PDA

View Full Version : 2011 Chicago Bears General Discussion


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26

Gay Ork Wang
12-13-2009, 03:33 PM
i like our WRs. i like Cutler when he has like a little bit of time in the pocket and the WRs run right routes. thats about it

sweetness34
12-13-2009, 10:03 PM
I think this sums up my thoughts on the game:

:(

Just when you think they might gain some momentum and get back to playing good football they suck the life right outta ya and go back to ineptness.

Didn't Lovie say his number one goal is to beat Green Bay when he was first hired? So he can't beat anyone in the league right now and he can't beat a team he guaranteed we would. Green Bay is still a pride game and we **** down our legs. Bye Lovie, enjoy these last three games because they are your last in Chicago...I hope.

Hurricane Ditka
12-13-2009, 11:43 PM
Some of the pieces are in place, but unless there is a change at the top this team isn't going anywhere. There are signs and flashes that the talent is there but this coaching staff simply can not develop it. Given our lack of draft picks in this upcoming we're boned if we don't get some new blood in Halas Hall that can actually make their players mature. It may take a year or two to learn the scheme and be competive again, but it'll take much longer than that if we don't see some heads roll.

Hurricane Ditka
12-13-2009, 11:49 PM
The sky is falling, but not as hard as you think.

bearsfan_51
12-13-2009, 11:55 PM
Yeah I tend to agree with HD. We obviously need a coaching change and that will be coming. Like I said a few weeks back, it's a young and decently talented core that more than anything needs improvement on the lines and in the schemes which are given to them.

BeerBaron
12-14-2009, 12:11 AM
I definitely wouldn't mind an o-line overhaul and not just another reshuffling. I always think that the o-line is a good place to invest FA dollars, especially interior guys. Very few truly special skill position players make it to full blown FA with the way teams lock guys up and with teh franchise tag, but plenty of really quality guards and centers bounce around.

And a new scheme on defense might be nice....Some of our players could fit into some other schemes I think, and it's not like the current one is working anymore.

MidwayMonster31
12-14-2009, 12:31 AM
An O-Line overhaul is necessary, but how they do it may be an issue. Trying to patch up the line with guys who couldn't start for other teams or guys that are on the downside of their careers have gotten us to where we are now.
There should be a better crop of guards in this year's free agent class. We could also draft one, assuming we get coaches who can actually develop offensive talent. There are always good guards around in the 3rd round or even the 4th.
Also, I think Beekman should be the starting center next year.

bearsfan_51
12-14-2009, 12:39 AM
The scheme we run now is such a drastic varient of the old Tampa 2 that it's hard to really know what to call it anyway. The biggest change usually comes on the corners, but Tillman usually plays a fair amount of man anyway, and the rest of the guys are easily replaceable.

bearsfan_51
12-14-2009, 12:53 AM
Through it all I still like the way that Cutler has handled himself. The turnovers make me want to blow my brains out, but I don't see a player with an attitude problem or someone trying to blame other people. I still think we can build an offense around him.

BeerBaron
12-14-2009, 12:55 AM
Through it all I still like the way that Cutler has handled himself. The turnovers make me want to blow my brains out, but I don't see a player with an attitude problem or someone trying to blame other people. I still think we can build an offense around him.

Agreed. And I honestly don't think our receivers are too terrible either. I think it will depend on the coaching headed forward and how they put together an o-line.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
12-14-2009, 01:35 AM
So who should we target? Mike Johnson should be there, along with Kyle Calloway. But with the coaching staff the way it is I see zero turnover on the oline. They cant seem to bench Omyfail and CW has to be in there either at RT or LT.

Im actually kind of comfortable with Afalava at FS and Ive always liked Payne at SS so that can wait. And if anything we should look at veteran receivers.

So whos your BPA for us?

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 03:16 AM
Afalava is our SS i think.

Also another thing about Cutler i like is that he doesnt let the Ints affect him. He is still throwing it and trying to make something happen.

sweetness34
12-14-2009, 12:16 PM
Yeah I tend to agree with HD. We obviously need a coaching change and that will be coming. Like I said a few weeks back, it's a young and decently talented core that more than anything needs improvement on the lines and in the schemes which are given to them.

Oh no doubt. There is talent on this team, we just need someone who can maximize it.

I'm officially on the Brian Billick bandwagon. I want a guy with some fire as well. Our last two coaches have made Tony Dungy look like Mike Ditka.

regoob2
12-14-2009, 12:31 PM
So who should we target? Mike Johnson should be there, along with Kyle Calloway. But with the coaching staff the way it is I see zero turnover on the oline. They cant seem to bench Omyfail and CW has to be in there either at RT or LT.

Im actually kind of comfortable with Afalava at FS and Ive always liked Payne at SS so that can wait. And if anything we should look at veteran receivers.

So whos your BPA for us?
It depends on who we bring in through free agency. I'd be all for Mike Williams WR Syracuse. He's got a ton of talent and players with his problems tend to drop to round 3ish.

I also think NT is a big need.

bearsfan_51
12-14-2009, 12:36 PM
I've always liked Billick too. He or Shanny would be fine with me.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 12:43 PM
I've always liked Billick too. He or Shanny would be fine with me.
how about Mike Zimmer?

BeerBaron
12-14-2009, 01:13 PM
Shanny would be my ideal candidate right now I think.

The issue I have with Billick is that he was a supposed offensive genius in Minny, then came to Baltimore where all he did was make the offense good enough for an all time great defense to win him a championship. He never developed a QB there (Kyle Boller?) and never developed any good recievers (Travis Taylor?)

We definitely need an offensive minded coach I feel because, like it or not, the fortunes of this team for at least the next 2-3 seasons will all depend on Jay Cutler. That's why I like Shanny. He developed Cutler into the franchise QB we saw the last few years, he made Jake Plummer into a pretty good QB for a few years, and he built the offense around Elway that let him play to his strengths late in his career and finally win some rings.

We would just need a strong presence at GM too though because it seems that when Shanny goes unchecked, his drafts start looking awful and the teams fall to mediocrity. So that's why I don't know if it would happen...

critesy
12-14-2009, 02:04 PM
aromashadooooooooo.

auburn fan here, glad to see he got some playing time and made the most of it. :)

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 02:15 PM
aromashadooooooooo.

auburn fan here, glad to see he got some playing time and made the most of it. :)
Coaching staff fails for not playing him earlier

MidwayMonster31
12-14-2009, 02:33 PM
Coaching staff fails for not playing him earlierEspecially when the quarterback has been calling for him since training camp.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
12-14-2009, 04:58 PM
It depends on who we bring in through free agency. I'd be all for Mike Williams WR Syracuse. He's got a ton of talent and players with his problems tend to drop to round 3ish.

I also think NT is a big need.

Eeesh, yeah I bet he'll be there. Great talent but we really have to hit on the picks we have and hes dangerous to say the least.

Atleast T.O. gave SF a couple years of Terrell Owens first.

Hurricane Ditka
12-14-2009, 05:14 PM
For once I'm not going to be calling for a major overhaul on the offensive line. There needs to be some continuity, just getting used to playing with one another and playing with Jay Cutler the unit will improve. Chris Williams is going to get his shot at being our left tackle, Kruetz and Garza aren't being forced out the door, and Schaffer/Omiyale could provide good competition for the right tackle spot. With Beekman the heir apparent at Center, we're still trying to fill the void Ruben Brown left at left guard. Realistically I'd say we're looking at a mid-level free agent signing or a guy like Lance Louis getting a shot.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 06:29 PM
We waived June. Lolzer

BeerBaron
12-14-2009, 08:27 PM
For once I'm not going to be calling for a major overhaul on the offensive line. There needs to be some continuity, just getting used to playing with one another and playing with Jay Cutler the unit will improve. Chris Williams is going to get his shot at being our left tackle, Kruetz and Garza aren't being forced out the door, and Schaffer/Omiyale could provide good competition for the right tackle spot. With Beekman the heir apparent at Center, we're still trying to fill the void Ruben Brown left at left guard. Realistically I'd say we're looking at a mid-level free agent signing or a guy like Lance Louis getting a shot.

I think we could do better than a mid-level guy for a FA LG. I'd call Omiyale a mid-level guy...I'd love to take a shot at Logan Mankins. The Pats might just have to let him hit the market with other key players like Wilfork hitting FA too. I think they'll let the easier to replace G go while tagging or resigning the harder to find NT.

A future line of Williams-Mankins-Beekman-Omiyele/Rookie/FA(?)/Shaffer might not be too awful if we get a coach in who can develop. I think some of the guys we have and the ones we could bring in might benefit from a ZBS.

Smokey Joe
12-14-2009, 11:40 PM
You can tell Im an offensive lineman with this idea...

Use basically all of our money on both Logan Mankins and Jahri Evans in the offseason. Our Oline is ****. Garza is trash, Omayile is trash and at best a backup tackle in the ZBS, Shaffer is a backup at best, Pace is done, Kreutz has really aged fast but has not had any help from the guard spots since 2006, and the jury is still out on Williams and Beekman.

The offensive line is the biggest weakness on the offensive right now. Add in two massive upgrades at the guard spots with Mankins and Evans, and you make things a lot easier for Forte and Cutler. Williams-Mankins-Kreutz-Evans-Shaffer/Omiyale/FA/Draftee

Then, focus on defense in the draft. A true no. 1 WR can wait until after next year. Give Cutler some time and a run game, and the lack of a true no. 1 will go relatively unnnoitced.

However, if we do get Shannahan as HC, you probably dont need to spend that money on the two guards. Shannahan has consistently built great offensive lines without much money put into the Oline.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
12-15-2009, 01:57 AM
How do you think Micah Johnson would fit in our defense? I love him, personally. Hes on my short list with our 3rd rounder (if he lasts that long, I feel hes going to blow up the combine).

In my Madden soaked brain Id move Url to SLB and put Johnson in the middle. Url would take less of a pounding and would completly erase TEs leaving Johnson and Briggs to eat up tackles. Thoughts?

Monomach
12-15-2009, 03:03 AM
aromashadooooooooo.

auburn fan here, glad to see he got some playing time and made the most of it. :)

He looks like a natural ball-catcher. It's refreshing to see that from a Bear.

Long live Aromashabadabbadoo. Or Aromashamalamadingdong. Or whatever. Imma work on the whole nickname thing just in case Lovie doesn't go all ******** and make him inactive next week.

Gay Ork Wang
12-15-2009, 03:10 AM
I seriously seriously hope Marshall is let go and wants to play with Cutler again

Monomach
12-15-2009, 03:43 AM
I seriously seriously hope Marshall is let go and wants to play with Cutler again

Marshall, Aromashamalamadingdong, Knox, and Olsen on the field at the same time make me http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/4549/jizzinmypants14.jpg

The receivers would draw enough coverage that Olsen would even be open once in a while. :eek:

Gay Ork Wang
12-15-2009, 03:49 AM
Id be incredibly happy. only way id be happy if we dont fire Turner and smith

Monomach
12-16-2009, 02:10 AM
Richie Incognito was released by the Rams for being an insane person.

DO WANT.

Gay Ork Wang
12-16-2009, 04:12 AM
Richie Incognito was released by the Rams for being an insane person.

DO WANT.
We already have Pace. That turned out well.

But then again, cant be worse than Crappy guard.

BeerBaron
12-16-2009, 08:29 AM
Just read an article about how well Leonard Weaver is doing with the Eagles....I know several of us really wanted him last year. Jason McKie is about a worthless waste of a roster spot while Weaver is averaging 5.5 ypc as a FB and has helped the Eagles run game a lot with Westbrook out....

But no, we sign a lousy G/T who has been benched....good going JA.

regoob2
12-16-2009, 01:51 PM
We already have Pace. That turned out well.

But then again, cant be worse than Crappy guard.

Incognito is 26 though. Also ran a 4.84. I like him.

SFbear
12-16-2009, 01:54 PM
Just read an article about how well Leonard Weaver is doing with the Eagles....I know several of us really wanted him last year. Jason McKie is about a worthless waste of a roster spot while Weaver is averaging 5.5 ypc as a FB and has helped the Eagles run game a lot with Westbrook out....

But no, we sign a lousy G/T who has been benched....good going JA.

