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Travis 24
11-24-2007, 07:15 PM
Anyone have a list, or care to make a list of their personal top 20 players for the upcoming draft?

Well, here's mine:

Top 20 players

1. Glenn Dorsey, DT - Louisiana State
2. Chris Long, DE - Virginia
3. Darren McFadden, RB - Arkansas
4. Brian Brohm, QB - Louisville
5. Jake Long, T - Michigan
6. Vernon Gholston, DE/LB - Ohio State
7. Malcolm Jenkins, CB - Ohio State
8. Jonathan Stewart, RB - Oregon
9. Sedrick Ellis, DT - Southern California
10. Dan Connor, LB - Pennsylvania State
11. Matt Ryan, QB - Boston College
12. Mike Jenkins, CB - South Florida
13. Jordy Nelson, WR - Kansas State
14. Steve Slaton, RB - West Virginia
15. Ryan Clady, T - Boise State
16. Kenny Phillips, S - Miami
17. Calais Campbell, DE - Miami
18. Andre Woodson, QB - Kentucky
19. DeSean Jackson, WR/KR - California
20. Derrick Harvey, DE - Florida

SuperKevin
11-24-2007, 07:16 PM
Anyone have a list, or care to make a list of their personal top 20 players for the upcoming draft?

Well, here's mine:

Top 20 players

1. Glenn Dorsey, DT - Louisiana State
2. Chris Long, DE - Virginia
3. Darren McFadden, RB - Arkansas
4. Brian Brohm, QB - Louisville
5. Jake Long, T - Michigan
6. Vernon Gholston, DE/LB - Ohio State
7. Malcolm Jenkins, CB - Ohio State
8. Jonathan Stewart, RB - Oregon
9. Sedrick Ellis, DT - Southern California
10. Dan Connor, LB - Pennsylvania State
11. Matt Ryan, QB - Boston College
12. Mike Jenkins, CB - South Florida
13. Jordy Nelson, WR - Kansas State
14. Steve Slaton, RB - West Virginia
15. Ryan Clady, T - Boise State
16. Kenny Phillips, S - Miami
17. Calais Campbell, DE - Miami
18. Andre Woodson, QB - Kentucky
19. DeSean Jackson, WR/KR - California
20. Derrick Harvey, DE - Florida

Jordy Nelson the #1 WR??????

bored of education
11-24-2007, 07:21 PM
Yea Jordy Nelson number one WR? interesting

Travis 24
11-24-2007, 07:29 PM
I think he is gonna be a superstar in the NFL...He could be Terrell Owens-like. The guy has it all, he's fast as hell..6'4" 217 lbs, very athletic, strong...I know no one has him ranked very high, but I think he will absolutely sky rocket come combine time.

Babylon
11-24-2007, 07:42 PM
Jordy Nelson the #1 WR??????


In a year where you dont have a Andre Johnson or a Calvin Johnson then i dont think it's a stretch to say Nelson is as good as any one of the others.

As for that top 20 list i would have to find room for James Lauranaitis and Sam Baker

Texas Homer
11-24-2007, 07:44 PM
Top WR's
Adarius Bowman
Limas Sweed
Malcolm Kelly(If he declares)
Desean Jackson
Jordy Nelson


and No way I think that Gholston goes that high.

Travis 24
11-24-2007, 08:25 PM
Bowman is slow...Sweed and Kelly simply just do not match up to him. I'm not sure why people think these guys are better. Nelson is more productive, faster, and just as big...Plus your top 2 guys are coming off pretty serious injuries...so I'm not sure how thats gonna play into it..

DWilliams2IndyColts
11-24-2007, 09:00 PM
Top WR's
Adarius Bowman
Limas Sweed
Malcolm Kelly(If he declares)
Desean Jackson
Jordy Nelson


and No way I think that Gholston goes that high.Don't forget James Hardy and Early Doucett.

DWilliams2IndyColts
11-24-2007, 09:00 PM
Top WR's
Adarius Bowman
Limas Sweed
Malcolm Kelly(If he declares)
Desean Jackson
Jordy Nelson


and No way I think that Gholston goes that high.Don't forget James Hardy and Early Doucett.

