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BeerBaron
12-23-2008, 02:01 AM
We really need someone who can catch a football. I'm so sick of passes bouncing off of hands, chests, and facemasks. What a load of ****.

Also: everyone who says Hester looks like a #1 receiver and is worth the contract he got is doing a really good job of blinding themselves. The guy can't catch a ball unless he's open and the ball speed + placement are perfect. He has a higher average annual salary than Anquan Boldin, but can't get a grip on a ball that hits him between the eyes? If he doesn't arrive by the end of next season, he's got to be renegotiated or cut.

We desperately need a possession guy.

But not before a pass rusher. We still manage to find ways to clunk our way down the field, but seriously....anyone trying to pass on us on 3rd down is all but guaranteed to pick it up.

Thats more sickening to me

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2008, 07:54 AM
is it just me or is Orton actually pretty clutch?
i mean in both OTs he made some drives happen, even in the Falcons and Tampa game he did all he could. If Davis catches that perfect pass vs Tampa we wouldve won.

dabears10
12-23-2008, 09:46 AM
Hester's Contract is not that bad considering it's heavily incentive based. I'm still feeling real good about the win yesterday, as ugly as it was, so let's keep it going.

Smokey Joe
12-23-2008, 09:55 AM
Having a winning recored pretty much eliminates any chance of Zombie Lovie getting fired, if there was any chance to begin with.

I can't but to be not excited about this game. We played like **** for the whole game, but the Packers decided to hand us the game. If we play like we did last night vs the Texans next week, might as well chalk that one up as an L now. The Texans are a very good team at home, and I'd bet they'll have a whole lot more intensity for the game next week then we will. We didn't even have any emotion or intensity in the biggest game of our year vs. our biggest foe. I place that strictly on Lovie and him losing the players.

It's gonna be embarrassing if we some how make the playoffs. These other teams are just so much better then the Bears, it's sickening.

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2008, 10:00 AM
not the ******* cardinals who might be the first 8-8 team ever

Smokey Joe
12-23-2008, 10:06 AM
You and I both know the Cards O would tear the **** out of our D.

Also, if the Chargers win next week, which I have a feeling they might (they want revenge for that game the refs stole from them), they'd be an 8-8 team heading into the playoff.

Smokey Joe
12-23-2008, 10:13 AM
But not before a pass rusher. We still manage to find ways to clunk our way down the field, but seriously....anyone trying to pass on us on 3rd down is all but guaranteed to pick it up.

Thats more sickening to me
LOL, DE isn't going to suddenly solve our problems of suckings. We have like 6 different first round needs: OL, DE, FS, WR, NT, and you can make cases for QB, SS, SAM, and OL again.

This team has so many needs, it's sad. If we had 9 first day picks, I'd feel a whole lot better about next season, but obviously we don't. I don't know how we have a winning record right now (we aren't making the playoffs, unless we made a deal with the devil, or God just really, really, likes us), but we played like a 5-11, 6-10 team this year. It's sad how downhill this team has gone since 06-07.

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2008, 10:49 AM
You and I both know the Cards O would tear the **** out of our D.

Also, if the Chargers win next week, which I have a feeling they might (they want revenge for that game the refs stole from them), they'd be an 8-8 team heading into the playoff.
yea but cardinals play at 1 so they would be the first team ever

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2008, 10:59 AM
LOL, DE isn't going to suddenly solve our problems of suckings. We have like 6 different first round needs: OL, DE, FS, WR, NT, and you can make cases for QB, SS, SAM, and OL again.

This team has so many needs, it's sad. If we had 9 first day picks, I'd feel a whole lot better about next season, but obviously we don't. I don't know how we have a winning record right now (we aren't making the playoffs, unless we made a deal with the devil, or God just really, really, likes us), but we played like a 5-11, 6-10 team this year. It's sad how downhill this team has gone since 06-07.
thats really overreacting. Obviously OL, WR and DE are first day needs. S is a need but not that big. Payne is average at worst and is a really nice run stopper. Brown is getting old and is made out of glass but its not like we need a high end safety to compete. it is by no means a first day need. NT is a need, but Adams has played really nice and i feel like we need a late round flyer with, just a huge huge guy. QB is ridiculous, Orton does what he needs to and obviously he is not THE QB but we dont need a first round or second round QB right now. SAM is a wash, late round picks would be enough, Roach is playing fine and we dont need Briggs Urlacher and a first round pick...

Bottom line, those are needs, but seriously, First day or round needs? Not by all means. Every team has like 340090231 needs.

BeerBaron
12-23-2008, 11:43 AM
Yeah, the needs go something like (to me)

DE
..
..
..
..
OG
RT
WR
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
Everything else. Maybe FS could be a little higher, but eh.

bearsfan_51
12-23-2008, 11:59 AM
Having a winning recored pretty much eliminates any chance of Zombie Lovie getting fired, if there was any chance to begin with.

I can't but to be not excited about this game. We played like **** for the whole game, but the Packers decided to hand us the game. If we play like we did last night vs the Texans next week, might as well chalk that one up as an L now. The Texans are a very good team at home, and I'd bet they'll have a whole lot more intensity for the game next week then we will. We didn't even have any emotion or intensity in the biggest game of our year vs. our biggest foe. I place that strictly on Lovie and him losing the players.

It's gonna be embarrassing if we some how make the playoffs. These other teams are just so much better then the Bears, it's sickening.
Jesus you are depressing.

bearsfan_51
12-23-2008, 12:01 PM
We really need someone who can catch a football. I'm so sick of passes bouncing off of hands, chests, and facemasks. What a load of ****.

Also: everyone who says Hester looks like a #1 receiver and is worth the contract he got is doing a really good job of blinding themselves. The guy can't catch a ball unless he's open and the ball speed + placement are perfect. He has a higher average annual salary than Anquan Boldin, but can't get a grip on a ball that hits him between the eyes? If he doesn't arrive by the end of next season, he's got to be renegotiated or cut.

We desperately need a possession guy.
That's a ridiculous comparison. Boldin on the open market would make 5 times what he's making now.

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2008, 12:04 PM
if u look i bet Forte makes about the same Cedric Benson makes

Smokey Joe
12-23-2008, 12:11 PM
thats really overreacting. Obviously OL, WR and DE are first day needs. S is a need but not that big. Payne is average at worst and is a really nice run stopper. Brown is getting old and is made out of glass but its not like we need a high end safety to compete. it is by no means a first day need. NT is a need, but Adams has played really nice and i feel like we need a late round flyer with, just a huge huge guy. QB is ridiculous, Orton does what he needs to and obviously he is not THE QB but we dont need a first round or second round QB right now. SAM is a wash, late round picks would be enough, Roach is playing fine and we dont need Briggs Urlacher and a first round pick...

Bottom line, those are needs, but seriously, First day or round needs? Not by all means. Every team has like 340090231 needs.

FS is a huge need. If you haven't noticed, we currently do not have a FS on the team. Brown (aka glassman) and Payne are both SS, and while Brown when healthy is a decent-good player at this point in his career, Payne isn't that good. I don't know why Payne gets so much love on here. The guy is almost as bad AA in coverage. Well, at least he doesn't get run over every time he tries to make a tackle like AA did. Manning has been succeeding at a nickel role, and we've seen that he isn't a fit at FS because of his lack of physicality. Steltz sucks, and McGowan (who likely won't be with the team next year) is a SS who's glassman II. A big problem with our pass D isn't just because we struggle getting to the passer, both of our safeties suck in coverage. It's so stupid how we have both of them out there on obvious passing downs.

NT is a huge need as well. While Adams has played good, he isn't playing that good. He just looks great compared to ******* Dvoracek, who sucks ass. We need a NT who can free Urlacher and the backers up to make plays. We don't have one. Harris, and the DE's, would also benefit greatly from a stout NT who takes up blockers.

I gotta go now, but I'll finish this thought later.

bearsfan_51
12-23-2008, 12:15 PM
Also, I don't know how many of you noticed, but Rashied Davis didn't see the field once on offense yesterday. Earl Bennett was the 3rd receiver in most formations, but didn't have a ball thrown to him. Criticize Lovie for not showing emotion, but he's been pretty good at benching people that aren't cutting the mustard.

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2008, 12:22 PM
i loved not having to hear his name at all. now bench ******* booker and let rideau get some snaps or something

regoob2
12-23-2008, 12:43 PM
Also, I don't know how many of you noticed, but Rashied Davis didn't see the field once on offense yesterday. Earl Bennett was the 3rd receiver in most formations, but didn't have a ball thrown to him. Criticize Lovie for not showing emotion, but he's been pretty good at benching people that aren't cutting the mustard.Bennett looked pretty quick out there too. I think our coaches have done a very good job this season. We could win 10 games and make the playoffs with a team that doesn't have a lot of talent.

Race for the Heisman
12-23-2008, 12:45 PM
What about Harrison at nose? Players usually improve the most between their rookie and sophomore years and he's definitely big enough.

regoob2
12-23-2008, 12:46 PM
What about Harrison at nose? Players usually improve the most between their rookie and sophomore years and he's definitely big enough.He played there at times yesterday. He didnt have a great game but he would be a good pass rush NT. I like his versatility.

BeerBaron
12-23-2008, 02:27 PM
"Stat of the Week No. 8: The Bears gained only 210 yards in five quarters, had a quarterback with a 48.7 rating, didn't record a sack or have an advantage in turnovers yet won."

good old TMQ... Only the Bears!

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2008, 03:14 PM
cause the bears are awesome, imagine we would do those things

awfullyquiet
12-23-2008, 08:18 PM
Brown (aka glassman) and Payne are both SS (...)we've seen that he isn't a fit at FS because of his lack of physicality. Steltz sucks, and McGowan (who likely won't be with the team next year) is a SS who's glassman II.

Well. Steltz is a first year player. You're throwing the baby out with the water a little to early.
Brown is STILL playing at week 16, which is WAY more than most everyone said he would. He's proved he can play and will finish his career as a bear, but not this year. Sure he's been banged up, but he's playing. Playing at a decently high level.

is it just me or is Orton actually pretty clutch?
i mean in both OTs he made some drives happen, even in the Falcons and Tampa game he did all he could. If Davis catches that perfect pass vs Tampa we wouldve won.

Kinda. He kinda knows where to go with the ball to do the most damage. Sometimes it's to them. Sometimes its to us. There's been many times i've said. If so and so could catch, Orton might be even better. Right now, the only wideout we have is... greg olsen. who can't block.

Smokey Joe
12-23-2008, 08:45 PM
I'm sorry, but after watching Steltz get trucked yesterday, I would have cut him on the spot.

dabears10
12-23-2008, 08:50 PM
I'm sorry, but after watching Steltz get trucked yesterday, I would have cut him on the spot.

Yeah we should have also cut Urlacher when Tom Brady juked him.
VBKJBwdrJoQ

BeerBaron
12-23-2008, 08:53 PM
I'm sorry, but after watching Steltz get trucked yesterday, I would have cut him on the spot.

wow, we should all be very, very glad your not actually in charge of the Bears.

Smokey Joe
12-23-2008, 08:56 PM
Steltz quite simply isn't very good. I have only seen one good play by him all season (granted it's a small sample size). He should be considered nothing more then a backup and special teams player.

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2008, 09:07 PM
yea cause everyone picked in the 5th round draft is gonna be good in his rookie year and ready to start...

Smokey Joe
12-23-2008, 09:16 PM
yea cause everyone picked in the 5th round draft is gonna be good in his rookie year and ready to start...
It doesn't take a lot to see if a player has it or not. From what I have seen, Steltz doesn't have it. He might, might, turn into a decent player, but he should not be counted on to do much more then ST and be a backup.

BeerBaron
12-23-2008, 09:25 PM
yea cause everyone picked in the 5th round draft is gonna be good in his rookie year and ready to start...

I agree. Steltz was a hardworking overachiever (aka white guy) in college, and even he shouldn't be expected to come into the pros and be ready to go right away.

Plus, Smokey, if your basing it off of a trucking....yeah, that sucks, but just about anyone could truck just about anyone else on the football field given the circumstances. I could probably truck an NFL defender if I got all my momentum going forward and put my shoulder into it just right, and the defender was backing up and turning and didn't have the momentum going right, I could run him over. Its going to happen to everyone.

Hell, I remember once a few years back when Jeff Garcia was with the Browns he just plain trampled Brian Dawkins. Thats gotta be embarrassing but Dawkins wasn't cut on the spot.

You just need to take a chill pill sometimes Smokey...we do have a lot of needs, but so does just about every other team. And they only have so many draft picks to go around as well.

regoob2
12-23-2008, 09:28 PM
If Smokey was our GM he'd cut half our team.

Smokey Joe
12-23-2008, 09:32 PM
Obviously that cutting after getting trucked was an overreaction, but that was just pitiful. It was by far one of the worst tackling attempts I've seen all year in the NFL.

Smokey Joe
12-23-2008, 09:34 PM
If Smokey was our GM he'd cut half our team.
I don't know about half, but I'd clean house.

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2008, 09:53 PM
Obviously that cutting after getting trucked was an overreaction, but that was just pitiful. It was by far one of the worst tackling attempts I've seen all year in the NFL.
u havent watched when Daniel Manning or AA tried to tackle? Ouch

Smokey Joe
12-23-2008, 10:02 PM
u havent watched when Daniel Manning or AA tried to tackle? Ouch
Manning gets a bad rap because of the Minnesota game where AP dominated us. We needed the ball back, and Manning decided to go for the strip instead of the tackle. He is certainly no outstanding tackler, but he isn't as bad as some make him out to be.

