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SF Dolphin Fan
11-05-2007, 11:31 AM
Right now the #1 pick in the 2008 draft appears to be a "battle" between the Dolphins and the Rams. If Miami ends up with the top pick what direction should they go? Dorsey is a nice player, but doesn't seem like the right fit for the current defensive scheme (of course don't rule out that Capers could be gone after the season). How about Chris Long as a versatile DE who is strong enough to move inside on occasion? A trade down is always possible as I believe teams will move up for a couple of guys in this draft. If Miami trades down a few spots someone like Phillips for the secondary would make sense. Who would you most want to see Miami take?

the dolphins depress me
11-05-2007, 12:22 PM
jake long in a trade down with an additional pick in round 2

Joeyjr09
11-05-2007, 12:56 PM
Trade down with a team in the 8-10 range. Traded value chart will net us an extra 1st in 2009, plus a 2nd and 3rd in 2008. With those picks we go.

1st- Kenny Phillips, FS
2nd- Ryan Clady, OT
2nd- DeJuan Tribble, CB
2nd- Dre Moore, DT
3rd- BJ Raji, NT
3rd- Ben Moffitt, LB
4th- Marcus Monk, WR
6th- Chester Adams, OG
7th- De'Cody Fagg, WR

SF Dolphin Fan
11-05-2007, 06:31 PM
Trade down with a team in the 8-10 range. Traded value chart will net us an extra 1st in 2009, plus a 2nd and 3rd in 2008. With those picks we go.

1st- Kenny Phillips, FS
2nd- Ryan Clady, OT
2nd- DeJuan Tribble, CB
2nd- Dre Moore, DT
3rd- BJ Raji, NT
3rd- Ben Moffitt, LB
4th- Marcus Monk, WR
6th- Chester Adams, OG
7th- De'Cody Fagg, WR

That would be an awesome draft addressing a lot of needs. What's your scouting report on Tribble? I haven't seen him or heard too much about him.

Joeyjr09
11-05-2007, 07:36 PM
That would be an awesome draft addressing a lot of needs. What's your scouting report on Tribble? I haven't seen him or heard too much about him.

Alot of people have him going in the top 25 picks as of now. I think when it's all said and done, he'll go mid second due to lack of size

LionSmack
11-05-2007, 07:42 PM
What if Miami couldn't trade down? it isn't easy to do, as evidenced by the Lions last year who had one of the best pieces of trade bait ever. Not to say it's impossible but let's for a moment say they don't get it done. What then?

I don't consider Jake Long worthy of first overall. Probably none of the QB's are either, even IF Miami would do that a year after taking Beck.

Glenn Dorsey then? Chris Long? Or do they reach?

brat316
11-05-2007, 07:53 PM
I would say Long, 1st overall. Could he be the next Taylor in that 3-4. 1st overall picks are Qbs most of the time, but a DE not a bad pick either, trading down from 1st overall is probably the hardest thing to do. Look what the Saints did to get Ricky.

Joeyjr09
11-05-2007, 09:03 PM
I would say Long, 1st overall. Could he be the next Taylor in that 3-4. 1st overall picks are Qbs most of the time, but a DE not a bad pick either, trading down from 1st overall is probably the hardest thing to do. Look what the Saints did to get Ricky.

Are you a Dolphins fan? They way you compare Long to Taylor makes me think you don't watch either very much. Long is a classic 3-4 DE. Think Richard Seymour or Chris Canty. Taylor is a 3-4DE/OLB and is the ideal 4-3 DE. Calais Campbell is more like Taylor then Long is. They aren't even on the same realm as each other when comparing style of play. The pick would definately be Dorsey.

SF Dolphin Fan
11-05-2007, 10:24 PM
Are you a Dolphins fan? They way you compare Long to Taylor makes me think you don't watch either very much. Long is a classic 3-4 DE. Think Richard Seymour or Chris Canty. Taylor is a 3-4DE/OLB and is the ideal 4-3 DE. Calais Campbell is more like Taylor then Long is. They aren't even on the same realm as each other when comparing style of play. The pick would definately be Dorsey.

The question with Dorsey is whether or not he would be an ideal fit for this defense. Of course, the whole defensive scheme could change so you never know.

brat316
11-06-2007, 12:10 AM
Why not Long, he plays all over the field he has played 8 diffrent positions at Virgina.

Joeyjr09
11-06-2007, 07:18 AM
The question with Dorsey is whether or not he would be an ideal fit for this defense. Of course, the whole defensive scheme could change so you never know.

Obviously you are one of the few on here that haven't seen my views on how we should use Dorsey. Here it goes again, His normal set up would be at the DT position next to Soliai or whoever we have at NT. He would basically play the Vonnie Holliday role since Vonnie was playing awful before the injury. This lets us move Vonnie outside to DE where our depth has been bad. Rod Wright would be Dorsey's primary backup. From that DT spot Dorsey would upgrade the run defense as well as have the freedom to use his pass rush skills. Then on certain running downs, we could shift Dorsey outside to DE and move JT to OLB and that will upgrade our run D as Dorsey could do a terrific job anchoring outside. Once in a blue moon on passing downs, we could move Dorsey to NT with JT and Roth outside and that will allow us to get pass rush from all 3 spots on the DL. Dorsey would be a guy that we could move all over the DL because he has so many aspects of his game that he is great at. It gives offenses more to think about which is what our defense has been lacking this season. We haven't had a single player that makes defenses think, we just line up and do the same thing over and over because we don't have the talent to move guys around and keep offenses guessing as to what ew are gonna hit them with. Dorsey can help change that.

Joeyjr09
11-06-2007, 07:20 AM
Why not Long, he plays all over the field he has played 8 diffrent positions at Virgina.