DWilliams2IndyColts
11-24-2007, 09:01 PM
Top WR's
Adarius Bowman
Limas Sweed
Malcolm Kelly(If he declares)
Desean Jackson
Jordy Nelson


and No way I think that Gholston goes that high.Don't forget James Hardy and Early Doucett.

DWilliams2IndyColts
11-24-2007, 09:02 PM
Top WR's
Adarius Bowman
Limas Sweed
Malcolm Kelly(If he declares)
Desean Jackson
Jordy Nelson


and No way I think that Gholston goes that high.Don't forget James Hardy and Early Doucett.

soybean
11-24-2007, 09:14 PM
Don't forget James Hardy and Early Doucett.

don't forget who?

DWilliams2IndyColts
11-24-2007, 09:27 PM
1. Glen Dorsey DT LSU
2. Darren McFadden RB Arkansas
3. Chris Long DE Virginia
4. Jake Long OT Michigan
5. Malcom Jenkins CB Ohio State
6. Phil Loadholdt OT Oklahoma
7. Jonathan Stewart RB Oregon
8. Calais Campbell DE Miami
9. Sedrick Ellis DT USC
10. Kenny Phillips S Miami
11. Andre Woodson QB Kentucky
12. James Laurinaitis LB Ohio State
13. Vernon Gholston DE/LB Ohio State
14. Keith Rivers LB USC
15. Matt Ryan QB Boston College
16. Dan Connor LB Penn State
17. Brian Brohm QB Louisville
18. DeSean Jackson WR California
19. Ryan Clady OT Boise State
20. James Hardy WR Indiana

etk
11-24-2007, 10:58 PM
don't forget who?

http://www.thedjelement.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/mjones3.jpg

MIIIKE JOOOOONES

DWilliams2IndyColts
11-24-2007, 11:04 PM
http://www.thedjelement.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/mjones3.jpg

MIIIKE JOOOOONESAt least someone agrees with me.

BamaFalcon59
11-24-2007, 11:13 PM
1. Darren McFadden, RB Arkansas
2. Chris Long, DE Virginia
3. Glenn Dorsey, DT LSU
4. Jake Long, OT Michigan
5. Kenny Phillips, S Miami (Fl.)
6. Malcolm Jenkins, CB Ohio State
7. Calais Campbell, DE Miami (Fl.)
8. Brian Brohm, QB Louisville
9. DeSean Jackson, WR/ RS Cal
10. Sedrick Ellis, DT Southern Cal
11. Jonathan Stewart, RB Oregon
12. Ryan Clady, OT Boise State
13. James Laurinitis, LB Ohio State
14. Quentin Groves, DE/ OLB Auburn
15. Andre Woodson, QB Kentucky
16. Antoine Cason, CB Arizona
17. Harry Douglas, WR Louisville
18. Jeff Otah, OT Pittsburgh
19. Sam Baker, OT Southern Cal
20. Dan Connor, LB Penn. State

toonsterwu
11-25-2007, 02:25 AM
My current top 20 board:

Group 1: Darren McFadden, Jeff Otah, Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey, Jake Long

Group 2: Vernon Gholston, Malcolm Jenkins, Ryan Clady, Matt Ryan, Sedrick Ellis

Group 3: James Laurinaitis, Desean Jackson, Andre' Woodson, Kenny Phillips, Calais Campbell

Group 4: Brian Brohm, Chris Williams, Rashard Mendenhall, Aqib Talib, Derrick Harvey

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 03:49 AM
I think he is gonna be a superstar in the NFL...He could be Terrell Owens-like. The guy has it all, he's fast as hell..6'4" 217 lbs, very athletic, strong...I know no one has him ranked very high, but I think he will absolutely sky rocket come combine time.
If by fast as hell you mean not fast at all, I agree.

I like Toonster's group breakdown, here's mine.

Group 1: Darren McFadden, Glenn Dorsey, Chris Long, Jake Long, Sedrick Ellis

Group 2: Malcolm Jenkins, Andre Woodson, Matt Ryan, James Laurinaitis, Calais Campbell

Group 3: Desean Jackson, Vernon Gholston, Ryan Clady, Kenny Phillips, Brian Brohm

Group 4: Derrick Harvey, Dan Conner, Jonathan Stewart, Malcolm Kelley, Sam Baker

Travis 24
11-25-2007, 10:16 AM
If by fast as hell you mean not fast at all, I agree.



