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View Full Version : Is spending a 1st on a qb really worth it?


soybean
11-20-2007, 12:17 AM
It seems the general consensus this year is that there is no "elite" qb prospect. (mainly because scott says so) Is it even worth a 1st to get Brohm, Woodson, or Ryan?

Current starting Qbs who were former 1st round picks:
Vince Young
Peyton manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Carson Palmer
Steve Mcnair
Rex Grosman
Phillip Rivers
Daunte Culpepper
jay Cutler
Alex Smith
Matt Leinart
Jason Campbell
Chad Pennington
JP Losman
Eli
Donovan McNabb

Current Starting QBs rounds 2-UDFA:
Tony Romo (UDFA)
Trent Edwards (Rd. 3)
John Beck (Rd. 2)
Kellen Clemens (Rd. 2)
Matt Hasselbeck (Rd. 6)
Marc Bulger (Rd. 6)
Brodie Croyle (Rd. 3)
Jon Kitna (UDFA)
Brett Favre (Rd. 2)
Derek Anderson (Rd.6)
Jake Delhomme (UDFA)
Drew Brees (Rd. 2)
Jeff Garcia (UDFA)
David Garrard (Rd. 4)

I think the second group has clearly out performed or at least shown they are on par with the first group. So why even spend a first round pick on a qb, wouldn't it be better to use that pick for another area of need and then pick up a qb to groom in the later rounds?

ie. erik ainge
chad henne
booty
brink
brennan
etc.

D-Unit
11-20-2007, 12:36 AM
Doesn't matter where you take them. It matters who you take and what kind of environment you surround them in.

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-20-2007, 12:45 AM
depends where you are in the draft.Woodson or Ryan are worth a first.

YAYareaRB
11-20-2007, 12:49 AM
The first group guys also play with more expected of them.

Current starting Qbs who were former 1st round picks:
Vince Young - Slow Start.. Playmaker none the less
Peyton manning - One ofthe Best EVER
Ben Roethlisberger - Great Team Leader. Starting to pick up the slack
Carson Palmer - Great QB
Steve Mcnair - Aging QB. Successful Career.
Rex Grosman - Shows flashes but too inconsistent
Phillip Rivers - Shows flashes but too inconsistent
Daunte Culpepper - Injury Plagued. Had a pretty good career
Jay Cutler - Hit a sophomore slump but is decent for a young QB
Alex Smith - UGH.. Do I have to?
Matt Leinart - Trouble learning new offense? I just dont know about this guy
Jason Campbell - Solid Starter and Slowly Progressing
Chad Pennington - Injury Plagued. When fully usable, could be really good.
JP Losman - Workout Warrior. "Small School" Project. Struggling Career
Eli Manning - Had both first round and manning hype. He just isnt Peyton
Donovan McNabb - Successful Career. One of the best in the game.

Current Starting QBs rounds 2-UDFA:
Tony Romo (UDFA) - Good NFL Career so far.
Trent Edwards (Rd. 3) - Could be good. Shows flashes.
John Beck (Rd. 2) - A little old. System QB issues. Could be a good QB
Kellen Clemens (Rd. 2) - Not that good
Matt Hasselbeck (Rd. 6) - He's been great for the Seahawks
Marc Bulger (Rd. 6) - His flaws are really showing this season, but still good
Brodie Croyle (Rd. 3) - We'll see how he leads the Chiefs
Jon Kitna (UDFA) - Solid Career in the NFL. Can really sling the ball around
Brett Favre (Rd. 2) - Sure fire Hall of Fame. Tough guy. Great QB
Derek Anderson (Rd.6) - Big Arm. Big year for him. I want to see consistency
Jake Delhomme (UDFA) - Sometimes lacks consistency. Injury Plagued
Drew Brees (Rd. 2) - Solid Starter
Jeff Garcia (UDFA) - Solid Starter. Good NFL Career.
David Garrard (Rd. 4) - Solid Starter.

VPF
11-20-2007, 02:02 AM
you could make this argument for any position. players picked in later rounds often do out perform 1st rounders. then why dont teams just trade their 1st for a bunch of 4th rounders? because the risk is lower in the first round. sure there are tons of busts each year but look at the first round of any draft and more times than not you will see a lot of quality players in it. more so than any other round? that depends on the draft. QB is arguably the most important position and if you have the chance to draft a guy with good production in college, good intangibles, and has a smart head, you would want him more than a guy that is more of a risk. if that argument made any sense to people, thats my point of view.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-20-2007, 03:03 AM
The fact is that only 32 players get picked in the first round every year while 223 get picked in the other six. That second group is pulling from a much higher stock of quarterbacks.

Crazy_Chris
11-20-2007, 03:37 AM
Current Starting QBs rounds 2-UDFA:
Tony Romo (UDFA)
Trent Edwards (Rd. 3)
John Beck (Rd. 2)
Kellen Clemens (Rd. 2)
Matt Hasselbeck (Rd. 6)
Marc Bulger (Rd. 6)
Brodie Croyle (Rd. 3)
Jon Kitna (UDFA)
Brett Favre (Rd. 2)
Derek Anderson (Rd.6)
Jake Delhomme (UDFA)
Drew Brees (Rd. 2)
Jeff Garcia (UDFA)
David Garrard (Rd. 4)

You forgot that one guy taken in the 6th round from michigan who is kinda good. Eh whats his name?... oh ya Tom Brady!

draftguru151
11-20-2007, 09:22 AM
I can't remember the exact numbers (they were in ESPNs draft mag last year) but the % of QBs in the first round that work out is somewhere around 50%, and I think all the other rounds were in single digits.

