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P-L
02-11-2007, 08:34 PM
Alright, we're starting over.

jetsfan3
02-11-2007, 08:38 PM
Alright, we're starting over.

No Postfor the Topic Exists sucks so much.

AZ9er
02-11-2007, 08:52 PM
i love jim brown!!!!!!!!

doingthisinsteadofwork
02-11-2007, 09:07 PM
:lol:

Crow
02-11-2007, 09:16 PM
So...like...wuh happen?

doingthisinsteadofwork
02-11-2007, 09:18 PM
So...like...wuh happen?click on the old Cleveland Discussion thread.

CherryGarcia510
02-11-2007, 09:42 PM
thank god. It was really pissing me off only seeing no posts exist for this topic

diabsoule
02-11-2007, 09:43 PM
So...like...wuh happen?

awesome sig

stl9erfan
02-11-2007, 10:02 PM
so then, refering to the baxter getting cut statement. i think its unlikly. we pay him to much money and his contract is no where near being over. the cap hit would be ridiculous.

Westbourne
02-11-2007, 10:07 PM
so then, refering to the baxter getting cut statement. i think its unlikly. we pay him to much money and his contract is no where near being over. the cap hit would be ridiculous.

Plus he'll be on IR anyways...

No way will he come back next year like he seems to think.

GLAD TO HAVE A BROWNS DISCUSSION AGAIN!

Crow
02-11-2007, 10:08 PM
So...like...wuh happen?click on the old Cleveland Discussion thread.
The Raiders thread does that sometimes when you click on the last page number...or sometimes after you post. Weird.

Westbourne
02-11-2007, 10:11 PM
So...like...wuh happen?click on the old Cleveland Discussion thread.
The Raiders thread does that sometimes when you click on the last page number...or sometimes after you post. Weird.

I PM'ed pats-lions about it. I couldn't get into the Browns thread at all. Pages 1-26 were all off limit, just came up with the no posts exist error for me.

Hopefully it won't happen again, 8)

Cwood8899
02-11-2007, 10:35 PM
Everything was on page 22

GoldenBoy
02-12-2007, 08:20 AM
I was thinking about what Rob Chudzinski has in mind for Cleveland's offense after reading this article: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=6414

Rob Chudzinski:
"I've always been around and been exposed to attacking-style offenses that are built on a balance of run and pass and that utilize the talents of the guys that are part of that offense. Giving those guys a chance to make plays for you in an attacking style is basically what we've talked primarily about."



It's not very specific about what he wants to do with Cleveland's offense next year. I'd like to hear speculation about what style he'll likely gravitate towards and what he may think we should draft to fit his style.

I know he's likely to have Winslow heavily involved since he has been a TE coach.

I wonder if he'll use the FB like an H-Back or if he'll go with a traditional run blocking scheme like San Diego had with Lorenzo Neal.

If we do keep Frye as our starter, what kind of offense would play to Frye's talents?

I'd love to hear opinions!

GoldenBoy
02-12-2007, 08:26 AM
I always find it interesting when people make mock drafts around "perfect scenerios". I'd love to have a guy like Carriker fall to us in the 2nd round, but I don't think thats realistic at all. I've heard fans of other teams talk about wanting him for thier first round pick, so if we want him we'll definately have to trade up... best way to do that is trade down. I would love a draft where we trade down and get Lynch for our RB (or even snag Branch a few picks later) and have some picks to use to trade back up into the end of the first round and get Carriker, or even Staley at OT if his draft stock keeps rising.

Freddy G
02-12-2007, 09:55 AM
I always find it interesting when people make mock drafts around "perfect scenerios". I'd love to have a guy like Carriker fall to us in the 2nd round, but I don't think thats realistic at all. I've heard fans of other teams talk about wanting him for thier first round pick, so if we want him we'll definately have to trade up... best way to do that is trade down. I would love a draft where we trade down and get Lynch for our RB (or even snag Branch a few picks later) and have some picks to use to trade back up into the end of the first round and get Carriker, or even Staley at OT if his draft stock keeps rising.

I've lobbying to take Peterson in the first, then trade up to the early 20s using our 2nd and 3rd round picks to nab Carriker. Probably be hard to find a partner, but the points work.

dlions20
02-12-2007, 10:22 AM
The Browns schedule is out for 2007, not official time or dates yet, but heres the opponents.

ALL THE DIVISIONAL TEAMS plus....
Buffalo Bills
New England Pats
Miami Dolphins
NY Jets
San Fran 49ers
Arizona Cardinals
Seatlle Seahawks
St Loius Rams
Houston Texans
Oakland Raiders

Out of those games if we improve this offseason and play to our potential with little injuries, we could win 7 of those 10 games.

I was happy to see the 49ers, Cardinals, Texans, and Raiders on the list, not because they will still be bad, but they are at our competition level and will help us build comfidence.

dlions20
02-12-2007, 10:25 AM
Also I was watching a highlight of Wimbley on the Browns site and one of his sacks this year was vs. rookie LT Marcus Mcneal. It was impressive to see.

Freddy G
02-12-2007, 11:51 AM
The Browns schedule is out for 2007, not official time or dates yet, but heres the opponents.

ALL THE DIVISIONAL TEAMS plus....
Buffalo Bills
New England Pats
Miami Dolphins
NY Jets
San Fran 49ers
Arizona Cardinals
Seatlle Seahawks
St Loius Rams
Houston Texans
Oakland Raiders

Out of those games if we improve this offseason and play to our potential with little injuries, we could win 7 of those 10 games.

I was happy to see the 49ers, Cardinals, Texans, and Raiders on the list, not because they will still be bad, but they are at our competition level and will help us build comfidence.


Uh Oh, i can only confidently say we will win 2 non divisional games. Its too hard to tell now, but if lined up and played today...it wouldn't be pretty.

stl9erfan
02-12-2007, 03:45 PM
i cant even say who we could beat. every year browns fans are saying "we'll be better next year" "this is our .500 year" "we're on the turn around" this scedule looks tougher than last years already rough schedule. i am glad to see we play that Pats. it'll give us a good idea at how we look at a consistantly good team. also, i'm glad we play the niners, as i am somewhat of a niner fan also.

mcdlaxbonz13
02-12-2007, 08:15 PM
well at least we dont play the super bowl champs this year like we have since weve been back in the league

Fresh
02-13-2007, 07:09 PM
Hey guys I'm new and a huge Brown's fan so I'll be on here quite a bit.

Cwood8899
02-13-2007, 07:46 PM
How come a lot of mock drafts have us getting a CB? To me Cornerback isn't a big need for the browns and should maybe be filled later, if not already done through FA.

ClevelandDave
02-13-2007, 07:54 PM
I've gotta say that I've enjoyed reading all (most) of your stuff, gents. Lots of interesting analysis.

Since you all are way ahead of me on the details, I'd like to get your feedback on a few items. Hopefully, you'll make it all clear to someone who's more overview oriented

1. I read a piece lately that pins Quinn's poor performance in meaningful games on his team. The old "he had to pass all day 'cause they had no D and his O-line had him hurried against strong Ds" take. Do you think that this situation differs much from what he'd have with the Brownies?

2. Are you giving up on Droughns when he had 1,000+ in '05? Do you think he's that degraded in one year or was it the O-line in 2006? With our O-line, would AP have more success than a veteran NFL 1,000 rusher?

3. Arguably, our biggest impact player on D is Wimbley. Even if you don't think so for '06, he will be soon. He's all upside. We grabbed him at 13, right? This draft isn't so weak that it's all in the top 5, is it?

Most of you want the impact O player, Quinn or Petersen but can this O-line be fixed enough in FA and 1 pick per round that they won't be a waste? Bad O-line = Couch/Green....Good O-line = Kosar-Sipe/Mack-Byner

icantackleclaret
02-13-2007, 08:09 PM
Question for everyone: I really wanted to get Lavar last year over Willie but that didn't happen. Any chance we make a offer to him this year and get him a little cheaper? I really think he fits the bill of an OLB in the 3-4 and would have another year to learn from Willie.

Cwood8899
02-13-2007, 08:11 PM
I've gotta say that I've enjoyed reading all (most) of your stuff, gents. Lots of interesting analysis.

Since you all are way ahead of me on the details, I'd like to get your feedback on a few items. Hopefully, you'll make it all clear to someone who's more overview oriented

1. I read a piece lately that pins Quinn's poor performance in meaningful games on his team. The old "he had to pass all day 'cause they had no D and his O-line had him hurried against strong Ds" take. Do you think that this situation differs much from what he'd have with the Brownies?

2. Are you giving up on Droughns when he had 1,000+ in '05? Do you think he's that degraded in one year or was it the O-line in 2006? With our O-line, would AP have more success than a veteran NFL 1,000 rusher?

3. Arguably, our biggest impact player on D is Wimbley. Even if you don't think so for '06, he will be soon. He's all upside. We grabbed him at 13, right? This draft isn't so weak that it's all in the top 5, is it?

Most of you want the impact O player, Quinn or Petersen but can this O-line be fixed enough in FA and 1 pick per round that they won't be a waste? Bad O-line = Couch/Green....Good O-line = Kosar-Sipe/Mack-Byner

Are all those questions rhetorical?

Because if they aren't...
1) No, but just because he didn't fulfill expectations, doesn't mean he's bad.
2) We also need to bring in a new studly back to take over when he's done.
3)More like Top 8

I'm only 16 so I don't really know about the O-Lines of the past so I can't really answer the question.

BTW...How would you feel if we had that draft...\/ \/ \/ \/

And what would you think if we got </\</\</\</\</\</\< /\ helmets as like an alternate every so often.

CherryGarcia510
02-13-2007, 08:36 PM
After thinking about it for a while i think this would be the best scenario for the browns.

1. Raiders-JaMarcus Russel
2. Lions-Adrian Peterson (after they hear Kevin Jones is out until midseason)

If we are sitting at 3 I see the Vikings trading up and choosing Calvin. Now in this trade we concede Joe Thomas to the Bucs or Cardinals but i like our options at 7. We would pick up draft picks for the trade which we could put to good use and we would also get a good player. In this scenario we would most likely have Brady Quinn or Alan Branch to choose from. Im a supporter of Quinn so i would like that but Alan Branch is really growing on me. He is a reach in my opinon at 3, but at 7 i think he would be a great pick. First we need to win the coin toss to get more leverage and if we do win, the trade options open up hopefully giving us more picks while still drafting a big time player in hte 1st

CherryGarcia510
02-13-2007, 08:38 PM
Well i should have done some more research. Now im reading Jones will be back by week 1. But i still like that trade if Peterson is not available for us

stl9erfan
02-13-2007, 10:02 PM
I've gotta say that I've enjoyed reading all (most) of your stuff, gents. Lots of interesting analysis.

Since you all are way ahead of me on the details, I'd like to get your feedback on a few items. Hopefully, you'll make it all clear to someone who's more overview oriented

1. I read a piece lately that pins Quinn's poor performance in meaningful games on his team. The old "he had to pass all day 'cause they had no D and his O-line had him hurried against strong Ds" take. Do you think that this situation differs much from what he'd have with the Brownies?

2. Are you giving up on Droughns when he had 1,000+ in '05? Do you think he's that degraded in one year or was it the O-line in 2006? With our O-line, would AP have more success than a veteran NFL 1,000 rusher?

3. Arguably, our biggest impact player on D is Wimbley. Even if you don't think so for '06, he will be soon. He's all upside. We grabbed him at 13, right? This draft isn't so weak that it's all in the top 5, is it?

Most of you want the impact O player, Quinn or Petersen but can this O-line be fixed enough in FA and 1 pick per round that they won't be a waste? Bad O-line = Couch/Green....Good O-line = Kosar-Sipe/Mack-Byner

1. Quinn's performance in big games is related to his team. he doenst have all-pro talent surounding him. if he were to come to clevelend, the only thing that would hold him back would be our O-line.

2. personally, i'm not giving up on droughns, but AP is to hard to pass on. droughns isnt that good, he just runs ppl over. he'd be a sweet FB. thats about it. AP is better in every aspect except for duriblility, and that is becoming a concern with droughns as he isnt gettin younger.

3. this draft is very top heavy. most will agree to that. and most of us have come to agree that a trade down with the viks would be completly possible.

we really only need two guards. if we got one good one(steinbech/Deilman) and one decent, then we would be to a good start. also, whatch for one of the younger players to take over that other spot(sowells, smith, matua)

Question for everyone: I really wanted to get Lavar last year over Willie but that didn't happen. Any chance we make a offer to him this year and get him a little cheaper? I really think he fits the bill of an OLB in the 3-4 and would have another year to learn from Willie.

i think we would go after adalius thomas first, if anything since he did get drafted by savage. but, IMO, we wont sign another starting LB this year.

Fresh
02-14-2007, 10:16 AM
Most of you want the impact O player, Quinn or Petersen but can this O-line be fixed enough in FA and 1 pick per round that they won't be a waste? Bad O-line = Couch/Green....Good O-line = Kosar-Sipe/Mack-Byner

So why is everyone against taking thomas?

And how do you do the white box thing?

stl9erfan
02-14-2007, 01:30 PM
Most of you want the impact O player, Quinn or Petersen but can this O-line be fixed enough in FA and 1 pick per round that they won't be a waste? Bad O-line = Couch/Green....Good O-line = Kosar-Sipe/Mack-Byner

So why is everyone against taking thomas?

And how do you do the white box thing?

you do the white box thing by clicking "quote" in the upper right hand corner of everyone's post. or, when you start a new post, at the top is say's "qoute" then paste the discussion the click "qoute" again.

i'm against taking thomas b/c we dont need a tackle. we needs guards.

dsnyder038
02-14-2007, 02:06 PM
Yes, this line could be fixed through FA. I think our main problems were LG and RT. Davidson was one of the main reasons why Andruzzi continued to start throughout the length of the season. Enter: Dielman, Steinbach, or Dockery in FA. Center is a question, I believe they will resign Fraley or sign Gurode (spelling). RT is currently Kelly Butler's job. Even though Tucker has told Crennel that he will return in '07, who knows what his health status is, so I expect a draft pick project to legitimately contest Butler for the job. While Butler wasn't terrible, he proved that he isn't really starting material at RT and could use some competition. Overall, our major concerns are at LG and RT. LG can be fixed in FA, and RT can either be fixed in FA (sign tra thomas) or within day one of the draft (ugoh/staley/marten). It will be intersting to see how the center issue develops. I'm sure Bentley won't return in '07, but I wonder what Phil will say at his combine presser anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Kalil is drafted rd2 to fill our center void, thus moving Bentley to RG when he returns in '08. Overall, we've got a lot of options to improve it, and surely a draft pick like Quinn or Peterson will not be a "waste".

dlions20
02-14-2007, 03:03 PM
Would you give a 4rth round pick for David Carr, to give Frye some competiton?

CherryGarcia510
02-14-2007, 04:56 PM
Would you give a 4rth round pick for David Carr, to give Frye some competiton?

yes

dlions20
02-14-2007, 05:10 PM
sign Kris Dielman in FA, along with Fraley and Turdell Sands (DE).

Trade our 4rth for David Carr. (might take 3rd?)

RD
1-Adrian Peterson
2-Victor Abiamiri
3-Johnny Lee Higgins
5-bpa
6-bpa
7-Stanley Daughty

Sounds good to me.

Fresh
02-14-2007, 05:50 PM
Yes, this line could be fixed through FA. I think our main problems were LG and RT. Davidson was one of the main reasons why Andruzzi continued to start throughout the length of the season. Enter: Dielman, Steinbach, or Dockery in FA. Center is a question, I believe they will resign Fraley or sign Gurode (spelling). RT is currently Kelly Butler's job. Even though Tucker has told Crennel that he will return in '07, who knows what his health status is, so I expect a draft pick project to legitimately contest Butler for the job. While Butler wasn't terrible, he proved that he isn't really starting material at RT and could use some competition. Overall, our major concerns are at LG and RT. LG can be fixed in FA, and RT can either be fixed in FA (sign tra thomas) or within day one of the draft (ugoh/staley/marten). It will be intersting to see how the center issue develops. I'm sure Bentley won't return in '07, but I wonder what Phil will say at his combine presser anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Kalil is drafted rd2 to fill our center void, thus moving Bentley to RG when he returns in '08. Overall, we've got a lot of options to improve it, and surely a draft pick like Quinn or Peterson will not be a "waste".

Hank Fraley is solid at center and only looked bad because of the people around him, so resigning him would be a good start. Signing a G in FA (preferably Dielman) and drafting Thomas would make our o-line one of the 5 best in the league, even without Bentley. Thomas would move Schaffer to RT where I believe he is a better fit anyway, thus filling our major needs at LG and RT.

These changes in the o-line will undoubtedly make Frye and Droughns look better, although droughns is getting old. (see my 3rd round pick)

dlions20
02-14-2007, 06:09 PM
Signing a G in FA (preferably Dielman) and drafting Thomas would make our o-line one of the 5 best in the league, even without Bentley.

I really doubt that. Maybe with Bentley, and they all have time to adjust to each other (acouple seasons).


Its hard to believe Duce McCalister and Droughns are the same age, Drougns has alot less milage, but McCalister isnt going down hill and Drougns is?

icantackleclaret
02-14-2007, 06:33 PM
Question for everyone: I really wanted to get Lavar last year over Willie but that didn't happen. Any chance we make a offer to him this year and get him a little cheaper? I really think he fits the bill of an OLB in the 3-4 and would have another year to learn from Willie.


Also I think if we traded for Carr we could use the 3/4 pick for the 8th pick and Carr. That way if 1 of the top QBs are still on the board they could draft them. Also it would seem that we could draft AD still if we are @ 8.


thoughts?

Cwood8899
02-14-2007, 08:35 PM
HAHAHA some kid i know at school bet me $10 that the Browns would draft Jamarcus Russell. :D

Hail Browns
02-14-2007, 08:54 PM
I'm going to post my thoughts for our offseason since I've been putting it off for quite some time.

First, free agency. We need to acquire a guard, preferably Kris Dielman. Joe Andruzzi is horrid and Dielman is not only younger, but he is a far better player. We would of course bring Fraley back, and I'm not sure yet about Coleman. He's ok, but probably better as a backup.

I'd like to see us attempt to sign Nate Clements. I know he wants a lot of money, but we've got money, and he would prevent last season's depth problems from resurfacing. We'd have Clements, Bodden, McCutcheon, Holly, and probably Minter. That sounds good to me. I know we have Baxter, but it's going to be a LONG TIME before he suits up again.

It would also be nice to sign a DE. Our run D is atrocious, and we lost quite a few games this year because people ran us over. I personally want Terdell Sands to play DE for us. He's MASSIVE and strong, specializes in stopping the run, and would allow our linebackers more space to roam and make plays.

I think these three additions alone would help us greatly going into next year. Note that I didn't say we would be an amazing team, just that these guys would help us get better in areas of need.

This is my Free Agency post. I'll put up my draft ideas in another post. I don't want to write my whole offseason in one post.

Hail Browns
02-14-2007, 09:13 PM
Ok, now here's my draft ideas. First, this is all hypothetical, so please don't hang me if I bring up an idea that you don't agree with.

Assuming we win the coin toss and pick 3rd, a trade may be possible. However, since I don't feel like speculating about draft trades right now, I'll leave trades out for the time being.

So, here are a couple draft scenarios that I personally like.
#1
1st-Adrian Peterson
2nd-Joe Staley or Ben Grubbs
3rd-DE, maybe Ray McDonald or Ryan Mcbean or something.
4th-BPA
5th-David Ball, you probably all think I'm crazy, but this guy just plays receiver the way it was meant to be played. He also does something that our receivers seem to have trouble with, holding onto the ball.
6th-Stanley Doughty?, apparently we should get this guy? I keep seeing other people wanting us to get him. I dunno, I thought BPA.
7th-BPA or Project player

This draft would give us a stud RB, someone to block for him, some defensive line help, and a couple of other possible contributors.

#2
1st-Alan Branch
2nd-Joe Staley or Ben Grubbs
3rd-Dan Bazuin
4th-Kareem Brown or Antonio Johnson
5th-David Ball
6th-Best OT or OG available (Depending on who was chosen in the 2nd)
7th-BPA or Project player

This draft is the ultimate in unsexiness. This is not going to bring fans to the stadium, but it beefs up the trenches, and that's where we are the weakest.

This is just my first round of draft ideas. I've been writing a thesis paper and haven't been up to date on the latest things with prospects, but once the combine is over I'll post another scenario including possible trades.

Please give thoughts, I'd like to bring this board to life.

Westbourne
02-14-2007, 10:36 PM
I've gotta say that I've enjoyed reading all (most) of your stuff, gents. Lots of interesting analysis.

Since you all are way ahead of me on the details, I'd like to get your feedback on a few items. Hopefully, you'll make it all clear to someone who's more overview oriented

1. I read a piece lately that pins Quinn's poor performance in meaningful games on his team. The old "he had to pass all day 'cause they had no D and his O-line had him hurried against strong Ds" take. Do you think that this situation differs much from what he'd have with the Brownies?

2. Are you giving up on Droughns when he had 1,000+ in '05? Do you think he's that degraded in one year or was it the O-line in 2006? With our O-line, would AP have more success than a veteran NFL 1,000 rusher?

3. Arguably, our biggest impact player on D is Wimbley. Even if you don't think so for '06, he will be soon. He's all upside. We grabbed him at 13, right? This draft isn't so weak that it's all in the top 5, is it?

Most of you want the impact O player, Quinn or Petersen but can this O-line be fixed enough in FA and 1 pick per round that they won't be a waste? Bad O-line = Couch/Green....Good O-line = Kosar-Sipe/Mack-Byner

1. There's no question of Brady's talent. Plus there's no way to value being coached by the QB guru Weis. With that said, Brady will be brought in to a place where he has 3 targets; Braylon, the big bodied fast WR that should be breaking out [HOPEFULLY]. The sure handed JJ. The and best TE in the league, K2. Throw in Droughns who is a very capable running back who can get yards. Our defense isn't bad if it didn't have to be put into situations/scoring differentials that it was created by our offense. If we can get the Oline help in FA than Quinn would make a lot of sense. He's good and he'll sell tickets.

2.I am not on the Adrian Peterson bandwagon. I'm on Brady's. Droughns was a 1000 yard back in Denver. So many say "that's a bi-product of Denver's system." Then had a 1000 yard season here in Cleveland. Last year you can blame it on injuries, oline, the horrid passing game which allowed defenses to stack the box, the play calling of Carthon, or even Rueban's legal problems. I think he's a good back who will bounce back in '08. That's just my opinion though.

3. All drafts have those players that are drafted late and become stars (tom brady 6th round, colston 7th). The talent differental isn't bad depending on the position. The elite guys, are also the elite guys at the weak positions which make their value increase. Branch being the top DT and then a big drop off. Peterson being the best RB with a big drop off (NFL network is saying that Lynch could drop into the second round because of all his problems). There is currently guys available that are very good, but for what we need via the '07 draft is weak in the middle of the round (assuming we are targeting, Oline-Thomas/QB's-Quinn/Russell/HB-Peterson/DL-Branch).


i think we would go after adalius thomas first, if anything since he did get drafted by savage. but, IMO, we wont sign another starting LB this year.

