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RoyHall#1
11-04-2007, 06:07 PM
We've just been screwed.

But we still won.

Ravens1991
11-18-2007, 04:42 PM
GG guys Josh Cribbs is amazing.

Freddy G
11-18-2007, 04:44 PM
Indeed, he is amazing.

That game was about the craziest emotional roller coaster as i have ever been on.

Ravens1991
11-18-2007, 04:46 PM
yea that was a crazy kick by Dawson.

BrownsTown
11-18-2007, 04:58 PM
Never seen anything like it. Unbelievable game.

fenikz
11-18-2007, 05:17 PM
Huge game for both our teams next week, a loss doesn't knock either out of the playoff picture but it sure make it harder

RoyHall#1
11-18-2007, 06:01 PM
Huge game for both our teams next week, a loss doesn't knock either out of the playoff picture but it sure make it harder

Regardless of next week's outcome, the only way the Brown's miss the playoffs now is if we play ridiculously bad the rest of the season. Our schedule is easy.

fenikz
11-18-2007, 06:17 PM
guess its in 2 weeks not next week, we got the 49ers home

RoyHall#1
11-18-2007, 06:34 PM
guess its in 2 weeks not next week, we got the 49ers home

Yeah, guess we have the Texans. They're a lot better than their record too.

Freddy G
11-18-2007, 07:02 PM
Andre Johnson is going to tear us a new one.

Ravens1991
11-18-2007, 07:11 PM
Never seen anything like it. Unbelievable game.

I was surprised either coach didnt go ape poop, I thought Billick would have becaue technically you couldnt review a FG, but then the FG clearly went in so I could understand if Romeo didnt get mad

keylime_5
11-18-2007, 09:14 PM
Andre Johnson is going to tear us a new one.

Not necessarily, Crennel's umbrella defense tends to not give up deep down field plays....I mean we contained Randy Moss and gave New England it's worst offensive day of the year save the Indy game. I'm confident we'll beat Houston at home. Braylon Edwards, Joe Jurevicius, Kellen Winslow, and Derek Anderson should handle the Texans secondary of Von Hutchins, Fred Bennett, CC Brown, and Will Demps. Houston's strength on D is their front 4, and our O-Line has seen much better fronts already and protected well against them. Browns win next week IMO, 31-20.

Iamcanadian
11-18-2007, 09:34 PM
Next week could be a trap game. We've been sky high for Pittsburgh and Baltimore for the last 2 weeks. The team may think they can beat Houston easily and be flat emotionally. It is a classic trap game so be prepared.

Freddy G
11-18-2007, 10:34 PM
Oh, i don't think Houston will win, but that doesn't mean Andre will not tear us a a new one (see Chad Johnson).

And yes, it is a big time trap game, more so than St. Louis, imo.

j05son
11-18-2007, 11:56 PM
I was surprised either coach didnt go ape poop, I thought Billick would have becaue technically you couldnt review a FG, but then the FG clearly went in so I could understand if Romeo didnt get mad

I don't think they reviewed it. They discussed it, and the ref went over to review but it looks like he just talked to the officials upstairs. I'm sure one of those officials told him it was past the crossbar...

That was one of the most awkward plays I've ever seen.

d34ng3l021
11-19-2007, 03:06 AM
Man. I really wanna be a Browns fan right now. The situation you have with your offense is so amazing. Edwards and Winslow are amazing. Thomas is a beast. Steinbach is so good. Derek Anderson will get overpaid for this offseason and you guys will get a couple of good picks out of it. Quinn will shine.

Sigh.

j05son
11-25-2007, 03:47 PM
Brandon McDonald had a nice game today...Esp against Andre Johnson. A recovering Andre Johnson, but none-the-less...

mcdlaxbonz13
11-25-2007, 10:26 PM
agreed he still performed extremely well i won't lie i was very impressed by how he played and i think our corner stiuation is looking extremely good for the future

Rob S
12-15-2007, 10:02 PM
hey, just want to wish you guys luck. Huge game this weekend, I actually usually like the browns because they play in a tough climate. and have the same problems the bills do with the threat of relocation looming above buffalo. Plus we both need to stick together because if you added our win columns from the past few years we still probably would have missed playoffs haha. Anyway, good luck and may the best team, at least this will be done the right way, in freezing temp. and the snow.

Billingsley26
12-15-2007, 10:48 PM
hey, just want to wish you guys luck. Huge game this weekend, I actually usually like the browns because they play in a tough climate. and have the same problems the bills do with the threat of relocation looming above buffalo. Plus we both need to stick together because if you added our win columns from the past few years we still probably would have missed playoffs haha. Anyway, good luck and may the best team, at least this will be done the right way, in freezing temp. and the snow.

Yea Im getting stoked, hyped and Im up for this game already. I speak for both of us when I say that a) who would have thought that a game with BUF at CLE on Dec 16th would be very meaningful and b) we never had the slightest thought of this happening. I cant wait for tomorrow, and I cant wait for the weather.

HOW BAD DO YOU WANT IT?
HOW BAD DO YOU NEED IT?
CAUSE IF YOU WANT IT ALL YOU GOTTA LAY IT ALL OUT ON THE LINE!

JSimmsy21
12-20-2007, 06:11 PM
Bentleys contract has been shortened by three years making him a free agent after the 2008 season. The contract was also renegotiated so he makes the league minimum, but with incentives, can make what he was supposed to make.

Also, Gary Baxter is also in the same situation, but he is a fee agent after this season now.

I read that next offseason, we are like 10th or higher in cap space, but now we should be even higher, much higher. Mabye another huge fee agent is in the mix now, tarrell suggs mabye.

Freddy G
12-21-2007, 11:08 AM
I don't think that their adjusted contracts will actually affect the cap number that much. They already have they're guranteed money, and that is what really makes the cap hits. It may save us a couple mil, but i don't think it will make a huge difference.

Also, we need to maintain our cap space as we have K2, Braylon, Derek, and Sean Jones to take care of soon iirc.

JSimmsy21
01-11-2008, 07:47 PM
Todd Grantham is gone! YES!



PLEASE, REX RYAN, PLEASE!!!

mcdlaxbonz13
01-13-2008, 12:48 AM
nope mel tucker, can't complain though i liked what he has done with our secondary guys, hopefully he can do the same with everyone else

JSimmsy21
01-13-2008, 01:47 AM
nope mel tucker, can't complain though i liked what he has done with our secondary guys, hopefully he can do the same with everyone else

yea, i dontmind the mel tucker promotion either. mabye he knows what "blitz" means when its 3rd and long and not "prevent."

on a side note, i just signed up for a year subscription for the OBR. i'm drunikand spending money. so i'm going to do my best to keep everyone updated as much as possible. but im not going to cope and past anything for legal purposes. but i will be very specific about what an article says. heres what i got so far.

WR steve sanders has left our practice squad and is testing the open market. we then signed WR kevin kasper to the squad. kasper was drafted by the broncos in 2001 in the 6th rnd.

in addition to signing kasper, we help tryouts for Darian Barnes (Hampton) and Ciatrick Fason (Florida); quarterback Jason Fife (Oregon); wide receiver Chas Gessner (Brown); guard Jake Kuresa (BYU); defensive tackle Rien Long (Washington St); nose tackle Jonas Seawright (North Carolina); linebacker Gavin Walls (Arkansas); and defensive back Rashad Washington (Kansas St).

QB Fife was the backup to Joey Harrington at Oregon; then, when Harrington declared for the NFL, Fife split the starting QB duties with Kellen Clemens.

chat with Adam Caplan:
Caplan says:
-upgrading front seven will happen
-Ethan Kelley will be resigned, to be rotated with shaun smith. Leonard, McKinney, Thompson are all mabyes.
-browns want to keep DA for at least this year, but also would love to trade him for a top 10 pick
-a big name F/A DT wont happen. if anything it will happen in the draft. DE is the major concern. Kelley and Smith are fine at NT.
-talks of teams interested in DA havnet started. they probably wont be untill senior bowl week, for free agency.
-dont expect a F/A RB this year. expect Lewis' replacement in this year or next years draft.
-F/A DT/DE Marques Douglas is a good fit for us.
-lance briggs has less than a 0% chance of coming to Cleveland.
-we will see depth at LB and DL in the draft.
-suggs will be frachised, if not anything else.
-caplan feels that the first F/A or positions that savage will target will be DL depth, LB depth, WE, OL depth(mabye). he'd like to see McKinney back. ( i dont now if theres a particular order to that or not)
-we will probably bring in a vet WR. not necessarily a starter tho.
-F/A WR bryant johnson and LB kawika mitchell are not good needs/fits.
-if we dont re-sing kelley, we'll sign another NT in F/A for sure
-Caplan likes Tommy Kelly
-Calvin Pace is a possibilty at OLB from arizona.
-DA will be delt if a team with a top 10 pick wants him.
-Tommy Kelly wont take much money to sign
-during the senior week, alot will change and thing will start to develop.

kingjames
01-13-2008, 08:14 PM
With the underclassmen coming in, I think we have a great shot at getting front seven talent as well as CB depth.

The more I think about it, on O, I would only go for a scat back type at most.

BrownsTown
01-13-2008, 09:34 PM
RBs that have declared - McFadden, Mendenhall, Slaton, Rice, Kevin Smith, Jamaal Charles, James Davis, Stewart. Looks good for a nice RB to fall to the Browns if they choose to go that route.

Hines
01-13-2008, 09:39 PM
Do you guys like your new defensive cordinator?

757Dawg
01-14-2008, 02:12 AM
Do you guys like your new defensive cordinator?

Yeah. I'm yet to hear other from another Browns fan.

Tucker has done a great job with the DBs since joining the staff. Granted, our pass defense ranked low this season...but with the lack of pressure we were putting on QBs, that's what happens. Plus, Grantham played soft zone coverage a lot which skewed our pass defense numbers.

When we lost DB after DB last season, Tucker really got the most out of what we had. Daven Holly came to us a 2nd year, free agent filler signing and developed into a quality corner who had success as a starter. Sean Jones has really blossomed under Tucker and our rookie CBs (Eric Wright and Brandon McDonald) really started to come along as the season progressed, particularly McDonald.

I don't know how Tucker is going to handle the D as a whole, but just based on what he's done with developing and coaching up the DBs, I expect good things.

BrownsTown
01-14-2008, 02:27 PM
I thought he did a good job, but considering he had 3 2nd round picks starting in the secondary along with Leigh Bodden when he's healthy he had a good bit to work with. The way Daven Holly and Brandon McDonald overperformed is promising though.

LonghornsLegend
01-16-2008, 03:31 AM
Quick question...is LeCharles Bentley supposed to be playing next season?? Or is his career finished, I thought he was going to try to make it out there this year but I havent heard much about him lately

757Dawg
01-16-2008, 05:21 PM
Quick question...is LeCharles Bentley supposed to be playing next season?? Or is his career finished, I thought he was going to try to make it out there this year but I havent heard much about him lately

The little information we've gotten on Bentley over the past year has been vague at best. No one really knows for sure what the deal is.

IMO though, he won't be playing this year. As crappy as it is, it appears that his career really is over. Just too much damage to that knee has occurred since he initially injured it.

j05son
01-16-2008, 05:34 PM
I'm optimistic. I see LCB coming back. He's determined too. He may never be the quality player he once was, but I am HOPING to see Bentley either at center with Fraley at RG or with LCB sharing time with McKinney at RG...

BrownsTown
01-16-2008, 08:28 PM
I had heard he was trying to get back this past year but didn't want to risk it. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back for next year.

icantackleclaret
01-16-2008, 09:18 PM
They restructured LeCharles deal this year and made it run out next season. It is also now a incentive based contract.

Browns and C LeCharles Bentley agreed to a restructured contract that will allow him to be an unrestricted free agent after the 2008 season.
Injuries and illness have kept Bentley out of the Browns lineup since signing in 2006 and the new deal opens future cap space. It will limit the Browns' financial exposure if Bentley cannot return, though he expects to join an improved offensive line next season. (rotoworld.com)

and

12/20/2007: Signed a two-year, $1.805 million contract. Another $3.4 million is available through playing-time incentives in 2008. He'll receive $1 million bonuses after playing eight games, 12 games and 14 games. 2008: $605,000, 2009: Free Agent.

icantackleclaret
01-16-2008, 09:19 PM
Also they restructured Gary Baxter's deal and he will be a free agent in March. (rotoworld.com)

LonghornsLegend
01-17-2008, 11:22 AM
That would be huge if he could come back and play on an already strong offensive line...even some contribution would be nice, sucks for a guy so happy to be coming home to play

barry
01-18-2008, 03:06 PM
given that fraley was elected team captain, bentley is going to have to prove to be clearly superior to take over as center. that's why i expect that if bentley is healthy enough to play, it'll be at RG - or as a super backup - we were pretty lucky when it came to injuries last season, i don't expect that to happen again. but a healthy bentley gives us tremendous depth.

thomas/shaffer
steinbach/bentley
fraley/bentley
tucker/bentley
shaffer/tucker

losing thomas would be a bite in the shorts, but at least we've got another guy who's played LT in the past while any other injury wouldn't have the same kind of impact it might have had in years past.

JSimmsy21
01-22-2008, 07:21 PM
according to the OBR, we're interested in signing bernard berrian in F/A. that is if he doesnt go back to chicago.

keylime_5
01-22-2008, 07:23 PM
Bernard Berrian and Calvin Pace would be a couple nice targets I'd like to see us land to shore up the #2WR and LOLB spots. We would then only need a DE and/or NT for our front 7 in FA after that.

JSimmsy21
01-23-2008, 04:07 AM
Bernard Berrian and Calvin Pace would be a couple nice targets I'd like to see us land to shore up the #2WR and LOLB spots. We would then only need a DE and/or NT for our front 7 in FA after that.

calvin pace is another one the OBR keeps referring to as a potential F/A signing. adam caplan seems to say that the only DL we'll go after is DE. they might go after a depth spot guy, but i guess the browns are trying to resign Kelley, so him and smith can take over the NT spot.

keylime_5
01-23-2008, 10:10 AM
The reason for that is b/c there are lots of OLBs and DEs out there in FA....but there are no Nose Tackles at all :(. Shaun Smith can be a solid NT though and if we get another one in the draft then we'll be on the right track. But a Vince Wilfork type will have to wait unless we draft a steal.

kalbears13
01-29-2008, 10:40 AM
Pontbriand was selected for the probowl! I meant 2008 in my sig but whatever.

j05son
02-02-2008, 03:08 PM
K2 getting offseason surgery again...

JSimmsy21
02-02-2008, 08:19 PM
new second round mock up. sucks. as usual.

BrownsTown
02-05-2008, 03:57 PM
How would you guys value Daven Holly, considering we have McDonald?

757Dawg
02-05-2008, 04:06 PM
How would you guys value Daven Holly, considering we have McDonald?

Excellent depth player.

Someone who has experience starting and could seamlessly step into the #2 or #3 spot should someone get injured.

JSimmsy21
02-05-2008, 04:14 PM
he's better than Bodden. he's also a RFA.

BrownsTown
02-05-2008, 04:22 PM
he's better than Bodden. he's also a RFA.

You serious? He played good with his PT but I don't think he's better than Bodden.

barry
02-06-2008, 05:04 AM
How would you guys value Daven Holly, considering we have McDonald?

we probably can't have enough depth. crennel in the past has used as many as 8 different DBs in various packages, though not that many with the browns. bodden is still probably the best cover corner we have when he's healthy, i wouldn't want to see holly or mcdonald matched up on the other team's best receiver, but both can be productive in the right scheme, as shown last season.

JSimmsy21
02-06-2008, 05:06 AM
You serious? He played good with his PT but I don't think he's better than Bodden.

i dont know, hopefully Bodden just had a really bad year. at least Holly was in position to tackle whoever he was covering if he allowed a catch. Bodden couldn't stay with his guy if his life was on the line.

757Dawg
02-07-2008, 09:58 PM
we probably can't have enough depth. crennel in the past has used as many as 8 different DBs in various packages, though not that many with the browns. bodden is still probably the best cover corner we have when he's healthy, i wouldn't want to see holly or mcdonald matched up on the other team's best receiver, but both can be productive in the right scheme, as shown last season.

I'd feel pretty comfortable having McDonald on the other team's best receiver. Dude neutralized Andre Johnson last year and pretty much everyone else he went against.

Bottom line, the kid's got "it."

mcdlaxbonz13
02-07-2008, 11:12 PM
i was very surprised in how well McDonald performed last year and can't wait to see what he is capable next year. also i can't believe we have 6 players going to the pro bowl

Hines
02-17-2008, 11:30 AM
You guys are looking to make an offer to Asante.

ChezPower4
02-17-2008, 02:52 PM
What do you think about the brown giving Derick Anderson a new contract and trading Brady Quinn?

757Dawg
02-17-2008, 02:58 PM
What do you think about the brown giving Derick Anderson a new contract and trading Brady Quinn?
I'd hate it. I feel that Brady Quinn has far more upside than Derek Anderson and will be a much better overall QB.

It won't happen, though. Brady won't get be getting traded.

ChezPower4
02-17-2008, 03:58 PM
I'd hate it. I feel that Brady Quinn has far more upside than Derek Anderson and will be a much better overall QB.

It won't happen, though. Brady won't get be getting traded.

It makes sence because Derick Anderson is already a sure thing and you know what your going to get out of him. Brady Quinn is not a sure thing and you don't know how he's going to turn out. So basicly your saying get rid of a proven good player for an unknown....? Quinn may turn out to be good but if you trade him now he is still young and his trade value is still very high and the browns need a lot of help on that aging defence. On top of that your still left with Anderson who is a good produtive QB.

kalbears13
02-17-2008, 08:24 PM
It makes sence because Derick Anderson is already a sure thing and you know what your going to get out of him. Brady Quinn is not a sure thing and you don't know how he's going to turn out. So basicly your saying get rid of a proven good player for an unknown....? Quinn may turn out to be good but if you trade him now he is still young and his trade value is still very high and the browns need a lot of help on that aging defence. On top of that your still left with Anderson who is a good produtive QB.

Yeah, but if you look at trade value, Anderson is worth wayy more than Brady Quinn. The Browns are probably the only ones who know how good Brady Quinn really is. Brady Quinn's trade value is a lot lower than Derek Anderson's. I think the real Derek Anderson showed up at the ProBowl.

Ruken
02-18-2008, 04:35 PM
The pro bowl really? Name one player in that game who really goes all out really please DA better be on the browns next year because I really think that hes going to be great. plus do we want a man leading our team who as of now riding the pine MAKING COMMERCIALS signing autohgraphs for a fee when he was holding out in training camp and making homophobic comments then denying it but hmm somehow still was still sentenced to community service yeah sounds like a face of the franchise i want

757Dawg
02-18-2008, 04:46 PM
The pro bowl really? Name one player in that game who really goes all out really please DA better be on the browns next year because I really think that hes going to be great. plus do we want a man leading our team who as of now riding the pine MAKING COMMERCIALS signing autohgraphs for a fee when he was holding out in training camp and making homophobic comments then denying it but hmm somehow still was still sentenced to community service yeah sounds like a face of the franchise i want

He's making commercials!?!? Damn, they better cut him then.

Talk about blatant, disillusioned hatred. Not even worth getting into any kind of debate with.

