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PickedOffTwice
10-08-2008, 05:10 AM
I think people need to start looking at HOW DA completes his passes, starting last season. Most of the times he makes a borderline terrible throw and Edwards or Winslow bail him out with a circus catch. The sheer amount of circus catches these two have put up last season is beyond imagination. One could have seen already last season, that he isn't the "real deal".....
The kid has an awesome arm and throws frozen ropes over 35 or more yards. The thing he lacks is accuracy and it begins to show, now that the receiving corps is depleted. Guys like steptoe will not draw any coverages, because defenses know that he won't come down with one of DAs throws that only elite receivers can catch.....

He is a good QB and i always love Big Armed QBs, but one has to question if DAs accuracy is on the NFL level......

JSimmsy21
10-09-2008, 04:14 PM
I think people need to start looking at HOW DA completes his passes, starting last season. Most of the times he makes a borderline terrible throw and Edwards or Winslow bail him out with a circus catch. The sheer amount of circus catches these two have put up last season is beyond imagination. One could have seen already last season, that he isn't the "real deal".....
The kid has an awesome arm and throws frozen ropes over 35 or more yards. The thing he lacks is accuracy and it begins to show, now that the receiving corps is depleted. Guys like steptoe will not draw any coverages, because defenses know that he won't come down with one of DAs throws that only elite receivers can catch.....

He is a good QB and i always love Big Armed QBs, but one has to question if DAs accuracy is on the NFL level......

i've been saying that about DA's accuracy for some time now. but i was on the optimistic end of it untill recently. my beleif before about DA's poor second half of last year was that D's started to focus on him, and that was reason the JLew exploded in the later part of the season.

CherryGarcia510
10-10-2008, 07:35 PM
If DA plays like garbage on national tv monday during the 1st half, do you guys think Romeo has the balls to throw in Brady to start the 3rd?

keylime_5
10-11-2008, 09:12 PM
heck yes, he almost did it two weeks ago after DA looked awful against Cincinnati. DA is on thin ice right now, our offense is last in the league.

Iamcanadian
10-12-2008, 10:16 PM
Great to see everyone picking on DA. Face it the whole offense has under performed this year. I think the early success last year went to their heads and they weren't ready mentally or physically when the season started.
I think the team is disappointed in what they have seen of Quinn in practice and if DA fails, we could be looking for a starting QB all over again and face it, they aren't usually productive for about 3 or 4 years. So if DA is indeed over the hill, we could be looking at another 3 or 4 years to get back to 10 wins.
We should all be praying that DA returns to form or we could be practically back to square one as a team Not a pretty picture IMO.

BackwoodsBoy
10-13-2008, 03:31 PM
Are your butts lubed and ready for tonight? Mines all ready to go and I'll assume the position just before kickoff.

As ugly as things got against the most overrated team in the NFL(Dallas) how ugly to things get tonight on prime time in front of the whole country?

Heres to next year:

Sign:
Igor Olshansky DE
Lance Moore WR

Draft:
1. Brian Orakpo DE/OLB Texas
2. Charles Scott RB LSU
*trade up*3. Xavier Fulton OT Illinois
6. Clay Matthews ULB USC

Brady Quinn provides better QB play
Scott and Harrison keep Lewis fresh
Stallworth healthy
Moore is better than Steptoe
Rucker ready to contribute
Hadnot moves back to Center
Tucker move back into the starting RG spot
Kevin Shaffer stays at RT while Fulton develops a year or two.
=better running attack & air attack = better offense = keeps out UNDERRATED defense off the field more

Igor Olshansky replaced Robaire(Achilles+Age+320=Slim change to be back)
Shaun Rogers do what Shaun Rogers do
Corey Smith a year under his belt in the 34
Wimbley, Hall and Rak much younger fresh and athletic legs and improve pass rush greatly
Bell will finally contribue and Jackson, Williams have played well minus some coverage flaws
Wright, Pool, Jones, McDonald are all playing well considering out pathetic pass rush and poor coaching(15 yard cushions)

All of this adds up to one thing...Playoffs

Mr. Stiller
10-13-2008, 03:43 PM
How many picks do you guys have in this draft?

All but your 3rd rounder?

I'm looking at the browns and honestly you have a good team.. atleast the structure of a good team..

And I might make some suggestions. If you're interested.

keylime_5
10-13-2008, 03:45 PM
can't remember exactly but I know we traded the third and at least another 2nd day pick (5th rounder if i'm not mistaken). We have a 1st and 2nd though and that's what's important (especially considering our 3rd round recent draft history).

Notredameleo
10-13-2008, 05:16 PM
IAC, are you a Lions fan or a browns fan? im confused?

BrownsTown
10-13-2008, 05:42 PM
IAC, are you a Lions fan or a browns fan? im confused?

He's a fan of several teams, based on the places he lived in.

^^^short version.

BackwoodsBoy
10-13-2008, 06:02 PM
How many picks do you guys have in this draft?

All but your 3rd rounder?

I'm looking at the browns and honestly you have a good team.. atleast the structure of a good team..

And I might make some suggestions. If you're interested.

Dallas has our 3rd
Philadelphia has our 5th
Miami has our 7th


so our draft picks are...

1st
2nd
4th
6th

The 5th rounder was just plain stupid to give up on Savage's part. Moving up in round 6 for a 5th rounder is bad let alone Paul Hubbard knowingly being a huge project and on top of those two bad reasons not to do so he didn't even make the team...a team that is severely lacking at reciever right now mind you. Lnace Legget out performed him for crying out loud. The 3rd and 7th rounders were okay though as Rucker was a steal and hopefully he shows it in time. Travis Daniels was severely needed depth and he's waaaay better than Cousin so Crennel needs to get his old timer loving ego incheck and get Daniels on the field more than Cousin.


These stupid mistakes are getting old. Illegal formations and false starts are all mental as well as not being able to get organized after a 70 yard play. It is pathetic and a reflection of leadership and decipline...decipline a head coach is suppose to enforce.

Derek Anderson still can't throw under 20 yards to save his life.
Forget firing this idiot just put a bullet in his head for his complete lack of discipline and lack of holding people accountable. This is a joke. Its been a joke for the last 3-4 years.

Lets see we're blitzing the dog piss out of them all night and it's worked all night. So we go to this rush 3 and 4 guys and they drive right down the field. Idiots!

With the offense finally waking up and the defense playing well all year we can still turn it around and make a run the playoffs. Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati aren't that great.

---Edited by j05son---
Please use the edit key if your going to post multiple times one after another, it could lead to an infraction and doing so is just courteous to the other posters.

11. Do not make posts for the sole or hidden purpose of building post counts

a) So that cute little "Count to 100" thread you wanted to start? Don't bother.
b) Almost every user here has built their post count in a meaningful way, and almost every one of them will tell you how unimportant the number is.
c) Don't create a thread simply to say you're at 500, 1000, 5000, whatever posts. Again, it's ridiculous. I don't care. No one cares.

jriles0522
10-14-2008, 12:46 AM
With the offense finally waking up and the defense playing well all year we can still turn it around and make a run the playoffs. Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati aren't that great.

Wow, you were so quick to dismiss this team, crucify DA and Crennel. Now look, one game, and so quick to jump back on the bandwagon.

Remember, never as good as you are on your best day, never as bad as on your worst.

j05son
10-14-2008, 01:09 AM
How many picks do you guys have in this draft?

All but your 3rd rounder?

I'm looking at the browns and honestly you have a good team.. atleast the structure of a good team..

And I might make some suggestions. If you're interested.

We have 1, 2, 4, 6.

We traded the third rounder to Dallas for the right to pick Rucker in the 4th round of last year.

We traded the 5th to Philly for the right to pick Hubbard in the 6th round of last year.

We traded the 7th to Miami for Daniels.

BackwoodsBoy
10-14-2008, 06:14 AM
Wow, you were so quick to dismiss this team, crucify DA and Crennel. Now look, one game, and so quick to jump back on the bandwagon.

Remember, never as good as you are on your best day, never as bad as on your worst.

Still don't like Romeo's lack of leadership, discipline, and accountability

Still don't like Derek Anderson's inaccuracy and inability to be effective under the slightest of pass rush.

I had the team going 7-9 with a loss to the Giants. Forgive me for expecting the best team in the NFL to destroy us last night. Its not like we've showed a single glimpse of hope in the previous 4 games. With the upset win lastnight I still don't see this team winning more than 8, but 8-8 is a record that could win the division(Pittsburgh's lucky breaks will end sometime and week 17 is crucial).

DiG
10-14-2008, 07:40 AM
Big win guys. I believe it was I who said a couple weeks ago that Eric Wright was one of the premiere corners in the NFL. The kid was absolutely shut down last night in addition to his pick 6. I would anticipate that the Browns would line him up across Moss next weekend?

Anyway, big ups on the win. Browns have always been my favorite AFC team so its nice when you guys come beat an NFC East rival.

keylime_5
10-14-2008, 12:27 PM
that game was righteous, almost everyone had a good night. it's fun beating the best team in the NFL on mnf at home. special shoutout to DA, Edwards, Tucker, wright, mcdonald, rogers, and the harrison, although many more played just as well as those few.

umphrey
10-14-2008, 12:46 PM
Does Stallworth do anything in your offense? I have him in FF and I haven't been able to catch any Browns games I just see his crappy stat line and injury every week.

BTW Browns are my 2nd favorite team. Go Corey Williams, Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow!

barry
10-14-2008, 01:58 PM
that game was righteous, almost everyone had a good night. it's fun beating the best team in the NFL on mnf at home. special shoutout to DA, Edwards, Tucker, wright, mcdonald, rogers, and the harrison, although many more played just as well as those few.

it'd be nice to be able to say the difference was either:

1) manning had a bad game (not looking off toomer on that pick is a rookie kind of mistake) OR

2) burress showed some rust and ran some bad routes OR (on the plus side)

3) tucker's defensive scheme changing fronts AND showing more blitzes really confused manning OR

4) not having winslow made our offense a lot less predictable - let's face it, winslow can't (or won't) block his way out of a wet paper bag - whenever there's a double TE set, everybody knows winslow is going to get the pass while the other TE blocks. heiden and dinkins combined for 6 competions, 81 yds & a TD while edwards did the heavy lifting.


while in reality it was probably some combination which included factors we had no control over. but we should look at:

- the number of offensive penalties, which i would ascribe to: coordinating the motion in chud's complicated scheme and hadnot and ryan tucker not playing together on the line. time & reps *should* address that.

- we won without winslow (and the giants won last year's SB without shockey). as talented as KW2 is, is he better off as a slot receiver?

- harrison was in for maybe 5-6 plays but touched the ball 4 times. he must have still have some serious deficiencies in picking up the blitz, but all wright does is chip a guy and wait in the flat as a dump off option.

- exactly how much credit should go to tucker's defensive scheme which held the giants to 14 points?

BrownsTown
10-14-2008, 02:28 PM
I don't think people really get how much the Browns dominated by just watching, although they looked great...looking at the stats post game I really was impressed. No punts, no turnovers, no turnovers on downs on offense, no sacks is ridiculous. They ran for 150 yards and passed for 300 more, as balanced as you can get. Whereas the defense forced 2 punts, 3 picks and a turnover on downs.

The offensive line was completely dominant.

BackwoodsBoy
10-14-2008, 08:11 PM
Ryan Tucker is easily our best offensive lineman. He was last season too. I actually read an article someone wrote about it too. Don't get it twisted just because Joe Thomas was #3 overall and a great rookie, or Eric Steinbach is a prove pro bowl guard Ryan Tucker is the real deal. I wish he wasn't so far up there in age.

Eric Wright and Brandon McDonald have played like studs all year and with Pool back healthy soon to be Sean Jones back as well I really don't get why all the Browns fans in the world and mocksters keep giving the Browns a round 1 corner. We need a NICKLE corner. You don't draft a NICKLE corner in the first. Daven Holly would actually be a huge upgrade over Terry Cusions.

Our defense has been great all year, but the offense has had them trapped on the field for far too long making it harder to get stops as the game goes on. I think Beau Bell can be the thumper we need to complete the ILB rotation. I don't like D'Qwell's physical game or even coverage skills but he knows where to be and at least slows offensive guys down(more than a lot of defenders in the league can say)

I do have 2 negative things to say though

1) Romeo Crennel is a horrible leader and disciplinarian. He needs to start holding these plays accountable for their stupidity and lack of concentration starting with practice and even games. Rex Hadnot jumps then sit him for series. If Romeo can eliminate our mental errors by being and enforcer instead of 'players coach' aka a push over we'll win a lot of games and he'll have a job for a long time.

2) Kamerion Wimbley is going to be our future situational pass rusher. He's horrible against the run. Seems he's always out of position. Not very great in coverage and not even a great pass rushing threat. Romeo wanted to harp on Alex Hall for blown assignments against the run the last few weeks, but he's easily been our best run stopping linebacker since preseason(Willie's been out). We need to draft a 34 OLB regardless as you always need at least 3 good ones and Willie is retiring so I'm just hear to warn you ahead of time the 34 OLB we do draft and Alex Hall, not Wimbley will be our starting backers and Wimbley the 3rd rusher.

Actually I don't think thats too negative as both fixable and everyone knows we need another 34 OLB so if Wimbley is the 3rd guy then we're that much better.

keylime_5
10-15-2008, 08:59 AM
wimbley is a better rusher than hall, but hall gets in on 3rd downs and gets less attention/no double teams and doesn't have to go against left tackle like wimbley. at this point we're doing the best we can with our personnel at OLB, we need another good pass rusher out there and I think that will help out kamerion. He's not shawne merriman or demarcus ware where he can get 10 sacks, he needs another great pass rusher across from him so his deficiencies can be made up for.

BackwoodsBoy
10-15-2008, 06:53 PM
wimbley is a better rusher than hall, but hall gets in on 3rd downs and gets less attention/no double teams and doesn't have to go against left tackle like wimbley. at this point we're doing the best we can with our personnel at OLB, we need another good pass rusher out there and I think that will help out kamerion. He's not shawne merriman or demarcus ware where he can get 10 sacks, he needs another great pass rusher across from him so his deficiencies can be made up for.

Say what you want, but when it comes down to it Wimbley will be the lesser player to Alex Hall in the long run. Alex Hall has developed more and faster in 1/4 of season than Wimbley has in 2 1/4 seasons.

I don't fall in love with individual players like most fans. I love the TEAM The Cleveland Browns I don't care about Braylon, Brady, Wimbley, Wright or Winslow. I want the best TEAM on the field and when we draft another OLB the best on the field will not include Wimbley as a starter.

Iamcanadian
10-16-2008, 11:03 PM
Still don't like Romeo's lack of leadership, discipline, and accountability

Still don't like Derek Anderson's inaccuracy and inability to be effective under the slightest of pass rush.

I had the team going 7-9 with a loss to the Giants. Forgive me for expecting the best team in the NFL to destroy us last night. Its not like we've showed a single glimpse of hope in the previous 4 games. With the upset win lastnight I still don't see this team winning more than 8, but 8-8 is a record that could win the division(Pittsburgh's lucky breaks will end sometime and week 17 is crucial).

Your dreaming with those win totals. Our schedule is downright scary and there aren't too many sure wins on it.
As for the Giants' win, it was a trap game for them. They though we would be a pushover and we were fired up to beat them. Games like this often lead to upsets but do not indicate that our team can maintain that kind of play. Washington and Jacksonville will be studying film on the Giants' game and won't be taking us for granted when we play them on the road in our next 2 games. They are almost sure losses. Just take a look at the rest of our schedule there are very few easy games and six of our toughest are away.

BackwoodsBoy
10-17-2008, 01:31 AM
Your dreaming with those win totals. Our schedule is downright scary and there aren't too many sure wins on it.
As for the Giants' win, it was a trap game for them. They though we would be a pushover and we were fired up to beat them. Games like this often lead to upsets but do not indicate that our team can maintain that kind of play. Washington and Jacksonville will be studying film on the Giants' game and won't be taking us for granted when we play them on the road in our next 2 games. They are almost sure losses. Just take a look at the rest of our schedule there are very few easy games and six of our toughest are away.

Its a two way street buddy. You say there are no easy wins, but then you act like its an easy win for any team playing the Browns...infact you already have Jacksonville and Washington marked down as two easy wins for them. Hypocritical and Pessimistic?