You are an idiot...

In that video, he covers 50 yards in 4.65 seconds...granted, he's already running.

If you think Jordy Nelson is not fast at all, then I'd suggest you watch him play for once..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J63y3yng_fc

Here you see him consistantly running by Oklahoma, Texas Tech defenders..

The guy is the best WR by a mile...Not even close.

toonsterwu
11-25-2007, 10:23 AM
Jordy Nelson may end up being the best WR. Only time will tell. That being said, I think it's fair to question his potential of ending up as a top 20 pick. He'd have to burn a top time and start moving up the boards. Not impossible, but as of now, it's a big task for him.

Babylon
11-25-2007, 10:52 AM
Jordy Nelson may end up being the best WR. Only time will tell. That being said, I think it's fair to question his potential of ending up as a top 20 pick. He'd have to burn a top time and start moving up the boards. Not impossible, but as of now, it's a big task for him.

Excellant point although i will ad that moving up the boards is in referance to internet boards and not scouts boards(correct me if i'm wrong).

I'm a big Nelson fan but also know how the system works, the guy that comes from the back of the pack is going to have to prove himself where as some of the others like Desean Jackson and Malcolm Kelley sort of have to prove they cant play.

Here's where i think Nelson has a chance to get into round 1. It's a group of WRs that doesnt have a real headliner, he should do real well at the combine, and you have guys like Matt Jones and Anthony Gonzalez who have made the jump and personally i think Nelson is better than both of those guys by quite a margin.

keylime_5
11-25-2007, 11:06 AM
1-Darren McFadden
2-Jake Long
3-Glenn Dorsey
4-Chris Long
5-Malcolm Jenkins
6-Vernon Gholston
7-Sedrick Ellis
8-Kenny Phillips
9-Calais Campbell
10-Ryan Clady
11-James Laurinaitis
12-Andre Woodson
13-Matt Ryan
14-Desean Jackson
15-Brian Brohm
16-Jonathan Stewart
17-Derrick Harvey
18-Aqib Talib
19-Rashard Mendenhall
20-Sam Baker
21-James Hardy

bored of education
11-25-2007, 11:15 AM
Group 1: Run Dmc, Jake Long, Gleny Dorsey, Chris Long, Malcolm Jenkins
Group 2: Vernon Gholston, Jeff Otah, Matt Ryan, Ryan Clady, James Laurinitis
Group 3: Sedrick Ellis, Kenny Phillips, Brian Brohm, Jonathan Stewart, Malcolm Kelly, Calais Campbell
Group 4: Aqib Talib, Sam Baker, Keith Rivers, Mike Jenkins, Andre Woodson, james Hardy, Quinetin Groves

jared
11-25-2007, 11:16 AM
I would say to the Jordy doubters: just make a list of all the things you look for in a wide receiver and let me know what he doesn't posess. If the best knock you can come up with is that you heard he ran a 4.65 while rehabbing a knee injury then you seriously need to re-evaluate him next to the other WR prospects. Jordy Nelson IS K-state's offense. He wears a giant flashing bullseye every week and still continues to light up Big 12 secondaries and torch All-American DB's consistently. I'll just assume bearsfan51 was joking when he said Jordy's not fast.

bored of education
11-25-2007, 11:29 AM
I'm not a doubter. I'm a realest.

MidwayMonster31
11-25-2007, 11:42 AM
Darren McFadden* RB
Glenn Dorsey DT
Chris Long DE
Jake Long OT
DeSean Jackson* WR (If he runs in the low 4.3s or high 4.2s)
Sedrick Ellis DT
Kenny Phillips* S
Matt Ryan QB
Malcolm Jenkins* CB
Andre Woodson QB
Calais Campbell* DE
Keith Rivers OLB
Vernon Gholsten* DE/OLB
James Laurinaitis* ILB
Gosder Cherilus OT
Malcolm Kelly* WR
Reggie Smith* CB/S
Ryan Clady* OT
Jonathan Stewart* RB
Dan Conner OLB

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 11:46 AM
You are an idiot...

