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Belish
02-12-2007, 07:17 PM
This was debated so much after the draft and after Roethlisberger won the Super Bowl, but now that all four first-round QBs have had significant playing, I think we can decide which QB was the best pick in hindsight.

In terms of talent and everything, I'm saying Philip Rivers. He spends a couple years on the bench, and then explodes for 22 TD to 9 INT is what was essentially his rookie season with only 1 real receiving threat. Add in the fact that the Chargers also received the pick that turned into Merriman makes him the best pick of the draft.

doingthisinsteadofwork
02-12-2007, 07:21 PM
Phillip Rivers.

njx9
02-12-2007, 07:22 PM
great, another poorly veiled low blow at manning.

Donno
02-12-2007, 07:29 PM
Philip Rivers has shown he can handle some pressure after Brees left, look at Rothlisberger this year no one has talked about him. Big Ben did win the big one but still.

cunningham06
02-12-2007, 07:38 PM
The keyword in the first post was hindsight which very few football fans are capable of, you have to look at more than just this season.


Philip Rivers had a good season, but overall Big Ben has been the best. He took a team that was mediocre, and took them to the playoffs, and then the season after, he took them to the superbowl. Philip Rivers was a game manager for an excellent team this season. Ben was also a game manager for the Steelers his first two seasons, but like Ben's first season, Rivers and the highly touted Chargers had a dissapointing playoff performance. Roethlisberger and the Steelers won a Superbowl, and the Chargers and Rivers did not, so how at this point is it possible to say that Rivers was the better pick than Roethlisberger?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
02-12-2007, 07:38 PM
I actually think the Giants front office wants Eli to fail. They might be the worst coached team in the league, Coughlin needs to be fired. If it's best pick, it's probably Rivers if you factor in that they got Merriman and Kaeding with it, but if you just go by draft position, you can make a case for Losman. He had an excellent year with a much less impressive cast, and has finally come into his own. He obviously wasn't quite as impressive as Rivers, but he didn't have the best player at 2 positions on offense to help him out, either. Plus when you factor in that Losman was picked, what? 20 spots behind Rivers, he may have been the best pick.

Freddy G
02-12-2007, 07:40 PM
I'll take the ring...after all that's the point right? (i am seriously doubting that people realize this)

Philliez01
02-12-2007, 07:43 PM
I like Eli Manning, I think most of his problems are just mental. He can correct them though, I know namesake got him some more recognition but I think some people are a bit too hard on him. He also needs to find consistency but once he does that, he'll be a pretty good QB.

Rivers played well this season and some of his late-season "struggles" can be directed at the Lis Franc sprain he suffered. It didn't hurt to have a record-breaking RB right behind him either. I also think he'll be a fine QB and this season really proved that. Once Jackson emerges. . . . .

Roethlisberger had to throw a little too much in the beginning of the season. He is a decent QB, hardly one of the best but I think that he's just going to be decent. He'll manage the game well, so to speak.

Losman really came a long way this season. He went from possibly being benched in favor of Craig Nall to being one of the promising players in the league. I think this year will really do well for him, if he develops even more. I don't think he's the best QB yet in this draft but we can start looking at him more seriously than we did before.

TCU
02-12-2007, 07:51 PM
1. Eli
2. Rivers
3. Roth.
4. JP Losman

sdpads24
02-12-2007, 07:51 PM
Right now...Big Ben is the best because he has a ring....untill someone else gets one from the 04 class, Big Ben should be the best right now.

dlions20
02-12-2007, 08:05 PM
Super Bowl rings make me really mad. ESPN said after Payton won that Terry bradshaw was a better overall QB.

Bradshaw had the same amount of TD's than he did career INT's and benefieted from one of the greatest teams of all time.

02-12-2007, 08:06 PM
I voted Phill Rivers but it is probably Big-Ben cause he has the SB ring but im pretty sure Rivers will be the next 1 to get it.

255979119
02-12-2007, 08:13 PM
Super Bowl rings make me really mad. ESPN said after Payton won that Terry bradshaw was a better overall QB.

Bradshaw had the same amount of TD's than he did career INT's and benefieted from one of the greatest teams of all time.


Different times man....

Next thing your going to say that Manning is better than Unitas because of stats.

Vince Lombardi
02-12-2007, 08:17 PM
god, how many times do we have to have this thread. :roll:

I've always liked Rivers the best, as I've stated time and time again, but don't feel like explaining my opinion on this anymore. :?

RaiderNation
02-12-2007, 08:23 PM
rivers

GiantRutgersFan
02-12-2007, 08:35 PM
Right now:

1. Big Ben
2. Eli
3. Rivers
4. Losman



But if Big Ben has another year like this one, he drops far. I pretty much gave him a break since he had 2 great seasons and now a terrible one.

Eli is over Rivers because the difference in the 2 teams are crazy. Eli also outplayed Rivers in big moments as well and was great before the crippling injuries... Factor in that and the clutch factor, I go with Eli.

