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Crow
11-25-2007, 04:15 PM
Oakland won today, and I'm eating that up. But now we've fallen out of the top 3 in April. Why does that worry me? Two words:

Al Davis.

The worst GM in football just had a gimme draft pulled out from under him.

In all likelihood, Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey, and Darren McFadden will be off the board when we pick. As draft picks go, I really felt secure in the idea that we'd land one of these 3 and that all 3 were relative sure things. Emphasis on "relative", of course.

Now we're in a position where the upper tier of prospects is gone and we have to rely on Davis to pick a "yes" out of a bucketful of "maybes". That rarely ends well for us.


Under saner circumstances, I would handle this pretty well. I mean, we're still looking at a possible pick of the litter with regards to this year's OT class. Sedrick Ellis should be there. I could handle this.

But...


Al's a dummy, and dummies do dumb sh/t. Al will probably pass on the above players for the talented underachiever Calais Campbell. In Oakland, that type of player is a guaranteed bust.

There's also DeSean Jackson. We need a WR. Jackson is probably at the top of the class. But I'd really hate to burn a top 10 pick on him. That would hurt my heart.

And, since this is Al Davis we're talking about, I have to keep an eye out for a DB. With Stuart Schwiegert on his way out, Kenny Phillips becomes a real possibility. He's a good player, but we already have an undersized safety in Huff. We need a big banger now to take over at SS if we elect to move Huff to free.


There's just so many things that can go wrong now that seemed unlikely before. I'm quite afraid of another Davis Draft setting us back once again.

soybean
11-25-2007, 04:18 PM
team forums?

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 04:24 PM
Al Davis makes the draft so much more fun to watch.

bored of education
11-25-2007, 04:26 PM
Sedrick Ellis, Jake Long



DESEAN JACKSON you know Al loves his athletes

etk
11-25-2007, 04:28 PM
Campbell and Ellis are better prospects than Long & Dorsey. Keep your sanity and remain optimistic, your team should save money and still get a great player.

Kenny Phillips isn't undersized, but he's not a big banger. He is, however, a sure tackler and that's equally as valuable. He would be a solid selection for your defense as well.

Babylon
11-25-2007, 04:33 PM
[QUOTE=etk;746891]Campbell and Ellis are better prospects than Long & Dorsey.

They are?

D-Unit
11-25-2007, 04:34 PM
Will he take Jake Long or be afraid of taking Robert Gallery all over again?

etk
11-25-2007, 04:36 PM
They are?

Yes, according to my opinion. There is such a thing called diversity, you know that right.

Babylon
11-25-2007, 04:41 PM
Yes, according to my opinion. There is such a thing called diversity, you know that right.


I'm all for the 1st ammendment bro.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-25-2007, 04:43 PM
I still wouldn't mind Sedrick Ellis, Kenny Phillips, or maybe someone like Otah. That said, if Oakland finishes 3-13 (they have a ridiculously hard schedule ahead of them), they probably still have a shot at sneaking into the top 3.

Young Legend
11-25-2007, 04:50 PM
im realy sacred that if Long,Dorsey,McFadden and Long are gone that Davis would get a woodie for Desean Jackson..

Calais Campbell and Sedrick Ellis would be good picks for the raiders if the big 4 is gone..

Whistler6
11-25-2007, 04:58 PM
Oakland won today, and I'm eating that up. But now we've fallen out of the top 3 in April. Why does that worry me? Two words:

Al Davis.

The worst GM in football just had a gimme draft pulled out from under him.

In all likelihood, Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey, and Darren McFadden will be off the board when we pick. As draft picks go, I really felt secure in the idea that we'd land one of these 3 and that all 3 were relative sure things. Emphasis on "relative", of course.

Now we're in a position where the upper tier of prospects is gone and we have to rely on Davis to pick a "yes" out of a bucketful of "maybes". That rarely ends well for us.


Under saner circumstances, I would handle this pretty well. I mean, we're still looking at a possible pick of the litter with regards to this year's OT class. Sedrick Ellis should be there. I could handle this.

But...


Al's a dummy, and dummies do dumb sh/t. Al will probably pass on the above players for the talented underachiever Calais Campbell. In Oakland, that type of player is a guaranteed bust.