Virginia is a college. In the NFL they are gonna put him at DE and leave him there. Read any scouting report. They all say Long gonna be a 3-4 DE, no questions asked.

draftguru151
11-06-2007, 09:47 AM
Long definitely isn't just a 3-4 DE no questions ask. His best spot would be as a 4-3 DE, and Toonster actually brought up a good point in that he'd likely be better off to drop a little more weight and be a 3-4 OLB than gain weight and be a 3-4 DE.

As far as your plan with Dorsey, I think you're assuming a bit too much that he'd be worth the first over all pick in those rolls. Right now I'd lead Dorsey just for the fact that he is a better player than Long. But Dorsey's fit as a 3-4 DE really isn't worth the #1 overall pick. If we run a 4-3 all the time and abandon the 3-4 then Dorsey would be worth the pick, but he just isn't a 3-4 DE. He doesn't have the size and that isn't his style of play. While Long isn't the type of player that Dorsey is he is absolutely dominant in the run game and while he isn't the pass blocker Thomas or Ferguson were coming out but he can get the job done at LT. There are a lot of good options for DT in the 2nd that aren't on Dorsey's level but they fit the defense just as well if not better and give us just as much flexibility as your plan would.

Say we take Long, Carey is moved back to RT, this allows us to either cut LJ Shelton or move him inside and gives us a OL of Long, Shelton/whoever, Satele, Hadnot (FA but hopefully we bring him back, he's rebounded well after an awful preseason), Carey. Maybe even have Alabi inside at OG or if we have enough faith in him but Carey at LG and have Alabi at RT.

Then in the 2nd we can look at DT. Dre Moore, Kentwan Balmer and DeMario Pressley are all guys that fit in the DT/3-4 DE role. Moore might even be able to play NT. Long/Moore looks a lot better than Dorsey/Otah to me.

Obviously a lot can change from now until April, but at this point I'd lean slightly towards Long.

SF Dolphin Fan
11-06-2007, 12:10 PM
What if Miami couldn't trade down? it isn't easy to do, as evidenced by the Lions last year who had one of the best pieces of trade bait ever. Not to say it's impossible but let's for a moment say they don't get it done. What then?

I don't consider Jake Long worthy of first overall. Probably none of the QB's are either, even IF Miami would do that a year after taking Beck.

Glenn Dorsey then? Chris Long? Or do they reach?

That's possible, but I really think teams will trade up for McFadden and maybe Ryan or Brohm depending on how they finish their seasons.

SF Dolphin Fan
11-06-2007, 12:14 PM
What about McFadden? Just throwing it out there. BTW I love Ronnie Brown and believe he is one of the best backs in the game if he is completely healthy. But McFadden may be, by far, the best player available in this draft. I know it's unlikely and I'm not advocating it, but it should definitely be part of the discussion if Miami ends up with the top pick.

brat316
11-06-2007, 02:18 PM
maybe for trade bait like what the Chargers did with Vick and LT

Joeyjr09
11-06-2007, 05:10 PM
Long definitely isn't just a 3-4 DE no questions ask. His best spot would be as a 4-3 DE, and Toonster actually brought up a good point in that he'd likely be better off to drop a little more weight and be a 3-4 OLB than gain weight and be a 3-4 DE.

As far as your plan with Dorsey, I think you're assuming a bit too much that he'd be worth the first over all pick in those rolls. Right now I'd lead Dorsey just for the fact that he is a better player than Long. But Dorsey's fit as a 3-4 DE really isn't worth the #1 overall pick. If we run a 4-3 all the time and abandon the 3-4 then Dorsey would be worth the pick, but he just isn't a 3-4 DE. He doesn't have the size and that isn't his style of play. While Long isn't the type of player that Dorsey is he is absolutely dominant in the run game and while he isn't the pass blocker Thomas or Ferguson were coming out but he can get the job done at LT. There are a lot of good options for DT in the 2nd that aren't on Dorsey's level but they fit the defense just as well if not better and give us just as much flexibility as your plan would.

Say we take Long, Carey is moved back to RT, this allows us to either cut LJ Shelton or move him inside and gives us a OL of Long, Shelton/whoever, Satele, Hadnot (FA but hopefully we bring him back, he's rebounded well after an awful preseason), Carey. Maybe even have Alabi inside at OG or if we have enough faith in him but Carey at LG and have Alabi at RT.

Then in the 2nd we can look at DT. Dre Moore, Kentwan Balmer and DeMario Pressley are all guys that fit in the DT/3-4 DE role. Moore might even be able to play NT. Long/Moore looks a lot better than Dorsey/Otah to me.

Obviously a lot can change from now until April, but at this point I'd lean slightly towards Long.


I have to completely disagree with you on Long. You say he'd have to drop a little more weight to be a OLB then to gain weight and be a 3-4 DE. You do know Long weighs 285 lbs right? To find a man his size with his ability to get after the QB is rare and there's tons of 3-4 teams and are going to be licking their cops to get him have him bulk up and extra 7-8 pounds and put him at DE. He has tons more value that way then dropping 15 pounds and learning a whole new position outside where he might not have the speed to handle that role. Long ends up a DE for sure in my eyes whether it be in a 4-3 or 3-4 but I'm definately thinking teams in the 3-4 are gonna wanna nap him because guys his size with his skill set just don't come around often. I'd love to have him if we traded down into the 5-8 range.

Have to disagree on Jake Long as well. We have way, way too many other needs then to be wasting a number 1 overall pick on what will basically be a RT playing out of position.

With the lack of NTs in this draft, I think Dre Moore gets taken as a potential NT.