Losman had a pretty good season, but he needs to prove himself still

ninerfan
02-12-2007, 08:42 PM
This topic is on a 3 month rotation

sdpads24
02-12-2007, 08:44 PM
Right now:
Eli is over Rivers because the difference in the 2 teams are crazy. Eli also outplayed Rivers in big moments as well and was great before the crippling injuries... Factor in that and the clutch factor, I go with Eli.
Are you crazy. River led the chargers to like 5 comeback wins. I can't think of any times where Eli has been clutch.

detroit4life
02-12-2007, 09:11 PM
if this poll were done last year it would be close to a 100 percent big ben maybe not completely 100 for all the eli homers but Big ben and the steelers had a bad year with his motor cycle accident to everything else that went wrong for them i have to put my vote for him his first two years were great and i think he's going to bounce back and be the same old ben next year.
And Rivers is definitly behind him and better than eli

PackerFan20
02-12-2007, 09:15 PM
Rothlasomething. The guy came in as a rookie and went undefeated in the reg. season.
Rivers had one good season but had to sit behind Brees for 2 years.
Manning will soon enough be a 30 TD type of guy and we should see him in the pro bowl soon. His career started with alot of incosistent play.
Losman is the most athletic of the group and probably doesnt get the publicity he deserves.

NIN1984
02-12-2007, 09:17 PM
Easy for me its Roethlisberger he already has a Super Bowl Championship and I think he will end up being a great QB for many years to come.

sdpads24
02-12-2007, 09:19 PM
MY QB rankings now
1.Rivers
2.Big Ben
3.Losman
4 eli

21ST
02-12-2007, 09:20 PM
This topic is on a 3 month rotation

QFT

Shiver
02-12-2007, 11:33 PM
This topic is on a 3 month rotation

QFT

Let's make a Michael Vick or Terrell Owens thread. YES!

Caddy
02-13-2007, 01:05 AM
In the long term my rankings would be:

1. Phillip Rivers
2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. JP Losman
4. Eli Manning

Finsfan79
02-13-2007, 09:04 AM
Well if Rivers includes the draft picks they got too then it is him. Otherwise I still believe None of them are really that special in the end.

art vandelay
02-13-2007, 09:56 AM
Sure, call me a homer, but you guys are seriously underestimating Losman. Some people don't realize how good of a season he had.

1. Rivers
2. Losman (almost first)
3. Roethilisberger
4. Manning

Geo
02-13-2007, 10:44 AM
I actually think the Giants front office wants Eli to fail. They might be the worst coached team in the league, Coughlin needs to be fired.
Eli's career will benefit, likely to a greater extent, from his second head coach just as big brother Peyton's did when the Colts dumped Jim Mora Sr. and hired Tony Dungy.

Coincidentally, both Manning brothers had to suffer through their first head coach for four years.

eacantdraft
02-13-2007, 11:36 AM
great, another poorly veiled low blow at manning.

Don't get so sensy and paranoid at every perceived jab at your dreamboy.

bigbluedefense
02-13-2007, 11:50 AM
Get em NJX9, make us proud.

San Diego Chicken
02-13-2007, 12:35 PM
I'll still go with career passer rating here -


Rivers - 90.5
Roethlisberger - 87.9
Losman - 77.4
Eli - 73.2

Except I would probably flip around Ben and Rivers.

Michele Forbes
02-13-2007, 12:38 PM
Rivers
Big Ben
Losman
Eli

Xiomera
02-13-2007, 12:41 PM
Best QB of the group? Rivers by the slimmest of margins, though Losman was the best pick of the group in terms of value. He is really no worse than the other 3 guys and he got picked much later in the round.

NIN1984
02-13-2007, 12:45 PM
We all pretty much have Eli ranked last but he has been in the NFL 3 years and made the playoffs twice we should probably give him some props and rank him 3rd...

nothing against Losman but he hasn’t been in the playoffs yet

Big Ben- Super Bowl Winner
Rivers- Playoffs
Manning- Playoffs
Losman

and plus its not like Losman's stats are blowing away Manning's

njx9
02-13-2007, 01:11 PM
Get em NJX9, make us proud.

it's just not even worth it. his utter infatuation with eli has psychologically damaged him to the point that anyone who professes so much as mild ambivalence is clearly "in love with" and trying to steal eli from him.

ea: grow up. the fact that you've essentially turned every argument you've ever been wrong in into a personal attack on the poster's sexuality is pathetic.

eacantdraft
02-13-2007, 01:29 PM
Get em NJX9, make us proud.

it's just not even worth it. his utter infatuation with eli has psychologically damaged him to the point that anyone who professes so much as mild ambivalence is clearly "in love with" and trying to steal eli from him.

ea: grow up. the fact that you've essentially turned every argument you've ever been wrong in into a personal attack on the poster's sexuality is pathetic.

This is from someone who acts like every thread that debates the class of 2004 is an attack on his boytoy. No one mentioned Eli, yet you come in and whine that it is an attack on Eli. All this thread is a ranking of QB's, not an attack on your "man".