Every indication I've read said that Thomas is getting the tag.

Would you give a 4rth round pick for David Carr, to give Frye some competiton?

No. I think Frye has enough competition with all the speculation. If we take Quinn/Russell he instantly is fighting with them and most likely lose. If not, he has Anderson on his trail, and all the talk of us passing on Quinn/Russell with the Cleveland Faithful [who seem to give up on players rather quickly] saying, and we missed Quinn/Russell to stay with Frye. With all the talk, he has enough on his plate, and we can use the 4th to draft a real player that could do some help for us. I personally don't like Carr and he doesn't bring in anything new to Cleveland. He doesn't bring a winning attitude that could carry over in his winning days in Houston. Really all he brings is his toughness to take hits and Frye can do that too.



MY offseason would go:

Davis/Dhiel/Steinbach for guard.
Doss singed. Russell let go. p.s. I figure Doss to be a cheap sign since we are his 1st choice and we have money and he is better than Russell, allthough I like Russell.
Fraley resigned.
Bring in Clements
I'd like to see us attempt to sign Nate Clements. I know he wants a lot of money, but we've got money, and he would prevent last season's depth problems from resurfacing. We'd have Clements, Bodden, McCutcheon, Holly, and probably Minter. That sounds good to me. I know we have Baxter, but it's going to be a LONG TIME before he suits up again.
Agreed. The depth will not be missed. With DB's of Clements, Bodden, Holley, Brown/Minter/Perry, and Baxtor in '08 at the earliest. Dutch isn't coming back though. Poole could very well be a CB as well.

Lastly, get one Dline. I personally want Terdell Sands to play DE for us. Was signed by the Raiders today.

Then draft:
r1: Quinn/Russell/Peterson/Branch if we trade down.
r2: Staley if he's there/abriamri (spelling)/bush if we didn't draft Peterson and are unsure of RD.
r3: Bush/Ugoh/Harris if we didn't get Staley.
r4: Ramirez/BPA
r5-7: BPA.

Westbourne
02-14-2007, 10:45 PM
And how do you do the white box thing?

They are codes that you put in your text.

So you want to quote a paragraph, you copy it, and then paste it to the reply box. In my example this will be called 'text' with text being the paragraph or statement or whatever you want to be put in the white box.

You put these series of coding before/after the post. p.s. replace the ( ) brackets with [ ] brackets.

(quote)text(/quote)

If you want to show who wrote the topic you do this.

(quote="the user's name")text(/quote)

It's easy once you get the hang of it. Remember that it's really [ ] for the brackets, but i had to use ( ) for this example. If you need more help PM me and I'll try to explain it better.

dsnyder038
02-14-2007, 11:40 PM
It would also be nice to sign a DE. Our run D is atrocious, and we lost quite a few games this year because people ran us over. I personally want Terdell Sands to play DE for us. He's MASSIVE and strong, specializes in stopping the run, and would allow our linebackers more space to roam and make plays..

Actually Sands was just resigned by the Raiders. I think our next option as far as DE's go is that maybe Kris Jenkins or Cory Redding hit the market. Also, about Carr. There is a rumor floating around that the Browns have already had talks with the Texans about swapping first round picks and picking up another pick and trading Chaun Thompson for Carr. Still in it's "rumor" stages, although I heard more info will come about when the combine rolls around. So regarding the 4th rounder for Carr trade, how would you like swapping Chaun for Carr? I'd do that in a pinch.

Westbourne
02-14-2007, 11:45 PM
It would also be nice to sign a DE. Our run D is atrocious, and we lost quite a few games this year because people ran us over. I personally want Terdell Sands to play DE for us. He's MASSIVE and strong, specializes in stopping the run, and would allow our linebackers more space to roam and make plays..

Actually Sands was just resigned by the Raiders. I think our next option as far as DE's go is that maybe Kris Jenkins or Cory Redding hit the market. Also, about Carr. There is a rumor floating around that the Browns have already had talks with the Texans about swapping first round picks and picking up another pick and trading Chaun Thompson for Carr. Still in it's "rumor" stages, although I heard more info will come about when the combine rolls around. So regarding the 4th rounder for Carr trade, how would you like swapping Chaun for Carr? I'd do that in a pinch.

Why Carr? how is he better than Frye?

dlions20
02-15-2007, 02:03 AM
If not, he has Anderson on his trail

When a third string qb is contesting your starter, you need change.

Hail Browns
02-15-2007, 07:28 AM
How is DCutch gone? I'd really like to know that. He's not an injury prone player, minor arthroscopic knee surgery is nothing, he just wasn't healing as fast as they wanted him to. His contract is not over, he's not overpayed, and he's a consistent player who works hard all the time. Putting him on the IR so soon this past season really hurt our depth.

Please enlighten me, or at least let me know where you get the idea from.

Hail Browns
02-15-2007, 07:32 AM
It would also be nice to sign a DE. Our run D is atrocious, and we lost quite a few games this year because people ran us over. I personally want Terdell Sands to play DE for us. He's MASSIVE and strong, specializes in stopping the run, and would allow our linebackers more space to roam and make plays..

Actually Sands was just resigned by the Raiders. I think our next option as far as DE's go is that maybe Kris Jenkins or Cory Redding hit the market. Also, about Carr. There is a rumor floating around that the Browns have already had talks with the Texans about swapping first round picks and picking up another pick and trading Chaun Thompson for Carr. Still in it's "rumor" stages, although I heard more info will come about when the combine rolls around. So regarding the 4th rounder for Carr trade, how would you like swapping Chaun for Carr? I'd do that in a pinch.

I just saw the thing about Sands, too bad. I think he would've fit well for us. I'd say Cory Redding and MAYBE Robaire Smith could be options, although Smith is up there in years.

I don't want Carr. I've tried my hardest to support the guy because I feel sorry for QB's who take hits constantly behind a horrid o-line. He just hasn't shown me anything that we don't have right now.

As for Chaun Thompson, he's underrated, probably because he doesn't get to play. I was really irritated this year because we didn't rotate any of our players. He's a guy who would be great in a rotation since he can play inside and out. If we're just going to let him waste away on the bench, get rid of him, but I'd like to see him actually get to PLAY again in a Browns uni.

Fresh
02-15-2007, 07:38 AM
1st-Alan Branch
2nd-Joe Staley or Ben Grubbs
3rd-Dan Bazuin
4th-Kareem Brown or Antonio Johnson
5th-David Ball


That's a good draft.

Thanks j05son.

Fresh
02-15-2007, 07:41 AM
Davis/Dhiel/Steinbach for guard.
Doss singed. Russell let go. p.s. I figure Doss to be a cheap sign since we are his 1st choice and we have money and he is better than Russell, allthough I like Russell.
Fraley resigned.
Bring in Clements

That doesn't solve our RT problem, but I like all of the moves you have.

Hail Browns
02-15-2007, 07:41 AM
One final thing, j05son. I am going to disagree with having Doss over Russell. When Russell was on the field he made all the calls for the secondary. He's smart, tough, works hard, and he's usually in the right place at the right time.

Doss is more of a run stopping S. He's not so good in coverage, and no matter how much I like him, I don't think he's better than anything we already have. I would like to see him come to Cleveland, but not at the price of Russell.

Hail Browns
02-15-2007, 07:45 AM
1st-Alan Branch
2nd-Joe Staley or Ben Grubbs
3rd-Dan Bazuin
4th-Kareem Brown or Antonio Johnson
5th-David Ball


That's a good draft.



This would be my favorite draft for us. It gives us more depth and talent on the d-line. Someone to block for Droughns, Willie's replacement on the strongside, and a receiver who I think will be surprising if given the chance. I'm not a big fan of Droughns, but I do think he'd be ok behind a better o-line if he shared carries with someone.

If this is what we did, we'd probably try to trade down a few spots to make Branch a better value. That would give us an extra pick that I didn't use in that draft.

Fresh
02-15-2007, 07:58 AM
This would be my favorite draft for us. It gives us more depth and talent on the d-line. Someone to block for Droughns, Willie's replacement on the strongside, and a receiver who I think will be surprising if given the chance. I'm not a big fan of Droughns, but I do think he'd be ok behind a better o-line if he shared carries with someone.

If this is what we did, we'd probably try to trade down a few spots to make Branch a better value. That would give us an extra pick that I didn't use in that draft.

While I'd still rather have Thomas, trading down and still getting Branch would be a great move.

Also, with our extra pick (3rd round, maybe?) we could afford to take Michael Bush if Droughns doesn't work. Which I don't think he will, even with our revamped o-line.

Hail Browns
02-15-2007, 08:58 AM
This would be my favorite draft for us. It gives us more depth and talent on the d-line. Someone to block for Droughns, Willie's replacement on the strongside, and a receiver who I think will be surprising if given the chance. I'm not a big fan of Droughns, but I do think he'd be ok behind a better o-line if he shared carries with someone.

If this is what we did, we'd probably try to trade down a few spots to make Branch a better value. That would give us an extra pick that I didn't use in that draft.

While I'd still rather have Thomas, trading down and still getting Branch would be a great move.

Also, with our extra pick (3rd round, maybe?) we could afford to take Michael Bush if Droughns doesn't work. Which I don't think he will, even with our revamped o-line.

I've never really liked Droughns, so maybe that would work. I think he'd be ok with the revamped line if we ran with 2 rb's. I've always liked the 2-back system as it keeps legs fresh and players don't wear down as quickly. Maybe Droughns/Wright or Droughns/Harrison.

stl9erfan
02-15-2007, 11:35 AM
i'm still not sure why everyone wants a RT so bad. we could use one, but its not a nesecity. did everyone forget that we dont have a RG? i'm sure one of the younger guys will take over that spot, and now that davidson is gone, andruzzi will finally sit out. i'm also completely against the thought of moving bently to G. altho he'd be a great guard, he'd be a highly paid RG.

also, its starting to seem unlikely that staley will fall to us. if he even last's to the second rnd, it looks like raiders will take him, unless they do something stupid and draft a WR in the 2nd rnd.

as far as droughns goes. he's not that good. every keeps saying that he did good in denver, then had 1000 yard season in cleveland. he also set a franchise record for most carries in one season and didnt even average 4ypc. thats how he got to 1200 yrds. he doenst have great vision. he's not as agile as he tries to be. he's a 3rd and short back.

i've also let my hopes go on gettin clements. there's a lot of other teams looking at him, and when baxter comes back, we have 3 startes. i like bodden. dont really like baxter. but he's here and under a nice big contract. its not like our coner's are bad. its that we dont get any pressure on the opposing QB and he has all day to throw that ball.

Dcutch isnt "officially" gone. but as far as i know, he's still not in playing condition. the only word as of now is that he's probably gone.

sorry, this was kind of the "anti" post of everyone else's thoughts.

Fresh
02-15-2007, 11:36 AM
Don't forget about Droughns/Bush.

Or, preferably, Bush/Droughns. :wink:

Fresh
02-15-2007, 11:54 AM
i'm still not sure why everyone wants a RT so bad. we could use one, but its not a nesecity. did everyone forget that we dont have a RG? i'm sure one of the younger guys will take over that spot, and now that davidson is gone, andruzzi will finally sit out. i'm also completely against the thought of moving bently to G. altho he'd be a great guard, he'd be a highly paid RG.

I agree with the part about Bentley, but I feel that RT is a much bigger need than RG because of the talent and potential that is at RG, if not the experience. I believe Sowells will step up and take that spot next year. As for RT, I don't think we have anyone there who has what it takes to be a solid starter for 16 weeks, except Schaffer. But moving Schaffer there would give us a need at LT, which is why we should draft Thomas, if he's there.

ChazMonk
02-15-2007, 04:49 PM
I don't post much, but am always reading up on my Brown's, so here is some tidbits I have come up with regarding what I think, though of course I am no expert.

I like to think I am always loyal to the players on my teams, so bear that in mind when I say this: If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we possibly be happy with Droughns and Fry as our starting RB and QB respectively? Droughns will never be an elite back and Fry will never be a Manning or Favre (I know, few QB's are, but why can't we strive for it, instead of being the Raven's of 2000 with Dilfer or the Bears of this year). So why are so many people against picking a Russell, Quinn or Peterson in the first round.

I know they are not "locks" to be Pro Bowl players, but this idea that we can build around these two has never made sense to me. (It just screams mediocrity)

Now, I know how bad our lines are, but if we can build through FA and the draft (from everything I have seen the 1st three rounds will be flush with linemen), then I say draft the best available talent for round 1, and to me that equals Peterson, Quinn, Russell or even Johnson. The truly successful teams always seem to draft elite players that work out with that first pick, so why can't we?

Besides, and someone tell me if I am right or wrong, I think I read where Savage does not like to draft linemen with the first pick.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. (riveting I know...)

Freddy G
02-15-2007, 06:34 PM
I don't post much, but am always reading up on my Brown's, so here is some tidbits I have come up with regarding what I think, though of course I am no expert.

I like to think I am always loyal to the players on my teams, so bear that in mind when I say this: If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we possibly be happy with Droughns and Fry as our starting RB and QB respectively? Droughns will never be an elite back and Fry will never be a Manning or Favre (I know, few QB's are, but why can't we strive for it, instead of being the Raven's of 2000 with Dilfer or the Bears of this year). So why are so many people against picking a Russell, Quinn or Peterson in the first round.

I know they are not "locks" to be Pro Bowl players, but this idea that we can build around these two has never made sense to me. (It just screams mediocrity)

Now, I know how bad our lines are, but if we can build through FA and the draft (from everything I have seen the 1st three rounds will be flush with linemen), then I say draft the best available talent for round 1, and to me that equals Peterson, Quinn, Russell or even Johnson. The truly successful teams always seem to draft elite players that work out with that first pick, so why can't we?

Besides, and someone tell me if I am right or wrong, I think I read where Savage does not like to draft linemen with the first pick.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. (riveting I know...)

A ring is a ring, whether you win it with Trent Dilfer or Peyton Manning doesn't matter, and personally, i see enough potential in Frye to be a starting QB. Too early to tell if he is playoff caliber.

You're right, Savage, with the exception of an OT, just doesn't take OL day 1. He believes in getting FA OL and finding guys on day 2, rightfully so though, every year we see starters come from day 2.

Freddy G
02-15-2007, 06:45 PM
Resign: Hank Fraley, Brian Russell, Simon Fraser

FA: Kris Dielman, Aubrayo Franklin, Jake Scott, Vinny Testaverde

Ideal draft (option 1)- Trade 2nd and 3rd rounder for early 20s 1st rounder.

1. Adrian Peterson- RB
1b. Adam Carriker- DE
4. James Marten- OT
5. Kenny Scott- CB
6. Louis Leonard- NT
7. Yamon Figurs- PR/WR

OL-
LT- Kevin Shaffer
LG- Kris Dielman
C- Hank Fraley
RG- Jake Scott
RT- James Marten

DL-
DE- Orpheus Roye, Simon Fraser
NT- Aubrayo Franklin, Ethan Kelly
DE- Adam Carriker, Orien Harris

Option 2.

1. Jamaal Anderson- DE
2. Tony Hunt/Mike Bush- RB
3. Ryan McBean/Justin Harrell- DE
4. James Marten-OT
5. Kenny Scott-CB
6. Louis Leonard-NT
7. Yamon Figurs-PR

OL-same

DL
DE- Orpheus Roye, Justin Harrell
NT- Aubrayo Franklin, Ethan Kelly
DE- Jamaal Anderson, Simon Fraser

Westbourne
02-15-2007, 10:43 PM
If not, he has Anderson on his trail

When a third string qb is contesting your starter, you need change.

2nd string, 3rd string is Dorsey, and since Anderson is what, 3 years younger than Frye, and has a better arm I don't see why a second stringer can't go after a first stringer. It's not like it hasn't happened before, Remember when Tom Brady was watching games with Drew Bledsoe running them. By the way, I think Both Frye and Anderson are 2nd stringers and that Brady Quinn is the long term solution [in my opinion].

Please enlighten me, or at least let me know where you get the idea from.

I read papers a lot at work. Try googling Daylon McCutcheon news and you'll find many many sources like this link.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2577

The Browns appear likely to release CB Daylon McCutcheon this off-season.
McCutcheon underwent microfracture surgery in November and his career could be over.
Source: Akron Beacon-Journal

^That's my source...I've read it in the Post Gazette and Plain Dealer as well.

I don't want Carr. He just hasn't shown me anything that we don't have right now.

Total agreement. Carr is nothing better than our current situation. The main thing the Browns need to do this offseason is figure out if Charlie is OUR GUY! If he is, then draft accordingly to make the offense around him better. If not, acquiring players like Carr is worthless with two potential franchise QB's who could be sitting there waiting for us to draft them.

Thanks j05son.

No problem. ANYTHING FOR A BROWNS FAN!

That doesn't solve our RT problem, but I like all of the moves you have.

My draft was for the RT. I would absolutely love it if we drafted someone Staley in the second. If not him, grab Ugoh, Harris, Free, Marten in the draft and have them play RT or move Shaffar to his natural position (blocking the QB's sight side). IF we didn't go the route of OT via draft, Butler would be starting there; Esp since he was just given an extension this offseason making me believe that he has shown something to Phil/Romeo.

I would like to see him come to Cleveland, but not at the price of Russell.

Will Russell even be back? With Jones emergence and Phil's solid belief in Poole would we even bring back Russell? I don't think so. I really don't think we'll bring in Doss. I just think if we did, he would be cheap since he wants to be here and he has stated to the Plain Dealer in an interview that he would love if Phil could fit him in with our crowed safties...So he knows we have talent, and I just view it as him being able to stop the run (we ranked 4th to last) and could move Poole to CB [MAYBE!] with him bringing depth to our secondary, and front box, along with being CHEAP!

Also, with our extra pick (3rd round, maybe?) we could afford to take Michael Bush if Droughns doesn't work. Which I don't think he will, even with our revamped o-line.

i like Bush a lot. With his injury and his inability to preform at the combine, he should fall and would be a great value pick where ever he eventually goes at. I wouldn't mind if we pulled the trigger on him in the 3rd. I think Droughens would be fine though, and that he's not a neccasity, I just like the guy.

i'm still not sure why everyone wants a RT so bad. we could use one, but its not a nesecity. did everyone forget that we dont have a RG? i'm sure one of the younger guys will take over that spot, and now that davidson is gone, andruzzi will finally sit out. i'm also completely against the thought of moving bently to G. altho he'd be a great guard, he'd be a highly paid RG.

also, its starting to seem unlikely that staley will fall to us. if he even last's to the second rnd, it looks like raiders will take him, unless they do something stupid and draft a WR in the 2nd rnd.

as far as droughns goes. he's not that good. every keeps saying that he did good in denver, then had 1000 yard season in cleveland. he also set a franchise record for most carries in one season and didnt even average 4ypc. thats how he got to 1200 yrds. he doenst have great vision. he's not as agile as he tries to be. he's a 3rd and short back.

i've also let my hopes go on gettin clements. there's a lot of other teams looking at him, and when baxter comes back, we have 3 startes. i like bodden. dont really like baxter. but he's here and under a nice big contract. its not like our coner's are bad. its that we dont get any pressure on the opposing QB and he has all day to throw that ball.

Dcutch isnt "officially" gone. but as far as i know, he's still not in playing condition. the only word as of now is that he's probably gone.

sorry, this was kind of the "anti" post of everyone else's thoughts.

1. Agreed. Bentley is a center. Keep him there.
2. Scott's new mock has him going after us 2nd round. It's always a possibility, esp with the combine approaching. I was trying to be realistic in my draft with Harris and Ugoh being available 2nd/3rd rounds...Butler isn't terrible. Also, you never know what that genius Al Davis will do. The Davis' ruin teams (Al, Butch...)
3. We've also never had a passing threat to keep safties and backers honost. With RD being the power back and Harrison being the speedster, we have an underrated 2 back scheme that is behind an old unreliable line. I'd like to see how they do with a better QB and line to help out our offense as a whole...
4. Clements is a Shaker Heights native and OSU grad. Plus we have the money to peruse him if we WANTED TO. Main phrase wanted to. He could be ours if Phil decides to. We are looking to be a good team. How many games did we lose this last season under 10? We weren't getting blown out which is a plus for rebuilding squads.
5. Nothing is known for sure, but all the 'rumors' say he's gone.
6. Sorry for my anti post buddy. :) :p

Now, I know how bad our lines are, but if we can build through FA and the draft (from everything I have seen the 1st three rounds will be flush with linemen), then I say draft the best available talent for round 1, and to me that equals Peterson, Quinn, Russell or even Johnson. The truly successful teams always seem to draft elite players that work out with that first pick, so why can't we?

Besides, and someone tell me if I am right or wrong, I think I read where Savage does not like to draft linemen with the first pick.

You are totally right. Phil doesn't draft interrior lineman first day. Feeling that Guards can be found later in the draft. He'll draft tackels though, evident by Ogden. He is also a BPA guy, which means, Quinn, Russell, or Peterson will likely be our picks. For they have the most value at our pick unless we trade down. Branch seems sexy, but with Offense being the focus point of this years draft (SOURCE: Phil's press conferences) I believe one of those 3 will be a Brown. I am all for passing on Thomas round 1, try to get an inexperienced guard FA, then draft one or try out one of our youngins and draft one of the OT's that are readily available, Free, Staley, Harris, Ugoh, Marten, etc. later to finish our Oline project. Behind that, Quinn/Russel or Peterson should make our offense much better than it did last year which won't put our defense in such bad situation turning those close games we lost to games we can easily win.

Lastly, unless Carriker has a pitiful Combine, we will have to give up a lot for him. He is shotting up EVERYONE'S mock draft boards, us, nfl network, espn....

jriles0522
02-16-2007, 10:45 AM
Does anyone have access to the browns scout website? The feature article says that an exit strategy is unfolding for Adalius Thomas and that Cleveland could be the destination for him. Just wanted to know what more it said if someone could summarize it. Thanks.

keylime_5
02-16-2007, 10:52 AM
I saw the same thing and I would love to have Thomas here to play outside linebacker over the old and often hurt Willie McGinest. I think Wimbley/Thomas would give us probably the 2nd best duo of OLBs other than Merriman/Phillips in san diego.

jriles0522
02-16-2007, 12:26 PM
I saw the same thing and I would love to have Thomas here to play outside linebacker over the old and often hurt Willie McGinest. I think Wimbley/Thomas would give us probably the 2nd best duo of OLBs other than Merriman/Phillips in san diego.

On the same topic, i read he turns 30 before the season starts. How many solid years do you think he has left before he starts to decline like McGinest. Three, four, five? Just curious.

stl9erfan
02-16-2007, 12:48 PM
i'be posted this before. but now we got some more ppl posting on a consitant basis, so here goes again.

what does everyone think about Ian Scott playing DE for us? he's a physical player, not that slow. he could easily clog running lanes on the outside for us. just looking for opinions.