My question is how did Mckie beat out Lousaka Polite when he was here. Polite is beasting it down in Miami play after play and I haven't seen McKie do a single positive thing for us.

MidwayMonster31
12-16-2009, 03:45 PM
My question is how did Mckie beat out Lousaka Polite when he was here. Polite is beasting it down in Miami play after play and I haven't seen McKie do a single positive thing for us.A player on offense that got cut, or passed on, by the Bears does well afterwards. What else is new?

bearsfan_51
12-16-2009, 03:58 PM
A player on offense that got cut, or passed on, by the Bears does well afterwards. What else is new?
Cedric Benson and......

I guess maybe Orton, but it's not like we didn't get anything in return.

regoob2
12-16-2009, 04:56 PM
Justin Gage and Moose were also far more productive. Mainly just offensive players.......... Cough Ron Turner cough

BeerBaron
12-16-2009, 06:35 PM
Gage, Bobby Wade, Berrian, Orton, Benson, Mark Bradley, Benson and Thomas Jones have all gone on to do better with their current teams than they did here....

Some weren't worth keeping, like Berrian for the contract he got, and yeah, we got stuff in return for Jones and Orton, but it still all feels a bit like a burn. We just suck at developing our own guys on offense.

bearsfan_51
12-16-2009, 08:08 PM
Actually I asked the question because I knew people would mention a bunch of nobodies like Bobby Wade. I wouldn't want Gage, Wade, or Bradley back now if I could have them for free. None of them are awful, but I certainly don't miss any of them.

Berrian had his best year with the Bears. Thomas Jones is debeatable.

The point is, I know that things have gotten negative here, but the day I start bemoaning the loss of Bobby Wade someone please shoot me in the face.

regoob2
12-16-2009, 08:35 PM
Actually I asked the question because I knew people would mention a bunch of nobodies like Bobby Wade. I wouldn't want Gage, Wade, or Bradley back now if I could have them for free. None of them are awful, but I certainly don't miss any of them.

Berrian had his best year with the Bears. Thomas Jones is debeatable.

The point is, I know that things have gotten negative here, but the day I start bemoaning the loss of Bobby Wade someone please shoot me in the face.
I would definitely take Gage back. He's played well for the Titans. Made several great plays.

MidwayMonster31
12-16-2009, 09:37 PM
Actually I asked the question because I knew people would mention a bunch of nobodies like Bobby Wade. I wouldn't want Gage, Wade, or Bradley back now if I could have them for free. None of them are awful, but I certainly don't miss any of them.

Berrian had his best year with the Bears. Thomas Jones is debeatable.

The point is, I know that things have gotten negative here, but the day I start bemoaning the loss of Bobby Wade someone please shoot me in the face.This I can agree with, but it also speaks about their ability to evaluate and develop offensive talent. Angelo has not drafted one offensive pro bowler in his entire time here (unless you count Hester on returns).

BeerBaron
12-17-2009, 12:48 AM
This I can agree with, but it also speaks about their ability to evaluate and develop offensive talent. Angelo has not drafted one offensive pro bowler in his entire time here (unless you count Hester on returns).

Pretty much this. A few guys aren't missed. but hell, they've almost all improved since being Bears.

Monomach
12-17-2009, 01:59 PM
From Devin Hester's twitter (http://twitter.com/D_hest23):

"I feel like the media blew my interview out of proportion and that everything I said was reworded or taken the wrong way,'' Hester tweeted. "When I am asked, 'Will there be changes?' my answer is 'yes.' What I mean is; there will always be new guys (rookies, trades or coaches). . . . After reading current articles I feel like the press tried to make me seem like I had inside information on the future of coaches or players."

I've heard Devin Hester speak. I've gone back and read previous twits. Tweets. Whatever the hell they're called. That is not Devin Hester. That's a member of the Bears PR staff or his agent. If he wrote that, I'll let an entire middle school kick me in the junk. The man is barely literate.

Gay Ork Wang
12-17-2009, 02:03 PM
From Devin Hester's twitter (http://twitter.com/D_hest23):



I've heard Devin Hester speak. I've gone back and read previous twits. Tweets. Whatever the hell they're called. That is not Devin Hester. That's a member of the Bears PR staff or his agent. If he wrote that, I'll let an entire middle school kick me in the junk. The man is barely literate.
what happened?

SFbear
12-17-2009, 03:58 PM
what happened?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-17-haugh-bears-chicago-dec17,0,3535771.column

Hester basically called out Ron Turner without naming names. The fact that his twitter responses are complete sentences is probably a sign somebody from the PR staff helped him craft a statement for damage control.

I concede any argument I made about Turner possible being back next year. The media is gunning for him and I think even Turner knows he's done. I just hope the org realizes that we have more problems than just him.

bearsfan_51
12-17-2009, 04:15 PM
I would be surprised if the entire coaching staff isn't let go honestly. The only question is if JA is let go, and I'd say the odds are that he is not, but rather that we hire a head coach with offensive experience who will have more of a say in the draft process (Shannahan, Billick, etc).

TitleTown088
12-18-2009, 02:00 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-17-haugh-bears-chicago-dec17,0,3535771.column

Hester basically called out Ron Turner without naming names. The fact that his twitter responses are complete sentences is probably a sign somebody from the PR staff helped him craft a statement for damage control.

I concede any argument I made about Turner possible being back next year. The media is gunning for him and I think even Turner knows he's done. I just hope the org realizes that we have more problems than just him.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/12/briggs-echoes-hester-predicts-changes-are-coming-to-bears.html

Briggs too.

Gay Ork Wang
12-18-2009, 02:01 PM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/12/briggs-echoes-hester-predicts-changes-are-coming-to-bears.html

Briggs too.
they should be. he is horrible

Monomach
12-18-2009, 10:03 PM
http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/blog_moon

CSNChicago.com has learned, in the strongest terms to date, that Lovie Smith indeed will be back as Bears coach in 2010.

Unless this is a smokescreen, I won't be spending a penny on the Bears until it's resolved. No game tickets, no t-shirts, no new jersey, no books, no new flag for my front yard, no Bears-themed Christmas gifts. Nothing.

**** the McCaskeys. I hope they're all hit by a bus.

TitleTown088
12-18-2009, 10:15 PM
http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/blog_moon


Unless this is a smokescreen, I won't be spending a penny on the Bears until it's resolved. No game tickets, no t-shirts, no new jersey, no books, no new flag for my front yard, no Bears-themed Christmas gifts. Nothing.

**** the McCaskeys. I hope they're all hit by a bus.
PFT is all over it too. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/18/report-lovie-smith-is-safe/

I guess one positive for you guys is that Lovie's defense is kryptonite against MM's offense.

BeerBaron
12-18-2009, 10:33 PM
So lame.... At least maybe if we oust Turner the offense will get going.

MidwayMonster31
12-18-2009, 10:41 PM
Bleh.
Wonder who the new offensive coordinator is going to be.

BeerBaron
12-18-2009, 10:42 PM
Bleh.
Wonder who the new offensive coordinator is going to be.

It'll probably be some one year quick-fix attempt from some coordinator trying to get back into the league or something.... why would someone good come here when they either have to be perfect right away or get canned when Lovie goes probably next year.

Monomach
12-18-2009, 11:33 PM
It'll probably be some one year quick-fix attempt from some coordinator trying to get back into the league or something.... why would someone good come here when they either have to be perfect right away or get canned when Lovie goes probably next year.

Exactly. If Lovie is still here, there is zero chance at getting a really good coordinator. Charlie Weis/Gary Kubiak/Jason Bates isn't going to sign on knowing that he'll be gone in a year or two when Lovie gets the boot.

My guess is that we get Mike Martz.

Jay Cutler is going to have 4 coordinators over 4 or 5 years. This is how you turn a pro bowl QB into a bust, Chicago style.

BeerBaron
12-18-2009, 11:37 PM
Exactly. If Lovie is still here, there is zero chance at getting a really good coordinator. Charlie Weis/Gary Kubiak/Jason Bates isn't going to sign on knowing that he'll be gone in a year or two when Lovie gets the boot.

My guess is that we get Mike Martz.

Jay Cutler is going to have 4 coordinators over 4 or 5 years. This is how you turn a pro bowl QB into a bust, Chicago style.

And that's going to set us back a good decade or more.... Maybe we'll have a lucky 2001 kind of year along the way, but I think this is being handled very poorly. Ownership is willing to risk throwing away the next several seasons at least because (according to PFT at least) there will be a chance of labor problems and work stoppage coming up.

If it were completely up to me, we'd have a full coaching staff and veteran player purge, and start anew building around Cutler.

SFbear
12-19-2009, 05:27 AM
PFT is all over it too. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/18/report-lovie-smith-is-safe/


Well there goes my buzz. Not really surprising but still a kick in the gut to see in print.

We can expect a lot more Gaines Adams "reeking of desperation" type moves as Lovie lectures us about how close we are and we mortgage the future to try to save a lame duck coach.

Or maybe we're all wrong and Lovie is actually a good coach who will right the ship. Maybe.

Monomach
12-19-2009, 08:20 AM
Or maybe we're all wrong and Lovie is actually a good coach who will right the ship. Maybe.

*coughcough*

Hurricane Ditka
12-19-2009, 01:19 PM
Well there goes whatever slight chance at the playoffs we had in 2010. The Bears ruin players like it's going out of style. The coaching pool is filled with guys that have shown the ability to develop talent and win Superbowls, but as they usually due the Bears will make a move a year too late and we'll get some college coach or hot coordinator. Goodbye re-building, hello deconstruction. By the time our offense is ready to contend again our key players on defense will be out of the league

Hurricane Ditka
12-19-2009, 04:27 PM
Giving the statement further thought, if it even deserves it. It seems like it's likely Jerry Angelo's bid at saving himself. The interesting offseason move to make is to pay an give an offensive coordinator a big check and a assistant head coach title. Go out and get the best, and most head coach ready o.c. out there, and give him complete control of the offense. If Jerry Angelo wants to save himself the o-coordinator hire has to be capable of replacing Lovie Smith. This gives Jay some security with his offense, as well as keeping Smith on the hot seat for the performance of the defense.

Also I'll throw this in: I'd love to see us bring in a Denver style Zone blocking offense. Seeing as Jerry Angelo hasn't seemed all too interested in spending serious draft picks on the offensive line, and some of the personell we have now could make the transition pretty well. I think Williams, Beekman, and Garza would thrive in it because it wouldn't require them to attack head on but from an angle letting the use there quickness a little more than pure strength, and Schaeffer could be serviceable. And it's easy to find guys in late rounds that fit the profile.

We saw the blueprint for Cutler's success in this system, and it would play to his strengths. Going out there and making this kind of hire would prove that this organization is committed to getting better and committed to Jay Cutler's development.

Hurricane Ditka
12-20-2009, 05:08 PM
This is embarrassing.

shady00
12-20-2009, 05:39 PM
Because I'm so disappointed with this team right now...I just went back to find a post I made before the Cutler trade...

shady00
Rookie

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 321
Reputation: 1695

I couldn't give two first-rounders for Cutler. This entire off-season has been filled with his drama, and I know the Broncos defense is pathetic, however he never led them to a winning record.

I would love Cutler on this team, but for the right price. Give them this year's 1st, 3rd, and Kyle and I'm all in. But two first rounders? No way.

Start Kyle and keep the picks."
__________________

bearsfan_51
12-20-2009, 05:41 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4759793

Lovie staying rumor is shot down by Angelo. I don't see how he stays.

Gay Ork Wang
12-20-2009, 05:56 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4759793

Lovie staying rumor is shot down by Angelo. I don't see how he stays.
this was the best thing i heard in the game

regoob2
12-20-2009, 06:00 PM
Because I'm so disappointed with this team right now...I just went back to find a post I made before the Cutler trade...

shady00
Rookie

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 321
Reputation: 1695

I couldn't give two first-rounders for Cutler. This entire off-season has been filled with his drama, and I know the Broncos defense is pathetic, however he never led them to a winning record.

I would love Cutler on this team, but for the right price. Give them this year's 1st, 3rd, and Kyle and I'm all in. But two first rounders? No way.

Start Kyle and keep the picks."
__________________Id make that trade every time. Nobody can be successful with this OL, WRs and OC.

If we still had Orton with how bad our running game is and our defense we struggle to win a single game.

