PDA

View Full Version : All-Pro Predictions


Jakey
11-07-2007, 09:12 AM
Simple...Just predict who you think is playing at an all-pro level right now...obviously it will change throughout the year. try and base your picks on overall play, not just statistics. I'll start off:

QB: Tom Brady
QB: Peyton Manning (i so wanted to put Big Ben over Peyton, but i would have got blasted!) ;)

RB: Adrian Peterson
RB: Brian Westbrook (Joseph Addai could easily go here aswell)

WR: Randy Moss
WR: Braylon Edwards

TE: Jason Witten
TE: Tony Gonzales

OT: Matt Lepsis
OT: Joe Thomas

OG: Logan Mankins
OG: ???

C: Jeff Saturday

DE: Aaron Kampman
DE: Osi Umenyiora

DT: Albert Haynesworth
DT: Darnell Docket

OLB: Julian Peterson (has slowed down in the past few weeks, but still deserves a spot)
OLB: James Harrison :D ... I'd probably say Ernie Simms really

ILB: Kirk Morrison
ILB: Barret Ruud

CB: Asante Samuel
CB: Ike Taylor (Steelers D' is No1 in the league, and although its because the D' is solid across the board, Ike has been shutting down recievers all year)

S: Sean Taylor
S: Troy Polamalu

Feel free to bash/praise whatever you want...

PoopSandwich
11-07-2007, 09:13 AM
Cooley and Miller over K2 and Gates = WTF.

Jughead10
11-07-2007, 09:21 AM
Cooley isn't exactly a proper TE either.

Giantsfan1080
11-07-2007, 09:22 AM
Addai should 100% be in there over Wetbrook.

Number 10
11-07-2007, 09:29 AM
Heath Miller?

Before I look at anyone's roster I look for guys on their favorite team....

Ike Taylor-Heath Miller-James Harrison are not All-Pro.

Jughead10
11-07-2007, 09:33 AM
Granted I haven't seen a lot of their games, but I think we have to figure Hutchinson as the other OG. He is always there anyway, and with the way AD is running I have to assume that Hutchinson is clearing some big lanes.

bearsfan_51
11-07-2007, 09:38 AM
From the Bears:

People that deserve it and will likely go
Devin Hester
Tommie Harris
Lance Briggs

People that don't deserve it but will likely go anyway
Brian Urlacher
Olin Kruetz

Splat
11-07-2007, 09:51 AM
TE's should be Gates and Gonzo and before you say I'm being a homer saying Gonzo look at the stats Gonzo is having a great year he is still at the top of his game.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&statisticPositionCategory=TIGHT_END&season=2007&seasonType=REG

Number 10
11-07-2007, 09:55 AM
I think everyone should make their all-pro team without using any of the players from their own team.

Oh wait....

Jakey
11-07-2007, 10:41 AM
Winslow couldnt block my grandmom...he is just a reciever lining up at the line of scrimmige.

And these are the ppl i think should be all-pro...not the ones that will

kmartin575
11-07-2007, 10:49 AM
Jared Allen anybody? Since he has come back from his 2 game suspension Jared Allen has only gone 1 game where he did not get a sack. I will take his consistency over a guy who has 6 sacks in one game but only 2 the rest of the season.

Don Vito
11-07-2007, 10:49 AM
QB:Tom Brady - Peyton Manning - Tony Romo
RB: Adrian Peterson - Willie Parker - Joseph Addai
WR: Randy Moss - Braylon Edwards - Larry Fitzgerald
TE: Kellen Winslow Jr. - Antonio Gates
OT: Jason Peters - Joe Thomas
OG: Logan Mankins - Eric Steinbach
C: Olin Kreutz - Andre Gurode

DE: Osi Umenyiora - Trent Cole - Jared Allen
DT: Tommie Harris - Albert Haynesworth - Darnell Dockett (DT/DE)
MLB: DeMeco Ryans - Patrick Willis - Nick Barnett
OLB: Julian Peterson - Mike Vrabel - James Harrison - Thomas Howard
CB: Champ Bailey - Anthony Henry - Aaron Ross
FS: Sean Taylor - Ed Reed (FS now right?)
SS: Bob Sanders - Troy Polamalu

kmartin575
11-07-2007, 10:50 AM
matt lepsis has been disgustingly bad this season. "not proper te's" is not a valid reason for putting heath miller or cooley above gates and winslow, given that "proper te" is not part of the criteria for all-pro voting.

Tony Gonzalez will make it over Winslow.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
11-07-2007, 11:00 AM
TE: Chris Cooley (Gates and K2 put up massive stats, but IMHO they are just big WR, not propper TE's)
TE: Heath Miller


i have no clue what this really means, but it ain't right whatever it is. Not sure how you can take out guys like Gates, Winslow, Witten, or even Dallas Clark this year, then still say that Gates and Winslow aren't TE's??

Heath Miller comes off as a complete homer pick.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
11-07-2007, 11:02 AM
Winslow couldnt block my grandmom...he is just a reciever lining up at the line of scrimmige.
[/U]

tell your grandmom to get off the roids then.....he's a TE for a reason though bud. if they wanted him at WR he wouldn't have been arguable the best TE prospect to come into the league in his draft in years, and wouldn't be playing there and tearing up defenses right now. Just sayin'

Watchman
11-07-2007, 11:04 AM
QB:Tom Brady - Peyton Manning - Tony Romo
RB: Adrian Peterson - Willie Parker - Joseph Addai
WR: Randy Moss - Braylon Edwards - Larry Fitzgerald
TE: Kellen Winslow Jr. - Antonio Gates
OT: Jason Peters - Joe Thomas
OG: Logan Mankins - Eric Steinbach
C: Olin Kreutz - Andre Gurode

DE: Osi Umenyiora - Trent Cole - Jared Allen
DT: Tommie Harris - Albert Haynesworth - Darnell Dockett (DT/DE)
MLB: DeMeco Ryans - Patrick Willis - Nick Barnett
OLB: Julian Peterson - Mike Vrabel - James Harrison - Thomas Howard
CB: Champ Bailey - Anthony Henry - Aaron Ross
FS: Sean Taylor - Ed Reed (FS now right?)
SS: Bob Sanders - Troy Polamalu


Crying shame you don't have Ruud at MLB. He's been nails this year so far. Are we talking All-Pro or Pro Bowl?

bored of education
11-07-2007, 11:21 AM
Gonzo is having one of his best years of his careers. Brodie Croyle will be on this list on day, one day, one day...one day...one day.