Fresh
02-16-2007, 02:24 PM
I don't post much, but am always reading up on my Brown's, so here is some tidbits I have come up with regarding what I think, though of course I am no expert.

I like to think I am always loyal to the players on my teams, so bear that in mind when I say this: If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we possibly be happy with Droughns and Fry as our starting RB and QB respectively? Droughns will never be an elite back and Fry will never be a Manning or Favre (I know, few QB's are, but why can't we strive for it, instead of being the Raven's of 2000 with Dilfer or the Bears of this year). So why are so many people against picking a Russell, Quinn or Peterson in the first round.

If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we be happy with a sub-par offensive line not allowing any of our quarterback's or running back's any chance (seemingly) to do their jobs correctly year after year?

keylime_5
02-16-2007, 02:25 PM
Ian Scott is no fit at DE for us at all. But don't worry, there are plenty of guys who are good 3-4 DEs on the market this year (even though most of them are over 30 years of age): Robaire Smith, Vonnie Holliday, Cory Redding, Kevin Carter, and Kimo vonOelhoffen (who is extremely washed up ). At least one of those guys will start for the Browns next year.

mcdlaxbonz13
02-16-2007, 10:35 PM
has anyone else noticed alot of people giving the browns a cb in round 2 i kind of find that weird considering our depth at cb was well tested this year and i must say they held their own. since minter will be healthy i really don't see cleveland addressing cb at all during the first day maybe not even the entire draft.

keylime_5
02-17-2007, 08:23 AM
If we don't sign a guy in free agency who can be a good starting CB opposite Bodden then our hand might be forced to draft a CB in early round 2 like a Chris Houston, Daymeion Hughes, or a Marcus McCauley. We have a hole at that spot and Daven Holly is a better fit at #3 or 4 CB

Freddy G
02-17-2007, 09:22 AM
If we don't sign a guy in free agency who can be a good starting CB opposite Bodden then our hand might be forced to draft a CB in early round 2 like a Chris Houston, Daymeion Hughes, or a Marcus McCauley. We have a hole at that spot and Daven Holly is a better fit at #3 or 4 CB

I'll take Brodney Pool over all of them. Assuming we resign Russell.

ChazMonk
02-17-2007, 10:23 AM
I don't post much, but am always reading up on my Brown's, so here is some tidbits I have come up with regarding what I think, though of course I am no expert.

I like to think I am always loyal to the players on my teams, so bear that in mind when I say this: If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we possibly be happy with Droughns and Fry as our starting RB and QB respectively? Droughns will never be an elite back and Fry will never be a Manning or Favre (I know, few QB's are, but why can't we strive for it, instead of being the Raven's of 2000 with Dilfer or the Bears of this year). So why are so many people against picking a Russell, Quinn or Peterson in the first round.

If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we be happy with a sub-par offensive line not allowing any of our quarterback's or running back's any chance (seemingly) to do their jobs correctly year after year?

True, but to that I say our best bet is FA for the line and picks 2-7. Getting an outstanding QB and RB would be more realistic with the 1st round pick. And my main point is we will not win a super bowl with our current qb and rb situation, so why not strive for the best at those positions as well? I for one have never understood all the hoopla surrounding Fry, not that I think he is terrible. And when was the last time the Browns had a "blue chip" RB? And why not? I know the line is to blame as well, but I for one am completely tired of the 31st ranked running attack in the league every year.

I totally agree we need the trenches fixed to go to the next level, but having an outstanding backfield would be nice as well, and would even stoke the interest of fans.

dlions20
02-17-2007, 10:48 AM
has anyone else noticed alot of people giving the browns a cb in round 2 i kind of find that weird considering our depth at cb was well tested this year and i must say they held their own.

The Browns arguably have one of the worste DB groups in the NFL, also the most unexsperienced. And unhealthy to top it off.

To say we dont need another good DB is crazy. We had a horrible secondary last year, the only reason we wouldnt consider drafting one is because we have young players and maybe they still need time to develope which is a typical cleveland player (never maxes potential).

Fresh
02-17-2007, 12:22 PM
I don't post much, but am always reading up on my Brown's, so here is some tidbits I have come up with regarding what I think, though of course I am no expert.

I like to think I am always loyal to the players on my teams, so bear that in mind when I say this: If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we possibly be happy with Droughns and Fry as our starting RB and QB respectively? Droughns will never be an elite back and Fry will never be a Manning or Favre (I know, few QB's are, but why can't we strive for it, instead of being the Raven's of 2000 with Dilfer or the Bears of this year). So why are so many people against picking a Russell, Quinn or Peterson in the first round.

If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we be happy with a sub-par offensive line not allowing any of our quarterback's or running back's any chance (seemingly) to do their jobs correctly year after year?

True, but to that I say our best bet is FA for the line and picks 2-7. Getting an outstanding QB and RB would be more realistic with the 1st round pick. And my main point is we will not win a super bowl with our current qb and rb situation, so why not strive for the best at those positions as well? I for one have never understood all the hoopla surrounding Fry, not that I think he is terrible. And when was the last time the Browns had a "blue chip" RB? And why not? I know the line is to blame as well, but I for one am completely tired of the 31st ranked running attack in the league every year.

I totally agree we need the trenches fixed to go to the next level, but having an outstanding backfield would be nice as well, and would even stoke the interest of fans.

So basically we both think that we need to strive for a great backfield and o-line (obviously :roll: ) but there's an issue with money and only 1 pick for an elite player. I feel that o-line is a more pressing need, but, don't get me wrong, I would not be upset at drafting AP in the 1st round. However, I'm still on Charlie's bandwagon and will be ticked off immensely if we take Quinn or Russel.

Also, look at Tampa Bay about 5 years ago. Who did they have behind center? Brad johnson with Warrick Dunn behind him? That's hardly great. Granted, they had an amazing defense, and it is a rare occurrence that a team wins the super bowl without an elite RB or QB, but it can be done.

Lastly, you've prompted me to change my sig, although I'm still putting Thomases name first. :lol:

Fresh
02-17-2007, 12:37 PM
has anyone else noticed alot of people giving the browns a cb in round 2 i kind of find that weird considering our depth at cb was well tested this year and i must say they held their own.

The Browns arguably have one of the worste DB groups in the NFL, also the most unexsperienced. And unhealthy to top it off.

To say we dont need another good DB is crazy. We had a horrible secondary last year, the only reason we wouldnt consider drafting one is because we have young players and maybe they still need time to develope which is a typical cleveland player (never maxes potential).

I agree that our secondary held it's own all year even with all of the injuries, and strongly disagree that we have one of the worst DB groups in the league. I thought our secondary was a bright spot this season, and, when healthy, I believe it to be a top 10 secondary in the league. Granted, we are missing another good starting corner opposite Bodden, who is a top ten corner when healthy. And we have a strong core of safeties, led by Sean Jones who is an elite safety and the best player on the Brown's.

When our front seven can't consistently pressure the QB, it's hard for a secondary to look good, and I think our d-line is the main concern on the defensive side of the ball.

I totally agree with Cleveland player's never even coming close to living up to our expectations, but or secondary exceeded mine this year.

Iamcanadian
02-17-2007, 12:41 PM
I don't think you can rule out Quinn. He would be a huge upgrade over Frye. Peterson is a huge risk, he looks good on paper but couldn't even get through a college season for the last 2 years. What good is he if he can't stay on the field?? Thomas will probably be drafted by Detroit.
I think it is going to come down to player's workouts and personal interviews. If Quinn passes with flying colours, he'll be our pick , if not, then it's Johnson or a trade down, because after Russell, Thomas, Quinn and Johnson, it's a pretty good dropoff in talent to the #5 prospect. These 4 guys are the elite prospects in this draft, at least before the combine and personal workouts, so unless some player blows the scouts away, we will have to take one or trade down. It's pretty feasible as the demand for Quinn or Johnson could be very tempting for some top 12 NFL team. We won't go any lower than that.

ChazMonk
02-17-2007, 01:35 PM
I don't think you can rule out Quinn. He would be a huge upgrade over Frye. Peterson is a huge risk, he looks good on paper but couldn't even get through a college season for the last 2 years. What good is he if he can't stay on the field?? Thomas will probably be drafted by Detroit.
I think it is going to come down to player's workouts and personal interviews. If Quinn passes with flying colours, he'll be our pick , if not, then it's Johnson or a trade down, because after Russell, Thomas, Quinn and Johnson, it's a pretty good dropoff in talent to the #5 prospect. These 4 guys are the elite prospects in this draft, at least before the combine and personal workouts, so unless some player blows the scouts away, we will have to take one or trade down. It's pretty feasible as the demand for Quinn or Johnson could be very tempting for some top 12 NFL team. We won't go any lower than that.

I still say it comes down to free agency. I am neither pro or anti Quinn/Russell. With our salary cap space, if we can bring in 3 studs, i.e. Dielman, A. Thomas (as a DE possibly), N. Clements, etc. or any other OL, then I trust Savage to take his pick in round number 1. If that ends up being Quinn, Russell or Peterson, than I know he has done his homework and is comfortable with the choice. He has two drafts under his belt now, and I consider both Edwards and Wimbley to be solid picks.

BUT, if he decides to add Thomas with the first pick AND take 1-2 OL in FA then I would back that as well, with the hope that the qb/rb positions are addressed next year, because I am still solid with thinking that Fry is not a starter in this league, but a very solid backup, and Droughns has seen better days and was never an elite back. (I am selfish and want my LT or LJ, what can I say :D )

ChazMonk
02-17-2007, 02:04 PM
I don't post much, but am always reading up on my Brown's, so here is some tidbits I have come up with regarding what I think, though of course I am no expert.

I like to think I am always loyal to the players on my teams, so bear that in mind when I say this: If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we possibly be happy with Droughns and Fry as our starting RB and QB respectively? Droughns will never be an elite back and Fry will never be a Manning or Favre (I know, few QB's are, but why can't we strive for it, instead of being the Raven's of 2000 with Dilfer or the Bears of this year). So why are so many people against picking a Russell, Quinn or Peterson in the first round.

If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we be happy with a sub-par offensive line not allowing any of our quarterback's or running back's any chance (seemingly) to do their jobs correctly year after year?

True, but to that I say our best bet is FA for the line and picks 2-7. Getting an outstanding QB and RB would be more realistic with the 1st round pick. And my main point is we will not win a super bowl with our current qb and rb situation, so why not strive for the best at those positions as well? I for one have never understood all the hoopla surrounding Fry, not that I think he is terrible. And when was the last time the Browns had a "blue chip" RB? And why not? I know the line is to blame as well, but I for one am completely tired of the 31st ranked running attack in the league every year.

I totally agree we need the trenches fixed to go to the next level, but having an outstanding backfield would be nice as well, and would even stoke the interest of fans.

So basically we both think that we need to strive for a great backfield and o-line (obviously :roll: ) but there's an issue with money and only 1 pick for an elite player. I feel that o-line is a more pressing need, but, don't get me wrong, I would not be upset at drafting AP in the 1st round. However, I'm still on Charlie's bandwagon and will be ticked off immensely if we take Quinn or Russel.

Also, look at Tampa Bay about 5 years ago. Who did they have behind center? Brad johnson with Warrick Dunn behind him? That's hardly great. Granted, they had an amazing defense, and it is a rare occurrence that a team wins the super bowl without an elite RB or QB, but it can be done.

Lastly, you've prompted me to change my sig, although I'm still putting Thomases name first. :lol:

First, I'm glad I inspired someone today :D . Secondly, I honestly think there are some pretty elite/solid OL that will be around for our second pick. I don't feel the same way about the skill positions we have discussed. So here is my sad attempt at my perfect draft (which is far from perfect because I can't make up my mind....) Again, these will change with who we pick up in FA

1. Russell/Quinn/Peterson/trade down (and option I like, and take Okoye or Carriker or Branch)
2. Grubbs/Blalock
3. Kalil/M. Bush

Fresh
02-17-2007, 02:31 PM
I don't think you can rule out Quinn. He would be a huge upgrade over Frye. Peterson is a huge risk, he looks good on paper but couldn't even get through a college season for the last 2 years. What good is he if he can't stay on the field?? Thomas will probably be drafted by Detroit.
I think it is going to come down to player's workouts and personal interviews. If Quinn passes with flying colours, he'll be our pick , if not, then it's Johnson or a trade down, because after Russell, Thomas, Quinn and Johnson, it's a pretty good dropoff in talent to the #5 prospect. These 4 guys are the elite prospects in this draft, at least before the combine and personal workouts, so unless some player blows the scouts away, we will have to take one or trade down. It's pretty feasible as the demand for Quinn or Johnson could be very tempting for some top 12 NFL team. We won't go any lower than that.

I'm not ruling Quinn out, I just want to :lol:

Both of Peterson's injuries were freak accidents, not at all related, and are the types of injuries that do not linger, so I don't think that his injury problem's are a huge concern.

I agree that right now it seems like Detroit will take Joe Thomas, but the draft is still a long time away and hopefully something will change their minds. (At least I hope so)

Johnson as our pick? Last time I checked Matt Millen wasn't a part of our front office. :lol: But I agree with the huge drop-off in talent, which would probably make it easier to trade our pick. If we could trade it for an extra 3rd round pick and still get Branch, then we could have helped our trenches just as much as we would've without the trade in the first 3 rounds while still getting Michael Bush. Not a bad day 1.

Iamcanadian
02-17-2007, 03:12 PM
I don't think you can rule out Quinn. He would be a huge upgrade over Frye. Peterson is a huge risk, he looks good on paper but couldn't even get through a college season for the last 2 years. What good is he if he can't stay on the field?? Thomas will probably be drafted by Detroit.
I think it is going to come down to player's workouts and personal interviews. If Quinn passes with flying colours, he'll be our pick , if not, then it's Johnson or a trade down, because after Russell, Thomas, Quinn and Johnson, it's a pretty good dropoff in talent to the #5 prospect. These 4 guys are the elite prospects in this draft, at least before the combine and personal workouts, so unless some player blows the scouts away, we will have to take one or trade down. It's pretty feasible as the demand for Quinn or Johnson could be very tempting for some top 12 NFL team. We won't go any lower than that.

I'm not ruling Quinn out, I just want to :lol:

Both of Peterson's injuries were freak accidents, not at all related, and are the types of injuries that do not linger, so I don't think that his injury problem's are a huge concern.

I agree that right now it seems like Detroit will take Joe Thomas, but the draft is still a long time away and hopefully something will change their minds. (At least I hope so)

Johnson as our pick? Last time I checked Matt Millen wasn't a part of our front office. :lol: But I agree with the huge drop-off in talent, which would probably make it easier to trade our pick. If we could trade it for an extra 3rd round pick and still get Branch, then we could have helped our trenches just as much as we would've without the trade in the first 3 rounds while still getting Michael Bush. Not a bad day 1.

I disagree on Peterson, his running style means he is going to take a lot of big hits. If he couldn't stay healthy for 2 years in college, he'll have a hard time taking punishment as a pro. He's a huge risk to draft and we simply cannot be taking risks with the #3/4 pick in the draft. If he proves to be brittle as a pro, this franchise will have wasted an opportunity to advance and it would be 2009/2010 before we would recover. It's simply not worth the risk for a rebuilding franchise and I seriously doubt we take him.

dlions20
02-17-2007, 06:24 PM
I thought our secondary was a bright spot this season, and, when healthy, I believe it to be a top 10 secondary in the league. Granted, we are missing another good starting corner opposite Bodden, who is a top ten corner when healthy. And we have a strong core of safeties, led by Sean Jones who is an elite safety and the best player on the Brown's.


Just another Browns fan horribly overrating his own team. Be realistic.

Bodden (despite being a good player now) isnt near the top 10 in the league!

Sean Jones is nowhere near an elite safety, I have no clue why you even think this. Hes a solid up and coming player so far.

And to even think the Browns (when healthy) are a top 10 unit in the backfield is crazy. The stats speak for themselves. We are weak in that category.

Sean Jones our best player? Hopefully you ment on deffense and even then its not true. Wimbley won our deffensive player of the year, voted by teamates. And even then Andra Davis is better and more productive than Jones.

keylime_5
02-17-2007, 07:18 PM
You got the wrong read on Jones, Montainya....Jones was a playmaker in our secondary and should have made the pro bowl - in fact he probably would've been a top vote getter if he played on a good defense like San Diego or Baltimore instead of us. Jones is on his way to being elite though he isn't there yet, and he is 100000x better than Andra Davis on defense.

Bodden is near the top 10 in the league as a CB despite your misconception, if we won games in 2005 he would've went to the probowl then. If we add Clements then the young and talented D-backfield of Bodden-Pool-Jones-Clements could have the pontential to be one of the top secondaries in the NFL

stl9erfan
02-17-2007, 07:21 PM
I thought our secondary was a bright spot this season, and, when healthy, I believe it to be a top 10 secondary in the league. Granted, we are missing another good starting corner opposite Bodden, who is a top ten corner when healthy. And we have a strong core of safeties, led by Sean Jones who is an elite safety and the best player on the Brown's.


Just another Browns fan horribly overrating his own team. Be realistic.

Bodden (despite being a good player now) isnt near the top 10 in the league!

Sean Jones is nowhere near an elite safety, I have no clue why you even think this. Hes a solid up and coming player so far.

And to even think the Browns (when healthy) are a top 10 unit in the backfield is crazy. The stats speak for themselves. We are weak in that category.

Sean Jones our best player? Hopefully you ment on deffense and even then its not true. Wimbley won our deffensive player of the year, voted by teamates. And even then Andra Davis is better and more productive than Jones.

statisticaly, our secondary wasnt that good. if you actually watched the browns games you would know that is b/c our DL doesnt provide enough pressure on the QB. bodden is one of the better coverage corner's in the league. says so ocho cinco.

while we may not be a top 10 coverage unit, we are pretty good. give Brodney Pool a year or 2 to start, and we'd have one, if not the best, saftey duo in the league. and to say that wimbley is the best player on the team would be an overated statement. while he showed one of the best performances of a rookie in browns history, sean jones is also one of the best players on the team. thats a matter of opinion. and he WILL be and elite saftey. brodney pool will also be an elite saftey, says so phil savage.

to say that davis was more productive than jones is an overating a player. while davis is good, he racks up 100+ tackles a year b/c our Dline sucks. and with 100 so tackles, less then 10 were for a loss. and davis didnt show up untill half way thru the season. davis is consistant. a decent coverage LB. he's not a playmaker. sean jones is a future pro bowler. mark my words.

dlions20
02-17-2007, 07:31 PM
Whatever excuses you guys want to keep making as to why Jones isnt elite/made the pro bowl, why are secondary was bad, why Bodden didnt make the pro bowl/isnt quit top 10 yet, it doesnt matter! The fact is its not true yet, and weather it will be or not, the fact is its just not true right now.

Elite safeties = Reed, Dawkins, Palamolu, etc.......

Sean Jones didnt even make the pro bowl. He might be an all pro one day, but that doesnt even make him near elite.

i can name 15 DB's that are better than Bodeen despite him being a very good player, hes not close to top 10.

And if Bodden was top 10, and Jones was elite, then our secondary wouldnt have gave up so many TD's.

stl9erfan
02-17-2007, 08:10 PM
Whatever excuses you guys want to keep making as to why Jones isnt elite/made the pro bowl, why are secondary was bad, why Bodden didnt make the pro bowl/isnt quit top 10 yet, it doesnt matter! The fact is its not true yet, and weather it will be or not, the fact is its just not true right now.

Elite safeties = Reed, Dawkins, Palamolu, etc.......

Sean Jones didnt even make the pro bowl. He might be an all pro one day, but that doesnt even make him near elite.

i can name 15 DB's that are better than Bodeen despite him being a very good player, hes not close to top 10.

And if Bodden was top 10, and Jones was elite, then our secondary wouldnt have gave up so many TD's.

one reason why jones didnt make it to the pro bowl is b/c the browns are not a nationally televised team yet. we dont play monday nights. ppl vote for who they watch. the whole country doesnt watch the browns yet. just from here to pittsburgh.

thats great that you can name 15 db's better than bodden. thats pretty good. if there's 4 Dbacks in each standard defensive alignment, that means there are 128 starting DB's in the league. so if there are 15 better than bodden, that makes him the 16th right? i'll take that.

2 players dont make a secondary, thats why we let so many TD's. holly is proven to be valuable, but not a starter, and as much as i like russel, he's slow.

as far as the players that you mentioned(dawkins, palamolu, reed) ED and Troy belong to a great defense. making them that much better. and dawkins belongs to a fairly stout secondary. good players are made elite by the help of other good players. jones is a good player with a s*** DL, 2 rookie LB's. one on the decline. and one that shows up but doesn't make plays. not to mention that jones is THE ONLY PLAYER on defense to start every game.

on another note, ed reed was drafted by savage. (see above posts)savage also says that pool is and elite player. i'll take his word for it.

Freddy G
02-17-2007, 08:46 PM
I would actually like to hear who the 15 better than Bodden are.
I wouldn't say top 10, but top 15 is a definite.

As for Jones, of course he isn't elite, he has only started on year. However, he is one of the better young safeties in the NFL, and had his play not trailed off a little in the last 3-5 games, he would have had a legitamate shot at the pro bowl (if people knew about him).

Russell is solid, and important to our secodanary.

I don't think CB is big need this season, with Tucker coaching them, we can get away with average talent. We need to work on the trenches, then see what we have outside, because it all starts up front.

I say let Pool and Holley battle for the #2 and 3 corner spots this year and maybe next depending on how much more work our front seven needs. Then move Pool to FS and draft a legit corner.

Iamcanadian
02-17-2007, 11:57 PM
Whatever excuses you guys want to keep making as to why Jones isnt elite/made the pro bowl, why are secondary was bad, why Bodden didnt make the pro bowl/isnt quit top 10 yet, it doesnt matter! The fact is its not true yet, and weather it will be or not, the fact is its just not true right now.

Elite safeties = Reed, Dawkins, Palamolu, etc.......

Sean Jones didnt even make the pro bowl. He might be an all pro one day, but that doesnt even make him near elite.

i can name 15 DB's that are better than Bodeen despite him being a very good player, hes not close to top 10.

And if Bodden was top 10, and Jones was elite, then our secondary wouldnt have gave up so many TD's.

I agree, there is a huge difference between potential and how they are playing now. While the Cleveland secondary has real potential to get better, they aren't there yet, not even close, that's just wishful thinking.
Can Bodden, Jones, and Pool turn into solid pros, I think so but it will take time and unless the DL gets better, we won't be sending too many guys to Pro Bowls.

dlions20
02-18-2007, 02:12 AM
you guys are in love with "potential". Potential is what every NFL player has, not just Jones, Poole etc....