As for AA, god he was brutal. Steltz getting ran over yesterday was shades of AA pretty much all of last year. At least AA has a hot wife though.

BeerBaron
12-23-2008, 10:10 PM
I wouldn't call Manning even a halfway decent tackler......besides one game last year, I've seen him trying to bring guys down with just an arm or shying away from contact just trying to avoid getting hit himself.

I prefer not to see him out there on defense.....he's quite the liability.

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2008, 10:26 PM
naaah DManning gets bad rep cause i see him trying to tackle

Smokey Joe
12-23-2008, 10:57 PM
Manning has turned into a solid nickel back for us, which is quite a good fit for him for us. He isn't physical enough to play S, but nickel fits him perfectly. He's been playing really well on D this year. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2008, 11:09 PM
we should blitz him more often, seems like they work everytime. Yesterday 1 almost sack, 1 INT, i remember 1 sack vs McNabb

regoob2
12-24-2008, 09:46 AM
Manning is probably our best blitzer we have on our D. Better than any LBs or DBs.

bearsfan_51
12-24-2008, 10:04 AM
Manning is a fine defender so long as he never has to hit anything. Even that sack attempt on Aaron Rodgers was laughably pathetic. He just fell into his waist and starter pulling on him.

regoob2
12-25-2008, 10:19 AM
Merry Christmas to all my fellow Bears fans!!

BeerBaron
12-26-2008, 11:09 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/1349718,CST-SPT-bear26.article

good article on Mike Brown. It'll be sad if we lose him....great team leader.

bearsfan_51
12-26-2008, 02:13 PM
I wish Mike the best, but I really hope that we don't resign him.\

In fact, I'd really like to see him retire and take a spot on our coaching staff, though I doubt he's just ready to do that.

Gay Ork Wang
12-26-2008, 02:15 PM
id love him on our coaching stuff

Smokey Joe
12-26-2008, 02:34 PM
See ya Mike. I love ya, but enough is enough.

Cerni88
12-26-2008, 03:08 PM
I hope we bring Mike Brown back. but i am looking forward to see our young safeties getting challenged this weekend.

BeerBaron
12-26-2008, 03:15 PM
I hope we bring Mike Brown back. but i am looking forward to see our young safeties getting challenged this weekend.

I'm sure they will be with a hobbled Tillman going up against Andre Johnson.

Good news is Aso just totally shut him down last weekend, so it can be done...bad news is we have no one nearly as good as Aso. So I could easily see Andre "Steve Smith" us as I'm sure everyone remembers from the playoffs a few years back...

regoob2
12-26-2008, 03:41 PM
I'm sure they will be with a hobbled Tillman going up against Andre Johnson.

Good news is Aso just totally shut him down last weekend, so it can be done...bad news is we have no one nearly as good as Aso. So I could easily see Andre "Steve Smith" us as I'm sure everyone remembers from the playoffs a few years back...
So we get to play against a pissed off Andre Johnson. That won't be fun.

BeerBaron
12-26-2008, 03:42 PM
So we get to play against a pissed off Andre Johnson. That won't be fun.

We'll see what Craig Steltz and Kevin Payne are made of at least...

Smokey Joe
12-26-2008, 03:54 PM
Well, at least we won't have to see Payne try and be a center fielder next week. He is absolutely terrible in coverage.

Smokey Joe
12-26-2008, 04:00 PM
Cameron Worrell is back... honestly, is there any stopping us now?

pellepelle_10
12-27-2008, 03:31 PM
Manning gets a bad rap because of the Minnesota game where AP dominated us. We needed the ball back, and Manning decided to go for the strip instead of the tackle. He is certainly no outstanding tackler, but he isn't as bad as some make him out to be.

As for AA, god he was brutal. Steltz getting ran over yesterday was shades of AA pretty much all of last year. At least AA has a hot wife though.

Wasn't Manning the one who blew the play against Reggie Wayne in the SB? I could have remembered it was him and not Chris Harris. The year he played he consistently took bad angles as the last line of defense. RB's would simply cut and he'd be out of the play. His coverage was piss poor as well. I will say he's doing much better now and there may be some hope he turns his career around but his first years war far from decent.

Smokey Joe
12-27-2008, 05:41 PM
Wasn't Manning the one who blew the play against Reggie Wayne in the SB? I could have remembered it was him and not Chris Harris. The year he played he consistently took bad angles as the last line of defense. RB's would simply cut and he'd be out of the play. His coverage was piss poor as well. I will say he's doing much better now and there may be some hope he turns his career around but his first years war far from decent.
I never said it was though... I'm just saying Manning is a lot better then people give him credit for, right now.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 05:27 AM
I never said it was though... I'm just saying Manning is a lot better then people give him credit for, right now.

ahh ok. Sorry about that. I don't think its that people don't give him credit..its just that it's hard to forget what he'd continually f up on the previous years that stick in the back of peoples minds. Especially the brain lapse that sparked the Colts run in the Superbowl. *ugh*

I think he's coming along much better than expected though. Special teams has helped him a ton. He did come from a D-II school so maybe it's just taking him longer than people thought he'd need to perform at a top level in the pro's. I will say I'm impressed with his progress.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 01:23 PM
ahh ok. Sorry about that. I don't think its that people don't give him credit..its just that it's hard to forget what he'd continually f up on the previous years that stick in the back of peoples minds. Especially the brain lapse that sparked the Colts run in the Superbowl. *ugh*

I think he's coming along much better than expected though. Special teams has helped him a ton. He did come from a D-II school so maybe it's just taking him longer than people thought he'd need to perform at a top level in the pro's. I will say I'm impressed with his progress.

Can I retract this statement please? lmaoo...I've just seen the Superbowl play all over again and he's fugging up the one thing he's proven to do really well this season. lmaooo

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 01:33 PM
I don't know why he's playing FS... He should stay strictly at nickel back. I blame that on the coaching staff. I think everyone and their dogs have realized that Manning is no good at safety.

bearsfan_51
12-28-2008, 01:34 PM
It was either Manning starting or Steltz starting. I would have preferred Steltz, but I'm not sure there's a right decision there.

BeerBaron
12-28-2008, 01:40 PM
It was either Manning starting or Steltz starting. I would have preferred Steltz, but I'm not sure there's a right decision there.

Well...we should know that Manning isn't very good starting at S. With Steltz, at least he could have been better. We also could have seen what we had in him to see how big of priority FS is going into the offseason.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 01:59 PM
Well...we should know that Manning isn't very good starting at S. With Steltz, at least he could have been better. We also could have seen what we had in him to see how big of priority FS is going into the offseason.

Are there any FA's other than Dawkins?

BeerBaron
12-28-2008, 02:01 PM
Are there any FA's other than Dawkins?

I can't think of anyone good off the top of my head. Whatshisface with the name for the Rams. OJ....dunno if he's actually any good or just very lucky with receiver's hands.

bearsfan_51
12-28-2008, 03:12 PM
Oh well. I predicted us to win 4 games this year, so 9-7 isn't so bad. I'll be fine if everyone comes back next year. But I expect that everyone will be on notice that missing the playoffs again is unacceptable.

Should be an interesting offseason.

Gay Ork Wang
12-28-2008, 03:13 PM
god damn it. **** Nick Roach. **** Tommie Harris. **** Danieal Manning. **** this defense. **** the bears. **** the coaches for not using Forte in the 2nd qrt. jesus christ everyone die

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 03:17 PM
Oh well. I predicted us to win 4 games this year, so 9-7 isn't so bad. I'll be fine if everyone comes back next year. But I expect that everyone will be on notice that missing the playoffs again is unacceptable.

Should be an interesting offseason.

You can say that again. How many of you believe Babich will be back? I for one hope we shake things up defensively. Sad to say our defense has just fallen off the tracks a majority of the season. I expect the offense to be subpar but the defense has been a total letdown.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 03:18 PM
Well...we should know that Manning isn't very good starting at S. With Steltz, at least he could have been better. We also could have seen what we had in him to see how big of priority FS is going into the offseason.
Steltz did play a lot, and even started the game at FS, but it wasn't pretty.

And FS is a huge need. Our secondary getting torn apart isn't all on the DE's, we got crap safeties. I would say SS could be a need as well, but one step at a time. Payne might not be able to cover a lick, but at least he can tackle.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 03:23 PM
Okay, I'd say primary needs are: FS, DE, NT, OG, and RT (in no order)

Secondary needs are: WR, SAM, FB

And additional areas needing work: Change of pace RB, DB Depth

Well, next year is gonna tell us a lot about the immediate future of this Bears team.

Gay Ork Wang
12-28-2008, 03:24 PM
i dont know why u think Payne is horrible at coverage. i mean he isnt great but he is at least average

bearsfan_51
12-28-2008, 03:25 PM
NT is not as big of a need as WR. No way in hell. Our run defense is fine.

And no quarterback? Unless Caleb Hanie is the next great thing I'd definately consider that over a fullback or another linebacker.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 03:25 PM
i dont know why u think Payne is horrible at coverage. i mean he isnt great but he is at least average
He is pretty bad. But, for now, we have much bigger needs to fix.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 03:25 PM
Steltz did play a lot, and even started the game at FS, but it wasn't pretty.

And FS is a huge need. Our secondary getting torn apart isn't all on the DE's, we got crap safeties. I would say SS could be a need as well, but one step at a time. Payne might not be able to cover a lick, but at least he can tackle.

A lot of it starts up front. A good pass rush will make mediocre db's look great. Our inability to generate a decent pass rush all season has exposed a lot of secondary players. Now I'm not saying all the blame comes from up front but if Shaub has forever and a day to pick apart the secondary its going to be a given. I'm on board for Everett Brown if he's avail. I just hope we can bring in a WR to aid this patchwork core we have sofar. Maybe let Orton spend the entire offseason throwing deep balls because its clear his accuracy beyond 15 yd's is downright pathetic.

Gay Ork Wang
12-28-2008, 03:27 PM
i dont think he is bad at all given the fact that ******* babich moves him into the box on 3 and 10 he cant cover anything downfield at the line. i really cant recall a lot of mistakes payne made

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 03:28 PM
NT is not as big of a need as WR. No way in hell. Our run defense is fine.

And no quarterback? Unless Caleb Hanie is the next great thing I'd definately consider that over a fullback or another linebacker.

FB is never a high round pick so I wouldnt sweat it too much bearsfan. You can get solid FB's in the later rnds generally. I'm hoping we package something to Seattle for Leonard Weaver. I know this may be a pipe dream but they literally have 4 FB's on their roster.

bearsfan_51
12-28-2008, 03:28 PM
I would be just fine with Payne as our SS, which is why I don't want Mike Brown back.

Smokey is obviously right though, we don't have a single FS on our roster.

bearsfan_51
12-28-2008, 03:29 PM
FB is never a high round pick so I wouldnt sweat it too much bearsfan. You can get solid FB's in the later rnds generally. I'm hoping we package something to Seattle for Leonard Weaver. I know this may be a pipe dream but they literally have 4 FB's on their roster.

I don't want to spend a draft pick on a fullback. Ever.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 03:33 PM
I don't want to spend a draft pick on a fullback. Ever.

lol even a 5th? lol I was really hoping we used a late rounder last year on Owen Schmidt. Apparently Seattlle struck gold with him because they plan on having him their new starter over Weaver.

Monomach
12-28-2008, 03:33 PM
NT is not as big of a need as WR. No way in hell. Our run defense is fine.

And no quarterback? Unless Caleb Hanie is the next great thing I'd definately consider that over a fullback or another linebacker.

21 total TDs to 12 INTs and just a hair under 3000 yards is about the best QB season in Bears history other than Kramer's one MVPish year...all with a horrible OL, WR corps, and an ankle injury that had him hobbling around for over a month.

If we had a normal Bears defense with Orton's QB play, we'd be Super Bowl favorites.

A veteran backup like a Jeff Garcia would be fine.

I don't want to spend a draft pick on a fullback. Ever.By all means, let's just keep getting McKies when other teams are getting McClains and Hillises.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 03:34 PM
NT is not as big of a need as WR. No way in hell. Our run defense is fine.

And no quarterback? Unless Caleb Hanie is the next great thing I'd definately consider that over a fullback or another linebacker.
NT is a huge need. Not having a good NT has hurt the play of Uralcher and the hole DLine. Adams has been decent, but nothing spectacular (he just looks spectacular because we had to watch Dusty all season). Getting someone like B.J. Raji would do wonders for this D.

I think getting a QB is a huge need, but with Lovie being on the hot seat next year, I don't see where it fits in. We aren't going to spend a 1st round pick on one, and QB's in the 2nd and 3rd round is a crap shoot usually. So, break the bank on Cassel? Go after Collins? There aren't many QB's available to make much of a difference for us. If we were going to go into a rebuilding, QB would be at the top of my list, but like I stated, that isn't happening. With Lovie's job potentially riding on next season, Orton is gonna have to be the man.

As for WR, what's the point with Orton as the QB?

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 03:35 PM
21 total TDs to 12 INTs and just a hair under 3000 yards is about the best QB season in Bears history other than Kramer's one MVPish year...all with a horrible OL, WR corps, and an ankle injury that had him hobbling around for over a month.

If we had a normal Bears defense with Orton's QB play, we'd be Super Bowl favorites.

I'd agree. I wish we had Lloyd longer because he was sorely missed in the WR corps.

bearsfan_51
12-28-2008, 03:36 PM
The only problem we have with our front seven is lack of pass rush. Our run defense is top 5 in the NFL. We aren't going to draft a DT, at least not early.