Gay Ork Wang
12-20-2009, 06:05 PM
was John Tait and John StClair that big off a loss? i dont understand how we got this bad run blocking

SFbear
12-21-2009, 12:02 AM
Ogunleye is out for the season. Thats probably his last game as a Bear.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-21-bears-bits-chicago-dec21,0,2581471.story

regoob2
12-21-2009, 08:40 AM
Ogunleye is out for the season. Thats probably his last game as a Bear.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-21-bears-bits-chicago-dec21,0,2581471.story
Hopefully Gaines Adams will get the start at LE. I dont see anyway we resign Ogun.

bearsfan_51
12-21-2009, 09:41 AM
Best of luck to the African prince. He's always been one of my favorite Bears. Very well spoken, classy, and thoughtful.

KBear
12-21-2009, 12:55 PM
was John Tait and John StClair that big off a loss? i dont understand how we got this bad run blocking

The Bears probably wanted to justify the trade for Cutler, or just want to show off their new QB. Plus wanting to limit Forte touches, and things just got out of control. Add in the fact the OLine had not played a lot together prior to this year with three new faces, and it leads to a poor running game.

They abandon it to early too. If they just stick with it, it would be slightly better.

Gay Ork Wang
12-21-2009, 01:31 PM
even if it would be slightly better, it does warrant a drop from 5th in the league do 32nd.

MidwayMonster31
12-21-2009, 02:02 PM
I am going to miss Ogunleye. Him, Lance Briggs and Alex Brown may have been the only bright spots of this season.
Everything is wrong with the Bears now.

Monomach
12-24-2009, 12:21 AM
I know a lot of people looked for video footage of this for a long time, so here it is...

It's at 3:10 in this clip: http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/multimediapopup.asp?mm_file_id=1616&play_clip=Y&rn=10

That was 10 seconds after Jim McMahon threw an INT. He was walking back to the sideline.

Let's all take a moment this Christmas season to spit on the memory of Charles Martin, the Packer who made the dirtiest play in the NFL's long history.

BeerBaron
12-24-2009, 04:44 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/24/report-shanahan-would-be-extremely-interested-in-bears-job/

I would much prefer Shanny. He's my #1 guy I'd like to see as the next Head Coach of this team.

SFbear
12-24-2009, 05:16 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/24/report-shanahan-would-be-extremely-interested-in-bears-job/

I would much prefer Shanny. He's my #1 guy I'd like to see as the next Head Coach of this team.

I don't see us outbidding the Redskins for him in either money or power but the one wild card is Cutler.

Hurricane Ditka
12-26-2009, 03:04 PM
Money no probably not, but power is a possibility, Dan Snyder is always going to have his thumb in the Redskins pie so to speak. Where as the McCaskey's aren't exactly the most hands on owners in sports

BeerBaron
12-26-2009, 03:18 PM
Money no probably not, but power is a possibility, Dan Snyder is always going to have his thumb in the Redskins pie so to speak. Where as the McCaskey's aren't exactly the most hands on owners in sports

I believe it was in a PFT article that I was reading, it said that Shanahan has been quoted saying that he's willing to work with an established GM as long as he gets final say.

And if it meant saving his job by dumping Lovie and giving final say to Shanny, I think JA would do it.

I think it'll be between us and the Redskins for Shanny's services, and they have the head start of already getting a new GM and they have a coach who is about 99.9% certain of being done. But we have Cutler and they have.....well, nothing much at QB. And honestly, that may play a part.

I just hope we start rebuilding now.....if the owners play the "cheap" card and keep Lovie because of the possible impending work stoppage in 2011, I'm not going to be too thrilled....

Hurricane Ditka
12-27-2009, 02:31 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-27-haugh-dec27,0,2999941.column

Looks it's the beginning of the end for Kruetz, but it's time for him to go. How we go about retooling the offensive line depends on the system we bring in, but I think either way C should be a high priority. Sure we've heard Beekman is the heir apparent, but he can't seem to stay ahed of Omiyale, so what does that say. If you want to make a statement that you are committed to protecting Jay Cutler, you either spend big money on a free agent center, or put it on the top of the draft list.

Smokey Joe
12-27-2009, 09:50 PM
One thing no one has mentioned... Kreutz started to decline when we basically gave him no help on the inside. The center is the spot on the line that needs the most help from other linemen. Our guards have been as bad if not worse than Kreutz the past 2+ years.

There's no doubt Kreutz is in decline and has been for the past couple of years. However, I think he can still be beneficial to us. If we actually overhaul the front office and coaching staff like we despirately need to do, and actually upgrade both guard spots, I could see Kreutz's playing at a much higher level.

Also, he is one of the few players who actually seems to give a damn.

Gay Ork Wang
12-28-2009, 08:02 AM
another thing for shanahan that could make him happy is coming back to the town where he grew up.

God i want him badly.
i wouldnt care if the defense was bad, at least people would stop with the insane Cutler hate

Monomach
12-28-2009, 04:11 PM
One thing no one has mentioned... Kreutz started to decline when we basically gave him no help on the inside. The center is the spot on the line that needs the most help from other linemen. Our guards have been as bad if not worse than Kreutz the past 2+ years.

There's no doubt Kreutz is in decline and has been for the past couple of years. However, I think he can still be beneficial to us. If we actually overhaul the front office and coaching staff like we despirately need to do, and actually upgrade both guard spots, I could see Kreutz's playing at a much higher level.

Also, he is one of the few players who actually seems to give a damn.
When your center puts more than half of his shotgun snaps at the qb's knees or on the ground, he ought to be fired...especially when his cap number is like 4 million. You could put him between Hutchinson and Faneca, but that still wouldn't be fixed.

dabears10
12-28-2009, 08:12 PM
Is life in the Bears? I will not believe it.

SFbear
12-28-2009, 08:55 PM
Chris Williams has been impressive so far.

regoob2
12-28-2009, 08:58 PM
Chris Williams has been impressive so far.
Very impressive.

Khalil Bell has looked much better than Forte every game ive seen him.

BeerBaron
12-28-2009, 09:36 PM
Chris Williams has been impressive so far.

Is he on the left side now? I noticed Shaffer in the game and saw him make some good blocks.....

Looks like another year of Lovie though. I'm obviously happy that they're winning but it's unsettling that next year could be in the balance tonight too...

dabears10
12-28-2009, 11:06 PM
Cutlerzzzz! Fire Lovie Please!

Vikes99ej
12-28-2009, 11:08 PM
Good game guys.

SFbear
12-28-2009, 11:09 PM
Not starting Aromashadu earlier in the year was a mistake.

BeerBaron
12-28-2009, 11:11 PM
Not starting Aromashadu earlier in the year was a mistake.

I recall injuries playing a part in that too. I really hope Knox is OK....Aromashadu, Hester, Knox and Bennett doesn't actually look too bad for the future I don't think. They'll have all grown up a year and hopefully be healthy, and will have a full season and an offseason to work on report with Cutler...

We still could use some pieces on the o-line though. That's my #1 area that needs addressed headed forward still, though tonight was promising with Williams looking good on the left. Jared Allen was silent.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2009, 11:25 PM
Yes, we won, and it was great to see the team play with some emotion for once... But you can guarantee yourself that this victory will be the excuse the front offices uses to keep Lovie. Sure, it was still 50-50 at best even if we did lose out, but not its almost a certainty he will be back. Very bittersweet tonight.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2009, 11:26 PM
When your center puts more than half of his shotgun snaps at the qb's knees or on the ground, he ought to be fired...especially when his cap number is like 4 million. You could put him between Hutchinson and Faneca, but that still wouldn't be fixed.
Its no secret that Kreutz has always struggled with the shotgun. However, you are way over-exaggerating things as his snaps have not nearly been as awful as you described.

dabears10
12-28-2009, 11:43 PM
AHHH, Jim Miller is giving credit to Lovie Smith for things he did not really do. Talking about playing Devin Aromashodu and moving Chris Williams to Left Tackle as Lovie's 'decisions', no they played because of injuries not because he is a genius tactician. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CLEAN HOUSE!

bearsfan_51
12-29-2009, 12:35 AM
Yes, we won, and it was great to see the team play with some emotion for once... But you can guarantee yourself that this victory will be the excuse the front offices uses to keep Lovie. Sure, it was still 50-50 at best even if we did lose out, but not its almost a certainty he will be back. Very bittersweet tonight.
Why would the front office need an excuse to keep Lovie? The Bears will still sell every ticket next season, if they planned on keeping him they would do it either way and make up whatever excuse they want.

Smokey Joe
12-29-2009, 12:40 AM
Why would the front office need an excuse to keep Lovie? The Bears will still sell every ticket next season, if they planned on keeping him they would do it either way and make up whatever excuse they want.
Do you think im some idiot? Everyone knows that McCasky doesnt give a damn as long as she gets her money. However, this victory pretty much seals Lovie's fate for next season. And the front office isnt going to come out and say "You fools will still buy tickets and merchandise, deal with it."

If we did lose out, there was a much better chance that the front office would let Lovie go. However, this victory will be used as the main justification for keeping Lovie.

Gay Ork Wang
12-29-2009, 12:44 AM
Do you think im some idiot? Everyone knows that McCasky doesnt give a damn as long as she gets her money. However, this victory pretty much seals Lovie's fate for next season. And the front office isnt going to come out and say "You fools will still buy tickets and merchandise, deal with it."

If we did lose out, there was a much better chance that the front office would let Lovie go. However, this victory will be used as the main justification for keeping Lovie.
but if its just used as justification why are you furious?
if they keep him and just use this as justification that just means they wouldve kept him either way

bearsfan_51
12-29-2009, 12:44 AM
Do you think im some idiot?
Probably not the time to ask considering your post in the Leach thread. You also just contradicted yourself within your own post. If the McCasky's don't give a damn, why would they need this game for any particular reason? You can't argue it both ways.

See here:

If we did lose out, there was a much better chance that the front office would let Lovie go. However, this victory will be used as the main justification for keeping Lovie.
You're basing this on what exactly?

vikes_28
12-29-2009, 12:46 AM
Good game. You bastards got lucky :)

bearsfan_51
12-29-2009, 12:53 AM
Good game. You bastards got lucky :)
Not sure if joking, but a little, yeah.

On the other hand, Vikings fans have long overrated Antoine Winfield, so to watch him get schooled by a guy who barely made the roster this year was pretty nice.

The Vikes actually got beat by the three things that have hurt them most this season (bad secondary, special teams, and AP fumbling), so it wasn't so much luck, it was just the weaknesses of the Vikings accumulating at the wrong point in the season.

Smokey Joe
12-29-2009, 12:56 AM
but if its just used as justification why are you furious?
if they keep him and just use this as justification that just means they wouldve kept him either way
Please. If we did lose out, there would have been a solid chance Lovie would be fired, even if the front office didnt really want to. The fans are the most important thing as they bring in the money for McCasky. We've seen already with that site bearsfanunited that has gotten a ton of attention in the media and raised 7500 in one week for anti-lovie ads.

However, this win will seals our fate with Lovie because it gives the front office enough justification to keep Lovie and makes it an easier sales pitch to the fans.

vikes_28
12-29-2009, 01:13 AM
Not sure if joking, but a little, yeah.

On the other hand, Vikings fans have long overrated Antoine Winfield, so to watch him get schooled by a guy who barely made the roster this year was pretty nice.

The Vikes actually got beat by the three things that have hurt them most this season (bad secondary, special teams, and AP fumbling), so it wasn't so much luck, it was just the weaknesses of the Vikings accumulating at the wrong point in the season.

Winfield is rusty. He was out for 6 games this season. Special teams was just fine up until this point. And AP is, well, AP.

regoob2
12-29-2009, 01:44 PM
I don't think Lovie was going to get fired either way. We'll still have new O coaches which was our biggest need. If our D and team as a whole plays like that I'm fine with it. Can't get everything we want all at once.

That was a hell of a win. It's feels good to walk into work with a smile on my face for once following a Bears game.

