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View Full Version : Dolphins are on the clock..Who do they take?


bruschis4all
12-02-2007, 09:10 PM
I guess it's possible they don't pick 1st overall. But, that looks very unlikely. They have 0 wins. Next lowest has 3. 4 games left. Plus, Miami is at New England. Seemed like Glenn Dorsey would fit them. Not sure if they feel the same way about him since he hurt his knee. Ronnie Brown was looking good until he hurt his knee. D.McFadden?? I'm sure they'd love to trade the pick. But, what do you think? I'll say Dorsey.

urinemonkey
12-02-2007, 09:17 PM
Chris Long

toonsterwu
12-02-2007, 09:21 PM
I'm leaning McFadden or Chris Long these days. Chris Long's weigh in may be one of the most intriguing moments of the draft season. Anywhere in the high 270's and up, and I think enough teams can buy him as a 3-4 end. Anywhere in the mid-270's and lower, and it becomes quite iffy.

I think they'd love a trade, but I still don't see one.

BaLLiN
12-02-2007, 09:21 PM
McFadden, and trade Ronnie Brown

jballa838
12-02-2007, 09:42 PM
Personally, i don't think they'll take McFadden, just because they have Brown and "Ricky". If Ricky doesnt recover well, they have a dilemma, but they are going DL. Its a safe pick and no QB is worth a #1 in this draft, mostly because they have the comparison to the other 2 always looming, so 66% chance they are wrong.
Now which DL they pick, is all up to the combine/ Pro days/ Senior Bowls

NYGibril28
12-02-2007, 09:58 PM
I think McFadden is an option, just based on them not letting the Jets or Patriots get them. Having both DMac and Brown is not a problem at all, and in a draft where talent at the top is thin, it's not that bad of a pick.

PACKmanN
12-02-2007, 09:59 PM
they need more then one player, they will be rebuilding for some time, why not trade down and get some team's 1st round picks for the next 2-3 years....

Smokey Joe
12-02-2007, 10:04 PM
I like bf_51's idea of DeAngelo Hall, and both Falcons second rounder for the no. 1 pick. Works for both teams, IMO.

Then the Falcons would select McFadden. And if that deal doesn't entice the Dolphins, I could see it enticing the Pats.

Bobo
12-02-2007, 10:05 PM
Are the Dolphins running a 3-4? I thought they were running some kinda 3-4, 4-3 hybrid.

Chucky
12-02-2007, 10:08 PM
I think the smartest thing they can do is pick Dorsey and move back to the 4-3 full time.

619
12-02-2007, 10:09 PM
darren mcfadden, if AD and Chester Taylor can split carries and possibly lead the team to a playoff berth without a QB i dont see why they wouldnt draft him especially if there isnt a consensus #1 player. any other player then mcfadden would be overdrafted and paid a hefty salary he doesnt deserve. trading down and getting some much needed extra picks would be the ideal first option though.

brat316
12-02-2007, 10:13 PM
Its going to be McFadden, they will try and shop him around right after that pick, because that is a lot of cash in the back field for brown and Mcfad. but if nothing happens they keep him.

Ricky well... he out,

Chris Long could be picked here, take the form of Taylor. But if Cameron wants to get the O going he picks DMC

PACKmanN
12-02-2007, 10:14 PM
darren mcfadden, if AD and Chester Taylor can split carries and possibly lead the team to a playoff berth without a QB i dont see why they wouldnt draft him especially if there isnt a consensus #1 player. any other player then mcfadden would be overdrafted and paid a hefty salary he doesnt deserve. trading down and getting some much needed extra picks would be the ideal first option though.

well Minnesota's defense can keep their team in a game, unlike Miami....which gives Minnesota the chance to do what there best at.

Geo
12-02-2007, 10:24 PM
Chris Long. They need a new franchise pass rusher to build around, Jason Taylor will be 34 before the start of next season.

B-Dawk
12-02-2007, 10:40 PM
Miami is just lucky they dont have to try and justify one of these qbs as 1st overall ala San Fran a couple of years ago

Travis 24
12-03-2007, 05:52 AM
Trade down and get as many picks as possible..