You think there the only 2 young safetys in this league noone has heard of? When they deserve it, thats when people will hear of them.

dlions20
02-18-2007, 02:19 AM
on another note, ed reed was drafted by savage. (see above posts)savage also says that pool is and elite player. i'll take his word for it.


So that means Reed = Poole because Savage drafted both?

Savage has.....NEVER said Poole is an Elite player. Maybe a top talent, there is a 100% difference.

Westbourne
02-18-2007, 01:03 PM
1. Russell/Quinn/Peterson/trade down (and option I like, and take Okoye or Carriker or Branch)
2. Grubbs/Blalock
3. Kalil/M. Bush

Round 1: agree about Russell/Quinn/Peterson. Okoye won't make a good 3/4 DE. Branch is allright, Carriker, I don't know about him THAT early.

Besides, it has already been stated from Phil that this draft will focus on the Offense. Add in that Phil is a BPA guy, and we'll take JR/BQ/AP.

Round 2: Both of them are guards. While you really never know what Phil will do, history has shown us that he won't pick guards until day 2 (rounds 4-7). We have been 'talking' to Staley, Ugoh, Harris, Free, Marten, etc. Tackles that are sapose to be there in R2. <---Source Cleveland Plain Dealer.

We could see abriamri or bush or someone, but offense is the focus point of the 07 draft.

Round 3: Kalil is an interior lineman as well who is basically a jeff faine copycat which didn't fare well here. Plus with Bentley, I don't see us taking a long term option at C. Fraley is just the scapegoat for another year.

I do like Bush though. He can be used anywhere, RB/WR. He has the hight/speed/hands to be an WR and has had the success at BIG EAST Louisville @ HB. It would also give Russell/Frye/Quinn/Anderson or whoever else COULD be our starting QB next year another target out of the backfield since he's one of the best HB receivers.


Lastly on the secondary debate.

It's not bad! They were injured and bagged up. They didn't get any help form the DLINE, nor the offense for the situations the Defense was put in.

“It wasn’t that hard a pick. We really feel good about him. I think he’s going to be a pleasant surprise for us in a year or so. He’s the total package.”

That is what was said about the pick of Pool. I couldn't find the word 'elite' anywhere, but that little Phil Savage quote is enough for me to think he'll be something special.

Also, Montainya, I would like to hear what corners are better than a HEALTHY Bodden. Chad Johnson/Ocho Cinco loves to go up against him since it's such a challenge.

Lastly, if you are going to say that if you didn't go to the pro bowl, your aren't good or whatever statement you're trying to make, than you, are, an idiot! I'd love for you to tell me Tom Brady is a bust since he didn't win the super bowl this year nor did he go to Hawaii.

Pro Bowlers are fan favorites, not people who are the best of the best at their position. Cleveland is not a nationally televised team. Hell all of our games weren't even shown in northeastern Ohio! Hard for people in California to consider Jones a fan favorite and give him a free vacation to the 50th state.

Our secondary is not only good, but loaded with potential. With that said, our depth is in question and another EXPERIENCED corner should be brought in to ease the loss of Dutch, and not having Baxtor.

dlions20
02-18-2007, 03:17 PM
Heres the facts, the safeties that made the pro bowl are currently better than Sean Jones. The Browns not being on TV much is an excuse. Theres plenty of horrible teams that have good players make it out there.

Jones stats looked above average because we were on deffense so much.

Fresh
02-18-2007, 06:18 PM
Whatever excuses you guys want to keep making as to why Jones isnt elite/made the pro bowl, why are secondary was bad, why Bodden didnt make the pro bowl/isnt quit top 10 yet, it doesnt matter! The fact is its not true yet, and weather it will be or not, the fact is its just not true right now.

Elite safeties = Reed, Dawkins, Palamolu, etc.......

Sean Jones didnt even make the pro bowl. He might be an all pro one day, but that doesnt even make him near elite.

i can name 15 DB's that are better than Bodeen despite him being a very good player, hes not close to top 10.

And if Bodden was top 10, and Jones was elite, then our secondary wouldnt have gave up so many TD's.

one reason why jones didnt make it to the pro bowl is b/c the browns are not a nationally televised team yet. we dont play monday nights. ppl vote for who they watch. the whole country doesnt watch the browns yet. just from here to pittsburgh.

thats great that you can name 15 db's better than bodden. thats pretty good. if there's 4 Dbacks in each standard defensive alignment, that means there are 128 starting DB's in the league. so if there are 15 better than bodden, that makes him the 16th right? i'll take that.

2 players dont make a secondary, thats why we let so many TD's. holly is proven to be valuable, but not a starter, and as much as i like russel, he's slow.

as far as the players that you mentioned(dawkins, palamolu, reed) ED and Troy belong to a great defense. making them that much better. and dawkins belongs to a fairly stout secondary. good players are made elite by the help of other good players. jones is a good player with a s*** DL, 2 rookie LB's. one on the decline. and one that shows up but doesn't make plays. not to mention that jones is THE ONLY PLAYER on defense to start every game.

on another note, ed reed was drafted by savage. (see above posts)savage also says that pool is and elite player. i'll take his word for it.

My thoughts exactly JSimmsy. Also, I'd like to take back my comment that Jones is an elite safety, since he has only started one year. However, he did have an elite year and if he continues to play like he did this past season year after year, he should be considered an elite safety.

Also, he hasn't gone unnoticed. I believe an SI writer put Jones as a starter on his All-Pro defensive team and called it "probably the easiest decision I had to make." And it can't be said enough: Our Dline was horrendous and no secondary can look good when the QB has that much time to throw.

dlions20
02-18-2007, 06:44 PM
RoyHall, I saw that you had us taking Victor Abiamiri in RD2. I feel the same way and really think he could be a monster in a year or 2 to replace McGinest.

I really excited about the fact that he could still be there in early RD2.

dlions20
02-18-2007, 07:03 PM
http://www.realgmfootball.com/src_wiretap_archives/4053/20070218/texans_shopping_carr/

For a third rounder I would take David Carr. Preferably a 4rth but...

I want Frye to have competition.[/quote]

stl9erfan
02-18-2007, 09:02 PM
i really do play the role of having anti posts. lol

anyways. i'd be happy with taking a LB in the second rnd. but i feel, personally, that the gap of good talent on this team needs to be more filled before we go picking up more LB's in the second rnd. we need ppl for the trenches. i'd love to have carriker. even tank tyler in the second rnd. or staley. even ugoh. somebody for the trenches is what i am looking forward to.

dlions20
02-18-2007, 09:22 PM
carriker. even tank tyler in the second rnd. or staley. even ugoh.

Carriker will not get past the 1st round.

Tank Tyler could, but would just be Ted Washingtons back-up for most the season.

Ugoh played horrible in the senior bowl and was really esposed, if we drafted him he wouldnt even play this year.

The DL is a hard place for a rookie to produce compared to a LB. We will probably target a DE in FA.

stl9erfan
02-18-2007, 09:33 PM
carriker. even tank tyler in the second rnd. or staley. even ugoh.

Carriker will not get past the 1st round.

Tank Tyler could, but would just be Ted Washingtons back-up for most the season.

Ugoh played horrible in the senior bowl and was really esposed, if we drafted him he wouldnt even play this year.

The DL is a hard place for a rookie to produce compared to a LB. We will probably target a DE in FA.

you're right, carriker will more than likely go in rnd 1.

teddy can't play a whole game. who do we have that will take his spot when he is out of breath every 3 plays? nobody.

ugoh was just a suggestion. but staley is 100% possiblity. and that would solve our other T spot.

dlions20
02-18-2007, 09:45 PM
but staley is 100% possiblity

IMO, Staley is the same player as Eric Winston. There athletic (use to be TE's), but just dont get the job done like you exspect. Staley is a project and will be drafted on potential. He would also not play this year for the Browns unless we have injuries.

RD2 position contributers could be a SLB, CB, or OG right away. Most other positions would take time.

You mentioned Washington not being able to play much, its not like McGinest can either.

A SLb is more of a skilled psoition than a NT or 3-4 DE. You can get impact DL later in the draft. Its harder to find a SLB in this draft.

stl9erfan
02-18-2007, 10:25 PM
in a 3-4 Defense. the DL job is to take the blocks for the LB's to get by more freely. lets take a look at some of the best 3/4 d's in the league.

New England. NT spot led by wilfork. has the help of seymour. this DL makes 31+ year old LB's look REALLY good. the good play of this DL make offenseive lines double team the constantly. wilfork was a first rnd pick.

San Deigo. NT spot led by williams. regarded as one of the most disruptive NT's in the league. same situation. he wasnt a first rnd pick. but he's damn good. two good DE's help this cause. and makes merrimans job ALOT easier, which is why he will be one of the best LB's ever to play the game.

Pittsburgh. NT led by Hampton. has no help from a DE. first rnd pick. he is consitantly double teamed, letting the likes of farrior and foote run freely. this team constantly applies pressure against both run and pass. with just one good DLmen.

Baltimore. NT led by Ngata. a first rnd pick. Ray lewis said himself that this team better draft him to make is job that much easier. he was an upgrade over Teddy.

my point is that the the LB in the 3/4 is a key spot. but the the NT is the heart of if all. if he doesnt supply a good rush, then he will only be single covered. meaning the LB wont be able to do anything. EVERYTHING STARTS IN THE TRENCHES.

Westbourne
02-18-2007, 10:28 PM
but staley is 100% possiblity

IMO, Staley is the same player as Eric Winston. There athletic (use to be TE's), but just dont get the job done like you exspect. Staley is a project and will be drafted on potential. He would also not play this year for the Browns unless we have injuries.

Do you not realize how good Winston was before his injury? You said Staley is the same, meaning a dominant Left Tackle? That's what Winston was before he hurt his knee. He was even projected to be a top 15 pick.

Overall: Winston is a former tight end who moved to left tackle as a sophomore in 2003. He was in the process of becoming a dominant left tackle towards the end of that season, but suffered a season-ending left knee injury four games into the 2004 season. Winston returned to the starting lineup as a senior in 2005, starting all 12 games at left tackle. Winston is a former tight end who shows impressive athletic ability for his size. He also is a mature player, who will work hard to maximize his physical tools at the next level. Had he not suffered the injury as a junior, Winston likely would have left school early and could have been a high first round pick in 2005. However, Winston was not the same dominating player in 2005 as he was prior to his 2004 season-ending knee injury.

Winston was never the same after his knee problems (like a lot of people, a la, Winslow who said his knee has never been the same). To say Staley will be like him is a huge plus for him considering how many teams lushed after Winston HOPING he could work past his injury and become that dominant LT.

They were both TE's turned LT. Both big. Both fast (winston not quite like Staley). Both very athletic due to their size.

He's dedicated to the game, gained 85lbs without losing any athletic ability to be able to be a force in football.

Lastly, who would beat out Staley if we drafted him? Tucker? Sowells? Butler? It would only be between him and Butler.

RD2 position contributers could be a SLB, CB, or OG right away. Most other positions would take time.

You mentioned Washington not being able to play much, its not like McGinest can either.

A SLb is more of a skilled psoition than a NT or 3-4 DE. You can get impact DL later in the draft. Its harder to find a SLB in this draft.

Not an exact quote, but something along the lines of "Offense will be the focus point of the 2007 draft." ~ Phil Savage.

The last guard to be drafted in round 2 by Phil Savage.....none.
The last guard to be drafted on the first day by Phil Savage.....Casey Rabach, by the Newsome/Savage tandem (also the only guard/center drafted by Savage on day 1)
It's been established that Phil thinks guards drafted on the second day can be just as or even more productive than the guards drafted first round. It is very unlikely we draft interior lineman first day.

McGinest not being able to play the whole game...It has already been stated that Williams WILL compete for the starting job with Willie in preseason. source: Phil's press conference. Wille will probably start but if Leon is competing against him, I guess he'll be able to relieve him as well? Leon doesn't have the preferred weight/height to play there, but Brees and Steve Smith are considered to small and they seem to do alright...

Lastly, please name one TRUE nose tackle for a 3/4 defense in this draft.

Branch, considered a 3/4 end that could be a serviceable DT. Tank, maybe. Brown and Soliai would be good fits but aren't first day material.

Westbourne
02-18-2007, 10:31 PM
in a 3-4 Defense. the DL job is to take the blocks for the LB's to get by more freely. lets take a look at some of the best 3/4 d's in the league.

New England. NT spot led by wilfork. has the help of seymour. this DL makes 31+ year old LB's look REALLY good. the good play of this DL make offenseive lines double team the constantly. wilfork was a first rnd pick.

San Deigo. NT spot led by williams. regarded as one of the most disruptive NT's in the league. same situation. he wasnt a first rnd pick. but he's damn good. two good DE's help this cause. and makes merrimans job ALOT easier, which is why he will be one of the best LB's ever to play the game.

Pittsburgh. NT led by Hampton. has no help from a DE. first rnd pick. he is consitantly double teamed, letting the likes of farrior and foote run freely. this team constantly applies pressure against both run and pass. with just one good DLmen.

Baltimore. NT led by Ngata. a first rnd pick. Ray lewis said himself that this team better draft him to make is job that much easier. he was an upgrade over Teddy.

my point is that the the LB in the 3/4 is a key spot. but the the NT is the heart of if all. if he doesnt supply a good rush, then he will only be single covered. meaning the LB wont be able to do anything. EVERYTHING STARTS IN THE TRENCHES.

Are you trying to say that all those teams run a successful 3/4 defense and one key element is that they all have a DT that is great along with good linebackers (which the browns have)? AMAZING...

I wonder if it's a coincidence?

dlions20
02-18-2007, 10:34 PM
Lastly, please name one TRUE nose tackle for a 3/4 defense in this draft.

There are 2 very good NT prospects in next years draft we should target.

Secondly who cares what Savage has did in past drafts? Does it mean he will do it this time? HE NEVER HAD TO draft interior OL early with the Ravens because they managed to get a solid interior through FA. The Browns havent done that due to injuries so obviously we could look to do it in the draft.

If Savage wasnt interested in a day 1 OG/OC, when did he have his scouts interview just about every day 1 guard?

Quit speculating based on the past, because it isnt a gaurantee like you make it seem.

Fresh
02-19-2007, 08:56 AM
i really do play the role of having anti posts. lol

anyways. i'd be happy with taking a LB in the second rnd. but i feel, personally, that the gap of good talent on this team needs to be more filled before we go picking up more LB's in the second rnd. we need ppl for the trenches. i'd love to have carriker. even tank tyler in the second rnd. or staley. even ugoh. somebody for the trenches is what i am looking forward to.

I hope we get help for the trenches with our 1st pick, but if we don't, we almost have to in rnd 2. Again, everything depends on what we do in free agency. I think we have to target another NT in free agency as there really aren't many good NT prospects in the draft.

I think we need to keep our options open to take the best player available sometimes, even if he's not at a position that we really need. I don't want our hand to be forced to take a player who does not have good value at a particular spot just because we absolutely need someone at his position. This scenario would most likely happen with a NT, as there are so few of them.

dlions20
02-19-2007, 11:19 AM
Getting Victor is almost like getting a trench player. He will be exspected to put his hand on the line sometimes just like a DE would.

Fresh
02-19-2007, 01:29 PM
Getting Victor is almost like getting a trench player. He will be exspected to put his hand on the line sometimes just like a DE would.

True, but drafting abiamari won't help our starting 3 dlinemen get any better. But, I still want to draft him as I believe he is a 1st round talent and you can never get enough LB's in a 3-4 scheme. What you said is also a good point as to why we should draft him.

IrishBrowns
02-19-2007, 01:44 PM
here's a little thing, fill in the blanks!


1) I have my fingers and toes crossed that if we keep the #3/#4 pick, we'll use it on _______________.

2) I'll throw a HUGE fit if we keep the #3/#4 pick and use it on _______________.

3) If I can't get the guy I really want with that pick, the player I want next most with that #3/#4 pick is _______________.

4) With the eight (I'm guessing, after compensatory picks) draft picks we'll have, I'd like to see about _____ used on offense and _____ used on defense.

5) If we trade down to the middle of the first round, the guy who might be there I'd really love is _______________.

6) But if we trade down to the middle of the first round, we better not do it to take _______________.

7) The mid-round prospect I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is _______________.

8) The late-round sleeper I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is _______________.

9) I'll consider this a successful draft if we can improve our ________________ unit/position.

10) The prospect I'd bet the farm on being a star (if I had to) is _______________.

11) Likewise, the guy I'd bet will be a huge giant bust is _______________.

12) The guy who I think will get taken way too high is _______________.

13) But _______________ will fall farther than he should.

14) The one thing we absolutely don't need is another _______________.

15) My one pet player for this draft - the guy nobody is talking about who I know is on his way to great things - is _______________.

Fresh
02-19-2007, 02:06 PM
here's a little thing, fill in the blanks!

1) I have my fingers and toes crossed that if we keep the #3/#4 pick, we'll use it on _______________.

2) I'll throw a HUGE fit if we keep the #3/#4 pick and use it on _______________.

3) If I can't get the guy I really want with that pick, the player I want next most with that #3/#4 pick is _______________.

4) With the eight (I'm guessing, after compensatory picks) draft picks we'll have, I'd like to see about _____ used on offense and _____ used on defense.

5) If we trade down to the middle of the first round, the guy who might be there I'd really love is _______________.

6) But if we trade down to the middle of the first round, we better not do it to take _______________.

7) The mid-round prospect I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is _______________.

8) The late-round sleeper I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is _______________.

9) I'll consider this a successful draft if we can improve our ________________ unit/position.

10) The prospect I'd bet the farm on being a star (if I had to) is _______________.

11) Likewise, the guy I'd bet will be a huge giant bust is _______________.

12) The guy who I think will get taken way too high is _______________.

13) But _______________ will fall farther than he should.

14) The one thing we absolutely don't need is another _______________.

15) My one pet player for this draft - the guy nobody is talking about who I know is on his way to great things - is _______________.

1. Joe Thomas
2. Brady Quinn
3. Adrian Peterson
4. Depends... 4/5 on offense 3/4 on defense
5. Adam Carriker
6. Amobi Okoye
7. Michael Bush
8. Roy Hall
9. O-line
10. Calvin Johnson
11. Dwayne Bowe
12. Tony Hunt
13. Troy Smith
14. Kick Returner :lol:
15. Roy Hall :mrgreen:

Freddy G
02-19-2007, 02:19 PM
here's a little thing, fill in the blanks!


1) I have my fingers and toes crossed that if we keep the #3/#4 pick, we'll use it on _____AD__________.

2) I'll throw a HUGE fit if we keep the #3/#4 pick and use it on ___a QB____________.

3) If I can't get the guy I really want with that pick, the player I want next most with that #3/#4 pick is ____Alan Branch___________.

4) With the eight (I'm guessing, after compensatory picks) draft picks we'll have, I'd like to see about __2___ used on offense and _the rest____ used on defense.

5) If we trade down to the middle of the first round, the guy who might be there I'd really love is _____Adam Carriker__________.

6) But if we trade down to the middle of the first round, we better not do it to take ____Amobi Okoye or a DB___________.

7) The mid-round prospect I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is _____Dan Bazuin or Higgins__________.

8) The late-round sleeper I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is ____Louis Leonard___________.

9) I'll consider this a successful draft if we can improve our _______DL_________ unit/position.

10) The prospect I'd bet the farm on being a star (if I had to) is _____AD, CJ, and Gaines Adams__________.

11) Likewise, the guy I'd bet will be a huge giant bust is ______Amobi Okoye or Leon Hall_________.

12) The guy who I think will get taken way too high is _____Amobi Okoye__________.

13) But ______Calvin Johnson_________ will fall farther than he should.

14) The one thing we absolutely don't need is another ____QB___________.

15) My one pet player for this draft - the guy nobody is talking about who I know is on his way to great things - is _____Higgins__________.

Fresh
02-19-2007, 02:29 PM
here's a little thing, fill in the blanks!


1) I have my fingers and toes crossed that if we keep the #3/#4 pick, we'll use it on _____AD__________.

2) I'll throw a HUGE fit if we keep the #3/#4 pick and use it on ___a QB____________.

3) If I can't get the guy I really want with that pick, the player I want next most with that #3/#4 pick is ____Alan Branch___________.

4) With the eight (I'm guessing, after compensatory picks) draft picks we'll have, I'd like to see about __2___ used on offense and _the rest____ used on defense.

5) If we trade down to the middle of the first round, the guy who might be there I'd really love is _____Adam Carriker__________.

6) But if we trade down to the middle of the first round, we better not do it to take ____Amobi Okoye or a DB___________.

7) The mid-round prospect I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is _____Dan Bazuin or Higgins__________.

8) The late-round sleeper I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is ____Louis Leonard___________.

9) I'll consider this a successful draft if we can improve our _______DL_________ unit/position.

10) The prospect I'd bet the farm on being a star (if I had to) is _____AD, CJ, and Gaines Adams__________.

11) Likewise, the guy I'd bet will be a huge giant bust is ______Amobi Okoye or Leon Hall_________.

12) The guy who I think will get taken way too high is _____Amobi Okoye__________.

13) But ______Calvin Johnson_________ will fall farther than he should.

14) The one thing we absolutely don't need is another ____QB___________.

15) My one pet player for this draft - the guy nobody is talking about who I know is on his way to great things - is _____Higgins__________.

Too bad on #4 as Phil said he's going offense. Do you think our D is that much worse than our Offense? You said you didn't want a DB (at least in the 1st) and we have quite a bit of depth at LB. Granted, our Dline is terrible but overall I think our defense is better than our offense.

So, where do you want the 6 pics on defense to go? All on D-line? By the way, I'm with you on Charlie Frye staying our starter.

jriles0522
02-19-2007, 02:56 PM
here's a little thing, fill in the blanks!


1) I have my fingers and toes crossed that if we keep the #3/#4 pick, we'll use it on ______AD, Quinn_________.

2) I'll throw a HUGE fit if we keep the #3/#4 pick and use it on _____Russell__________.

3) If I can't get the guy I really want with that pick, the player I want next most with that #3/#4 pick is ______Branch_________.

4) With the eight (I'm guessing, after compensatory picks) draft picks we'll have, I'd like to see about __4___ used on offense and ___4__ used on defense.

5) If we trade down to the middle of the first round, the guy who might be there I'd really love is _____carriker/lynch__________.

6) But if we trade down to the middle of the first round, we better not do it to take _____anyone but carriker or lynch__________.

7) The mid-round prospect I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is _____bush if we dont take peterson__________.

8) The late-round sleeper I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is ___ andy alleman____________.

9) I'll consider this a successful draft if we can improve our ______dline/oline__________ unit/position.

10) The prospect I'd bet the farm on being a star (if I had to) is ____pterson___________.

11) Likewise, the guy I'd bet will be a huge giant bust is _____paul posluzny__________.

12) The guy who I think will get taken way too high is ________gaines adams_______.

13) But ______quinn_________ will fall farther than he should.

14) The one thing we absolutely don't need is another ______tight end_________.

