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View Full Version : New England now drafting #2


Iamcanadian
11-20-2007, 12:12 PM
http://www.gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.htm

FinNasty
11-20-2007, 12:40 PM
Yep... and they will get McFadden...

Be prepared for them to win the next 10 Super Bowls... its going to get ugly...


I ******* hate the Patriots...

lod01
11-20-2007, 12:43 PM
Yep... and they will get McFadden...

Be prepared for them to win the next 10 Super Bowls... its going to get ugly...


I ******* hate the Patriots...


They won't take McFadden. They will trade down and rape a horribly managed team. That is the Belicheck way.

princefielder28
11-20-2007, 12:47 PM
They won't take McFadden. They will trade down and rape a horribly managed team. That is the Belicheck way.

The Patriots need to address MLB or the secondary......the makes the team even scarier!

bearsfan_51
11-20-2007, 12:53 PM
I think they will take McFadden as well.

Trading down makes sense but who is going to trade up? For what?

The 2nd pick gets a 30 million dollar signing bonus. I would not give that kind of money to any of them, but if I had to, the only person I would consider at this point is McFadden. He's the only superstar at this point in the draft.

Moses
11-20-2007, 12:56 PM
I think they will take McFadden as well.

Trading down makes sense but who is going to trade up? For what?

The 2nd pick gets a 30 million dollar signing bonus. I would not give that kind of money to any of them, but if I had to, the only person I would consider at this point is McFadden. He's the only superstar at this point in the draft.

I'm not sure the Patriots can afford the salary of that high of a pick. They'll try desperately to trade down.

NYGibril28
11-20-2007, 12:57 PM
I think the Dolphins could take DMac, just so the Patriots cant

bearsfan_51
11-20-2007, 01:00 PM
I'm not sure the Patriots can afford the salary of that high of a pick. They'll try desperately to trade down.
Teams in the top 5 constantly try to trade down. It's not a position that most teams want to be in. Jerry Angelo has gone so far as to say that he thinks it's a punishment for teams drafting in the top 10 because even players that do live up to their potential rarely live up to their signing bonuses.


Honestly it wouldn't totally shock me if the Patriots didn't pick at all for 5-6 picks and then picked whoever they wanted. It would certainly shake up the draft.

Cashmoney
11-20-2007, 01:04 PM
i think this actually works against the patriots because if they cant trade down then there isnt an ILB or CB worth taking at that point. Im not even sure that kenny phillips is worth that high of a pick. so if they had to choose at number 2 they would probably take mcfadden or maybe jake long and have to give them 30 million in bonuses and still have to resign randy moss in the offseason. and moss is definitely going to be a lot more expensive this next season which in turn could totally screw their salary cap situation.

Moses
11-20-2007, 01:06 PM
Teams in the top 5 constantly try to trade down. It's not a position that most teams want to be in. Jerry Angelo has gone so far as to say that he thinks it's a punishment for teams drafting in the top 10 because even players that do live up to their potential rarely live up to their signing bonuses.


Honestly it wouldn't totally shock me if the Patriots didn't pick at all for 5-6 picks and then picked whoever they wanted. It would certainly shake up the draft.

Hence why there needs to be preset rookie contracts like in the NBA. :(

Cashmoney
11-20-2007, 01:09 PM
i think this actually works against the patriots because if they cant trade down then there isnt an ILB or CB worth taking at that point. Im not even sure that kenny phillips is worth that high of a pick. so if they had to choose at number 2 they would probably take mcfadden or maybe jake long and have to give them 30 million in bonuses and still have to resign randy moss in the offseason. and moss is definitely going to be a lot more expensive this next season which in turn could totally screw their salary cap situation.

and i forgot to mention that asante samuel needs resigning as well and hes gonna want big money too. its gonna be hard to resign those players because after a superbowl win they are going to want to test the market and see how much they can make.

briz222x
11-20-2007, 01:43 PM
they will either take McFadden at #2 or they will trade down with Atlanta picking up DeAngelo Hall in the process.

JDB7821
11-20-2007, 01:52 PM
they will either take McFadden at #2 or they will trade down with Atlanta picking up DeAngelo Hall in the process.

We have way too many holes to fill to trade up to #2 and then give away one of the only spots on the team that has stability. DeAngelo Hall was quoted as saying "If I have to take less money to play along side you (Chris Houston), I'll do it". Houston and Hall are going to be shutting receivers down next season.

JT Jag
11-20-2007, 01:53 PM
They won't take McFadden. They will trade down and rape a horribly managed team. That is the Belicheck way.Watch, they'll trade down and ultimately acquire the 32nd pick.