757Dawg
02-18-2008, 04:55 PM
It makes sence because Derick Anderson is already a sure thing and you know what your going to get out of him. Brady Quinn is not a sure thing and you don't know how he's going to turn out. So basicly your saying get rid of a proven good player for an unknown....? Quinn may turn out to be good but if you trade him now he is still young and his trade value is still very high and the browns need a lot of help on that aging defence. On top of that your still left with Anderson who is a good produtive QB.

What exactly is he a sure thing about? Playing like crap down the stretch? After only 1 season, nothing is a "sure thing."

You're way off on the trade value. Like you said, Quinn is an "unknown." His trade value is nowhere as high as you think.

Personally, I feel that Quinn will be the better overall QB. Phil Savage gave spent a 2nd and 1st to draft him, so that should tell you how he feels about him. As DA is coming off a Pro Bowl season, his trade value is as high as it's going to be. I'd trade him for the draft picks and continue building a solid team around Quinn.

kalbears13
02-18-2008, 05:07 PM
The pro bowl really? Name one player in that game who really goes all out really please DA better be on the browns next year because I really think that hes going to be great. plus do we want a man leading our team who as of now riding the pine MAKING COMMERCIALS signing autohgraphs for a fee when he was holding out in training camp and making homophobic comments then denying it but hmm somehow still was still sentenced to community service yeah sounds like a face of the franchise i want

I believe all of the Cleveland Browns players were going pretty hard since it was their first one. Peyton still did well when he was in even though he's been in a bunch of probowls and he probably wasn't going hard at all and so did Ben. If everyone on defense isn't going hard then it should be just as easy to complete a pass.

j05son
02-18-2008, 07:00 PM
What exactly is he a sure thing about? Playing like crap down the stretch? After only 1 season, nothing is a "sure thing."

You're way off on the trade value. Like you said, Quinn is an "unknown." His trade value is nowhere as high as you think.

Personally, I feel that Quinn will be the better overall QB. Phil Savage gave spent a 2nd and 1st to draft him, so that should tell you how he feels about him. As DA is coming off a Pro Bowl season, his trade value is as high as it's going to be. I'd trade him for the draft picks and continue building a solid team around Quinn.

You said what I was going to...

QFT +rep...

JSimmsy21
02-18-2008, 10:03 PM
so, write it down, here whats goin to happen. we're going to sign DA to the highest tender and nobody is going to bite. then on draft day we are going to make some sort of trade with Miami. something along the lines of DA and some sort of pick(s) for the #1 and some assortment of other pick(s). something like that. then we'll take chris long.

kalbears13
02-18-2008, 10:05 PM
so, write it down, here whats goin to happen. we're going to sign DA to the highest tender and nobody is going to bite. then on draft day we are going to make some sort of trade with Miami. something along the lines of DA and some sort of pick(s) for the #1 and some assortment of other pick(s). something like that. then we'll take chris long.

then i will change my pants because that would be freakin' awesome.

d34ng3l021
02-18-2008, 10:05 PM
You wouldnt end up with the first overall pick. I doubt that happens. But I can see you guys tendering DA so no one gets him and maybe making a trade, or having him start another year for you guys.

Its such a win win situation its ridiculous. Going into last season you thought Quinn would be the future, and all of a sudden this QB emerges as a pro bowler and now you can trade him for extra picks you would have never thought of getting.

Ruken
02-19-2008, 12:07 AM
once again why do we trade him why fix whats not broken. I am so sick of all this quinn speculation when no one has any idea to believe hes gonna be good in the NFL and is DA has another good year we have a proven qb. seriously why is everyone so high on quinn hes a self absorbed moron

kalbears13
02-19-2008, 12:15 AM
once again why do we trade him why fix whats not broken. I am so sick of all this quinn speculation when no one has any idea to believe hes gonna be good in the NFL and is DA has another good year we have a proven qb. seriously why is everyone so high on quinn hes a self absorbed moron

because we have other **** that's broken. We have bigger problems than quarterback right now. I dont think many people are high on Quinn but I think a lot of teams are high on Derek Anderson. DA I dont think is really that good and only puts up good stats because of our O-Line/Receiving core. I think now is the best time to sell on DA because his stock is as high as it will ever be.

757Dawg
02-19-2008, 10:07 AM
I really, really hate the notion many Browns fans seem to have in thinking you either have to be a Brady Quinn fan or a Derek Anderson fan. You can't like both.

It's just ridiculous to me. The whole situation stinks of the Tim Couch/Kelly Holcomb nonsense of 5 years ago.

I like Derek Anderson. While I definitely believe he was a big beneficiary of our OL and receiving targets, he still did what no other Cleveland QB has done since '99. Consistently win football games.

With that said, I firmly believe Brady Quinn is the best option for this team for the future. He may not have the arm that Anderson does, but I feel he's a more accurate and much more intelligent quarterback.

Seeing as how it's a painfully weak year for the QB position in free agency and also through the draft, I fully anticipate some team offering up a big package for Anderson. IMO, it would be foolish not to take the highest offer (which would definitely include a minimum of two 2nd rounders or a 1st rounder). Use those high picks to address the major problem areas on this team.

JSimmsy21
02-19-2008, 03:58 PM
I really, really hate the notion many Browns fans seem to have in thinking you either have to be a Brady Quinn fan or a Derek Anderson fan. You can't like both.

It's just ridiculous to me. The whole situation stinks of the Tim Couch/Kelly Holcomb nonsense of 5 years ago.

I like Derek Anderson. While I definitely believe he was a big beneficiary of our OL and receiving targets, he still did what no other Cleveland QB has done since '99. Consistently win football games.

With that said, I firmly believe Brady Quinn is the best option for this team for the future. He may not have the arm that Anderson does, but I feel he's a more accurate and much more intelligent quarterback.

Seeing as how it's a painfully weak year for the QB position in free agency and also through the draft, I fully anticipate some team offering up a big package for Anderson. IMO, it would be foolish not to take the highest offer (which would definitely include a minimum of two 2nd rounders or a 1st rounder). Use those high picks to address the major problem areas on this team.

quoted for truth....

but one thing i don't agree with, i don't think we will be getting the big deal for DA. I said a little while that i heard from a little birdy that we might give up DA and next years first for the number one pick. teams aren't as interested in DA as most people think. Chicago and minny have made no known talks with Phil about DA. that pretty much just leaves the falcons and the fins as that other 2 teams with major QB issues.

*edit* Suggs got franchised :(

ChezPower4
02-19-2008, 08:47 PM
They should trade one of them and use the draft picks on some defencive players.

BrownsTown
02-19-2008, 09:22 PM
They should trade one of them and use the draft picks on some defencive players.

Even a non-Browns fan knows the truth...

j05son
02-19-2008, 09:36 PM
once again why do we trade him why fix whats not broken. I am so sick of all this quinn speculation when no one has any idea to believe hes gonna be good in the NFL and is DA has another good year we have a proven qb. seriously why is everyone so high on quinn hes a self absorbed moron

I think that the reason many fans are higher on Quinn is the same reason a lot of NFL GM's are lower then expected on DA; Quinn > Anderson. Derek benefited from great offensive line help, great field position [practically every drive], a good running game, 2 pro bowl receivers as well as a new OC and him being a new QB with little film on either of them [DA and Chud].

Although Anderson almost took us to the playoffs, he also cost the game that could have put us in. He was absolutely dismal in Cincinnati. That's how Anderson has been dating back to college. He's a high risk high reward type of player. He'll be near the top for touchdowns but also interceptions. He's inconsistent, and for the support he had around him, he should have done better.

Now look at Brady. You're absolutely right when you say he's unproven. It's his ceiling and his ability to reach his ceiling that makes him a much better prospect than Anderson. He's a physical specimen, he lifts with the offensive lineman for goodness sake. He has the respect of his teammates and Winslow even publicly endorsed Quinn. His knock was he couldn't win the big game but it's the fact Notre Dame was even in those games which is amazing. Look at them a year ago and now. They lost a couple pieces, Grant, Samarza [spelling], Harris, etc but the offensive line and running game were rarely praised in South Bend. Quinn made that Irish team a bunch of over-acheivers. They weren't suppose to be in any of those big games.

Your attacks on Quinn seem to be based on his social life and endorsements.

I hardly believe in the Columbus gay bashing but he was proven guilty and sentenced community service [I really haven't kept up with this]? Yeah that brings some negative attention our way but nothing as bad as Bodden's wrong way on a one way that he was found not guilty on...His commercials, I could care less about. Peyton and Eli both have rings and they appear in their ownl...His charging for his signature I find crossing the line but it's his morals not mine. It's my choice if I pay the $x for the autograph, I just want him to win us games...

In the end it comes down to we need 1 quarterback and we currently have 2. The solution would be to get rid of one and try to get those missing pieces to make us a serious contender. The question is who to give up; Anderson or Quinn. On one hand you have vastly inconsistent but NFL success smaller ceiling, pretty much at his ceiling. The other hand you have unproven, high ceiling but you have no real indication on how close he is to that ceiling with a great collegiate career.

I'll agree that Quinn could be a bust and be worse than Anderson but on the other hand he can certainly be better as well...

They should trade one of them and use the draft picks on some defencive players.

Hopefully Phil has thought of this, but if not, let's hope he stumbles here one day and sees your post...

Ruken
02-20-2008, 04:52 PM
Ok i said I had problems with his commercials because he is riding the bench peyton and manning both start. Im sorry but iif I was DA i would feel like im an unwanted guest in a town where i just led my team to a 10-6 season. And yes his social life means alot he is suppossed to be the "face of the franchise" so his character means alot. And im sorry but everyone saying he has bigger upside is total speculations and predicitons you never know how good a player is going to be until he actually plays which does not mean one series and the preseason. DA had his first season as a starter I think he needs to be allowed another year to see what his true colors are and if he isnt as good then so be it and ill deal with giving quinn a shot but my personal hatred of quinn aside I really beleive DA deserves one more year. And Kellen Winslow aside from this year has not been known for smart public comments even him endorsing quinn was stupid I mean thats a way to promote team unity by undermining your starting qb and now he wants more money sorry but K2's character is showing up again after conducting himself very well most of the season

JSimmsy21
02-20-2008, 07:06 PM
I'm very hard pressed by these ppl that think DA led us to 10-6. yea, he had a part in it, but he didn't do it all, and he surely didn't help us in going 11-5 or 12-4. which were both quite possible. granted, our defense sucked all season, minus the buffalo game, but they had help from mother nature.

DA has a good arm, quick reads, quick release, poise, calm under pressure, good at 2 min. drills.

DA also has EXTREMELY scatter shot accuracy, makes bad reads, tucks and runs more than he should and doesn't protect the ball, inconsistent, and really tries to rely on his arm to much.

you cant teach accuracy and his inconsistency scares other teams from bidding on him.

alot of people blame the Oakland loss on Nat Dorsey for not blocking Tommy Kelley on the GW field gaol by Phil. we wouldn't have had to rely on that kick if DA didn't throw those INT's right to the zoning LB's. thats the same reason we lost to NE. DA couldn't read the Zoning LB's. our Defense didn't help in the Oakland game, particularly our secondary, but DA helped dig the hole.

the second Pittsburgh game, we played great in the first half, as a team. then in the second DA couldn't complete a pass for the life of him.

the first cincy game DA tore them apart(altho he did miss his first 5 passes), and it was the same crap defense the second time, but he threw 4 picks. he put us in a hole.

at arizona he threw 2 picks right to rodrick hood. DA put us in a hole. K2 should have never had to go up and make that incredible catch the he made.(that was a wast anyways)

both DA and our defense held us back, but when DA could have easily pulled us out of a hole, he dug us deeper. what I'm saying is altho DA had 29 TD's, he threw too many INT's at critical times for him to be considered a franchise QB. his accuracy is no where close to being a franchise QB. does anyone else remember how many times Beasy and K2 had to go up and make amazing catches to get all those TD's!? i do, and it was more than what i would like. Quinn was a 4 year starter at ND, he doesn't need to sit for 2 years in the NFL. put Quinn in.

kalbears13
02-20-2008, 08:10 PM
I think it's dumb to keep Derek Anderson for one more year since this is as high as his stock will ever be. There is no way next year we get as lucky as we did this year with injuries on offense. No one really got hurt. The only person I can think of was Jamal Lewis. I really think it's a waste to have 2 quality quarterbacks when you have so many holes on defense. You have to get rid of one of them and I think getting rid of Derek is the best bet and you get the most for him.

KYballer
02-21-2008, 12:39 PM
I Agree ^^^

JSimmsy21
02-21-2008, 02:40 PM
reports out of indy are saying that the browns and jamal lewis have agreed on a 3 year deal. financial terms are not yet known.

RoyHall#1
02-21-2008, 02:43 PM
reports out of indy are saying that the browns and jamal lewis have agreed on a 3 year deal. financial terms are not yet known.

Perfect. We can get a RB early in the 2009 or even 2010 draft and groom him under Lewis for 1-2 years. Hopefully we don't take one this year now.

P01ntb1ank
02-21-2008, 02:52 PM
Perfect. We can get a RB early in the 2009 or even 2010 draft and groom him under Lewis for 1-2 years. Hopefully we don't take one this year now.

Why not?? This is one of the deepest RB classes in quite awhile. We could snag a nice prospect in the 3rd/4th rounds and groom him till JLs contract is up

RoyHall#1
02-21-2008, 02:54 PM
Why not?? This is one of the deepest RB classes in quite awhile. We could snag a nice prospect in the 3rd/4th rounds and groom him till JLs contract is up

It's personal opinion but do you really think that if we take someone in the 3rd or 4th he's going to be any better than Wright or Harrison? Im not sold on that being the case in the second...

JSimmsy21
02-21-2008, 05:41 PM
we'll draft Forte in the second if he runs a 4.5 40.

its proven that tandem backfields are more productive than one back systems. i'm also assuming that we trade DA for a first rounder, if not than forte might not be the pick. and with F/A all screwed up now with Williams/Haynesworthe/possibly Berrian all franchised, players in the draft this year for those positions may be over valued.

j05son
02-21-2008, 06:23 PM
And im sorry but everyone saying he has bigger upside is total speculations and predicitons you never know how good a player is going to be until he actually plays which does not mean one series and the preseason.

Upside and ceiling are synonyms for potential. Theres no way you can factually argue that Quinn has less potential then Anderson. You can say he won't reach it which is pretty much saying he'll bust which is a valid opinion but saying Anderson has more potential then Quinn is off.

Our opinions on Quinn and Anderson are obviously different and I can agree that Quinn may not live up to the hype [another word for potential], but he has way more upside, a much higher ceiling than Anderson does...

Example: 1=bad, 10=great.
Anderson's ability now = 5, Anderson's ceiling = 6.
Quinn's ability now = 2, Quinn's ceiling = 9.

^obviously those are my numbers and not scouts or anything but that's just trying to illustrate my point. Anderson is an average QB, some success and some failure all wrapped up in a season. Quinn has a bright future just like Tim Couch did but will he reach it is the question.

the first cincy game DA tore them apart(altho he did miss his first 5 passes), and it was the same crap defense the second time, but he threw 4 picks. he put us in a hole.

I think one of the reasons DA started to trail off at the end of the season besides the weather was that teams had tape on him and the offense...Fresh face in a fresh system no one really knew how to counter it...

EDIT:

reports out of indy are saying that the browns and jamal lewis have agreed on a 3 year deal. financial terms are not yet known.
This is confirmed via ClevelandBrowns.com but the link is broken at the site...

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=8213

kalbears13
02-21-2008, 06:50 PM
we'll draft Forte in the second if he runs a 4.5 40.

its proven that tandem backfields are more productive than one back systems. i'm also assuming that we trade DA for a first rounder, if not than forte might not be the pick. and with F/A all screwed up now with Williams/Haynesworthe/possibly Berrian all franchised, players in the draft this year for those positions may be over valued.

Jamal wants most of the workload but I dont trust a guy that has had that many carries to go this whole year without getting injured. As the same with Derek Anderson, I dont expect Jamal to put up more stats than he did last year. He had a great OL with no injuries and a passing attack so the defense couldn't overload the box. Plus Jamal Lewis is another year older. Wright and Harrison just don't cut it as backups so we definitely do need to address RB before the 5th round of the Draft or in FA. Just someone who can keep the ground game respectable so they can't drop the whole defense.

DChess
02-21-2008, 06:55 PM
i dont like us taking forde, hes too similar to jamal. its not that big of a deal, as i have argued that mcfadden and fargas would work nicely but i would love to see a guy who can take it to the house on a previously worn out defense. i think jamall charles would be perfect for us

Iamcanadian
02-21-2008, 08:03 PM
There is a report on NFL.com that Savage will resign Anderson for 3 years and expects him to start next season for us.

barry
02-21-2008, 08:58 PM
we'll draft Forte in the second if he runs a 4.5 40.

its proven that tandem backfields are more productive than one back systems. i'm also assuming that we trade DA for a first rounder, if not than forte might not be the pick. and with F/A all screwed up now with Williams/Haynesworthe/possibly Berrian all franchised, players in the draft this year for those positions may be over valued.

IIRC forte has recorded a 4.45 40. if he's available in the 3rd round (or later), i 'd say take him, but not in the 2nd.

IMO the fact that he *is* a jamal lewis clone heightens the appeal, jamal comes out, and we can still put a guy on the field who can block, catch the ball coming out of the backfield AND run through guys if need be.

JSimmsy21
02-21-2008, 09:45 PM
IIRC forte has recorded a 4.45 40. if he's available in the 3rd round (or later), i 'd say take him, but not in the 2nd.

IMO the fact that he *is* a jamal lewis clone heightens the appeal, jamal comes out, and we can still put a guy on the field who can block, catch the ball coming out of the backfield AND run through guys if need be.

adam caplan reported that forte will be a late 2nd rounder if he runs well at the combine. if he runs a 4.45 like your saying, i'd be ok if we traded up in the second to take him. dude is and underrated all around talent just b/c he went to Tulane.

barry
02-22-2008, 04:57 PM
even with the combine results, i have yet to see any scouting reports /mock drafts with forte going before the 3rd round. i trust savage's ability to know where a guy should/will be drafted - partly through talent evaluation as well as projecting what other teams will take at previous picks. that allowed us to get brady (at what cost?) late in the first round when savage was sure that the teams after dallas would have taken brady. the poiint is: why draft a guy in the second round if no one else will draft him before the 4th round - use that earlier pick to get somebody else. or we make a trade to draft a bit higher in the 3rd round if it looks like someone else might take him.

kingjames
02-23-2008, 07:39 PM
I like Forsett for us in the second or third. He can play day 1.

We also need a DT or DE day 1. We can not get out without one.

Ruken
02-24-2008, 12:03 AM
Are there really any DT DE in the FA anymore after all the franchise tags?

twotondawg
02-24-2008, 09:11 AM
even with the combine results, i have yet to see any scouting reports /mock drafts with forte going before the 3rd round. i trust savage's ability to know where a guy should/will be drafted - partly through talent evaluation as well as projecting what other teams will take at previous picks. that allowed us to get brady (at what cost?) late in the first round when savage was sure that the teams after dallas would have taken brady. the poiint is: why draft a guy in the second round if no one else will draft him before the 4th round - use that earlier pick to get somebody else. or we make a trade to draft a bit higher in the 3rd round if it looks like someone else might take him.