There's also DeSean Jackson. We need a WR. Jackson is probably at the top of the class. But I'd really hate to burn a top 10 pick on him. That would hurt my heart.

And, since this is Al Davis we're talking about, I have to keep an eye out for a DB. With Stuart Schwiegert on his way out, Kenny Phillips becomes a real possibility. He's a good player, but we already have an undersized safety in Huff. We need a big banger now to take over at SS if we elect to move Huff to free.


There's just so many things that can go wrong now that seemed unlikely before. I'm quite afraid of another Davis Draft setting us back once again.


dude that is so sooo weak that your worried about your team winning... That you want them to have a top 3 pick. That you root for them to lose. Ohh man

Geo
11-25-2007, 05:20 PM
Al Davis makes the draft so much more fun to watch.
http://www.sportsbastards.com/media/4/20070124-ackaldavis.jpg

I want to draft ... get off my lawn, you damn kids!

Windy
11-25-2007, 05:26 PM
Like Moonduck said the raiders have a tough schedule. The 2nd hardest from here on out.

I wouldn't mind Phillips or Jackson.

ATLDirtyBirds
11-25-2007, 05:26 PM
dude that is so sooo weak that your worried about your team winning... That you want them to have a top 3 pick. That you root for them to lose. Ohh man



Would you rather have a 6-10 or 7-9 team and miss the playoffs, or go 3-13 and get one of the top players in the country.

dcarey20
11-25-2007, 05:46 PM
Campbell and Ellis are better prospects than Long & Dorsey.

When did this happen? Long and Dorsey are the top 2 senior prospects.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 05:50 PM
Would you rather have a 6-10 or 7-9 team and miss the playoffs, or go 3-13 and get one of the top players in the country.
Easily 6-10. Losing is terrible no matter when it happens, it creates a culture that can ruin franchises (cough Lions Bengals cough). Wins at the end of the season can build momentum. Not to mention that you're a little ***** if you ever root for your team to lose.

Moses
11-25-2007, 05:53 PM
Crow got an infraction for this post? Why?

P-L
11-25-2007, 06:09 PM
Crow got an infraction for this post? Why?
Is it any of your business?

Moses
11-25-2007, 06:13 PM
Is it any of your business?

Sorry sir, I didn't know the Third Reich was operating these forums. I just find it funny that a poster makes a quality post with solid reasoning and interesting theories and receives an infraction yet genius threads like this (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15172) are left untouched. But hey, I just post here, what do I know?

If you think it belongs in the Team Forum, why not just move it there instead of infracting the guy? He's contributing positively to the forum unlike hundreds of other members and you infract him for posting this?

VoteLynnSwan
11-25-2007, 06:16 PM
Sorry sir, I didn't know the Third Reich was operating these forums. I just find it funny that a poster makes a quality post with solid reasoning and interesting theories and receives an infraction yet genius threads like this (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15172) are left untouched. But hey, I just post here, what do I know?

If you think it belongs in the Team Forum, why not just move it there instead of infracting the guy? He's contributing positively to the forum unlike hundreds of other members and you infract him for posting this?

just click the infraction icon. It says language violation, he tried to avoid the censors.

Moses
11-25-2007, 06:22 PM
just click the infraction icon. It says language violation, he tried to avoid the censors.

Ah, I see. Thanks for showing me that, I didn't know vBulletin had that functionality.

Crow
11-25-2007, 06:25 PM
Will he take Jake Long or be afraid of taking Robert Gallery all over again?
I honestly think Kiffin and Cable would be in his ear about one of the other tackles if they wanted to go that route. Long in a ZBS just seems like a bad match.

Crow
11-25-2007, 06:28 PM
dude that is so sooo weak that your worried about your team winning... That you want them to have a top 3 pick. That you root for them to lose. Ohh man
Where did I say anything about wanting them to lose? Did I not preface that post by saying I was eating up the fact that we won today? Maybe you should have someone read these posts to you next time.

Crow
11-25-2007, 06:32 PM
Is it any of your business?
You need any help getting your thong out of your crack? What kind of menstrual post was this? Lame, man. Extremely lame.