And I would rather take a 5th or 6th round QB than a fullback. Unless we re-sign Grossman (please no), or get a FA (who?), then we're going to need to fill that 3rd QB spot anyway.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 03:37 PM
FB is never a high round pick so I wouldnt sweat it too much bearsfan. You can get solid FB's in the later rnds generally. I'm hoping we package something to Seattle for Leonard Weaver. I know this may be a pipe dream but they literally have 4 FB's on their roster.
I'm 99% sure Weaver is a FA at the end of the season, and would be the perfect FB for our offense. He basically can do all the things McKie does, but a lot better. Plus, he can block!!!

bearsfan_51
12-28-2008, 03:37 PM
Orton is fine for now, but we really need someone with better physical attributes. He's basically Chad Pennington with not quite as good decision making skills. Lets not allow ourselves to become too complacent at quarterback just because we've historically been ****.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 03:38 PM
NT is a huge need. Not having a good NT has hurt the play of Uralcher and the hole DLine. Adams has been decent, but nothing spectacular (he just looks spectacular because we had to watch Dusty all season). Getting someone like B.J. Raji would do wonders for this D.

I think getting a QB is a huge need, but with Lovie being on the hot seat next year, I don't see where it fits in. We aren't going to spend a 1st round pick on one, and QB's in the 2nd and 3rd round is a crap shoot usually. So, break the bank on Cassel? Go after Collins? There aren't many QB's available to make much of a difference for us. If we were going to go into a rebuilding, QB would be at the top of my list, but like I stated, that isn't happening. With Lovie's job potentially riding on next season, Orton is gonna have to be the man.

As for WR, what's the point with Orton as the QB?

If Lovie is in the hot seat maybe he'll disconnect himself from Bob Babich. I've seen enough of his failure schemes. It's both him and the piss poor effort by the highly paid players (Tommie Harris, Ogunleye, Vasher to name a couple). I hope Maranelli gets fired. I'd love to see him take over as DC.

bearsfan_51
12-28-2008, 03:39 PM
Marinelli as DC is something I could see. If Lovie fires Babich (and I doubt he does), he's only going to do it if he already has someone else in mind.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 03:39 PM
The only problem we have with our front seven is lack of pass rush. Our run defense is top 5 in the NFL. We aren't going to draft a DT.

And I would rather take a 5th or 6th round QB than a fullback. Unless we re-sign Grossman (please no), or get a FA (who?), then we're going to need to fill that 3rd QB spot anyway.
There's not much of a difference between a 5th or 6th round QB then an UDFA one. I'd take Hanie over any QB that was taken last year in the 5th or 6th round. Then again, same could be said about FB in the draft. But remember, I never said to draft one in my previous post. I was just listing what was IMO, the order of importance positions needed upgrading at.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 03:41 PM
I'm 99% sure Weaver is a FA at the end of the season, and would be the perfect FB for our offense. He basically can do all the things McKie does, but a lot better. Plus, he can block!!!

I agree. The guy is a monster. Seattle has a ton of FB's. Duckett, Schmitt, and Weaver.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 03:41 PM
Orton is fine for now, but we really need someone with better physical attributes. He's basically Chad Pennington with not quite as good decision making skills. Lets not allow ourselves to become too complacent at quarterback just because we've historically been ****.

I agree, but if next year could mean Lovie's job, I don't see us going out and spending a large chunk of money on a FA QB or spending our 1st round pick on a QB.

bearsfan_51
12-28-2008, 03:42 PM
There's not much of a difference between a 5th or 6th round QB then an UDFA one. I'd take Hanie over any QB that was taken last year in the 5th or 6th round. Then again, same could be said about FB in the draft. But remember, I never said to draft one in my previous post. I was just listing what was IMO, the order of importance positions needed upgrading at.
Fair enough. I would just rather stock up on young quarterbacks than young fullbacks.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 03:42 PM
Marinelli as DC is something I could see. If Lovie fires Babich (and I doubt he does), he's only going to do it if he already has someone else in mind.
The thing about Marinelli I like is that he is a great DLine coach. And right now, DLine is probably the biggest weakness on our D.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 03:43 PM
Marinelli as DC is something I could see. If Lovie fires Babich (and I doubt he does), he's only going to do it if he already has someone else in mind.

I'm hoping the above happens if his ass is on the line nxt yr. Defense is clearly a problem and we're not far off from the same D we had when Rivera was here. True some accountability lies on the players but the defensive schemes have been just as suspect. He's run countless blitzes and they've proven worse.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 03:44 PM
I agree, but if next year could mean Lovie's job, I don't see us going out and spending a large chunk of money on a FA QB or spending our 1st round pick on a QB.

A pissed off McNabb anyone? lol (waits to get flamed) I might be in this alone but I'd LOVE to see him here on a vengence.

Geo
12-28-2008, 03:46 PM
I'm leery about Marinelli as a DC because I don't know how good of a grasp he has in terms of the secondary. He's a DL guy, and the secondary constantly struggled during his tenure in Detroit.

But with the Bears, if they have a good secondary coach, that might not be as big an issue as it might with some other teams.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 03:46 PM
The thing about Marinelli I like is that he is a great DLine coach. And right now, DLine is probably the biggest weakness on our D.

This is one reason I mentioned him and 2nd, Lovie tried to get him when he first got the job but Chucky wouldn't allow any teams to speak with him. He could have already been the DC. I don't see any reason why Lovie wouldn't make an attempt at him if he's avail. Clearly he's not getting an HC job. lol

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 03:52 PM
I'm leery about Marinelli as a DC because I don't know how good of a grasp he has in terms of the secondary. He's a DL guy, and the secondary constantly struggled during his tenure in Detroit.

But with the Bears, if they have a good secondary coach, that might not be as big an issue as it might with some other teams.
Lets be honest here, everything constantly struggled during his tenure in Detroit. But I can't really blame him because look who had to work with, freaking Matt Millen, and his owner is an idiot.

I think we do have a good secondary coach in Wilks, but he has just been plagued by a crappy DC in Babich (or Lovie, if he ever took over the D), and overall crappy DLine play.

Geo
12-28-2008, 03:54 PM
Lets be honest here, everything constantly struggled during his tenure in Detroit. But I can't really blame him because look who had to work with, freaking Matt Millen, and his owner is an idiot.

I think we do have a good secondary coach in Wilks, but he has just been plagued by a crappy DC in Babich (or Lovie, if he ever took over the D), and overall crappy DLine play.
I think Marinelli did some good things wrt to the front seven, at times, but the secondary was always bad under him in Detroit.

And even when he became involved in the Draft, he didn't seem to have an eye for talent at those positions either, although maybe a guy or two pans out in the years to come.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 03:56 PM
Another thing that has been on my mind for a while that I want to mention is that we need a new strength and conditioning coordinator. These past two seasons, I've seen the players on the team die as the game progresses, especially on D. This season was also a lot worse then last year. When you see everyone on the team with their hands on their hips in the 4th quarter, or even earlier a lot of times, it just makes me sick. These are suppose to be professional athletes, and they're not properly conditioned to handle a full game? My god.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 04:00 PM
I think Marinelli did some good things wrt to the front seven, at times, but the secondary was always bad under him in Detroit.

And even when he became involved in the Draft, he didn't seem to have an eye for talent at those positions either, although maybe a guy or two pans out in the years to come.

Kevin Smith has turned around quite nicely. They traded Roy for a 1st and hasn't panned at all in Dallas. He was a cancer in Detriot and they could end up the victors. QB remains a huge problem as many positions. I think Detroit is one hard place for any coach to shine when you have Matt Millen holding you down. Oh well I'm hoping their loss is our gain. All I know is I don't want to see Bob Babich another season as DC.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 04:03 PM
Another thing that has been on my mind for a while that I want to mention is that we need a new strength and conditioning coordinator. These past two seasons, I've seen the players on the team die as the game progresses, especially on D. This season was also a lot worse then last year. When you see everyone on the team with their hands on their hips in the 4th quarter, or even earlier a lot of times, it just makes me sick. These are suppose to be professional athletes, and they're not properly conditioned to handle a full game? My god.

Add in the fact that these guys are making millions of dollars and they can't sustain a full game. It makes me want to puke. Especially when I can see a highschool game down the street and kids play double overtime without passing out.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 04:04 PM
Kevin Smith has turned around quite nicely. They traded Roy for a 1st and hasn't panned at all in Dallas. He was a cancer in Detriot and they could end up the victors. QB remains a huge problem as many positions. I think Detroit is one hard place for any coach to shine when you have Matt Millen holding you down. Oh well I'm hoping their loss is our gain. All I know is I don't want to see Bob Babich another season as DC.
Well, they got rid of Millen, but now they have Ford planning on not cleaning house, after an 0-16 season! My god, it's despicable for FOOTBALL fans to witness an idiot owner just completely ruin a historic franchise.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 04:07 PM
Add in the fact that these guys are making millions of dollars and they can't sustain a full game. It makes me want to puke. Especially when I can see a highschool game down the street and kids play double overtime without passing out.
Don't forget in high school a lot of players play both ways. Now there is a big difference between the two, but the student athletes who actually PAY to play have more heart then the PROFESSIONALS who are PAYED to play. It is sickening.

Geo
12-28-2008, 04:14 PM
Another thing that has been on my mind for a while that I want to mention is that we need a new strength and conditioning coordinator. These past two seasons, I've seen the players on the team die as the game progresses, especially on D.
I think part of this is systemic to the defense. Keeping everything in front of you and trying to punish the opponent on every play, it takes its toll. It just seems Tampa 2 defenses suffer more injuries than some other defenses, barring other factors like age (Patriots) and the like, although maybe that isn't really the case.

This season was also a lot worse then last year. When you see everyone on the team with their hands on their hips in the 4th quarter, or even earlier a lot of times, it just makes me sick. These are suppose to be professional athletes, and they're not properly conditioned to handle a full game? My god.
I think you might be able to trace this to the season-long struggles the Bears defense has had on third down. If you can't get off the field, even a well-conditioned defense built on speed is going to get worn down as the game progresses and as the season progresses.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 04:15 PM
Don't forget in high school a lot of players play both ways. Now there is a big difference between the two, but the student athletes who actually PAY to play have more heart then the PROFESSIONALS who are PAYED to play. It is sickening.

My thoughts exactly buddy. It is sickening.

toonsterwu
12-28-2008, 04:16 PM
Maybe this loss will be a good thing. I was somewhat worried that a win would lead the FO to be a bit complacent, thinking they were close. Maybe a loss gets them to be creative, to challenge. For as decent as our record was this year, we weren't a team that "deserved" the playoffs, but rather, a team that had a shot of lucking into it.

In some ways, this season feels like a waste to me. Sure, there's been some positives. Hester shows signs of perhaps becoming a decent secondary receiver. Forte is a capable lead back. Nick Roach has looked good in the time he's been in. Corey Graham looks capable.

But this team still has some glaring holes. We entered this season wondering if we had a QB that could win. We leave the season knowing that we have a QB that can manage, but whether said QB can win is a big question. We still don't have a lead receiver. Our OL was okay, but St. Clair is likely to leave and we still don't know about Chris Williams. For all the resources allocated to the defense, it was up and down and really, it needs a makeover.

What I would honestly like to see is the FO maneuver to draft a QB. This isn't a pretty draft class, particularly now that Goodell has come out and said changes won't happen for a couple more years. Drafting a QB in the late rounds - well, I'd rather see what Hanie can do. We need a young QB to challenge in there, and honestly, even with the juniors, this QB class isn't all that pretty. Even the class afterwards might not be all that great. Personally, my favorite is Josh Freeman, who likely comes off the board late first/early 2nd.

I still say don't rule out CB, with Tillman dropping back into the FS slot. Yes, cover 2 teams should not draft CB's early if they have other needs. But ... I can see the FO deciding to wait on DE, I don't see the FO drafting DT or LB. Now, if an elite FS is there, then that's probably the more preferabl route.

I wouldn't mind keeping St. Clair and letting Tait go, to be honest. Doubt that will happen, but I wouldn't mind it. Actually, speaking of things I wouldn't mind, I wouldn't mind letting Urlacher, Kreutz, or Vasher go, but I don't see Urlacher/Kreutz happening, and Vasher I think is probably 50/50.

Let's see, I think we do need a DT, and in particular, a NT. We just can't trust Dvoracek's health, and Adams has been solid, but an upgrade can be needed (add in that, Harris can't play every play, and depth is necessary). This shouldn't be a top need, since we have other areas of focus, but it needs to be addressed. I think Dvoracek may be gone, with Harrison/new piece as the backups. I'd like to see another young LB in the mix, a guy potentially groomed to take over at MIKE. We can find that guy later, though.

I agree that DE needs to be looked at, but I'm not sold the FO drafts a guy slated to be a third DE in the first. Not against it, but I don't see it. Maybe they prove me wrong. Maybe in the 2nd/3rd, but first? Not sold. We need a top WR, if only to open things up for everyone else. We need that big downfield target. We don't have that. Getting said big target could open things up in the passing game a bit more.

