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bearsfan_51
12-15-2007, 01:25 PM
Mike Brown isn't even worth the roster spot that he takes up before the final cuts. He should retire. It's over.

bearfan
12-15-2007, 01:45 PM
but he is a force. Bob Sanders is the same kind i think and he is a great player. U dont have to pay him that big money but keep him

He is a force...when healthy. That is rare now-a-days. Like 51 said, he should retire. Its one injury after another with him.

Gay Ork Wang
12-15-2007, 02:33 PM
hmm...k
what is the bigger risk? Safety, OL, QB, RB with the first round pick?

bearsfan_51
12-15-2007, 04:12 PM
I'm not sure what you're asking, which position is the weakest or which is the position most risky to draft for?

I think the position we are weakest at is safety. That said, it's not as important as LT or QB, so I would put it 3rd on my priority list. Of the two between LT and QB, it would just depend on the value to me. If one of the top 3 quarterbacks is available I would bite, as the value drops off drastically after that. A good LT could potentially be found in the 2nd round and at worst we would have a good RT and have Tait and LT for another year.

Honestly, if we shored up the RT position that would help Tait as well, because we could put the TE or shift the runningback over to his side more often.

Runningback is probably a 4th concern to me, that or WR.

Gay Ork Wang
12-15-2007, 05:20 PM
I meant risky. Is there a lot of high risk high reward prospects out there? Is it better to go riskier sometimes than to go conservative? Im not really familiar with the draft prospects due to the fact that i cant watch any college games.

btw Bf51 if u had to choose between Jake Long and 1 of the 3 QBs...who?

bearsfan_51
12-15-2007, 05:26 PM
I meant risky. Is there a lot of high risk high reward prospects out there? Is it better to go riskier sometimes than to go conservative? Im not really familiar with the draft prospects due to the fact that i cant watch any college games.

btw Bf51 if u had to choose between Jake Long and 1 of the 3 QBs...who?

I don't really buy the risk/reward argument based on position. Look at Robert Gallery. Sure-fire lock pick at offensive tackle and he turns into a bust. Tony Mandarich is another example.

As to your second question, I would probably take Long, but I don't view that as a realistic option considering it's almost impossible we'll pick higher than 9th or 10th.

sweetness34
12-16-2007, 02:37 PM
I think we'll lose our next two games and win our last one to go 6-10 personally...Look for AP to go for 400 yards against us tomorrow night, Green Bay is a machine right now...but I think we can take New Orleans in the snow and cold.

Gay Ork Wang
12-16-2007, 04:06 PM
what happens if the Bears win out, the Vikings, the Lions, Saints, Arz and Was lose 2 or out?

Smokey Joe
12-16-2007, 04:17 PM
washington needs to lose all 3 since they hold the tiebreaker with us... Saints, Cards, and Vikings, I don't know.

Gay Ork Wang
12-16-2007, 04:47 PM
not like it matters, just curious

looks like Wolfe is getting more involved

k0ng
12-16-2007, 10:00 PM
I'm not sure what you're asking, which position is the weakest or which is the position most risky to draft for?

I think the position we are weakest at is safety. That said, it's not as important as LT or QB, so I would put it 3rd on my priority list. Of the two between LT and QB, it would just depend on the value to me. If one of the top 3 quarterbacks is available I would bite, as the value drops off drastically after that. A good LT could potentially be found in the 2nd round and at worst we would have a good RT and have Tait and LT for another year.

Honestly, if we shored up the RT position that would help Tait as well, because we could put the TE or shift the runningback over to his side more often.

Runningback is probably a 4th concern to me, that or WR.

If Kenny Phillips is there for us in the first, we gotta grab him. We should also bring Mike Brown back for one more year. Put a clause in his contract regarding injuries or something. I'd feel so much better about this team going into next season with Brown and Phillips are our starting safeties. OT,RB,OG,QB,DT/WR after that.

Smokey Joe
12-16-2007, 10:24 PM
If Kenny Phillips is there for us in the first, we gotta grab him. We should also bring Mike Brown back for one more year. Put a clause in his contract regarding injuries or something. I'd feel so much better about this team going into next season with Brown and Phillips are our starting safeties. OT,RB,OG,QB,DT/WR after that.
If we draft Phillips, there would be absolutely no reason to spend money on Brown.

djp
12-17-2007, 12:37 PM
I'm down by one point and can start either Olsen or Clark tonight.. who is Orton going to throw to more? Who is more likely to get ONE catch? Not the most points, but ONE CATCH?

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT

bearsfan_51
12-17-2007, 12:40 PM
I'm down by one point and can start either Olsen or Clark tonight.. who is Orton going to throw to more? Who is more likely to get ONE catch? Not the most points, but ONE CATCH?

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT
Clark

(char)

toonsterwu
12-17-2007, 12:41 PM
I'm down by one point and can start either Olsen or Clark tonight.. who is Orton going to throw to more? Who is more likely to get ONE catch? Not the most points, but ONE CATCH?

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT

I would lean Clark. He's the safer bet. It's not as if Orton had that much time to develop a rapport with Olsen, which might've been a factor. That said, I expect both to play a role tonight working against those linebackers.

djp
12-17-2007, 12:42 PM
What's the reasoning behind it? I know Clark has gotten more looks recently but Sportsline and Yahoo rank Olsen ahead of Clark in terms of TE rankings... I'm split.

djp
12-17-2007, 12:43 PM
Thanks toon, I'll probably go with Clark for that very reason, I was just puzzled on why two major fantasy outlets ranked Olsen ahead, clearly he's more talented but Clark has been getting the reps lately.

I was very tempted to go with my Miami brethren though.

bearsfan_51
12-17-2007, 01:22 PM
Olsen is probably ranked higher because he's more of a redzone threat, but if all you need is one catch Clark is the safer bet.

bearsfan_51
12-18-2007, 03:00 AM
If the season ended today we'd be picking 10th and 40th in the first two rounds.

Assuming we can get one of the three signal-callers with the 1st pick, I've eliminated the top 32 players from Scouts Inc (a reasonable list) and added an aditional 7 that I doubt will be available by the early 2nd.

The most obvious name left would be Chris Williams, which would be a pretty nice grab at the top of the 2nd. I'm not a huge fan but considering the need and value I'd be happy with a Woodson/Williams combination. You could probably throw Tony Hills and Barry Richardson in there as well. Gosder Cherlius would be an outside chance of falling at this point.

If we wanted to go a different route that could be a good spot to take a position player like Kevin Smith, Steve Slaton, Adarius Bowman, Earl Bennett, or DJ Hall.

Another possibility, and something I wouldn't doubt Angelo would consider, is a DT like Frank Okam, Dre Moore, or Fili Moala.


Anyway...just something to think about considering there isn't much to get excited about on the current team.

bearfan
12-18-2007, 06:19 AM
my review of the game last night:

Offense: lackluster. Orton did a good job managing the game, not turning it over. I didnt think the line did a great job, and b/c of that our running game was non-existant. WR lapses and drops hurt us. Ron Turner needs to go.
Grade: D-

Defense: I think Vasher playing on the field makes the biggest difference. Before w/o him, we couldnt do much defensivly, but with him we had the opprotunity to do a lot more. I think the DL played very well. I want to see more of this kid from Oregon, b/c he looked good and if he continues to play well, the DT need goes right out the window. I believe that I read a story about Toeaina, if he was the one off of the Bengals practice squad the article was saying that is was a blow to them, b/c they were grooming him...much like Kelly Gregg. Overall, very good preformance.
Grade: A

ST: Gould and Maynard had good days. Hester tried to do to much w/ it, but still gave us very good field position almost every time.
Grade: A-

Number 10
12-18-2007, 08:45 AM
Put this in the gameday thread...meant to put it here

I think it's the offensive line more than anything in Chicago.

I said a few weeks ago I would go after the top FA O-lineman in FA if Briggs can't be resigned and I would spend my 1st pick on a O-lineman in this very rich draft along the line.

Some names I think would be realistic for where you'll bve picking-

Baker-Oher-Otah-and possibly Cherilus althought I've heard he may challenge Long for the top OT spot

The only guard I think will be a 1st rounder is Shuning (sp?) from Oregon State, I was really impressed with him last year when watching game films of Adam Koets last year after the Giants drafted him. In the 2 games worth of notes I have on him this year, I have down that he is physically dominating battles with bigger DTs once he gets locked on. Very sound and consistent technique with the ability to pull and get good space out in front of backs...dominant at the second level. Sounds like exactly what the Bears interior needs...keep his name in mind.

Gay Ork Wang
12-18-2007, 08:59 AM
I just think we have to go offense with the draft.
The Bears can do things without a dominant QB but not without a dominant OL. The dominated in 06, gave us the superbowl. If the offense doesnt start making some plays, run the ball effectively i cant see us winning more than 8 without injuries.

DaBear89
12-18-2007, 10:54 AM
if we dont sign briggs we better keep berrian. and if we dont land Clady/Loadholt/Otah the i may just go and try out for T in camp next year, b/c i may be an improvement. i think if felix jones comes out and slips we should get him in the 2nd, but just wondering, wat is every1's top 5 big board for rd 1. i got
1. Clady
2. Phillips
3. Loadholt
4. Otah
5. Brohm (Ryan is a gunslinger which is a no-no now and Woodson wont be able to step right in)
plz post ur thoughts and opinions on mine and urs

VoteLynnSwan
12-18-2007, 11:43 AM
if we dont sign briggs we better keep berrian. and if we dont land Clady/Loadholt/Otah the i may just go and try out for T in camp next year, b/c i may be an improvement. i think if felix jones comes out and slips we should get him in the 2nd, but just wondering, wat is every1's top 5 big board for rd 1. i got
1. Clady
2. Phillips
3. Loadholt
4. Otah
5. Brohm (Ryan is a gunslinger which is a no-no now and Woodson wont be able to step right in)
plz post ur thoughts and opinions on mine and urs

Ryan is hardly a "gunslinger"

regoob2
12-18-2007, 12:17 PM
I think i'd put ryan #1 right now. outside of something crazy happening like jake long or mcfadden falling

bearsfan_51
12-18-2007, 12:31 PM
Get off the Loaholt nutsack waggon. He's got the feet of a hippopotomus and get's a false start penalty at least once per drive. People just look at his measurables without actually taking into account his total lack of experience and glaring red flags.

He'll go back to school for another year of tuning. If he doesn't he's a fool and whatever team that drafts him is foolish as he'll flop like a dead fish.

Number 10
12-18-2007, 12:39 PM
Get off the Loaholt nutsack waggon. He's got the feet of a hippopotomus and get's a false start penalty at least once per drive. People just look at his measurables without actually taking into account his total lack of experience and glaring red flags.

He'll go back to school for another year of tuning. If he doesn't he's a fool and whatever team that drafts him is foolish as he'll flop like a dead fish.

I'd be shocked if Loadholt came out this year, especially in this OT class.

But hey, I was knocked in September of 2006 for saying Jake Long would be a top 5 pick when he decided to come out, and Loadholt is similar to him in so many ways however with a lower floor but much higher ceiling.

SFbear
12-18-2007, 01:20 PM
So does Kreutz get any heat now that all three of our QBs have fumbled snaps?

bearsfan_51
12-18-2007, 01:34 PM
So does Kreutz get any heat now that all three of our QBs have fumbled snaps?
What are we gonna do, cut him?

Gay Ork Wang
12-18-2007, 02:44 PM
Tell him we put Mannelly in, put Devin Hester 30 yards behind and just do a punt return every snap!

regoob2
12-18-2007, 05:12 PM
Tell him we put Mannelly in, put Devin Hester 30 yards behind and just do a punt return every snap!

good call..

Cunningham
12-18-2007, 05:16 PM
Get off the Loaholt nutsack waggon. He's got the feet of a hippopotomus and get's a false start penalty at least once per drive. People just look at his measurables without actually taking into account his total lack of experience and glaring red flags.

He'll go back to school for another year of tuning. If he doesn't he's a fool and whatever team that drafts him is foolish as he'll flop like a dead fish.
but how do you really feel?

does any one know what happened to danieal manning? i thought he had a decent rookie campaign. has he taken a step back this year or has he always been awful?

Gay Ork Wang
12-18-2007, 05:17 PM
He doesnt Like tackling, destroys his manicures

regoob2
12-18-2007, 05:41 PM
the entire team just seems to be missing tackles some of it has to be the coaching change but Manning and mcgowan cant tackle plain and simple. manning just doesn't seem to like contact

Gay Ork Wang
12-18-2007, 05:43 PM
He played Flag Football in High School and in College thats why

VoteLynnSwan
12-18-2007, 10:59 PM
if anyone wants a good laugh check out the Bears in the forum mock...

Gay Ork Wang
12-19-2007, 05:25 AM
i did laugh pretty loud, why would they draft a DE with the 1st Pick
would they ever get Ocho Cinco, Deuce and McNabb? kinda unrealistic

when i asked why he did draft one, he gave me bad rep lol

sweetness34
12-19-2007, 09:14 AM
I don't want Matt Ryan. Personally, even though he's the least polished I want Woodson if we go QB but that's me.

Gay Ork Wang
12-19-2007, 11:12 AM
I don't want Matt Ryan. Personally, even though he's the least polished I want Woodson if we go QB but that's me.
I dont care who, hell we could take noone, as long as someone steps up id be happy

Smokey Joe
12-19-2007, 06:40 PM
I personally would want Brohm, just because he is the most NFL ready, IMO, and would be able to take over at mid season. Woodson needs at least 1 season of polishing.

DaBear89
12-20-2007, 01:59 AM
I don't want Matt Ryan. Personally, even though he's the least polished I want Woodson if we go QB but that's me.

i would luv woodson too but like has been said, he needs time to learn. he also needs an offensive coach to help him develope...i think we're missing that as Lovie is from the Tampa 2 family and ron turner is...well ron turner

SFbear
12-20-2007, 12:00 PM
Ironically the best person to bring in if we want to compensate for Lovie's lack of offensive credentials and develop a young quarterback would be Norv Turner(if he gets fired), but that would just be cold.

Gay Ork Wang
12-20-2007, 01:19 PM
haha the Turner Brothers would be turning Chicago Upside down

DaBears9654
12-20-2007, 08:49 PM
IMO, the best route is to sign a vet. QB and then pick one up in the draft to serve as the #3. The new vet starts, b/c he would absolutely have to be better than Mr. Inopportune Interceptions in the #14 jersey.