Also I'm sorry but I think your greatly exaggrating the Dorsey/Otah and Long/Moore or Pressley comparision. This is the deepest draft for OTs in years It might be the deepest position in the entire draft. No way does Otah go with the 1st pick of the 2nd round. With Long, Baker, Cherilus, Clady, Williams, Hills, all being much better then Otah, one will most liekly be there for our pick and all will be good pros. I'm sorry but a combo of Dorsey and Clady or Williams holds alot more weight in my eyes then a combo of Long and Moore of Pressley. Clady is more of a pure LT that still move the OL aroudn the way you have planned and yet we still get the better player and fill a bigger need for defense with our number 1 overall.

SF Dolphin, unless the Dolphins are 100 percent sure that they can deal Ronnie for a 1st round pick and that McFadden will be the next Barry Sanders, there's no way we should take him. If he's there, we need to trade down with a team like Dallas who are said to be in love with him already.

thebow305
11-06-2007, 05:26 PM
I have to completely disagree with you on Long. You say he'd have to drop a little more weight to be a OLB then to gain weight and be a 3-4 DE. You do know Long weighs 285 lbs right? To find a man his size with his ability to get after the QB is rare and there's tons of 3-4 teams and are going to be licking their cops to get him have him bulk up and extra 7-8 pounds and put him at DE. He has tons more value that way then dropping 15 pounds and learning a whole new position outside where he might not have the speed to handle that role. Long ends up a DE for sure in my eyes whether it be in a 4-3 or 3-4 but I'm definately thinking teams in the 3-4 are gonna wanna nap him because guys his size with his skill set just don't come around often. I'd love to have him if we traded down into the 5-8 range.

Have to disagree on Jake Long as well. We have way, way too many other needs then to be wasting a number 1 overall pick on what will basically be a RT playing out of position.

With the lack of NTs in this draft, I think Dre Moore gets taken as a potential NT.


Also I'm sorry but I think your greatly exaggrating the Dorsey/Otah and Long/Moore or Pressley comparision. This is the deepest draft for OTs in years It might be the deepest position in the entire draft. No way does Otah go with the 1st pick of the 2nd round. With Long, Baker, Cherilus, Clady, Williams, Hills, all being much better then Otah, one will most liekly be there for our pick and all will be good pros. I'm sorry but a combo of Dorsey and Clady or Williams holds alot more weight in my eyes then a combo of Long and Moore of Pressley. Clady is more of a pure LT that still move the OL aroudn the way you have planned and yet we still get the better player and fill a bigger need for defense with our number 1 overall.

SF Dolphin, unless the Dolphins are 100 percent sure that they can deal Ronnie for a 1st round pick and that McFadden will be the next Barry Sanders, there's no way we should take him. If he's there, we need to trade down with a team like Dallas who are said to be in love with him already.


For once, I agree with everything you said.... especially about Chris Long.

I know you guys don't agree with me on this one, but if for some chance the Rams take Dorsey and we are stuck at number 2, I think the combo of an elite pass rusher like Calais there and someone Dre Moore at the top of the second and someone like Chris Williams at the bottom of the second would bode very well for us in the future of our team. Dorsey is not a great fit for us anyway and Long should definiately not be the pick, so unless a trade is made, which I am dying for, I just pray that our draft pans out that way!

thebow305
11-06-2007, 05:29 PM
Trade down with a team in the 8-10 range. Traded value chart will net us an extra 1st in 2009, plus a 2nd and 3rd in 2008. With those picks we go.

1st- Kenny Phillips, FS
2nd- Ryan Clady, OT
2nd- DeJuan Tribble, CB
2nd- Dre Moore, DT
3rd- BJ Raji, NT
3rd- Ben Moffitt, LB
4th- Marcus Monk, WR
6th- Chester Adams, OG
7th- De'Cody Fagg, WR

I would be absolutely ecstatic with that!

draftguru151
11-06-2007, 05:30 PM
You do know Long is very likely 265 right?

If Clady comes out he'll be a top 15 pick. Hills is probably too light to play in our system and should go in the 1st. Williams would get consideration there too but Otah is better than him regardless. Cherilus is a RT all the way and an overrated one at that. Long isn't going to be an Orlando Pace pass blocker but he can be a very good LT. OT is very deep but the guys that fit for us at LT is thin. Maybe Loadholt comes out but he likely is gone before the 2nd rounder.

Dorsey is a much worse fit in a 3-4 than Long is at LT, and it isn't really close. Dorsey is an amazing player, in a 4-3 he is the #1 guy in the draft to me, but in a 3-4 his value is a bit lower. The other DTs I mentioned are good fits whereas the OTs in the 2nd aren't as good of fits.

Like I said it's early, and everything can change, but right now I don't see how DT/OT is going to be better than OT/DT.

draftguru151
11-06-2007, 05:33 PM
For once, I agree with everything you said.... especially about Chris Long.

I know you guys don't agree with me on this one, but if for some chance the Rams take Dorsey and we are stuck at number 2, I think the combo of an elite pass rusher like Calais there and someone Dre Moore at the top of the second and someone like Chris Williams at the bottom of the second would bode very well for us in the future of our team. Dorsey is not a great fit for us anyway and Long should definiately not be the pick, so unless a trade is made, which I am dying for, I just pray that our draft pans out that way!

When Calais Campbell becomes an elite pass rusher let me know. Or when he has any type of fit in our defense. Or when he has the value of where we'll be picking.

Joeyjr09
11-06-2007, 05:44 PM
You do know Long is very likely 265 right?

If Clady comes out he'll be a top 15 pick. Hills is probably too light to play in our system and should go in the 1st. Williams would get consideration there too but Otah is better than him regardless. Cherilus is a RT all the way and an overrated one at that. Long isn't going to be an Orlando Pace pass blocker but he can be a very good LT. OT is very deep but the guys that fit for us at LT is thin. Maybe Loadholt comes out but he likely is gone before the 2nd rounder.