Actually this site has him going 48th to the Falcons, mid second round. I would love to see Forte on the Browns but not as our first pick this year, much less if we need to trade up to get him.

barry
02-25-2008, 02:13 AM
this site is a forum - i could put out a mock draft suggesting that somebody like derrick harvey will be a top 5 pick, but i doubt anyone would or should take it seriously.

still, all it takes is one team to want him badly enough, but if forte gets drafted in the 2nd round, i'm betting that most "experts" will call that pick a reach.

JSimmsy21
02-25-2008, 06:38 AM
dude, mock drafts are only one man's thoughts on where a player should/will be drafted at. thats it, they warrant nothing else. so many more talks and such go on behind the scenes that what we know that its hard for any of us to make a solid prediction on who will/should be drafted where.

barry
02-25-2008, 08:26 AM
i'm not disagreeing with that; our being able to acquire quinn and thomas last season is something no one could have predicted. but i'd be more inclined to put more weight behind a mock draft coming from a sportswriter that actually covers the NFL year round vs. some schmoe running a website out of his mother's garage and funding it with his paper route earnings.

one of my best friends lives down the street from that kudla kid from osu that ended up signing with (and getting cut by) the steelers as a FA a few years back. apparently any rumors that ever got printed in the media about his projected place in the draft came straight from the kid's *mother*, for crying out loud - not any NFL team rep or scout.

the point is that i'm more inclined to put more credence into a report based on confirmation of the source, etc. - a phrase such as "the consensus of NFL scouts", etc.

JSimmsy21
02-25-2008, 07:35 PM
"DL Stars Shine
• The defensive linemen took the field Monday morning and both Chris Long of UVA and Vernon Gholston of Ohio St. were every bit as impressive as expected. Gholston ran a 4.64 with a 35-inch vertical while Long was just behind him with a 4.71 forty and 34-inch vertical. Both Gholston and Long looked excellent in the drills as well and showcased their athleticism. Marcus Howard of Georgia (4.47), Quentin Groves of Auburn (4.52) and Cliff Avril of Purdue (4.56) were the fastest ends in Indy while Dre Moore of Maryland (4.88) and Red Bryant of Texas A&M (4.98) posted the best marks for the tackles. Among the disappointments were Sedrick Ellis of USC, who ran in the mid-5.2 range, and Calais Campbell of Miami (FL) who came in with an unofficial 5.03 clocking."


posted on this site, figured i'd put it in here. i'm looking for official bench numbers, but am having no luck

RoyHall#1
02-25-2008, 07:37 PM
Gholston had 37, that's all I know.

j05son
02-26-2008, 06:44 AM
I've wanted Gholston all along...Hope Phil can make it happen...

keylime_5
02-26-2008, 09:22 AM
I don't think it's realistic to think we could trade into the top 10 picks, but we could possibly trade into the late first round. However, I don't think we'll do that unless something really crazy happens, but a trade-up into the early second round seems fairly likely. I think it's probably 50-50 that we trade up into the early second or not. There's some good 3-4 DE prospects who should be around in rounds 2-4 though: Red Bryant, Calais Campbell, Trevor Laws, Dre Moore, Pat Sims, and Marcus Harrison. Frank Okam might be a good day 2 NT project too, he weighed in at I think 6-5/347 in Indianapolis, but needs work. I'm a lot more intrigued at our first pick possibilities now though than I was weeks ago.

And btw, anyone else see that thing in the Dayton DN about Cleveland and Pittsburgh being 2 teams thought to be leading contenders to go after Justin Smith in free agency? I think Smith would be intriguing as a DE in a 3-4, he could certainly help the interior pass rush of any team and make blitzes more effective- something we sucked at last year.

JSimmsy21
02-26-2008, 03:47 PM
I don't think it's realistic to think we could trade into the top 10 picks, but we could possibly trade into the late first round. However, I don't think we'll do that unless something really crazy happens, but a trade-up into the early second round seems fairly likely. I think it's probably 50-50 that we trade up into the early second or not. There's some good 3-4 DE prospects who should be around in rounds 2-4 though: Red Bryant, Calais Campbell, Trevor Laws, Dre Moore, Pat Sims, and Marcus Harrison. Frank Okam might be a good day 2 NT project too, he weighed in at I think 6-5/347 in Indianapolis, but needs work. I'm a lot more intrigued at our first pick possibilities now though than I was weeks ago.

And btw, anyone else see that thing in the Dayton DN about Cleveland and Pittsburgh being 2 teams thought to be leading contenders to go after Justin Smith in free agency? I think Smith would be intriguing as a DE in a 3-4, he could certainly help the interior pass rush of any team and make blitzes more effective- something we sucked at last year.

i while back ago i posted that i heard about a rumor that we might try to package DA and next years first to get into the top ten, which would be very possible. your right, tho, that a late first or early second trade up would be more logical at this point.

i like Bryant, Cambell and Moore. i'm not a big fan of Laws, he's too short be play DE and to light to play NT. i dont know much about Sims or Harrison. i agree with you that Okam would be a good NT project. he's a Big Ted clone, but younger. alot younger.

"League sources indicate Cincinnati Bengals free agent DE Justin Smith will receive a ton of interest at the start of free agency on Friday. Among the teams that will show early interest are believed to be the Denver Broncos, Detroit Lions, Houston Texans, Jacksonville Jaguars, Minnesota Vikings, and San Francisco 49ers.All of those teams listed will be looking for pass rush help in free agency and during April's NFL draft.Smith posted at least five sacks in each of his first six seasons as a pro but only posted two sacks in 2007.But what sets Smith apart from other ends is that he plays the run quite well. "

source>www.browns.scout.com

also, one last thing, if anyone remembers from last years free agency, we were one of the big runners to land Nate Clements. He ended up signing a deal with the 49ers. rumors at scout.com are saying that we'll try for Asante Samuel this year and he'll be wanted the same kind of money that Clements got. that would be very very very good for us. One, he's a shutdown corner, and two, he'd be playing in a very similar system and wont need much time to adjust. this would be sweet.

RoyHall#1
02-26-2008, 05:25 PM
Clements got an 8 year 80 million dollar deal IIRC. It'd be great to land Samuel.

JSimmsy21
02-28-2008, 07:39 AM
Roye was cut. the release will save us about $3.5 mil in cap space.

aslo, Andre Davis has been asked to restructure his contract. If he doesn't agree to terms, he could be released as well. if Andre is cut, its another $2.5 mil saved in the cap

keylime_5
02-28-2008, 09:59 PM
Well if we do trade for Corey Williams as it seems like we will, then all the talk about 2nd round picks and which DE we want will have been in vain. But if the building smoke about some team that is gonna give Derek Anderson an offer sheet which would land us a 1st and 3rd round pick will change the chatter on here quite a bit if true.

JSimmsy21
02-28-2008, 10:12 PM
Well if we do trade for Corey Williams as it seems like we will, then all the talk about 2nd round picks and which DE we want will have been in vain. But if the building smoke about some team that is gonna give Derek Anderson an offer sheet which would land us a 1st and 3rd round pick will change the chatter on here quite a bit if true.

i in the live chat blog on scout.com right now, i'll be posting in here about all that happens as its confirmed and not just rumored.

there's been talk that the only reason that we're dealing a 2nd is b/c savage knows we're getting a first and third back from "some team" for DA

*edit* Travis LaBoy has set up meetings for CLE and NO.

* the browns have trade a '08 2nd rnd pick for packers DT Corey Williams. Williams is expected to play DE opposite R.Smith. the contract is reportedly a 6yr/$38 mil.

*Donte Stallworth has scheduled to visit the browns.

* reports are now that Cleveland gave greenbay a 3rd rnder for CW.

*reports are that Pace will visit Cleveland.

*DA has signed with the browns. terms of the contract are unknown, but are beleived to be trade friendly. according to sources of Lane Adkins and John Taylor, the Vikings and Panthers are 2 teams that were willing to give up the tendered picks for DA. A trade is still very possible.

keylime_5
02-29-2008, 12:17 PM
I believe we might be bringing in Lance Briggs eventually, but haven't heard comfirmation of that yet. Hopefully we sign a guy like Stallworth to be our 3rd WR, and we of course need to sign at least 1 linebacker here, maybe two.

JSimmsy21
02-29-2008, 01:07 PM
scratch that last thing i said about DA. i guess there's a deal onthe table, but he hasnt signed anything yet. trade talks are still in the wind.

there's been interest shown in Briggs, but thats all, that i know of anyways.

kalbears13
03-01-2008, 10:45 AM
scratch that last thing i said about DA. i guess there's a deal onthe table, but he hasnt signed anything yet. trade talks are still in the wind.

there's been interest shown in Briggs, but thats all, that i know of anyways.

So can someone clear this up? Did we sign him or not? I'm really confused right now because I look at websites and some are really older and some are newer and I dont know which to look at.

RoyHall#1
03-01-2008, 01:08 PM
Yeah, I'm confused as well. Is there still a decent chance he'll be traded?

DawgBone
03-01-2008, 03:35 PM
We signed him but his first payment of the new contract isnt due (including signing bonus) until late april. Meaning we have made it easier for a team to trade for him because they know exactly what it will cost to do so under the cap.

But this is what Phil said about signing Anderson....


"I don’t think there’s going to be an open competition," Browns GM Phil Savage said. "We go in with Derek as the lead horse. You don’t sign a contract like that and say, ‘hey, it’s an open competition.'"

This depresses me because im a Quinn supporter. They basically dont fully believe in Anderson because of a 3 year deal and not long term, but they are completely shooting down Quinn.

Do they honestly think Quinn will sit on the bench for 3 years and be happy? If Quinn honestly feels he doesnt have a chance exspect a trade demand.

DawgBone
03-01-2008, 03:40 PM
CAROLINA ADDS COLCLOUGH by Michael David Smith

The Carolina Panthers have signed free-agent cornerback Ricardo Colclough to a two-year contract, multiple media outlets are reporting.

Colclough was a second-round pick of the Steelers in 2004, and while he at times showed promise on special teams, he never contributed much on defense. He was waived during the 2007 season and caught on with the Browns, but he was inactive for every game.

The signing is something of a homecoming for Colclough, who grew up in South Carolina. The contract the Panthers signed with Colclough is a two-year, $4 million deal.

JSimmsy21
03-01-2008, 03:53 PM
We signed him but his first payment of the new contract isnt due (including signing bonus) until late april. Meaning we have made it easier for a team to trade for him because they know exactly what it will cost to do so under the cap.

But this is what Phil said about signing Anderson....


"I don’t think there’s going to be an open competition," Browns GM Phil Savage said. "We go in with Derek as the lead horse. You don’t sign a contract like that and say, ‘hey, it’s an open competition.'"

This depresses me because im a Quinn supporter. They basically dont fully believe in Anderson because of a 3 year deal and not long term, but they are completely shooting down Quinn.

Do they honestly think Quinn will sit on the bench for 3 years and be happy? If Quinn honestly feels he doesnt have a chance exspect a trade demand.

the debate was that DA agreed to terms with the browns thursday night, but didnt sign until sometime yesterday. thats where the confusion came from i think. BTW, the structure of DA's contract is made so that he makes almost all of the garanteed money in the first year of the contract. the purpose of this is so that if he gets traded next year, only the remaining guarenteed money will be spread out against the cap the following 2 years of the contract.

Basically, if DA tears it up this year, he makes his money, but then bombs in 2010 or later, it wont matter b/c he wont take up any cap space and can be traded without a large hit against the cap, or sit on the bench.

OR, if he does pretty good, but the coaches feel Quinn can do better following the 08 season, DA will probably be traded after this season.

i fully expect DA to start this year. Quinn wont want a trade untill the 3rd year. in Quinn's contract, all the bonus' and incentives stem from him being the starter by year 3 of his contract. if he sees that not happening, he'll want traded and we'll resign DA to a longer deal.

barry
03-01-2008, 05:07 PM
the thing that bugs me about the DA situation is recalling savage's comment concerning the sudden trade of frye - that DA would play better without the threat of competition. if savage really believes that DA has that fragile an ego, what's going to happen with BQ breathing down his neck? i'm guessing crennel will give BQ a fair shot to win the job, savage's comment notwithstanding.

also, savage was quoted as not wanting to end up with a low 1st & 3rd round pick while the team that signed DA turned around and packaged him to get a top 10 pick. someone suggested that jerry jones really wants to trade up and get mcfadden - so that makes sense. this way, savage controls who DA goes to should a trade be in the works after all.

unless savage makes the statement (about DA being the starter) just in case whatever trade that he hopes to make falls through and he's just covering the bases. that seems the most plausible explanation to me.

DawgBone
03-01-2008, 06:59 PM
If Anderson gets traded it will obviously be for a draft pick. And it would have to be a first rounder.

Savage is not going to trade his QB now for an unknown pick. He will wait for the #17 overall pick in the draft (for example) to come up. He will then see if the player or players he wants are still on the board, then he will chose weather to trade DA.

He wont just make the trade not knowing who is on the board. He also did not make Andersons first payment wait until April (draft time) for no reason. If he truely wanted to keep DA why prolong the payment?

BrownsTown
03-01-2008, 07:56 PM
Looks like the chances that DA gets traded before the season are very, very, very small. During or after is another story, but it looks like Anderson's the QB heading into the season.

mcdlaxbonz13
03-01-2008, 10:41 PM
one kid i work with that is a browns fan mentioned he had heard atlanta was going to trade their first round and deangelo hall to cleveland for DA. this to me just sounds like someone was playing a little to much madden, but still an interesting thought nonetheless

JSimmsy21
03-02-2008, 01:06 AM
one kid i work with that is a browns fan mentioned he had heard atlanta was going to trade their first round and deangelo hall to cleveland for DA. this to me just sounds like someone was playing a little to much madden, but still an interesting thought nonetheless

isnt DeAngelo going to the G-Men for their first?

barry
03-02-2008, 02:06 AM
no one seems to have mentioned it - samuels went to the eagles - but that probably makes the guy samuels replaces (sheppard) available for a draft pick - which is the subject of a separate thread.

JSimmsy21
03-02-2008, 02:09 AM
STOP MAKING ALL THESE THREADS!!! make one free agent thread.

keylime_5
03-02-2008, 08:43 AM
Stallworth signing was for $35M over 7 years with $10M guaranteed. Typical good #2 WR money, and he's fairly young and obviously fills a big need since Jurevicius will retire in 2009. So far we're the big winners in FA from what I can tell, only 3 moves but they have all been spectacular for filling what we need.

And as far as our draft pick situation I know these are our picks: RD4, RD5, RD6, and RD7. We traded our 6th rounder for Hank Fraley and we own Seattle's 6th round pick for Charlie Frye to even things out. I want to see us go OL, DB, LB, and RB with those picks, but of course Phil and co. will just go best player available regardless of position.

DawgBone
03-02-2008, 09:47 AM
STOP MAKING ALL THESE THREADS!!! make one free agent thread.

You did see the free agent threat on the NFL page right? Everyone complained they could find what they wanted right away.

Chill bro Free Agency comes around once a year and it will only last about 1 week for us. I think we can all handle that.

RoyHall#1
03-02-2008, 12:42 PM
Looks like the chances that DA gets traded before the season are very, very, very small. During or after is another story, but it looks like Anderson's the QB heading into the season.

Why do you say that? Like DawgBone said, Phil has definitely left the option to trade him on draft day open. I really hope he's traded, Quinn would have to be Jim Sorgi bad to not succeed with the offense we have. If they both stay, we have a QB controversy and those haven't worked out too well in the past for us (except this year).

DawgBone
03-02-2008, 01:27 PM
My understanding is that there are teams that have offered possibly a 1st round pick. Phil said no matter what he will take nothing less than a 1st and 3rd. Right now noone has offered that so Phil is being patient. In the process hes making Anderson look gauranteed to start for us so that maybe a team will finally choke up what we want.

If Phil truely believed Anderson was the answer or at least gauranteed he will be on our team this year, he would not have started his contract in late April. He would have started it now like every other free agent contract that is being signed.

Further, Phil is a smart man and will not just trade Anderson for a draft pic right now. He will most likely wait until draft day, when the team we might trade with is on the board. This means that we know for sure the player we want is on the board.

It would be s shame if we traded DA for the #17 pick just to find out the player/players we want have allready gone.

RoyHall#1
03-02-2008, 04:32 PM
I bet I could find 17 players in the draft I'd trade DA for.

jriles0522
03-02-2008, 06:01 PM
At times during the year I found myself one of Anderson's biggest critics. That said, I think keeping him, at least for one more year, is the right move. It's easy to crucify Anderson for his inconsistency, but I think everyone, myself included, lost some perspective on the guy.

He's only 24 years old, and has all the physical tools a QB needs to succeed in this league (I know there’s more to it than that just hear me out). Don't forget, DA was totally written off by many of us and by the team last offseason, and was really put in no position to succeed by our management with the whole Frye, coin flip mess.

The way I see it is this, last year was essentially Anderson's rookie year, and operated under a brand new offense and new offensive coordinator. He performed better than anyone could have expected, and at a pro bowl level. At the very least, he deserves one more year after being familiarized with the system, and I expect him to be much better this year. If he's not, and proves to be a one year wonder, then Quinn comes in and takes over, hopefully successfully, but at least he got a fair shot.

Savage also perhaps made the best point when he said that the Browns have put in so much work, have such an improved roster even now over last year, that it would be unfair to not keep DA and Quinn. 64 QB's started last year and if something happened to Quinn after DA was traded, our season would be lost. We can't afford that. At least with both of these guys we have a great insurance policy, and should be able to compete without falling off the map. I don't think were in desperate need of any more pieces, and thus a trade into Rd. 1 just won't make or break this team. And I looked at the top 32 prospects Scott has up, and I can't say I'm confident any more than 8-10 would be worth trading DA for, and we won't get that value.

Lastly, Go Browns! I just heard Mortensen say he thinks were poised for a Super Bowl run, never thought I'd see the day.

j05son
03-02-2008, 06:26 PM
You did see the free agent threat on the NFL page right? Everyone complained they could find what they wanted right away.

Chill bro Free Agency comes around once a year and it will only last about 1 week for us. I think we can all handle that.

The free agent thread in the NFL subforum is for all 32 teams. News on 32 teams can be hard to cycle through, there's only one team in the Cleveland Browns subforum...Makes things much easier to fine things.

DawgBone
03-02-2008, 10:08 PM
The free agent thread in the NFL subforum is for all 32 teams. News on 32 teams can be hard to cycle through, there's only one team in the Cleveland Browns subforum...Makes things much easier to fine things.

If your talking about making it easier to find things, how is making a specific topic difficult? Further more if you dont like the topic, you can rid yourself of having to read it by simply not clicking on it. Seems easier to me but you insist on making it difficult.

If you dont like a topic, dont click. If you do then click. That way you know exactly what you will be reading even before you read it.

j05son
03-03-2008, 06:43 AM
If your talking about making it easier to find things, how is making a specific topic difficult? Further more if you dont like the topic, you can rid yourself of having to read it by simply not clicking on it. Seems easier to me but you insist on making it difficult.

If you dont like a topic, dont click. If you do then click. That way you know exactly what you will be reading even before you read it.

First off it's called forum etiquette to not go about post whoring multiple threads to the tune of 50+ posts in your first week of tenure.