15) My one pet player for this draft - the guy nobody is talking about who I know is on his way to great things - is ____Sidney Rice___________.

stl9erfan
02-19-2007, 04:51 PM
here's a little thing, fill in the blanks!


1) I have my fingers and toes crossed that if we keep the #3/#4 pick, we'll use it on ___AP or Quinn___.

2) I'll throw a HUGE fit if we keep the #3/#4 pick and use it on _____Branch________.

3) If I can't get the guy I really want with that pick, the player I want next most with that #3/#4 pick is _____CJ________.

4) With the eight (I'm guessing, after compensatory picks) draft picks we'll have, I'd like to see about __4___ used on offense and __4___ used on defense.

5) If we trade down to the middle of the first round, the guy who might be there I'd really love is ____Carriker_____.

6) But if we trade down to the middle of the first round, we better not do it to take ____Okoye_____.

7) The mid-round prospect I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is ______Bush/Smith_________.

8) The late-round sleeper I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is ____no clue_____.

9) I'll consider this a successful draft if we can improve our _____DL/RB______ unit/position.

10) The prospect I'd bet the farm on being a star (if I had to) is ______CJ_________.
11) Likewise, the guy I'd bet will be a huge giant bust is _______Russel________.

12) The guy who I think will get taken way too high is ____Smith_____.

13) But ______Quinn_________ will fall farther than he should.

14) The one thing we absolutely don't need is another ____saftey_____.

15) My one pet player for this draft - the guy nobody is talking about who I know is on his way to great things - is ___i dont know____.

Freddy G
02-19-2007, 05:41 PM
here's a little thing, fill in the blanks!


1) I have my fingers and toes crossed that if we keep the #3/#4 pick, we'll use it on _____AD__________.

2) I'll throw a HUGE fit if we keep the #3/#4 pick and use it on ___a QB____________.

3) If I can't get the guy I really want with that pick, the player I want next most with that #3/#4 pick is ____Alan Branch___________.

4) With the eight (I'm guessing, after compensatory picks) draft picks we'll have, I'd like to see about __2___ used on offense and _the rest____ used on defense.

5) If we trade down to the middle of the first round, the guy who might be there I'd really love is _____Adam Carriker__________.

6) But if we trade down to the middle of the first round, we better not do it to take ____Amobi Okoye or a DB___________.

7) The mid-round prospect I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is _____Dan Bazuin or Higgins__________.

8) The late-round sleeper I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is ____Louis Leonard___________.

9) I'll consider this a successful draft if we can improve our _______DL_________ unit/position.

10) The prospect I'd bet the farm on being a star (if I had to) is _____AD, CJ, and Gaines Adams__________.

11) Likewise, the guy I'd bet will be a huge giant bust is ______Amobi Okoye or Leon Hall_________.

12) The guy who I think will get taken way too high is _____Amobi Okoye__________.

13) But ______Calvin Johnson_________ will fall farther than he should.

14) The one thing we absolutely don't need is another ____QB___________.

15) My one pet player for this draft - the guy nobody is talking about who I know is on his way to great things - is _____Higgins__________.

Too bad on #4 as Phil said he's going offense. Do you think our D is that much worse than our Offense? You said you didn't want a DB (at least in the 1st) and we have quite a bit of depth at LB. Granted, our Dline is terrible but overall I think our defense is better than our offense.

So, where do you want the 6 pics on defense to go? All on D-line? By the way, I'm with you on Charlie Frye staying our starter.


All we need on offense is two OL and a RB. I think we will get atleast 1 OL in FA, so there is the two picks.

I have always been a defensive type guy, and i would much rather have a dominating defense than a great offense. To even become respectable we need 2 starting DEs and another for the rotation, a starting NT, a starting SOLB, and eventually a corner or safety. That is at least 5 big wholes, not counting DB.

OL (and depth) is a lot easier to find than good DL, and we are in a prime spot to get a franchise running back. SOLB is hard to find and will require a high pick.

I just see defense (specifically the line) as our greatest need. I hope phil was just blowing a smokescreeen....he is sneaky cat.

dlions20
02-19-2007, 05:55 PM
All we need on offense is two OL and a RB

Our WR's are.....

Edwards - allways drops the big catch
JJ - getting old, prolly a #3 WR.
Northcutt - probably gone in FA
Cribbs - still learning, should be a #5 on most rosters
Wilson - didnt play much at all last year, and you really cant count on him right now.

Im thinking if Charlie is going to complete a pass ,we might need another WR also.

EVERY DB in the NFL will double Edwards knowing the others arent established threats. Braylon isnt good enough yet to beat a double team consistently.

Winslow will help, but hes still a TE.

With a deep class at WR, maybe we can get a contributer in RD3-4? But we might have greater needs and it wont be addressed.

Fresh
02-19-2007, 05:59 PM
here's a little thing, fill in the blanks!


1) I have my fingers and toes crossed that if we keep the #3/#4 pick, we'll use it on _____AD__________.

2) I'll throw a HUGE fit if we keep the #3/#4 pick and use it on ___a QB____________.

3) If I can't get the guy I really want with that pick, the player I want next most with that #3/#4 pick is ____Alan Branch___________.

4) With the eight (I'm guessing, after compensatory picks) draft picks we'll have, I'd like to see about __2___ used on offense and _the rest____ used on defense.

5) If we trade down to the middle of the first round, the guy who might be there I'd really love is _____Adam Carriker__________.

6) But if we trade down to the middle of the first round, we better not do it to take ____Amobi Okoye or a DB___________.

7) The mid-round prospect I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is _____Dan Bazuin or Higgins__________.

8) The late-round sleeper I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is ____Louis Leonard___________.

9) I'll consider this a successful draft if we can improve our _______DL_________ unit/position.

10) The prospect I'd bet the farm on being a star (if I had to) is _____AD, CJ, and Gaines Adams__________.

11) Likewise, the guy I'd bet will be a huge giant bust is ______Amobi Okoye or Leon Hall_________.

12) The guy who I think will get taken way too high is _____Amobi Okoye__________.

13) But ______Calvin Johnson_________ will fall farther than he should.

14) The one thing we absolutely don't need is another ____QB___________.

15) My one pet player for this draft - the guy nobody is talking about who I know is on his way to great things - is _____Higgins__________.

Too bad on #4 as Phil said he's going offense. Do you think our D is that much worse than our Offense? You said you didn't want a DB (at least in the 1st) and we have quite a bit of depth at LB. Granted, our Dline is terrible but overall I think our defense is better than our offense.

So, where do you want the 6 pics on defense to go? All on D-line? By the way, I'm with you on Charlie Frye staying our starter.


All we need on offense is two OL and a RB. I think we will get atleast 1 OL in FA, so there is the two picks.

I have always been a defensive type guy, and i would much rather have a dominating defense than a great offense. To even become respectable we need 2 starting DEs and another for the rotation, a starting NT, a starting SOLB, and eventually a corner or safety. That is at least 5 big wholes, not counting DB.

OL (and depth) is a lot easier to find than good DL, and we are in a prime spot to get a franchise running back. SOLB is hard to find and will require a high pick.

I just see defense (specifically the line) as our greatest need. I hope phil was just blowing a smokescreeen....he is sneaky cat.

I think we should get at least 3 olinemen combined in the draft and FA along with the RB, but I guess that is all we really need, with maybe a late round WR. And I don't think we need a safety, although a corner would be good. So, assuming we get 1 dline and 1 oline in FA, our biggest needs our still in the trenches, 1/2 on each side of the ball in the draft. Also, a RB and maybe a WR. On defense we can get a corner and a LB, but I still think 6 D and 2 O is a little extreme. But, after reading your post and thinking about it for a while, 5 D and 3 O does seem like it makes the most sense to me. Also, I think Orpheus Roye was our best player on the D-line last year and we won't have to replace him to have a great Dline in a few years.

Fresh
02-19-2007, 06:03 PM
All we need on offense is two OL and a RB

Our WR's are.....

Edwards - allways drops the big catch
JJ - getting old, prolly a #3 WR.
Northcutt - probably gone in FA
Cribbs - still learning, should be a #5 on most rosters
Wilson - didnt play much at all last year, and you really cant count on him right now.

Im thinking if Charlie is going to complete a pass ,we might need another WR also.

EVERY DB in the NFL will double Edwards knowing the others arent established threats. Braylon isnt good enough yet to beat a double team consistently.

Winslow will help, but hes still a TE.

With a deep class at WR, maybe we can get a contributer in RD3-4? But we might have greater needs and it wont be addressed.

Roy Hall! Or I guess all you guys like Higgins, but I've never seen him play. I agree, another WR would not hurt.

Freddy G
02-19-2007, 06:40 PM
K2 counts as a WR, he caught 80 some balls.

Be Easy, K2, JJ, Wilson is good for now. I agree WR is an eventual need, but i don't really count one for this season, as we need so much work everywhere else.

We only need two OL. Smith is good depth, as is Matua. Sowells has starting potential, and Butler is on the fence between starting and depth. We need starting OG, and preferably a starting caliber RT. 2 is all we need, but i agree 3 new guys would be nice, so i'll compromise 3 O, 5 D.

stl9erfan
02-19-2007, 07:05 PM
Also, I think Orpheus Roye was our best player on the D-line last year and we won't have to replace him to have a great Dline in a few years.

in a few years. he will be retired.

dlions20
02-19-2007, 08:45 PM
KW2 might have caught alot of balls, but is still being covered by LBs when he runs a route (occasional safety). WR's take the attention of CB's and safeties. We currently only have 1 WR on the roster that Frye will throw to and he stares him down like its a super model taking her cloths off.

Noone in the NFL will consider double teaming any of our other WR's.

We need t hat other double team threat. But I agree there are greater needs, just dont overlook the fact that OL and RB are our only offensive needs.

Savage wants us to have a good OL (I said the obvious). Unless we go FA route, which isnt a gaurantee well get someone to start, we have to get them in the draft. The only gauranteed rounds to get a starter for our team are RD1 or 2. Maybe 3 if were lucky, but regaurdless we have to take an OL early.

AlexDown
02-19-2007, 09:38 PM
I could be wrong but is this B.Edwards' last year on his contract?

Do you think the Brown's at the end of this year are going to shell out the money to keep him? If they end up drafting a QB, will this effect the decision at all?

mcdlaxbonz13
02-19-2007, 11:05 PM
i believe braylon still has 2 years he has only been in the league for 2 years and this upcoming season is his third and i think he signed a 5 year deal at minimum he signed a 4 year deal so we still have him one more year

Fresh
02-20-2007, 09:08 AM
Also, I think Orpheus Roye was our best player on the D-line last year and we won't have to replace him to have a great Dline in a few years.

in a few years. he will be retired.

Good point. :roll:

Fresh
02-20-2007, 12:09 PM
What would you guys say is the ideal size for a 3-4 NT? Maybe 6-4, 310??
Also, What happened to the NT we drafted from Stanford last year? Babatunde Oshinowo, I believe?

dlions20
02-20-2007, 01:01 PM
What would you guys say is the ideal size for a 3-4 NT? Maybe 6-4, 310??
Also, What happened to the NT we drafted from Stanford last year? Babatunde Oshinowo, I believe?

Ideal size is about 6'2 330

Oshinowu was more of a DE, and didnt get any playing time.

Iamcanadian
02-20-2007, 01:02 PM
What would you guys say is the ideal size for a 3-4 NT? Maybe 6-4, 310??
Also, What happened to the NT we drafted from Stanford last year? Babatunde Oshinowo, I believe?

Ideal size for a NT is around 6'1"-6'2", around 325-330lbs. It isn't impossible for a bigger guy to play NT but they want strong run defenders with a very low centre of gravity who is very tough to move. the taller the player, generally the easier to block him. Hampton of Pittsburgh is the prototype for the position 6'1", 325lbs.

Fresh
02-20-2007, 03:15 PM
The only person who really fits that prototypical size in the draft (according to Scott's stats) would be Doughty.

Branch is 6-6 and Tank Tyler barely weighs 300 but he could probably add on about 20.

jriles0522
02-20-2007, 03:36 PM
According to Cleveland.com, Bentley is out for 2007, will need another surgery on that knee for the same injury, and his career is in jeopardy. His agent guarantees he will play again at a pro bowl level, but what is he supposed to say?

I didnt expect him to play this year honestly, and our draft strategy must proceed such that he is not even on our team.

Freddy G
02-20-2007, 03:39 PM
Whashington is regarded as one of the best (if not the best) NT in NFL history and in his prime he was 6'5 345-55.

The best today is Jamal Williams and he is 6'3 345

Then you have Hampton at 6'1 320 and Wilfork at 6'2 325.


Ideal size is arbitruary, weight is probably most important when looking at size. Absolutely most important though is how well the player uses leverage, and whether or not he has a strong base.

As gaay as it may sound, rather than size, look for big butts, thick legs, and long arms. That's general, and of course not always accurate, but it is better than just looking purely at size.

Personally, i think i deal size would be 6'2-6'4 330+, but there are so many factors, that size really isn't as important as some make it to be.

stl9erfan
02-20-2007, 03:43 PM
IMO, tank tyler is the next teddy. he's big and he has the form to put on lots of weight. and he doenst have great stamina.

Oshinowa(i'm not even checking how you spell his name) has a good size. he also did very good inthe preseason this past year. i considered him our late rnd gem last year. watch for him if we dont address our NT spot this year. he may be in competition for the starting job for the 08 season. hopefully by then the talent gap on this team will be not so far in between and we can focus on 1 or 2 posistions instead of 5 or 6.

Fresh
02-20-2007, 04:06 PM
According to Cleveland.com, Bentley is out for 2007, will need another surgery on that knee for the same injury, and his career is in jeopardy. His agent guarantees he will play again at a pro bowl level, but what is he supposed to say?

I didnt expect him to play this year honestly, and our draft strategy must proceed such that he is not even on our team.

My friend's dad just died from a staph infection in his sleep. We probably can't even expect him back til '09, bbut it's very realistic that his career is over.

Fresh
02-20-2007, 04:09 PM
IMO, tank tyler is the next teddy. he's big and he has the form to put on lots of weight. and he doenst have great stamina.

Oshinowa(i'm not even checking how you spell his name) has a good size. he also did very good inthe preseason this past year. i considered him our late rnd gem last year. watch for him if we dont address our NT spot this year. he may be in competition for the starting job for the 08 season. hopefully by then the talent gap on this team will be not so far in between and we can focus on 1 or 2 posistions instead of 5 or 6.

Alright, this is going to sound ******** because I've seen it posted so much, but what does IMO stand for?

Yeah, It'll be nice when we don't need help everywhere but kick returner and tight end.

Freddy G
02-20-2007, 06:06 PM
IMO = in my opinion

dlions20
02-20-2007, 06:39 PM
The Staph infection definatly wont end his career. I have a buddy thats had 2 staff infections playing division 2 football within the last 3 years.

he also did very good inthe preseason this past year.

That was refering to Babatuno Oshinowu, if he was that good we wouldnt have released him, then later signed him to a practice squad after he cleared waivers. Hes not big enough to be a 3-4 NT, hes strong enough, but not massive enough. I think he weighted 310 out of college.

Oshinowu isnt near 325.

stl9erfan
02-20-2007, 09:22 PM
The Staph infection definatly wont end his career. I have a buddy thats had 2 staff infections playing division 2 football within the last 3 years.

he also did very good inthe preseason this past year.

That was refering to Babatuno Oshinowu, if he was that good we wouldnt have released him, then later signed him to a practice squad after he cleared waivers. Hes not big enough to be a 3-4 NT, hes strong enough, but not massive enough. I think he weighted 310 out of college.

Oshinowu isnt near 325.

i'm not saying that he WILL be a starter. and 310 isnt far from 325. he has the so called "perfect" size for a NT, plus a few lbs. and i'm sure they are working with him to gain some weight. plus, just b/c he was cut to the practice squad doesnt mean he wont be good.i also dont think he played every preseason game, or was limited in his game. and he wasnt on the practice squad very long, mabye 4 or 5 weeks i beleive. remember travis wilson didnt play almost the whole year, and while he was listed on the roster, he practiced most of the year with the practice squad. crennel doesnt like to start rookies.

i'm just pointing out that he MAY turn into starting caliber. he gives us good depth at the position. besides, Savage doesnt waste draft picks. :D

dlions20
02-20-2007, 10:58 PM
i'm not saying that he WILL be a starter. and 310 isnt far from 325. he has the so called "perfect" size for a NT, plus a few lbs.

310 is pretty far away from 325. And hes nowhere near perfect size for a NT. i remember Laroiy Glover played NT for the Cowboys and despite having everything it took to play the position he failed miserably.

Cwood8899
02-20-2007, 11:06 PM
Bentley won't be out for sure for the 2007 season. If he gets surgery then he'll be out for 2007. They said it was likely that he will get his third surgery. I say it's 75% chance he's out for 2007.

"Later this week, the team's headquarters will be vacated so a special antiseptic spray can be applied to help combat staph, a highly contagious virus."- Thank you!

dlions20
02-20-2007, 11:34 PM
I like Charlie Frye now guys! I played 6 seasons in madden 2007 and hes up to a 95 overall rating. His arm power is still at 88 though. i dont do training camp.

IMO best case scenario, Charlie Frye will be a Chad Pennington type.

stl9erfan
02-20-2007, 11:49 PM
since you insist on contridicting me on everything i say, let me prove my points

310 is pretty far away from 325. And hes nowhere near perfect size for a NT. i remember Laroiy Glover played NT for the Cowboys and despite having everything it took to play the position he failed miserably.

15lbs is not that much for someone that is 6'1'' or 6'2''. joe staley put on 85 POUNDS.i dont care if that was over a 3 year period. thats alot. i'm sure he will gain weight as he gets older, as that is almost a natural thing. i will agree with you that glover didnt do much as a NT, IMO he would have been a better DE for the 3-4. i'm also not saying that size is everything. you have one example of a disaster NT.(did you not see my post about starting DT's in the league?!?!)

view Freddy's post. i beleive that is the pin point. size means nothing if they can't use it. leverage, high motor, and initial burst are key.

the bottom line is, no team will even consider a NT that is under 300lbs. as far as height goes. it goes either way. 6'1'' ish for ppl that beleive in low center gravity kinda thing and can get good leverage. or ppl like teddy who are 6'5'' and just out powers ppl with his massive size. it goes either way. there is no perfect size. but he is close to IDEAL.


i think he could just fill the void for a year or 2(mabye more) when teddy retires. it is impossible for a team with as many needs that we have to fix them all in one season. or even 2. i'd like to see us address our DE spot first. it would further help the development of Wimbley. it would also force teams to run the ball up the middle more instead of left or right. making them more predictive and leaving us not having to guess which way they are running.

According to Cleveland.com, Bentley is out for 2007, will need another surgery on that knee for the same injury, and his career is in jeopardy. His agent guarantees he will play again at a pro bowl level, but what is he supposed to say?

I didnt expect him to play this year honestly, and our draft strategy must proceed such that he is not even on our team.

what is with all the staph infections? we've been having a lot of problems with this the past couple of years. K2 ended up having one. B easy had one. Russel and Bently had one this year. baxter might have had one last year, i dont remember. i've read that they've done tests at the cleveland clinic and have found nothing wrong. mabye the canadians(or those damn michigan fans) are throwing something in the lake and we're getting the result :!: :shock:

stl9erfan
02-20-2007, 11:52 PM
"Later this week, the team's headquarters will be vacated so a special antiseptic spray can be applied to help combat staph, a highly contagious virus."- Thank you!

FINALLY

i posted my last thought not knowing that. thank you for the info.

dlions20
02-21-2007, 12:07 AM
Oshinowu is listed at 6'1, 305 on the Browns page, what he weighed in at his pro day. So if you think thats perfect size for a NT, you go make your own team, because i would love to see it.

I only contradict you because your so off. You said 6'2, 315, hardly!

He doesnt have the burst needed for DE and doesnt have the bulk for NT, thats why he was released, then resigned for the practice squad.

dlions20
02-21-2007, 12:12 AM
Heres a pic of him....
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/multimedia/gallery_pop.php?gallery_id=0&type=player&player_id=551

looks slim for a NT. even for a DT in the 4-3.[/quote]

TRich28
02-21-2007, 01:08 AM
Browns | Team will be aggressive in free agency
Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:53:30 -0800

Mary Kay Cabot, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports the Cleveland Browns have $30 million in cap room and are planning to be aggressive in free agency.

Browns | Team might go after Clements in free agency
Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:13:10 -0800

Mary Kay Cabot, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports the Cleveland Browns might go after Buffalo Bills CB Nate Clements in free agency.

Browns | Team stepping up negotiations with Fraley
Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:56:14 -0800

Mary Kay Cabot, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports the Cleveland Browns have stepped up negotiations with C Hank Fraley.

stl9erfan
02-21-2007, 01:16 AM
Oshinowu is listed at 6'1, 305 on the Browns page, what he weighed in at his pro day. So if you think thats perfect size for a NT, you go make your own team, because i would love to see it.

I only contradict you because your so off. You said 6'2, 315, hardly!

He doesnt have the burst needed for DE and doesnt have the bulk for NT, thats why he was released, then resigned for the practice squad.

I think he weighted 310 out of college.

i based my 310 figure from what you said^^^. not one of my posts said he was 315. and ONE INCH is not "so far off".

i dont know why you think 5 or 10 lbs and one inch is so much. its really not.

i do agree that he wouldnt make a very good DE. i think Glover might have made a better DE. if there was confusion in my statment regarding that, my apologies. i dont think Oshionawu has that burst needed. but i think he's good enough to clog the running lanes if he needed to. and when i say this, i mean this only if we choose not to address this position this year or even next year. (tho i would be upset if we didnt at least attempt to address it next offseason)

he was released, signed to the practice squad, then signed to the active roster.

Westbourne
02-21-2007, 02:46 AM
I like Charlie Frye now guys! I played 6 seasons in madden 2007 and hes up to a 95 overall rating. His arm power is still at 88 though. i dont do training camp.

IMO best case scenario, Charlie Frye will be a Chad Pennington type.

HAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

Tell me, does Charlie make all the same mistakes in Madden that he does in real life.

Staring down receivers, throwing across his body, throwing across the field, tries to hard to make a play resulting in something bad...

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard...Ryan Leaf was good in Madden, lets resign him...

He'll be ungodly, he was a 99 overall as soon as I got his awareness up...

I only contradict you because your so off. You said 6'2, 315, hardly!
1" and 10lbs IS SO FAR OFF....Hardly!

Ryan "Don't Call it a Comeback" Leaf will lead the Cleveland Browns to the 2007 Super Bowl because he was good in Madden after I got his AWR upped.

Freddy G
02-21-2007, 09:34 AM
I need to inlist the help of my fellow Browns fans.

Please go to the fanasty section and vote for my "Hot women draft". I am up against sarf, and while i realize his team may have a slight edge, i am relatively close (as of now) and i think my team is better than everyone elses....i don't want to be booted out yet. :lol:


Browns fan UNITE!!