A backup RB is needed. If Tait returns, as I suspect, then we should pick up a guy in that 3rd-5th range to groom as a possible RT.

regoob2
12-28-2008, 04:20 PM
^ DE is definetly a 1st round need. A DE wouldnt start right away no matter what so a DE can play situational in his first yr and take over when Oguns contract is up

Geo
12-28-2008, 04:21 PM
I still say don't rule out CB, with Tillman dropping back into the FS slot. Yes, cover 2 teams should not draft CB's early if they have other needs. But ... I can see the FO deciding to wait on DE, I don't see the FO drafting DT or LB. Now, if an elite FS is there, then that's probably the more preferabl route.
There's one corner in that range, I think: Vontae Davis. Who I think would be really well suited for a Tampa 2 defense. Would you be for drafting him, toon?

I think Alphonso Smith should be in that range, but his height - rather lack thereof - will have an impact.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 04:21 PM
I think part of this is systemic to the defense. Keeping everything in front of you and trying to punish the opponent on every play, it takes its toll. It just seems Tampa 2 defenses suffer more injuries than some other defenses, barring other factors like age (Patriots) and the like, although maybe that isn't really the case.


I think you might be able to trace this to the season-long struggles the Bears defense has had on third down. If you can't get off the field, even a well-conditioned defense built on speed is going to get worn down as the game progresses and as the season progresses.

Do you remember 2005 when Orton had a 59.7 season rating? We went 11-5 and had a 1st rnd bye without a true offense. The defense was on the field practically the entire game. It is possible. Our offense now is a hell of a lot better than it was in 05. Our defense isn't even close. Not even a hair.

toonsterwu
12-28-2008, 04:28 PM
^ DE is definetly a 1st round need. A DE wouldnt start right away no matter what so a DE can play situational in his first yr and take over when Oguns contract is up

Again, I'm not saying it's not a top need. What I'm saying is I'm not sold the FO is going to look that route that early. Maybe I'm off.

Short of it is - let's say WR, which everyone in the world would acknowledge is a need for us, has value there. Or maybe a QB has slipped (I think the love on Bradford may settle a bit come draft time - I don't love him, but if he drops to mid-first, you pull the trigger). Maybe a stud FS is there (it's not impossible to think Mays drops to mid-first, not likely, but not impossible. Would the team draft a DE there ahead of those three positions?

It's early, though, so I'm only speculating on possibilities. But why not wait until the 2nd/3rd round to grab a DE? I like the depth in that 2nd-3rd round range on DE, and I don't think it's far different from the guys that will go in round 1, outside of the fact that the first rounders are a bit more polished.

toonsterwu
12-28-2008, 04:30 PM
There's one corner in that range, I think: Vontae Davis. Who I think would be really well suited for a Tampa 2 defense. Would you be for drafting him, toon?

I think Alphonso Smith should be in that range, but his height - rather lack thereof - will have an impact.

Comes down to the board. I'm not saying we should draft a CB, but I can definitely see a situation where a CB is the best pick.

I would also caution against assuming Malcolm Jenkins will go top 10. It wouldn't surprise me if he ended up in the mid-first. There's enough people that aren't ecstatic over him.

But to answer your question more directly, is there a scenario where I would go, heck yeah, let's draft Vontae? Yes. Although part of me wonders about sticking him at FS, but yes, there are scenarios where I'd be okay with a Vontae pick.

MidwayMonster31
12-28-2008, 04:41 PM
That squib kick bites us in the ass again.
The Bears were a very flawed team and if anything, they overachieved. For DC, I thought that Lovie originally wanted Marinelli to be his DC, but Tampa Bay didn't allow him to leave. I think they'll demote Babich and bring Marinelli in.
There are many needs that the Bears need to address. I think we should keep Orton for at least 2 more years, because they probably can't find anything better. They need to get another back to take some of the load off of Forte. Jeremiah Johnson could work. The wide receiver corps needs an overhaul. They should draft at least two receivers. Right tackle and left guard are problems in the offensive line. Phil Loadholt should be able to solve right tackle and maybe they can sign a guard.
The defense needs to improve their pass rush. I want Everette Brown, but he may not be there. I think that DT can be drafted later. The linebackers should be fine. I think that we can sign another corner back for depth. Safety is an issue with Brown becoming a free agent. With how weak the safety class is this year, I don't think they can address it this year. They might have to sign someone.
Now we're waiting until the offseason, we put ourselves in this position.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 04:43 PM
Again, I'm not saying it's not a top need. What I'm saying is I'm not sold the FO is going to look that route that early. Maybe I'm off.

Short of it is - let's say WR, which everyone in the world would acknowledge is a need for us, has value there. Or maybe a QB has slipped (I think the love on Bradford may settle a bit come draft time - I don't love him, but if he drops to mid-first, you pull the trigger). Maybe a stud FS is there (it's not impossible to think Mays drops to mid-first, not likely, but not impossible. Would the team draft a DE there ahead of those three positions?

It's early, though, so I'm only speculating on possibilities. But why not wait until the 2nd/3rd round to grab a DE? I like the depth in that 2nd-3rd round range on DE, and I don't think it's far different from the guys that will go in round 1, outside of the fact that the first rounders are a bit more polished.

Remember the fact that Angelo typically pulls late round defensive players fairly well. I'm learning not to underestimate his late round defensive picks.

My question is will he go O-Line yet again in the 1st? I'm thinking they won't for the simple fact they've been burned twice now. Maybe they roll the dice and go OG. I'm thinking it's probably not going to be the case.

Will they go DE? We do clearly need a pass rush but is this due to poor schemes or the players? It could be both but my hunch is its most likely piss poor scheming than anything. I thought this was one of our deep positions but this may not be the case. The way this season has panned we have a deep core of soso DE's and no star.

DT i'd find really hard to address in any of the early rounds. With Adams, Harris, Dvoracek (Mike Brown Jr.), and Harrison I'd think we were fine. I have the same opinions here as I do for DE other than the fact Tommie Harris should be playing up to his star potential.

WR is what I would think the top pick could be for the simple fact we have no star and it doesn't seem any top tire FA's will be avail unless Roy Williams is dumped. I'd rather pass on him personally although if some miracle occurred and Anquan Boldin wasn't extended I would LOVE to trade a pick for him. (I'm pipe dreaming)

Safety should be one of our top positions to address but as toons stated will there be anyone of value here? This wouldn't be a bad position to address. Laron Landry's brother is available as FA so maybe we can do something to bring him in. He just came off of a season ending injury so maybe management will look another direction.

Quarterback is all but too common. Our need for a qb is like Detriots need for a winning season. It seems like it's never going to happen. I'm hopeful Kyle will have a better second season. This is his first full year of playing so I don't mind giving him a second shot. He wasn't terrible but he wasn't spectacular either. He does deserve another year though. I wouldn't mind drafting another player. I'm not sure Lovie will go in the 1st though. I could be wrong.

toonsterwu
12-28-2008, 04:50 PM
Remember the fact that Angelo typically pulls late round defensive players fairly well. I'm learning not to underestimate his late round defensive picks.

My question is will he go O-Line yet again in the 1st? I'm thinking they won't for the simple fact they've been burned twice now. Maybe they roll the dice and go OG. I'm thinking it's probably not going to be the case.

Will they go DE? We do clearly need a pass rush but is this due to poor schemes or the players? It could be both but my hunch is its most likely piss poor scheming than anything. I thought this was one of our deep positions but this may not be the case. The way this season has panned we have a deep core of soso DE's and no star.

DT i'd find really hard to address in any of the early rounds. With Adams, Harris, Dvoracek (Mike Brown Jr.), and Harrison I'd think we were fine. I have the same opinions here as I do for DE other than the fact Tommie Harris should be playing up to his star potential.

WR is what I would think the top pick could be for the simple fact we have no star and it doesn't seem any top tire FA's will be avail unless Roy Williams is dumped. I'd rather pass on him personally although if some miracle occurred and Anquan Boldin wasn't extended I would LOVE to trade a pick for him. (I'm pipe dreaming)

Safety should be one of our top positions to address but as toons stated will there be anyone of value here? This wouldn't be a bad position to address. Laron Landry's brother is available as FA so maybe we can do something to bring him in. He just came off of a season ending injury so maybe management will look another direction.

Quarterback is all but too common. Our need for a qb is like Detriots need for a winning season. It seems like it's never going to happen. I'm hopeful Kyle will have a better second season. This is his first full year of playing so I don't mind giving him a second shot. He wasn't terrible but he wasn't spectacular either. He does deserve another year though. I wouldn't mind drafting another player. I'm not sure Lovie will go in the 1st though. I could be wrong.

Quick thoughts:

Considering we're picking mid-first, I don't think any OG will be worth it there. To go OL in the first would require two things to happen, IMO:

a) Someone to get cut/released (Tait the most likely candidate)
b) A RT talent worth it. I don't know if I see RT type in that range.

The darkhorse would be if the staff is really down on Chris Williams and we don't know it. I doubt it, and even then, they'd probably still give him a shot.

As for DL, my thought is this - without a consistently dominating interior, teams can iso up on Brown/Ogun, limiting their effectiveness. I would like to see more blitzing (don't know the percentages off the top, but whatever it is, I would've liked to see more), but that isn't what Lovie and Babich do. In saying that, a young DE is needed. If they think they can trust Dvoracek, then maybe no DT, but after all his injuries, I just don't know about that. Not saying an early DT, but if Dusty goes, I think we add a youngster.

I really don't think QB will happen in the first (or move to the early 2nd to nab someone) unless a top guy falls (and so far, everyone is assuming Stafford and Bradford will go pro, it's possible only one does). As noted in the previous post, I am a Josh Freeman fan, and I think bringing him in here could give him a year to learn and push Orton a bit more.

pellepelle_10
12-28-2008, 04:51 PM
That squib kick bites us in the ass again.
The Bears were a very flawed team and if anything, they overachieved. For DC, I thought that Lovie originally wanted Marinelli to be his DC, but Tampa Bay didn't allow him to leave. I think they'll demote Babich and bring Marinelli in.
There are many needs that the Bears need to address. I think we should keep Orton for at least 2 more years, because they probably can't find anything better. They need to get another back to take some of the load off of Forte. Jeremiah Johnson could work. The wide receiver corps needs an overhaul. They should draft at least two receivers. Right tackle and left guard are problems in the offensive line. Phil Loadholt should be able to solve right tackle and maybe they can sign a guard.
The defense needs to improve their pass rush. I want Everette Brown, but he may not be there. I think that DT can be drafted later. The linebackers should be fine. I think that we can sign another corner back for depth. Safety is an issue with Brown becoming a free agent. With how weak the safety class is this year, I don't think they can address it this year. They might have to sign someone.
Now we're waiting until the offseason, we put ourselves in this position.

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens with the safety position. It is definately a need.

BeerBaron
12-28-2008, 06:25 PM
If someone had told us before the season started that we'd be 9-7 having just barely missed out on the playoffs, I think we would all have been content am I wrong? So many of us though the offense would be pitiful and we'd be lucky to get 5 wins.....so this isn't horrible by any stretch. Disappointing with how close we were, but better than any of us would have thought preseason.

Now, what to do...what to do.

Maybe I'm just being overly reactive, but I'd like to see a small shakeup of the coaching staff. Ron Turner and his predictable playcalling as well as his failures at developing....anyone.....needs to go. I don't have a replacement readily in mind but I'd love someone who could work with the passing game a bit. Develop Orton and work with his strengths as well as get the most out of our receivers and TEs. Forte looks to be a solid all around back for us moving forward and I'd like to create a competent offense around him.

As for the defense, I think a change is due there too. Lovie can stay as HC, but I think we need someone other than Babich to run that defense. Sure, various injuries have hurt us but I think the defense is underachieving. Like its been said, best defense on 1st and 2nd down, worst on 3rd down. (stats probably don't back up that fully but it sure feels that way....ugh.)

Area 1 on the defense to fix: pass rush. It's sickening. Unless we picked some late sacks in the Texans game, we just went like 2 games without one. Disgusting....absolutely horribly for a Cover 2 team. We need to get pressure with our front 4 and that hasn't been happening.

Again, I don't have anyone specific in mind to target as a new DC but we need a change. Shake up the staff and let Lovie know that he's next if things don't turn around next season.

As for players, I'd love to make a hard run at Terrell Suggs. Pull what we did with Muhammad and throw a big pile of money at him as soon as FA starts up. Fill that need and let us focus on the offense in the draft.

As has been stated, o-line help is needed as well as a big, physical receiver. Crabtree would be lovely but he not going to fall anywhere near us while guys like Britt and NIcks would need to have great workouts to move close to us. My interest in DHB, Maclin or Harvin is virtually non-existent with Orton as our QB. It would be absolutely wasteful. Those guys are basically Hesters without the benefit of 2 years in our offensive system. Orton can't hit the one speedy deep threat we do have, why the hell do we want another? If we get a big, physical WR we could replicate what we had the Superbowl year a little with Hester playing the Berrian role and new guy playing the Muhammad role. Add Olsen and Forte into the mix and our offense could be even better than that was if we can get everything clicking.

I would also like to continue reforming the o-line. We're in a division where we have to face Minnesota's Williams' wall twice a year and we play in what could be pretty lousy elements 6-10 games every year...I think a big road grating, run blocking mauler would be a great addition in place of Garza who's been rather unimpressive imo. Herman Johnson in the 2nd round leaves some to be desired as a pass blocker but for a RG, he'd be great. Just power forward and knock guys out of the runners way.

That said, I still feel DE to be a bigger need. the FO might not see it that way, but I don't know about you guys, I for sure was sick and tired of giving up a first every time they other team threw for it on 3rd down because we had no one within 10 feet of the QB.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2008, 07:32 PM
Maybe this loss will be a good thing. I was somewhat worried that a win would lead the FO to be a bit complacent, thinking they were close. Maybe a loss gets them to be creative, to challenge. For as decent as our record was this year, we weren't a team that "deserved" the playoffs, but rather, a team that had a shot of lucking into it.
Completely agreed.