ATLDirtyBirds
11-25-2007, 06:32 PM
Easily 6-10. Losing is terrible no matter when it happens, it creates a culture that can ruin franchises (cough Lions Bengals cough). Wins at the end of the season can build momentum. Not to mention that you're a little ***** if you ever root for your team to lose.


Espically in this case with their only being 1 or 2 elite players, I'd much rather be at the top of the board, rebulding my franchise.

P-L
11-25-2007, 06:36 PM
Sorry sir, I didn't know the Third Reich was operating these forums. I just find it funny that a poster makes a quality post with solid reasoning and interesting theories and receives an infraction yet genius threads like this (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15172) are left untouched. But hey, I just post here, what do I know?

If you think it belongs in the Team Forum, why not just move it there instead of infracting the guy? He's contributing positively to the forum unlike hundreds of other members and you infract him for posting this?
I wasn't the one who infracted him, but it is completely unnecessary to ask what an infraction was for in the middle of the thread. As VLS pointed out, you can figure it out by clicking on the icon. Even if you were not aware of that, I see no reason as to why you would need to know. If you were concerned that it was unjust, a simple PM to a mod would be the way to go with that. Publicly questioning the decisions of mods is against the rules. If you have a question, a PM or e-mail is the right thing to do.

With that said, let's get back on topic and talk about the topic at hand.

bearsfan_51
11-25-2007, 06:42 PM
Espically in this case with their only being 1 or 2 elite players, I'd much rather be at the top of the board, rebulding my franchise.
Even assuming you draft 10 players and they all make your team, that's still 30-40 some guys that are returning from the prior year. It's better for them to play well, build confidence, establish what works, etc.

ATLDirtyBirds
11-25-2007, 06:44 PM
Even assuming you draft 10 players and they all make your team, that's still 30-40 some guys that are returning from the prior year. It's better for them to play well, build confidence, establish what works, etc.


I suppose. Players should be able to forget quickly though. Otherwise, they probably aren't the better players on my team.

Crow
11-25-2007, 07:24 PM
Publicly questioning the decisions of mods is against the rules.
Sounds like someone didn't get the memo...

http://www.solarnavigator.net/history/explorers_history/Adolf_Hitler_Stars_and_Stripes_Fuehrer_Dead.jpg

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-25-2007, 07:25 PM
Campbell and Ellis are better prospects than Long & Dorsey. Keep your sanity and remain optimistic, your team should save money and still get a great player.

Kenny Phillips isn't undersized, but he's not a big banger. He is, however, a sure tackler and that's equally as valuable. He would be a solid selection for your defense as well.
Ellis theres an argument to be made.But Long has been much more productive in a system that usually doesnt allow him to get after the QB like Calais's system does.Calais hasnt been as productive as many would like him.No Oakland needs safer picks to make the team better.

Crow
11-25-2007, 07:27 PM
Even assuming you draft 10 players and they all make your team, that's still 30-40 some guys that are returning from the prior year. It's better for them to play well, build confidence, establish what works, etc.
Indeed. Winning is as much about attitude and environment as it is about talent and coaching. Build belief now, and next year will turn out a lot better for you.

Crow
11-25-2007, 07:36 PM
Campbell and Ellis are better prospects than Long & Dorsey.
Um.........

superfly69
11-25-2007, 08:39 PM
We still have 5 games to go in the season. Oakland can still end up with a top 3 pick. The Jets have to play Miami next week. So that should give them 3 wins and the Rams could win one more, that would give them 3 then your right back in the running.

etk
11-25-2007, 08:44 PM
When did this happen? Long and Dorsey are the top 2 senior prospects.

Yes they are according to Scott Wright and the majority of the posters here, but I share a different opinion. I'm sorry for omitting the letters IMO at the end of my post.

Staubach12
11-25-2007, 08:44 PM
Campbell and Ellis are better prospects than Long & Dorsey.

There is no way in hell Ellis or Cambell is better than Dorsey. Dorsey's the best DT prospect since Sapp.

Moses
11-25-2007, 08:47 PM
There is no way in hell Ellis or Cambell is better than Dorsey. Dorsey's the best DT prospect since Sapp.

