PDA

View Full Version : Michael Johnson, Jr. DE, Georgia Tech (6-7, 250)


TitanHope
11-27-2007, 09:17 PM
To be honest, I've only seen one Georgia Tech game this season. It was the GT vs Clemson game, and I wasn't really paying attention. But, every once in a while, I'd look at the screen and go, "Wow, that #93 is pretty good." He was a great pass rusher, and I was really impressed. I heard his name fairly quickly, and figured he was a starter and that I probably didn't know anything another person didn't. So the game eventually ended, and I'd go on to another game. As the season progressed, I'd pass over other GT games but wouldn't dwindle on them long enough to see how Johnson played. So, I have only one game to base my opinion on. Curiousity got the best of me, and I looked the Scott's rankings and saw Darrell Robertson (A solid prospect in his own right) and Adamm Oliver, but no Johnson. So I went searching, and I came up on GT's depth chart, and saw that Johnson backed up Robertson.

Johnson stands a whopping 6'7, and physically looks like an athletic specimen. And the best thing is that he was recruited as a Tight End (In the same class as Martellus Bennett, Chase Coffman, and Jermichael Finley), but I'm assuming they switched him to DE eventually. So he hasn't even been primarily a DE for very long, so I'm assuming that his ceiling is even higher now. He's 250 pounds, but since he's so tall, I really can't say he's undersized. If he gains another 10 pounds or so, wow... He's only a junior, and I don't know if he's coming out or where he'll project to. But since Chan Gailey has been fired, he may leave. I mean, this guy could be a monster...

So I'm wondering if anyone else has any information on this guy, and to announce I have a huge man crush on him. Specifically defensive stats such as sacks, as I can't find any and don't know where else to look. Thanks.

draftguru151
11-27-2007, 09:49 PM
I'd think he'd be a ban idea if he did come out. Like you mentioned, he doesn't start. He has a crazy amount of potential with the height and athleticism, but he needs to stay and get more refined and gain some weight. Definitely a guy to watch next year though.

Vikes99ej
11-27-2007, 09:53 PM
This year he had 20 total tackles and 4 sacks. I'm high on him, too. I'll watch for him next year.

themaninblack
11-27-2007, 09:55 PM
ya i noticed him last year on the KICKOFF team and was completely stunned. hes very athletic thats for sure. ill be lookin out for him next year.

TitanHope
11-27-2007, 10:24 PM
Currently, Michael Johnson and George Selvie are undoubtedly my top two DE's to watch next year. Johnson for the potential and Selvie for the production.

vatech=accdomination
11-28-2007, 07:00 AM
he jumped and blocked a field goal against VT this year, he has an insane vertical to go with everything else.

Brent
11-28-2007, 07:25 AM
I hear he can fly, too.

asmitty45
11-28-2007, 11:47 AM
I'll definitely remember the name now.

TitanHope
11-28-2007, 01:26 PM
So, you have a Johnson on your mind?

Ohhhhhhhhhh snap!

Don Vito
11-28-2007, 01:38 PM
He reminds me a lot of Kalimba Edwards when he was at South Carolina. Johnson is certainly a great athlete for a 6'7 250 DE but he will need to bulk up to make it in the NFL in my opinon, he is a legit prospect who would definitely benefit from another year at GT.

CARDIAC CAT 7
11-28-2007, 02:30 PM
Hes one of the Top 5 Junior Draft Prospects at DE for me
- C. Campbell , MIAFL
- V. Gholston , tOSU
- T. Jackson, LSU
- D. Harvey , UF
- M. Johnson , GT
All 4 of the other DE's could leave, im pretty sure atleast 2 of them will leave because its a average DE class in my opinion. In my mind hes a Fringe 1st Rounder for next year, if he adds some pounds could be a lock for 1st Rnd.

BamaFalcon59
11-28-2007, 04:13 PM
He blocked a field goal against Virginia Tech without moving upfield. He just jumped. So I'll be watching.

no love
11-28-2007, 04:36 PM
Any chance he could be an OLB in the 34. From what it sounds the guy is pretty athletic...

619
11-28-2007, 04:37 PM
Any chance he could be an OLB in the 34. From what it sounds the guy is pretty athletic...

that would be one monster of an OLB!

SuperKevin
11-28-2007, 05:14 PM
Any chance he could be an OLB in the 34. From what it sounds the guy is pretty athletic...

Seems like a waste to drop a guy like that back when he can be so effective at disrupting plays at the line of scrimmage.

brat316
11-28-2007, 05:22 PM
Seems like a waste to drop a guy like that back when he can be so effective at disrupting plays at the line of scrimmage.

I don't it depends, how well of a pass rusher he is, and how quick he can get into the backfield and get at a RB. Kind of like Campbell, it would be a bad idea to put him at 3-b olb.

draftguru151
11-28-2007, 06:59 PM
He's played some there at GT, so I guess it could happen.

JDB7821
11-29-2007, 01:07 AM
I live near Atlanta and I closely follow GT and UGA. Michael Johnson, along with freshman Morgan Burnett, are the two most impressive defensive players in a very impressive defensive scheme that Tech has. Michael Johnson is an absolute beast, but it would be a bad, bad move to come out this year. He is set for a MONSTER year at DE, trust me on that one. I have seen him play many, many times and he is absolutely the best on that defense. And trust me...you want to know who Morgan Burnett is for the future. He's good. Very good.

