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foozball
11-17-2007, 02:11 PM
How much has his stock risen today? And has Jake Long's stock gone down any? I think Gholston has pretty much solidified his stock as the best OLB/DE in this year's draft should he decide to come out. His versatility and speed/athleticism will allow him to wreak havoc in a variety of schemes. I think he's locked into the top 10 right now. New England, Arizona, and Baltimore could all use him.

Vikes99ej
11-17-2007, 02:18 PM
Gholston has always been top 20, maybe top 15 in my mind. Just a beast.

Moses
11-17-2007, 02:21 PM
Gholston certainly has impressed the past month or so. It should be interesting to see who is selected first: Vernon Gholston or Derrick Harvey.

bored of education
11-17-2007, 02:22 PM
He is going to be a top 10 pick.

ironman4579
11-17-2007, 02:27 PM
How much has his stock risen today? And has Jake Long's stock gone down any? I think Gholston has pretty much solidified his stock as the best OLB/DE in this year's draft should he decide to come out. His versatility and speed/athleticism will allow him to wreak havoc in a variety of schemes. I think he's locked into the top 10 right now. New England, Arizona, and Baltimore could all use him.

Basically all of Gholston's damage came against the Schilling, so no, I don't think Long's stock has would drop because of this game. And really, I think people already new Gholston was a beast.

foozball
11-17-2007, 02:27 PM
he's been great all season, but today he just dominated Michigan's OL, even Jake Long. again, that 3-4 or 4-3 versatility really helps...not to mention he's 6'4 260lbs and runs 4.65

foozball
11-17-2007, 02:28 PM
Basically all of Gholston's damage came against the Schilling, so no, I don't think Long's stock has would drop because of this game. And really, I think people already new Gholston was a beast.

i believe long did allow 1 sack to gholston today...his 1st sack allowed of the season

ironman4579
11-17-2007, 02:29 PM
he's been great all season, but today he just dominated Michigan's OL, even Jake Long. again, that 3-4 or 4-3 versatility really helps...not to mention he's 6'4 260lbs and runs 4.65

Um, he came up with like one sack against Long. I wouldn't say he dominated him.

ironman4579
11-17-2007, 02:30 PM
i believe long did allow 1 sack to gholston today...his 1st sack allowed of the season

That's why I said basically.

BrownsTown
11-17-2007, 02:34 PM
He did something noone else did, which is take on the best LT in the nation and get a sack, with 2 sacks on the other side. Just so talented. If he runs a good 40 I can see top 10.

Xiomera
11-17-2007, 02:40 PM
I have to give credit to Gholston with his performance today. He was relentless. He got the first and only sack that Jake Long gave up all season today. He is gonna be a top 20 pick, and I wouldn't mind seeing him in Detroit next year (which is saying a lot coming from a Wolverine fan).

That said, there is no way in hell that Jake Long's stock should drop as a result of this game. He is every bit as legitimate a top five pick as he was yesterday.

Sniper
11-17-2007, 02:41 PM
That search function can be a ***** sometimes, can't it?

Seeing as how 2 of his sacks and most of his hurries came against the Human Turnstile, it rose a little bit (just because of the Long sack). But I'm pretty sure I could get a sack vs. Schilling

ironman4579
11-17-2007, 02:45 PM
Let me clarify my position here. Gholston is a monster. Like Xio said, I sure wouldn't mind him in Detroit, even if he is a Buckeye, which makes me want to punch myself. I could easily see him as a top 10 pick, and I could see him going ahead of guys like Campbell and Harvey and being the second end off the board(after Chris Long)

That said, I don't think this game affected Jake Long's stock at all. Yes he gave up his first sack of the year, but it was his first sack of the year! He's still the top offensive lineman in the draft, and I don't think it's all that close.

Sniper
11-17-2007, 02:47 PM
Let me clarify my position here. Gholston is a monster. Like Xio said, I sure wouldn't mind him in Detroit, even if he is a Buckeye, which makes me want to punch myself. I could easily see him as a top 10 pick, and I could see him going ahead of guys like Campbell and Harvey and being the second end off the board(after Chris Long)

That said, I don't think this game affected Jake Long's stock at all. Yes he gave up his first sack of the year, but it was his first sack of the year! He's still the top offensive lineman in the draft, and I don't think it's all that close.