I believe we can come out of the next two weeks 1-1 leaving us a 3-4

Buffalo, Denver, Houston, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Baltimore, Philadelphia are all very winnable games and Tennessee & Indianapolis can very easily slip up just like the Giants. Obviously we won't win all 9 of those games or all 7 of the winnable games, but to think we can't win 5 of the 7 winnable games or 5 of the 9 total is a very poor attitude to have. We have a good football team we just came out of the gates slow and mental errors and lack of coaching have killed us. Chud was playing too close to the vest the first 4 games and now that the team is backed into a corner he's been forced to open up the game plan again.

BrownsTown
10-17-2008, 09:34 AM
Your dreaming with those win totals. Our schedule is downright scary and there aren't too many sure wins on it.
As for the Giants' win, it was a trap game for them. They though we would be a pushover and we were fired up to beat them. Games like this often lead to upsets but do not indicate that our team can maintain that kind of play. Washington and Jacksonville will be studying film on the Giants' game and won't be taking us for granted when we play them on the road in our next 2 games. They are almost sure losses. Just take a look at the rest of our schedule there are very few easy games and six of our toughest are away.

Washington, maybe. Jacksonville hasn't been that much better than us this yer.

Iamcanadian
10-19-2008, 12:55 AM
Washington, maybe. Jacksonville hasn't been that much better than us this yer.

It's called home field advantage. We will be underdogs in both games. You can be sure of that. If the games were in Cleveland maybe it's a different story but they are not and they will be extremely tough to win.

Iamcanadian
10-19-2008, 01:14 AM
Its a two way street buddy. You say there are no easy wins, but then you act like its an easy win for any team playing the Browns...infact you already have Jacksonville and Washington marked down as two easy wins for them. Hypocritical and Pessimistic?

I believe we can come out of the next two weeks 1-1 leaving us a 3-4

Buffalo, Denver, Houston, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Baltimore, Philadelphia are all very winnable games and Tennessee & Indianapolis can very easily slip up just like the Giants. Obviously we won't win all 9 of those games or all 7 of the winnable games, but to think we can't win 5 of the 7 winnable games or 5 of the 9 total is a very poor attitude to have. We have a good football team we just came out of the gates slow and mental errors and lack of coaching have killed us. Chud was playing too close to the vest the first 4 games and now that the team is backed into a corner he's been forced to open up the game plan again.

I love people who speak out of both sides of their mouth. Here's your forcast on the Giant's game:
"As ugly as things got against the most overrated team in the NFL(Dallas) how ugly to things get tonight on prime time in front of the whole country?"

The 1st 2 Washington and Jacksonville, will be very tough because they are on the road where it is much tougher to win.
Every game can said to be winnable but we'll only be favourites in 3 of them. All the rest will find us as underdogs.
We do have a good football team but so do our opponents in 8 of the 11 games we still have to play and our weak opponents have us marked down as a winnable game as well. Face it, we have a muderous schedule and meet 6 of our toughest remaing teams on the road including Washington, Jacksonville, Buffalo, Tennessee, Philly and Pittsburgh.
Unless you think DA suddenly found the light and became the second coming of Brady or Peyton, we are in for a long season.

kalbears13
10-19-2008, 02:01 AM
Unless you think DA suddenly found the light and became the second coming of Brady or Peyton, we are in for a long season.

Brady Quinn right?

keylime_5
10-19-2008, 06:19 PM
man, I'm shocked that we didn't try to get more yards there at the end and were content to kick it 54 yards instead of 40some. That was a combo of bad coaching decisions and bad QB decisions. Cleveland is like the anti-clutch team.

DA played really terrible on the road today, he needs to be more consistent or else Quinn will be starting before long. Not a bad 4th quarter by any means though, we almost stole that one.

PoopSandwich
10-19-2008, 06:38 PM
**** romeo crennel that ******* piece of garbage ************ i hope he ******* eats his way to death that fat piece of ******* **** and i hope someone shoots anderson on "accident" during a little hunting vacation that ****** ************...

I would throw a brick at Braylon too but hed put his hands up and drop it and it wouldnt matter if i hurt his hands because he doesnt ******* know how to use them anyways.

/endyodarant

JSimmsy21
10-19-2008, 06:52 PM
DA single handedly lost this game for us.

say was you will about Edwards dropping passes, those passes wouldnt have put points on the board, and i think only 2 of them would have been for a first down.

-2 out of 3 passes into the flats intended for lewis were off target.

-a screen to Stallworth was thrown behind him. ON A WR SCREEN!

-all the passes except 2 to winslow were WAY off or thrown to him while getting hit.

the defense is playing sound football. the numbers dont say that b/c the D is always on the field. and everyone here says that we need a corner or an OLB in the first round this year. well, we dont. We need a MLB and a DE. give me Rey Maualuga and Tyson Jackson. make it happen phil.

keylime_5
10-19-2008, 07:59 PM
i thought williams, leonard, and even thomas played okay at DE today. I think the only problem on defense is the linebackers, but I'm not worried about that side of the ball right now.

DA and the offense has been way too inconsistent, sometimes it looks like Anderson can't find any accuracy at all, even on routine short passes to RBs and WRs in the flat. I hope to God his leash is a lot shorter now than it was last week.

RoyHall#1
10-19-2008, 08:26 PM
We had to try the 54 yarder keylime, DA missed a wide open Braylon on 3rd and 10, and we can't go for it on 4th and 10 there...

Another performance like that and we need to see Quinn. And how the hell does a 6'6" QB get so many passes deflected!?

keylime_5
10-19-2008, 09:08 PM
I thought on either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down we should've tried to move closer and to the middle of the field in case we didn't get another first down. It was a 54 yarder on the right hash when it was 1st and ten, I'm surprised the coaches felt didn't try to get it more into range instead of trying to get closer to the endzone. I was stunned they didn't run it or do a short pass or short out to get it closer before trying to get downfield more, we had enough time.

Freddy G
10-20-2008, 07:11 PM
I'm not sure i want to see Brady until our coaching staff (Romeo) shows better game/time management because it doesn't matter who the QB is when your coaches don't give u a chance. However, i do realize we wouldn't have been in this predicament had there been better QB play.

Anderson just can't get it...I want Brady more and more every game.

kalbears13
10-22-2008, 04:12 AM
We had to try the 54 yarder keylime, DA missed a wide open Braylon on 3rd and 10, and we can't go for it on 4th and 10 there...

Another performance like that and we need to see Quinn. And how the hell does a 6'6" QB get so many passes deflected!?

It might be because he's staring down his receivers? Maybe he's trying to force it so he throws it lower.

TickOffOurBestPlayer
10-22-2008, 06:25 AM
Ryan Tucker
Phil Dawson
Ryan Pontbraind
Kellen Winslow
Sean Jones
Andra Davis
Steve Heiden

What do these players have in common?

Hint: Phil Savage and Romeo Crennel are more worried about getting rid of all the players that they didn't draft or bring in themselves than actually winning football games.

brownie
10-24-2008, 05:23 AM
Ryan Tucker
Phil Dawson
Ryan Pontbraind
Kellen Winslow
Sean Jones
Andra Davis
Steve Heiden

What do these players have in common?

Hint: Phil Savage and Romeo Crennel are more worried about getting rid of all the players that they didn't draft or bring in themselves than actually winning football games.

I wouldn't be upset to see Winslow go, he's a jerk. You don't win with guys with that attitude. Do you think that Bellicheck would keep him on his team? I don't.

Freddy G
10-26-2008, 05:13 PM
Shaun Rogers is the best decision we've made in a while.

keylime_5
10-26-2008, 06:06 PM
Browns winnnnnnn!!!! tell your children to pledge allegiance to shaun rogers at school tomorrow morning instead of the flag.


...why are we 2-0 without K2 this year? that's mighty curious.

The Unseen
10-26-2008, 06:06 PM
Good game guys. I'll excuse you guys whilst Big Baby has all your babies.

j05son
10-26-2008, 06:23 PM
Shaun Rogers is the best decision we've made in a while.

Hell yeah he has. The Browns have 1 for sure Pro Bowler this season.

Browns winnnnnnn!!!! tell your children to pledge allegiance to shaun rogers at school tomorrow morning instead of the flag.


...why are we 2-0 without K2 this year? that's mighty curious.

K2 is one of my favorite players, but sadly, I think he's a Shockey clone. Not so much in play style, but in the form that we may be a better team without them and the distractions they make. No one will argue that K2 is very talented, but for all the good he brings, there is at LEAST the same amount of negative. We quietly dangled him around before the trade deadline and I think we'll be more aggressive this offseason and perusing something. Who knows, maybe K2's attitude will change.

Good game guys. I'll excuse you guys whilst Big Baby has all your babies.

Good game. Any game going down to the wire like that is a hell of a game. This is a big win for us, as Jacksonville is a good team.

TickOffOurBestPlayer
10-26-2008, 07:11 PM
We are a great football team and then + Derek Anderson + D'Qwell Jackson + Andra Davis = very average.

holt_bruce81
10-27-2008, 12:41 AM
So is Martin Rucker healthy for you guys or is he still suffering from an injury?

PickedOffTwice
10-27-2008, 04:09 AM
Derek Anderson, while not losing us the game today, did again only complete barely 50% of his passes. And that's a good day for him......

Bottom Line:

Put Brady Quinn in there, Romeo!

giantsfan
10-27-2008, 04:49 AM
Just wondering about the browns' pass rush and how badly you guys need an upgrade and where to upgrade that pass rush.

TickOffOurBestPlayer
10-27-2008, 06:54 AM
Just wondering about the browns' pass rush and how badly you guys need an upgrade and where to upgrade that pass rush.

hmm ILB and DE. Our outside pass rushers have talent and are getting the QB, but the QB can just step up because aside from Shaun Rogers we have nothing pushing the pocket from the inside.

SuperKevin
10-29-2008, 03:48 PM
Whats with the random electrical tape numbers on the helmets now?

JSimmsy21
11-02-2008, 03:26 PM
Whats with the random electrical tape numbers on the helmets now?

they're the throwback helmets.

SuperKevin
11-02-2008, 03:27 PM
they're the throwback helmets.

They look stupid. I like the plain helmets

j05son
11-02-2008, 03:36 PM
Another great game. [/sarcasm]

I don't know if it was the play calling or Derek Anderson, but that consecutive streak of I don't know how many 3 and outs is unacceptable in this level.

The running game was absent [I know it was Baltimore, but more absent then it should have been].

Edwards drops 2 more this game, one will score or put us in the redzone to score.

Our front 7 allows so many screens, and medium level runs that gives Baltimore better and better field positioning. I'm sick of seeing 3rd and 8 for our offense, and 2nd and 3 all day from theirs.

I think we have a promising secondary, but McDonald got burnt early, Wright made a few mistakes that were VERY costly and I don't know if Jones even had a tackle.

Hey, at least Cribbs played well =[

SeanTaylorRIP
11-02-2008, 03:42 PM
For someone so big and credited or being so bruising watching Jamal Lewis his entire career I can say he is an awful goal line back. He has never hit a hole hard in his life and is more content with chopping and shuffling his feet 5 yards deep like he's about to juke someone out. Honestly Harrison and Wright I think would be better options. They always give Jamal credit for "softening" defenses but to me he is far too indecisive and despite his size he isn't nearly as punishing as we are made to believe. Unlike a guy like Stephen Davis who always fell forward 4 yards or so Jamal Lewis goes down way to easy. He is content with just running into a pile, chopping his feet in place, and sitting down. Obviously I am not a Browns fan but that is just the way I see it. Would like to know your guys input on it. I think Cleveland would benefit greatly by drafting a stud RB like Knowshon Moreno or obviously ideally home kid Chris Wells to grow with Brady Quinn or sign someone via free agency.

keylime_5
11-03-2008, 04:13 PM
Per NFL Live Brady Quinn is gonna start Thursday against Denver.

j05son
11-03-2008, 11:20 PM
Per NFL Live Brady Quinn is gonna start Thursday against Denver.

What a great day. Brady gets the nod and Jurevicius will be back for '09.

What a day.

=]

keylime_5
11-04-2008, 09:44 AM
I hope Brady looks good against Denver for his confidence. No Champ Bailey and a pretty lousy Broncos defensive unit should be ripe for the picking if Braylon and Kellen show up.

wicket
11-07-2008, 05:26 AM
How did you guys like the way quinn was playing, I was a huge fan of him in college. I really liked him in the bit of the game i saw. But I am biased of course.

keylime_5
11-07-2008, 08:19 AM
Quinn looked great. I've never seen a Browns or Buckeyes QB in my lifetime of watching football throw better short passes. I like how he made things happen when there was nothing there - big difference between he and Anderson other than the whole accuracy thing.

LonghornsLegend
11-07-2008, 09:30 PM
Is there any reason you guys are still starting McDonald?? He has looked pathetic to say the least.

keylime_5
11-08-2008, 09:01 AM
he's looked really good at times too. We would be better off putting him at nickel. I think he'd be a very above average nickelback. You need three good corners in today's NFL anymore, and we only have 2 good enough to start.

j05son
11-08-2008, 12:32 PM
he's looked really good at times too. We would be better off putting him at nickel. I think he'd be a very above average nickelback. You need three good corners in today's NFL anymore, and we only have 2 good enough to start.

That's what I'm thinking as well.

As of right now, I am all for Jenkins, i think we need LBers but we need McDonald to be a nickel and Jenkins may be the best corner to come out in [insert number] years. I am more excited about the offseason then the rest of the regular season. How sad.

keylime_5
11-08-2008, 12:47 PM
we will probably be picking in the sweet spot of the first round for getting linebackers, runningbacks, or cornerbacks too. If you need a tackle, quarterback, or elite WR usually that's top 5 or top 10. We'll be somewhere between 8th and 14th probably and that's where great linebackers get picked.

Iamcanadian
11-09-2008, 03:07 AM
I still believe it has to be an OLB who can rush the passer. A CB would be #2 but I wouldn't touch Jenkins unless it was in the 11 to 14 range.
I don't think we can exclude RB either. Lewis is slowing up noticably and could be useless next year. A MLB like Maualuga wouldn't hurt.

1) OLB - need a pass rusher
2) RB - cannot afford to let Lewis age without a replacement in hand
3) CB - cannot fix everything at once and effective RB's are easier to find in round 2
4) WR - just not as important as the other 3 positions

keylime_5
11-09-2008, 11:53 AM
yeah, I'd add to that probably an enforcer at ILB too. Secondary concerns might be a long term future replacement at right guard and center as well as DE, but there isn't any hurry to find those this offseason at all really.

Iamcanadian
11-10-2008, 01:15 PM
yeah, I'd add to that probably an enforcer at ILB too. Secondary concerns might be a long term future replacement at right guard and center as well as DE, but there isn't any hurry to find those this offseason at all really.

I agree, we need a really tough guy in the middle but a pass rusher must come 1st.

JSimmsy21
11-12-2008, 08:59 PM
http://cowher09.com/index.html


sign it!!!!!!

j05son
11-13-2008, 01:53 PM
=[

new coach means new staff.

new staff means new playbooks.

=[

Romeo isn't the problem man. It's the team. The last thing I can say that Romeo has done that was like WTF?! was the Pittsburgh game.

It's like our HS basketball team. We were bad but it wasn't Costello's fault. It was the team's fault. Costello was just the scapegoat.

We all know Romeo came in this with nothing and there's still a lot of question marks on this team still. We aren't in a place where we can be considered a favorite.

We have a QB with 1 full game under his belt currently, a RB that has a lot of tread on tire who is doing much worse than advertised [remember TC and preseason when they said Jamal was in the best shape of his life] it's not really working for him. Braylon can't catch a cold, Stallworth stepped on a crack and broke his back before every game, JJ is on his 7th knee surgery, Steptoe [seriously?]. Winslow has been more of a distraction than anything else. We've had injuries and shuffling along the O-Line and it's not been as consistent as we would want it to be.

Defensively, our D-Line seems to be doing much much better. Rogers is definitely a beast and I love how many knock downs Williams gets. We just need another presence somewhere in LB that can get after the QB. Wimbley was suppose to be that double digit sack machine, now it looks like we should've grabbed Ngata instead. Secondary we have 2 young and raw corners who have been playing above what anyone really thought they would. Jones imo has been the let down. It was Jones who wasn't lined up properly against that 90something yard 1 play TD against Denver.