SenorGato
11-29-2007, 01:17 AM
Seems like a waste to drop a guy like that back when he can be so effective at disrupting plays at the line of scrimmage.

True, but I think he'd be absolutely nasty as a pass rushing DE/OLB.

At the size he is right now, he'd be a pretty damn good one. But I think he puts on weight and becomes a big, nasty 4-3 DE.

TitanHope
12-01-2007, 12:24 AM
If he's at 250, I don't see why he can't gain around 15 pounds by draft time. A 6'7 265 RE would be sick in a 4-3 scheme, and with his athleticism, he'd be the Freak 2.0.

Kmtravis87
05-07-2008, 01:53 PM
Born February 7, 1987... full name is Michael D. Johnson... parents are Samuel and Thomasene Johnson... Samuel is a Vietnam veteran (marines) and earned the Purple Heart... majoring in management.



GAME-BY-GAME STATISTICS
2006 P-A-T TFL Sks FC FR Int PB
ND DNP-INJURED
Samford DNP-INJURED
Troy 4-1-5 1-11 1-11 1 0 0 2
Virginia 1-0-1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Va Tech 0-2-2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Maryland 4-1-5 2-18 2-18 0 0 0 0
Clemson 0-0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Miami 5-0-5 2-14 1-10 0 0 0 0
NC State 0-0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0
UNC 0-1-1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Duke 2-0-2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Georgia* 4-1-5 0 0 0 0 0 0
Wake 4-0-4 1-9 1-9 2 0 0 0
West Va 0-1-1 0 0 0 0 0 0
B>
CAREER STATISTICS
Year G-GS P-A Tkl TFL Sck FC FR Int PB
2005 11-0 5-1 6 1-4 1-4 1 0 0 0
2006 12-1 25-9 34 6-52 5-48 3 0 0 2
Total 23-1 30-10 40 7-56 6-52 4 0 0 2

CAREER HIGHS
Tackles: 5 vs. Troy, Maryland, Georgia 2006
TFL: 2 vs. Maryland, 2006
Sacks: 2 vs. Maryland, 2006
PB: 2 vs. Troy, 2006
FC: 2 vs. Wake Forest, 2006




We went to high school at Dallas County

CJSchneider
05-07-2008, 02:02 PM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22073&page=3

I called this one at the end of April. If it comes true,... man am I good.

CC.SD
05-07-2008, 02:36 PM
LOL at Johnson as a 3-4 OLB. The guy is custom made to be a 4-3 DE. He's got the frame to add more weight and he's already got a lot of pass rushing prowess.

P-L
05-07-2008, 03:08 PM
I really think Johnson is overrated right now. He's got all the potential in the world, but he's got to put it all together first. He's still too small and lanky. When it comes time for the draft 250-ish is considered on the small side for an End that is 6'3" or 6'4". Johnson is 6'6" or 6'7" and 250 lbs. He's got the frame to add weight, but will he lose speed or athleticism if he does?

Johnson is definitely someone who I will be paying major attention to this season, but I think he's very overhyped right now. I've seen him in the top five or even top two in some early 2009 mock drafts. As much potential as he has, he doesn't warrant that high of a pick on potential alone.

Paranoidmoonduck
05-07-2008, 04:10 PM
P-L, I'd argue that any mock done during this time of year is purely based on potential. You try and identify the players with the ability to be top picks who you think could have the sort of breakout that would propel them that high. It's why you see people like Matthew Stafford going high in a lot of mocks.

TheIncredibleDraftDude
05-07-2008, 04:49 PM
Along with T.Jackson he stands out as the clearcut #1 for 2009 right now.

Jakey
05-07-2008, 05:00 PM
Along with T.Jackson he stands out as the clearcut #1 for 2009 right now.

Has he got position flexibilty???

The Legend
05-07-2008, 05:00 PM
I hear he can fly, too.

yeah i thought his arms look like wings

SouthernComfort
05-07-2008, 05:12 PM
Has he got position flexibilty???

Of course. Another 100 pounds and he would be a mean nose tackle.

-rolls eyes-


No. He is sculpted by God to be a 4-3 DE. Don't get cute with changing positions when a player's body is a perfect fit scheme-wise. And I don't see him adding 60 pounds to play 3-4 DE. It doesn't make sense in terms of his skill set or his potential money-earnings as a 4-3 DE. So I stand by my comment.

Jakey
05-07-2008, 05:13 PM
-rolls eyes-


No. He is sculpted by God to be a 4-3 DE. Don't get cute with changing positions when a player's body is a perfect fit scheme-wise. And I don't see him adding 60 pounds to play 3-4 DE. It doesn't make sense in terms of his skill set or his potential money-earnings as a 4-3 DE. So I stand by my comment.

Haha...i set that up deliberately! You ruined it! :p

SouthernComfort
05-07-2008, 05:22 PM
Haha...i set that up deliberately! You ruined it! :p
My bad. Ran into that setup like Wile E. himself.

no love
05-07-2008, 09:46 PM
Calais Campbell part II. Will be overhyped in the season and will fall due to inconsistency and poor technique.

BamaFalcon59
05-07-2008, 10:16 PM
Has he got position flexibilty???

With his size and speed, I'm thinking wide receiver. Could be what LeBron James would have been.

BroadwayJoe10
05-07-2008, 11:44 PM
With his size and speed, I'm thinking wide receiver. Could be what LeBron James would have been.

I always wonder how good he would have been, wouldn't surprise me if he was an elite WR; besides being an unreal athlete, he has an unbelievable work ethic.