Jughead10
02-13-2007, 01:31 PM
Get em NJX9, make us proud.

it's just not even worth it. his utter infatuation with eli has psychologically damaged him to the point that anyone who professes so much as mild ambivalence is clearly "in love with" and trying to steal eli from him.

ea: grow up. the fact that you've essentially turned every argument you've ever been wrong in into a personal attack on the poster's sexuality is pathetic.

This is from someone who acts like every thread that debates the class of 2004 is an attack on his boytoy. No one mentioned Eli, yet you come in and whine that it is an attack on Eli. All this thread is a ranking of QB's, not an attack on your "man".

Why would Njx even have any loyalty or reason to defend Eli. He is a Broncos fan. Its not like he defending Cutler.

keylime_5
02-13-2007, 01:33 PM
Roethlisberger won the super bowl and was rookie of the year. Rivers just absolutely went into the tank starting the week he was named into the pro bowl, and Eli has sucked for a couple years

02-13-2007, 01:34 PM
Roethlisberger won the super bowl and was rookie of the year. Rivers just absolutely went into the tank starting the week he was named into the pro bowl, and Eli has sucked for a couple years

Roethlisberger also played like crap once his role was increased.

njx9
02-13-2007, 01:37 PM
Get em NJX9, make us proud.

it's just not even worth it. his utter infatuation with eli has psychologically damaged him to the point that anyone who professes so much as mild ambivalence is clearly "in love with" and trying to steal eli from him.

ea: grow up. the fact that you've essentially turned every argument you've ever been wrong in into a personal attack on the poster's sexuality is pathetic.

This is from someone who acts like every thread that debates the class of 2004 is an attack on his boytoy. No one mentioned Eli, yet you come in and whine that it is an attack on Eli. All this thread is a ranking of QB's, not an attack on your "man".

you seem to forget that i've never once defended eli, so much as i've pointed out the gaping holes in your logic. but somehow that turned, in your mind, into me and eli being totally rudy cool for each other. but hey, it's totally normal for 13 year olds to revert to the "you're ***" argument when they're consistently wrong.

Jughead10
02-13-2007, 01:39 PM
Roethlisberger won the super bowl and was rookie of the year. Rivers just absolutely went into the tank starting the week he was named into the pro bowl, and Eli has sucked for a couple years

It is really so hard to compare. There are mitigating factors for everyone.

Eli has had the most on his plate to deal with as far as responsibilites and running the offense. He has also struggled the most besides Losman, although not nearly as bad as everyone makes him out to be.

Roethlisberger won the Super Bowl in basically a dumbed down offense. He was also the worst winning QB in Super Bowl history. This season he was terrible, maybe the worst season any of the 4 have had. But he still has that ring.

Rivers sat for two years and then came in and was on fire. High completion % but not as flashy as what Ben and Eli had done in the past. He also regressed a bit at the end. Next year will be a huge year for him in a whole new staff. I really think the loss of Cameron is going to be bigger than anyone imagined and I think that was the best hire of the offseason by the Dolphins.

Losman, looked the worst of them all. But played decently this year on a team that might be the least talented. Made you think there is definately hope there.

eacantdraft
02-13-2007, 02:36 PM
Roethlisberger won the super bowl and was rookie of the year. Rivers just absolutely went into the tank starting the week he was named into the pro bowl, and Eli has sucked for a couple years

It is really so hard to compare. There are mitigating factors for everyone.

Eli has had the most on his plate to deal with as far as responsibilites and running the offense. He has also struggled the most besides Losman, although not nearly as bad as everyone makes him out to be.

Roethlisberger won the Super Bowl in basically a dumbed down offense. He was also the worst winning QB in Super Bowl history. This season he was terrible, maybe the worst season any of the 4 have had. But he still has that ring.

Rivers sat for two years and then came in and was on fire. High completion % but not as flashy as what Ben and Eli had done in the past. He also regressed a bit at the end. Next year will be a huge year for him in a whole new staff. I really think the loss of Cameron is going to be bigger than anyone imagined and I think that was the best hire of the offseason by the Dolphins.

Losman, looked the worst of them all. But played decently this year on a team that might be the least talented. Made you think there is definately hope there.

Wait a minute, are you saying Ben had a worse season this year than what Eli had his rookie year or what Losman had last year. Ben's season rating was only a few points behind Eli's this year and had 1 less win than what Eli did.

eacantdraft
02-13-2007, 02:38 PM
Get em NJX9, make us proud.

it's just not even worth it. his utter infatuation with eli has psychologically damaged him to the point that anyone who professes so much as mild ambivalence is clearly "in love with" and trying to steal eli from him.

ea: grow up. the fact that you've essentially turned every argument you've ever been wrong in into a personal attack on the poster's sexuality is pathetic.