Billingsley26
11-20-2007, 09:33 AM
To me it all depends. Look at last year. I had always been saying that Trent Edwards was the best QB, techinically, and has the best motions and mechanics. And he was picked in the 3rd. Guys like Russel, Quinn and Kolb were taken ahead of him. Is that a knock on those guys? No, it isnt. Im just saying that you really need to grade your talent. And find out how good these guys can really be.

People who go in the 1st round are usually the "workout warriors" and the guys who don't seem like your smartest or truest football players, but are just freakish athletes.

keylime_5
11-20-2007, 09:42 AM
Ryan, Woodson, and Brohm can be good QBs if put on a team with a good O-Line and decent weapons. Chicago, Carolina, and Minnesota all need a QB and all those teams have offenses whose only missing pieces appear to be a signal caller. I think they'll do fine. Atlanta needs some O-Line and WR help first though.

volman88
11-20-2007, 11:08 AM
Two words
KYLE WRIGHT

Turtlepower
11-20-2007, 11:13 AM
The key thing is that first round QBs get all of the publicity, so everyone knows when they fail. As for QBs in the second round and past that, we hardly hear much about them unless they succeed and when that happens they are heralded. Even though you named all of the first round QBs who were both successful and unsuccessful, you only mentioned the unsuccessful QBs.

Staubach12
11-20-2007, 11:58 AM
Is it just me, or is this a stupid question?

Staubach12
11-20-2007, 12:05 PM
Two words
KYLE WRIGHT

Are you kidding me? Wright can barely even keep his own job! He's not throwing 60%, he's thrown more INTs than TDs this year, and he strait up looks terrible. You couldn't pay me to draft this guy.

Iamcanadian
11-20-2007, 12:19 PM
It seems the general consensus this year is that there is no "elite" qb prospect. (mainly because scott says so) Is it even worth a 1st to get Brohm, Woodson, or Ryan?

Current starting Qbs who were former 1st round picks:
Vince Young
Peyton manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Carson Palmer
Steve Mcnair
Rex Grosman
Phillip Rivers
Daunte Culpepper
jay Cutler
Alex Smith
Matt Leinart
Jason Campbell
Chad Pennington
JP Losman
Eli
Donovan McNabb

Current Starting QBs rounds 2-UDFA:
Tony Romo (UDFA)
Trent Edwards (Rd. 3)
John Beck (Rd. 2)
Kellen Clemens (Rd. 2)
Matt Hasselbeck (Rd. 6)
Marc Bulger (Rd. 6)
Brodie Croyle (Rd. 3)
Jon Kitna (UDFA)
Brett Favre (Rd. 2)
Derek Anderson (Rd.6)
Jake Delhomme (UDFA)
Drew Brees (Rd. 2)
Jeff Garcia (UDFA)
David Garrard (Rd. 4)

I think the second group has clearly out performed or at least shown they are on par with the first group. So why even spend a first round pick on a qb, wouldn't it be better to use that pick for another area of need and then pick up a qb to groom in the later rounds?

ie. erik ainge
chad henne
booty
brink
brennan
etc.


There are far more QB's drafted in rounds 2-7 than in round 1. The odds are
about 50% that a round 1 QB makes it, the odds combined for the other rounds is probably around 5%. You figure out which route offers the best chance of success. People will point out a Brady in round 6 but a team could draft round 6 QB's for 25 years and not find one that is successful.

volman88
11-20-2007, 01:51 PM
Kyle Wright is just like Trent Edwards. He plays on a bad team with alot of hype. Both no.1 qbs out of high school, only wrights potential is so much better. His Oline is bad, his recievers cant catch and his defense cant stop anybody. Yet he gets all the blame.

JDB7821
11-20-2007, 02:14 PM
The first group guys also play with more expected of them.

Current starting Qbs who were former 1st round picks:
Vince Young - Slow Start.. Playmaker none the less
Peyton manning - One ofthe Best EVER
Ben Roethlisberger - Great Team Leader. Starting to pick up the slack
Carson Palmer - Great QB
Steve Mcnair - Aging QB. Successful Career.
Rex Grosman - Shows flashes but too inconsistent
Phillip Rivers - Shows flashes but too inconsistent
Daunte Culpepper - Injury Plagued. Had a pretty good career
Jay Cutler - Hit a sophomore slump but is decent for a young QB
Alex Smith - UGH.. Do I have to?
Matt Leinart - Trouble learning new offense? I just dont know about this guy
Jason Campbell - Solid Starter and Slowly Progressing
Chad Pennington - Injury Plagued. When fully usable, could be really good.
JP Losman - Workout Warrior. "Small School" Project. Struggling Career
Eli Manning - Had both first round and manning hype. He just isnt Peyton
Donovan McNabb - Successful Career. One of the best in the game.

Current Starting QBs rounds 2-UDFA:
Tony Romo (UDFA) - Good NFL Career so far.
Trent Edwards (Rd. 3) - Could be good. Shows flashes.
John Beck (Rd. 2) - A little old. System QB issues. Could be a good QB
Kellen Clemens (Rd. 2) - Not that good
Matt Hasselbeck (Rd. 6) - He's been great for the Seahawks
Marc Bulger (Rd. 6) - His flaws are really showing this season, but still good
Brodie Croyle (Rd. 3) - We'll see how he leads the Chiefs
Jon Kitna (UDFA) - Solid Career in the NFL. Can really sling the ball around
Brett Favre (Rd. 2) - Sure fire Hall of Fame. Tough guy. Great QB
Derek Anderson (Rd.6) - Big Arm. Big year for him. I want to see consistency
Jake Delhomme (UDFA) - Sometimes lacks consistency. Injury Plagued
Drew Brees (Rd. 2) - Solid Starter
Jeff Garcia (UDFA) - Solid Starter. Good NFL Career.
David Garrard (Rd. 4) - Solid Starter.