I think it's a bit premature to say that. I could see Ellis moving ahead of Dorsey if Ellis works out amazingly and Dorsey has a bad off-season. Stranger things have happened.

etk
11-25-2007, 08:50 PM
Ellis theres an argument to be made.But Long has been much more productive in a system that usually doesnt allow him to get after the QB like Calais's system does.Calais hasnt been as productive as many would like him.No Oakland needs safer picks to make the team better.

You make some good points. Long is BY FAR a safer pick and production is a major concern for Calais. He has been a bit disappointing this year and I think he should strongly consider returning for a 5th year. I think if he does declare and has the kind of impressive combine that I think he will, he will skyrocket like Mario Williams did. Calais won't be a leading sack-getter in the league, but he will be a dominant LDE that will drive back offensive tackles in the run game and make tackles in pursuit. He has done those things pretty well this year despite his inconsistencies in his pass rush. As a pass rusher, he needs to develop some more moves and improve his edge rush, but he can press the pocket well by driving OTs backward and moving along with the QB. He creates a lot of sacks by pressuring the QB out of the pocket. If I was Oakland I would have a tough time picking between Long & Campbell because of said reasons. Ellis is a very safe pick, though, as is KP.

D-Unit
11-25-2007, 08:50 PM
If Davis wants Chris Long, he'll get him even at the cost of giving up picks to move up a spot.

etk
11-25-2007, 09:00 PM
There is no way in hell Ellis or Cambell is better than Dorsey. Dorsey's the best DT prospect since Sapp.

According to who? Did you formulate this opinion by yourself or did you read it off another draft site?

I've said it about a million times, and there have been threads on this already, but Ellis is a better prospect. I've been watching LSU games all year with my eyes specifically on Dorsey. He locks onto the offensive line way too much and gets driven back more often than not. As a pass rusher, he tries too hard to work his handwork to the outside and doesn't get enough push in pressuring the pocket. Defensive tackles are supposed to press the pocket and disrupt the rhythm of the QB, but Dorsey doesn't do it enough. His use of leverage is poor. One thing he is great at, which does remind me of Sapp, is making tackles and plays in pursuit. He has good lateral quickness, but he's not good enough at the POA for my likes. Ellis on the other hand, is a monster and a disruptive penetrator. He gets great burst off the snap and drives back into the offensive line with good leverage. I've actually seen Ellis pancake offensive linemen on passing downs before, showing his intensity and determination. Ellis is not as good as Dorsey (or Mike Patterson) in pursuit, but he's better in just about every other aspect. Dorsey should be a solid pro with better coaching, conditioning (he tires himself out too much, a big part of the issue) and rotation (see stamina). Ellis is a guy you can plug in from the start and he will make big plays as well as remaining consistent. Top-5 pick IMO, whereas Dorsey is in the 15+ range.

NIN1984
11-25-2007, 09:17 PM
Looks like Raiders will have a top 5 pick they should probably just trade it since they don't have a 3rd round pick. They need help on the D-line, O-line and at WR and we only have 5 picks, trading looks like the best option.

keylime_5
11-25-2007, 09:28 PM
Jake Long if they lose out, maybe Vernon Gholston or Calais Campbell if they pick in the 5-10 range. Gholston seems like a good fit - freak of nature with huge arms. Had 13 sacks this year, 7 against Michigan and Wisconsin. Would be a good fit at LDE.

keylime_5
11-25-2007, 09:28 PM
Looks like Raiders will have a top 5 pick they should probably just trade it since they don't have a 3rd round pick. They need help on the D-line, O-line and at WR and we only have 5 picks, trading looks like the best option.

Easier said than done. Teams never trade down from the top 5 unless a guy like Eli Manning or Michael Vick is on the board that another team obsesses over.

Oaktown1981
11-26-2007, 12:08 AM
If the Raiders miss out on McFadden, Dorsey, C.Long I think S.Ellis is the best option.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-26-2007, 04:13 AM
Sometimes I think that Sedrick Ellis might be the best fix for the Raider defense.

Dorsey is a very nice player, but I think he'd have a bigger impact (at least off the bat) on passing downs. Chris Long is still probably my favorite potential pick just in terms of security, but I don't think that weakness at RE is what's causing most of our problems in the run game.