The season seriously isn't because of Romeo. It's that we over performed last season and were marketed something that didn't go as planned.

Look at all the holes we've mentioned, RB, WR, DL depth, OLB [sack machine], OLB [stout run stopper for strong side], ILB [the enforcer type], a starting CB [move McDonald to nickel], etc...

That's way to many holes for a team to be competitive. It's not all on Romeo. There's only so much he can do. Against Pitt I agree he had some questionable calls [I even tried defending him] but this season isn't because of him.

You don't come into a team that has x amount of original players [btw, most of them seem to be on special teams] and can win at this level of play.

Iamcanadian
11-17-2008, 02:41 AM
=[

new coach means new staff.

new staff means new playbooks.

=[

Romeo isn't the problem man. It's the team. The last thing I can say that Romeo has done that was like WTF?! was the Pittsburgh game.

It's like our HS basketball team. We were bad but it wasn't Costello's fault. It was the team's fault. Costello was just the scapegoat.

We all know Romeo came in this with nothing and there's still a lot of question marks on this team still. We aren't in a place where we can be considered a favorite.

We have a QB with 1 full game under his belt currently, a RB that has a lot of tread on tire who is doing much worse than advertised [remember TC and preseason when they said Jamal was in the best shape of his life] it's not really working for him. Braylon can't catch a cold, Stallworth stepped on a crack and broke his back before every game, JJ is on his 7th knee surgery, Steptoe [seriously?]. Winslow has been more of a distraction than anything else. We've had injuries and shuffling along the O-Line and it's not been as consistent as we would want it to be.

Defensively, our D-Line seems to be doing much much better. Rogers is definitely a beast and I love how many knock downs Williams gets. We just need another presence somewhere in LB that can get after the QB. Wimbley was suppose to be that double digit sack machine, now it looks like we should've grabbed Ngata instead. Secondary we have 2 young and raw corners who have been playing above what anyone really thought they would. Jones imo has been the let down. It was Jones who wasn't lined up properly against that 90something yard 1 play TD against Denver.

The season seriously isn't because of Romeo. It's that we over performed last season and were marketed something that didn't go as planned.

Look at all the holes we've mentioned, RB, WR, DL depth, OLB [sack machine], OLB [stout run stopper for strong side], ILB [the enforcer type], a starting CB [move McDonald to nickel], etc...

That's way to many holes for a team to be competitive. It's not all on Romeo. There's only so much he can do. Against Pitt I agree he had some questionable calls [I even tried defending him] but this season isn't because of him.

You don't come into a team that has x amount of original players [btw, most of them seem to be on special teams] and can win at this level of play.


I agree 1000%. We are still a draft or 2 away from having a real shot at the SB.

keylime_5
11-17-2008, 11:49 AM
Every week we get outcoached, I'm tired of it. It's not all Romeo's fault we are bad but he's part of the problem. Bring in a new coach, a motivator who knows Xs and Os and can be a hard ass on guys like Braylon and Winslow. No more fluff, all the good coaches aren't player's coaches, they're guys like Parcells, Bellicheck, Coughlin, etc. Even if we brought in a no good coach was exactly the same as Crennel but had a clue how to do clock management we'd be better off.

j05son
11-17-2008, 09:08 PM
I want an enforcer at MLB more and more every game I watch.

7 guys around Lynch and he scores a TD.

How about Davis and Williams missing tackles within the 2 min warning allowing Buffalo to move further and further down the field.

I am impressed with Brady Quinn's thus far.

Halsey
11-17-2008, 10:14 PM
I'm not a Browns fan, but everytime I see Jerome Harrison I'm impressed. Why doesn't he get more touches?

j05son
11-17-2008, 10:44 PM
I'm not a Browns fan, but everytime I see Jerome Harrison I'm impressed. Why doesn't he get more touches?

He can't pick up the blitz or block to save his life. He's a better runner then Wright is, but Wright does all the little things you need when your RB doesn't get the carry.

EDIT:

Love the win, maybe this will quite you Romeo haters. How about that Romeo clock management...

Also, not Quinn's best to finish out that last drive, but so far, I'm impressed with what he's shown. Definitely a good decision to make the switch.

kalbears13
11-18-2008, 02:02 AM
What I really like is that Brady Quinn hasn't turned it over yet (Even though he was quite close twice tonight.)

keylime_5
11-18-2008, 08:18 AM
clock management was lousy, we left them nearly 2 minutes to get a field goal, we should've run it once so our FG wasn't 56 yards and so there was only about minute left instead of 2. THat was almost the washington game all over for a second. The squib kick gave them the ball near midfield so after that one pass it was basically a win for Buffalo. Crennel got really lucky that Lindell missed a manageable field goal to save his butt. We won in spite of his mistakes, no doubt about that.

I love how everyone all week in Brownsland was crying for more Harrison, and while we didn't really get much more Jerome than usual, we got a few huge plays from him. I'd like to see him get 10 touches a game - he's not an everydown guy and he won't do much between the tackles, but he can get some yards in a hurry.

Quinn's stats weren't good, but he looked pretty good out there against a tough D on a cold, windy night. Let's beat Houston at home and get closer to .500.

JSimmsy21
11-18-2008, 10:26 AM
I want an enforcer at MLB more and more every game I watch.

7 guys around Lynch and he scores a TD.

How about Davis and Williams missing tackles within the 2 min warning allowing Buffalo to move further and further down the field.

I am impressed with Brady Quinn's thus far.

same here. my stomach twists in knots every time i see Dra hit the wrong hole and make no effort to backtrack. i really thought this would have been Williams year, but he's regressed. Big time.

i was almost on the Orakpo bandwagon for a while, and liking jasper brinkley in like the 3rd or 4th, but i'm all over Maualuga again.

Quinn did OK, at best. he was very poised in the pocket despite Buffalo bringing the house that many times. he actually avoided a few sacks by moving around, something we're not used to seeing. his throws outside the numbers were terrible. And there's that little problem with Beasy dropping everything. that doesn't help at all. but overall for a night as cold as it was, he did ok.

I'm not a Browns fan, but everytime I see Jerome Harrison I'm impressed. Why doesn't he get more touches?

I'm still wondering why he isn't starting. or at least getting as many carries as Lewis. Harrison had 80 yards to three carries. Even if you take away the 72 yarder, thats a four YPC average. Which is better than Lewis.

He can't pick up the blitz or block to save his life. He's a better runner then Wright is, but Wright does all the little things you need when your RB doesn't get the carry.

EDIT:

Love the win, maybe this will quite you Romeo haters. How about that Romeo clock management...

Also, not Quinn's best to finish out that last drive, but so far, I'm impressed with what he's shown. Definitely a good decision to make the switch.

thats what Wright is for, but last night he did a pretty lousy job of blocking. i don't understand why we never once ran a screen pass! they blitz, we beat it. isn't that common football knowledge??

I'm still a Romeo hater. Keylime is right, our last drive for the 56 yarder shouldn't have played out like that. Buffalo only had one time out. even if we didn't get the first, it would have taken a lot of extra time off the clock.

Keylime- we had to kick that last squib. they were killing us on returns all night. if they returned that kick, it would have been game over.

side note i'm bring up the Cowher moving to Cleveland rumor again. i was talking to one of my friends the other day. Well her parents, whom live in Strongsville, informed her that Cowher was looking at buying a house two houses down from them. as of now there was no sale. Food for thought, take it for what its worth.

keylime_5
11-18-2008, 11:16 AM
when you're up by only three with nearly 2 minutes left you give it to them near their own 45 you must be crazy. If you don't think your coverage team can stop them from moving it up near the 40 yard line you might as well kick it Out of bounds. They would have been better off kicking it deep and taking their chances, too much time on the clock and they only were moving the ball with their runningbacks. One pass they were in FG range. We are extremely lucky to be 4-6 and not 3-7 after that.

Babylon
11-18-2008, 03:14 PM
I was pretty much taken back by the ineptness of that back 7 to tackle the ballcarrier, on a couple of plays they looked like they couldnt bring the QB down. I think they need linebackers that can tackle (obviously). I would look at Curry, Spikes, Rey Rey and Laurinaitis. I don't think you want someone that makes a top 10 plays on ESPN rather someone that can make a dozen tackles a game, cover and occasionally get to the QB. Let the experts figure who that would be.

keylime_5
11-18-2008, 06:55 PM
Depressing thought: if we didn't blow those two double digit fourth quarter leads to Baltimore and Denver then we are 6-4 right now and would be currently sitting in a wildcard spot. :(

Iamcanadian
11-19-2008, 02:18 AM
when you're up by only three with nearly 2 minutes left you give it to them near their own 45 you must be crazy. If you don't think your coverage team can stop them from moving it up near the 40 yard line you might as well kick it Out of bounds. They would have been better off kicking it deep and taking their chances, too much time on the clock and they only were moving the ball with their runningbacks. One pass they were in FG range. We are extremely lucky to be 4-6 and not 3-7 after that.

I love second guessers. I would just love to see what you would have said if Crennel had the kicker, kick it deep and McKelvin returned it for a TD or a where a cheap FG would win the game. I can just imagine.
The simple fact is that Braylon Edwards has killed us this season. NFL Network ran a showcase of all his dropped balls this season, 2 of which would have beaten both Dallas and Pittsburgh otherwise we are easily 6-4 and probably leading the Division.
It also hasn't helped that age is definitely catching up to Lewis.
You might as well face it. Crennel is going to be our HC next year. So live with it.

j05son
11-19-2008, 02:51 AM
I love second guessers. I would just love to see what you would have said if Crennel had the kicker, kick it deep and McKelvin returned it for a TD or a where a cheap FG would win the game. I can just imagine.
The simple fact is that Braylon Edwards has killed us this season. NFL Network ran a showcase of all his dropped balls this season, 2 of which would have beaten both Dallas and Pittsburgh otherwise we are easily 6-4 and probably leading the Division.
It also hasn't helped that age is definitely catching up to Lewis.
You might as well face it. Crennel is going to be our HC next year. So live with it.

This man knows....


Should've, would've, could've. A win is a win. The loses aren't because of one man [Romeo] but on multiple people that makeup the team....Some of you are expecting to much and really, firing Romeo is only going to delay that process even more...

CantStopGregJones
11-19-2008, 06:43 AM
Depressing thought: if we didn't blow those two double digit fourth quarter leads to Baltimore and Denver then we are 6-4 right now and would be currently sitting in a wildcard spot. :(

You are what you are...no excuses. We could just as easily be 1-9 as we could be 8-2. We haven't been blown out in a lot of our losses, but we haven't exactly been world beaters in our wins either. We are no better than a 4-6 team and we are no worse than a 4-6 team.

So who is down for firing Romeo Crennel and switching to the 43 defense? I'll be honest I wasn't down for a big change like that since we've put so much into it already and constant change is never good, but I think I've had enough of the 34 defense after 58 straight pathetic showings. Its time we go back to the 43 defense and bring in some real coaches.

Phil Savage can stay he's done great.

keylime_5
11-19-2008, 09:07 AM
I love second guessers. I would just love to see what you would have said if Crennel had the kicker, kick it deep and McKelvin returned it for a TD or a where a cheap FG would win the game. I can just imagine.
The simple fact is that Braylon Edwards has killed us this season. NFL Network ran a showcase of all his dropped balls this season, 2 of which would have beaten both Dallas and Pittsburgh otherwise we are easily 6-4 and probably leading the Division.
It also hasn't helped that age is definitely catching up to Lewis.
You might as well face it. Crennel is going to be our HC next year. So live with it.

before the kick i was saying, "kick it deep", you gotta take the chance with that slim of a lead and that amount of time left. I've never seen a team squib kick it with a 2 point lead and nearly 2 minutes left. Kick it to the upback who is lined up on the 20 maybe, but don't squib it up the middle. And I wouldn't be too sure that Crennel will be back next year if we win the 6 games it looks like we will. There've been a lot of bad things this year, and coaching is part of the problem.

keylime_5
11-20-2008, 12:40 PM
Don't ask how, but I do get WTAM 1100 AM in south carolina, and I heard that Quinn broke a finger on his throwing hand. I think he's gonna play Sunday, but anyone in Ohio know if this is legit?

EDIT: aha! http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8822538/Quinn-has-broken-finger,-will-try-to-play-Sunday

CantStopGregJones
11-20-2008, 02:10 PM
Don't ask how, but I do get WTAM 1100 AM in south carolina, and I heard that Quinn broke a finger on his throwing hand. I think he's gonna play Sunday, but anyone in Ohio know if this is legit?

EDIT: aha! http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8822538/Quinn-has-broken-finger,-will-try-to-play-Sunday

Its legit, however, Romeo said he will play and no we will not see Derek Anderson.

On a side note. Donte Stallworth would have already declared himself unable to go if he had this same injury. Anyone else down for cutting him and his constantly sore vagina?

JSimmsy21
11-20-2008, 07:04 PM
Its legit, however, Romeo said he will play and no we will not see Derek Anderson.

On a side note. Donte Stallworth would have already declared himself unable to go if he had this same injury. Anyone else down for cutting him and his constantly sore vagina?

he'll be cut. It's almost certain. i posted this a while back ago...

i got an update on Stallworth's contract according to the OBR.

while most of you, including myself, were pretty confused at the 10 mil guaranteed money we through at him. While technically a seven-year, $35 million deal, the contract could better be described as a one-year, $5.655 million deal, with a club option for six more years.

Stallworth was given a $4.5 million signing bonus and has a base salary of $605,000 in 2008, of which $500,000 is guaranteed. Stallworth also will receive a $50,000 workout bonus this year and $500,000 of his $745,000 base salary in 2009 is guaranteed.

However, in March of 2009, Stallworth is due a roster bonus of $4.875 million and scheduled to carry a cap number just north of $6.4 million in the second year of the deal. Unless Stallworth has an amazing year he probably wont ever see that money.

Should Stallworth make it past the first year of the deal, he has scheduled roster bonuses of $1.5 million in 2010, and $500,000 in each of the last four years of the deal.

What this means is, the remaining guaranteed money that isnt paid in the first year of the contract will be dividing evenly and counted against our cap for the following six years.

j05son
11-26-2008, 11:35 PM
Brady Quinn out for the year.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27259

Being discussed in NFL subforum. Feel free to continue discussion there or in this one [Cleveland Browns Discussion], new topics about it will be locked and deleted.

BrownsTown
11-30-2008, 09:07 PM
So no Quinn and now no Anderson.

Ken Dorsey vs. Tennessee. I think we might not win.

kalbears13
11-30-2008, 10:16 PM
So no Quinn and now no Anderson.

Ken Dorsey vs. Tennessee. I think we might not win.

It's hard to see us winning any game for the rest of the season.

djp
12-01-2008, 12:17 AM
KENNY DORSEY!!!!!!!!!!!!

My man!

I hope he does well. One of my favorite Canes of all time.

j05son
12-01-2008, 02:06 AM
KENNY DORSEY!!!!!!!!!!!!

My man!

I hope he does well. One of my favorite Canes of all time.

HELL YEAH! I love me some Ken Dorsey =]

JSimmsy and I started a Dor-sey chant a few seasons ago when we had Frye, and both he and Anderson were horrible...We took full credit for that chant.

p.s. I know I'm getting a Cribbs jersey in white this Christmas =]

kalbears13
12-01-2008, 02:38 AM
HELL YEAH! I love me some Ken Dorsey =]

JSimmsy and I started a Dor-sey chant a few seasons ago when we had Frye, and both he and Anderson were horrible...We took full credit for that chant.

p.s. I know I'm getting a Cribbs jersey in white this Christmas =]

I was in that chant too. I was at the game when he came in against Tampa Bay and I was so happy when he came in. He did bad but he seems to be thrown in really bad situations though. 3rd and 20. But after seeing him in preseason I have little hope for the rest of the season.

j05son
12-01-2008, 03:55 AM
I was in that chant too. I was at the game when he came in against Tampa Bay and I was so happy when he came in. He did bad but he seems to be thrown in really bad situations though. 3rd and 20. But after seeing him in preseason I have little hope for the rest of the season.

I think it was the Tampa game [2006]. We kept making jokes that we wanted to hang ourselves from the second story of the dawg pound or wear bags for being a fan...I think that may be a game where we lost our buddy during the third quarter, as his drunk ass ended up in the parking lot sleeping on the tailgate of Jsimmy's truck...I know we had 4 tickets to that game, and usually when we had two it was me and Jsimmy that were there...