A sophomore slump for Cutler? He has an 88.9 quarterback rating, which is pretty good for a guy who is without his number one receiver for a good while now. Since the Broncos' bye week, Cutler has posted quarterback ratings of 137, 106.7, 95.7, 85.4, and a down game at KC with 75.6. He has hit on over 75% of his passes in 3 of those games. He might not have the best TD/INT ratio you want (11/9), but that's coming around. He put up 2 TDs and 0 INTs against one of the best defenses in the league in the Titans last night. There's no doubt in my mind he's on his way to becoming one of the best quarterbacks in the league. With a little better supporting cast, more experience, and more coaching, he could be right up there with Peyton, Brady, and yeah, even Elway.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-20-2007, 02:21 PM
The first group guys also play with more expected of them.


Jay Cutler - Hit a sophomore slump but is decent for a young QB
.

Just a note on Cutler, he started out slow, but has caught fire since. In the 4 games since the bye(would be 5, but he got hurt after 4 throws against Detroit, so it wouldn't be fair to include it in the sample size), he is completing 67% of his passes for 7 TD/3 INT, and a rating of 101.1. He has turned it on as of late, and the team is performing well as a result. Excluding the Detroit game(which, in all likelihood would not have been a blowout if Cutler was playing), the Broncos are 3-1 since the bye, their one loss coming in OT to a top-2 NFC team.

JDB7821
11-20-2007, 02:23 PM
Just a note on Cutler, he started out slow, but has caught fire since. In the 4 games since the bye(would be 5, but he got hurt after 4 throws against Detroit, so it wouldn't be fair to include it in the sample size), he is completing 67% of his passes for 7 TD/3 INT, and a rating of 101.1. He has turned it on as of late, and the team is performing well as a result. Excluding the Detroit game(which, in all likelihood would not have been a blowout if Cutler was playing), the Broncos are 3-1 since the bye, their one loss coming in OT to a top-2 NFC team.

I like the way you think.

soybean
11-20-2007, 02:31 PM
The reason the success rate for first rounders is higher than that of quarterbacks chosen in later rounds is because of opportunity. many qbs that are picked in the later rounds are cut before they are even given a chance.

If you have a team with a veteran qb and then you pick up a player and let him sit and learn for a few years, I think most qbs would prosper.

That's why i think when favre decides to hang it up aaron rodgers isn't going to send the packers plummeting.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-20-2007, 02:38 PM
The reason the success rate for first rounders is higher than that of quarterbacks chosen in later rounds is because of opportunity. many qbs that are picked in the later rounds are cut before they are even given a chance.

If you have a team with a veteran qb and then you pick up a player and let him sit and learn for a few years, I think most qbs would prosper.

That's why i think when favre decides to hang it up aaron rodgers isn't going to send the packers plummeting.

Not just that, if a 1st rounder throws 1 TD and 11 INTs his first year, he gets 2 more years to prove his worth(Alex Smith). But a 6th rounder who throws 9 TD and 9 INT his rookie year has 3 guys step above him on the depth chart(Bruce Gradkowski, with the acquisition of Garcia, the return of Simms and the attempted acquisition of Plummer). If Alex Smith wasn't a first rounder, he wouldn't have finished his rookie season.

osi+ap=allshallperish
11-20-2007, 03:05 PM
People who go in the 1st round are usually the "workout warriors" and the guys who don't seem like your smartest or truest football players, but are just freakish athletes.

Work out warriors like Peyton Manning, Matt Leinart, Eli Manning, Brady Quinn, etc?

osi+ap=allshallperish
11-20-2007, 03:07 PM
Ryan, Woodson, and Brohm can be good QBs if put on a team with a good O-Line and decent weapons. Chicago, Carolina, and Minnesota all need a QB and all those teams have offenses whose only missing pieces appear to be a signal caller. I think they'll do fine. Atlanta needs some O-Line and WR help first though.

Chicago's oline has been worse than the sex cannon

ATLDirtyBirds
11-20-2007, 03:10 PM
Two words
KYLE WRIGHT

1 word.

SUCKS

osi+ap=allshallperish
11-20-2007, 03:11 PM
Not just that, if a 1st rounder throws 1 TD and 11 INTs his first year, he gets 2 more years to prove his worth(Alex Smith). But a 6th rounder who throws 9 TD and 9 INT his rookie year has 3 guys step above him on the depth chart(Bruce Gradkowski, with the acquisition of Garcia, the return of Simms and the attempted acquisition of Plummer). If Alex Smith wasn't a first rounder, he wouldn't have finished his rookie season.

You're completely ignoring potential and monetary commitment. Smith has a lot of room to grow while Gradkowski is all but peaked right now.

JDB7821
11-20-2007, 03:24 PM
Work out warriors like Peyton Manning, Matt Leinart, Eli Manning, Brady Quinn, etc?

I'd say Brady Quinn is a workout warrior, he's pretty cut.

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-20-2007, 03:33 PM
Kyle Wright is just like Trent Edwards. He plays on a bad team with alot of hype. Both no.1 qbs out of high school, only wrights potential is so much better. His Oline is bad, his recievers cant catch and his defense cant stop anybody. Yet he gets all the blame.based on this you never saw Edwards play in college.They're nothing alike.Kyle Wright just sucks and his play shows it.These Trent Edwards comparisons are lame and getting old.Alot of people who are making these comparisons never saw Trent play in college.Sorry but just because a QB is on a sucky team and has had injuries during his career doesnt make him the next Trent Edwards.

soybean
11-20-2007, 03:34 PM
You're completely ignoring potential and monetary commitment. Smith has a lot of room to grow while Gradkowski is all but peaked right now.

says who? says his birth certificate. puhlease.