Ellis plays with a great base, gets consistent leverage, and has tremendous strength. Terdell Sands hasn't been able to convince anyone that he was worth the contract he was given, and I'm not sure the Raiders have another defensive tackle who can be relied upon to not get blown off the ball.

Young Legend
11-26-2007, 11:46 AM
even Sam Baker would be a good pick..fills a HUGE need.with Sims contract up at the end of the Year..(THANK GOD)..Might be a reach if they pick in the 5-8 range but its a HUGE need..and i think a guy like Baker would fit perfect at LT for the raiders..

Oaktown1981
11-26-2007, 12:20 PM
Sims contract isn't up at the end of this year.

Crow
11-26-2007, 01:00 PM
If Davis wants Chris Long, he'll get him even at the cost of giving up picks to move up a spot.
Had we not pissed away our 3rd & 5th round draft picks already, I could definitely see it. Would we sacrifice our 2nd round pick to move up for Long? Wow. I don't think Al will be that enamored with any one prospect. He'll toss a 3 into a trade without blinking. He's shown that. But a 2?

Maybe we can send a 4 and a couple players, but...who would want any of our players?
Jake Long if they lose out, maybe Vernon Gholston or Calais Campbell if they pick in the 5-10 range. Gholston seems like a good fit - freak of nature with huge arms. Had 13 sacks this year, 7 against Michigan and Wisconsin. Would be a good fit at LDE.
I'm not opposed to replacing Burgess at LE. Dude looks like he's starving. If he's over 230 right now, I'd be amazed.
Sometimes I think that Sedrick Ellis might be the best fix for the Raider defense.

Dorsey is a very nice player, but I think he'd have a bigger impact (at least off the bat) on passing downs. Chris Long is still probably my favorite potential pick just in terms of security, but I don't think that weakness at RE is what's causing most of our problems in the run game.

Ellis plays with a great base, gets consistent leverage, and has tremendous strength. Terdell Sands hasn't been able to convince anyone that he was worth the contract he was given, and I'm not sure the Raiders have another defensive tackle who can be relied upon to not get blown off the ball.
A case can definitely be made for Ellis, no doubt. I don't know if he'd be the best choice in terms of fixing our run defense, but he'd certainly be a godsend on passing downs.

no love
11-26-2007, 07:09 PM
Dorsey is a very nice player, but I think he'd have a bigger impact (at least off the bat) on passing downs. Chris Long is still probably my favorite potential pick just in terms of security, but I don't think that weakness at RE is what's causing most of our problems in the run game.


I might be completely off base on this, but aren't the Raiders like one big family? Once a Raider, always a Raider type deal?

I see Al Davis just dying (literally) to pick up the son of his former HOFer. And he could certainly do worse. Long has a never say die attitude that just makes him seem like the face of the franchise (more so than Jamarcus).

And I think Long will bring the intensity and leadership to elevate the other players on that D.

Windy
11-26-2007, 07:18 PM
I might be completely off base on this, but aren't the Raiders like one big family? Once a Raider, always a Raider type deal?

I see Al Davis just dying (literally) to pick up the son of his former HOFer. And he could certainly do worse. Long has a never say die attitude that just makes him seem like the face of the franchise (more so than Jamarcus).

And I think Long will bring the intensity and leadership to elevate the other players on that D.

yea, al has a thing for relatives of former players. especially the former players that he is close to. i could see him trading up to get long.

619
11-26-2007, 07:25 PM
Oakland won today, and I'm eating that up. But now we've fallen out of the top 3 in April. Why does that worry me? Two words:

Al Davis.

The worst GM in football just had a gimme draft pulled out from under him.

In all likelihood, Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey, and Darren McFadden will be off the board when we pick. As draft picks go, I really felt secure in the idea that we'd land one of these 3 and that all 3 were relative sure things. Emphasis on "relative", of course.

Now we're in a position where the upper tier of prospects is gone and we have to rely on Davis to pick a "yes" out of a bucketful of "maybes". That rarely ends well for us.


Under saner circumstances, I would handle this pretty well. I mean, we're still looking at a possible pick of the litter with regards to this year's OT class. Sedrick Ellis should be there. I could handle this.

But...