This is from someone who acts like every thread that debates the class of 2004 is an attack on his boytoy. No one mentioned Eli, yet you come in and whine that it is an attack on Eli. All this thread is a ranking of QB's, not an attack on your "man".

Why would Njx even have any loyalty or reason to defend Eli. He is a Broncos fan. Its not like he defending Cutler.

Njx is the same guy who says his team's Hall of Fame QB sucked while getting all ga ga over Michael Vick.

Jughead10
02-13-2007, 02:41 PM
Roethlisberger won the super bowl and was rookie of the year. Rivers just absolutely went into the tank starting the week he was named into the pro bowl, and Eli has sucked for a couple years

It is really so hard to compare. There are mitigating factors for everyone.

Eli has had the most on his plate to deal with as far as responsibilites and running the offense. He has also struggled the most besides Losman, although not nearly as bad as everyone makes him out to be.

Roethlisberger won the Super Bowl in basically a dumbed down offense. He was also the worst winning QB in Super Bowl history. This season he was terrible, maybe the worst season any of the 4 have had. But he still has that ring.

Rivers sat for two years and then came in and was on fire. High completion % but not as flashy as what Ben and Eli had done in the past. He also regressed a bit at the end. Next year will be a huge year for him in a whole new staff. I really think the loss of Cameron is going to be bigger than anyone imagined and I think that was the best hire of the offseason by the Dolphins.

Losman, looked the worst of them all. But played decently this year on a team that might be the least talented. Made you think there is definately hope there.

Wait a minute, are you saying Ben had a worse season this year than what Eli had his rookie year or what Losman had last year. Ben's season rating was only a few points behind Eli's this year and had 1 less win than what Eli did.

I really didn't count Eli's rookie season. Full seasons I should have said. Qb Rating is a flawed system in my opinion. It is too completion % based. If a QB has more TDs less INTs and more wins, I could really care less if someone has better completion % and closer rating. Losman was bad as well but out of all these QBs full years Ben's was definately the worse.

njx9
02-13-2007, 02:59 PM
Get em NJX9, make us proud.

it's just not even worth it. his utter infatuation with eli has psychologically damaged him to the point that anyone who professes so much as mild ambivalence is clearly "in love with" and trying to steal eli from him.

ea: grow up. the fact that you've essentially turned every argument you've ever been wrong in into a personal attack on the poster's sexuality is pathetic.

This is from someone who acts like every thread that debates the class of 2004 is an attack on his boytoy. No one mentioned Eli, yet you come in and whine that it is an attack on Eli. All this thread is a ranking of QB's, not an attack on your "man".

Why would Njx even have any loyalty or reason to defend Eli. He is a Broncos fan. Its not like he defending Cutler.

Njx is the same guy who says his team's Hall of Fame QB sucked while getting all ga ga over Michael Vick.

nope, that was you failing to get the point because you were too hung up on discussing my sexuality. basically every argument you've ever provided in either debate consisted of "well, you love vick/eli you fanboyloverhomo". i compared you're moronically flawed argument against vick to the same kind of flawed argument against a hall of fame player. if you were too thick to get that, well, an online nfl board may not be the best place for you to spend time. then again, i think that was obvious considering the quality of 96% of the things you've posted.

dcarey20
02-13-2007, 03:05 PM
1. Rivers
2. Losman
3. Roethlisberger
4. Manning

ricky bobby
02-13-2007, 03:18 PM
Eli never wins these threads. At this moment, i'm still going to have to go. Big Ben's SB victory is the only thing that keeps him above Losman. He completely sucked this season.

1. Rivers
2. Eli
3. Ben
4. Losman

2drama
02-13-2007, 03:23 PM
Still too early to judge
let look back into this in 10 years 8)

bills_red
02-13-2007, 03:58 PM
QB name QB Rating in '06 Rank in NFL
Rivers 92.0 started all games 8
Losman 84.9 started all games 11
Eli 77.0 started all games 18
Ben 75.4 stared 15 games 21

QB name QB Rating in '05 Rank in NFL
Rivers 50.4 played in 2 games Below 30
Losman 64.9 played in 9 gmaes Below 30
Eli 75.9 started all games 23
Ben 98.6 played in 12 games 3

QB name QB Ranting in '04 Rank in NFL
Rivers 110.9 played in 2 games Tied for 2
Losman 39.2 played in 4 games Below 30
Eli 55.4 played in 9 games Below 30
Ben 98.1 playd in 14 games 5

Going by the QB rating it's

Ben
Rivers
Losman/Eli

But IMO

Rivers
Ben
Losman
Eli

Space Ghost
02-13-2007, 04:06 PM
QB name QB Rating in '06 Rank in NFL
Rivers 92.0 started all games 8
Losman 84.9 started all games 11
Eli 77.0 started all games 18
Ben 75.4 stared 15 games 21

QB name QB Rating in '05 Rank in NFL
Rivers 50.4 played in 2 games Below 30
Losman 64.9 played in 9 gmaes Below 30
Eli 75.9 started all games 23
Ben 98.6 played in 12 games 3