Hurricane Ditka
12-20-2007, 10:39 PM
Word on the street is that Ron Turner isn't going anywhere, why does God hate me?

bearfan
12-20-2007, 10:56 PM
They arent going to come out and fire someone till the end of the season. But if we dont get rid of Turner, I will be so mad. This year has been unbearable to watch on offense, just imagine w. possibly a rookie Qb thrown in there, hopefully some rookie OL. Could be brutal

Hurricane Ditka
12-20-2007, 11:53 PM
If we make some improvements on the offensive line, install an actual NFL offensive scheme, and get a QB that can at least hold down the fort for a little while as we develop a rookie we can be in contention again.

Hurricane Ditka
12-21-2007, 12:54 AM
Is Josh Beekman that bad that he can't get a chance to start over John St Clair at guard? Everything early on was positive but if he can't get any snaps at this point, will he ever?

bearsfan_51
12-21-2007, 08:05 AM
I would understand if we kept Turner for another year. I'd prefer we find someone else, but our bigger problem has been talent in general on offense.

In the history of the Chicago Bears, Ron Turner has been the offensive coordinator during two of the three highest scoring teams of all time ('95, '06). Again, I don't think he's good, but I fear we'd just hire someone even worse if we fired him.

Gay Ork Wang
12-21-2007, 08:46 AM
well in 06 didnt the ST and D score a ton of points, like 6 Tds by hester, 3 TDs by the D and 2 Points by a Safety?

dabears10
12-22-2007, 03:44 PM
Did anyone else see tillman and Briggs got fined. The Briggs one i can understand, but disagree with while the Tillman one, in my opinion is wrong. I felt it wasn't a horse collar and all the refs on the field at the time agreed.

bearfan
12-22-2007, 03:49 PM
Browing the Bears message boards, I saw a pretty good idea, something I could definantly see JA doing:

Trade-
Our 1st (probably around 10)

Get-
Cowboys 2 1st rounders

I thought that idea was actually really good, plus I could see JA doing it. Say we take the best OL remaining, or if one of the big 3 Qb's falls. I think if that were to happen, it would open up a lot more for us to do on draft day.

regoob2
12-22-2007, 04:38 PM
who do you think the cowboys would want to trade up for though? Kenny Phillips. I would like it but I don't see it happening.

Smokey Joe
12-22-2007, 05:08 PM
I have thought about that myself, and could see it happening if Kenny Phillips is available for the Cowboys to trade up for.

Gay Ork Wang
12-22-2007, 05:20 PM
would Woodson or Brohm drop so far?

Hurricane Ditka
12-22-2007, 05:41 PM
Would our pick at 10 be worth enough to warrant 2 first round picks? Probably not.

Smokey Joe
12-22-2007, 07:11 PM
would Woodson or Brohm drop so far?
Very possible... just look at where Brady Quinn fell to and he was a better prospect then probably all 3 QB's in this draft.

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2007, 04:37 AM
at that time no one really needed a QB. Now we have kinda the Chiefs, Carolina, Baltimore, i doubt the Vikes, the Lions maybe, Buccs, but they are apparently behind the first pick of the Cowboys.

and id say Hurrican is right

awfullyquiet
12-23-2007, 01:17 PM
The Vikes need a QB like the desert needs the rain.

Tavaris can't play. Period... He's not childress's answer. He knows it...

hmm.

Smokey Joe
12-23-2007, 01:30 PM
Childress isn't going to give up on Jackson already, and the Chiefs aren't going to give up on Croyle either. I could also see Baltimore skipping 1st round QB as well since they have Boeller signed for another year and Troy Smith has been pretty good. Lions just drafted Stanton as well, and the Bucs will probably wait until round 2 or 3 to draft Garcia's future replacement. The only two teams I see most likely drafting a QB in the first are the Panthers and Falcons, and the Panthers might even by pass it as well since their window is closing.

Smokey Joe
12-23-2007, 01:31 PM
Oh yeah, Jamar Williams is not a good replacement for Briggs.

regoob2
12-23-2007, 02:36 PM
I haven't really been paying attention, the announcers are saying hes having a good game.

dabears10
12-23-2007, 03:39 PM
All it took was 40 MPH gusts for Turner to start running the ball more.

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2007, 04:13 PM
Bears Swept the Packers :D
Injury nagged Bears still > Packers :P

Smokey Joe
12-23-2007, 04:36 PM
I haven't really been paying attention, the announcers are saying hes having a good game.
he played decent... but he doesn't even come close to being the type of player Briggs is.

pellepelle_10
12-23-2007, 04:42 PM
Bears Swept the Packers :D
Injury nagged Bears still > Packers :P

If there is one thing to be happy about this year I'd definatelly say owning the Packers it one of them. This put a smile on my face.

Now for the rebuilding process of all these voids on offense/defense. We have a load of upgrading to do.

regoob2
12-23-2007, 05:25 PM
Outside of Safety I don't think we could really upgrade our Defense other then adding depth. We need to focus on the O. especially the line

Gay Ork Wang
12-23-2007, 06:07 PM
If there is one thing to be happy about this year I'd definatelly say owning the Packers it one of them. This put a smile on my face.

Now for the rebuilding process of all these voids on offense/defense. We have a load of upgrading to do.
After we didnt make the Playoffs, this was one thing I was looking forward to. Hell either the SuperBowl or beat the Packers twice while we have a loosing Record and cost them their homefield :P

I love ST...i just Love em. Another TD for the ST, thats 6 TDs this year again

neko4
12-23-2007, 08:15 PM
Bears Swept the Packers :D
Injury nagged Bears still > Packers :P
Well yall beat us fair and square, but we're the ones in the playoffs

regoob2
12-23-2007, 08:42 PM
I really couldn't care less if we beat the packers twice or not, I'm happy to see us clicking on all aspects in this game. Orton looked solid and our D looked good. I just hope we can have a good offseason and have a comeback year and make a run at the playoffs.

DaBears9654
12-23-2007, 09:14 PM
Well yall beat us fair and square, but we're the ones in the playoffs
Yes, but the loss, coupled with the Cowboys beating the Panthers last night, means you guys have to go to Dallas in the very likely event that both teams get to the NFC Championship. And need I remind you that on the left side of Favre's record in Dallas is a big fat donut?

yo123
12-23-2007, 09:51 PM
Thank you guys so much for beating the Packers. That is all.

k0ng
12-23-2007, 10:09 PM
So anyone want to play armchair GM and suggest what we need to do this offseason? I would start it off, but I don't know much about the draft prospects outside of what has been said on these boards.

Gay Ork Wang
12-25-2007, 03:42 AM
Anderson is on IR now...I think there is an injury problem this year :rolleyes:

DaBears9654
12-25-2007, 05:16 PM
Anderson is on IR now...I think there is an injury problem this year :rolleyes:
I saw on ESPN that he was out this Sunday but wondered if they would put him on injured reserve or the inactive 8, both being an option heading into the season closer. I later found on chicagobears.com that they placed him on IR.

toonsterwu
12-25-2007, 10:07 PM
So anyone want to play armchair GM and suggest what we need to do this offseason? I would start it off, but I don't know much about the draft prospects outside of what has been said on these boards.

Where we're slated isn't a great position, as we are waiting to see how the board falls. As much as safety is discussed, I tend to think that is a longshot, and that OT/QB will be the considerations.

That said, first thing we need to do is figure out our QB next year, let alone the long run. I think resigning Rex for say, 2 years makes the most sense, assuming he wants back. If he doesn't, I'd go with Griese/Orton as stopgaps rather than spend heavily on someone. But my guess is that if Rex leaves, we'll pursue a veteran, probably McNabb first. The cost may be prohibitive in that regards, particularly for a GM that values his picks. I wouldn't be surprised if we keep Orton and cut Griese.

One of the bigger decisions will be whether or not we keep Benson. As much as I am lukewarm on him, keeping him seems the best route to go as we can't be guaranteed of signing anyone. I'd try for Turner or Fargas to compete with Benson. A tough decision may lie with carrying 3 or 4 RB's, as I expect to add one, whether it be through FA or draft, and that means Peterson/Wolfe would still be around. McKie is fine at FB. Polite/Runnels can battle it out for the backup FB spot. Um, Jermaine Allen. I think he can be practice squaded again, so sure, if they like something about him, I'm fine with that. PJ Pope, um, he can go. Not sure if he's practice squad eligible anymore in 08-09.

At TE, I'd really shop Clark. Olsen needs PT, and we need assets. Not sure Clark can bring in much, but if he could get a 4th rounder, I'd strongly consider it. I think others would disagree, though. Gilmore is a solid depth asset, nothing special, but can play a role. I'm curious on the staff's perspective on Fontel Mines. He's really bulked up from his UVA days, and if his speed is decent, that's a nice developmental target. That said, Mines can probably be practice squaded and be safe there. TE isn't a huge need. If we keep Clark, that's a wrap. If not, maybe a veteran or a day 2 pick (more likely veteran).

At WR, I think we have to keep Berrian, although rumors seem to be iffy on that. I'd let Muhammad go if the cap numbers worked out. If not, keep him. Hester needs more developmental time at WR. If we keep both Berrian/Muhammad around, wouldn't be surprised if Bradley is a casualty. Hass can be kept around for depth, or let go. Not sure I care too much either way. Rashied Davis is a nice slot guy, but I could see him being gone as we probably want to add one WR this year.

On the OL, Miller/Brown should be gone. I'd move Tait to RT and draft a LT, but I could see us draft a RT if the guy is viewed as someone that can be a plus player right away. We need a 2nd OG, which might be through FA, but could be through the draft. I just am not sold we'd go with 2 rookies in the OL to start 08-09. I'd have Metcalf/Garza battle it out for the other spot. I'd actually have Beekman battle it out as well, but the staff seems lukewarm on that. Let's see ... Oakley - eh, been there done that. He's 26. Could still be a solid guard, but is he better than Metcalf/Beekman (if Garza wins the starting spot)? I'd be fine with him as the backup, but I could see us letting him go and bringing in someone else. Guess we keep Tyler Reed on the practice squad. Jones and Gibbons are a bit more iffy. Dunno how much more PS eligibility they have, and both some fringy shots to make the roster. Oh, St. Clair should be around as veteran depth. I mean, if we can find 2 starters, we have solid depth with St. Clair/Beekman/Metcalf potentially.

Defensively, we have some tough, tough decisions to make. Let's start at the relatively easier spots.

Safety - Let Brown/Archuleta go. If Brown is willing to sign a small deal, perhaps incentive laden, then bring him back as a potential possibility. McGowan/Manning will be back, but both safety spots need to be open for competition. Kevin Payne/Leonard Peters/Josh Gattis can all be brought back to compete and fill depth spots. We need to at least draft 1 guy, and I'd guess we'd lean more towards SS than FS (obviously, an all-around guy would be ideal).

CB - The Ricky Manning question. I like him, but it's awfully hard to justify keeping him around if the staff feels McBride/Graham can be alright as depth. Obviously, Vasher/Tillman will be back. If they like Greg Fassitt, keep him around on the PS. If not, no loss. Enough youth on hand. While we could draft another CB, I'd rather see a veteran depth guy if McBride/Graham are sticking, and Ade Jimoh could be that guy. I'd be fine with a depth chart of McBride (nickel), Jimoh (dime), Graham (developmental guy on regular roster/ST).

LB - Let Briggs go. Just too many needs, and I don't like tying up that much with the LB's. Slide Urlacher to WLB if they feel it's best, and put Williams in at MIKE. Hillenmeyer is a solid SAM Backer. Okwo can be the top backup. That's our top 4. Ayanbadejo will likely be back for ST purposes, although honestly, I'm not a big fan of a guy taking up a spot as basically a pure ST guy. I don't see the need of keeping McClover/Roach/Wilson around, although I could see one, if not 2, stay. I'd rather just draft a day 2 guy and stick them in. Maybe keep Wilson (who they seem to like for depth purposes) and have a kid step in? Maybe they like Roach. If so, he could be the "kid". I have no strong feelings on him.

DE - This is a tough one. Unless he would cause problems, I'd like to keep Alex Brown around. He's been too good. I'd really like to open up competition between Alex and Mark again. That being said, with Dan Bazuin from last year, I really don't see that happening. Brown likely gets moved, which is a shame, I think. Chris Frome is eh, if they want him around on the PS, fine, but he shouldn't be on the regular roster. I wouldn't mind adding a young end on day 2 with pass rushing potential, if one is there, to mold.

DT - Harris is a certainty. Dvoracek seems to get the coaches excited, and Adams played well, so that'd be my top 3. Idonije would be kept as a swing guy. Time to move on from Garay, IMO, unless they think he can break through big. No need, better off developing a kid. Let Darwin Walker go. Now, three other guys around - Matt Toeaina, Jimmy Kennedy, Babatunde Oshinowo. My guess is Toeaina's been impressive enough to keep around. Let Kennedy go. See if Babatunde Oshinowo will stay, perhaps as a PS guy (still has eligibility I think). Big, young body with some athleticism? I'd try to keep him around.

LS - It's Mannelly's job until he calls it quits/leaves in all likelihood. Once you have a good one, you tend to keep him.

Draft wise, as noted, I think OT/QB are the favorites in round 1. As much as I don't like it, I think the top targets would be Long/Brohm (in that order). If neither are around, I could see us trying to slide down if possible, easier said than done. I think Otah would be 3rd, though, as someone to potentially plug in at RT. The way the order is shaking out, though, the potential exists for someone to have fallen a bit to encourage a team to deal up.

Whatever we don't do in round 1 (OT or QB) should be the priority in round 2, unless the value is too good. If we go OT in round 1, I think an upside QB would get the nod. If we go QB in round 1, I think we'd go for an OT that can step in right away at RT (if Cherilus is there, he makes sense). Just to be clear, this isn't what I want, but what I think would happen.

In the 3rd, I'd look to land a safety. The 2nd pick is flexible, depending on what we do in FA. Could be a WR, could be a RB, could be OL. BPA is perfectly fine.

Later on, we could look at DL to develop, and maybe a LB for depth. Another safety wouldn't be bad, along with OL talent.

Smokey Joe
12-26-2007, 11:38 AM
LB - Let Briggs go. Just too many needs, and I don't like tying up that much with the LB's. Slide Urlacher to WLB if they feel it's best, and put Williams in at MIKE. Hillenmeyer is a solid SAM Backer. Okwo can be the top backup. That's our top 4. Ayanbadejo will likely be back for ST purposes, although honestly, I'm not a big fan of a guy taking up a spot as basically a pure ST guy. I don't see the need of keeping McClover/Roach/Wilson around, although I could see one, if not 2, stay. I'd rather just draft a day 2 guy and stick them in. Maybe keep Wilson (who they seem to like for depth purposes) and have a kid step in? Maybe they like Roach. If so, he could be the "kid". I have no strong feelings on him.

