PDA

View Full Version : 2011 Chicago Bears General Discussion


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26

bearsfan_51
11-05-2007, 02:37 PM
Thought I would start a broader thread so that we don't have to start new threads for minor things (Alphonso Boone for example).

To start it off:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3095776

We got bumped. Not suprisingly, but still dissapointing as I enjoy watching primetime games.

Jughead10
11-05-2007, 02:42 PM
I'm hoping they move Giants/Bears to Sunday night again. I'll be in Chicago for the game, and I'd rather it be the night game so I can watch all the others during the day.

Smokey Joe
11-09-2007, 07:56 PM
Could we cut Manning Jr. in the offseason or would we take a cap hit?

bearfan
11-09-2007, 10:53 PM
Could we cut Manning Jr. in the offseason or would we take a cap hit?


why would we cut him?

SFbear
11-10-2007, 02:12 AM
why would we cut him?

Contract is pretty big for a guy who can't be trusted to back up the top two corner spots. He is a great nickel but I think Trumain McBride could fill his spot at the price of a 7th rounder.

Smokey Joe
11-10-2007, 09:23 AM
exactly what SFbear said.

dabears10
11-10-2007, 10:11 AM
You don't think that we can trade him?

Smokey Joe
11-11-2007, 10:24 AM
apparently if Griese sucks today we are going back to Rex... :rolleyes:

regoob2
11-11-2007, 01:33 PM
apparently if Griese sucks today we are going back to Rex... :rolleyes:

Where did you hear that?

dabears10
11-11-2007, 02:54 PM
Jay Glazer said it on Fox Pre-game show.

Hurricane Ditka
11-11-2007, 04:28 PM
So Matt Ryan, Brian Brohm or Andre Woodson? Decisions, decisions, decisions. Or do we go with say Jake Long/Gosder Cherlius/ Sam Baker and follow up with a Qb in the second round?

sweetness34
11-11-2007, 04:30 PM
I'm not a big fan of Ryan personally. I think he's a good college QB but not a big fan of him as an NFL Prospect. I'd rather have Brohm or Woodson. Either that or say Henne in the 2nd Round.

bearsfan_51
11-11-2007, 04:31 PM
Assuming we draft in the top 15 I don't want Cherlius, the value just isn't there. My personal rankings.

1)Long
2)Woodson
3)Phillips
4)Baker
5)Ryan
6)Clady


And no on Brohm.

Hurricane Ditka
11-11-2007, 04:33 PM
We're picking in the top 15. Theres no two ways about it. At this point we'll be lucky not to pick in the top 10. Ron Turner has to go, no way no how should he be offensive coordinator next year.

Smokey Joe
11-11-2007, 04:40 PM
I think my dog can come up with a more imaginative play calling then Turner. The only reason why we might not lose this game is because the Raiders are just bad.

My big board:

1. Long
2. Woodson/Brohm/Ryan - whichever one would be the best fit for our hopeful new offense
3. Phillips
4. Baker

Hurricane Ditka
11-11-2007, 05:16 PM
1. Long
2. Ryan
3. Woodson
4. Baker
5. Philips
6. Cherilus
7. Kieth Rivers (of we lose Briggs)

bearsfan_51
11-11-2007, 05:22 PM
Random thought..but our safties have had a very nice game. Granted the Raiders pass attack sucks, but even from a blind eye point of view they've been in position all day.

Hurricane Ditka
11-11-2007, 05:25 PM
Manning's hit on Fargas was great. I really don't think he's that bad, but we'll see Arch for what he really is next week.

RaiderNation
11-11-2007, 05:26 PM
this is the worst game ive seen in a while

bearsfan_51
11-11-2007, 05:27 PM
this is the worst game ive seen in a while
As a Raiders fan I find that hard to believe.

RaiderNation
11-11-2007, 05:33 PM
As a Raiders fan I find that hard to believe.

atleast in the games last year there we scoring even if we werent

Hurricane Ditka
11-11-2007, 05:35 PM
Your god do we need some offensive lineman. I want to see Beekman in there as early as next week. Depending on value a first round QB is nice, but our need at left tackle is disgusting.

bearsfan_51
11-11-2007, 05:36 PM
Beekman isn't even active. Anthony Oakley is the 3rd guard. That should tell you something.

Smokey Joe
11-11-2007, 06:17 PM
Now Rex Grossman is the answer once again...:rolleyes:

Seriously though, any QB who can throw makes that TD pass.

Our OLine is so freaking bad still. The only reason why we won the game today was because it was the ******* Raiders. The D showed some heart for once at least.

And besides for one throw on offense, we had a piss poor day.

sweetness34
11-11-2007, 07:16 PM
Give credit where credit is due Smokey. You may not like Rex, but he did win us the game today. Or well threw the TD to put us up. I'm not saying he's a good QB (although I still like Rexy :() but he did play well today.

bearsfan_51
11-11-2007, 07:20 PM
Grossman played neither good nor bad. You really can't judge someone off of 14 throws.

If Griese is healthy he's our best option to win. If he's not, I'm fine with Grossman untill we are statistically out of the hunt. It's being VERY optomistic to assume that Orton is the answer.

Race for the Heisman
11-11-2007, 08:10 PM
Considering we have two third round picks and we could trade down in the first or second for another, what about Derek Anderson?

VoteLynnSwan
11-11-2007, 08:12 PM
the issue with trading for Derek Anderson, or any QB for that matter is that he will get KILLED behind our OL. Derek Anderson wouldn't stand a chance without Thomas, Steinbech and the rest of their guys.

bearsfan_51
11-11-2007, 08:18 PM
Exactly. Anderson is the same guy that got cut from Baltimore and couldn't beat out Charlie Frye in training camp. People need to stop pretending that he's anything more than a product of all the talent around him.

bearfan
11-11-2007, 08:29 PM
51, what have you got against Orton? What have you seen past his rookie season that has made you such an Orton hater?

bearsfan_51
11-11-2007, 08:38 PM
51, what have you got against Orton? What have you seen past his rookie season that has made you such an Orton hater?

Well besides the fact that he's a drunkard that can't complete a pass past 5 yards...nothing. Orton has absolutely no control over his passes, which is why about 50% of them float over the recievers heads into nowhere land. As stupid as Grossman is (and trust me I'm not a fan of him as an option either) he at least has strong upside and is a viable starting QB when he gets time in the pocket. Orton to me is a decent backup that was basically a system QB at Purdue and has only endeared himself because there's a strong enough of a fanbase in Chicago that constantly wants to bench the QB for change's sake.

Like I said, if we're out of the playoff hunt for good then start away, but of the three Orton gives us the least chance to win, and I think it's very telling that since he "won" those 10 games as a starter he's been no higher than 3rd on the depth chart.

Race for the Heisman
11-11-2007, 08:38 PM
I disagree to an extent. He's markably improved from what he displayed and pre-season and what he has done shows what he is capable of given appropriate surrounding talent, as you mentioned. I don't see any reason the Bears couldn't invest in an offense to the same extent the Browns have (Berrian/Draftee : Braylon Edwards :: Greg Olsen : Kellen Winslow II, and so forth), which could allow DA to have a similar level of production. The only reason I think you might call any such trade a waste (if Anderson could translate his play) would be if the organization was only going to provide enough offense for a custodian-type quarterback to give the team just enough offense to win. Given the new rule evolutions it seems to make more sense to win through offense first, but that's a seperate debate.

Edit: This is referencing Derek Anderson, not Orton as just mentioned.

bearfan
11-11-2007, 08:47 PM
Well besides the fact that he's a drunkard that can't complete a pass past 5 yards...nothing. Orton has absolutely no control over his passes, which is why about 50% of them float over the recievers heads into nowhere land. As stupid as Grossman is (and trust me I'm not a fan of him as an option either) he at least has strong upside and is a viable starting QB when he gets time in the pocket. Orton to me is a decent backup that was basically a system QB at Purdue and has only endeared himself because there's a strong enough of a fanbase in Chicago that constantly wants to bench the QB for change's sake.

Like I said, if we're out of the playoff hunt for good then start away, but of the three Orton gives us the least chance to win, and I think it's very telling that since he "won" those 10 games as a starter he's been no higher than 3rd on the depth chart.


I still dont get where you are getting this. Overlooking his rookie season, he hasnt had much PT besides preseason. If thats what you are referencing, I would have to disagree because he didnt look half bad. He also for a while had been challenging Griese's spot at #2. He didnt play badly his rookie season either. He did what he was asked to do, and besides that Cincy game, he managed the game very well. I think he is worth a 2nd look to see if he has improved since then (which all reports indicate that he has). Maybe he is a good QB, maybe he isnt, but I would like to find out before we go and draft a new one.

bearsfan_51
11-11-2007, 08:50 PM
There's really nothing to substantiate that Orton was challenging Griese. He never bumped him in any preseason games.

Don't you think it's telling that nobody outside of Bears fans and a few clueless people in the media ever bring his name up? He's a 3rd string QB, there's a reason for that.

bearfan
11-11-2007, 08:54 PM
There's really nothing to substantiate that Orton was challenging Griese. He never bumped him in any preseason games.

Don't you think it's telling that nobody outside of Bears fans and a few clueless people in the media ever bring his name up? He's a 3rd string QB, there's a reason for that.

That doesnt mean a thing, look at DA people didnt bring him up besides to talk about how he lost the spot, and was competing w/ BQ. Look at him now ;)

k0ng
11-11-2007, 09:02 PM
Was it just me or did Danieal Manning look like a serviceable safety? I think it was more of the Raiders having such a horrible offense though. They made our whole D look good.

Rex looked good to. His arm is so much stronger than Griese's. No way Griese looks to his left and just chucks the ball down field to Berrian like that. His pocket awareness and mobility also seemed a lot better. He was moving around like he did before his injury problems. This was all against a bad and injury depleted Raiders team though. Although, I hope he performs well the rest of the year.

Benson...dunno. The o-line looked pretty bad except for a few plays. Benson did pick up a couple of crucial first downs. I think we should keep him, but he would be better suited as a 1a type of back. The Raiders are really bad against the run and he was only able to muster 80 yards on 30 carries. We need to draft a back that compliments Benson and hopefully a revamped o-line. Wolfe got on the field and almost fumbled the ball twice on the same play. Don't think he is the answer.

Urlacher also worries me. I sure hope they figure out what is going on and fix it. Did you guys see that clip of him and Culpepper before the game?

awfullyquiet
11-11-2007, 09:46 PM
Was it just me or did Danieal Manning look like a serviceable safety? I think it was more of the Raiders having such a horrible offense though. They made our whole D look good.

Rex looked good to. His arm is so much stronger than Griese's. No way Griese looks to his left and just chucks the ball down field to Berrian like that. His pocket awareness and mobility also seemed a lot better. He was moving around like he did before his injury problems. This was all against a bad and injury depleted Raiders team though. Although, I hope he performs well the rest of the year.


D. Manning looked like he was actually playing the game... I mean, he actually hit that WR mid in the 4th with McBride and popped the ball out... Yes i got up and said, wtf, the kid can hit sort of!

Rex's arm is light years better than griese's. He looked managable from 15 passes, yes he got sacked twice, once was a coverage sack, the other was an overload sack where tait couldn't pick up the blitz. but, on that 59 yarder, four seconds, four seconds, found the open reciever, and made the throw. Credit Berrian for actually looking like a reciever too and showing some elusiveness.

Credit the raiders though for having a secondary that will dominate for years to come. now if they could only get warren sapp to dominate.

Hurricane Ditka
11-12-2007, 02:13 AM
Grossman's throw to Berrian still wasn't an improvement in technique or mechanics, he still threw off his back foot, and basically stared him down. Berrian got the better of the corner, and we got lucky. Every game from here on out is the last.

bearfan
11-12-2007, 06:20 AM
Grossman's throw to Berrian still wasn't an improvement in technique or mechanics, he still threw off his back foot, and basically stared him down. Berrian got the better of the corner, and we got lucky. Every game from here on out is the last.


Very good point, I thought that Rex threw off his back foot on that, but I wasnt 100%.

k0ng
11-12-2007, 09:08 AM
Grossman's throw to Berrian still wasn't an improvement in technique or mechanics, he still threw off his back foot, and basically stared him down. Berrian got the better of the corner, and we got lucky. Every game from here on out is the last.

I'm pretty sure he looked to the other side of the field first, then threw it to Berrian. I didn't notice him throwing off his back foot though. Was still a nice throw.

bearsfan_51
11-12-2007, 09:15 AM
Yeah he definately didn't stare him down.

Smokey Joe
11-12-2007, 03:25 PM
he didn't stare down Berrian, but it was quite obvious he was the intended receiver the whole time. Rexy was going deep if Berrian was open or not.

Smokey Joe
11-12-2007, 04:13 PM
http://kissmesuzy.blogspot.com/2007/11/throwgasm.html

bearsfan_51
11-12-2007, 04:52 PM
I was looking on youtube for a replay of the Grossman throw and I found a fan video made by Sweetness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMXBv2_ZN_c

It's touching sweetness. Really.

Hurricane Ditka
11-12-2007, 05:01 PM
The thing about Rex Grossman is that's he's not good. The worst thing that could happen to this team is for them to restore their faith in them.

Smokey Joe
11-12-2007, 05:10 PM
I was looking on youtube for a replay of the Grossman throw and I found a fan video made by Sweetness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMXBv2_ZN_c

It's touching sweetness. Really.

