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toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 05:07 AM
I went through the schedules and did some loose projections to come up with this order. That said, as always, I fully note that things could change in a week. Who really though St. Louis would win this week against what looked to be a resurgent New Orleans squad? This draft should look somewhat different. This will be far shorter than my usual. I imagine one of the big questions will be who I considered. Too lazy to think 2nd round trades for now. I’ll go through this again sometime midweek.

1. New York Jets

I may hear it from Jets fans on this, but their remaining schedule looks brutal in regards to their chances of winning a game. Add in a young QB working out his kinks, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they finish up here. So what do they do? I think one of the difficulties in picking first overall this year is that I see very few teams that seem likely to sell out to move to the top spot. While I am perfectly capable in envisioning interdivision trades … I don’t see Miami and the Jets doing something this high in the draft. At the end of the day, I make a pick. Like the Dolphins, it really isn’t a superb year for the Jets to be picking first overall. I think the best available talent this year is Darren McFadden, and that’s the route I think they go. McFadden would need a poor time to drop. McFadden has some similar concerns with Peterson, but I think he’ll benefit from Peterson’s production, as teams may decide that having his explosive talents for 3-5 years may be worth it, considering the lifespan of coaches and the lifespan of running backs anyways. Furthermore, if you have a running back that can help ease the load early on in McFadden’s career, it could be a big help. Thomas Jones can do that for McFadden for a couple more years, and a Jones/McFadden combination, along with Washington, may be the best thing for Kellen Clemens.

New York Jets pick: RB Darren McFadden, Arkansas


2. Miami Dolphins

One interesting school of thought that someone floated is that they are purposefully not playing John Beck yet so that they won’t have to draft a QB in the first. That way, there’s no chance of Beck failing bad enough to warrant definitively moving on. Hopefully that’s not the case, as that’d be a very warped thought process, and I don’t think they should draft a QB anyways. At some point, though, they will have to turn it over to Beck.

I have no idea why, but I have the feeling that the Fins will pull off a win, if not two, this year. There really isn’t any great reasoning behind this. Just a gut feeling. What do they do here? Well … McFadden’s off the board. There goes the one pick that I think actually makes sense for them this high in the draft, despite what the Fins fans have said so far. But it’s gone. Is there a team that trades up? I’m not sold. Who’s going to sell out here when they could deal up to 3, as I think the Patriots will look to move down as well? There would have to be someone that a team falls in love with, and it’s too early in the process to figure that out.

I’m making a pick here, and I don’t particularly like any of the options available. I’ll probably hear it from Dolphins fans again. To be honest, at the beginning of the year I wasn’t sold that he would be a top 10 pick. But I’ve slowly come around to it, and I think Malcolm Jenkins could establish himself as a top 5 value at the end of the day. With Jason Allen moved back to safety, Jenkins could be the stud CB they need, perhaps giving Capers a Woodson/Lake type tandem.

Miami Dolphins pick: CB Malcolm Jenkins, the Ohio State

3. New England Patriots f/ San Francisco 49ers

I might hear it from 49ers fans as well on this. I just have a feeling that the Rams will make a tiny push the 2nd half of the year and win another game or 2. The 49ers just lack the talent or consistency right now. Mike Nolan’s definitely on the hot seat. That said, this isn’t their pick anyways. The Patriots would get the last laugh at everyone if they finish with a top 5 pick (heck, I was doing random scenarios and I could see the Patriots end up with the first overall) and win the whole enchilada. I don’t expect the Patriots to stay put here, as there isn’t really a need for them that demands a move. If the first two picks go McFadden/Jenkins, there will be plenty of teams that look to move up here, with some enticing talents available. Who? I’m guessing Raiders for now.

Projected Trade:

Oakland Raiders get the 3rd overall pick
New England Patriots get the 5th overall, the Raiders 2008 4th rounder, and the Raiders 2009 2nd rounder and 3rd rounders

* - Paranoid reminded me that the Pats already owned the Raiders 3rd this year, so I had to adjust the trade, as I wasn't going to revamp this for now. So yes, a convoluted scenario to make value meet that likely wouldn't occur.

I think the Patriots would be amenable to a variety of packages, and they wouldn’t necessarily need a 2nd rounder. Just a guess, though. I think the Raiders may be tempted to jump the Rams to snare someone. While I think I would go offense, I can see them deciding to wait on offensive line and WR/RB value is probably better a bit later on. So the nod here goes defense. While the better pick for their needs is probably Glenn Dorsey, I think they go Chris Long here. I’ve long felt Long was better suited as a 4-3 end (and slimming down a bit in the process. He can make a decent 3-4 end, perhaps somewhere between Jarvis Green and Ty Warren, but I think he could be a dominant 4-3 end. I was tempted to move Oakland up in the overall, since the Russell era is likely to start soon. But then again, I thought to myself … what do they really lose going from McCown to Russell? Chris Long has worked his way to be a deserving top 10 pick and probable top 5 value, and I think Al Davis would love to have Chris follow in pops footsteps. It is an area the Raiders could use an upgrade in as well. I think the Rams potential to take a DL talent may convince them to be bold.

Oakland Raiders pick: DE Chris Long, Virginia

4. St. Louis Rams

This team really should never have been this bad, and I think they might go on a little “surge” (relatively speaking of course) in the 2nd half after this win. Of course, they could go ahead and tank as well, so who knows, but the fact that this team came out firing serves to show a tiny bit that Linehan hasn’t completely lost his team. Will it be enough to save his job? I doubt it. What do they do here? Is there a team that would push up? Atlanta comes to mind … but do they need Glenn Dorsey that bad to move up here? I guess if there’s a QB they fall in love with, they could consider it (but then again, they could just swap with New England to jump Minnesota). They could use a pass rushing end to groom behind Little. Hall’s been banged up this year as well. Offensive line is a consideration as well. Is Glenn Dorsey an option? I’m not sure, as Carriker as a 3-tech and Ryan as the nose makes a lot of sense. The nod goes to the OL, as Barron’s been disappointing and the depth isn’t pretty. They took a gamble on Barron’s potential last time. This time, while there are a couple other options, I think they go with the steady Jake Long here. Even if Pace comes back, I think OL should be the focus after further deliberation. They could start Long inside for a year as they determine what his pro capabilities are (can he play LT).

St. Louis Rams pick: OT Jake Long, Michigan

5. New England Patriots f/ Oakland Raiders

I could envision them dealing down again, but I have a tough time seeing a move to fully support. Perhaps if Atlanta falls in love with a QB and desperately wants to move up. That said, I could also see them stay put here. I don’t like the pick I’m about to make, as I’m not sold on the player being deserving of going this high. Furthermore, add in the fact that Glenn Dorsey is still on the board. I’m sure I’ll hear some crowing on this move, but the nod is to a CB, and in particular, Aqib Talib. He seems like the type of corner that Bill Belichick could really love. I will say that Talib needs to run probably around something better than say, a 4.5.

New England Patriots pick: CB Aqib Talib, Kansas

6. Minnesota Vikings

Childress is on the hot seat, as Tarvaris was the guy he wanted. I mean, a half decent QB this year, and this team is probably in the mix of parity with the rest of the league. I could see them sneaking a couple more wins potentially. Anyhow, they’re here, and the nod is going to be QB. A lot will depend on who is running things there. I think either Woodson or Ryan could work. Nod is going back to Andre’ Woodson this time around.

Minnesota Vikings pick: QB Andre’ Woodson, Kentucky

7. Atlanta Falcons

I’m quite impressed at how the Falcons have played the last couple of weeks. This team, despite all it’s been through, is showing some fight, and Petrino’s done well in adjusting. What’s the call here? If they stay put, the tremendous value of Glenn Dorsey is available. They could also go QB. Is there a team that might move up? Tempted on KC. Don’t see it, though. Perhaps Cincinnati? I’m going with a big move …

Projected Trade:

Buffalo Bills get the 7th overall pick
Atlanta Falcons get the Bills 1st (20th overall), 2nd, and their first 3rd (Baltimore’s)

I think the Falcons will be very amenable to taking extra picks and moving down a bit further. I think Petrino probably would like to really rebuild the team in his image. Buffalo has some areas of concern, and McCargo has played better of late. But a dominant DT like Dorsey is still on the board … and that might be too tempting. I’m going to really enjoy hearing all the comments about Dorsey sliding too far. I don’t disagree … but I don’t like him enough to put him with Dolphins, and the Rams didn’t make enough sense for me. Raiders moving up to 3 is probably the position where he should go, but I can see Long there. I guess I could’ve explored some big deals to push into the top 5, but I don’t see any team particularly willing to push all the chips when Sedrick Ellis is also available.

Buffalo Bills pick: DT Glenn Dorsey, Louisiana State

8. Kansas City Chiefs

The defense is stout. Numbers aren’t dominant, but then again, they’ve had to deal with their own offense. The emergence of Boone has been tremendous. With the Croyle era likely starting, I’m guessing they’ll struggle down the stretch a bit. This pick should go offense, and in particular, the offensive line. The only caveat would be if Croyle was that bad to convince them otherwise. As of now, I don’t see that happening. Which offensive lineman? After a slow start, Ryan Clady has been much better of late. While he has to work on his run blocking, he’s arguably the OT with the highest LT potential, and I think they need to draft a guy that could be their LT of the future.

Kansas City Chiefs pick: OT Ryan Clady, Boise State

9. Houston Texans

A lot of factors have derailed a promising start. They’ve got a fairly tough schedule remaining, and even with the return of Andre Johnson, I’m not sure how much they can push up. What do they do here at 9? I’ve love to find a deal, but I don’t see one that I particularly buy. As such, I’m making a pick. They really should go OL or RB, but I’m not sure any of the OT’s make a lot of sense here for them, and the RB value is probably not here. Thus, the nod will go defense … again, and the nod is to Kenny Phillips to try and find a dynamic safety. Phillips has been a bit inconsistent this year, but he still has the athletic potential to really dominate, and he could be the 3rd level, as they lack the dynamic safety play right now, to solidify this defense.

Houston Texans pick: S Kenny Phillips, Miami (Florida)

10. Cincinnati Bengals

As I’ve noted, I think it’s time to make a coaching switch, as I think that, while Marvin is a good coach, that he’s probably taken them as far as he can, and maybe a new voice is needed. So it’s tough to gauge personnel if something changes. I haven’t followed closely enough to know what’s happened to the run game this year. That said, they still need to fix that D. LB could be a consideration, as could DL. I’m leaning DE here for now, as I think the return of Ahmad Brooks will help with the run D, and that they could really use a pass rush boost. The nod goes to Derrick Harvey.

Cincinnati Bengals pick: DE Derrick Harvey, Florida

11. Carolina Panthers

This team is just an enigma to me, and I think it’s the end of the line for John Fox as well. Yes, the loss of Delhomme hurt, but they just never played well enough, at least, for their talent level. What’s the nod here? The defense still has enough talent to maintain a solid level of play. The nod is going offense. I thought tackle for a long time here, but in the end, the nod goes to a QB of the future, and the pick is Matt Ryan. A mildly interesting side note to me if this happens – Matt Ryan reminds me a bit of Jay Cutler, and Jay went 11th, and spent a year behind a Jake as well. I don’t see the Panthers moving up to snag a QB.

Carolina Panthers pick: QB Matt Ryan, Boston College

12. Baltimore Ravens

Changes need to be made, and it might start with Billick. The offense is a mess, and for a purported offensive guru, that’s not good (granted, the days when Billick was an offensive guru was about a decade ago … he really hasn’t had a offensive guru-ish (i.e. dynamic) Ravens offense (at least, none that I remember … ). I could still see a scenario where they sneak into the playoffs, but they really aren’t that good of a team to deserve it. What’s the call here? They’ll go with their board more times than not, but in terms of needs, one could argue QB, perhaps a LT if there is one they love. Defensively, I could see an edge guy, a ILB type, and a CB. I was thinking Gholston and Jenkins for the longest time, but at the end of the day, I think Ozzie takes a step back and goes with Brian Brohm. I’m not the biggest fan of Brian Brohm, but as I’ve consistently said, I think he’ll make a solid NFL QB. I just don’t see a dominant one. But from a value perspective, he’s probably solid value anywhere in the teens, despite my own opinions. Barring a Kyle Boller surprise down the stretch, they need a QB of the future.

Baltimore Ravens pick: QB Brian Brohm, Louisville

13. Denver Broncos

After a busy offseason last year, a lot of folks had high expectations, and they have been largely inconsistent. As with a lot of teams, I could still see a scenario that they make the playoffs, particularly since the AFC West hasn’t exactly been gangbusters this year (although San Diego could pull away). Anyhow, assuming they are here, what’s the nod? They could use some OL help. The run D needs a lot of work. I’m leaning defense here. First, is there a trade scenario that jumps out? I guess, with the QB’s of the board, a team could desire to bolt up for an OT to beat the Bears. Maybe a team falls in love with someone. At the end of the day, I’m going with another trade, which will likely lead to some comments from people. Sedrick Ellis had slipped a bit, and might be a tempting target for

Projected Trade:

Tampa Bay gets the 13th overall pick
Denver gets the 21st overall pick and the Buccaneers 2nd rounder

Denver can still address their needs at 21, and perhaps get better value. While TB could look at a lot of spots, a potentially dominant DT for the system may be too tempting to pass up.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers pick: DT Sedrick Ellis, Southern California

14. Chicago Bears

The interesting dynamic to watch with this Bears offseason is how pressured they are to win now. The leadership is likely to be back. As the whole world knows, the QB situation bears watching. OL needs help. Safety needs a playmaker. They could use a RB to push Benson (although guess is that they’ll address that in FA) and another WR. I think they have to address QB and OT before all else. QB value is off. I can’t see another QB pushing up here. Is there a trade? I sort of shot the bullet with the Buccaneers trade and don’t see one that stands out here for me. Thus, I’m making an OT pick. Which OT? Nod goes to Chris Williams, who has steadily moved up the boards. I’m actually not a huge fan of him but that said, he does have some intriguing LT potential. The thing with OT’s is that, once they move up at this point, it’ll take something really extreme to push them down (such as health).

Chicago Bears pick: OT Chris Williams, Vanderbilt

15. Philadelphia Eagles

An enigma of a team, as at times, they show a lot of flashes that they could play with anyone, and at other times, they look bad. It’ll be interesting to see what happens to Andy Reid. Guess is that he’ll come back, but who knows. Anyhow, what could they use? They’ve done a good job of adding depth in recent years. There really isn’t a safety here, so I’m leaning CB and Mike Jenkins. Jenkins does need to run, say, a 4.45, and also needs to show that the disorderly conduct thing isn’t an indicator of any other issues.

Philadelphia Eagles pick: CB Mike Jenkins, South Florida

16. Washington Redskins

It’ll be interesting to see if Gibbs returns. This team is close … does he walk away or does he give it one last go around? Initial indications were that this was it, but if they are close, could he opt for one last turn? Personnel wise, they have to be excited with Anthony Montgomery’s growth. Defensive end is still a concern. CB depth is needed. That said, they’ve cycled in a lot of guys at WR. I could, sadly, even see them get antsy and bolt up for a WR, but I think the nod could be WR. I don’t see a trade down that I like. Assuming Al Saunders is still around, the nod goes to Desean Jackson, who’s the best fit for the system. He could go higher, but I don’t see which team ahead would make that move.

Washington Redskins pick: WR Desean Jackson, California

17. Detroit Lions

I have them on the outskirts looking in relative to the playoffs, but that said, they could very well be in (or New Orleans). At times, they look real good. At other times, they look real, well, bad. But at the very least, they are headed the right direction. What do they do here? Offensively, I could see OL potentially. Defensively, I think they could still use a better DE. CB could probably use some help as well. A lot of people seem to have Vernon Gholston definitively pegged in as a 3-4 OLB. I think he can make a good 4-3 end with some work, and the system here could be a good fit for him.

Detroit Lions pick: DE Vernon Gholston, the Ohio State

18. New Orleans Saints

I have them on the outskirts looking in relative to the playoffs, but that said, they could very well be in (or Detroit). The loss to the Rams exhibited some holes, and I just wonder if they can be consistent enough down the stretch. Only time will tell. What do they do here? OL is a possibility. The run D has been better than I thought, although I still think they could use a DT upgrade if one is available. LB could use an upgrade, and CB could probably use another guy as well. What’s the call? I think that OL can be addressed in round 2, so I’m looking defense here. A guy like James Lauranaitis could bring the intensity that Payton wants. Keep in mind a couple years back, had Reggie Bush gone first, they supposedly wanted AJ Hawk at 2. James isn’t AJ, but he is an upgrade at a position they could use some upgrading.

New Orleans Saints pick: LB James Lauranaitis, the Ohio State

19. Seattle Seahawks

I really don’t think this team is all that good, but I have them sneaking into the playoffs. To be honest, I’m not real sure which area to go for them. I’m thinking OL or RB. Personally, I would go RB, but I don’t see that happening, as I think they may opt to add a RB later. Who? Jeff Otah has really climbed up. As I noted with Chris Williams, once an OT moves up this late, it’ll take something dramatic to bring them down, even though I’m not sold Otah is worth it here.

Seattle Seahawks pick: OT Jeff Otah, Pittsburgh

20. Atlanta Falcons f/ Buffalo Bills

I have the Bills on the outskirts looking in relative to the playoffs, but that said, they could very well be in (or Tennessee), with either Cleveland or Jacksonville out. I just looked at the schedule and didn’t like their chances as much as I liked Cleveland and Jacksvonille’s (considering Jax has a one game lead). Anyhow, this is Atlanta’s pick. Unfortunately, the top 3 QB’s are off, so I’ll probably hear it from people on this move. I just feel that, if they were offered that much, they might be tempted to move down. I mean, that’d be 6 picks in the first 3 rounds. Anyhow, they are here now, so what’s the call? Is there a QB that moves up here? Even if there is, the fact that there is 3 2nd rounders to work with may lead them to wait. DT value is lacking here. If DeAngelo Hall is moved, CB could be a thought (and if Hall is moved, they’d add another pick). Offensively, they could go RB or OL. I’m leaning RB here and going with Rashard Mendenhall as the workhorse back for Petrino.