In that video, he covers 50 yards in 4.65 seconds...granted, he's already running.

If you think Jordy Nelson is not fast at all, then I'd suggest you watch him play for once..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J63y3yng_fc

Here you see him consistantly running by Oklahoma, Texas Tech defenders..

The guy is the best WR by a mile...Not even close.

Ah yes.....in lieu of any actual argument just call names.


And youtube highlight videos. Good stuff. Really. I'm the idiot.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 11:50 AM
I would say to the Jordy doubters: just make a list of all the things you look for in a wide receiver and let me know what he doesn't posess. If the best knock you can come up with is that you heard he ran a 4.65 while rehabbing a knee injury then you seriously need to re-evaluate him next to the other WR prospects. Jordy Nelson IS K-state's offense. He wears a giant flashing bullseye every week and still continues to light up Big 12 secondaries and torch All-American DB's consistently. I'll just assume bearsfan51 was joking when he said Jordy's not fast.
I have never seen any 40 times that were below a 4.5. What I have found is a lot of K-State homers that are constantly babbling about him when seemingly nobody else cares. If you can find some substantiated evidence (ie: not youtube videos) that he has this apparent blazing speed then I would reconsider.

By the way, lighting up Big 12 secondaries is impressive how? The Big 12 is arguably the worst defensive division in football.

What I would ask, is whether or not either you or the other individual are K-State fans, because I've yet to hear anyone that isn't a K-State fan pimp his credentials, which is a HUGE red flag about his actual stock.

Travis 24
11-25-2007, 12:18 PM
Ah yes.....in lieu of any actual argument just call names.


And youtube highlight videos. Good stuff. Really. I'm the idiot.

This isn't even an arguement...You're wrong, period.

Its video of him doing it in real life, not a video game. He just ran right by Aqib Talib on a go route...nothing hidden there.

If you think Nelson is "not fast all"..I can't even begin to think how remarkably slow Bowman, Sweed, Hardy and Kelly are..because Nelson will smoke all of them.

Travis 24
11-25-2007, 12:22 PM
I have never seen any 40 times that were below a 4.5. What I have found is a lot of K-State homers that are constantly babbling about him when seemingly nobody else cares. If you can find some substantiated evidence (ie: not youtube videos) that he has this apparent blazing speed then I would reconsider.

By the way, lighting up Big 12 secondaries is impressive how? The Big 12 is arguably the worst defensive division in football.

What I would ask, is whether or not either you or the other individual are K-State fans, because I've yet to hear anyone that isn't a K-State fan pimp his credentials, which is a HUGE red flag about his actual stock.

I'm from New Jersey, and I'm a Rutgers fan...I watched him play...I watched Bowman on numerous occasions, same with Jackson, Sweed, Hardy, etc...How these guys are even considered "better" than Nelson is a joke..Nelson plays faster than all of them, he can actually go up for the ball unlike most of these recievers...and is a better athlete than all of them as well, with the exception to Jackson. Oh yeah, and he has much better hands..

Their is 1 reason, and 1 reason only people don't think Nelson is that good:

http://media.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/video/JORDYNELSON250_0611.JPG

toonsterwu
11-25-2007, 12:23 PM
I would point out that there are those that think Bowman, Sweed and Hardy might not be able to get separation in the pros, so using them as references doesn't really mean that much when debating speed. I don't believe that Sweed or Bowman are first rounders, and I don't think Hardy was ever really there.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 12:24 PM
This isn't even an arguement...You're wrong, period.

Its video of him doing it in real life, not a video game. He just ran right by Aqib Talib on a go route...nothing hidden there.

If you think Nelson is "not fast all"..I can't even begin to think how remarkably slow Bowman, Sweed, Hardy and Kelly are..because Nelson will smoke all of them.