Secondly my post wasn't that hard to read for you not to understand it. We've had 3 signings and then rumors. We don't need a thread about every single thing, you can put all 3 singings in the Free Agent thread or even the Cleveland Browns Discussion thread and make the forums a little easier to navigate. We don't have a team leader since apparently DChess is to much of a dick, and I'm not active enough [I don't know who else was nominated but if anyone else was they were turned down as well]...So there's no one to prune the threads and clean it up. So when we get these little trolls that we always get in the Browns section, it really clutters everything up.

The free agent thread in the NFL subforum however has 32 teams, so if each team has 3 signings plus rumors then it gets difficult to find what you're looking for.

DawgBone
03-03-2008, 03:14 PM
First off it's called forum etiquette to not go about post whoring multiple threads to the tune of 50+ posts in your first week of tenure.

Secondly my post wasn't that hard to read for you not to understand it. We've had 3 signings and then rumors. We don't need a thread about every single thing, you can put all 3 singings in the Free Agent thread or even the Cleveland Browns Discussion thread and make the forums a little easier to navigate. We don't have a team leader since apparently DChess is to much of a dick, and I'm not active enough [I don't know who else was nominated but if anyone else was they were turned down as well]...So there's no one to prune the threads and clean it up. So when we get these little trolls that we always get in the Browns section, it really clutters everything up.

The free agent thread in the NFL subforum however has 32 teams, so if each team has 3 signings plus rumors then it gets difficult to find what you're looking for.


you complain way to much like the average american wife.

Your not one of those posters that goes crazy over a spelling error are you?

DawgBone
03-03-2008, 03:34 PM
"First off it's called forum etiquette to not go about post whoring multiple threads to the tune of 50+ posts in your first week of tenure."

OMG! Its the first week of free agency and the Browns arguably had the biggest first 2 days in NFL history. 50 post in the two weeks Ive been a member during this type of time period equals out to be around 3 post a day which is very normal.

Exspecially after we traded for Rogers, Williams, signed Stallworth, had news on Anderson and many more potential signings.

I made a thread on the trade of Rogers, and Stallworth. And then one about a rumored trade, and a rumored signing. Quit complaining and just be a Browns fan.

PS - I have 2.6 post per day, you have 2.2, so........

RoyHall#1
03-03-2008, 04:26 PM
Hey... I'm in single digits...

keylime_5
03-03-2008, 04:28 PM
Scott put a very good assessment of Cleveland's offseason to date in his latest blog entry in case you guys haven't checked it out yet.

JSimmsy21
03-07-2008, 09:49 PM
I'm aggravated.

All these people talking about the browns off season so far and EVERYONE is saying that we screwed up by trading away all of our picks. That we took the redskins approach and it never worked for them.

everyone in defense of the browns says "there's no talent in the second and third rounds that can contribute like Williams and Rogers can." While this is probably true, no one else really knows that. the reason WE(browns fans) knows its true is b/c RAC never starts rookies. BUT...

No one ever points out this. something that so far i think I'm the only one to notice(or at least speak up about). EVERYONE says that building through the draft wins championships. While most will agree thats true, theres one thing people overlook. Those drafted rookies turn into experienced and talented vets. our roster is full of young gifted and talented players. over half of our roster are players that have 4 years experience or less. Including our starting LT, FB, WR, TE, QB, RCB, LCB, SS, FS, ROLB, MLB, and KR/PR. of those 12 positions(11 starting positions), 5 of them are either just starting, new with the team, or a rookie. one of them isn't even with the team anymore(Bodden). Of the 11 starting roles, all of them have two years of less of starting experience. thats HALF our starters.

Point i'm making, championship teams have talented and experienced vets to compliment their young talent. we(the browns) just have experienced players with average to below average talent. With the exception of our offensive linemen and our newly acquired defensive linemen. With as young as our roster is, we didnt have talented vets to help. Now we do. For as young as our roster is, we didnt really need more young players, we needed talented vets that are in their prime and aren't on the decline.

I for one, am just fine with not having any picks until round 4. All those picks went our for a good cause.

keylime_5
03-09-2008, 12:22 PM
Yeah, I love the draft and building through the draft is the way to go, but only about 40 decent players come out of any given draft on average, and the odds of us getting guys as good as Rogers and Wiliams but only 4 years younger or so in rds 2 and 3 are slim. Great trades for us, and very necessary. It's not like are entire team is built through free agency anyways, considering we have drafted or signed as UDFAs guys like Edwards, Winslow, Thomas, Vickers, Quinn, Wimbley, Jackson, Davis, Williams, Pool, Jones, McDonald, Wright, Cribbs, Dawson, and Pontbriand.

JSimmsy21
03-10-2008, 06:13 PM
Miami Guard Rex Hadnot is now a Brown. deal is reportedly a 2 year deal with 3-4M in guaranteed money.

barry
03-10-2008, 06:21 PM
this more or less answers any questions about bentley being expected to play in 2008.

kalbears13
03-10-2008, 07:36 PM
this more or less answers any questions about bentley being expected to play in 2008.

Less. I dont think it answers anything.

barry
03-11-2008, 10:51 PM
if you're trying to say: "i can't do math", ok.

kalbears13
03-12-2008, 12:14 AM
if you're trying to say: "i can't do math", ok.

How is it bad math? I was just trying to say that it doesn't really answer any questions. We don't have great depth at guard with or without Bentley.

JSimmsy21
03-12-2008, 12:51 PM
Al Wilson has meet with the browns, but i haven't seen anything more about us being interested. Wilson's agent said that "what makes the browns interesting, is what all they've done to a 10-6 team." According to the Denver Post, Wilson wants to come back to contend for a super bowl. He also has met with the Detroit Lions.

there's also reported interest in Takeo Spikes from the browns.

*edit* Gary Baxter has signed a 1-year contract with the browns. it was on NFLN and reported on scout.com. details of the contract i don't know.

j05son
03-12-2008, 07:37 PM
Al Wilson has meet with the browns, but i haven't seen anything more about us being interested. Wilson's agent said that "what makes the browns interesting, is what all they've done to a 10-6 team." According to the Denver Post, Wilson wants to come back to contend for a super bowl. He also has met with the Detroit Lions.

there's also reported interest in Takeo Spikes from the browns.

*edit* Gary Baxter has signed a 1-year contract with the browns. it was on NFLN and reported on scout.com. details of the contract i don't know.

Seriously, I thought we were finally ridden of Baxter...We do need some LB help as well...I've always been a fan of Spikes but he really hasn't been the same since his injury.

keylime_5
03-13-2008, 08:58 AM
I believe Chaun Thompson is close to a 2 year deal with the team. He's a great special teamer and when he's in on defense he does well as a blitzer and can play all 4 spots at linebacker. Never gonna start though, but a great depth player. We're not gonna sign Al Wilson though. I hope we get Takeo, but that's probably even more of a longshot.

JSimmsy21
03-13-2008, 11:04 AM
I believe Chaun Thompson is close to a 2 year deal with the team. He's a great special teamer and when he's in on defense he does well as a blitzer and can play all 4 spots at linebacker. Never gonna start though, but a great depth player. We're not gonna sign Al Wilson though. I hope we get Takeo, but that's probably even more of a longshot.

what makes you think we wont sign Takeo or Al? the browns want a veteran LB to help in the middle.

Cleveland had a visit...this was on scout.com

"Free agent DT William Joseph visited the Cleveland Browns on Wednesday, Scout.com has confirmed.

The former first-round pick of the New York Giants (2003 draft) only started 17 games over five seasons for the team.

A league source with knowledge of the situation notes Joseph never should have been selected in the first round. As the story goes, New York's former general manager, Ernie Accorsi, was so enamored with University of Miami players, he felt compelled to reach for Joseph.

Joseph had been a major underachiever for New York and missed the entire 2007 with a back injury.

The source notes Joseph, who played some snaps at defensive end in previous seasons, could play end with Cleveland if he signs with them. The source adds Joseph is probably good for about 15-20 snaps/game."

i have one more tidbit of info, and fyi, most if not all of my info comes from scout.com, and they don't report anything unless they have 2 sources, which usually remain anonymous.

for those of you who are still upset/curious about the DA signing. This has been floating around. Dallas reportedly was going to sign the offer sheet that DA was tendered too, giving up there 1st and 3rd rounds picks. THEN, trading the Browns pick that Dallas acquired along with DA to a team such as Baltimore to get into the top of round one.

This is exactly what Phil Savage was preventing. He even said that he would rather trade DA on his own terms so we wouldn't be getting a low 1st and 3rd. i've reported before that DA makes most of his money in the first year of his contract, so if he was traded, then the cap would only see a significant hit against this year.

keylime_5
03-13-2008, 03:29 PM
It doesn't sound like the Browns are nearly as interested in signing Al or Takeo as Al and Takeo are. Joseph is a guy I think we'll bring in though as a backup and/or rotational DE. We are bare at DE behind Williams and Robaire, though we do have Shaun Smith who can play DE or NT. Currently our Linebacker unit is exactly how it was last season though (assuming we finish Thompson's contract here soon): WImbley, McGinest, Peek, and McMillan at OLB and Jackson, Davis, Williams, Thompson, and Griffin at ILB.

DawgBone
03-13-2008, 03:34 PM
The DA trade is old news. Savage said it himself in those exact words alittle over a week ago in one of his press conferences.

Savage said he would consider trading DA for an early to mid first, but all he could get at this point was a late first rounder. He also stated that he will not accept a late RD1 and late RD3. It will have to be an early selection that included a RD1 & RD3. He fully plans on DA being our QB next year but without admitting it, basically said he will trade him for a high first. He backed it up by stating DA's contract will not start until late April, giving teams time to decide if they think the trade is worth it.

I honestly believe the Vikings will offer there RD1 #17 overall (which they might have allready RUMORED), but Phil said he must have a RD3 in return also and I dont think the Vikings are willing to do that at this point in time.

DawgBone
03-13-2008, 03:59 PM
Kalimba Edwards-DL-Lions Mar. 13 - 4:53 pm et

Lions released DE Kalimba Edwards.

The Lions gave Edwards a huge contract two seasons ago in hopes that he'd develop into something more than a situational pass rusher, but it never happened. He was reportedly a hard worker in practice, but could just never carry it over to a game. He was scheduled to make $3.9 million this season.



I fully exspect him to be a Brown this year and possibly start at OLB at least towards the end of the season.

keylime_5
03-13-2008, 08:07 PM
I hope we do sign Kalimba. He would be much better at OLB in a 3-4 than he was at DE in a 4-3. His talents are tailormade for our defense.

JSimmsy21
03-14-2008, 11:59 AM
The DA trade is old news. Savage said it himself in those exact words alittle over a week ago in one of his press conferences.

Savage said he would consider trading DA for an early to mid first, but all he could get at this point was a late first rounder. He also stated that he will not accept a late RD1 and late RD3. It will have to be an early selection that included a RD1 & RD3. He fully plans on DA being our QB next year but without admitting it, basically said he will trade him for a high first. He backed it up by stating DA's contract will not start until late April, giving teams time to decide if they think the trade is worth it.

I honestly believe the Vikings will offer there RD1 #17 overall (which they might have allready RUMORED), but Phil said he must have a RD3 in return also and I dont think the Vikings are willing to do that at this point in time.

you don't have to be harsh about it. i guess you already knew about Dallas wanting to sign DA then? the only reason i posted it is so poeple know why Phil decided to up the offer at the last minute. And i stated the same thing you did, savage didn't want to be stuck with a low first and third when he knew he could trade DA himself for a higher first, but isn't expected to do so.

-Shaun Rogers weighed in at 350lbs during the team physical. The Cleveland Browns coaches were pleased at what he weighed in at and want him to maintain that as his playing weight during the season.

-The Browns have talked "numbers" with RFA CB Chris Carr of the Oakland Raiders and have sent him an offer, but nothing has been returned. If the Browns were to sign Carr away from Oakland, it would not require giving up a draft pick.

-WR Troy Brown, formally of the Patriots, has interest in the Cleveland Browns, according to the Boston Herold. It's been reported that Cleveland has contacted Brown and are looked favorably on as a landing spot thanks to Romeo Crennel.

-In 2006, the Browns were expected to sign Kalimba Edwards, until the Lions upped their offer. Now that Edwards is a free agent again, there's been reports of "mutual interest." A Browns source told The OBR that they have not yet contacted Edwards agent, they are expected to do so “within the next 24 hours, probably”. A source close to Edwards confirmed that there had been no contact between the two sides “as of yet”, but fully expected to “hear from the organization at some point in the near future.”

barry
03-14-2008, 01:39 PM
The DA trade is old news. Savage said it himself in those exact words alittle over a week ago in one of his press conferences.

Savage said he would consider trading DA for an early to mid first, but all he could get at this point was a late first rounder. He also stated that he will not accept a late RD1 and late RD3. It will have to be an early selection that included a RD1 & RD3. He fully plans on DA being our QB next year but without admitting it, basically said he will trade him for a high first. He backed it up by stating DA's contract will not start until late April, giving teams time to decide if they think the trade is worth it.

I honestly believe the Vikings will offer there RD1 #17 overall (which they might have allready RUMORED), but Phil said he must have a RD3 in return also and I dont think the Vikings are willing to do that at this point in time.

if this is accurate, i suspect savage would take just the #1 *IF* a top 7 player is still on the board. a low 1st AND 3rd is worth only around 950 (at 22) while it's worth about 1500 pts to have the 10th pick in the 1st & 3rd rounds - the value of the #7 pick by itself.

that seems to be the rationale behind giving up what he did to get BQ - he gave up around 1300 pts to draft 22nd, but the player was a top 5 on savage's board - worth 1700 pts. giving up 1300 to get 1700 makes more sense - plus that 1300 pts is actualy less since it was a future pick.

so it'll depend on who's still on the board, but i expect that savage already has his list made up and will be ready to pounce.

this makes all his other comments make sense - if there's nobody available at #17 that's worth it, DA stays.

barry
03-14-2008, 01:41 PM
edwards would be an interesting addition. can he drop into pass coverage? if not, he becomes a situational player. but that can work as long as we can stop the run on 1st down and turn the possession into passing situations.

DawgBone
03-14-2008, 02:56 PM
edwards would be an interesting addition. can he drop into pass coverage? if not, he becomes a situational player. but that can work as long as we can stop the run on 1st down and turn the possession into passing situations.

Hes athletic, but noone really knows if he can drop back since he never has had to before. Im willing to say that even if he can do it, he wont be great in coverage. But we mainly need him to stop the run, especially on the left side he would play on because it is the strong side.

Edwards is 6'6 265 and should be a very simular player to Willie McGinest. Hes 28 or 29 years old FYI.



"you don't have to be harsh about it."


??? your going to have to explain your thoughts on this one.......I didnt use (!) marks or anything to hint I wanted to be harsh. So no that wasnt my intent and if it was, it would have been imature on my part.

DawgBone
03-14-2008, 03:28 PM
I really like the ption of Edwards on paper. Heres an article on Edwards while he has going through his draft process at the combine. The article is a quetion and answer article about playing DE or OLB. Its a good read.


http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives2001/draft_2001/combine_qanda_edwards.asp

He said he came into the scouting combine 6'5 1/4 and 265lbs.

DawgBone
03-14-2008, 04:06 PM
Texans | Team agrees to terms with C. Thompson
Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:35:45 -0700

Toni Grossi, of The Plain Dealer, reports the Houston Texans agreed to terms on a two-year deal worth $2.4 million with free-agent LB Chaun Thompson (Browns) Friday, March 14. Thompson will receive a $650,000 signing bonus.

keylime_5
03-14-2008, 09:53 PM
I really like the ption of Edwards on paper. Heres an article on Edwards while he has going through his draft process at the combine. The article is a quetion and answer article about playing DE or OLB. Its a good read.


http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives2001/draft_2001/combine_qanda_edwards.asp

He said he came into the scouting combine 6'5 1/4 and 265lbs.

Good read, and it basically confirms that Kalimba's father makes most of his big decisions for him in life. He practically picked his college for him and decided for him that he should resign with Detroit instead of signing with cleveland in 2006. I still hope we sign him and give him a shot as a situational pass rusher behind WImbley.

DawgBone
03-16-2008, 02:14 PM
Fabian Washington: CB
"I heard on Inside the Huddle with John Clayton and Jeremy Green on ESPN radio last night that with Oakland acquiring DeAngelo Hall the Cleveland Browns will be acquiring Fabian Washington Via a trade. They didn't specify what Oakland would receive. A combination of Wright Washington and McDonald with Holly the Dime back would make for a very nice secondary."

Also Andra Davis and Willie McGinest restructured their contracts for us.

Andra Davis, Willie McGinest get pay cuts
by Tony Grossi, Plain Dealer Reporter Sunday March 16, 2008, 8:26 AM
Not everybody with the Browns is getting contract extensions and big pay raises these days.

The team quietly reduced the contracts of two prominent former starters on defense - linebackers Andra Davis and Willie McGinest. Both players now are part of three-men rotations at their respective positions.

In December 2005, Davis signed a five-year contract extension for $20 million. That deal included a base salary in 2008 of $3 million, plus a $200,000 roster bonus. The base salaries would rise to $3.75 million in '09 and $4.1 million in 2010.

But that contract is no more. The latest figures posted on the NFL players union Web site show a base salary this year of $1.675 million for Davis. And the last two years of the deal have been wiped out.

The 44 percent pay cut might have been made up in a signing bonus to rewrite the deal to end after this season.


Davis, 29, saw his playing time reduced last year because of the emergence of Leon Williams and the use of different defensive packages. His 104 tackles were his lowest total in four years, when he missed five games with an injury.

Davis has the most tenure of any Butch Davis draft choice. He was a fifth-round pick in 2002. Besides him, only long snapper Ryan Pontbriand (2003), tight end Kellen Winslow (2004) and safety Sean Jones (2004) remain of the four Davis drafts from 2001-04.

McGinest could have made as much as $2.9 million this season in the final year of his three-year Browns contract. But that was reduced to $1.9 million after he failed to hit a Pro Bowl incentive. The players union lists McGinest's salary at $900,000 - a 47 percent cut.

McGinest, 36, played in 13 games after having back surgery in the off-season. He made 12 starts in the base defense and found himself actually playing tackle in some sub packages late in the season because of injuries to other players.

Both players have playing-time incentives that could get them back to their original levels. Messages seeking comment from the players' agents were not returned.

More salary info:

Quarterback Derek Anderson's base salaries in his new contract are $950,000 in 2008, $1.45 million in '09 and $7.45 million in 2010, according to union figures.

The union Web site does not include bonuses. Anderson will receive $8 million this year in signing and roster bonuses and has another guaranteed $5 million due in April of '09, plus $1 million in 2010.

Braylon watch:

There has been conjecture that Browns receiver Braylon Edwards switched agents to seek a new contract. That could be an expensive proposition.

The new standard for receivers is a $10 million per year average. That's what Larry Fitzgerald received from the Arizona Cardinals - $40 million over four years. Fitzgerald has made two Pro Bowls. (Edwards has made one.) That deal exceeds the $9 million average Randy Moss received from the New England Patriots over three years.

Draft update:

The Browns currently own the following picks in the April 26-27 draft:

No. 23 in the fourth round, No. 22nd in the fifth round, No. 24 in the sixth round and No. 24 in the seventh round.

The sixth-round pick is Seattle's from the trade of Charlie Frye. The Browns gave up their own sixth-round pick, No. 25, to Philadelphia in 2006 in the trade for Hank Fraley.

The overall number of these selections won't be known until the NFL awards its annual allotment of compensatory picks to teams who suffered free-agent losses the previous year.