Atlanta Falcons pick: RB Rashard Mendenahll, Illinois

21. Denver Broncos f/ Tampa Bay Buccaneers

I think Tampa Bay is a bit more consistent than New Orleans and I have them making the playoffs ahead of the Saints, but I could see them on the outside looking in as well. Anyhow, I made a swap earlier. Denver slides down and can address their defensive back 7 or add an OT. As tempting as I am to go OL, I think they opt for defense, and a LB like Erin Henderson could intrigue, as he could allow DJ Williams to move back outside. That said, they could also go with say, Keith Rivers and realign things in another manner.

Denver Broncos pick: LB Erin Henderson, Maryland

22. Arizona Cardinals

I’m so up and down on this team with my mocks. That said, they’ve gone up and down as well. I really like this team, but obviously, they need a healthy Kurt Warner. Whisenhunt has done a great job there, and I think they can edge out the Seahawks for the NFC West title. Anyhow, this is my order, so what’s up here? I could see them go a number of directions here. I’m going to make a pick that I’m not fond of. Calais Campbell could end up going higher, but he hasn’t had the season to deserve it. Could he push up? Perhaps. Just didn’t see it this time through. I thought CB, but didn’t like the value, and didn’t like the OT fits here.

Arizona Cardinals pick: DE Calais Campbell, Miami (Florida)

23. Tennessee Titans

I have them on the outskirts looking in relative to the playoffs, but that said, they could very well be in (or Buffalo), with either Cleveland or Jacksonville out. I gave the Jaguars the edge due to the win, and the Browns look to have an easier schedule, IMO. Anyhow, what do they do here? Their defense has been superb this year. They’ve slide Michael Griffin to safety, but CB isn’t really a consideration this high, I think. LB could be a thought, but that can probably wait, and DL depth can be found later. The run game has been stout, but they do need a big time WR to help in the passing game. They’ve collected a bunch of mid-rounders in recent years, so maybe it’s time to go for a WR early, to help Vince develop. A lot of intriguing options, but I’m going with Malcolm Kelly here this time around.

Tennessee Titans pick: WR Malcolm Kelly, Oklahoma

24. Dallas Cowboys f/ Cleveland Browns

The Browns have a nice schedule remaining, so I can see them squeezing into the playoffs. Boy … few expected that to begin the year. I expect them to, btw, keep Derek Anderson around for another year, and this may develop into a Brees/Rivers type situation. Anyhow, this pick is Dallas’. The Boys could go a number of directions with this pick. At this point, I’m thinking DL, WR, or CB. I don’t like this pick at all, as I’m not sold the player is worth it. But Kentwan Balmer really seems to be capturing folks imaginations these days (still not sure he’s a quality starter in the NFL) and could be a good fit for the scheme. WR values here and through the 2nd and 3rd really aren’t all that different. Same goes for CB values.

Dallas Cowboys pick: DL Kentwan Balmer, North Carolina

25. New York Giants

A lot of credit to the Giants. I really didn’t think they were all that good going into the year, but they’ve really stepped up. I could still see them look OL, but I think this pick is likely to go defense. And with Keith Rivers still on the board, that might be too tempting to pass up here, as he offers them the weakside backer that can cover.

New York Giants pick: LB Keith Rivers, Southern California

26. Jacksonville Jaguars

I really wasn’t sure about this team entering the year, but they stepped up along the way. Of course, they need Garrard back, as they have a tough schedule down the stretch. That said, I think they can pull it off and make the playoffs. Anyhow, what’s the call here? I think they go DE, and perhaps take a look at Chris Ellis.

Jacksonville Jaguars pick: DE Chris Ellis, Virginia Tech

27. San Diego Chargers

I was working some of the schedules, and I ended up seeing the Chargers really storm through. The win against Indy really helped. Who would’ve thunk they’d be anywhere near here after the way they started. Anyhow, tis my order. What’s the call? Without 2nd and 3rd rounders, I think they’ll look hard for a deal. WR’s have slipped, and I could see a team decide to bolt up to secure someone.

Projected Trade:

Minnesota gets the 27th overall
San Diego gets the 38th and Minnesota’s 2nd 3rd rounder (from Denver in the Marcus Thomas deal)

San Diego can address their needs later on in the draft just fine. Adding another pick in the first 3 rounds would be nice. Minnesota bolts up for a WR to grow with their young QB and RB. Who? The nod is to Early Doucet provided he’s healthy.

Minnesota Vikings pick: WR Early Doucet, Louisiana State

28. Pittsburgh Steelers

They’ve got a quality squad, and the beauty is that they’ve managed to do this while transitioning some of the pieces to get younger and adjust to a new HC. What’s the call here? A lot of options exist. LB could be a consideration. WR and CB could be thoughts. OL and a big back could be possibilities. I think there’s enough good options here that they may stay put. I’ll be mildly curious to the response on this one, but the nod is going with Gosder Cherilus.

Pittsburgh Steelers pick: OT Gosder Cherilus, Boston College

29. San Francisco 49ers f/ Indianapolis Colts

I think the Colts are the 2nd best team in the league, but I think Dallas and Packers have easier remaining schedules, so I see them with the better records, and tough to bet against the Patriots right now in regards to the Super Bowl. Anyhow, this is San Francisco’s pick. What happens with Mike Nolan will factor greatly into this decision here. That said, I’ll assume 3-4 defense for now.

Poor OL play has contributed greatly to their problems. That said, there’s some young pieces in place, so drafting someone this high is unnecessary unless they love someone. They could perhaps look WR. Defensively, DL talent could be sought, as could a pass rusher. What’s the call? I really like Dre Moore (I think I’ve used Moore and the Niners in 3 of my previous mocks), but not enough people seem to feel that he can make this push up. I think he can … but that’s me. Personally, I’d like to see them give Jason Hill a longer go at the WR spot. Ugh, I really want to go with Moore, but at this point, there’s usually some head of steam pushing him up. Well, after thinking about it, I’ll go Moore again, as I could see Dallas snapping him up, even though they added Balmer earlier already.

San Francisco 49ers pick: DL Dre Moore, Maryland

30. Dallas Cowboys

I gave the Packers the edge for now, based on their improved running game. But I could flip them again the next time. Anyhow, what now? While they could trade down, I don’t see it. They added a DE earlier, so they could look WR, CB here. I gave long thought in trying to find a trade here, but I didn’t see one that I liked. With the issues at corner this year, I’m going with Jack Ikegwuonu, but he has to show that the incident last year was an isolated situation.

Dallas Cowboys pick: CB Jack Ikegwuonu, Wisconsin

31. Green Bay Packers

If they actually have a run game with Ryan Grant now, they’ll be tough to beat, as that defense is good. We’ll see how they stack soon enough. Anyhow, what’s the call here? OL could get a look. CB could be a consideration. RB is a thought. I’ll go CB. I think a lot of junior CB’s may bolt as they see the weak senior class, and I could see Brandon Flowers being in that group.

Green Bay Packers: CB Brandon Flowers, Virginia Tech

32. New England Patriots (forfeited) – They be bad … but they don’t care. They had a top 5 pick to work with

2nd round (that said, just going straight down, no rotating since I’m too lazy to work out specifics)

33. New York Jets

They added a stud RB earlier. What now? A RT is a thought, but a potentially dynamic pass rushing fit like Quentin Groves may be too tempting.

New York Jets pick: OLB Quentin Groves, Auburn

34. Miami Dolphins

After adding a stud corner, what now? The lines are definitely considerations. An OT like Phillip Loadholt may be the raw material for Hudson Houck to mold.

Miami Dolphins pick: OT Phillip Loadholt, Oklahoma

35. San Francisco 49ers

After adding much needed DL talent, a pass rushing OLB could be a consideration. WR could be a thought as well. The nod goes to Shawn Crable as a potential fit.

San Francisco 49ers pick: OLB Shawn Crable, Michigan

36. St. Louis Rams

Jake Long should help steady the offense. What now? Nod turns to that defense, where a DE could be sought after. Georgia Tech’s Darrell Robertson has had a monster year so far and could be a consideration here.

St. Louis Rams pick: DE Darrell Robertson, Georgia Tech

37. Oakland Raiders

Could familiarity breed opportunity for Sam Baker? He certainly hasn’t had the season that many expected, and this might end up being a bit of a reach for him. The other thought is WR, but Lane knows Sam, so the nod went OT (along with the fact that there OL has issues).

Oakland Raiders pick: OT Sam Baker, Southern California

38. San Diego Chargers f/ Minnesota Vikings

Chargers moved down earlier. What now? I could see RB, OL as strong considerations. I didn’t forget about the RB’s … they just slid down a bit. I tried to make a case for someone to bolt up late first to grab another one, but didn’t like the options. The nod goes to a RB to replace Michael Turner and be groomed as Tomlinson’s long run replacement. The nod goes to Jonathan Stewart. That said, if he runs a mid-4.4 number, he’s likely long gone.

San Diego Chargers pick: RB Jonathan Stewart, Oregon

39. Atlanta Falcons

They added a workhorse running back earlier. What now? I could see a number of looks, ranging from OL to DL. But they have to get a QB of the future in there. The nod is to Dennis Dixon here. I could see them get antsy and perhaps move up to grab a QB as well.

Atlanta Falcons pick: QB Dennis Dixon, Oregon

40. Kansas City Chiefs

Despite adding Clady earlier, I could see another OL guy. I could also see them look CB, perhaps DT, perhaps another WR. Nod goes CB here, with Terrell Thomas getting the look.

Kansas City Chiefs pick: CB Terrell Thomas, Southern California

41. Atlanta Falcons f/ Houston Texans

Dixon and Mendenhall gives them a new beginning on offense. What now? I’m thinking CB or OL. Nod goes to a gamble on Tony Hills recovery.

Atlanta Falcons pick: OL Tony Hills, Texas

42. Cincinnati Bengals

They added an end earlier. A LB like Dan Connor may be too good to pass up here.

Cincinnati Bengals pick: LB Dan Connor, Penn State

43. Carolina Panthers

They got their QB of the future earlier. What now? I could see OL be a consideration. That said, a potential FS like Reggie Smith might make more sense, as the value for OL seems iffy.

Carolina Panthers pick: FS Reggie Smith, Oklahoma

44. Baltimore Ravens

They got their QB of the future earlier. What now? I’m thinking CB, and perhaps someone like Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.

Baltimore Ravens pick: CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Tennessee State

45. Denver Broncos

After adding a LB earlier, what now? OL and S could garner looks. A dynamic RB could be a thought. After thinking about it, I'm swapping Slaton and DeCoud's positioning. Slaton could be a dominant player in the scheme.

Denver Broncos pick: RB Steve Slaton, West Virginia

46. Chicago Bears

They got their OT. They have to address QB. The nod goes to big Joe Flacco. Thomas DeCoud and Jamar Adams could be thoughts, but QB, IMO, has to be addressed.

Chicago Bears pick: QB Joe Flacco, Delaware

47. Philadelphia Eagles

They added a CB earlier. What now? Perhaps a safety like Michigan’s Jamar Adams.

Philadelphia Eagles pick: S Jamar Adams, Michigan

48. Washington Redskins

They added a WR earlier. DE could garner a look here, as could CB and OL. Nod goes CB and Antoine Cason here.

Washington Redskins pick: CB Antoine Cason, Arizona

49. Detroit Lions

Gholston was an intriguing add earlier. CB and LB could be options here. So could OL. I’m going with Phillip Wheeler as a potential system fit.

Detroit Lions pick: LB Phillip Wheeler, Georgia Tech

50. New Orleans Saints

Added a key LB earlier. What now? Perhaps a DeJuan Tribble as a guy that can step in and help soon? That said, I go with Clemson’s Barry Richardson as a RT option.

New Orleans Saints pick: OT Barry Richardson, Clemson

51. Seattle Seahawks

Added some big OL help earlier. What now? I’m going with a RB to groom. Nod is to Kevin Smith.

Seattle Seahawks pick: RB Kevin Smith, Central Florida

52. Atlanta Falcons f/ Buffalo Bills

Hills/Dixon/Mendenhall really starts the offensive revamping. I’m thinking defense here, DL if there’s value, otherwise CB. Nod goes to the big Red Bryant.

Atlanta Falcons pick: DT Red Bryant, Texas A&M

53. Denver Broncos f/ Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Erin Henderson and Steve Slaton gives them two potentially dynamic talents. They could look S or OL here. I'll go with DeCoud still after the flip. They lack a 3rd rounder, and DeCoud may be a more pressing need.

Denver Broncos pick: S Thomas DeCoud, California

54. Arizona Cardinals

They added Calais Campbell earlier. What now? OL could draw consideration. I’m thinking FS or CB could be options as well. I lean CB here.

Arizona Cardinals pick: CB Charles Godfrey, Iowa

55. Tennessee Titans

They hopefully added a big time WR earlier. What now? For some reason, I’m thinking a defensive end like Lawrence Jackson could garner a look here.

Tennessee Titans pick: DE Lawrence Jackson, Southern Califonia

56. Cleveland Browns

Their defense needs some more pieces. They could use front 7 help. I think Maurice Murray is a quality talent who is a bit underrated. Could I have him a tad overrated? Perhaps, I fully acknowledge that. That said, he’s solid against the run, has gotten better pass rushing, and has athletic tools, along with experience in the 3-4.

Cleveland Browns pick: DL Maurice Murray, New Mexico State

57. New York Giants

CB or WR got the early thoughts here. Plaxi-lite? I think Sweed can play WR in the pros, unlike some recent big receivers that couldn’t motor enough.

New York Giants pick: WR Limas Sweed, Texas

58. Jacksonville Jaguars

After going end earlier, they could look WR here. Perhaps a target like Adarius Bowman?

Jacksonville Jaguars pick: WR Adarius Bowman, Oklahoma State

59. Miami Dolphins f/ San Diego Chargers

Loadholt and Jenkins are two intriguing talents. What now? DL help is a thought. LB is a possibility. WR has to be considered. DL value is iffy here. Actually, nod goes to TE.

Miami Dolphins pick: TE Martin Rucker, Missouri

60. Pittsburgh Steelers

After adding Cherilus, what now? WR could get a look. A big back if one is there. CB and LB could be possibilities, and DL talent can’t be ruled out. Perhaps someone like Ezra Butler or Beau Bell could get a look. I’ll lean Bell here.

Pittsburgh Steelers pick: LB Beau Bell, UNLV

61. Indianapolis Colts

What could they use? I wonder if someone like DeMario Pressley could be worth a gamble here, knowing that he probably won’t be around a round later.

Indianapolis Colts pick: DT DeMario Pressley, NC State

62. Dallas Cowboys

After adding DL and CB earlier, WR gets the look here. A couple weeks earlier, I had him going a couple rounds higher. Nod goes to Donnie Avery here.

Dallas Cowboys pick: WR Donnie Avery, Houston

63. Green Bay Packers

After adding a potential big time corner, what here? OL is a consideration. Perhaps MD’s Andrew Crumney? Eh, seems a tad high. Maybe Steve Justice then.

Green Bay Packers pick: OL Steve Justice, Wake Forest

64. New England Patriots

After adding a top corner, what’s next? An ILB to groom is a definite possibility. Tedy Bruschi was a defensive end in college. Ezra Butler was a former DL that moved to LB. I think his best pro spot might be as a 3-4 ILB. Reminds me quite a bit of Bruschi.

New England Patriots pick: ILB Ezra Butler, Nevada

Paranoidmoonduck
11-12-2007, 05:17 AM
Just so you know, the Raider's 2008 3rd round pick already belongs to the New England Patriots.

Overall, very nice work Toon.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 05:32 AM
ah, i completely forgot about that. hmm ... that'll change the dynamics of the situation, as I have a hard time seeing the Raiders give up the 1st and 2nd this year to move up, and the only other possibilities, on pure picks, would be something complex like the first and 4th this year, and maybe a 2nd and 3rd next year. Or a first this year and a first next year. I guess it could involve talent to balance things out ... but I don't really see anyone that the Patriots would want that the Raiders would likely be willing to give up. ah ... well, i'll adjust to it to more complex of the scenarios for now ...

skinzzfan25
11-12-2007, 05:36 AM
Don't like the first pick for the Redskins at all. The only reason we would be taking a WR is to get us a nice, tall, possession guy to help Campbell.

With Calais Campbell still on the board, I think we'd give him a shot.

I do like the Cason pick in the 2nd though.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 05:39 AM
I believe the Skins should go DE as well, but with Carter playing much better than last season, I could see them waiting on the position and looking at CB or WR because of the issues those two positions have dealt with. If Saunders is still around, I don't expect to see a nice, tall possession guy, as it doesn't fit the type of WR's he wants.

Cason is a nice fit. I'm not a big fan of Cason, but with the Skins playing a lot more cover 2, he works.

SSMiami
11-12-2007, 05:53 AM
Love the dolphins pick, i feel a quality cb will help improve the pass rush, somthing you dont here in miami these days coverage sack. The other picks look solid to me.

Jakey
11-12-2007, 06:25 AM
Completely agree with everything you said about the Steelers...I love the Cherilous pick in round 1. I agree that round 2 we will either go LB, DL, CB or WR...i don't mind Bell, but i think i would prefer Ezra Butler. Anyways, nice job. grade A-

Caddy
11-12-2007, 07:21 AM
I've never been a fan of trading up at the expense of losing other valuable picks and whilst the prospect of Ellis would be tough to pass up, I still think the Buc's would benefit more from that extra 2nd rounder.

Vikes99ej
11-12-2007, 09:05 AM
Very nice Vikings' picks. However, I'd almost want to see us go after Cherilius with that second first round pick. The offensive line has been a liability in some games this year, and eventually the right side going to need to be addressed.

Bills2083
11-12-2007, 09:14 AM
I dont think that the Bills should trade up in this draft. We have too many needs to waste picks (WR, LB, DT, CB, TE). Currently, WR is our #1 need. I know that Glenn Dorsey is an elite prospect, but our Run-D has been improving as of late. I'd rather stay put at #20 and select Keith Rivers. I'm not liking Keith Ellison too much, and when Pos returns next season, we'll have one of the best LB corps in the NFL.