And that;s the thing with the monetary commitment. Why spend however much is it first round qbs make on a 50% chance that he'll pan out.

draftguru151
11-20-2007, 04:57 PM
Kyle Wright is just like Trent Edwards. He plays on a bad team with alot of hype. Both no.1 qbs out of high school, only wrights potential is so much better. His Oline is bad, his recievers cant catch and his defense cant stop anybody. Yet he gets all the blame.

I really hope you're kidding.

Damix
11-20-2007, 05:37 PM
Round 1 is one round, rounds 2-7 + UDFA is not one round.

I hate to point out the obvious, but apparantly idiots are still on this forum. njx needs to work on that IQ test.

The fact that there are about the same number of 1st round QBs in the league as other rounds should tell you that drafting one in the first is very neccesary. Simple logic tells you that the probability of a QB panning out is much higher if taken in the 2st round.

mqtirishfan
11-20-2007, 06:38 PM
says who? says his birth certificate. puhlease.

And that;s the thing with the monetary commitment. Why spend however much is it first round qbs make on a 50% chance that he'll pan out.

Because you need a QB, and it's much smarter to build a team on a 50/50 shot than it is a 5% chance.

Billingsley26
11-20-2007, 07:09 PM
Work out warriors like Peyton Manning, Matt Leinart, Eli Manning, Brady Quinn, etc?

I was reffering to all positions. Take a look at guys like Vernon Davis....the workouts he had compared to the production on the field.

Crow
11-21-2007, 05:55 AM
depends where you are in the draft.Woodson or Ryan are worth a first.
They said the same thing about Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers...

Iamcanadian
11-21-2007, 10:33 AM
says who? says his birth certificate. puhlease.

*****His HC decided that and the rest of the league agreed with him.

And that;s the thing with the monetary commitment. Why spend however much is it first round qbs make on a 50% chance that he'll pan out.

******See the records of the franchise QB's who panned out where ever they were drafted. If a team finds one they are playoff contenders and SB contenders for the next decade. GM's prefer to gamble on finding one in round 1 where the odds favour success rather than wait 10 years to perhaps get lucky with a later pick especially since they won't keep their jobs that long.

hugegmenfan
11-21-2007, 03:23 PM
It seems the general consensus this year is that there is no "elite" qb prospect. (mainly because scott says so) Is it even worth a 1st to get Brohm, Woodson, or Ryan?

Current starting Qbs who were former 1st round picks:
Vince Young
Peyton manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Carson Palmer
Steve Mcnair
Rex Grosman
Phillip Rivers
Daunte Culpepper
jay Cutler
Alex Smith
Matt Leinart
Jason Campbell
Chad Pennington
JP Losman
Eli
Donovan McNabb

Current Starting QBs rounds 2-UDFA:
Tony Romo (UDFA)
Trent Edwards (Rd. 3)
John Beck (Rd. 2)
Kellen Clemens (Rd. 2)
Matt Hasselbeck (Rd. 6)
Marc Bulger (Rd. 6)
Brodie Croyle (Rd. 3)
Jon Kitna (UDFA)
Brett Favre (Rd. 2)
Derek Anderson (Rd.6)
Jake Delhomme (UDFA)
Drew Brees (Rd. 2)
Jeff Garcia (UDFA)
David Garrard (Rd. 4)

I think the second group has clearly out performed or at least shown they are on par with the first group. So why even spend a first round pick on a qb, wouldn't it be better to use that pick for another area of need and then pick up a qb to groom in the later rounds?

ie. erik ainge
chad henne
booty
brink
brennan
etc.


the problem is finding a rare gem in the 2nd day of the draft is much harder than you would think.

bearsfan_51
11-21-2007, 03:29 PM
Bruce Gradkowski is 57 years old. True story.

Scott Wright
11-21-2007, 03:39 PM
In my opinion quarterback is the most position on the field.

Granted you can find good quarterbacks beyond the first round but it's a lot harder and more rare than people think. Even if only 1 out of 4 first round quarterbacks pan out I will take a 25% chance on getting the next Elway, Marino or Manning any day of the week.

bored of education
11-21-2007, 03:42 PM
1st Round QBs Last 10 years:
J. Russell - ?
B. Quinn - ?
V. Young - on a scale of 5 I'd give him a 2.5/5
M. Leinart - ehhhhhhhhhh
J. Cutler - 2.75/5
Alex Smith- ehhhhhhhhh
Aaron Rodgers- ?
Jason Campbell - 2.75/5
Eli Manning - 3/5
Phillip Rivers - ehhh he wil be solid
Big Ben - 3.75/5
J.P Losman - ehhhhh
Carson Palmer- 4/5(go to remember where they were before he was drafted)
Leftwhich- EHHHH
Boller- ehhhhh
Rexy- Ehhhh
David Carr- ehhhhhhh
Joey Harrington - ehhhh (but i dont think his career is over)
Patrick Ramsey- ehhh
Mike Vick- no comment
Pennington- ehhh solid i guess
Couch - no comment
mcNabb- good
A. Smith- ehh
Daunte- solid career, injuries then bam i dunno
Cade Mcnown- whom?
Peyton- duh
Leaf- DUH

28 i think?
and McNabb,VY, Manning, Manning, Big Ben, Rivers, Cutler, Carson are all legit starters
some unknowns
some could bes: Leinart, Losman, Quinn, Russell
and some decent backs ups.