Paranoidmoonduck
12-03-2007, 06:02 AM
Logic says Chris Long, since the motivation of going #1 would be more than enough for him to gain the weight necessary to convince people he's a real 3-4 defensive end, but my gut says Jake Long.

It really depends on what kind of offseason he has, but if he can convince the Dolphins he's a real left tackle and puts up the kind of strength numbers he's capable of, I don't think he'd be any sort of a stretch at #1.

A lot hinges on how Ronnie Brown progresses, but until things look more desperate there, I can't see McFadden.

neko4
12-03-2007, 06:56 AM
I honestly believe that Glenn Dorsey, despite his size can play in the 3-4. I really believe he's that good. Fans may not like though, because he wont rack up the big time stats

NIN1984
12-03-2007, 08:14 AM
IMO they should look into trading the pick maybe they can work something out with the Falcons for Hall. If not they should take Chris Long.

Brent
12-03-2007, 09:59 AM
They should try to trade down.

ammandss
12-03-2007, 10:45 AM
Obviously trade down if they can. Otherwise I'd go with Dorsey.

Also, the difference between Minnesota and Miami is that Minnesota has a much, much better offensive line. Hutchinson is my new hero.

OhioState
12-03-2007, 10:51 AM
i could see them being able to get woodson or brohm in the second, so i would go with Long or Dorsey at no. 1

grushcow
12-03-2007, 02:37 PM
take it from a fin fan they won't take a RB. miami is up in the top 10 in yards per carry and our about as deep as a team can get at running back. brown, williams, chatman, cobbs and booker (who looked impressive in his first game on sunday)(6 catches 63 yards). they'll take dorsey or shop the pick. there are quality 2nd round prospects for 3-4 outside linebacker/end
not to mention there is no hope they take a QB. abosolutely none, they are high on john beck and would definately not quit on him after just one season

KCJ58
12-03-2007, 02:40 PM
trade down with so they can get more picks

Geo
12-03-2007, 02:42 PM
Easier said than done.

toonsterwu
12-03-2007, 02:45 PM
take it from a fin fan they won't take a RB. miami is up in the top 10 in yards per carry and our about as deep as a team can get at running back. brown, williams, chatman, cobbs and booker (who looked impressive in his first game on sunday)(6 catches 63 yards). they'll take dorsey or shop the pick. there are quality 2nd round prospects for 3-4 outside linebacker/end
not to mention there is no hope they take a QB. abosolutely none, they are high on john beck and would definately not quit on him after just one season

Unless I'm mistaken, Chatman is a FA. And I think if the Dolphins get anything of value, even a late day 2 pick, I think they deal Ricky.

Young Legend
12-03-2007, 02:54 PM
trading down is always easier said then done..besides the Vick and Eli trade how many trades have we seen that have a team traded a top 3 pick..it dosent happen much so trading out of it is not even a option.

C.Long

23_phins_84
12-03-2007, 03:03 PM
Dont know the truth behind this, but Ive heard rumors of Miami trading their #1 pick to Dallas for Dallas's 2 1st rounders and possibly the 1st round next year.

Apparantly, the Cowboys are high on McFadden considering Jones is a free Agent after this year and they want to stick with the 2 back system.

toonsterwu
12-03-2007, 03:09 PM
Dont know the truth behind this, but Ive heard rumors of Miami trading their #1 pick to Dallas for Dallas's 2 1st rounders and possibly the 1st round next year.

Apparantly, the Cowboys are high on McFadden considering Jones is a free Agent after this year and they want to stick with the 2 back system.

Yeah, that's been floated around quite a bit, and while draft value charts are only a guide and each team values picks and players differently, that's selling far below value. Now, if they included a player or more picks, that'd be a different story.

Scotty D
12-03-2007, 03:22 PM
Carpenter could probably be thrown in. I don't know how he would fit in at Miami.

derza222
12-03-2007, 03:30 PM
I think if they're stuck there it comes between McFadden and Chris Long, but I'd lean towards Long.