Unbiased
05-08-2008, 12:20 AM
Calais Campbell part II. Will be overhyped in the season and will fall due to inconsistency and poor technique.

What's wrong with his technique?

CARDIAC CAT 7
05-08-2008, 12:23 AM
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa202/HankAaron755/MichaelJohnson93.jpg

Can I get a Thread Closed. Guys a freak :o

Sniper
05-08-2008, 01:24 AM
-rolls eyes-


No. He is sculpted by God to be a 4-3 DE. Don't get cute with changing positions when a player's body is a perfect fit scheme-wise. And I don't see him adding 60 pounds to play 3-4 DE. It doesn't make sense in terms of his skill set or his potential money-earnings as a 4-3 DE. So I stand by my comment.

Make him put on like 50 pounds and you have a dominant OL prospect...

Locc*
05-08-2008, 01:46 AM
or he can lose 50 pounds and be a punter

rockio42
05-08-2008, 01:04 PM
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa202/HankAaron755/MichaelJohnson93.jpg

Can I get a Thread Closed. Guys a freak :o

Im jumping on this band wagon and aint jumping off ever, I usually pick a few guys every year that I pay amazing attention too and this guy is already on my list

DraftKidWonder
05-10-2008, 07:18 PM
I'm not jumping on Michael Johnson's hype train. He hasn't proved he can start. He is Georgia Tech's D version of Calvin Johnson but I see him as more of a faster Calias Campbell, Calias Campbell 2.0 per say.

He is a freak athlete though.

draftguru151
05-10-2008, 10:44 PM
I'm not jumping on Michael Johnson's hype train. He hasn't proved he can start. He is Georgia Tech's D version of Calvin Johnson but I see him as more of a faster Calias Campbell, Calias Campbell 2.0 per say.

He is a freak athlete though.

Campbell started for 2 years, one of which was a 10 sack season. Don't really get that comment (someone else mentioned that, Johnson is also nothing like Campbell other than he is tall).

TitanHope
05-10-2008, 11:13 PM
I don't get the Campbell comparison either. He hasn't had that much starting time, so how can his technique be accurately critiqued? He also tallied 5 sacks in a backup role, as opposed to Campbell's 6 sacks as a starter. Maybe a better pass-rusher, but worse run-supporter. Johnson's a better athlete too. Other than Calais being the #1 DE at this point last year, I don't see the resemblence. In fact, I wouldn't even say Johnson is the #1 DE with Tyson Jackson out of Dorsey's shadow and George Selvie's season last year. Only people who've done their homework know of Michael Johnson.

Btw, how high is that vertical?! His junk is at the OLineman's helmet!

DragonFireKai
05-10-2008, 11:59 PM
I don't get the Campbell comparison either. He hasn't had that much starting time, so how can his technique be accurately critiqued? He also tallied 5 sacks in a backup role, as opposed to Campbell's 6 sacks as a starter. Maybe a better pass-rusher, but worse run-supporter. Johnson's a better athlete too. Other than Calais being the #1 DE at this point last year, I don't see the resemblence. In fact, I wouldn't even say Johnson is the #1 DE with Tyson Jackson out of Dorsey's shadow and George Selvie's season last year. Only people who've done their homework know of Michael Johnson.

His sophmore year and Campbell's Freshman year are very similar. And Campbell had ten sacks as a sophmore starter, Johnson had 4 as a junior starter. Johnson's extremely raw, and needs to put on 15 to 20 lbs to be able to stand up at the point of attack in the NFL. It's a very valid comparison, because Campbell had shown himself to be a more complete end in college, and his stock still slipped.

Btw, how high is that vertical?! His junk is at the OLineman's helmet!

Well, that's Brandon Cox he's jumping over, and he's 6'4". If we assume Johnson's inseam is similar to mine, we're looking at 38 inches. 76 inches -38inches gives us a 38 inch vert. Good but not mind blowing.

Dam8610
05-11-2008, 01:04 AM
His sophmore year and Campbell's Freshman year are very similar. And Campbell had ten sacks as a sophmore starter, Johnson had 4 as a junior starter. Johnson's extremely raw, and needs to put on 15 to 20 lbs to be able to stand up at the point of attack in the NFL. It's a very valid comparison, because Campbell had shown himself to be a more complete end in college, and his stock still slipped.

Calais Campbell's stock slipped because he was extremely slow. If this guy is as good of an athlete as people are making him out to be, that won't be a problem for him.

PACKmanN
05-11-2008, 03:17 AM
how about a Manny Lawson comparison?

Dam8610
05-11-2008, 03:31 AM
how about a Manny Lawson comparison?

A taller Manny Lawson? Sure, if he runs that fast.

PACKmanN
05-11-2008, 03:36 AM
A taller Manny Lawson? Sure, if he runs that fast.

I truly doubt Johnson is even 6'7, that is WAY too tall. Manny is also 6'5-6'6 so the height differences isn't much.

DragonFireKai
05-11-2008, 04:20 AM
Calais Campbell's stock slipped because he was extremely slow. If this guy is as good of an athlete as people are making him out to be, that won't be a problem for him.

His stock was dropping beforehand due to the weak junior year. He went from a potential top ten pick, to a borderline first rounder, once he ran at the combine, he slipped into the second round. Johnson has a very real chance to do likewise if he stays around 250 when combined with his marginal production. Unless he puts up a DeMarcus Ware type workout, which I wouldn't put past him, but unless he seriously ups his production this season, he'll be most comperable to Quentin Groves.