Geo
11-20-2007, 01:57 PM
I can't see the Colts trading picks with the Patriots, but you never know.

briz222x
11-20-2007, 01:58 PM
We have way too many holes to fill to trade up to #2 and then give away one of the only spots on the team that has stability. DeAngelo Hall was quoted as saying "If I have to take less money to play along side you (Chris Houston), I'll do it". Houston and Hall are going to be shutting receivers down next season.

The Falcons could take McFadden at #2 or their pick of any QB they want. Hall wants out of Atlanta and if the pats come knocking with a nice package (like the #2 pick and a second/third rounder) it would be hard to pass up.

JDB7821
11-20-2007, 02:19 PM
The Falcons could take McFadden at #2 or their pick of any QB they want. Hall wants out of Atlanta and if the pats come knocking with a nice package (like the #2 pick and a second/third rounder) it would be hard to pass up.

Thanks for completely ignoring the quote I provided you. Just because Hall blew up a few weeks ago doesn't mean winning won't cure his anger. We're already going to be picking around 5-8 and I would almost guarantee at least 2 of the quarterbacks are going to be available. I want Woodson the most, regardless of the Brohm/Petrino connection. If we give up Hall, who are we going to have start in his place? Chris Houston is great, but I think he's great as the RCB/#2 guy rather than the one who has to shadow guys like Steve Smith every game. That would put Chris Houston and David Irons as our likely starting cornerbacks, when Irons hasn't even seen a single snap on defense this year. If the Falcons didn't trade up for Calvin Johnson last year, they're not going to trade up for McFadden with the same ammunition to do it.

lod01
11-20-2007, 02:38 PM
Baltimore will probably trade up with NE and grab Woodson so they can continue to suck. NE will pick a defensive player if they can keep the O in tact. They need nothing on offense which is obvious. However, teams are scoring a few points on them and Belicheck probably is not happy every score is 56-0. Look for a trade down defensive player.

briz222x
11-20-2007, 02:52 PM
Thanks for completely ignoring the quote I provided you. Just because Hall blew up a few weeks ago doesn't mean winning won't cure his anger. We're already going to be picking around 5-8 and I would almost guarantee at least 2 of the quarterbacks are going to be available. I want Woodson the most, regardless of the Brohm/Petrino connection. If we give up Hall, who are we going to have start in his place? Chris Houston is great, but I think he's great as the RCB/#2 guy rather than the one who has to shadow guys like Steve Smith every game. That would put Chris Houston and David Irons as our likely starting cornerbacks, when Irons hasn't even seen a single snap on defense this year. If the Falcons didn't trade up for Calvin Johnson last year, they're not going to trade up for McFadden with the same ammunition to do it.

I didnt ignore your quote. Hall isnt gunna stay in Atlanta just because of Houston lol. You are gunna have to pay up next year and increase his salary or he will likely holdout, and if he hits free agency in 2009 hes as good as gone. Is your franchise willing to give him his money after the stuff hes been pulling?

Thats true a QB will likely be availible at 5-8 thats why i said -any QB they want-. What if they want Brohm and he dont last? Like i said they could have their pick of McFadden or any QB they want, and receive a pick for Hall who they arent willing to pay. You would be stupid to not want that deal especially if Hall is gunna be gone soon. If they want Hall in their future plans then its a bad trade no doubt. You may like Hall i would too as a fan but the way he is acting and getting fined by the franchise they might feel otherwise.

BucSappy
11-20-2007, 03:40 PM
No one can afford to trade up that high in the draft, and historically making big draft day trades is a bad move (Eli Manning, Michael Vick, Ricky Williams, etc.)

The Bucs didn't do it for Calvin Johnson, the Jets didn't do it for Reggie Bush. Both teams made offers for the #2 overall pick but they were renigged because it wasn't enough. Teams can't afford to make big moves for one player because they have other needs to fill on their football team. You can stand pat and still have an excellent draft.

I think the Pats will take Darren McFadden. The only case I can make that they take Malcolm Jenkins/James Laurinaitis that high is that they are more likely to get a smaller contract with those guys rather than with McFadden, but in the end McFadden is a much better player than both of those prospects and I think he takes the Pats offense to even a different level. It's pretty disgusting how good the Pats are getting.

ShutDwn
11-20-2007, 03:46 PM
The Patriots won't take Mcfadden. They already have all the weapons they need on offense. Their Linebackers are getting old and their safety position could be upgraded if they wanted. Regardless of how the linebackers are playing, you can't deny their age.