I've heard talk of Jake Long and Dorsey, but I think they're in good enough shape on the offensive line and I'm not sure Jake is worth #1 anyways, and Dorsey has some question marks after being injured and just doesn't look as dominant as he used to. Plus playing on such a stacked defense makes it tough for him because you wonder if he's helping the other players or they're helping him sometimes, and most likely it's a little of both.

Chris Long makes more sense than Dorsey if they go DL, because he's a good fit for the 4-3 if they do decide to switch and has the ability to play in the 3-4 depending on how he weighs in. He's got production, less injury issues, and doesn't have the same supporting cast question marks Dorsey does.

McFadden could be the pick if they don't like anyone else, want to go BPA, or Cameron falls in love with him like he did Ginn last year. He's probably the best player in this draft, which along with concerns about how Brown comes back (though he was very good this year) are the only reasons I see them even considering him. I think it's almost even as to whether they'd take him or Long, but they already have Ronnie Brown and that's a lot of money to sink into a position where very good players can be found day 2 and they're very strongly affected by their lines.

As far as dealing down, I think it's going to be tough unless somebody absolutely falls in love with DMC. You have to give up a lot to get to the #1 spot which is why top 5 trades rarely happen. I liked BF51's idea with DeAngelo Hall, and that's probably the most likely idea for a trade down. The Cowboys are a potential team to deal with, but their two first rounders fall FAR short of the value of the #1 pick and I think unless Jerry Jones decides that he absolutely needs to have McFadden they see if he slips and if so pounce on him.

Crickett
12-03-2007, 03:45 PM
take it from a fin fan they won't take a RB. miami is up in the top 10 in yards per carry and our about as deep as a team can get at running back. brown, williams, chatman, cobbs and booker (who looked impressive in his first game on sunday)(6 catches 63 yards).

Enjoy having everyone think your team will take a running back when it makes absolutely no sense. :D


darren mcfadden, if AD and Chester Taylor can split carries and possibly lead the team to a playoff berth without a QB i dont see why they wouldnt draft him especially if there isnt a consensus #1 player. any other player then mcfadden would be overdrafted and paid a hefty salary he doesnt deserve. trading down and getting some much needed extra picks would be the ideal first option though.

Minnesota's OL is probably one of the best run blocking group's in the NFL. And Chester Taylor doesn't have a 50+ million dollar contract like Ronnie Brown does. I'd love to see the Dolphins have 110 million invested at RB, but that's because I'm a Jets fan.

Geo
12-03-2007, 03:50 PM
Dont know the truth behind this, but Ive heard rumors of Miami trading their #1 pick to Dallas for Dallas's 2 1st rounders and possibly the 1st round next year.

Apparantly, the Cowboys are high on McFadden considering Jones is a free Agent after this year and they want to stick with the 2 back system.
I can't imagine Jerruh giving up that much for the right to pay a runningback more than $30M guaranteed. Even he's not that stupid.

But if I (from the Dolphins' perspective) could get Bobby Carpenter and both the Cowboys' 1st round picks this year for the first overall pick, I'd strongly consider that.

no love
12-03-2007, 03:57 PM
If I were Jerry Jones I would NOT trade up for DMC. With their two firsts and the depth at corner they can pick up a good player for their secondary at either corner back or safety, they are pretty thin (Hamlin is a FA after this season).

Or they can also focus some attention toward replacing some of their older players (TO or Flozell Adams).

Besides, they have a great back in MB3 and can easily pickup someone to back him up in FA Michael Turner, Justin Fargas (unless he gets resigned then you can get Lamont Jordan who will probably be cut) or Chris Brown.

draftguru151
12-03-2007, 04:07 PM
Minnesota's OL is probably one of the best run blocking group's in the NFL. And Chester Taylor doesn't have a 50+ million dollar contract like Ronnie Brown does. I'd love to see the Dolphins have 110 million invested at RB, but that's because I'm a Jets fan.

Brown's deal was less than 35 million and has two years left on it.