He made another video as well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3PrOu-YBv0

or is this one sweetness?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlIqEL5m9_s

sweetness34
11-14-2007, 03:08 PM
He's baaaaccccckkkkkk!!! :D

Haha, this could get really, really interesting. I'm actually scared to see him play on Sunday, isn't that sad? Rex, I love ya buddy but you better step it up on Sunday.

Smokey Joe
11-14-2007, 05:08 PM
you know why you are scared to see him play? Because you're in love with him but you know he sucks.

sweetness34
11-14-2007, 05:35 PM
you know why you are scared to see him play? Because you're in love with him but you know he sucks.

Yup....:D

Oh and Smokey, Northwestern sucks!

Smokey Joe
11-14-2007, 05:44 PM
Yup....:D

Oh and Smokey, Northwestern sucks!
You won't be saying that when Northwestern pulls off a huge upset and slaughters the Illini.

Smokey Joe
11-14-2007, 05:45 PM
hey sweets, lets make a sig bet on the game...

sweetness34
11-14-2007, 08:27 PM
Um nope. Never bet on my teams....

Smokey Joe
11-14-2007, 09:28 PM
Um nope. Never bet on my teams....
cause you know the Cats are gonna crush the Illini...

dabears10
11-18-2007, 06:33 PM
Fred Miller REALLY showed he is not near the player he used to be. How bad was he today? Gave up 3 sacks to Patrick Kerney? Not to mention what 2 or 3 false starts. Please JA draft a tackle.

Smokey Joe
11-18-2007, 06:43 PM
3 false starts and 3 sacks given up. He needs to be fined for being pure garbage.

bearsfan_51
11-18-2007, 06:48 PM
I wouldn't be against starting St.Clair for the rest of the season. Maybe Miller can magically come down with a season-ending injury like R.Brown did.

Then again, the Rams claimed Mark Levoir off of our practice squad, so we wouldn't have anyone else to bring up.

sweetness34
11-18-2007, 07:49 PM
cause you know the Cats are gonna crush the Illini...

You were saying?

BUSTKUNTLAWL
11-18-2007, 07:55 PM
I've been calling for St Clair to get the start over Miller since week 2. Miller is absolutely toast.

And if you haven't noticed Tait looks done too.

Smokey Joe
11-18-2007, 09:13 PM
Tait just needs to be moved to RT.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 02:37 PM
Ricky Manning is going to start at CB today. That only took 10 weeks.

sweetness34
11-25-2007, 04:48 PM
We ******* suck ass;

OL sucks, WR's suck, DL sucks, LB's suck (besides Briggs), secondary sucks, Maynard sucks, ST suck (outside of Gould and Hester).

We suck!!!!

sweetness34
11-25-2007, 04:48 PM
Oh yea, and we have an inconsistent QB to top it off! ******* awesome!

Hurricane Ditka
11-25-2007, 04:52 PM
As soon as Benson even remotely produces he gets hurt on the ****** field we've been putting out there for years. We suck. Bad. We need new faces at QB, RB, OT, OG, WR (Cut Moose, find a way to keep Berrian), LB, and SS. Rebuilding here we come.

Smokey Joe
11-25-2007, 04:52 PM
Benson likely done for the season. Looked like a broken ankle to me.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 05:29 PM
The defense has actually played well except for a few missed tackles. The more I watch the Bears the more I want to go heavy offense in the draft. The defense doesn't stand a chance because we constantly turn the ball over and can't sustain any drives. A strong safety is needed, that's about it. Some competition for Manning would be nice too.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 05:31 PM
Though that ******* kick out pitch is killing us.

I really don't like our schemes this year, though I blame that more on our inability to tackle and stay in position than Babich.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 06:27 PM
Bears benched Fred Miller. Finally.

Moses
11-25-2007, 06:31 PM
How's Urlacher been playing this year? I've barely noticed him in the handful of Bears games I've watched.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 06:32 PM
Wow...the difference with Fred Miller out of the lineup is absurd. Granted it's more or less a prevent defense but still.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 06:33 PM
How's Urlacher been playing this year? I've barely noticed him in the handful of Bears games I've watched.
That should pretty much answer your question. He hasn't been bad, but his physical decline, be it injuries or just natural regression, is very noticeable.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 06:35 PM
Can we please stop acting like Berrian isn't the best offensive player we have? It's not even close. Give the dude his money.

Moses
11-25-2007, 06:36 PM
That should pretty much answer your question. He hasn't been bad, but his physical decline, be it injuries or just natural regression, is very noticeable.

What's the story with Briggs? Is he still angry and going to leave after this year?

He really impressed me against the Packers. Has to be one of the best run defending linebackers in the league, he's a stone wall.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 06:39 PM
What's the story with Briggs? Is he still angry and going to leave after this year?

He really impressed me against the Packers. Has to be one of the best run defending linebackers in the league, he's a stone wall.
Briggs will be back. They'll find a way. He said he wants to be back.

Moses
11-25-2007, 06:40 PM
Briggs will be back. They'll find a way. He said he wants to be back.

If not, he'd look pretty good beside Barnett and Hawk. :D

I thought he really hated the Bears management though? Even if they throw a lot of money at him, other teams will too so why would he stay in Chicago when he has an issue with management?

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 06:44 PM
If not, he'd look pretty good beside Barnett and Hawk. :D

I thought he really hated the Bears management though? Even if they throw a lot of money at him, other teams will too so why would he stay in Chicago when he has an issue with management?
He doesn't. It's just rhetoric. He hoped that by making a big **** they would trade him (ala every other whiney player in the NFL). Then he threatened to sit the year out, and they didn't bite on that either.

It's not a total lock, but Briggs wants to come back, and the Bears want him back, so I'll see it happening. How much he likes the GM is irrelivent, he likes his teamates, the city, and his coach. That's all that matters.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 06:46 PM
Man....St.Clair is night and day.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 06:50 PM
I cannot believe we won that game.

Smokey Joe
11-25-2007, 06:55 PM
Benching Miller is what won us the game... that and Devin Hester.

Smokey Joe
11-25-2007, 07:00 PM
Oh yeah, all Bear fans owe Sauerbrun a big thank you for giving us pretty much 3 TD's today.

bearfan
11-25-2007, 07:00 PM
Ok, I missed the game due to work. Summary? Pro's, cons?

I see that Devin had 2.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 07:14 PM
Ok, I missed the game due to work. Summary? Pro's, cons?

I see that Devin had 2.
We played like poop.

Fred Miller is the worst lineman ever.

Grossman is only a good QB if he has 10 seconds to hop around in the pocket (nothing new).

Devin Hester is the only reason I'm not embaressed to be a fan of this team.


And Benson is probably done for the year, since having two good games in a row would have just been too much.

Namy
11-25-2007, 07:15 PM
I hate our team.

Thank you for beating us like this.

oh, and..
**** YOU SAUERBRUN

bearfan
11-25-2007, 07:23 PM
We played like poop.

Fred Miller is the worst lineman ever.

Grossman is only a good QB if he has 10 seconds to hop around in the pocket (nothing new).

Devin Hester is the only reason I'm not embaressed to be a fan of this team.


And Benson is probably done for the year, since having two good games in a row would have just been too much.

Thanks for being honest, I was afraid that I would get a "That was the most amazing game ever". I was going to ask what happened to Benson, I saw the stat tracker in the 1st 2 Qs, and saw he was averaging 5.9ypc. What happened that he didnt get the ball anymore?

VoteLynnSwan
11-25-2007, 07:37 PM
he had an ankle injury in the 2nd quarter and didn't return.

pellepelle_10
11-25-2007, 08:13 PM
I think you can pretty much nail it on the head that Fred Miller is garbage and we need a new Tackle to replace his worthless ass. We should be trying to do everything possible to upgrade the quarterback position and Adam Archuleta game by game continues to show us why we are in dire need of safeties.

On a bright note. Ogunleye has been showing his worth and Devin Hester continues to show why he's the leagues most electric player.

Smokey Joe
11-25-2007, 10:07 PM
Through 11 games so far for Ogunleye, 40 tackles, 9 SACKS! I think he's having a decent season.

DaBears9654
11-25-2007, 10:42 PM
**** YOU SAUERBRUN
I think we Bears fans have been saying that practically since he left.

RockJock07
11-25-2007, 11:45 PM
I hate our team.

Thank you for beating us like this.

oh, and..
**** YOU SAUERBRUN

Sauerbrun is a d-bag but where was the coaching to say "Hey Hester is real good, let's not kick it to him" Denver handed that game to the Bears. Shanahan is dumb

Next week should be interesting for the bears with Eli Manning coming in.

MidwayMonster31
11-26-2007, 12:41 AM
Sauerbrun is a d-bag but where was the coaching to say "Hey Hester is real good, let's not kick it to him" Denver handed that game to the Bears. Shanahan is dumb

Next week should be interesting for the bears with Eli Manning coming in.I think it is a forgone conclusion that Hester will not see any kicks to him in the game next week. All they have to do is rattle Manning early. Unfortunately, I also expect to see Umenyiora and Strahan abuse Grossman throughout the game. If the offensive line is as bad as it was today, the Bears don't have a chance.

Cunningham
11-26-2007, 12:45 AM
well congrats on the win. hester killed us the whole game up until the point when your offense finally showed up. embarrassing game all around for both sides though.

also why is adam archuleta still starting for you guys, i thought he got benched?

RockJock07
11-26-2007, 12:57 AM
well congrats on the win. hester killed us the whole game up until the point when your offense finally showed up. embarrassing game all around for both sides though.

also why is adam archuleta still starting for you guys, i thought he got benched?

Archuleta has been bad most of the season. He miss a key takle today, I think Lovie and Angelo were looking for old magic when they traded for him.

I'm not a fan of the Bears, but i'm just wondering but with this being a GREAT draft for QB's, who do you guys want? Being from the burbs, I hear alot about McNabb, but I think that McNabb is overrated and can't stay on the field.

bearfan
11-26-2007, 06:23 AM
Archuleta has been bad most of the season. He miss a key takle today, I think Lovie and Angelo were looking for old magic when they traded for him.

I'm not a fan of the Bears, but i'm just wondering but with this being a GREAT draft for QB's, who do you guys want? Being from the burbs, I hear alot about McNabb, but I think that McNabb is overrated and can't stay on the field.

I will take Big Eric "I throw 7tds to Woodsons 6tds" Ainge in the 2nd round ;)

Smokey Joe
11-26-2007, 03:42 PM
Benson done for the year...

Hurricane Ditka
11-26-2007, 04:07 PM
Well Cedric's done for the year, and probably done with the Bears. Personally I think if Adian Peterson was as good as some people think he is he wouldn't have sat behind the likes of Anthony Thomas, Brock Forsey, Thomas Jones, Cedric Benson and warrant the drafting of Garrett Wolfe but we'll see. If he doesn't preform I think RB jumps to into a tie with safety for third on our needs lists.

Right now for me my ideal first 3 rounds would look like this

1. Jeff Otah- It looks like Otah's gonna be climbing up draft boards, and he'll be able to play both sides at tackle, and we could slide him inside at guard if Tait and St Clair can right the ship at the tackle spots. The Ideal situation would slide Tait to right, start Otah on the left side. Otah would help the running game, giving us the mauler we don't have right now.
2. Strike a deal similar to the San Deigo deal last year, I'd settle for a 2nd, third, and fifth.
Trade Alex Brown and the newly acquired third for another second.
2a. DJ Hall. We need a wide receiver other than Bernard Berrian. Moose shouldn't be on the team next year, and theres a good chance Davis will be gone as well. Leaving us with major unknowns in Bradley and Hester. Hall will bring stability to the position and it's a plus if Bradley and Hester can contribute more on offense.
2b. Erik Aigne. Has the potential to grow into our franchise quarterback, but won't have the pressure a first round pick would. Assuming either Grossman, Griese or Orton are still on the team, we can use a similar approach to Kanasas City and Brodie Croyle and ease Aigne in.
3a. Jamar Adams. Another warm body in the picture at safety.
3b. Peyton Hillis. An upgrade over McKie at the position, and a big enough athlete to be a factor in the run and pass game.

bearsfan_51
11-26-2007, 04:13 PM
Well Cedric's done for the year, and probably done with the Bears. Personally I think if Adian Peterson was as good as some people think he is he wouldn't have sat behind the likes of Anthony Thomas, Brock Forsey, Thomas Jones, Cedric Benson and warrant the drafting of Garrett Wolfe but we'll see. If he doesn't preform I think RB jumps to into a tie with safety for third on our needs lists.

Right now for me my ideal first 3 rounds would look like this

1. Jeff Otah- It looks like Otah's gonna be climbing up draft boards, and he'll be able to play both sides at tackle, and we could slide him inside at guard if Tait and St Clair can right the ship at the tackle spots. The Ideal situation would slide Tait to right, start Otah on the left side. Otah would help the running game, giving us the mauler we don't have right now.
2. Strike a deal similar to the San Deigo deal last year, I'd settle for a 2nd, third, and fifth.
Trade Alex Brown and the newly acquired third for another second.
2a. DJ Hall. We need a wide receiver other than Bernard Berrian. Moose shouldn't be on the team next year, and theres a good chance Davis will be gone as well. Leaving us with major unknowns in Bradley and Hester. Hall will bring stability to the position and it's a plus if Bradley and Hester can contribute more on offense.
2b. Erik Aigne. Has the potential to grow into our franchise quarterback, but won't have the pressure a first round pick would. Assuming either Grossman, Griese or Orton are still on the team, we can use a similar approach to Kanasas City and Brodie Croyle and ease Aigne in.
3a. Jamar Adams. Another warm body in the picture at safety.
3b. Peyton Hillis. An upgrade over McKie at the position, and a big enough athlete to be a factor in the run and pass game.
A few thoughts.