TitanHope
05-11-2008, 04:28 AM
I truly doubt Johnson is even 6'7, that is WAY too tall. Manny is also 6'5-6'6 so the height differences isn't much.

There have been two 6'7 DE's drafted over the past three seasons in Mario Williams and Calais Campbell. Another 6'7 DE isn't that unbelievable, and even if he's only 6'6 or even 6'5, he still has great height.

His sophmore year and Campbell's Freshman year are very similar. And Campbell had ten sacks as a sophmore starter, Johnson had 4 as a junior starter. Johnson's extremely raw, and needs to put on 15 to 20 lbs to be able to stand up at the point of attack in the NFL. It's a very valid comparison, because Campbell had shown himself to be a more complete end in college, and his stock still slipped.

I was under the impression that Johnson was a backup last year, and saw time mostly during passing downs.

As far as the comparison goes, I still don't see how these two players compare to each other. I don't think Johnson will be drafted to play 3-4 DE like Campbell was, so they're not similar DE's. They're not even in the same situations, as Campbell was a starter since a sophomore and Johnson isn't. Campbell is an every-down DE, and Johnson is a pass-rushing DE. Tyson Jackson seems to be a better comparison to Campbell than Johnson is.

PACKmanN
05-11-2008, 04:36 AM
There have been two 6'7 DE's drafted over the past three seasons in Mario Williams and Calais Campbell. Another 6'7 DE isn't that unbelievable, and even if he's only 6'6 or even 6'5, he still has great height.



I was under the impression that Johnson was a backup last year, and saw time mostly during passing downs.

As far as the comparison goes, I still don't see how these two players compare to each other. I don't think Johnson will be drafted to play 3-4 DE like Campbell was, so they're not similar DE's. They're not even in the same situations, as Campbell was a starter since a sophomore and Johnson isn't. Campbell is an every-down DE, and Johnson is a pass-rushing DE. Tyson Jackson seems to be a better comparison to Campbell than Johnson is.

Well some sites have these guys listed from 6'6 to 6'8, I don't know why. But like I said, there isn't much of a height difference. It 1-2 inches.

draftguru151
05-11-2008, 08:14 AM
There have been two 6'7 DE's drafted over the past three seasons in Mario Williams and Calais Campbell. Another 6'7 DE isn't that unbelievable, and even if he's only 6'6 or even 6'5, he still has great height.



I was under the impression that Johnson was a backup last year, and saw time mostly during passing downs.

As far as the comparison goes, I still don't see how these two players compare to each other. I don't think Johnson will be drafted to play 3-4 DE like Campbell was, so they're not similar DE's. They're not even in the same situations, as Campbell was a starter since a sophomore and Johnson isn't. Campbell is an every-down DE, and Johnson is a pass-rushing DE. Tyson Jackson seems to be a better comparison to Campbell than Johnson is.

He was. Oliver and Robertson were the starters.

BamaFalcon59
05-11-2008, 09:07 AM
His stock was dropping beforehand due to the weak junior year. He went from a potential top ten pick, to a borderline first rounder, once he ran at the combine, he slipped into the second round. Johnson has a very real chance to do likewise if he stays around 250 when combined with his marginal production. Unless he puts up a DeMarcus Ware type workout, which I wouldn't put past him, but unless he seriously ups his production this season, he'll be most comperable to Quentin Groves.

Quentin Groves produced, Johnson has not.

TitanHope
05-11-2008, 06:19 PM
According to GTech's roster, MJ is 6'7, 247. For now, that's all we can go on. I don't think they're overstating his height. DeSean Jackson masquereded as 6'0 in order to just be average. It's hard to hide 6'7 height, so no doubt people will get a sense of his true stature as the season progresses.

He was. Oliver and Robertson were the starters.

That's what I originally thought. He was Darrell Robertson's backup.

His stock was dropping beforehand due to the weak junior year. He went from a potential top ten pick, to a borderline first rounder, once he ran at the combine, he slipped into the second round. Johnson has a very real chance to do likewise if he stays around 250 when combined with his marginal production. Unless he puts up a DeMarcus Ware type workout, which I wouldn't put past him, but unless he seriously ups his production this season, he'll be most comperable to Quentin Groves.

I think Jevon Kearse is a more accurate comparison.

While at Florida, Kearse was listed at 6'5, 250 and played SLB/DE. He tallied 16.5 sacks over his entire career - probably around 5 sacks per year if averaged. In his workouts, he posted a 4.43 40, 40-inch vertical, and 86-inch wingspan which vaulted him to the 16th overall pick.

Like Johnson, Kearse was too light in college for a NFL DE and didn't have great production over his career. But, after putting on around 15 pounds and blowing it up in workouts, he improved his stock and became a steal in the middle of the 1st RD. If Johnson can put on 15 lbs. and blow up the combine, he'll probably go earlier than 16th overall due to Kearse's early success and the demand of pass-rushing defensive ends.

LonghornsLegend
05-14-2008, 12:57 AM
Didn't see this Michael Johnson interview posted so figured I'd share, has some good informtion I didn't know...His dad is a Marine, as small as that may sound its only natual to believe a guy who has a Marine for a father has some discipline and good character instilled in him.

Question: I'd heard from one recruiter that a lot of people didn't know much about you because you played at a very small school. How do you think that affected your recruitment?