QB name QB Ranting in '04 Rank in NFL
Rivers 110.9 played in 2 games Tied for 2
Losman 39.2 played in 4 games Below 30
Eli 55.4 played in 9 games Below 30
Ben 98.1 playd in 14 games 5

Going by the QB rating it's

Ben
Rivers
Losman/Eli

But IMO

Rivers
Ben
Losman
Eli

I wouldn't bother putting Losman in 04 and Rivers in 04 or 05 for obvious reasons.

bills_red
02-13-2007, 04:15 PM
QB name QB Rating in '06 Rank in NFL
Rivers 92.0 started all games 8
Losman 84.9 started all games 11
Eli 77.0 started all games 18
Ben 75.4 stared 15 games 21

QB name QB Rating in '05 Rank in NFL
Rivers 50.4 played in 2 games Below 30
Losman 64.9 played in 9 gmaes Below 30
Eli 75.9 started all games 23
Ben 98.6 played in 12 games 3

QB name QB Ranting in '04 Rank in NFL
Rivers 110.9 played in 2 games Tied for 2
Losman 39.2 played in 4 games Below 30
Eli 55.4 played in 9 games Below 30
Ben 98.1 playd in 14 games 5

Going by the QB rating it's

Ben
Rivers
Losman/Eli

But IMO

Rivers
Ben
Losman
Eli

I wouldn't bother putting Losman in 04 and Rivers in 04 or 05 for obvious reasons.
Agree, but I did

PoopSandwich
02-13-2007, 04:20 PM
I don't get how you can't pick Roethlisberger, he was the 10th pick (I had him going 3rd to the Cardinals) and he led his team to the superbowl (He didn't do very much in the super bowl however)

someone447
02-13-2007, 04:22 PM
The QB gets WAY too much credit when their team wins the Super Bowl. Why not the running back? He is just as important as the QB, without a running game you can't win. Look at Dan Marino. It is a team sport, number of rings shouldn't be considered when talking about who is better. I would take Marino over Bradshaw any day. I say:
Rivers
Manning
Roethlskhdgo;asghosadghosadghosapdghosgrger
Losman

princefielder28
02-13-2007, 04:23 PM
I always thought Big Ben, even before draft day, was going to be the best of the four and I can assume I'm right for the time being. He does have a ring and he will recover nicely this year. He had a rough year last year with his own injuries and team injuries but he'll be fine.

YAYareaRB
02-13-2007, 05:49 PM
What if his name was Eli Weathersby?

GiantRutgersFan
02-13-2007, 07:19 PM
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....

buckeyes12
02-14-2007, 06:55 PM
you can say that Big Ben is better than Eli because he did win a superbowl, and MAYBE Rivers because SD went 14-2. But he doesnt have a playoff win, neither does Eli.

but JP LOSMAN!? Absolutely nothing to show for at all. If you consider him better than Eli Manning then you have some problems.

02-14-2007, 07:15 PM
What if his name was Eli Weathersby?

Probably would have gone just as high. He was a great prospect

Space Ghost
02-14-2007, 07:20 PM
My personal rankings are:

1. Ben Roethlisberger
2. Philip Rivers
3. JP Losman
4. Eli Manning

Big Ben is number one for me because he is the most mature of the four and has played in the most games and had the most success. He had posted great career numbers until this year when he had to throw more often then he is accustomed to and was probably in worse shape than he let on after the surgery, accident and injury. He had a bad season this year, but is the most proven so far and has had the most success.

Rivers had a great year this year in a quarterback friendly system, but he had his bumps late in the season and had a couple awful games. He had the best quarterback rating of the bunch this season and made the pro bowl but didn't play due to injury. He is the least experienced in the NFL but had the most preparation for his NFL debut.

JP Losman was statistically the second best of the bunch this year for the Bills wither perhaps the least talent and worst offensive line. He had a fantastic season, especially after the bye week where he started to get hot. He made some comebacks and got the Bills to a 7-9 record. He had his few bad games like everyone else did this year, most notably that game in Chicago, that was a bad day...

Eli Manning has been the most inconsistent player probably. He hasn't really even been able to pull out a good stretch of games to look at ass successful. He had the worst year of all the quarterbacks this year in my opinion because he didn't go through what Roethlisberger did and he still came up empty.

EDIT.

I guess I kind of missed the point of this thread though after that. The best pick in the draft of these four was Ben Roethlisberger. Both at the time of the draft and now. At the time of the draft I had the rankings as Manning/Roethlisberger/Rivers/Losman and Ben lasted until the Steelers pick and they got a steal. They also got the most production the earliest and also got a Super Bowl with him, I don't think you can argue that Ben wasn't the best pick, especially when Manning and Rivers weren't necessarily drafted by their teams so you kind of have to eliminate them.

asmitty45
02-14-2007, 08:22 PM
Gotta be roethlisberger, he's the only one who has won anything.