In the second, I'd take Bowman. I like Bowman a lot, We need another good WR opposite of Evans. We have enough small, fast guys in Parrish, Price, and Reed. Bowman would be perfect for us, because he's big, fast and would be a good red-zone target.

Then, in the 3rd, I'd take a DT and a CB.

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-12-2007, 09:30 AM
I dont like the idea of us trading up at all especially without a 3rd rounder.But good picks.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 10:09 AM
I dont think that the Bills should trade up in this draft. We have too many needs to waste picks (WR, LB, DT, CB, TE). Currently, WR is our #1 need. I know that Glenn Dorsey is an elite prospect, but our Run-D has been improving as of late. I'd rather stay put at #20 and select Keith Rivers. I'm not liking Keith Ellison too much, and when Pos returns next season, we'll have one of the best LB corps in the NFL.

In the second, I'd take Bowman. I like Bowman a lot, We need another good WR opposite of Evans. We have enough small, fast guys in Parrish, Price, and Reed. Bowman would be perfect for us, because he's big, fast and would be a good red-zone target.

Then, in the 3rd, I'd take a DT and a CB.

I have a hard time seeing the Bills taking Bowman. As much as fans often talk about getting a different type of receiver in there, Bowman doesn't really fit in regards to how Fairchild lkes his receivers.

Finsfan79
11-12-2007, 10:10 AM
2. Miami Dolphins

One interesting school of thought that someone floated is that they are purposefully not playing John Beck yet so that they won’t have to draft a QB in the first. That way, there’s no chance of Beck failing bad enough to warrant definitively moving on. Hopefully that’s not the case, as that’d be a very warped thought process, and I don’t think they should draft a QB anyways. At some point, though, they will have to turn it over to Beck.

I have no idea why, but I have the feeling that the Fins will pull off a win, if not two, this year. There really isn’t any great reasoning behind this. Just a gut feeling. What do they do here? Well … McFadden’s off the board. There goes the one pick that I think actually makes sense for them this high in the draft, despite what the Fins fans have said so far. But it’s gone. Is there a team that trades up? I’m not sold. Who’s going to sell out here when they could deal up to 3, as I think the Patriots will look to move down as well? There would have to be someone that a team falls in love with, and it’s too early in the process to figure that out.

I’m making a pick here, and I don’t particularly like any of the options available. I’ll probably hear it from Dolphins fans again. To be honest, at the beginning of the year I wasn’t sold that he would be a top 10 pick. But I’ve slowly come around to it, and I think Malcolm Jenkins could establish himself as a top 5 value at the end of the day. With Jason Allen moved back to safety, Jenkins could be the stud CB they need, perhaps giving Capers a Woodson/Lake type tandem.

Miami Dolphins pick: CB Malcolm Jenkins, the Ohio State



I don’t see why the Jets are picking ahead of us personally. As we are a far worse team then them up and down the board to be completely honest (and it hurts to say that). But I really don’t care for the pick there. If the raiders are going to trade up for the 3rd pick for long then why not to the second pick for him? Miami can move back and get what they need just as well down there. This pick really makes little to no sense as he is not worth a top 5 pick let alone a top 2 pick for this CB. Sorry I just don’t see it specially with our defensive system depending on Pressure upon the QB >>> CBs.



34. Miami Dolphins

After adding a stud corner, what now? The lines are definitely considerations. An OT like Phillip Loadholt may be the raw material for Hudson Houck to mold.

Miami Dolphins pick: OT Phillip Loadholt, Oklahoma

That is fine for a Right Tackle, I think he will develop well when Houck gets his hands upon him. He has the raw tools we would look for.

59. Miami Dolphins f/ San Diego Chargers

Loadholt and Jenkins are two intriguing talents. What now? DL help is a thought. LB is a possibility. WR has to be considered. DL value is iffy here. Actually, nod goes to TE.

Miami Dolphins pick: TE Martin Rucker, Missouri

I would prefer us going to look at Bell or a secondary addition at this point in the draft. I really don’t think this is a good fit. Yes, he is a nice talent but still we have bigger needs.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 10:11 AM
Very nice Vikings' picks. However, I'd almost want to see us go after Cherilius with that second first round pick. The offensive line has been a liability in some games this year, and eventually the right side going to need to be addressed.

Interesting ... I was thinking that they could address the OL in the 3rd round, but then again, I guess it is fair to say that they've tried to find some guys in recent years and some haven't hit. That said, do you think that OL is a bigger need than WR in general, or is this more a case of Cherilus being someone you think is worth it?

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 10:14 AM
I dont like the idea of us trading up at all especially without a 3rd rounder.But good picks.

Here's a question (removing the fact that I had to adjust and the trade a bit too complex) - Could you see them making a move up for someone, though? That said, I'd be the first one to say that staying put might make more sense in that situation. I just thought Chris Long might be enough to tempt Al to make that move, particularly since I think I would've given Chris Long to the Rams had the Rams had the choice.

JCutlery
11-12-2007, 10:25 AM
It would be very, very difficult to pass on Sedrick Ellis from a Broncos' perspective. But, 3 players are better than 2, though I'd prefer to add at least one defensive lineman on our first day. Safety could wait until the 2nd day.

bearsfan_51
11-12-2007, 10:29 AM
Chris Williams and Joe Flaco? I think I'd stab my eyes out with a rusty nail.

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-12-2007, 10:45 AM
Here's a question (removing the fact that I had to adjust and the trade a bit too complex) - Could you see them making a move up for someone, though? That said, I'd be the first one to say that staying put might make more sense in that situation. I just thought Chris Long might be enough to tempt Al to make that move, particularly since I think I would've given Chris Long to the Rams had the Rams had the choice.
I guess it depends on FA.We do need a good NT.Before tommorow we were allowing 5 y/c.If theres somebody that Al really wants I could see them making a move.And I wouldnt see Kiffin making that much of an objection.Chris Long's a good pick.The trade I guess depends alot on how we do in FA.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 10:52 AM
Miami Dolphins pick: CB Malcolm Jenkins, the Ohio State

I donít see why the Jets are picking ahead of us personally. As we are a far worse team then them up and down the board to be completely honest (and it hurts to say that). But I really donít care for the pick there. If the raiders are going to trade up for the 3rd pick for long then why not to the second pick for him? Miami can move back and get what they need just as well down there. This pick really makes little to no sense as he is not worth a top 5 pick let alone a top 2 pick for this CB. Sorry I just donít see it specially with our defensive system depending on Pressure upon the QB >>> CBs.


34. Miami Dolphins

Miami Dolphins pick: OT Phillip Loadholt, Oklahoma

That is fine for a Right Tackle, I think he will develop well when Houck gets his hands upon him. He has the raw tools we would look for.

59. Miami Dolphins f/ San Diego Chargers

Miami Dolphins pick: TE Martin Rucker, Missouri

I would prefer us going to look at Bell or a secondary addition at this point in the draft. I really donít think this is a good fit. Yes, he is a nice talent but still we have bigger needs.

Starting backwards - Really, a ILB in the late 2nd? I wouldn't have thunk that (unless you are thinking of a different Bell than Beau Bell). Obviously, if you don't go DB earlier, then yes, I could see DB here as well. I just figured that Cameron ideally would involve the TE more and that a TE could be a nice safety valve in a run-oriented attack that it might be a thought considering the lack of receiving options for Beck on paper right now.

On Jenkins - I do think he is a top 10 talent. I don't ever group numerically down, as I go by groupings of 5, but I currently have Jenkins in my 2nd grouping of 5 (6-10), and I can easily see a scenario where he moves up to the top grouping (say, a low 4.4 time or better in the 40). So I really didn't have a problem with the value perspective.

As for the Raiders dealing up to 2 - That would cost them another 2nd in value ... and I can't see them dealing that much value to move up. I'll have to revisit the deal, because the initial incarnation forgot about the Patriots owning the Raiders 3rd already, and as such I had to adjust it into something complex that I don't see. My primary motivation in jumping them was due to the Rams, and I don't think they'd have any motivation in giving up that extra 2nd round value when they could stay put.

As for the pick in general, I figured it'd receive complaints. I still think the best pick for the Fins at the top of the draft is McFadden, with the 2nd best scenario being a trade down. After that, I don't particularly like any option available that much. I'm just not sold that taking a Glenn Dorsey fit gamble that all the Fins fans want at the 2nd overall spot. It's just too high in the draft to make such a gamble in my opinion. Maybe I'll come around to it at some point, but I think I might end up being more inclined to go Chris Long or OT there than Dorsey, particularly after I overhauled my rankings a bit (and I expect to see a couple OT's push up some more but I was wary with projecting them too much at this point). Once I had Jenkins as a decent value in that part of the draft, it made the decision for me.

But hey tis early, and it's just my take. Maybe they do take the Glenn Dorsey plunge. The one interesting small dynamic may be the impact of Travis Johnson on these situations (well, I guess the biggest dynamic is if Capers is still there). But Capers took a chance on Johnson, who while not as good as Dorsey at the same points, is a similar player and struggled to adjust to Capers system. Does it make it more likely for Capers to take a similar gamble again, or does the past experience with Travis Johnson make him wary (granted, Travis Johnson could project a bit better, relative to the "expected" physical dimensions) ... or does it have no relevancy at all?

As for the Jets ahead of the Dolphins, the reason was with the Jets/Bills/Ravens/Bengals remaining, I could see the Fins pulling off a win, or two (not saying they will win any of them, but the Bengals game may be a throw away game at that point for Cincinnati), whereas the Dolphins game is the only one that I think the Jets have a decent chance at, although maybe the Chiefs game to end the year but I like the Chiefs D enough. Certainly debatable, and the one thing I probably should've done is check the tiebreaker scenarios and how they might work out, which I didn't consider when I went through this.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 10:52 AM
It would be very, very difficult to pass on Sedrick Ellis from a Broncos' perspective. But, 3 players are better than 2, though I'd prefer to add at least one defensive lineman on our first day. Safety could wait until the 2nd day.

I was just thinkinig that with Marcus Thomas looking good, they might not opt to go the DT route that high. I did briefly think Ellis, but I thought THomas had been playing much better?

Bills2083
11-12-2007, 10:56 AM
I have a hard time seeing the Bills taking Bowman. As much as fans often talk about getting a different type of receiver in there, Bowman doesn't really fit in regards to how Fairchild lkes his receivers.

I agree with how he does not fit Fairchild's system, but I really want him to make an exception this year. I really like Bowman and Kelly. The small, speedy WR plan isn't working out too much for us. We need that red-zone target, and we dont have one. Royal and Gaines, our TEs, drop too many passes.

What about this?...

1st - Early Doucet - He fits our system
2nd - DeMario Pressley or Red Bryant
3rd - LB
3rd - CB (these can switch depending on who's available)

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 10:59 AM
Chris Williams and Joe Flaco? I think I'd stab my eyes out with a rusty nail.

I will say that I think Chris Williams is, as of now, someone that deserves first round consideration, and barring something drastic, I have a hard time seeing him slip. Usually when OT's are still climbing at this point, it'd take something drastic to really knock them off. With Baker really falling down a bit, along with Cherilus being exposed as a poor LT fit, and with Clady/3 QB's off the board along with safety options not likely there, I didn't really see any other consideration that made a lot of sense. I will say that it is definitely a bit of a projection as of this moment in time.

As for Flacco, I think he is a 2nd/3rd round grade at this moment, and I was debating Flacco, Johnson, or Brennan for that 5th QB spot. I lean Flacco as of now, but I could see Johnson or Brennan there. I guess safety would be a consideration there as well, but I've got a hard time seeing us address safety before QB.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 11:01 AM
I agree with how he does not fit Fairchild's system, but I really want him to make an exception this year. I really like Bowman and Kelly. The small, speedy WR plan isn't working out too much for us. We need that red-zone target, and we dont have one. Royal and Gaines, our TEs, drop too many passes.

What about this?...

1st - Early Doucet - He fits our system
2nd - DeMario Pressley or Red Bryant
3rd - LB
3rd - CB (these can switch depending on who's available)

Sure, that could make a lot of sense if you stay put, assuming that Doucet and Pressley pass their medicals enough. I probably couldn't see Bryant there as I don't think he moves well enough for what you guys want. One other thought would be to stay put and make a more limited strike up to snatch Sedrick Ellis.

Jakey
11-12-2007, 11:01 AM
Do you rate Bell higher than Ezra Butler...or is he just a better fit for the Steelers scheme??? Thanks.

I also believe Chris Williams is LT material...so i wouldnt mind taking him in the 1st at all!

bearsfan_51
11-12-2007, 11:05 AM
I will say that I think Chris Williams is, as of now, someone that deserves first round consideration, and barring something drastic, I have a hard time seeing him slip. Usually when OT's are still climbing at this point, it'd take something drastic to really knock them off. With Baker really falling down a bit, along with Cherilus being exposed as a poor LT fit, and with Clady/3 QB's off the board along with safety options not likely there, I didn't really see any other consideration that made a lot of sense. I will say that it is definitely a bit of a projection as of this moment in time.

As for Flacco, I think he is a 2nd/3rd round grade at this moment, and I was debating Flacco, Johnson, or Brennan for that 5th QB spot. I lean Flacco as of now, but I could see Johnson or Brennan there. I guess safety would be a consideration there as well, but I've got a hard time seeing us address safety before QB.
I'm actually curious as to why you think Baker will fall that far. He hasn't had the season most have expected, but this is the first I've heard of him from anyone outside the top 20, let alone being a reach in the early 2nd. I may be in the minority here but I would take Desean Jackson there depending on the Berrian situation. Of course we would also have to draft a QB that could utilize Jackson (or keep Grossman for another trial run) but the talent would be hard to pass up if our alternative is Williams, who personally I wouldn't touch anywhere in the 1st round.

Flaco is an interesting choice, and it is a bit curious why he hasn't picked up more momentum, but I would take Henne, Ainge, Brennan, or Johnson ahead of him. Considering that we will be counting on our next QB pick to be "the guy" I am very lenient about putting that in the hands of a guy from Delaware, especially when Johnson has a higher stock by all accounts.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 11:06 AM
Do you rate Bell higher than Ezra Butler...or is he just a better fit for the Steelers scheme??? Thanks.

I also believe Chris Williams is LT material...so i wouldnt mind taking him in the 1st at all!

Yes, I like Bell a bit better than Ezra Butler. I'm not sure which one would be better for you guys ... part of me wants to say Butler, but I think they are similar players. I think who ends up graded higher will depend on their 40 times.

Yung Flippa
11-12-2007, 11:11 AM
I don't really like Brian Brohm very much, I'd rather have Calis Campbell iif Terell Suggs leaves. I think that if Troy Smith plays, he can show the coaching staff th potential he has and they can keep away from drafting a quarterback. In the 2nd round, I like Cason much better. But I wouldn't complain about getting Rodgers-Cromartie.

Billingsley26
11-12-2007, 11:21 AM
I really dont see the Bills giving that much up to get Glenn Dorsey. Marv Levy vaules his draft picks more than he does money under the salary cap. There is no way Buffalo makes a deal on draft day, unless they are gaining more picks.
I think in round one we go with a guy like Malcom Kelly or Adarious Bowman or Desean Jackson. However, with Roscoe Parrish, I highly doubt we would draft Jackson.

I am now sold on two other names, which makes me believe we do not need to draft a LB in round one. Ben Moffit and J Leman. Neither will be round 1 material, and I think that if we need anotehr LB, we could put Pos back outdie, and draft one of these. At the same time, Digorgio has played extremely well, and maybe that warrants him strong consideration for the spot next year, and maybe Marv feels we dont need to draft a LB on day 1.

bearsfan_51
11-12-2007, 11:24 AM
I really dont see the Bills giving that much up to get Glenn Dorsey. Marv Levy vaules his draft picks more than he does money under the salary cap. There is no way Buffalo makes a deal on draft day, unless they are gaining more picks.
Buffalo traded into the first round like 2 years ago dude.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 11:28 AM
I'm actually curious as to why you think Baker will fall that far. He hasn't had the season most have expected, but this is the first I've heard of him from anyone outside the top 20, let alone being a reach in the early 2nd. I may be in the minority here but I would take Desean Jackson there depending on the Berrian situation. Of course we would also have to draft a QB that could utilize Jackson (or keep Grossman for another trial run) but the talent would be hard to pass up if our alternative is Williams, who personally I wouldn't touch anywhere in the 1st round.

Flaco is an interesting choice, and it is a bit curious why he hasn't picked up more momentum, but I would take Henne, Ainge, Brennan, or Johnson ahead of him. Considering that we will be counting on our next QB pick to be "the guy" I am very lenient about putting that in the hands of a guy from Delaware, especially when Johnson has a higher stock by all accounts.

I'll be the first to say I didn't really give Desean Jackson much thought for us, so I'll ponder that again whenever I reponder things. I just have a hard time going WR there particularly when Desean Jackson hasn't exactly had the dominant year people expected. If I did ponder WR, I half think that I might consider Early Doucet there assuming he passed his medicals. The difference between Jackson and, say, Douglas/Avery, isn't really all that much.

I'm not really a fan of Chris Williams either, but I think, as of now, my worst case scenario would have him going early 2nd, assuming a glaring issue doesn't come up (health or character). I think he's gathered enough momentum that it's hard for me to see him slip too far at this stage.

I actually was a big fan of Baker coming into the year, but for a guy his size, he doesn't actually move as well as some would think, and with so many OT's climbing up, and with so many OT's having better upsides, I just wonder if Baker may get passed. Add in the fact that he isn't exactly the most technically sound OT out there. Maybe I'm being a tad too harsh on his value. I'll try to pay attention down the stretch. That said, while I still think, with some molding, Baker could be a solid LT, I wonder if he's a guy that's better off inside as a guard.