I want you to show me quantitative data that proves that. A few highlight plays means nothing. I've never heard anything less than a 4.54 for Nelson (same as Hardy and Sweed), Scott has him as a 4.6

So, unless you have some actual proof other than youtube videos, I will continue to disregard your opinion as without merit, and I would suggest others do as well.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 12:28 PM
I'm from New Jersey, and I'm a Rutgers fan...I watched him play...I watched Bowman on numerous occasions, same with Jackson, Sweed, Hardy, etc...How these guys are even considered "better" than Nelson is a joke..Nelson plays faster than all of them, he can actually go up for the ball unlike most of these recievers...and is a better athlete than all of them as well, with the exception to Jackson. Oh yeah, and he has much better hands..

Their is 1 reason, and 1 reason only people don't think Nelson is that good:

http://media.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/video/JORDYNELSON250_0611.JPG
Solid argument. As a white person I'm much more inclined to descriminate against white people. You're showing your true colors. Goodbye.

energizerbunny
11-25-2007, 12:29 PM
I think he is gonna be a superstar in the NFL...He could be Terrell Owens-like. The guy has it all, he's fast as hell..6'4" 217 lbs, very athletic, strong...I know no one has him ranked very high, but I think he will absolutely sky rocket come combine time.


Nelson will be another 6'4 WR that all of a sudden becomes 6'2 once he gets measured.


1. McFadden
2. Jake Long
3. Chris Long
4. Malcom Jenkins
5. Glenn Dorsey
6. Vernon Gholston
7. Quintin Groves
8. Kenny Phillips
9. Mike Jenkins
10. Sedrick Ellis
11. Malcom Kelly
12. Jonathan Stewart
13. Calais Campbell
14. Chris Williams
15. Keith Rivers
16. Matt Ryan
17. Adarius Bowman
18. Ray Rice
19. Phil Loadholt
20. Fred Davis

Travis 24
11-25-2007, 12:29 PM
Why are you even bring up 40 times?...I don't care about that worthless crap. Watch them play for once.

If you can't tell Nelson is fast by watching him play, then you need help. I'd suggest you actually watch players before talking about them. Thanks.

Babylon
11-25-2007, 12:33 PM
I have never seen any 40 times that were below a 4.5. What I have found is a lot of K-State homers that are constantly babbling about him when seemingly nobody else cares. If you can find some substantiated evidence (ie: not youtube videos) that he has this apparent blazing speed then I would reconsider.

By the way, lighting up Big 12 secondaries is impressive how? The Big 12 is arguably the worst defensive division in football.

What I would ask, is whether or not either you or the other individual are K-State fans, because I've yet to hear anyone that isn't a K-State fan pimp his credentials, which is a HUGE red flag about his actual stock.

Not sure if i'm the other KSU fan because i'm really not but i do think the guy is real good and it's not true that nobody else cares so lets get that out of the way. First off i dont think you can make the blanket statement that the Big 12 is not a good defensive league. Are you trying to say that Kansas, Mizzou, Texas and Oklahoma cant play defense? if that's the case then there are a lot of guys getting drafted every year on that side of the ball that arent very good.

Let's get back to Nelson, he's had a great career there at KSU played last year with a knee and still put up numbers but kept playing. He can return kicks, block and even throw the football well enough to probablty be an emergency QB if needed. 6-3 around 215 with 120 catches and about 1600 yds this year. As for his speed i think it's good to watch games and see the footspeed in comparison to guys in secondaries like Okla. and Texas. The kid ran a 10.6 out of highschool which for anyone that knows track is probably compararable to high 4.4 forties. Give the kid a chance to show what he can do and not be so quick to follow the crowd.

Oh by the way he'd look good in a Bears uniform.:)

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 12:35 PM
Let's get back to Nelson, he's had a great career there at KSU played last year with a knee and still put up numbers but kept playing. He can return kicks, block and even throw the football well enough to probablty be an emergency QB if needed. 6-3 around 215 with 120 catches and about 1600 yds this year. As for his speed i think it's good to watch games and see the footspeed in comparison to guys in secondaries like Okla. and Texas. The kid ran a 10.6 out of highschool which for anyone that knows track is probably compararable to high 4.4 forties. Give the kid a chance to show what he can do and not be so quick to follow the crowd.

No no...I'm not saying the kid can't play, I'm saying it's ******** to say he's the top WR or will go in the top 20. I would be fine with Nelson in the 3rd or 4th round, where he would likely go if he doesn't lower his 40 time.