I think any round you draft a qb isa crap shoot

j05son
11-21-2007, 03:50 PM
Not just that, if a 1st rounder throws 1 TD and 11 INTs his first year, he gets 2 more years to prove his worth(Alex Smith). But a 6th rounder who throws 9 TD and 9 INT his rookie year has 3 guys step above him on the depth chart(Bruce Gradkowski, with the acquisition of Garcia, the return of Simms and the attempted acquisition of Plummer). If Alex Smith wasn't a first rounder, he wouldn't have finished his rookie season.


I saw an interview where Culter was challenged to be more of a leader on the Broncos. Lynch and Champ told him he needed to be more vocal...

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-21-2007, 08:50 PM
I saw an interview where Culter was challenged to be more of a leader on the Broncos. Lynch and Champ told him he needed to be more vocal...

And this has what relevance to anything that's been said in my post, or even in this whole thread?

Staubach12
11-22-2007, 01:49 PM
Kyle Wright is just like Trent Edwards. He plays on a bad team with alot of hype. Both no.1 qbs out of high school, only wrights potential is so much better. His Oline is bad, his recievers cant catch and his defense cant stop anybody. Yet he gets all the blame.

You've got to be kidding me. This is a joke, right? Have you ever even seen him play?!

Staubach12
11-22-2007, 01:50 PM
I saw an interview where Culter was challenged to be more of a leader on the Broncos. Lynch and Champ told him he needed to be more vocal...

Relevance?

BeerBaron
11-22-2007, 08:13 PM
Ive always believed that I wouldnt take a QB any sooner than round 2. Use that first round pick on a good defender to stop the other team or a lineman to protect your passer.

I bet i could go through a bunch of recent late round or undrafted QB's and find guys who were productive in college and who, if surrounded with adequate talent, would be more than effective for thier team.

Billingsley26
11-22-2007, 08:55 PM
Buf: JP Losman 1st
NE: Tom Brady 6th
NYJ: Kellen Clemens 2nd
MIA: John Beck 3rd
BAL: Kyle Boller 1st
CIN: Carson Palmer 1st
PIT: Ben Roethlisberger 1st
CLE: Derek Anderson 6th
IND: Peyton Manning 1st
TEN: Vince Young 1st
HOU: Matt Schaub 3rd
JAX: David Garrard 4th
DEN: Jay Cutler 1st
SD: Phillip Rivers 1st
KC: Brodie Croyle 3rd
OAK: Daunte Culpepper 1st

DAL: Tony Romo UDFA
WAS: Jason Campbell 1st
PHI: Donovan Mcnabb 1st
NYG: Eli Manning 1st
NO: Drew Brees 2nd
TB: Jeff Garcia UDFA
ATL: Joey Harrington 1st
CAR:Testaverde 1st
SF: Alex Smith 1st
STL: Marc Bulger 6th
SEA: Matt Hasselbeck 6th
ARI: Kurt Warner UDFA
GB: Bret Favre 2nd
DET: Jon Kitna UDFA
CHI: Rex Grossman 1st,
MIN: Tarvaris Jackson 2nd

There is every team and their current starting QB. As you can see, the majority of them have been drafted in round 1...several have come from round 6. As you can see, exactly 16 have been drafted in round 1, and 16 from rounds 2-7. There it goes to show everyone the ratio of QB's taken from Round 1 compared to Rounds 2 through 7.

BeerBaron
11-22-2007, 09:08 PM
Buf: JP Losman 1st
NE: Tom Brady 6th
NYJ: Kellen Clemens 2nd
MIA: John Beck 3rd
BAL: Kyle Boller 1st
CIN: Carson Palmer 1st
PIT: Ben Roethlisberger 1st
CLE: Derek Anderson 6th
IND: Peyton Manning 1st
TEN: Vince Young 1st
HOU: Matt Schaub 3rd
JAX: David Garrard 4th
DEN: Jay Cutler 1st
SD: Phillip Rivers 1st
KC: Brodie Croyle 3rd
OAK: Daunte Culpepper 1st

DAL: Tony Romo UDFA
WAS: Jason Campbell 1st
PHI: Donovan Mcnabb 1st
NYG: Eli Manning 1st
NO: Drew Brees 2nd
TB: Jeff Garcia UDFA
ATL: Joey Harrington 1st
CAR:Testaverde 1st
SF: Alex Smith 1st
STL: Marc Bulger 6th
SEA: Matt Hasselbeck 6th
ARI: Kurt Warner UDFA
GB: Bret Favre 2nd
DET: Jon Kitna UDFA
CHI: Rex Grossman 1st,
MIN: Tarvaris Jackson 2nd

There is every team and their current starting QB. As you can see, the majority of them have been drafted in round 1...several have come from round 6. As you can see, exactly 16 have been drafted in round 1, and 16 from rounds 2-7. There it goes to show everyone the ratio of QB's taken from Round 1 compared to Rounds 2 through 7.

Im not sure if your trying to be objective or if you were making a point but i think you should take into consideration how many of the 1st round players are no longer on thier originial teams and/or probably arent the long term starters anymore.

you can pretty much strike grossman, testeverde, harrington, culpepper, boller, and possibly mcnabb and losman in that case really weaking the 1st round pool IMO

Billingsley26
11-22-2007, 09:14 PM
Im not sure if your trying to be objective or if you were making a point but i think you should take into consideration how many of the 1st round players are no longer on thier originial teams and/or probably arent the long term starters anymore.

you can pretty much strike grossman, testeverde, harrington, culpepper, boller, and possibly mcnabb and losman in that case really weaking the 1st round pool IMO

I understand completely. Usually I wouldnt take a QB in the first round, but I just put that out there for everyone to see. If it were me, last year I would not have taken Russel with the 1st pick....I would have taken superior talent that you wouldn't get the rest of the draft. A guy like Calvin Johnson or Joe Thomas.