Eli, JP and Rivers havent done anything in the postseason and thats when it counts

niel89
02-14-2007, 08:39 PM
I like Eli Manning, I think most of his problems are just mental. He can correct them though, I know namesake got him some more recognition but I think some people are a bit too hard on him. He also needs to find consistency but once he does that, he'll be a pretty good QB.

Rivers played well this season and some of his late-season "struggles" can be directed at the Lis Franc sprain he suffered. It didn't hurt to have a record-breaking RB right behind him either. I also think he'll be a fine QB and this season really proved that. Once Jackson emerges. . . . .

Roethlisberger had to throw a little too much in the beginning of the season. He is a decent QB, hardly one of the best but I think that he's just going to be decent. He'll manage the game well, so to speak.

Losman really came a long way this season. He went from possibly being benched in favor of Craig Nall to being one of the promising players in the league. I think this year will really do well for him, if he develops even more. I don't think he's the best QB yet in this draft but we can start looking at him more seriously than we did before.
Craig nall:

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/news/apr02/nall426.jpg

his touchdowns are worth double

PackerFan20
02-14-2007, 08:41 PM
Craig Nall might be apart of a line of Qb's who have had sucess after backing up Favre.

Brunell
Warner(Though he never made it out of training camp)
Hassleback
Brooks
Nall???

mpindo3
02-14-2007, 10:49 PM
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....

Spoken like someone who didn't watch a Chargers game this year. But hey, I'll give you that if you concede that Eli is the king of the chunk-it-jump-ball-to-plax throw. And did you actually watch the playoff game? yeah, the same one where his receivers had 7 dropped passes and he STILL had a comparable game to Tom "golden boy" Brady. Bring a coherent argument or shut up.

and for the record, my opinion at the moment is ben, philip, eli, jp.

art vandelay
02-15-2007, 06:21 AM
Roethislberger was a glorified game manager when he won the Super Bowl. As soon as he was forced to throw more to bring his team back in games he threw dumb INT's.

art vandelay
02-15-2007, 06:21 AM
Is this thread saying which QB had the most value at their pick or who is the best QB out of all of them?

02-15-2007, 07:09 AM
I'll just rank them as quarterbacks, not as picks:

1. Phillip Rivers
2. Big Ben
3. JP Losman
4. Eli Manning

FOOTBALLFAN09
02-15-2007, 10:55 AM
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....

If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.

FOOTBALLFAN09
02-15-2007, 10:59 AM
Also, consider that we got Philip Rivers, Shawne Merriman, and Nate Kaeding in that trade people. We CLEARLY made the best pick.

njx9
02-15-2007, 11:01 AM
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....

If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.

counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.

FOOTBALLFAN09
02-15-2007, 11:12 AM
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....

If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.



counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.

No, it is NOT misleading. Even if you don't consider that game he led us back 4 times and absolutely drove us down the field over and over against the Bengals in that amazing comeback. He makes big plays, period.

njx9
02-15-2007, 11:14 AM
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....

If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.



counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.

No, it is NOT misleading. Even if you don't consider that game he led us back 4 times and absolutely drove us down the field over and over against the Bengals in that amazing comeback. He makes big plays, period.

it's not misleading because he did other things that aren't really related to that particular statement? cool.

let me know when he's won more playoff games than eli.

bucknut12
02-15-2007, 11:21 AM
Philip Rivers has shown he can handle some pressure after Brees left, look at Rothlisberger this year no one has talked about him. Big Ben did win the big one but still.Ben should have sat the year out.

He got in a wreck and he was almost killed.

He then had an appendectomy.

Ben is the best QB. He just wasn't 100% this year.

AlexDown
02-15-2007, 11:24 AM
What if his name was Eli Weathersby?

Probably would have gone just as high.

No he woulden't have.

FOOTBALLFAN09
02-15-2007, 11:40 AM
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....

If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.



counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.

No, it is NOT misleading. Even if you don't consider that game he led us back 4 times and absolutely drove us down the field over and over against the Bengals in that amazing comeback. He makes big plays, period.

it's not misleading because he did other things that aren't really related to that particular statement? cool.

let me know when he's won more playoff games than eli.

Haha, considering neither have won a playoff game, let me know when Eli has over a 90 passer rating and over 60% completions. Thanks!

njx9
02-15-2007, 11:48 AM
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....

If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.



counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.

No, it is NOT misleading. Even if you don't consider that game he led us back 4 times and absolutely drove us down the field over and over against the Bengals in that amazing comeback. He makes big plays, period.

it's not misleading because he did other things that aren't really related to that particular statement? cool.

let me know when he's won more playoff games than eli.

Haha, considering neither have won a playoff game, let me know when Eli has over a 90 passer rating and over 60% completions. Thanks!

December 3rd at Dallas. any other questions you could've easily looked up for yourself?

San Diego Chicken
02-15-2007, 12:10 PM
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....

If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.

counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.