619
11-20-2007, 04:04 PM
if the patriots dont trade down and he isnt gone by their pick i see jake long being the pick. the patriots o-line is very solid but they arent getting any younger and a stud like long would surely be an upgrade over any of their guys right now.

bearsfan_51
11-20-2007, 04:09 PM
Baltimore will probably trade up with NE and grab Woodson so they can continue to suck. NE will pick a defensive player if they can keep the O in tact. They need nothing on offense which is obvious. However, teams are scoring a few points on them and Belicheck probably is not happy every score is 56-0. Look for a trade down defensive player.
Unless Woodson has a spectacular workout nobody is going to trade up to pick him.


It's a very simple truth at this point. There is very little elite talent in this draft, and even that is in the eye of the beholder. I just do not see a trade up at this point. It's too expensive.

bearsfan_51
11-20-2007, 04:10 PM
The Patriots won't take Mcfadden. They already have all the weapons they need on offense. Their Linebackers are getting old and their safety position could be upgraded if they wanted. Regardless of how the linebackers are playing, you can't deny their age.
Would you give 30 million dollars to Laurinaitis to play inside linebacker in the 3-4? It's absolutely insane. He'd be the highest paid linebacker in the NFL right off the bat.

WildDude
11-20-2007, 04:10 PM
ah now i will forever hate the 49ers i mean c'mon a future first for Joe Staley!? lmao and they were confident that theyd be good and the pats wouldnt get such a great first round pick puhleaze! and this basically makes their losing a first round worthless unless they wanted for some reason to trade to #1 cause thats just the pats theyre more about quanity than quality

DeathbyStat
11-20-2007, 04:10 PM
They're going to win the super bowl but i don't think they are greatest offense ever assembled.....but if they get Mcfadden they will be.

WildDude
11-20-2007, 04:14 PM
heck even Jake Long will do... i mean Laurence Maroneys legit but hey i dont see anything wrong with their line I have a feeling they'll suprise us with someone whos not worth a top 5 pick, they always do

BucSappy
11-20-2007, 04:18 PM
The Patriots won't take Mcfadden. They already have all the weapons they need on offense. Their Linebackers are getting old and their safety position could be upgraded if they wanted. Regardless of how the linebackers are playing, you can't deny their age.

Oh yeah I forgot. The Patriots only have one pick in this draft.

They can find starters in round 2 and 3. Take like Josh Barrett in round 2 and Jeremy Leman in round 3.

bearsfan_51
11-20-2007, 04:22 PM
Oh yeah I forgot. The Patriots only have one pick in this draft.

They can find starters in round 2 and 3. Take like Josh Barrett in round 2 and Jeremy Leman in round 3.

They actually have two 3rd rounders.

BucSappy
11-20-2007, 04:32 PM
They actually have two 3rd rounders.

Thanks, forgot that trade with Oakland, who as of right now would have the #2 pick in the 3rd round.

They could package their 3rd rounders and their 4th round picks to move up to #48 overall if they wanted to (420 points total).

So for a Pats mock (which I love doing because its a fun team to mock for imo):

1. (#1) Darren McFadden RB Arkansas
2. (#48) Jonathan Goff ILB Vanderbilt
3. (#64) Tracy Porter CB Indiana
4. (#160) Wesley Woodyard SS Kentucky

It's not possible for a 6th rounder to make this team imo

and if they don't trade their 3rd rounders

1. (#1) Darren McFadden RB Arkansas
2. (#64) J Leman ILB Illinois
3. (#66) Jamar Adams S Michigan
4. (#96) Trae Williams CB South Florida
5. (#128) Drew Radovich G USC (depth)

619
11-20-2007, 04:37 PM
Thanks, forgot that trade with Oakland, who as of right now would have the #2 pick in the 3rd round.

They could package their 3rd rounders and their 4th round picks to move up to #48 overall if they wanted to (420 points total).

So for a Pats mock (which I love doing because its a fun team to mock for imo):

1. (#1) Darren McFadden RB Arkansas
2. (#48) Jonathan Goff ILB Vanderbilt
3. (#64) Tracy Porter CB Indiana
4. (#160) Wesley Woodyard SS Kentucky

It's not possible for a 6th rounder to make this team imo

but long ago a forgotten soul by the name of tom brady did the improbable and made the team as a . . . . . . 6th rounder ;)

toonsterwu
11-20-2007, 04:41 PM
Trading up to the 2 spot would definitely be hard. That said, one reason a lot of those trades fizzle is because teams are looking for current assets, whereas in the Patriots case, I could see them taking 09 picks to balance out a trade. Now, they would still need a pick, if not more, this year, but I think the Patriots might be willing to look to the future, which might help.