Anyone that says "who cares about 40's" clearly doesn't understand how the NFL draft process works. You don't run a good 40 as a WR, you don't go in the top 20 unless you have a VERY good resume otherwise.

Moses
11-25-2007, 12:39 PM
I thought Nelson ran a 10.6 100m in high school?

Babylon
11-25-2007, 12:39 PM
No no...I'm not saying the kid can't play, I'm saying it's ******** to say he's the top WR or will go in the top 20. I would be fine with Nelson in the 3rd or 4th round, where he would likely go if he doesn't lower his 40 time.

Anyone that says "who cares about 40's" clearly doesn't understand how the NFL draft process works. You don't run a good 40 as a WR, you don't go in the top 20 unless you have a VERY good resume otherwise.

So can we agree then if he runs a real good 40 (some number starting with 4.4.... and has an impressive vertical then he'll probably go late 1st or early second?

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 12:45 PM
So can we agree then if he runs a real good 40 (some number starting with 4.4.... and has an impressive vertical then he'll probably go late 1st or early second?
Well there's a big difference between a 4.4 flat and a 4.49, but I think that would drastically improve his stock, as his 40 is by far the biggest question about him now.

toonsterwu
11-25-2007, 12:46 PM
I will say that I do think Jordy Nelson has better wheels than given credit for. That said, I think Nelson has better quickness than pure speed.

If Nelson can run a low-mid 4.4 time, and post some solid numbers across the board, I think he can be in that late 1st - mid 2nd range. Right now, I think he's probably lumped in that 3rd-5th range, but WR's in that area don't really get an opportunity separate until the combines/workouts anyways.

This might be a somewhat odd comparison, but I see a slightly taller (no way do I buy 6'4", I'm not even sure 6'2") Chris Chambers.

Travis 24
11-25-2007, 12:48 PM
For starters, it was MY top 20 players...Not where I think they'll go.

Why is it stupid to think he's the best WR...because no one had him rated high to start the year...because his name isn't Sweed, Bowman or Jackson?...why?

I thought you're supposed to be choosing the best football players, that will be the best pro's...Not the guys that are well known throughout the country because they play on good teams?...I mean, if thats the logic, then by all means take DeSean Jackson and Limas Sweed first.

I want the best football players...After watching these guys, IMO, that clearly goes to Jordy Nelson by a massive wide margin.

Also, your blasting this guy for running a 4.6 LAST year?...How about we wait until the combine to say he's not that fast, which he isn't.

jared
11-25-2007, 12:49 PM
Very well bearsfan51, I'll bite. I don't know why I feel compelled to prove you wrong when you're obviously too lazy to look into anything more than a listed 40 time from 3 different draft sites. Apparently those are all the proof you need right now to doubt him. By the way, I've yet to find where those times are in any way listed as official and not simply estimates by those sites.

What are the facts? (I'll resurrect some of my points from previous posts)

1. Speed: He ran the 100m in high school in 10.63 seconds and the 200m in 21.64 (both are still standing as Kansas records for his division). For comparison, Devin Hester ran a 10.62 in the 100m in 2004, his personal best as far as I can tell. Ted Ginn's personal best is 10.5 and a 21.16 in the 200m. Reggie Bush ran a 10.42 100m. Tim Dwight's best was 10.31. I don't know about you, but I consider those guys to all be fast. http://www.directathletics.com/athle...ck/215550.html
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/502737
http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArti...&Q_SEASON=2006

Is that "quantitative" enough for you? How about the fact that he's putting up Crabtree-esque numbers on a FAR less prolific offense than Texas Tech's?

Level of competition: DB's faced (and conquered) this year:
Aqib Talib, Kansas (3rd ranked JR corner on Scott Wright's list)
Zack Bowman, Nebraska (3rd ranked SR corner on SW's list)
Dwight Lowery, San Jose St. (11th ranked SR CB)
Terrence Wheatley, Colorado (14th ranked SR CB)
Patrick Lee, Auburn (15th ranked SR CB)
Darnell Terrell, Missouri, (18th ranked SR CB)
Damon Jenkins, Fresno St (22nd ranked SR CB)
Jonathan Wilhite, Auburn (24th ranked SR CB)
Martel Van Zant, Oklahoma St (26th ranked SR CB)

That's just this year mind you, and that's just the CB's.