As for QB's, I could see Johnson/Brennan in that spot, so no arguments there. I really like Ainge's potential, but I really wonder if he's more, say, Chris Simms-esque (that is, a guy who looks the part, but if he develops, it'll take time). I was looking at some Ainge stuff recently, and I think he needs some mechanical fine tuning. My bigger concern was that, it seems often that his read responsibilities are limited, and that when extra read responsibilities are needed, he becomes a bit inconsistent. I can see Ainge working his way back up there, as he looks the part, but I think the other three are a notch ahead right now.

As for Henne, I've just never been a fan. Maybe my biases are coming into play, but outside of a brief moment when I had him as a 2nd rounder, I've largely had Henne as a midround option and haven't really given him much thought there. He actually reminds me a bit of Kyle Orton.
_______________

One general side note - I still think this is one of the worst first rounds in respect to value in recent memory, perhaps worse than 2005. I really count maybe a dozen guys that I really feel confident in saying that they are lock stock first round talents.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 11:31 AM
I don't really like Brian Brohm very much, I'd rather have Calis Campbell iif Terell Suggs leaves. I think that if Troy Smith plays, he can show the coaching staff th potential he has and they can keep away from drafting a quarterback. In the 2nd round, I like Cason much better. But I wouldn't complain about getting Rodgers-Cromartie.

I don't like Brohm either. I've spent a long time (relatively speaking of course) debating whether or not he's more Leinart or more Quinn/Rodgers in terms of draft value. At the end of the day, while I don't like Brohm, I don't see him falling too much, particularly in a weak draft. There are a lot of positives about Brohm, and he's got a relatively low bust factor, in my opinion. As intriguing as Troy Smith might be, I don't think he's going to prevent them from taking a QB if there is someone in the first round that they like.

As for Cason vs. Rodgers-Cromartie, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you guys play a lot more man? That's why I leaned DRC there.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 11:37 AM
I really dont see the Bills giving that much up to get Glenn Dorsey. Marv Levy vaules his draft picks more than he does money under the salary cap. There is no way Buffalo makes a deal on draft day, unless they are gaining more picks.
I think in round one we go with a guy like Malcom Kelly or Adarious Bowman or Desean Jackson. However, with Roscoe Parrish, I highly doubt we would draft Jackson.

I am now sold on two other names, which makes me believe we do not need to draft a LB in round one. Ben Moffit and J Leman. Neither will be round 1 material, and I think that if we need anotehr LB, we could put Pos back outdie, and draft one of these. At the same time, Digorgio has played extremely well, and maybe that warrants him strong consideration for the spot next year, and maybe Marv feels we dont need to draft a LB on day 1.

I don't think the Bills need to draft a LB either, although I could see it happen.

As bf has noted, you guys did trade into round 1 with us (the Bears) a couple years ago. No problem with the critiquing the deal, though. I just wonder if they would get excited about landing an impact DT for the scheme, particularly a guy that slipped a bit in this go around, considering that, even though McCargo has played better, it's questionable if he can develop into that impact DT. That said, another option might be a targeted move for a Sedrick Ellis if they went DT.

As for WR, I would think Doucet and Jackson would be the two that might garner consideration. In some respects, Doucet reminds me of a less polished Lee Evans. I'm just not sure Bowman or Kelly are fits, and I also am not sure Bowman is value there.

Anyhow, I'll revisit the Bills in the next go around.

thebow305
11-12-2007, 11:39 AM
We will not take a cornerback with the number 2 overall pick. That is just ********, and was a wasted effort on your behalf. I would rather take Loadholt there and Reggie Smith there in the second. You have some people way out of place here, and even though it is still very early, this doesn't look very accurate at all.

thebow305
11-12-2007, 11:40 AM
We will not take a cornerback with the number 2 overall pick. That is just stupid, and was a wasted effort on your behalf. I would rather take Loadholt there and Reggie Smith there in the second. You have some people way out of place here, and even though it is still very early, this doesn't look very accurate at all.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 11:41 AM
We will not take a cornerback with the number 2 overall pick. That is just ********, and was a wasted effort on your behalf. I would rather take Loadholt there and Reggie Smith there in the second. You have some people way out of place here, and even though it is still very early, this doesn't look very accurate at all.

Okay, leaving the Dolphins pick alone ...

Who's out of place at this early stage? I don't see anyone that I feel is dramatically out of place. Yes, I always make some projections with my mocks, but I don't see any one single player that I think is dramatically out of place, so I am curious who you are referencing.

Borat
11-12-2007, 11:44 AM
Perfect Niners draft. That's exactly how I have the Niners mock going. Good work Toon.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 11:49 AM
Let me take a stab at some names you might throw out -

a) Calais Campbell - For all the talk about his physical upside ... he hasn't exactly had the type of season that makes me think a dominant combine will necessarily slide him up. I think most people are looking at him as a mid-first now. Perhaps I have him on the low end of the mid-first range, and maybe a couple teams (Washington is a possibility) nabs him. But at this point in time, I'm hard pressed to think that he'll be able to nab a top 5 status, as you need a level of productivity and consistency to merit that. That said, I will end with what I always say - all it takes is one team.

b) OT's - I imagine some comments will come on the OT's. Williams and Otah have both pushed into first round consideration status for many folks, and the reality is, at this late of a stage, if OT's are pushing up for consideration, the chances of them falling dramatically are a bit slim. If there was a big reach in this draft, it would be my own pick for my own team (Bears) and Chris Williams, as I could see him ranging from mid-first to early 2nd. I guess conversely, you might think Baker/Cherilus are low. But Cherilus really has been exposed down the stretch, and in Baker's case, I don't think he's had the type of season as of now to warrant anything better than late first consideration, even though I am a fan.

c) CB's - Talib and Jenkins. Both guys have skyrocketed. Sometimes, in Talib's case, we get so stuck on 40 times. I will say that he has to run a 4.5 number or better, but he is a player. Keep in mind that some people had Antrel Rolle timed closer to a 4.55 (some had him closer to 4.45). As for Jenkins case, he's long been the top corner, and I think he's earned top 10 status, and potentially could move higher with an elite time. There really isn't much, on paper, that Jenkins can't do.

d) RB - Mendenhall. I could see some critiques there, but I have no idea why. He's a powerful back that has good burst.

I will end with, at the end of the day, all it takes is one team, and for many positions, a lot of fluidity remains. Add in this being one of the worst first rounds in recent memory, and I don't think we'll really get a clear picture of anything until February/March, as things start to shake out a bit.

Vikes99ej
11-12-2007, 11:51 AM
Interesting ... I was thinking that they could address the OL in the 3rd round, but then again, I guess it is fair to say that they've tried to find some guys in recent years and some haven't hit. That said, do you think that OL is a bigger need than WR in general, or is this more a case of Cherilus being someone you think is worth it?

I think Cherilius would be worth it. We desperately need some stability on the right side of the line, whether it be guard or tackle.

Damix
11-12-2007, 12:36 PM
I don't see too much reasoning behind a WR for the Giants. (Great first pick though)

a 3rd year in a row we take a WR? I don't think that fits. Plaxico is fimly entrenched as the #1 and even if Toomer retires we have Smith to step into the #2 and I doubt we've given up on Sinorice as a #3 yet. Also Anthony Mix is a player the team still really likes.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 12:50 PM
Hmm ... was under the impression that Sinorice was really on the outs. I wasn't a big fan of going CB at that point, but I'll revisit that. I sped by the 2nd round.

bearsfan_51
11-12-2007, 12:51 PM
Hmm ... was under the impression that Sinorice was really on the outs.
I've heard from other Giants fans that Moss is all but done in New York, so I wouldn't assume just yet that you're wrong.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 01:20 PM
In regards to Denver, I think the better value, in hindsight, would be Slaton then DeCoud. I could probably make that switch straight and feel comfortable about the picks in between (that is, DeCoud not going in b/w). Actually, I'll make that switch in the mock.

I am growing a bit more fond of DeCoud. He shows solid range, and yet is solid in run support at the same time, IMO. That said, position was a definitely a factor. Just not a lot of day 1 safeties that I really like, especially guys with range, and you guys lack a 3rd rounder anyways. That said, if there's a good OT value, that would garner consideration.

HoopsDemon12
11-12-2007, 01:31 PM
I dont think that the Bills should trade up in this draft. We have too many needs to waste picks (WR, LB, DT, CB, TE). Currently, WR is our #1 need. I know that Glenn Dorsey is an elite prospect, but our Run-D has been improving as of late. I'd rather stay put at #20 and select Keith Rivers. I'm not liking Keith Ellison too much, and when Pos returns next season, we'll have one of the best LB corps in the NFL.

In the second, I'd take Bowman. I like Bowman a lot, We need another good WR opposite of Evans. We have enough small, fast guys in Parrish, Price, and Reed. Bowman would be perfect for us, because he's big, fast and would be a good red-zone target.

Then, in the 3rd, I'd take a DT and a CB.

Yes i agree with the above post... but i mean its hard to argue wiht a player liek dorsey.. but ya we just have to many needs to give up that many picks for a single player

Geo
11-12-2007, 01:54 PM
Nice job as always, toony. Lot to digest there, some interesting picks.

Re: the Colts, I'd take the chance on Pressley too, despite him not being able to stay healthy. Not sure about injury-prone players, but the Colts have drafted injured players before - Bob Sanders (2004) and Tyjuan Hagler (2005) come to mind as recent examples - if the doctors give the okay. I actually feel good about the Colts' defensive tackle depth, but Pressley's potentially great value for a late second round pick and Anthony McFarland is signed through 2008.

Personally, tight ends Martin Rucker or maybe John Carlson are drawing my interest there. All three tight ends on the roster are unrestricted free agents after this season, including Dallas Clark. And the Colts need to upgrade at that position, honestly (other than Clark and eventually in place of Clark).

neko4
11-12-2007, 01:58 PM
FOR Green Bay
Nice first, im abit afraid that Grant might be Gado in disguise but for right now he is our feature back.
Dont like the 2nd. Too much youth at the line to draft one that early IMO. Next year should be the deciding year for Spitz and Colledge. I wouldnt mind a LB there. Poppinga is straight doo-doo!

Xiomera
11-12-2007, 02:36 PM
Toon,

I am not really a fan of the Gholston to Detroit pick. I think Defensive End has become a lesser need this season. Dewayne White has proven to be the real deal, and guys like Jared DeVries and Corey Smith, while not big names, have been very steady. Kalimba is healthy again now too. DE is a lesser need than CB, OT, SLB, and MLB.

Who else did you consider for Detroit? I am of the opinion that OT or SLB are our biggest needs at this point.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 02:58 PM
Toon,

I am not really a fan of the Gholston to Detroit pick. I think Defensive End has become a lesser need this season. Dewayne White has proven to be the real deal, and guys like Jared DeVries and Corey Smith, while not big names, have been very steady. Kalimba is healthy again now too. DE is a lesser need than CB, OT, SLB, and MLB.

Who else did you consider for Detroit? I am of the opinion that OT or SLB are our biggest needs at this point.


You know, I think I got so one track minded there ... and I completely forgot that Edwards signed for a 5 year deal. I still think that you guys should add an end, but that's something I'll have to relook. While there's been a lot of sacks, that only tells part of the story, as teams are piercing the D for 69.1% on passes and DeVries/Smith/Alama-Francis aren't exactly top edge threats.

That said, after realizing Edwards contract right now, DE will come sliding down a lot. My other initial thought was CB there, but with the top 3 CB's off the board ... hmm. I guess looking on the board at that point. Not sure I see any of the OT's remaining as options for you guys there. Maybe I'd go LB then CB/OT in the 2nd.

I'm thinking I'll perhaps take a look over things midweek (particularly if the Niners upset the Seahawks tonight, but perhaps anyways).

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 03:01 PM
Nice job as always, toony. Lot to digest there, some interesting picks.

Re: the Colts, I'd take the chance on Pressley too, despite him not being able to stay healthy. Not sure about injury-prone players, but the Colts have drafted injured players before - Bob Sanders (2004) and Tyjuan Hagler (2005) come to mind as recent examples - if the doctors give the okay. I actually feel good about the Colts' defensive tackle depth, but Pressley's potentially great value for a late second round pick and Anthony McFarland is signed through 2008.

Personally, tight ends Martin Rucker or maybe John Carlson are drawing my interest there. All three tight ends on the roster are unrestricted free agents after this season, including Dallas Clark. And the Colts need to upgrade at that position, honestly (other than Clark and eventually in place of Clark).

I had briefly given TE a thought, I just figured that Pressley may be tempting and TE value is probably fine in the late 3rd.

Xiomera
11-12-2007, 03:21 PM
You know, I think I got so one track minded there ... and I completely forgot that Edwards signed for a 5 year deal. I still think that you guys should add an end, but that's something I'll have to relook. While there's been a lot of sacks, that only tells part of the story, as teams are piercing the D for 69.1% on passes and DeVries/Smith/Alama-Francis aren't exactly top edge threats.

That said, after realizing Edwards contract right now, DE will come sliding down a lot. My other initial thought was CB there, but with the top 3 CB's off the board ... hmm. I guess looking on the board at that point. Not sure I see any of the OT's remaining as options for you guys there. Maybe I'd go LB then CB/OT in the 2nd.

I'm thinking I'll perhaps take a look over things midweek (particularly if the Niners upset the Seahawks tonight, but perhaps anyways).

Which Linebacker fits our scheme the best, do you think? Do you see SLB or MLB as a bigger need? Boss Bailey isn't gonna return and they have been reluctant to give Alex Lewis any significant time as an alternative. Paris Lenon has been unspectacular but solid, I suppose. Lehman has been a bit of a surprise, but he is pretty one-dimensional.

bearsfan_51
11-12-2007, 03:35 PM
Which Linebacker fits our scheme the best, do you think? Do you see SLB or MLB as a bigger need? Boss Bailey isn't gonna return and they have been reluctant to give Alex Lewis any significant time as an alternative. Paris Lenon has been unspectacular but solid, I suppose. Lehman has been a bit of a surprise, but he is pretty one-dimensional.

I can't imagine a scenario where SLB would be a bigger need than MLB assuming that both positions are relatively weak. You can get a 3rd or 4th round player to fill SLB nicely (or a guy you picked up on waivers in the case of the Bears) but the MLB usually requires the athleticism and speed that likely won't be around later in the draft.

GB12
11-12-2007, 03:56 PM
FOR Green Bay
Nice first, im abit afraid that Grant might be Gado in disguise but for right now he is our feature back.
Dont like the 2nd. Too much youth at the line to draft one that early IMO. Next year should be the deciding year for Spitz and Colledge. I wouldnt mind a LB there. Poppinga is straight doo-doo!
Grant is completely different from Gado. Gado had nothing. He didn't have good speed, power, or vision. How he did so well I'll never find out. Grant runs hard. He doesn't dance around in the backfield, he finds the hole and hits it. Once he breaks through the hole he can make moves in the open field and break tackles. Also Gado played with a much better line. Everyone before him had success. Green, Davenport, and Fisher all ran well before they got hurt. It's the exact opposite this year.It's still too early to tell if he's the answer but he's no Samkon Gado.

I agree with not taking an OL for the same reasons. I'm not so sure we'll even take one at all. Thompson seems content with the guys we have and letting them develop. I do however completely disagree with taking a LB. Poppinga is fine. He's not a big play maker, but we have Hawk and Barnett for that. His pass coverage is getting better and he's good in run support. We've also been seeing more blitzing from and while I don't think he has a sack he's put good pressure on. Covering the opponents tightends has been a problem for us, but that's not all on him. Bigby has given up just as much or more and Hawk's been guilty on giving up catches too. I'd take a safety before a LB.

xooberon
11-12-2007, 03:58 PM
great 1st round for the panthers. safety's not really that big a need anymore though. we need a ZBS OT, a d lineman or a LB in the 2nd.

Geo
11-12-2007, 04:05 PM
Not to derail ...

Grant runs hard. He doesn't dance around in the backfield, he finds the hole and hits it. Once he breaks through the hole he can make moves in the open field and break tackles.
You know, I'm feeling the same about Grant. I like him in the offense, I think he can continue to do well and give them the back they were searching for.

GB12
11-12-2007, 04:16 PM
Oh, I forgot to ask. If you had the Packers and Cowboys switched would they have the same picks? You have both of them taking CBs but would you still give Green Bay Flowers and Dallas Ike? I think Jack Ikegwuonu could take over for Harris when he's done and let us keep playing bump and run coverage. I think he could really fit in well for any scheme, but there aren't a whole lot of guys that can effectively play the way we use Woodson and Harris.

scottyboy
11-12-2007, 04:21 PM
Sinorice Moss isnt "on the way out" for the Giants. He was hurt last year and is getting a bit more involved in the O now. He's finally healthy, so this is kind of like his rookie year. CB/Safety are bigger needs in the 2nd, but honestly, i wouldnt be upset at all with Sweed, i just dont see it happening.

And i love the 1st pick. no complaints there at all.

neko4
11-12-2007, 04:22 PM
Grant is completely different from Gado. Gado had nothing. He didn't have good speed, power, or vision. How he did so well I'll never find out. Grant runs hard. He doesn't dance around in the backfield, he finds the hole and hits it. Once he breaks through the hole he can make moves in the open field and break tackles. Also Gado played with a much better line. Everyone before him had success. Green, Davenport, and Fisher all ran well before they got hurt. It's the exact opposite this year.It's still too early to tell if he's the answer but he's no Samkon Gado.

I agree with not taking an OL for the same reasons. I'm not so sure we'll even take one at all. Thompson seems content with the guys we have and letting them develop. I do however completely disagree with taking a LB. Poppinga is fine. He's not a big play maker, but we have Hawk and Barnett for that. His pass coverage is getting better and he's good in run support. We've also been seeing more blitzing from and while I don't think he has a sack he's put good pressure on. Covering the opponents tightends has been a problem for us, but that's not all on him. Bigby has given up just as much or more and Hawk's been guilty on giving up catches too. I'd take a safety before a LB.


Thanks for that info on Gado-Grant comparison. I always thought he was pretty fast. Guess not. Poppinga has gotten a bit better, but I just wanna see improvement or atleast competiton.