I think you might be the one misleading people. Larry Coyer more responsible for that game than Philip Rivers? That's definitely a matter of perspective, wouldn't you say?

Sveen
02-15-2007, 12:56 PM
I would have to go with Philip Rivers, followed by Big Ben.

njx9
02-15-2007, 01:22 PM
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....

If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.

counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.


I think you might be the one misleading people. Larry Coyer more responsible for that game than Philip Rivers? That's definitely a matter of perspective, wouldn't you say?

sorry, yes, we should all give philip rivers credit for his uncanny ability to stand up to no pass rush and pick apart a 9 deep prevent defense while LT ran wild against linebackers who were too busy retreating to cover the run. and it wasn't the san diego defense or jake plummer who cost denver the win, it was philip rivers, forcing plummer to throw yet another errant pass.

sorry, wouldn't want to take away credit for making plays the average high school quarterback should make.

Finlayson56
02-15-2007, 01:39 PM
Phillip Rivers.

San Diego Chicken
02-15-2007, 01:41 PM
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....

If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.

counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.


I think you might be the one misleading people. Larry Coyer more responsible for that game than Philip Rivers? That's definitely a matter of perspective, wouldn't you say?

sorry, yes, we should all give philip rivers credit for his uncanny ability to stand up to no pass rush and pick apart a 9 deep prevent defense while LT ran wild against linebackers who were too busy retreating to cover the run. and it wasn't the san diego defense or jake plummer who cost denver the win, it was philip rivers, forcing plummer to throw yet another errant pass.

sorry, wouldn't want to take away credit for making plays the average high school quarterback should make.


We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.

njx9
02-15-2007, 01:45 PM
We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.

oh, right, we blitzed early, when we built up the lead. just like we did in every other game. then, in the second half, we essentially went to a no-blitz, prevent defense. just like in every other game in the second half of the season. even assuming you're correct about the wheel route, i have serious doubts that rivers even felt pressure, but that's neither here nor there. again, san diego moved the ball at will on denver because of poor coaching and lack of talent on denver's side. not because philip rivers put them on his back as the OP intimated.

02-15-2007, 03:05 PM
What if his name was Eli Weathersby?

Probably would have gone just as high.

No he woulden't have.

I think he would have. Eli had it all as a prospect. Scott said he was the 2nd best QB prospect he had ever seen. Teams aren't going to draft a guy a lot higher just because his brother is great, he had all the tools to be worthy of the #1 pick.

smittyjs
02-15-2007, 03:38 PM
Philip Rivers

mpindo3
02-15-2007, 03:44 PM
We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.

oh, right, we blitzed early, when we built up the lead. just like we did in every other game. then, in the second half, we essentially went to a no-blitz, prevent defense. just like in every other game in the second half of the season. even assuming you're correct about the wheel route, i have serious doubts that rivers even felt pressure, but that's neither here nor there. again, san diego moved the ball at will on denver because of poor coaching and lack of talent on denver's side. not because philip rivers put them on his back as the OP intimated.

njx9, while i highly value your opinion, i would be much more inclined to have a conversation on the matter if all your posts weren't so defensive and caustic. you might get intelligent responses back if you didn't make it sound like sour grapes of some sort. i'm not sure what your beef is with philip, but there's no need to be so cynical with every remark.

Now, I know I'm a completely biased homer, but I thought Philip did an excellent job keeping his composure after that pick 6 and down by 17 midway through the 3rd quarter in one of the most difficult stadiums to play in in the NFL. You can say what you want, but he was 10/12 for 149 yards, 2 td, and 1 int in the 2nd half of that game. That's pretty damn clutch if you ask me.

njx9
02-15-2007, 03:55 PM
We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.

oh, right, we blitzed early, when we built up the lead. just like we did in every other game. then, in the second half, we essentially went to a no-blitz, prevent defense. just like in every other game in the second half of the season. even assuming you're correct about the wheel route, i have serious doubts that rivers even felt pressure, but that's neither here nor there. again, san diego moved the ball at will on denver because of poor coaching and lack of talent on denver's side. not because philip rivers put them on his back as the OP intimated.

njx9, while i highly value your opinion, i would be much more inclined to have a conversation on the matter if all your posts weren't so defensive and caustic. your might get intelligent responses back if you didn't make it sound like sour grapes of some sort. i'm not sure what your beef is with philip, but there's no need to be so cynical with every remark.

Now, I know I'm a completely biased homer, but I thought Philip did an excellent job keeping his composure after that pick 6 and down by 17 midway through the 3rd quarter in one of the most difficult stadiums to play in in the NFL. You can say what you want, but he was 10/12 for 149 yards, 2 td, and 1 int in the 2nd half of that game. That's pretty damn clutch if you ask me.

part of the problem here likely is because you don't know i'm a denver fan, and that the mere thought of that collapse... well, induces violent rage.

i don't hate philip at all, he was by FAR my favorite qb in that draft and, before the senior bowl, someone i really wanted denver to pick up. i hate him now for divisional reasons, but those have little to do with his ability to play the position.

regardless. that particular game did not make me think more highly of him as a qb. like i said, he did what most high school qbs would be expected to do in similar circumstances. that's not a knock on his ability.