The Legend
12-03-2007, 04:13 PM
i think they need more draft pick so i would trade there pick

maybe getting DeSean & Vernon

DeSean & Ted would be hard to stop with there speed

also trading Jason Taylor for maybe another 1st round pick they have to start rebuilding for the future

also bears have 4 1st day picks so they need to give them up for matt ryan

falcons have 2 2nd rounders and a high 1st rounder

SeanTaylorRIP
12-03-2007, 04:36 PM
i think they need more draft pick so i would trade there pick

maybe getting DeSean & Vernon

DeSean & Ted would be hard to stop with there speed

also trading Jason Taylor for maybe another 1st round pick they have to start rebuilding for the future

also bears have 4 1st day picks so they need to give them up for matt ryan

falcons have 2 2nd rounders and a high 1st rounder

To be honest I don't think you can get a first rounder for Jason Taylor.

big daddy russ
12-03-2007, 05:00 PM
I love the Dolphins, love Jason Taylor, and love Zach Thomas, but each of them needs a change. The Fins need to do a fire sale, unload the bulk of their veterans and try to acquire young players and/or draft picks, whether those picks come this year or next.

I hope they trade their defensive studs while they still have some value and build the talent base. I honestly don't even care about the draft value chart. Trade that first pick, slip down somewhere in the top ten and pick up a few picks along the way. Heck, even make it easier on the other team by spreading it out over a few years (if possible).

On a side note, I never see NFL teams trading for future picks (two-plus years down the road) like NBA teams do. Is there a rule against it? NFL CBA provision? Anyone know?

Either way, get as many draft picks as possible. Trade Thomas and Taylor, maybe even Vonnie Holliday and a few others if possible and get a couple of picks (what do you think we could we get, a fourth and a seventh next year for Thomas and Taylor?), maybe a young player who needs some time to develop.

Right now, I wish more than anything that Isaiah Thomas was the general manager in the NFL.

big daddy russ
12-03-2007, 05:02 PM
To be honest I don't think you can get a first rounder for Jason Taylor.

Realistically, I'm thinking a third- or fourth-rounder and a seventh for both Taylor and Zach Thomas, but I don't honestly know what they're worth. I know they're not spring chickens, so they're not going to get high draft picks.

MidwayMonster31
12-03-2007, 05:08 PM
McFadden is clearly the best player on the board, in the Dolphins case, they can't have #2 and #1 money tied down to running backs and no one else is worth the #1 pick. They should trade down and hope either Long is there. I don't think Dorsey fits a 3-4, but if he can learn to play end and tackle in their hybrid, then they should pick Dorsey first.

keylime_5
12-11-2007, 05:02 PM
As long as the Dolphins keep a 3-4, they aren't gonna draft Glenn Dorsey. Dorsey has no business in a 3-4, and he does have scouts questioning his injury history a little bit. If Miami goes defense I think they'll pick Chris Long...his stock is going out of the roof and scouts love him. I think he might be higher than Dorsey on some teams' boards even by April. Long would be a perfect fit in a 3-4, plus Miami has been informed by Jason Taylor that he will retire in the next few years.

However, Cam Cameron's future in Miami looks shaky at best, and if he gets canned I wouldn't be surprised for the Dolphins to bring in Matt Ryan after they see their starting QB next year shouldn't be 27 year old 2nd year pro Chris Weink...er...John Beck. I say odds on favorites are Chris Long, then Ryan, then Dorsey, then Jake Long in that order.

McFadden is the best player in the draft, but Ronnie Brown was running better than anyone in the league prior to his injury, and with Miami having needs at every single position except RB, I seriously doubt they pick Darren.

HoopsDemon12
12-11-2007, 05:50 PM
Carpenter could probably be thrown in. I don't know how he would fit in at Miami.