Chucky
11-12-2007, 04:40 PM
I really dont think it is worth it for the bucs to make that trade. They would be much better off with a combination of calais campbell and Demarrio Pressley than with sed ellis. I would also prefer Desean for the bucs if they were to trade up

TitanHope
11-12-2007, 04:46 PM
Malcolm Kelly and Lawrence Jackson would be excellent for the Titans. Martin Rucker would also be a welcomed alternate pick in the 2nd RD also. Nice job.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 05:26 PM
Which Linebacker fits our scheme the best, do you think? Do you see SLB or MLB as a bigger need? Boss Bailey isn't gonna return and they have been reluctant to give Alex Lewis any significant time as an alternative. Paris Lenon has been unspectacular but solid, I suppose. Lehman has been a bit of a surprise, but he is pretty one-dimensional.

To be honest, I'll have to see how things get reworked. My initial feeling would be someone like Dan Connor, but I think he can be had later. I certainly don't think he's a 17th overall talent. If I picked a LB there right now, my initial inclination would be Erin Henderson or Keith Rivers. Probably Henderson. I don't really feel Lauranaitis there ... although I guess it is a possibility. That said, I'd really have to go over everything again. I have to rethink the thing anyways, as I screwed up the initial Patriots/Raiders deal and had to put something that's probably a bit too complex to happen as a substitute for now as I wasn't going to redo it right after I made the mock

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 05:29 PM
haven't actually seen him play, so i was curious if there was something in his skill set that meshed... at this early stage, i watch the positions closer than the actual players either way, so i'm happy.

for slaton, otoh, do you see him contributing in an offense in which the ZBS is fairly clearly beginning to fail? once lepsis and nalen retire (as soon as this off-season, at this rate), would slaton have any value here in your opinion? i haven't been able to catch enough west virginia games this season to make up my mind, although i did love slaton last season. i'm just not sure that what i remember would fit in well in denver in the future...

Hmm ... haven't been following close enough. But is Shanahan planning to move away from the ZBS? I always figured that he'd just go with what he had, and try and find the pieces for it. Adding some like Giancomo or Duane Brown could help prepare for the future.

Now, that said, I guess the question is whether or not Slaton can fit into other systems. I think he can, but he'll have to bulk up a bit (akin to what Portis had to do when he moved to DC ... although I don't think Slaton can bulk up as much as Portis did). Slaton's a good runner ... I'm just not sure he's a first rounder, although some may feel that way. I think he can adapt, but it's also a situation where having a solid backup to go with him probably would be necessary.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 05:34 PM
You know who I would compare Grant to somewhat? I think he can be a Olandis Gary type fit for the system.

Btw, I do want to reiterate that I really did speed through the 2nd round. I mean, not saying I didn't like my picks. There's probably some things I would change, though.

In regards to the Panthers, I'm not sure DL value there makes sense, and I did give consideration to OT's, but I didn't see a fit. Admittedly, I wasn't really considering LB at that point. Can I ask why LB, with Beason and Davis? While Chris Harris has been real solid for you guys, I do think that a free safety upgrade is still a need, partly due to Harris' limitations in coverage.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 05:36 PM
Oh, I forgot to ask. If you had the Packers and Cowboys switched would they have the same picks? You have both of them taking CBs but would you still give Green Bay Flowers and Dallas Ike? I think Jack Ikegwuonu could take over for Harris when he's done and let us keep playing bump and run coverage. I think he could really fit in well for any scheme, but there aren't a whole lot of guys that can effectively play the way we use Woodson and Harris.

If they switched, my initial inclination would be to slide Ikegwuonu with the Packers. Not sure what I'd do with the Cowboys. Flowers, DRC, and Terrell Thomas could be possibilities.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 05:37 PM
Sinorice Moss isnt "on the way out" for the Giants. He was hurt last year and is getting a bit more involved in the O now. He's finally healthy, so this is kind of like his rookie year. CB/Safety are bigger needs in the 2nd, but honestly, i wouldnt be upset at all with Sweed, i just dont see it happening.

And i love the 1st pick. no complaints there at all.

Sorry that was a typo. Was in a rush. I meant to say that I thought Sinorice was on the outs with the Giants, not on the way out.

Edit: Wait ... I said he was on the outs. I didn't say he was "on the way out".

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 05:40 PM
I really dont think it is worth it for the bucs to make that trade. They would be much better off with a combination of calais campbell and Demarrio Pressley than with sed ellis. I would also prefer Desean for the bucs if they were to trade up

I can't really see Calais getting the nod there if they stayed put and he was available. If they stayed put, I probably would've gone a WR, perhaps Early Doucet who somewhat reminds me of Lee Evans, who Gruden supposedly loved a few years back.

neko4
11-12-2007, 05:42 PM
You know who I would compare Grant to somewhat? I think he can be a Olandis Gary type fit for the system.


Olandis to Grant?
Olandis? I havent seen him in awhile
Explain please?
I see they are comparable weight wise, Grant at 6-0, Gary at 5-11, both like 220

neko4
11-12-2007, 05:42 PM
Woops double post

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 05:42 PM
Malcolm Kelly and Lawrence Jackson would be excellent for the Titans. Martin Rucker would also be a welcomed alternate pick in the 2nd RD also. Nice job.

To be honest, I'm a bit wary of that Lawrence Jackson pick, as I'm not sure he's worth it there. TE did briefly cross my mind, but I wasn't certain of going with two receiving options back to back. Do you think that's likely? That said, it does make some sense, thinking about it now.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 05:46 PM
Woops double post

It's obviously been awhile since I really thought of how Olandis Gary did in Denver's ZBS back in the day. But along with similar size, Gary was also a fairly balanced guy that attacked the hole. Didn't have much wiggle in him (did I really just type wiggle), and he didn't have much burst either. In that respect, he had a very productive season for the Broncos that year, and I could see Ryan Grant being effective along those lines. I think Gary was probably a bit more athletic, but I was just making a general comparison based on productivity, style, and the fact that Gary worked in the system as well.

asmitty45
11-12-2007, 06:29 PM
There's no way the lions pass on Laurinitis, and then Rucker in the 2nd

falconsrule
11-12-2007, 06:32 PM
Dixson is a huge reach in the early second round....no way Atlanta make that move.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 06:40 PM
There's no way the lions pass on Laurinitis, and then Rucker in the 2nd

I noted some changes I'd make to the LIons pick on the previos comments page.

That said, if I did go LB there, I think my inclination would be to go with Erin Henderson over Lauranaitis.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 06:43 PM
Dixson is a huge reach in the early second round....no way Atlanta make that move.

I really don't think that Dixon is a huge reach in the early 2nd as a projection. I'm not too sure that he isn't an early 2nd possibility right now. I think after the Woodson/Ryan/Brohm trio, it's wide open on who the 4th QB is. Right now, I think Dixon is in that mix, along with Joe Flacco, Josh Johnson, and Colt Brennan, with Erik Ainge being on the fringe. I think 1, if not 2, QB's will go in the 2nd, as there are enough teams that could look that route.

Geo
11-12-2007, 06:44 PM
What are your thoughts on Martin Rucker, toon? Can he stretch the field, attack downfield? Does he compare favorably to, say, Jason Witten?

I haven't seen as much of him as I'd like to, unfortunately.

TitanHope
11-12-2007, 06:50 PM
To be honest, I'm a bit wary of that Lawrence Jackson pick, as I'm not sure he's worth it there. TE did briefly cross my mind, but I wasn't certain of going with two receiving options back to back. Do you think that's likely? That said, it does make some sense, thinking about it now.

I think Jackson easily has a mid-late 2nd RD value, but honestly I trust your opinion more than my own. I live in Tennessee, and Pac 10 games are very rarely aired here. But, our two LE's in Travis LaBoy and Antwan Odom are FA's at the end of the year. We have the cap space to re-sign them, but we already have Bryce Fisher as depth and drafted a pass rusher in Jacob Ford last year. Ford was placed on IR at the beginning of the season, so he's a bit of an unknown commodity. Nevertheless, we could lose one or both of the LE's and Jackson seems like he's be able to fill in that role nicely.

First off, I'd like to say that I do not know if the Titans will draft a WR in the 1st RD. They don't have a history of it, and we drafted Paul Williams in the 3rd RD last year. Now, I don't have real high hopes for Williams, but considering we did pass on Dwayne Bowe, a WR who would have fit our offense very well, I think there's a fairly good chance they don't go receiver in the 1st RD in favor for someone already on the roster. I'd prefer them to, but realistically I don't know if it will happen. In the 2nd RD, it may be more likely but I can't really say. So two receiving options may not happen in favor of TE over WR.

As for TE, the TE in our offense is more utilized than the WR. People are quick to make the Young/Sweed connection, but also fail to realize that Vince favors the Tight End. The only TE on our roster worth his salt is Bo Scaife, and he is blatantly average, but good all around. After him, we have Ben Troupe who is thick in the head but an athletic specimen, and he is a FA. He may be let go since he's never panned out as a player. So if a player like Martin Rucker, who is my favorite TE in this year's draft, is available, I would be a large supporter of the pick. The TE is Vince's favorite "weapon", not the WR. Why not give him a great TE? It is a need and it should be addressed just as much as WR needs to be, if not more.

With that said, Malcolm Kelly and Lawrence Jackson are great picks in my opinion. TE is more of a need than DE, but that could very easily change depending on if the LE's are re-signed. I just thought that Jackson would be a good pick in the 2nd RD if we lose the Ends in FA, and possibly pick Fred Davis or something in the 3rd. If we keep the Ends, I think Rucker would be my preferred pick. Also, in my latest mock I gave the Titans Kelly and Rucker, but take that for what its worth. ;)

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 06:55 PM
I'm not too good on feeling comps this year, but I've always thought of Rucker as being similar to Heath Miller for me, albeit perhaps a tad better vertical speed. I just don't see Rucker as the type of TE that really vertically stretches the defense, although admittedly, the offense doesn't really always allow him to showcase that capability consistently.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-12-2007, 06:58 PM
Here's a question (removing the fact that I had to adjust and the trade a bit too complex) - Could you see them making a move up for someone, though? That said, I'd be the first one to say that staying put might make more sense in that situation. I just thought Chris Long might be enough to tempt Al to make that move, particularly since I think I would've given Chris Long to the Rams had the Rams had the choice.

If Oakland can't win a game in the next three weeks, I'd be surprised if they finish better than 2-14. That in mind, I'm not sure they'll have to trade up for anyone.

However, if they do end up picking in that 5-7 range, I do see trade up potential. If they do end up trading though, I'd bet money that it'd be for McFadden. I have no idea how much Al is going to like Long due to his father, but he'd still have to have a pretty damn impressive combine to not only warrant picking him, but to give up other picks to do so. Same goes with Glenn Dorsey, who I think would be the only other player I can imagine Oakland trading up for (and that'll depend heavily on their opinion of Sedrick Ellis).

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 06:59 PM
I think Jackson easily has a mid-late 2nd RD value, but honestly I trust your opinion more than my own. I live in Tennessee, and Pac 10 games are very rarely aired here. But, our two LE's in Travis LaBoy and Antwan Odom are FA's at the end of the year. We have the cap space to re-sign them, but we already have Bryce Fisher as depth and drafted a pass rusher in Jacob Ford last year. Ford was placed on IR at the beginning of the season, so he's a bit of an unknown commodity. Nevertheless, we could lose one or both of the LE's and Jackson seems like he's be able to fill in that role nicely.

First off, I'd like to say that I do not know if the Titans will draft a WR in the 1st RD. They don't have a history of it, and we drafted Paul Williams in the 3rd RD last year. Now, I don't have real high hopes for Williams, but considering we did pass on Dwayne Bowe, a WR who would have fit our offense very well, I think there's a fairly good chance they don't go receiver in the 1st RD in favor for someone already on the roster. I'd prefer them to, but realistically I don't know if it will happen. In the 2nd RD, it may be more likely but I can't really say. So two receiving options may not happen in favor of TE over WR.

As for TE, the TE in our offense is more utilized than the WR. People are quick to make the Young/Sweed connection, but also fail to realize that Vince favors the Tight End. The only TE on our roster worth his salt is Bo Scaife, and he is blatantly average, but good all around. After him, we have Ben Troupe who is thick in the head but an athletic specimen, and he is a FA. He may be let go since he's never panned out as a player. So if a player like Martin Rucker, who is my favorite TE in this year's draft, is available, I would be a large supporter of the pick. The TE is Vince's favorite "weapon", not the WR. Why not give him a great TE? It is a need and it should be addressed just as much as WR needs to be, if not more.

With that said, Malcolm Kelly and Lawrence Jackson are great picks in my opinion. TE is more of a need than DE, but that could very easily change depending on if the LE's are re-signed. I just thought that Jackson would be a good pick in the 2nd RD if we lose the Ends in FA, and possibly pick Fred Davis or something in the 3rd. If we keep the Ends, I think Rucker would be my preferred pick. Also, in my latest mock I gave the Titans Kelly and Rucker, but take that for what its worth. ;)

To be honest, there was a time earlier in the year where I thought Lawrence Jackson could be a mid-first pick. He's probably fine there as I contemplate it some more, although his overall stock seems to be sliding for a variety of factors. What I remember of FOrd, I thought he wasn't going to be more than a situational pass rusher, so it does make sense, although Odom has played well for you guys so I wonder if an effort is made to keep him.

I do agree that I'm not sure the Titans will go WR. Admittedly, part of my own thought process went in that, as I think they ought to. If they passed on WR early, then yes, I could see a TE pick. Within a hypothetical, though, I am curious if you think they would go back to back receiving targets in the first 2 rounds, which you seem to see the potential for, based on what you did for you own mock.

bearsfan_51
11-12-2007, 07:00 PM
If Oakland can't win a game in the next three weeks, I'd be surprised if they finish better than 2-14. That in mind, I'm not sure they'll have to trade up for anyone.

However, if they do end up picking in that 5-7 range, I do see trade up potential. If they do end up trading though, I'd bet money that it'd be for McFadden. I have no idea how much Al is going to like Long due to his father, but he'd still have to have a pretty damn impressive combine to not only warrant picking him, but to give up other picks to do so. Same goes with Glenn Dorsey, who I think would be the only other player I can imagine Oakland trading up for (and that'll depend heavily on their opinion of Sedrick Ellis).
Runningback looks like one of the better positions the Raiders have. I love McFadden, but I dunno...even for Davis that move doesn't make much sense.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 07:03 PM
If Oakland can't win a game in the next three weeks, I'd be surprised if they finish better than 2-14. That in mind, I'm not sure they'll have to trade up for anyone.

However, if they do end up picking in that 5-7 range, I do see trade up potential. If they do end up trading though, I'd bet money that it'd be for McFadden. I have no idea how much Al is going to like Long due to his father, but he'd still have to have a pretty damn impressive combine to not only warrant picking him, but to give up other picks to do so. Same goes with Glenn Dorsey, who I think would be the only other player I can imagine Oakland trading up for (and that'll depend heavily on their opinion of Sedrick Ellis).

Can you see them selling out for McFadden, assuming Fargas goes in the first 2 picks? After all, even from 5, it would entail the your first/2nd this year, and likely a first next year. That's a lot of assets to give up. I guess I'm giving Lane Kiffin too much power and I should know better, as Al will likely make the final call, but I was thinking that, with the way Justin Fargas has played, he might consider waiting on a RB and search for someone to pair with Fargas.

That said, I clearly erred with the initial trade, and the temporary trade stuck in there makes little sense, so I think I'm inclined to keep the Raiders still, as they'll get a solid talent at 5. Just have to contemplate if there's another trade partner for the Patriots.

Scotty D
11-12-2007, 07:09 PM
Lions can't block anyone. I'd think about Otah in the first or Richardson in the second.

Travis 24
11-12-2007, 07:16 PM
AH...Man I LOVE that draft for the Eagles. I've been preaching CB/S...and you got 2 in a row. Love it, great job.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-12-2007, 07:20 PM
Runningback looks like one of the better positions the Raiders have. I love McFadden, but I dunno...even for Davis that move doesn't make much sense.

I love that Fargas is producing, but some combination of him, LaMont Jordan (who may not be around next season), and Michael Bush is below where it should be, especially if the Raiders are planning to have Russell start from day 1 in 2008. I like Fargas and Bush a lot as backups, but the offense needs a top notch runner if that passing game is ever going to be successful with the sort of wide receivers and playcalling they have right now.

McFadden seems like exactly the kind of player Al Davis would trade up for, and despite the fact that everyone has the Raiders taking a defensive player like Long or Dorsey or Ellis, the offense is in much more dire need of talent right now.

Can you see them selling out for McFadden, assuming Fargas goes in the first 2 picks? After all, even from 5, it would entail the your first/2nd this year, and likely a first next year. That's a lot of assets to give up. I guess I'm giving Lane Kiffin too much power and I should know better, as Al will likely make the final call, but I was thinking that, with the way Justin Fargas has played, he might consider waiting on a RB and search for someone to pair with Fargas.


As I said, personally, I think the Raiders are so bad that they are going to end up picking 2nd or 3rd. However, even with the shift to Cable's blocking scheme, I don't think Al Davis is going to take to the idea that they can plug anyone in. I think McFadden is more likely to be the target if they trade up, because it would seem that as long as they are picking top 6 they'll have a shot at one of three very good defensive linemen, and the motivation to trade up for one over the other just might not be there.

Of course, I could just as easily see them target someone like Felix Jones or Kevin Smith with their second (or trading up from that spot into the late 1st), and a lot of this is going to depend on how comfortable the organization feels about Michael Bush.

I know everyone wants to have the Patriots trading down, but I just don't see enough of the kind of players that compell GM's to give up 3 or 4 draft picks just to get. McFadden would be the only one right now as far as I can tell, and if he does go #1 or anytime before New England picks, they are probably out of luck. I know you had Jenkins going to Miami, but it wouldn't surprise me to see the Pats say goodbye to Samuel in the offseason and target Jenkins heading into the draft.

TitanHope
11-12-2007, 07:24 PM
To be honest, there was a time earlier in the year where I thought Lawrence Jackson could be a mid-first pick. He's probably fine there as I contemplate it some more, although his overall stock seems to be sliding for a variety of factors. What I remember of FOrd, I thought he wasn't going to be more than a situational pass rusher, so it does make sense, although Odom has played well for you guys so I wonder if an effort is made to keep him.