BeerBaron
11-22-2007, 09:22 PM
I understand completely. Usually I wouldnt take a QB in the first round, but I just put that out there for everyone to see. If it were me, last year I would not have taken Russel with the 1st pick....I would have taken superior talent that you wouldn't get the rest of the draft. A guy like Calvin Johnson or Joe Thomas.

I agree. It strikes me as odd looking back on some of the expansion teams who took QBs #1. They take this guy and put him on a team thats made up of mostly rejects from other teams and other rookies and then wonder why so few of them pan out.

When your a team like oakland, you basically are a close equivalent of an expansion team and getting a superb LT or a stud WR early on would seem to make a lot more sense while you grab a QB in the later rounds to develop for a year or 2.

Every year there seems to be a few serviceable veteran QBs available in the FA market who would be perfect fits with a young, inexperience group of players around him. I think Oakland as an example would be a lot better off right now developing a calvin johnson or joe thomas with jeff garcia as a QB. heck just leaving mccown to the job might be plenty good enough

MaxV
11-22-2007, 09:54 PM
If you think that a QB prospect can turn into another Peyton Manning or Carson Palmer and you have a need at QB, would you pass on him?

Look, QB might be the most difficult position to scout. Every rookie QB pretty much starts from square 1 in the NFL. Some adjust to the pro level, some can't.

Guys like Tom Brady, Tony Romo and Marc Bulger were great late-round picks, but there is a reason why they fell so far.

In each of those 3 cases the teams that selected them passed on them SEVERAL times before that round.

Sure they saw something in them, but I seriously doubt they had big expectations.

BeerBaron
11-22-2007, 10:41 PM
If you think that a QB prospect can turn into another Peyton Manning or Carson Palmer and you have a need at QB, would you pass on him?

Look, QB might be the most difficult position to scout. Every rookie QB pretty much starts from square 1 in the NFL. Some adjust to the pro level, some can't.

Guys like Tom Brady, Tony Romo and Marc Bulger were great late-round picks, but there is a reason why they fell so far.

In each of those 3 cases the teams that selected them passed on them SEVERAL times before that round.

Sure they saw something in them, but I seriously doubt they had big expectations.

take a look at some of the earlier round guys who the patriots took who have played around brady and are responsible for helping that team win thier championships:

Richard Seymour, Matt Light, Daniel Graham, Deion Branch, Jarvis Green, Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Dan Koppen, Vince Wilfork, Benjamin Watson...

by building up the teams talent around brady using thier earlier picks, theyve been able to win all those championships.

and of course all coaches are going to think they can turn that stud QB prospect into the next peyton or palmer. they wouldnt be nfl head coaches if they didnt think they could. but it happens so rarely that your almost better off taking QBs who will be smart and hang onto the football and then surround them with talent. thats how brady got his start.

and before these 2 most recent Superbowls, there was a long stretch back where the superbowl participating QBs were late round picks (brady, brad johnson, jake delhomme, rich gannon, etc...)

and even if you want to point to peyton and big ben as examples, you have to realize the high level of talent around them that allowed them to achieve what they did.

draftguru151
11-22-2007, 10:53 PM
take a look at some of the earlier round guys who the patriots took who have played around brady and are responsible for helping that team win thier championships:

Richard Seymour, Matt Light, Daniel Graham, Deion Branch, Jarvis Green, Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Dan Koppen, Vince Wilfork, Benjamin Watson...

by building up the teams talent around brady using thier earlier picks, theyve been able to win all those championships.

and of course all coaches are going to think they can turn that stud QB prospect into the next peyton or palmer. they wouldnt be nfl head coaches if they didnt think they could. but it happens so rarely that your almost better off taking QBs who will be smart and hang onto the football and then surround them with talent. thats how brady got his start.

and before these 2 most recent Superbowls, there was a long stretch back where the superbowl participating QBs were late round picks (brady, brad johnson, jake delhomme, rich gannon, etc...)

and even if you want to point to peyton and big ben as examples, you have to realize the high level of talent around them that allowed them to achieve what they did.

Anyone else see the irony?

Billingsley26
11-22-2007, 10:57 PM
Anyone else see the irony?

This is one of those times that I am actually picking up on your sarcasm! Man Im proud of myself.

neko4
11-22-2007, 11:00 PM
Am I the only who thinks JP Losman is a really good QB?

Anyway, I think teams should only draft a QB in the first or at all if...

A-They have a great Line, Good TE and RB
B-Have a vet QB to hold down the fort
C-Have a coach he is great at developing young QB's

Using David Carr as an example we will notice that the expansion Texans team didnt have a great Line, TE, RB
A vet QB to start for a year
Or that great of coaches

Billingsley26
11-22-2007, 11:02 PM
Am I the only who thinks JP Losman is a really good QB?

Anyway, I think teams should only draft a QB in the first or at all if...

A-They have a great Line, Good TE and RB
B-Have a vet QB to hold down the fort
C-Have a coach he is great at developing young QB's

Using David Carr as an example we will notice that the expansion Texans team didnt have a great Line, TE, RB
A vet QB to start for a year
Or that great of coaches

Well, if you think that a QB who locks onto one WR...doesnt EVER hit the check down....stands in the pocket like Drew Bledsoe did....makes some bad, bad decisions....horrible when being pressured.....

...then yep I think you are the only one who thinks he is a good QB.

neko4
11-22-2007, 11:04 PM
Well, if you think that a QB who locks onto one WR...doesnt EVER hit the check down....stands in the pocket like Drew Bledsoe did....makes some bad, bad decisions....horrible when being pressured.....