Dorsey is a much worse fit in a 3-4 than Long is at LT, and it isn't really close. Dorsey is an amazing player, in a 4-3 he is the #1 guy in the draft to me, but in a 3-4 his value is a bit lower. The other DTs I mentioned are good fits whereas the OTs in the 2nd aren't as good of fits.

Like I said it's early, and everything can change, but right now I don't see how DT/OT is going to be better than OT/DT.

I checked numerous different sites for Longs weight for an accurate measure before posting. Most places had him listed at 285 or more including the Virginia team site. The lightest I saw him listed is 275. How on earth does that lead you to conclude that he is very likely 265?

I don't see Clady as a top 15 pick at all. He's low 1st, early 2nd. Think Joe Staley. Long and Baker are definately ahead of him. Hills has freakish potential that could make him jump pretty high. Cherilus right now seems to be the consensus number 3 OT despite what you think about him. Clady is number 4 at best at this point and Clady could easily slip to our pick a the top of the 2nd. If Loadholt comes out, be careful cause he could slide even more.

Let me get this. You don't wanna take Dorsey because he is a bad fit for us but your willing to take other players who fit similarly in rd2. Then you wanna take Long at number 1 overall even tho you basically acknowledge that he isn't the best fit at RT but you wanna pass on OTs in RD2 because they are good fits? Were exactly is the logic in this? Either way you spin it we get a OT that isn't an ideal fit and a DT that isn't an ideal fit. Why not take the package with more talent and upside in Dorsey/Clady then Long/Pressley?

I just don't see the logic in picking player because one is a slightly better fit then the other. If the players don't fit either trade down or take the best talent of the group at the biggest need and be done with it. I think we can all agree Dorsey is the best talent and plays the biggest need position.

Joeyjr09
11-06-2007, 05:45 PM
bow, Calais is a waste for our team. He is lazy, he has had a terrible year and there's talk now he might not come out because he knows how bad he's played and that his stock is sh*t. We don't have any room on our team for lazy underachievers and that's what Campbell is. I love the guy but the bust factor on him is huge and the Dolphins have no more room for busts and he doesn't fit well for us at all.

draftguru151
11-06-2007, 08:05 PM
I checked numerous different sites for Longs weight for an accurate measure before posting. Most places had him listed at 285 or more including the Virginia team site. The lightest I saw him listed is 275. How on earth does that lead you to conclude that he is very likely 265?

I don't see Clady as a top 15 pick at all. He's low 1st, early 2nd. Think Joe Staley. Long and Baker are definately ahead of him. Hills has freakish potential that could make him jump pretty high. Cherilus right now seems to be the consensus number 3 OT despite what you think about him. Clady is number 4 at best at this point and Clady could easily slip to our pick a the top of the 2nd. If Loadholt comes out, be careful cause he could slide even more.

Let me get this. You don't wanna take Dorsey because he is a bad fit for us but your willing to take other players who fit similarly in rd2. Then you wanna take Long at number 1 overall even tho you basically acknowledge that he isn't the best fit at RT but you wanna pass on OTs in RD2 because they are good fits? Were exactly is the logic in this? Either way you spin it we get a OT that isn't an ideal fit and a DT that isn't an ideal fit. Why not take the package with more talent and upside in Dorsey/Clady then Long/Pressley?

I just don't see the logic in picking player because one is a slightly better fit then the other. If the players don't fit either trade down or take the best talent of the group at the biggest need and be done with it. I think we can all agree Dorsey is the best talent and plays the biggest need position.

Long is listed at 280 at most places but there are a lot of rumors that he is much closer to 260 than 280. ESPN also lists him at 266. If Long is 280 then he could play DE in a 3-4, but since he is very likely 265 he has no place in the 3-4 at DE.

Clady has as much potential as any OT in the draft and I certainly wouldn't rule out him being the #1 OT in this class. Gosder is the #3 guy right now because most people haven't updated the last 2 weeks. He's got completely destroyed 2 weeks in a row and is pretty much proving he can't play LT AT ALL.

I think you need to reread what I wrote because I was saying the complete opposite of what you're talking about.

Geo
11-06-2007, 08:23 PM
If I may temporarily put myself in the General Manager's fancy chair of the Miami Dolphins franchise ...

My Big Board has defensive end Chris Long and defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey at the top. Long has an elite motor, like Terrell Suggs and Dwight Freeney of years past, that I can't pass up. Dorsey is the best tackle prospect since future Hall of Famer Warren Sapp imo. I love both guys, I don't question their heart and desire to play football by the slightest shred and that's who I want to invest millions in and who I want associated with my franchise for over ten years.

Both guys would be better suited in a 4-3, but the whole purpose of the Draft is to get talent to better my team, and adding either of these guys to the roster helps make the Dolphins a much better team, whether the defense is a 3-4 or 4-3. I think each player can play in both, quite honestly, though the 4-3 is admittedly favored.

My stud franchise pass-rusher Jason Taylor is 35 or so years old, I believe, and he's years younger than my aging nose tackle who can't play a full game's worth of snaps. Adding either Long or Dorsey makes me ecstatic, I have a new pillar to help build my franchise up to where it should be.

Dom Capers isn't some young pup, he's an experienced coach in this league who just wants the best players possible to field the best defense possible. I'm more than confident in his ability to ulitize these players, maybe devising a gameplan that features the 4-3 almost or as prominently as the 3-4.

Also, as the general manager, I'm also considering a possible defensive change to a Tampa 2 defense in the somewhat near future, given the influx of young defensive players that the franchise will be experiencing. If so, either Long or Dorsey are absolutely perfect pieces to build around in that scenario.

... and back to reality.

Joeyjr09
11-07-2007, 08:37 AM
Long is listed at 280 at most places but there are a lot of rumors that he is much closer to 260 than 280. ESPN also lists him at 266. If Long is 280 then he could play DE in a 3-4, but since he is very likely 265 he has no place in the 3-4 at DE.