Jakey
11-07-2007, 11:23 AM
[QUOTE=njx9;714504]being a "proper" te is still utterly worthless justification for two stupid picks at the position. if you're just going to play the "it's my opinion" crap and act like i should respect it, you might at least attempt to provide justification that doesn't suck.

It's my opinion bro...deal with it. Cooley and Miller both block well, try hard, can catch, good team guys etc... I think Winslow and gates just catch the ball better...thats all. If you think Winslow and Gates should be the picks...write out your predictions, thats fine with me. :)

sodar21
11-07-2007, 12:02 PM
How about Charles Woodson and/or Al Harris. Both have been playing well.

bearsfan_51
11-07-2007, 12:09 PM
[QUOTE=njx9;714504]being a "proper" te is still utterly worthless justification for two stupid picks at the position. if you're just going to play the "it's my opinion" crap and act like i should respect it, you might at least attempt to provide justification that doesn't suck.

It's my opinion bro...deal with it. Cooley and Miller both block well, try hard, can catch, good team guys etc... I think Winslow and gates just catch the ball better...thats all. If you think Winslow and Gates should be the picks...write out your predictions, thats fine with me. :)

The thing is that your opinion is entirely contingent on the fact that you're a Steelers fan. If Winslow was on the Steelers and Miller was on the Browns there's no way you would make that pick. Tight end's aren't judged by their ability to block anymore.

Nitschke-Hawk
11-07-2007, 12:15 PM
Look I'm not a Favre lover even though he's my team's Quarterback... But does anybody realize the way he's getting the ball to our receivers is the reason our offense has even scored any points?! 4 count 'em (four) 4th quarter comebacks also. On pace for 4,800 yards 26 TD's and 16 INT's 93 QB Rating.

Burns336
11-07-2007, 12:33 PM
If we're talking "proper" tight ends, or just tight ends in general, im surprised not to see Jason Witten being mentioned. Dude is a beast, probably blocks better than any of the TE's mentioned above, and is just as lethal as any of them in the passing game with the exceptional of Gates.

Splat
11-07-2007, 12:50 PM
coming from a KC fan that means a lot. really.

It doesn't have to come from a KC fan it is a fact Gonzo is out playing KW but Gonzo is on a bad team so no body talks about him the guy has more catches and TD's then KW.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&season=2007&seasonType=REG

He is 5th in the NFL in receiving the only reason people keep saying KW is becasue he is younger and the Browns are a hot team right now.

Splat
11-07-2007, 01:16 PM
wow. yeah. great. which is why chad johnson made it last year. because he wasn't even in the top ten in either category. flawless logic. if you're going to suggest that a player will definitively do something, you'd better have something more worthwhile than two demonstratably worthless stats. i mean, i could've argued that winslow currently has more yards, and since the top two yardage receivers last year (harrison and johnson) were the all-pro selections, the committee clearly favors yardage and thus winslow will clearly make the team this year. but see, that would be a moronic argument. so i didn't make it. learn from my good example.

Never once in this thread did I suggest TG would definitively do any thing I just said it was a joke for everyone to say Winslow is a lock. If stats are worthless we can just look at blocking since they don't give stats for that and Gonzo is still better. It just shows people always fall in love with the younger up and coming players and forget about the players that are still getting the job done. I think KW is a great player but I feel Gates and Gonzo are still better and out playing him as of now.

BuddyCHRIST
11-07-2007, 01:23 PM
If we're talking "proper" tight ends, or just tight ends in general, im surprised not to see Jason Witten being mentioned. Dude is a beast, probably blocks better than any of the TE's mentioned above, and is just as lethal as any of them in the passing game with the exceptional of Gates.

FTW Jason Witten is the best overall TE in the league.

PoopSandwich
11-07-2007, 01:51 PM
Winslow couldnt block my grandmom...he is just a reciever lining up at the line of scrimmige.

And these are the ppl i think should be all-pro...not the ones that will

And yet it is still a terrible list.

PoopSandwich
11-07-2007, 01:58 PM
It doesn't have to come from a KC fan it is a fact Gonzo is out playing KW

Oh, its a fact?..

76.2% of K2's receptions have gone for first downs, thats 32... Gonzalez has 10 more receptions and the same amount of passes gone for first downs.

Winslow has 12 receptions of 20 or more yards, Gonzalez has 8

Winslow has 657 yards, Gonzalez has 615.

Winslow has to share a ton of passes with Edwards/Jurevicius.

Winslow is averaging 15.6 yards per catch, Gonzalez is averaging 11.8

Winslow's long is 49 (A play on which he was horse collared) Gonzalez's is 26.

Gonzalez has... 10 more receptions, 2 tds, and 0 fumbles.

Now if you want to base him playing "better" on 10 receptions and 2 more tds, then youre ridiculous. We have 17 passing touchdowns I believe, Winslow has set up multiple rushing touchdowns and passing touchdowns by getting the ball within the 5, just because other people get the TD's doesn't mean he isn't basically the one earning them...

So where is it a "Fact" that Gonzalez is outplaying Winslow? I would love to see it, especially since Winslow has been dinged up all year, and still has put those numbers up.

P01ntb1ank
11-07-2007, 03:33 PM
FTW Jason Witten is the best overall TE in the league.

Amen to that! He's really been a gem for my fantasy team :D

no love
11-07-2007, 03:42 PM
Oh, its a fact?..

76.2% of K2's receptions have gone for first downs, thats 32... Gonzalez has 10 more receptions and the same amount of passes gone for first downs.

Winslow has 12 receptions of 20 or more yards, Gonzalez has 8

Winslow has 657 yards, Gonzalez has 615.

Winslow has to share a ton of passes with Edwards/Jurevicius.

Winslow is averaging 15.6 yards per catch, Gonzalez is averaging 11.8

Winslow's long is 49 (A play on which he was horse collared) Gonzalez's is 26.

Gonzalez has... 10 more receptions, 2 tds, and 0 fumbles.

Now if you want to base him playing "better" on 10 receptions and 2 more tds, then youre ridiculous. We have 17 passing touchdowns I believe, Winslow has set up multiple rushing touchdowns and passing touchdowns by getting the ball within the 5, just because other people get the TD's doesn't mean he isn't basically the one earning them...

So where is it a "Fact" that Gonzalez is outplaying Winslow? I would love to see it, especially since Winslow has been dinged up all year, and still has put those numbers up.

Great point. But lets be honest - this is the pro bowl, not a talent contest. Gonzo has a bigger name recognition and larger fan base while everyone thinks Winslow is just the son of a HOFer who thinks he's Rambo.

neko4
11-07-2007, 03:43 PM
Pro bowl should be left up to a comitee, not voters, IMO

TimD
11-07-2007, 03:45 PM
No love for Leon Washington?!