...then yep I think you are the only one who thinks he is a good QB.
Well what other WR's is he supposed to throw to other than Lee Evans, Roscoe Parrish, whos like 3 foot 6

PACKmanN
11-22-2007, 11:09 PM
Tony Romo (UDFA)
Trent Edwards (Rd. 3)
John Beck (Rd. 2)
Kellen Clemens (Rd. 2)
Matt Hasselbeck (Rd. 6)
Marc Bulger (Rd. 6)
Brodie Croyle (Rd. 3)
Jon Kitna (UDFA)
Brett Favre (Rd. 2)
Derek Anderson (Rd.6)
Jake Delhomme (UDFA)
Drew Brees (Rd. 2)
Jeff Garcia (UDFA)
David Garrard (Rd. 4)

Most of these guys had a least 3-4 years of sitting in the benches and learning, also had some good QBs to learn under or had good qb/oc to teach them things.

Billingsley26
11-22-2007, 11:19 PM
Well what other WR's is he supposed to throw to other than Lee Evans, Roscoe Parrish, whos like 3 foot 6

Still I would take the Bills WR core this year over NE's WR core from last year. Still he makes bad reads, bad decisions, stands in the pocket, holds onto the ball too long and so on.....At least we have a future in Trent Edwards which is good.

volman88
11-23-2007, 03:20 PM
based on this you never saw Edwards play in college.They're nothing alike.Kyle Wright just sucks and his play shows it.These Trent Edwards comparisons are lame and getting old.Alot of people who are making these comparisons never saw Trent play in college.Sorry but just because a QB is on a sucky team and has had injuries during his career doesnt make him the next Trent Edwards.

Just because you dont agree with my comparison doesnt mean that you need to turn into an internet tough guy. Obviously you are the one that didn't watch him play.

Trent Edwards stats

YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2004 149 274 1732 54.4 6.32 76 9 11 19 110.29
2005 168 268 1934 62.7 7.22 49 17 7 30 139.01
2006 94 156 1027 60.3 6.58 48 6 6 22 120.55

Kyle Wrights stats

YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2004 5 9 30 55.6 3.33 23 0 0 6 83.55
2005 180 307 2403 58.6 7.83 92 18 10 34 137.21
2006 152 250 1655 60.8 6.62 51 8 7 19 121.37
2007 118 199 1549 59.3 7.78 97 10 13 21 128.20

Look pretty similiar

Trent Edwards
He is very strong all-around, and his arm is better than average. He can throw the deep ball well and can really put some zip in short-to-intermediate ranged throws. Edwards shows very good mobility and speed (4.76 in the 40-yard dash) for his size (6-4, 220 pounds).

Kyle Wright

He is 6-4. Weight: 220. A stronger arm that Edwards, deep ball not as consistent as Edwards. Decision making is very similiar to Edwards. He runs a 4.78 forty. His o-line has been terrible and has been flushed out of the pocket on nearly every dropback.

So i'm not sure where your getting your info for this comparison, but I would love for you to bring me back something on how this comparison doesnt work.

draftguru151
11-23-2007, 03:25 PM
Because Trent Edwards doesn't suck? That kinda kills the comparison.

619
11-23-2007, 03:28 PM
Just because you dont agree with my comparison doesnt mean that you need to turn into an internet tough guy. Obviously you are the one that didn't watch him play.

Trent Edwards stats

YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2004 149 274 1732 54.4 6.32 76 9 11 19 110.29
2005 168 268 1934 62.7 7.22 49 17 7 30 139.01
2006 94 156 1027 60.3 6.58 48 6 6 22 120.55

Kyle Wrights stats

YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2004 5 9 30 55.6 3.33 23 0 0 6 83.55
2005 180 307 2403 58.6 7.83 92 18 10 34 137.21
2006 152 250 1655 60.8 6.62 51 8 7 19 121.37
2007 118 199 1549 59.3 7.78 97 10 13 21 128.20

Look pretty similiar

Trent Edwards
He is very strong all-around, and his arm is better than average. He can throw the deep ball well and can really put some zip in short-to-intermediate ranged throws. Edwards shows very good mobility and speed (4.76 in the 40-yard dash) for his size (6-4, 220 pounds).

Kyle Wright

He is 6-4. Weight: 220. A stronger arm that Edwards, deep ball not as consistent as Edwards. Decision making is very similiar to Edwards. He runs a 4.78 forty. His o-line has been terrible and has been flushed out of the pocket on nearly every dropback.

So i'm not sure where your getting your info for this comparison, but I would love for you to bring me back something on how this comparison doesnt work.

kyle wright fits more into the category of someone like anthony morelli..standout HS QBs who didnt live up to the hype in college. edwards produced somewhat pretty well considering the supporting cast of his team. u just cant compare the players wright was surrounded with in comparison to edwards. theres a reason edwards was drafted in the third round and wright most likely wont get drafted. overall poor comparison.

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-23-2007, 08:26 PM
My info?How about the fact I actually went to a couple of Trent Edwards games in person.Stats mean absolutetly nothing.Its like all the people who said Eli Manning is the next John Elway based off of stats.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-23-2007, 10:02 PM
So i'm not sure where your getting your info for this comparison, but I would love for you to bring me back something on how this comparison doesnt work.

Several reasons. First off, Wright looks a great deal less physically impressive than he did earlier in his college career. The reason for this I am unclear on, but I'm not even sure his arm is still at a point where he'd be worth that kind of gamble. Second off, Wright attended an elite program which, while having fallen on hard times, is still drastically more talented than Stanford.