Now all that said, I do think people are assuming that McFadden will be on the board at 2. I do think the Patriots would strongly consider McFadden due to Maroney's injury history. If I have it correct, Maroney only signed a 5 year deal. I'm starting to think that Chris Long may be the ultimate toy for BB. Here's a guy who can slide inside in occasional pass rush situations, play the 3-4 end role a bit, perhaps play an edge OLB role in the 3-4, and perhaps even be utilitzed in a different myriad of packages. He could be a great hybrid.

That said, if McFadden's gone or they opt to pass on Darren, the guess here goes to Malcolm Jenkins. I think he's got a potential top 10 grade that could rise to a top 5 grade depending on the postseason. I think it makes more sense to move Meriweather to S and draft a CB then to keep Meriweather at CB and draft a S. Interesting note is that there probably are some teams that would try Malcolm Jenkins as a dynamic safety.

Vikes99ej
11-20-2007, 04:48 PM
Have people lost that much confidence in Laurence Maroney, or do they think he needs to someone to split carries with him?

BucSappy
11-20-2007, 04:50 PM
Have people lost that much confidence in Laurence Maroney, or do they think he needs to someone to split carries with him?

It's nothing on Maroney. It's just that McFadden is a lot better than he is. And he provides insurance at the RB position.

619
11-20-2007, 05:22 PM
do u honestly need two superstars at one position when u can address more prominent needs?

Turbeauxdog
11-20-2007, 05:42 PM
If the Pats aren't able to trade down, do you think they may just sit on the clock? In other words, they just allow the clock to expire and continue to attempt to trade down until they are successful or are drafting at a position they are willing to pay for?

no love
11-20-2007, 05:46 PM
ah now i will forever hate the 49ers i mean c'mon a future first for Joe Staley!? lmao and they were confident that theyd be good and the pats wouldnt get such a great first round pick puhleaze! and this basically makes their losing a first round worthless unless they wanted for some reason to trade to #1 cause thats just the pats theyre more about quanity than quality

You can't fault the niners for making the trade. If they though Staley would eventually be a franchise LT then trading away a future 1st is not such a huge gamble. Is Staley worth trading away such a high draft pick. Of course not. But is a franchise LT + 30 million in cap space worth it? Absolutely.

It's the same reasoning that the Browns used to trade for Brady Quinn, but they gave up more.

The guy has played really well for a guy who is making such a huge jump in competition. I am actually really excited about him because of what he brings to the table athletically.

IndyColtScout
11-20-2007, 05:47 PM
Pats won't take McFadden. They have Maroney, Morris, and Faulk. They will pick a RB later on.

I actually think they will take either Chris Long or Jake Long. It's the Patriot way to pick a great trench guy. Jake Long could move to RT, and Chris Long would just give them the most stacked set of 3-4 DE's ever. I actually would take Jake Long if I were the Pats. I start him at RT and slowly move him to LT if Matt Light's play ever drops off. I also think Jake Long would be more ready to make an impact, because of the depth a DE in NE. I know it seems a little crazy with the way NE's OL is playing, but there is no doubt to me that Jake Long is an upgrade over Kazcur. Plus if Light were to get hurt, you slide Long over to LT, and Kazcur can start at RT. I think it's a smart move.

Chris Long is a great pick too. It's a win with either guy.

Either way, I don't see them picking a LB, maybe a CB but I don't see a CB going that high.

bearsfan_51
11-20-2007, 05:55 PM
If the Pats aren't able to trade down, do you think they may just sit on the clock? In other words, they just allow the clock to expire and continue to attempt to trade down until they are successful or are drafting at a position they are willing to pay for?
I said the same thing about two pages ago. I wonder how the league would react to that. It's not like they really have any say in it.

BucSappy
11-20-2007, 06:05 PM
Pats won't take McFadden. They have Maroney, Morris, and Faulk. They will pick a RB later on.

What would be the point of taking a very average RB later in the draft when you have Morris and Faulk? You aren't going to get a RB better than those guys in round 6. The logic behind taking McFadden is that he is an elite player, provides good value, and takes the offense to a different level..


I actually think they will take either Chris Long or Jake Long. It's the Patriot way to pick a great trench guy. Jake Long could move to RT, and Chris Long would just give them the most stacked set of 3-4 DE's ever. I actually would take Jake Long if I were the Pats. I start him at RT and slowly move him to LT if Matt Light's play ever drops off. I also think Jake Long would be more ready to make an impact, because of the depth a DE in NE. I know it seems a little crazy with the way NE's OL is playing, but there is no doubt to me that Jake Long is an upgrade over Kazcur. Plus if Light were to get hurt, you slide Long over to LT, and Kazcur can start at RT. I think it's a smart move.