By the way, I'm not a big KSU fan, I'm an ASU student and fan. I like Jordy and can't see any logical reason why he is not a top 3 WR prospect.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 12:54 PM
Very well bearsfan51, I'll bite. I don't know why I feel compelled to prove you wrong when you're obviously too lazy to look into anything more than a listed 40 time from 3 different draft sites. Apparently those are all the proof you need right now to doubt him. By the way, I've yet to find where those times are in any way listed as official and not simply estimates by those sites.

What are the facts? (I'll resurrect some of my points from previous posts)

1. Speed: He ran the 100m in high school in 10.63 seconds and the 200m in 21.64 (both are still standing as Kansas records for his division). For comparison, Devin Hester ran a 10.62 in the 100m in 2004, his personal best as far as I can tell. Ted Ginn's personal best is 10.5 and a 21.16 in the 200m. Reggie Bush ran a 10.42 100m. Tim Dwight's best was 10.31. I don't know about you, but I consider those guys to all be fast. http://www.directathletics.com/athle...ck/215550.html
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/502737
http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArti...&Q_SEASON=2006

Is that "quantitative" enough for you? How about the fact that he's putting up Crabtree-esque numbers on a FAR less prolific offense than Texas Tech's?

Level of competition: DB's faced (and conquered) this year:
Aqib Talib, Kansas (3rd ranked JR corner on Scott Wright's list)
Zack Bowman, Nebraska (3rd ranked SR corner on SW's list)
Dwight Lowery, San Jose St. (11th ranked SR CB)
Terrence Wheatley, Colorado (14th ranked SR CB)
Patrick Lee, Auburn (15th ranked SR CB)
Darnell Terrell, Missouri, (18th ranked SR CB)
Damon Jenkins, Fresno St (22nd ranked SR CB)
Jonathan Wilhite, Auburn (24th ranked SR CB)
Martel Van Zant, Oklahoma St (26th ranked SR CB)

That's just this year mind you, and that's just the CB's.

By the way, I'm not a big KSU fan, I'm an ASU student and fan. I like Jordy and can't see any logical reason why he is not a top 3 WR prospect.
Haha...a little salty dude. Calm down.

If that's the case and he can replicate those numbers at the combine then like I said, his stock will jump. Did he run a bad 40 time more recently than those numbers (don't know which 3 websites you're talking about but that's where I've got my numbers)? Unquestionably. Has he rectified it since? Nope. How fast he ran in high school is good, and is probably a strong indicator of how well he'll do at the combine, but untill that happens I'll still have reservations.

Good data though, I tip my hat. Maybe it was simply him recovering from injury, but he still needs to improve his 40. That's the bottom line.

jared
11-25-2007, 01:05 PM
My point is was that I've never seen any official 40 time for him. The draft sites that list his time as a 4.6 don't say where they came up with that number (that I can find). Announcers have claimed he runs a 4.3. It doesn't matter, everyone is speculating. He was a legit track star in HS and he has made his college career out of burning DB's and returning punts for TD's. Honestly, I don't even need a 40 time to know he's fast. All I have to do is watch him play and say "hm, is that NFL CB prospect so-and-so that he just burned?...Yep, he's still fast."
He shouldn't need to be doing anything to improve his stock, he's the most productive receiver in the nation that doesn't play for Texas Tech. He has lit up everyone he's played this year. Anyone with a set of eyeballs can tell he's fast if they just sit down and watch him. Everyone knew he was fast two years ago when he exploded as a SOPH.

I guess I just get agitated because the arguments against him just don't make any sense. They're letting what a couple websites list as his 40 time (nfldraftscout, scout.com, this one) decide about 85% of their opinion of a prospect. That said, I understand how they draft works and how quirky draft stock can be. I have a sneaking suspicion that if his name was Jemetrius and he came from Compton instead of a farm in Kansas, more people would be keen on him.