In some ways, this season feels like a waste to me. Sure, there's been some positives. Hester shows signs of perhaps becoming a decent secondary receiver. Forte is a capable lead back. Nick Roach has looked good in the time he's been in. Corey Graham looks capable.
Agreed.

But this team still has some glaring holes. We entered this season wondering if we had a QB that could win. We leave the season knowing that we have a QB that can manage, but whether said QB can win is a big question. We still don't have a lead receiver. Our OL was okay, but St. Clair is likely to leave and we still don't know about Chris Williams. For all the resources allocated to the defense, it was up and down and really, it needs a makeover.
Agreed mostly. As for St. Clair, the only way I see him staying is if we tell him the starting LG spot is his to lose. If not, there will be plenty of teams willing to give him a starting job for relatively cheap. As for him being our LG, I wouldn't mind it, but I think we need a better run blocker. As for RT, I don't think St. Clair is a good enough run blocker to play there, but he might be an upgrade over Tait, but Tait will likely stay as he only has 1, and I don't know if we would save any money by doing so.

What I would honestly like to see is the FO maneuver to draft a QB. This isn't a pretty draft class, particularly now that Goodell has come out and said changes won't happen for a couple more years. Drafting a QB in the late rounds - well, I'd rather see what Hanie can do. We need a young QB to challenge in there, and honestly, even with the juniors, this QB class isn't all that pretty. Even the class afterwards might not be all that great. Personally, my favorite is Josh Freeman, who likely comes off the board late first/early 2nd.
I like the idea of drafting a QB round 1, but two things (1) I'm not that high on Freeman and (2) With jobs possibly riding on next season, I don't see us going QB as it likely won't make any difference for us next season. It would be a good start for rebuilding, but I don't see a rebuilding happening.

I still say don't rule out CB, with Tillman dropping back into the FS slot. Yes, cover 2 teams should not draft CB's early if they have other needs. But ... I can see the FO deciding to wait on DE, I don't see the FO drafting DT or LB. Now, if an elite FS is there, then that's probably the more preferabl route.
I still don't see it. If we change schemes, then sure, maybe move Tillman to FS, but until then, Tillman is our best corner, and we'd likely be downgrading with a rookie.


I wouldn't mind keeping St. Clair and letting Tait go, to be honest. Doubt that will happen, but I wouldn't mind it. Actually, speaking of things I wouldn't mind, I wouldn't mind letting Urlacher, Kreutz, or Vasher go, but I don't see Urlacher/Kreutz happening, and Vasher I think is probably 50/50.
If our DLine wasn't so crappy this year, and if we had an actual NT, there would be no talk of letting Urlacher go. In fact, Urlacher's play got a lot better once Dvoracek got injured, because Adams was a competent NT. As for Kreutz, he certainly isn't the player he once was, but he's still decent. However, today was his worst game of the season. I saw far too many plays blown up because he stood straight up and got drove back. As for Vasher, we aren't cutting him, and it's a silly thought. We just gave him a big contract, but we need him to slim back down.

Let's see, I think we do need a DT, and in particular, a NT. We just can't trust Dvoracek's health, and Adams has been solid, but an upgrade can be needed (add in that, Harris can't play every play, and depth is necessary). This shouldn't be a top need, since we have other areas of focus, but it needs to be addressed. I think Dvoracek may be gone, with Harrison/new piece as the backups. I'd like to see another young LB in the mix, a guy potentially groomed to take over at MIKE. We can find that guy later, though.
We can't trust Dvoracek's health, and when he has been healthy, he's played like ****. It's a no brainer for me, he should be gone. Personally, if BJ Raji is there when we pick, I'd be very tempted to pick him. He might be a big run stuffer, but he has the ability to penetrate (not a sexual reference, unless you get turned on by TFL's and sacks) as well. However, it is because of his ability to stop the run and cause a little pressure that, I feel, will lead to him getting picked before us. As for UT depth, I think Harrison and Idonije are good depth. Harrison is a bit of a UT-NT tweener, and Idonije should only be in on obvious passing downs.

As for LB, the day Urlacher is not the starting MIKE for us, Briggs will be. I think we need someone else at SAM. Roach is decent, and HH's play has decreased a lot, and I think he is a possible cut.

I agree that DE needs to be looked at, but I'm not sold the FO drafts a guy slated to be a third DE in the first. Not against it, but I don't see it. Maybe they prove me wrong. Maybe in the 2nd/3rd, but first? Not sold. We need a top WR, if only to open things up for everyone else. We need that big downfield target. We don't have that. Getting said big target could open things up in the passing game a bit more.
Agreed about DE. However, I would not be oppossed to signing Terrell Suggs.

A backup RB is needed. If Tait returns, as I suspect, then we should pick up a guy in that 3rd-5th range to groom as a possible RT.
Agreed.

toonsterwu
12-28-2008, 10:51 PM
Reading Lovie's post-game thoughts are a bit disappointing. It sounds like he feels like we are close. We are close to be being decent, but the goal should be getting close to a Super Bowl caliber team, and I'm not sure we are close.

I'm running through a lot of possibilities. As much as I would like to nab a QB early, I doubt it. Personally, I wouldn't draft a QB in the later rounds if I pass in the first 2-3, as I think you'll get UDFA's that are close to guys that go off in the 4th-7th range and I don't know if guys in the 4-7 range are better than, say, Caleb Hanie. I would look to see if there is a young veteran QB somewhere that might be able to be had on the cheap. This will probably get a mixed response, but I'd test the waters on Alex Smith and see what it could cost to get him as a backup. Alex showed promise in Norv's schemes, and Ron runs somewhat similar schemes to his brother.

The problem is, for all the potential issues, a lot of positions can be crossed off the first round. I mean, I don't see a guard in the late teens, don't see a RT being worth it there as of now (good to see the ridiculous hype on Phil Loadholt has somewhat died down, he's a solid RT prospect, but the hype last year was ridiculous at times), RB/QB/TE aren't areas likely to be pursued early, LB isn't. So, WR, DL, or DB would be the priority focus for me, with value coming thereafter. But ... DB isn't a traditional top pick for the scheme, WR value could be left with the LaFell's, DHB's, Harvin's, Maclin's of the world, none of them guys that scream out "We must have him here", and I'm still not sold this front office would spent a mid-first on a first year backup after missing the playoffs 2 years in a row.

That is our huge conundrum. Tear it down, and we take another year or two of rebuilding, barring a surprise. Plug the holes, and I'm not sure this is a team inching closer to the Super Bowl without some luck. This is one draft where, sitting in the late teens, I wouldn't mind if we aggressively pushed up for someone. In this case, two guys - Michael Crabtree or Taylor Mays. You grab one of those guys, and things slot a bit better for how you reshape the team.

Smokey keeps mentioning BJ Raji, and I'm not against that idea, but I don't know if we spend a first on a NT. A guy I wouldn't mind looking at later is Terrance Taylor. Raji's teammate Ron Brace is a guy that pops my curiosity a bit for us.

Smokey, I doubt Briggs moves to MIKE when Urlacher is done. I just don't think Briggs will have enough range to cover the deep middle (assuming we are still cover 2) at that stage of his career.

BeerBaron
12-28-2008, 11:05 PM
Smokey, I doubt Briggs moves to MIKE when Urlacher is done. I just don't think Briggs will have enough range to cover the deep middle (assuming we are still cover 2) at that stage of his career.

Didn't Briggs do it with pretty good success a few years back when Urlacher was constantly hurt with the hammy? I could have sworn he more than held his own in there...

dabears10
12-28-2008, 11:08 PM
Didn't Briggs do it with pretty good success a few years back when Urlacher was constantly hurt with the hammy? I could have sworn he more than held his own in there...

Well it depends on when you think Urlacher is done. If Urlacher isn't done in 4 years, does Briggs lose a step and unable to properly patrol the middle? It will remained to be seen but I could see Briggs to get worn down.

bearsfan_51
12-28-2008, 11:30 PM
Reading Lovie's post-game thoughts are a bit disappointing. It sounds like he feels like we are close. We are close to be being decent, but the goal should be getting close to a Super Bowl caliber team, and I'm not sure we are close.

I thought his comments were fine. We were close to the playoffs and we are better than we were last year. Hopefully Jerry has his presser tomorrow, his comments are always much more revealing than Lovie's. Lovie is the good cop for sure, and his interests are obviously in motivating the players currently under contract. To come out and say that we need to blow the whole thing up would be irresponsible on his part IMO.

toonsterwu
12-29-2008, 12:02 AM
Didn't Briggs do it with pretty good success a few years back when Urlacher was constantly hurt with the hammy? I could have sworn he more than held his own in there...

Sure, he was fine. But say Urlacher goes 4-5 more years? Even 2-3 more years? At that point, I'd have my doubts. Actually, I'd have my doubts right now, and I'd further add that Briggs at WLB may be better in general for the defense akin to Brooks in Tampa for all those years.

toonsterwu
12-29-2008, 12:07 AM
I thought his comments were fine. We were close to the playoffs and we are better than we were last year. Hopefully Jerry has his presser tomorrow, his comments are always much more revealing than Lovie's. Lovie is the good cop for sure, and his interests are obviously in motivating the players currently under contract. To come out and say that we need to blow the whole thing up would be irresponsible on his part IMO.

I'm not asking him to come out and say "X, Y, and Z" needs to go, but basically, to light a fire under his players. Based on the comments, it seems like the players, at least, the veteran leaders, like Alex Brown, were basically asking for someone to do that.

Without knowing day to day life in the locker room, I think one valid question that's never really asked is if we have strong leadership in the locker room. Actually, let's be more specific. Vocal leadership. Outside of Mike Brown, I'm not sure that any of our current top players have ever really been singled out as strong vocal leaders. If that player leadership isn't there, and there's been times this year when the player's comments suggested, like today, that they need some sort of vocal direction, then it needs to come from the coach, as it did with the 49ers after Nolan got canned and Singletary took over. Doesn't have to be an in-your face type leadership, but a "if you don't do your job, you are in trouble" type firmness.

bearsfan_51
12-29-2008, 01:54 AM
I think Lovie has shown in the past that he's willing to bench/fire players that don't perform. That speaks a lot louder than yelling.

VoteLynnSwan
12-29-2008, 01:58 AM
i wish we had brought Singletary in on our coaching staff at some point... we really dropped the ball on that one (assuming of course he wanted at any point to be affiliated with the Bears coaching staff)

Gay Ork Wang
12-29-2008, 03:23 AM
a few things:

@toonster: we have been blitzing the most in the nfl. in the packers game or something like that they said we are blitzing about 36% of our snaps. people just dont see it cause we get as much pressure as a front 4 should. id really be against letting briggs move to MLB. as far as ive seen, he is not really great at covering. i feel like Urlacher is doing an okay job, but i feel like the team needs to stop overpursueing. i mean swarming to the ball is one thing. but we held them to like 30 yards rushing in the first half or so and they still could fake us out with PA wtf?

i think Orton is still hurt. seeing him on the field running to the huddle he was still hurt and kind of hobbling. i feel like the few games after the eagles game he played great up until the ankle was hurt. i think he even said that he was really hurt in everything he does. so i really want to see at least 1 or 2 more season with him as our QB. he is no one that is gonna improve this team like a elite QB does, but by no means is he a problem imo.

I like how the Coaching staff kind of rests forte, i dont like that they pound it one quarter, then sit him out the next. We need a 1-2 punch. also we should have thrown more swing passes to him.

Our Defensives coaches should never ever put Danieal Manning at safety again. he is a solid nickel and we should blitz him. he is also an incredible kick returner. but his tackling is really horrible. seeing him blowing the assignement on AJ, piss poor tackling on slaton i think, where he had to throw him self on that guys back, and one time where he just got destroyed by Moats or Slaton and he could only save a TD by grabbing the feet. a safety shouldnt be as bad as he is at tackling.

That said i think our Offense did better than we thought, our ST was great this year and saved our ass a couple of games. Our Offense needs to improve and the Defense needs to start waking up next year

bearfan
12-29-2008, 10:24 AM
statistically, I think orton had a pretty decent year passing. 18td to 12int is something I could live with, at the beginning of the season I said i would be happy with a 2:1, but a 3:2 is fine by me. IMO he should start next year, see if he improves after another year at the position, but we should draft someone to develop unless the coaches like Hanie

bearsfan_51
12-29-2008, 10:29 AM
statistically, I think orton had a pretty decent year passing. 18td to 12int is something I could live with, at the beginning of the season I said i would be happy with a 2:1, but a 3:2 is fine by me. IMO he should start next year, see if he improves after another year at the position, but we should draft someone to develop unless the coaches like Hanie

I agree with all of this. My only question is Orton's arm strength, which is really exposed when he attempts throws beyond 20 yards. I just don't think our offense will be better than average with such a limited quarterback on our team. That puts a lot of pressure on an already declining defense, and will probably limit us to the cieling on our team.

It'll be interesting to see what they do with the position.

BeerBaron
12-29-2008, 10:31 AM
statistically, I think orton had a pretty decent year passing. 18td to 12int is something I could live with, at the beginning of the season I said i would be happy with a 2:1, but a 3:2 is fine by me. IMO he should start next year, see if he improves after another year at the position, but we should draft someone to develop unless the coaches like Hanie

Which I've heard that they do. But I'm not sure I'd be confident going into next season with Hanie as our #2 QB. I'd still like to find a veteran backup just for a year or two whos ISNT Rexy.

bearfan
12-29-2008, 10:51 AM
Which I've heard that they do. But I'm not sure I'd be confident going into next season with Hanie as our #2 QB. I'd still like to find a veteran backup just for a year or two whos ISNT Rexy.