You address here how much versatility the Pats have in their draft.

Chris Long, like previously mentioned, is the kind of hybrid player they can use. But does he take their defense to another level? With guys like Mike Vrabel, Adalius Thomas, Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Jarvis Green, I don't think he provides a lot of upside. They are so stacked at DE, I don't see Chris Long being as much of an upgrade as McFadden is to their RB corps (since he is such an elite prospect). I don't think Long is an option for this team. Plus, once they address ILB in the draft, then they can move Adalius Thomas to OLB, then where is Long going to play?

Jake Long is going to be #2 on their draft board in my opinion behind McFadden. He is an upgrade over Kazcur, but Kazcur is playing great this year, and O'Callaghan is a very capable backup. Long gives them tremendous versatility on the OL. But is he going to play better than Kazcur is right now? I have a hard time saying yes. I mean Brady isn't getting sacked AT ALL.

Darren McFadden takes their offense to another like I have mentioned a bazillion times. Maroney is very good, but he isn't elite and I don't think he will ever be. Then he is pretty unlucky with injuries, and I would rather be starting Darren McFadden than Maurice Morriss.

Also, and I'm just throwing it out there. But could the Pats trade Maroney to a team desperately needing a runningback (like the Bears or Texans) for a 2009 first round pick?

BucSappy
11-20-2007, 06:07 PM
I said the same thing about two pages ago. I wonder how the league would react to that. It's not like they really have any say in it.

I think the League would love it. Really boost draft ratings.

Geo
11-20-2007, 06:15 PM
I said the same thing about two pages ago. I wonder how the league would react to that. It's not like they really have any say in it.
The one potential sticking point is that the agent of whoever the Patriots eventually select will vehemently argue that the pick should be paid as the 2nd overall pick. And really, they might have a point in that argument.

IndyColtScout
11-20-2007, 06:15 PM
BucSappy

You know why I wouldn't draft D-Mac if I were the Pats?

The pats aren't running the ball that much. When you already have Maroney, Morris, Faulk... I don't see a whole lot of touches for DMac. Maybe he becomes the primary returner, but I don't think NE picks DMac to be a spell back/returner.

I think they should wait until round 2 or 3 maybe even later, and draft a RB they can develop. The RB would come cheaper, and would get a chance to learn behind two great vets in Morris & Faulk. In the end, the Pats could draft a RB later and that RB could have the same impact on the team that DMac could have (because of the style and depth of the offensive players).

To me it's either Jake Long, Chris Long, or trade down (in that order).

Geo
11-20-2007, 06:17 PM
Faulk isn't a spring chicken. The Patriots could draft McFadden as their ideal Faulk, as a primary receiving back who can line up out wide or in the slot.

That said, that's a heck of a lot of money to invest in a runningback.

IndyColtScout
11-20-2007, 06:19 PM
Faulk isn't a spring chicken. The Patriots could draft McFadden as their ideal Faulk, as a primary receiving back who can line up out wide or in the slot.

That said, that's a heck of a lot of money to invest in a runningback.

That's a heck of a lot of money to be investing in a backup runningback/weapon when NE already has a lot of offensive weapons to give the ball to.

BucSappy
11-20-2007, 06:22 PM
BucSappy

You know why I wouldn't draft D-Mac if I were the Pats?

The pats aren't running the ball that much. When you already have Maroney, Morris, Faulk... I don't see a whole lot of touches for DMac. Maybe he becomes the primary returner, but I don't think NE picks DMac to be a spell back/returner.

I think they should wait until round 2 or 3 maybe even later, and draft a RB they can develop. The RB would come cheaper, and would get a chance to learn behind two great vets in Morris & Faulk. In the end, the Pats could draft a RB later and that RB could have the same impact on the team that DMac could have (because of the style and depth of the offensive players).

To me it's either Jake Long, Chris Long, or trade down (in that order).

You make a great point that the Pats throw the ball a lot, therefore you make a great case that they don't even consider d-mac. But then why would they draft a RB they can develop, when they already have Maroney? I also think McFadden is a much better fit in their offense than Maroney is in the first place because he is more versatile (better overall runner, receiver, and he can even throw like Tomlinson).

And I have already mentioned why they won't draft Chris Long or trade down. I hate repeating myself. Neither of those scenarios are possible.