PoopSandwich
11-07-2007, 04:05 PM
if you could read, you might've noticed that we're not discussing the pro bowl and, as such, your comment has nothing to do with anything that's been posted in this thread so far. well done.

While this is true, he is right about Gonzo probably getting into the pro-bowl over Winslow because the pro-bowl is mostly name recognition.

Vikes99ej
11-07-2007, 04:11 PM
God, all of this homerism is hurting my head.

PoopSandwich
11-07-2007, 04:44 PM
God, all of this homerism is hurting my head.

Just defending my boy...

I even said I doubt he makes the pro-bowl because of how popular Gates/Gonzo are.

keylime_5
11-07-2007, 04:54 PM
Here's mine:

QB-Brady
QB-P.Manning

RB-Peterson
RB-Addai

WR-R.Moss
WR-Edwards

TE-Gates
TE-Winslow

OT-W.Jones
OT-J.Thomas

OG-S.Hutchinson
OG-A.Faneca

C-Gurode

DE-J.Allen
DE-Umenyiora

DT-Haynesworth
DT-T.Harris

LB-Vrabel
LB-Peterson
LB-Merriman
LB-J.Harrison

CB-Bailey (off year for him though relatively speaking)
CB-Mathis
S-Taylor or Reed (tie)
S-Sanders

K-Rob Bironas
P-not sure, how about Lechler what the hell
KR-L.Washington
PR-Hester

Kellen Winslow is unarguably having a better year at TE than anyone in the league not named Gates. Gonzalez is having a good year, but is not impacting games like KW2 is. I don't care who gets voted to the pro bowl by naive fans, KW2 is the 2nd best TE in the game as of today.

(btw WinslowBodden, Looooooove the sig)

keylime_5
11-07-2007, 05:00 PM
It doesn't have to come from a KC fan it is a fact Gonzo is out playing KW but Gonzo is on a bad team so no body talks about him the guy has more catches and TD's then KW.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&season=2007&seasonType=REG

He is 5th in the NFL in receiving the only reason people keep saying KW is becasue he is younger and the Browns are a hot team right now.


Winslow's ypc is sick, and Gonzalez has 4 TDs to KW2's 3, whoopedy-doo. Gonzalez is still great, but watch the Chiefs and then watch the Browns, KW is more explosive and makes more big plays. Winslow is an underated blocker too, I've seen him drive DEs back with an attitude on some running plays. Kellen might be more of a WR than a true TE, but so is Tony Gonzalez, he's the exact same thing -what's your point

TitanHope
11-07-2007, 05:18 PM
Chris Cooley is an H-Back. If TE's who are supposedly hybrid WR/TE's don't count, then TE's who are hybrid RB/TE's don't count.

Besides, I know KW2 gets knocked for his blocking, but the argument against Gates is moronic in my opinion.

Wyndham
11-07-2007, 05:26 PM
So much ignorance it's funny.

Gonzalez is a better blocker than Winslow will ever be, and do you think any TE in NFL history would average 16ypc in Herm Edwards' up-the-bum offense ran by Damon Horrid?

Don't kid yourself.


- Al Harris: Gonzo Better Than Gates --
Mon Nov 5, 2007 --from FFMastermind.com

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports six weeks after San Diego TE Antonio Gates killed the Packers, CB Al Harris declared Chiefs TE Tony Gonzalez as the better tight end. "Antonio Gates is an incredible athlete, but I would take Gonzalez," Harris said. "I was amazed. I'd be on my guy and I'd turn around and look and say, 'Damn, that was a good catch.' "I was all over him one time. Him and the quarterback are on the same page. He puts the ball where only he can get it. You either have to run through him and commit a foul or he's going to catch it."

Gonzalez is not "impacting games" like Winslow is?

Quit posting. Such stupid comments really are embarrassing.

Ask a Packers fan (since you can't ask their Pro Bowl CB himself) how much impact Gonzalez has on a game. Unlike Winslow, he was KC's ONLY weapon on Sunday. They had no running game and no receivers. Their OL sucks. Damon Huard is awful, inaccurate and has a noodle arm. But Gonzalez TOOK OVER the football game. He got open on almost every route he ran. He caught just about everything thrown near him (i.e. within 5 yards, not 10, as Huard is known for). He blocked, although with no #1 or #2 WR for most of the game, KC had to use him on the perimeter much more.

But he didn't have a good YPC. He must suck. Doesn't matter that the scheme, OL and QB doesn't allow for down-field routes, even though Gonzalez runs them as well as anyone and gets open. Dude's not that good.

KILLERSANTA
11-07-2007, 05:53 PM
Jason Witten!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

neko4
11-07-2007, 06:11 PM
GB cant cover any TE's, its our D's main weakness

kmartin575
11-07-2007, 06:14 PM
i have no clue what this really means, but it ain't right whatever it is. Not sure how you can take out guys like Gates, Winslow, Witten, or even Dallas Clark this year, then still say that Gates and Winslow aren't TE's??

Heath Miller comes off as a complete homer pick.

Why the hell is everybody forgetting Tony Gonzalez? What's not to like about his 52 receptions, 615 yards, and 4 touchdowns?

wiscbadgerfootball
11-07-2007, 06:15 PM
is Joe Thomas really playing that well? I haven't gotten to see him play.. that's awesome if he is.

PoopSandwich
11-07-2007, 06:25 PM
is Joe Thomas really playing that well? I haven't gotten to see him play.. that's awesome if he is.

He has been amazing, I wouldn't take Peterson over him, hes been HUGE for us.

Sniper
11-07-2007, 06:45 PM
Addai should 100% be in there over Wetbrook.

Please. Stick Addai in Westbrook's situation and he's not doing what Westbrook is.

21ST
11-07-2007, 06:53 PM
Chris Cooley is an H-Back. If TE's who are supposedly hybrid WR/TE's don't count, then TE's who are hybrid RB/TE's don't count.

Besides, I know KW2 gets knocked for his blocking, but the argument against Gates is moronic in my opinion.

Chris Cooley is not an H-back he is a TE. The redskins offense does not have an
H-Back we have a FB and a TE. He was a H-back his first couple years though but he isnt now.

BamaFalcon59
11-07-2007, 07:22 PM
Falcons players who deserve consideration:

1. Michael Boley, SLB- 6'3 242- 3rd year- On pace for 140+ tackles, 118 solo tackles (very impressive), 4 FF, 4 INT, and 10 pass deflections

2. DeAngelo Hall, CB- 5'10 200- 4th year- Absolute beast this year, only the Giants have really thrown on him. 3 interceptions despite not being thrown at much.