Do you remember dude?

kalbears13
12-01-2008, 03:10 PM
I think it was the Tampa game [2006]. We kept making jokes that we wanted to hang ourselves from the second story of the dawg pound or wear bags for being a fan...I think that may be a game where we lost our buddy during the third quarter, as his drunk ass ended up in the parking lot sleeping on the tailgate of Jsimmy's truck...I know we had 4 tickets to that game, and usually when we had two it was me and Jsimmy that were there...

Do you remember dude?

I wasn't there with you but I was chanting it from where I was. I guess I should have rephrased it better.

j05son
12-01-2008, 04:04 PM
I wasn't there with you but I was chanting it from where I was. I guess I should have rephrased it better.

No, I meant JSimmsy, that was there with me. =p

keylime_5
12-02-2008, 08:16 PM
Browns sign Bruce Gradkowski. QB controversy is finally over, we can trade Quinn AND Anderson now.

JSimmsy21
12-03-2008, 05:03 AM
I think it was the Tampa game [2006]. We kept making jokes that we wanted to hang ourselves from the second story of the dawg pound or wear bags for being a fan...I think that may be a game where we lost our buddy during the third quarter, as his drunk ass ended up in the parking lot sleeping on the tailgate of Jsimmy's truck...I know we had 4 tickets to that game, and usually when we had two it was me and Jsimmy that were there...

Do you remember dude?

i remember. it was cold. and i was drunk. xmas eve. he left in the middle of the second quater too. DA threw 4 picks i think. one was right to derrick brooks who took it in for a score. damn browns.

TitanHope
12-07-2008, 03:56 PM
Good game today guys. Good luck on the rest of the season.

keylime_5
12-07-2008, 03:58 PM
Chris Johnson is gonna get my fantasy team into the super bowl at least (today my playoffs started).

TitanHope
12-07-2008, 09:44 PM
He's really carried our offense. 1,098 yds and 8 TD's this season with 3 games left to play. He'll hopefully finish with 1,200+ yds. He also has 250+ yds receiving and a TD reception.

Kerry Collins gets a lot of credit for being responsible for the Titans offensive turn around from last year, but without CJ, we're not 12-1.

kalbears13
12-07-2008, 09:49 PM
At least we now know that there won't be a 3 way QB controversy.

CashmoneyDrew
12-07-2008, 10:17 PM
At least we now know that there won't be a 3 way QB controversy.

Wait til Gradkowski gets a shot! ;)

keylime_5
12-07-2008, 10:21 PM
my thoughts exactly :)

CantStopGregJones
12-18-2008, 01:53 PM
1. Real Coach
-This team would be a playoff team with a GM/HC tandom of Phil Savage and Butch Davis. Mark those words. Everyone hates Davis and wants Savage fired, but Davis was just a bad talent evaluater and couldn't attract good free agents. He was a better coach than Romeo though, and that is Savage's biggest problem...a sorry excuse of a coach.

2. LeRoy Hill LB
-We need someone next to Jackson and Hill is very underrated. Somehow has become the other guy next to Peterson and Lofa even though he's out played then both.

3. Chris Canty DE
-Igor Olshansky would be better for the run, but Canty has a little bit more pass rush abilities and we need it badly.

4. JaBari Greer NB
-We need another corner in the worst way. I really don't care which 2 start either, but if Wright's lack of effort doesn't pick up then he should be the one benched. I don't care how talented you are when you quit in the middle of a play almost every game at least twice then you need to be taught a lesson.

5. Eric Norwood OLB(Round 2)
-He'll probably end up a Steeler as a 3rd down pass rusher until Harrison ages and he'll kick out asses every year because this is the type of player they love. Well its time we start getting those players too

6. Michael Crabtree WR(Round 1)
-Make Braylon Edwards earn his spot again then he'll actually start concentrating and working hard again. JJ is gone soon anyway and Stallworth's vagina is always sore. We're going to be picking too high to land the linebackers we need now, so might as well give Quinn some play makers.

7. Rex Hadnot to Center, Tucker to RG and Fraley to the Bench
-Hank Fraley is responsible for the protection calls up front and time and again he makes the wrong call. There is a reason Philly let him go for so little and for a slightly above average center at that too. He's slower than he once was and he's never been powerful. Hadnot has always been a better center than guard and he's looking worse than he really is because he's playing next to the suck that is Fraley. Ryan Tucker when healthy is hands down our best lineman whether he be at guard or tackle. I love Joe Thomas, but we hit on all cylinders when Tucker plays.

8. Bench Jamal Lewis for Jerome Harrison
-We can't fill every hole in one offseason, so running back remains unfilled because they can be found every year a dime a dozen. Harrison should be giving the bulk of the carries to see if he can shine and Lewis can still be used as a short yardage bruiser....maybe that will even give him a boost.

9. Give Brady the reigns
-and 100% guarentee the starting Job is his. Don't make him look over his shoulder because he'll play nervous too and we can't afford that to happen.

10. Cut Donte Stallworth
-He doesn't give great effort his vagina is always hurting him and he is affriad to go over the middle. He's the most pathetic football player since Charlie Frye.


Side note;

What is the final score going to be this week?

Cincinnati 5
Cleveland 3

We lose on a Hank Fraley whiff for a sack then Dorsey fumbles into the endzone for a saftey. hahaha the #2 and #3 most pathetic teams in the entire league and neither of us have a QB who can even be considered a decent backup. Detroit could actually probably beat the both of us, so maybe we're really #1 and #2???

j05son
12-18-2008, 04:06 PM
1. Real Coach
-This team would be a playoff team with a GM/HC tandom of Phil Savage and Butch Davis. Mark those words. Everyone hates Davis and wants Savage fired, but Davis was just a bad talent evaluater and couldn't attract good free agents. He was a better coach than Romeo though, and that is Savage's biggest problem...a sorry excuse of a coach.

2. LeRoy Hill LB
-We need someone next to Jackson and Hill is very underrated. Somehow has become the other guy next to Peterson and Lofa even though he's out played then both.

3. Chris Canty DE
-Igor Olshansky would be better for the run, but Canty has a little bit more pass rush abilities and we need it badly.

4. JaBari Greer NB
-We need another corner in the worst way. I really don't care which 2 start either, but if Wright's lack of effort doesn't pick up then he should be the one benched. I don't care how talented you are when you quit in the middle of a play almost every game at least twice then you need to be taught a lesson.

5. Eric Norwood OLB(Round 2)
-He'll probably end up a Steeler as a 3rd down pass rusher until Harrison ages and he'll kick out asses every year because this is the type of player they love. Well its time we start getting those players too

6. Michael Crabtree WR(Round 1)
-Make Braylon Edwards earn his spot again then he'll actually start concentrating and working hard again. JJ is gone soon anyway and Stallworth's vagina is always sore. We're going to be picking too high to land the linebackers we need now, so might as well give Quinn some play makers.

7. Rex Hadnot to Center, Tucker to RG and Fraley to the Bench
-Hank Fraley is responsible for the protection calls up front and time and again he makes the wrong call. There is a reason Philly let him go for so little and for a slightly above average center at that too. He's slower than he once was and he's never been powerful. Hadnot has always been a better center than guard and he's looking worse than he really is because he's playing next to the suck that is Fraley. Ryan Tucker when healthy is hands down our best lineman whether he be at guard or tackle. I love Joe Thomas, but we hit on all cylinders when Tucker plays.

8. Bench Jamal Lewis for Jerome Harrison
-We can't fill every hole in one offseason, so running back remains unfilled because they can be found every year a dime a dozen. Harrison should be giving the bulk of the carries to see if he can shine and Lewis can still be used as a short yardage bruiser....maybe that will even give him a boost.

9. Give Brady the reigns
-and 100% guarentee the starting Job is his. Don't make him look over his shoulder because he'll play nervous too and we can't afford that to happen.

10. Cut Donte Stallworth
-He doesn't give great effort his vagina is always hurting him and he is affriad to go over the middle. He's the most pathetic football player since Charlie Frye.


Side note;

What is the final score going to be this week?

Cincinnati 5
Cleveland 3

We lose on a Hank Fraley whiff for a sack then Dorsey fumbles into the endzone for a saftey. hahaha the #2 and #3 most pathetic teams in the entire league and neither of us have a QB who can even be considered a decent backup. Detroit could actually probably beat the both of us, so maybe we're really #1 and #2???

Crabtree will most likely be gone by our pick...All mocks are showing Seattle in love with him.

keylime_5
12-18-2008, 05:29 PM
I think Scott is way off in his opinion of the Browns needs. Alex Hall isn't expected to be more than a situational guy at OLB and a guy they want to develop slowly. If we go into 2009 with Hall/Wimbley as our OLBs we are in deep ****. I think they expect to have Wimbley start at one OLB and Hall as the backup with a new guy who can rush the passer well at the other OLB. CB is not that pressing of a need, McDonald has done well in all but a few games this year - his second year in the league and first as a starter. McDonald I think will turn into a solid starting CB, he has been a playmaker this year at times. Jenkins would be a BPA pick if Curry and Orakpo are gone. Those two clearly should be at or in the top 3 on our draft board as things stand right now. OLB and ILB are far and away our top 2 needs on defense, Scott just got some bad information or doesn't know enough about the Browns apparently.

But as bad as our offense is and with the trouble we've had with prima donnas like Braylon and Kellen, drafting a guy like Wells or Crabtree might be a good idea if we sign a big time linebacker in free agency.

keylime_5
12-20-2008, 09:50 PM
this article caught my eye:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2008/12/analysis_crennel_likely_will_t.html
Kinda makes ya feel sorry about Crennel and his situation, I wonder how good we would've been if we had some better defensive talent. It kind of is unfair that he will be losing his job here in the next month, but making changes after having really bad years 3 out of 4 seasons makes sense too. You know Savage will be on the hot seat big time next year if we do indeed bring him back. I'm for giving Savage another go b/c he is one of the best in the league at recognizing talent, but he's definitely on his last strike with all the other things that have gone on.

Iamcanadian
12-21-2008, 12:00 AM
Cleveland doesn't have a solid defense, nobody is saying they do but for as bad as it is, their are 18 teams who are giving up more points than Cleveland before Dorsey became the starting QB. That means the defense is playing way above its talent level and Crennel has to get some credit for that. In fact the defense since Crennel took the job has outperformed its talent level by quite a bit.
Tell me how did he win 10 games last year with this defense minus Rogers and Williams???
John Fox was on his last legs in Carolina, with their fans calling for his head for 2 unproductive seasons in a row. It was do or die for him this season. Fans are fickle my friend and 'what have you done for me lately' rules pro football fan's thoughts. Last year Green Bay was the talk of the league and Rodgers has had a very good season yet their defense has collapsed and they have only won 5 games in a very weak Division.
The Cleveland schedule shows we have played teams with a .574 winning percentage, guess what, that makes it the toughest schedule in the whole NFL bar none. Edwards has started dropping the ball at an alarming rate, both our starting QB's are gone for the season with injuries, Lewis has slowed down noticeably and his career may be done, and Thomas has had a sophomore slump and isn't playing at an all Pro level.Our talent level on defense with only one 1st rounder isn't near playoff calibre, but it is just all Crennel's fault just like it is all Fox's fault the last 2 seasons prior to this season, like it is all McCarthy's fault for Green Bay, like it is all Turner's fault in San Diego. Gee, injuries are catching up to the Giants, I guess that is all the HC's fault as well.

Crennel is either close to 65 or maybe even older so he's likely to be let go and replaced to satisfy the fans. Teams often fire a HC as a sacrificial scapegoat for their own failures as an organization. Crennel took over a team that was devoid of talent at every position. The Butch Davis era left this team as he found it, an expansion team with zero productive 1st rounders on it. Yet in a few seasons Crennel produced a 10 win season even though only 1 first rounder had been added to the defense. This season he faced the toughest schedule in the NFL, had his star receiver go south on him with the dropsies, had his star TE get injured, had his 2 starting QB's get injured, had his #1 RB have age catch up to him and watched his rookie star LT have a poor sophomore slump. But you must be right, it is all his fault, most every fan thinks so and they must all be right. Crennel should have been able to solve all these problems facing the toughest schedule in the NFL without losing a beat.
If Lerner lets the fans rule him, this franchise had better get used to losing because we are never going to see a winner. If he also fires Savage, we'll start to return to the Butch Davis type of franchise and move back into the Oakland/Detroit type of team. Like I said, Crennel may be the sacrifical goat for everything that has gone bad this season facing the toughest schedule in the NFL, but solid owners know fans are fickle and weather the storm until he can see his oranization for another season with a better schedule.

soybean
12-22-2008, 06:23 PM
wow, didn't know he had it in him to get in a fight.

with a DT nonetheless.

probably called him ***.

And as he began what could be his last week in Cleveland, Crennel had to address a physical altercation that took place last week between quarterback Brady Quinn and defensive end Shaun Smith.

According to WKYC-TV's Jim Donovan, who is also the team's play-by-play radio announcer, Smith punched Quinn in the face following a heated verbal exchange inside the team's weight room. Browns tight end Darnell Dinkins confirmed the fight during a radio interview on WQAL, saying Quinn's face was marked.



http://search.espn.go.com/shaun-smith/nfl/cleveland-browns/47-4294803586

bored of education
12-23-2008, 07:57 AM
Brady got his ass kicked. What a ***** made Qb. haha joking. Sucks though

keylime_5
12-23-2008, 09:31 AM
What I heard is thtat Smith (who is like the king of smack and trash talk) told Brady he wouldn't make it in the pros and they got in a skirmish and then Smith got suspended.

JSimmsy21
12-25-2008, 12:23 AM
Brady got his ass kicked. What a ***** made Qb. haha joking. Sucks though

actually, Brady got Smith in the face and that is the SOLE reason he didnt play in the Bengals game.

keylime_5
12-29-2008, 11:53 AM
Sounds like Pioli is the top target for the newly open GM job, and on ESPN they sound like he'll accept the job. Lots of buzz about a Pioli/Mangini combo or maybe a Pioli/McDaniels if not. I don't think Cowher would come here (and I'm not sad about it either). I would be content with either of those. With the New England connection thing still going on it would at least be a sign of some continuity even with Crennel and Savage fired. Mangini and Crennel have similar philosophies, though Mangini is more like Belichick as a coach than the players' coach Crennel was.

Smooth Criminal
12-29-2008, 12:48 PM
ESPN said Cowher told Lerner he wasn't interested in coaching in 2009.

JSimmsy21
12-29-2008, 03:17 PM
Sounds like Pioli is the top target for the newly open GM job, and on ESPN they sound like he'll accept the job. Lots of buzz about a Pioli/Mangini combo or maybe a Pioli/McDaniels if not. I don't think Cowher would come here (and I'm not sad about it either). I would be content with either of those. With the New England connection thing still going on it would at least be a sign of some continuity even with Crennel and Savage fired. Mangini and Crennel have similar philosophies, though Mangini is more like Belichick as a coach than the players' coach Crennel was.

i really dont want McDaniels or Mangini. i dont want Mangini bc of the spygate thing and McDaniels b/c he is just like Chud. i want a guy that knows how to run the ball and stop the run. my next choice is R. Ryan. followed closely by Spagnulo and the titans D coordinator.

ESPN said Cowher told Lerner he wasn't interested in coaching in 2009.

thats true. and it makes me cry.

keylime_5
12-29-2008, 03:18 PM
I never wanted Cowher anyway personally. Lots of people were on that bandwagon all season, and it would be nice to have a proven successful head coach...but he's a Steelers great and I really could care less that we're not gonna have him. I would rather have a guy who becomes known for leading the Browns to greatness than a guy known for winning in Pittsburgh and coaching the Browns late in his career.

I agree about the philosophy Simmsy, run and stop the run. Oddly enough that was Crennel's style but we didn't do either very well the past 4 years, at least not over an extended period of time. Ryan would be a good hire, though hiring Mangini and Crennel as DC (awkward!) would be intriguing. Mangini isn't a players' coach like Crennel, he's more like Belichick where his players don't love him but he is smart and knows how to coach. I think if it wasn't those spoiled rotten media crazy New York fans that Mangini had to please he would still have a job and considered a good coach. The good thing about Pioli and McDaniels and Mangini at least is that they're young and they have Cleveland ties. Pioli and Mangini have something to prove as well.