LIES! Jake Long is terrible in pass pro!

ironman4579
11-17-2007, 02:50 PM
LIES! Jake Long is terrible in pass pro!

Yes, he is horrible, undrafted for sure. Maybe 7th round if a team that likes to run wants to give him a shot at the practice squad. ;)

Green Bay Scat
11-17-2007, 02:51 PM
LIES! Jake Long is terrible in pass pro!

thats why hes a great RT prospect...now theres a guy by the name of Chris Williams...yea he could actually play LT in the NFL

jbeans187
11-17-2007, 02:51 PM
He got the best of Long once for the sack, but he is one of the only DE's i have ever seen drive long straight back more than once. Gholston looks like the incredible hulk, he is ripped. Hopefully hes not on that David Boston juice

Green Bay Scat
11-17-2007, 02:53 PM
He got the best of Long once for the sack, but he is one of the only DE's i have ever seen drive long straight back more than once. Gholston looks like the incredible hulk, he is ripped. Hopefully hes not on that David Boston juice

who cares, it only matters if u get caught remember that, its only cheating if u get caught.

Tell your kids if u can get away with murder do it, cause thats the socity we live in now.

Sniper
11-17-2007, 02:56 PM
thats why hes a great RT prospect...now theres a guy by the name of Chris Williams...yea he could actually play LT in the NFL

ZOMGZZZZZZZZ VANDY RULEZZZZZZZ EVERY PLAYER IS AMAZING ON VANDY! We get it, you like Vandy. That doesn't mean you have to blow them every post.

Sniper
11-17-2007, 02:56 PM
Yes, he is horrible, undrafted for sure. Maybe 7th round if a team that likes to run wants to give him a shot at the practice squad. ;)

Yeah get him the **** out of here.. What a waste of space. He gave up one sack this year, GET US A NEW LT!

ironman4579
11-17-2007, 03:00 PM
Yeah get him the **** out of here.. What a waste of space. He gave up one sack this year, GET US A NEW LT!

I'm frightened for our O line next year.

Xiomera
11-17-2007, 03:02 PM
I'm frightened for our O line next year.

I am frightened for every positional unit for us next year . . . name one strength? Punter?

P-L
11-17-2007, 03:06 PM
Why would Jake Long's stock go down? Gholston lined up against him 4-6 times, and Long won pretty much stopped him every time except for one of them. Gholston's sack was the only sack that Long has given up all year. Jake Long is arguably the best run blocker in the nation, but I'd argue that aside from the one time Gholston got the best of him, he was more impressive in pass protection in today's game.

As far as Vernon Gholston, I think his stock was already as high as it was going to get. I think he has potential in that 10-20 range, but I really can't see him going top 10, even after today's game.

ironman4579
11-17-2007, 03:08 PM
I am frightened for every positional unit for us next year . . . name one strength? Punter?

WR maybe? I actually think we have some pretty good guys in the wings(I've always liked Junior Hemingway), plus Arrington will(should) be back. And the D Line could be a strength with Graham and Taylor coming back. But yea, that's about it.

Paul
11-17-2007, 03:17 PM
That hit he had on Henne was disgusting. The size, speed, strength and the tenacity does remind me of Merriman. I could definitely see a team like the Jets taking a look at him.

SenorGato
11-17-2007, 03:20 PM
That hit he had on Henne was disgusting. The size, speed, strength and the tenacity does remind me of Merriman. I could definitely see a team like the Jets taking a look at him.

The Jets better take a look at him, our pass rush is pathetic.

Theres no real good Wilfork/Hampton NT's in this draft, so we might as well get that all important pass rusher.

draftguru151
11-17-2007, 03:24 PM
Long getting beat around the edge shouldn't have shocked anyone, but I saw him get driven back in pass blocking which is something I haven't seen a lot this year, and at least one time he got put on his back, and that wasn't against Gholston either. I've been thinking about Clady over him for a while and while this game doesn't push it either way it reinforces it a bit.