3. John Abraham, DE- 6'5 255- Doing very well (6 sacks, 3 FF) on a team with no other pass rusher.

Boley and Hall deserve it, but LB is stacked and we're on a bad team. So I don't know.

keylime_5
11-07-2007, 07:25 PM
I was never knocking on Gonzalez, he's amazing. Never said Winslow was a better blocker than anyone if I recall, but Gonzalez is not a good blocker either for a TE. Both are alright blockers if you take into consideration their roles as receivers. But Kellen is a #2 receiver on his team not the #1 and only like Gonzo and still has better stats. Kellen deserves allpro over Gonzalez this year, at the rate things are going now anyways. Can we get off TEs anyhow, you can make an argument for those 3 AFC guys I guess, but IMO it's obviously KW and Gates at TE and there are other more debatable spots, like OT, OG, DT,CB and LB.

BaLLiN
11-07-2007, 07:29 PM
Charles Woodson has been having a good season so far

Sniper
11-07-2007, 07:36 PM
Charles Woodson has been having a good season so far

Marks the 10 year anniversary of his best season ever, so he thought he'd remind us how nasty he is

TitanHope
11-07-2007, 07:53 PM
Chris Cooley is not an H-back he is a TE. The redskins offense does not have an
H-Back we have a FB and a TE. He was a H-back his first couple years though but he isnt now.

I stand corrected, but my argument is that players shouldn't be disqualified because they're not conventional or stereotypical.

Burns336
11-07-2007, 07:56 PM
Here's mine:

QB-Brady
QB-P.Manning

RB-Peterson
RB-Addai

WR-R.Moss
WR-Edwards

TE-Gates
TE-Winslow

OT-W.Jones
OT-J.Thomas

OG-S.Hutchinson
OG-A.Faneca

C-Gurode

DE-J.Allen
DE-Umenyiora

DT-Haynesworth
DT-T.Harris

LB-Vrabel
LB-Peterson
LB-Merriman
LB-J.Harrison

CB-Bailey (off year for him though relatively speaking)
CB-Mathis
S-Taylor or Reed (tie)
S-Sanders

K-Rob Bironas
P-not sure, how about Lechler what the hell
KR-L.Washington
PR-Hester

Kellen Winslow is unarguably having a better year at TE than anyone in the league not named Gates. Gonzalez is having a good year, but is not impacting games like KW2 is. I don't care who gets voted to the pro bowl by naive fans, KW2 is the 2nd best TE in the game as of today.

(btw WinslowBodden, Looooooove the sig)

#1 -- I don't think you can really make any argument to support Winslow having a better year than Witten... and if you do, I'd love to hear it. Witten is just as big of a factor in the passing game and is a far superior blocker than Winslow is. In fact, I see no way that Winslow can be declared the 2nd best TE in the league. Could it be argued? Yes. Is it as clear cut as you make it seem? Not at all.

#2 -- Have you watched Merriman play this year or are you just putting him on this all pro list for nothing? He hasn't sucked, but certainly hasn't played like an all pro.

KILLERSANTA
11-07-2007, 07:57 PM
I stand corrected, but my argument is that players shouldn't be disqualified because they're not conventional or stereotypical.

Agree, but it doesn't matter. We all know Jason Witten will be the All-Pro TE!

:)

skinzzfan25
11-07-2007, 08:01 PM
I stand corrected, but my argument is that players shouldn't be disqualified because they're not conventional or stereotypical.

Just to put this out there, Cooley has had an amazing season blocking wise.

He's the reason Portis sprang for that long run to win the game.

As for TE though, I'd go with Witten and Gates.

TitanHope
11-07-2007, 08:02 PM
Agree, but it doesn't matter. We all know Jason Witten will be the All-Pro TE!

:)

Indeed! Tennessee boy, and as long as he eats his cornbread he'll do fine!

mchesnu
11-07-2007, 08:13 PM
Shaun Rogers has been better than Tommy Harris, IMO.

He has one less tackle than Harris. Though he has 2.5 fewer sacks, he has

1) 2 Pass Defenses--Harris has none
2) 1 INT TD--Harris has neither
3) 2 Blocked Kicks--Harris has none

keylime_5
11-07-2007, 08:22 PM
#1 -- I don't think you can really make any argument to support Winslow having a better year than Witten... and if you do, I'd love to hear it. Witten is just as big of a factor in the passing game and is a far superior blocker than Winslow is. In fact, I see no way that Winslow can be declared the 2nd best TE in the league. Could it be argued? Yes. Is it as clear cut as you make it seem? Not at all.

#2 -- Have you watched Merriman play this year or are you just putting him on this all pro list for nothing? He hasn't sucked, but certainly hasn't played like an all pro.

Merriman's been good, but his team sucks so no hype for him this year. Regarding Winslow, there was a hint of sarcasm/hyperbole in there in case you didn't pick it up, of course it's arguable. Kinda want to put Rodgers on there instead of Harris, and there are loads of good corners this year, hard to pick two. Couldn't make myself put Woodson on there even though he is doing great.

Mr. Stiller
11-07-2007, 08:26 PM
Guys..

Harrison had 1 great game.. and As much as I'd love to see him be all-pro/Pro-bowl.. It's very very pre-mature.

I frankly think that the Steelers don't have 1 All-pro other than Casey Hampton.

Faneca has been above average, but not dominant.

Troy has been ok, but with us playing a Cover-2 Secondary in a lot of our games he hasn't stood out. Average in a cover 2.


As for guys that Should make it..

Barrett Ruud, Tampa bay
Darnell Dockett, Arizona
Mike Vrabel, New England
Keith Bulluck, Tennessee


I just wish Ben could throw more in blowouts or had a better OL because he is having an all-pro season.

He's probably avoided 3-4x more sacks than he has against him. He's impossible to bring down and he breaks away from sacks a lot. I think his play is All-pro level, but I don't think he has the #'s.

If it was based on a committee of Coaches/Coordinators watching tape, I think he would get strong consideration... but being voted to the pro-bowl he'll never get it.

keylime_5
11-07-2007, 08:30 PM
I wish Roethlisberger would start suckin' like he did last year so he won't steal Anderson's spot as the 3rd QB in the AFC Pro Bowl. I agree that Harrison probably won't be all pro, but at this point he should be. Every time I click on Pittsburgh's box score after a game Harrison always has the team lead in tackles and usually a sack or more. I think he leads Pittsburgh (NFL's #1 Defense) in both tackles and sacks.