- I'm not sure our second round pick will be low enough to garner the return you are expecting. The Bears would currently pick 17th if the draft were held today, unless you expect us to lose all of our remaining games and finish 5-11 I'm not sure we'll get there. That said, the SOS order will be reversed in the 2nd, so that will bump it up a bit.

- Hall would be unproven as well. I actually think Moose will be back. His salary has largely been paid (I think he's on the hook for about 2 million next year) so even if he's just a slow-yet-reliable option I think he's worth one more year. That said, I like the pick of Hall, as Bradley is looking more and more like a bust.

-Not really a fan of drafting a fullback in the 3rd round. It's a dying position frankly, though if we went that route Hills or Caulcrick from Michigan State would be good options.

-I think Benson will be back. We'd gain nothing monetary-wise by cutting him, and I think he'll get another year to try and establish his worth to the team.

Hurricane Ditka
11-26-2007, 04:51 PM
Regarding fullback being a dieing position, guys like Vickers and Leonard have given it a little life, (both were first day picks if I recall) and I think a guy like Hillis of Jacobs Hester is versatile enough to make a difference at the pro level.

Race for the Heisman
11-26-2007, 04:57 PM
With the presence of a couple of more-athletic fullbacks like Peyton Hillis, Jacob Hester, Jehuu Caulcrick (perhaps), and Owen Schmitt, I definitely wouldn't spend a third on one (hope one falls and spend a fifth on him, perhaps), especially with all the needs we have. Offensive line, quarterback, wide receiver, offensive line, safety, offensive line, the list goes on. Combine that with perhaps lingering defensive tackle pangs (maybe a guy who falls and the value is just too good to pass up), possibly linebacker (Briggs' gap not being filled or planning for a debilitated Urlacher) and fullback, while I love the fullbacks in this class, must fall in the line with the rest of our priorities. I think the best one would be Hillis because of his hands, followed by Hester, then maybe Schmitt, but those guys are the ones who will come off the boards first.

DaBears9654
11-26-2007, 05:26 PM
Regarding fullback being a dieing position, guys like Vickers and Leonard have given it a little life, (both were first day picks if I recall) and I think a guy like Hillis of Jacobs Hester is versatile enough to make a difference at the pro level.
Actually, I agree with Mike Mayock that Brian Leonard is better off as a tailback. In my case it's mainly b/c of his size. He's only 226 lbs. for crying out loud!

Smokey Joe
11-26-2007, 07:33 PM
Hester isn't a fullback. He is a bruiser RB who can line up at FB once in a while, very similar to Leonard except less athletic.

If we want a FB, go for maybe Owen Schmitt in the 5th, which he might be available in. He is a good hard runner, has good hands, and is a very good blocker. Or, Peyton Hillis if he is there for us in the 4th. 3rd round is too high to spend on a FB, IMO, when you have as many needs as we do.

Oh yeah, Benson will be back. But I think it would be a super idea to sign Chris Brown in the offseason. It seemed like we might sign him last offseason but that didn't happen. Brown would be a good compliment to Benson and doesn't seem like he will be able to carry the load with his up-right running style. Either him or Julius Jones, which I don't if it would work or not... Plus, I think Adrian Peterson is best served to be the no. 3 back who gets some reps but is mainly a special teams ace.

Smokey Joe
11-26-2007, 07:38 PM
A few thoughts.

- I'm not sure our second round pick will be low enough to garner the return you are expecting. The Bears would currently pick 17th if the draft were held today, unless you expect us to lose all of our remaining games and finish 5-11 I'm not sure we'll get there. That said, the SOS order will be reversed in the 2nd, so that will bump it up a bit.

- Hall would be unproven as well. I actually think Moose will be back. His salary has largely been paid (I think he's on the hook for about 2 million next year) so even if he's just a slow-yet-reliable option I think he's worth one more year. That said, I like the pick of Hall, as Bradley is looking more and more like a bust.

-Not really a fan of drafting a fullback in the 3rd round. It's a dying position frankly, though if we went that route Hills or Caulcrick from Michigan State would be good options.

-I think Benson will be back. We'd gain nothing monetary-wise by cutting him, and I think he'll get another year to try and establish his worth to the team.

can Caulcrick block though? I know he can run....

bearsfan_51
11-26-2007, 08:23 PM
can Caulcrick block though? I know he can run....
If we want a fullback for blocking McKie is fine. Drafting someone to block in the 3rd round when we have an ungodly amount of needs would border on ********.

Hurricane Ditka
11-26-2007, 08:35 PM
You could argue that Jerry Angelo borders on those censor * means.

bearsfan_51
11-26-2007, 08:36 PM
You could argue that Jerry Angelo borders on those censor * means.

You could but you'd be wrong. Jerry Angelo took a franchise that was a pile of trash for 10 years before he got there and turned it into a Superbowl team.

Hurricane Ditka
11-26-2007, 08:43 PM
He also does alot of things that make you go what the *********?

BUSTKUNTLAWL
11-27-2007, 12:55 AM
Jerry Angelo gets way too much credit for our recent success & not enough blame for this year's disaster.

Don't get me wrong though - he is a very good GM and we could be a lot worse off.

Number 10
11-27-2007, 09:34 AM
So Benson is done...

Not sure that is such a gorrible thing for you guys, especially against the Giants. I think Peterson and Wolfe match up better against the Giants run D anyway.

This is going to be a very interesting game to watch....2 roller coaster D's that will have to deal with a good pass rush.

dabears10
11-27-2007, 11:36 AM
Is Losman a FA this year? I wouldn't mind trying him for a 2 -3 year contract over Grossman.

bearsfan_51
11-27-2007, 03:02 PM
I don't believe Losman is a FA.


Apparently Vasher will be back this week. That would be a huge boost considering the Giants would otherwise try to match the very tall Plaxico Burress against the very short Manning and McBride. Not to mention that it would allow us to play a little more man and keep Archuleta in the box where he belongs.

awfullyquiet
11-27-2007, 03:39 PM
They'll find a way.
The only way briggs will leave is if someone offers him tons, and i mean tons of money. I don't see anyone offering him more than he asked for this year.

I agree. It looks like rebuilding sort of next year... Hopefully some of our rookies this year and last year will kick it up...

*cough, danieal manning, cough cough*

Smokey Joe
11-27-2007, 07:12 PM
so looking back at the 07 draft... We basically traded Ugoh, who is turning into a top left tackle in the league, for Dan Bazuin, Michael Okwo, Michael Payne (who are all on IR), and a 3rd round pick... yeah, at the time it seemed like a pretty good move to get 3 extra picks, but it looks pretty stupid now.

bearsfan_51
11-27-2007, 07:23 PM
so looking back at the 07 draft... We basically traded Ugoh, who is turning into a top left tackle in the league, for Dan Bazuin, Michael Okwo, Michael Payne (who are all on IR), and a 3rd round pick... yeah, at the time it seemed like a pretty good move to get 3 extra picks, but it looks pretty stupid now.
Way too early to judge. I'm not all that convinced that Ugoh is that great either, or just the product of an incredible system. Indy does a tremendous job of neutralizing blitzes by running draws and screens and keeping teams on their heels.

I remember at the time wanting Sidney Rice, who is looking very good right now.

bearfan
11-27-2007, 09:34 PM
Way too early to judge. I'm not all that convinced that Ugoh is that great either, or just the product of an incredible system. Indy does a tremendous job of neutralizing blitzes by running draws and screens and keeping teams on their heels.

I remember at the time wanting Sidney Rice, who is looking very good right now.

I remember wanting D-Jarrett because you know...he can catch

bearsfan_51
11-27-2007, 10:26 PM
I remember wanting D-Jarrett because you know...he can catch

Jarrett's a bum. Carolina has no depth at receiver and he still can't make the gameday roster.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
11-27-2007, 10:38 PM
Jarrett's a bum. Carolina has no depth at receiver and he still can't make the gameday roster.

Well, let's just say I was WAY off with him.. I thought he was going to be good.

Thank god.

VoteLynnSwan
11-28-2007, 12:57 AM
yea... i really thought Jarrett would be able to be a productive player... but he really does have Mike Williams syndrome.

bearfan
11-28-2007, 06:20 AM
yea... i really thought Jarrett would be able to be a productive player... but he really does have Mike Williams syndrome.

I have not seen him play, but look at their Qbs. Your really cant say that he wont be productive after 12games.

bearsfan_51
11-28-2007, 09:46 AM
I have not seen him play, but look at their Qbs. Your really cant say that he wont be productive after 12games.
He won't be productive. Huh? Apparently you can say that.

BucSappy
11-28-2007, 10:10 AM
so looking back at the 07 draft... We basically traded Ugoh, who is turning into a top left tackle in the league, for Dan Bazuin, Michael Okwo, Michael Payne (who are all on IR), and a 3rd round pick... yeah, at the time it seemed like a pretty good move to get 3 extra picks, but it looks pretty stupid now.

New Orleans traded their entire draft to get Ricky Williams in the draft to the Redskins. Do you remember any players the Redskins drafted? No and I don't believe any are still with the team.

Did the Redskins get the better end of the deal? Absolutely, but I'm not judging it on the hindsight in the players chosen.

You all made the smart trade and you got the better end of the deal. I was never a fan of the Bears draft except for Greg Olsen. I mean Garrett Wolfe in the 3rd? Why? I liked the pick of Josh Beekman but other than that...bleh.

No offense. I just thought you all could have done better.

regoob2
11-28-2007, 05:38 PM
They must of felt that we needed the depth and looking at it now we could use the help at DL and in the secondary to bad they got hurt though.

regoob2
11-28-2007, 09:09 PM
On ChicagoBears.com the chalk talk guy said that Safety is our biggest need! I agree that it is a big need but I think that upgrading the O-line is our biggest. If Kenny Phillips is there in the first I don't know if I could take him over a potential starting Tackle.

bearfan
11-28-2007, 09:14 PM
On ChicagoBears.com the chalk talk guy said that Safety is our biggest need! I agree that it is a big need but I think that upgrading the O-line is our biggest. If Kenny Phillips is there in the first I don't know if I could take him over a potential starting Tackle.

I could see it, there are quite a few OL prospects this year from what I read. Kenny Philips will be a good NFL saftey, so I would take a shot at him if an OL wasnt worth the pick in that spot of the draft

bearsfan_51
11-29-2007, 06:25 PM
I was just suprised he took a stand on anything. Mayer is such a hack sucking at the tit of power. His "articles" are closer to press releases than any legitimate journalism.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
11-29-2007, 06:41 PM
Meyer always gets harassed at training camp for being a phony.

Smokey Joe
11-29-2007, 07:00 PM
Lets say we pick at no. 9 or 10...

1.) Kenny Phillips, S
With him and D. Manning, we have a fine young safety duo. Phillips would likely play strong.

2.) Chris Williams, OT
Falls this fair because this is a very a good tackle class. Is similar to Marcus McNeil, IMO. Is a great run blocker and will allow us to move Tait back over to RT.

3a) Joe Flacco, QB
Good developmental QB. As for the QB situation goes, either bring back Grossman on a cheap 1 year contract and cut/trade Griese, or just let Grossman go. Let Kyle Orton and Griese/Grossman compete for QB while Flacco develops.

3b) Heath Benedict, OL
Can play both G or T. Could compete for a starting job at G right away.

-Trade Alex Brown for a late third
3c) Peyton Hillis, FB/H-Back
At first I didn't like this idea by HD, but now love the idea. He would be a great weapon out of the backfield. Has great hands and knows how to get open, can run with the ball, and is a very good blocker as well.

bearsfan_51
11-29-2007, 07:04 PM
We're not going to pick 9 or 10. We have one of the hardest SOS in the league. Even if we finish 1-4 we'll be picking at least 11th or 12th.

Picks are fine. Still not a fan of the Hills pick.

VoteLynnSwan
11-30-2007, 01:11 AM
i don't understand the point of taking a FB that early when we obviously need help at runningback.

toonsterwu
11-30-2007, 09:33 AM
Alright, here's a question. What happens if the top 3 QB's are off AND 4 OT's are off (Otah, Clady, Long, Williams)? I just did the reverse order of what was on NFL.com and thus we were 17th. What then? I'm at a loss. I think Cherilus has played himself out of the mid-first. Same goes with Baker. I don't think Loadholt/Oher can work themselves that high, but I'd take one of them there instead of Gosder or Sam.

VoteLynnSwan
11-30-2007, 01:24 PM
well i think it would then depend if Kenny Phillips is still on the board... which i doubt he'd be. at that point, you have to look at trading back in the mid 20 range i guess... I just don't think i see all four of those guys going that early, especially in a tackle heavy draft.

a few other guys i would consider would be one of the runningbacks... (although not the biggest need i know, they still have to be considered) Stewart, Mendenhall, etc... another guy i'd look at would be Reggie Smith at safety, although he'd be better suited as a FS.

Smokey Joe
11-30-2007, 06:48 PM
I like Chris Williams, but I have a very hard time seeing him, let alone 4 tackles going in the top 15. IMO, Williams is in the last first/early second range, Otah is in that top 20 range, Clady is in the top 10-15 range and Long is top 5. Baker and Cherilus are both in the late first early second range as well, IMO.