I think Briggs is worth the money to stay, but I can see why we let him go... if we're lucky maybe he doesn't reach 75% of his snaps and we can franchise him and trade him. Ayanbadejo is arguably the best special teams player in the nfl who doesn't return kicks or kicks the ball, I got no problem with him staying. Roach has also played extremely well on special teams and since McClover is a FA next year, I can see Roach staying in his place... Now, why would we move Urlacher to WILL and move someone like Jamar Williams, who lacks in coverage, to SAM? Yeah, I know Urlacher isn't like he used to be, but he is still one of the best MIKE's in all of football.

toonsterwu
12-26-2007, 11:46 AM
Actually, I was saying Urlacher to weakside with Jamar Williams at MIKE, which was a suggestion made in an article somewhere in an attempt to keep Urlacher healthier.

Gay Ork Wang
12-26-2007, 12:36 PM
This would still make the football team worse than it is. I mean Jamar Williams will certainly not be a Urlacher and why would the Will get less Reps and make him healthier??

regoob2
12-26-2007, 01:17 PM
Actually, I was saying Urlacher to weakside with Jamar Williams at MIKE, which was a suggestion made in an article somewhere in an attempt to keep Urlacher healthier.

I don't see this happening for the same reason the we didn't want to start Ricky manning jr., we would have to change to players natural positions to fill one need.

bearsfan_51
12-26-2007, 02:13 PM
I actually agree with almost every word you said Toonster. It's nice to see someone else agree that keeping Berrian is absolutely imperative. I would keep Berrian over Briggs at this point, and I'm hoping that the FO agrees.

Jerry held a conference recently and said that they being more dynamic on offense was their #1 goal in the offseason, that indicates to me that Berrian, and likely Grossman, will be brought back.

I like Briggs but if it's between keeping Berrian or Briggs, I'd choose Berrian quite frankly.

Smokey Joe
12-26-2007, 04:48 PM
Actually, I was saying Urlacher to weakside with Jamar Williams at MIKE, which was a suggestion made in an article somewhere in an attempt to keep Urlacher healthier.
I meant to put MIKE but for some reason I put SAM...

toonsterwu
12-26-2007, 11:47 PM
This would still make the football team worse than it is. I mean Jamar Williams will certainly not be a Urlacher and why would the Will get less Reps and make him healthier??

The MIKE backer role in the scheme arguably is put through more physical damage based upon the myriad responsibilities involved in covering the deep middle. Considering the back, it is somewhat understandable as an idea that should be at least considered, if we let Briggs go. We have to put Urlacher in a position where he can have the most impact. For years, it's been debated whether or not playing inside was right for him, as it increases the physical toll he undergoes. Not saying playing the middle has had an impact on his health, but that, because of his health, if we let Briggs go, it should be factored, if the staff thinks Jamar can handle the MIKE.

That said, we could, if Briggs is let go, just slide Jamar into the weakside spot.

bearfan
12-27-2007, 12:26 AM
When I was doing the grade your FAs thread, I saw that Max Starks from the Steelers is due to be a FA. That got me thinking to maybe we sign him, and draft an OL still in the 1st or 2nd and groom them for a few years until Tait retires, or we part ways with him. Would look like
Starks - Beekman? -Kruetz - Garza - Tait

Starks is 25 years old, and is a huge guy. I think that could be a decent, and cheaper solution to our OL.

I was also looking at some of the RBs, and some that I wouldnt mind looking at would be players like Fargas, Julius Jones, Melwelde Moore, Chris Brown. I think for our running game to sucseed, we need a 2 back system, but i dont think that AP is our solution to that, and I dont think that Wolfe is either. All those guys are young, and while there may be some injury concerns, they would be splitting the carries which would reduce the injury risk for both Benson and a FA RB if we were to pick one up.

toonsterwu
12-27-2007, 02:34 AM
I'm fine with going after Max Starks. It's going to cost a pretty penny with his decent play down the stretch this year (and especially if he has a good postseason). He's a guy to stick in at RT and be potentially solid, with slim LT potential. If that happened, we could wait a bit to draft an OT, perhaps until the 3rd (where someone like Tony Hills could be available as a developmental guy) or 4th/5th (where a guy like Barry Richardson could be available). To be honest, some may disagree, but I'd rather spend on Starks than Briggs. Starks should cost less (although after last year's contracts, it's debatable if that's the case), but the OL should be a bigger priority anyways from a scheme and need perspective.

Looking at draftdaddy's FA list (assuming it's correct, too lazy to verify)

OL - Flozell tops the list, but the guess is he stays with Dallas. Even if he doesn't, his age doesn't make that much sense for us. I'd be intrigued with Jordan Gross. But I'm assuming Gross will be more costly than Starks, and I think I'd rather take the plunge with Starks (and I wonder if the Panthers tag Gross considering they are looking at 2 OT's hitting FA). Locklear's an intriguing guy to look at. I'd prefer Starks over him, I think, but he'd be intriguing. Could go inside as well. I'm lukewarm on Wharton. Still think he's better at guard. I'd take a look at Maurice Williams/Stacey Andrews as guards/depth at tackle (not starters at tackle, though). I'd consider an offer to the Titans RFA David Stewart. 4th round compensation is something I can live with. I'd consider the Titans Jacob Bell as a FA guard. Faneca's age is something I wouldn't go for. I'd consider the Colts two guards, Lilja and Scott. Hadnot's a solid guy ... but he might be awfully costly. Liwienski might be a solid 1 year veteran to bring in if we try to develop a kid. I'd take a look at Geoff Hangartner as a RFA (5th) and Jason Brown (4th). Eltron Brown for a 4th is something to ponder as well. Granted, a lot of these RFA's won't be moving.

WR/TE - Hmm ... pickings seem weak. We don't have a need at TE, unless we say, move Desmond Clark. If that happened, a veteran signing makes sense. At WR, keeping Berrian should be our priority. Moss is unlikely. Crayton seems unlikely as well (Dallas or Miami would be the guess). The rest is eh. A solid veteran like David Patten as a 4th receiver would be fine, but not necessary. A gamble on Drew Carter? We're better off developing Mark Bradley. If Devard Darling is cheap, sure. Jabar Gaffney is decent veteran depth. Bryant Johnson is an intriguing option.

RB/FB - Burner Turner and Justin Fargas would be my preferences, if we are willing to spend. Fargas hits the hole hard, despite limitations, and Burner's just looking for an opportunity. I'd be okay with Julius Jones. Like the guy, don't love him. Likely cheaper than the other two, though. After that, the pickings are slim. Stecker might be a more useful backup than Adrian Peterson, but isn't a huge upgrade on our Adrian. Toefield/Cartwright/Chatman fall in the same idea as Stecker in all likelihood - backups when we need someone to challenge Benson. I'd take a look at Derrick Ward. I liked what I saw this year.

QB - Convincing Rex to stay on a 2 year deal might be the best course of action. I have a hard time seeing us give up what's necessary for Derek Anderson and Donovan McNabb.

S -I'd take a look at Madieu Williams. A lot of tools, but issues have come up along the way. A move to simpler responsibilities could get things going. I'd love to make an offer to RFA Atogwe (3rd), and I think we should, but I doubt we land him as the Rams would do a lot to keep him. Vincent Fuller (4th) is another guy I'd consider making an offer to. I'd see on Ken Hamlin (as the strong safety), Gibril Wilson, Chris Crocker, Erik Coleman. Probably a couple other guys I'd take a peek at for competition's sake.

LB - At most, a veteran backup, but in all likelihood, nothing. Someone like Teddy Lehman would be an intriguing and potentially cheap look. Same goes for Keyaron Fox.

DT - Assuming Dvoracek comes back, we look to have our top 3 set, so I wouldn't spend too much, and I think we have some intriguing young pieces, enough that we wouldn't look at any top guy, and likely no one. Maybe someone like a Randy Starks would be the type I'd look at, young, with a lot of raw potential, and where a move to a simpler scheme may make more sense for him.

DE - Seems very, very unlikely. Maybe a cheap veteran, but no one stands out.

CB - Unnecessary. If we let Manning Jr. go, maybe a veteran for depth with McBride/Graham. But Ade Jimoh could be that guy.
_________________

Well nothing all that informative.

I'd try to go hard at a top RB. I'd target Burner Turner first, with Fargas/Ward/Jones (probably in that order) as backup options. If we let Adrian Peterson go, maybe a guy like Cartwright/Stecker/Chatman makes some sense, but if not, then I don't see the point.

At OT, I like the Max Starks attempt. That's the route I would go. I'm not sure I'd look too heavily at guard. The FA guards might be costly, and I'd like to avoid paying insanely for an OG. Maybe make an offer to RFA Geoff Hangartner (5th round compensation). I think my preferred fallback on Starks would be David Stewart, which would be a tough get to say the least.

At the other spots -

Try to keep Rex on a 2 year deal. That's a length that makes the most sense for both parties if he stays.

WR is a tough one to figure. Berrian should be kept, even at the franchise cost. If Bradley is too doghoused, I'd look at Bryant Johnson/Devard Darling if the price is right. Depending on how things shake out, I'd really look at someone like Jabar Gaffney as a 2/3 type receiver, a solid but unspectacular guy. But that's a scenario where things haven't gone as I preferred.

DL/LB - Not much on the defensive line side. Personally, I'd take a look at Randy Starks at the right price. Worth it. That said, it's unnecessary.

S - Out of the realistic options, I'd make a run at Madieu Williams.

So ... if we could come out of FA with (as "new" additions)

S - Madieu Williams
OT - Max Starks
RB - Michael Turner

I'd be pleased. And while the only one that may be a steep cost would be Turner. Starks would be high, although I'm not sold it'd be insane, and Williams inconsistency so far, at a position of relative low cost, should make him okay.

pellepelle_10
12-27-2007, 03:33 AM
toonster

I think keeping Desmon Clark and Greg Olsen would be best given our lack of talent at the TE position the past 5 decades. I think they do a very good job of complimenting each other. I can understand your reasoning behind Clark holding Olsens potential but I don't see it being a bad thing of having a double threat at TE when our receivers haven't accomplished ****. These guys have been more consistent than anyone on the team. I say keep both of them until someone else shows some consistency.

I'd like acquiring a FA RB but in all honesty the money both Turner, Fargas or even Ward from NY Giants will demand may not make any sense. I'd personally get someone out of the draft. I think money is best spent on acquiring a young vet O-Line such as Max Starks (as you stated) or even Travelle Wharton from Carolina (on the opposite end or Jordan Gross). I like Gross but I know he's going to command a ton of money. I like the guards from Indy and I know many have voiced their opinions but I think they would be solid additions to our withering offensive line. Ruben Browns position is vacant as well as Fred Millers. This will need the attention of both FA and the draft.

Although we seem to have talent at DT it's become a position of need. I think adding a solid vet to add some good depth would greatly help us. I like what Dvoracek brings but the guy has missed 2 full seasons. Walker is not the answer and Adams is marginal at best. I agree when Smokey stated that we should take high consideration in adding a guy like DT Corey Williams from GreenBay. Randy Starks i'm not going gaga over but if we could get him at a reasonable price this may suffice..i'm a little worried he may turn out to be another Darwin Walker personally.

Safety is definatelly a position of great need. I don't see any of the FA's as an upgrade. As we've all seen Angelo's ability to draft late round talent I'd rather see him draft a couple day 2 safeties than grab that garbage that shows for FA's as of now. I think we should see who gets cut. Maybe some team lets a star go. I'd really like to see us take a look at Michael Griffins brother from Texas as an option. That would be sweet.

WR I think just needs another season of trial. Bradley has the tools but will he pan. We've seen spurts of promise but it has never been consistent. Grossman didn't vouch for this guy for the heck of it. I've seen his capabilities when he's started games. I'd really like to see what he's made of if we gave him a full season to prove himself. Davis always seems to make a catch here and there but in all honesty it never seems as though he gets a ton of passes. It could be because he's not getting open though..it could be the fact that all our qb's are either too busy evading the lack of blocking from Miller, Brown/Metcalf or simply the fact they just stink. *shrugs*

QB will be a great need. I personally am hoping we land McNabb or Anderson. This way we can focus more attention at O-Line, RB, and every other namable position in the draft. Either of these 2 guys would be a great improvement over what we currently have and this would allow us to use the draft for other key positions named above. Hopefully it won't cost us an arm and a leg.

Gay Ork Wang
12-27-2007, 04:54 AM
I dont think McNabb or Anderson will be available. They prolly gonna sign McNabb and franchise Anderson demanding 2 first round picks.
The only thing we need on defense is a safety, and this time an allrounder. We dont need someone like Archuleta who cant cover the deep ball, kinda bad in a Cover 2 Scheme. We also dont need one who doesnt tackle well, (Daniel Manning was leading the team in FFs last year, who wouldve known).

WRs...idk if there are so many drops, should we kinda be concernd about the coach? I hope Devin Hester develops more. If we let go of Muhammed go for a possesion guy, kinda like a Welker in NE, in the draft, maybe someone in FA (???Ernest Wilford???). We dont need a 3rd speedster. Sign Berrian!!

DT. I just dont see who else we need. Maybe sign Tommie Harris Extension soon. We still have Dusty, who seemed to play okay, he has to stay healthy. Adams is alright. Toeania looks okay, we'll see how he does against the Saints

SFbear
12-27-2007, 06:01 AM
Ive read that the staff thinks Beekman is too short to play guard and can only back up center. It would explain why he hasn't been given a chance to play this last stretch but I don't understand how height matters at OG.

Derek Anderson is RFA so would most likely require a 1st and a 3rd. I don't think McNabb is leaving Philly without some major compensation. Philly was asking for three 1st rounders at the beginning of the year.

Berrian over Briggs. Can't agree more.

If I remember correctly when we drafted Urlacher and put him at OLB he felt really awkward in coverage so we moved him to MLB where he excelled with the two mammoths in front of him. Now with Lovie, Urlacher is one of the best coverage linebackers in the league and doesn't have big DTs to shield him from wear and tear so moving to OLB really isn't that out there.
Also in a normal Tampa 2 the WLB is the superstar and the MLB role is minimized.

toonsterwu
12-27-2007, 09:20 AM
McNabb or Anderson will be costly. Such a move would be a win now move in many respects, despite their ages (particularly on Anderson). In McNabb's case, we'd probably have to pony up this year's first, perhaps next year's first, and another pick or two. In Anderson's case, I think they'd hold firm on this year's first at the very least. I'm just not sure we are in a position to do such a move. If the cost is less than expected, yes, I ponder a move for eithe rone. But I'm not sold it'll be.