JK17
11-07-2007, 08:32 PM
#2 -- Have you watched Merriman play this year or are you just putting him on this all pro list for nothing? He hasn't sucked, but certainly hasn't played like an all pro.

I'd agree completely. A side note, a lot of what Merriman has done this year hasn't been refelcted in his stats, he has a number of tips, hurries, and attention drawn towards him but still. He's had a statistical down year, and hasn't been outplaying some other guys who would deserve to be on an All-Pro list ahead of him. His game has changed, in that he's more of a complete LB, but he'd be on this list only because of his name.

EDIT: And there is no reason why Gates should not be included on an All-Pro list as a TE. He's the best TE in the league and is having an insane year. Just because he doesn't block as well as Miller may, does not mean he's not a good blocker. But even so, he's playing at an all-pro caliber level (the only one on San Diego who is), and he is a TE. He belongs there.

Burns336
11-07-2007, 08:42 PM
I'd agree completely. A side note, a lot of what Merriman has done this year hasn't been refelcted in his stats, he has a number of tips, hurries, and attention drawn towards him but still. He's had a statistical down year, and hasn't been outplaying some other guys who would deserve to be on an All-Pro list ahead of him. His game has changed, in that he's more of a complete LB, but he'd be on this list only because of his name.

EDIT: And there is no reason why Gates should not be included on an All-Pro list as a TE. He's the best TE in the league and is having an insane year. Just because he doesn't block as well as Miller may, does not mean he's not a good blocker. But even so, he's playing at an all-pro caliber level (the only one on San Diego who is), and he is a TE. He belongs there.

I watch all the Charger games because I live in San Diego, plus my roomate and girlfriend are huge fans, and they just haven't been the same team this year. But back to the topic of all pro's -- Merriman is a great player, but he is having a down year. I've noticed he has become better in coverage and run support but his pass rush has taken a dive this year. I don't know if it's the new scheme or what but you can tell he is frustrated. Im waiting for the "now that he doesn't have roid's commentary to pour in" but I really just think Norv Turner is a poison for any team as HC. and on a side note Rivers just doesn't look right or accurate at all...

JK17
11-07-2007, 08:43 PM
I watch all the Charger games because I live in San Diego, plus my roomate and girlfriend are huge fans, and they just haven't been the same team this year. But back to the topic of all pro's -- Merriman is a great player, but he is having a down year. I've noticed he has become better in coverage and run support but his pass rush has taken a dive this year. I don't know if it's the new scheme or what but you can tell he is frustrated. Im waiting for the "now that he doesn't have roid's commentary to pour in" but I really just think Norv Turner is a poison for any team as HC. and on a side note Rivers just doesn't look right or accurate at all...

Which is why I was trying to stick in the sidenote that he has been doing a lot more then just sacks :rolleyes:

But even with that, he's in a bit of a slump this year...the whole team is.

d34ng3l021
11-07-2007, 08:48 PM
Falcons players who deserve consideration:

1. Michael Boley, SLB- 6'3 242- 3rd year- On pace for 140+ tackles, 118 solo tackles (very impressive), 4 FF, 4 INT, and 10 pass deflections

2. DeAngelo Hall, CB- 5'10 200- 4th year- Absolute beast this year, only the Giants have really thrown on him. 3 interceptions despite not being thrown at much.

3. John Abraham, DE- 6'5 255- Doing very well (6 sacks, 3 FF) on a team with no other pass rusher.

Boley and Hall deserve it, but LB is stacked and we're on a bad team. So I don't know.

Out of those, only Hall deserves the All Pro label. The other deserve to go start the Pro Bowl, but Hall deserves to be an All-Pro this year. Granted, he hasnt faced alot of top competition (Smith. We know that fiasco. Burress. He was in zone alot that game), but he has still been playing very well and consistently. Based on this year's on field play, Hall is a top3 corner.

Draft King
11-07-2007, 08:49 PM
Falcons players who deserve consideration:

1. Michael Boley, SLB- 6'3 242- 3rd year- On pace for 140+ tackles, 118 solo tackles (very impressive), 4 FF, 4 INT, and 10 pass deflections

2. DeAngelo Hall, CB- 5'10 200- 4th year- Absolute beast this year, only the Giants have really thrown on him. 3 interceptions despite not being thrown at much.

3. John Abraham, DE- 6'5 255- Doing very well (6 sacks, 3 FF) on a team with no other pass rusher.

Boley and Hall deserve it, but LB is stacked and we're on a bad team. So I don't know.

Boley does deserve it, but unless he starts to put up eye-popping stats, I don't see him making it. I can actually really see DeAngelo making it, having a great year thus far and hopefully we find a way to keep him. To finish off, I don't see John Abraham making it as an impossible feat, he doesn't have a great shot right now, but he's our only legitimate pass-rush threat and thrives even against double-teams.

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-07-2007, 08:49 PM
From the Raiders:Barry Sims,Mike Williams,Cornell Green,Jake Grove,Terdell Sands,and Travis Taylor.Oh wait this the all pro.

Only guys from Oakland that should be considered are Aso,Morrison,and Howard.Huff has also been playing pretty damn well to.

Draft King
11-07-2007, 08:51 PM
Out of those, only Hall deserves the All Pro label. The other deserve to go start the Pro Bowl, but Hall deserves to be an All-Pro this year. Granted, he hasnt faced alot of top competition (Smith. We know that fiasco. Burress. He was in zone alot that game), but he has still been playing very well and consistently. Based on this year's on field play, Hall is a top3 corner.

Funny how we answered at the same time, and though we both look like homers repping the DeAngelo Hall sigs, he's been pretty shutdown this year and I really see him having a good shot at All-Pro. Other than that, I see Winslow/Gonzalez being a tight race, with Winslow gaining the upper hand because I just don't trust KC's offense.

Mr. Stiller
11-07-2007, 08:52 PM
I wish Roethlisberger would start suckin' like he did last year so he won't steal Anderson's spot as the 3rd QB in the AFC Pro Bowl. I agree that Harrison probably won't be all pro, but at this point he should be. Every time I click on Pittsburgh's box score after a game Harrison always has the team lead in tackles and usually a sack or more. I think he leads Pittsburgh (NFL's #1 Defense) in both tackles and sacks.

Not until last game, sacks wise.

tackles yeah. He's a huge upgrade against the run and solid upgrade as a pass rusher. Not nearly the coverage LB that Porter is though...

But I'm a person who wants consistency. He was non-existent in Arizona, Cincy(Minus the game winning FF), and Denver.