Some of those picks may be squeezed into the middle of rounds four through seven, which would lower the Browns' selections even further.

In the past, Browns General Manager Phil Savage has said he ranks about 100 players on his draft board. He'll have to form a second board this year. As it stands, the Browns' first pick would be the 118th selection overall.

JSimmsy21
03-16-2008, 02:17 PM
i was just gonna post about washington. you beat me to it.

If Davis didnt agree to the contract restructure, they were going to release him, according to scout.com

RoyHall#1
03-16-2008, 06:12 PM
WTF? Our draft board only goes 100 players?

DawgBone
03-16-2008, 06:40 PM
We are still looking at Al Wilson as of today.....

Browns | Team to resume talks with A. Wilson
Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:40:00 -0700

Mike Klis, of the Denver Post, reports the Cleveland Browns will resume talks with free-agent LB Al Wilson (Broncos) this week.






Were also looking at another FA gaurd which I do not understand.

Matt Lehr-G-Buccaneers Mar. 16 - 6:05 pm et

The Saints and Browns are reportedly pursuing free agent G/C Matt Lehr.

The Bucs are not expected to bring him back. Lehr was accused of using steroids late last season. If he tests positive for a banned substance like he did with the Falcons in 2006, Lehr could be suspended for an entire season.
Source: Tampa Tribune



Per the Plain Dealer......
The final two years on Browns ILB Andra Davis have voided.

He'll be in a contract year and make $1.675 million in 2008. Willie McGinest also had his pay cut to $900,000 after not achieving certain bonus standards. The Cleveland Plain Dealer refers to both as "former starters." It looks like Leon Williams will be lining up next to D'Qwell Jackson more this year.

Ive been a reader on this board for close to 3 years and I remember one poster constantly stateing that Leon Williams should be our OLB? Hopefully after him being a back-up MLB and now this......that it is now cleared up?

barry
03-17-2008, 04:17 AM
the new contracts for mcginest & davis have playing time clauses that can bring their salaries up to the salary level of their previous contracts. it looks like they're hoping to clear cap space to sign someone else who might be an upgrade. but if they doesn't happen, they're still the incumbents.

757Dawg
03-17-2008, 03:24 PM
WTF? Our draft board only goes 100 players?

What do you mean only?

RoyHall#1
03-17-2008, 03:38 PM
So what do we do with our pick in the 7th if the first 100 players are gone?

DawgBone
03-17-2008, 03:52 PM
Clark Haggans-LB-Steelers Mar. 17 - 4:01 pm et

The Browns will host free agent OLB Clark Haggans on Tuesday and Wednesday.

The Colts are also thought to have interest in the 31-year-old pass rusher. Haggans has played in a 3-4 like Cleveland's for the majority of his career.
Source: Akron Beacon Journal




SIDE NOTE:
ESPN's John Clayton reports the contract DeAngelo Hall is expected to sign after he's acquired by Oakland will be for six years and over $50 million.

Nnamdi Asomugha is going to want (and deserve) at least that. Asante Samuel's with the Eagles was for six years and $57.14 million. Clayton says Raiders owner Al Davis is pulling out all the stops to make this deal a reality.

Hopefully this helps us get Washington. I think Mel Tucker can make him a very solid starter.

DawgBone
03-17-2008, 04:09 PM
Browns | Winslow rehabbing
Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:07:18 -0700

Mary Kay Cabot, of The Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns TE Kellen Winslow (knee) has been rehabbing at the Browns facility after undergoing a scope on his right knee last month.


Browns | Bentley continues to train
Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:06:23 -0700

Mary Kay Cabot, of The Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns C LeCharles Bentley (knee) will continue to train in Arizona, despite the fact the Cleveland Browns will be training in Ohio. "LeCharles will be staying in Arizona and continuing the program he's on out there," said his agent Jonathan Feinsod. "The Browns are fully on board with it." Bentley is recovering from a torn left patella tendon he suffered in July of 2006.


Nothing completely new, jus a little cheap update.

DawgBone
03-19-2008, 03:24 PM
Browns | Team to meet with B. Sapp
Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:57:46 -0700

Mike Reiss, of The Boston Globe, reports the Cleveland Browns will meet with free-agent CB Benny Sapp (Chiefs) Wednesday, March 19.


heres an overview of Benny from a Cheifs web site....lets you know alot about him....

http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/benny_sapp/


40 seconds into this clip you can see Benny Sapp return a lateral over 50 yards against THE BROWNS this year in preseason WK1.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/C_Frye_081107.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter%3Fgame_id%3D29461%26displayPage%3Dtab_g amecenter%26season%3D2007%26week%3DPRE1&h=150&w=240&sz=16&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=CZc5XWqVI2N4PM:&tbnh=69&tbnw=110&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbenny%2Bsapp%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa% 3DN

DawgBone
03-20-2008, 02:56 PM
Browns | Team to meet with Schmitt
Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:40:39 -0700

The Cleveland Browns will meet with University of West Virginia RB Owen Schmitt Thursday, March 20.



Kind of interesting. I dont think much of it. We allready have Vickers.

RoyHall#1
03-20-2008, 02:57 PM
Yeah, I'd think FB would be the last position we draft along with QB.

JSimmsy21
03-20-2008, 02:58 PM
we're also bringing in Arizona state safety Josh Barrett

Freddy G
03-20-2008, 07:42 PM
Owen Schmitt would be a very smart draft choice actually. Like i have said for quite some time, it would be like killing two birds with one stone. He would most likely be our back-up fullback as well as third TE, plus a special teams ace...which means we can cut Ali and Dinkins. Plus, Schmitt is straight badass and the type personality we need on this team.

barry
03-21-2008, 01:03 AM
we're also bringing in Arizona state safety Josh Barrett

i like him, but i doubt he'll still be available in the 4th round given his performance at the combine. hard hitter, can get fooled, but that 4.35 speed could make him a poor man's polamalu.

DawgBone
03-21-2008, 09:04 AM
Owen Schmitt would be a very smart draft choice actually. Like i have said for quite some time, it would be like killing two birds with one stone. He would most likely be our back-up fullback as well as third TE, plus a special teams ace...which means we can cut Ali and Dinkins. Plus, Schmitt is straight badass and the type personality we need on this team.

I think your wrong IMO. He would be a good player for the reasons you stated, but that doesnt make him s smart DRAFT choice. With other holes and very limited picks, we cant afford to take a FB when we allready have a future pro bowler in Vickers.

JSimmsy21
03-21-2008, 10:34 AM
I think your wrong IMO. He would be a good player for the reasons you stated, but that doesnt make him s smart DRAFT choice. With other holes and very limited picks, we cant afford to take a FB when we allready have a future pro bowler in Vickers.

i think freddy is just saying that it would be a future precaution. Ali is on a 1 year contract and Dinkins has one year left his his contract, i do believe. Dinkins is getting older and unless Ali takes huge strides this year, then we don't have a replacement. besides, this Schmitt guy would be a 6 or 7 rounder probably. as long as we didn't use our 4th or 5th on him, i think it wouldn't be a bad choice. granted, i know absolutely nothing about this Schmitt guy.

Freddy G
03-21-2008, 02:19 PM
Sure we have limited picks, but incase you didn't realize, they are all on the second day. Which means the chances we are going to get a stud to fill even one of our holes are about the same as Romeo not having a double baconater today. On the second day of the draft your usually looking for great athletes or great depth....if your looking for immediate starters or even stop gaps your fooling yourself...Owen Schmitt is exactly the type of player your looking to get in rounds 5-7 regardless of position.

DawgBone
03-21-2008, 02:42 PM
i think freddy is just saying that it would be a future precaution. Ali is on a 1 year contract and Dinkins has one year left his his contract, i do believe. Dinkins is getting older and unless Ali takes huge strides this year, then we don't have a replacement. besides, this Schmitt guy would be a 6 or 7 rounder probably. as long as we didn't use our 4th or 5th on him, i think it wouldn't be a bad choice. granted, i know absolutely nothing about this Schmitt guy.

Precaution? Were not replacing a starter here. Were talking a back-up fullback and third string TE.






Browns | Team agrees to terms with Orr
Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:22:23 -0700

NFL.com reports the Cleveland Browns agreed to terms with free-agent LB Shantee Orr (Jaguars) on a one-year deal Wednesday, March 19, according to NFL Network's Adam Schefter. Financial terms of the deal were not disclosed. Orr is expected to start at outside linebacker.

JSimmsy21
03-21-2008, 04:49 PM
i got an update on Stallworth's contract according to the OBR.

while most of you, including myself, were pretty confused at the 10 mil guaranteed money we through at him. While technically a seven-year, $35 million deal, the contract could better be described as a one-year, $5.655 million deal, with a club option for six more years.

Stallworth was given a $4.5 million signing bonus and has a base salary of $605,000 in 2008, of which $500,000 is guaranteed. Stallworth also will receive a $50,000 workout bonus this year and $500,000 of his $745,000 base salary in 2009 is guaranteed.

However, in March of 2009, Stallworth is due a roster bonus of $4.875 million and scheduled to carry a cap number just north of $6.4 million in the second year of the deal. Unless Stallworth has an amazing year he probably wont ever see that money.

Should Stallworth make it past the first year of the deal, he has scheduled roster bonuses of $1.5 million in 2010, and $500,000 in each of the last four years of the deal.

What this means is, the remaining guaranteed money that isnt paid in the first year of the contract will be dividing evenly and counted against our cap for the following six years.

Precaution? Were not replacing a starter here. Were talking a back-up fullback and third string TE.

Why does it seem you think your always right and everyone else is wrong. You do a great job with updates on signings and potential players of interest to the browns, but maybe you should start re-wording your posts. Instead of saying "Your wrong because (insert reasoning here)", try and posting "i think (insert topic here) because (insert reasoning here)."

While I'm at it, I'm not saying we're replacing a starter here. Freddy is right. in rounds 5-7, teams are pretty much only looking for depth, project, or special team players. This Schmitt guy that Freddy is so high on could fall under all those categories for this team. Like i've said before, Ali is under a one year contract and Dinkins has one year left in his. BOTH these players are KEY special teamers. They help make Josh Cribbs. Dinkins is a great special teamer and everyone knows it, and the browns love the way Ali can hit. if we were to lose both of them next year(with dinkins age its likely he'll be gone), expect Cribbs' numbers to go down. IF this Schmitt guy is potentially that good, then we wouldn't be replacing a starter, we'd be help keeping a special teams unit intact.

DawgBone
03-21-2008, 05:55 PM
"Why does it seem you think your always right and everyone else is wrong. You do a great job with updates on signings and potential players of interest to the browns, but maybe you should start re-wording your posts. Instead of saying "Your wrong because (insert reasoning here)", try and posting "i think (insert topic here) because (insert reasoning here)."

That is what Jsimmsy21 wrote......
Well here is my exact quote, tell me I didnt do what you ask?......


"I think your wrong IMO. He would be a good player for the reasons you stated, but that doesnt make him s smart DRAFT choice. With other holes and very limited picks, we cant afford to take a FB when we allready have a future pro bowler in Vickers."


Did I not write, I THINK, followed by IMO??????? Gesh get off my case, I made it clear that despite his thoughts, that these were my own and thats about as far as the merit goes with them!


And I stand behind MY OPINION (did I state it clearly enough), that you do not draft a guy (when we allready have limited picks) as a fullback, when we allready have 2 on the roster that can and will make the team, and to be the 3rd string TE, when hes never played TE and would actually be 4rth string behind Winslow, Heiden, and Dinkins.

Schmitt is my favorite FB prospect in the last 5 years, but that does not mean it is SMART to draft him. Would he be a good player? FK YES, but not a smart draft pick for a team that has other needs with minimal picks.


Does this not make sence?

FB depth:
Laurence Vickers (who is pro bowl material and YOUNG!)
Charles Ali (allready a good ST player) amd RESIGNED! for a reason!

TE depth:
Kellen Winslow
Steve Heiden
Darnell Dinkins

There just isnt room to cary 3 FB's or 4 TE's, so I cannot justify it being a "smart" draft pick on a team that desperatly needs DL depth, CB depth, potentially a RB or WR and preferebly more LB's. By signing Charles Ali for another year, it it solves the problem for a whole year, it doesnt mean we have to take care of it this year. Half the teams in the league dont even carry 2 FB's much less 3.

If you have ever seen Schmitt play, you know he will be drafted around RD4 or 5. Unless you plan on using our RD4 pick, then dont think of him as an option. And you mentioned you HAVENT seen him play which really makes me quetion why your fighting this topic so hard?

Noone wants Owen on this team for our RD4 pick. And there is no chance in hell he last until late RD6 where we pick next so......

JSimmsy21
03-22-2008, 11:08 AM
"You can have opinions, that seems fair, but when you start throwing in false information such as this.....it makes you look bad."

that a nice way to put it.

"I agree but.....

Joe Thomas was a rookie
Eric Steinbach was in his first year with the team
Hank Fraley was in his 2nd
Ryan Tucker had never played RG in his life
Kevin Shaffer was allways a LT before training camp and moved to RT"

you didn't do you homework. Tucker played RG for the RAMS his rookie season when he moved there when their RG got hurt.

"Your only argument is experience, but after the first game of the season the Browns entire OL only gave up 7 sacks. thats less than .5 per game. "

we gave up 19 the whole season. you already know that. six or seven came in the first game. Charlie Frye got sacked five or six times and DA got sacked once. The browns OL allowed 19 sacks the whole season, only 12 or 13 for the last 15 weeks. i have NO CLUE where your seven came from.

"Jake Long dominated everyone he faced in college.......except Gholston. So if there is such a thing as "owned" Gholston did it.

Weather you like it or not, when people think of Long and GHolston head to head, this is the only thing that matters........."

thats right, i forgot, if a rare physical specieman beats someone around the corner that benched the same reps as long did but is a hell of a lot faster, that makes one sack in 2 games "owned." i dont watch michigan games, but i watch the OSU/MICH games, and Gholston never "owned" long. he never bullrushed him. never game him a move. just blew by him on one play in one game.

"you complain way to much like the average american wife.

Your not one of those posters that goes crazy over a spelling error are you?"

this was towards J05son because we criticized you on your "forum etiquette". you do know he was the top person on this board to be the moderator right? you probably didn't look that up.

these are all direct quotes from DawgBone. In all of them you are either wrong on your facts or almost ignorant in you post. YOU my friend, are not always right. i've stated in my last post, try posting JUST what you think instead of trying to ridicule others for their post. some of which you've only made a fool of yourself by not knowing what your talking about.

i've never claimed to know more or less than anyone on this website, but i know when someone is wrong about something. these are die hard browns fans on this site, and they support anything that can improve this team on ANY level. these are people that were here BEFORE the 10-6 season.

i've only supported freddy's thought process on that schmitt guy because of his logic and his report ability to fill 2 roles. and regardless of where this guy lands, he'll probably be on the practice squad for a full year. plus, I'd have to say from everyone that posts in the browns part of this forum, Freddy probably knows the most about the draft prospects that could wind up in Cleveland.

your good at putting up to date information for the browns on this website, and i think i've even given you +rep before for your posts on that stuff. maybe, however, you should just stick to that copy and past stuff since all your other posts are either false information or subtly accusing someone else of being wrong and you being right.

DawgBone
03-22-2008, 12:52 PM
"You can have opinions, that seems fair, but when you start throwing in false information such as this.....it makes you look bad."

that a nice way to put it.

"I agree but.....

Joe Thomas was a rookie
Eric Steinbach was in his first year with the team
Hank Fraley was in his 2nd
Ryan Tucker had never played RG in his life
Kevin Shaffer was allways a LT before training camp and moved to RT"

you didn't do you homework. Tucker played RG for the RAMS his rookie season when he moved there when their RG got hurt.

"Your only argument is experience, but after the first game of the season the Browns entire OL only gave up 7 sacks. thats less than .5 per game. "

we gave up 19 the whole season. you already know that. six or seven came in the first game. Charlie Frye got sacked five or six times and DA got sacked once. The browns OL allowed 19 sacks the whole season, only 12 or 13 for the last 15 weeks. i have NO CLUE where your seven came from.

"Jake Long dominated everyone he faced in college.......except Gholston. So if there is such a thing as "owned" Gholston did it.

Weather you like it or not, when people think of Long and GHolston head to head, this is the only thing that matters........."

thats right, i forgot, if a rare physical specieman beats someone around the corner that benched the same reps as long did but is a hell of a lot faster, that makes one sack in 2 games "owned." i dont watch michigan games, but i watch the OSU/MICH games, and Gholston never "owned" long. he never bullrushed him. never game him a move. just blew by him on one play in one game.

"you complain way to much like the average american wife.

Your not one of those posters that goes crazy over a spelling error are you?"

this was towards J05son because we criticized you on your "forum etiquette". you do know he was the top person on this board to be the moderator right? you probably didn't look that up.

these are all direct quotes from DawgBone. In all of them you are either wrong on your facts or almost ignorant in you post. YOU my friend, are not always right. i've stated in my last post, try posting JUST what you think instead of trying to ridicule others for their post. some of which you've only made a fool of yourself by not knowing what your talking about.

i've never claimed to know more or less than anyone on this website, but i know when someone is wrong about something. these are die hard browns fans on this site, and they support anything that can improve this team on ANY level. these are people that were here BEFORE the 10-6 season.

i've only supported freddy's thought process on that schmitt guy because of his logic and his report ability to fill 2 roles. and regardless of where this guy lands, he'll probably be on the practice squad for a full year. plus, I'd have to say from everyone that posts in the browns part of this forum, Freddy probably knows the most about the draft prospects that could wind up in Cleveland.

your good at putting up to date information for the browns on this website, and i think i've even given you +rep before for your posts on that stuff. maybe, however, you should just stick to that copy and past stuff since all your other posts are either false information or subtly accusing someone else of being wrong and you being right.

What do you mean im not allways right? Do you know that I was a moderator an online website 9 years ago? Honestly! Your lucky, I almost numbchucked your ass.

j05son
03-22-2008, 06:31 PM
"You can have opinions, that seems fair, but when you start throwing in false information such as this.....it makes you look bad."

that a nice way to put it.

"I agree but.....

Joe Thomas was a rookie
Eric Steinbach was in his first year with the team
Hank Fraley was in his 2nd
Ryan Tucker had never played RG in his life
Kevin Shaffer was allways a LT before training camp and moved to RT"

you didn't do you homework. Tucker played RG for the RAMS his rookie season when he moved there when their RG got hurt.

"Your only argument is experience, but after the first game of the season the Browns entire OL only gave up 7 sacks. thats less than .5 per game. "

we gave up 19 the whole season. you already know that. six or seven came in the first game. Charlie Frye got sacked five or six times and DA got sacked once. The browns OL allowed 19 sacks the whole season, only 12 or 13 for the last 15 weeks. i have NO CLUE where your seven came from.

"Jake Long dominated everyone he faced in college.......except Gholston. So if there is such a thing as "owned" Gholston did it.

Weather you like it or not, when people think of Long and GHolston head to head, this is the only thing that matters........."

thats right, i forgot, if a rare physical specieman beats someone around the corner that benched the same reps as long did but is a hell of a lot faster, that makes one sack in 2 games "owned." i dont watch michigan games, but i watch the OSU/MICH games, and Gholston never "owned" long. he never bullrushed him. never game him a move. just blew by him on one play in one game.

"you complain way to much like the average american wife.