On TE's - I wouldn't move Desmond Clark unless we got something decent. If not, I'd rather keep them. But a first 3 round pick, and I pull the trigger, I think. Even a 4th rounder I'd ponder as well. I'm not in a rush to dump Clark, but if we can get assets, I'd consider it. The staff was intrigued enough with Mines, and Mines holds some similarities to Clark at the same age (although less developed). But that's me.

DT - I'd like to add a DT as well. I'm just not sure we have the money so splurge on a 2nd DT like Corey Williams. Corey's going to be awfully expensive and we'll have to pay Tommie Harris soon. That's a lot of money tied up inside. It's doable, particularly if we let Ricky Manning Jr. and Lance Briggs go, but do we really spend that much? I'd much rather draft a DT than spend big on one. A cheaper guy, someone like Starks, would be fine, but in that situation, it's also arguable if the player would be an upgrade over our depth.

RB - I'd rather spend big on a RB than spend big on a DT, to be honest. That said, I'm not too enthused with spending big on a RB. But the thing is, unless we go RB early (and the first is very, very unlikely), I'm not in love with the 2nd tier and later on RB's. Someone will emerge, but who and will that someone fit in the context of what we need? A lot of it depends on which juniors come out. But I'd rather pick a safety early than a RB, and if we fail to add QB, then that goes ahead in the queue. And there's OL as well.

S - I'm not in love with this safety class to feel comfortable about simply depending on the draft for filling our needs. I'd like to get at least on safety, if not two, in FA to bring in and compete. I like guys like Payne/McGowan/Manning, but they haven't proven enough and this draft class just doesn't impress unless we go after Phillips which

OL - If we land one or two OL talents, this does create the opening to go after Phillips in round 1 if we so desired. I think Gross is too costly, and I still don't love Wharton as an OT. I think Starks is still the preference here in turns of cost and ability meshing the best. Stacey Andrews may be up there as well, as he's a solid RT option. Didn't realize he'd done so well at tackle for them this year. More I think about it, if we miss on someone, I'd make an aggressive bid for David Stewart. Solid, proven young starter for a 4th rounder? I'd do it. I'd like to get beefier inside if possible, which is what makes me wary on the Colts OG's, Jacob Bell, and the ilk. Add in that, while this OG class is weak, there will be some solid starters in the middle stanzas. Don't get me wrong, if we can grab a starting OG and OT in FA, then heck yeah. If not, though, I'm fine waiting on OG until the draft. If we go, say, Brian Brohm, in round 1 (which I'd be wary of), and Max Starks in FA, someone like Mike McGlynn in the 2nd would be intriguing (granted, I'd like to trade down, as I think he's more mid-late 2nd than early). A Schuening/Felton/Radovich/Thomas in the 3rd/4th would be fine. There's some others, too lazy to think right now.

bearfan
12-27-2007, 12:22 PM
Or maybe at RB we take a look at a guy like Justin Forsett out of Cal in the draft. Scott has him labled as a mid rounder, but I really like the guy. He is on the smaller side (5'8 almost 200), but when I see him play, he is a lot stronger than he looks, and he fights for every yard. He can put on some weight, but I really like the guy, and think that he would be a decent option.

so what if our offseason looked like this:

-Resign Berrian
-let Briggs walk
-sign Max Starks
-sign saftey if a good young one is out there

Draft: 1st 3 rounds
1st: Jeff Otah OT
2nd: Joe Flacco QB
3rd: Marcus Monk WR
3rd: Justin Forsett RB

awfullyquiet
12-27-2007, 12:45 PM
I actually agree with almost every word you said Toonster. It's nice to see someone else agree that keeping Berrian is absolutely imperative. I would keep Berrian over Briggs at this point, and I'm hoping that the FO agrees.

Jerry held a conference recently and said that they being more dynamic on offense was their #1 goal in the offseason, that indicates to me that Berrian, and likely Grossman, will be brought back.

I like Briggs but if it's between keeping Berrian or Briggs, I'd choose Berrian quite frankly.

agreed 100%.

the thing is, we were grooming all last year for the opportunity for briggs to leave. willams and/or okwo are probably ready. williams played a rather good game last week and i'm excited to see what he's got going on. as my brother would say... with another year, i think berrian can get better at route running. as long as someone teaches him what he needs to do to get open...

QB - Agreed. Grossman would be the best bet right now, if we do draft a qb rather high and sign him to a smallish deal. we have two choices. sign grossman in 2 years if he outplays expectations (meaning good). or shop him next year if we feel we have a competent/better than competent person behind center. I would take mcnabb if the price was right. maybe a first round this year and next year's first and third? it's still tough.

RB - Toonster is way right. I don't care what the front office says though. Giving jones to the jets was horrible. Getting turner or fargas would be stellar ideas. Turner and Benson would probably be competing for PT, and maybe we'd see benson drop his shoulders and try to plow over people like he theoretically could... *shrugs* i'd rather trade Peterson than not keep wolfe.

WR/TE - I don't really like the idea of keeping moose. But bradley hasn't shown me anything again this year. I don't know why. Mike Hass will likely see time this year too. Davis should disappear with Moose. Davis isn't special and moose doesn't seem to play like he has, lack of concentration, no speed, he's only good on the run-blocking. If the WR opportunity isn't there for us this year in FA, i'd keep olson and clark without blinking and play out of the 2TE set more, as well as dropping olson out in the x/y/z from time to time. he's shown me everything that i've wanted to see from him this year... athleticism, okay blocking, ability to get the ball.

OL- God. I like max starks. I like the fact he played with rex. As much as Tait isn't a LT, he's still a better LT than i think starks would be. Didn't he play RT in college? Sure, he'll cost a something, but if we decide to keep rex, this will be a no brainer IMO. We don't have to dispose of brown yet, but miller is obviously gone. Beekman being short has two connotations in my mind, either his arms are short (that's bad), or he's short (which is good). Being short means lower center of gravity, if you're 6'2, 305, you by default should have better balance than a 6'7, 305... and CoG helps you put more force into a shorter area. I still want to see more from him...

Defense?
DL - I can see us trading darwin walker for something, or as part of a deal. He hasn't worked out, the FO put too much money into this guy to just let him go. I called them ridiculous for it then, and i'll call them ridiculous for it now. Alex Brown needs to stay. Now, i don't know how to logistically do it... garay? gone. Idonije can stay, Dvorchek is probably gonna be starting still, and maybe he can quit injuring himself. when he plays, it's a different game imo. four strong linemen at all times, best 4-3 line in the game like that. So, round it out... Adams, Ogunleye, Bazuin, Idonije, Anderson, Brown, Harris, Dvorchek, Toeanda, on the roster... i also think that we're better off with brown starting and having anderson rotate in

LB - (discussed above)

DB - Ugh. We're a mess sort of. I saw d.manning made an actual 'hit'... he's fast, but he's no tackler at all, we don't have any vets behind vasher, r.manning and tillman. i'm really sad that archuleta didn't pan out like i thought it would... he was terrific on a marginal rams defense. mcgowan has played realllly well, above my expectations. d.manning is still a safety. he can't play corner, i think this year proved it more than anything, the guy does better in reacting to plays instead of people. he thinks too hard. manning jr... well. he plays nickle, and only nickle. i think we pay him a fair sum to do that seeing as i don't remember the last time i saw us in dime, but that's because briggs and urlacher in coverage were better than most any corners in coverage over the hash marks. without briggs, we automatically have to think about how we can better our dbacks. the FO has been pretty good with drafting corners. I'm okay with seeing how mcbride and graham pan out this year, seeing as they both did decent jobs, but we locked vasher and tillman down, we don't need veteran depth yet, we need backups. Payne is good for the depth in Safety, but if we let go of brown, no doubt we'll need at least one more guy, (i'm looking 4th round)


god. i should be getting back to work by now.

Smokey Joe
12-27-2007, 01:19 PM
Or maybe at RB we take a look at a guy like Justin Forsett out of Cal in the draft. Scott has him labled as a mid rounder, but I really like the guy. He is on the smaller side (5'8 almost 200), but when I see him play, he is a lot stronger than he looks, and he fights for every yard. He can put on some weight, but I really like the guy, and think that he would be a decent option.

so what if our offseason looked like this:

-Resign Berrian
-let Briggs walk
-sign Max Starks
-sign saftey if a good young one is out there

Draft: 1st 3 rounds
1st: Jeff Otah OT
2nd: Joe Flacco QB
3rd: Marcus Monk WR
3rd: Justin Forsett RB
I don't understand why you would have us sign Starks and then use the first pick on Otah... Starks IMO is best suited for RT so we'd have to leave Tait at LT. However, since Starks would be able to solidify the RT spot, we can shift the TE or FB over near Tait to help him out. I'm think I'd rather sign Faneca (he will be a bit more expensive then Starks but he won't be getting a Hutch of Steinbach contract as he will be 31-32 come next season), and draft someone like Ryan Clady or Chris Williams (I see him going in the middle of the 2nd, similar to where McNeil went 2 years ago) as our LT, and then draft someone like Heath Benedict in the 3rd or 4th to compete with Garza at RG. A line of Williams/Clady, Faneca, Kreutz, Garza/Benedict, Tait would be very solid. The only thing is that we do splurge on a 31-32 year old guard but Faneca should still have at least 2, 3 pro bowl seasons left.

However, I could see us resigning Brown on a 1 year contract if he wants to come back. If healthy, he is still an above average guard in this league, IMO, but that is a big IF as he is very old.

Smokey Joe
12-27-2007, 01:26 PM
Oh yeah, I really don't see us spending the money on any RB in free agency. I might be in the minority on this, but I am leaning in the direction of drafting someone like Jon Stewart in the first... actually, on second thought, I wouldn't mind seeing us spend our money on Turner (I think Oakland is going to do everything in their power to retain Fargas, any RB who can run behind that OL with their ****** team is a keeper), and just focusing in on the draft for the OL. Use our first pick on Clady, 2nd on Flacco, and our 3rd's on Benedict and Josh Barrett. Plus, I could see us keeping Brown cheap for a year and draft perhaps Martin O'Donnell to develop behind him on the 2nd day. Also, while Walker is nowhere worth the money he will make, I could see us restructuring his contract and bringing him back. I wouldn't mind that at all.

How much do you guys think Turner will make in FA?

awfullyquiet
12-27-2007, 03:55 PM
Oh yeah, I really don't see us spending the money on any RB in free agency. I might be in the minority on this, but I am leaning in the direction of drafting someone like Jon Stewart in the first... actually, on second thought, I wouldn't mind seeing us spend our money on Turner (I think Oakland is going to do everything in their power to retain Fargas, any RB who can run behind that OL with their ****** team is a keeper), and just focusing in on the draft for the OL. Use our first pick on Clady, 2nd on Flacco, and our 3rd's on Benedict and Josh Barrett. Plus, I could see us keeping Brown cheap for a year and draft perhaps Martin O'Donnell to develop behind him on the 2nd day. Also, while Walker is nowhere worth the money he will make, I could see us restructuring his contract and bringing him back. I wouldn't mind that at all.

How much do you guys think Turner will make in FA?

Ugh. maybe tons. But could we have turner and ced on the same roster? Ced hasn't made more than 2 million a year... we could put turner on the roster for whatever it costs, him eating away at bensons time (if benson gets 701 yards, he gets an additional 1.73 million dollars, he got 674 this year... his five year, 35 mil deal hasn't really amounted to much... he's made maybe 2 mill this year and last year)

edit: and why spend money on faneca? seriously?

toonsterwu
12-27-2007, 04:00 PM
I'd agree. I'd pass on Faneca. Spending huge money on an aging OG just isn't wise, as good as the OG may be. Anyhow, most seem to anticipate him going to Arizona to join Grimm (although I won't be surprised if Grimm gets a HC job this offseason).

BUSTKUNTLAWL
12-27-2007, 04:07 PM
John Tait needs to be moved to RT.

bearsfan_51
12-27-2007, 04:10 PM
John Tait needs to be moved to RT.

For who???

toonsterwu
12-27-2007, 04:12 PM
John Tait needs to be moved to RT.

The earliest you do that is probably in the 09-10 season. You are better off sticking with Tait at LT for another year and easing someone in at RT, unless you end up drafting Clady, where in that case, I'd try to make the switch now as I'm not huge on Clady getting eased in at RT.

k0ng
12-27-2007, 06:06 PM
What do you guys think about trading down in the first round? Say into the 20s and grab an extra secound rounder. None of the QBs seem worth it to me. The only guy I would like us to see draft in the 10-15 range is Kenny Phillips.

Trade down into the 20s, draft the best OT or RB prospect on the board (Wish Felix Jones was coming out). Five first day picks and the right FA signings would put us right back near the top.

toonsterwu
12-27-2007, 06:38 PM
Mildly depends on the board, but yeah, I'd be open to that. Problem is, gotta find someone to deal up, which is always easier to mock than for it to actually happen.

regoob2
12-27-2007, 06:41 PM
I'm always game for a trade down but I don't see it being very likely the price to trade us is high and no one in this class is a can't miss that someone would want to trade up for.

toonsterwu
12-27-2007, 06:49 PM
The general trade scenario that I could see right now is if the OT class drops a bit and Angelo is wary of taking someone (Otah/Clady). I think Angelo would take Long in a heartbeat. Another possibility is if we are in position to nab Phillips and someone gets aggressive and moves up for him. Well, I guess there's a 3rd possibility. If the CB class doesn't start coming off until the teens, which is possible, and a team wants to nab their guy like the Jets did with Darrelle Revis last year. There might be a couple others as things develop, but for now, those are the two situations, with the rest falling under the "another team fell in love with a guy" type move, which really can't be predicted at this stage.

Smokey Joe
12-27-2007, 11:37 PM
Turner will get a nice payday, but I don't see him getting this huge deal some are expecting... after all, he hasn't proven a whole lot in the NFL besides being a really good backup RB while filling in for LT...

bearfan
12-27-2007, 11:58 PM
Crayton got a 4yr 14million deal. I think Berrian can be had for under 20

pellepelle_10
12-28-2007, 01:04 AM
You make some valid points toons. I can see your concern with all of the suggestions I made. Here's my take on it.


McNabb or Anderson will be costly. Such a move would be a win now move in many respects, despite their ages (particularly on Anderson). In McNabb's case, we'd probably have to pony up this year's first, perhaps next year's first, and another pick or two. In Anderson's case, I think they'd hold firm on this year's first at the very least. I'm just not sure we are in a position to do such a move. If the cost is less than expected, yes, I ponder a move for eithe rone. But I'm not sold it'll be.

