like that is a coup. Whitworth is no Steinbach? What makes the Browns evaluators of O-Line talent? You pick our roster for OUR players and have the nerve to talk about our line, just because you got Joe Thomas. Congrats for finally addressing that, btw.

The funny thing is you skipped selecting Steinbach (nice alliteration there if I say so myself) to pick up Jeff Faine. How'd that work out for you?
Whitworth plays like a seasoned vet. He'll get better than he already is. Stacey Andrews and Andrew Whitworth is a great Guard combo.

If JJ got some hands last christmas, I predict he'll have a monster season.
He had like 19 PBU's.
Hall is the cerebral, technical physical CB.
He'll complement Joseph perfectly, IMO.
You admitted Brooks is a beast, so there's that.
And Peko and Geathers will have Big Toe and Frostee Rucker making contributions too.
Madieu will get better this year, as he's looking for a fat contract, and D-Jax will rotate with Ethan Kilmer (beast) and Marvin White in certain situations.
Our Defense will improve greatly this year, count on it.


Henry will be suspended for eight games. He's not lost, he's inactive.
Tab Perry and Antonio Chatman are healthy and will contribute in the 3rd WR slot. They both have contrasting skills/abilities, so depending on the situation you might see either one. For those who don't know who Tab Perry is, he's the kick returner that dragged Ike Taylor 15 yards downfield on some NFL Blitz ****. Perry's a good, physical player. That third WR slot will not miss a beat, please believe it.


I'm done talking, you'll see come regular season.

GiantRutgersFan
05-15-2007, 10:07 PM
Braylon Edwards donated 1 million bucks to start his own charity. its a scholarship program for students.


seems like a good guy and he's a good player.