Hurricane Ditka
12-29-2009, 02:14 PM
I think if Lovie stays, Turner stays with him. We'll come back down to earth a little and probably lay and egg against the Lions. But this game proved that some of the talent is there, especially on the lines. I'm really hoping for someone with a Denver/ZBS system. We ran alot of zone runs, and bootlegs yesterday and they were successful. Draft an athletic center and we're in business. I really think this suits our the way we have built our offensive line and tight ends, even Olsen was effective blocking when he wasn't asked to block head on last night.

k0ng
12-29-2009, 02:26 PM
Was anyone else pleased with the way Steltz played last night? I know I was. I'd say give him a look at SS and try to bring a FS in via FA.

Monomach
12-29-2009, 06:28 PM
If our D and team as a whole plays like that I'm fine with it.


If the defense were to play like that over the course of an entire season, we'd win one or two games.

We would be:
32nd in total offensive yards allowed
32nd in passing yards allowed
24th in rushing yards allowed
31st in points per game allowed

Let's not get crazy with the excitement here. The offense won that game. The defense is still a steaming pile of dog crap.

regoob2
12-29-2009, 08:16 PM
If the defense were to play like that over the course of an entire season, we'd win one or two games.

We would be:
32nd in total offensive yards allowed
32nd in passing yards allowed
24th in rushing yards allowed
31st in points per game allowed

Let's not get crazy with the excitement here. The offense won that game. The defense is still a steaming pile of dog crap.
Statistically yes. But we played with passion and a desire. We also had 6 starters out.

Monomach
12-31-2009, 01:26 AM
Assuming no CBA, keeping a 4-3 defense, changing to NE-style offense, here's my mock offseason...

Free Agents Acquired:
WR Terrell Owens- 1 year, 5 million
Gives us someone who can fight for balls. Cutler would love it. As much a tutor for Aromashodu as a player.
LG Chester Pitts- 1 year, 4 million
Coming off of season ending surgery, so a one year deal to earn a bigger deal.
LE Aaron Kampman- 4 years, 22 million
Ogunleye's replacement.
DT Tank Johnson- 3 years, 9 million
I know no one likes to admit it, but he's a good 4-3 tackle. Our line play misses him. He's gotten a lot of pressure as the Bengals UT and hasn't gotten into any trouble. Don't know whether he'd sign here after we cut him.
LB Derrick Johnson- 4 years, 12 million
Strong side until we get rid of Urlacher. Then he takes over in the middle. I'm just assuming that KC non-tenders him now that he's shown he's no 3-4 LB.

The cornerback cupboard is bare. Same thing for safety (I don't think Sharper is going to get to free agency). We have to add guys to get pressure up front to make our suspect DBs look better. I know it seems like a lot of signings, but with no draft picks, an uncapped year, and overpaid bad vets needing to go, whatcha gonna do? It's kind of a perfect storm for us to be player in FA. Even so, I kept us to guys who aren't the BPA.


Free Agents Leaving:
Adrian Peterson
Adewale Ogunleye
Josh Bullocks
Mark Anderson
Matt Toeaina
Pisa Tinoisamoa
Darrell McClover

Free Agents Retained:
Nick Roach, Original round (no pick) tender
Jamar Williams, Original (4th) round tender
Danieal Manning, Original (2nd) round tender

Cuts and trades:
Olin Kreutz cut
Not starting-caliber anymore, replacement is on roster, makes too much money
Devin Hester traded for third round pick, if we're lucky
Can't afford to keep him. Suspect route running and hands. Makes an incredible 5.75 million next year. Massive glut of slot-type receivers on team.
Rashied Davis cut
...because that's what happens when you're bad.
Orlando Pace
Nice knowing you, big guy.
Jason McKie
He sucks, no need for a FB. Dez Clark can block.
Nathan Vasher
No more paying a guy starting corner money to sit.

I'd also try to shop Urlacher for a second rounder, but no way would one bite on that after a lost season, especially with his ridiculous contract. I'd cut crappy guard, but we already paid him all of his money. The rest of his contract is acceptable for a swing tackle that I hope we never have to use. Same situation for Tommie Harris. Might as well keep him and hope his knees magically heal.

Roster:
QB: Cutler, Hanie
RB: Forte, Bell, Wolfe
FB: none
WR: Owens, Aromashodu, Knox, Bennett, Iglesias
TE: Olsen, Davis, Clark
T: Williams, Shaffer, Omiyale
G: Pitts, Garza, Louis
C: Beekman
DE: Kampman, Brown, G. Adams, Melton
DT: T. Johnson, Harris, Gilbert, Idonije, Harrison, A. Adams
LB: Briggs, D. Johnson, Urlacher, Williams, Roach, Hillenmeyer
CB: Tillman, Bowman, Graham, Moore
FS: Manning, Steltz
SS: Afalava, Payne
P: Maynard
K: Gould
KR/PR: Manning, Knox
LS: Mannelly

That's a roster of 47, leaving room for draft picks and/or anyone who earns a promotion from the practice squad.

Draft BPA from these positions:
OT
FS
DT
CB
WR
OG/C

thefalconer
01-01-2010, 03:13 PM
hey bears fans. championship week for my fantasy team and i need some help. who's the best fantasy play this week: devin aromashodu or earl bennett? TIA.

Gay Ork Wang
01-01-2010, 10:58 PM
id say armoashodu, seems like cutler locks onto him at times

Hurricane Ditka
01-04-2010, 11:22 AM
Well there won't be news coming out of Halas Hall today, for what it's worth. It probably means tomorrow will mark the end of the second Ron Turner era, with it will probably come Lovie's demotion back to just head coach. Hopefully we purge offensive coaches completely and install a modern day offensive system. Go ahead and rip that bubble screen out of the play book. Mike Martz would be an interesting hire, Lovie's nepotism and all. I'd say our offensive Co-ordinator job is pretty inticing, since it's basically offensive head coach and I think Martz would really go for that kind of control. If we hire Martz hopefully we bring a quarterbacks coach who's familar with Cutler, and they can really tool this offense to his strengths. We might even have the receivers to pull it off, all though after yesterday I think we'd be better off moving Hester back to full-time returner part-time receiver. Forte could thrive because of his pass catching ability, but we need a complimentary running back no matter what offense we bring in. (Chester Taylor would be nice, or in the off chance he gets cut LT would make me **** my pants).

The D-Coordinator hire that makes alot of sense in Perry Fewell. Another Lovie/St Louis guy, maybe he'd figure out what the hell to do with Daniell Manning, since Lovie certainly can't. Hopefully we can trick someone into giving us a draft pick for him as a RFA.

It hurts not to have that 10 or 11th pick in round 2. We need some draft picks god dmannit

Gay Ork Wang
01-04-2010, 11:41 AM
i dont think moving hester back as a full time returner would help. it seems like its most of the times just no great blocking at all and him trying to hard than him being exhausted from being a WR. We need a Brendan Ayanbadeyo

Monomach
01-04-2010, 11:44 AM
We can't really afford Hester if he's a full-time returner, anyway. He's getting paid a stupid amount of money next year. I still say we ought to trade him, not that we will.

So...Jim Zorn needs to come to Chicago and be Jay Cutler's QB coach. Someone start a billboard. :p

Gay Ork Wang
01-04-2010, 11:48 AM
We can't really afford Hester if he's a full-time returner, anyway. He's getting paid a stupid amount of money next year. I still say we ought to trade him, not that we will.

So...Jim Zorn needs to come to Chicago and be Jay Cutler's QB coach. Someone start a billboard. :p
he did a great job with Campbell?

god why cant we
Disregard Lovie
Acquire Shanahan

princefielder28
01-04-2010, 12:19 PM
he did a great job with Campbell?


Zorn didn't do a bad job. Plus, Campbell's skill set didn't fit that offense the greatest to begin with. If you look at the success Hasselbeck had in Seattle while Zorn was QBs coach, then look at his play since then (I know he's battled injuries), there's been quite a drop-off in production for him. Zorn knows how to coach QBs and he's a bright offensive guy but he doesn't know how to run an entire football team.

bearsfan_51
01-04-2010, 12:36 PM
I think it's funny that the same people that were dying for Lovie to get an extension after the Superbowl ("The Bears are so cheap!!") now can't wait to get rid of him ("The Bears are so cheap!!").

Hurricane Ditka
01-04-2010, 12:57 PM
They aren't cheap, they're stupid.

Hopefully these organizational meetings result in Lovie loosing some clout with the personnel, and coaching staff decisions.

BeerBaron
01-04-2010, 01:41 PM
I'd rather avoid Mike Martz.....he's absolutely bombed out in his last two stops (Detroit and San Fran) and would probably only screw Cutler over even further.

My biggest fear is, that after all of this investment in Cutler, we're going to do what Washington did with Campbell and San Fran did to Alex Smith, and put him through multiple offensive coordinator and schemes changes in a short amount of time. Last year in Denver, this year with Turner, next year with a possible 1 year guy who gets canned with Lovie (I have no faith, I know) then possibly ANOTHER guy the year after that with whatever long term coach we get.....that could be 4 changes in 4 years. I don't know of a single QB who's ever gone through something like that and looked good coming out.

I know it won't happen, but it's still my dream that we destroy the staff and bring in an offensive guru who can basically build around Cutler. Wasting even one first round pick on a QB (or any position really) who bombs out can completely cripple a franchise, so I can only imagine what losing two firsts and a third will do to us if Cutler is drug through the muck of that many scheme changes.

So like it or not, we are completely invested in Cutler. I'd much rather start the coaching changes now, completely, than do it little by little and possibly subject him to that many changes in a few years.

Monomach
01-04-2010, 02:54 PM
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3897/coachesmedium300x1831.jpg

BeerBaron
01-04-2010, 03:00 PM
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3897/coachesmedium300x1831.jpg

Shanny would be my ideal, I'd say no to Cowher though. He'd most likely scrape up whoever he could from his old Pittsburgh staffs, and i just don't think that's the way I'd want to go. Is Bruce Arians really better than Ron Turner? How many years would it take us to go from what we have on defense to something that could run a 3-4? Is Cutler really best off in a power run offense?

I'm 110% for an offensive minded head coach.

Smokey Joe
01-04-2010, 05:33 PM
We could easily tansition into a 3-4 defense within 1 year. Idonije and Gilbert fit at RE perfectly and Marcus Harrison could be a good fit at LE. Adams could play NT in a 3-4, however, since Casey Hampton is a FA, it wouldnt be a bad idea to shell out a lot of money on him as an elite NT makes running a 3-4 sooo much easier. Tommie would need to be traded.

At linebacker, we'd have to get rid of Urlacher. However, Briggs, Williams, and Hunter can all play ILB in the 34. Plus, its easy to find solid 34 ILB's. At outside, we can try out Adams and Anderson, and it might work for them considering they definitely aren't 43 DE's.

In the secondary, we need a FS no matter what system we play. Ryan Clark from Pittsburgh would make sense as a not too expensive FA who can fill in at FS for a little bit. Afalava/Steltz/Payne would compete at SS, but I think Payne wouldnt provide much considering he cant cover anyone man-on-man. I really dont know if Afalava or Steltz can either, but from what I can tell, they are better in coverage than Payne.

Tillman and Bowman are solid man corners. Manning would be very effective in the 34 as a nickle back or maybe even FS with his blitzing ability. In fact, I think Manning is much better in man coverage than he is with zone.

Well it wouldnt be perfect yet, I got no problem switching over to the 34. The Packers did it easily in one year, and if you have the right coach, it shouldnt be too dificult. Finding players for the 34 is soo much easier than finding players for the 43.

As for HC, sign me up for Russ Grimm please.

BeerBaron
01-04-2010, 07:22 PM
I'd hardly say the Packers did it easily....they had more pieces that fit better than we do to begin with, and then hit a draft homerun on Clay Matthews. They also ran a man coverage scheme to begin with and had one of the best in Charles Woodson to build with, as well as a few good safeties.

I think the 3-4 is the polar opposite of the cover 2, and even if we find guys who could fit right away, who's to say they'd be any good? I don't believe Idonije or Gilbert have played it, same for Harrison...and didn't we get Adams because he didn't fit into San Fran's 3-4 conversion?

What the Packers did implementing it reasonably successfully in one year (still not perfect by any stretch) is the exception and not the rule.

We lack the high draft picks and players already in place to do it imo. Plus, we're notoriously cheap in the FA market, and since 3-4 NTs can play for a long time, well into their upper 30s in a few cases, some other established 3-4 team closer to a title than we are is probably going to jump on Hampton.