I do agree that I'm not sure the Titans will go WR. Admittedly, part of my own thought process went in that, as I think they ought to. If they passed on WR early, then yes, I could see a TE pick. Within a hypothetical, though, I am curious if you think they would go back to back receiving targets in the first 2 rounds, which you seem to see the potential for, based on what you did for you own mock.

Ford will only be a situational pass rusher, as he is around 250 pounds, but currently Travis LaBoy plays that role for us and does it well. Basically, its Odom on 1st and 2nd Down, and LaBoy on 3rd Down. And I think LaBoy is playing better than Odom so far, so that throws another wrench on the odds of signing one over the other. Both have done well, and ideally, the re-signing of both would be preferred than going for an unknown.

I wish you were the GM, as WR is absolutely the weakest link on the team. Help is needed, but Norm Chow seems content with who we have and has expressed so several times. TE can go in that same category, save that Chow has never stated that he was satisfied with our current TE's or not. I think they are our Top 2 needs on offense, so hypothetically I can see them go WR/TE or vise-versa, and I hope they do. Realistically, not so much. It all depends on how well the current WR's are doing at the end of the year. If they continue with their pace now, I do believe there would be a public outcry in Nashville if they pass on a Malcolm Kelly or other great WR prospect.

Babylon
11-12-2007, 07:27 PM
I'm not too good on feeling comps this year, but I've always thought of Rucker as being similar to Heath Miller for me, albeit perhaps a tad better vertical speed. I just don't see Rucker as the type of TE that really vertically stretches the defense, although admittedly, the offense doesn't really always allow him to showcase that capability consistently.

I thank Chase Coffman would compare more favorably to Miller, he would be my only TE to go in round 1.

TitanHope
11-12-2007, 07:29 PM
It's crazy. Mike Rucker isn't even the best TE on Missouri. But thats speaking more highly of how I view Chase Coffman than it is a knock on Rucker, as I do love Rucker.

aNYtitan
11-12-2007, 07:30 PM
Woo!!! Just an incredible pick for the Titans in the first. Malcolm Kelly would help propel the Titans offense into perhaps a top 10, as I see him as the second best(but not by much) WR in the draft. But, Vince Young may need one more option on offense. In the second, DE Lawrence Jackson is a very good pickup, but we need a great TE for Vince to succeed(he loves those underneath routes), so Martin Rucker, who is the best TE in the draft, would be the much better pick

rodri20
11-12-2007, 08:49 PM
Worst pats pick i have ever seen....
The only CB the would take in the first round is Jenkis but still I'm pretty sure they are not gonna take a CB in the first round... they like to pick CBs on later rounds....
if they pick a LB it would be James Laurinaitis even when I think he might not be a good fit for a 3-4 defense but he has talent no doubt about it...
I would say Kenny phillips so they can move meriweather to CB...
Darren Mcfadden because imagine Maroney- Mcfadden...
Even Calais Campbell because BB loves monters for the D-line...
Jake Long if he is still available because imagine giving more time to brady....
But CB in the first round and not jenkins... that doesn't look very accurate at all...

RaiderNation
11-12-2007, 09:20 PM
good picks but we could have probably wait where we were to get Long since pats need a cb and rams oline is bad

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 09:39 PM
It's crazy. Mike Rucker isn't even the best TE on Missouri. But thats speaking more highly of how I view Chase Coffman than it is a knock on Rucker, as I do love Rucker.

I like Coffman, but I still think Rucker is the better all around TE. I think Coffman's the better receiver, but I don't think it's by that big a difference. That said, I think all the top TE's are graded fairly close together, and I'd put them all in that 2nd/3rd mix. I don't really see any first round TE barring some spectacular time. I see a little Zach Miller in Coffman, although Chase may be a bit more athletic.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 09:40 PM
good picks but we could have probably wait where we were to get Long since pats need a cb and rams oline is bad

I have to revisit the Raiders as I initially screwed up the trade, which paranoid pointed out. That said, I will say between Jake Long and Chris Long, I'd probably give them Chris Long.

toonsterwu
11-12-2007, 09:52 PM
Worst pats pick i have ever seen....
The only CB the would take in the first round is Jenkis but still I'm pretty sure they are not gonna take a CB in the first round... they like to pick CBs on later rounds....
if they pick a LB it would be James Laurinaitis even when I think he might not be a good fit for a 3-4 defense but he has talent no doubt about it...
I would say Kenny phillips so they can move meriweather to CB...
Darren Mcfadden because imagine Maroney- Mcfadden...
Even Calais Campbell because BB loves monters for the D-line...
Jake Long if he is still available because imagine giving more time to brady....
But CB in the first round and not jenkins... that doesn't look very accurate at all...

Let's see

a) I think a lot of folks out there would argue that Aqib Talib is a better cover man than Jenkins, with perhaps better instincts. I don't agree, but I try hard not to mock my own opinions, although it doesn't always happen. In this case, I don't like the pick, as I'm not sold on Talib that high, but a lot of folks thin otherwise, and I will say that if we judge a player just on his on the field performance, Talib is good. Keep in mind one of the main reasons that Talib gets dogged right now is because of perceived poor linear speed. But ... that's a bit overrated, provided, as I noted in my explanation, that Talib runs a low 4.5 number (and not a mid-4.5 number) or better. Personally, I'm not sold Talib is worth it there, but then again, I clearly don't do this for a living. Only time will tell. Talib has to come out anyways.

b) So you are telling me that you would reach on a linebacker like Lauranaitis in the top 5, particularly at a position that probaly won't need an immediate full time starter next year?

c) Kenny Phillips hasn't really set the world on fire this year. He's probably still a top 10 pick based on upside. That said, Meriweather is still a better safety than CB. That said, making a small reach on a safety and then asking Meriweather to continue transitioning to CB makes less sense to me than picking a top CB and having BM stay at safety but that's me.

d) I could actually see them consider McFadden because of Maroney's injuries. That said, McFadden's off the board in that situation.

e) Calais Campbell isn't the greatest fit for the scheme. He could fit, but you don't draft someone in the top 5 to fit.

f) I didn't really give OL that much thought, because

1) Not a glaring need.
2) Enough depth to find someone later on, which leads to
3) They usually wait on OL

Anyhow tis early, so who knows.

TitanHope
11-12-2007, 10:08 PM
I may or may not have man crushes on the Mizzou tight ends. I believe Coffman is a junior, and I'm assuming he'll stay for his senior year. I'm thinking him and Martellus Bennett will be the top TE's next year, along with Cornelius Ingram depending on how he progresses. Coffman catches my attention in every Mizzou game I see, and I'm becoming a fan to say the least. I think Coffman as a senior will be better than Rucker as a senior.

osi+ap=allshallperish
11-12-2007, 10:19 PM
I would be hugely dissapointed if we don't address our secondary with either of our first two picks.

Gridiron
11-12-2007, 10:22 PM
Fantastic Jets picks.

Crow
11-13-2007, 06:36 AM
Runningback looks like one of the better positions the Raiders have. I love McFadden, but I dunno...even for Davis that move doesn't make much sense.
It actually makes perfect sense. Fargas isn't a lead back, and with his running style, he takes a hard shot to the chest/ribs every game. Eventually, he's going to get himself killed.

Jordan is a bum and on the way out.

Bush is a complete mystery. What we do know about him is that he's never been a true workhorse. Being that he's accustom to splitting carries, and McFadden is the same...the tandem of the two could potentially be outstanding. Assuming, that is, Bush's leg heals up the way it's supposed to.

Can you see them selling out for McFadden, assuming Fargas goes in the first 2 picks?
Fargas is re-entering the draft? ;)

After all, even from 5, it would entail the your first/2nd this year, and likely a first next year. That's a lot of assets to give up.
That's my only beef with the idea. Oakland is such a talent deficient team, they really can't afford to go balls out for one player.

I guess I'm giving Lane Kiffin too much power and I should know better, as Al will likely make the final call, but I was thinking that, with the way Justin Fargas has played, he might consider waiting on a RB and search for someone to pair with Fargas.
Considering that Young Hugg is in a contract year (http://www.nflpa.org/Resources/ActivePlayerSearch.aspx?id=34447), I'd be pretty surprised to see the team give him a contract worthy of a #1 back. He's producing, but he's not a lead back.

That said, I clearly erred with the initial trade, and the temporary trade stuck in there makes little sense, so I think I'm inclined to keep the Raiders still, as they'll get a solid talent at 5. Just have to contemplate if there's another trade partner for the Patriots.
McFadden, Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey, Sed Ellis...any of the above would be smashing.
I love that Fargas is producing, but some combination of him, LaMont Jordan (who may not be around next season), and Michael Bush is below where it should be, especially if the Raiders are planning to have Russell start from day 1 in 2008. I like Fargas and Bush a lot as backups, but the offense needs a top notch runner if that passing game is ever going to be successful with the sort of wide receivers and playcalling they have right now.
What he said.
...the offense is in much more dire need of talent right now.
Debatable. Our D-line is pretty...um...bad.

As I said, personally, I think the Raiders are so bad that they are going to end up picking 2nd or 3rd.
Almost certainly, it would seem. That early success definitely had me fooled.

However, even with the shift to Cable's blocking scheme, I don't think Al Davis is going to take to the idea that they can plug anyone in. I think McFadden is more likely to be the target if they trade up, because it would seem that as long as they are picking top 6 they'll have a shot at one of three very good defensive linemen, and the motivation to trade up for one over the other just might not be there.
Fairly sound reasoning.
Of course, I could just as easily see them target someone like Felix Jones or Kevin Smith with their second (or trading up from that spot into the late 1st), and a lot of this is going to depend on how comfortable the organization feels about Michael Bush.
Yep.

Finsfan79
11-13-2007, 09:22 AM
Again, since skipped my comments for Miami pick dude.

I just dont see this pick as making sense

He is not BPA
He is not Best Value even
He is not Biggest Need
He is not filling a position that is needed on our position against others.

Our defensive system is based upon the ideal that pressure outweighs the impact of the CB. They arent left on Iso very much instead the safety holds a primary position over the Cornerback in the system we have been running as does the Dline.

If you feel we should switch tothe 4-3 then there is still better picks there.

If you feel that we keep the 3-4 there is better picks there defensively or offensively.

Honestly toonster it is just a horrible pick dude for the 2nd overall pick.

Also we will be picking before the Jets unless we somehow beat them and manage to win 2 more games. LOL We cant even beat buffalo when we control the game for 59 minutes of it.

The Best bet for us is a trade back, once more you are projecting a trade right next to us but not for us. I dont understand this. As really we would swipe Chris Long way before we take a CB. Or we trade back with the Raiders or another team.


I do not see the mindset behind the choice.

JCutlery
11-13-2007, 10:55 AM
I was just thinkinig that with Marcus Thomas looking good, they might not opt to go the DT route that high. I did briefly think Ellis, but I thought THomas had been playing much better?

Marcus Thomas has been playing pretty darn good for a rookie, but besides him, we literally have nobody worth mentioning.

xooberon
11-13-2007, 11:54 AM
In regards to the Panthers, I'm not sure DL value there makes sense, and I did give consideration to OT's, but I didn't see a fit. Admittedly, I wasn't really considering LB at that point. Can I ask why LB, with Beason and Davis? While Chris Harris has been real solid for you guys, I do think that a free safety upgrade is still a need, partly due to Harris' limitations in coverage.

oh i agree that FS is a need but definately not one that should be filled in the 2nd round. i would rather we took one in the 5th-7th round. our secondary as a whole has played great bearing in mind the circumstances and the problems have come directly from the line. we've gotten absolutely no pressure all year and desperately need a DE who can get some penetration. OT is probably our biggest need since both starters hit FA but you said you couldn't see a fit. for a LB i really like beason at mike and davis has been making strides as well. however morgan is done and nail diggs is an average veteran so an improvement is needed.

but if you feel that there is no value at DE, DT, OT or LB then i guess a FS is the only other option

toonsterwu
11-13-2007, 12:18 PM
Again, since skipped my comments for Miami pick dude.

I just dont see this pick as making sense

He is not BPA
He is not Best Value even
He is not Biggest Need
He is not filling a position that is needed on our position against others.

Our defensive system is based upon the ideal that pressure outweighs the impact of the CB. They arent left on Iso very much instead the safety holds a primary position over the Cornerback in the system we have been running as does the Dline.

If you feel we should switch tothe 4-3 then there is still better picks there.

If you feel that we keep the 3-4 there is better picks there defensively or offensively.

Honestly toonster it is just a horrible pick dude for the 2nd overall pick.

Also we will be picking before the Jets unless we somehow beat them and manage to win 2 more games. LOL We cant even beat buffalo when we control the game for 59 minutes of it.

The Best bet for us is a trade back, once more you are projecting a trade right next to us but not for us. I dont understand this. As really we would swipe Chris Long way before we take a CB. Or we trade back with the Raiders or another team.


I do not see the mindset behind the choice.

Even though I am not big on Jenkins or Talib in the top 5, as of this moment in time, I think there's a better chance than most suspect for both to end up with top 10 grades, and potentially 1 of them to be a top 5 grade. That said, it is early. I will say that I would think right now that it's more likely that you go with a Long than a Dorsey, if the choice is on the lines.

As for the order, I just projected it based on the remaining schedule. Now that said, it's all tied into the Jets/Dolphins game. I think the Dolphins can win that one, and that's the only game remaining for the Jets that I actually like their chances, whereas I think the Dolphins have a few games. Anyhow, I've changed my order each time I've done it. I don't find a point to just follow current records when nothing is set.

As for the trade, I explained that already. First off, I am getting rid of it, because I screwed up the initial trade, forgetting the Raiders lacked a 3rd. 2nd of all, I just don't buy, as of right now, the Raiders, if they were at 5, moving up to 2, particularly with McFadden off, because the value differentiation would entail another high pick.

Anyhow, tis early. No one really has an idea what their team is going to do right now, as no team has really finalized any draft thoughts, for appropriate reasons.

TerribleEd
11-13-2007, 08:58 PM
Excellent call on Beau Bell as the Steelers 2nd Rounder. I love the flexibility he brings. He is obviously a standout at ILB for UNLV, but definitely has the right size/speed to play 3-4 OLB as well.

As for OT in the first round, I prefer Williams or Otah since both of them have the feet to play LT in the pros. I think Cherilus plays RT at the next level. BTW, when it's all said and done, I think Otah can slip into Rd 1 with a solid combine.

BamaFalcon59
11-13-2007, 09:06 PM
I like Mendenhall a lot, but the rest is shakey. Dixon, IMO, is not what Petrino wants and ditto for Hills. Hills is smallish and Petrino almost always has his lineman 320+ and preferably 330+. Dixon is mobile which is a positive but runs a gimick offense and we need someone to step in. Henne or Ainge seem like the best fits.

toonsterwu
11-13-2007, 10:01 PM
Due partly to griping about the order, I decided to do a quick mock and stick in it here. Thing is, this time there should be no order griping, as the order is based simply on a reversal of the standings listing on nfl.com right now. Also, since this is real quick, no trades, and 2nd/3rd round isn’t cycled (to save time, and considering we don’t have the final order yet). Some slight rankings adjustments on my own list, although probably not noticeable here. Added a few juniors that weren’t in my initial go around the other day. At the end of the day, I still end with

a) It’s early
b) There was a comment earlier about how players were not boarded correctly essentially. All I’ll say is that most NFL teams don’t have a set board yet.
c) I try very hard not to draft based on my own opinions of players.

Hmm, I didn’t get Xavier Adibi in there. Odd. Will have to revisit. That’s the one glaring name to me.

Comments on junior talentes considered (or not); definitely not an encompassing list … also no real rhyme or reason … not everyone is declaring, so mix it up on occasion:

QB – None. I don’t expect any junior QB’s to bolt in all honesty.

RB – Felix Jones, Ray Rice, Ian Johnson, James Davis, Jamaal Charles weren’t considered.

WR – James Hardy

TE – Considered Martellus Bennett.

OL – Only one in Ryan Clady.

DT – Only added Pat Sims to the mix. May add more the next time.

DE – Phillip Merling, Tyson Jackson weren’t considered.

LB – Sean Lee, Rey Maualuga, Darry Beckwith, Geno Hayes weren’t considered.

CB – Brandon Flowers, Victor Harris weren’t considered.

S – Only safeties considered were Kenny Phillips and Patrick Chung. (thus no Reggie Smith for example)

First Round

1. Miami Dolphins

It’s not as if this is out of character for Randy Mueller to add a first round running back when his team already had a lead guy. Yes, I know, different situations. Add in Ronnie Brown’s injury. Yes, I know, 99.9% will say this won’t happen. Maybe I’m just a stubborn fool. The one concern will be the medicals. Adrian Peterson may help McFadden … whether or not he may hurt him, we’ll only have to wait and see.

Miami Dolphins pick: RB Darren McFadden, Arkansas

2. St. Louis Rams

The decision is a Long here, and even though my gut says Chris, I’ll go with Jake, as I didn’t realize until now how penalized Barron has been since he set foot in the NFL.

St. Louis Rams pick: OT Jake Long, Michigan

3. New York Jets

Not a good situation for the Jets to be situated in, especially without a deal. I don’t expect them to go down the Glenn Dorsey aisle. Unfortunately, I’m going to have to go a route that I don’t particularly like. I think, preferably between the Long’s, Jake makes more sense, but the nod goes Chris here, with Mangini having to figure out how to use him. While I think Chris is best as a 4-3 end, I’ve always said that I think he could be a solid 3-4 end, and I don’t think people should necessarily rule out 3-4 OLB, as he can slim down.

New York Jets pick: DE Chris Long, Virginia

4. New England Patriots f/ San Francisco 49ers

I don’t see OL this high. I don’t see a ILB worth it here. I’m thinking an edge guy or a DB. Edge value at 4 is a bit of a stretch, IMO. Corner or safety? Comes down to how they perceive Meriweather, who I think is better as a safety. Furthermore, not sure Phillips is worth it here. Nod goes CB. As of now, I have Jenkins higher, but I would still note that, if Talib runs a solid time, don’t be surprised.