Plus, I think we will see at least on of the big 3 QB's fall into the 20's. I can see both the Vikings and Ravens both passing on QB's with their picks.

VoteLynnSwan
12-02-2007, 03:26 PM
John St. Clair is amazing... maybe a bit early, but he really is playing great, he just owned Strahan on that drive.

awfullyquiet
12-02-2007, 03:29 PM
John St. Clair is amazing... maybe a bit early, but he really is playing great, he just owned Strahan on that drive.

Yeah he did... plus the fact that he can actually catch.

i'm just utterly amazed that we scored so fast, it was very odd, no huddle. fast paced, watched peterson run.

bearfan
12-02-2007, 04:48 PM
Rex is playing surprisingly well today. I think if he keeps it up we could give him a 1yr ext, and move Qb back to 2nd or 3rd round in the draft.

Adrian Peterson is looking pretty decent too.

VoteLynnSwan
12-02-2007, 04:53 PM
if we can get consistent OL play, we don't have any need for another RB, that's what it comes down to.

bearsfan_51
12-02-2007, 04:56 PM
Adrian Peterson is exactly what I expected him to be, a good 3rd down runningback. He can't run the ball effectively and consistantly, and he's showing that here. It's completely changed the offense, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it makes sense why they want a runner like Benson, albeit maybe not Benson.

Smokey Joe
12-02-2007, 04:58 PM
Rex is still scared to take a hit... anyone else see him flinch like a ***** on the first offensive play of the game. Where I come from, thats two hits for flinching... but he made up for it with that nice touch pass.

Also, he keeps dropping back in the pocket and taking sacks that shouldn't be sacks. He needs to freaking step up.

He is playing well, but he still hasn't shown me anything where he is the answer at QB. Maybe a 1 year extension cause there is nothing else.

bearfan
12-02-2007, 06:42 PM
I can not believe that we lost that game. How did the offense go from playing good to right where it was at the beginning of the season.

Also, I wanted to see some Peterson/Wolfe instead of just AP all day.

Smokey Joe
12-02-2007, 06:45 PM
I think we will just focus on the draft in the offseason. Bring back Grossman (1 year deal), sign Mike Brown to an incentive laden deal, resign Berrian, Briggs, and extend Harris, and then focus on getting more mid round draft picks. I see us picking in the 15-19 range, so I could see us using our 1st and trading down for a late first, late second, and perhaps another mid round pick. Alex Brown will likely be traded for a 3rd as well.

Some names we might not see back next year... Turner (he needs to be fired), Alex Brown, Fred Miller, Ruben Brown, Adam Archuletta, maybe Moose, perhaps one of Garza or Metcalf, Griese, and perhaps a few others.

Smokey Joe
12-02-2007, 06:45 PM
I can not believe that we lost that game. How did the offense go from playing good to right where it was at the beginning of the season.

Also, I wanted to see some Peterson/Wolfe instead of just AP all day.
Haven't you already figured this out? If something works, Ron Turner will just discard it and go back to the stuff that doesn't work.

regoob2
12-02-2007, 06:46 PM
Why aren't we using Greg Olsen more all I see this guy do is block and thats what he sucks at.

Smokey Joe
12-02-2007, 06:49 PM
Why aren't we using Greg Olsen more all I see this guy do is block and thats what he sucks at.
once again, Ron Turner hates Chicago. He's pissed that Zook is probably taking Illinois to the Rose Bowl (or at the very least Capitol One Bowl, which is a pretty good one) and all he could do there is suck. So he is taking out his anger on us by calling some of the stupidest **** I have ever seen.

regoob2
12-02-2007, 06:54 PM
I think we need to go Tackle, safety in the draft. If kenny Phillips is there in the first I think he would greatly improve our D. I think we could still get a solid Tackle in round 2 even if we need to trade up (3rd rounder or Alex Brown) to do it. Those positions aren't wants for me anymore there needs.

Smokey Joe
12-02-2007, 06:58 PM
our defense was like night and day with Archuletta out. I think we all thought safety was a much bigger need then it actually was because of how ****** Archuletta actually is. I think someone like Jamar Adams in the 3rd is the best option for us, while cutting Archuletta and bringing back Brown on an incentive laden deal.

Smokey Joe
12-02-2007, 07:00 PM
also, if both Duke and Loadholt declare for the draft and we pick in the 15-17 range like I think we will, I would love to see a trade down into the 25-30 range, get Duke Robinson, and then with our second round pick, I could see Loadholt falling into the mid 2nd range, and get Loadholt, we would have a monster left side of the offensive line for years to come.

k0ng
12-02-2007, 07:06 PM
If we hadn't of lost this game, we would have lost eventually. Our offensive line still can't pick up a blitz or even block for that matter. Where the **** was Garrett Wolfe? We don't need 186 lb guys tackling people on special teams. Something is up there.

Our defense still can't stop the run. It's going to be ugly when we go up to Minny in a few weeks. Also, Is it me or do we have 3 defensive plays? Everyone knows Eli is shaken and rattled and what do we do? We rush 4 and let him sit back there and look for an open receiver. With a guy like that, you need to blitz the crap out of him and put him on his ass. Look what happened when Anthony Adams and Alex Brown got in his face.

LT, RB, SS, OG, DT,and WR are the positions that need to be upgraded. Everyone else just needs to get healthy and resigned.

sweetness34
12-02-2007, 08:59 PM
I think this game again shows that QB is the least of our concerns on offense right now. Is Rex going to be our future QB? Probably not, but he's pulling his weight right now. The OL, WR's, and RB's are not. Neither is the defense.

Bearsfan123
12-03-2007, 12:06 AM
i love how everyone is quick to jump on APs back but when Benson was in there it was "The line sucks, its their fault he doesnt run well! And he doesnt have any running room!" Ap did crap that Benson cant do, like catch the ball and pick up the blitz.

I agree with your list tho Kong (for the most part)- OL, S, and WR. Runningback CANT be upgraded. Benson is on the books for at least another year, AP wont be cut because he is a valuable backup as well as STer, and Garret Wolfe was our third rd pick. Plus we dont have alot of cap space. I think if we solidify our O-line and we get backs that can pickup the blitz we will be a good team again. Id actually like to pattern ourselves after Jacksonville offensively.

Number 10
12-03-2007, 12:12 AM
It's obvious to me your offensive line needs to be re-tooled before anything. I still think Grossman could be your long term answer, but drafting a round 2-5QB should also be in the master plan.

pellepelle_10
12-03-2007, 01:20 AM
It's obvious to me your offensive line needs to be re-tooled before anything. I still think Grossman could be your long term answer, but drafting a round 2-5QB should also be in the master plan.

I think you hit the nail on the head. It spoke volumes in the Giants game when Olin Kruetz all but ripped Terrance Metcalf a new-ahole for his mishaps. The O-Line clearly needs an upgrade however many people making excuses for Cedric Bensons inability to run like he wants to keep his job need to quit. It's evident the guy will only run like he has fire under his ass when his job is in jeopardy or he's playing second fiddle to someone else. I for one am tired of this lackluster play and I personally would like to see someone on this team that can run the ball with heart regardless of who sits behind him.

k0ng
12-03-2007, 08:05 AM
i love how everyone is quick to jump on APs back but when Benson was in there it was "The line sucks, its their fault he doesnt run well! And he doesnt have any running room!" Ap did crap that Benson cant do, like catch the ball and pick up the blitz.

I agree with your list tho Kong (for the most part)- OL, S, and WR. Runningback CANT be upgraded. Benson is on the books for at least another year, AP wont be cut because he is a valuable backup as well as STer, and Garret Wolfe was our third rd pick. Plus we dont have alot of cap space. I think if we solidify our O-line and we get backs that can pickup the blitz we will be a good team again. Id actually like to pattern ourselves after Jacksonville offensively.

There was an article last week that actually stated Benson does not count a lot against our cap. Especially now since he's injured and is going to be missing out on a quite a few bonuses. I'm not saying we should cut him or cut AP for that matter. I think we made a huge mistake in Wolfe though. If anyone is going to get cut, it should be him. We need another talented back that can share the load with Benson. Then AP can be our 3rd RB and ST guy again.

Our coaches suck to. I thought Babich was extremely bad yesterday.

toonsterwu
12-03-2007, 10:58 AM
Upgrading the OL is the priority, but it can be quickly done. It's really only two pieces, provided we get the right ones of course. A LT to slide Tait to RT, and add a guard. I think some combo of Metcalf/Garza (or one or the other) is fine at the other guard spot).

One of the least commented on things (since we have so many needs) is how we are getting gashed in the run game. Granted, schematically, we open ourselves up to that potential, but we were gashed yesterday, and to be honest, the Giants OL isn't exactly at the top of the list. I'm not real sure how to address this.

I'd look RB sometime in the 3rd-5th mix. If Wolfe has to be cut, so be it. Good organizations cut picks that don't work out, even if they were relatively high.

I still think the best scenario is something like

1. OL
2. QB
3. WR
3. S
4. OL
4 (from an Alex Brown deal). RB
5. LB or DL

Quick rough mock

1. LT Chris Williams, Vanderbilt
2. QB Joe Flacco, Delaware
3. S Josh Barrett, Arizona State
3. WR Jerome Simpson, Coastal Carolina
4. RB Kalvin McRae, Ohio
4. OL Heath Benedict, Newberry
5. DT Andre Fluellen, Florida State
6. S Joe Fields, Syracuse
7. DE Blair Boynton, Northern Arizona

bearsfan_51
12-03-2007, 11:01 AM
I'm really starting to think the lack of run defense falls on Babich. Personel-wise we're essentially the same team as last year. I suppose the changes made at a defensive tackle position could have some effect, but the best run stopper on the team right now is probably Anthony Adams so I don't see that. It just seems like there are far too many holes and far too few people to fill those holes. I hate to call for Babich's head after one year, particularly cause he seems like a great guy, but I'm not sure he's up for the job quite frankly.

toonsterwu
12-03-2007, 11:03 AM
I miss Ron Rivera in that, under Rivera, I think we mixed up our defensive calls more. I know Lovie wants to run cover 2 most of the time, but I liked it better when we mixed things up and challenged teams to adjust. Maybe I'm wrong ... maybe Babich has mixed things up, but sure feels like we've called cover 2 a lot more this year.

k0ng
12-03-2007, 11:19 AM
I don't think our Run D was really that good last year either. They were getting gashed all of last season to. The only difference was that the offense was keeping the D off the field a lot more the first half of last season. Sure Babich and Lovie deserve a lot of the blame for this season, but it seems to me that most teams have the cover 2 and the variations of it figured out pretty well.

Another big reason why we can't stop the run is it seems our dline is always pass rushing and taking themselves out of the play. Then the offensive lineman just go and block Briggs and Urlacher. Better playcalling could fix this. Drafting a fatass DT to take up space would also help.

Number 10
12-03-2007, 02:45 PM
It seems to be whenever I watch the Bears that they struggle against the stretch play more than anything in regard to the ground game. That could be attributed to an overly aggressive front seven that get by on athleticism more than power, thus the RB can just sit and wait for them to make their move and shoot for the vacated lane. Ward did that on a few occasions and it helped to have Madison Hedgecock mauling whoever got into his path. He played the game of his life yesterday.

Hurricane Ditka
12-03-2007, 04:25 PM
I miss Ron Rivera in that, under Rivera, I think we mixed up our defensive calls more. I know Lovie wants to run cover 2 most of the time, but I liked it better when we mixed things up and challenged teams to adjust. Maybe I'm wrong ... maybe Babich has mixed things up, but sure feels like we've called cover 2 a lot more this year.To quote 51 we've played alot more cover 2 since not having Vasher and Brown.

Smokey Joe
12-03-2007, 05:57 PM
am I the only one that would love to bring in a fat 330+ lb run stuffer for the DLine?

regoob2
12-03-2007, 06:02 PM
am I the only one that would love to bring in a fat 330+ lb run stuffer for the DLine?

If he could get to the QB then definetly.

Smokey Joe
12-03-2007, 06:43 PM
Profootballtalk.com reports LB Lance Briggs and the Bears have come to terms on a long-term contract extension.

Briggs, who is currently playing under the one-year franchise tender, has played hurt all season but still performed at a high level. Terms of the deal aren't yet available.

Hooray if true!

SFbear
12-03-2007, 06:45 PM
am I the only one that would love to bring in a fat 330+ lb run stuffer for the DLine?

We could. But then Lovie would make him lose about 40 lbs. Lovie's infatuation with pass rush inspite of run D upsets me sometimes.

bearsfan_51
12-03-2007, 07:02 PM
Actually I don't have a problem with speed over size. I think Lovie's bend but don't break mentality is the wisest course of action in today's NFL. The problem is that people simply aren't making tackles. 9 times out of 10 Danieal Manning shouldn't even count as a defender against the run.

Nice to hear about Briggs if true too. I'll be interested in the numbers and if this makes him the highest paid player on the team. Tillman's deal is currently numero uno, and I personally doubt they would go much higher than that.

Smokey Joe
12-03-2007, 07:13 PM
Actually I don't have a problem with speed over size. I think Lovie's bend but don't break mentality is the wisest course of action in today's NFL. The problem is that people simply aren't making tackles. 9 times out of 10 Danieal Manning shouldn't even count as a defender against the run.