IndyColtScout
11-20-2007, 06:30 PM
I think the Pats do need a young RB. However, I don't see NE paying a rookie RB major money. That's why NE waits until round two or three to pick a RB. It's the money.

thebow305
11-20-2007, 06:40 PM
For the rest of the season I now find myself being the biggest Niners fan on the planet!

Geo
11-20-2007, 06:46 PM
I hear that.

keylime_5
11-20-2007, 06:47 PM
They won't take McFadden. They will trade down and rape a horribly managed team. That is the Belicheck way.

No one will trade up with them, who wants a RB that bad? RBs are a dime a dozen in the NFL these days, and you don't win with a RB the way you do with a QB anymore. I'm sick of everyone saying "We'll (or They'll) just trade down and get more picks", it doesn't work like that. Detroit wanted to trade down more than anything, but no one was offering the goods so they stayed put. McFadden, welcome to Massachussetts, hope you like winning super bowls ):(.

P-L
11-20-2007, 06:51 PM
I still think the Pats would be willing to take less to trade down. Every assumes that New England is going to be stubborn and demand a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and future pick. I think if they really want to trade down, they'll take less.

keylime_5
11-20-2007, 06:52 PM
Pats won't take McFadden. They have Maroney, Morris, and Faulk. They will pick a RB later on.

And Minnesota had Chester Taylor, Mewelde Moore, Ciatrick Faison, and Artose Pinner but drafted Peterson who was by far the BPA. New England could use Jake Long at right tackle, but they've had a stellar O-Line this year and a mediocre running game. Chris Long is out of the picture, they have Richard Seymour, Jarvis Green, and Ty Warren as their 3 really good young big DEs. And of course, Glenn Dorsey doesn't fit in their scheme at all, probably nowhere near the top of their board.

IndyColtScout
11-20-2007, 06:53 PM
And Minnesota had Chester Taylor, Mewelde Moore, Ciatrick Faison, and Artose Pinner but drafted Peterson who was by far the BPA. New England could use Jake Long at right tackle, but they've had a stellar O-Line this year and a mediocre running game. Chris Long is out of the picture, they have Richard Seymour, Jarvis Green, and Ty Warren as their 3 really good young big DEs.

Again, MIN doesn't have Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Ben Watson, Sammy Morris, and Kevin Faulk. MIN only had Chester Taylor. There were many touches available for Peterson, same for Bush in NO.

NE passes the ball way too much, won't want to pay a RB that kind of cash, and doesn't have the touches available to even consider DMac (IMO). Jake Long is the pick. Long will start at RT from day one, and like I said he is a great insurance policy at LT if something happens to Light.

keylime_5
11-20-2007, 06:54 PM
I still think the Pats would be willing to take less to trade down. Every assumes that New England is going to be stubborn and demand a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and future pick. I think if they really want to trade down, they'll take less.

Trade downs in the top 5 are rare. Only do they happen when a team really, really wants a QB (like Mike Vick or Eli Manning), and this year there is no one like that. Sure, they could use a safety, corner, or ILB, but to trade down that far for even less than the value would not be worth passing up a talent like J.Long or D.McFadden, trust me.

keylime_5
11-20-2007, 06:56 PM
Again, MIN doesn't have Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Ben Watson, Sammy Morris, and Kevin Faulk. MIN only had Chester Taylor. There were many touches available for Peterson, same for Bush in NO.

NE passes the ball way too much, won't want to pay a RB that kind of cash, and doesn't have the touches available to even consider DMac (IMO). Jake Long is the pick. Long will start at RT from day one, and like I said he is a great insurance policy at LT if something happens to Light.

They have had the best O-Line in the league this year. Maroney is only decent at best and always hurt. With McFadden and Maroney they could run the ball a lot more than they do, plus add another lethalt receiver in the backfield. McFadden grades out better than any other player in the draft, they'd pick Darren.

BucSappy
11-20-2007, 07:01 PM
I still think the Pats would be willing to take less to trade down. Every assumes that New England is going to be stubborn and demand a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and future pick. I think if they really want to trade down, they'll take less.

Yeah but they are going to want at least fair value.

And like keylime said, no one is going to trade up for a runningback. They are a dime a dozen in the NFL.

And like I said, no one is going to want to give up multiple high draft picks. It just isn't going to happen.

Geo
11-20-2007, 07:02 PM
I still think the Pats would be willing to take less to trade down. Every assumes that New England is going to be stubborn and demand a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and future pick. I think if they really want to trade down, they'll take less.
Good point, too many teams/general managers in the league are slaves to the outdated Jimmy Johnson draft value chart. And in doing so, everyone thinks they can get rich trading down than try to trade up. Add the staggering costs of rookie contracts in the Top 16, which increase with every year, and that's why we're seeing little to no trades getting done nowadays.