New England Patriots pick: CB Malcolm Jenkins, the Ohio State

5. Oakland Raiders

A lot of options available here, but Glenn Dorsey is probably too tempting to pass up.

Oakland Raiders pick: DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU

6. Minnesota Vikings

If they can get a QB, they need to. Nod goes back to Woodson this time around.

Minnesota Vikings pick: QB Andre’ Woodson, Kentucky

7. Cincinnati Bengals

Should be defense. Could use pass rush help, along with LB talent. Nod goes pass rush value here.

Cincinnati Bengals pick: DE Derrick Harvey, Florida

8. Atlanta Falcons

In this situation, they really need to land a franchise QB, and this is low enough that Petrino could get his guy. As most know, I’m not a Brohm fan.

Atlanta Falcons pick: QB Brian Brohm, Louisville

9. Philadelphia Eagles

Interesting options available here for the Eagles. Should go DB. Tough decision, but CB value might be tough to pass up here. Personally, I’m still not sold Talib is worth a top 10 pick.

Philadelphia Eagles pick: CB Aqib Talib, Kansas

10. New Orleans Saints

Could look a number of directions at this high of a spot. A bit of a reach IMO, but this is as high as I could see a LB. Remember, had Bush not fallen, Payton wanted Hawk a couple years back even though many folks said Hawk at 2 would’ve been a reach.

New Orleans Saints pick: LB James Lauranaitis, the Ohio State

11. Kansas City Chiefs

OL should be the call, barring horrid Croyle play. Let’s assume otherwise for now. Clady’s upside is probably too good here.

Kansas City Chiefs pick: OT Ryan Clady, Boise State

12. Houston Texans

Ideally, they’d deal and find picks to address OL/RB concerns. This being a no trade, they land the safety they’ve been seeking.

Houston Texans pick: S Kenny Phillips, the U

13. Denver Broncos

Without a trade, it’s tough to go with LB here. As such, I’m going with Ellis for value, even though I just don’t see them going with an interior of Thomas/Ellis.

Denver Broncos pick: DT Sedrick Ellis, Southern California

14. Chicago Bears

With the final top 3 QB available, Bears snap him up, barring a great 2nd half by Grossman. I’ve personally got Ryan higher, but the Falcons were low enough to justify Petrino perhaps getting his guy.

Chicago Bears pick: QB Matt Ryan, Boston College

15. Carolina Panthers

This order doesn’t do many favors for the Panthers. QB value is off. I don’t see the OL fit here to justify such a move. S value is lacking. I guess LB/DL/WR. Nod goes to Calais Campbell.

Carolina Panthers pick: DE Calais Campbell, the U

16. Baltimore Ravens

If they really went with pure value, a case could be made for Desean Jackson here. That said, I’ll go with Mike Jenkins, as their young corners haven’t really developed.

Baltimore Ravens pick: CB Mike Jenkins, South Florida

17. Arizona Cardinals

A lot of possibilities. OL? DL? Edge? DB value is lacking. Nod goes to edge.

Arizona Cardinals pick: OLB/DE Vernon Gholston, the Ohio State

18. Washington Redskins

DE value seems iffy with so many guys off the board. CB value is iffy. Nod still goes with Desean. I’d like for him to go higher … but who? Oakland/Cincy/Philly are the only options up top that seem mildly possible, but Oak has a better option, not sold on Philly, and Cincy taking a WR this high makes little sense.

Washington Redskins pick: WR Desean Jackson, California

19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Lot of possibilities. OL could be a thought. A WR is needed. DL seems unlikely here, and probably the same for LB. DB? Eh. No QB, and RB seems unlikely this high. Doucet would have to be healthy, but I think he might remind them a tiny bit of Lee Evans.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers pick: WR Early Doucet, Louisiana State

20. Seattle Seahawks

I’m thinking OL or RB here. With Mendenhall on board, I go RB.

Seattle Seahawks pick: RB Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois

21. San Diego Chargers

Ideally, they’d move back to get picks now that they lack 2nd/3rd rounders this year. Anyhow, sitting here, what’s the call? The ILB thing others have done was an intriguing idea. Just not sure. I’m still going OL. Goff has only one more year on his deal, and many have thought Olivea was better off inside. They could keep those two and groom, or they could make the changes now. I’ll lean towards the groom process and go with the massive Jeff Otah.

San Diego Chargers pick: OT Jeff Otah, Pittsburgh

22. Dallas Cowboys f/ Cleveland Browns

What’s the call here for the Cowboys? Still not sold on him going this high. Actually, still not sold on him as a starting caliber talent, although within the 3-4, he makes a lot more sense.

Dallas Cowboys pick: DL Kentwan Balmer, North Carolina

23. Buffalo Bills

DT value is a bit lacking here. CB could get some thoughts. I guess LB is creeping up the lists. Don’t see TE value. WR is a possibility as well. Going with Ali Highsmith.

Buffalo Bills pick: LB Ali Highsmith, Louisiana State

24. Tennessee Titans

I like the Kelly pick too much, despite their recent history of not picking WR’s early. I tried to give other considerations (DE options here seem iffy, LB seems a bit unnecessary in the first, DB value is only okay and it isn’t glaring, TE value seems iffy).

Tennessee Titans pick: WR Malcolm Kelly, Oklahoma

25. New York Giants

LB’s have a tendency to slip on draft day (see Bulluck years back). Rivers is a good one and might be deserving of going a lot higher.

New York Giants pick LB Keith Rivers, Southern California

26. Jacksonville Jaguars

DE? WR? QB? Chris Ellis or Earl Bennett? Nod goes to Bennett.

Jacksonville Jaguars pick: WR Earl Bennett, Vanderbilt

27. Detroit Lions

I’m thinking OL or LB. Even though I think Erin Henderson is a beautiful fit here, nod goes to Chris Williams.

Detroit Lions pick: OT Chris Williams, Vanderbilt

28. Pittsburgh Steelers

A lot of options top pick from. OL, WR, LB, CB could all get looks. Fast Willie will be 27 turning 28. Yes, he has a bit less wear and tear than most back at that age, but I’ll go back to an old pick and go with Jonathan Stewart as the big back to complement Fast Willie, and perhaps eventually take over in a couple years.

Pittsburgh Steelers pick: RB Jonathan Stewart, Oregon

29. San Francisco 49ers f/ Indianapolis Colts

DL talent is needed. Another pass rusher could be used. Offensive line help could be sought after. A playmaking WR is always a possibility. Having a good campaign this year, I wonder if Pat Sims may strike while the iron is hot.

San Francisco 49ers pick: DL Pat Sims, Auburn

30. Green Bay Packers

A number of possibilities exist, but I’ll go with CB. Nod goes to Jack Ikegwuonu, although other options exist.

Green Bay Packers pick: CB Jack Ikegwuonu, Wisconsin

31. Dallas Cowboys

After adding a DL talent, what’s next? NT could get a look. WR and CB both could get looks. RB can’t be ruled out. With all the issues at CB, one figures talent will be added.

Dallas Cowboys pick: CB Dominque Rodgers-Cromartie, Tennessee State

32. New England Patriots (Forfeited)

2nd round

33. Miami Dolphins

I really want to believe that Dre’ Moore will make this move up. Usually, there are some signs that he’s climbing by this point, though. I’m just a tad wary. That said, he’s a great fit here, and with 2 2nd rounders and needing DL value, it makes sense.

Miami Dolphins pick: DL Dre’ Moore, Maryland

34. St. Louis Rams

Darrell Robertson or Chris Ellis? I think Ellis is the better talent.

St. Louis Rams pick: DE Chris Ellis, Virginia Tech

35. New York Jets

I like Long, don’t like the pick earlier, but I don’t see them going down the Glenn Dorsey road, CB seemed unlikely, and I didn’t see another DL or edge guy that made sense. With Jake Long gone, OT up there didn’t make sense. As noted, a trade would be better. Anyhow, going OL here. Cherilus has been exposed a bit, but he’s still a good RT prospect.

New York Jets pick: OT Gosder Cherilus, Boston College

36. San Francisco 49ers

Added some DL meat earlier. What now? WR/OL are thoughts, but adding another edge guy might be necessary.

San Francisco 49ers pick: OLB/DE Shawn Crable, Michigan

37. Oakland Raiders

After adding Dorsey, they could look DE, OT, WR. I’ll stick with Sam Baker here.

Oakland Raiders pick: OT Sam Baker, Southern California

38. Minnesota Vikings

Got their QB. What’s next? OL, S, WR come to mind. I’m thinking that, if Childress is there (and that’s a big if), Lavelle Hawkins may remind him a tad of Reggie Brown.

Minnesota Vikings pick: WR Lavelle Hawkins, California

39. Cincinnati Bengals

Added a DE earlier. Erin Henderson slipped a bit this time, and he could, with Ahmad Brooks, give them dynamic ability at the LB position that they really have been lacking.

Cincinnati Bengals pick: LB Erin Henderson, Maryland

40. Atlanta Falcons

Added their QB earlier. What now? NT, DB, OL seem like possibilities, along with RB. Nod goes to Kevin Smith as a potential workhorse back for them.

Atlanta Falcons pick: RB Kevin Smith, Central Florida

41. Philadelphia Eagles

Added a CB earlier. What now? Safety is a consideration. I was thinking Jamar Adams earlier, but added Patrick Chung to the mix this time. That said, unless I’m mistaken LJ Smith is a FA.

Philadelphia Eagles pick: TE Martin Rucker, Missouri

42. New Orleans Saints

Added a LB earlier. What now? OL is a thought. Still think DT should be a thought. CB is another possibility. Nod goes to Charles Godfrey, particularly if he runs that top time. TE was a thought.

New Orleans Saints pick: CB Charles Godfrey, Iowa

43. Kansas City Chiefs

After going OL, what now? More OL is a possibility. I wonder about their CB depth.

Kansas City Chiefs pick: CB Terrell Thomas, Southern California

44. Atlanta Falcons f/ Houston Texans

Brohm and Kevin Smith gives that offense the potential restart that it needs. What now? OL could be an option. I think CB and NT could be thoughts. What’s the call? Some line meat could be worth it. I’m thinking defense and Red Bryant.

Atlanta Falcons pick: DT Red Bryant, Texas A&M

45. Denver Broncos

Added Sedrick Ellis earlier. What now? Safety and LB are thoughts. Which direction? Addressing LB is probably a bigger concern, so the nod goes to a MIKE in Beau Bell. How they arrange it, I’m not sure.

Denver Broncos pick: LB Beau Bell, UNLV

46. Chicago Bears

They added their QB earlier. What now? S, RB, WR, and OT come to mind. Values don’t seem to mesh here for the offensive line. Nod goes to Tony Hills in perhaps a slight reach.

Chicago Bears pick: OT Tony Hills, Texas

47. Carolina Panthers

Added Calais earlier. What now? S comes to mind. OL is a thought. QB is a possibility. Nod goes to QB, and in a reshuffling of my 2nd tier QB’s, Josh Johnson.

Carolina Panthers pick: QB Josh Johnson, San Diego State

48. Baltimore Ravens

Added a top CB. What now? Someone like Dan Connor, while not the biggest need, may be too tempting to pass up here. So could someone like Quentin Groves. Hmm … going with Groves here.

Baltimore Ravens pick: OLB Quentin Groves, Auburn

49. Arizona Cardinals

They added an edge guy earlier. What now? OL? RB? DL? CB? I’m going with RB, and Steve Slaton here.

Arizona Cardinals pick: RB Steve Slaton, West Virginia

50. Washington Redskins

Added a WR earlier in Desean. What now? CB and DE come to mind, along with OL. I’ll go with DE this time, and Lawrence Jackson.

Washington Redskins pick: DE Lawrence Jackson, Southern California

51. Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Added a WR earlier. What now? Perhaps a QB of the future.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers pick: QB Dennis Dixon, Oregon

52. Seattle Seahawks

Added a RB earlier. I am thinking OL or BPA here. Nod goes to Chad Rinehart.

Seattle Seahawks pick: OT Chad Rinehart, Northern Iowa

53. Miami Dolphins f/ San Diego Chargers

McFadden and Dre’ Moore. More DL is a thought. Talent anywhere is basically fine. Nod goes to CB and Antoine Cason.

Miami Dolphins pick: CB Antoine Cason, Arizona

54. Cleveland Browns

Perhaps an edge option like Darrell Robertson?

Cleveland Browns pick: OLB/DE Darrell Robertson, Georgia Tech

55. Buffalo Bills

Added a LB earlier. DT fit/value is iffy. CB is a thought. WR is a thought. I’m going WR.

Buffalo Bills pick: WR Keenan Burton, Kentucky

56. Tennessee Titans

Potentially added a top target earlier. What now? DE, LB, TE? I’ll go TE this time.

Tennessee Titans pick: TE Fred Davis, Southern California

57. New York Giants

Added a critical LB earlier. What now? DeJuan Tribble may lack great upside, but he could be a solid player able to step in soon.

New York Giants pick: CB DeJuan Tribble, Boston College

58. Jacksonville Jaguars

Added a WR earlier. What now? I’m going with DE or QB. At the end, nod goes to DE.

Jacksonville Jaguars pick: DE Wallace Gilberry, Alabama

59. Detroit Lions

Dan Connor has slipped tremendously, which in this case benefits the Lions. I think he’ll probably end up a few notches higher.

Detroit Lions pick: LB Dan Connor, Penn State

60. Pittsburgh Steelers

After adding a big back earlier, OL, LB, CB, WR could be possibilities. Drew Radovich is a tough, versatile OL talent who might be a consideration

Pittsburgh Steelers pick: OL Drew Radovich, Southern California

61. Indianapolis Colts

I like Pressley, but I’m wary of putting him here. He has the athletic potential to dominate. I’ll go TE.

Indianapolis Colts pick: TE Martellus Bennett, Texas A&M

62. Green Bay Packers

Added a CB earlier. What now? A safety gets consideration, and I have Patrick Chung as the option.

Green Bay Packers pick: S Patrick Chung, Oregon

63. Dallas Cowboys

They’ve added DRC and a 3-4 DE. What now? WR and RB seem solid possibilities. Keeping the same pick.

Dallas Cowboys pick: WR Donnie Avery, Houston

64. New England Patriots

Potentially added a top CB earlier. What now? LB seems an option. I still like the Ezra Butler pick.

New England Patriots pick: LB Ezra Butler, Nevada

3rd Round

65. Miami Dolphins

They’ve added Dre’ Moore and Antoine Cason on defense, and Darren McFadden on offense. What now? OL is a thought. More DL is a possibility. An edge threat? I was thinking OL, then decided to go with an edge option in Titus Brown.

Miami Dolphins pick: DE/OLB Titus Brown, Mississippi State

66. St. Louis Rams

Chris Ellis and Jake Long address two key areas. What now? I was thinking a lot of different options, and I go back to the OL. Perhaps Mike McGlynn?

St. Louis Rams pick: OL Mike McGlynn, Pittsburgh

67. New York Jets

Chris Long and Gosder Cherilus so far. What’s next? Hmm … ideally, they’d find a NT, but there really isn’t one. Maybe a gamble later on Frank Morton. I’m thinking a pass rusher here, perhaps someone like UCLA’s Bruce Davis.

New York Jets pick: OLB/DE Bruce Davis, UCLA

68. San Francisco 49ers

Pat Sims and Quentin Groves could go a long way to fixing that D. I’m thinking offense here, WR or OL. While they’ve supposedly penciled in Baas for center, he can still slide back to guard, and perhaps an anchor like Steve Justice?

San Francisco 49ers pick: OL Steve Justice, Wake Forest

69. New England Patriots f/ Oakland Raiders

They’ve added Malcolm Jenkins (CB) and Ezra Butler (ILB/OLB versatility). What now? An edge threat? DL? Another DB? Another RB? OL? I’m going with RB here, due to Maroney’s injuries.

New England Patriots pick: RB Mike Hart, Michigan

70. Minnesota Vikings

They added Woodson and Hawkins. What now? Safety is a thought. Same with OL.

Minnesota Vikings pick: OL Barry Richardson, Clemson

71. Cincinnati Bengals

They added Harvey and Henderson, which should help the defensive front 7. Offense or defense here? I was thinking maybe a SS like Jamar Adams.

Cincinnati Bengals pick: S Jamar Adams, Michigan

72. Atlanta Falcons

So far, it’s been Brohm, Kevin Smith, and Red Bryant. What now? CB? OL? I’m going CB, with Tracy Porter.

Atlanta Falcons pick: CB Tracy Porter, Indiana

73. Philadelphia Eagles

Aqib Talib and Martin Rucker so far. What now? Debating safeties … DeCoud or Barratt. Leaning Barrett

Philadelphia Eagles pick: S Josh Barrett, Arizona State

74. New Orleans Saints

Lauranaitis and Godfrey address two key areas on that defense. What now? I’m thinking TE or OL? OL value/fit seems fringy. Going with a TE to stretch the seams in Jacob Tamme.

New Orleans Saints pick: TE Jacob Tamme, Kentucky

75. Kansas City Chiefs

Terrell Thomas and Ryan Clady so far. What now? I’m thinking another OL.

Kansas City Chiefs pick: OL Mike Pollak, Arizona State

76. Houston Texans

They added Kenny Phillips. What now? Should be offense, whether it be OL or RB. Provided his health checks out, I’ll go with Tashard Choice here.

Houston Texans pick: RB Tashard Choice, Georgia Tech

77. Minnesota Vikings f/ Denver Broncos

Woodson, Hawkins, Richardson. Looking safety now. Going with DeCoud.

Minnesota Vikings pick: S Thomas DeCoud, California

78. Chicago Bears

Matt Ryan and Tony Hills so far. What now? S? WR? RB?

Chicago Bears pick: S Tom Zbikowski, Notre Dame

79. Carolina Panthers

Calais Campbell and Josh Johnson so far. Safety? OL? Don’t like the OL value here. Going with safety and Quentin Demps, who could mesh real well with Chris Harris.