Edwards was possibly the most oft sacked quarterback in D1 while playing for a sad football program, and he still managed to show more than occasional flashes and displayed great leadership, poise, and toughness. Wright was playing with 5* prospects, made nonsensical throws, and relied heavily on physical tools which have degraded over his college career.

Edwards was a special case, and is not anywhere close to the norm. Not saying that some very talented quarterbacks aren't hindered by their program and health issues, but I really don't think that is the case with Wright.

volman88
11-24-2007, 12:20 PM
Several reasons. First off, Wright looks a great deal less physically impressive than he did earlier in his college career. The reason for this I am unclear on, but I'm not even sure his arm is still at a point where he'd be worth that kind of gamble. Second off, Wright attended an elite program which, while having fallen on hard times, is still drastically more talented than Stanford.

Edwards was possibly the most oft sacked quarterback in D1 while playing for a sad football program, and he still managed to show more than occasional flashes and displayed great leadership, poise, and toughness. Wright was playing with 5* prospects, made nonsensical throws, and relied heavily on physical tools which have degraded over his college career.

Edwards was a special case, and is not anywhere close to the norm. Not saying that some very talented quarterbacks aren't hindered by their program and health issues, but I really don't think that is the case with Wright.

What your saying makes sense, but wright is running for his life on every snap, the offensive line is terrible. I am not 100% on this but he has only played with 1 first round pick and that is greg olsen, throughout his career(I am not sure if this is right), adn if that is true then his team hasnt been what they usually are.

mqtirishfan
11-24-2007, 12:37 PM
What your saying makes sense, but wright is running for his life on every snap, the offensive line is terrible. I am not 100% on this but he has only played with 1 first round pick and that is greg olsen, throughout his career(I am not sure if this is right), adn if that is true then his team hasnt been what they usually are.

Let's not forget what a bad coaching staff does to a QB. Because of how bad the coaching situation was, Wright's progression came to a halt, and probably killed any chance he had of becoming an NFL QB.

stephenson86
11-24-2007, 01:07 PM
lol u forgot brady

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-24-2007, 08:58 PM
What your saying makes sense, but wright is running for his life on every snap, the offensive line is terrible. I am not 100% on this but he has only played with 1 first round pick and that is greg olsen, throughout his career(I am not sure if this is right), adn if that is true then his team hasnt been what they usually are.Edwards Oline was 10 times worse.They were horrible agaisnt UCDavis.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-26-2007, 05:15 AM
What your saying makes sense, but wright is running for his life on every snap, the offensive line is terrible. I am not 100% on this but he has only played with 1 first round pick and that is greg olsen, throughout his career(I am not sure if this is right), adn if that is true then his team hasnt been what they usually are.

And I don't disagree. Wright has been sacked quite a bit (not quite as frequently as Edwards was, but more than is healthy). However, after taking his beating, Edwards still looked like his confidence was intact and that he hadn't sustained any permanent physical damage. I don't think you can say that about Wright at this point.

frisby213
11-26-2007, 07:18 PM
Why do people always play the "sit and wait" card? That's total, utter BS.

Look at Peyton Manning. He came in as a rookie, started 16 games, and continued to start every game to this day. He never had a "veteran qb" to "look up to," and with the exception of Marvin Harrison - who was drafted only a year or two before him, and thus wasn't some kind of mature, experienced, HOF receiver - inherited an awful 3-13 team.

And what happened? He won a super bowl 9 years later and set his place in history as one of the best to play the game.

Some QBs make it, some don't. 'Nuff said. Waiting around for them to "get comfortable" is a load of crap.

no love
11-26-2007, 07:36 PM
Tony Romo (UDFA)
Trent Edwards (Rd. 3)
John Beck (Rd. 2)
Kellen Clemens (Rd. 2)
Matt Hasselbeck (Rd. 6)
Marc Bulger (Rd. 6)
Brodie Croyle (Rd. 3)
Jon Kitna (UDFA)
Brett Favre (Rd. 2)
Derek Anderson (Rd.6)
Jake Delhomme (UDFA)
Drew Brees (Rd. 2)
Jeff Garcia (UDFA)
David Garrard (Rd. 4)

Most of these guys had a least 3-4 years of sitting in the benches and learning, also had some good QBs to learn under or had good qb/oc to teach them things.

Exactly. Plus for most of the guys who have been successful when first starting- Romo, Bulger, Kitna, Farve, Anderson, Delhomme, Garcia, they have come into great situations with skilled playmakers on the outside. Guys like Owens, Holt, Johnson, Sharpe, Edwards, Smith.

Give guys like Alex Smith or Phillip Rivers a real threat on the outside and then talk about what they can do. Alex Smith actually had a good thing going with Antonio Bryant for gods sake. Look at Rivers when passing to Gates the only real passing weapon he has.

mqtirishfan
11-26-2007, 07:53 PM
Why do people always play the "sit and wait" card? That's total, utter BS.

Look at Peyton Manning. He came in as a rookie, started 16 games, and continued to start every game to this day. He never had a "veteran qb" to "look up to," and with the exception of Marvin Harrison - who was drafted only a year or two before him, and thus wasn't some kind of mature, experienced, HOF receiver - inherited an awful 3-13 team.

And what happened? He won a super bowl 9 years later and set his place in history as one of the best to play the game.

Some QBs make it, some don't. 'Nuff said. Waiting around for them to "get comfortable" is a load of crap.


Peyton Manning is one of the greatest QBs of all time. You can hardly compare his situation to other QBs.

Scotty D
11-26-2007, 08:01 PM
For every Derek Anderson there are twenty Omar Jacobs.