Yep, a veteran Qb would be ideal. Look at how Griese helped out Orton. I hope that whoever we have as our project QB gets the same treatment that Orton got: time to develop and learn.

And 51' agreed. Orton definantly needs to work on the deep ball, but I think that the Bears offense will always be limited by QB play. Everyone wants a stud QB, but we havent had one, so I am content with our guy who probably would have had 20+ TDs if he hadnt been injured.

BeerBaron
12-29-2008, 11:01 AM
Yep, a veteran Qb would be ideal. Look at how Griese helped out Orton. I hope that whoever we have as our project QB gets the same treatment that Orton got: time to develop and learn.

And 51' agreed. Orton definantly needs to work on the deep ball, but I think that the Bears offense will always be limited by QB play. Everyone wants a stud QB, but we havent had one, so I am content with our guy who probably would have had 20+ TDs if he hadnt been injured.

Keep this in mind too. Given where it is we play every year, we have 6-10 games every year that can be in ****** winter weather. Some of our 8 home games, the game at GB, and then add in any out of division games at places like NY, Philly, Pittsburgh, NE, etc. With that, its always going to be real hard to develop a great passing attack.

Granted, the Packers figured it out for a good decade and a half with Favre but I think thats going to be a little hard for us to pull off given our history of developing QBs

Smokey Joe
12-29-2008, 12:02 PM
Okay, so our opponents for next season (not a schedule, just list of opponents):

Cardinals (H)
49ers (A)
Rams (H)
Seahawks (A)
Browns (H)
Ravens (A)
Steelers (H)
Bengals (A)
Packers (H)
Packers (A)
Vikings (H)
Vikings (A)
Lions (H)
Lions (A)
Eagles (H)
Falcons (A)

I'd say, as of right now, there are at least 8-10 games we should or will have a chance to win. The other 6-8 will be pretty tough.

regoob2
12-29-2008, 12:05 PM
Okay, so our opponents for next season (not a schedule, just list of opponents):

Cardinals (H)
49ers (A)
Rams (H)
Seahawks (A)
Browns (H)
Ravens (A)
Steelers (H)
Bengals (A)
Packers (H)
Packers (A)
Vikings (H)
Vikings (A)
Lions (H)
Lions (A)
Eagles (H)
Falcons (A)

I'd say, as of right now, there are at least 8-10 games we should or will have a chance to win. The other 6-8 will be pretty tough.
I think every one of those games are winnable. The only one I dont think we have a chance in is the Steelers.

Monomach
12-29-2008, 01:08 PM
That's not bad at all. We should easily start the season off anywhere from 6-0 to 4-2. For a couple months, everyone's going to be talking about how the Bears really turned things around until we get past the cream puffs and drop our pants for the Steelers. I expect that game to be embarrassing.

BeerBaron
12-29-2008, 01:20 PM
I ran through that schedule, gave us the ones I think we should win and split the hard ones 50/50 and I came out with a 10-6 or 11-5. Had us go .500 against the Vikes and Pack and 2-0 against the lions for a 4-2 in the division, just like this year.

Should be bad as long as we, yanno, actually manage to improve a little in our problem areas.

shady00
12-29-2008, 05:45 PM
Steelers at home will be fun

Race for the Heisman
12-29-2008, 07:05 PM
Just curious, considering the conditions and whatnot, where does everyone stand on having a running quarterback in Chicago? Obviously this isn't college but have someone who could pick up four or so when our receivers can't create separation would be nice. This is way too early but picking of hometown guy Mike Kafka from Northwestern next year to groom just seems like a nice idea. I'll probably end up doing that in Madden now...

I can't figure out whether the 2010 draft is going to be amazing or really ******.

BeerBaron
12-29-2008, 07:07 PM
Just curious, considering the conditions and whatnot, where does everyone stand on having a running quarterback in Chicago? Obviously this isn't college but have someone who could pick up four or so when our receivers can't create separation would be nice. This is way too early but picking of hometown guy Mike Kafka from Northwestern next year to groom just seems like a nice idea. I'll probably end up doing that in Madden now...

I can't figure out whether the 2010 draft is going to be amazing or really ******.

"Running QBs" don't make it in the NFL. If your an NFL QB, you had better learn quickly to be a pass first type of guy or you won't hack it and they'll be asking you to move to WR.

The QBs in the the league best known for scrambling are guys who throw the ball well and just so happen to also be athletic enough to run.

Having that added dimension where your QB can just take off and pick up a chunk of yards or a key first down by running is nice, but I wouldn't trade 1% of their throwing ability for it.

Race for the Heisman
12-29-2008, 07:14 PM
"Running QBs" don't make it in the NFL. If your an NFL QB, you had better learn quickly to be a pass first type of guy or you won't hack it and they'll be asking you to move to WR.

The QBs in the the league best known for scrambling are guys who throw the ball well and just so happen to also be athletic enough to run.

Having that added dimension where your QB can just take off and pick up a chunk of yards or a key first down by running is nice, but I wouldn't trade 1% of their throwing ability for it.

I don't mean Michael Vick, I just meant more than Kyle Orton or what we have. And not even one percent? Come on, its not like what we've got is so good one percent would make a difference (although you could argue that means they need everything they have).

bearsfan_51
12-29-2008, 07:15 PM
I like quarterbacks that can move, but I want one that can run a normal offense. A guy like Donovan McNabb, Steve Young, or Tony Romo would suit me just fine. Michael Vick? Eh...

BUSTKUNTLAWL
12-29-2008, 07:38 PM
edit - I was going to ask about our cap room, but saw the stickied thread.

There are some interesting free agents out there this year. I would personally love Vernon Carey to replace Tait at RT.

pellepelle_10
12-29-2008, 10:39 PM
I agree with all of this. My only question is Orton's arm strength, which is really exposed when he attempts throws beyond 20 yards. I just don't think our offense will be better than average with such a limited quarterback on our team. That puts a lot of pressure on an already declining defense, and will probably limit us to the cieling on our team.

It'll be interesting to see what they do with the position.

Bears..I'm not sure if the problem is his armstrength as much as it is his accuracy. I've seen him thread the needle a few times to Olsen up the middle. When his leg is into it he has some zip in his throw. I do DEFINITELY question his accuracy though. His accuracy is awful past 15yds. Countless longballs to Hester, and Booker he missed on over and over and OVER again. I literally stopped counting his poor throws to them. I can see what you're thinking if you're speaking about several of the bombs to Hester being under thrown but I can think of several he overthrew Hester and Booker also. His timing is way off. Pep Hamilton needs to have extensive sessions this offseason with his longballs. It should be a must.

pellepelle_10
12-29-2008, 10:43 PM
I like quarterbacks that can move, but I want one that can run a normal offense. A guy like Donovan McNabb, Steve Young, or Tony Romo would suit me just fine. Michael Vick? Eh...

51 - I agree 100% with you on this one. Just firing out a question. If McNabb is avail would you be on board for us bringing him in? Just asking. lol

pellepelle_10
12-29-2008, 10:44 PM
edit - I was going to ask about our cap room, but saw the stickied thread.

There are some interesting free agents out there this year. I would personally love Vernon Carey to replace Tait at RT.

I'd definitely agree to that one. I was saying the same thing myself.

BeerBaron
12-29-2008, 11:01 PM
51 - I agree 100% with you on this one. Just firing out a question. If McNabb is avail would you be on board for us bringing him in? Just asking. lol

I know your not asking me, but i wouldn't touch him. I have trouble putting into words the problem I have with him, but saying he doesn't have the stomach for the game is the closest I can get.

You know that face Lovie has when we're getting blown out by someone? McNabb has something similiar....that sort of clueless, in a daze look when things aren't going right.

I'm hoping he continues to do well enough that Philly keeps him because I'd rather not deal with him here. Like, Philly fans are among sports worst and they let him have it quite often, sometimes its deserved.

Look at the way we treat Rexy. As soon as he hits the field every Bears fan is just like....ugh.....here goes any chance of winning. McNabb doesn't strike me as having the stomach to deal with that.

pellepelle_10
12-29-2008, 11:25 PM
I know your not asking me, but i wouldn't touch him. I have trouble putting into words the problem I have with him, but saying he doesn't have the stomach for the game is the closest I can get.

No worries Beer. Feel free to comment man! lol

You know..as much as I'd like to believe it he goes out there and proves otherwise. As soon as he's tested he comes out firing. If he leaves Philly something tells me he's going to play with a vengence. I could be wrong. Personally I think with the right team he could have a career year. He's not over the hill yet. I think he has another couple solid years left in him IF he's on the right team with a good supporting cast.


You know that face Lovie has when we're getting blown out by someone? McNabb has something similiar....that sort of clueless, in a daze look when things aren't going right.

lol..the whole "someone just slapped the hell out of me" look. I know what you mean. Hey it could be Bobby Wade who never wipes that stupid grin off of his face even though he's just fumbled his 2nd punt of the game or dropped a key pass.


I'm hoping he continues to do well enough that Philly keeps him because I'd rather not deal with him here. Like, Philly fans are among sports worst and they let him have it quite often, sometimes its deserved.

For as many times as Philly fans have ripped him they've praised him. Like now they're praising him. When they lose they'll ask for his head. You've stated it correctly when you said Philly fans are some of the worst. All quarterbacks have had their dogdays. Look at Romo. He can't find away out of the crapper if it killed him.


Look at the way we treat Rexy. As soon as he hits the field every Bears fan is just like....ugh.....here goes any chance of winning. McNabb doesn't strike me as having the stomach to deal with that.

If he can take his abuse in Philly I think here will be childs play personally. We're talking about the state where they threw ice balls at Santa Claus during halftime...lol! He'd survive here fine. My only concern would be if we did make an attempt at McNabb what would happen with Orton. It would definitely stagnate his progression. This could blow up in our face later down the road.

Smokey Joe
12-29-2008, 11:44 PM
I would love Matt Cassel... He's a pass first guy with good running ability. I think he's gonna make a fine QB where ever he winds up.

Race for the Heisman
12-30-2008, 12:11 AM
Personally, I would hate to see us pay McNabb.

MidwayMonster31
12-30-2008, 12:51 AM
I have a hard time believing that Philly would let McNabb walk, especially with how well he played after getting benched.

awfullyquiet
12-30-2008, 05:49 AM
I will absolutely tell you this... every single person who knows anything knows this...

Orton has a great arm. not i'm taking your head off cutler style, but, strong. Very strong. The problem is is 50% the inability for any receiver to actually catch the ball, the other 50% is his inability to place it well. I mean, if you've seen him practice ever... he can throw it 70 yards without blinking. but yes, that's not a good indication of usable arm strength, but it's certainly saying, the guy can throw it deep. He's not chad 'noodle arm' pennington.

BeerBaron
12-30-2008, 10:35 AM
I will absolutely tell you this... every single person who knows anything knows this...

Orton has a great arm. not i'm taking your head off cutler style, but, strong. Very strong. The problem is is 50% the inability for any receiver to actually catch the ball, the other 50% is his inability to place it well. I mean, if you've seen him practice ever... he can throw it 70 yards without blinking. but yes, that's not a good indication of usable arm strength, but it's certainly saying, the guy can throw it deep. He's not chad 'noodle arm' pennington.

Well, I've been saying noodle-arm in reference to the lack of "usable arm strength" as you called it.

I guarantee that any NFL QB (with the exception of maybe Pennington) can go out and rocket the ball 60-70 yards down the field. Remember those QB competitions they always do? I remember supposed "weaker armed guys" like Jeff Garcia and Jake Delhomme throwing just as far as guys with supposed strong arms in the distance throw. But if you wanted a guy to actually throw it through the air 50+ yards in a game, you probably wouldn't take one of those guys over a guy with a cannon like Cutler or even Russell. They've got the "usable arm strength" that Orton lacks.

Gay Ork Wang
12-30-2008, 11:24 AM
correct me if im wrong but imo it was like this

to start the season he had some problems with the deepball

then maybe in the philly game or after that he hit his stride and basically hit everything, long balls or not until the injury.

after the injury he started to mess up his throws again.

so i really want to see another season when he knows whats going on without the injury and see if its going to be like the good weeks liked against the vikings at home or like against the vikings away. the 2 real problems i see at the moment are, that he A. stares down his receivers and B. he holds on to the ball too long sometimes. I believe part of both is the fact that our receivers dont get alot of seperation, thats why forte has so many receptions. so i wanna first see another season with him before i make assumptions. id be really disappointed if we sign a FA to start over Orton

BeerBaron
12-30-2008, 11:34 AM
A thing that also might help him is getting all of the first team reps throughout training camp and in the preseason. We know he's going to be our full time starter, so hopefully all that extra work will help him out.

bearfan
12-30-2008, 11:37 AM
Hopefully Orton works hard this offseason with Hamilton and the recievers. He was definantly not the problem with the team, he just needs to tweak a few things and I think he could be a pretty decent QB in the league.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2008, 12:28 PM
Not surprisingly Jerry Angelo brought the lumber today, saying that Kyle Orton still has more to prove (so probably no extension), they will look to bring in competition, that other highly paid veterans did not perform this year, and that he wasn't satisfied with Bob Babich.