...though Mangini and Pioli probably don't have as good a relationship after the whole Spygate thing. I think McDaniels and Jim Schwartz would be more realistic candidates for the HC job.

j05son
12-30-2008, 01:25 AM
Lerner expressed interest in filling the GM position first although he stated it wasn't set in stone. Lerner received permission to speak with Scott Pioli of New Engalnd and asked to speak with Bill Parcells as well. NFL.com reported that Floyd Reese, Charley Casserly and Tom Donahoe are also possibilities.

Floyd Reese = ex GM of the Titans from '94-'06. Known for drafting 3 RotY players in an 11 year gap or 27% of first round picks. The Rookies of the Year include Eddie George (1996), Jevon Kearse (1999) and Vince Young (2006). Reese is also known for drafting NFL co-MVP Steve McNair.

Charley Casserly = 16-year veteran NFL General Manager and 24-year NFL executive that worked for the Washington Redskins and Houston Texans.

I really hope Donahoe isn't considered though. Seriously =\

edit to avoid double post:

Lerner said Crennel "was a gentleman through and through" during their Monday morning meeting and said that Crennel would consider a return to the Browns as an assistant coach under the right circumstances.

I know it would be odd, and mostly unrealistic, but I would be excited to have Crennel as a DC. He's a players guy which is what you want from a coordinator [I will admit that I wanted Crennel to get pissed like a HC should], he is a D guy, and has vast amount of knowledge of the 3-4. I don't think any of you can deny that with the defensive personal we had, for the amount of time they were on the field, the D did better then expected. Did better than what was on paper, especially not having the right pieces in place for a 3-4 to work.

Wimbley can't rush, Jackson is undersized and fits more of a 4-3 WOLB mold, Crennel had little say in the personal he was given [Bell being drafted].

I wish we drafted Ngata over Wimbley, I so very much wish that trade never happened.

I think I'm hoping for a:
GM - Scott Pioli
HC - Josh McDaniels
DC - Romeo Crennel
/flame away.

KBN570
12-30-2008, 07:32 AM
The big question on my mind is if we'll be sticking with the 3-4 or switching to the 4-3. Personally I'm nervous about switching, since we've switched our defense up with linemen more oriented to the 3-4 and would have to make some major personel changes on defense if we do switch.

One scenerio of bringing in Pioli as GM and McDaniels from New England, which would possibly keep Romeo (and continuity) to our defense. If we do stick with the 3-4 in this case, I think Aaron Curry should be our top draft pick... he'd be ideal.

keylime_5
12-30-2008, 11:45 AM
Yes, if we stay with the 3-4 Curry needs to be the pick or at least very near the top of the board. If we go to a 4-3 then I think DE becomes a bigger need than linebacker (if it isn't already).

BrownsTown
12-30-2008, 11:50 AM
We'll probably stick with a 3-4. Honestly I think it will be Beanie or Malcolm as much as I think it will be Curry. We need a RB maybe more than anything on the team and we need a CB as well.

kalbears13
12-30-2008, 12:53 PM
We'll probably stick with a 3-4. Honestly I think it will be Beanie or Malcolm as much as I think it will be Curry. We need a RB maybe more than anything on the team and we need a CB as well.

When I first saw SteelersTown posted in this thread I was thinking, "oh no a Steelers fan posted in the thread, what stupid thing did he say?" Then I saw all the "we" stuff and I got confused, then I realized that you just lost a bet.

j05son
12-30-2008, 01:06 PM
We'll probably stick with a 3-4. Honestly I think it will be Beanie or Malcolm as much as I think it will be Curry. We need a RB maybe more than anything on the team and we need a CB as well.

What was the bet BT. Also, when do you go back to normal =`[

BrownsTown
12-30-2008, 01:18 PM
What was the bet BT. Also, when do you go back to normal =`[

Bet was Browns would sweep the Steelers or Steelers would sweep the Browns. Sig stays on until the superbowl, name goes back after this week.

:(

Sad part is, against the backups we probably would have won if Quinn or Anderson was in. We just had no offense.

kalbears13
12-30-2008, 01:22 PM
Sad part is, against the backups we probably would have won if Quinn or Anderson was in. We just had no offense.

If the game was closer then I might believe that but it was 31-0.

j05son
01-01-2009, 03:49 PM
Easier schedule than last year.

Home:

Baltimore Ravens, Cincinnati Bengals, Pittsburgh Steelers, Oakland Raiders, San Diego Chargers, Jacksonville Jaguars, Green Bay Packers, Minnesota Vikings.

Away:

Baltimore Ravens, Cincinnati Bengals, Pittsburgh Steelers, Denver Broncos, Kansas City Chiefs, Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears, Detroit Lions.

Outside of our normal division, we play the AFC West and NFC North as well as the Bills and Jags based on where we finished this past season.

source: www.ClevelandBrowns.com

woodnick
01-03-2009, 11:38 AM
Hey guys, theres a forum mock thats being set up if anybody is interested. There are still something like 12 GM spots available if people are interested.

For people that haven't participated in a forum mock in the past they should check it out, they are tons of fun.

Sign-up deadline is tonight, so try to hurry.


http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...t=28445&page=3

keylime_5
01-04-2009, 06:01 PM
Well, it looks like Eric Mangini as Head Coach and George Kokinis as General Manager. Kokinis is the pro personnel guy in Baltimore (just like Savage was) and Mangini loves the guy. I would be glad if we hired Mangini, and getting Kokinis means HC/GM harmony, something we REALLY lacked with Crennel/Savage. Lerner should've let Savage have more say in the head coach than he did and then I think we'd still have Phil and whoever that HC would've been. Plain Dealer says if Mangini didn't get fired then Pioli would've had more leverage on us and we probably would've given up lots of power to him, which could've backfired. I hope Lerner's instincts about Mangini are correct.

Flippityskip91
01-04-2009, 09:23 PM
I've been reading all the same stuff. I don't know all too much about Kokinis, just some brief bio skimming, but I like Mangini...and that harmony you mentioned would've likely saved us a lot of trouble last time around.

Iamcanadian
01-06-2009, 10:25 AM
Personally I think we are in for a long overhaul before we are a winning team again. Lerner simply is an owner who interfers with the football side of the organization and that rarely makes for a successful franchise. He looks to me like an owner who is too concerned with pleasing the fans and not enough concerned with building a franchise the right way.
He hired Crennel before he hired Savage and yet he fired Savage because Crennel failed to deliver. That makes no sense to me and now I hear the rumor that he might take it upon himself to hire the next HC instead of leaving it to his new GM. More and more I see an owner who cannot stay out of team's decision making and who thinks he can throw money at the situation and everything will turnout fine, hence the Cowher attempt.
I'm getting this gut feeling that this team is going nowhere for the time being and maybe for a long time. The simple fact is, owners like Lerner rarely produce winning franchises and we are stuck with him.

keylime_5
01-06-2009, 10:33 AM
With how the NFL works I think we'll win 10 games again next season. We have a lot of talent on offense and an easy schedule next year, I think with a small tweaking on O that we'll have a great unit there again next year with Quinn at the helm this time.

Flippityskip91
01-07-2009, 06:44 AM
Looks like Lerner's trying to pass the time by looking busy. He'll be interviewing Tom Heckert according to the Plain Dealer...although whoever wrote it said they didn't know when it would happen.

I'm definitely more familiar with Heckert than Kokinis...and I would feel better with his experience running the personnel department. Any thoughts?

CantStopGregJones
01-07-2009, 01:03 PM
Looks like Lerner's trying to pass the time by looking busy. He'll be interviewing Tom Heckert according to the Plain Dealer...although whoever wrote it said they didn't know when it would happen.

I'm definitely more familiar with Heckert than Kokinis...and I would feel better with his experience running the personnel department. Any thoughts?

Heckert doesn't make the call Andy Reid does and I don't like that because that means no one knows how good he is at evaluating talent that translates to the pros.

Flippityskip91
01-07-2009, 05:01 PM
Heckert doesn't make the call Andy Reid does and I don't like that because that means no one knows how good he is at evaluating talent that translates to the pros.

Well Reid may make the final call, but Heckert still manages the personnel department...which is more than can be said for Kokinis. Neither of them are sure things as they've never been the guy who makes the final choice.

However if I were going to pick between them I would be leaning toward Heckert as he has held a bigger responsibility than Kokinis. I have been wanting them to interview Floyd Reese for a while now, but that doesn't seem likely. Odds are Mangini becomes coach, Kokinis is the GM.

Iamcanadian
01-07-2009, 07:26 PM
As usual Lerner decides who will be his HC without waiting for the new GM to pick his own man. I'll say it again, this is not the way to build a franchise. What does Lerner know about hiring football people, nothing and this team will continue to flounder under his leadership.
Owners are suppost to hire solid GM's who in turn have the ability to find great HC's. The only 2 owners I know who pick their own HC is Al Davis in Oakland and Jerry Jones in Dallas and last I looked neither of them made the playoffs for awhile.
It raises again the strong possibility that our GM and HC won't be on the same page. Lerner thinks he can himself solve all our problems by throwing money at it, but IMO, this is a road to disaster.
I could see another 4 to 6 win season. This organization is on shaky ground with "I know what is best owner'. He doesn't believe in the people he hires and has no faith in their decisions. As I said previously, this is a recipe for disaster.

j05son
01-07-2009, 09:40 PM
I don't know, I think having the GM first is the proper way, but in all likelihood it's going to be Kokinis. So we're still going to have the two on the same page as the two want to work with each other.

JSimmsy21
01-07-2009, 09:42 PM
As usual Lerner decides who will be his HC without waiting for the new GM to pick his own man. I'll say it again, this is not the way to build a franchise. What does Lerner know about hiring football people, nothing and this team will continue to flounder under his leadership.
Owners are suppost to hire solid GM's who in turn have the ability to find great HC's. The only 2 owners I know who pick their own HC is Al Davis in Oakland and Jerry Jones in Dallas and last I looked neither of them made the playoffs for awhile.
It raises again the strong possibility that our GM and HC won't be on the same page. Lerner thinks he can himself solve all our problems by throwing money at it, but IMO, this is a road to disaster.
I could see another 4 to 6 win season. This organization is on shaky ground with "I know what is best owner'. He doesn't believe in the people he hires and has no faith in their decisions. As I said previously, this is a recipe for disaster.

QFT!! you, my friend, could not be more right! i dont know WTF Lerner is doing, but its not good. Mangina has made one good move so far, though. Its said that Rob Ryan, the son of Buddy Ryan and twin brother of Rex Ryan, will be the DC.

Xonraider
01-07-2009, 10:34 PM
My deepest regrets

NIN1984
01-07-2009, 10:39 PM
Rob Ryan is a good football coach he need a fresh start and now he has with the Browns. I wish him the best of luck.

keylime_5
01-07-2009, 11:06 PM
If Lerner doesn't know crap about football people then how would he be able to make a good decision in hiring a GM anymore than in hiring a head coach? I don't think it matters if he hires the GM or HC first if he doesn't know how to hire a good football guy. Most teams who have success have a great coach not necessarily GM. Lots of really good teams like Philadelphia, Seattle, New England, etc. don't even have that much power invested in their general managers but have great head coaches who make most decisions. I think having a GM and HC who are on the same page is most important right now, and I know Kokinis isn't a pushover either, he's a legit rising star on the GM candidate front. We have more talent that when we last hired a new Gm and HC, so hopefully it works this time around. I really think we would've won more games if Savage and Romeo didn't have such disconnect.

Rob Ryan = next guy to leave Oakland and resurrect his career :)

Iamcanadian
01-08-2009, 03:17 AM
If Lerner doesn't know crap about football people then how would he be able to make a good decision in hiring a GM anymore than in hiring a head coach? I don't think it matters if he hires the GM or HC first if he doesn't know how to hire a good football guy. Most teams who have success have a great coach not necessarily GM. Lots of really good teams like Philadelphia, Seattle, New England, etc. don't even have that much power invested in their general managers but have great head coaches who make most decisions. I think having a GM and HC who are on the same page is most important right now, and I know Kokinis isn't a pushover either, he's a legit rising star on the GM candidate front. We have more talent that when we last hired a new Gm and HC, so hopefully it works this time around. I really think we would've won more games if Savage and Romeo didn't have such disconnect.

Rob Ryan = next guy to leave Oakland and resurrect his career :)

Well Lerner's first 2 hires as a GM were terrible flops from the Butch Davis era. He seemed to have made a far better choice in Savage but didn't have the patience to see it through in my opinion. Even then he hired Crennel without consulting Savage and the wheels were set in motion for discontent down the road. Lerner didn't learn from his mistakes, instead he repeats the same process that brought Savage and Crennel on board.
Lerner's message is clear, win at all costs or I'll fire you if you have an off season. Does anybody here realize what that does to the new GM. His experience may tell him to draft a certain player who he believes can be a stud down the road and become a real impact player but it may take 3 years before that happens or does he just draft an average player who will start and maybe provide you with an extra win a year but will never be the impact player who can lead you to a SB. If I'm the new GM looking at Lerner's past actions, I probably realize I have to win now and draft the mundane player over a guy with high potential. What good is a player to a GM who is on the hot seat needing to produce now or else.
Lerner has set this franchise up to be a loser IMO. I'm predicting a complete disaster for this franchise. There will be no move forward especially now that we have 2 new men who owe their loyalty to Lerner alone. They won't be on the same page and building a championship team under these conditions just isn't going to happen. In fact I'm beginning to see some WCF in Lerner's methods and I could see us having a 50 year run at mediocrity similar to Detroit's. That is what happens when your owner is clueless about how to build an organization.

j05son
01-08-2009, 05:50 AM
I'm not so pessimistic, I think the difference here is that Kokinis and Mangini want to work together. Crennel and Savage didn't have that. I know that Mangini had a GM in NY that he was personal friends with and that it spoiled, but at the same time, Mangini took the fall for Favre and company blowing the end of the year. Savage/Crennel had 4 years to put the team together and supposedly there was a 5 year plan, the team regressed with inflated stats the year earlier, the toughest schedule in the NFL, and of course injuries caused this season to be a disaster and I agree that Crennel took the fall for it. If we're just going off of how things went the first time around, then Kokinis and Mangini will have at least 4 years to produce a winning product with much more talent than that last regime did.

I like Mangini and Kokinis sounds like another Savage clone, a GM star in the making that will have full control but the difference is Kokinis and Mangini want to work together. Maybe this time around a gm will listen to the Head Coach and draft players that fits the system [Bell? Jackson? Wimbley over Ngata when you know a NT is the anchor for a 3-4?] and go grab some veterans like the HC requests [Crennel wanted to grab Law, and other veterns as stop gaps for a season or two and Savage decided otherwise].