Fresh
02-21-2007, 12:54 PM
I like Charlie Frye now guys! I played 6 seasons in madden 2007 and hes up to a 95 overall rating. His arm power is still at 88 though. i dont do training camp.

IMO best case scenario, Charlie Frye will be a Chad Pennington type.

HAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

Tell me, does Charlie make all the same mistakes in Madden that he does in real life.

Staring down receivers, throwing across his body, throwing across the field, tries to hard to make a play resulting in something bad...

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard...Ryan Leaf was good in Madden, lets resign him...

He'll be ungodly, he was a 99 overall as soon as I got his awareness up...



Alright I think Joe Montainya was kidding although I did get Kamerion Wimbley up to a 98 in my Madden. :lol:

However, we can have a great team with Charlie Frye as our quarterback. IMO (thanks Freddy), all his major faults are easily fixable with a good coach, work, and some protection.

stl9erfan
02-21-2007, 02:27 PM
IMO best case scenario, Charlie Frye will be a Chad Pennington type.

there are scary similarities arnt there? i think that would be best case scenario.

Freddy G
02-21-2007, 02:49 PM
IMO best case scenario, Charlie Frye will be a Chad Pennington type.

there are scary similarities arnt there? i think that would be best case scenario.

Actually, think Frye has a better chance of being Jake Plummer (without mistakes 8) ) like.

I think you guys are a little over critical of his arm. It is definitely stronger (by quite a bit) than Pennington's, and while it isn't a cannon by any means, it is certainly adequate, imo. Throw in his mobility, very solid accuracy, natural playmaking ability (its there, just needs harnessed) and intangibles and he has potential.

I'm not saying he is going to be a pro bowler or HOFer or anything, but i certainly think he can be better than Pennington.

keylime_5
02-21-2007, 04:07 PM
For real, everyone is way underrating Frye's arm. His arm is not Brett Favre's but it is not as weka like Brees' or Penningtons' in a sense, though those two's games are all about making reads and using great accuracy on their throws. If we get 2 good guards and Adrian Peterson then Frye will actually get a chance to throw this year and we'll find out if he can win games with a running game and protection.

diabsoule
02-21-2007, 05:24 PM
Browns | McCutcheon not expected back
Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:54:49 -0800

Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns CB Daylon McCutcheon will likely not return to the team in 2007. McCutcheon missed the 2006 season after having knee surgery in training camp.

dlions20
02-21-2007, 06:17 PM
For real, everyone is way underrating Frye's arm. His arm is not Brett Favre's but it is not as weka like Brees' or Penningtons' in a sense, though those two's games are all about making reads and using great accuracy on their throws. If we get 2 good guards and Adrian Peterson then Frye will actually get a chance to throw this year and we'll find out if he can win games with a running game and protection.

Heres the difference, when Charlie throws harder, his accurancy dramatically decreases. I think this is due to him either rushing it (OL) or he just isnt very calm in the pocket. I liked it alot better when Anderson played and hes was supposed to be our 3rd string QB.

Freddy G
02-21-2007, 06:26 PM
Browns | McCutcheon not expected back
Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:54:49 -0800

Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns CB Daylon McCutcheon will likely not return to the team in 2007. McCutcheon missed the 2006 season after having knee surgery in training camp.

Expected.

stl9erfan
02-21-2007, 10:02 PM
For real, everyone is way underrating Frye's arm. His arm is not Brett Favre's but it is not as weka like Brees' or Penningtons' in a sense, though those two's games are all about making reads and using great accuracy on their throws. If we get 2 good guards and Adrian Peterson then Frye will actually get a chance to throw this year and we'll find out if he can win games with a running game and protection.

Heres the difference, when Charlie throws harder, his accurancy dramatically decreases. I think this is due to him either rushing it (OL) or he just isnt very calm in the pocket. I liked it alot better when Anderson played and hes was supposed to be our 3rd string QB.

i have to agree with you joe, 100%. i dont think charlie's arm is as weak as chad's. but its nothing special. and while his problems can be fixed. a few of my buddies have settled on anderson. he compares to tom brady of yesterday. a helacious arm. quick read's. not very mobile but great pocket presence. i do like charlie's mobility, thats def. a plus for him. but if anderson can improve his decision making and work on his accuracy, then its not a contest on who would start between the 2.

Cwood8899
02-21-2007, 10:44 PM
I think frye needs to mature. He needs to know that he doesn't have to make a play everytime and it's okay to throw the ball away.

Freddy G
02-22-2007, 08:46 AM
I think frye needs to mature. He needs to know that he doesn't have to make a play everytime and it's okay to throw the ball away.

= needing a running game to rely on.


A running game would do so much for this team, and it is so obvious. It would take pressure off Frye to make a play, slow down the pass rush, keep our defense off the field, and so on. While we have a lot of wholes, a running game would easily make the most impact, if filled. Even this last year, if we could have run the ball, i can confidently say we would have won 6-8 games.

For our team, it all starts with being able to run the ball.

Fresh
02-22-2007, 09:15 AM
I think frye needs to mature. He needs to know that he doesn't have to make a play everytime and it's okay to throw the ball away.

= needing a running game to rely on.


A running game would do so much for this team, and it is so obvious. It would take pressure off Frye to make a play, slow down the pass rush, keep our defense off the field, and so on. While we have a lot of wholes, a running game would easily make the most impact, if filled. Even this last year, if we could have run the ball, i can confidently say we would have won 6-8 games.

For our team, it all starts with being able to run the ball.

True, and running the ball starts with the o-line. Sure, it's nice to have a stud like AD in the backfield, but we don't need him. Look at Denver. They've consistently run the ball very well with decent RB's, then other teams overrate their RB's and pay way too much for them, IMO. But the key is the o-line. Mike Bell would've ran for 14 yards if he played for the Brown's this year.

Freddy G
02-22-2007, 12:21 PM
I think frye needs to mature. He needs to know that he doesn't have to make a play everytime and it's okay to throw the ball away.

= needing a running game to rely on.


A running game would do so much for this team, and it is so obvious. It would take pressure off Frye to make a play, slow down the pass rush, keep our defense off the field, and so on. While we have a lot of wholes, a running game would easily make the most impact, if filled. Even this last year, if we could have run the ball, i can confidently say we would have won 6-8 games.

For our team, it all starts with being able to run the ball.

True, and running the ball starts with the o-line. Sure, it's nice to have a stud like AD in the backfield, but we don't need him. Look at Denver. They've consistently run the ball very well with decent RB's, then other teams overrate their RB's and pay way too much for them, IMO. But the key is the o-line. Mike Bell would've ran for 14 yards if he played for the Brown's this year.


Obviously it starts with the OL, but by no means does that mean you need a great OL. The RB must still be able to take advantage of the opportunities presented...something Drounghns just didn't do last year. Of course i think the line was/is bad, but IMO, it can be relatively easily fixed.

I think it safe to assume we will get at least one solid OL in FA, most likely a starter. It may not be a super star, but he has to be better than what we have. Combine that with the fact that our C and OTs are all good run blockers, we would really only have the one whole left to fill at OG. Hopefully it will be Smith or Sowells, or maybe a draft pick. All i am saying is we really aren't that far off.

Just look at backs like LJ, Tiki, Stephen Jackson, and Maroney/Dillen. While their lines are solid, and maybe even underrated slightly, fact remains is that the concensous regards them as merely average/solid. Yet a great makes them look pretty good. So, right now we are in a position to get a great (potenial) back, and some solid OL in FA and draft....works for me. :)

jriles0522
02-22-2007, 12:31 PM
I think frye needs to mature. He needs to know that he doesn't have to make a play everytime and it's okay to throw the ball away.

= needing a running game to rely on.


A running game would do so much for this team, and it is so obvious. It would take pressure off Frye to make a play, slow down the pass rush, keep our defense off the field, and so on. While we have a lot of wholes, a running game would easily make the most impact, if filled. Even this last year, if we could have run the ball, i can confidently say we would have won 6-8 games.

For our team, it all starts with being able to run the ball.

True, and running the ball starts with the o-line. Sure, it's nice to have a stud like AD in the backfield, but we don't need him. Look at Denver. They've consistently run the ball very well with decent RB's, then other teams overrate their RB's and pay way too much for them, IMO. But the key is the o-line. Mike Bell would've ran for 14 yards if he played for the Brown's this year.

It works both ways though. I don't think LT played with any pro bowl lineman until they picked up mcneill.
the rest of the line was just goff (3rd round by the bengals) Hardwick (3rd round) Deilman (was he even drafted?) and olivea (7th round).

Great RB can make an average line look good and visa versa. I think Thomas warrants a long look but there is some decent depth at the top of the second and third rounds on the oline that we can get (staley, grubbs, sears, ugoh, beekman, kalil, etc.) If we could somehow get 2 OL, a guy like mcbean or that hawaiian guy and peterson i'd prolly die.

Hail Browns
02-22-2007, 05:38 PM
I'll agree with Freddy that a great RB can make an average OL look good. With that being the case, I'd like the draft to look like this, after we sign Dielman of course. :D
1st-AD
2nd-Staley/Grubbs/Sears(and I already know about Phil not taking interior OL early, please don't tell me)
3rd-Mcbean, Alama-Francis, Best DL
4rd-Doug Datish, he's the the swing C/OG Phil wants


I'm not doing the rest right now, I'm coming off the flu so I'm tired. How's that draft look though?

jriles0522
02-22-2007, 05:42 PM
First, I'm real pissed off the cavs didn't get mike bibby.

Anyway, Adalius Thomas wasn't franchised so the door is open for us to make a positive move in FA with him and ideally steinbach or deilman.

That would push CB up on our need list IMO, especially if Ross, Hughes, or someone like Houston is there at the top of the 2nd.

Finally, I read that K2s rehab from microfracture surgery will take about 3-4 months and is more involved than it was initially led on to be. I really think he could be out of the league in 3-4 years, the list of successful comebacks from that kind of surgery in the nfl is not glamorous and considering the browns luck i wouldn't be shocked if that was the case.

Fresh
02-22-2007, 05:44 PM
I think frye needs to mature. He needs to know that he doesn't have to make a play everytime and it's okay to throw the ball away.

= needing a running game to rely on.


A running game would do so much for this team, and it is so obvious. It would take pressure off Frye to make a play, slow down the pass rush, keep our defense off the field, and so on. While we have a lot of wholes, a running game would easily make the most impact, if filled. Even this last year, if we could have run the ball, i can confidently say we would have won 6-8 games.

For our team, it all starts with being able to run the ball.

True, and running the ball starts with the o-line. Sure, it's nice to have a stud like AD in the backfield, but we don't need him. Look at Denver. They've consistently run the ball very well with decent RB's, then other teams overrate their RB's and pay way too much for them, IMO. But the key is the o-line. Mike Bell would've ran for 14 yards if he played for the Brown's this year.

It works both ways though. I don't think LT played with any pro bowl lineman until they picked up mcneill.
the rest of the line was just goff (3rd round by the bengals) Hardwick (3rd round) Deilman (was he even drafted?) and olivea (7th round).

Great RB can make an average line look good and visa versa. I think Thomas warrants a long look but there is some decent depth at the top of the second and third rounds on the oline that we can get (staley, grubbs, sears, ugoh, beekman, kalil, etc.) If we could somehow get 2 OL, a guy like mcbean or that hawaiian guy and peterson i'd prolly die.

Yes, it works both ways, but I think it works better with a great Oline than a great RB. Also, the Browns do not have an "average" line right now but if we do get a solid starter in free agency and draft 2 olinemen in the draft, one of them being in round 2 (maybe 3, if abiamari is there in rd 2)(or Carriker :lol:) we could have an average line next year.

However, Peterson will only be a rookie and won't be great yet, so it's unrealistic to expect much from our running game next year, but the future is bright. (Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, with every Cleveland team I've ever watched that's never lived up to their "potential." I hate that word. :evil:)

jriles0522
02-22-2007, 05:45 PM
I'll agree with Freddy that a great RB can make an average OL look good. With that being the case, I'd like the draft to look like this, after we sign Dielman of course. :D
1st-AD
2nd-Staley/Grubbs/Sears(and I already know about Phil not taking interior OL early, please don't tell me)
3rd-Mcbean, Alama-Francis, Best DL
4rd-Doug Datish, he's the the swing C/OG Phil wants


I'm not doing the rest right now, I'm coming off the flu so I'm tired. How's that draft look though?

thats exactly what i said in my post a few up from here.

Fresh
02-22-2007, 05:58 PM
First, I'm real pissed off the cavs didn't get mike bibby.

Anyway, Adalius Thomas wasn't franchised so the door is open for us to make a positive move in FA with him and ideally steinbach or deilman.

That would push CB up on our need list IMO, especially if Ross, Hughes, or someone like Houston is there at the top of the 2nd.

Finally, I read that K2s rehab from microfracture surgery will take about 3-4 months and is more involved than it was initially led on to be. I really think he could be out of the league in 3-4 years, the list of successful comebacks from that kind of surgery in the nfl is not glamorous and considering the browns luck i wouldn't be shocked if that was the case.

I second that on Bibby, did you read that article today? It got my hopes up. That ends the Cav's chances of a title this year. Maybe next year...(I have heard that way too much.)
Good news on Thomas although I would much rather have Clements and I do not want to use a 2nd rd pick on a CB although it would definitely be a need if we let it go in Free agency.

I read that about K2 as well. He is TOUGH. Looks like he wasn't lying about playing on 1 knee (and playing darn good at that).

Sveen
02-23-2007, 07:59 AM
INDIANAPOLIS -- There was good news for the Browns Friday morning as they won the coin toss with Tampa Bay and will pick third overallin April's NFL Draft.

The teams gathered at 7:45 a.m. to toss the coin. Tampa Bay's representative called heads, and the coin came up tails.

Source: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=6480

Freddy G
02-23-2007, 08:41 AM
INDIANAPOLIS -- There was good news for the Browns Friday morning as they won the coin toss with Tampa Bay and will pick third overallin April's NFL Draft.

The teams gathered at 7:45 a.m. to toss the coin. Tampa Bay's representative called heads, and the coin came up tails.

Source: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=6480

You beat Scott :D

Fresh
02-23-2007, 08:49 AM
I checked the trade value chart and I like what I see :D

If the Vikings trade with us, AD will more than likely be there at 7, and we would get the Vikings 2nd and 4th rnd picks for sure, maybe their 2nd and 3rd. 5 picks on Day 1 sounds good to me.

Fresh
02-23-2007, 08:51 AM
Also, If AD isnt there then Alan Branch will be! This trade is making more and more sense and I will be upset if we do not make it. The only downside is well have no chance at Thomas, but I can live with that.

JayP
02-23-2007, 09:10 AM
i think a trade with the vikes would be possible, but 2008 picks might be involved...maybe 2008 2nd round

but the chart also shows that potential that 3 3rd round picks could get us to move up with you guys

i personally like the idea of

vikes give 1st, 3rd, 6th, 2008 3rd, Kinechi Udeze (hoping the vikes pick up Kerney)
clevelan gives 1st

that value should be pretty equal because Udeze is at LEAST worth a 3rd round pick

jriles0522
02-23-2007, 09:27 AM
i think a trade with the vikes would be possible, but 2008 picks might be involved...maybe 2008 2nd round

but the chart also shows that potential that 3 3rd round picks could get us to move up with you guys

i personally like the idea of

vikes give 1st, 3rd, 6th, 2008 3rd, Kinechi Udeze (hoping the vikes pick up Kerney)
clevelan gives 1st

that value should be pretty equal because Udeze is at LEAST worth a 3rd round pick

I don't think Udeze fits into a 3-4 defense. He's more of a 4-3 edge guy. He'd be of no value/interest to us. Give us a draft pick.

jriles0522
02-23-2007, 09:33 AM
Also, If AD isnt there then Alan Branch will be! This trade is making more and more sense and I will be upset if we do not make it. The only downside is well have no chance at Thomas, but I can live with that.

Its not just us who needs to want to make the trade for it to happen. Personally, I don't see how the vikings can afford to. They have too many needs to address to be forfeiting the rest of their day 1 to get johnson, ESPECIALLY if one of the qbs appears to fall.

However if it does, and we are lucky enough to get their 2 and 3 rounders i'd be doing cartwheels in the street and i don't even know how. It's too hard to project what we'd do with all those picks although i think it makes Troy Smith a virtual lock to go to us.


We could also trade back up into the first round. Hell, we'd be in position to have one of the most epic drafts of all time. If you can't tell im officially so pumped if that would actually happen im saying prayers from now ill april 28th.

Also, if we get those extra picks, we could trade the top 2 and 3 rounders and the value works to get us to about the 20th pick. Just another idea to, if we take Quinn at 7, and lynch falls to 15-20. We'd have the ammo to go up and get him. Which would be hugeee. I don't think we could go wrong with this though assuming carriker falls to 20, which he prolly wont but hey we can dream.

How about this:
1. Peterson
1b. Carriker
2. Grubbs/Sears/Staley/Tyler/Abiamiri
3. McBean/Hawaii 5-0, etc/Beekman/T. Smith/a CB
:twisted:

mcdlaxbonz13
02-23-2007, 10:50 AM
wouldn't it be great if the fate of the browns was changed by one coin flip. :D

Fresh
02-23-2007, 11:46 AM
Also, If AD isnt there then Alan Branch will be! This trade is making more and more sense and I will be upset if we do not make it. The only downside is well have no chance at Thomas, but I can live with that.

Its not just us who needs to want to make the trade for it to happen. Personally, I don't see how the vikings can afford to. They have too many needs to address to be forfeiting the rest of their day 1 to get johnson, ESPECIALLY if one of the qbs appears to fall.

However if it does, and we are lucky enough to get their 2 and 3 rounders i'd be doing cartwheels in the street and i don't even know how. It's too hard to project what we'd do with all those picks although i think it makes Troy Smith a virtual lock to go to us.


We could also trade back up into the first round. Hell, we'd be in position to have one of the most epic drafts of all time. If you can't tell im officially so pumped if that would actually happen im saying prayers from now ill april 28th.

Also, if we get those extra picks, we could trade the top 2 and 3 rounders and the value works to get us to about the 20th pick. Just another idea to, if we take Quinn at 7, and lynch falls to 15-20. We'd have the ammo to go up and get him. Which would be hugeee. I don't think we could go wrong with this though assuming carriker falls to 20, which he prolly wont but hey we can dream.

How about this:
1. Peterson
1b. Carriker
2. Grubbs/Sears/Staley/Tyler/Abiamiri
3. McBean/Hawaii 5-0, etc/Beekman/T. Smith/a CB
:twisted:

I love it when you talk like that. :twisted:
We'd still have another pick on Day 1 that you didn't say if we trade up to get Carriker ( as long as we don't trade too far up).
And, personally I wouldn't be a fan of this, but we could trade our 1st round pick to the middle of the first round for Carriker and have about 5 more picks, at least 2 of them on day 1. :D

But I like your draft better with Peterson as our pick. I would be neutral about trading down for Carriker after that but as for right now I am against it.

jriles0522
02-23-2007, 01:23 PM
I just had a revelation.

The Browns players who get hurt always have a clean bill of health in college (Winslow, Edwards, Jones, Brown, etc)

2 of our top targets in this year's draft have been injured in college, Thomas with a torn ACL and Peterson with the ankle and collar bone.

WHAT IF, we draft injured guys, so they already have their injuries OUT OF THE WAY, before they get to us and stay healthy forever.

Freddy G
02-23-2007, 02:05 PM
I just had a revelation.

The Browns players who get hurt always have a clean bill of health in college (Winslow, Edwards, Jones, Brown, etc)

2 of our top targets in this year's draft have been injured in college, Thomas with a torn ACL and Peterson with the ankle and collar bone.

WHAT IF, we draft injured guys, so they already have their injuries OUT OF THE WAY, before they get to us and stay healthy forever.

Sounds good :D ....but this ******* CLEVELAND!......They would die in a plane crash on the way here.

mcdlaxbonz13
02-23-2007, 02:15 PM
guys you are forgetting something though kamerion wimbley broke the curse of our first round draft picks being injured.

Fresh
02-23-2007, 02:43 PM
I just had a revelation.

The Browns players who get hurt always have a clean bill of health in college (Winslow, Edwards, Jones, Brown, etc)

2 of our top targets in this year's draft have been injured in college, Thomas with a torn ACL and Peterson with the ankle and collar bone.

WHAT IF, we draft injured guys, so they already have their injuries OUT OF THE WAY, before they get to us and stay healthy forever.

Sounds good :D ....but this *********** CLEVELAND!......They would die in a plane crash on the way here.

Yeah, it might be worse if they've already had problems. Like they'd drown in all the snow we have in ohio, but I like the thinking jriles. :D

stl9erfan
02-23-2007, 03:15 PM
im saying prayers from now ill april 28th.

i'll say them with you.


i'd love to see a trade with the viks. it does work out and is entirely possible. and rumors are there set on that young QB they have. so they REALLY need a wide out.

i woulnt mind if we traded back up into the first rnd for carriker. or possibly even levi brown if he slipped. troy smith could be a lock, or micheal bush. and with the 3rd rnd pick we could take that DE from Hawaii.

dlions20
02-23-2007, 06:57 PM
Thomas Jones wants out of Chicago. It will most likely cost a team not higher than a 4rth rounder to get him. What do you guys think about trading a pick for him? Im not convinced with Petersons running style/size.

We could then concentrate on our OL/DL or maybe even a QB of the future.

Link: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-070222bears,1,6045629.story?coll=cs-bears-headlines

Freddy G
02-23-2007, 07:07 PM
Thomas Jones wants out of Chicago. It will most likely cost a team not higher than a 4rth rounder to get him. What do you guys think about trading a pick for him? Im not convinced with Petersons running style/size.

We could then concentrate on our OL/DL or maybe even a QB of the future.

Link: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-070222bears,1,6045629.story?coll=cs-bears-headlines

I don't want a stop gap...again.

jriles0522
02-23-2007, 08:02 PM
Thomas Jones wants out of Chicago. It will most likely cost a team not higher than a 4rth rounder to get him. What do you guys think about trading a pick for him? Im not convinced with Petersons running style/size.

We could then concentrate on our OL/DL or maybe even a QB of the future.

Link: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-070222bears,1,6045629.story?coll=cs-bears-headlines

I don't want a stop gap...again.

Not a fan. Plus if we do this before draft day we'd really be tipping our hand at who we'd want to draft and we'd lose a lot of leverage in trading our pick, IMO.

dlions20
02-23-2007, 08:50 PM
Not a fan. Plus if we do this before draft day we'd really be tipping our hand at who we'd want to draft and we'd lose a lot of leverage in trading our pick, IMO.

We wouldnt make the trade until the 4rth round, we wouldnt be tipping anything.

Im just saying If we dont draft Peterson, I personally would like to have some proven depth at the RB position other than a 3rd down back.

Droughns and Jones/Harrison are better than Droughns and Harrison. Especially for a team thats use to having a RB injured at one point or another.