Your not one of those posters that goes crazy over a spelling error are you?"

this was towards J05son because we criticized you on your "forum etiquette". you do know he was the top person on this board to be the moderator right? you probably didn't look that up.

these are all direct quotes from DawgBone. In all of them you are either wrong on your facts or almost ignorant in you post. YOU my friend, are not always right. i've stated in my last post, try posting JUST what you think instead of trying to ridicule others for their post. some of which you've only made a fool of yourself by not knowing what your talking about.

i've never claimed to know more or less than anyone on this website, but i know when someone is wrong about something. these are die hard browns fans on this site, and they support anything that can improve this team on ANY level. these are people that were here BEFORE the 10-6 season.

i've only supported freddy's thought process on that schmitt guy because of his logic and his report ability to fill 2 roles. and regardless of where this guy lands, he'll probably be on the practice squad for a full year. plus, I'd have to say from everyone that posts in the browns part of this forum, Freddy probably knows the most about the draft prospects that could wind up in Cleveland.

your good at putting up to date information for the browns on this website, and i think i've even given you +rep before for your posts on that stuff. maybe, however, you should just stick to that copy and past stuff since all your other posts are either false information or subtly accusing someone else of being wrong and you being right.

It's alright, I give him neg rep whenever I can...I had him in the red today but some idiot got him in the green...After I spread some rep around he'll be back in the red.

p.s. I wasn't top for moderator I was just nominated for Team Leader along with DChess and maybe BT. DChess is to mean and I'm not active enough and I don't know why BT wasn't chosen...

Cribbs>Hester
03-22-2008, 08:40 PM
Does anyone know if we are still interested in Fabian Washington? I had heard this when the DeAngelo Hall rumors started. I'd like that trade, but I'd rather us give up a 5th this year and a 5th next year instead of our 4th rounder this year.

JSimmsy21
03-22-2008, 09:11 PM
Does anyone know if we are still interested in Fabian Washington? I had heard this when the DeAngelo Hall rumors started. I'd like that trade, but I'd rather us give up a 5th this year and a 5th next year instead of our 4th rounder this year.

from what i know, there is still interest. It all depends on what Oakland wants for him.

Ruken
03-23-2008, 12:17 AM
yea we neeed corner depth but I doubt we would be willing to give up many picks for him we need some this year

DawgBone
03-23-2008, 10:53 AM
yea we neeed corner depth but I doubt we would be willing to give up many picks for him we need some this year

The fact that we offered Benny Sapp a contract means were probably not going to give Oakland what they would want for Washington. Sapp would be a nickle CB, and not as good as Washington, but they would both most likely come in to play nickle so were directing towards a cheaper Sapp now.

DawgBone
03-23-2008, 10:56 AM
It's alright, I give him neg rep whenever I can...I had him in the red today but some idiot got him in the green...After I spread some rep around he'll be back in the red.

p.s. I wasn't top for moderator I was just nominated for Team Leader along with DChess and maybe BT. DChess is to mean and I'm not active enough and I don't know why BT wasn't chosen...

Makes you wonder why you didnt get it now right? I mean trying to spread negative rep is against board rules. But someone like you probably didnt even read them im guessing?

PS im reporting you with this quote because I dont think this is the reason Scott gave us the priviledge to rep people. And if I continue to get negative merited reps from you, then Im sure Scott will take action.

kalbears13
03-23-2008, 11:00 AM
Makes you wonder why you didnt get it now right? I mean trying to spread negative rep is against board rules. But someone like you probably didnt even read them im guessing?

PS im reporting you with this quote because I dont think this is the reason Scott gave us the priviledge to rep people. And if I continue to get negative merited reps from you, then Im sure Scott will take action.

He doesn't mean spread around negative rep. You can't rep someone multiple times until you rep other people, positive or negative. Also if you want something done then you go to a mod. Not scott.

DawgBone
03-23-2008, 11:05 AM
He doesn't mean spread around negative rep. You can't rep someone multiple times until you rep other people, positive or negative. Also if you want something done then you go to a mod. Not scott.

Na it would be childish for me to report him. I just want him to get rid of vendetas he obviously has. But whatever he choses, just do it in a professional way.




While were in the Browns discussion thread I wanted to bring something up for our QB controversy that has nothing to do with actually throwing the ball.

Does anyone think the fact than Quinn has mass jersey sales and allready 3 nationally televised commersials will effect things in the near future? I mean fans want him, the media wants him etc....

I just have a feeling that this game is a buisness when it boils down to it, and Quinn brings it more than DA does off the field. If the competition is still close, wouldnt you go with the guy that not only cost less in the future, but produces the organization more money? He is so much more marketable than Anderson is. If you go to the Browns official web page or NFL.com they dont even sell DA jerseys, but the Quinn jerseys sell very well.


ALSO: Here are the top 10 plays of the years from the Browns. The official links are from clevelandbrowns.com main page.

on the cleveland browns official website, they had the top 10 plays of the year voted on by the fans. See the results.

Read it
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=8286

or

Watch it
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/multimedia/mediaplayer.php?id=4741
and
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/multimedia/mediaplayer.php?id=4782

sorry if this was allready posted.


Also does anyone remember the article that quoted Kellen Winslow last offseason (2006-07) saying were in the process of designing a new uniform for the 09 Browns. He mentioned that the players were involved in the changes and they might add something simular to what the Broncos have. We were a team that just finishes 4-12 and had some horrible seasons leading up to 2007. There was a huge online petetion from fans asking to keep our traditional and historic uni's as apposed to new ones to help jump start a slumping franchise. I think that after a 10-6 season and hopefully a 2008 season that will build upon that, we have eliminated the chances of getting redesigned uni's in the near future.

original article with quotes from Kellen...
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/4212


AND FINALLY: Here is the scouting report from Scott of the MLB the Browns most recently are reported to have interest in in the draft....
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/olb/bryankehl.html

757Dawg
03-23-2008, 02:02 PM
I just need to chime in with something.

If people are really getting worked up about "rep" on a message board.....perhaps your priorities aren't exactly in order.

DawgBone
03-23-2008, 05:43 PM
I just need to chime in with something.

If people are really getting worked up about "rep" on a message board.....perhaps your priorities aren't exactly in order.

I dont think anyone really cares much about rep. But we do care about pride and reputation reflects that. When someone is throwing neg. rep around just to piss someone off then it is irresposible and they will be reported (especially after they admited it in a post) to management. Its just imature and theres no room for it with Browns fans. Maybe in a Steelers board.

and to clear it up

NEGATIVE REP = a bad or misinformed post. It lets someone know how respected a posters opinions or factual information are. If I see someone posting supposed factual information, but has 6 red bars, I will most likely discredit it until someone else backs it. And when posters throw neg. rep out to be a dick, it can ruin a very helpful asset this board has.

j05son
03-23-2008, 06:19 PM
I dont think anyone really cares much about rep. But we do care about pride and reputation reflects that. When someone is throwing neg. rep around just to piss someone off then it is irresposible and they will be reported (especially after they admited it in a post) to management. Its just imature and theres no room for it with Browns fans. Maybe in a Steelers board.

and to clear it up

NEGATIVE REP = a bad or misinformed post. It lets someone know how respected a posters opinions or factual information are. If I see someone posting supposed factual information, but has 6 red bars, I will most likely discredit it until someone else backs it. And when posters throw neg. rep out to be a dick, it can ruin a very helpful asset this board has.

When you cry about rep is when you get rep raped. I'm new here, your beyond new, I don't expect you to know but you can report me, P-L or Jbond are the admins and there are lots of mods... It's my rep I can do whatever I want with it.

When people cry about their rep like you are [and how HinesWardjr did] they get repraped and get negged by the high ranking members. Jbond repraped draftking from 4green to 2 red bars.

M.O.T.H. negged MoS weekly [in MoS's words].

Feel free to report me or neg rep me, like you said rep is rep but you sure feel the need to complain about it. One neg rep from DChess/Jbond and I'll bet you I'll be in the red.

P.S. rep doesn't always indicate quality posts...

Plus if you want reasoning for my neg reps to you then you can look at the start when you made 3 threads a day. You've stopped that but just belittle every person that posts and how they are wrong. We go from one troll to another every month in the Browns thread. From T-bra to KyleOrton to you. Congratulations on being the next ignorant dick that thinks he knows all and lays into the other members with their profound wisdom and know all and come to gloat on a message board. Guess you didn't make it as a scout or person "in the know". If you think you know football so well, go speak to toonster and you'll **** and stop ripping people and saying everything they mention or hope we draft is incorrect and stupid.

P.S.
What do you mean im not allways right? Do you know that I was a moderator an online website 9 years ago? Honestly! Your lucky, I almost numbchucked your ass. Your last line as stupid as it sounds [and quote from a movie] is still threatening and can be an infraction. JSimmsy has an Infraction for a very similar quote...

DawgBone
03-23-2008, 08:17 PM
delete. double post

DawgBone
03-23-2008, 09:26 PM
delete. same double post.

DawgBone
03-23-2008, 09:31 PM
[QUOTE=DawgBone;966237]"Plus if you want reasoning for my neg reps to you then you can look at the start when you made 3 threads a day."


jO5son - I made 4 threads total, far from 3 a day.

Thread#1 - title
Shaun Rogers to Cleveland
do you honestly have a problem with this thread?
Thread#2 - title
Stallworth possibly a Brown soon
This thread is dedicated to the signing of Donte Stallworth because it was known he would sign with Cleveland but no links yet. I dont think anyone should argue the merit of this thread aswell.
Thread#3 - title
Red Hadnot visit
I agree this thread should have never been made, but he ended up signing. It was a mistake by me, but not one I should get harrassed about by you.
Thread#4 -title
Lito Sheppard trade
You can rip this trade rumor thread all you want, but then I will have to bring this thread you created back in your face.....


Trade Down News: (thread created by j05son)
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=31&page=5&order=desc



AND dont ever critisize me for making threads when you created these two 2 days apart from each other.....care to explain?

INTERVIEW WITH ROB CHUDZINSKI
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9478

Offical Browns Media and Interview thread...
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9559

Is an "Interview with Chud" not a qualification for going in an "official browns media and interview thread" you also created within 2 days? So after doing research you should be the last person critisizing me over this kind of thing.

And since this is the "Browns discussion board" I would love to get back on topic by posting this solid article written today that gives Phil Savage props on his hard work.....
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19416116&BRD=1698&PAG=461&dept_id=21848&rfi=6

j05son
03-23-2008, 10:51 PM
[QUOTE=DawgBone;966237]"Plus if you want reasoning for my neg reps to you then you can look at the start when you made 3 threads a day."


jO5son - I made 4 threads total, far from 3 a day.

Thread#1 - title
Shaun Rogers to Cleveland
do you honestly have a problem with this thread?
Thread#2 - title
Stallworth possibly a Brown soon
This thread is dedicated to the signing of Donte Stallworth because it was known he would sign with Cleveland but no links yet. I dont think anyone should argue the merit of this thread aswell.
Thread#3 - title
Red Hadnot visit
I agree this thread should have never been made, but he ended up signing. It was a mistake by me, but not one I should get harrassed about by you.
Thread#4 -title
Lito Sheppard trade
You can rip this trade rumor thread all you want, but then I will have to bring this thread you created back in your face.....


Trade Down News: (thread created by j05son)
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=31&page=5&order=desc



AND dont ever critisize me for making threads when you created these two 2 days apart from each other.....care to explain?

INTERVIEW WITH ROB CHUDZINSKI
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9478

Offical Browns Media and Interview thread...
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=31&page=3&order=desc

Is an "Interview with Chud" not a qualification for going in an "official browns media and interview thread" you also created within 2 days? So after doing research you should be the last person critisizing me over this kind of thing.

And since this is the "Browns discussion board" I would love to get back on topic by posting this solid article written today that gives Phil Savage props on his hard work.....
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19416116&BRD=1698&PAG=461&dept_id=21848&rfi=6

Triple post for the win, not knowing the difference between a double post and a triple for the win, and not checking the time stamps for the win...Keep going DawgBone, keep going...

DawgBone
03-23-2008, 11:09 PM
[QUOTE=DawgBone;966355]

Triple post for the win, not knowing the difference between a double post and a triple for the win, and not checking the time stamps for the win...Keep going DawgBone, keep going...

No I just went to edit my original post and it kept recreating it, computer error that I did my best to fix, dont dodge the main point. I think I deserve an explanation after having to deal with your rant. At least man up about it. Did you find my 3 threads a day?

DawgBone
03-23-2008, 11:42 PM
solid Q&A with Tony Grossi from todays Cleveland Plain Dealer.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2008/03/tony_grossi_answers_your_cleve.html

Ruken
03-23-2008, 11:55 PM
Ok how about this whole thing is dropped and we get back to talking about the browns?

twotondawg
03-24-2008, 12:16 AM
I would just like to say that Jake Long has, in fact, been bull rushed by Vernon Gholston. It wasnt a sack but it was dang impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yot9ClPvZDg

I watch that vid and a smile is immediately on my face. Hope it does the same for everybody else. Muck Fichigan.

JSimmsy21
03-24-2008, 08:06 PM
Quentin Groves was brought in for a visit by the browns. Also, Shawn Crable's name has been thrown around alot in Berea.

the "insiders" seem to think that b/c of savages natural desire to pull triggers on trades, it wouldn't be surprising that if one of the potential LB's fell that savage do what he does best.

DawgBone
03-24-2008, 10:23 PM
Quentin Groves was brought in for a visit by the browns. Also, Shawn Crable's name has been thrown around alot in Berea.

the "insiders" seem to think that b/c of savages natural desire to pull triggers on trades, it wouldn't be surprising that if one of the potential LB's fell that savage do what he does best.

Groves is my favorite OLB prospect. He had an off year because of a leg/foot injury. I think if he falls the slightest bit we should invest something in him.

Im still willing to trade DA on draft day for two of ATL's round2 picks and maybe a 3rd or 4rth.

We could trade the two RD2's for a later RD1 and draft Groves. Leaving us with a 3rd.

barry
03-25-2008, 02:28 AM
i didn't know groves was hurt. i've read rumors of minnesota offering their #1 pick for DA. if savage is really that high on groves, then i could see DA going to minnesota if groves is still on the board at #17 - which is a very real possibility given that long, gholston, merling & harvey are arguably ranked above groves.

IIRC crable is projected as a 2nd day pick at this point. if he or davis (ucla) are still available in the 4th round i'd like to see us grab one of those two, assuming we don't draft someone else higher. davis probably needs more work on his pass coverage though.

JSimmsy21
03-25-2008, 11:41 AM
Groves is my favorite OLB prospect. He had an off year because of a leg/foot injury. I think if he falls the slightest bit we should invest something in him.

Im still willing to trade DA on draft day for two of ATL's round2 picks and maybe a 3rd or 4rth.

We could trade the two RD2's for a later RD1 and draft Groves. Leaving us with a 3rd.

i like Groves alot too. he's the prototypical SAM LB in a 3-4 with great measurables and workouts.

P.S. ATL has no interest in DA at all. thats according to Adam Caplan, Barry McBride, John Taylor.. all the other "insiders"

i didn't know groves was hurt. i've read rumors of minnesota offering their #1 pick for DA. if savage is really that high on groves, then i could see DA going to minnesota if groves is still on the board at #17 - which is a very real possibility given that long, gholston, merling & harvey are arguably ranked above groves.

IIRC crable is projected as a 2nd day pick at this point. if he or davis (ucla) are still available in the 4th round i'd like to see us grab one of those two, assuming we don't draft someone else higher. davis probably needs more work on his pass coverage though.

minny is the one team that, according to my sources, hasn't lost interest in DA. BUT, people are still so sold on the fact that DA will get delt that they are still overlooking that fact that Savage has said that DA will be the starter next year. i know as well as everyone what savage does and what savage says and vary, but nothing will happen till draft day, possibly not till draft day of '09.

P.S. Crable is projected to go between rounds 2-3.

here the whole list of players that i know of that have come in for visits
RB Cory Boyd, South Carolina
WR Mario Urrutia, Louisville
DE Quentin Groves, Auburn
LB Beau Bell UNLV
LB Stanford Keglar, Purdue
S Josh Barrett Arizona State
CB Charles Godfrey, Iowa
*CB Antwaun Molden, Eastern Kentucky

*doesn't count against the 20 players allowing b/c of attendance of a local high school.

here's the links for this site for the more under the radar players.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/rb/coryboyd.html
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/mariourrutia.html
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/olb/stanfordkeglar.html
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/cb/charlesgodfrey.html
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/cb/antwaunmolden.html

DawgBone
03-25-2008, 12:37 PM
i like Groves alot too. he's the prototypical SAM LB in a 3-4 with great measurables and workouts.

P.S. ATL has no interest in DA at all. thats according to Adam Caplan, Barry McBride, John Taylor.. all the other "insiders"



minny is the one team that, according to my sources, hasn't lost interest in DA. BUT, people are still so sold on the fact that DA will get delt that they are still overlooking that fact that Savage has said that DA will be the starter next year. i know as well as everyone what savage does and what savage says and vary, but nothing will happen till draft day, possibly not till draft day of '09.

P.S. Crable is projected to go between rounds 2-3.

here the whole list of players that i know of that have come in for visits
RB Cory Boyd, South Carolina
WR Mario Urrutia, Louisville
DE Quentin Groves, Auburn
LB Beau Bell UNLV
LB Stanford Keglar, Purdue
S Josh Barrett Arizona State
CB Charles Godfrey, Iowa
*CB Antwaun Molden, Eastern Kentucky

*doesn't count against the 20 players allowing b/c of attendance of a local high school.

here's the links for this site for the more under the radar players.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/rb/coryboyd.html
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/mariourrutia.html
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/olb/stanfordkeglar.html
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/cb/charlesgodfrey.html
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/cb/antwaunmolden.html


Nice work. I have allways thought ATL has to many needs to go after a QB right now. But the Vikings are a QB away from a playoff run. They have the great D and great run game. They got a WR the desperatly needed to tag with Sidney Rice. Everyone knows about the left side of their OL. They need a QB and maybe a TE to make a run.

Chris Speilmans brother is the GM of the Viks that makes all the calls and Chris has allready leaked some info. Even if it didnt happen yet or at all Chris should at least have a clue that it was discussed.

Ive heard very solid rumors that Minnesota offered their RD1 #17 for DA allready but Savage wasnt so quick to pull the trigger. Shortly after, we resigned DA, to a very tradeable contract that doesnt see a pay out until late April.

This sets up a trade for around draft time.

Phil is a smart guy and has looked at every scenario his cards can be played. If he made a trade for the #17 right now, the player he wants (there might only be one or two) might not last until pick 17. If and when a trade happens it wont be until the #17 pick comes up on draft day IMO so Phil can weight the options.

Back to the rumor......It was said that the Viks offered the #17, but Phil is sticking to his demand of an early to mid RD1 and RD3. The Viks werent willing to give their RD3 as of now.

It has also been said that numerous teams have offered their later RD1 picks for DA, but Phil doesnt think a later RD1 will get the player he wants and other teams would then use the pick to trade even higher in the draft (possibly giving DA to Baltimore).

I think with the evidence we have, Phil hasnt got what he wants but clearly wants something. Until all the pro days and personal workouts for the top rated QB's are through the teams interested in DA will not be clear on where they stand at the QB position. Phil also understood this and thats why he made DA's contract payout start late April. Phil is clearly willing to go into the 08 season with stability at the QB position for us Browns, but it should seem clear hes willing to take another risk after all the others he has taken in the last 2 years.