Carolina Panthers pick: S Quentin Demps, UTEP

80. Buffalo Bills f/ Baltimore Ravens

They’ve added Highsmith and Burton. What now? I’m thinking a gamble on Pressley here.

Buffalo Bills pick: DT DeMario Pressley, North Carolina State

81. Arizona Cardinals

Vernon Gholston and Steve Slaton so far. What now? OL? CB? DL? FS? I’m thinking DB, and perhaps Simeon Castille.

Arizona Cardinals pick: DB Simeon Castille, Alabame

82. Washington Redskins

Desean Jackson and Lawrence Jackson. CB? OL? I’m thinking CB.

Washington Redskins pick: CB Dwight Lowery, San Jose State

83. Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Early Doucet and Dennis Dixon so far. What now? I’m thinking a RB perhaps, or CB.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers pick: CB Trae Williams, South Florida

84. Seattle Seahawks

Mendenhall and Chad Rinehart so far. What now? Perhaps a TE.

Seattle Seahawks pick: TE John Carlson, Notre Dame

85. Chicago Bears f/ San Diego Chargers

Matt Ryan, Tony Hills, Tom Zbikowski. What now? I’m thinking WR, RB, maybe even another OL. I’m thinking maybe Coastal Carolina’s Jerome Simpson.

Chicago Bears pick: WR Jerome Simpson, Coastal Carolina

86. Cleveland Browns

Added an edge guy. What now? Thinking DL or RB. Going DL with Maurice Murray.

Cleveland Browns pick: DL Maurice Murray, New Mexico State

87. Buffalo Bills

They’ve added Pressley, Highsmith, Burton so far. What now? A TE is a thought. Same goes for CB. I wouldn’t rule out OL if they loved someone. Not loving TE value here.

Buffalo Bills pick: CB Chevis Jackson, LSU

88. Tennessee Titans

Malcolm Kelly and Fred Davis could go a long way in addressing offensive woes. What now? Thinking defense, either DE, perhaps LB, maybe even a CB.

Tennessee Titans pick: DE Antwain Robinson, Arkansas

89. New York Giants

Keith Rivers and DeJuan Tribble really upgrade the. Thinking offense here.

New York Giants pick: WR Limas Sweed, Texas

90. Jacksonville Jaguars

Earl Bennett and Wallace Gilberry potentially address two short term concerns. What now?

Jacksonville Jaguars pick: QB Colt Brennan, Hawaii

91. Detroit Lions

Dan Connor and Chris Williams could address two huge areas for them. What now? Perhaps CB.

Detroit Lions pick: CB Terrence Wheatley, Colorado

92. Pittsburgh Steelers

It’s been offense so far with Drew Radovich and Jonathan Stewart. What now? Thinking defense and while not the best fit, it could be an intriguing transitional piece thought. He did slip a bit, so when I review it, I may need to adjust things.

Pittsburgh Steelers pick: LB Phillip Wheeler, Georgia Tech

93. Indianapolis Colts

They added a TE earlier. What now?

Indianapolis Colts: DT Nick Hayden, Wisconsin

94. Green Bay Packers

With Ikegwuonu and Chung, the secondary has been addressed. What now? OL? LB? RB?

Green Bay Packers pick: OT Duane Brown, Virginia Tech

95. Dallas Cowboys

They’ve added Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Donnie Avery, and Kentwan Balmer. What now? Thinking RB.

Dallas Cowboys pick: RB Chris Johnson, East Carolina

96. New England Patriots

They’ve added Malcolm Jenkins, Ezra Butler, and Mike Hart. What now? I’m thinking trenches, edge, and perhaps TE. Perhaps a big raw 3-4 DE talent.

New England Patriots pick: DE Kendall Langford, Hampton

toonsterwu
11-13-2007, 10:02 PM
Excellent call on Beau Bell as the Steelers 2nd Rounder. I love the flexibility he brings. He is obviously a standout at ILB for UNLV, but definitely has the right size/speed to play 3-4 OLB as well.

As for OT in the first round, I prefer Williams or Otah since both of them have the feet to play LT in the pros. I think Cherilus plays RT at the next level. BTW, when it's all said and done, I think Otah can slip into Rd 1 with a solid combine.

Williams and Otah were off the baord already.

Scotty D
11-13-2007, 10:07 PM
Awesome Lions draft. Love all three picks. Williams and Connor.

But toonster come on. I don't think anyone will mind if you make a new thread.;)

bearsfan_51
11-13-2007, 10:34 PM
I like that draft a lot better toonmeister.

Turtlepower
11-13-2007, 10:43 PM
Rivers and Tribble are good picks and I can see us drafting Sweed in the 3rd based on value. Odd how in your first we drafted him in the 2nd, then he fell to the 3rd in your second mock... =D

d34ng3l021
11-13-2007, 10:48 PM
I really like the Falcons trade. Trading down is always good, I think. With that pick though, iono. We dont really need a first round RB to be the workhorse. Norwood is a very good back and just needs a compliment. I think at that point, Petrino would love a huge guy like Loadat.

Dixon is an eh. I am not too high on him, but he could open up options for the Falcons offense...I would rather just get someone else though.

Otherwise, good picks.

GB12
11-13-2007, 10:52 PM
Wow, you're awesome. I like the Packers picks a lot. I don't know much about Chung, but isn't he more of a free safety?

toonsterwu
11-13-2007, 10:59 PM
Awesome Lions draft. Love all three picks. Williams and Connor.

But toonster come on. I don't think anyone will mind if you make a new thread.;)

See ... this was part of my evil plan to create a long thread. Most threads I start usually reach page 2 or 3 and die ... so i figured might as well piggyback on this ...

That said, if this was a mock with trades, I think Connor would've been gone already. I could see a team moving up for him, akin to the Bills moving up for his former teammate.

toonsterwu
11-13-2007, 11:00 PM
Rivers and Tribble are good picks and I can see us drafting Sweed in the 3rd based on value. Odd how in your first we drafted him in the 2nd, then he fell to the 3rd in your second mock... =D

Did some reorganizing of my rankings. That probably was one of the more noticeable areas of change.

Borat
11-13-2007, 11:02 PM
Again, I like the 2 DL picks for SF in the first 2 rounds. I think they would go after Sweed in the third in that scenario though.

toonsterwu
11-13-2007, 11:02 PM
Wow, you're awesome. I like the Packers picks a lot. I don't know much about Chung, but isn't he more of a free safety?

I could be wrong, but I thought Chung played the rover position for them and packed around 210-215.

bored of education
11-13-2007, 11:03 PM
I like Clady and Thomas toonster. but I have an issue with Pollak. I actually think Pollak is gonna be solid at guard or center. But I fully expext Niswanger to take over at center, herb taylor take over right guard maybe right tackle, kid is a young raw beast that is athletic. 3-4 years of Waters, Wiegman 1-2, Welbourn is getting shakey nowadays..i can see Niswanger or Taylor taking his spot. I think getting a franchise LT in Clady or Williams 1st round and shifting McIntosh to RT where he is better suited as the plan. Svitek Terry can back up either tackle in case of injury. Herb Taylor I think could be RT of the future. Niswanger Tackle or guard so maybe snagging a G/C type would be good now but I dont like it just yet. I think Jason Capizzi will get called up from practice squad at RT by years end. maybe see some time.

I maybe optimistic lol aobut the line.

toonsterwu
11-13-2007, 11:03 PM
Again, I like the 2 DL picks for SF in the first 2 rounds. I think they would go after Sweed in the third in that scenario though.

Really? A WR in the third? Admittedly didn't give that much thought, although that may partially be because I liked Jason Hill.

toonsterwu
11-13-2007, 11:05 PM
I like Clady and Thomas toonster. but I have an issue with Pollak. I actually think Pollak is gonna be solid at guard or center. But I fully expext Niswanger to take over at center, herb taylor take over right guard maybe right tackle, kid is a young raw beast that is athletic. 3-4 years of Waters, Wiegman 1-2, Welbourn is getting shakey nowadays..i can see Niswanger or Taylor taking his spot. I think getting a franchise LT in Clady or Williams 1st round and shifting McIntosh to RT where he is better suited as the plan. Svitek Terry can back up either tackle in case of injury. Herb Taylor I think could be RT of the future. Niswanger Tackle or guard so maybe snagging a G/C type would be good now but I dont like it just yet. I think Jason Capizzi will get called up from practice squad at RT by years end. maybe see some time.

I maybe optimistic lol aobut the line.

You may be right. I haven't followed things as closely. Out of curiousity, what would you do in the 3rd round then if you landed a LT and a CB earlier.

Borat
11-13-2007, 11:21 PM
Really? A WR in the third? Admittedly didn't give that much thought, although that may partially be because I liked Jason Hill.

Yeah, I think if Sweed were there at the top of round 3, they'd take him. I wouldn't mind the Steve Justice pick because I'm all about building offensive and defensive lines and working out from there. But I think Sweed's value at that point might be too much to ignore.

Also, just a FYI, but I don't think Baas has ever been considered for the center position. They drafted him and immediately made him a guard and even last year when starting center Eric Heitmann went down with a broken leg, they used someone else at center and left Baas as a backup guard. Baas will likely be the starting RG next year when Justin Smiley leaves to free agency.

bored of education
11-13-2007, 11:23 PM
That is a good question. Right now I think it hinders on how well Brodie Croyle does.

bearsfan_51
11-14-2007, 12:13 AM
Really? A WR in the third? Admittedly didn't give that much thought, although that may partially be because I liked Jason Hill.
You didn't consider reciever to the Niners? You must really like Jason Hill.

USAF Chief
11-14-2007, 12:13 AM
BoredofEducation,

As a fellow KC fan, I have to say that you are being WAY too homer in your analysis of our current talent for the OL. You must remember a few things:

A) Niswanger might make a better OG than a C and from what I've currently seen that is where they are fitting him in during the games when they can. I haven't seen enough of him to say that he's even got a small chance in hell to be a starter next year.

B) Herb Taylor is a small guy (don't have time to look up his measurements) but he came from a smaller school and was like a 6th rounder. I see no reason (especially since he hasn't even sniffed the field to my knowledge) to even be a discussion topic for a starter spot.

C) Capizzi (the dude from the PS) will be nothing but training camp fodder most likely. The guy would have had alot of more buzz surrounding him if he had serious potential but he was a guy added to the PS mid season and until I see more Im inclined to believe he's not to be counted on.

That being said, here is how our OL plays out now:

LT -- McIntosh
** Probably going to be moved to RT**
LG -- Waters
**Not going anywhere (That move to OC is garbage talk)
C -- Weigmann
**Most likely going to retire, has lost a step and also doesn't fit our scheme anymore**
RG -- Welbourn
**Prime target to be cut and I see us targeting someone in FA for this spot like a Faneca, Smiley or Starks type**
RT -- Turley/Terry
**Don't let the door hit ya ....**

As far as the draft is concerned and based on what I see so far on the OL, I think our first round goes to either Clady or Loadholt if he declares. Those are both pretty solid LT prospects in the NFL. Both will anchor our line well.

Assuming we are able to land a OG in FA that leaves Center as the weak link. If we are able to land a CB (Asante Samuel would be a dream) we could spend our 2nd round pick on a corner to play opposite him or draft another OG/OC like a Pollak or Eric Young type.

Another option in the 2nd/3rd would be Tony Hills or Michael Oher. Hills is out for the remainder of the season and will most likely slip to this area IMO. Oher is a raw prospect but was highly touted and would probably be a more attractive prospect if he wasn't playing on such a horrible team. If he comes out he has all the tangibles to be a beast.

Having two young tackles or one young tackle and a stud center would make our line SOOOO much better.

Clady
Waters
Pollak
Smiley
McIntosh

Loadholt
Waters
Pollak
Starks
McIntosh

Im not an expert, but those two options seem lightyears better than what we are rollin' with right now.

Comments appreciated.

toonsterwu
11-14-2007, 12:26 AM
You didn't consider reciever to the Niners? You must really like Jason Hill.

I did really like Jason Hill last year, but it was more that I don't think the WR's in the 3rd round are necessarily more skilled than Hill. Whether or not they develop is a separate aspect.

bored of education
11-14-2007, 12:45 AM
BoredofEducation,

As a fellow KC fan, I have to say that you are being WAY too homer in your analysis of our current talent for the OL. You must remember a few things:

A) Niswanger might make a better OG than a C and from what I've currently seen that is where they are fitting him in during the games when they can. I haven't seen enough of him to say that he's even got a small chance in hell to be a starter next year.

B) Herb Taylor is a small guy (don't have time to look up his measurements) but he came from a smaller school and was like a 6th rounder. I see no reason (especially since he hasn't even sniffed the field to my knowledge) to even be a discussion topic for a starter spot.

C) Capizzi (the dude from the PS) will be nothing but training camp fodder most likely. The guy would have had alot of more buzz surrounding him if he had serious potential but he was a guy added to the PS mid season and until I see more Im inclined to believe he's not to be counted on.

That being said, here is how our OL plays out now:

LT -- McIntosh
** Probably going to be moved to RT**
LG -- Waters
**Not going anywhere (That move to OC is garbage talk)
C -- Weigmann
**Most likely going to retire, has lost a step and also doesn't fit our scheme anymore**
RG -- Welbourn
**Prime target to be cut and I see us targeting someone in FA for this spot like a Faneca, Smiley or Starks type**
RT -- Turley/Terry
**Don't let the door hit ya ....**

As far as the draft is concerned and based on what I see so far on the OL, I think our first round goes to either Clady or Loadholt if he declares. Those are both pretty solid LT prospects in the NFL. Both will anchor our line well.

Assuming we are able to land a OG in FA that leaves Center as the weak link. If we are able to land a CB (Asante Samuel would be a dream) we could spend our 2nd round pick on a corner to play opposite him or draft another OG/OC like a Pollak or Eric Young type.

Another option in the 2nd/3rd would be Tony Hills or Michael Oher. Hills is out for the remainder of the season and will most likely slip to this area IMO. Oher is a raw prospect but was highly touted and would probably be a more attractive prospect if he wasn't playing on such a horrible team. If he comes out he has all the tangibles to be a beast.

Having two young tackles or one young tackle and a stud center would make our line SOOOO much better.

Clady
Waters
Pollak
Smiley
McIntosh

Loadholt
Waters
Pollak
Starks
McIntosh

Im not an expert, but those two options seem lightyears better than what we are rollin' with right now.

Comments appreciated.

Thanks for the write up. No doubt an LT is needed and I think Niswanger has a chance to be future LG. Herb Taylor is could be in the running for LG or RG. 6'3, 300, 5.15 40, 26reps, solid 3 cone. Guy is agile and would bea solid guard. he played LT and RT at TCU started up near 45 games. I think he is a solid guard prospect as wel. Maybe a center is more ofa need than i presumed

Paranoidmoonduck
11-14-2007, 02:16 AM
I'm not quite sure how I feel about Harvey being that high. I'm not sure he's going to post all that great a workout, and his production this year has been about on par with Calais Campbell.

Other than that I liked what I saw a lot.

Crazy_Chris
11-14-2007, 03:23 AM
I like the Vikings Draft other than the Andre Woodson pick. Don't think he's the best fit. Unless of course childress is fired and we stop running the West Coast.

Bar-bq
11-14-2007, 05:02 AM
That is the best way I've seen a Rams draft explained around here.

props to you for making the right picks.

Chris Long, though....if only!

Crow
11-14-2007, 05:58 AM
Liking the Oakland draft. If Dorsey falls to us, I'll sh1t myself.

NIN1984
11-14-2007, 08:08 AM
I dont like the idea of us trading up at all especially without a 3rd rounder.But good picks.

agreed but both picks are huge needs, great mock tho very nice read

fenikz
11-14-2007, 09:57 AM
I'm mixed on the campbell pick, he has he athleticism to play 3-4 OLB but his size is a better fit at DE which Dockett and Smith already occupy. Pendergast is a genius with defensive schemes so he could probally make it work. I think he will end up being a top 10 pick so we more than likely won't get a shot at him but it is an interesting option

a 4-3 line up of this would't be to shabby

LDE Smith
UT Dockett
NT Watson
RDE Campbell
SLB Pace
MLB Hayes
WLB Dansby
CB Hood
FS Holt
SS Wilson
CB Green

FloridaFootball
11-14-2007, 11:35 AM
I really like both redskins picks.

xooberon
11-14-2007, 11:48 AM
i would rather the panthers take sam baker in the 1st, he fits our scheme perfectly and would probably be the safer pick. 2nd and 3rd rounds are fine

Finsfan79
11-14-2007, 12:37 PM
Even though I am not big on Jenkins or Talib in the top 5, as of this moment in time, I think there's a better chance than most suspect for both to end up with top 10 grades, and potentially 1 of them to be a top 5 grade. That said, it is early. I will say that I would think right now that it's more likely that you go with a Long than a Dorsey, if the choice is on the lines.

As for the order, I just projected it based on the remaining schedule. Now that said, it's all tied into the Jets/Dolphins game. I think the Dolphins can win that one, and that's the only game remaining for the Jets that I actually like their chances, whereas I think the Dolphins have a few games. Anyhow, I've changed my order each time I've done it. I don't find a point to just follow current records when nothing is set.

As for the trade, I explained that already. First off, I am getting rid of it, because I screwed up the initial trade, forgetting the Raiders lacked a 3rd. 2nd of all, I just don't buy, as of right now, the Raiders, if they were at 5, moving up to 2, particularly with McFadden off, because the value differentiation would entail another high pick.

Anyhow, tis early. No one really has an idea what their team is going to do right now, as no team has really finalized any draft thoughts, for appropriate reasons.


that is completely true and FA will impact things as well. If we pluck up a samuels CB goes out the window anyways. Where if we lost a RT (shelton) it might be more of a focus.

I think your McFadden pick for miami in previous mocks seems to have more and more bite to it. I just gotta wonder how Ronnie comes back from the injury. If we can flip him for Dallas' late first or say the Raiders 2nd and a next year 2nd. Gotta consider that imo.