If Philly doesn't cut McNabb..chances are they're going to ask for the barn if anyone wants to snag him. My bet is Philly wants to move in another direction. If they plan on hoarding him and allowing the highest bidder to take him then I agree with you totally. If he's cut or McNabb demands a trade with a team he feels he can win with then we may still have high chance. This is the only way i'd consider him. Anderson could very well be costly as you said. If the price is right I'd definatelly say pull the trigger on him. I'd personally rather use a 1st rnd pick on a proven qb then one in the draft. The guy is only 24yrs old and has many years of improvement. This would be a very smart choice for a qb that is 6'6 229 and has a tremendus upside. Lets not mention he's had seasoning in the pro's already. If Cleveland demands multiple picks I'd probably pass which is highly likely.


On TE's - I wouldn't move Desmond Clark unless we got something decent. If not, I'd rather keep them. But a first 3 round pick, and I pull the trigger, I think. Even a 4th rounder I'd ponder as well. I'm not in a rush to dump Clark, but if we can get assets, I'd consider it. The staff was intrigued enough with Mines, and Mines holds some similarities to Clark at the same age (although less developed). But that's me.

Given what our receiving core has showed I wouldn't move Clark at all. Both him and Olsen have been safety nets for us. True we could get something for him but to me a 4th rnder is not worth what he gives to this team. I'd look at this no different than getting that 3rd rnder for TJ. I think it will turn around and haunt us. JMO though.


DT - I'd like to add a DT as well. I'm just not sure we have the money so splurge on a 2nd DT like Corey Williams. Corey's going to be awfully expensive and we'll have to pay Tommie Harris soon. That's a lot of money tied up inside. It's doable, particularly if we let Ricky Manning Jr. and Lance Briggs go, but do we really spend that much? I'd much rather draft a DT than spend big on one. A cheaper guy, someone like Starks, would be fine, but in that situation, it's also arguable if the player would be an upgrade over our depth.

If Corey Williams demands major money then I'd say pass. If we can get him for a similar contract we set up for Darwin Walker then I'd say definatelly go for it. We need depth and I'm not sold on guys who cannot stay healthy (a.k.a. Dvoracek who plays great as long as he's not on the sidelines.) The loss of Boone, Scott, and Tank have definatelly taken a toll on this group. We need solid depth here bad.


RB - I'd rather spend big on a RB than spend big on a DT, to be honest. That said, I'm not too enthused with spending big on a RB. But the thing is, unless we go RB early (and the first is very, very unlikely), I'm not in love with the 2nd tier and later on RB's. Someone will emerge, but who and will that someone fit in the context of what we need? A lot of it depends on which juniors come out. But I'd rather pick a safety early than a RB, and if we fail to add QB, then that goes ahead in the queue. And there's OL as well.

Given the amt of money Benson makes I'd say no to that. While Dvoracek proves to be very good when healthy he hasn't proven longevity 4 2 consecutive seasons. Currently we only have 1 proven starter that can stay somewhat healthy and thats Tommie Harris. I'd personally rather spend the money (and I don't me a ton) on a DT that will start than a RB that will start while Benson kills our cap and benches yet another season when he should be casted to the wolves. lol The only way I wouldn't mind us spending money on a RB is if we give Benson the boot. (i would honestly love to see this). This is why I say looking into the draft would be the best decision because we won't have to fork out as much. There are a lot of talented Jr. RB's that could emerge in this draft. Nobody speaks of Kevin Smith. Rashard Mendenhall could also be a possibility. If many of these top end Jr. rb's decide to go pro we could have a huge group to chose from and I don't see it out of the norm to get one of them in the 2nd given all the teams that already have solid starting backs.


S - I'm not in love with this safety class to feel comfortable about simply depending on the draft for filling our needs. I'd like to get at least on safety, if not two, in FA to bring in and compete. I like guys like Payne/McGowan/Manning, but they haven't proven enough and this draft class just doesn't impress unless we go after Phillips which.

Your love with the safety class in the draft is probably the same as my love for FA safeties that are available in FA. I don't see any quality players here..only bandaids. None of the current FA's for this position will be long term fixes. While there doesn't seem to be a ton of rookies that suit the bill I have faith in Angelo's ability to find a gem. This I can give him credit for and I'm sure he can find some top end Safeties in mid to later rnds as he has all throughout his career here. I see getting a FA Safety as a waste of cap space personally. Again, this is just my opinion.


OL - If we land one or two OL talents, this does create the opening to go after Phillips in round 1 if we so desired. I think Gross is too costly, and I still don't love Wharton as an OT. I think Starks is still the preference here in turns of cost and ability meshing the best. Stacey Andrews may be up there as well, as he's a solid RT option. Didn't realize he'd done so well at tackle for them this year. More I think about it, if we miss on someone, I'd make an aggressive bid for David Stewart. Solid, proven young starter for a 4th rounder? I'd do it. I'd like to get beefier inside if possible, which is what makes me wary on the Colts OG's, Jacob Bell, and the ilk. Add in that, while this OG class is weak, there will be some solid starters in the middle stanzas. Don't get me wrong, if we can grab a starting OG and OT in FA, then heck yeah. If not, though, I'm fine waiting on OG until the draft. If we go, say, Brian Brohm, in round 1 (which I'd be wary of), and Max Starks in FA, someone like Mike McGlynn in the 2nd would be intriguing (granted, I'd like to trade down, as I think he's more mid-late 2nd than early). A Schuening/Felton/Radovich/Thomas in the 3rd/4th would be fine. There's some others, too lazy to think right now.

This would be a solid solution. I think its fair to say we both agree that FA and the draft is necessary for this position. I'd be estatic to get Starks and a drafted Guard. I'd also be estatic if they selected any of the others and drafted day 1 or rnd 3(at the latest) another position. Metcalf/Brown, and Fred Miller need to be replaced. Thats all it comes down to. It's apparent 2 top end players need to come to this team to address it. Both the running game and the passing game have suffered greatly from it. This is stuff you already know though so I won't kick the dead horse anymore. :)

pellepelle_10
12-28-2007, 01:05 AM
Turner will get a nice payday, but I don't see him getting this huge deal some are expecting... after all, he hasn't proven a whole lot in the NFL besides being a really good backup RB while filling in for LT...

Is there anyway we can pry Chester Taylor from the Vikings? lol

bearsfan_51
12-28-2007, 01:20 AM
I think it's almost a guarantee that free agents will get more than we expect. It happens every single year.

I would personally rather not sign Starks. Right Tackles are easy enough to draft, and Starks has almost no ability to play on the left side (not to mention that would tie our ability to do much with Tait longterm).

toonsterwu
12-28-2007, 07:00 AM
Well

1) I'm not sold that Starks can't be a passable LT for a year or two. The quality of LT play isn't all that great these days.

2) Tait's contract is up after 09-10. If we sign a RT (whether it be Andrews/Starks or someone else), we'd draft a kid to develop, either this year or next. Maybe a Rinehart in the 3rd this year is a possible look. Or Carl Nicks, although he's looking like a potential 2nd rounder. Obviously, other possibilities. The guy would get a couple years to develop, during which he could be plugged in at guard. I didn't realize Tait's contract was so close to ending, and as such, I'm more okay with drafting a RT than I was earlier in the year because the chances of a guy coming in and being better than Tait at LT in the next year or two is probably marginal (definitely slim chance for 08-09, and average chance in 09-10). The preference is still to land a LT, but we could give ourselves a lot more flexibility to simply take the best guys rather than fitting for need.

_______________________________

Safeties in FA (based on draftdaddy's list) - I'm not sure that there aren't long term guys in the FA safety class. Madieu Williams has all the worlds talent. Playing in a simpler scheme may help him maximize that. Ken Hamlin could be a solid starter seeking more money. I'm not big on either of the Wilson's (Eugene or Gibril) but both have been decent-solid starters. That said, I would definitely pass on Eugene as I think he'll be way too costly for the performance. I'd consider Gibril, though. The RFA class holds some intrigue, although a lot won't be let go. I think OJ Atogwe gets a medium-high tender, so that'll strike him down. James Butler is an intriguing option. I'm not sure it makes sense for the Giants to put more than a low tender on him, but it's possible. If he's simply a low tender, I'd take a look because at that point, it would only cost money, as he was a UDFA. I have a hard time seeing the Titans put more than a low tender on Vincent Fuller, and if the price is right, I'd consider it for a 4th rounder. He has the desirable range and has shown flashes. Keeping McGowan would be nice for us. Someone like Jerome Carter or Gerald Sensabaugh is probably worth a look if the price is right, and depending on which tender they get.

RB Class - Obviously, a lot depends on which juniors come out. But if you accept the rumors and talk that's out there, Felix Jones/Kevin Smith/Steve Slaton all will stay. I'm a big fan of Kevin Smith and think he's a tad underrated. That said, he supposedly was told anywhere from the 2nd-4th this year and that led him to decide to stay. McFadden will be gone, and Mendenhall/Stewart look like potential first rounders, at best, early, early 2nd. if Jamaal Charles comes out (and rumors seem to point to him going back to school) or James Davis (rumors point to him going back to school, but with several junior RB's rumored to be staying, I wonder if he changes his mind), those are guys I'd look at in the 2nd. But there's a chance both go back to school, and then we are talking about Chris Johnson (I like him, but not really a Ron Turner fit, would Turner use him anymore than Garrett Wolfe?), Ray Rice (eh ... good back, but not in love with him to take him in the 2nd for us, which is where he'll likely go), Mike Hart (eh ... ), and a few others (Louis Rankin is a bit underrated, Matt Forte may be intriguing, Kalvin McRae could be worth a look, but all the rest are midround guys). Someone will emerge, but the pickings seem slim, depending on what the junior RB's do. Only time will tell on that front.
_________________

Btw, not sure what I was thinking earlier when I was typing. A lot of those RFA's will get medium to high tenders. I just blanked when I looked at the draftdaddy list and was typing the other night. David Stewart is likely to at least get a first round tender, if not the first/3rd tender. I can see Elton Brown with a low tender, but I could also see them slap a medium one on. Jason Brown probably gets a 1st round tender.

Actually, Geoff Hangartner might be a low tender guy and that's something I'd look at. Was a solid starter last year, and if he's a low tender, if we can nab him for a 5th rounder (and in this case, it'd be Carolina's 5th), I'd take a look at him as an interior option.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2007, 06:20 PM
I could see us signing Chris Brown... we almost did this offseason...

toonsterwu
12-28-2007, 06:30 PM
I could see it too, but dang if it doesn't excite me. If I was certain he'd stay healthy, sure. But eh ... just not sold on it.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2007, 06:41 PM
I still have faith in Benson, but you're not sold on him... I think Brown could be a very good backup and someone to push Benson. And I think with him being in a bit of a reduced role, he can stay healthy for at least the majority of the season.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
12-28-2007, 07:15 PM
I'm not sold on Andersen at all. The guy has some serious weapons around him. People talk like he has no talent around him.

Edwards is a superstar. Winslow is one of the more under rated players in the league. He is a huge weapon.

And the OL is a lot better than advertised. I would not shell out a first round pick for Anderson. I would happily give up the 2nd though.

Draft an OL in round 1; trade the 2nd for Anderson.

toonsterwu
12-28-2007, 07:39 PM
It's not whether or not I'm sold on Benson. It's more, if Benson is hurt or struggles, will Brown be able to push him and step in? I have high doubts about that.

As for Derek Anderson, the Browns hold all the cards on that due to his RFA status. I'd be surprised if they didn't hold firm. Now ... I could see a situation where, if Crennel leaves and Savage gets to pick another coach, maybe they cave and take a 2nd this year instead of a first this year, but it would likely require high future assets, perhaps a future 1st.

That said, all speculation on my part, though.

Smokey Joe
12-28-2007, 09:58 PM
If Courtney Greene comes out I wouldn't mind him in the 2nd or 3rd... either him or Josh Barrett are the best options at SS in the draft for us, IMO.

BeerBaron
12-28-2007, 10:07 PM
I think this is a bad year to need a safety in the draft...

Hurricane Ditka
12-29-2007, 12:56 AM
I think this is a bad year to need a safety in the draft...
It's a good thing we don't need a safety in the draft

pellepelle_10
12-29-2007, 01:04 AM
I could see it too, but dang if it doesn't excite me. If I was certain he'd stay healthy, sure. But eh ... just not sold on it.

I've been saying the exact same thing. He's great when he's healthy. They key word is WHEN. Wasting money on another guy who hasn't been healthy 1 full season is a waste. If he could stay healthy I'd be estatic. He's not and this worries me given our current injury prone runningback who lacks motivation.

pellepelle_10
12-29-2007, 01:06 AM
I still have faith in Benson, but you're not sold on him... I think Brown could be a very good backup and someone to push Benson. And I think with him being in a bit of a reduced role, he can stay healthy for at least the majority of the season.

Smokey he can't even stay healthy backing up Lendale White. What makes you think this is going to change with Benson? He's never been healthy his entire career. He even had injury concerns in college.

Geo
12-29-2007, 12:52 PM
I think Briggs is worth the money to stay, but I can see why we let him go... if we're lucky maybe he doesn't reach 75% of his snaps and we can franchise him and trade him.
Briggs hit that mark not too long ago, actually.

Jerry held a conference recently and said that they being more dynamic on offense was their #1 goal in the offseason, that indicates to me that Berrian, and likely Grossman, will be brought back.
If I were Angelo, I'd be more concerned with making my offense more consistent and effective than "more dynamic." Heck, the Bengals offense and Lions offense are dynamic, doesn't mean they're all that good.

k0ng
12-29-2007, 01:33 PM
Which of these SS prospects would be best for us?

Nic Harris
William Moore
Courtney Greene
Craig Steltz
Jamar Adams

regoob2
12-29-2007, 02:36 PM
Nic Harris has a ton of upside and the OU ties are there.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
12-29-2007, 04:31 PM
Because, you know, Grossman makes the offense more dynamic.

By that JA quote I hope that means Turner is gone.

bearsfan_51
12-29-2007, 08:37 PM
Because, you know, Grossman makes the offense more dynamic.

By that JA quote I hope that means Turner is gone.
How does he not? There's a difference between good and dynamic. There are things that Grossman can do that Griese or Orton cannot. There's no question about that.

DaBear89
12-29-2007, 09:28 PM
i was j/w how many of u guys outright want turner gone and how many of u like the idea of getting mike martz with the rumors detroit will let him go?

bearfan
12-29-2007, 10:42 PM
i was j/w how many of u guys outright want turner gone and how many of u like the idea of getting mike martz with the rumors detroit will let him go?