As for Gholston, it helps him a little, because while he hasn't gotten good pressure this year he hasn't been very consistent. He got 3 sacks (?) and a good amount of pressure as well. I can see top 10 as a possibility but he seems to be in the 10-12 range.

ironman4579
11-17-2007, 03:28 PM
Long getting beat around the edge shouldn't have shocked anyone, but I saw him get driven back in pass blocking which is something I haven't seen a lot this year, and at least one time he got put on his back, and that wasn't against Gholston either. I've been thinking about Clady over him for a while and while this game doesn't push it either way it reinforces it a bit.

As for Gholston, it helps him a little, because while he hasn't gotten good pressure this year he hasn't been very consistent. He got 3 sacks (?) and a good amount of pressure as well. I can see top 10 as a possibility but he seems to be in the 10-12 range.

Why Clady? He looked awful at the beginning of the year.

cowboysforever
11-17-2007, 03:31 PM
Long disappointed with the lateral movement IMHO. Field was slippery and it alot of OL where getting pancked. Regardless, he looks like a RT.

Gholston looked like a DE to me. Not a 3-4 OLB. Great power it seems. Top 10 Talent.

Give me Crable for 3-4 OLB. Fast, long arms, good blitzer .... Top 20 talent.

Scott Wright
11-17-2007, 03:34 PM
Gholston was a beast today, no doubt about that. If he comes out he will be in the running for that #2 DE spot.

Vikes99ej
11-17-2007, 03:44 PM
Gholston was a beast today, no doubt about that. If he comes out he will be in the running for that #2 DE spot.

Behind who?

BroadwayJoe10
11-17-2007, 03:47 PM
His game last weekend where he was MIA kinda had me worried, but he stepped up big today against a good team. I still want to see more of quentin groves before i choose between them, but i don't think any team will be losing out with either.

I did like seeing gholston drop back into coverage today, but i think groves has more fluid hips and better reactions. That could just be because he has been playing in a 3-4 as of late. I love em both. I'll be interesting to see who scott has higher out of the two.

bearsfan_51
11-17-2007, 03:47 PM
Behind who?

I would assume Chris Long. He's solidified himself as the top DE and probably a top 5 pick.

ironman4579
11-17-2007, 03:51 PM
His game last weekend where he was MIA kinda had me worried, but he stepped up big today against a good team. I still want to see more of quentin groves before i choose between them, but i don't think any team will be losing out with either.

I did like seeing gholston drop back into coverage today, but i think groves has more fluid hips and better reactions. That could just be because he has been playing in a 3-4 as of late. I love em both. I'll be interesting to see who scott has higher out of the two.

I heard Groves hasn't looked very good at all since he's moved to LB.

keylime_5
11-17-2007, 03:54 PM
The one sack where Gholston bull rushed Schilling and knocked him (an OT mind you) on his butt was priceless. That wasn't even his best one, the best one was where he had the inside move and pushed down Henne (his 3rd sack). BTW one of his 3 was where he beat Jake Long silly -Outland favorite and future top 5 pick- on an inside move.

draftguru151
11-17-2007, 03:54 PM
Why Clady? He looked awful at the beginning of the year.

His potential, especially at LT, is much higher than Long's. Great athleticism, great feet, very good in run blocking, not on the level of Long but he's still very good.

draftguru151
11-17-2007, 03:55 PM
The one sack where Gholston bull rushed Schilling and knocked him (an OT mind you) on his butt was priceless. That wasn't even his best one, the best one was where he had the inside move and pushed down Henne (his 3rd sack). BTW one of his 3 was where he beat Jake Long silly -Outland favorite and future top 5 pick- on an inside move.

He beat Long around the edge.

ironman4579
11-17-2007, 03:57 PM
The one sack where Gholston bull rushed Schilling and knocked him (an OT mind you) on his butt was priceless. That wasn't even his best one, the best one was where he had the inside move and pushed down Henne (his 3rd sack). BTW one of his 3 was where he beat Jake Long silly -Outland favorite and future top 5 pick- on an inside move.