Johnson: Not at all. My mom always told me, "If you can play, they will find you." So, we didn't worry about it. I committed [to Georgia Tech] before my senior year and at the time, only Southern Miss and Clemson had offered. But later, Alabama, Georgia, a lot of schools offered.



Q: What was the school like?



A: I graduated with 98 people. If you showed me a photo of my graduating class, I could probably give you their first and last name. It was the only high school in the area where black and whites attended together. In fact, that is one of the main reasons my mom wanted me to go there.



Q: You were never offered by the big in-state schools in Alabama. How hard was that to take and would that have been hard to turn down?



A: I was offered in-state. Auburn offered me a scholarship to play basketball. Alabama offered me, but long after I committed to Tech. Everyone knew I was going to Tech.



Q: I understand you scored a 27 on the ACT and had a very high GPA. Besides Tech, what other strong academic schools reached out to you?



A: Vanderbilt, Purdue, Dartmouth.



Q: Your dad, Samuel, served in the Marines in Vietnam and earned the Purple Heart. How has his military background influenced you?



A: I don't take anything for granted. He always talked about how hard Marines worked and encouraged me to work hard. I am very proud my dad is a Marine. That is way more important than this football stuff will ever be.



Q: How have you developed since arriving at Tech?



A: Well, I have gained about 50 pounds, but more important than that, I have gotten stronger physically, mentally, socially and spiritually. Working with our team chaplain, Derek Moore, has been a blessing. He was a factor in me coming to Tech. Also, it has allowed me to be more comfortable around different types of people. Tech has students from all over the world, so you meet a lot of people from different backgrounds and origins.



Q: What do you plan to do after football?



A: Go back to Selma and do something working with kids. Maybe teaching. I'd like to have enough money to buy a training facility for the kids.



Q: Were most schools recruiting you as a tight end?



A: The only team that outright wanted me as a DE were Clemson, Vanderbilt, and I think that's what Alabama was going to do.

Q: Knowing you'd only started one game last year, what was your reaction when you found out ESPN had your name up there as the second overall pick in the 2009 NFL mock draft?



A: Well, I appreciate the thought. I appreciate Todd McShay thinking that highly of me, but there is so much work to do between now and the draft. It's up to me to go out and work and show who Michael Johnson is. If you get complacent, you get beat.



Q: How did you find out that people were talking about you already?



A: Friends, family calling asking, "Have you heard?" I try not to read all that stuff. I just smile and I'm thankful some people recognize me.



http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3391862&name=feldman_bruce


Link has the full article, sounds like a real good guy that is still out to prove alot, hard to not like that about a guy.

sodar21
05-14-2008, 01:15 AM
Nice article. Sounds like a smart guy.

And on an unrelated note. Its alway weird for me to read or hear something like this: "It was the only high school in the area where black and whites attended together."

DragonFireKai
05-14-2008, 02:18 AM
I think Jevon Kearse is a more accurate comparison.

While at Florida, Kearse was listed at 6'5, 250 and played SLB/DE. He tallied 16.5 sacks over his entire career - probably around 5 sacks per year if averaged. In his workouts, he posted a 4.43 40, 40-inch vertical, and 86-inch wingspan which vaulted him to the 16th overall pick.

Like Johnson, Kearse was too light in college for a NFL DE and didn't have great production over his career. But, after putting on around 15 pounds and blowing it up in workouts, he improved his stock and became a steal in the middle of the 1st RD. If Johnson can put on 15 lbs. and blow up the combine, he'll probably go earlier than 16th overall due to Kearse's early success and the demand of pass-rushing defensive ends.

Kearse produced in college though. He played mostly linebacker, and made two All SEC teams. Johnson's been primarily a defensive end, and hasn't produced greatly. And Kearse's physical abilities were unmatched by anyone we've ever seen at that size. He still holds the Combine record for fastest 10 yard split for all players, which is more important for DL than the actuall 40 time. And, he was 6'5", not 6'7". To reach a similar level of bulk, Johnson's gonna have to get over 270. So we're talking about a 20 lb weight gain, and he still has to be more athletic than anyone thought.

TitanHope
05-15-2008, 02:06 AM
Kearse produced in college though. He played mostly linebacker, and made two All SEC teams. Johnson's been primarily a defensive end, and hasn't produced greatly. And Kearse's physical abilities were unmatched by anyone we've ever seen at that size. He still holds the Combine record for fastest 10 yard split for all players, which is more important for DL than the actuall 40 time. And, he was 6'5", not 6'7". To reach a similar level of bulk, Johnson's gonna have to get over 270. So we're talking about a 20 lb weight gain, and he still has to be more athletic than anyone thought.

You speak as if 20 lbs. is hard to put on in a year's time. We don't know his true weight. He could be 240, 250, or even 260. But the bottomline is that he'll likely be 260+ by the time the draft comes around. Kearse was around 265 in his first year with the Titans, if memory serves me, but the guy was named "Freak" for a reason, so he's the exception. My comparison is that Kearse didn't have ideal NFL DE bulk during his junior year, lacked elite production, is a natural pass-rusher, and was crazy athletic, and Johnson doesn't have ideal NFL DE bulk, lacks elite production, is a natural pass-rusher, and is a great athlete. But, a lot can happen from now until the combine, so we're just arguing possibility and opinion I guess.