Clady has as much potential as any OT in the draft and I certainly wouldn't rule out him being the #1 OT in this class. Gosder is the #3 guy right now because most people haven't updated the last 2 weeks. He's got completely destroyed 2 weeks in a row and is pretty much proving he can't play LT AT ALL.

I think you need to reread what I wrote because I was saying the complete opposite of what you're talking about.

I'd love to see a link to any of those rumors that say Long is closer to 260. I've never seen them anywhere. It'd be greatly appreciated. Also I don't put too much stock into ESPN player profiles. Chances are the stats they have on Long are from his early years when he was smaller and younger and their information on the profiles tend to be off on alot of guys because they have such a wide range of sports and players that they cover as opposed to a site that is just draft or college based and only focuses on guys like Long.

While Clady does have a ton of potential, it still remains that this is an extremely deep draft for OTs. Clady could go in the mid 1st, or slide all the way to mid 2nd. Not only is it possible but it's likely that 3 guys out of the group of Long, Baker, Cherilus, Williams, Hills, Loadholt could go ahead of him. Besides the point being that there is 6 to 7 OT that are all going to be good lineman in this league chances are that at least two or three of them drop to our pick in beginning of round 2 where we will still get to choose which guy we like best.

I also don't see how I didn't understand what you said. Basically in a nutshell you said a combo of say Jake Long and Dre Moore would fit us better then a combo of Glenn Dorsey and Chris Williams, correct?

Finsfan79
11-07-2007, 10:52 AM
When Calais Campbell becomes an elite pass rusher let me know. Or when he has any type of fit in our defense. Or when he has the value of where we'll be picking.

agreed




I am personally for a trade back as the first option with Mcfadden showing his skills and if he continues to impress someone will want him. Specially after Peterson's numbers this year. Personally I dont care if we are trading with the Jets or atlanta or whomever. But dropping back a few spots is the best option.


My hope is we go back to the 4-3 defense, pluck up Dorsey and Moore. Put them into the middle while in the late 2nd swipe a CB/S depth there. We can address a guard in the 3rd or 4th, and go BPA from there. I would not mind a pick of a MLB either but I feel that our defensive players would better fit the 4-3 currently then the 3-4 hybrid we have been running.

Finsfan79
11-07-2007, 10:54 AM
If I may temporarily put myself in the General Manager's fancy chair of the Miami Dolphins franchise ...

My Big Board has defensive end Chris Long and defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey at the top. Long has an elite motor, like Terrell Suggs and Dwight Freeney of years past, that I can't pass up. Dorsey is the best tackle prospect since future Hall of Famer Warren Sapp imo. I love both guys, I don't question their heart and desire to play football by the slightest shred and that's who I want to invest millions in and who I want associated with my franchise for over ten years.

Both guys would be better suited in a 4-3, but the whole purpose of the Draft is to get talent to better my team, and adding either of these guys to the roster helps make the Dolphins a much better team, whether the defense is a 3-4 or 4-3. I think each player can play in both, quite honestly, though the 4-3 is admittedly favored.

My stud franchise pass-rusher Jason Taylor is 35 or so years old, I believe, and he's years younger than my aging nose tackle who can't play a full game's worth of snaps. Adding either Long or Dorsey makes me ecstatic, I have a new pillar to help build my franchise up to where it should be.

Dom Capers isn't some young pup, he's an experienced coach in this league who just wants the best players possible to field the best defense possible. I'm more than confident in his ability to ulitize these players, maybe devising a gameplan that features the 4-3 almost or as prominently as the 3-4.

Also, as the general manager, I'm also considering a possible defensive change to a Tampa 2 defense in the somewhat near future, given the influx of young defensive players that the franchise will be experiencing. If so, either Long or Dorsey are absolutely perfect pieces to build around in that scenario.

... and back to reality.


pretty much a mirror of my own thoughts Geo, I like it :)

SF Dolphin Fan
11-07-2007, 12:15 PM
If I may temporarily put myself in the General Manager's fancy chair of the Miami Dolphins franchise ...

My Big Board has defensive end Chris Long and defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey at the top. Long has an elite motor, like Terrell Suggs and Dwight Freeney of years past, that I can't pass up. Dorsey is the best tackle prospect since future Hall of Famer Warren Sapp imo. I love both guys, I don't question their heart and desire to play football by the slightest shred and that's who I want to invest millions in and who I want associated with my franchise for over ten years.

Both guys would be better suited in a 4-3, but the whole purpose of the Draft is to get talent to better my team, and adding either of these guys to the roster helps make the Dolphins a much better team, whether the defense is a 3-4 or 4-3. I think each player can play in both, quite honestly, though the 4-3 is admittedly favored.

My stud franchise pass-rusher Jason Taylor is 35 or so years old, I believe, and he's years younger than my aging nose tackle who can't play a full game's worth of snaps. Adding either Long or Dorsey makes me ecstatic, I have a new pillar to help build my franchise up to where it should be.

Dom Capers isn't some young pup, he's an experienced coach in this league who just wants the best players possible to field the best defense possible. I'm more than confident in his ability to ulitize these players, maybe devising a gameplan that features the 4-3 almost or as prominently as the 3-4.

Also, as the general manager, I'm also considering a possible defensive change to a Tampa 2 defense in the somewhat near future, given the influx of young defensive players that the franchise will be experiencing. If so, either Long or Dorsey are absolutely perfect pieces to build around in that scenario.

... and back to reality.