Nice to hear about Briggs if true too. I'll be interested in the numbers and if this makes him the highest paid player on the team. Tillman's deal is currently numero uno, and I personally doubt they would go much higher than that.

I don't either, but it'd be nice to have a big fatass run stuffer for obvious running downs and goal line stands.

SFbear
12-03-2007, 07:24 PM
Actually I don't have a problem with speed over size. I think Lovie's bend but don't break mentality is the wisest course of action in today's NFL. The problem is that people simply aren't making tackles. 9 times out of 10 Danieal Manning shouldn't even count as a defender against the run.

Nice to hear about Briggs if true too. I'll be interested in the numbers and if this makes him the highest paid player on the team. Tillman's deal is currently numero uno, and I personally doubt they would go much higher than that.

I don't argue with speed vs size emphasis but it appears sometimes that Lovie tends to disregard the influence of personnel on run defense. Game after game of giving up record numbers in rushing all we hear is that the players aren't executing his scheme properly rather than admitting that it was probably a bad idea to start Mark Anderson over Alex Brown.

k0ng
12-03-2007, 08:20 PM
If this Briggs rumor is true, what do you guy guys think about replacing Hillenmeyer with Jamar Williams or Okwo? Jamar is a beast on ST and sure looks much more athletic than Hunter. I'm pretty sick of watching Hunter miss tackles.

Hurricane Ditka
12-03-2007, 08:28 PM
The thing about the Briggs rumor is it probably isn't true. It's PFT after all.

Smokey Joe
12-03-2007, 08:43 PM
If this Briggs rumor is true, what do you guy guys think about replacing Hillenmeyer with Jamar Williams or Okwo? Jamar is a beast on ST and sure looks much more athletic than Hunter. I'm pretty sick of watching Hunter miss tackles.
no... Hillenmeyer is so ******* underrated.

regoob2
12-03-2007, 09:04 PM
Hunter is a solid SLB. He's not gonna put up Patrick Willis numbers but he does exactly what is expected off him and he matches up extrememly well with his size against TE's.

DaBears9654
12-03-2007, 10:58 PM
I was going to say that I like bigger guys than Hillenmeyer to play SLB, but ChicagoBears.com lists him bigger than he looks @ 6-4, 238.

awfullyquiet
12-06-2007, 07:45 PM
I don't either, but it'd be nice to have a big fatass run stuffer for obvious running downs and goal line stands.

Oh John Henderson...

I agree... If anything pick up some big boy in the late rounds, i'm sure they're'll be some fatass 350-360 monster dude available who we can groom into said run-stuffer

secondly, yes, hunter is WAY underrated. he's solid. and that's more than our entire DB corps can say.

k0ng
12-06-2007, 10:43 PM
I hope Rex didn't tear his ACL again. Even if he did, there's no way we should draft a young QB and let him get killed behind that poor excuse we call an offensive line.

Smokey Joe
12-06-2007, 10:49 PM
Hopefully it is now Kyle Orton's time to show us what he's got...

bearfan
12-06-2007, 11:16 PM
I liked what I saw from Garrett Wolfe today, he wasnt amazing, but he did a nice job blocking from what I saw, and did a nice job recieving out of the backfield. Him getting tackled is funny to watch just b/c the defender just wraps their arm around him and takes him to the ground.

VoteLynnSwan
12-06-2007, 11:28 PM
I liked what I saw from Garrett Wolfe today, he wasnt amazing, but he did a nice job blocking from what I saw, and did a nice job recieving out of the backfield. Him getting tackled is funny to watch just b/c the defender just wraps their arm around him and takes him to the ground.

that's usually what happens in a tackle... what you should of said is that the defender smothers him to the ground... or envelops him to the ground.

bearfan
12-06-2007, 11:31 PM
that's usually what happens in a tackle... what you should of said is that the defender smothers him to the ground... or envelops him to the ground.

It was more the one arm takedown, kinda like if you wrestle your littler cousin or brother. Just funny to see it in the NFL

dabears10
12-06-2007, 11:33 PM
Fred Miller should have continued to be benched.

LonghornsLegend
12-06-2007, 11:49 PM
Question for you Bears fans who might know, do you guys think you will resign Berrian in the offseason?? He is really starting to emerge as a standout wr and not just a deep threat, you guys do have Davis and Bradley, I wasnt sure if the organization felt they wanted to keep him or let him walk and give the younger guys a chance

bearsfan_51
12-06-2007, 11:51 PM
Question for you Bears fans who might know, do you guys think you will resign Berrian in the offseason?? He is really starting to emerge as a standout wr and not just a deep threat, you guys do have Davis and Bradley, I wasnt sure if the organization felt they wanted to keep him or let him walk and give the younger guys a chance
I think the only way the team doesn't franchise Berrian is if they are convinced that Hester is ready to start next year. I've been on the franchise Berrian bandwaggon since the draft.

LonghornsLegend
12-06-2007, 11:54 PM
I think the only way the team doesn't franchise Berrian is if they are convinced that Hester is ready to start next year. I've been on the franchise Berrian bandwaggon since the draft.

With that being said, Hester looked like a more complete wr tonight, not just running fade patterns, and his hands are coming along...I think him and Bradley can be great athletic wrs just not as far along as Berrian is...of course franchising him is probably the smartest thing

VoteLynnSwan
12-07-2007, 02:46 AM
obviously the coaches don't think too highly of Bradley since he's not getting any PT at all.

pellepelle_10
12-07-2007, 03:53 AM
I think I've all but given up hope on our coaches abilitity to utilize its weapons. Berrian I don't believe will go anywhere for the simple fact that he's the only wr that has shown consistency of some sort. Moose is a great blocker but lets face it. He's not getting any younger. Hester could emerge as a solid slot receiver but he's still way too raw. Bradley is getting d_cked. I know he's had injury concerns in the past but in all honesty the times we've depended on him the guy has done nothing but produced. I agree with Grossman that the guy needs to play more. I personally think if he can stop getting injured he'd be one hell of a 2nd receiver and deep threat with Berrian. The question is..can he stay healthy?

The more I watch this O-Line the more I want to puke. Terance Metcalf is trash. Watching him is like watching Fred Miller.

Griese's noodle arm is all but killing this offense. He has no juice on any of his balls which is why they've limited him to 5 yd slants and dumps.

Safety becomes more of a glaring need and DT depth is all but gone.

There will be a lot of upgrades needed for this team. As much as I want to say offensively we need some key positions, I can say the same thing for defense.

*sigh* what a rough day.

regoob2
12-07-2007, 08:16 AM
There's nothing you can do when you have 4 quality DT's and they all get hurt. That's just bad luck. We absolutely need a safety that can tackle AND at least be decent in coverage. Mcgowan and D. Manning give little to nothing in run support and Arch looks like a lost puppy covering deep. Ruben Brown and Fred Miller need the axe. If we have the chance to bring in a quality LT either via free agency or the draft I feel that has to be the #1 priority, because that would move over Tait to RT which he would be better suited for. I wouldn't mind another early to mid round Guard in the draft like we did last year cause the guys we got just can't get a push. I would prefer go address QB via free agency, if we could get a qualty starter rather than through the draft cause i'm not high on any of these QB's helping us more than a OT would. Grossman has looked a lot better, not great but better. None of these Qb's would help out until probably year 2-3. I'm glad I fell asleep early I can't stand watching this team collapse and lose games we used to be able to win.

bearsfan_51
12-07-2007, 09:43 AM
I agree. I don't think we need much on defense at all. A safety, and maybe a little more depth on the d-line (I'm really hoping we cut Darwin Walker). A lot of our defensive problems have been injuries, you can't plan for that type of stuff. Even the guys playing have been playing hurt.


As for the offense. ****. Fire Ron Turner. Get a new QB. Draft two offensive lineman. Draft another runningback. The whole unit is a joke except Clark, Olsen, and Berrian.

Hurricane Ditka
12-07-2007, 12:42 PM
I'd like to say I predicted that our offensive line would be garbage without any youth. So one giant I told you so to you all.

bearsfan_51
12-07-2007, 01:37 PM
I'd like to say I predicted that our offensive line would be garbage without any youth. So one giant I told you so to you all.
Only took three years for you to be right too.

But seriously, I think most of us realized that. Toonster had be calling for a 1st round lineman since he's been here. I was never against it, I just didn't think it would happen, which it didn't.

Smokey Joe
12-08-2007, 12:46 PM
I predict we will be picking around 15. So, here is a quick offseason plan...

-Trade down 10 spots in the draft for the 25th pick and an extra second rounder
-Trade Alex Brown for a late 3rd rounder
-Resign Briggs (UFA), Berrian (UFA), Ayanbadejo (UFA), and Mike Brown (UFA, incentive laden)
-maybe resign Grossman (UFA) for 1 year and cut Griese or let Grossman go and keep Griese (whichever one would compete with Orton for starting job, to go along with a 1st day pick at QB.)
-Give McGowan (RFA) a low tender. If some other team signs him, oh well, we'd get a late draft pick.
-Let the following leave in free agency: Davis, Gilmore, R. Brown, and Darrell McClover
-Cut the following: Archuletta, Miller, Metcalf, Walker, and maybe a couple other lesser players. This would free up around at least 7 million, if not more.
-Sign RB Chris Brown(I like Faneca but we won't have the money to sign him).
-Extra Bonus, recieve a 4th round comp. pick from losing Alfonso Boone, has been phenominal with the Chiefs.
-Use any money left over for extending Harris. If we can't afford it this year, then make room next year by cutting some players.

DRAFT:
1-25) Duke Robinson*, OG - Oklahoma
2-15) Chris Williams, LT - Vanderbilt
2-25) Dre Moore, DT - Maryland
3-15) Joe Flacco, QB - Delaware
3-23) Lavelle Hawkins, WR - California
3-29) Heath Benedict, OL - Newberry
4-15) Caleb Campbell, SS - Army
4-CP) Marcus Monk, WR - Arkansas
5-16) J.J. Finley, TE - Oklahoma
6-15) Jehuu Caulcrick, RB/FB - Michigan St.
7-15) Kerry Brown, OL - Appalachian St.

*Note: Number next to the round number is the projected pick in that round.
*Other Picks: Trade down for 25 and an extra second, got a 3rd from San Diego, 3rd from Alex Brown, 4th COMPENSATION from Alfonso Boone, and 5th lost to Bills but received Panthers 5th from Chris Harris

PROJECTED ROSTER
QB: Grossman/Griese | Orton | Flacco
RB: Benson | Brown | Peterson | Wolfe
FB: McKie
WR: Berrian | Muhammad | Hawkins | Hester | Bradley | Monk
TE: Olsen | Clark | Finley
OT: Tait (RT) | Willaims (LT) | St. Clair | Benedict
OG: Robinson (LG) | Garza | Beekman
C: Kreutz

DE: Ogunleye | Anderson | Baziun | Idonije
DT: Harris | Dvoracek | Moore | Adams
WLB: Briggs | Williams | Okwo
MLB: Urlacher | Wilson
SLB: Hillenmeyer | Ayanbadejo
CB: Tillman | Vasher | Manning Jr. | McBride | Graham
SS: Brown | McGowan | Campbell
FS: Manning | Gattis

ST: Gould | Maynard | Mannaley

bearfan
12-08-2007, 01:34 PM
That would be the most ideal thing ever, and if it fell like that, I would be estatic.

bearsfan_51
12-08-2007, 03:28 PM
You're a little too optomistic about where you think people will be available.

I'm doubtful that Moore, Flaco, and maybe Hawkins and Benedict will be available where you have them (with current value of course).

I also am skeptical that we can get a 3rd rounder for Brown, though it'd be nice.

All in all it's a fine offseason, but a bit unrealistic IMO.

Race for the Heisman
12-08-2007, 03:41 PM
That kind of off-season/draft would be ridiculous. I would weep tears of joy if that happened. But it won't, it's just too ideal. What would make that even better though would be addressing the staff issues (new offensive coordinator).

bearfan
12-08-2007, 03:42 PM
Unrealistic yes, but one can always hope;)

And I dont think that a 3rd rounder for Brown would be that bad a deal. Him and Ogun have been playing pretty well as of late, and if Brown still wants to be traded his value has only been helped by his good play.

bearsfan_51
12-08-2007, 03:59 PM
Unrealistic yes, but one can always hope;)

And I dont think that a 3rd rounder for Brown would be that bad a deal. Him and Ogun have been playing pretty well as of late, and if Brown still wants to be traded his value has only been helped by his good play.

He'll be 29 next year and he's never had more than 7 sacks in a season. I think a 4th rounder is much more realistic.

bearfan
12-08-2007, 04:23 PM
He'll be 29 next year and he's never had more than 7 sacks in a season. I think a 4th rounder is much more realistic.

Yeah I guess, but he is a good all around player. I thought he was a bit younger than that, so you're right, a 4th would be much more realistic

pellepelle_10
12-09-2007, 02:31 AM
I agree. I don't think we need much on defense at all. A safety, and maybe a little more depth on the d-line (I'm really hoping we cut Darwin Walker). A lot of our defensive problems have been injuries, you can't plan for that type of stuff. Even the guys playing have been playing hurt.


As for the offense. ****. Fire Ron Turner. Get a new QB. Draft two offensive lineman. Draft another runningback. The whole unit is a joke except Clark, Olsen, and Berrian.

You couldn't have put it better bearsfan.