What I do know is that if MJ has a 12+ sack season, which is greatly possible, and combines it with a great workout, he'll make the top half of the Draft. Look at Jammal Anderson. In his sophomore season, he had 4 sacks. His junior season, he had 13.5 sacks. He eventually was taken in the Top 10 picks in a DE class that had 5 selected in the 1st RD, and I think 13+ total in the first 3 RD's. Right now, Johnson looks to be the best pure 4-3 senior pass-rusher in next year's draft class, or at least places himself among that tier. History suggests that Johnson has a great chance at securing a high pick next year.

Woody56
05-15-2008, 02:47 AM
The best player on GT's line is Vance Walker.

LonghornsLegend
05-15-2008, 08:41 PM
Is he going to end up a workout warrior in the sense of Peppers/Willams or will he be a tier below those guys, in terms of prospect status? It's hard to tell now being so early, but he at least look the part I just have no clue about his timed speed.

DragonFireKai
05-16-2008, 04:45 AM
You speak as if 20 lbs. is hard to put on in a year's time. We don't know his true weight. He could be 240, 250, or even 260. But the bottomline is that he'll likely be 260+ by the time the draft comes around. Kearse was around 265 in his first year with the Titans, if memory serves me, but the guy was named "Freak" for a reason, so he's the exception. My comparison is that Kearse didn't have ideal NFL DE bulk during his junior year, lacked elite production, is a natural pass-rusher, and was crazy athletic, and Johnson doesn't have ideal NFL DE bulk, lacks elite production, is a natural pass-rusher, and is a great athlete. But, a lot can happen from now until the combine, so we're just arguing possibility and opinion I guess.

It's not a matter of gaining 20 lbs in a year. It's gaining that weight without losing athleticism. If putting on that 20 lbs really cuts down on his athleticism, then he'll go from useful only in situational downs, to completely useless.

As you said, Kearse is the exception. If you find yourself looking at a player, and the first person that comes to your mind is a player that you immediately think of as "the Exception", that's not a good thing, becuase that really means he reminds you of "The Rule", all those players The overwhelming amount of which fit the mold of the Exception, but weren't the exception.

The other thing I take exception to is the insinuation that Kearse did not produce his Junior year. Kearse was used in a manner similar to Brian Urlacher at NMSU. He wasn't utilized as a LB/DE Hybrid, he was more often used as a LB/S Hybrid. He was actually recruited as a Safety. He was a first team All-SEC LB his junior year. That's elite production.

What I do know is that if MJ has a 12+ sack season, which is greatly possible, and combines it with a great workout, he'll make the top half of the Draft. Look at Jammal Anderson. In his sophomore season, he had 4 sacks. His junior season, he had 13.5 sacks. He eventually was taken in the Top 10 picks in a DE class that had 5 selected in the 1st RD, and I think 13+ total in the first 3 RD's. Right now, Johnson looks to be the best pure 4-3 senior pass-rusher in next year's draft class, or at least places himself among that tier. History suggests that Johnson has a great chance at securing a high pick next year.

I agree. I haven't seen him play this season, so I don't know if he's developed more discipline as a pass rusher. If he has, then the production issues are lessened, he'll still need to put up a great workout though. But if he fails to produce, He'll need to put up a great workout just to be drafted in the first 3 rounds. I point back to Quentin Groves, a similar talent, who only produced three sacks in his final season, and never had double digit sacks in a single season. Despite a great workout, he slipped to the second half of the 2nd round.

BTW, the 07 draft had 3 DEs in the first. Carriker was drafted to play tackle, and Spencer was drafted to play OLB.

BlindSite
05-16-2008, 07:47 AM
20 pounds heavier with a major overhaul on his arm techniques and he'll be a first rounder. Right now he'll probably show up to the combine at 260-270 pounds and blow everyone away with measurables but won't do position drills and he'll slink into the first round unjustly.

LonghornsLegend
05-16-2008, 12:16 PM
If he doesn't gain 20 lbs he would still be a helluva prospect as a 3-4 OLB, I don't think his 1st rd status is going to hinge on his weight so much.

Paranoidmoonduck
05-16-2008, 01:12 PM
Is he going to end up a workout warrior in the sense of Peppers/Willams or will he be a tier below those guys, in terms of prospect status? It's hard to tell now being so early, but he at least look the part I just have no clue about his timed speed.

From what I've seen, I think he's definitely capable of a low 4.7 or high 4.6 40 time and some good agility numbers, but he definitely won't be showing up the combine weighing 290+ lbs and I doubt he can put up those kind of strength numbers. I would say he's probably capable of replicating the sort of combine Gaines Adams had, which should suit him fine.

TitanHope
05-18-2008, 10:33 PM
It's not a matter of gaining 20 lbs in a year. It's gaining that weight without losing athleticism. If putting on that 20 lbs really cuts down on his athleticism, then he'll go from useful only in situational downs, to completely useless.

As you said, Kearse is the exception. If you find yourself looking at a player, and the first person that comes to your mind is a player that you immediately think of as "the Exception", that's not a good thing, becuase that really means he reminds you of "The Rule", all those players The overwhelming amount of which fit the mold of the Exception, but weren't the exception.

The other thing I take exception to is the insinuation that Kearse did not produce his Junior year. Kearse was used in a manner similar to Brian Urlacher at NMSU. He wasn't utilized as a LB/DE Hybrid, he was more often used as a LB/S Hybrid. He was actually recruited as a Safety. He was a first team All-SEC LB his junior year. That's elite production.