I love the guy, and he's having a hell of a year, but I have to see more consistency and see him not disappear in games when we need him most.

I doubt Ben will get a Pro-Bowl slot, even though I think he's at worst the #3 QB in the AFC. Manning puts up better numbers, but neither him nor Brady could do what Ben does. I'm sorry, call me a homer, but behind our OL Brady/Manning would be putting up McNair like #'s this year. I'm not saying they're not doing good but I think Ben is playing out of their world, because he doesn't have their WR talent, and their OL's are light years ahead of ours.

Rivers, Young, Gerrard, Anderson.

YAYareaRB
11-07-2007, 09:53 PM
Patrick Willis deserves to go.. He's been the lone bright spot ON THE TEAM.. along with Andy Lee, the punter.

keylime_5
11-07-2007, 10:13 PM
Not until last game, sacks wise.

tackles yeah. He's a huge upgrade against the run and solid upgrade as a pass rusher. Not nearly the coverage LB that Porter is though...

But I'm a person who wants consistency. He was non-existent in Arizona, Cincy(Minus the game winning FF), and Denver.

I love the guy, and he's having a hell of a year, but I have to see more consistency and see him not disappear in games when we need him most.

I doubt Ben will get a Pro-Bowl slot, even though I think he's at worst the #3 QB in the AFC. Manning puts up better numbers, but neither him nor Brady could do what Ben does. I'm sorry, call me a homer, but behind our OL Brady/Manning would be putting up McNair like #'s this year. I'm not saying they're not doing good but I think Ben is playing out of their world, because he doesn't have their WR talent, and their OL's are light years ahead of ours.

Rivers, Young, Gerrard, Anderson.

hmmm...I disagree about Big Ben. Brady and Manning have such quick releases and make their decisions so fast, and add into that the fact that they helped make their respective playbooks and call most plays themselves I doubt that Manning and Brady wouldn't be pro bowlers behind even a sorry offensive line. It's not like teams haven't been able to beat NE's and IND's lines in the past, it's that those two throw the ball before anyone can get them, that's why guys like those 2 never get sacked and guys who are polar opposites at getting the ball out like David Carr and Charlie Frye always get sacked.

Mr. Stiller
11-07-2007, 10:47 PM
hmmm...I disagree about Big Ben. Brady and Manning have such quick releases and make their decisions so fast, and add into that the fact that they helped make their respective playbooks and call most plays themselves I doubt that Manning and Brady wouldn't be pro bowlers behind even a sorry offensive line. It's not like teams haven't been able to beat NE's and IND's lines in the past, it's that those two throw the ball before anyone can get them, that's why guys like those 2 never get sacked and guys who are polar opposites at getting the ball out like David Carr and Charlie Frye always get sacked.

I don't see them doing anywhere near the level they are wiyh our O and receivers.

Jakey
11-08-2007, 06:13 AM
For all those ppl that that blasted my picks of Cooley and Miller...obviously Miller was a homer pick, and i just like Cooley...If i was being really honest i think Jason Witten is the best all-round TE in the legue, and i think Tony Gonzales is a close second. So i'll change my picks to them. For ppl to say that K2 and Gates are the best tight ends in the league...your talking out of your arse holes. They are the best recieving tight ends in the league...thats all. And for the other ppl that say i'm just being a homer...if you read it properly, i actually said i would take Ernie Simms really, not James Harrison.

PoopSandwich
11-08-2007, 07:03 AM
For all those ppl that that blasted my picks of Cooley and Miller...obviously Miller was a homer pick, and i just like Cooley...If i was being really honest i think Jason Witten is the best all-round TE in the legue, and i think Tony Gonzales is a close second. So i'll change my picks to them. For ppl to say that K2 and Gates are the best tight ends in the league...your talking out of your arse holes. They are the best recieving tight ends in the league...thats all. And for the other ppl that say i'm just being a homer...if you read it properly, i actually said i would take Ernie Simms really, not James Harrison.

You're ridiculous, if you haven't realized part of a tight ends game is... RECEIVING!!! The fact that Winslow is on pace to put up well over 1,000 yards and creating mismatches for defenses opening it all up for Braylon Edwards makes him even more valuable.

You're the one "speaking out of your arse holes." Just because Winslow isn't the best blocker as a tight end doesn't mean he's not a good tight end, it just means that blocking isn't his speciality.

Jakey
11-08-2007, 07:04 AM
I didnt say he wasnt a good tight end...i'm just saying he aint the best! I know he is a good tight end.

EDIT: If Winslow puts up over 100 recieving yards against us on Sunday, i will add- 'K2 is the best TE in the league' to my sig...just to make you happy.

brat316
11-08-2007, 07:09 AM
ahhhhh i just saw a troll run by

brat316
11-08-2007, 07:17 AM
I would put Winslow at the 5 of the top tight ends

1. Gates
2. Gonzo
3. Witten
3. Clark
5. Heap
5. Kellen
7. Shockey
7. Miller
7. Watson
7. Cooley

Clark is a complete tight end, but he gets beat out in receiving by Gates and Gonzo
Kellen is really good at receving, but falters in the other area, but still up there, Heap is good all around not Kellen like numbers, but good when healthy

Caddy
11-08-2007, 07:19 AM
I'm glad to see Barrett Ruud getting some non-homer love.

brat316
11-08-2007, 07:20 AM
Ruud is good, he should make the pro bowl, who from the NFC beside Urlacher can make a case against this man, who

Jakey
11-08-2007, 07:21 AM
I'm glad to see Barrett Ruud getting some non-homer love.

Ruud is a tackling machine!

PoopSandwich
11-08-2007, 09:16 AM
Well whatever, you guys can take your blocking tight ends and I'll take Kellen/Gates any day.

I beleive since the Steelers game we have given up a total of 7 sacks in 7 games. Appearently we don't need a blocking tight end to start, or Kellen isn't doing absolutely horrible.

The man has produced 32 first downs for us, pretty damn important player.

bored of education
11-08-2007, 11:15 AM
I'll take Gonzo since he is a beast in EVERY ASPECT.

Jakey
11-08-2007, 11:21 AM
I'll take Gonzo since he is a beast in EVERY ASPECT.

......Thankyou!

kmartin575
11-08-2007, 11:51 AM
Well whatever, you guys can take your blocking tight ends and I'll take Kellen/Gates any day.

I beleive since the Steelers game we have given up a total of 7 sacks in 7 games. Appearently we don't need a blocking tight end to start, or Kellen isn't doing absolutely horrible.

The man has produced 32 first downs for us, pretty damn important player.

Tony Gonzalez can block better than Winslow and is also the better receiver.