QB, Offensive-Line, and Runningback need significant upgrades on offense. I do believe we have positives in the WR core that just hasn't come out yet. Berrian is a solid guy and I think he'll improve. I think its apparent he works better with Grossman than he does with popgun Griese at the helm. Our TE's are just fine and Kruetz, Tait, and Garza are keepers. The rest of the O-Line starters can go. I think if we're drafting positions (other than qb) we need to take a serious look at players that can immediatelly impact our performance.
Safety is one, DT is another posibility due to depth issues, another CB would be nice in the later rnds (Angelo's specialty). I still want Benson to get replaced. His half assed efforts are getting tiring. Hopefully there will be a lot of good depth at rb and if we have the chance to get Stewart I say pull the trigger on it.

pellepelle_10
12-09-2007, 02:35 AM
I predict we will be picking around 15. So, here is a quick offseason plan...

-Trade down 10 spots in the draft for the 25th pick and an extra second rounder
-Trade Alex Brown for a late 3rd rounder
-Resign Briggs (UFA), Berrian (UFA), Ayanbadejo (UFA), and Mike Brown (UFA, incentive laden)
-maybe resign Grossman (UFA) for 1 year and cut Griese or let Grossman go and keep Griese (whichever one would compete with Orton for starting job, to go along with a 1st day pick at QB.)
-Give McGowan (RFA) a low tender. If some other team signs him, oh well, we'd get a late draft pick.
-Let the following leave in free agency: Davis, Gilmore, R. Brown, and Darrell McClover
-Cut the following: Archuletta, Miller, Metcalf, Walker, and maybe a couple other lesser players. This would free up around at least 7 million, if not more.
-Sign RB Chris Brown(I like Faneca but we won't have the money to sign him).
-Extra Bonus, recieve a 4th round comp. pick from losing Alfonso Boone, has been phenominal with the Chiefs.
-Use any money left over for extending Harris. If we can't afford it this year, then make room next year by cutting some players.

DRAFT:
1-25) Duke Robinson*, OG - Oklahoma
2-15) Chris Williams, LT - Vanderbilt
2-25) Dre Moore, DT - Maryland
3-15) Joe Flacco, QB - Delaware
3-23) Lavelle Hawkins, WR - California
3-29) Heath Benedict, OL - Newberry
4-15) Caleb Campbell, SS - Army
4-CP) Marcus Monk, WR - Arkansas
5-16) J.J. Finley, TE - Oklahoma
6-15) Jehuu Caulcrick, RB/FB - Michigan St.
7-15) Kerry Brown, OL - Appalachian St.

*Note: Number next to the round number is the projected pick in that round.
*Other Picks: Trade down for 25 and an extra second, got a 3rd from San Diego, 3rd from Alex Brown, 4th COMPENSATION from Alfonso Boone, and 5th lost to Bills but received Panthers 5th from Chris Harris

PROJECTED ROSTER
QB: Grossman/Griese | Orton | Flacco
RB: Benson | Brown | Peterson | Wolfe
FB: McKie
WR: Berrian | Muhammad | Hawkins | Hester | Bradley | Monk
TE: Olsen | Clark | Finley
OT: Tait (RT) | Willaims (LT) | St. Clair | Benedict
OG: Robinson (LG) | Garza | Beekman
C: Kreutz

DE: Ogunleye | Anderson | Baziun | Idonije
DT: Harris | Dvoracek | Moore | Adams
WLB: Briggs | Williams | Okwo
MLB: Urlacher | Wilson
SLB: Hillenmeyer | Ayanbadejo
CB: Tillman | Vasher | Manning Jr. | McBride | Graham
SS: Brown | McGowan | Campbell
FS: Manning | Gattis

ST: Gould | Maynard | Mannaley

Smokey as much as I love Chris Browns performance the guy simply cannot stay healthy. He'll be the Mike Brown of runningbacks for us. He's too much of a risk and a risk we cannot bank on given his record. If he could stay healthy I'd say heck yeah..he can't though.

bearfan
12-09-2007, 08:54 AM
You couldn't have put it better bearsfan.

QB, Offensive-Line, and Runningback need significant upgrades on offense. I do believe we have positives in the WR core that just hasn't come out yet. Berrian is a solid guy and I think he'll improve. I think its apparent he works better with Grossman than he does with popgun Griese at the helm. Our TE's are just fine and Kruetz, Tait, and Garza are keepers. The rest of the O-Line starters can go. I think if we're drafting positions (other than qb) we need to take a serious look at players that can immediatelly impact our performance.
Safety is one, DT is another posibility due to depth issues, another CB would be nice in the later rnds (Angelo's specialty). I still want Benson to get replaced. His half assed efforts are getting tiring. Hopefully there will be a lot of good depth at rb and if we have the chance to get Stewart I say pull the trigger on it.

I dont know if we should draft stewart, maybe if we let Benson go, but I have seen a few mocks where we get some quick back like Steve Slaton, that would make for a good 1-2 punch if you ask me.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 10:00 AM
You're a little too optomistic about where you think people will be available.

I'm doubtful that Moore, Flaco, and maybe Hawkins and Benedict will be available where you have them (with current value of course).

I also am skeptical that we can get a 3rd rounder for Brown, though it'd be nice.

All in all it's a fine offseason, but a bit unrealistic IMO.

Yeah, I spent a while trying to convince myself that Moore will be there, but deep down I knew he wouldn't. I really wanted to add a DT, but the only that would be worthy of that pick would be perhaps Okam who is in that 2nd-3rd range, IMO, but I don't know about that pick. I mean he could fit in nicely at NT, but then we have Adams who is also a NT and Dvoracek could go either way, but looks like his best fit is NT as well. That is why I thought Moore would be a good idea since he could fit in at both UT and NT.

Flacco, I could see him falling that far mainly because of lack of competition. But yeah, maybe a bit of a reach having him there.

As for Hawkins, I don't think that is a reach, depending on which juniors come out. A good portion of DeSean Jackson, Malcolm Kelly, James Hardy, Earl Bennett, Mario Manningham, Adrian Arrington, Devin Thomas, Brian Robiske, Darrius Heywood-Bay, etc are bound to come out (who a lot of them I have ranked ahead of Hawkins), and add that to the fact that there are at least 5-7 better seniors, IMO... I don't think that is crazy.

And Benedict has been slipping IMO. Add that to the fact he plays vs. a low level of competition, that's not good. I think even Toonster had him in the middle of the 4th round.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 10:02 AM
Smokey as much as I love Chris Browns performance the guy simply cannot stay healthy. He'll be the Mike Brown of runningbacks for us. He's too much of a risk and a risk we cannot bank on given his record. If he could stay healthy I'd say heck yeah..he can't though.
That's why we wouldn't give him the load. He would be a good no. 2 back.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 10:03 AM
I dont know if we should draft stewart, maybe if we let Benson go, but I have seen a few mocks where we get some quick back like Steve Slaton, that would make for a good 1-2 punch if you ask me.

I personally see Slaton in that 2nd-3rd range mainly because of the question marks about him carrying the load, and I agree with that assessment. But he could make a fine compliment in a 2-back system.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 10:05 AM
He'll be 29 next year and he's never had more than 7 sacks in a season. I think a 4th rounder is much more realistic.
Call me crazy, but I think some team would be willing to give up a 3rd rounder for an above average DE who would start right away...

regoob2
12-09-2007, 12:08 PM
I personally see Slaton in that 2nd-3rd range mainly because of the question marks about him carrying the load, and I agree with that assessment. But he could make a fine compliment in a 2-back system.

If its between Jonathan Stewart and Steve Slaton I think its a no brainer, take Stewart. he changes direction very well for his size and has solid straight line speed and he catches and blocks which Benson can't do. Slaton is no more valueable than Wolfe IMO. We like to pound the ball and we already have a solid 3rd down back in Wolfe who runs between the tackles very well for his size. Stewart reminds me a lot of Steven Jackson being a big, do it all back. I just don't think Slaton would add anything unless we get rid of Adrian Peterson which I am a bigger fan of than others. I don't see him as even a solid #2 back. I think Wolfe could overtake him personally. We could find someone else on ST's. We always do.

bearsfan_51
12-09-2007, 12:11 PM
Call me crazy, but I think some team would be willing to give up a 3rd rounder for an above average DE who would start right away...
You're crazy.

And he's not above average. Brown has always been overrated. Anyone that is that lack of a pass rush that he is isn't going to have that much value.

I wouldn't be against keeping Brown. Granted it will create a bit of a logjam with Bazuin coming back, but someone always seems to get hurt in training camp and if not Isreal Idonije isn't exactly irreplaceable.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 12:35 PM
If its between Jonathan Stewart and Steve Slaton I think its a no brainer, take Stewart. he changes direction very well for his size and has solid straight line speed and he catches and blocks which Benson can't do. Slaton is no more valueable than Wolfe IMO. We like to pound the ball and we already have a solid 3rd down back in Wolfe who runs between the tackles very well for his size. Stewart reminds me a lot of Steven Jackson being a big, do it all back. I just don't think Slaton would add anything unless we get rid of Adrian Peterson which I am a bigger fan of than others. I don't see him as even a solid #2 back. I think Wolfe could overtake him personally. We could find someone else on ST's. We always do.
If we are picking in the 2nd and both Stewart and Slaton are there, of course you take Stewart. But Stewart is likely gonna be long gone come the 2nd round. My ideal situation would still be to sign Chris Brown. We almost signed him this year, and he is an Illinois native (naperville I believe). Also, instead of having 2 FB's, which Lovie seems to love the idea of, we could keep 4 RB's...

pellepelle_10
12-09-2007, 02:21 PM
That's why we wouldn't give him the load. He would be a good no. 2 back.

As talented as he is I just feel its a patchwork selection given his injury conditions. I personally think it would be a wasted acquisition. We can do better. Injuries have already been a problem for this team. Why add another..*shrugs*

pellepelle_10
12-09-2007, 02:23 PM
I personally see Slaton in that 2nd-3rd range mainly because of the question marks about him carrying the load, and I agree with that assessment. But he could make a fine compliment in a 2-back system.

If Felix Jones is avail I'd take him over Slaton personally. I'd still like to see what Wolfe has as a #2 or 3rd down back.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 02:27 PM
If Felix Jones is avail I'd take him over Slaton personally. I'd still like to see what Wolfe has as a #2 or 3rd down back.

Wolfe will never amount to anything in the NFL, plain and simple. I'm sorry, but 5'7" 180 lb running backs will get killed in the NFL. What a horrible selection by Angelo that was...

And I doubt Felix Jones is available in the 2nd...

pellepelle_10
12-09-2007, 03:36 PM
Wolfe will never amount to anything in the NFL, plain and simple. I'm sorry, but 5'7" 180 lb running backs will get killed in the NFL. What a horrible selection by Angelo that was...

And I doubt Felix Jones is available in the 2nd...


I hear ya Smokey.

I think Jones will be available for the simple fact that this could be a huge crop of RB's if a lot of the juniors decide to go pro. I think we have a good chance of getting a top tier back in the 2nd. I'd rather go Stewart in the 1st but something tells me Angelo may still have blind faith in mr. headcase Benson.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 03:42 PM
with how many needs we have, don't you realize how idiotic and stupid it would be to go with Stewart in the first!?!?! You know why this offense sucks? CAUSE WE HAVE NO ******* LINE! Stewart would do nothing for us if he is running behind the same suckass line.

pellepelle_10
12-09-2007, 03:50 PM
with how many needs we have, don't you realize how idiotic and stupid it would be to go with Stewart in the first!?!?! You know why this offense sucks? CAUSE WE HAVE NO ******* LINE! Stewart would do nothing for us if he is running behind the same suckass line.

There are free-agents we can get and its not like we can't draft an O-Lineman in the 2nd. I never said O-Line was a problem (i've said this several times) and its not like if we don't go O-Line in the first there is no hope for getting one any other rnd or rnds in the draft. Think outside the 1st round here. The 1st rnd selection isn't the end all for offensive line. Only an idiot wouldn't believe that Fred Miller and Ruben Brown should get their pink slips this year and Terance Metcalf go back to his usual position on the bench or practice squad. Guard and Tackle are major needs. Both don't have to come out of the draft though. (i'd like to see at least one out of the top 3 rnds)

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 03:59 PM
Have you not seen how much $$$ decent offensive linemen are getting in free agency? If we had money to spare, sure, that'd be fine. But this offseason we have to resign Briggs and Berrian before anything else. As well as that, we have to save up and sign Harris to an extension. There is only so much we can spend.

bearsfan_51
12-09-2007, 04:02 PM
Agreed. Runningback in the 1st round is out of the question. Plain and simple.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 04:09 PM
you give Benson an OLine, you might not be calling him a piece of garbage...

pellepelle_10
12-09-2007, 04:16 PM
Have you not seen how much $$$ decent offensive linemen are getting in free agency? If we had money to spare, sure, that'd be fine. But this offseason we have to resign Briggs and Berrian before anything else. As well as that, we have to save up and sign Harris to an extension. There is only so much we can spend.