He's 6'7, so I'm sure he can gain 20 lbs. and still maintain his athleticism. Then again, if it does hinder him, then he should stay around 250-260. If it doesn't hinder him, and he can get up to 270 or so, then he'll be a major commodity.

I was insinuating that Kearse didn't have elite production as a DE. Kearse was drafted to play DE, and not LB or S. So while the impressiveness of his ability to play LB and S should not just be discarded, it shouldn't provide anything to say that he would be a great DE in the NFL.

I agree. I haven't seen him play this season, so I don't know if he's developed more discipline as a pass rusher. If he has, then the production issues are lessened, he'll still need to put up a great workout though. But if he fails to produce, He'll need to put up a great workout just to be drafted in the first 3 rounds. I point back to Quentin Groves, a similar talent, who only produced three sacks in his final season, and never had double digit sacks in a single season. Despite a great workout, he slipped to the second half of the 2nd round.

BTW, the 07 draft had 3 DEs in the first. Carriker was drafted to play tackle, and Spencer was drafted to play OLB.

Yup, MJ will definitely have to workout well in order to be a high pick. We saw that with Calais Campbell. Campbell didn't produce and didn't workout well, and he was taken in the 2nd RD. Groves didn't produce, but worked out well, and he was taken in the 2nd RD too. Johnson doesn't have the past production of those two guys, so his draft status will depend on a good workout and good season. I'm of the opinion, though, that Johnson will have a great workout and will show enough flashes on the field to become a 1st RD pick.

And I know Carriker and Spencer were drafted to play DT and OLB respectively, but I still categorized them as DE's when they were drafted. Kinda like when a DT is drafted to play 3-4 DE, I don't categorize that DT as a DE. Either way, I hope you get my point.

DragonFireKai
05-19-2008, 03:51 PM
He's 6'7, so I'm sure he can gain 20 lbs. and still maintain his athleticism. Then again, if it does hinder him, then he should stay around 250-260. If it doesn't hinder him, and he can get up to 270 or so, then he'll be a major commodity.

Putting on 20 lbs is a major issue. I had issues with edge speed when I put on weight, even as little as going from 255 to 265, and I'm even taller than he is. And I had a higher body fat percentage than he did, so I could put on more weight healthily than Johnson can.


Yup, MJ will definitely have to workout well in order to be a high pick. We saw that with Calais Campbell. Campbell didn't produce and didn't workout well, and he was taken in the 2nd RD. Groves didn't produce, but worked out well, and he was taken in the 2nd RD too. Johnson doesn't have the past production of those two guys, so his draft status will depend on a good workout and good season. I'm of the opinion, though, that Johnson will have a great workout and will show enough flashes on the field to become a 1st RD pick.

Campbell did produce. He had double digit sacks as a sophmore.

I was insinuating that Kearse didn't have elite production as a DE. Kearse was drafted to play DE, and not LB or S. So while the impressiveness of his ability to play LB and S should not just be discarded, it shouldn't provide anything to say that he would be a great DE in the NFL.

And I know Carriker and Spencer were drafted to play DT and OLB respectively, but I still categorized them as DE's when they were drafted. Kinda like when a DT is drafted to play 3-4 DE, I don't categorize that DT as a DE. Either way, I hope you get my point.

Consistency?

TitanHope
05-19-2008, 10:11 PM
Putting on 20 lbs is a major issue. I had issues with edge speed when I put on weight, even as little as going from 255 to 265, and I'm even taller than he is. And I had a higher body fat percentage than he did, so I could put on more weight healthily than Johnson can.

I have no clue on your athleticism, but for arguments sake, lets not compare the two of you.

Either way, it's better for his career for him to lose a little explosion in exchange for bulk and strength, wouldn't you say? I mean, he could be a Jason Taylor-type and be a OLB in the 3-4 and lighter, pass-rusher in the 4-3 if he stays around his current weight. I think it's better for him to become a better all-around DE and be able to play on every-down rather than becoming an elite pass-rusher. But if he can be bigger and more explosive, that's obviously the best option.

Campbell did produce. He had double digit sacks as a sophmore.

I meant in his final season, my bad.


I was insinuating that Kearse didn't have elite production as a DE. Kearse was drafted to play DE, and not LB or S. So while the impressiveness of his ability to play LB and S should not just be discarded, it shouldn't provide anything to say that he would be a great DE in the NFL.

And I know Carriker and Spencer were drafted to play DT and OLB respectively, but I still categorized them as DE's when they were drafted. Kinda like when a DT is drafted to play 3-4 DE, I don't categorize that DT as a DE. Either way, I hope you get my point.


Consistency?

They're two opposite arguments.

You said that Kearse was mostly a LB/S in college, and he was drafted to play DE. Carriker and Spencer were DE's in college, but were not drafted to play those positions.

Besides, the same is true for Carriker and Spencer as it was for Kearse. When they were drafted, there was no certainty that two players who were DE's in college were going to excel at different positions in the NFL.

BamaFalcon59
05-19-2008, 10:39 PM
Either way, it's better for his career for him to lose a little explosion in exchange for bulk and strength, wouldn't you say? I mean, he could be a Jason Taylor-type and be a OLB in the 3-4 and lighter, pass-rusher in the 4-3 if he stays around his current weight. I think it's better for him to become a better all-around DE and be able to play on every-down rather than becoming an elite pass-rusher. But if he can be bigger and more explosive, that's obviously the best option.


No. There is a point when explosion is lost and the player loses ability. See Jamaal Anderson, Reggie Bush, Calais Campbell; all had the same result after bulking up.