Iamcanadian
01-08-2009, 12:16 PM
I like Mangini and Kokinis sounds like another Savage clone, a GM star in the making that will have full control but the difference is Kokinis and Mangini want to work together. Maybe this time around a gm will listen to the Head Coach and draft players that fits the system [Bell? Jackson? Wimbley over Ngata when you know a NT is the anchor for a 3-4?] and go grab some veterans like the HC requests [Crennel wanted to grab Law, and other veterns as stop gaps for a season or two and Savage decided otherwise].[/QUOTE]

Here I have to disagree with you completely. The GM using his scouting department makes decisions on acquiring new talent. The HC uses that talent to win. Few winning franchises give their HC's any more than a superficial input into the draft or acquiring FA's. Having both jobs generally results in a disaster. It destroyed Shanahan in Denver and Nolan in San Fran and Butch Davis here.
Few solid GM's ever give their HC's input into player acquisitions other than requesting a wish list which may or may not be obtainable.
Savage had every right to turn down Crennel's requests for certain players if he felt it would destroy his overall plan for the team. That was solid management and not a weakness. HC's have short term plans because they know the weaknesses on their team. They consistently draft for need over talent to fill immediate holes and as Shanahan found out, it turned out to be a disaster to his once successful franchise.
Savage was fired because Lerner has no patience and wants to win now not later. He knows it will please the foolish fans who always think their team is better than it actually is. It will continue the sellouts of tickets and keep his fan base happy. However a quick look at the NFL and you don't find owners choosing their HC, that is left to their GM and the HC should control the hiring of his assistant coaches.
I'll say it again, since Lerner hired both Mangini and our new GM, they both will owe their careers to Lerner. What if our new GM doesn't believe in Mangini after 1 season, is he free to fire him, you had better believe under Lerner he won't have that power. He is stuck with Mangini until Lerner decides to fire him, really our GM has little say in the process.
This just isn't how successful franchises are run. Successful franchises have a chain of command that is respected throughout their organization. This chain of command doesn't exist in Cleveland. Everybody is forced to go through Lerner and this stagnates organizations. People who work for the Browns will now know that if you are on Lerner's good side you are safe from the team's GM and this inevitably leads to taking sides within an organization and the results are seen every year by the weaker teams in the NFL.
Lerner simply doesn't learn by his mistakes, he follows the same pattern every time he hires someone and it is a pattern that simply cannot work.
I think we are looking at the demise of the football fortunes for Cleveland. If this is how Lerner intends to operate, this team is going no where fast.

wonderbredd24
01-08-2009, 12:40 PM
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/01/while_kokinis_has_his_skeptics.html

This is a link to an article that made me feel much better about Kokonis

Iamcanadian
01-08-2009, 09:15 PM
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/01/while_kokinis_has_his_skeptics.html

This is a link to an article that made me feel much better about Kokonis

According to NFL Network, Mangini will call all the shots for Cleveland and our GM will have only minimal power. Gee wiz, we are back to the Butch Davis era.

j05son
01-08-2009, 10:25 PM
That means Kokinis won't be the GM, he can only leave with full authority.

keylime_5
01-08-2009, 10:28 PM
Whether or not they give Kokinis full power, the decisions on personnel are all gonna go through Mangini and Kokinis both. Mangini doesn't have the same power Davis had, Davis was double timing and didn't put his full effort into being the GM like Kokinis will.

Iamcanadian
01-09-2009, 02:57 PM
Whether or not they give Kokinis full power, the decisions on personnel are all gonna go through Mangini and Kokinis both. Mangini doesn't have the same power Davis had, Davis was double timing and didn't put his full effort into being the GM like Kokinis will.

I don't know if it is true or not but NFL Network said Mangini has full power over personnel and that is why he was hired first. Apparantly, our new GM will just handle the things Mangini cannot take care of and the business side of the job.
I tend to believe it is true because Lerner tried it before but only time will tell.

j05son
01-11-2009, 03:56 AM
As unlikely as I think it is, the Canton Repository printed an article about Pioli still being in the GM race.

http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/browns/x512381697/Dont-rule-out-Pioli-as-Browns-GM-yet

Flippityskip91
01-12-2009, 09:33 AM
Don't know if anyone else has read it yet, but the ravens are blocking us from Kokinis again. The interview was supposed to be yesterday but they can do that as long as they're in the playoffs.

I'm hoping that Lerner hatches a brain wave and at least interviews a few other people this week. There are some decent options who have had success before.

I think in the Plain Dealer a few days ago they mentioned that we had "expressed interest" in Charlie Casserly(everyone here knows who he is) and Chris Polian(Bill Polian's son).

keylime_5
01-12-2009, 02:47 PM
Kokinis interviewed with the Browns yesterday, but we can't hire him until they lose. Just like the Romeo Crennel situation in 2005, we interviewed him during the playoffs, but he didn't get offered the job until right after the Patriots won the superbowl. So when Baltimore loses (to pittsburgh hopefully) look for the hiring soon thereafter.

BTW the only way I might root for Baltimore to win the superbowl is if Flacco gets hurt and Troy Smith is the starting QB. Even then I probably might not want them to win.

wonderbredd24
01-12-2009, 06:04 PM
BTW the only way I might root for Baltimore to win the superbowl is if Flacco gets hurt and Troy Smith is the starting QB. Even then I probably might not want them to win.

Go Cardinals

Flippityskip91
01-12-2009, 10:25 PM
I'll be rooting for the Eagles for one reason. Mcnabb takes way too much crap all the time and he deserves a championship.

Anyways, I read about the interview a couple minutes ago. And you are correct, I would be expecting him to be hired pretty much as soon as Baltimore loses.

JSimmsy21
01-13-2009, 09:40 PM
I'll be rooting for the Eagles for one reason. Mcnabb takes way too much crap all the time and he deserves a championship.

Anyways, I read about the interview a couple minutes ago. And you are correct, I would be expecting him to be hired pretty much as soon as Baltimore loses.

I used to think the same thing towards McNabb. Ever since he made that comment about black QB's take more heat that whites do, though, I lost a lot of respect for him. He just got an excuse for everything.

Flippityskip91
01-14-2009, 09:08 AM
I used to think the same thing towards McNabb. Ever since he made that comment about black QB's take more heat that whites do, though, I lost a lot of respect for him. He just got an excuse for everything.

Ah well, I don't really care about that whole black/white thing. I mean, if that's an issue to him then that's really too bad. Still think he deserves to win the big one before he's done.

wonderbredd24
01-15-2009, 09:51 AM
so we added Bryan Cox as our DLine coach... we appear to be headed for a psychotic defensive coaching staff with Ryan and Cox so far.

Flippityskip91
01-15-2009, 03:32 PM
so we added Bryan Cox as our DLine coach... we appear to be headed for a psychotic defensive coaching staff with Ryan and Cox so far.

I feel like I should know who that is but I'm drawing a blank. Would you care to refresh my seemingly nonexistant memory?

wonderbredd24
01-15-2009, 04:01 PM
I feel like I should know who that is but I'm drawing a blank. Would you care to refresh my seemingly nonexistant memory?

Bryan Cox is most famous for flicking everyone off in Ralph Wilson stadium with both hands.

He received a good number of fines throughout his NFL career.

He was a Bill Belichick player. He wasn't flashy... he just liked to hit people.

CantStopGregJones
01-18-2009, 04:49 AM
This is hands down the best coaching staff Cleveland has had since coming back into the leauge. We've always had garbage coordinators and even more pathetic position coaches...now its changing hahaha

BrownsTown
01-18-2009, 09:23 AM
This is hands down the best coaching staff Cleveland has had since coming back into the leauge. We've always had garbage coordinators and even more pathetic position coaches...now its changing hahaha

Agreed. No hiring has really struck me as bad. Now lets hope they don't screw it up with a bad GM.

keylime_5
01-18-2009, 08:31 PM
I think the key is all the experience. Mangini is coming off a head coaching job and is bringing a lot of his people with him in new york and from his new england days. I like the Rob Ryan hire a lot, he and Eric are gonna turn around the defense IMO.

Flippityskip91
02-03-2009, 10:17 AM
Just read something from the canton repository, via rotoworld, about Mangini. It basically said that he's Napolean, he's ostracized Rogers, and everyone in Cleveland in miserable. That's the basic run-down. I don't know if it's true obviously, but I'll just say I hope it's not. The last thing we need is for our best player to get pissed.

wonderbredd24
02-03-2009, 12:26 PM
First, the guy who wrote it is a Ravens reporter I'm told

Second, how can anyone make any lasting judgements already as at least 90% of the players are on vacation or whatever

Flippityskip91
02-03-2009, 12:33 PM
First, the guy who wrote it is a Ravens reporter I'm told

Second, how can anyone make any lasting judgements already as at least 90% of the players are on vacation or whatever

So pretty much it's just bad press trying to spread dissent among fans? Very well could be. I was just putting it up here because I don't know what anyone else has heard on here.

wonderbredd24
02-03-2009, 12:54 PM
I suppose if he's right, as long as Mangini doesn't try to invade Russia, especially in winter, the Browns should do just fine

Flippityskip91
02-03-2009, 03:20 PM
I suppose if he's right, as long as Mangini doesn't try to invade Russia, especially in winter, the Browns should do just fine

We have enough trouble invading opposing teams backfields. I don't really think we'd get close to Russia if we tried. I'm sure it'll turn out okay

j05son
02-09-2009, 06:40 PM
From the NFL subforum encase some of you missed it.

Browns | Four players waived
Mon, 09 Feb 2009 14:55:47 -0800

Zac Jackson, of ClevelandBrowns.com, reports the Cleveland Browns have waived QB Bruce Gradkowski, P Mike Dragosavich, PK Jason Reda and OT Eric Young.

Browns | Three players contracts' terminated
Mon, 09 Feb 2009 15:10:40 -0800

Zac Jackson, of ClevelandBrowns.com, reports the Cleveland Browns have terminated the contract of QB Ken Dorsey, LB Antwan Peek and CB Terry Cousin.

I hope we bring Dorsey back.

Brown Leader
02-09-2009, 10:28 PM
Hello fellow Browns fans-new member.

I will say-Rogers will not find 2 coaches more in his corner than Rac and Tucker. I kind of feared that a new hard ass coach would send Shaun back to his under achieving days-hope that's not true.

j05son- I hope we bring Dorsey back.

You're joking. Or you mean as coach?



Zac Jackson, of ClevelandBrowns.com, reports the Cleveland Browns have waived QB Bruce Gradkowski, P Mike Dragosavich, PK Jason Reda and OT Eric Young.

Zac Jackson, of ClevelandBrowns.com, reports the Cleveland Browns have terminated the contract of QB Ken Dorsey, LB Antwan Peek and CB Terry Cousin.

So far so good. No complaints.

Flippityskip91
02-10-2009, 09:39 AM
I don't really think there's much of a chance that Dorsey comes back. He was here as a mentor for Quinn while Chud was around because he knew that offense inside out. There's no telling how well he'd know Daboll's offense.

j05son
02-10-2009, 11:01 AM
Dorsey is a third string quarterback. There isn't much that's required of him. He's a mentor to Quinn and can bring a lot to the table in his intangibles that he can't bring to the field in terms of ability or skill. He shouldn't be a big price tag either. Why not have a third string QB that your starter admires/befriends and have them going over playbooks and all. The OC might have changed and the playbook, but I will bet the preparation won't.

Flippityskip91
02-10-2009, 12:17 PM
Dorsey is a third string quarterback. There isn't much that's required of him. He's a mentor to Quinn and can bring a lot to the table in his intangibles that he can't bring to the field in terms of ability or skill. He shouldn't be a big price tag either. Why not have a third string QB that your starter admires/befriends and have them going over playbooks and all. The OC might have changed and the playbook, but I will bet the preparation won't.

This is true, and your 3rd string QB should never really end up on the field. However, with everything going around about Mangini being some ultimate disciplinarian, I don't know that he's going to care about who's friends with who.

Personally I think it would be beneficial to Quinn because the two of them have shown that they work well together...and Dorsey has always been an asset when it comes to preparation. Nonetheless, I still don't think it's likely he'll be back.

Brown Leader
02-10-2009, 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by j05son
Dorsey is a third string quarterback. There isn't much that's required of him. He's a mentor to Quinn and can bring a lot to the table in his intangibles that he can't bring to the field in terms of ability or skill.

Even 3rd string have to be able to play(certainly in practice)-Dorsey proved he's not capable of that. As far as mentoring and intangibles-Brady's now in his 3rd season so all of that is over rated-preparation is/always been a strong suit reportedly about Quinn. Personally I think Dorsey's embarrassing play helped contribute to Savage's firing-that he was paying a guy as bad as Dorsey(play wise) to be on the Browns.

BrownsTown
02-10-2009, 05:21 PM
A big part of this offseason I think will be trying to find a competent backup QB, one that will at least allow the Browns to function if Quinn goes down. Assuming DA is traded of course.

wonderbredd24
02-11-2009, 04:52 PM
A big part of this offseason I think will be trying to find a competent backup QB, one that will at least allow the Browns to function if Quinn goes down. Assuming DA is traded of course.

I cannot fathom a scenario where Anderon stays.

If for no other reason, the offense Daboll wants to run hass no place for a QB like Anderson. It's based on timing and accuracy; 2 area in which Derek has displayed almost no ability

keylime_5
02-13-2009, 05:24 PM
Supply and demand are in our favor regarding DA too. Only Stafford and Sanchez are viewed as franchise QB prospects, and only starting QBs available via trade are Cassel and Anderson. Cassel's price is probably a 1st and a 3rd, but DA can be had for a 2nd or two 3rd rounders it looks like.....and lots of teams need a QB: Carolina, Kansas City, St.Louis, Detroit, Minnesota, NYJets, San Francisco, Seattle, etc.

Iamcanadian
02-14-2009, 11:15 AM
I think Anderson could still fetch a 1st rounder. Just too many teams who are contenders but lack a QB. A bidding war can only bring in more value for him.
The Jets in particular look like they'd be very interested. Of course, it could be embarrassing if Anderson leads them to the playoffs while we still have problems winning 6 or 7 games.

JSimmsy21
02-14-2009, 03:29 PM
i believe the current asking price for DA is a 2nd or two 3rds.

Brown Leader
02-15-2009, 01:03 PM
Picture this: Maby I'm an optimist but DA and an 010' 1st or 2nd or 09' 2nd for Peppers looks doable. Panthers OC Davidson has coached DA and Derek knows Davidson's offense. DA could have more success with a run heavy offense and Carolina is going NOWHERE with Delhome. DA wouldn't necessarily have to put up Pro Bowl numbers in the Panther offense. OLB is Browns #1 need and might pay a steep price to get an elite player. Have no idea about the cost/money analysis but.....

fear the elf
02-18-2009, 09:47 AM
i'm not the most up to date on the panthers situation, but i haven't heard any reports that they are unhappy with delhomme. i know he bombed in the playoffs, but he's still a solid qb and has been solid for them for quite a while now, not to mention, he and steve smith seem to be on the same page at all times. i just don't see the desire to bring in DA.

btw, hi, i've been lurking on these forums for a long time, and i figured it was time to start posting. we need more browns fans on this site.

kalbears13
02-19-2009, 03:08 AM
i'm not the most up to date on the panthers situation, but i haven't heard any reports that they are unhappy with delhomme. i know he bombed in the playoffs, but he's still a solid qb and has been solid for them for quite a while now, not to mention, he and steve smith seem to be on the same page at all times. i just don't see the desire to bring in DA.

btw, hi, i've been lurking on these forums for a long time, and i figured it was time to start posting. we need more browns fans on this site.

Welcome, there used to be more and the forum used to be pretty busy but it has been quiet lately.

j05son
02-19-2009, 03:51 AM
It'll start picking up here shortly. It always does before the draft and with a top pick, we'll have some new people or some lurkers decided to join up and post -- we need it so if you do lurk, join up and post!

Brown Leader
02-19-2009, 12:35 PM
i'm not the most up to date on the panthers situation, but i haven't heard any reports that they are unhappy with delhomme. i know he bombed in the playoffs, but he's still a solid qb and has been solid for them for quite a while now, not to mention, he and steve smith seem to be on the same page at all times. i just don't see the desire to bring in DA.

btw, hi, i've been lurking on these forums for a long time, and i figured it was time to start posting. we need more browns fans on this site.

Hello fte
I think the Panthers have been looking for an upgrade for at least two seasons-Jake was solid but has been injured an inconsistent since before this past season. I'm not saying Anderson is that much of an upgrade but it's an opportunity for him and them. It gives them something to work with for Peppers. They must have a desire to look at somebody at the QB position other than Delhomme. Yeah I guess throwing up prayers and Smith coming down with them is being on the same page. lol.

wonderbredd24
02-19-2009, 12:51 PM
Rumors of a Derek Anderson-to-Tampa trade are reportedly "gaining steam" at the Combine and "word is" Cleveland would take a third-round pick for him.

The Bucs in no way promised Luke McCown a starting job and ideally will add competition. A change of scenery also couldn't hurt Anderson. D.A. could go directly on the trade block after his guaranteed $5M roster bonus is paid on March 15. He can't be traded before then barring a redone contract.
Source: Tampa Tribune

If this is somehow the case, I hope they squeeze a 6th or 7th out of them as well. We need the picks

CantStopGregJones
02-19-2009, 02:09 PM
It'll start picking up here shortly. It always does before the draft and with a top pick, we'll have some new people or some lurkers decided to join up and post -- we need it so if you do lurk, join up and post!

Why? Join a board full of arrogant know it all jerks who act better than everyone...no thanks. Honestly I don't even know why I'm here. The forums outside of this one are exactly as I just stated and this one has like 3 browns fans...its no fun when no one is talking Browns. You're better off joining an all Browns board.

wonderbredd24
02-19-2009, 02:29 PM
Why? Join a board full of arrogant know it all jerks who act better than everyone...no thanks. Honestly I don't even know why I'm here. The forums outside of this one are exactly as I just stated and this one has like 3 browns fans...its no fun when no one is talking Browns. You're better off joining an all Browns board.