At the same time if a trade never happens DA will be the starter in 2008 and that is why Phil is saying such things in recent interviews. Even if he wants to attempt a trade, the worste thing he could do is make it look like there is a QB controversy. That would hurt DA's value.

DawgBone
03-25-2008, 02:19 PM
Yahoo.com made there 32 team NFL offseason-power rankings. Browns are pretty high on the list.....

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AlTWr8A9DWdbQFzDKCzX9_k5nYcB?slug=cr-rankings032408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

barry
03-26-2008, 05:54 PM
Nice work.

i agree, nice post.


Ive heard very solid rumors that Minnesota offered their RD1 #17 for DA allready but Savage wasnt so quick to pull the trigger. Shortly after, we resigned DA, to a very tradeable contract that doesnt see a pay out until late April.

This sets up a trade for around draft time.

Phil is a smart guy and has looked at every scenario his cards can be played. If he made a trade for the #17 right now, the player he wants (there might only be one or two) might not last until pick 17. If and when a trade happens it wont be until the #17 pick comes up on draft day IMO so Phil can weight the options.

Back to the rumor......It was said that the Viks offered the #17, but Phil is sticking to his demand of an early to mid RD1 and RD3. The Viks werent willing to give their RD3 as of now.

It has also been said that numerous teams have offered their later RD1 picks for DA, but Phil doesnt think a later RD1 will get the player he wants and other teams would then use the pick to trade even higher in the draft (possibly giving DA to Baltimore).

I think with the evidence we have, Phil hasnt got what he wants but clearly wants something. Until all the pro days and personal workouts for the top rated QB's are through the teams interested in DA will not be clear on where they stand at the QB position. Phil also understood this and thats why he made DA's contract payout start late April. Phil is clearly willing to go into the 08 season with stability at the QB position for us Browns, but it should seem clear hes willing to take another risk after all the others he has taken in the last 2 years.

At the same time if a trade never happens DA will be the starter in 2008 and that is why Phil is saying such things in recent interviews. Even if he wants to attempt a trade, the worste thing he could do is make it look like there is a QB controversy. That would hurt DA's value.

i think that this is the best interpretation of what we can see.

phil's probably got a top 10 players list and if one of them is available at 17 *and* assuming we can pry a 3rd rd pick away from the vikings DA is probably gone.

groves would be nice, but that CB from tennessee state rogers-cromartie is 6-1 and runs a 4.3, probably a top 15 pick at this point.

the good thing is that there are a lot defensive players that are legit top 15 picks, and we could use just about any of them.

JSimmsy21
03-28-2008, 02:27 PM
we resigned seth mcKinney today. its a 1 year deal. thats all i know so far

barry
03-29-2008, 04:48 PM
savage: "At this point, we feel we have seven starters competing for five positions,"

*now*, can you do the math?

keylime_5
03-31-2008, 11:02 AM
Thomas, Steinbach, Fraley, Tucker, Shaffer, Hadnot, McKinney. 1 2 3, 4 5 6, 7. 7. (to take a page out of sesame street). Don't forget Friedman who might not be a starting caliber OG/C, but he's a great backup guy. We are loaded at O-Line, which is weird considering that just over 1 year ago before we drafted Joe and signed Eric we were thin and weak there.

kalbears13
03-31-2008, 08:04 PM
Thomas, Steinbach, Fraley, Tucker, Shaffer, Hadnot, McKinney. 1 2 3, 4 5 6, 7. 7. (to take a page out of sesame street). Don't forget Friedman who might not be a starting caliber OG/C, but he's a great backup guy. We are loaded at O-Line, which is weird considering that just over 1 year ago before we drafted Joe and signed Eric we were thin and weak there.

I wonder if Phil has thought about drafting Count Von Count as a Nickelback...

barry
04-01-2008, 02:40 AM
Thomas, Steinbach, Fraley, Tucker, Shaffer, Hadnot, McKinney. 1 2 3, 4 5 6, 7. 7. (to take a page out of sesame street). Don't forget Friedman who might not be a starting caliber OG/C, but he's a great backup guy. We are loaded at O-Line, which is weird considering that just over 1 year ago before we drafted Joe and signed Eric we were thin and weak there.

and what might be most amazing is that bentley is not in the mix in terms of overall depth. this doesn't seem to bode well for sowells either. how many OLs do we normally carry during the regular season?

Iamcanadian
04-01-2008, 07:57 AM
and what might be most amazing is that bentley is not in the mix in terms of overall depth. this doesn't seem to bode well for sowells either. how many OLs do we normally carry during the regular season?

My guess is that Bentley is done as a player and isn't in the team's thinking.

JSimmsy21
04-01-2008, 11:59 AM
here the new list of players that have and/or are rumored to come in for a visit for the Browns.


RB Cory Boyd, South Carolina- visit
FB Owen Schmitt, West Virginia- visit
WR Mario Urrutia, Louisville- visit
TE Brad Cottam, Tennessee- workout
OT Thaddeus Coleman, Mississippi Valley State
OL Mike Galassi, Walsh- workout & visit
OL Brandon Keith, Northern Iowa- visit
OL James Lee, South Carolina State- workout & visit
OT Eddie Pingis, Liberty- workout
OL Mike Schepp, Akron- workout
OG Donald Thomas, Connecticut- visit

OLB Quentin Groves, Auburn- visit
OLB Curtis Johnson, Clark-Atlanta- workout
ILB Beau Bell UNLV- visit
ILB Stanford Keglar, Purdue- visit
ILB Bryan Kehl, BYU- visit
ILB Joey Larocque, Oregon State- workout
ILB Jared Mayo, Tennessee- visit
CB Tyvon Branch, Connecticut- visit
CB Reggie Corner, Akron- workout
CB Charles Godfrey, Iowa- workout & visit
*CB Antwaun Molden, Eastern Kentucky- workout & visit
CB Darnell Terrell, Missouri- workout & visit
S Josh Barrett Arizona State- visit
S Tyrell Johnson, Arkansas State- visit

jriles0522
04-01-2008, 01:07 PM
As reported previously on the Orange and Brown Report, the Cleveland organization has continued scouting potential Day One draft picks into the month of April, a sign that the organization may be eyeing getting back into the first three rounds of the draft. But something even bigger may be in the works.

Phil Savage has reportedly been in talks regarding a multi-team deal which would remake the face of the Cleveland Browns in short order, positioning the team to run the gauntlet in 2008 at the cost of depth at the quarterback position.

Reports out of Minnesota suggest that the team is considering swapping quarterback Derek Anderson to the Vikings in a complex deal that would involve at least one other club, namely the San Diego Chargers. In return for Anderson, RB Jamal Lewis, a 2009 first day pick, and an unnamed defensive player, the Browns would receive OT Bryant McKinnie, QB Kelly Holcomb, MLB Matt Wilhelm, and RB Michael Turner.

It is important to note that these reports are not confirmed by either club, and multi-team deals are notoriously difficult to pull off in these days of the salary cap.

Last season, the Browns were fortunate with their injury situation, but suffered with porous run defense. The deal, if consummated, would install Brady Quinn as the team's quarterback, with Holcomb as a backup, shore up the middle of the linebacker corps and provide the team with truly terrifying depth at offensive tackle.

One key aspect of the trade which may be weighing on the minds of Browns executives is its crowd-pleasing nature. "We think we've worked in every single player that's been obsessed about in the OBR's online forums over the last four years", a source close to the deal told the Orange and Brown Report. The source continues to say that the team hopes, by landing these players, "to move forward into reading a brand new generation of insane trade threads". It's an intriguing prospect: for a team which has seen its season ticket waiting list turn into unsold seats in recent years

BrownsTown
04-01-2008, 02:19 PM
Seeing as Turner is no longer on the Chargers anymore, I have to believe that report is false.

JSimmsy21
04-01-2008, 10:20 PM
As reported previously on the Orange and Brown Report, the Cleveland organization has continued scouting potential Day One draft picks into the month of April, a sign that the organization may be eyeing getting back into the first three rounds of the draft. But something even bigger may be in the works.

Phil Savage has reportedly been in talks regarding a multi-team deal which would remake the face of the Cleveland Browns in short order, positioning the team to run the gauntlet in 2008 at the cost of depth at the quarterback position.

Reports out of Minnesota suggest that the team is considering swapping quarterback Derek Anderson to the Vikings in a complex deal that would involve at least one other club, namely the San Diego Chargers. In return for Anderson, RB Jamal Lewis, a 2009 first day pick, and an unnamed defensive player, the Browns would receive OT Bryant McKinnie, QB Kelly Holcomb, MLB Matt Wilhelm, and RB Michael Turner.

It is important to note that these reports are not confirmed by either club, and multi-team deals are notoriously difficult to pull off in these days of the salary cap.

Last season, the Browns were fortunate with their injury situation, but suffered with porous run defense. The deal, if consummated, would install Brady Quinn as the team's quarterback, with Holcomb as a backup, shore up the middle of the linebacker corps and provide the team with truly terrifying depth at offensive tackle.

One key aspect of the trade which may be weighing on the minds of Browns executives is its crowd-pleasing nature. "We think we've worked in every single player that's been obsessed about in the OBR's online forums over the last four years", a source close to the deal told the Orange and Brown Report. The source continues to say that the team hopes, by landing these players, "to move forward into reading a brand new generation of insane trade threads". It's an intriguing prospect: for a team which has seen its season ticket waiting list turn into unsold seats in recent years

APRIL FOOLS! Yes, this story was part of our yearly April first idiocy. We're well aware that Michael Turner is no longer with the Falcons and that Kelly Holcomb isn't with the Vikings. That, plus the letters that start each paragraph, are hints that we were just messin' with ya'll. Hope you aren't disappointed that this trade isn't real ;-)

thats why i didnt post that. there was no way that could be true.

keylime_5
04-03-2008, 08:34 AM
and what might be most amazing is that bentley is not in the mix in terms of overall depth. this doesn't seem to bode well for sowells either. how many OLs do we normally carry during the regular season?

I do believe we usually keep 9 linemen. Since we have so much versatility I think we'll keep Thomas, Steinbach, Fraley, Shaffer, Tucker, Hadnot, McKinney, Friedman, and one more guy who is probably a tackle and not a guard/center. Sowells will have to earn his spot this year, he can be a right tackle as well as a guard.

barry
04-04-2008, 01:49 AM
I do believe we usually keep 9 linemen. Since we have so much versatility I think we'll keep Thomas, Steinbach, Fraley, Shaffer, Tucker, Hadnot, McKinney, Friedman, and one more guy who is probably a tackle and not a guard/center. Sowells will have to earn his spot this year, he can be a right tackle as well as a guard.

courtesy of: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/roster.php?sort=2

Hadnot, Rex OL 6-2 325 01/28/1982

57 Bentley, L OL 6-2 309 11/07/1979

70 Dorsey, N OL 6-7 335 09/09/1983
66 Fraley, H OL 6-2 315 09/21/1977
62 Friedman, L OL 6-3 295 08/13/1976
63 Louis, C OL 6-8 300 08/24/1984
68 McKinney, S OL 6-3 315 06/12/1979
50 Philip, M OL 6-1 307 02/03/1982
77 Shaffer, K OL 6-5 325 03/02/1980
61 Sowells, I OL 6-3 325 05/04/1982
65 Steinbach, E OL 6-6 295 04/04/1980
73 Thomas, Joe OL 6-6 315 12/04/1984
72 Tucker, Ryan OL 6-6 320 06/12/1975

OK, bentley started on the DL, IIRC mckinney got hurt and went to the DL.

philip & lewis i don't remember. were either on the taxi/practice squad?

still hard to tell exactly how many OL's we carry.

tucker is 33, fraley 31. i could see hadnot replacing one of these two in 2009.

JSimmsy21
04-04-2008, 10:31 AM
i firmly believe our OL depth chart will look like this next year

LT- J.Thomas/K.Shaffer
LG- E.Steinbach/L.Friedman
C- H.Fraley/S.McKinney
RG- R.Hadnot/S.McKinney/R.Tucker
RT- K.Shaffer/R.Tucker

Sowells might compete for a backup role at G or T. but he's really gotta step it up this year.

barry
04-04-2008, 03:10 PM
i firmly believe our OL depth chart will look like this next year

LT- J.Thomas/K.Shaffer
LG- E.Steinbach/L.Friedman
C- H.Fraley/S.McKinney
RG- R.Hadnot/S.McKinney/R.Tucker
RT- K.Shaffer/R.Tucker

Sowells might compete for a backup role at G or T. but he's really gotta step it up this year.

while hadnot may start, i think he & tucker are the major swingmen if people get hurt. if fraley goes down, i think hadnot makes more sense as the backup C over mckinney - the center also has to call out line protection, which hadnot will have had to do already in spot duty as center.

what makes life complicated is what happens when a OT goes down. for the sake of line cohesion, i'd leave shaffer on the right side and move steinbach over in a pinch for thomas, & move hadnot to LG.

keylime_5
04-04-2008, 03:16 PM
I dont think Tucker won't start unless he gets hurt at some point. Hadnot and McKinney will give Ryan all he can handle though in terms of competition, they're both young starting quality guards. Tucker played very well at guard towards the end of last season which is why he should keep his job.

JSimmsy21
04-04-2008, 06:23 PM
I dont think Tucker won't start unless he gets hurt at some point. Hadnot and McKinney will give Ryan all he can handle though in terms of competition, they're both young starting quality guards. Tucker played very well at guard towards the end of last season which is why he should keep his job.

i completely agree. but here's a question. when McKinney went down, who else was going to play guard? Arguably, Tucker was the best player on the OL that wasn't starting. Friedman is really only an emergency player(his main purpose is the wedge on specials) and he mainly only plays the LG spot. Sowells had(and still has) yet to prove he can play at a high level.

the running game really picked up when Tucker took over at RG. but was that b/c he's that much better than Mckinney or b/c defenses started play the pass more b/c of DA? In classic Romeo style, it's Tucker's job to lose, i just really think that Hadnot will outplay him considerably. i dont think McKinney will be in the equation at all, i never thought he was that good. he also had to many penalties for my liking.

keylime_5
04-04-2008, 07:38 PM
Well last year Tucker was gonna start at right guard until the steroid suspension at which point the job went to McKinney by default until he went on the I.R. I think Tucker has the job until he gets hurt or suspended b/c I don't think he's gonna play his way out of the starting lineup. Tucker is a leader on the field too and a good pass blocker for a right guard too to boot.

DawgBone
04-05-2008, 03:17 PM
In your opinions should we draft a RB this year or is everyone satisfied with Jerome Harrison and Wright?

I personally want to draft a large back this year at some point. I really like Jerome Harrison and want him to be our change of pace and third down back, but he needs to work on his blocking this offseason. Wright is good depth, but I feel he isnt in our future plans.

RoyHall#1
04-05-2008, 03:22 PM
I'm against it. A back in the 4th round or later is not going to be any better than Wright or Harrison IMO. It can wait til next year.

DawgBone
04-05-2008, 04:33 PM
Its smart to draft one this year as opposed to next year because of the abnormal depth at the RB position in the draft. This means the overall available talent in later rounds might be equal to earlier rounds in next years draft.

EX: a player going in RD4 this year might go in RD2-3 next year.

If Jamal Lewis gets hurt there isnt a RB on the roster that can carry the load and that scares me. The speed RB's we have (Harrison and Wright) dont allways fair well in later December and playoff time when its cold. Cleveland is a power running team and allways has been due to the climate and I think we need a guy that can run between the tackles 15 times in a game if he has to. Not to mention our team relied heavily on the 3rd down passing game which requires a back that can block. i dont think harrison or Wright are par on that level.

I would love to have Matt Forte, but dont think he will be there in RD4. Im not trying to say draft one in RD4 though. I actually prefer a LB or CB in that slot. The good news is that our OL is good and deep which traditionally allows a team to get by with a lesser talented RB and tends to hide their weaknesses.

IMO unless we draft one in RD4 we wont draft one at all. Last year we carried 3 RB's on the roster and i cant see wasting a later round pick on a RB unless were sure he will make the team somehow. Many teams use there #3 RB on special teams in the return game but because we dont need to do that it eliminates the value of having 3 RB's to an extent. i guess in conclusion if we draft a RB in 2008 it would have to be a more physical styled RB early in the draft that has the capability of playing. We will not waste a pick on a change of pace back to be 4rth string because Romeo doesnt like to play rookies.

kalbears13
04-05-2008, 09:07 PM
Its smart to draft one this year as opposed to next year because of the abnormal depth at the RB position in the draft. This means the overall available talent in later rounds might be equal to earlier rounds in next years draft.

EX: a player going in RD4 this year might go in RD2-3 next year.

If Jamal Lewis gets hurt there isnt a RB on the roster that can carry the load and that scares me. The speed RB's we have (Harrison and Wright) dont allways fair well in later December and playoff time when its cold. Cleveland is a power running team and allways has been due to the climate and I think we need a guy that can run between the tackles 15 times in a game if he has to. Not to mention our team relied heavily on the 3rd down passing game which requires a back that can block. i dont think harrison or Wright are par on that level.

I would love to have Matt Forte, but dont think he will be there in RD4. Im not trying to say draft one in RD4 though. I actually prefer a LB or CB in that slot. The good news is that our OL is good and deep which traditionally allows a team to get by with a lesser talented RB and tends to hide their weaknesses.

IMO unless we draft one in RD4 we wont draft one at all. Last year we carried 3 RB's on the roster and i cant see wasting a later round pick on a RB unless were sure he will make the team somehow. Many teams use there #3 RB on special teams in the return game but because we dont need to do that it eliminates the value of having 3 RB's to an extent. i guess in conclusion if we draft a RB in 2008 it would have to be a more physical styled RB early in the draft that has the capability of playing. We will not waste a pick on a change of pace back to be 4rth string because Romeo doesnt like to play rookies.

If Lewis gets hurt then we just give Vickers a larger role.

barry
04-06-2008, 02:53 AM
Its smart to draft one this year as opposed to next year because of the abnormal depth at the RB position in the draft. This means the overall available talent in later rounds might be equal to earlier rounds in next years draft.

EX: a player going in RD4 this year might go in RD2-3 next year.


that's a good point. lots of good OLs this year also, which would help us if we had 1st & 2nd round picks since other players would slide.


If Jamal Lewis gets hurt there isnt a RB on the roster that can carry the load and that scares me. The speed RB's we have (Harrison and Wright) dont allways fair well in later December and playoff time when its cold.


i wouldn't classify them as speed backs since neither can run a 4.6 40; they'll get run down by some LBs, not to mention most DBs.

jason wright is the kind of guy you'd want your sister to meet. he played high school ball out here (i live in s. cal.) before he went to NU. extremely high character kinda guy - and smart (pre-med) - which probably helped when carthon was still here with his overly complex offensive scheme.

i got to see the WSU offense when harrison played. he's a system back. he ran for big yards in the *PAC-10* for cryin' out loud. outside of foster at UCLA, i can't think of a single non-USC RB that's done anything in the NFL.


Cleveland is a power running team and allways has been due to the climate and I think we need a guy that can run between the tackles 15 times in a game if he has to. Not to mention our team relied heavily on the 3rd down passing game which requires a back that can block. i dont think harrison or Wright are par on that level.


wright is the still the better blocker.