Al's a dummy, and dummies do dumb sh/t. Al will probably pass on the above players for the talented underachiever Calais Campbell. In Oakland, that type of player is a guaranteed bust.

There's also DeSean Jackson. We need a WR. Jackson is probably at the top of the class. But I'd really hate to burn a top 10 pick on him. That would hurt my heart.

And, since this is Al Davis we're talking about, I have to keep an eye out for a DB. With Stuart Schwiegert on his way out, Kenny Phillips becomes a real possibility. He's a good player, but we already have an undersized safety in Huff. We need a big banger now to take over at SS if we elect to move Huff to free.


There's just so many things that can go wrong now that seemed unlikely before. I'm quite afraid of another Davis Draft setting us back once again.

i thought about it but im like **** it im tired of this losing culture even if it means a worse drafting position and the possibility of missing out on the big 3. theres just a time where u have to take the next step as a franchise or else this is gonna be the case year after year and we will never dig ourselves out of this hole. whether its a win or two more on the season who cares it looks better and atleast shows some improvement.

D-Unit
11-26-2007, 07:30 PM
yea, al has a thing for relatives of former players. especially the former players that he is close to. i could see him trading up to get long.
He's spent one too many combines sitting next to Parcells in the bleachers.

Babylon
11-26-2007, 07:34 PM
I might be completely off base on this, but aren't the Raiders like one big family? Once a Raider, always a Raider type deal?

I see Al Davis just dying (literally) to pick up the son of his former HOFer. And he could certainly do worse. Long has a never say die attitude that just makes him seem like the face of the franchise (more so than Jamarcus).

And I think Long will bring the intensity and leadership to elevate the other players on that D.

Totally agree and i think Chris could fall to them, if Atlanta is locked into Brohm, Mcfadden goes 1st or 2nd, Jake Long goes to the Rams.......C. Long could easily end up in Oakland.

Oaktown1981
11-26-2007, 08:24 PM
Chris Long would be a great pick for the Raiders.

Whistler6
11-26-2007, 09:45 PM
Easily 6-10. Losing is terrible no matter when it happens, it creates a culture that can ruin franchises (cough Lions Bengals cough). Wins at the end of the season can build momentum. Not to mention that you're a little ***** if you ever root for your team to lose.


Exactly. Green Bay was 4-8 last season looking at a top pick. Yeah I thought of getting a top 3 pick. But they won their last 4, ended up 8-8 with the 16th pick, and now they are 10-1. I will never root for a team to lose in order to pick up a top draft pick. I understand why some people do, but it's not for me

bored of education
11-26-2007, 10:03 PM
With the 3rd pick in the 2008 NFL draft the Oakland Raiders select:

DeSean Jackson Athlete, University of California


He might be the next D-Hester

619
11-26-2007, 10:07 PM
With the 3rd pick in the 2008 NFL draft the Oakland Raiders select:

DeSean Jackson Athlete, University of California


He might be the next D-Hester

no because unlike hester hes a receiver first, returner second

Sniper
11-26-2007, 10:22 PM
no because unlike hester hes a receiver first, returner second

An overrated receiver, but a receiver.

etk
11-26-2007, 10:37 PM
With the 3rd pick in the 2008 NFL draft the Oakland Raiders select:

DeSean Jackson Athlete, University of California


He might be the next D-Hester

Jackson isn't a good enough kickoff returner to be the next Hester. More of a Roscoe Parrish if you ask me.

nobodyinparticular
11-26-2007, 10:42 PM
Had we not pissed away our 3rd & 5th round draft picks already, I could definitely see it. Would we sacrifice our 2nd round pick to move up for Long? Wow. I don't think Al will be that enamored with any one prospect. He'll toss a 3 into a trade without blinking. He's shown that. But a 2?

Maybe we can send a 4 and a couple players, but...who would want any of our players?

I'm not opposed to replacing Burgess at LE. Dude looks like he's starving. If he's over 230 right now, I'd be amazed.

A case can definitely be made for Ellis, no doubt. I don't know if he'd be the best choice in terms of fixing our run defense, but he'd certainly be a godsend on passing downs.