Bill Polian took less value (according to the draft value chart) in 1995 as the Carolina GM, when he traded the first overall pick to Cincinnati for the 5th overall pick and the 36th overall pick. He still got the player he wanted (Kerry Collins), and paid those two picks combined less than the first overall pick.

The Bengals drafted runningback Ki-jana Carter with the first overall pick, btw. Not a pick that worked out for them, due to unfortunate injuries.

IndyColtScout
11-20-2007, 07:04 PM
Throw in the fact that someone could offer NE a really good player and a first round pick. Instead of some team throwing all their day one picks at NE, a team could send a proven player along with a first and maybe future picks.

Geo
11-20-2007, 07:08 PM
I wouldn't rule that out, especially as I don't expect them to keep wide receiver Donte Stallworth past this year (when the rest of his contract begins to trigger). Belichick by all accounts seemingly prefers veterans, it's why the Patriots are the fourth oldest team in the league I believe I heard/read.

IndyColtScout
11-20-2007, 07:18 PM
All things aside, if you are an offensive juggernaut like NE, what kind of player would you rather pay the big money?

A potential all-pro RT with the ability to play LT?

or

Another offensive weapon that might touch the ball 15 times a game max?

I know why NE would draft McFadden, I just don't think they need another offensive weapon at a high price. NE already has to give Moss an ungodly contract this off-season. Why would they want to pay McFadden to? When Tom Brady is the QB of a pass heavy offense, the #1 priority should be protecting Tom Brady. Yes, NE has the best OL right now. However, Kazcur is just a solid RT. I don't ever see Nick going to the pro-bowl. Long is a potential all-pro OL. I could see Long going to the pro-bowl many times if he were coached by BB & NE. If I were Pioli, the pick has to be Jake Long.

briz222x
11-20-2007, 07:41 PM
New England will do what everyone doesnt expect them to do. Belichick will do what everyone doesnt want them to do. If you think they will pass on McFadden dont be surprised when his name is called on draft day.

LonghornsLegend
11-20-2007, 07:57 PM
Why would they even take Mcfadden...can anyone tell me how he would be used if they had him this year??? Makes absolutely no sense, why take a guy with the #2 pick, so soon after you just used a #1 pick on a rb, and on an offense that runs what 10 times a game max? They spread the field, use shotgun and air it out, ive yet to see them commit to the run, and if your going to take a player at #2 wouldnt you want a guy who can give you impact every single snap?

No way they take a rb, they have no names back there now and are dominating, the pick will be for CB more then likely with Malcolm Jenkins and they let Samuel walk, makes the most sense...yes its high for a db, but if he didnt go at 2 he wouldnt last past 6

briz222x
11-20-2007, 08:04 PM
Why would they even take Mcfadden...can anyone tell me how he would be used if they had him this year??? Makes absolutely no sense, why take a guy with the #2 pick, so soon after you just used a #1 pick on a rb, and on an offense that runs what 10 times a game max? They spread the field, use shotgun and air it out, ive yet to see them commit to the run, and if your going to take a player at #2 wouldnt you want a guy who can give you impact every single snap?

No way they take a rb, they have no names back there now and are dominating, the pick will be for CB more then likely with Malcolm Jenkins and they let Samuel walk, makes the most sense...yes its high for a db, but if he didnt go at 2 he wouldnt last past 6

the pats would run more if they could. Morris is on IR and Maroney is injured every week.

BucSappy
11-20-2007, 10:32 PM
New England will do what everyone doesnt expect them to do. Belichick will do what everyone doesnt want them to do. If you think they will pass on McFadden dont be surprised when his name is called on draft day.

That has to be some of the dumbest logic I have ever read.

First of all, Belicheck doesn't make personnell decision. I just think is really funny stuff to read that all of a sudden NFL coaches are dictators within their organization. What you don't think Bob Kraft is pissed that he had to pay the NFL 500k and sacrificed their first round pick? All of a sudden the Pats franchise is under the mercy of Bill Belicheck?

He isn't he GM, he doesn't have final say on draft day decisions.

And as of right now, it seems like people WANT New England to trade down as opposed to drafting McFadden.

"Waaaaaa. They can't draft McFadden they have Maroney! pooooooooooooo"

briz222x
11-20-2007, 11:09 PM
That has to be some of the dumbest logic I have ever read.