Smokey Joe
01-04-2010, 10:22 PM
I'd hardly say the Packers did it easily....they had more pieces that fit better than we do to begin with, and then hit a draft homerun on Clay Matthews. They also ran a man coverage scheme to begin with and had one of the best in Charles Woodson to build with, as well as a few good safeties.

True, the Packers had a lot of good players already in their secondary. However, Tillman is a solid man cover corner, and we are technically a "cover 2" team, but run primarily man coverage. Also, Bowman has turned out to be a pretty good cover guy as well, perhaps even our best.


I think the 3-4 is the polar opposite of the cover 2, and even if we find guys who could fit right away, who's to say they'd be any good? I don't believe Idonije or Gilbert have played it, same for Harrison...and didn't we get Adams because he didn't fit into San Fran's 3-4 conversion?
We don't know if they'd be any good in it, but then again, theres always gonna be question marks. However, Idonije is a perfect fit at LE in the 34, and he has preformed well at both DE and UT for us. Gilbert and Harrison were both looked at as a 34 DE coming out. Its really not a dramatic change for DT's cause they will still be playing inside over guards, mostly in the B gap. As for Adams, im not sure, but if you get him up to a good 320, he can be a solid NT. The thing with him is that he can't last long and gets tired easily.

And while the 34 is different than the cover 2, we dont even have the peices on this roster to put together an effective cover 2 defense. We dont have any good pass rushing ends, just one mediocre one in Alex Brown. Tommie Harris is hot and cold at UT. We are solid at NT. We got a solid group of linebackers. However, the secondary is still bad no matter what D we run next year. New guys are going to have to be brought in.


What the Packers did implementing it reasonably successfully in one year (still not perfect by any stretch) is the exception and not the rule.

We lack the high draft picks and players already in place to do it imo. Plus, we're notoriously cheap in the FA market, and since 3-4 NTs can play for a long time, well into their upper 30s in a few cases, some other established 3-4 team closer to a title than we are is probably going to jump on Hampton.
We are gonna have to fix the defense via free agency, plain and simple. There isnt any way better to begin then by signing an elite NT like Hampton. If we gave him the money, he'd come. And while we are cheap for the most part in free agency, we do sometimes make splashes. And if we got a new HC, I think we would be more willing to spend a little bit more money.

BeerBaron
01-04-2010, 10:29 PM
Well, regardless, it doesn't look like we have to worry about it for another year:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/04/bears-are-expected-to-announce-that-lovie-smith-will-be-back/

Lovie will likely be back but just as head coach, Marinelli will likely inherit the defensive playcalling duties.

Also, Jeremy Bates of USC is mentioned as a possible replacement for Turner. I really don't mind this since he worked with Cutler in Denver prior to this year, so we sort of avoid the constant, drastic scheme changes I feared.

I suppose if that's how it plays out, I'd be alright with it. I was already hoping that if we got rid of everybody, that Marinelli might be kept around. Toub too I'd hope...he might have found his new Ayanbadejo in Tim Shaw and the return game was really going late in the year.

bearsfan_51
01-04-2010, 10:44 PM
If we hired a new coach that would be even less money in the pot to spend.

Smokey Joe
01-04-2010, 11:17 PM
Some rumors flying around that a person high up in the Bears org. wants both Lovie and JA gone.

BeerBaron
01-05-2010, 12:00 AM
Some rumors flying around that a person high up in the Bears org. wants both Lovie and JA gone.

Must not be high enough to have the juice to make it actually happen or I feel like it would have already.

Smokey Joe
01-05-2010, 12:26 AM
We'll find out for sure tomorrow at 2 pm.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
01-05-2010, 12:32 AM
I hate all this build up...it scares me. Makes me think nothing will happen.

I'll be absolutly sick.

BeerBaron
01-05-2010, 01:06 AM
I hate all this build up...it scares me. Makes me think nothing will happen.

I'll be absolutly sick.

Well, I feel pretty certain that at the very least, Turner will be done. And most likely Lovie's duties will be peeled back a bit too. It's better than nothing I feel...

SFbear
01-05-2010, 02:21 AM
Well, regardless, it doesn't look like we have to worry about it for another year:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/04/bears-are-expected-to-announce-that-lovie-smith-will-be-back/

Lovie will likely be back but just as head coach, Marinelli will likely inherit the defensive playcalling duties.

I hope this is a joke. Marinelli has never been a defensive coordinator at any level of football. Why does everyone think he is some amazing guru? Its very questionable if he had a positive affect on any of the players at all.

Gay Ork Wang
01-05-2010, 08:50 AM
the one good thing is apparently the players like Lovie to stay.

that means if he would be gone, the locker room would be pissed and that could lead to something like theBenson thing (not saying that benson didnt kinda deserve it)

Monomach
01-05-2010, 09:49 AM
the one good thing is apparently the players like Lovie to stay.


We really have no way of knowing this. We can't really trust any indicator of this unless one of us is a personal friend of a Bear.

Imagine a guy from your local newspaper comes up to you and says "Wang, do you want your boss to be fired and someone competent to be hired in his place?"

If you want to keep your job in the event that he doesn't get fired, you better say "my boss is awesome. I love my boss. I hope my boss is with the company forever and ever."

bearsfan_51
01-05-2010, 10:44 AM
No mas Senor Turner.

BeerBaron
01-05-2010, 11:05 AM
I hope this is a joke. Marinelli has never been a defensive coordinator at any level of football. Why does everyone think he is some amazing guru? Its very questionable if he had a positive affect on any of the players at all.

Plenty of other defensive coordinators throughout history started off as defensive position coaches.....probably all of them.

What Lovie and Babich were doing wasn't working....why not try something else out?

Hurricane Ditka
01-05-2010, 11:10 AM
I'd rather we at least brought in Perry Fewell for an interview, Marinelli looses his value if he's promoted, he was brought in to overhaul the defensive line. We need him to be able to develop guys like Jarron Gilbert, Henry Melton, and Gaines Adams.

bearsfan_51
01-05-2010, 11:29 AM
I'm sure that Marinelli, Lovie, and Babich will probably all collectively have a hand in putting together a gameplan. All of them have been together and have exeperience in the same system going back about a decade.

Hurricane Ditka
01-05-2010, 11:36 AM
Is that supposed to build confidence? All schemes and systems change over time except apparently Lovie's Tampa 2. In the end it will be Lovie's nepotism and resistance to change that will be his downfall. The bluebrint to beat this defense is out there, not bringing in any outside help to run it is a mistake.

SFbear
01-05-2010, 12:09 PM
Plenty of other defensive coordinators throughout history started off as defensive position coaches.....probably all of them.

What Lovie and Babich were doing wasn't working....why not try something else out?

Yeah but he hasn't even coordinated at the high school level. If you don't like what Lovie and Babich have been doing the last few years, then you have to realize Marinelli is really just going to be implementing the same thing since thats all he knows. He's going to be learning on the job while this teams needs someone competent with fresh ideas right now.

dabears10
01-05-2010, 12:23 PM
Yeah but he hasn't even coordinated at the high school level. If you don't like what Lovie and Babich have been doing the last few years, then you have to realize Marinelli is really just going to be implementing the same thing since thats all he knows. He's going to be learning on the job while this teams needs someone competent with fresh ideas right now.

If Lovie stays they are going to bring in someone who has similar beliefs. Perry Fewell, if brought in will have the same ideas as this current staff.

BeerBaron
01-05-2010, 12:41 PM
With Turner done for sure, Jeremy Bates of USC (and formerly the QB coach in Denver) is the favored candidate. Another first time NFL coordinator I believe...

At least this way, if we have another bad year, it will be easy to gut the whole staff and front office since neither of the coordinators are probably worth keeping around.

Hurricane Ditka
01-05-2010, 12:47 PM
I think if Bates gets hired he might have some sticking power, since it's his relationship with Cutler that prompts his name being floated around. If our offense shows improvement but our defense keeps us out of playoffs, Lovie and his defensive friends could take the fall.

Hurricane Ditka
01-05-2010, 01:18 PM
Listening to the Score, the first names in the running we're gonna hear are Martz, Weis, and Jim Fassel. This isn't gonna be pretty, we're gonna suuuuuuuck.

BeerBaron
01-05-2010, 01:26 PM
Listening to the Score, the first names in the running we're gonna hear are Martz, Weis, and Jim Fassel. This isn't gonna be pretty, we're gonna suuuuuuuck.

Bates >>>> Either. Hiring Martz would likely test my fandom for at least next year.

Hurricane Ditka
01-05-2010, 01:37 PM
I think Martz might be able to do some innovative things with Cutler, but it's a big might. It would also take more than one season to build a line that could pass block as well as Martz offense would ask them to. I think we're in a good spot to transition into a zone blocking offensive line and run game.

Reportedly (as heard by me on the Score) Rod Marnelli turned down the defensive co-ordinator promotion, which means thankfully no Joe Cullen. I'm holing out hope for Perry Fewell, even though he's a Cover 2 guy he's done some other things and he has co-ordinator experience.

BeerBaron
01-05-2010, 01:54 PM
I think Martz might be able to do some innovative things with Cutler, but it's a big might. It would also take more than one season to build a line that could pass block as well as Martz offense would ask them to. I think we're in a good spot to transition into a zone blocking offensive line and run game.

Reportedly (as heard by me on the Score) Rod Marnelli turned down the defensive co-ordinator promotion, which means thankfully no Joe Cullen. I'm holing out hope for Perry Fewell, even though he's a Cover 2 guy he's done some other things and he has co-ordinator experience.

There's just no way we could put together what Martz would seek.... His last two coaching stops in Detroit and San Fran were absolute debacles. He was asking o-lines just as poor as ours to hold off defenders while the QB took 5 and 7 step drops and had to go through multiple progresses and just....ugh.....I PRAY we don't bring in Martz. If he wants back into coaching, he should check out the college game.

I'm personally on the Bates train for now. His familiarity with Cutler is a big plus, and having learned under Shanahan, might be able to do something with the o-line like his old boss always could.

bearsfan_51
01-05-2010, 02:30 PM
I would definitely want Martz. It's a risky move, but so ******* what?

Martz was about 5 years ahead of his time, now everyone is throwing the ball all over the place. If Martz can make Marc Bulger a probowl QB, I'm sure he can with Cutler.

As for whether it's supposed to inspire confidence, no, it's not. I neither view myself as an antagonist of the program or the defender of it, I'm just saying what exists.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
01-05-2010, 04:12 PM
So, off the top of my head, Im thinking Martz's system was only productive with strict pocket passers...Warner and Bulger. Garcia and Smith SUCKED.

Correct me if Im wrong, but I dont think itd work with Jay.

bearsfan_51
01-05-2010, 05:59 PM
Kitna was a bit more athletic and a scrambler. I honestly can't remember what Warner was pre-injury, but I think he scrambled a bit too.

In either case, Cutler needs to learn to sit in the pocket and read defenses, if his first read is always to scramble, he's never going to be a good quarterback.

Monomach
01-05-2010, 06:54 PM
Kitna was a bit more athletic and a scrambler. I honestly can't remember what Warner was pre-injury, but I think he scrambled a bit too.

In either case, Cutler needs to learn to sit in the pocket and read defenses, if his first read is always to scramble, he's never going to be a good quarterback.

A QB rating of over 100 out of the pocket is definitely the mark of a guy who will never be a good QB. :rolleyes:

Smokey Joe
01-05-2010, 09:56 PM
The defense will be the same old ****. The funny thing is, we fire all these offensive coaches, but not a single defensive coach. However, the defense has been as bad or worse than the offense these past 3 years, and we're supposedly a team that prides itself on defense. Un-freakin-believable. How does this make ANY sense?

Odds are Perry Fewell will be brought in as the DC, and from everything that I've heard and read about him is that he is a very good coach and gets the most out of his players. But honestly, will anything change with Lovie around as HC?

Lovie fired Rivera because Rivera wasn't a puppet of Lovie's "Tampa 2". Then he promoted Babich to DC because Babich is a "Tampa 2" puppet and we saw how well that worked out. And the one time Lovie does put his money where his mouth is and takes charge as DC, he fails epically.

I hope we do hire Mike Martz as OC. Hopefully that would be the final nail in Lovie's coffin. I guarantee it this offense would fail to epic proportions with a Mike Martz offense, it just wouldn't work with what we have.