If anyone's interested in one of those, toss me a PM and I'll give you the link to the board I prefer

djp
02-19-2009, 02:44 PM
hey guys, in the Forum Mock I signed Igor Olshansky, Mike Adams, Kyle Kosier (for line depth), and Javon Walker (2 year deal).

Traded down to #8 and picked up an extra third and drafted Everette Brown.

Thoughts so far?

CantStopGregJones
02-19-2009, 02:53 PM
hey guys, in the Forum Mock I signed Igor Olshansky, Mike Adams, Kyle Kosier (for line depth), and Javon Walker (2 year deal).

Traded down to #8 and picked up an extra third and drafted Everette Brown.

Thoughts so far?

Sounds excellent as in A. I would change Brown to Maybin, but that is just my personal preference. I just see major bust in Brown. With Maybin I'd give you an A+++

wonderbredd24
02-19-2009, 03:27 PM
Sounds excellent as in A. I would change Brown to Maybin, but that is just my personal preference. I just see major bust in Brown. With Maybin I'd give you an A+++

Really? I see it going completely the other way with Everette Brown between his explosive first step and his devastating spin move.

I think Orakpo is the one likely to be a huge bust.

I'm not sure what to think of Maybin. Maurice Evans terrifies me

j05son
02-19-2009, 04:01 PM
Why? Join a board full of arrogant know it all jerks who act better than everyone...no thanks. Honestly I don't even know why I'm here. The forums outside of this one are exactly as I just stated and this one has like 3 browns fans...its no fun when no one is talking Browns. You're better off joining an all Browns board.

To every man their own. I stick to this board more so then others because of the users and the general knowledge of a select few.

djp
02-19-2009, 04:28 PM
I hope there is a decent ILB available in round 2 or 3. Same with corner.

Any good fits you feel in the 2nd round at ILB? Beckwith maybe?

CantStopGregJones
02-19-2009, 05:22 PM
I hope there is a decent ILB available in round 2 or 3. Same with corner.

Any good fits you feel in the 2nd round at ILB? Beckwith maybe?

Please no. He's slower and undersized ala D'Qwell Jackson. We need a machine type know. How about Frantz Joseph in the 3rd instead.

CantStopGregJones
02-19-2009, 05:23 PM
Really? I see it going completely the other way with Everette Brown between his explosive first step and his devastating spin move.

I think Orakpo is the one likely to be a huge bust.

I'm not sure what to think of Maybin. Maurice Evans terrifies me

Yeah its hard to tell. No one knows. Its just a feeling I have nothing scientific about it. Brown is a horrible horrible horrible wrap up tackler though. I don't like that much at all.

CantStopGregJones
02-19-2009, 05:24 PM
To every man their own. I stick to this board more so then others because of the users and the general knowledge of a select few.

I wasn't talking about in the Browns forum. I'm talking about those in the other forums. Scott Wright included. He's a tool.

Brown Leader
02-19-2009, 06:57 PM
Why? Join a board full of arrogant know it all jerks who act better than everyone...no thanks. Honestly I don't even know why I'm here. The forums outside of this one are exactly as I just stated and this one has like 3 browns fans...its no fun when no one is talking Browns. You're better off joining an all Browns board.

I am not a jerk. LOL
I like hearing what other diehards have to say about their team and NFL in general. Tools are everywhere. You just ignore what's unnecessary.

djp hey guys, in the Forum Mock I signed Igor Olshansky, Mike Adams, Kyle Kosier (for line depth), and Javon Walker (2 year deal).

Traded down to #8 and picked up an extra third and drafted Everette Brown.

Thoughts so far?

It's looking right now like Maybin is being talked up as a better prospect than Brown. I'm finding that hard to belive but It's hard to tell for a fan because there's so little tape available on Maybin and I didn't catch hardly any PSU games.
Trading down would be cool but I'm starting to think Raji is a target.
Signing Javon? doesn't he have a massive contract? Olhansky, Adams (a no brainer) and Kosier sound cool.

Personally I was thinking about S Mcgowen from the Bears and WR Clayton from the Bucs.

Rumors of a Derek Anderson-to-Tampa trade

Sounds good. A few months ago I thought the best we'd get was a 4th rounder.

djp
02-19-2009, 10:58 PM
I am not a jerk. LOL
I like hearing what other diehards have to say about their team and NFL in general. Tools are everywhere. You just ignore what's unnecessary.

djp

It's looking right now like Maybin is being talked up as a better prospect than Brown. I'm finding that hard to belive but It's hard to tell for a fan because there's so little tape available on Maybin and I didn't catch hardly any PSU games.
Trading down would be cool but I'm starting to think Raji is a target.
Signing Javon? doesn't he have a massive contract? Olhansky, Adams (a no brainer) and Kosier sound cool.

Personally I was thinking about S Mcgowen from the Bears and WR Clayton from the Bucs.

Rumors of a Derek Anderson-to-Tampa trade

Sounds good. A few months ago I thought the best we'd get was a 4th rounder.

Walker was released. I didn't trade for him. 2 year deal, incentives based.

Just took Shady McCoy with the 2nd round pick. All the corners went right before me.

keylime_5
02-20-2009, 01:34 PM
plain dealer says Mangini is interested in FA RB Derrick Ward from the Giants. I think he'd be a hot commodity if he wasn't 28 years old...but the catch is that he's only been in the league for 5 years and has never had a 200 carry season or been anything but a backup - lots of mileage on those tires. Like Priest Holmes I could see him being effective longer than usual for a RB (age 33 or 34 instead of 30).

We're expected to release Jamal Lewis eventually, Derrick is a good back who had 1000+ yards last season as Brandon Jacobs' backup/spell. Not much talk about the fact that new york had two different 1000 yard rushers last year.

CantStopGregJones
02-20-2009, 01:57 PM
Knowshon Moreno stole my heart today weighing in at 217. If Aaron Curry is off the board then I would reach a tad for Moreno with the #5 overall pick. I would rank Moreno 8-15 range, so its not a huge reach.

kalbears13
02-20-2009, 03:01 PM
I really like Shonn Greene. He breaks a lot of tackles and he runs hard. I think he would be a great compliment to Jerome Harrison.

wonderbredd24
02-20-2009, 03:04 PM
Reaching for a running back in this draft does not make sense to me. Running Backs are going to fall because so many teams got them last year.

Personally, I like the idea of LeSean McCoy in the 2nd or Rashad Jennings in the 4th

keylime_5
02-20-2009, 03:13 PM
McCoy or Brown in the 2nd if we want to draft a starting runningback. The 5th pick HAS to be defense. If we get a back somewhere in the 1st (trade up/down or whatever) it must be Beanie. 6-1/235/4.4 doesn't come around very often, and the so-called "injury issues" with him are extremely overblown. I like Knowshon but his skillset is a dime a dozen in this league.

Brown Leader
02-20-2009, 04:31 PM
Knowshon Moreno stole my heart today weighing in at 217. If Aaron Curry is off the board then I would reach a tad for Moreno with the #5 overall pick. I would rank Moreno 8-15 range, so its not a huge reach.

I think Moreno is OROY and would help the Browns more than any other rookie next season. If Curry is off the board I think it should be considered.

keylime 5
I like Knowshon but his skillset is a dime a dozen in this league.

Maby your right. Maby Harrison is already the guy-but if Moreno stays healthy he's a perennial Pro Bowler. I don't think going defense is a lock for our 1st rd choice after setting the NFL record for offense futility. That embarrassment more than anything else got RAC and Savage canned. with the depth at 34 OLB and if we get a 3rd for Anderson we could get quality OLB in the 2nd and 3rd like Sintim/Matthews and Cody Brown.

Brown Leader
02-20-2009, 04:47 PM
I wonder if weighing in at 217 and running a sub 4.5 will make Moreno a consensus top 10?

6-1/235/4.4 doesn't come around very often

I agree but neither does the passion that Moreno plays with.

Iamcanadian
02-21-2009, 12:02 AM
I've been hearing Maybin and Moreno talked up quite a bit lately. Either could be top 10 guys before it is all said and done.

keylime_5
02-21-2009, 10:22 AM
I don't think any backs will go top ten, though Beanie and Knowshon are definitely that good. Maybin I could see going that high based on his really really high potential and the fact that he is a pass rusher; pass rushers always go higher than they should.

D-Unit
02-23-2009, 01:37 PM
What's going on with Sean Jones? Is he an UFA?

Flippityskip91
02-23-2009, 03:43 PM
What's going on with Sean Jones? Is he an UFA?

Yes he is. They (Kokinis/Mangini) said that they have no problems letting all 13 of our ufas test the market. Jones probably won't be back unless he takes less money than he's looking for. Although I thought Kokinis was supposed to meet with his agent at the combine, not sure.

keylime_5
02-23-2009, 03:44 PM
Sounds like they're gonna try hard to resign Sean Jones before he signs with another team. I don't think they'll overpay for him, but he was our best defensive player two years ago despite having a crappy, injury-plagued 2008.

Flippityskip91
02-23-2009, 03:51 PM
Sounds like they're gonna try hard to resign Sean Jones before he signs with another team. I don't think they'll overpay for him, but he was our best defensive player two years ago despite having a crappy, injury-plagued 2008.

It certainly wouldn't hurt the defense to have one less hole to fill. I no longer look at him as a player on the rise, but he's still a playmaker, and he's fantastic in run support. He just needs to get healthy.

Brown Leader
02-23-2009, 06:03 PM
It certainly wouldn't hurt the defense to have one less hole to fill. I no longer look at him as a player on the rise, but he's still a playmaker, and he's fantastic in run support. He just needs to get healthy.

ULP!
Yes he's the glue to our steller run defense.

No honestly I think Jones is a solid starter and good tackler but his weakness is he's not real physical-he's more of a FS than an in box-extra LB SS-the kind the good 34 teams seem to need. For a fair price I'd like to see him stay but I wouldn't mind a more physical thumping SS like say McGowen FA from the Bears.

Flippityskip91
02-24-2009, 11:03 AM
ULP!
Yes he's the glue to our steller run defense.

When used in run support, which isn't often, he's effective. Your safeties shouldn't be the reason for you run D ranking being bad. If you're relying on a SS for it then what is the front 7 doing?

He was used poorly all last season. Wimbley was also used poorly last season. Jones would look a whole lot better with a coaching staff that knew what they were doing, as would Wimbley. Go back to 2007, regardless of what the rest of the defense was doing, and you can see Jones doing very well up in run support. The one thing I don't understand with him is why he can't cover TEs.

Anyways, your right. For a fair price, he should come back. We've got enough other needs that we shouldn't be creating more problems for ourselves.

keylime_5
02-24-2009, 11:43 AM
I get the feeling that Malcolm Jenkins at #5 is not gonna happen. I think despite everything else most teams feel he will be a safety eventually or a cover 2 corner - which is fine he'll probably still be a top 10 pick - but he has 4.5 speed and his man-to-man skills are in question enough so to keep him out of the conversation. I think Orakpo and Curry and Crabtree seem like more viable candidates. I think we'll add corner depth in FA anyway.

Speaking of FA, looks like we're the odds on favorites for veteran Eric Barton. I wonder if we'll break the bank for a big namer this year like we've done the last few years...maybe Jason Brown, TJ Houshmandzadeh, or someone like that. I kinda hope we don't spend as much in FA as we have in the past; build through the draft

JSimmsy21
02-24-2009, 12:37 PM
Speaking of FA, looks like we're the odds on favorites for veteran Eric Barton. I wonder if we'll break the bank for a big namer this year like we've done the last few years...maybe Jason Brown, TJ Houshmandzadeh, or someone like that. I kinda hope we don't spend as much in FA as we have in the past; build through the draft

I'm hoping for Barton. Mangini did say that if DQ had someone next to him with at least average speed, it would greatly help him. Barton is definitely on the decline of his career, but he's an upgrade over Davis. Plus, I'm a big fan of Brandon Spikes. wishing for next year.

The only "big" FA signing I think we might see is Jason Brown. The Kokinis connection makes it seem like the only logical one. Also, Kokinis said for OL players he looks to see how smart they are and their physical size. He knows all about Brown.

Flippityskip91
02-24-2009, 02:30 PM
Barton is on the downside of his career, but he would be solid next to Jackson...and his asking price certainly won't be ludicrous. I really hope that we just stick to the draft. Maybe bring in a few veterans to help the youngsters, but we've been active in FA the past few years and it hasn't worked.

wonderbredd24
02-24-2009, 03:06 PM
The issue next to Jackson isn't speed... they need someone who can actually fight through trash and make plays like Aaron Curry.

keylime_5
02-24-2009, 06:45 PM
Barton won't make nearly as many mental mistakes as Dra Davis did, and he can be a veteran leader on defense like McGinest was for Crennel. I like the possibilty of signing Barton not only for that reason, but because it fills a big hole at LILB and leaves to door open for drafting Curry who will be our long term answer at LILB. Curry+Jackson at ILB would be nasty. Curry could even play LOLB for the first couple years of his career until Barton leaves.

Jason Brown I could dig, he would really help the offensive line and it would spite the ravens too. He's gonna ask for Faneca money, which is okay if we only sign one big name and a few smaller names/role players like Barton and DB depth/RB depth/WR depth.

Brown Leader
02-25-2009, 07:10 PM
How do you piss off your best player from the jump? We're not even in spring practices yet.
So much for setting a hard ass/more disciplined example-now he's got to patch this up. Rogers is a smart vet-whatever beef he has it's probably legit-not as simple as "he didn't talk to me".

My guess is Gini's trying to overcompensate for RAC's perceived softness-plus he's trying to make up for his NYJ debacle. How smart is it as one of your first moves to fire a personal friend of Shaun's and the one who was responsible for making his transition to a new team a good one. Then afterward give the pro bowler the cold shoulder until it becomes public that he's not happy with you and the new regime.
And this talk of not trading DA? I'm displeased.

wonderbredd24
02-25-2009, 08:06 PM
The talk of not trading Anderson is a smoke screen. He has no place in Daboll's offense

This Shaun Rogers thing is about money no matter what else you hear. The rumors of Haynesworth getting $100 million and $15 million a year have pissed off Rogers because he's one of the best in the league. Maybe Mangini rubbed him the wrong way, but that's just an excuse.

Brown Leader
02-25-2009, 08:44 PM
The talk of not trading Anderson is a smoke screen. He has no place in Daboll's offense

This Shaun Rogers thing is about money no matter what else you hear. The rumors of Haynesworth getting $100 million and $15 million a year have pissed off Rogers because he's one of the best in the league. Maybe Mangini rubbed him the wrong way, but that's just an excuse.

Hope your right about all that.
In response to your mock comment about Winslow. This guy is going to play until he's crippled and always give 110-what's wrong with that? Take eleven or 22 with his mentality and you've got a dynasty. His biggest weakness-blocking-can be balanced this off season by signing Kleinsasser to alternate or play 2 TE on occasion. First sub-par season (staph-ankle) and now you want to ship him out? I'll have to wait and see how he and Quinn play together-Quinn's style suits him more than scattershot Anderson's.

wonderbredd24
02-25-2009, 08:48 PM
Hope your right about all that.
In response to your mock comment about Winslow. This guy is going to play until he's crippled and always give 110-what's wrong with that? Take eleven or 22 with his mentality and you've got a dynasty. His biggest weakness-blocking-can be balanced this off season by signing Kleinsasser to alternate or play 2 TE on occasion. First sub-par season (staph-ankle) and now you want to ship him out? I'll have to wait and see how he and Quinn play together-Quinn's style suits him more than scattershot Anderson's.

Winslow's done in Cleveland. Mark it down.

keylime_5
02-25-2009, 09:34 PM
mmmmm.....I think Winslow will be a Brown in 2009 from what I've heard. He's a team player despite being a bit mouthy and emotional (sometimes immature), and we'll need him badly on offense this year. Edwards is the one who has cancerous potential, but they aren't gonna trade him this year, probably won't even think about it anymore.

wonderbredd24
02-25-2009, 09:50 PM
His being traded will have nothing to do with his attitude. It has everything to do with the fact that he's playing on borrowed time and the fact he won't be here for a championship run. They need to move him now while he has some value left.