First of all, Belicheck doesn't make personnell decision. I just think is really funny stuff to read that all of a sudden NFL coaches are dictators within their organization. What you don't think Bob Kraft is pissed that he had to pay the NFL 500k and sacrificed their first round pick? All of a sudden the Pats franchise is under the mercy of Bill Belicheck?

He isn't he GM, he doesn't have final say on draft day decisions.

And as of right now, it seems like people WANT New England to trade down as opposed to drafting McFadden.

"Waaaaaa. They can't draft McFadden they have Maroney! pooooooooooooo"


uuhhh no BB lets Pioli do his job but if BB dont like something he will let Pioli know. BB scouts players himself and him and Pioli work in tandem, but i bet my bottom dollar BB's word has more weight. If Pioli wanted to draft a scrub BB would tell him no.

BucSappy
11-20-2007, 11:17 PM
uuhhh no BB lets Pioli do his job but if BB dont like something he will let Pioli know. BB scouts players himself and him and Pioli work in tandem, but i bet my bottom dollar BB's word has more weight. If Pioli wanted to draft a scrub BB would tell him no.

LOL So how do you know so much about the chemistry of the Patriots front office? I mean you sound like the next John Clayton.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6841/9349320x240zx0.jpg

briz222x
11-20-2007, 11:44 PM
LOL So how do you know so much about the chemistry of the Patriots front office? I mean you sound like the next John Clayton.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6841/9349320x240zx0.jpg

Dude its Belichicks team. You think Pioli drafts all the players by himself without consulting Belichick? LOL

Crow
11-21-2007, 05:24 AM
Oh yeah I forgot. The Patriots only have one pick in this draft.
Thank you.
They actually have two 3rd rounders.
Thanks, forgot that trade with Oakland, who as of right now would have the #2 pick in the 3rd round.
God damn stupid ass trade.


Anyway, Belicheat may be dirty, but he's not stupid. The Pats' ground game needs a boost. Maroney is good, but not good enough to justify passing up a talent like McFadden. Pairing them together would be pretty impressive.

Jake Long would make a lot of sense, but does he warrant such a high pick? He addresses a need, but that doesn't seem to be much of value pick.

Chris Long shouldn't even be in the conversation. He's not a LB and there's simply nowhere on the Pats DL to put him.


If they're stuck in the 2-3 range, I think they take McFadden if he's there. OLs, LBs, etc, can be found later. There are no McFaddens in Rd2-3.

barry
11-23-2007, 02:13 AM
Jake Long would make a lot of sense, but does he warrant such a high pick? He addresses a need, but that doesn't seem to be much of value pick.


let's put it this way: last year, joe thomas got drafted at #3, levi brown at #5, while jake long was voted the big 10 lineman of the year over both of them.

the knock (if any) that could be made is that he's been zone blocking for the last two seasons and would need to work on his technique. also, as his strength has been more as a run blocker rather than a pass blocker, RT might be a better fit, and it might be a stretch to draft a RT that high.

but if the pats took him, the rich would get richer.

yourfavestoner
11-23-2007, 02:29 AM
They'll draft McFadden and end up trading his rights to somebody else. Trust me.

Iamcanadian
11-23-2007, 09:21 AM
Trade downs in the top 5 are rare. Only do they happen when a team really, really wants a QB (like Mike Vick or Eli Manning), and this year there is no one like that. Sure, they could use a safety, corner, or ILB, but to trade down that far for even less than the value would not be worth passing up a talent like J.Long or D.McFadden, trust me.

I agree completely. however I think I can guarantee that NE is thinking defense, their offense is well SUPER. Their defense is getting old at a # of key positions, ILB, SS, OLB and I believe they will be looking for a replacement at one of those positions.
Everybody assumes that they know who is in the top 10 but we are a long way to finalizing them. Even the top 5 isn't close to being set in stone. I expect the juniors to dominate the draft and we just don't know who will declare as yet.

Primetime21
11-23-2007, 09:41 AM
If James Laurenitis declared I could see Patriots picking him and grooming him to be a monster in their 3-4.

If they dont go Laurenitis I can see them going Jake Long. Someone mentioned that Michigan runs a ZBS, and if I am not mistaken the Patriots have been runnng a ZBS for like 2 years. Long fits in scheme, he will add to the running game, and just imagine Long coming at you with all the screens the Patriots do.

Wishlist for Pats(IMO)
1. James Laurenitis
2. Jake Long
3. D Mac
4. Chris Long
5. Kenny Phillips

Crow
11-23-2007, 11:16 AM
Lil Animal at #2 overall? C'mon now.