P-L
11-25-2007, 03:01 PM
1. DT Glenn Dorsey, Louisiana State
2. RB Darren McFadden, Arkansas
3. OT Jake Long, Michigan
4. CB Malcolm Jenkins, Ohio State
5. DE Chris Long, Virginia

6. DT Sedrick Ellis, Southern California
7. OT Ryan Clady, Boise State
8. S Kenny Phillips, Miami (FL)
9. QB Andre Woodson, Kentucky
10. DE Vernon Gholston, Ohio State

11. QB Matt Ryan, Boston College
12. WR DeSean Jackson, California
13. WR Malcolm Kelly, Oklahoma
14. RB Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois
15. CB Aqib Talib, Kansas

16. LB James Laurinaitis, Ohio State
17. DE Calais Campbell, Miami (FL)
18. LB Keith Rivers, Southern California
19. OT Chris Williams, Vanderbilt
20. QB Brian Brohm, Louisville

HoopsDemon12
11-25-2007, 03:23 PM
#1 Glen Dorsey DT Sr.
#2 Darren McFadden RB Jr.
#3 Jake Long OT Sr.
#4 Malcolm Jenkins CB Jr.
#5 Kenny Phillips S Jr.
#6 Chris Long DE Sr.
#7 Vernon Gholston DE/OLB Jr.
#8 Sedrick Ellis DT Sr.
#9 Andre Woodson QB Sr.
#10 Malcolm Kelly WR Jr.
#11 Calais Campbell DE Jr.
#12 Phil Loadholt OT Jr.
#13 Jack Ikeguono(sp?) CB Jr.
#14 Desean Jackson WR Jr.
#15 Keith Rivers LB Sr.
#16 Rashard Mendenhall RB Jr.
#17 Dan Connor LB Sr.
#18 Matt Ryan QB Sr.
#19 Ryan Clady OT Sr.
#20 Derrick Harvey DE Jr.

Travis 24
11-25-2007, 03:43 PM
I'm just curious, but why does everyone think Woodson is the best QB..or why those 2 are both better than Brohm?

energizerbunny
11-25-2007, 07:30 PM
I'm from New Jersey, and I'm a Rutgers fan...I watched him play...I watched Bowman on numerous occasions, same with Jackson, Sweed, Hardy, etc...How these guys are even considered "better" than Nelson is a joke..Nelson plays faster than all of them, he can actually go up for the ball unlike most of these recievers...and is a better athlete than all of them as well, with the exception to Jackson. Oh yeah, and he has much better hands..

Their is 1 reason, and 1 reason only people don't think Nelson is that good:

http://media.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/video/JORDYNELSON250_0611.JPG

Unfortunately your right, white Wrs will always have to shed the Mike Haas image of being phenomenal college Wrs but for one reason or another having there pro potential questioned. Unless you have hard,strict, accurate Quantitative stats to prove their physical attributes its like trying to swim against the current trying to convince guys of their pro potential.

etk
11-25-2007, 08:41 PM
Unfortunately your right, white Wrs will always have to shed the Mike Haas image of being phenomenal college Wrs but for one reason or another having there pro potential questioned. Unless you have hard,strict, accurate Quantitative stats to prove their physical attributes its like trying to swim against the current trying to convince guys of their pro potential.

You have to consider the lack of elite white WRs in the league right now. It's unfortunate that so many great white college WRs get overlooked in the draft, but there's almost nothing that can be done to fix it until the culprits prove themselves in the league. If Nelson has an eye-opening combine he will be on the right track, but right now I have him third in that "big 4", behind Kelly & Bowman but ahead of Sweed.

jared
11-25-2007, 08:49 PM
People actually have to notice you, draft you, and start you in order to produce.

grushcow
11-25-2007, 08:57 PM
1. Darren McFadden*
2. Glenn Dorsey
3. Chris Long
4. Jake Long
5. Andre' Woodson
6. Matt Ryan
7. Calais Campbell*
8. Sedrick Ellis
9. DeSean Jackson*
10. Kenny Phillips*
11. James Laurinaitis*
12. Malcolm Jenkins*
13. Jonathan Stewart*
14. Brian Brohm
15. Ryan Clady*
16. Rey Maualuga*
17. Dan Connor
18. Keith Rivers
19. Derrick Harvey*
20. Adarius Bowman