I like the idea, we want dynamic offense, he can give us one. My only thing is that unless we have a QB that makes minimal mistakes, we will have the same problems that the Lions had.

regoob2
12-29-2007, 11:41 PM
I like the idea, we want dynamic offense, he can give us one. My only thing is that unless we have a QB that makes minimal mistakes, we will have the same problems that the Lions had.

If we did bring him in then we might as well cut Benson the same day cause he would be even worse in a run and shoot offense. Wolfe would look good in that system.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2007, 01:36 AM
We're not going to bring in Martz. We already tried the Air Coryell offense with Terry Shea and it was a total disaster.

I expect Turner to be back, to the chagrin of most.

Hurricane Ditka
12-30-2007, 01:57 AM
I swear if they don't fire Ron Turner I will poop a brick, and throw it at the windows of your house.

Gay Ork Wang
12-30-2007, 08:24 AM
I swear if they don't fire Ron Turner I will poop a brick, and throw it at the windows of your house.
We only need a running game. Screw the QBs, McMahon wasnt that great either

regoob2
12-30-2007, 11:04 AM
We only need a running game. Screw the QBs, McMahon wasnt that great either

Look at the best teams in the NFL they all have great qb play. This ain't 85 anymore. If we get a chance to get a qb we have to take it. Grossman and Orton played fine late but there was a reason Orton was 3rd on the depth chart.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
12-30-2007, 01:55 PM
How does he not? There's a difference between good and dynamic. There are things that Grossman can do that Griese or Orton cannot. There's no question about that.

How does he not? Grossman is an abortion. He is horrible.

What good is it to be dynamic if you are horrible? He is so mechanically flawed it's sickening. Sure, he'll open up the offense by staring down receivers and throwing into triple coverage and make the team respect it, but what's the point if he's just going to fumble the next step or throw a dumb pick in the redzone?

Neither Grossman, Griese, Orton, are the answer. It's obvious and doesn't really need to be said.

I still want Brohm or Woodson in the first this year.

Hurricane Ditka
12-30-2007, 01:56 PM
Orton should be the starting quarterback next year. There I said it.

Hurricane Ditka
12-30-2007, 02:14 PM
I guess that's why Bradley doesn't play more. Honestly, if we keep Berrian, Bradley, and Hester and pick up a possession receiver we're in good shape with Kyle at the helm.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2007, 02:28 PM
How does he not? Grossman is an abortion. He is horrible.

What good is it to be dynamic if you are horrible? He is so mechanically flawed it's sickening. Sure, he'll open up the offense by staring down receivers and throwing into triple coverage and make the team respect it, but what's the point if he's just going to fumble the next step or throw a dumb pick in the redzone?

Neither Grossman, Griese, Orton, are the answer. It's obvious and doesn't really need to be said.

I still want Brohm or Woodson in the first this year.
That's neat, but he's still the quarterback that gives our teams the most options, hence "dynamic". I could care less as to everything else, as that was totally off-topic.

Gay Ork Wang
12-30-2007, 02:31 PM
BTW isnt hester due to an Extension?

Hurricane Ditka
12-30-2007, 02:34 PM
That's neat, but he's still the quarterback that gives our teams the most options, hence "dynamic". I could care less as to everything else, as that was totally off-topic.
But if Kyle gives us a better chance to win isn't tha tmore important that being dynamic?


We need to extend Tommie Harris. 8 sacks on a bad leg. We need him a whole hell of a lot more than we need Briggs.

regoob2
12-30-2007, 02:40 PM
Kyle Orton should be the strater next season if we stick with these 3. No doubt Tommie is more important that Briggs but what is he gonna want with Redding signing that huge contract.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2007, 02:42 PM
As for H-Ditka's, I wouldn't be against giving Orton a shot at the #1 spot next year, but in no way am I ready to declare him the #1 guy. He's had an ok performance in the last three games (though still pretty meh), but I'm not even close to overlooking his horrendous play when he was made the guy when it counted, rookie season or not.

I still think of the three, Grossman is the most likely to be the starter next year, though wouldn't be against outside options either.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2007, 02:43 PM
But if Kyle gives us a better chance to win isn't tha tmore important that being dynamic?
Assuming this is true, sure. I don't think we can say that with any confidence after three games though, one of which we didn't even win.

The defense has played much better the last few weeks, that's been the story more than anything else.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2007, 03:17 PM
Well we went from the 9th or 10th pick to the 15th or 16th, but that's alright, I'll gladly finish the season on a positive note and a two game winning streak.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2007, 03:23 PM
Of all things, the Rams-Cardinals game will decide whether the Bears-Lions are tied for the 14th pick, or whether the Lions pick 15th and the Bears pick 16th.

Smokey Joe
12-30-2007, 04:06 PM
I think Griese is gonna get cut or even traded if a team will give anything for him. I see Grossman getting signed to a cheap 1 or 2 year contract w/ incentives to compete for the starting job against Orton, and someone like Flacco drafted in the 2nd or 3rd... after all, Flacco has been scouted by the great Jerry Angelo for a while now, or so I read.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2007, 04:08 PM
I doubt anyone would trade us anything considering Griese's contract. It's too bad things didn't work out here, he's a really nice guy and has been a reliable backup option in his career. I'm sure there will be a team closer to a Superbowl run that will pick him up, or someone looking for a veteran mentor.

85ers
12-30-2007, 04:13 PM
Of all things, the Rams-Cardinals game will decide whether the Bears-Lions are tied for the 14th pick, or whether the Lions pick 15th and the Bears pick 16th.
Go Cardinals!

Obviously it was disappointing season but it was nice to end the season with a win. This offseason is going to be very interesting to watch, Angelo has a lot of work to do. Hopefully we'll add some young talent to the offensive line.

rickscott
12-30-2007, 06:24 PM
Bengals fan here wondering if Matt Toeania has been getting some PT and performing pretty well. It really irked me that we allowed him to go with all the old timers we have on our roster that will likely be cut after today. Has Matt been playing well for you? Thanks.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2007, 06:25 PM
Bengals fan here wondering if Matt Toeania has been getting some PT and performing pretty well. It really irked me that we allowed him to go with all the old timers we have on our roster that will likely be cut after today. Has Matt been playing well for you? Thanks.
Actually yes. He looks like a big tub of goo but I was impressed with his ability to collapse the pocket in limited duty. I think there's a spot for him on next year's team.

Scotty D
12-30-2007, 06:48 PM
BTW isnt hester due to an Extension?

Hmm thats interesting. I wonder what kind of contract Hester would be in line for. What do you guys think?

bearfan
12-30-2007, 07:17 PM
Well I thought Orton played well today. He was a bit up and down, but he did all the things that Grossman could do, and then some. He needs to work on bringing that ball down some, and his accuracy, but I would hope that he gets a shot at starter next year.

Gay Ork Wang
12-30-2007, 07:27 PM
AFAIR he signed 2 years the beginning...i dont even want to know what contract he is going to get

BeerBaron
12-30-2007, 08:04 PM
Hmm thats interesting. I wonder what kind of contract Hester would be in line for. What do you guys think?

id imagine something a little better than what roscoe parrish brought in earlier this year.

if he develops as a threat at WR more next year, it could be a lot higher...

DaBear89
12-30-2007, 08:36 PM
well Hester is signed thru 2009, i think if he has a "down" year as a returner, he only needs 2 TDs for the record. and if he breaks a record and has any kind of year as a receiver he will deserve a lot more than Parrish who got about 9.85 mill guaranteed thru 2011 i think. i would love to get harris signed this year and hester next year for 3-5 more years for base of around 1.5 a year. http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/12/26/bears-devin-hester-is-glad-the-bills-paid-roscoe-parrish/
that has the breakdown of roscoe's contract so 1.5 for hester is actually really nice bonuses aside.

bearsfan_51
12-30-2007, 09:40 PM
id imagine something a little better than what roscoe parrish brought in earlier this year.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that Hester will make quite a bit more than Roscoe ******* Parrish.

Gay Ork Wang
12-31-2007, 05:58 AM
It doesnt matter what Roscoe Parrish brings to the table on Offense. Hester is probably the hugest part on this team with Urlacher and Harris. These are mainly the 3 guys to keep. Hell u can build a new Offense with anyone. Hester is once in a lifetime Talent

regoob2
12-31-2007, 08:57 AM
As good as Hester is I hope we don't resign him until his contract is up. His value is at its highest right now and we would demand a very large contract.

VoteLynnSwan
12-31-2007, 12:59 PM
As good as Hester is I hope we don't resign him until his contract is up. His value is at its highest right now and we would demand a very large contract.

he would demand even more if he were to get on the open market.

Smokey Joe
12-31-2007, 01:00 PM
I listened to the live press conference on 670 just a couple of minutes ago. It seems like Lovie wants both Alex Brown and Briggs back. All the coaches will likely be brought back (but one or two will be fired as scapegoats, IMO). He was talking up Hester to be a no. 1, which makes me think they are going to let Berrian go (which is stupid, IMO).

Smokey Joe
12-31-2007, 01:05 PM
Oh yeah, he said he likes the core of the offensive line, and I think Brown will be brought back. Miller is pretty much gone, IMO, and I see them keeping Garza but also bringing in someone in the 3rd or 4th round to add some competition. Also, he said they want Grossman back but he sees stability at QB happening eventually in the future (me thinks a draft pick on the 1st day with QB).

And Berrian was talking to 670thescore, and he said he wants to stay a bear, and money isn't the most important thing, he wants to know what his role will be and how they will address the QB situation as well.

toonsterwu
12-31-2007, 01:31 PM
We're not going to bring in Martz. We already tried the Air Coryell offense with Terry Shea and it was a total disaster.

I expect Turner to be back, to the chagrin of most.

Side note - I wonder if people somewhat realize that Martz's offense was designed after the Turners' in many respects. Granted, there's some slight differences between Ron and Norv's offenses, but for the most part, they are similar. Martz just forgot how to run, but some of his passing game is similar to the Turners' considering the time he spent in DC.

toonsterwu
12-31-2007, 01:33 PM
I doubt anyone would trade us anything considering Griese's contract. It's too bad things didn't work out here, he's a really nice guy and has been a reliable backup option in his career. I'm sure there will be a team closer to a Superbowl run that will pick him up, or someone looking for a veteran mentor.

Agreed, if Griese is on his way out, it's as a cut.

toonsterwu
12-31-2007, 01:58 PM
I'm fine with Alex Brown back. He'd probably bring back a 4th rounder a best. It means you somewhat waste a 2nd rounder on Dan Bazuin last year, but you shouldn't compound one mistake with another. Based on this year, Alex/Adewale should start, with Mark rotating in.

IMO, Hester would be lucky to be a good 2 next year. Who knows, though, maybe he's a quick study. But we really need to bring back Berrian. I still say Berrian holds more value than Briggs. It's somewhat funny, to me, that a few years after Shea leaves, we start having the pieces for his passing game to a certain extent, with guys like Berrian/Hester/Davis, and to a lesser extent, Bradley.

Berrian or Briggs, and I still lean Berrian. If we could do both without negatively hurting us long run with costs, I wouldn't mind. But that seems a bit of a stretch, and thus, I'm still okay with Jamar Williams or Michael Okwo at weakside linebacker.

What exactly does core of the OL mean? If it was me, I'd say the OL core was just Kreutz and Tait. Anyhow, Brown should go. We need some youth somewhere, even if it's at guard.

Smokey Joe
12-31-2007, 02:13 PM
I see them brining back Brown, if he proves he's healthy, because of how this org. is usually loyal to vets, and Brown has stated he would like to return (and try and end his career on a high note). I think if healthy he can provide us with some average-above average play. Garza, while he did not play like he did in 06, wasn't completely terrible in 07. This is how I see the OLine turning out...

LT - Draftee/FA
LG - Brown
C - Kreutz
RG - Garza
RT - Tait

St. Clair is a very solid backup at all the spots except C. I see someone getting drafted in the 3rd or 4th round to give Garza some competition at RG and perhaps a developmental guy in the 5th or something to develop at LG.

BuckNaked
12-31-2007, 02:18 PM
What would it take to pry Alex Brown from you guys? Perhaps a late 3rd/4th rounder?

toonsterwu
12-31-2007, 02:22 PM
I tend to think our OL will look more like

LT - Tait
OG - Brown/Metcalf/Rookie battling it out
C - Kreutz.
OG - Garza
RT - FA/Rookie

Short of it is, I have a hard time seeing us grab anyone to step in right away at LT. I tend to think Tait will have the job for at least next year. I mean, the only LT I would play over Tait (draft wise) would be Clady. As much as I like Williams, I think they'd start him inside or at RT, and same goes for Otah/Jake Long.

_________________

Brown probably can't bring in anything more than a late 3rd/early 4th, which might lead us to keep him.

Smokey Joe
12-31-2007, 02:33 PM
What would it take to pry Alex Brown from you guys? Perhaps a late 3rd/4th rounder?
It looks like Lovie is pretty set on keeping him so it would be a 3rd, minimum, I would think.

Smokey Joe
12-31-2007, 02:34 PM
I tend to think our OL will look more like

LT - Tait
OG - Brown/Metcalf/Rookie battling it out
C - Kreutz.
OG - Garza
RT - FA/Rookie

Short of it is, I have a hard time seeing us grab anyone to step in right away at LT. I tend to think Tait will have the job for at least next year. I mean, the only LT I would play over Tait (draft wise) would be Clady. As much as I like Williams, I think they'd start him inside or at RT, and same goes for Otah/Jake Long.

_________________

Brown probably can't bring in anything more than a late 3rd/early 4th, which might lead us to keep him.

If we get Long, I think he would fill in at LT, same with Clady. I tend to agree with you on Otah and Williams.

Smokey Joe
12-31-2007, 02:53 PM
if Cameron is fired, and that seems very likely, we'd be stupid to at least consider going after Cameron.

BeerBaron
12-31-2007, 02:59 PM
I think Tait still has some life in him at LT and Kreutz is set at C, but it wouldn't totally surprise me to see some shake up elsewhere.

Plus, i think any rookie OT they might draft should go in at RT for at least a year barring an injury to Tait. Let him pick up speed of the game there where mistakes hurt a little less and once Tait is done, move him on over, sort of like what the Rams are doing with Alex Barron and Orlando Pace.

BTW, i was just wondering what the consensus is here on what QB the bears should take if they do lean that way in round 1. I figure Ryan will be long gone by the early teens where the bears are picking but lets say Woodson and Brohm remain and the bears definitally want to go that way.

I personally think Woodson would be the better pick up since he has the higher upside but needs some polishing. He could sit for a year or so behind Orton or a FA while he gets adjusted.