At this moment I find it extremely tough to be a bears fan. Its obvious the bears want nothing to do with winning. That isn't football. Maybe I'll focus on a team like the Patriots, Cowboys, Falcons, etc... organizations that clearly want to win.

Smokey Joe
01-05-2010, 09:59 PM
In either case, Cutler needs to learn to sit in the pocket and read defenses, if his first read is always to scramble, he's never going to be a good quarterback.
With the amount of time our offensive line was giving him, his second read had to be scramble. If the first read wasn't there, and he went through his progressions in the pocket... he'd either get lucky cause the OLine gave him longer than 3 seconds of pass pro on a deep pass set, or he'd get ******* destroyed by the blindside DE.

bearfan
01-05-2010, 10:04 PM
The only defensive coach I believe deserved firing is the secondary coach. Rod Marinelli is a proven, quality dl coach, and Babich I think did a good job with the LBs this year considering the injuries.

My hope is that with Fewell (assuming we get him), our pass defense becomes top 10, and hopefully with good coaching our guys can stop the run too. Buffalo doesnt have the LBs that we have, so I have faith that our run defense can be improved in comparison to Buffalo's.

Hurricane Ditka
01-05-2010, 11:49 PM
I think Fewell is the best option, he'll run a Lovie friendly defense while also tweaking it enough too keep up with the times. He's also a motivator, and could figure out a secondary combo that works. Hopefully the duo comes to the conclusion that we need to add at least one two-gap defensive tackle. Someone who can draw the double team and free up Tommie Harris and the ends to get some pressure up-field. Pretty much every DT on the roster is suited to play the 3 technique, and I think guys like Anthony Adams and Marcus Harrision would both be more productive in the 3 with a true NT.

Smokey Joe
01-05-2010, 11:56 PM
Anthony Adams is definitely not a 3 tech. He is a solid 1 technique who's biggest problem is that he stamina to stay on the field too long. I actually think he'd be a good fit for a 3-4 team as the 3rd down NT with a little pass rushing ability.

Harrison is a NT-UT tweener, but is a great option at NT in passing situations.

bearsfan_51
01-06-2010, 12:03 AM
Anthony Adams came from San Fran where he wasn't a good fit for Nolan's 3-4. He's best as a 1 tech in our scheme, I don't know why he's so underappreciated by Bears fans.

bearsfan_51
01-06-2010, 12:10 AM
A QB rating of over 100 out of the pocket is definitely the mark of a guy who will never be a good QB. :rolleyes:
Find me a successful NFL offense where the QB plays primarily out of the pocket and that statistic will mean a ****. As it stands, he needs to improve his play in the pocket, where NFL quarterbacks make the majority of their reads.

Smokey Joe
01-06-2010, 01:14 AM
To improve your play in the pocket, the offensive line has to actually give you a pocket.

Gay Ork Wang
01-06-2010, 04:03 AM
Im still flabbergasted about the comment that Bowman is maybe the best man corner on the team. He was terrible almost all year which was why he was targeted so much which resulted i nthose picks

Hurricane Ditka
01-06-2010, 08:50 AM
If we hire Martz they better plan on getting rid of that god awful field, the greatest show on dirt doesn't sound very appealing.

BeerBaron
01-06-2010, 03:27 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/06/charlie-armey-mike-martz-would-ruin-jay-cutler/

This is exactly what i've been saying. Glad to hear it from a legit source. Just say "no" to Mike Martz.

regoob2
01-06-2010, 05:29 PM
Find me a successful NFL offense where the QB plays primarily out of the pocket and that statistic will mean a ****. As it stands, he needs to improve his play in the pocket, where NFL quarterbacks make the majority of their reads.
Because he's inconsistent against the run and gets overpowered by bigger OL and gets no pass rush.

regoob2
01-06-2010, 05:30 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/06/charlie-armey-mike-martz-would-ruin-jay-cutler/

This is exactly what i've been saying. Glad to hear it from a legit source. Just say "no" to Mike Martz.
Wow those are some strong words.

Smokey Joe
01-06-2010, 05:48 PM
Al Saunders for OC, please. He'd be a much better fit than Martz, but fits what we need to do on offense. We could then perhaps look at Jeremy Bates as a QB coach instead.

I really don't love the idea of Bates as OC considering he's never been a full time OC before and just because he works well with Cutler shouldn't mean he should be the OC.

BeerBaron
01-06-2010, 09:00 PM
Al Saunders for OC, please. He'd be a much better fit than Martz, but fits what we need to do on offense. We could then perhaps look at Jeremy Bates as a QB coach instead.

I really don't love the idea of Bates as OC considering he's never been a full time OC before and just because he works well with Cutler shouldn't mean he should be the OC.

He's the best name I've heard to date. And he's been coordinating at USC this year...limited scope and only in college, I know, but hopefully he learned a thing or two from Shanny in their time together.

Plus, maybe he'd come in and see what we have on offense, and build a system around them rather than try to force what we have into his already established system.....we'll see I suppose.

My wish is that we find someone who will be able to work with Cutler's strengths, building an offense suited to them, and also help sure up the many areas of weakness Cutler and the offense have.

The future success of this team, for probably the next 3-4 years at least, all rides with Cutler.

SFbear
01-07-2010, 12:36 PM
You know I realize our problems on defense have been mostly due to a lack of talent and possibly a failure to make proper adjustments but Lovie needs to stop getting pissy anytime someone questions his philosophy. I understand him being emotionally defensive because his job is on the line but he had an almost "how dare you question what we do on defense" vibe to him.

He needs to realize that a 3 year decline in defensive production justifies these questions and that this defense was at its best when his defensive coordinator was someone he didn't hand pick and was from a different philosophy altogether. Coincidentally or not our defensive production has been inversely proportional to his influence over it.

bearfan
01-07-2010, 01:45 PM
I would disagree that it is lack of talent. I think every one of the guys that started on defense this year has talent and potential, but where the problem lies in my eyes is that they are under achieving and not living up to that potential. A prime example of this is our defensive line. We know there is talent there...they just are not living up to it.

I agree that Lovie needs to make changes though. I said to my friend when we were watching the press conference that I felt bad for him because he believes in his system so much, yet it has been failing him. He needs to realize that he needs to make changes in order to keep his job.

BeerBaron
01-07-2010, 02:12 PM
Does the defense have some raw talent to work with? Heck yeah. But it just hasn't been working out lately.....

When we get a defensive leader like Urlacher back from injury, that will help. Yeah, he was looking old the last few years and wasn't the pro bowler he was early in his career, but he seems to have the respect of the other members of the defense and having him back will hopefully help to gel some of the young guys who have the talent but haven't been putting it all together.

And you know, maybe I'm just seeing things, but did Lance Briggs look a bit slower this year? I noticed it especially in the Monday night Vikings game...plays he used to always make he seemed to be a step or two behind in that game. Idk...

And we need out young d-lineman to step up....trading a 2nd for Gaines Adams was a desperation move by JA, and we'll see how he fits into things after a full offseason in the system.

We also need a FS who can cover.....I think just about every DB on the roster has been stuck back there at one time or another, and none of the have produced very well. We have several adequate SSs but not one FS...and not having a draft pick in the first two rounds doesn't help. I'm tired of throwing mid round selections at the spot only to end up with another average guy. I really think that is one spot we should try to address via FA.

bearsfan_51
01-07-2010, 05:21 PM
Because he's inconsistent against the run and gets overpowered by bigger OL and gets no pass rush.
What the **** are you talking about?

dabears10
01-07-2010, 06:38 PM
What the **** are you talking about?

I think he is saying that Ron Turner doesn't have a great motor playing DE.

bearsfan_51
01-07-2010, 06:52 PM
Oh..I agree.

regoob2
01-07-2010, 10:14 PM
What the **** are you talking about?
What games are you watching? Adams is a body and can take on a blocker, thats it.

dabears10
01-07-2010, 10:23 PM
What games are you watching? Adams is a body and can take on a blocker, thats it.

Ah, I see. You quoted the wrong BF51 post.

regoob2
01-07-2010, 10:29 PM
Ah, I see. You quoted the wrong BF51 post.
I dont think so.

dabears10
01-07-2010, 10:36 PM
I dont think so.

Find me a successful NFL offense where the QB plays primarily out of the pocket and that statistic will mean a ****. As it stands, he needs to improve his play in the pocket, where NFL quarterbacks make the majority of their reads.

You quoted this. Just scroll up and you can see.

regoob2
01-07-2010, 10:42 PM
You quoted this. Just scroll up and you can see.
Ah. Touche. Thank you. lol. I was talking about Anthony Adams.

Hurricane Ditka
01-11-2010, 09:43 AM
Cross Bates off the list. I hope we go still the Denver style offense though, Rick Dennision, Jedd Fisch, Tom Clements, that guy from Tennessee, just not Mike Martz.

BeerBaron
01-11-2010, 10:48 AM
Cross Bates off the list. I hope we go still the Denver style offense though, Rick Dennision, Jedd Fisch, Tom Clements, that guy from Tennessee, just not Mike Martz.

Aye. It's been a loooooong time since 2001, and every stop he's made since then has been a failure.

BeerBaron
01-11-2010, 11:31 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/11/zorn-among-names-mentioned-for-bears-job/

Jim Zorn
Kevin Gilbride (?)
Bill Musgrave
Jedd Fisch

Among the possibles other than Martz. Fisch worked with Cutler in Denver like Bates did.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2010, 11:36 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/11/zorn-among-names-mentioned-for-bears-job/

Jim Zorn
Kevin Gilbride (?)
Bill Musgrave
Jedd Fisch

Among the possibles other than Martz. Fisch worked with Cutler in Denver like Bates did.

Gilbride is on contract until after this upcoming year. The rumors of his contract being up were supposedly a mistake.

The only way you get Gilbride is if he becomes the HC, which clearly isn't happening so he's a healthy scratch.

Gilbride would be terrible for Chicago anyway. He runs a choice route offense that requires a lot from the qb mentally. Cutler isn't that type of qb. He needs a WCO, which is nice and simple in route tree and reads.

Hurricane Ditka
01-12-2010, 11:59 AM
The chances of us signing a quality offensive coordinator seem to be growing slimmer and slimmer, and the list of candidates beings to look like a who's who of retreads and so-so's. This isn't looking good. Hopefully after they get a defensive coordinator in place they'll get serious about finding a competent offensive coordinator.

We can low ball Daniel Manning and still get a second in compensation if a team signs him to an offer sheet right? We need some way of getting back into the top of this draft. Seeing as we're in win-now mode, I wouldn't be surprised if we let go of next year's first to do it.

shady00
01-12-2010, 01:18 PM
If Mike Iupati is still there in the 2nd, I'd flip a 2011 1st to get him.

regoob2
01-12-2010, 09:07 PM
If Mike Iupati is still there in the 2nd, I'd flip a 2011 1st to get him.
Not a chance Id do that. We could have a top 5 pick.

MidwayMonster31
01-12-2010, 09:13 PM
That #1 in 2011 might be all we have to look forward to next season. I'm hoping for AJ Green.
Iupati is a quality player, but I think we can get good starters (1 free agent, 1 draft pick, Mitch Petrus maybe) and still be okay.

Hurricane Ditka
01-13-2010, 09:50 AM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/bears-interview-bengals-qb-coach-for-coordinator-opening.html

We interviewed the Bengals Qb coach, sounds intriguing.

As for giving up the 2011 first, Phillips, Angelo and Lovie are all in win now. With the looming work stoppage, and all 3 of their jobs on the line it would make sense for them to try and secure an impact player now. I wouldn't be surprised if it were some sort of offensive weapon, ie a big tall wide receiver. Since the offense is taking the fall for this season's failures Jerry will make the move he should have made last year and get a receiver with "sprinkles".

I wouldn't trade next years first and draft an offensive lineman though, because he most likely wouldn't help us win now. And quality lineman can be found in the later rounds.

Mr. X
01-13-2010, 01:32 PM
I'd be up for us trading our first round pick of 2011 for one of the top WRs in this class, or a true #1 vet who would be a good fit in the system.

EDIT:

Maybe it is just the homer in me, but I'd really like to see us push to land Arrelious Benn. I think he could be an immediate play maker on the squad and would add a good combo of size, speed, and toughness that we could really use.