Maybe these go together. Bear with me now, I'm just thinking aloud right now, but I have an interesting idea. Right now we have 2 very similar players in Chris Clemons and Derrick Burgess. Neither is the best at stopping the run, but both are pretty darn good at getting at the QB. Now Burgess is looking for a new contract, but he's almost 30 and he just missed quite a few games with a leg injury--which is exactly why he wasn't productive in Philly, he couldn't actually get on the field. We've got Tommy Kelly who can be a 3-tech DT, but like many undersized DTs he needs a big DT next to him to allow him to do well. Drafting Ellis most certainly would not fulfill that and while Dorsey is no Ted Washington or Sam Adams, he is a big DT in the mold of Kris Jenkins who demands the attention of 2 blockers. If we miss out on Dorsey we could still draft Ellis, trade Burgess and replace him at LE with Tommy Kelly who is a pretty darn good elephant end.

He's not going to rack up the sacks but he'll get a few and Kelly will do a good job of keeping the offensive line from getting their hands on our LBs. Clemons stays at RE where he will be a starter and Ellis plays the 3-tech. That leaves a need of a 2-gap NT still, but the Burgess trade would get us more pieces (2nd rounder? 3rd?) to work with and we would have a younger sack artist at DE and our run defense would be upgraded as well by keeping Kelly out at LE. Our pass rush up the middle would also be greatly upgraded with Ellis in there who I feel could do very well in a Rod Coleman-like role.

To fill that 2-gap hole, we could continue to use Terd as well as drafting someone later on like Red Bryant or find a fatty in free agency. These moves would keep us young and set the defense up for a run at the playoffs in the next couple years as well as seemingly upgrading the run defense and pass rush for now and later. It's just a thought...

Crow
11-27-2007, 01:45 PM
If we took Dorsey/Ellis in Rd1 and Red Bryant in Rd2, I'd do backflips. And, more importantly, so would our LBs.

Depending on the compensation, I'd be open to moving Burgess prior to the draft. If we couldn't worm a first day pick out of someone, I'd just as soon hold on to him and let him try his hand as a SAM backer, or simply use him as a nickle pass rusher.

TK's contract is up. He's coming off of injury. Do we re-sign him? How badly is he hurt?

As for starting him at LE, if you saw how easily KC sealed off Burgess' side while they were making Kolby Smith look like LT, you can pretty much guess how I'd feel about that.

Our division, all 4 teams, run to set up the pass. Everything these teams do is based on their success running the ball. So if we can bulk up our DL to stop the run, I'm very much willing to sacrifice some pass rush to get that done. If that means 300+ pounders across the line, so be it. We're not exactly getting much pressure with our current group anyway.

I like Burgess and Clemons as role players right now. I'm not a fan of having either start. If we'd ever try blitzing once in a while, I think these two guys would make some really interesting rush LBs on passing downs.

Bah. Anyway. Following nip's lead and thinking out loud.

Mr. Stiller
11-27-2007, 02:34 PM
According to who? Did you formulate this opinion by yourself or did you read it off another draft site?

I've said it about a million times, and there have been threads on this already, but Ellis is a better prospect. I've been watching LSU games all year with my eyes specifically on Dorsey. He locks onto the offensive line way too much and gets driven back more often than not. As a pass rusher, he tries too hard to work his handwork to the outside and doesn't get enough push in pressuring the pocket. Defensive tackles are supposed to press the pocket and disrupt the rhythm of the QB, but Dorsey doesn't do it enough. His use of leverage is poor. One thing he is great at, which does remind me of Sapp, is making tackles and plays in pursuit. He has good lateral quickness, but he's not good enough at the POA for my likes. Ellis on the other hand, is a monster and a disruptive penetrator. He gets great burst off the snap and drives back into the offensive line with good leverage. I've actually seen Ellis pancake offensive linemen on passing downs before, showing his intensity and determination. Ellis is not as good as Dorsey (or Mike Patterson) in pursuit, but he's better in just about every other aspect. Dorsey should be a solid pro with better coaching, conditioning (he tires himself out too much, a big part of the issue) and rotation (see stamina). Ellis is a guy you can plug in from the start and he will make big plays as well as remaining consistent. Top-5 pick IMO, whereas Dorsey is in the 15+ range.

You're not crazy. I see the same things.