BrownsTown
02-25-2009, 10:23 PM
Ugh, Shaun Rogers could be on his way out. Mangini will find a way to drive out all the players he doesn't like. He god damn better produce results.

kalbears13
02-25-2009, 10:29 PM
I hope Winslow stays because Quinn is going to need him. Quinn isn't going to have a reliable receiver if he goes unless Jurevicius is healthy.

I really hope the stuff about not being so hot about Quinn and that they want a battle in training camp is just a rumor to increase Anderson's trade value.

Brown Leader
02-28-2009, 08:23 AM
Winslow's done in Cleveland. Mark it down.

wonderbredd24=nostradamus

kalbears13
02-28-2009, 01:24 PM
wonderbredd24=nostradamus

Holy cow I totally forgot about that. Nice job wonderbredd.

JSimmsy21
02-28-2009, 10:18 PM
Winslow's done in Cleveland. Mark it down.

so what else you got for us MR. WIZARD!?!?!?!?!?

kalbears13
02-28-2009, 10:31 PM
so what else you got for us MR. WIZARD!?!?!?!?!?

PLZ say Superbowl Win...

wonderbredd24
03-01-2009, 11:09 AM
so what else you got for us MR. WIZARD!?!?!?!?!?

Though I could see it happening, I see no reason to trade Braylon Edwards right now.

The money on his contract isn't an issue.

He's got what essentially amounts to a one year audition for the new regime. If they like him and he likes them, they work out an extension. If not, franchise him and find him a home next year.

It's a contract year, so I would expect him to be much closer to '07 numbers than '08 which should up his value if they decide to move him.

Plus, if they do trade him, Quinn has... Syndric Steptoe, Paul Hubbard, and Martin Rucker to throw to. I'd rather not have his #1 receiver be a draft pick or a free agent like Coles. If they have Edwards, it takes some pressure off a draft pick so they can develop quicker.

Like I said, it could happen, but it just doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, I would not be surprised if Derek Anderson follows Kellen Winslow to Tampa

Iamcanadian
03-01-2009, 12:15 PM
Though I could see it happening, I see no reason to trade Braylon Edwards right now.

The money on his contract isn't an issue.

He's got what essentially amounts to a one year audition for the new regime. If they like him and he likes them, they work out an extension. If not, franchise him and find him a home next year.

It's a contract year, so I would expect him to be much closer to '07 numbers than '08 which should up his value if they decide to move him.

Plus, if they do trade him, Quinn has... Syndric Steptoe, Paul Hubbard, and Martin Rucker to throw to. I'd rather not have his #1 receiver be a draft pick or a free agent like Coles. If they have Edwards, it takes some pressure off a draft pick so they can develop quicker.


Good stuff but let's hope he rebounds otherwise the team is practically back to square one on offense.

Like I said, it could happen, but it just doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, I would not be surprised if Derek Anderson follows Kellen Winslow to Tampa


Good stuff but let's hope he rebounds otherwise the team is practically back to square one on offense.

CantStopGregJones
03-01-2009, 10:17 PM
Sign:
James Butler
JaBari Greer
Igor Olshansky
Khalif Barnes
Kevin Burnett
David Bowens
C.J. Mosley
Patrick Ramsey

please someone anytime soon. I like the cheep method, but do it already...

TRich28
03-02-2009, 01:34 AM
Ideal Browns Offseason (Translation: Not going to happen, but can dream):

Trades:
QB Derek Anderson & DT Shaun Smith to Tampa Bay for the Bucs' 1st round pick (maybe the Browns throw in a late round pick or 2010 mid round pick). This would give the Bucs another QB and a big DT to add to their line.

WR Braylon Edwards to NY Giants for OLB Mathias Kiwanuka and 2nd round pick. Complimentary OLB to Wimbley and get rid of a player who doesn't really seem to want to be in Cleveland.

Browns trade their higher 2nd round pick to Dallas for LB Bobby Carpenter, the Cowboys' 2nd and 5th round picks. Get some depth at LB, someone to compete with Leon Williams and/or a free agent/draft pick.

Browns trade their higher 1st round pick to Denver for TE Tony Scheffler, Denver's 1st and 3rd round picks. Get a TE to go with Rucker and Heiden to replace Winslow.

For the draft, the Browns would have:
2 1st round picks: #12 (from DEN) & #19 (from TB)
3 2nd round picks: from DAL, TB & NYG
1 3rd round pick: from DEN
1 4th round pick: original CLE pick
1 5th round pick: from DAL
1 6th round pick: original CLE pick
0 7th round pick: traded to MIA

That number of 2nd round picks would allow flexibility in case a player starts dropping in the 1st or early 2nd, or they could trade down and get some more 3rd or 4th round picks for more depth. With #12 and #19 in the 1st, they could get Vontae Davis or Malcolm Jenkins (if he falls) at 12 and Chris Wells or Knowshon Moreno at 19.

Free Agents to Sign:
CB Jabari Greer/Bryant McFadden/Shawn Springs/Leigh Bodden/Phillip Buchanon/Ron Bartell
- Greer and McFadden would take a lot more to sign (longer contract for more money) than Springs or Bodden, and Springs or Bodden would work as a veteran presence with Wright for a couple of years and then draft a CB to play behind them for a year or two. My choice would be Springs, because he is still a solid corner and could move to S in a year or two.

LB Eric Barton/Kevin Burnett/Paris Lenon
- May not actually need any of these players if the Browns acquired Carpenter, because then the would have D'Qwell Jackson, Leon Williams, Beau Bell and Carpenter, but adding one of them wouldn't hurt. Barton would probably be the best choice of those three.

WR Laveranues Coles/Ronald Curry/Devery Henderson/Joey Galloway
- If Edwards is traded (and if a draft pick or picks & Kiwanuka is the return, I say do it), Coles is a definite must since he knows Mangini's system already. Use one of those 2nd round picks on a WR, pair them with Coles, and have Cribbs, Jurevicius and either Galloway or Curry behind them. Not a great group, but solid.

QB Kyle Boller/Byron Leftwich/Chris Simms/Patrick Ramsey/Damon Huard/Rex Grossman/Gus Frerotte
- Any of them would make up for the loss of Anderson by providing a veteran backup to Quinn. Huard or Frerotte would be good choices, in my opinion, but Kokinis may have some history with Boller from Baltimore.

S Sean Jones/James Butler/Reed Doughty/Brandon McGowan/Jermaine Phillips
- Would love to see the Browns get Phillips from the Bucs, but any one of them on this list would be sufficient.

DE Anthony Weaver/Paul Spicer/Igor Olshansky/Demetric Evans/Shaun Cody/Kevin Carter/Jovan Haye/Ronald Fields
- Any one of these guys would provide depth on the line, and if Shaun Smith were traded, two of them would be ideal. Spicer, Olshansky and/or Haye would be my choices.

OT Khalif Barnes/Daniel Loper/John St.Clair/Ray Willis
- Sign someone to compete with Shaffer at RT. At the very least, you get a dependable backup at both LT and RT. Barnes is good at run support, so he might be good at RG as well.

I know many of these scenarios aren't likely to occur, but it would be nice...

Brown Leader
03-02-2009, 01:10 PM
As good a prospect as Crabtree is I'd rather not see another regime begin by drafting a WR. That was part of the problem with Savage. He didn't give Romeo the building blocks for his defense or offense until Joe Thomas/Shaun Rogers. Granted the Lecharles Bentley thing was not Phil's fault and I suppose he tried with Schaffer/E.Steinbach/C.Smith but getting competitive in the north is probably not going to start until needs are drafted upfront on O (or a new franchise RB) and on the defensive front 7.
Any thoughts on this?

wonderbredd24
03-02-2009, 01:21 PM
Braylon Edwards was basically the only guy who panned out other than Antrel Rolle from that year's Top 10 picks.

If Curry is off the board, Crabtree is far and away the best value in the draft for the Browns, assuming he gets past Seattle

Brown Leader
03-02-2009, 01:38 PM
I'm not sure I'd agree that Edwards has panned out-that's debatable after the 08' crash. Ronnie Brown is probably the best of the top ten and C.Rodgers is not half bad but...this is kind of my point-we passed on Ware and Merriman

CantStopGregJones
03-02-2009, 01:50 PM
No way Aaron Curry falls to us at #5, so now we have to look different routes :(

Sign Kevin Burnettt to play ILB instead then draft B.J. Raji(5) and Connor Barwin(36). Sign nickle Chris Carr and run stopping saftey James Butler...

DE Shaun Rogers
NT B.J. Raji
DE Corey Williams
OLB Connor Barwin
ILB Kevin Burnett
ILB D'Qwell Jackson
OLB Kamerion Wimbley
CB Eric Wright
CB Brandon McDonald
NB Chris Carr
FS Brodney Pool
SS James Butler

I like our chances with that defense.

wonderbredd24
03-02-2009, 02:13 PM
I'm not sure I'd agree that Edwards has panned out-that's debatable after the 08' crash. Ronnie Brown is probably the best of the top ten and C.Rodgers is not half bad but...this is kind of my point-we passed on Ware and Merriman

Revisionist history. They were never in the conversation, so saying we passed on them is absurd.

Brown Leader
03-02-2009, 02:38 PM
Revisionist history. They were never in the conversation, so saying we passed on them is absurd.

your saying they were never considered top ten so passing on them makes no difference?-they went 11 and 12 respectively. I'd say that's close enough to not completely throw them out of the discussion.

keylime_5
03-02-2009, 02:41 PM
Agree with the notion about Crabtree. Since Curry will almost certainly be gone, the only other guy I think we could realistically consider and still get the full value at #5 is Crabtree. I think our draft board could resemble this:
1-Aaron Curry
2-Mike Crabtree
3/4-Either Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo

Or I could be totally wrong, but that's my speculation.


Since you guys were talking about 2005, who do you guys think we would've taken if Braylong Edwards was not there?

wonderbredd24
03-02-2009, 02:48 PM
Agree with the notion about Crabtree. Since Curry will almost certainly be gone, the only other guy I think we could realistically consider and still get the full value at #5 is Crabtree. I think our draft board could resemble this:
1-Aaron Curry
2-Mike Crabtree
3/4-Either Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo

Or I could be totally wrong, but that's my speculation.


Since you guys were talking about 2005, who do you guys think we would've taken if Braylong Edwards was not there?

From what I remember, I think I remember a lot of people pimping Antrel Rolle and a debate between Edwards and Mike Williams.

What sucks for Rolle and the Cardinals is that after they drafted him, they changed the rules on pass coverage which completely screwed him, because he was a big physical corner... so now he's a safety.

Brown Leader
03-02-2009, 02:53 PM
I always thought Antrel was a S not a CB.

But seriously-a WR over a 34 OLB or 34 NT?-it's really no contest.

wonderbredd24
03-02-2009, 03:01 PM
I always thought Antrel was a S not a CB.

But seriously-a WR over a 34OLB?-it's really no contest.

You obviously don't remember how that draft went down.

Dallas taking Ware at their pick was a surprise at the time, especially in front of Merriman

keylime_5
03-02-2009, 03:05 PM
I think we would've taken RB, Ronnie Brown if he was there, if not then probably Benson. Maybe Aaron Rodgers but I don't remember how interested we were in him.

Brown Leader
03-02-2009, 03:14 PM
You obviously don't remember how that draft went down.

Dallas taking Ware at their pick was a surprise at the time, especially in front of Merriman

We had talent evaluators same as them-but I'm getting at the draft philosophy of Savage. Especially in the north you need to be competitive in the trenches. We're far better off now than then but still have glaring holes at OLB and DE.

Point is you learn from mistakes. Braylon was a record setter in 07' but generally if your rebuilding you don't start with a WR. Games are won upfront on both sides of the ball. I'm hoping he returns to form but as is, I don't think he cares to stay. Meriman ought to have been #1 on their board, roids and all.

wonderbredd24
03-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Show me where a DE who was changed to be a LB that early on in the draft before that year... it was unheard of

keylime_5
03-02-2009, 03:19 PM
We had talent evaluators same as them-but I'm getting at the draft philosophy of Savage. Especially in the north you need to be competitive in the trenches. We're far better off now than then but still have glaring holes at OLB and DE.

Point is you learn from mistakes. Braylon was a record setter in 07' but generally if your rebuilding you don't start with a WR. Games are won upfront on both sides of the ball. I'm hoping he returns to form but as is, I don't think he cares to stay. Meriman ought to have been #1 on their board, roids and all.

truth, but if you are picking in the top 5, maybe even the top 10, you should take the BPA with need in mind and draft for need with BPA in mind with all your picks later than the top 5-10. Edwards was a good pick, he was the only guy in the whole top ten to pan out in 2005. It would've been better to take Ware or Merriman, but it makes a lot of sense why they didn't go top 5 at the time. Retrospectively they should've gone a lot higher but there were some questions about both coming out that made them slide to 11 and 12.

Brown Leader
03-02-2009, 03:41 PM
That's true BE was regarded BPA-but Savage's lean was always on a passing offense-that was a mistake.

Certainly now-a 34 OLB or even 34 NT makes more sense than a WR. A WR who is not a top 5 lock due to valid questions.

Suggs is probably the highest DE/LB I can think of recently(#10)-though Peppers (#2) could have always played LB. Who knows? Maby a trade down was possible? Anyways...

Hey if Crab is the pick-then let him go all pro. But I'm not sold and don't want to see us pass potential pro bowl rushers for our 34. This defense is only going to work if we get dominant edge rushers-and it is possible to win without star WR's.

keylime_5
03-02-2009, 04:03 PM
I think there are few who disagree with the notion that we should take a defensive player and get pass rush help over a WR even if it means passing on better value, however the fact that you have to take the hand that's dealt to you sometimes might make that not be the case IMO....

...Edwards has 1 year left on his deal and is a nuisance to say the least and drops too many passes for a guy with his talent and contract. Not only might Braylon be gone one way or another in a year or less, but we have no #2 or #3 WR to fall back on, we have nothing outside of Edwards and if he's gone we're screwed and the development of Quinn might be hindered. With all the first day picks we could get out of DA and/or Edwards trades we could afford to take BPA at 5 and draft for need elsewhere....

...We would like to fix our pass rush, but if Crabtree is there I would have no problems passing on the risky reaches of Brown/Orakpo and then getting a pass rusher at a better value a little later in the first day. Heck, we might get lucky and be able to acquire a proven pass rusher like Kiwanuka for a 2nd round pick and worry less about developing a DE and transitioning him to OLB. I'm 100% behind building from the trenches out, though I'm also behind the organization if they don't think Orakpo/Brown are gonna be special and take Crabtree. It might be important to get some pass rushers, but it's important too to have someone who can make plays in the passing game with Quinn.

Dont get me wrong though, I'm of the opinion that we should draft a pass rusher in round one and even if we trade Braylon we'd be better off taking a guy like Nicks or Britt in round 2 if we're gonna draft a WR at all.

BrownsTown
03-02-2009, 04:49 PM
I don't see Braylon getting moved at all. You're not going to get enough value for him and we know he has the potential to be a top receiver in the league.

keylime_5
03-02-2009, 05:04 PM
I hope we extend him and don't worry about trading him and depleting our WR corps. He's a headcase, but it's rare these days to find a top wideout who isn't to some degree.

wonderbredd24
03-02-2009, 06:04 PM
Personally, I think his situation is perfect.

He's got one year left on his contract. There is a one year audition to see if Mangini and the staff like him, if he likes the staff, etc.

If it works out, get a new deal done.

If it doesn't work out, franchise him and find him a home.

CantStopGregJones
03-05-2009, 03:13 AM
Baltimore apparently only put the low tender on Dawan Landry, so we'd only have to give up a 5th to sign him. I saw we poison pill the bleep out of those scumbags and steal him away for our 4th roudner(we don't have a 5th). He's young and he's a baller.

JSimmsy21
03-05-2009, 10:43 AM
Baltimore apparently only put the low tender on Dawan Landry, so we'd only have to give up a 5th to sign him. I saw we poison pill the bleep out of those scumbags and steal him away for our 4th roudner(we don't have a 5th). He's young and he's a baller.

Didn't he also have some sort of severe neck injury last year?

wonderbredd24
03-05-2009, 10:48 AM
Didn't he also have some sort of severe neck injury last year?

against us if memory serves