Iamcanadian
02-24-2007, 09:25 AM
For real, everyone is way underrating Frye's arm. His arm is not Brett Favre's but it is not as weka like Brees' or Penningtons' in a sense, though those two's games are all about making reads and using great accuracy on their throws. If we get 2 good guards and Adrian Peterson then Frye will actually get a chance to throw this year and we'll find out if he can win games with a running game and protection.

Heres the difference, when Charlie throws harder, his accurancy dramatically decreases. I think this is due to him either rushing it (OL) or he just isnt very calm in the pocket. I liked it alot better when Anderson played and hes was supposed to be our 3rd string QB.

i have to agree with you joe, 100%. i dont think charlie's arm is as weak as chad's. but its nothing special. and while his problems can be fixed. a few of my buddies have settled on anderson. he compares to tom brady of yesterday. a helacious arm. quick read's. not very mobile but great pocket presence. i do like charlie's mobility, thats def. a plus for him. but if anderson can improve his decision making and work on his accuracy, then its not a contest on who would start between the 2.

Anderson isn't a quality type who can ever start in this league. All through his college career, he barely completed 50% of his passes and more importantly threw a lot of interceptions. With him, what you see now is what you get. A QB with accuracy problems who has a real tendacy to throw interceptions. He will always be a backup. It appears that we are going with Frye unless all the talk is a smokescreen so nobody trades with Detroit to secure Quinn ahead of us. Only draft day will tell!

Fresh
02-24-2007, 10:02 AM
Thomas Jones wants out of Chicago. It will most likely cost a team not higher than a 4rth rounder to get him. What do you guys think about trading a pick for him? Im not convinced with Petersons running style/size.

We could then concentrate on our OL/DL or maybe even a QB of the future.

Link: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-070222bears,1,6045629.story?coll=cs-bears-headlines

I'm all for it for a 4th round pick. I think Jones is better than Droughns. This would work out great if Thomas fell to us, but I really don't want to take anyone besides Joe or AD unless we trade down. Maybe throw Droughns in the trade, as well? I don't know.

keylime_5
02-24-2007, 11:56 AM
Screw Thomas, Droughns isn't that much worse and I'd much rather have Peterson. AD will be a 9 time pro bowler after we draft him and lead us to the playoffs at least 6 times. Yeah, optimism!

dlions20
02-24-2007, 12:51 PM
My favorite RB in the draft in Marshawn Lynch. He can run the ball, catch it and throw it because he was a good QB in high school. If this article is correct on his 4.3 speed, he has to be our guy. Lynch is also only 20 years old so hes almost 2 years younger than Peterson with no injury history. Has a better pro body and more versitle. Also possibly a better pass blocker.

Lynch has NFL speed and size
Jeff Walcoff, Staff Writer
02.24.2007
California running back Marshawn Lynch owes a lot to his mother.

Back in Oakland, Calif. where the family resides, Delisa Lynch worked three jobs to support Lynch and his siblings and still managed to attend every one of the children's athletic events, sometimes going to several in a day.

And now, just weeks from being drafted into the NFL, Lynch is ready to thank his mother for everything she has done.

Lynch, who has a tattoo reading "Mama's Boy" from shoulder blade to shoulder blade across his back, said the first thing he'll do when he receives his signing bonus later this summer is buy a house for his mother in the city in which he'll play.

But honoring one of the Ten Commandments isn't enough to get you selected within the first two rounds of the NFL Draft, as Lynch is projected to be.

Lynch is a football player -- and a good one.

In fact, at 5-feet-11 and 215 pounds and with 4.3 speed, he might have the best combination of size and speed of any running back in the 2007 draft.
He calls that combination his greatest strength.

Lynch originally was a quarterback at Oakland Technical High School (he said to this day he can throw the ball about 70 yards) until his cousin, Joshua Johnson, beat him out for the job.

The move worked out for the best. Lynch turned out to be a better running back, rushing for 4,722 yards and 23 touchdowns in just eight regular season games as a senior. Johnson was successful too and now is the starting quarterback at the University of San Diego. He earned All-America honors this past season.

The start of Lynch's college career was quiet but relatively notable. He played behind J.J. Arrington as a true freshman in 2004 but still managed 71 carries for 628 yards for an 8.8 yards-per-carry average, and eight touchdowns.

He took over the team's starting role in 2005 and rushed for 1,246 yards on 196 carries with 10 touchdowns in just 10 games. While not as good as his freshman average, his 6.4 yards-per-carry average as a sophomore continued to raise eyebrows.

In 2006, he was the Pac 10 offensive player of the year (yes, ahead of star USC Trojans like John David Booty, Dwayne Jarrett and Steve Smith). Lynch rushed for 1,421 yards and 11 scores.

The pass-catching threat also posted 600 receiving yards on 68 catches during his three seasons as a Bear.

After putting up those sorts of numbers, Lynch decided to forgo his senior year and make sure his motherno longer hadto spend all her time working just to make ends meet.

"I feel I accomplished a lot on the college level and I'm ready to test what I have on the next level," he said.

The athletic running back has his share of adversity to battle before making it in the NFL, however. Two incidents have raised questions about his character and have threatened to lower his draft stock.

In June 2006, he was riding in a car near his former high school when assailants opened fire on the vehicle. It turned out Lynch and the other passengers in the car were not the intended target of the shooting.

"It was tough but that problem was resolved," Lynch said. "It was a miscommunication. The guy thought I was somebody that I wasn't.

Remarkably, within 20 minutes the shooter phoned Lynch's mother to apologize.

"I guess I mean that much to Oakland," he said.

On January 25, Lynch was accused of sexual assault by his former girlfriend. Two days later a deputy district attorney declined to press charges citing inconsistencies in the accuser's story.

While Lynch was never arrested or charged in the crime, it's negative press at an inopportune time.

He said when teams ask him about the issue he'll simply be honest.

"I'm just going to tell them thre truth," he said. "It's something they want to know and I have nothing to hide. I'll tell them straight how it was."

Lynch confirmed Friday that he has met with the Browns, among several other teams, but said his dream would be to continue to build a legacy in the town in which he was raised. He'd love to be a Raider.

Good to see the Browns are keeping there options open.

dlions20
02-24-2007, 01:08 PM
Did anyone else notice that 3 of our losses last year were within 1 TD to playoff teams? (saints, ravens, chargers), we also beat 2 playoff teams (jets and chiefs). Then there were 2 very close losses to almost playoff teams (pittsburg, carolina)

We had a total of 8 losses that were within 10 pts also.

Injuries also very much effected some of these losses.

Im excited to see our team next year with some new players and better health/luck.

jriles0522
02-24-2007, 01:32 PM
Not to take anything away from lynch, and i've already said i'd be all for taking him if we trade down in the first round, but there's just something about peterson that i think makes him a special player.

Also, if their 40 times match up (within about .05), which i expect to happen and for both to be under 4.4, the speed factor is really a wash. So yea lynch may be more versatile but something tells me peterson can catch a screen pass and go upfield just fine and if he has any kind of coach, he's plenty athletic/strong/smart to be a great pass blocker.

I know i'm probably in the minority here and maybe rightfully so, but I think the injuries have really overshadowed what a freak athlete and rb this guy was/is.

Ill take peterson over lynch in the 3rd spot anyyyyy day.

dlions20
02-24-2007, 01:38 PM
I dont think taking Lynch 3rd was really an option, its more of a trade down scenario.

I know i'm probably in the minority here and maybe rightfully so, but I think the injuries have really overshadowed what a freak athlete and rb this guy was/is.

Um, that screams Courtney Brown all over again.

Think if we traded down with Minnesota for the 8th pick.

RD1 - Marshawn Lynch
RD2 - Victor Abiamiri
RD2 - Robert Meachum

that would be rediculous for our offense.

Sign Kris Dielman and Fraley in FA. Then push for Nate Clements.

Next year is the year we need to worry about getting DL, because that class for next years draft is stocked with 3-4 potential.

BJ Raji is 6'1 340 DT from Boston College, rated in the top 6 DT's in 2008.

Red Bryant is 6'5 335 from Texas A&M and is also rated in the top of the DT's.

jriles0522
02-24-2007, 01:44 PM
I dont think taking Lynch 3rd was really an option, its more of a trade down scenario.

I know i'm probably in the minority here and maybe rightfully so, but I think the injuries have really overshadowed what a freak athlete and rb this guy was/is.

Um, that screams Courtney Brown all over again.

Think if we traded down with Minnesota for the 8th pick.

RD1 - Marshawn Lynch
RD2 - Victor Abiamiri
RD2 - Robert Meachum

that would be rediculous for our offense.

Sign Kris Dielman and Fraley in FA. Then push for Nate Clements.

Next year is the year we need to worry about getting DL, because that class for next years draft is stocked with 3-4 potential.

First, off Minnesota has the 7th pick, 1 spot before the Texans, who would be the next team to take Peterson barring a trade to get him. Would you take lynch over peterson at 7 or at any spot if they were both available?

dlions20
02-24-2007, 01:52 PM
Would you take lynch over peterson at 7 or at any spot if they were both available?


When Peterson rushed for almost 2,000 yards he was great, and also had a top 3 OL in the country.

Since then his numbers have dropped, injuries have risen, and there are many more quetions about him, including running style, size, injury concerns etc....

Lynch doesnt have any of those concerns, is almost 2 years younger, and equally produced at a high level, and arguably is more versitile.


Everyone knows the Browns injury history, so why draft someone in that mold?

jriles0522
02-24-2007, 02:18 PM
Would you take lynch over peterson at 7 or at any spot if they were both available?


When Peterson rushed for almost 2,000 yards he was great, and also had a top 3 OL in the country.

Since then his numbers have dropped, injuries have risen, and there are many more quetions about him, including running style, size, injury concerns etc....

Lynch doesnt have any of those concerns, is almost 2 years younger, and equally produced at a high level, and arguably is more versitile.


Everyone knows the Browns injury history, so why draft someone in that mold?

It was just a yes or no question, and i respect those reasons, but I'll take that response as a yes that you would draft him over peterson if they were both available at 7?

Also, of all of those reasons "almost 2 years younger" is probably the one that i'd factor LEAST into the decision. I mean seriously, almost 2 years younger? Your thinking must be that lynch will stay in his prime for ALMOST 2 more years, which is basically about ONE more football season, that doesn't really matter to me personally.

If they both turn out to be great, would it really matter to a team drafting, to say well we like peterson more but he might only have 8 great years and lynch, well he's a half notch below but could have 9 great years?

And i know this isn't a clear indicator by any stretch of the imagination, but when i watch a highlight video of peterson...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AP5RgOy5fjA


and then one of lynch...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WxwFmss2EwA&mode=related&search=

peterson just looks much more explosive, and impressive to me and i see nothing but superstar.

in the end don't get me wrong i'm not saying lynch isnt good or wont be good, but if it were my choice im taking peterson anytime, any place.

dsnyder038
02-24-2007, 03:31 PM
I think its plain as day that we're picking up our franchise back: either Turner in FA or on rd1 of the draft. If we fail to pick up Turner in FA -who we've already expressed interest in, and from what rumors are now coming out, won't be a Charger next season - then we'll either go Peterson at #3, or trade down with the Texans (for which Savage has already spoken to about a trade down) and pick up our franchise back in Lynch.

keylime_5
02-24-2007, 05:45 PM
There is no argument that Peterson is a better pro prospect than Lynch. No need to show videos when you can get expert testimony from basically any scout you can find that Peterson is more than twice the prospect than Lynch. Also look at how former 2000+ yard rusher and 4.3 RB JJ Arrington from Cal did in the pros. Every back who has played for Tedford pretty much puts up freaky #s especially in the Pac 10. I'd rather have Peterson than Lynch and another 2nd round pick.

stl9erfan
02-24-2007, 06:40 PM
Would you take lynch over peterson at 7 or at any spot if they were both available?


When Peterson rushed for almost 2,000 yards he was great, and also had a top 3 OL in the country.

Since then his numbers have dropped, injuries have risen, and there are many more quetions about him, including running style, size, injury concerns etc....

Lynch doesnt have any of those concerns, is almost 2 years younger, and equally produced at a high level, and arguably is more versitile.


Everyone knows the Browns injury history, so why draft someone in that mold?

if you watch those video's. there's only a few difference's that seperate those 2 runners.

Lynch is defiantly the more shifty of the 2. i'll give that to him, and can stop and change direction before anyone else blinks.

Peterson is more physical. his qoal seems more to be, "shoot up the middle, get the promising yards, then go from there."

b/c of lynch's awesome elusiveness, i think he dances around inthe backfield to much. sure, that worked great in college, but young players fall more for fakes and jukes and whatnot. that wont happen nearly as much inthe NFL. i forsee a lot of TFL by opposing NFL defenses against lynch.

Since then his numbers have dropped, injuries have risen, and there are many more quetions about him, including running style, size, injury concerns etc....

his numbers' dropped b/c he was hurt. NOT the other way around. his injuries were eitehr freak or common.high ankle sprain? happens all the time.shouldnt even be considered a problem. a broken collor bone? not a severe injury. not career ending. a broken collerbone is one of the longest healing process's for the body to repsond too. that's proven science. it may also get stronger, but thats from personal memory and i may be wrong so PLEASE dont rape me about that.

as far as questions about his running style. he runs' upright, very hard and very fast. very physical. ppl are concerned about it upright running style. but its worked before (eddie george)

there are no questions on his size. you make height a weight a much bigger factor for every position that it really needs to be. age is of not concern for a rookie. tye hill was a 24 YOR. didnt stop him from going in the first rnd. teddy will be 39 this season. altho is best years are long gone. Tiki could still have his best year(s) in front of him, but yet he elected to retire as a fairly young age for a RB.

JRiles, i'll join you on the Peterson bandwagon.

Fresh
02-24-2007, 07:10 PM
If the Brown's don't trade down, I will be very upset. Trading to 7 will still allow us to get AD probably, and if not, we can trade down again and get Lynch, along with a ton of picks. I also pretty much agree with JSimmsy on everything he's said regarding this.

Also, Kalil and Thomas had great combines today. Justin Blalock also had a great day, especially in the weight room (40 reps).

GoldenBoy
02-24-2007, 08:12 PM
At the scouting combine today (I was there with the media) I was absolutely blown away with Calvin Johnson. I was there with a lot of other receivers who said their strength is their size, and Calvin makes them look tiny. If he does have the agility he says he has and can leap like he can in game situations... oh my! He's billing himself as a Randy Moss type player with a Marvin Harrison attitude. We could be looking at the "Michael Jordan of Football" If I were Phil Savage I would seriously consider drafting Calvin with the #3 pick, even if the team need is elsewhere. The upside with Calvin is just HUGE!

jriles0522
02-24-2007, 08:39 PM
At the scouting combine today (I was there with the media) I was absolutely blown away with Calvin Johnson. I was there with a lot of other receivers who said their strength is their size, and Calvin makes them look tiny. If he does have the agility he says he has and can leap like he can in game situations... oh my! He's billing himself as a Randy Moss type player with a Marvin Harrison attitude. We could be looking at the "Michael Jordan of Football" If I were Phil Savage I would seriously consider drafting Calvin with the #3 pick, even if the team need is elsewhere. The upside with Calvin is just HUGE!

Don't say thattttttt it just complicates everything even more. Potential franchise QBs, RBs, LT, or a WR. I like Peterson but i really wouldn't blink if we picked johnson. How could you be upset with that pick? It would give Edwards a kick in the nuts if nothing else and let him see hes not hot s h it anymore and he better step up his game. Winslow could roam everywhere in the middle too if he ever gets healthy.

Freddy G
02-24-2007, 09:25 PM
At the scouting combine today (I was there with the media) I was absolutely blown away with Calvin Johnson. I was there with a lot of other receivers who said their strength is their size, and Calvin makes them look tiny. If he does have the agility he says he has and can leap like he can in game situations... oh my! He's billing himself as a Randy Moss type player with a Marvin Harrison attitude. We could be looking at the "Michael Jordan of Football" If I were Phil Savage I would seriously consider drafting Calvin with the #3 pick, even if the team need is elsewhere. The upside with Calvin is just HUGE!

Don't say thattttttt it just complicates everything even more. Potential franchise QBs, RBs, LT, or a WR. I like Peterson but i really wouldn't blink if we picked johnson. How could you be upset with that pick? It would give Edwards a kick in the nuts if nothing else and let him see hes not hot s h it anymore and he better step up his game. Winslow could roam everywhere in the middle too if he ever gets healthy.

Yeah, maybe not the first choice, but definitely couldn't be mad if we got him. I would be excited.

bergo23
02-25-2007, 06:05 AM
Crennel says you have a starting guard that is an UFA, is he any good? We may lose Dielman (maybe to you guys!!!), you guys got burned with the Bentley injury, this franchise is cursed like the Cubbies in baseball.

jriles0522
02-25-2007, 10:00 AM
Crennel says you have a starting guard that is an UFA, is he any good? We may lose Dielman (maybe to you guys!!!), you guys got burned with the Bentley injury, this franchise is cursed like the Cubbies in baseball.

I'm not positive but i think hes talking about our RG Cosey Coleman. First, if the Browns are letting him walk, he can't be that good, and frankly hes not. He's a veteran guy who could spot start and be a valuable back up for a few years. If you're looking for more, look elsewhere.

jriles0522
02-25-2007, 10:26 AM
In case you haven't heard, Calvin Johnson ran a 4.35 at the combine today. This has many impacts on the Browns.

1) If Johnson keeps blowing people away the Raiders will probably take him #1, meaning Jamarcus Russell will be there at 3 for the Browns. Interestingly enough i just read an article (I'll try to find the link) that said if Jamarcus would fall to 3, savage would take him "in a heartbeat" and make him his "signature draft pick".

2) If Johnson is still availabe at 3, then I say we flip a coin on him or Peterson and frankly, it might just be safer to take CJ, even though as everyone knows i love Peterson.

CherryGarcia510
02-25-2007, 10:37 AM
yea after this run if johnson is there i jsut don't think we can pass him up. I know we have other needs but this seems to be a once in a decade player and you don't want to be the team that passed him up. Plus having another good WR wouldnt hurt. Imagine Winslow, CJ, and Braylon at the same time.

Freddy G
02-25-2007, 11:05 AM
yea after this run if johnson is there i jsut don't think we can pass him up. I know we have other needs but this seems to be a once in a decade player and you don't want to be the team that passed him up. Plus having another good WR wouldnt hurt. Imagine Winslow, CJ, and Braylon at the same time.



Well, at the very least it would give an excuse not to resign Braylon after his contract is up in 2 years (or is it 3?).

Us passing on him would be like Randy Moss falling to Minny...everyone regardless of their WRs wishes they would have taken him.

jriles0522
02-25-2007, 03:28 PM
Soo what happened to lynch's "4.3" speed. Peterson totally blew him away today. It has to be between peterson and johnson for us.

Freddy G
02-25-2007, 06:36 PM
Soo what happened to lynch's "4.3" speed. Peterson totally blew him away today. It has to be between peterson and johnson for us.


yep. I have like AD all long...by quite a bit.

GoldenBoy
02-25-2007, 06:47 PM
I wouldn't think Quinn is out of the mix. So often teams pretend not to be interested in a guy that they really are. Quinn has so much upside, and very little downside for a QB. It's such an interesting draft for the Browns, because Quinn could be the starting QB for the next decade, CJ could be a HOF wide out, Branch could be a cornerstone of our defense for years, Peterson would be a huge upgrade for our running game.... sucks we can only pick one.... oh yeah, I shouldn't forget Joe Thomas could anchor our line at tackle for the next decade.

I do remember it mentioned that part of the "brady quinn's stock is slipping" is comming from the fact that his game has been broken down forwards, backwards, sideways, and any which way, while "experts" are still doing their homework on Russell. I've seen video of some amazing video on Russell, but I'm still would like to know what holes experts will find his game once they scrutinize him.

For those of you on the Carriker bandwagon, he said at his press conference earlier today that he hasn't spoken with the Browns yet, but the Steelers have shown significant interest.

stl9erfan
02-25-2007, 08:51 PM
where's joemontanya at? would you still take lynch over peterson now?

i definately think that our pick is between CJ, AD, or Quinn. CJ wont supply the immediate impact that we would like to have, but he would make whoever i QB is next look a lot better. AD provides that fastest upgrade. which is probably why we'll take him since Crennel is in the hotseat. Quinn is starting be questionable for me. why is he not working out anywhere? no combine? i dont hold "lossing the big game" against him b/c it takes a whole team to win. but he does miss some easy passes everynow and again.

personally, i wouldnt be mad if crennel wasnt our head coach next year. i think he's failed twice now to make a decent coaching staff on the offensive side. i'd call marty.

jriles0522
02-25-2007, 11:10 PM
where's joemontanya at? would you still take lynch over peterson now?

i definately think that our pick is between CJ, AD, or Quinn. CJ wont supply the immediate impact that we would like to have, but he would make whoever i QB is next look a lot better. AD provides that fastest upgrade. which is probably why we'll take him since Crennel is in the hotseat. Quinn is starting be questionable for me. why is he not working out anywhere? no combine? i dont hold "lossing the big game" against him b/c it takes a whole team to win. but he does miss some easy passes everynow and again.

personally, i wouldnt be mad if crennel wasnt our head coach next year. i think he's failed twice now to make a decent coaching staff on the offensive side. i'd call marty.


First I agree on JoeMontanya's whereabouts. I was the first to comment after he had that lynch article posted and i kind of went off on him. Hope i didn't scare him away.

Simmsy we agree on this draft it seems when it comes to prospects we like, but i do think Johnson will have an immediate impact. I think he pushes joe j. down to the third wideout after the first few games and starts with edwards from there. Maybe not quite the AD impact, but a big one nonetheless.

And last i agree about Crennel. I'm not very impressed. This is really his make or break year. His hires are questionable and sometimes i wonder if he's not getting the effort from our guys that he should be getting. Personally, I'd like a coach who shows a little more emotion and tries to light a fire under guys during the game. Just my opinion though.

stl9erfan
02-25-2007, 11:32 PM
Personally, I'd like a coach who shows a little more emotion and tries to light a fire under guys during the game.

THATS WHAT I WANT TOO!!

Freddy G
02-26-2007, 09:08 AM
Well look at guys like Belichek, Lovie Smith, Dungy, Mangini now, Andy Reed, etc... they're like a brick wall, and they seem to get the job done.

Personally, i think Romeo is the best coach available we could have at this point. And your crazy if you think he has gotten a fair shot thus far. I say give him at least two more years. With that said, the only guy i would want to replace him is Mel Tucker the DB coach.

RoyHall#1
02-26-2007, 09:31 AM
I'm still confident in Romeo's ability to get the job done. But, if we have another 4-12 season I wouldn't mind seeing him go. As for CJ, I really would rather have AD or Joe Thomas. Did you expect him to run anything more than a 4.4? I don't understand why everyone is jumping on his bandwagon now. He probably is the best player in the draft, but there are other guys who can help our team more.

jriles0522
02-26-2007, 01:38 PM
This is from nfl.com, I believe a Pat Kirwan article...