And it sounds like Rod Marinelli will be on the staff in some capacity, perhaps as defensive coordinator.

k0ng
12-30-2008, 01:15 PM
Not surprisingly Jerry Angelo brought the lumber today, saying that Kyle Orton still has more to prove (so probably no extension), they will look to bring in competition, that other highly paid veterans did not perform this year, and that he wasn't satisfied with Bob Babich.

And it sounds like Rod Marinelli will be on the staff in some capacity, perhaps as defensive coordinator.

Nothing to surprising there. Babich seems lost and I believe most of our defensive problems start with him. I'd be ok with Marinelli.

BeerBaron
12-30-2008, 02:06 PM
I'm not sure I want Marinelli as DC. He has no experience in that position going straight from Tampa DL coach to Detroit HC.

I'd take him on as DL coach/assitant HC as has been talked about before but I'd rather see if we can find someone experienced in working with the entire defense as strict DC.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2008, 02:31 PM
I'm sure Marinelli has a full understanding of the defense, and is on the same page as Lovie. If that's the direction they want to go I'd be fine with it. He's certainly more qualified than Babich.

Smokey Joe
12-30-2008, 02:52 PM
Not surprisingly Jerry Angelo brought the lumber today, saying that Kyle Orton still has more to prove (so probably no extension), they will look to bring in competition, that other highly paid veterans did not perform this year, and that he wasn't satisfied with Bob Babich.

And it sounds like Rod Marinelli will be on the staff in some capacity, perhaps as defensive coordinator.
I think Babich is as good as gone, at least as the DC. We can deal with a middle of the pack O and Ron Turner because offense isn't suppossed to be our game, but when the D turns south, thats when there's gonna be change. Even if not as DC, Mirinelli will likely be on the coaching staff next season in some capacity. I know some people don't think Mirinelli as DC is a good idea, but honestly, how much worse can he be then Babich?

Sounds like Vasher's on the hot seat. JA made it clear he was happy with Urlacher, and that Harris improved a lot as the season went on. So that leaves Vasher, Tillman, and Hester. Vasher might actually be more of a possible cut then I originally though.

As for QB, I think it's safe to say Grossman will be gone, and that we will likely either sign Collins or Garcia, or trade a late round pick for a cheap vet.

regoob2
12-30-2008, 02:54 PM
Not surprisingly Jerry Angelo brought the lumber today, saying that Kyle Orton still has more to prove (so probably no extension), they will look to bring in competition, that other highly paid veterans did not perform this year, and that he wasn't satisfied with Bob Babich.

And it sounds like Rod Marinelli will be on the staff in some capacity, perhaps as defensive coordinator.I love that he said that. He actually said we're all saying.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2008, 03:08 PM
I'm a bigger Jerry Angelo fan than anyone else on the team/organization, although this is news to nobody that has been here that long.

I think Garcia would just as soon retire before taking a backup spot. Toonster's suggestion of Alex Smith actually isn't that bad. His best season came under Norv Turner, brother of Ron.

Smokey Joe
12-30-2008, 03:12 PM
I'm not sure Alex Smith is a guy we'd be looking for. It sounded more to me that we are looking for a solid vet who can help the learning process for probably Hanie.

Race for the Heisman
12-30-2008, 03:15 PM
I'm a bigger Jerry Angelo fan than anyone else on the team/organization, although this is news to nobody that has been here that long.

I think Garcia would just as soon retire before taking a backup spot. Toonster's suggestion of Alex Smith actually isn't that bad. His best season came under Norv Turner, brother of Ron.

I hope you didn't seriously compare Ron Turner to Norv Turner...

regoob2
12-30-2008, 03:18 PM
I'm a bigger Jerry Angelo fan than anyone else on the team/organization, although this is news to nobody that has been here that long.

I think Garcia would just as soon retire before taking a backup spot. Toonster's suggestion of Alex Smith actually isn't that bad. His best season came under Norv Turner, brother of Ron.
Alex has the physical tools. He would be a good backup and would be worth developing.

regoob2
12-30-2008, 03:19 PM
I'm not sure Alex Smith is a guy we'd be looking for. It sounded more to me that we are looking for a solid vet who can help the learning process for probably Hanie.Orton can do that, so can the coaching staff.

Race for the Heisman
12-30-2008, 03:39 PM
This is probably gonna get shot down, but what about Kyle Boller? He's probably get the veteran back-up role pretty well fletched out by now and I've heard he worked really well with Troy Smith and I would guess he's been helping Flacco, too. I think he's out of Baltimore after this season, and if he still thinks he can compete Chicago is a tempting choice.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2008, 03:48 PM
I've always considered the player/mentor role to be complete ********. You have a coaching staff for a reason. If you want to hire a vet to mentor your players, just hire him as quarterback coach. If we use a roster spot on a player I want someone that can actually play.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2008, 03:50 PM
I hope you didn't seriously compare Ron Turner to Norv Turner...

Well they are related and run quazi similar offenses. Norv Turner likes to go downfield more often, but there are similarities.

Smokey Joe
12-30-2008, 04:09 PM
Two free agent WR's we should consider: Bryant Johnson and Mark Clayton. Neither are all that special, but have potential and could be solid 4th receiver. Neither will cost a lot, and the upside is much greater then the downside with these 2.

regoob2
12-30-2008, 04:13 PM
Two free agent WR's we should consider: Bryant Johnson and Mark Clayton. Neither are all that special, but have potential and could be solid 4th receiver. Neither will cost a lot, and the upside is much greater then the downside with these 2.Bryant Johnson would be a good fit imo. Did we look at him last off season?

Race for the Heisman
12-30-2008, 04:14 PM
Well they are related and run quazi similar offenses. Norv Turner likes to go downfield more often, but there are similarities.

Maybe, but I think the gulf in ability between the two is much greater than any similarities.

Geo
12-30-2008, 05:27 PM
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/NFC/NFC+North/Chicago/Features/2008/arkush123008.htm

Bears dismiss DB coach Wilks

By PFW staff
Dec. 30, 2008

The Bears announced Tuesday afternoon that they have relieved DB coach Steven Wilks of his duties. Wilks joined the Bears prior to the 2006 season. In his three seasons on the job, the Bears' defensive backs combined for 42 interceptions and 19 forced fumbles. But the team's secondary was a major disappointment this season, as the Bears ranked 30th in passing yards allowed.

Team insiders would not be surprised if a few more Bears assistant coaches are given their walking papers in the coming days.

BeerBaron
12-30-2008, 06:03 PM
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/NFC/NFC+North/Chicago/Features/2008/arkush123008.htm

huh.....thats kind of sad because I really don't blame the secondary for all of our pass D problems.

You can have the best pro bowl secondary there is but without pass rush, they're going to struggle.

Smokey Joe
12-30-2008, 07:18 PM
Wilks was decent, but our safety play was terrible this year, and there was a lot of confusion at times between the DB's during games as well.

I'd also like to see Bob Babich, Brick Haley (DL coach), and Darryl Drake (WR coach) get their walking papers, as well as anyone else JA sees fit.

pellepelle_10
12-31-2008, 12:33 AM
Not surprisingly Jerry Angelo brought the lumber today, saying that Kyle Orton still has more to prove (so probably no extension), they will look to bring in competition, that other highly paid veterans did not perform this year, and that he wasn't satisfied with Bob Babich.

And it sounds like Rod Marinelli will be on the staff in some capacity, perhaps as defensive coordinator.

Is there something I don't know? lol

Smokey Joe
01-02-2009, 10:50 AM
I guess many team sources are stating that Vasher will likely be cut (makes sense, probably came in overweight and then he played like ****). Also, there's a lot of stuff flying around about Tillman getting moved to FS if we can sign a FA or draft someone. This one only makes sense to me if we make a change in the scheme.

Gay Ork Wang
01-02-2009, 10:55 AM
i dont like it one bit :/

bearfan
01-02-2009, 10:57 AM
Tillman would be one high paid saftey...

Smokey Joe
01-02-2009, 10:57 AM
I really don't mind cutting Vasher. Right now, all signs point to his gain in weight him being lazy, and he played like **** during the season. Also, a move like that would make a statement to the team.

bearfan
01-02-2009, 11:01 AM
True, and we would still be good at CB: Tillman, Corey G., McBride, Bowman as 4th and D.Manning at nickle.

I dont like Tillman being moved to saftey.

Smokey Joe
01-02-2009, 11:11 AM
I'm not a big fan of moving Tillman to FS either, but if we change up our scheme a bit (which seems like a legit possibility), Tillman might be better off at FS.

bearsfan_51
01-02-2009, 11:37 AM
Tillman would be a highly paid safety, but if it helps the team the most, so be it. It's really a moot point until the draft anyway. Maybe Taylor Mays will drop a bit and solve all of our problems.

Smokey Joe
01-02-2009, 11:38 AM
Tillman would be a highly paid safety, but if it helps the team the most, so be it. It's really a moot point until the draft anyway. Maybe Taylor Mays will drop a bit and solve all of our problems.
I doubt that. Even though he wasn't a dominant college player, his freakish physical ability is gonna get him drafted in the top 10.

MidwayMonster31
01-02-2009, 12:29 PM
Moving Tillman to free safety will probably be the best thing long-term. I think that JA can find a cornerback in the later rounds that will work well. Graham has done enough to be able to start.

regoob2
01-02-2009, 01:01 PM
Maybe Graham and Vasher would start.

Monomach
01-02-2009, 02:40 PM
Marinelli is interviewing today: http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2009/01/hot_rod_marinelli_at_halas_hal.html

regoob2
01-02-2009, 02:47 PM
Maybe he'll be our new DBs coach. lol.

BeerBaron
01-02-2009, 04:40 PM
Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Line I would predict.

neko4
01-02-2009, 07:12 PM
Hey just seeing if anyone would like to join the new Forum Mock.
Right now nobody has signed up to be the GM of da Bears and there is also an expansion team in this forum mock. So go check it out. Signups are scheduled to end Sunday night.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28445

Smokey Joe
01-02-2009, 10:28 PM
If we hire Marinelli as our DLine coach/Assistant HC (which I wanted in the first place), it would likely mean that Babich will stay as DC. I figure if we wanted to make a change at coordinator, we'd first get the new DC before we made hired new assistant coaches.

regoob2
01-02-2009, 10:38 PM
If we hire Marinelli as our DLine coach/Assistant HC (which I wanted in the first place), it would likely mean that Babich will stay as DC. I figure if we wanted to make a change at coordinator, we'd first get the new DC before we made hired new assistant coaches.
He'd be the assistant head coach but not the defensive coordinator??

Smokey Joe
01-02-2009, 10:44 PM
He'd be the assistant head coach but not the defensive coordinator??
A lot of high profiled position coaches get the title of assistant HC. It's pretty much just a title, as every coach is an assistant to the HC, but I guess he has bragging rights over every other assistant coach that's not a coordinator.

bearsfan_51
01-02-2009, 11:58 PM
And he'd get paid more, which is fine considering he's one of the best position coaches in the NFL.

shady00
01-03-2009, 04:03 AM
Maybe Taylor Mays will drop a bit and solve all of our problems.
That's what I've been hoping but it keeps seeming more and more unlikely.

BeerBaron
01-03-2009, 02:42 PM
I'm still in favor of bringing in Marinelli as the DL/Asst Coach. Like its been said, he's a great position coach and our d-line needs to serious help. He coached quite a few good lines in Tampa and if he can get anything out of what we currently have, it'd be a big plus.

Plus, if we keep Babich and the defense still struggles next year, we could start giving Marinellli some more power over the defense and see what he could do as a coordinator (which he's never been in the NFL.)

SFbear
01-03-2009, 02:51 PM
I'm still in favor of bringing in Marinelli as the DL/Asst Coach. Like its been said, he's a great position coach and our d-line needs to serious help. He coached quite a few good lines in Tampa and if he can get anything out of what we currently have, it'd be a big plus.

Plus, if we keep Babich and the defense still struggles next year, we could start giving Marinellli some more power over the defense and see what he could do as a coordinator (which he's never been in the NFL.)

If we keep Babich and the D still struggles, then Lovie gets the boot. You can't keep putting your reputation on the line to help your friends, watch them fail over and over again, and not expect it to bite you in the ass.

bearsfan_51
01-03-2009, 03:01 PM
If we keep Babich and the D still struggles, then Lovie gets the boot. You can't keep putting your reputation on the line to help your friends, watch them fail over and over again, and not expect it to bite you in the ass.

I certainly hope that's the case, but you never know. If we fired Lovie after next year he'd still be on the books for 10 million dollars. Do you see the McCaskey's paying that for nothing?

Maybe the Vasher situation will be a precursor for others.

pellepelle_10
01-03-2009, 06:06 PM
I certainly hope that's the case, but you never know. If we fired Lovie after next year he'd still be on the books for 10 million dollars. Do you see the McCaskey's paying that for nothing?

Maybe the Vasher situation will be a precursor for others.

I have a feeling we could see something come up on the Vasher situation. Something tells me Angelo was directly targeting him as one of those players not living up to expectations.

Smokey Joe
01-05-2009, 05:54 PM
Brick Haley, our DLine coach, is headed to LSU to coach DLine there. So, chances of Marinelli as our DLine and Assistant HC just increased some.