Fred Miller
Ruben Brown
Muhsin Muhammad
Adam Archuleta
Darwin Walker
(Griese or Grossman)

I'm sure if we can ease our cap by cutting or trading these guys I'm sure there is some way, somehow we can eliminate excess $$ into players that are going to benefit us from today moving forward. Again I don't think that if we don't draft a 1st rnd O-Lineman (which I've continually stated over and over again Angelo simply evades) we've ruined our future hopes. Do I want to see us get a top tier O-Lineman...only an idiot would say no. Do I think we can get one in the 2nd..most definatelly. whether u want to admit it or not we could have a good O-Line and still be trash. QB, O-Line, Safety, and RB will be top needs. I really don't care what the order is but it needs to be a top priority. My preference would be acquiring a top tier Guard or Tackle via FA and getting the other in the top 3 rnds. Safety we could address in the top 3 but Angelo is fairly good at selecting one in the later rnds.

If it were a perfect world I'd say

O-Lineman: Draft in the top 3 and grab top tier FA
RB: Draft in the top 3
QB: Either draft in the top 3 or grab some top tier FA (Derek Anderson for example)
Safety: FA or draft in the mid later tier (hoping Angelo can get some steals)
DT: Draft later rnd for depth
CB: Draft later rnd for depth
WR: Draft later rnd for depth

pellepelle_10
12-09-2007, 04:19 PM
you give Benson an OLine, you might not be calling him a piece of garbage...

If Benson had KC's O-Line of the Priest Holmes era I'd call him a bum. Lets face it. He plays when he wants to. The only times you see him run hard is when someone is on his ass for the starting position or he's playing for a starting position. This team needs someone who runs hard regardless. The O-Line is a problem just as much as Bensons drive is to earn his keep. I say modify them both.

toonsterwu
12-09-2007, 04:54 PM
I predict we will be picking around 15. So, here is a quick offseason plan...

-Trade down 10 spots in the draft for the 25th pick and an extra second rounder
-Trade Alex Brown for a late 3rd rounder
-Resign Briggs (UFA), Berrian (UFA), Ayanbadejo (UFA), and Mike Brown (UFA, incentive laden)
-maybe resign Grossman (UFA) for 1 year and cut Griese or let Grossman go and keep Griese (whichever one would compete with Orton for starting job, to go along with a 1st day pick at QB.)
-Give McGowan (RFA) a low tender. If some other team signs him, oh well, we'd get a late draft pick.
-Let the following leave in free agency: Davis, Gilmore, R. Brown, and Darrell McClover
-Cut the following: Archuletta, Miller, Metcalf, Walker, and maybe a couple other lesser players. This would free up around at least 7 million, if not more.
-Sign RB Chris Brown(I like Faneca but we won't have the money to sign him).
-Extra Bonus, recieve a 4th round comp. pick from losing Alfonso Boone, has been phenominal with the Chiefs.
-Use any money left over for extending Harris. If we can't afford it this year, then make room next year by cutting some players.

DRAFT:
1-25) Duke Robinson*, OG - Oklahoma
2-15) Chris Williams, LT - Vanderbilt
2-25) Dre Moore, DT - Maryland
3-15) Joe Flacco, QB - Delaware
3-23) Lavelle Hawkins, WR - California
3-29) Heath Benedict, OL - Newberry
4-15) Caleb Campbell, SS - Army
4-CP) Marcus Monk, WR - Arkansas
5-16) J.J. Finley, TE - Oklahoma
6-15) Jehuu Caulcrick, RB/FB - Michigan St.
7-15) Kerry Brown, OL - Appalachian St.

*Note: Number next to the round number is the projected pick in that round.
*Other Picks: Trade down for 25 and an extra second, got a 3rd from San Diego, 3rd from Alex Brown, 4th COMPENSATION from Alfonso Boone, and 5th lost to Bills but received Panthers 5th from Chris Harris

PROJECTED ROSTER
QB: Grossman/Griese | Orton | Flacco
RB: Benson | Brown | Peterson | Wolfe
FB: McKie
WR: Berrian | Muhammad | Hawkins | Hester | Bradley | Monk
TE: Olsen | Clark | Finley
OT: Tait (RT) | Willaims (LT) | St. Clair | Benedict
OG: Robinson (LG) | Garza | Beekman
C: Kreutz

DE: Ogunleye | Anderson | Baziun | Idonije
DT: Harris | Dvoracek | Moore | Adams
WLB: Briggs | Williams | Okwo
MLB: Urlacher | Wilson
SLB: Hillenmeyer | Ayanbadejo
CB: Tillman | Vasher | Manning Jr. | McBride | Graham
SS: Brown | McGowan | Campbell
FS: Manning | Gattis

ST: Gould | Maynard | Mannaley

Interesting mock Smokey.

I'm not sure we'll get a 4th for Boone. If I remember correctly, comps are based moreso on contract (along with some other factors). If we get something, I expect it to be a 6th or 7th.

I'm fine with trading down, if we can find a trade. Not sold on it, but certainly it'd be nice. I'm not a huge fan of going Duke Robinson in the first. Depends on the board.

Don't buy Alex Brown for a 3rd. Should be able to net a 4th, as others have noted.

Eh ... Chris Brown? If we clear off as much money as you suggest, depending on what else we do (and it seems your offseason is more draft than FA focused), I'd make a run at Justin Fargas instead.

Not a big fan of going into the year with that grouping at safety.

As for the draft -

Value wise, that's probably where Robinson is, late first/early 2nd. Not a big fan of going that route, though.

I can see Chris Williams and Dre Moore in the 2nd. But having one go mid-2nd and late 2nd? Don't see it. I still think Chris Williams goes in the first, with Moore as a late first/early 2nd.

I can see Flacco in the mid-3rd ... not sold on it. I half wonder if he makes it in late first.

Hawkins is fine placement. Tough to judge at this point. Could, with a good time, be like Anthony Gonzalez (well, I doubt first, just mean he could be a senior receiver with athleticism that slides up).

I can see Benedict in the 3rd. He's "slid" on account of his injury, so we'll have to see.

I'm not huge on Campbell. I have him in the 5th, but at that point, certainly, if you like someone, you go with it.

Eh ... not a fan of Marcus Monk. A number of receivers I'd prefer over him.

Rest of it is fine ... I'd rather pick another position besides TE. Perhaps a LB at that point or another safety. Flip Jehuu and Kerry and I think I like the value better.

bearsfan_51
12-09-2007, 07:05 PM
Assuming the Saints beat the Falcons tommorow and nothing crazy happens with SOS (our opponents were 11-4 today, so that's never good) we'll be picking in the 11th spot.

The Falcons, Ravens, and Panthers are all still ahead of us. That said, I think it's 50/50 that the Panthers go quarterback in the 1st round and the Falcons might pass for later as well.

I think if one of the three quarterbacks is available we have to take them. All of this Grossman talk is concerning to me. Yes, he's been ok since he's come back, but he's basically substituted he's tendancy to turn the ball over every play with a total lack of precense in the pocket. If we're picking between Grossman and Griese I'll still take a year (or half of a year) with Griese to set the stage for whomever we select as our quarterback.

If the three quarterbacks are gone, we had best hope that Long, Clady, or Otah is available. Baker and Oher would both be reaches, though I wouldn't hate either.

Kenny Phillips is a possibility. And really, that's about it to me. Dorsey, The Animal, Ellis, Malcolm Jenkins, Long, and McFadden are all players that would appear to be gone before we pick so that would mean worse case scenario we're looking at Phillips or one of the 2nd tier offensive tackles. Hell I might even consider Calais Campbell if that's the case.

Hurricane Ditka
12-09-2007, 07:11 PM
I don't see Long, Clady and Otah going off the board before 11. Where are we gonna be picking assuming we lose out. And unless one of the top OT's are gone, we have to go Qb.

bearsfan_51
12-09-2007, 07:19 PM
I don't see Long, Clady and Otah going off the board before 11. Where are we gonna be picking assuming we lose out. And unless one of the top OT's are gone, we have to go Qb.
No I don't either, but I would prefer to avoid Otah as he seems the most risky of the three. I'm actually hoping that the talk about Long being unable to play LT will drop him to us. That would take Clady and Otah going ahead of him, as I think two offensive tackles will go in the top 7-8, but it's not out of the question.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 09:18 PM
I like Otah a lot, but the thing about him is that he is mainly a RT, IMO... we have Tait hopefully shifting to RT with a LT coming in.

I wouldn't mind our 1st and 2nd round selections being Kenny Phillips followed by Chris Williams. Phillips would have to play SS for us, but in the cover 2 there ain't a whole lotta difference.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 09:22 PM
Assuming the Saints beat the Falcons tommorow and nothing crazy happens with SOS (our opponents were 11-4 today, so that's never good) we'll be picking in the 11th spot.

The Falcons, Ravens, and Panthers are all still ahead of us. That said, I think it's 50/50 that the Panthers go quarterback in the 1st round and the Falcons might pass for later as well.

I think if one of the three quarterbacks is available we have to take them. All of this Grossman talk is concerning to me. Yes, he's been ok since he's come back, but he's basically substituted he's tendancy to turn the ball over every play with a total lack of precense in the pocket. If we're picking between Grossman and Griese I'll still take a year (or half of a year) with Griese to set the stage for whomever we select as our quarterback.

If the three quarterbacks are gone, we had best hope that Long, Clady, or Otah is available. Baker and Oher would both be reaches, though I wouldn't hate either.

Kenny Phillips is a possibility. And really, that's about it to me. Dorsey, The Animal, Ellis, Malcolm Jenkins, Long, and McFadden are all players that would appear to be gone before we pick so that would mean worse case scenario we're looking at Phillips or one of the 2nd tier offensive tackles. Hell I might even consider Calais Campbell if that's the case.
Who's the animal?

Also, wouldn't you be tempted to take Malcolm Kelly with that pick if he was available. If we are picking at 11 or 12, my order of preference would be Phillips followed by Kelly followed by the best OT available. I wouldn't even think about taking Campbell. Seriously, why would we need Campbell?

Hurricane Ditka
12-09-2007, 09:46 PM
The animal=Laurinitis

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 09:47 PM
he's no animal...

EDIT: Actually, we are all animals.

bearsfan_51
12-09-2007, 10:19 PM
The Animal is the son of Road Warrior Animal of WWF fame.


You're asking why we would draft Campbell but then saying you would pick Jenkins? That makes absolutely no sense. We just gave Tillman-Vasher a combined signing bonus of about 35 million dollars. They are out starting cornerbacks for the forseeable future.

Defensive End, on the other hand, is can always be upgraded. Brown is likely gone, and never fit Lovie's system anyway. Mark Anderson shows potential but hasn't had a good year at all. Bazuin is a big question mark. O-Gun is having a great year but is around 30 and hasn't been the man since he's gotten here. Having two dominant defensive ends can do a team a lot of good, just look at the Giants.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 10:29 PM
The Animal is the son of Road Warrior Animal of WWF fame.


You're asking why we would draft Campbell but then saying you would pick Jenkins? That makes absolutely no sense. We just gave Tillman-Vasher a combined signing bonus of about 35 million dollars. They are out starting cornerbacks for the forseeable future.

Defensive End, on the other hand, is can always be upgraded. Brown is likely gone, and never fit Lovie's system anyway. Mark Anderson shows potential but hasn't had a good year at all. Bazuin is a big question mark. O-Gun is having a great year but is around 30 and hasn't been the man since he's gotten here. Having two dominant defensive ends can do a team a lot of good, just look at the Giants.
Where did I say we should draft Jenkins? I said Malcolm Kelly, the WR, but not Malcolm Jenkins, the CB...

Plus, Calais Campbell is a piece of trash, IMO, and doesn't fit Lovie's system either. Vernon Gholston, I'd think about, but not Campbell.

Also, quick question. I just head someone say that the cap is raising 10 million again next year? Is that correct?

bearsfan_51
12-09-2007, 10:41 PM
Ah..my mistake. Campbell is far from a "piece of trash". I like Gholston but we've already got one DE that's a little too small, drafting another one doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. Campbell has good size and has shown that he can get after the quarterback. I'm not saying we should draft him at all, I was just listing hypotheticals.

In fact, as the roster stands now, if we don't draft a QB and an OT with the first two picks (assuming there is value of course) I will be extremely dissapointed. I don't want to bring back Grossman. I just don't see the point anymore.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 10:43 PM
What is anyone's thoughts on Trevelle Wharton? I don't think he will get a ridiculous contract this offseason... but would he be a better fit at G or T?