"Imagine Cleveland trading for Schaub and drafting Adrian Peterson. That would get the Browns fans interested in the future"

That would be one hell of a deal right there. Just curious what would you guys be willing to give up for Schaub. Our 2nd rounder? I'd think hard about that, even though I'm having trouble understanding why he even put us in the discussion for Schaub, it's the first I've heard of that.

Also, I think we really have to go o-line in round 2, there will be some good value there and if we draft peterson or even quinn or russell for that matter we have to get them help up front. I'm not so sure we will be able to get steinbach or deilman, and that will really put us in a hole.

Iamcanadian
02-26-2007, 02:01 PM
The trouble with Peterson is, he is far more likely to be injured seriously by his second year. His running style means he'll take a huge amount of hits and his body hasn't shown the ability to take the punishment. He's a huge risk for the #3 pick and also a huge financial gamble. Top 5 teams don't usually take those risks and that is why you are seeing Peterson out of the top 5 in so many reliable draft sites. Top 5 teams are looking for a sure thing because if that prospect fails, you have basically wasted a whole year or 2 in your rebuilding program.
Let me ask you this, if we draft Peterson and he gets seriously injured and our rebuilding process is set back a year or 2, how long do you think Crennel or Savage would keep their jobs. That is why GM's are extremely reluctant to risk drafting an injury prone player in the top 5 when there are other elite prospects with far less risk involved.

jriles0522
02-26-2007, 02:31 PM
The trouble with Peterson is, he is far more likely to be injured seriously by his second year. His running style means he'll take a huge amount of hits and his body hasn't shown the ability to take the punishment. He's a huge risk for the #3 pick and also a huge financial gamble. Top 5 teams don't usually take those risks and that is why you are seeing Peterson out of the top 5 in so many reliable draft sites. Top 5 teams are looking for a sure thing because if that prospect fails, you have basically wasted a whole year or 2 in your rebuilding program.
Let me ask you this, if we draft Peterson and he gets seriously injured and our rebuilding process is set back a year or 2, how long do you think Crennel or Savage would keep their jobs. That is why GM's are extremely reluctant to risk drafting an injury prone player in the top 5 when there are other elite prospects with far less risk involved.


How long do you think crennel or savage would keep their job if whoever we pick in the first round gets hurt and our rebuilding process is set back a year or two and we go 5-11, 6-10 again?

JSimmsy21
02-26-2007, 03:25 PM
Peterson injuries were not that bad. he's seperated his shoulder. broke a collar bone. and had a high ankel sprain. 2 of those you never have to worry about again. the collar bone is the only one making ppl question. and that was a freak accident. i'll see if i can find a video.

i do agree he is a risk at #3. and b/c there's so much talk about us trading with houston. we wouldnt get him. i'd love to trade with the viks, get the 7th overall pick. and them some. at that spot, peterson would be of great value. and his paycheck would be FAR less.

snazel
02-26-2007, 07:23 PM
...i do agree he is a risk at #3. and b/c there's so much talk about us trading with houston. we wouldnt get him. i'd love to trade with the viks, get the 7th overall pick. and them some. at that spot, peterson would be of great value. and his paycheck would be FAR less.

Actually, I don't think Peterson is a risk at all. One of the surest things in the draft. Also, I've heard a lot about trade down/up rumors, but the only trade I see us making is if the Bucs want to move up one slot. We know for a fact they won't take Peterson, so we can still get an extra pick and land him at 4. If we trade down further with the Vikes, they would likely have to give up a second and third round draft pick, and I just down see that happening at all. There are a few other first rd WRs out there aside from Calvin that the Vikes can look into; Ginn, Gonzo, Jarrett, etc.

JoeMontainya
02-26-2007, 07:48 PM
The Bucs wont move up, the player they want might be CJ and they know the odds of us taking him are low.

"How long do you think crennel or savage would keep their job if whoever we pick in the first round gets hurt and our rebuilding process is set back a year or two and we go 5-11, 6-10 again?"

Savage's job isnt a risk, but Crennel's is. With a bad season this year exspect us to look at Marty Shotenhimer (sp?) next year (quote ESPN). Also they said we would look at Bill Cowher, but I dont exspect that, because hes under contract another year with Pittsburg, so to sign him the Steelers would get compensation from us.

Hail Browns
02-26-2007, 07:56 PM
Well look at guys like Belichek, Lovie Smith, Dungy, Mangini now, Andy Reed, etc... they're like a brick wall, and they seem to get the job done.

Personally, i think Romeo is the best coach available we could have at this point. And your crazy if you think he has gotten a fair shot thus far. I say give him at least two more years. With that said, the only guy i would want to replace him is Mel Tucker the DB coach.


I agree entirely with this statement. Romeo is that best for us right now, and 2 more years sounds great. Mel Tucker is my favorite to be the next Browns HC if Romeo is fired. I love how much he gets out of players, and he's still fairly young.

JoeMontainya
02-26-2007, 07:59 PM
Marty and Cowher would keep the 3-4 most likely which is good IMO.

It would be nice if we ever got rid of Crennel, that we signed him as the D cordinator, but that never happens.

JoeMontainya
02-26-2007, 08:00 PM
What was some of our draft picks 40 times last year? Specifically Wimbley and Jackson?

Hail Browns
02-26-2007, 08:01 PM
Well, at the very least it would give an excuse not to resign Braylon after his contract is up in 2 years (or is it 3?).

Us passing on him would be like Randy Moss falling to Minny...everyone regardless of their WRs wishes they would have taken him.


I don't think we should be talking about getting rid of Braylon. He's still got all the talent, he just needs to mature and learn to be a team player, it's something he's totally capable of doing. I think we should wait and see if he straightens out over the next season or so.

I do really like CJ though, and I would be excited if we got him, even if there are other areas we need to address. Imagine CJ, BE, and KII in a few years. To me, that kinda jumps out at you.

Hail Browns
02-26-2007, 08:03 PM
This is from nfl.com, I believe a Pat Kirwan article...


"Imagine Cleveland trading for Schaub and drafting Adrian Peterson. That would get the Browns fans interested in the future"

That would be one hell of a deal right there. Just curious what would you guys be willing to give up for Schaub. Our 2nd rounder? I'd think hard about that, even though I'm having trouble understanding why he even put us in the discussion for Schaub, it's the first I've heard of that.

Also, I think we really have to go o-line in round 2, there will be some good value there and if we draft peterson or even quinn or russell for that matter we have to get them help up front. I'm not so sure we will be able to get steinbach or deilman, and that will really put us in a hole.

I wouldn't want to trade for Schaub. We need to keep our picks to snatch some quality trench men.

JoeMontainya
02-26-2007, 08:10 PM
With the rumors that Dwayne Jarret will run a 4.7 or so at his pro day, theres a 90% chance he would drop to the 2nd round. i would love to have him if he fell.

Hail Browns
02-26-2007, 08:16 PM
With the rumors that Dwayne Jarret will run a 4.7 or so at his pro day, theres a 90% chance he would drop to the 2nd round. i would love to have him if he fell.

I don't think he drops out of the first unless he runs slower than 4.8. The way he plays the game, his production, he's too good to fall that far.

Jerry Rice, Mississippi Valley State University. He went 16th after running a 4.6 somethin'. I'm not saying Jarrett is in the same league or even close to the same league as Rice. It's just that a poor 40 will drop you, but not that far when you're just that good.

JoeMontainya
02-26-2007, 08:49 PM
Theres like 5 potential 1st round WR's and not that many teams will draft one in the first according to some scouts. One will fall to the 2nd. I use to think it would be Meachum, now the candidates might be Jarrett and Bowe.

After what Mike Williams did, Jarrett will drop, because they are comparable players.

Freddy G
02-26-2007, 08:54 PM
Just say no to Dwayne Jarrett.

To be honest, i don't mind him as a football player or even if the Browns drafted him....but not before round 3.

IMO, he is/has been one of the most overrated players in the entire draft for quite sometime. He is slow, weak, unexplosive, and not physical at all. He has good and is good in the red zone, but that is about it. There is nothing special about him to warrant a first or 2nd round pick. If he is there in the 3rd, then we take a look.

JoeMontainya
02-26-2007, 09:14 PM
Nope. Most teams might back off according to what you said for the 1st round. But as soon as a player like him slips to the 2nd, people will jump on him.

Hes no different than JJ, and was 10 times the college player he was. Still has potential also. And we are horrible on 3rd downs, thats his specialty down.

JSimmsy21
02-26-2007, 09:43 PM
call me crazy, but IMO, the 4.7 rumors about jarret are strictly rumors. if he was that slow college coaches wouldn't have even paid much attention to him.

Dwayne Jarret=Joe Jurivicious

we already have one. we dont need another slow but sure handed reciever. we need that REALLY fast guy that gets so wide open he doesnt have to be physical.

Iamcanadian
02-26-2007, 10:09 PM
I don't think he drops out of the first unless he runs slower than 4.8. The way he plays the game, his production, he's too good to fall that far.

Jerry Rice, Mississippi Valley State University. He went 16th after running a 4.6 somethin'. I'm not saying Jarrett is in the same league or even close to the same league as Rice. It's just that a poor 40 will drop you, but not that far when you're just that good.

Jerry Rice running a 4.6 or something is a complete myth. He ran in the 4.40 range at the combine.

See post below.

Iamcanadian
02-26-2007, 10:15 PM
I don't think he drops out of the first unless he runs slower than 4.8. The way he plays the game, his production, he's too good to fall that far.

Jerry Rice, Mississippi Valley State University. He went 16th after running a 4.6 somethin'. I'm not saying Jarrett is in the same league or even close to the same league as Rice. It's just that a poor 40 will drop you, but not that far when you're just that good.

It is a complete myth that Jerry Rice ran in thge 4.60 range, you don't get drafted in round 1 from Mississippi Valley St. unless you are spectacular at the combine.



Rice was special before he was drafted


By Gil Brandt
NFL.com Senior Analyst




(June 1, 2005) -- The 1985 NFL Draft was held on April 30, and on that day I was in my office in Dallas prepared to add a new member to our team. One of the players I was hoping to select was a wide receiver out of little-known Mississippi Valley State by the name of Jerry Rice. We had the 17th pick, and using it on him was certainly a possibility.


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The draft began with Buffalo picking first and taking Bruce Smith, followed by Atlanta taking Bill Fralic. There was only one wide receiver taken in the first 10 picks, and it was Al Toon going to the New York Jets. Things were looking good.

Houston, San Diego, Cincinnati, Buffalo and Kansas City all made their picks, and none of them were Rice. I remember getting excited as I hoped to catch the steal of the draft with our selection. New England came up on pick No. 16, and I sure didn't figure them to take a wide receiver since they took Irving Fryar the year before.

And then I heard the words that haunted me for a long, long time: "There has been a trade involving this pick, and San Francisco is now on the clock."

The Patriots got San Francisco's first-, second- and third-round picks for pick No. 16. Moments later, Rice was selected and was on his way to Northern California. Had the 49ers not traded up or taken someone else, Rice would have probably been our choice.

Now Rice, at the young age of 42, has signed on with the Denver Broncos and is still planning on playing 20 years later. I thought I would look back at our notes from when we scouted Rice back when he was in college and see what was accurate and what wasn't.

The first thing you may not have known about Rice is that in college, his nickname was "World," because according to his coaches and teammates he could catch anything in the world.

As is the case today, Rice was in great physical shape. According to the report, he had a "very big, strong pair of hands, long arms, tapered body, a well-developed upper body and arms." It did cite his lower legs for needing some development, but he had plenty of "natural strength."


Jerry Rice continues to play the game of football 20 years after his drafting.
****In the 40-yard dash he ran in the 4.4 range, which is excellent**** . Even with that good of a number, the report felt that Rice, "Plays better and runs better in game and on practice field than his 40 time. He has pro speed."

Equally impressive was his character. He had a "family that worked hard for everything," read the document. He was labeled as mature, soft spoken and respectful. I'd say that was correct.

So were there any negatives? There seemed to be a focus on his blocking that concerned the scouts. "He will not make an effort to cut or even push block," said the report. It also said Rice prefered to work along the right sideline and would need work on running patterns and reading the coverage. I'm pretty sure he's improved in all of these areas.

Also, he wore leather gloves until our scout asked him why he did. Since then, he didn't wear gloves. Maybe it helped his game.

When rating Rice on a scale of 1 to 9, with 9 being the highest and 3 being average, he scored 6s, 7s and 8s in character, competitiveness, strength and explosion, speed, short-yardage receiving, running ability after the catch, catching in a crowd and of course hands. Why no 9s? Because for some reason, we never gave out any 9s. We probably should have had the scale go from 1 to 8. And as you may expect, his worst grade came in blocking, a 3.

Our summary read as follows: "He could be a starter in this league in his second season for a contender. ... He has consistently been productive and durable in the past two seasons. He can be the type of player to play for a team in the NFL for a long time. The more I talk to him the more I am impressed with his character. He has big-play ability."

Sounds like Rice, doesn't it?

ClevelandDave
02-26-2007, 10:37 PM
Gentlemen...If we pick #3 we CAN'T make a mistake. He may not be your favorite choice but would any of you be truely miffed if we wound up with Russell, Quinn, Thomas, Johnson, Branch or Peterson? Pick at #3 is the sexy, but not savy decision.

Personally, I love the scenario of the domino trade-downs and picking 8th plus 6 Rd2 picks. Now THAT would be genius!

Reality is that our draft is completely dictated by our success in Free Agency. We MUST upgrade OG, NT, CB. It would be nice to upgrade/add at RB. We're 4 impact starters away from competing well. Whichever we don't get in Free Agency MUST be addressed in this draft.

JoeMontainya
02-26-2007, 11:08 PM
Savage said he will go offense in this draft like he said he would go D last year. He will go after an impact offensive player to take the pressure off the D. Peterson is the guy, it shouldnt be to hard to realize that.

And we do need a NT, but there arent any available in the draft, and really none available in FA. there are 2 good NT's in next years draft, Raji and Bryant, thats when we will upgrade the position. Just because you need to upgrade a position, doesnt mean it will allways happen, especially since there arent any candidates.

Man I wish Meachum would fall to RD2.

Edwards
Winslow
Peterson
are 3 good options to keep a deffense honest. It would be crazy if Meachum, Bowe or jarrett would be there in RD 2 to make 4 viable options, that alone makes an OL better, because a D cant constantly blitz like they currently do on us.

eliteeagle
02-26-2007, 11:21 PM
Savage said he will go offense in this draft like he said he would go D last year. He will go after an impact offensive player to take the pressure off the D. Peterson is the guy, it shouldnt be to hard to realize that.

And we do need a NT, but there arent any available in the draft, and really none available in FA. there are 2 good NT's in next years draft, Raji and Bryant, thats when we will upgrade the position. Just because you need to upgrade a position, doesnt mean it will allways happen, especially since there arent any candidates.

Man I wish Meachum would fall to RD2.

Edwards
Winslow
Peterson
are 3 good options to keep a deffense honest. It would be crazy if Meachum, Bowe or jarrett would be there in RD 2 to make 4 viable options, that alone makes an OL better, because a D cant constantly blitz like they currently do on us.

id rather ginn slip to round 2:p

JSimmsy21
02-27-2007, 01:27 AM
Gentlemen...If we pick #3 we CAN'T make a mistake. He may not be your favorite choice but would any of you be truely miffed if we wound up with Russell, Quinn, Thomas, Johnson, Branch or Peterson? Pick at #3 is the sexy, but not savy decision.

Personally, I love the scenario of the domino trade-downs and picking 8th plus 6 Rd2 picks. Now THAT would be genius!

Reality is that our draft is completely dictated by our success in Free Agency. We MUST upgrade OG, NT, CB. It would be nice to upgrade/add at RB. We're 4 impact starters away from competing well. Whichever we don't get in Free Agency MUST be addressed in this draft.

thank you for stating the obvious. i have a question tho for everyone. with all this talk about us trading with houston for carr and their first pick and whatnot, does the texans trade up for peterson or quinn?


And we do need a NT, but there arent any available in the draft, and really none available in FA.

i like tank tyler. he did do 42 reps at the combine. if he slips to the second rnd, i say we snatch him.

id rather ginn slip to round 2

ginn wants to be a corner. and with all the depth at the draft for wideouts, one of them will slip.

JoeMontainya
02-27-2007, 08:30 AM
"i like tank tyler. he did do 42 reps at the combine. if he slips to the second rnd, i say we snatch him. "

NT's have to be quick and explosive. Tank doesnt have any of that, and he weighted in at 306. The smallest starting NT in the NFL is 325.

snazel
02-27-2007, 09:55 AM
I'd take Paul Soliai on day two over Tank Tyler in rd2. Watching him get mauled by Kalil down in Mobile just really took him off my list. While he would definately be a fit at NT, I can't justify taking him in rd2. We can land the top OG prospect (either Blalock, Sears, or Grubbs) or one of the top LT prospects (Staley -maybe a late 1st rder, or Ugoh).

jriles0522
02-27-2007, 10:03 AM
I'd take Paul Soliai on day two over Tank Tyler in rd2. Watching him get mauled by Kalil down in Mobile just really took him off my list. While he would definately be a fit at NT, I can't justify taking him in rd2. We can land the top OG prospect (either Blalock, Sears, or Grubbs) or one of the top LT prospects (Staley -maybe a late 1st rder, or Ugoh).


Totally agree we should go o-line in Rd. 2.

JoeMontainya
02-27-2007, 12:05 PM
NFL | Peterson participates in combine despite family tragedy
Mon, 26 Feb 2007 06:47:31 -0800

Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports Oklahoma RB Adrian Peterson took part in his NFL Combine workout despite receiving news early Sunday, Feb. 25, that his half-brother was gunned down and killed in Texas. Despite the tragedy in his family, Peterson was nevertheless able to have an impressive workout, including posting a time of 4.38 seconds in his first 40-yard dash attempt. Peterson had spent much of the time before and after his workout on the phone with grieving family members and did not get much sleep Sunday morning.



Not sure if anyone else was aware of this.

RoyHall#1
02-27-2007, 12:21 PM
NFL | Peterson participates in combine despite family tragedy
Mon, 26 Feb 2007 06:47:31 -0800

Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports Oklahoma RB Adrian Peterson took part in his NFL Combine workout despite receiving news early Sunday, Feb. 25, that his half-brother was gunned down and killed in Texas. Despite the tragedy in his family, Peterson was nevertheless able to have an impressive workout, including posting a time of 4.38 seconds in his first 40-yard dash attempt. Peterson had spent much of the time before and after his workout on the phone with grieving family members and did not get much sleep Sunday morning.



Not sure if anyone else was aware of this.

No, but the 4.38 makes me aware of what our pick will be if Thomas isn't there.

JoeMontainya
03-01-2007, 12:29 AM
Anyone remember us losing Antonio Bryant in FA?

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/default.asp?item=510665
"The 49ers are expected to part ways with embattled receiver Antonio Bryant, a league source said. Bryant is in the midst of serving a four-game league-imposed suspension for violating the NFL's substance-abuse policy."

LOL.

JSimmsy21
03-01-2007, 01:08 AM
how do i delete posts?

Hail Browns
03-01-2007, 07:24 PM
If the Eagles don't bring Donte Stallworth back, I'd really like to see him sign with us. He's a type of receiver we don't have, a really fast one. He'd help stretch defenses a bit, and he's a legitamite slot man so that we wouldn't need to have someone so unproven (Wilson), sitting at the 3 spot on the depth chart.

Hail Browns
03-01-2007, 08:01 PM
Great news for us, we finally got Fraley resigned. It's a 4-year deal, no news on the money he's getting. I'm just glad we got him back. I found it on ESPN, I don't have the link, you can look for yourself if you like.

snazel
03-01-2007, 08:09 PM
This is very good news, thumbs up to Phil for getting a deal done with Fraley. I think this rules out Kalil in rd2 as an option, which is a good thing because I don't think he would've fallen that far, and there aren't many intriguing C prospect behind him in the draft anyway.

JoeMontainya
03-01-2007, 08:32 PM
Good job Phil. Centers arent in high demand right now, smart move by Fraley, this was his best shot at retaining a starting job.

JSimmsy21
03-02-2007, 12:33 AM
hm, a 4 year deal?

i wonder if its a deal involving not alot of money so he would be a backup later on, or a deal that is a security blanket if bently never comes back....interesting. i was really expecting a 2, mabye 3 year deal.

Iamcanadian
03-02-2007, 07:37 AM
[QUOTE=JSimmsy21;169656]thank you for stating the obvious. i have a question tho for everyone. with all this talk about us trading with houston for carr and their first pick and whatnot, does the texans trade up for peterson or quinn?





Don't make me sick please. Carr is a bum, he'll end up a career backup. He cannot read defenses, has a slow release, has a hard time finding the open receiver and has no leadership qualities. I just pray Savage doesn't take a shot on this guy, leave him to the Detroit's and Oaklland's, teams that remain on the bottom trying to rebuild through other team's rejects.

JoeMontainya
03-02-2007, 08:50 AM
About the Fraley deal, It was probably leverage (4 year deal) to get it done. And if he plays well it allways leaves the option for Bentley (if he comes back) to play gaurd.

twotondawg
03-02-2007, 10:13 PM
Does anybody know how interested the Vikings are in a WR? If they are then how about trading our 1st rd for their 1st and 2nd? And getting Branch/Brown/Okoye with the first? Then maybe Blalock with our second.

As an aside....can anybody provide a link for the draft pick value chart? I would greatly appreciate it.

JSimmsy21
03-02-2007, 10:27 PM
Does anybody know how interested the Vikings are in a WR? If they are then how about trading our 1st rd for their 1st and 2nd? And getting Branch/Brown/Okoye with the first? Then maybe Blalock with our second.

As an aside....can anybody provide a link for the draft pick value chart? I would greatly appreciate it.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/valuechart.html

there you go.

and for the trade with the viks. i've been all over that. if that were to happen, we could still get peterson. or even quinn. ever team before us has bigger needs or don't need a franchise RB.

twotondawg
03-02-2007, 10:38 PM
Thank you. I just think we need to fix or D first, then worry about the offense. Which is why I would use the second as another DL or Mike Bush; whom I like alot.

jriles0522
03-02-2007, 10:52 PM
Thank you. I just think we need to fix or D first, then worry about the offense. Which is why I would use the second as another DL or Mike Bush; whom I like alot.


Personally, I think that the defense is further along than the offense. Yes, we need a few young dlineman, and maybe a corner, but besides that we have plenty to get by. On offense we lack the three most important things, an offensive line, a running back, and a QB. I'm all for BPA in this draft, and if that means Peterson or Thomas then that's our guy. Also, I'm all for the trade down where i would love Quinn or Peterson, branch is solid no doubt, but seriously, do we need a richard seymour more than an LT or franchise QB? I don't think so. Also, i'm not a bush fan, he's too big to run like a fairy.