He beat Long around the edge.

keylime_5
11-17-2007, 04:01 PM
I guess he did, but his first sack I think was the inside move. Sack's a sack, doesn't matter anyway.

ATLDirtyBirds
11-17-2007, 04:05 PM
Reminds me alot of John Abraham. Both about 6'4 260, both extremely fast/atheltic pass rushers.

Vikes99ej
11-17-2007, 04:13 PM
I would jizz myself if the Vikes got him.

CARDIAC CAT 7
11-17-2007, 04:55 PM
If Gholston comes out this year he will be a Top 15 pick, probably could even be Top 10. He is the best pure pass rusher hands down over any other draft eligble prospect, and arguably one of the Top 3 front seven players (with Dorsey and Long). Campbell would be the only reason I say most likely Top 15 because some would perfer a guy whos potential is sky high and his combo of size and athletisism I think would put him ahead of Gholston on some boards.

BroadwayJoe10
11-17-2007, 05:11 PM
I heard Groves hasn't looked very good at all since he's moved to LB.

damn thats ashame. I was speaking more from the few times i saw him drop back into coverage playing as a hands down DE. I just like his natural athleticism. But, I can't really say whether he is looking bad cause hes out of place or his supporting cast isn't helping him out. I just can't imagine someone with that type of athleticism not flourishing in the 3-4. It'll be exciting to see how the rest of the season and combine plays out, and how the top end talent sorts out.

T.Smith
11-17-2007, 05:16 PM
kind of off topic, but damn, OSU would have a freak ass team if Gholston,Jenkins and Laurinits stayed. I doubt any of them do, but I will be very happy if at least 1 of them do.

ironman4579
11-17-2007, 05:17 PM
damn thats ashame. I was speaking more from the few times i saw him drop back into coverage playing as a hands down DE. I just like his natural athleticism. But, I can't really say whether he is looking bad cause hes out of place or his supporting cast isn't helping him out. I just can't imagine someone with that type of athleticism not flourishing in the 3-4. It'll be exciting to see how the rest of the season and combine plays out, and how the top end talent sorts out.

Not saying that I know for sure he's struggled(or at least not been dominant) as a LB. That's just what I read somewhere. I haven't seen an Auburn game since he made the move.

toonsterwu
11-17-2007, 05:23 PM
Why Clady? He looked awful at the beginning of the year.

The case for Clady would be:

a) he's gotten much better as the season progressed
b) played through injury, showing some toughness that some had questioned
c) athletic potential ... a case can be made that his pass protection skills might be the best in the draft, relative to transferring it to the next level ... if he gets a bit stronger, he could be an intriguing asset

it's no knock against Jake Long. Not saying he's a bad athlete or anything like that. Just that Clady has better atheltic potential.

I had Otah as a early 20's pick in the last mock ... I'm starting to think he could crack the top 10 ... and potentially the top 5 ... not that I would take him there ... but could see it happen

OhioState
11-17-2007, 05:25 PM
Long getting beat around the edge shouldn't have shocked anyone, but I saw him get driven back in pass blocking which is something I haven't seen a lot this year, and at least one time he got put on his back, and that wasn't against Gholston either. I've been thinking about Clady over him for a while and while this game doesn't push it either way it reinforces it a bit.

As for Gholston, it helps him a little, because while he hasn't gotten good pressure this year he hasn't been very consistent. He got 3 sacks (?) and a good amount of pressure as well. I can see top 10 as a possibility but he seems to be in the 10-12 range.

Cam Heyward put him on his back once that i remember. And Gholston? The man is an animal and i would really like to see a 4-3 team draft him, i think that he has amazing potential at DE although i could see him dominating at OLB as well

Smokey Joe
11-17-2007, 05:31 PM
before I thought of Gholston as more of a 3-4 OLB, but I can definitely see him as an elite pass rusher from the end. My DE rankings:

1. Long
2. Gholston*
3. Campbell*
4. Harvey*

cowboysforever
11-17-2007, 05:55 PM
Long has over 10 sacks as a 3-4 DE ..... hands down best DE out of college.