SFbear
01-13-2010, 03:43 PM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/bears-interview-bengals-qb-coach-for-coordinator-opening.html

We interviewed the Bengals Qb coach, sounds intriguing.



Its strange that supposedly he came on Martz's recommendation which must mean that Martz must have been informed he is not under consideration. Martz was also the one who recommended Terry Shea for Lovie when he started out here. It's a little weird that Lovie keeps looking for input from MM but isn't even considering him. Why not go with the experienced guy who is available and interested rather than his inexperienced former assistant?

BeerBaron
01-13-2010, 04:08 PM
Its strange that supposedly he came on Martz's recommendation which must mean that Martz must have been informed he is not under consideration. Martz was also the one who recommended Terry Shea for Lovie when he started out here. It's a little weird that Lovie keeps looking for input from MM but isn't even considering him. Why not go with the experienced guy who is available and interested rather than his inexperienced former assistant?

Because Martz has flamed out in his past two gigs trying to install his extensive scheme with less than suitable talent in San Fran and Detroit.....and I'd consider what we have outside of Cutler "less than suitable" for his scheme.

Someone new might be willing to work more with what we have rather than try to force everyone into his system.

Hurricane Ditka
01-14-2010, 09:37 AM
I'd take that to mean Martz isn't really in the running, as much as he'd like to be. Lovie should go Tennessee, and take Bob Babich and everyone not named Dave Toub with him.

bearsfan_51
01-14-2010, 11:40 AM
Mike Tice!!!

Smokey Joe
01-14-2010, 11:48 AM
Perry Fewell to New York... this should come to no surprise to anyone.

Now, we will probably bring in Joe Barry (Marinelli's son in law, DC for Marinelli in Detroit, and another Tampa 2 disciple) for an interview.

I really don't see how the D will change at all next year, Lovie still has the final say with the defense, and the guy is to stupid and stuborn to make a change with his schemes.

Smokey Joe
01-14-2010, 11:51 AM
Mike Tice!!!
Tight Ends coach, I wouldnt mind. OC, excuse me while I barf.

SFbear
01-14-2010, 12:40 PM
Mike Tice!!!

I was under the impression that since he is an assistant HC, we can't hire him for anything less than HC. Same thing with Marinelli when we tried to grab him from Tampa as a DC and they gave him the assistant HC title to lock him down.

BeerBaron
01-14-2010, 12:45 PM
I was under the impression that since he is an assistant HC, we can't hire him for anything less than HC. Same thing with Marinelli when we tried to grab him from Tampa as a DC and they gave him the assistant HC title to lock him down.

We can hire him if the Jaguars gave him permission to interview. The rule only applies to assistants interviewing for the HC job. Even the guys who get the Associate/Assistant HC title had to get permission from their current team.

Smokey Joe
01-14-2010, 12:59 PM
Yeah, the assistant HC title is just there to basically give the coach a raise to keep him happy.

Monomach
01-14-2010, 02:39 PM
Tight Ends coach, I wouldnt mind. OC, excuse me while I barf.

He's not going to leave Jacksonville to take the same position in Chicago, so I'd keep that barf bag close by if I were you.

Monomach
01-14-2010, 02:55 PM
I take it back.

Reading this (http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=6486), it looks like they're pushing him as O line coach. They don't actually say that, but it's basically an entire article on Bears.com all about the old Minny O line.

Strange.

Hurricane Ditka
01-14-2010, 03:06 PM
He might come here under the title of Oline Coach/Run Game Coach, with Zampese as Playcaller/Pass Game Coach.

TitleTown088
01-14-2010, 03:19 PM
Cross Bates off the list. I hope we go still the Denver style offense though, Rick Dennision, Jedd Fisch, Tom Clements, that guy from Tennessee, just not Mike Martz.

No soup for you! ;)

Monomach
01-14-2010, 10:21 PM
http://www.giants.com/news/headlines/story.asp?story_id=43935

Perry Fewell is not coming to Chicago.

I'm kind of happy about that. I want someone who isn't Lovie's BFF. I want someone with Jerry Angelo's backing who is willing to stand up to Lovie.

Smokey Joe
01-15-2010, 12:59 AM
Lovie has complete control over the coaching staff and shares GM duties with Angelo. You can thank the great Ted Phillips and him getting ass raped in negotions for a contract extension with Lovie for that one.

Monomach
01-15-2010, 01:51 AM
Lovie has complete control over the coaching staff and shares GM duties with Angelo. You can thank the great Ted Phillips and him getting ass raped in negotions for a contract extension with Lovie for that one.

He can't have too much control anymore. After all, they stripped him of playcalling duties and fired some of his buddies. JA even let it loose that he has approval over the OC when he said that choosing one would be the biggest decision he's made since hiring Lovie. ;)

Saying "this happens or we do go ahead and fire you" does get some of the control back from him. It's a big stick to be able to hold over his head.

Getting fired isn't so bad. Getting fired and having your old team say that you were an unreasonable twat has to give him pause.

Monomach
01-15-2010, 02:53 AM
I wonder whether Al Davis would get excited enough about Hester's speed to give us Michael Bush for him.

The man has 3 RBs and less than 53 guys who run fast. The Bears could use a really good physical guy to split carries with Forte. Rich man's Kahlil Bell and all that. Match made in heaven.

Smokey Joe
01-15-2010, 01:54 PM
I would do that deal in a heartbeat. Bush is soooooo good, but gets screwed over because Al needs McFadden to get all the carries.

Monomach
01-15-2010, 04:14 PM
http://twitter.com/ChicagoBearscom/status/7803429588

Mike Tice is the new O-line coach.

Kinda think we should have gotten an OC first to decide what blocking scheme he wants to use. If it's zone, Tice didn't coach that in Minny.

BeerBaron
01-15-2010, 05:42 PM
http://twitter.com/ChicagoBearscom/status/7803429588

Mike Tice is the new O-line coach.

Kinda think we should have gotten an OC first to decide what blocking scheme he wants to use. If it's zone, Tice didn't coach that in Minny.

I'm thinking that we have an idea for who we want, but can't get him quite yet. Maybe someone on the staff of a team still in the playoffs.

Otherwise, I don't think we would have brought in an offensive assistant yet.

Or, maybe Tice is a backup option for the coordinator job in case we can't get the guy we really want.

MidwayMonster31
01-15-2010, 06:44 PM
Could've done worse, I guess.
If we're waiting for playoff teams, I would definitely welcome Joe Lombardi from the Saints. Even though I doubt it will happen.

BeerBaron
01-15-2010, 07:01 PM
Could've done worse, I guess.
If we're waiting for playoff teams, I would definitely welcome Joe Lombardi from the Saints. Even though I doubt it will happen.

They have a WR coach, Curtis Johnson, who intrigues me as well. I have no idea what his playcalling background (if any) might be, but he has really developed some stud WRs in New Orleans now and before that, in Miami with guys like Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson.

We definitely have some talent at the WR spot, but it's all young and inexperienced. I'd like to see what he could do with them.

BeerBaron
01-16-2010, 03:06 PM
I'm thinking that we have an idea for who we want, but can't get him quite yet. Maybe someone on the staff of a team still in the playoffs.

Otherwise, I don't think we would have brought in an offensive assistant yet.

Or, maybe Tice is a backup option for the coordinator job in case we can't get the guy we really want.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/16/chudzinski-could-be-candidate-for-bears-job/

Maybe I was right.....Chargers TE coach Chudzinski, former Browns o-coordinator who turned Anderson into a pro bowler.

Monomach
01-16-2010, 03:31 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/16/chudzinski-could-be-candidate-for-bears-job/

Maybe I was right.....Chargers TE coach Chudzinski, former Browns o-coordinator who turned Anderson into a pro bowler.

If he's the guy responsible for Anderson, I don't want him at all. Anderson was positively Grossmanish that year with the alternating good games and trash games.

He was Anderson's coordinator in 2008, too, when he was dog crap.

I'm askeered. Sounds like a legit Bear move. :(

I'll take Zampese or Chaney over that any day.

Hurricane Ditka
01-16-2010, 05:05 PM
If we're gonna raid the Chargers I'd rather see John Ramsdell, their QB coach, nothing about coaching the Browns offense inspires hope. I like the Tice hire, hopefully he gets our run game in order, and gets Chris Williams playing at a higher level. I think this means whoever our offensive coordinator will be he will be a pass specialist. Similar to Denver in 08, with Tice coaching the run game and the oc hire coaching the pass game.

bearsfan_51
01-17-2010, 12:14 AM
Chud wasn't the problem when he was in Cleveland. Crennel got canned because the defense sucked. Chud actually got Drew Anderson to the Pro Bowl. That alone makes him a worthy candidate in my book.

Monomach
01-17-2010, 12:32 AM
Chud wasn't the problem when he was in Cleveland. Crennel got canned because the defense sucked. Chud actually got Drew Anderson to the Pro Bowl. That alone makes him a worthy candidate in my book.

See, the thing about this is...Crennel's defense was #16 in points allowed the season he got canned. That's the definition of average. Chud's offense, on the other hand, was #30. That IS a problem.

07 Browns points scored
7 vs Steelers (#2 defense)
51 vs Bengals (#24 defense)
24 vs Raiders (#26 defense)
27 vs Ravens (#22 defense)
17 vs Patriots (#4 defense)
41 vs Dolphins (#30 defense)
27 vs Rams (#31 defense)
33 vs Seahawks (#6 defense)
28 vs Steelers (#2 defense)
33 vs Ravens (#22 defense)
27 vs Texans (#22 defense)
21 vs Cardinals (#27 defense)
24 vs Jets (#19 defense)
8 vs Bills (#18 defense)
14 vs Bengals (#24 defense)
20 vs 49ers (#20 defense)

So that team had one of the weakest schedules in the modern era and just put up stats against some horrible defenses. They only played 4 games against defenses that were league-average or better. One year later we have the same players, same coaches, but a schedule that isn't full of dogs and...they drop from #8 to #30.

Chud had a perfect storm that made a horrible backup QB look good for one season under him. Kind of like Ron Turner 1995.

The damndest thing about that season is that even with weak opponents, Anderson looked like a steaming pile of crap in every other game. A lot of the points they scored were in spite of him. This is not someone I want to let into even the same room as my franchise QB.

Want him for TE coach? Cool. He's coached some good ones. Probably be hard to get him from SD for that, though. Norv is a lot safer than Lovie.

Smokey Joe
01-17-2010, 12:38 AM
Dont forget, the Browns OLine played incredibly well that year and was arguably the best OLine in the NFL. Anderson had so much time to throw, you or I could have gotten open by the time DA felt any pressure.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
01-17-2010, 01:54 PM
Theres nothing I can say to soften this so I wont waste your time but do we get that 2nd rounder back for Gaines Adams? Atleast a comp pick right?

Hurricane Ditka
01-17-2010, 01:56 PM
Theres nothing I can say to soften this so I wont waste your time but do we get that 2nd rounder back for Gaines Adams? Atleast a comp pick right?

I don't think we do, but I think we should. Especially if anyone in Tampa knew about his heart condition.

BeerBaron
01-17-2010, 02:29 PM
We won't get anything....A comp pick from the NFL would be nice but they don't do anything like that to my knowledge.

This just sucks from every possible angle.

MidwayMonster31
01-17-2010, 05:26 PM
They didn't do that for Sean Taylor or Darrent Williams, and I doubt that they will do that for Chris Henry. It does suck. RIP

regoob2
01-17-2010, 06:54 PM
Of course were not going to get a pick back but shouldnt someone have looked into this enlarged heart?

MidwayMonster31
01-17-2010, 07:36 PM
Of course were not going to get a pick back but shouldnt someone have looked into this enlarged heart?Players always have a physical before a trade is officially complete. I agree, they should have heart exams as part of the physical.

regoob2
01-17-2010, 07:39 PM
Players always have a physical before a trade is officially complete. I agree, they should have heart exams as part of the physical.
Does anyone remember what Eddy Curry' heart problem was?

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
01-17-2010, 07:44 PM
They didn't do that for Sean Taylor or Darrent Williams, and I doubt that they will do that for Chris Henry. It does suck. RIP

Not really the same circumstance. We traded for him just 3 monthes ago.

regoob2
01-17-2010, 07:51 PM
Not really the same circumstance. We traded for him just 3 monthes ago.
I doesnt matter. They cant just give us a pick because they feel bad for us. Its just a terrible situation.