Gonzalez is a first ballot hall of famer yet is still playing as well as he did 5 years ago.

kmartin575
11-08-2007, 12:23 PM
prove it. although, since that may require you to post something other than "XXXX player from the chiefs is the best!!!", i'm not sure if you'll actually be able to do it.

Can't really be proven. All that can be said is that Gonzalez has consistently been the best or one of the best his entire career and he is still playing just as good as he did early on. Kellen Winslow is nothing special. He's not doing anything that any tight end before him hasn't done.

Winslow also has Braylon Edwards and Joe Jurevicius to draw some of the attention off of him as well as an offensive line that gives his quarterback time to get him the ball.

The Chiefs lost Eddie Kennison for most of the year and their only other decent option in the passing game is a rookie.

Also, Gonzalez accounts for 37% of the Chiefs' passing yards while Winslow accounts for 33% of the Browns' passing yards.

Winslow has 2 fumbles, Gonzalez has zero. Winslow seems to have a trouble holding onto the ball. Gonzalez has the better hands.

Gonzalez has more receptions and touchdowns. The only stat Winslow has Gonzalez beat in is yards.

Gonzalez has Winslow beat in the rankings on footballoutsiders.com. Gonzalez has a higher catch percentage for passes thrown his way (69% compared to Winslow's 58%). Gonzalez had higher DPAR and DVOA rankings which, to make it simple, means he is more valuable to his team.

All signs lead to Gonzalez being the better tight end (and the best of all time).

LionSmack
11-08-2007, 12:44 PM
Funny that the only two players on the Lions who I think deserve consideration (for All-Pro, not the Pro Bowl team) are on the defense when everyone thought their offense would be the headline grabber.

Anyway, I haven't watched Tommie Harris every game and I know his numbers are slightly better than Shaun Rogers, but Rogers has been an unstoppable force. He's playing far better than even his two other Pro Bowl seasons. Every game he's been great in, we've won, and the two he wasn't so good in, you saw what happened. There's no blocker in the league who has a shadow of a prayer against him one-on-one.

Ernie Sims is second in the league in tackles for OLB's. Also has one sack, one pick, one FF. He is gaining more and more every game in awareness and playmaking ability - every game he seems to stop a number of plays short of first downs just like a good Cover 2 WLB should. Plus he dishes out big hits all the time.

Jakey
11-08-2007, 12:52 PM
Funny that the only two players on the Lions who I think deserve consideration (for All-Pro, not the Pro Bowl team) are on the defense when everyone thought their offense would be the headline grabber.

Anyway, I haven't watched Tommie Harris every game and I know his numbers are slightly better than Shaun Rogers, but Rogers has been an unstoppable force. He's playing far better than even his two other Pro Bowl seasons. Every game he's been great in, we've won, and the two he wasn't so good in, you saw what happened. There's no blocker in the league who has a shadow of a prayer against him one-on-one.

Ernie Sims is second in the league in tackles for OLB's. Also has one sack, one pick, one FF. He is gaining more and more every game in awareness and playmaking ability - every game he seems to stop a number of plays short of first downs just like a good Cover 2 WLB should. Plus he dishes out big hits all the time.

I think Ernie Simms is awsome, and Shaun Rogers is definately good...but i dont think he is playing at the level of Haynesworth or Dockett.

bored of education
11-08-2007, 12:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLh1T4OJae8

proof of Gonzo is better than k2!

PoopSandwich
11-08-2007, 01:41 PM
Can't really be proven. All that can be said is that Gonzalez has consistently been the best or one of the best his entire career and he is still playing just as good as he did early on. Kellen Winslow is nothing special. He's not doing anything that any tight end before him hasn't done.

Winslow also has Braylon Edwards and Joe Jurevicius to draw some of the attention off of him as well as an offensive line that gives his quarterback time to get him the ball.

The Chiefs lost Eddie Kennison for most of the year and their only other decent option in the passing game is a rookie.

Also, Gonzalez accounts for 37% of the Chiefs' passing yards while Winslow accounts for 33% of the Browns' passing yards.

Winslow has 2 fumbles, Gonzalez has zero. Winslow seems to have a trouble holding onto the ball. Gonzalez has the better hands.

Gonzalez has more receptions and touchdowns. The only stat Winslow has Gonzalez beat in is yards.

Gonzalez has Winslow beat in the rankings on footballoutsiders.com. Gonzalez has a higher catch percentage for passes thrown his way (69% compared to Winslow's 58%). Gonzalez had higher DPAR and DVOA rankings which, to make it simple, means he is more valuable to his team.

All signs lead to Gonzalez being the better tight end (and the best of all time).

How about you read the stats I posted and rethink what you just said.

Oh, its a fact?..

76.2% of K2's receptions have gone for first downs, thats 32... Gonzalez has 10 more receptions and the same amount of passes gone for first downs.

Winslow has 12 receptions of 20 or more yards, Gonzalez has 8

Winslow has 657 yards, Gonzalez has 615.

Winslow has to share a ton of passes with Edwards/Jurevicius.

Winslow is averaging 15.6 yards per catch, Gonzalez is averaging 11.8

Winslow's long is 49 (A play on which he was horse collared) Gonzalez's is 26.

Gonzalez has... 10 more receptions, 2 tds, and 0 fumbles.

Now if you want to base him playing "better" on 10 receptions and 2 more tds, then youre ridiculous. We have 17 passing touchdowns I believe, Winslow has set up multiple rushing touchdowns and passing touchdowns by getting the ball within the 5, just because other people get the TD's doesn't mean he isn't basically the one earning them...

So where is it a "Fact" that Gonzalez is outplaying Winslow? I would love to see it, especially since Winslow has been dinged up all year, and still has put those numbers up.