That makes a lot of sense. I know Cameron is an offensive guy, but the needs on defense are so glaring I can't see how they can be ignored any longer. Chris Long would be my first choice, based on heart, leadership and ability. That said, a trade down could be enticing as I believe teams will try hard to move up to draft McFadden.

draftguru151
11-07-2007, 04:08 PM
I'd love to see a link to any of those rumors that say Long is closer to 260. I've never seen them anywhere. It'd be greatly appreciated. Also I don't put too much stock into ESPN player profiles. Chances are the stats they have on Long are from his early years when he was smaller and younger and their information on the profiles tend to be off on alot of guys because they have such a wide range of sports and players that they cover as opposed to a site that is just draft or college based and only focuses on guys like Long.

While Clady does have a ton of potential, it still remains that this is an extremely deep draft for OTs. Clady could go in the mid 1st, or slide all the way to mid 2nd. Not only is it possible but it's likely that 3 guys out of the group of Long, Baker, Cherilus, Williams, Hills, Loadholt could go ahead of him. Besides the point being that there is 6 to 7 OT that are all going to be good lineman in this league chances are that at least two or three of them drop to our pick in beginning of round 2 where we will still get to choose which guy we like best.

I also don't see how I didn't understand what you said. Basically in a nutshell you said a combo of say Jake Long and Dre Moore would fit us better then a combo of Glenn Dorsey and Chris Williams, correct?

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13540

There are a few mentions of him at 260, one by Toonster, rumors don't get any more credible than that. If you want some more look at almost any thread mentioning him in the draft forum. And it's scouts inc. listing him at 266, it is there job.

I already said OT was deep, but the players that can fit at LT for us isn't, Long fits, Clady fits, Otah fits, and maybe Loadholt. What exactly are you basing Clady going below those people on? Anyone could slide, but Clady deserves to be at worst a top 20 pick. If Clady comes out and falls to our 2nd rounder then it may change things, but for him to fall something would have to happen and him being our LT comes into doubt.

Yes that summary is what I said, but what you said before was incorrect.

draftguru151
11-07-2007, 04:17 PM
My hope is we go back to the 4-3 defense, pluck up Dorsey and Moore. Put them into the middle while in the late 2nd swipe a CB/S depth there. We can address a guard in the 3rd or 4th, and go BPA from there. I would not mind a pick of a MLB either but I feel that our defensive players would better fit the 4-3 currently then the 3-4 hybrid we have been running.

That's the thing about the hybrid, if we have the players for it, it's a great system to have, but to find those guys is difficult and really shrinks the lists of guys we can take. If we go to the 4-3, we can take Dorsey or a penetrating style DT inside or we can take a guy who doesn't fit in a 3-4 inside. We can take a WLB or MLB and not worry about having to get a guy who can play in a 3-4 and just get the best player at those positions.

The only worry I have is Joey Porter, are we really going to put him as a LB in a 4-3? We can't get rid of him already, and while we could mold the defense a bit to hide his weaknesses it still creates a problem for a few years. I still don't think it should prevent the change though.

Joeyjr09
11-07-2007, 06:35 PM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13540

There are a few mentions of him at 260, one by Toonster, rumors don't get any more credible than that. If you want some more look at almost any thread mentioning him in the draft forum. And it's scouts inc. listing him at 266, it is there job.

I already said OT was deep, but the players that can fit at LT for us isn't, Long fits, Clady fits, Otah fits, and maybe Loadholt. What exactly are you basing Clady going below those people on? Anyone could slide, but Clady deserves to be at worst a top 20 pick. If Clady comes out and falls to our 2nd rounder then it may change things, but for him to fall something would have to happen and him being our LT comes into doubt.

Yes that summary is what I said, but what you said before was incorrect.

I was hoping to get a link from people on other sites with actual professional. Not a link to the same message board we are on with posters I talk to every day. They are what I call a reliable source and I'm willing to bet that none of these guys have ever even been near one of these guys when they were measured and weighed. Anyways, Long plays as a 3-4 DE right now. I know it's college but he plays in a pretty solid ACC conference and faces what is going to be a top level NFL talent someday. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say the guy can put on a few pounds and keep the position he has been great at his entire life then to drop weight and move to a OLB spot were he may or may not blossom into the talent people think he is.

You keep talking about what LT's fit us. I don't think we are looking LT. I think if we draft one number 1 overall then yes he will play LT because drafting a number 1 overall RT is crazy. But if we draft in round 2, getting a RT would make more sense as Carey has been plenty solid for us and Shelton would move inside where he could really turn into one of the top guards in the NFL. He was flat out amazing the time he spent at RG last season.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't agree with Dorsey/Williams being any worse of a fit for us then Long/Moore. Btw. Moore could easily go top 20 as well.

Grig
11-08-2007, 07:46 PM
Okay, call me absolutely crazy, but..

Could we possibly look at Malcolm Jenkins?

I asked about it in another topic, but didn't get an answer. I really don't know how good he is, but from everything I've been hearing, he's a stellar CB prospect. I wouldn't mind Dorsey at all, but could Jenkins be a possibility?

I realize he might not be the best "value", but could he be the best player for us?

brat316
11-08-2007, 07:47 PM
Cb number 1 overall that is crazy. Jenkins i think could make his case for top 10.

draftguru151
11-08-2007, 08:17 PM
#1 or 2, at this point, no. Jenkins is a great prospect, and if we were in the 3-5 range I'd consider it as an option, but he doesn't have top 2 value.

Finsfan79
11-09-2007, 08:57 AM
That's the thing about the hybrid, if we have the players for it, it's a great system to have, but to find those guys is difficult and really shrinks the lists of guys we can take. If we go to the 4-3, we can take Dorsey or a penetrating style DT inside or we can take a guy who doesn't fit in a 3-4 inside. We can take a WLB or MLB and not worry about having to get a guy who can play in a 3-4 and just get the best player at those positions.

The only worry I have is Joey Porter, are we really going to put him as a LB in a 4-3? We can't get rid of him already, and while we could mold the defense a bit to hide his weaknesses it still creates a problem for a few years. I still don't think it should prevent the change though.