Monomach
01-18-2010, 12:25 AM
Not really the same circumstance. We traded for him just 3 monthes ago.

Players don't come with a factory warranty. When you drive them off the lot, that's it. They're yours.

Hurricane Ditka
01-18-2010, 11:25 AM
I did some searching for what kind of offense we could expect if we brought in Chuszinski here's what I found", it's from the start of the 2008 season:


"Rob Chudzinski has more talent to work with than any Cleveland offensive coordinator in recent memory, and he isn't shy about using it. The Browns' aggressive vertical passing game and power run game complement each other well, and an offensive line that excels at both run blocking and pass protection gives Chudzinski full use of his playbook. He can use a lot of shifts and formation changes to confuse defenses, and his players now seem to have a complete understanding of the sophisticated scheme"



Sounds like what we want to accomplish. Although if we're going to be sticking with a "power" run game, we're gonna need a competent second runner. I'm holding out hope for Chester Taylor, or that LT becomes a cap-free causality. If we're looking to install a high powered offense we could use a true #1 WR, a competent #2 RB, and an upgrade somewhere on the offensive line.

Hopefully Tice gets to do some evaluation and gets everyone on the line playing where they should. I think this means kicking Omiyale out to right tackle, and putting Beekman/Louis at left guard.

BeerBaron
01-18-2010, 11:30 AM
LT looked pathetic yesterday, and is coming off of his worst season as a pro.....I'd rather go the route of a late round power back than spend money on him.

And Chester Taylor would just give us an older, probably more expensive version of what we already have in Forte I feel.

Hurricane Ditka
01-18-2010, 11:40 AM
I think LT could use a change of scenery, and for the reasons you've given probably won't demand that high of a price tag. We wouldn't be asking him to carry the load, but I think we would be perfectly utilized as a 3rd Down/Change of pace back. A late round power back isn't what we need, we've got basically that in Kahlil Bell. I'd rather go with the home run threat, something we've been lacking in the run game for a while. A 65/35 split in carries between Forte and LT would keep both of them fresh, and with both of their pass catching ability we'd keep defenses on their toes.

MidwayMonster31
01-18-2010, 12:31 PM
LT was always a good red zone running back. He finds ways to get yards that Forte never can get in that area. Either one would work fine between LT and Taylor.

BeerBaron
01-18-2010, 01:15 PM
I'm not sure on LT still....we'll have to see how things unfold early in FA if he is released.

Btw, it sounds like we're still not going to resign Ogun. I thought it might happen now with Adams dieing, but it seems like we're going to bank on Marinelli developing Melton and Gilbert to fill the voids. I hope that works out, since I'd like to see out earliest picks used to address the o-line. Starting caliber guards and centers can still be had in the 3rd round usually. I'd prefer to see us go that direction than anywhere else.

Hurricane Ditka
01-18-2010, 03:19 PM
Who knows, there might be more talent on the free agent market than we expect due to teams dumping alot of overpaid players. Hopefully a quality DE lands on the market.

As much as like to see grab a quality OL with our first pick, it doesn't fall in line with our win now attitude. I think this means in typical Jerry Angelo fashion, making the top move a year too late. I think we'll trade up for a guy with #1 WR potential. (in a dream world it'd be Benn, can you imagine a guy with that much talent at Jay Cutler's disposal?). I do think however we'll pick up an T/G or a G/C with one of our early picks. I'd like to see if Tice can develop Lance Louis, and James Marten. Marten's a intruiging RT project, he walked into an OT logjam in Dallas and couldn't get on the field in Oakland. Maybe with Tice's direction we'll have made another practice squad find. Louis and Marten could be the future of the right side of our line.

nrk
01-18-2010, 06:17 PM
Dusty Dvoracek got arrested this weekend. Being charged with public intox, assault and battery, and interfering with an official process. How disappointing like his career so far.

http://okblitz.com/Article.aspx?id=15098

Hurricane Ditka
01-18-2010, 11:44 PM
Chances are his career "so far", is just going to be his career.

Hurricane Ditka
01-19-2010, 12:01 AM
Are any of the Colts defensive position coaches ready to be d-coordinator? Their linebackers coach and d-line both have 8+ years in Cover 2, and they were able to bring the scheme forward a little bit. I'd hope we at least interview one of them, I'm sure one of them comes Dungy recommended, which should be enough for Lovie.

The Colts Jets game has an interesting storyline, given the two teams drasticaly different routes of getting there. The Jets playing smash mouth football and solid defense, on the other side you've got Peyton Manning writing the book on how to play quarterback.

BeerBaron
01-19-2010, 12:05 AM
The Colts Jets game has an interesting storyline, given the two teams drasticaly different routes of getting there. The Jets playing smash mouth football and solid defense, on the other side you've got Peyton Manning writing the book on how to play quarterback.

He's just updating and revising the book Marino wrote years ago....

Hurricane Ditka
01-19-2010, 03:34 PM
Is there any chance Maurkice Pouncey will there when we pick in the third. Tice has a reputation of developing C's, and then we'd have a sure fire replacement for Kruetz.

Hurricane Ditka
01-19-2010, 11:05 PM
This is pure speculation but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we draft Tony Washington, keep the ACU going, and he actually plays a position of need.

regoob2
01-21-2010, 07:40 AM
Is there any chance Maurkice Pouncey will there when we pick in the third. Tice has a reputation of developing C's, and then we'd have a sure fire replacement for Kruetz.
Could be. He'd be a good fit and good value if he was there.

Also the apparently the Redskins received a 3rd round comp pick for Sean Taylor after he died. I dont see why we wouldnt receive the same.

Monomach
01-21-2010, 04:01 PM
Could be. He'd be a good fit and good value if he was there.

Also the apparently the Redskins received a 3rd round comp pick for Sean Taylor after he died. I dont see why we wouldnt receive the same.

They got a third round comp pick because Derrick Dockery signed a 50 million dollar contract with Buffalo.

BeerBaron
01-21-2010, 04:04 PM
They got a third round comp pick because Derrick Dockery signed a 50 million dollar contract with Buffalo.

Yeah, I was going to say, I'm pretty sure that had nothing to do with Sean Taylor....

bearsfan_51
01-21-2010, 06:31 PM
Am I the only one that gets very uncomfortable talking about getting a draft pick for a guy that ******* died?

I realize none of us actually knew the guy. I realize it sucks we gave up a draft pick for a guy who gave us nothing. I realize all that. But COME THE **** ON. The guy is dead at 26 years old. The fact that we don't get a draft pick is pretty low on the list of things that suck about that.

Monomach
01-21-2010, 07:11 PM
Am I the only one that gets very uncomfortable talking about getting a draft pick for a guy that ******* died?

I realize none of us actually knew the guy. I realize it sucks we gave up a draft pick for a guy who gave us nothing. I realize all that. But COME THE **** ON. The guy is dead at 26 years old. The fact that we don't get a draft pick is pretty low on the list of things that suck about that.

You may be. I, for one, don't care one bit. He's just some guy. "Some guy" dies thousands of times each day.

I'm perfectly comfortable with the folks in the forum who were joking about how Gaines was a great guy with a big heart (I laughed again just typing it). Death is a comedic gold mine.

If you're religious, it's no big deal because he gets to go to "a better place." If that's the case, you should be happy he's dead because after all, he's movin' on up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9y4iXAso4I), right? Deluxe apartment in the sky, indeed (see? I laughed again). If you're not, then death is still no big deal because it just happens. Getting all broken up over it serves no purpose. It makes no one's life better. When I become worm food, it'll be no big deal, because it happens to everyone.

Now the Bears...their success is more important than a death. Their success can cause happiness in several million people's lives. Forcing yourself to be all sad about a death of some fella causes happiness in zero lives.

regoob2
01-21-2010, 07:52 PM
Am I the only one that gets very uncomfortable talking about getting a draft pick for a guy that ******* died?

I realize none of us actually knew the guy. I realize it sucks we gave up a draft pick for a guy who gave us nothing. I realize all that. But COME THE **** ON. The guy is dead at 26 years old. The fact that we don't get a draft pick is pretty low on the list of things that suck about that.
At first I felt that way but you have to move on. I absolutely feel bad but I read on another site that the Redskins received the top 3rd round comp pick for the death of Taylor. Its obviously bad info.

regoob2
01-21-2010, 07:54 PM
You may be. I, for one, don't care one bit. He's just some guy. "Some guy" dies thousands of times each day.

I'm perfectly comfortable with the folks in the forum who were joking about how Gaines was a great guy with a big heart (I laughed again just typing it). Death is a comedic gold mine.

If you're religious, it's no big deal because he gets to go to "a better place." If that's the case, you should be happy he's dead because after all, he's movin' on up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9y4iXAso4I), right? Deluxe apartment in the sky, indeed (see? I laughed again). If you're not, then death is still no big deal because it just happens. Getting all broken up over it serves no purpose. It makes no one's life better. When I become worm food, it'll be no big deal, because it happens to everyone.

Now the Bears...their success is more important than a death. Their success can cause happiness in several million people's lives. Forcing yourself to be all sad about a death of some fella causes happiness in zero lives.
I laughed at the big heart thing. I also neg repped someone in the thread about this the day that it happened for calling him and "official bust' cause of it.

Smokey Joe
01-23-2010, 02:48 AM
Am I the only one that gets very uncomfortable talking about getting a draft pick for a guy that ******* died?

I realize none of us actually knew the guy. I realize it sucks we gave up a draft pick for a guy who gave us nothing. I realize all that. But COME THE **** ON. The guy is dead at 26 years old. The fact that we don't get a draft pick is pretty low on the list of things that suck about that.
So... just because he was some random guy who happened to play in the NFL, we shouldnt talk about the implications to the team because he died?

Please, tragedies happen all the time. I truly feel sorry for him and his family, 26 is way too young to go. However, there are other tragic deaths and incidents that NEVER get reported. Or how about what just happened in Haiti? That is much more tragic than a single person's death, should we stop playing football? No.

Cause in all honesty, while we feel sorry and sadness when we hear these stories, it really doesnt affect us one bit.

People die, **** happens... but life goes on.

BeerBaron
01-23-2010, 11:25 AM
It's really a ****** situation in every possible way. That's how I'm viewing it anyway...

bearsfan_51
01-23-2010, 12:24 PM
So... just because he was some random guy who happened to play in the NFL, we shouldnt talk about the implications to the team because he died?
It's one thing to talk about the implications, it's entirely another to talk about things we would get in return because he died.

If someone in my company died, even if I don't know who he is, my first thought wouldn't be "I hope I get a bonus out of this."

regoob2
01-23-2010, 04:56 PM
It's one thing to talk about the implications, it's entirely another to talk about things we would get in return because he died.

If someone in my company died, even if I don't know who he is, my first thought wouldn't be "I hope I get a bonus out of this."
Who said that? That's completely different. That's a horrible comparison. :rolleyes:

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
01-24-2010, 12:47 PM
Dan Pompei says Chud is a no go. This is getting depressing.

bearsfan_51
01-24-2010, 12:53 PM
Who said that? That's completely different. That's a horrible comparison. :rolleyes:
Assuming you are being serious, it's an almost direct comparison. Someone died and we're asking what we get in compensation because he's dead. How is that different?

Hurricane Ditka
01-24-2010, 01:03 PM
Dan Pompei says Chud is a no go. This is getting depressing.

It sure is. It's like their playing lets see how fast we can ruin Jay Cutler.

regoob2
01-24-2010, 02:03 PM
Assuming you are being serious, it's an almost direct comparison. Someone died and we're asking what we get in compensation because he's dead. How is that different?
You're acting like people are saying oh goodey he died. How high of a pick can we get. At some point its a legit question. You're not the only one who feels bad that he died.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
01-24-2010, 02:25 PM
The way I look at it, is the only reason I would like what we have to call "compensation" is because the trade itself seems voided. Not because he died, but because he had a pre-existing medical condition, and as we all know, you can not trade an injured player.

Im not asking for the 2nd rounder back, but since he shouldn't have been traded in the first place, we deserve something.

[edit] I know they had no knowledge of his condition btw, but trade terms are intended to impede this type of situation.