Shiver
02-15-2007, 04:01 PM
This debate needs to be put off, until this time next year. At that point, Eli Manning will have had 3-1/2 years as a starter, Philip Rivers with 2, Ben Roethlisberger with 4, JP Losman with 3-1/2.

mpindo3
02-15-2007, 04:10 PM
I understand your position, I guess it just irks me when people rail on a specific player for no reason. That is in no way a slight on you, so don't think I'm saying that. Just a general observation of these forums. The fact of the matter is all 4 qb's are far from their prime and none are in a position to carry a team to victory by themselves. Did Philip play great the last quarter and a half of the Denver game? Absolutely. But they don't win if the players on the receiving end of those passes don't make the plays they're suppose to. The same reason you can't pin the playoff loss to the Pats on Philip. The receivers dropped an insane amount of EASY catches that "high school" wideouts and tightends should make. McCree could have ended the game with a knock down of that pass or just falling to the ground after the INT.

Who knows how well Eli would be doing right now if it weren't for having Coughlin as a coach and the inordinate amount of injuries the Giants have faced the past couple years. Next year he loses one of the top 5 RBs in the game right now. How will he adjust? Ben just needs to get healthy and JP needs to mature as a QB with his WRs. All 4 will be outstanding and is why knocking any four of them is completely ignorant at this point. None of them are colossal failures. None of them are Hall of Fame QBs. Yet. All four could go either way right now. This discussion shouldn't even take place for another 3 or 4 years anyway.

njx9
02-15-2007, 04:18 PM
This debate needs to be put off, until this time next year. At that point, Eli Manning will have had 3-1/2 years as a starter, Philip Rivers with 2, Ben Roethlisberger with 4, JP Losman with 3-1/2.

why would we put this off till next year when next year, we can decide whether vince, cutler or leinart are busts or hall of famers?

This discussion shouldn't even take place for another 3 or 4 years anyway.

see above, but substitute in whatever qbs are in their second or third year then.

and ncst8: absolutely agree.

Cerni88
02-15-2007, 04:28 PM
well if we compare the numbers from the last two seasons...

Phillip rivers (1 season for him of course)-3388 yards, 61%, 22 TD 9 INT
Ben Roethlisberger- 5898 yards, 60%, 35 TD 32 INT
Eli Manning- 7006 yards ,54%, 48 TD 35 INT
J.P. Losman- 4391 yards, 55%, 27 TD 22 INT

from those numbers Eli has had an easier time finding the endzone, but also threw the most picks. Now, if we exclude Eli, and compare Big Ben's numbers with the other two, Losman having one of the two seasons rotating with Kelly Holcomb, and Rivers, who had his first starting season. if Rivers were to have played two seasons his number might look something like 6000 passing yards, 40 TD and 20 INT and maybe 55-60%. but the point is, i don't think you can really make a strong case that any of these guys were any better than the other. Rivers and Losman haven't played enough. and i refuse to give the crown to Big Ben just because his team won a superbowl. he was 9-21 for 123 yards...and 2 picks in that game. But anyway, it's too hard to say who has turned out the best. the picture should be a lot clearer next year.

Dave
02-15-2007, 04:29 PM
Rivers.

bigbluedefense
02-15-2007, 06:41 PM
I used to partake in these discussions, but this discussion might be the most useless debate in the history of this board. We constantly have this discussion, it rambles on forever, and it leads to nowwhere. Everyone has their own predetermined favorite in this pile, and theres nothing you can say or do to change their mind. Its almost like politics.

Nowadays, I just grab some popcorn and enjoy the show. No use in wasting valuable font on a topic beaten to absolute death.

art vandelay
02-15-2007, 08:41 PM
This debate needs to be put off, until this time next year. At that point, Eli Manning will have had 3-1/2 years as a starter, Philip Rivers with 2, Ben Roethlisberger with 4, JP Losman with 3-1/2.

You really need to do starts as games, not as years, because Losman has only started 24 games in 4 years. Right now, he has only technically started 1 1/2 years at QB. If he were to stay healthy and start all 16 games next year, he will still only have started for 2 1/2 years.

AZ9er
02-15-2007, 08:51 PM
Big ben
Rivers/JP Losman
Manning

and in terms of progression as Quarterbacks translating throughout nect year JP losman will be number 2 at the end of next year

NFLBOY
02-15-2007, 08:58 PM
Ben has proven he can win and that he is failable with this past bad season. He is the best so far, history is proving that also.
Eli? who knows what this guy is even trying to do. Has the ability, not sure if he has the smarts.
Rivers looks very good, but 1 season doesn't make a great qb. Give him 2 more years starting and then we'll see how good.
Losman, well not much needs to be said here. Looks o.k. at times , but hasn't done anything to merit a big bright future.