If Otah tests well, he will be the first Tackle picked. 6'6 340 lbs basket ball player?

keylime_5
11-17-2007, 06:43 PM
I love Chris Long and all, he's gonna be a top 10 pick and rightfully so.......but because of Vernon's athletic ability I think he has greater upside than any DE in this year's draft, plus he can play OLB in a 3-4. He's the closest thing to a Shawne Merriman since Shawne Merriman, freak of nature.

Not my personal rankings, but this is the order I think the DEs will be taken next April assuming the top juniors declare:
1-Long
2-Gholston
3-Campbell
4-Harvey
5-T.Jackson
6-Groves

genom
11-17-2007, 06:49 PM
I would not complain if the Jets drafted him with a top 5 pick. Our pass rush is that pathetic. Ideally, i'd love to trade down from 3 to about 8 or 9 and take him.

T.Smith
11-17-2007, 07:25 PM
This is the second game where Gholston has gotten the best of Jake Long, he blew his ass up last year. I'm sure you guys have all seen this but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yot9ClPvZDg

Turtlepower
11-17-2007, 07:35 PM
Honestly, I really don't think Jake Long was "owned" by Gholston, but he did obviously beat him a couple times. Gholston looked to mostly be lined up opposite the RT, so there was little that Long could do there.

Sniper
11-17-2007, 08:09 PM
This is the second game where Gholston has gotten the best of Jake Long, he blew his ass up last year. I'm sure you guys have all seen this but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yot9ClPvZDg

Once again, one play does not make a whole game. "Blew his ass up" with an amazing 3 tackles and 1 TFL. Let us not allow reason to get in the way...

Sniper
11-17-2007, 08:15 PM
I guess he did, but his first sack I think was the inside move. Sack's a sack, doesn't matter anyway.

Schilling is ********, it's not hard to beat him

BrownsTown
11-17-2007, 08:25 PM
Gholston didn't own Long. Nobody owns Long. He took him head on and managed to work his way for the sack. It wasn't him dominating Long or anything.

Sniper
11-17-2007, 08:28 PM
Gholston didn't own Long. Nobody owns Long. He took him head on and managed to work his way for the sack. It wasn't him dominating Long or anything.

Logic is a beautiful thing.

keylime_5
11-17-2007, 08:55 PM
Gholston did beat Long though once for a sack, and Heyward knocked Jake on his butt on one play where Henne got sacked by someone else, which was even better than when Gholston got by him. It was fun watching Little Ironhead just push the big 6-7/330 dude right on top of Chad Henne, he absolutely mauled him.

But for most of the first half, Vernon abused Schiling to death, I think Youngstown State's RT looked better on Gholston.

bucknut12
11-18-2007, 10:28 AM
All it was was a great day for vernon and just a bad day for long. There were enough plays Long didn't look good to say he had a bad day. But the thing is, we already know how good Long is. Good players can have bad games. So when all is said and done, Long is still the top tackle and ultimately his stock will not fall. However, if he plays like that again in a bowl game...may cause some worries and hurt his stock. But no reason to think now he is falling much at all. Personally I think he is really really good, but showed that every good pro prospect college player looks bad sometimes. Freaking James Lauraurnarianittisss has looked very average at times and I think I just saw him as the number 5 pick in the mock draft on this site. Relax people...so much gathering of information and studying to do till draft day.

bucknut12
11-18-2007, 10:30 AM
...and someone tell me how the hell to get that aaron ross pic off my postin thing...all I can think about is santanio then ginn burning him on the fade for touchdowns in 05 then 06 (atleast I think that was him in 05). I want him off my screen.

etk
11-18-2007, 10:44 AM
Stats and other BS aside, Long was bullied by OSU's bullrush on a few separate occasions. He's improved his pass pro against speed rushers, but he didn't have an answer when OSU's DEs went straight for his chest. That doesn't bode well for a potential top 5 pick, so yeah I do think his stock slipped a little. The top OT spot in the draft is out in the open IMO, with Long, Baker, Clady, Loadholt & others all in the mix.