I dont know what to do with him either he is too small for a 4-3 DE I think but a 4-3 OLB would be even worse, we have 1 more year before we can cut him. But I cant use him as a reason to base our whole defense in a system we cant currently run? You know?

Unless our first 3 picks are improving that Dline (NT, DE, and another upgrade at LB) I dont see it.

His cap hit being cut after next years season drops a lot, but this upcoming year we are stuck with the SoB.

But, I still believe in bringing back the 4-3 and taking BPA reguardless of position (except QB if beck shows he can actually play). Heck I dont mind them drafting Mcfadden and trading Ronnie even (if they can get good value like perhaps the cowboys late 1st and a pick). 3 years in a row and 3 years injured is a concern for me and I think our offensive system this year would fit McFadden well too.

That said I feel there are more holes to not take the luxery of Mcfadden but I want BPA and in a draft without many "stars" you take the stars you can find.

keylime_5
11-09-2007, 09:00 AM
Considering Jake Long, Sam Baker, Gosder Cherilus, and Ryan Clady are all first round picks who will be in this draft, I highly doubt any team in their right mind is gonna trade up to #1 to pick Jake Long. Highly, highly doubt it. Glenn Dorsey doesn't fit the current Dolphins scheme, but that will probably change after this year once they can Dom Capers. My money is on Miami sticking with the top pick and taking Jake Long. Trade downs never happen #1 overall unless it's a freak thing like SD/ATL for Vick or NYG/SD for Manning the crybaby who didn't want to go to san diego.

There's only 3 guys worthy of #1 overall right now, McFadden, J.Long, and Dorsey. C.Long and the QBs and Campbell are close though.

SF Dolphin Fan
11-09-2007, 04:12 PM
I dont know what to do with him either he is too small for a 4-3 DE I think but a 4-3 OLB would be even worse, we have 1 more year before we can cut him. But I cant use him as a reason to base our whole defense in a system we cant currently run? You know?

Unless our first 3 picks are improving that Dline (NT, DE, and another upgrade at LB) I dont see it.

His cap hit being cut after next years season drops a lot, but this upcoming year we are stuck with the SoB.

But, I still believe in bringing back the 4-3 and taking BPA reguardless of position (except QB if beck shows he can actually play). Heck I dont mind them drafting Mcfadden and trading Ronnie even (if they can get good value like perhaps the cowboys late 1st and a pick). 3 years in a row and 3 years injured is a concern for me and I think our offensive system this year would fit McFadden well too.

That said I feel there are more holes to not take the luxery of Mcfadden but I want BPA and in a draft without many "stars" you take the stars you can find.

That's why I think McFadden is a possibility.

Scott Wright
11-13-2007, 03:56 AM
I wouldn't count on being able to trade down. McFadden will likely be the only guy available who teams would even consider paying to move up for and who is going to want to give up valuable picks for the right to give out the most guaranteed money in the history of the league? To a running back no less.

This is an awful year for the Dolphins to have the #1 pick (Think San Fran in '05) and since they don't need D-Mac it will come down to either Dorsey or Long and if I were them I'd go with the offensive tackle.

SF Dolphin Fan
11-13-2007, 03:42 PM
I wouldn't count on being able to trade down. McFadden will likely be the only guy available who teams would even consider paying to move up for and who is going to want to give up valuable picks for the right to give out the most guaranteed money in the history of the league? To a running back no less.

This is an awful year for the Dolphins to have the #1 pick (Think San Fran in '05) and since they don't need D-Mac it will come down to either Dorsey or Long and if I were them I'd go with the offensive tackle.

Jake Long wouldn't be a bad pick, but I like Chris Long better. My reason is I think you can get a good RT prospect in the 2nd round, but I don't see a defensive end of Long's caliber being available at that point. Am I wrong? I do think Jake Long could play LT and Miami definitely needs help on the line. Then again, the Dolphins really need help in a lot of areas (secondary, linebacker, another receiver, defensive line).

Geo
11-13-2007, 04:50 PM
In a toss-up with equal BPAs, the nod goes to the pass-rusher, I feel.

thebow305
11-13-2007, 06:35 PM
We need help on defense much more than offense. Bottom Line.

Our offensive line has been the most impressive unit on our team thus far in the season. As of right now, either a trade down, or the best Defensive Player on the board will be the pick, I can almost guarantee it.

619
11-13-2007, 06:38 PM
We need help on defense much more than offense. Bottom Line.

Our offensive line has been the most impressive unit on our team thus far in the season. As of right now, either a trade down, or the best Defensive Player on the board will be the pick, I can almost guarantee it.

glenn dorsey or i hope they go with the hometown boy calais campbell

thebow305
11-13-2007, 11:49 PM
glenn dorsey or i hope they go with the hometown boy calais campbell

I love where your head's at!

SF Dolphin Fan
11-14-2007, 10:52 AM
glenn dorsey or i hope they go with the hometown boy calais campbell

Campbell scares me, although he certainly could be a Jevon Kearse type of guy. I know there never really is a sure thing, but I think Chris Long is a lot closer to being that.

Finsfan79
11-14-2007, 12:51 PM
I wouldn't count on being able to trade down. McFadden will likely be the only guy available who teams would even consider paying to move up for and who is going to want to give up valuable picks for the right to give out the most guaranteed money in the history of the league? To a running back no less.

This is an awful year for the Dolphins to have the #1 pick (Think San Fran in '05) and since they don't need D-Mac it will come down to either Dorsey or Long and if I were them I'd go with the offensive tackle.

I would need to take Dorsey there Scott as I see him as a bigger impact then a right tackle would be for us still. We can use a DE/DT in the hybrid or if we got to the 4-3 as I expect us to go back to he would be a major impact as a Defensive tackle for the next decade.

Not a sexy pick but one that fills a huge need.


I also dont think D-Mac is out of the question.