Id still like to see them go OT but i was looking for some thoughts on that

DaBear89
12-31-2007, 04:44 PM
i think if we sign grossman to compete wit orton we could get woodson and not let him worry bout playing time. if we want to let rex walk and bring in som1 to compete wit orton it'll be brohm

Smokey Joe
12-31-2007, 04:45 PM
I see Matt Ryan slipping of the big 3. Besides his "intangibles", he doesn't have any great features. His arm won't wow anyone, he doesn't have a good deep ball, and his frame ain't all that great. I see him falling into the 20's or even to the 2nd round. Also, with that being said, I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole with our pick. If it was between Woodson and Brohm, I'd probably take Brohm because of his higher floor and how is more NFL ready. But I could go either way...

I am still hoping for Clady in the 1st and Flacco (who is my favorite QB in this whole draft) in the 2nd.

BeerBaron
12-31-2007, 04:47 PM
I see Matt Ryan slipping of the big 3. Besides his "intangibles", he doesn't have any great features. His arm won't wow anyone, he doesn't have a good deep ball, and his frame ain't all that great. I see him falling into the 20's or even to the 2nd round. Also, with that being said, I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole with our pick. If it was between Woodson and Brohm, I'd probably take Brohm because of his higher floor and how is more NFL ready. But I could go either way...

I am still hoping for Clady in the 1st and Flacco (who is my favorite QB in this whole draft) in the 2nd.

i just read where scott said the other night that he wouldnt touch Flacco before the third...id tend to agree

Smokey Joe
12-31-2007, 04:49 PM
i just read where scott said the other night that he wouldnt touch Flacco before the third...id tend to agree
can you give me a link?

Plus, I like Scott, but I disagree on a lot of his views about QB's, this year at least...

DaBear89
12-31-2007, 04:54 PM
lol, u should read the ATL thread about scott having them take Ryan at 3/4/5

BeerBaron
12-31-2007, 04:58 PM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16365

im fairly certain it was in that big mess somewhere but i couldn't find it in a quick scan right now. Ill keep looking though...

I believe the reasoning he gave was that his accuracy was spotty and that turned him off a little

BeerBaron
12-31-2007, 04:59 PM
here we go:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16418

There are just more quarterbacks available this year. As I said a year ago Brennan hasn't answered any questions, there are the same issues with him now as there were a year ago. I see him as a 2nd round pick but the Senior Bowl is going to play a big role for him.

As for Flacco, I think he is overhyped right now to be honest. He can definitely wing the ball and he looks the part physically but I haven't been impressed with his accuracy. I wouldn't touch him before round three.

sweetness34
12-31-2007, 06:07 PM
Hester showed flashes of being an effective WR. He needs more consistency but I can see him down the road being at least a #3 WR, if not a #2 with his speed and quickness. Him on the field alone even if he doesn't touch the ball helps us greatly with field position and fooling defenses.

BeerBaron
12-31-2007, 06:39 PM
Hester showed flashes of being an effective WR. He needs more consistency but I can see him down the road being at least a #3 WR, if not a #2 with his speed and quickness. Him on the field alone even if he doesn't touch the ball helps us greatly with field position and fooling defenses.

his development at WR is key to the deal he gets.

if he continues as a spectacular return man but isn't much more than an ocassional WR threat, his deal will prolly just be a better one than what parrish got.

but if he does both, it could be one helluva deal

toonsterwu
12-31-2007, 10:44 PM
If we are picking between Woodson/Brohm, I'd prefer to the upside route and Woodson if we were set on going QB. That said, I'd prefer Flacco in the 2nd (and I'm not sure Woodson won't be in the 2nd - of the "top 3", I tend to think he has the biggest chance of falling, even though I like him the best out of the "top 3". I put it in quotes because Woodson's my 4th QB right now.)

Smokey Joe
12-31-2007, 11:16 PM
My QB rankings are Woodson, Brohm, Ryan, Brennan, Flacco. Flacco would be higher but he is a D1-FCS QB, or whatever their division is called.

DaBear89
12-31-2007, 11:56 PM
say we take OT in the 1st, and by some way Flacco and Brennan are gone by our 2nd, would u guys rather take an ainge who can possibly fall to the 3rd of go with WR? i really wouldnt mind a WR especially if things go sour with berrian. also, who do u guys like more Hardy or Bowman?

regoob2
01-01-2008, 12:04 AM
If Berrian leaves we would have to address WR in some way either through FA or the draft. I'd like Ainge in the 3rd. I wouldn't want any QB out of the top 3 in the first 2 rounds.

Smokey Joe
01-01-2008, 02:35 AM
I believe there are only 4 QB's worth us drafting this year... Flacco, Woodson, Brohm, or Ryan. They all have potential on upside. Everyone else in this draft looks more like possible solid backup options rather then potentially a good starting QB... except maybe Brennan and Josh Johnson, but they are more WCO guys.

DaBear89
01-01-2008, 02:45 AM
so 08 opponents were set
Home: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Philadelphia
Away: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, Atlanta, Carolina, Houston, Indianapolis, St. Louis

our away schedule seems very winnable. besides our division IND is the only really tough game. home is a bit tougher with TB, JAX, and then the divisional games. rough guess if we get back to form easy 5-3 on the road and maybe 5-3 at home? wat do u guys think?

Gay Ork Wang
01-01-2008, 08:53 AM
We should get DET next year. Ind is going to be though. Houston is on an upside. Minnesota depends on the Passing Game is guess.

We play 5 Teams below 500, 3 of them 7-9 and the rest is above including 5 Playoff Teams. I think its going to be pretty hard

toonsterwu
01-01-2008, 09:01 AM
say we take OT in the 1st, and by some way Flacco and Brennan are gone by our 2nd, would u guys rather take an ainge who can possibly fall to the 3rd of go with WR? i really wouldnt mind a WR especially if things go sour with berrian. also, who do u guys like more Hardy or Bowman?

If the top 5 QB's are gone by our pick in the 2nd, then I wait. No need to reach for a guy when we have other needs. In that situation, I'd look at, positionally, perhaps a wide receiver, a safety, a running back, or a defensive tackle, probably in that order.

Smokey Joe
01-01-2008, 11:30 AM
as for WR, I would like Adarius Bowman. He is big and physical, can cross the middle, and constantly makes play. Similar to Anquan Boldin... I think Bowman will slip because of his 40, also similar to Boldin.

Gay Ork Wang
01-01-2008, 12:34 PM
id want a Boldin

bearsfan_51
01-01-2008, 12:43 PM
We should get DET next year. Ind is going to be though. Houston is on an upside. Minnesota depends on the Passing Game is guess.

We play 5 Teams below 500, 3 of them 7-9 and the rest is above including 5 Playoff Teams. I think its going to be pretty hard

It's a new season, people thought we were going to be a hard team to play too. Things change.

BeerBaron
01-01-2008, 10:55 PM
if the QB's are gone, i have no issue in taking a WR. but i would want it to be a speedster to replace berrian if thats the reasoning behind taking one there.

bearfan
01-01-2008, 11:13 PM
if the QB's are gone, i have no issue in taking a WR. but i would want it to be a speedster to replace berrian if thats the reasoning behind taking one there.

I am on the other end of the spectrum, I would want a big phisical guy with good hands. We have enough speed guys on our team

regoob2
01-01-2008, 11:47 PM
The only guy I'd consider in the 1st in Kelly but still I wouldn't prefer that.

DaBear89
01-02-2008, 12:11 AM
in no way was i saying the 1st, i say we take clady/otah rnd 1 then a WR in the 2nd. even if the QBs were there i still lean towards WR especially if we cut moose. thats y i like bowman, hes the big physical guy who was doing a lot of blocking in his bowl game.

regoob2
01-02-2008, 12:19 AM
It depends on how these guys run. Dowman, Hardy, Sweed all look good depending on there 40.

BeerBaron
01-02-2008, 06:17 PM
It depends on how these guys run. Dowman, Hardy, Sweed all look good depending on there 40.

not so much sweed unless hes available in round 3 and the bears haven't taken a WR yet...

i think the best bet though is to resign berrian and give muhammad 1 more year. they arent going to resign brings, so why not throw some money berrians way. He's certainly not elite, but hes adequate enough IMO and he'll be cheaper to bring back that way.

Smokey Joe
01-02-2008, 07:46 PM
I'd rather franchise Berrian then sign him to a big deal. He still hasn't proven he's worth the big time contract...

Jamaal Charles really intrigues me. If he's there in the 2nd when we pick, it would be awfully tough to pass him up.

Gay Ork Wang
01-02-2008, 08:05 PM
u think his stock rose so much and so many teams need RBs?

BeerBaron
01-02-2008, 08:39 PM
I'd rather franchise Berrian then sign him to a big deal. He still hasn't proven he's worth the big time contract...

Jamaal Charles really intrigues me. If he's there in the 2nd when we pick, it would be awfully tough to pass him up.

so youd rather franchise him and pay him the average of the 5 highest WR contracts in the league?? yeah frickin right....a nice few million dollar extention should be plenty to keep him around

as for charles....theres no way the bears take a 1st day running back. its still too early to give up on benson and they just used a 3rd last year on wolfe. the only way a new RB is coming into town is if its a FA

DaBear89
01-02-2008, 09:57 PM
does any1 kno the price tag julius jones? i really like him as our #2 and he's not gonna cost michael turner $$$. i'ld really like to sign him, Berrian, give tommie an extension. then cut fred miller, moose, archulerta, and darwin walker. in the briggs thread it was mentioned where that would put us at about 30 million in cap space. minus JJ's, BB's, and tommie's money there still should be som money and i would luv for that to go to briggs if possible.
if we do that b4 the draft i would luv to see us get Clady/Otah in the 1st, Bowman in the 2nd if there (if not BPA at S/LB/QB in that order), then the 2 of those 3 positions in the 3rd or 1 and an OL.

regoob2
01-02-2008, 10:46 PM
What picks do we have in the draft? 1,2,3,3(SD),then what? thanks.

DaBear89
01-02-2008, 11:06 PM
we have a 4th, 6th, and 7th. we lost our 5th(conditional) in the Darwin Walker trade

k0ng
01-02-2008, 11:37 PM
Should get a compensatory pick too.

regoob2
01-02-2008, 11:38 PM
we have a 4th, 6th, and 7th. we lost our 5th(conditional) in the Darwin Walker trade

I've heard 4th and 5th. Is it a 5th for sure?

DaBear89
01-02-2008, 11:46 PM
idk if the condition was met to upgrade it to a 4th rounder. it was a 5th but could change based on walker's playing time and he missed a good amount of time so who knos

MidwayMonster31
01-02-2008, 11:59 PM
I think it will be a 5th round pick for Darwin Walker, but the Bears traded Chris Harris to Carolina for their 5th round pick, so they would use Carolina's pick.

DaBear89
01-03-2008, 12:05 AM
damn i completely forgot about the Harris trade

regoob2
01-03-2008, 12:06 AM
OK, so we got,
round 1. 14th
round 2. 45th
round 3. 77th and 90th (SD)
round 4. 109th
round 5. 140th (Carolina)
round 6. 173rd
round 7. 205th

DaBear89
01-03-2008, 12:09 AM
sounds good

regoob2
01-03-2008, 01:29 AM
Ya I don't think that right cause of the supp. draft. I'll figure it out.

bearsfan_51
01-03-2008, 02:00 AM
so youd rather franchise him and pay him the average of the 5 highest WR contracts in the league?? yeah frickin right....a nice few million dollar extention should be plenty to keep him around
Do you have any idea how free agency works?

Gay Ork Wang
01-03-2008, 02:27 AM
Ur so freakin mean bf51, but really always right. FA would maybe cost us more

BeerBaron
01-03-2008, 01:43 PM
Do you have any idea how free agency works?

hes no stud. anyone willing to throw big #1 reciever kind of money at him can have him. I just don't think that will be the case

something about what patrick crayton got to stay in dallas is all the more i figure itll take to keep him a bear, and thats in NO WAY close to what it would cost to franchise tag him for one year

bearsfan_51
01-03-2008, 02:47 PM
Berrian will make more than Crayton. He's more talented and players make much more during free agency than if they sign deals before so.

And do we really have the 45th pick? I'm pretty sure it's the 41st.

Gay Ork Wang
01-03-2008, 02:53 PM
I thought we pick 14th? so plus 31 other teams we should be at 45

Smokey Joe
01-03-2008, 03:37 PM
we move up each round so 31 plus 13 equals 44th.

bearsfan_51
01-03-2008, 03:45 PM
we move up each round so 31 plus 13 equals 44th.
The order reverses in terms of SOS. Therefore, in the 2nd round, of the teams that were 7-9 this year we'll pick 2nd to first instead of 2nd to last. I believe that's 41st.

C'mon Smokey...I expect more from you.

Gay Ork Wang
01-03-2008, 03:46 PM
yea i tried to edit it cause of the forfeited pick. So 14+31 - 1 cause of the Pats so 44

EDIT: Rly? didnt know that. So the 11th + 31 -1...yea 41

Hurricane Ditka
01-03-2008, 04:02 PM
The order reverses in terms of SOS. Therefore, in the 2nd round, of the teams that were 7-9 this year we'll pick 2nd to first instead of 2nd to last. I believe that's 41st.

C'mon Smokey...I expect more from you.
Really? More? We're lucky we got we got.

BeerBaron
01-03-2008, 04:05 PM
Berrian will make more than Crayton. He's more talented and players make much more during free agency than if they sign deals before so.


but if he goes out and doesn't find any big money suitors, he can lose money that the bears potentially would have given him to stay because they saw no one else wanted him

bearsfan_51
01-03-2008, 04:20 PM
but if he goes out and doesn't find any big money suitors, he can lose money that the bears potentially would have given him to stay because they saw no one else wanted him

He's the only legit receiver on the market, he's going to find money and plenty of it. Honestly I think if he comes back it'll be because he wants to be here and doesn't want to move like he said.

Smokey Joe
01-03-2008, 04:20 PM
The order reverses in terms of SOS. Therefore, in the 2nd round, of the teams that were 7-9 this year we'll pick 2nd to first instead of 2nd to last. I believe that's 41st.

C'mon Smokey...I expect more from you.
I think you're wrong...

bearsfan_51
01-03-2008, 04:22 PM
I think your wrong...

I think your is a possesive term. You're means you are.

And I'm not. Feel free to look it up, I'm too lazy.