MidwayMonster31
12-09-2007, 10:48 PM
I would think that cornerback should be the last thing to worry about with Tillman and Vasher locked up long-term, even though Vasher's hurt now. As long as McBride and Graham can keep developing. McBride should make Manning Jr. expendable at nickelback.
Defensive end may not be a problem either if Bazuin can come back and Anderson can adjust. They should draft or sign another D-Tackle.
Personally, I think they would draft Kenny Phillips out of Miami to give them a ball-hawk at free safety and hope that Kevin Payne can become the starter. If Grossman comes back next year, I would hope that they would draft a tackle, either Clady or Baker. Or if Grossman is gone, another quarterback in Ryan or Woodson

bearsfan_51
12-09-2007, 10:54 PM
Here are a few possibilities for our 1st three rounds (I'm not going to speculate any further with trades or compensation)

1st round-

Quarterbacks - Brian Brohm, Matt Ryan, Andre Woodson (duh)
Offensive Tackle- Jake Long, Ryan Clady, Jeff Otah, Sam Baker

2nd round-

Quarterbacks- Joe Flacco, Erik Ainge, Josh Johnson
Offensive Tackle- Gosder Cherlius, Chris Williams, Barry Richardson, Alex Boone, Tony Hils

3rd round (2 picks)-
Safety- Jonathan Hefney, Craig Steltz, Josh Barnett, Quintin Demps, Thomas Decoud, Marcus Griffin

Runningback- Mike Hart, Tashard Choice, Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Justin Forsett, Allen Patrick, Chris Boyd, Dantrell Savage

Reciever- Donnie Avery, Lavelle Hawkins, Paul Hubbard, Jordy Nelson, Keenan Burton, Dorien Bryant, Andre Caldwell, Harry Douglass


Looking over that my ideal draft would be:

-Woodson (Ryan is realistically out of the picture at this point)
-Chris Williams
-Craig Steltz
-Jordy Nelson

bearsfan_51
12-09-2007, 10:56 PM
I would think that cornerback should be the last thing to worry about with Tillman and Vasher locked up long-term, even though Vasher's hurt now. As long as McBride and Graham can keep developing. McBride should make Manning Jr. expendable at nickelback.
Defensive end may not be a problem either if Bazuin can come back and Anderson can adjust. They should draft or sign another D-Tackle.
Personally, I think they would draft Kenny Phillips out of Miami to give them a ball-hawk at free safety and hope that Kevin Payne can become the starter. If Grossman comes back next year, I would hope that they would draft a tackle, either Clady or Baker. Or if Grossman is gone, another quarterback in Ryan or Woodson
When you don't have a franchise quarterback, and you don't have a franchise left tackle, the audacity to take a safety with your first pick is far too unrealistic.

And I love the safety position, I think it's very underrated, especially in our scheme. But it's still a bit of a luxury considering our other needs.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 11:08 PM
I would think that cornerback should be the last thing to worry about with Tillman and Vasher locked up long-term, even though Vasher's hurt now. As long as McBride and Graham can keep developing. McBride should make Manning Jr. expendable at nickelback.
Defensive end may not be a problem either if Bazuin can come back and Anderson can adjust. They should draft or sign another D-Tackle.
Personally, I think they would draft Kenny Phillips out of Miami to give them a ball-hawk at free safety and hope that Kevin Payne can become the starter. If Grossman comes back next year, I would hope that they would draft a tackle, either Clady or Baker. Or if Grossman is gone, another quarterback in Ryan or Woodson
I will repeat, if we do draft Kenny Phillips, he would be SS for us as Manning is fine at FS.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 11:11 PM
looks like I convinced you on Levelle Hawkins being around in the 3rd ;)

I think Jordy goes in that 2nd-3rd round range though... and no Jamar Adams in your 3rd round safeties?

bearsfan_51
12-09-2007, 11:11 PM
I will repeat, if we do draft Kenny Phillips, he would be SS for us as Manning is fine at FS.
I'm not so sure he's "fine". Based on what exactly?

Granted, I think he's less likely to be replaced, but his coverage skills aren't all that impressive and my grandma tackles better than he does.

bearsfan_51
12-09-2007, 11:12 PM
looks like I convinced you on Levelle Hawkins being around in the 3rd ;)

I think Jordy goes in that 2nd-3rd round range though... and no Jamar Adams in your 3rd round safeties?
I said that it was "maybe" unrealistic.

I have no idea where Jordy goes. Right now I've got him as a 3rd rounder, but he could jump if he times well. That's his biggest issue right now.

Smokey Joe
12-09-2007, 11:13 PM
I'm not so sure he's "fine". Based on what exactly?

Granted, I think he's less likely to be replaced, but his coverage skills aren't all that impressive and my grandma tackles better than he does.
fine as is he isn't causing this team to suck... Ask yourself, which is better, Manning at FS and Phillips at SS, OR Phillips at FS and Payne at SS...

toonsterwu
12-10-2007, 10:03 AM
was skimming the sun-times article on Grossman today and pondering what we do if Grossman/Berrian/Brown/Briggs all leave. Certainly it's not impossible that is what occurs. I've been working under the assumption that we retool in an effort to keep our window ... but if we lose all those guys (particularly Berrian, as the other three have been talked about enough to be ready for it), the retooling process increases by a bit and does make me wonder if we would be better off trying to rebuild the window, rather than extend the window, particularly since we don't have a QB to anchor the current window around.

bearsfan_51
12-10-2007, 10:41 AM
was skimming the sun-times article on Grossman today and pondering what we do if Grossman/Berrian/Brown/Briggs all leave. Certainly it's not impossible that is what occurs. I've been working under the assumption that we retool in an effort to keep our window ... but if we lose all those guys (particularly Berrian, as the other three have been talked about enough to be ready for it), the retooling process increases by a bit and does make me wonder if we would be better off trying to rebuild the window, rather than extend the window, particularly since we don't have a QB to anchor the current window around.

Ah metaphors.....


The thing with retooling is that if we're going to do that it starts with Berrian and Briggs. They are the future of this team, among others.

That said, it seems pretty evident that we aren't going to be good next year no matter what, which is probably one reason I'm so willing to let Lovie slash his own throat.

bearsfan_51
12-10-2007, 10:42 AM
fine as is he isn't causing this team to suck... Ask yourself, which is better, Manning at FS and Phillips at SS, OR Phillips at FS and Payne at SS...

I have no idea at this point, as Payne has hardly played. I'm not going to judge them based off of draft slot selection as it seems you're doing however.

Smokey Joe
12-10-2007, 06:10 PM
I personally hated the Payne pick and I don't think he will be anything more then a backup safety/special teamer.

I think John Wendling would have been a MUCH better pick.

Smokey Joe
12-10-2007, 07:10 PM
what do you guys think of signing Corey Williams in the offseason? Probably won't break the bank and would weaken the Pack a little. He can play both NT and UT I think and is a good penetrator for a guy his size, 6'4" and 315. He's got 7 sacks this season, so he would fit the type of pass rush DT we have been looking for to compliment Harris.

pellepelle_10
12-11-2007, 02:17 AM
what UFA DT's and Safeties are going to be out there the of this season? I think getting a DT would be a smart pick.

Smokey Joe
12-11-2007, 04:55 PM
I just said Corey Williams.

bearsfan_51
12-11-2007, 04:58 PM
We signed Jimmy Kennedy yesterday, I'm not expecting much but it's an interesting pickup considering his stock coming out of college.

Gay Ork Wang
12-13-2007, 03:41 PM
Seems like little Berrian wants to stay in the Windy City

regoob2
12-14-2007, 08:27 AM
Seems like little Berrian wants to stay in the Windy City

Where did you hear that?

Also does anyone know where I could find that logo of grossman with the F**k it im going deep. I hope someone knows what im talking about it was in one of the threads i just cant find it. I was thinking about making it a shirt! thanks

k0ng
12-14-2007, 11:24 AM
Ah metaphors.....


The thing with retooling is that if we're going to do that it starts with Berrian and Briggs. They are the future of this team, among others.

That said, it seems pretty evident that we aren't going to be good next year no matter what, which is probably one reason I'm so willing to let Lovie slash his own throat.

I think this team can be pretty good next year. If we resign the right people, a couple of key FA acquisitions, a solid draft, and get our people healthy(Dusty, Mike Brown, Tommie Harris, and Urlacher mainly)...I think we could contend in the NFC again.

Health and the offensive line were our downfall this year.

bearsfan_51
12-14-2007, 11:34 AM
Age, ****** tackling, poor coaching, bitchy attitudes, overrated talent, no quarterback play, bad depth, bad luck, injuries, a porous offensive line, a runningback that only tries half the time, terrible free agent signings, Danieal Manning, Adam Archuleta, a very tough schedule, the fact that we played a cream puff schedule last year, and many many other factors contributed to our downfall this year.

That said, I think we can make the playoffs next year due to equally poor quarterback play from everyone else in the division (this is of course banking that Favre either retires or returns to 2004,2005,2006 form).

Regardless, I wouldn't hold my breath. I'd rather cut a ****-ton of veterans a and build a team that can compete for a Superbowl in 3-4 years than maintain a team that can win 9-10 games with a little luck.

Geo
12-14-2007, 11:53 AM
I can't remember a time when an entire secondary was injured and playing back-ups like the Bears had for a stretch this season. Tillman came back, and helped win the Packers game (Chicagowned), but Vasher still hasn't returned.

Safeties, that's not so rare I guess, the Colts were playing their 5th and 6th safeties last year in Marlin Jackson (a corner moved out of necessity) and Dexter Reid (free agent off the street). Maybe that's inherent to the base Cover 2/Tampa 2 defense, because of how involved safeties are in tackling and responsibilities.

SFbear
12-14-2007, 04:51 PM
... helped win the Packers game (Chicagowned)

So are you a closet Bears fan?

Its cool. Im kind of a closet Colts fan. After the Superbowl when the pain (from stabbing myself in the eye repeatedly in response to Grossman throwing up that floater) slowly subsided, I was actually pretty happy to see Peyton and Dungy get rings.

Yeah when you ask safeties to play a much larger role in the box to tackle RBs their going to get worn down as the season goes on. Its a pity because Mike Brown's injury problems didn't surface until Lovie came to town. I was hoping that the rookie Kevin Payne, 220 lbs and former RB, might develop into a solid SS that we can rely on to stay upright throughout the season but he of course landed on IR.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2007, 05:01 PM
haha i hated the colts but seriously, compared to the Patriots, i love everyone

awfullyquiet
12-15-2007, 03:00 AM
Age, ****** tackling, poor coaching, bitchy attitudes, overrated talent, no quarterback play, bad depth, bad luck, injuries, a porous offensive line, a runningback that only tries half the time, terrible free agent signings, Danieal Manning, Adam Archuleta, a very tough schedule, the fact that we played a cream puff schedule last year, and many many other factors contributed to our downfall this year.

That said, I think we can make the playoffs next year due to equally poor quarterback play from everyone else in the division (this is of course banking that Favre either retires or returns to 2004,2005,2006 form).

Regardless, I wouldn't hold my breath. I'd rather cut a ****-ton of veterans a and build a team that can compete for a Superbowl in 3-4 years than maintain a team that can win 9-10 games with a little luck.

Agreed.

Top of the list of cutting vets? Miller, Moose, Mike Brown, Metcalf... i can't think of anyone else that we'd drop... davis or bradley will probably hit the dirt too... which is sad, i'd rather have bradley, but knowing lovie and ron turner, it'll be davis that stays, where i think bradley is a more natural number 2 receiver... (and we still wouldn't have a go-to guy. period. but with the 'possible emergence of greg olsen' looming, clark, and peterson/wolfe out of the backfield (secondly notice that benson cannot catch the ball... (thirdly notice, no one else can catch the ball))... they might collectively compensate with a receiver by committee approach... who knows... maybe greg olsen will be a #1 receiver ala rivers and gates... or campbell and cooley... or croyle and gonzo (although the examples have been getting fuzzy this year)...

the point that remains is this...

left tackle. long armed ***** with a low center of gravity needs to be groomed and smartened up is our first priority. shift tait back right... let beekman, garza, and a healthy brown rotate in the middle... either way, it's gonna be a ***** to groom a left tackle since we need one now... either trade for one, pick one up in FA, or something. i don't feel like drafting one would be the best idea. i mean, as much as i can't think of an answer in the FA pool right now... it doesn't mean that it's a terrible idea to draft one, i mean sure, there's plenty of them i wouldn't mind... but Cherilus isn't one of them. i would not pick him and expect him to play LT. period. i would probably pick any of the top 5 guards to play LT... not jake long (not like we'd get him anyway), not sam baker... the only one i'd really pick is barry richardson... and even then, his pass protection skills are marginal at best, needs a year or two, but could still probably start LT... i still say max starks would be a good idea if we do stick with grossman... speed rushing isn't something that the NFCN does particuarly well (with the exception of mark anderson, who's still quicker than kampmann ), so, i'm not too worried that he's not the fastest LT in the league... and i mean. any time when you have a familiar left tackle who you've also spent 4 years with... who's a proven vet... i wouldn't be against reaching out and spending some money on him...

i sense a lt;dr coming in the future from everyone except bf who'll criticize me mercelessly... what is he not here for...

anyway.

i agree, we can still make the play offs next year... tavaris jackson isn't the answer for the vikes, and they have as many problems as we do, it's just less apparent because everyone's in awe of the expensive run-blocking line they have... the pack might not do well next year... but that's unlikely too... the lions... well... they have even more problems than the bears do... like a nearly dead john kitna... no backups... but they do have a ballhawking defense, that's for sure, but does that stop the run or pass? no... they're looking like a more fun version of the 90's cards... the only difference is is that the 90's cards weren't actually fun to watch sometimes...

if we have a healthier season next year... we'll be no worse than the 05 squad...

bf, who else would you cut for vets?

Gay Ork Wang
12-15-2007, 06:10 AM
i wouldnt cut mike brown. He is injury prone, bu tgod he is soo good. the bears were like 8-1 last year with him and he did a good job against the Chargers too. He is an emotional leader and just needs to stay healthy

bearfan
12-15-2007, 11:01 AM
i wouldnt cut mike brown. He is injury prone, bu tgod he is soo good. the bears were like 8-1 last year with him and he did a good job against the Chargers too. He is an emotional leader and just needs to stay healthy

Problem is that he cant stay healthy. Yes he is one of the most loved players on the Bears, but if a guy cant stay healthy, there is no point in hoping to rely on him when in reality you cant.

Gay Ork Wang
12-15-2007, 11:43 AM
but he is a force. Bob Sanders is the same kind i think and he is a great player. U dont have to pay him that big money but keep him