Gholston is a beast BTW. Good enough to compete to be the top defensive prospect in the draft.

T.Smith
11-18-2007, 11:11 AM
Once again, one play does not make a whole game. "Blew his ass up" with an amazing 3 tackles and 1 TFL. Let us not allow reason to get in the way...

Well when I was refering to that play, yes, he did blow his ass up. How can you not look at that play and consider that blowing his ass up? I never said he owned him, or ripped it up all game, I just said he blew him up on that play.

He did have a lot of penetration last year, nothing much to show for it though. I still consider Long as a top 3 pick(I'd like Miami to get him actually)

Eather way it was a bad day for th UM O-line
http://homepage.mac.com/vijayr/hart1.png

remix 6
11-18-2007, 11:35 AM
Once again, one play does not make a whole game. "Blew his ass up" with an amazing 3 tackles and 1 TFL. Let us not allow reason to get in the way...

having less than 100 yards total offense..does it matter how many tackles he got?

ironman4579
11-18-2007, 11:56 AM
having less than 100 yards total offense..does it matter how many tackles he got?

Um, they were talking about last years game, in which Michigan scored 39 points, Mike Hart had 142 yards and 3 TD's, averaging 6.2 YPC, and Henne threw for 262 and 2 TD's.

Sniper
11-18-2007, 12:14 PM
having less than 100 yards total offense..does it matter how many tackles he got?

Talking about last year there slugger. Good call

Solomon
11-18-2007, 03:25 PM
Gholston did beat Long though once for a sack, and Heyward knocked Jake on his butt on one play where Henne got sacked by someone else, which was even better than when Gholston got by him. It was fun watching Little Ironhead just push the big 6-7/330 dude right on top of Chad Henne, he absolutely mauled him.

But for most of the first half, Vernon abused Schiling to death, I think Youngstown State's RT looked better on Gholston.

A bit off topic, but Heyward has looked good in every game I've seen this year. I know it's very early but I could see him as a John Henderson type player in a few years. He's got future all-american written all over him.

Race for the Heisman
11-18-2007, 03:45 PM
A bit off topic, but Heyward has looked good in every game I've seen this year. I know it's very early but I could see him as a John Henderson type player in a few years. He's got future all-american written all over him.

Not so sure about that. Don't get me wrong, I've took noticed of him since he first started lining up but he lined up a defensive end quite a bit and he's got great pursuit so I'm just not sold on that comparison. Good call on the All-American though, he could even be All-Big 10 next year if everything falls right.

gstock05
11-18-2007, 07:49 PM
A bit off topic, but Heyward has looked good in every game I've seen this year. I know it's very early but I could see him as a John Henderson type player in a few years. He's got future all-american written all over him.

I can't remember an Ohio State defensive lineman ever having a bigger impact on the line as a true freshman...

He's got incredible potential too..

keylime_5
11-18-2007, 09:04 PM
Well when I was refering to that play, yes, he did blow his ass up. How can you not look at that play and consider that blowing his ass up? I never said he owned him, or ripped it up all game, I just said he blew him up on that play.

He did have a lot of penetration last year, nothing much to show for it though. I still consider Long as a top 3 pick(I'd like Miami to get him actually)

Eather way it was a bad day for th UM O-line
http://homepage.mac.com/vijayr/hart1.png

I remember that play, it was the one where I dropped my jaw afterwards wondering, "why didn't Michigan's O-Line block on that play, was that a draw or what?" Not a good day for anyone on the Michigan O all around.

keylime_5
11-18-2007, 09:07 PM
A bit off topic, but Heyward has looked good in every game I've seen this year. I know it's very early but I could see him as a John Henderson type player in a few years. He's got future all-american written all over him.

He actually reminds me more of Richard Seymour. Not bad having a future Richard Seymour and a future Shawne Merriman as your starting DEs eh?

asmitty45
11-19-2007, 10:24 AM
If he does what he should do at the Combine there is no reason he can't come off the board right after Calais Campbell at the DE spot.