As you were saying?

kmartin575
11-08-2007, 02:50 PM
shockingly, NONE of this has anything to do with this year's all-pro selections. so, unless you'd rather debate hall of fame potential, or all-time rankings...



bad argument as the converse is also true: winslow is not the only target on the browns offense, thus he will receive less opportunities to catch the ball.



so can i quote you as saying that dwayne bowe sucks, or is calling him "only a rookie" actually supposed to have some relevance here? but i guess the fact that he's outperforming jurevicius is immaterial, since it doesn't support your argument (which is still a bad argument).



how is this even vaguely relevant? especially after you showed that the browns actually have other targets?



yes, fumbles are a direct indication of a player's ability to catch the ball. dave krieg would've been the worst receiver ever. further, fumbles are a GREAT indication of ability at the tight end position. do you have any idea what the hell you're talking about, or did you just google some stats and then attempt to fit them together to make it sounds like gonzalez is having the best season ever for a te?



weird that gonzalez is leading in the two stats directly attributable to being (by your admission) the only receiver worth anything on the cheifs roster. can't imagine how that happened. could it be that derek anderson actually targets edwards on occasion? shocking. the only thing your stat shows that winslow is better after the catch.



no it doesn't. unless you're next going to argue that there are actually 9 better te's in the league than gonzalez (10th in DVOA). i mean, if we want to use metrics, gonzalez is having a completely average season, and has actually been surpassed in metrics by a superior blocking tight end (dan graham). further, arguing with those stats, you should be arguing that, rather than gonzalez being anything better than middling, ben watson is the best tight end in the league right now.



no they don't. at least, unless you're really, really bad at interpreting evidence or arguing. i wouldn't want to make you think to hard, but you might at least try, in the future, to find stats that don't hurt your own position.

Say all you want but in the end Gonzalez is a HOF fame TE and the best of all time while Winslow will best be known for who is father was and for crashing his motorcycle into a curb.

Who was it that broke the touchdown record for a tight end this season? Yeah, that was Gonzalez.

I guarantee that when pro bowl time comes around, Gates and Gonzalez are the two that will end up in Hawaii, not Winslow.

d34ng3l021
11-08-2007, 04:26 PM
Funny how we answered at the same time, and though we both look like homers repping the DeAngelo Hall sigs, he's been pretty shutdown this year and I really see him having a good shot at All-Pro. Other than that, I see Winslow/Gonzalez being a tight race, with Winslow gaining the upper hand because I just don't trust KC's offense.

Him and Ike Taylor deserve the All Pro label. Maybe Samuels, but that defense is so talented...it makes his job alot easier.

JK17
11-08-2007, 04:41 PM
Say all you want but in the end Gonzalez is a HOF fame TE and the best of all time while Winslow will best be known for who is father was and for crashing his motorcycle into a curb.

Who was it that broke the touchdown record for a tight end this season? Yeah, that was Gonzalez.

I guarantee that when pro bowl time comes around, Gates and Gonzalez are the two that will end up in Hawaii, not Winslow.

What does any of that have to do with this thread though, aside from pointlessly boasting about what everyone already knows was a great career Gonzalez had?

PoopSandwich
11-08-2007, 04:47 PM
Say all you want but in the end Gonzalez is a HOF fame TE and the best of all time while Winslow will best be known for who is father was and for crashing his motorcycle into a curb.

Oh yeah because he crashed a motorcycle means he hasn't done anything this year, good one there!!!

Who was it that broke the touchdown record for a tight end this season? Yeah, that was Gonzalez.

And Kellen is on pace to break the record for receiving yards in one year for a tight end... In his first full season with the Browns he tied the team record for receptions in one year.

I guarantee that when pro bowl time comes around, Gates and Gonzalez are the two that will end up in Hawaii, not Winslow.

Congrats, no one is saying that Gonzalez is bad, just that Winslow is more deserving THIS YEAR. Gonzalez isn't even playing bad, hes playing at a point to where he could make it justifiably over Winslow, but its a fan vote and people like you are voting so anything can happen.

TitanHope
11-08-2007, 04:49 PM
Him and Ike Taylor deserve the All Pro label. Maybe Samuels, but that defense is so talented...it makes his job alot easier.

...Ike Taylor plays on the #1 defense in the league. So his job would be easier than Asante's.

Mr. Stiller
11-09-2007, 12:54 AM
...Ike Taylor plays on the #1 defense in the league. So his job would be easier than Asante's.

And if Ike Taylor had a pair of hands he'd probably have about 6-8 Int's right now.

If Ike goes to Wal-mart and even gets the "Equaline receiving hands" he should be in line for about 6-10 INT's a year. Let alone the top name brand.

I don't know how many times they threw the ball right to his #'s or grill, or he made a great jump on the ball to just drop it.

Jakey
11-09-2007, 09:45 AM
errrrmmmm...Jereme Tuman from teh Steelers is the best0rz!!!1 :D

d34ng3l021
11-09-2007, 11:34 AM
...Ike Taylor plays on the #1 defense in the league. So his job would be easier than Asante's.

But Taylor is a bigger part to his number 1 defense than Samuels is to his number whatever defense. Not to mention Taylor is a huge reason why Steelers are ranked number 1 against the pass.

Jakey
11-09-2007, 11:57 AM
But Taylor is a bigger part to his number 1 defense than Samuels is to his number whatever defense. Not to mention Taylor is a huge reason why Steelers are ranked number 1 against the pass.

I am supprised someone other than a Steelers fan has noticed that, you deserve some props. I also believe that Deangelo Hall is having a great year...so he deserves some props aswell.

kmartin575
11-09-2007, 02:31 PM
Oh yeah because he crashed a motorcycle means he hasn't done anything this year, good one there!!!



And Kellen is on pace to break the record for receiving yards in one year for a tight end... In his first full season with the Browns he tied the team record for receptions in one year.



Congrats, no one is saying that Gonzalez is bad, just that Winslow is more deserving THIS YEAR. Gonzalez isn't even playing bad, hes playing at a point to where he could make it justifiably over Winslow, but its a fan vote and people like you are voting so anything can happen.

And the pro bowl is a popularity contest as much as it is a contest of that years performance. Tony Gonzalez has gone to 8 straight pro bowls. He broke the touchdown record for a tight end this year. I think I know who will get the most votes.

Am I supposed to be impressed with Winslows 89 receptions last year? Tony Gonzalez has had 93 and 102 receptions in a season. And I will go on record saying that Winslow will not pass up Gonzalez' 1,258 yards in 2005 or even his 1,203 yards in 2000.

JK17
11-09-2007, 02:41 PM
And the pro bowl is a popularity contest as much as it is a contest of that years performance. Tony Gonzalez has gone to 8 straight pro bowls. He broke the touchdown record for a tight end this year. I think I know who will get the most votes.

Am I supposed to be impressed with Winslows 89 receptions last year? Tony Gonzalez has had 93 and 102 receptions in a season. And I will go on record saying that Winslow will not pass up Gonzalez' 1,258 yards in 2005 or even his 1,203 yards in 2000.

Could you just stop pointlessly boasting about something no one is disputing. There is a difference between All-Pro and Pro-bowl. Tony Gonzalez is a good TE, tell us something we don't know. Unless there are a couple more Chiefs you feel like celebrating for no reaosn.

Sniper
11-09-2007, 02:42 PM
Trent Cole folks.....Trent Cole...