BeerBaron
01-03-2008, 04:28 PM
He's the only legit receiver on the market, he's going to find money and plenty of it. Honestly I think if he comes back it'll be because he wants to be here and doesn't want to move like he said.

well thats a good reason too but i dont think the bears will give him elite WR money even then

basically, back to my original point, hes not worth franchising

regoob2
01-03-2008, 04:32 PM
I think he gets resigned. He is not elite for the NFL but a lot of players get more in FA cause the teams needs that position badly. If he wants to much for a long term deal then I would definetly tag him. Yes we would be overpaying for him but I'm not comfortable with Moose #1, Hester #2, Bradley #3. All those guys ar #3's at best right now.

Smokey Joe
01-03-2008, 04:53 PM
I think your is a possesive term. You're means you are.

And I'm not. Feel free to look it up, I'm too lazy.
you quoted me before I got to correct my mistake. Here is the 2007 nfl draft... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_nfl_draft

The Rams, Panthers, Steelers, Packers, Jaguars, Bengals, Titans, and Giants all had similar records of 8-8 in the 2006-7 season. In the 1st round, the order of their selections was (# in paranthesis is the selection number in that round): Rams(13), Panthers(14), Steelers(15), Packers(16), Jaguars(17), Bengals(1, Titans(19), and Giants(20).

In the 2nd round the order of the teams in the 13-20 range changed to (prev. means previously): Panthers(13,prev.14), Steelers(14,prev.15), Packers(15, prev.16), Jaguars(16,prev.17), Bengals (17,prev.18), Titans(18,prev.19), Giants(19,prev.20), and Rams (20,prev.13).

This pattern continues for the rest of the draft. This is wikipedia I am using as my source, so I double checked with nfl.com (http://http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft). Sure enough, the draft order was exactly how I put it.

So, the Bears will be picking 44th overall in the 2nd round of the 2008 NFL Draft, and you are wrong.

Gay Ork Wang
01-03-2008, 05:17 PM
EDIT: sry my wrong.

anyways BF, how would ur perfect draft look like? (realistic :D)

regoob2
01-03-2008, 10:20 PM
Well I was looking at chicagobears.com and Lovie and JA say our biggest need is to get the run back on track. Do you guys think RB in the draft or FA i'd prefer FA cause i'd rather address the OL in the draft. Round 1 and 2 could have some solid lineman in it.

BeerBaron
01-03-2008, 11:14 PM
Well I was looking at chicagobears.com and Lovie and JA say our biggest need is to get the run back on track. Do you guys think RB in the draft or FA i'd prefer FA cause i'd rather address the OL in the draft. Round 1 and 2 could have some solid lineman in it.

i think the line needs rebuilt with a healthy benson back behind it. Its too early to give up on him and, add to it that wolfe was a third round pick just last year and i don't see them going RB anywhere in the high rounds of the draft.

revamp the line and see what you have in a healthy benson first

bearsfan_51
01-03-2008, 11:15 PM
I wouldn't be suprised about drafting a runningback in the 2nd round to be honest. It wouldn't be my first choice, but I could certainly see it happening, particularly if we pick up a lineman in FA.

regoob2
01-03-2008, 11:19 PM
Ya but what OL will be available in FA? I think that RB would be better addressed in FA and OL in the draft, like baron said.

bearsfan_51
01-03-2008, 11:48 PM
Ya but what OL will be available in FA? I think that RB would be better addressed in FA and OL in the draft, like baron said.
Max Starks, Alan Faneca, Travelle Wharton, Floyd Womack, hell I dunno.

I'm not saying I would do it, but I could see a scenario where we draft a runningback higher than some people may think.

BeerBaron
01-03-2008, 11:53 PM
Max Starks, Alan Faneca, Travelle Wharton, Floyd Womack, hell I dunno.

I'm not saying I would do it, but I could see a scenario where we draft a runningback higher than some people may think.

its understandable but im of the frame of mind where i wouldn't like it....

maybe if a good deal of the juniors declare and a talented one falls into our laps...but even then i don't know if would be all that big of need in comparison to some other positions.

as for FA OT's, wharton and womack just don't overly impress me. i wouldn't want to throw huge money at them. are they better than fred miller? almost certainly...but he, i don't know.

maybe max starks. he has starting expereince as a RT so i could see that one maybe

DaBear89
01-03-2008, 11:55 PM
i'ld much rather go OL in the draft just b/c the LT potential is more present there. the speed back we need is more present in FA with turner and Julius Jones there.

BeerBaron
01-03-2008, 11:59 PM
i'ld much rather go OL in the draft just b/c the LT potential is more present there. the speed back we need is more present in FA with turner and Julius Jones there.

those guys might be looking to getting out and on their own as a teams feature back, something neither has had the chance to do so far in their careers.

i agree that OT is probably better addressed via the draft, but if the bears really want a FA RB to go with benson, it will probably have to be one of the second tier FA variety. im trying to think of some names though....maybe a deshaun foster. someone like that

pellepelle_10
01-04-2008, 01:29 AM
Well I was looking at chicagobears.com and Lovie and JA say our biggest need is to get the run back on track. Do you guys think RB in the draft or FA i'd prefer FA cause i'd rather address the OL in the draft. Round 1 and 2 could have some solid lineman in it.

In all honesty I think rb in the draft will be our best option IF many of these top end rb's decide to go pro. My first vote would be Jonathan Stewart but chances are we could also get one in the 2nd depending on what kind of depth we have. I'm hoping we get someone who is capable of being an everydown back and not some guy we see as being a 3rd down only. Benson has a good upside but his lack of motivation is a killer. Listening to what Angelo had to say in his press conference it seems as though someone of imapact is going to be a high possibility for the Bears regardless (fa or draft) We have quite a few options. It's pretty apparent that this position needs major attention in both FA and draft. Miller and Brown/Metcalf aren't new and they played a significant role in destroying our production. I'm hoping for a serious upgrade for both positions.

pellepelle_10
01-04-2008, 01:32 AM
those guys might be looking to getting out and on their own as a teams feature back, something neither has had the chance to do so far in their careers.

i agree that OT is probably better addressed via the draft, but if the bears really want a FA RB to go with benson, it will probably have to be one of the second tier FA variety. im trying to think of some names though....maybe a deshaun foster. someone like that

Given the need for legit competition I don't believe we'd take a look at another injury prone RB. Add Chris Brown to this list to go along with the number of injured players we've seen go down this season. Foster is good when healthy but he simply cannot beat injuries. Same goes for Brown who is great when he stays on the field for his brief stint.

pellepelle_10
01-04-2008, 01:33 AM
Max Starks, Alan Faneca, Travelle Wharton, Floyd Womack, hell I dunno.

I'm not saying I would do it, but I could see a scenario where we draft a runningback higher than some people may think.

It just may be in the 1st as I've been saying for quite sometime now. *hehehehe*

BeerBaron
01-04-2008, 10:19 AM
It just may be in the 1st as I've been saying for quite sometime now. *hehehehe*

for the same reason the dolphins wont consider mcfadden, so the bears won't consider a first round running back.

i think who we have plus a mid-level FA can be fantastic behind an upgraded o-line. look for replacements at at least RT and maybe LG and send a healthy benson in behind em and see what we have there.

getting a running game going plus having a QB, like orton, who will at worst protect the football, and the offense is at where it has to be for the healthy defense to get them back into playoff contention

regoob2
01-04-2008, 11:40 AM
Ronnie Brown is a great back when healthy and there's a big difference between #1 money and #14 money. I wouldn't be mad or suprised if we went RB in round 1. I'd much rather prefer a FA though. We also have to consider JA isn't known for taking OL in the 1st round, the last time we did it didn't work out all that well with Colombo.

toonsterwu
01-05-2008, 02:22 AM
Yeah, I'm starting to buy into the RB/DT talk for round 1. If a Sedrick Ellis slips (not impossible, although a bit unlikely) I wouldn't be stunned if we went that route. I doubt we'd trade up for either spot, but if someone is there, it wouldn't shock me. I'd rather not go RB, although I could see Rashard Mendenhall. I'm just gut guessing that they may be wary of Jonathan Stewart. But if we draft a RB, I'd personally prefer to wait. With talk of Felix Jones, Ray Rice, and James Davis potentially declaring, we could nab someone good in round 2, and perhaps even in the 3rd. I could see James Davis or Ray Rice in the third, and while I'm not a big fan of Rice at all, a lot of people really like him and I do buy Rice as a potential everydown back in the NFL.

DaBear89
01-05-2008, 02:50 AM
im gonna be really pissed if we dont go OT in round 1. i think some people here are talking themselves into taking what could be our 3rd/4th biggest needs in round 1. thats just ridiculous to me. and do we really need DT help? how many guys did we go thru this year. and i'ld rather give that kid from the minny game a shot and/or seeing if dusty is mike brown v2.0 b4 spending a 1st on a DT. to me Mendenhall is the only RB worth in rnd 1(aside the obvious Dmac) b/c there is no real questions about his blocking abilities.

pellepelle_10
01-05-2008, 04:03 AM
Ronnie Brown is a great back when healthy and there's a big difference between #1 money and #14 money. I wouldn't be mad or suprised if we went RB in round 1. I'd much rather prefer a FA though. We also have to consider JA isn't known for taking OL in the 1st round, the last time we did it didn't work out all that well with Colombo.

As much as I wouldn't mind a top tier Lineman to be drafted this year I've debated your concern with Angelo's past for 2 years now on this board. As much as I would "like" for him to take a top end Lineman this year, history shows time and time again as you've just said..he simply doesn't pull the trigger. I totally agree with you regoob. I have a feeling a top end Lineman will be taken out of FA and another will be drafted high 2nd day. I don't mind a 1st rnd lineman. Given Angelo's statements towards Benson's production (which didn't sound positive at all) makes me think that someone of a high caliber is coming to Chi-Town. I'm banking on a 1st rnd rb who deals damage and can be an every down back ala Mendenhall, or Stewart. This is just my opinion though. *shrugs* I wouldn't be upset at getting Turner, Ward, or Fargas.

pellepelle_10
01-05-2008, 04:09 AM
Yeah, I'm starting to buy into the RB/DT talk for round 1. If a Sedrick Ellis slips (not impossible, although a bit unlikely) I wouldn't be stunned if we went that route. I doubt we'd trade up for either spot, but if someone is there, it wouldn't shock me. I'd rather not go RB, although I could see Rashard Mendenhall. I'm just gut guessing that they may be wary of Jonathan Stewart. But if we draft a RB, I'd personally prefer to wait. With talk of Felix Jones, Ray Rice, and James Davis potentially declaring, we could nab someone good in round 2, and perhaps even in the 3rd. I could see James Davis or Ray Rice in the third, and while I'm not a big fan of Rice at all, a lot of people really like him and I do buy Rice as a potential everydown back in the NFL.

toons..I'm honestly crossing all fingers that a lot of these jr. Rb's declare so we can have more options for the 1st and 2nd picks. Having more top end RB's could allow us to wait until the 2nd and still get a good one as u said. Felix Jones has shown a ton but I'm scared he can't handle a full workload. I'm wondering if he will crumble like Bush and Caddilac has in the pro's. He may not but the way Angelo talks it seems as though he's going to bring someone in to give Benson some stiff competition. I don't think its going to be a 3rd down back. I'm thinking more like someone who can bench his butt for an entire season. I'm hoping for Mendenhall since he's from here or Stewart because he's a pounder who can break long runs. Both I think will do very well in the pro's. Kevin Smith I think could be a surprise if he decides to go pro. I don't think he's another Salaam, Troy Davis flop. This guy has played well against top end teams (Texas this year).

pellepelle_10
01-05-2008, 04:11 AM
im gonna be really pissed if we dont go OT in round 1. i think some people here are talking themselves into taking what could be our 3rd/4th biggest needs in round 1. thats just ridiculous to me. and do we really need DT help? how many guys did we go thru this year. and i'ld rather give that kid from the minny game a shot and/or seeing if dusty is mike brown v2.0 b4 spending a 1st on a DT. to me Mendenhall is the only RB worth in rnd 1(aside the obvious Dmac) b/c there is no real questions about his blocking abilities.

I'd be truly shocked if we went DT in the 1st given our offensive concerns. It would be a total shock givn all our problems on offense. You never know with Angelo though.

Smokey Joe
01-05-2008, 09:03 AM
If we draft a UT in the first round that tells me that the team has no intentions of bringing Harris back, and that would be just plain stupid.

Bearsfan123
01-05-2008, 10:49 AM
I heard Jamaal Charles declared, should we be interested?

Gay Ork Wang
01-05-2008, 11:46 AM
if ellis drops we should trade down

toonsterwu
01-05-2008, 01:15 PM
I'm a huge fan of Kevin Smith. I think he'll be a good back in the NFL. Not great, but good. That said, with so many juniors potentially bolting, I'll be surprised if he goes. Would just seem foolish right now when he could be a top back next year.

Really a side note, but I buy Sedrick Ellis as a tampa 2 NT as well as a tampa
2 UT. He holds the point better than he's given credit for.

regoob2
01-05-2008, 01:30 PM
Sed Ellis seems to be very strong and lean for 295 I would like him in a Bears uni at NT, I think we will be a great pro and would be a very good NT in our scheme. I just think we have a lot of needs and if we can stay some what healthy at DT next year I think we will be fine.

Gay Ork Wang
01-05-2008, 02:20 PM
He might be dominant, but we have big holes to fix

BeerBaron
01-05-2008, 11:47 PM
i keep saying this. i do not believe, in any way shape or form, that RB is a first day need for the bears.

Theres too much invested in benson to give up on him already, and a 3rd round pick was just spent on wolfe last year. add on top of that that AP proved he could be at least a capable back-up/time-splitter towards the end of the year, and theres just no need for a RB that early.

a revamping of the o-line is the most important thing the bears need to do. Fred Miller is a disaster now and needs to be tossed ASAFP. Both guard positions could stand to be upgraded as well. Tait and Kreutz might have some time left in them but if a cheap upgrade is out there, why not go for it as well.

With a stud OT taken in the draft and maybe some FA's brought in, the bears run game will easily sort itself out next year barring injuries.

Furthermore, i believe a change of offensive coordinator is order sooner or later here. a change in scheme/philosophy might be just what the doctor ordered cure the lack of run from this past season.

let me repeat myself again. there is no need for a high round RB on the bears roster right now. might they still do it? stranger things have happened, but there is NO NEED for it.

now...it could be a whole different story if a players such as owen schmidt fell a few rounds...hed be a powerful run blocker/short yardage back and also a special teams monster who would be well worth a late round investment IMO.

dabears10
01-05-2008, 11:57 PM
We could take a RB if it has the most value.

I believe if the suitable OL are not there we should not waste value by picking a Lineman as a reach.