TitanHope
05-19-2008, 11:01 PM
No. There is a point when explosion is lost and the player loses ability. See Jamaal Anderson, Reggie Bush, Calais Campbell; all had the same result after bulking up.

I think Anderson and Bush's lack of production is based on more than weight gain, and Campbell hasn't played in the NFL yet.

I'm not talking about bulking up from 250-280. I'm saying going from 250-265 in an entire year's time. Surely if he lost explosion, it would be miniscule, especially considering his athleticism.

DragonFireKai
05-19-2008, 11:13 PM
I have no clue on your athleticism, but for arguments sake, lets not compare the two of you.

Try it yourself. Most players in college are already maxing out their frame at there current body fat%, any major natural gains later on are going to be at least 50% fat. Ten pounds of muscle can move about 15 pounds at the optimal rate. 10 pounds of musce and 5 pounds of fat, the remaining 5 pounds of fat is just dead weight. Try running a 20 yard sprint, time yourself. Strap a 5 pound weight to yourself, and run the same sprint. See how much time you loose.

Either way, it's better for his career for him to lose a little explosion in exchange for bulk and strength, wouldn't you say? I mean, he could be a Jason Taylor-type and be a OLB in the 3-4 and lighter, pass-rusher in the 4-3 if he stays around his current weight. I think it's better for him to become a better all-around DE and be able to play on every-down rather than becoming an elite pass-rusher. But if he can be bigger and more explosive, that's obviously the best option.

His only value is as a pass rusher. Even if he adds more weight, he'll never be even an average DE against the run. As it stands, he's atrocious. Without adding weight, he's essentially Mark Anderson. If he becomes medocre against the run, and mediocre as a pass rusher, he essentially becomes Phillip Daniels. Would you spend a first round pick on either of them? No. He needs to bulk up and retain his athleticism, which isn't easily done.

They're two opposite arguments.

You said that Kearse was mostly a LB/S in college, and he was drafted to play DE. Carriker and Spencer were DE's in college, but were not drafted to play those positions.

Besides, the same is true for Carriker and Spencer as it was for Kearse. When they were drafted, there was no certainty that two players who were DE's in college were going to excel at different positions in the NFL.

So you counted Kearse as a LB when he was drafted?

BamaFalcon59
05-19-2008, 11:16 PM
I think Anderson and Bush's lack of production is based on more than weight gain, and Campbell hasn't played in the NFL yet.

I'm not talking about bulking up from 250-280. I'm saying going from 250-265 in an entire year's time. Surely if he lost explosion, it would be miniscule, especially considering his athleticism.

Campbell went from 265 and double digit sacks to 290 and low production as a senior. Anderson had a ton of burst before bulking up. Same with Bush. All three bulked up in an effort to become more durable and round their game.

Flyboy
05-20-2008, 12:30 AM
No. There is a point when explosion is lost and the player loses ability. See Jamaal Anderson, Reggie Bush, Calais Campbell; all had the same result after bulking up.

Erm... Bush hasn't really gained much weight since entering the league so...

TitanHope
05-21-2008, 04:58 AM
Try it yourself. Most players in college are already maxing out their frame at there current body fat%, any major natural gains later on are going to be at least 50% fat. Ten pounds of muscle can move about 15 pounds at the optimal rate. 10 pounds of musce and 5 pounds of fat, the remaining 5 pounds of fat is just dead weight. Try running a 20 yard sprint, time yourself. Strap a 5 pound weight to yourself, and run the same sprint. See how much time you loose.

I'm talking about a prolonged program for him to bulk up over the course of ten months. Obviously, if I go out right now and time myself at my normal weight, and then time myself with additional weight, my times will be different. But, I am unable to run period, so I'm a bit of a poor example. Nevertheless, if a potential professional athlete was given multiple months to train in order to diminish the difference in times, I think it's possible. That type of training would not only increase muscle mass, but also increase bone density - muscle and bone would become stronger simultaneously and become heavier in the process. If he is able to increase muscle mass, bone strength, and maintain the quick-twitch reflexes in his legs all through slow, progressive conditioning, then that is the healthiest way for him to do so. We must also remember that this guy is a defensive end, so dropping his 40-time by 0.10 in exchange for bulk and strength will not affect him like it does a smaller player who relies on speed - just don't become like Campbell.

But again, this is all subjective to his body type and personal discipline. Hopefully, he'll be able to handicap parts of his ability by improving other areas such as his technique. I don't think MJ has maxed out his 6'6+ frame at 245-250 lbs, but in retrospect, he probably looks similar to LeBron James in normal clothing which ain't half bad.

His only value is as a pass rusher. Even if he adds more weight, he'll never be even an average DE against the run. As it stands, he's atrocious. Without adding weight, he's essentially Mark Anderson. If he becomes medocre against the run, and mediocre as a pass rusher, he essentially becomes Phillip Daniels. Would you spend a first round pick on either of them? No. He needs to bulk up and retain his athleticism, which isn't easily done.

I agree, but I think it's too soon to say he can't become better against the run - it's his first year starting. Pass-rushing ends have a relatively high value, and teams will use 1st RD picks on great pass-rushers.

So you counted Kearse as a LB when he was drafted?

I wasn't as into football then as I am now, so to say I had an evaluation on him would be a lie. But looking back, I'd say that he could have been a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB. He had the athletic ability to play OLB in the 4-3, but there would have been no reason for him to add weight after college.