Gay Ork Wang
01-05-2009, 07:44 PM
Seems like Seattle wants Marinelli too to be the DC

BeerBaron
01-05-2009, 07:47 PM
Seems like Seattle wants Marinelli too to be the DC

If they want a guy with no coordinating experience to be the DC, they can have him. Not worth a fight over our d-line coach......

shady00
01-06-2009, 04:21 PM
Carol Slezak of the Sun-Times speculates we could look to sign Vick

I'm actually a fan of his, but it's obviously not going to happen. I'd love to have his speed, but it's not worth the negative publicity and drama it would bring to the team.

BeerBaron
01-06-2009, 04:31 PM
Carol Slezak of the Sun-Times speculates we could look to sign Vick

I'm actually a fan of his, but it's obviously not going to happen. I'd love to have his speed, but it's not worth the negative publicity and drama it would bring to the team.

Exactly. I just don't see Vick making it back to the NFL.....he's had at least 2 years off for his talents to dull and he's just going to be such a huge distraction that I just can't see any team bringing him back for all he's worth.

But of course now that I've said that, someone will sign him....

Gay Ork Wang
01-06-2009, 05:23 PM
yea, not gonna happen

shady00
01-06-2009, 08:14 PM
Then again, anything is possible when Jerry Jones and Al Davis are running teams.

Gay Ork Wang
01-06-2009, 08:17 PM
i mean not gonna happen in chicago

shady00
01-06-2009, 08:19 PM
i mean not gonna happen in chicago
True. But I can still dream about the Vick/Hester option

Smokey Joe
01-06-2009, 08:48 PM
Carol Slezak of the Sun-Times speculates we could look to sign Vick

I'm actually a fan of his, but it's obviously not going to happen. I'd love to have his speed, but it's not worth the negative publicity and drama it would bring to the team.
Carol Slezak is about as worthless of a writer there is. Don't even bother reading her dribble.

Gay Ork Wang
01-07-2009, 04:13 PM
The Bears on Tuesday released linebackers coach Lloyd Lee.
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=5514
Babich next pls

Race for the Heisman
01-07-2009, 04:26 PM
Angelo's really cleaning house. I hope this isn't mostly knee-jerk in an effort to save his job. I mean, I know most of the units these guys coach haven't been great, but I still have some doubts.

BeerBaron
01-07-2009, 04:52 PM
Watch us bring in Barry to coach the LBs.

Gay Ork Wang
01-07-2009, 04:57 PM
Barry who????

SFbear
01-07-2009, 05:19 PM
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=5514
Babich next pls

Could mean Babich is getting demoted to linebackers coach. Or maybe Marinelli is requesting to bring his son in law Barry with him. Yay for nepotism!

Gay Ork Wang
01-08-2009, 08:08 AM
http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2009/01/hot_rod_contrary_to_report_bea.html

Rod Marinelli may indeed wind up coming to the Bears in some capacity, one that would likely include him being in charge of the defensive line.

But contrary to a published report, no contract offer has been made to the deposed Detroit Lions coach by the Bears. Multiple sources with knowledge of the situation strongly denied any such offer has been made to Marinelli, who was at Halas Hall to meet with coach Lovie Smith last Friday. Marinelli interviewed for a job as the Seattle Seahawks defensive coordinator on Monday.

No other teams are known to be in pursuit of Marinelli but that doesn't mean there is not more interest out there for him.

Smokey Joe
01-08-2009, 09:13 PM
I think when it's all said and done, we'll see Marinelli as our DLine and assistant HC, and Joe Barry as our LB coach. I actually wouldn't mind that. They sucked in Detroit, but that's to be expected when you got such a ****** front office doing everything it can to hinder you almost. Both have had previous success outside of the Lions, so I think it's worth the shot.

bearsfan_51
01-08-2009, 09:52 PM
Yeah I don't think this is nepotism. Marinelli and Barry have both proved up to the job at those respective positions in Tampa. Failing as head coaches and coordinators is really unrelated in my mind.

VoteLynnSwan
01-09-2009, 12:00 AM
no one can possibly be expected to be successful in Detroit, that situation is simply not conducive to anything but losing.

bearsfan_51
01-09-2009, 01:56 PM
Smokey, you may still get your wish as Daryl Drake (WR coach) is in the running for the OC job at the University of Minnesota. From what I'm hearing (and I've got some inside folks at the U), it's likely either him or former Heisman winner and current Oklahoma QB coach, Josh Heupel. Either would be fine with me.

Personally I'm a fan of Drake. He did a nice job of developing both Berrian and Hester, especially considering what a project Hester is/was. Mark Bradley, on the other hand, was a failure.

Smokey Joe
01-09-2009, 02:18 PM
Smokey, you may still get your wish as Daryl Drake (WR coach) is in the running for the OC job at the University of Minnesota. From what I'm hearing (and I've got some inside folks at the U), it's likely either him or former Heisman winner and current Oklahoma QB coach, Josh Heupel. Either would be fine with me.

Personally I'm a fan of Drake. He did a nice job of developing both Berrian and Hester, especially considering what a project Hester is/was. Mark Bradley, on the other hand, was a failure.
Berrian and Hester have developed, but look at all the failures we've had at receiver since 04. Part of that might be scouting though and overall ****** offense.

bearsfan_51
01-09-2009, 02:20 PM
I don't blame Drake for Moose. We got him when he was already a 10 year vet, and clearly felt like he didn't have to listen to anyone about anything. Other than that, I'm not sure who is left. Mike Hass?

Gay Ork Wang
01-09-2009, 02:29 PM
Rashied "fail at life" Davis

BeerBaron
01-09-2009, 02:30 PM
I don't blame Drake for Moose. We got him when he was already a 10 year vet, and clearly felt like he didn't have to listen to anyone about anything. Other than that, I'm not sure who is left. Mike Hass?

Justin Gage and Bobby Wade both left our offense and mysteriously became serviceable players.

Even Mark Bradley left us and did pretty well in KC, and he didn't even have the benefit of a training camp or anything with them.

regoob2
01-09-2009, 02:30 PM
Davis was a arena league guy who turned into our most talented WR (at one time)

regoob2
01-09-2009, 02:31 PM
Justin Gage and Bobby Wade both left our offense and mysteriously became serviceable players.

Even Mark Bradley left us and did pretty well in KC, and he didn't even have the benefit of a training camp or anything with them.
Gage is the one guy I wish we had.

bearsfan_51
01-09-2009, 02:32 PM
I don't know if Mark Bradley did well in Kansas City or not. He had some catches, but all that requires is an opportunity to have someone throw you the ball.

Bobby Wade is still a piece of crap in my eyes.

I'll grant you Justin Gage though. I don't know why they didn't give him more of a shot.

regoob2
01-09-2009, 02:33 PM
I don't know if Mark Bradley did well in Kansas City or not. He had some catches, but all that requires is an opportunity to have someone throw you the ball.

Bobby Wade is still a piece of crap in my eyes.

I'll grant you Justin Gage though. I don't know why they didn't give him more of a shot.
Gage would be a great fit with Orton at QB.

Gay Ork Wang
01-09-2009, 02:35 PM
Davis was a arena league guy who turned into our most talented WR (at one time)
yea cause he was that good? i dont think so

BeerBaron
01-09-2009, 02:40 PM
Gage would be a great fit with Orton at QB.

Gage as the big possession target on one side, Hester as the speedy deep threat on the other, and Earl Bennett in the slot. Throw in Olsen and Clark and we'd have the makings of a passing game right now....

That is assuming Gage would have been decent like he is with the Titans staying with us.

regoob2
01-09-2009, 03:21 PM
yea cause he was that good? i dont think so
Never said he was THAT good but he was our #1 at the start of the season.

VoteLynnSwan
01-09-2009, 03:37 PM
Justin Gage couldn't catch a cold with us... there's no reason to believe he would have ever turned it around with the Bears.

Smokey Joe
01-09-2009, 03:48 PM
Justin Gage couldn't catch a cold with us... there's no reason to believe he would have ever turned it around with the Bears.
Ever think that coaching was a part in Gage never developing with us but with Tennessee?

Gay Ork Wang
01-09-2009, 08:34 PM
Apparently Mike Hass signed with teh Seahawks! :O

BeerBaron
01-09-2009, 08:37 PM
Apparently Mike Hass signed with teh Seahawks! :O

Probably better for them than the summer league softball players they had playing WR at various points throughout the season due to injury.

Courtney Taylor? Michael Bumpus? Retreading Koren Robinson, Billy McMullen and Keary Colbert?

Yikes......icky. Thats worse than what we've got.....

Gay Ork Wang
01-09-2009, 08:38 PM
just watch him become extremley succesfull

regoob2
01-09-2009, 08:55 PM
Mike Haas sucks. He's not an NFL WR.

bearsfan_51
01-10-2009, 12:28 PM
Nevermind, Josh Heupel is getting the job.

VoteLynnSwan
01-10-2009, 02:19 PM
Ever think that coaching was a part in Gage never developing with us but with Tennessee?

I definitely agree with that... my point was that Justin Gage wasn't a big loss, because he never would have been anything with us anyway. We never would have been able to develop his talents. My point was directed towards those that said they wished we never let go of Gage.

regoob2
01-10-2009, 03:25 PM
I definitely agree with that... my point was that Justin Gage wasn't a big loss, because he never would have been anything with us anyway. We never would have been able to develop his talents. My point was directed towards those that said they wished we never let go of Gage.I agree with what your saying. I wish we could have Gage the way he is playing now.

bearsfan_51
01-10-2009, 03:27 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/01/10/marinelli-reunites-with-smith-in-chicago/

The invisible is coming to Chicago.

regoob2
01-10-2009, 03:30 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/01/10/marinelli-reunites-with-smith-in-chicago/

The invisible is coming to Chicago.Woooooohhhhhh

Smokey Joe
01-10-2009, 03:37 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/01/10/marinelli-reunites-with-smith-in-chicago/

The invisible is coming to Chicago.
Not much surprise.. glad to have him aboard.

Next is probably Joe Barry as Linebackers coach.

Xiomera
01-10-2009, 03:57 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/01/10/marinelli-reunites-with-smith-in-chicago/

The invisible is coming to Chicago.

If anyone wants to start borrowing all my Marinelli sigs, just ask, haha,

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3706/marinellianphilosophyvh1.png

pellepelle_10
01-10-2009, 04:15 PM
seems like he preferred to be a DL coach over a DC. I'm ok with that. I'm glad one of the choices are off the map. This IMO is a good start to the offseason.

Just imposing another question for you guys. What would people think about making a move for a Braylon Edwards? I've been hearing there may be a possibility Cleveland puts him up as trade bait this offseason. Of course there is some concern with the validity of this rumor but I for one would prefer him over any other WR FA and he's young which is good.

regoob2
01-10-2009, 04:35 PM
seems like he preferred to be a DL coach over a DC. I'm ok with that. I'm glad one of the choices are off the map. This IMO is a good start to the offseason.

Just imposing another question for you guys. What would people think about making a move for a Braylon Edwards? I've been hearing there may be a possibility Cleveland puts him up as trade bait this offseason. Of course there is some concern with the validity of this rumor but I for one would prefer him over any other WR FA and he's young which is good.
I dont think he was offered a DC position.

bearsfan_51
01-10-2009, 04:40 PM
I like Braylon, but I don't see it happening.

pellepelle_10
01-10-2009, 04:43 PM
I dont think he was offered a DC position.

I'm not saying he was buddy. I was just pointing out that he preferred being a DL coach. What we offered him I have no clue. *shrugs*

51,

I was just putting another FA or trade bait possibility in the mix. I think if Cleveland dangles him for teams to take at it would be in our best interest to take at someone like him. He fits the mold of what we need here in Chicago.

shady00
01-10-2009, 05:50 PM
Forget Hass, I want Rideau

regoob2
01-10-2009, 06:07 PM
Forget Hass, I want RideauI dont want either. Housh baby!!

bearsfan_51
01-10-2009, 06:17 PM
Joe Barry signed with the Seahawks to be their linebackers coach, which is probably for the best.

Gay Ork Wang
01-10-2009, 08:51 PM
I like it. Teach Mark Anderson more moves as well as playing the rush pls!

toonsterwu
01-10-2009, 08:53 PM
While I liked Braylon coming out, I'm not sure how huge on it right now I'd be. Depends on the cost, as with all things, but his inconsistency, on top of his, attitude, might not be the best fit, despite our need for a top WR. Depends, tho. If it just costs a 2nd, I'd roll the dice probably. Anything more ... that's more debatable.

Gay Ork Wang
01-10-2009, 08:54 PM
id give up our 3rd for Holt maybe even 2nd

toonsterwu
01-10-2009, 08:58 PM
I wouldn't give up the 2nd for Holt. For me, it comes down to, is dealing for Holt going to push us over the top? I'm not sold on that, so I'd hold onto the 2nd. Now, the 3rd, yeah, I'd roll the dice there as well.

Smokey Joe
01-10-2009, 09:01 PM
I think the most the Rams will get for Holt is a conditional 4th.

pellepelle_10
01-11-2009, 05:21 AM
Ever think that coaching was a part in Gage never developing with us but with Tennessee?

I think this was caused due to 2 problems.

1. lack of coaching
2. a quarterback capable of getting him the ball.

I was very happy with both him and Bobby Wade their rookie seasons before Booker left the first time but after that everything went downhill. David Terrell was our top guy and problem child. Both Wade and Gage had nobody to mentor them as they did in Booker during his better years. Everything just fell apart after that. We haven't been able to revive the WR position ever since. I think that our continuous problems at quarterback have just as much to blame as coaching has. I'm really hopeful we can turn around our offense now that we have a capable runningback to take off some of the pressure and an emerging TE in Olsen and productive Desmond Clark.