I would love to have Matt Forte, but dont think he will be there in RD4. Im not trying to say draft one in RD4 though. I actually prefer a LB or CB in that slot. The good news is that our OL is good and deep which traditionally allows a team to get by with a lesser talented RB and tends to hide their weaknesses.


i like forte but he's not a secret anymore.


IMO unless we draft one in RD4 we wont draft one at all. Last year we carried 3 RB's on the roster and i cant see wasting a later round pick on a RB unless were sure he will make the team somehow. Many teams use there #3 RB on special teams in the return game but because we dont need to do that it eliminates the value of having 3 RB's to an extent. i guess in conclusion if we draft a RB in 2008 it would have to be a more physical styled RB early in the draft that has the capability of playing. We will not waste a pick on a change of pace back to be 4rth string because Romeo doesnt like to play rookies.

with our offense, we should be able to attract a decent FA RB if that turns out to be the best option available.

DawgBone
04-06-2008, 11:24 AM
"i got to see the WSU offense when harrison played. he's a system back. he ran for big yards in the *PAC-10* for cryin' out loud. outside of foster at UCLA, i can't think of a single non-USC RB that's done anything in the NFL."

If your refering to Pac10 RB's? Then there is Steven Jackson and Lynch etc...but Im not sure if thats the point you were trying to make?

If Lewis goes down and it is December, we traditionally run the ball more (just like 2007). Cold weather is difficult to maximize speed because you get stiff so the power run game has allways been what we rely on. harrison and Wright are and will not be great factors when that time comes.

Someone mentioned Vickers and he did play some TB at Colorado, but it doesnt translate to the pros IMO. He was around 235 in college hes now bulked to around 250 so im sure hes lost alittle.

We looked at Owen Schmitt in the draft. If we took him in Rd4 or 5 then it might mean that Vickers could be the power back-up to Lewis I guess. And like another poster mentioned Schmitt can be a special teams force and down the line a #3 TE maybe in the mold of Frank Wycheck in the late 1990's.

JSimmsy21
04-06-2008, 08:07 PM
my favorite back in this draft is Jonathan Stewart. Guy ran a 4.48 at 235 and turf toe. then followed closely by forte who just a beast. BUT, chances are more than likely that we have less than a zero shot at either.

also, based on last year at this time, savage said repeadily that the offense needed fixed, mostly the OL. so many if not everybody thought that savage wouldnt throw all that money at JT after we signed Steinbach to a huge deal, but he did. sooo, i'm inclined to say that most if not all of our picks will go towards the front seven.

with that said, as far as RB goes, how bout chance Chauncey Washington? late rnd flier, should last till the last rnds or FA. just a thought. heres what NFLDC has to say about him.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/rb/chaunceywashington.html

kalbears13
04-06-2008, 08:47 PM
"i got to see the WSU offense when harrison played. he's a system back. he ran for big yards in the *PAC-10* for cryin' out loud. outside of foster at UCLA, i can't think of a single non-USC RB that's done anything in the NFL."

If your refering to Pac10 RB's? Then there is Steven Jackson and Lynch etc...but Im not sure if thats the point you were trying to make?

If Lewis goes down and it is December, we traditionally run the ball more (just like 2007). Cold weather is difficult to maximize speed because you get stiff so the power run game has allways been what we rely on. harrison and Wright are and will not be great factors when that time comes.

Someone mentioned Vickers and he did play some TB at Colorado, but it doesnt translate to the pros IMO. He was around 235 in college hes now bulked to around 250 so im sure hes lost alittle.

We looked at Owen Schmitt in the draft. If we took him in Rd4 or 5 then it might mean that Vickers could be the power back-up to Lewis I guess. And like another poster mentioned Schmitt can be a special teams force and down the line a #3 TE maybe in the mold of Frank Wycheck in the late 1990's.

I'm not saying Vickers should carry the load but he should be able to take some of the load off Wright and Harrison if Lewis were to get hurt.

barry
04-07-2008, 04:19 PM
"i got to see the WSU offense when harrison played. he's a system back. he ran for big yards in the *PAC-10* for cryin' out loud. outside of foster at UCLA, i can't think of a single non-USC RB that's done anything in the NFL."

If your refering to Pac10 RB's? Then there is Steven Jackson and Lynch etc...but Im not sure if thats the point you were trying to make?


i'll give you jackson, but he might as well be invisible playing for the rams. but i stand by the point that historically the PAC-10 (outside of USC) does not produce a lot of RBs that do well in the NFL compared to other BCS conferences; a lot of PAC-10 players have been successful in the NFL, just not a lot of RBs. but this could reflect the offensive systems you tend to see in the PAC-10.




If Lewis goes down and it is December, we traditionally run the ball more (just like 2007). Cold weather is difficult to maximize speed because you get stiff so the power run game has allways been what we rely on. harrison and Wright are and will not be great factors when that time comes.

Someone mentioned Vickers and he did play some TB at Colorado, but it doesnt translate to the pros IMO. He was around 235 in college hes now bulked to around 250 so im sure hes lost alittle.


don't forget we can always use him for the FB option pass! <not>


We looked at Owen Schmitt in the draft. If we took him in Rd4 or 5 then it might mean that Vickers could be the power back-up to Lewis I guess. And like another poster mentioned Schmitt can be a special teams force and down the line a #3 TE maybe in the mold of Frank Wycheck in the late 1990's.

JSimmsy21
04-10-2008, 09:40 PM
wow, this board has been dead for like a week. damn savage and not having a first rounder!!!

barry
04-10-2008, 11:11 PM
only because not much else is going on:

- i noticed that the pats signed OLB hobson away from the jets. hobson is good enough to help the pats, but for whatever reason, never was on our radar.

- manningham admits he smoked dope in college. if he drops to the 4th round, should we take him?

DawgBone
04-11-2008, 11:28 AM
He wont fall to round 4 no matter what he admitted to. If teams have called about Packman, then they dont care half as much about a pot smoker. And I dont think this is a Chris Henry case.

JSimmsy21
04-11-2008, 05:39 PM
He wont fall to round 4 no matter what he admitted to. If teams have called about Packman, then they dont care half as much about a pot smoker. And I dont think this is a Chris Henry case.

i agree. although manningham's draft stock started to fall when he ran his forty, he got even worse. the biggest thing that hurt him is that fact that he lied about doing pot during the interview process at the combine.

Manningham's shot at going in the first are gone entirely. going top of the second are probably gone too. but he'll be off the board between late second and the third i'm sure. he's got great hands and runs good routes, and he has the "game speed." his baggage really hurt him tho.

JSimmsy21
04-11-2008, 11:12 PM
savage said in the plain dealer or some other paper or something(where ever i read it, i forget) that he will not trade any player currently on the browns roster to acquire a higher pick in this years draft. he did say, however, that if a player were to fall that they really liked, then it would be trading away future picks.

DawgBone
04-12-2008, 03:36 PM
savage said in the plain dealer or some other paper or something(where ever i read it, i forget) that he will not trade any player currently on the browns roster to acquire a higher pick in this years draft. he did say, however, that if a player were to fall that they really liked, then it would be trading away future picks.

Savage said he would take Ngata if he fell to pick #12 2 years ago. He was there but we didnt select him......

Savage also said that after the Eagles were rumored the night before FA to sign Bentley that we had little interest in him. We ended up out bidding them.

He said at the begining of FA this year that we wouldnt make a big splash. We actually made one of the biggest in FA history.

He said there is no chance DA gets traded, but why did he delay the payments until after the draft which never happens in a FA contract?

HINT: dont believe Phil for a second.

keylime_5
04-12-2008, 03:45 PM
He never tips his hand and always sends out smokescreens, yes, but I don't think he is gonna trade DA at the draft b/c he won't get a good enough deal too. Hypothetically if we were offered say a top ten pick he would accept it (i'm sure we'd trade him for less than that of course), but I really doubt we'll be offered anything more than a 2nd or late 1st for DA if anything. And not to get sidetracked but what's to say we wouldn't have taken Ngata if we didn't swap with Baltimore in 2006? Sure we wanted Wimbley more, but with Ngata available there could've been a chance we wouldn't have passed on him...I guess we'll never know but by moving down for just an extra 7th rounder which is almost nothing it shows that we really wanted KWimbley even if we had Ngata rated higher. Baltimore certainly thought we'd take him I guess.

DawgBone
04-13-2008, 04:52 PM
He never tips his hand and always sends out smokescreens, yes, but I don't think he is gonna trade DA at the draft b/c he won't get a good enough deal too. Hypothetically if we were offered say a top ten pick he would accept it (i'm sure we'd trade him for less than that of course), but I really doubt we'll be offered anything more than a 2nd or late 1st for DA if anything. And not to get sidetracked but what's to say we wouldn't have taken Ngata if we didn't swap with Baltimore in 2006? Sure we wanted Wimbley more, but with Ngata available there could've been a chance we wouldn't have passed on him...I guess we'll never know but by moving down for just an extra 7th rounder which is almost nothing it shows that we really wanted KWimbley even if we had Ngata rated higher. Baltimore certainly thought we'd take him I guess.

I think theres about a %5 chance that DA gets traded on draft day. I just mentioned it because its an odd situation. DA can have more of an impact on this team that any pick outside of the top 5-10 IMO.

DawgBone
04-13-2008, 05:14 PM
Im the biggest Savage supporter there is, but this is just bad.....


BUTCH PLAYERS BYE-BYE

Trading has been a conspicuous tool in a turnover that leaves the Browns with just six players acquired by former Head Coach Butch Davis.

Savage has dealt five key Davis draft picks — first-rounders Gerard Warren and Faine, second-rounder André Davis, third-rounder Chris Crocker and fourth-rounder Luke McCown — all still in the league.

In return, respectively, Savage has received:

• Quarterback Trent Dilfer, who was 4-7 before handing off to Charlie Frye.

• Jackson, who cost the team Faine, deemed last month by the Bucs to be worth a $37.5 million contract.

• A 2006 Round 5 pick, used for cornerback DeMario Minter, who was cut Sept. 1.

• A 2006 Round 4 pick, used on guard Isaac Sowells, who has appeared in one game in two years.

• A 2005 Round 6 pick, used on lineman Andrew Hoffman, cut Sept. 1.

The Faine trade involved rotten luck. Losing him became a big deal when free agent LeCharles Bentley went down less than three months later.

Savage argues that the Crocker trade still might pan out, if Sowells fills in at guard this year or next. However, this looks more like a wrong guess in a draft. Players selected shortly after Sowells in the '06 draft include:

• Wideout Brandon Marshall, who gave the Broncos 1,325 receiving yards in 2007.

• Defensive lineman Barry Cofield, a Cleveland native who started on the defensive line for the Super Bowl Giants.

• Pass rusher Elvis Dumervil, who had 12 1/2 sacks for the Broncos last year.

• Guard Rob Sims, an Ohio State guy who started 16 games for a Seahawks playoff team in '07.

• Guard-tackle Willie Colon, who took Pittsburgh's starting right tackle job from Max Starks last year.


These moves really hurt our team in what we COULD have had compared to what we DID get.

Cribbs>Hester
04-13-2008, 05:54 PM
Those moves didn't hurt us in the least bit.

WE TRADED GARBAGE FOR DRAFT PICKS

At least Savage gave us a chance with the picks. They could have been good players. We knew those other players we nothing. He at least gave us a chance to find a good player and that is something Butch Davis and his players never gave us.

Not a single one of those players would be anything more than a third stringer on our team.

You're doing way too many drugs if you think keep anyone of those players would make us a better team right now. It was more about changing the scenry and attitude in the locker room, and giving this organization a sense of effort to change than about finding super star players in exchange for those players. Honestly, wtf, McCown, Warren, Crocker, Davis are you kidding me? You couldn't get anything better than Savage got for them if you were dealing with Butch Davis himself.

keylime_5
04-13-2008, 07:30 PM
Faine, Crocker, Warren, Davis, McCown are all not good players. Faine is the only one who should be starting, but he is a west coast type center only pretty much and would get manhandled even more if he stayed in the AFC North. Our offensive line is one of the 5 best in the league, maybe 3 best, without Faine. Davis is worthless to us, he would be an expensive #4 WR and a backup KR/PR to the far superior Joshua Cribbs. Warren is a backup overweight pass rushing DT who is not a very good pass rusher, maybe good for 2 or 3 sacks if he played every snap and bad against the run. McCown is a 4th or 5th string QB on Tampa Bay and will get cut by September. The fact that we traded Chris Crocker - an average at best safety who is really just below average - for a fourth round pick was a steal. It doesn't matter that Sowells hasn't worked out, but we took that chance and it could've been better off, the draft is hit or miss.

JSimmsy21
04-14-2008, 09:44 AM
agreed. i think cribbs>hester said it perfect. "we traded garbage for draft picks." and to say that we missed out on a player from a super bowl team and someone that replaced the steelers starting RT is hindsight. no one knew. the only reason dumervil got a shot at playing was b/c everyone else got hurt on their line. they still have a crap defense last year. the steelers OL is still a mess. Rob sims has been extremely inconsistent for Seattle. thats why they signed Whale.

true, savage has screwed up some second day draft picks. pretty much all of them except for vickers, mcdonald, and williams. he did, however, draft starters in the first two rounds of all three of his drafts so far. i'd MUCH rather him screw up second day picks than those first and second rounders.

our locker room presence sucked, those players were extremely unmotivated, and not in shape/always hurt. savage did us a favor by getting rid of all those players and starting over with his, and Romeo's, own players.

keylime_5
04-15-2008, 08:30 AM
it's kinda pointless to talk about who we missed on. We are dumb for missing on Tom Brady in 2000 when we took Spergon Wynn, hit or miss is the name of the game. Just having more picks gives the possibility of drafting a hit a higher percentage.

In other words, complaining about trading away Chris Crocker and complaining about how we used the pick we got for him are mutually exclusive events. We got Crocker for a 4th round pick, steal. Us not using that fourth rounder as well as we could've has nothing to do with Chris really. If anything think about this: we would've taken Sowells with the round 4 pick we used on WIlliams b/c he was taken first remember, so no Crocker trade no Williams. Williams isn't far off from being as valuable as Crocker is. Not a star or maybe not even a starter, but not a bad trade.

DawgBone
04-15-2008, 05:04 PM
it's kinda pointless to talk about who we missed on. We are dumb for missing on Tom Brady in 2000 when we took Spergon Wynn, hit or miss is the name of the game. Just having more picks gives the possibility of drafting a hit a higher percentage.

In other words, complaining about trading away Chris Crocker and complaining about how we used the pick we got for him are mutually exclusive events. We got Crocker for a 4th round pick, steal. Us not using that fourth rounder as well as we could've has nothing to do with Chris really. If anything think about this: we would've taken Sowells with the round 4 pick we used on WIlliams b/c he was taken first remember, so no Crocker trade no Williams. Williams isn't far off from being as valuable as Crocker is. Not a star or maybe not even a starter, but not a bad trade.

Keylime I find it funny. You are the first to praise a good job and the first to down play a bad one. Im being fair. Savage has made some mistakes and I was simply pointing out some of them. I would much rather have Chris Crocker as our main back-up safety then Isaac Sowells as a practice squad guard.

I think everyone of us would prefer Andre Davis back compared to Demario Minter.

Davis and Crocker would have really helped this team last year, enstead we had Sowells and Minter who was cut.

I could care less about these trades overall because Im more tham pleased with how our current team is, but quit acting like Savage has made all the right calls.

jriles0522
04-16-2008, 01:14 PM
Keylime I find it funny. You are the first to praise a good job and the first to down play a bad one. Im being fair. Savage has made some mistakes and I was simply pointing out some of them. I would much rather have Chris Crocker as our main back-up safety then Isaac Sowells as a practice squad guard.

I think everyone of us would prefer Andre Davis back compared to Demario Minter.

Davis and Crocker would have really helped this team last year, enstead we had Sowells and Minter who was cut.

I could care less about these trades overall because Im more tham pleased with how our current team is, but quit acting like Savage has made all the right calls.

I agree with keylime. Savage wasn't deciding between crocker and sowells, nor was he deciding between andre davis and minter. No one jumped on him for trading either one of those two guys, whose value to our team at the time was essentially zero.

If you are going to criticize him, you do so on the basis that he did not select players that are producing now. The moves to get the picks are absolutely separate, and they were good moves at the time.

RoyHall#1
04-16-2008, 02:09 PM
So outside of the AFC North, only 2 of the 10 teams we play had a losing season last year.

keylime_5
04-16-2008, 10:37 PM
It's one thing to have a problem with trading Chris Crocker for a 4th round pick. That was brilliant considering Crocker is not worth a 4th rounder by any stretch. The fact that we didn't capitalize on that 4th round pick is completely mutually exclusive. It would be like trading Braylon Edwards for a 7th round pick. Stupid move. But by some dumb luck say we draft an allpro with that pick. Great trade sure, but the odds of that happening are remote. You take your chances and Phil did a great thing by getting a 4th round pick which is a very high chance at a decent player. It just didn't happen.

In other words, if we trade say Jerome Harrison for a 1st round pick and Harrison never does anything in his whole career, and then that first round pick ends up being a complete bust, does that make it a bad trade? Heck no, it was a great trade even if the pick fails b/c there was a high chance of it working. We'd have made the Chris Crocker trade ten times out of ten if we could do it over. The draft pick would've been different if we could have done it over. Mutually exclusive, see what I mean?

DawgBone
04-16-2008, 10:52 PM
We lost good depth and a great special teams player who was still young in Chris Crocker. Depth that we needed last year. And you say its not a big deal because we got a 4rth round pick.

So your willing to trade a cheap, not yet in their prime, special teams ace that could fill in on deffense if needed safety for a draft pick that wont even make the team this year and has never even stepped on the field for the most part?

However you try to defend Savage you cant. He made a mistake however you cut the bread.

The guy isnt perfect thats all im saying so stop licking the peanut butter off his balls.

kalbears13
04-17-2008, 12:12 AM
The guy isnt perfect thats all im saying so stop licking the peanut butter off his balls.

You wonder why people are always arguing and getting mad at you. You provoke people way too much.

jriles0522
04-17-2008, 09:21 AM
We lost good depth and a great special teams player who was still young in Chris Crocker. Depth that we needed last year. And you say its not a big deal because we got a 4rth round pick.

So your willing to trade a cheap, not yet in their prime, special teams ace that could fill in on deffense if needed safety for a draft pick that wont even make the team this year and has never even stepped on the field for the most part?

However you try to defend Savage you cant. He made a mistake however you cut the bread.

The guy isnt perfect thats all im saying so stop licking the peanut butter off his balls.

special teams ace not worth a fourth round pick?

we found a special teams ace of the street corner, his name is nick sorensen, those guys are not hard to come by. big deal crocker could be a 3rd or 4th string safety.

sounds like you're the one with the peanut butter

DawgBone
04-17-2008, 10:29 AM
do you need some jelly? Geshhhh, if they werent hard to come by we wouldnt have re-signed 2 of them this offseason as quickly as we could.

keylime_5
04-17-2008, 12:29 PM
Trading Chris for a 4th round pick was not the mistake. The mistake was taking Sowells with that pick. We got Leon Williams anyways with our 2nd 4th round pick. If we didn't trade Crocker we would've had just Sowells, instead we got Leon and Sowells. And if you look at it from that perspective Leon is more valuable to our team right now than Crocker would be.