Finsfan79
11-16-2007, 09:30 AM
what do you guys feel about a trade back and plucking up James Laurinaitis to replace Zach Thomas for the long term?

draftguru151
11-16-2007, 10:07 AM
He would be awful in a 3-4. If we did trade down I'd much rather go after Malcolm Jenkins.

Joeyjr09
11-17-2007, 12:44 PM
He would be awful in a 3-4. If we did trade down I'd much rather go after Malcolm Jenkins.

Agreed. Ideally. I'd love to see us trade down into the 8-20 range and get an extra 2nd and 3rd this year as well as an extra 1st for next year. Those type of trades are few and far between tho. I would love to trade down and look at landing a Malcolm Jenkins, Kenny Phillips, or Chris Long.

Damnit. Why couldn't we get the 1st pick as year. Can you imagine having Calvin Johnson as an option instead of Darren McFadden?

Finsfan79
11-20-2007, 01:56 PM
I dont think we will be running the 3-4 next year. As I feel the 4-3 will be our defense. We ran it ala lotn the past sunday as well

Joeyjr09
11-27-2007, 01:48 AM
I dont think we will be running the 3-4 next year. As I feel the 4-3 will be our defense. We ran it ala lotn the past sunday as well

Dom Capers has pretty much come out and said he wants to run the 3-4 but with so many injuries and ineffectiveness from older players, he has been forced into putting 4 guys on the DL with 3 LBs because he need to bulk there to stop the run. Unless Capers is fired (please let us go after former Bears DC Ron Rivera) then I see us running the 3-4 next year with better players for it thru the draft and FA.

I'd love to see Capers go tho and bring in a guy like Ron Rivera. I love the cover-2 style systems that Miami used to run. Just so much easier and effective. The 3-4 runs off of mismatches and keeping the offense guessing on blitzes. The cover-2 you just line your guys up and may the best man win. If you can get the right personel for it, it's great.

23_phins_84
12-03-2007, 06:31 AM
Does anyone REALLY want to have Howie Long's son on their team?

IMO, day 1

1: Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU
2: Mike Jenkins, CB, USF
2: Jeff Otah, OT, Pittsburgh
3. Andre Caldwell, WR, Florida

Caldwell may not be there, if not, then the next best WR.

no love
12-04-2007, 04:28 PM
Mike Jenkins AND Jeff Otah dropping to the second round would be highway robbery and teams would be jumping all over them.

Not very likely to happen. Might have a better shot at a WR in the second.

thebow305
12-06-2007, 10:27 AM
Does anyone REALLY want to have Howie Long's son on their team?

IMO, day 1

1: Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU
2: Mike Jenkins, CB, USF
2: Jeff Otah, OT, Pittsburgh
3. Andre Caldwell, WR, Florida

Caldwell may not be there, if not, then the next best WR.


What is all the obsession with Andre Caldwell all of a sudden?? He hasn't done **** for the gators. The guy has never lived up to expectations and isn't even the fastest WR on the team, maybe not even second fastest. I'd be pissed if we took him in the third.

draftguru151
12-06-2007, 03:22 PM
For some reason I think the all time Gator receiver may have lived up to the expectations. And the fact that he's been tearing it up since he came back from injury may have something to do with the sudden attention. I didn't realize speed was the only thing a WR needed, and considering Percy Harvin and Murphy both have ridiculous speed, being the third fastest receiver isn't a bad thing.

bored of education
12-06-2007, 03:30 PM
1. Dorsey
2. Cherilus
2. Jordy Nelson
3. Chevis Jackson


how is that???????

thebow305
12-08-2007, 12:15 AM
For some reason I think the all time Gator receiver may have lived up to the expectations. And the fact that he's been tearing it up since he came back from injury may have something to do with the sudden attention. I didn't realize speed was the only thing a WR needed, and considering Percy Harvin and Murphy both have ridiculous speed, being the third fastest receiver isn't a bad thing.

Touche! I had no idea he was doing so well. I just have a hard time believing that any Gator reciever will make a good pro considering their most recent failures... his brother Reche, Chad Jackson (so far, i think he just needs some opportunities though), and Taylor Jacobs to name a few. I could be wrong. I think Percy will be a great player, I'm just not sold on any other gator recievers overall.

MidwayMonster31
12-08-2007, 12:36 AM
Touche! I had no idea he was doing so well. I just have a hard time believing that any Gator reciever will make a good pro considering their most recent failures... his brother Reche, Chad Jackson (so far, i think he just needs some opportunities though), and Taylor Jacobs to name a few. I could be wrong. I think Percy will be a great player, I'm just not sold on any other gator recievers overall.Percy Harvin should be responsible for killing Andre Caldwell's stock. Harvin is the best athlete on that team.
Being a Florida wide receiver, especially with Urban Meyer's spread, is almost a guaranteed failure. The reason I mention the spread is because the system uses a lot of screen passes and open-field plays. They can then use their superior athleticism to catch the pass, or run a long way with the screens. Hence, putting up great numbers, and that the scouts don't know how they got those numbers.
In the NFL, they would have to learn running routes, beating the jam, run-blocking, and going against cornerbacks with their own size and speed. That's basically re-learning how to play wide receiver and a lot of them can't make that jump.
Personally, I hate the way wide receivers are evaluated. (Nothing personal, Scott Wright) The mental part of their game is completely left out, which is why you see as many successful mid-round wide receivers than early round ones.
Cold Hard Football Facts explain them (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1361).

football122
12-08-2007, 02:52 PM
1. Trade
2. Jake Long
3. Glenn Dorsey
4. Darren McFadden

I would be happy with any of these.

finsfan4life
12-10-2007, 11:03 PM
I'll be happy with Chris Long or Glenn Dorsey. I'll be unhappy with Jake Long or a quarterback.