Well i personally think he could fit in better than what he is now for the cowboys... he kind just warms the sidelines up right now.. thatsa not what first round picks usually do

DChess
12-11-2007, 07:55 PM
im not really buying into the whole our team didnt win a game so make our team happy we're goign to take DT. they currently have nonbody they can market. this team needs a spark of some sort, a playmaker, and i know dorsey is all those and more, i just dont think its going to cut it with the everyday fans. although its a sin, i think the idea of taking a RB with the#1 pick has been a pushed forward with guys like adrian peterson, showing that its good to get a RB while they are still young. you cant count on ronnie brown and even if he is healthy that would be a unreal combo and it would take so much pressure off beck next year. This class is a little short on offensive playmakers, a lot of top notch defenders and interior guys in this draft. thats why i think you can wait for a guy like dre moore or kentwan balmer, theres so much depth at the DT position. i think a combo of mcfadden/moore, is better than dorsey/other.

crazyisme
12-11-2007, 08:05 PM
someone please define "value" this years draft class is so think in talent at the top, if i were the Dolphins, id honestly take the best deal out there for the #1 overall pick. they will more than likely get some teams first and 2nd round picks this year an additional picks next year (at least a 2nd)

a first, and 2 seconds? I dont care what that stupid draft value chart things says is right value...imo there isn't any single player worthy of a #1 overall pick in this years draft, take the best deal, trade down and get several players....let some other team spend a ton of draft picks on getting a player that shouldnt be drafted #1 overall anyway....

JMO

KCJ58
12-11-2007, 08:05 PM
pull a Jerry Jones

Babylon
12-11-2007, 08:32 PM
someone please define "value" this years draft class is so think in talent at the top, if i were the Dolphins, id honestly take the best deal out there for the #1 overall pick. they will more than likely get some teams first and 2nd round picks this year an additional picks next year (at least a 2nd)

a first, and 2 seconds? I dont care what that stupid draft value chart things says is right value...imo there isn't any single player worthy of a #1 overall pick in this years draft, take the best deal, trade down and get several players....let some other team spend a ton of draft picks on getting a player that shouldnt be drafted #1 overall anyway....

JMO


Like someone pointed out if you could get Dallas's two firsts and a Bobby Carpenter then you pull the trigger, that's 3 players with a 1st round grade.If a team wanted to trade a 1st and a 2nd i would want it to be top 10 in both rounds. You arent forced to make a move so you could hold out for the best offer or do nothing.

marks01234
12-11-2007, 09:06 PM
Chris Long

Drafting a RB #1 overall is very risky and that is the last thing the phins need. They have enough skill position players - they need to upgrade both lines and add some youth to their LB.

I'd go DL in the first, then OL in the second and third.

Gatz
12-11-2007, 09:55 PM
Right now there is a sizeable value gap between McFadden and everyone else in my opinion. I doubt they can succeed in trading down from the #1 spot because that's always hard to do. I am not sure if Long (Chris) is a #1 guy and the only other guy who I can think of that has #1 value besides McFadden is Dorsey, considering he has a good combine because his play fell because of injury mid-season this year. But he doesn't fit the 3-4 and if they try him as end I am not sure that's worth a #1 pick either. Depends on how tihngs turn out, if Dorsey has an amazing combine I could see him being taken as a 3-4 DE. I think a lot of people forgot how dominant he was before the injury against Auburn.

LonghornsLegend
12-11-2007, 11:28 PM
Remember before last draft how everyone was hyping up all these draft trades that were going to happen on draft day, and the draft came and none of those trades happen...People always speculate about them but for the most part teams end up drafting where they are...we see subtle trades for mid rounders, but its not very often teams trade out of the top 5 and another team gives up multiple 1st rounders...

And id hate if dallas gave up all that for a rb when we already have a great one...id rather us do all of that for Chris Long before I would McFadden, trading the house for another rb would be pretty crazy...McFadden was only a shot when we thought we had a top 5 pick, once the Browns got good we had to let that go

Iamcanadian
12-12-2007, 08:09 AM
Miami is going to have a very hard decision to make. Is Beck the answer, how does Cameron view him as a potential answer at QB. Is Ryan a top 3 prospect and how much does Cameron like his potential.
Miami and Cameron must decide 1st about the QB position before they look at other options. If Cameron isn't convinced that Beck can develop and believes Ryan is a top 3 selection then I believe they go QB, but that is a lot of ifs.
Your looking at tying up around 60 million dollars in the #1 pick and that is a lot of money to pay anybody but a QB or a RB and that might just influence who they pick.
I don't believe it is possible to trade down unless another team with a top 5 pick exists. Not only are trade downs out of the #1 pick extremely difficult to pull off but the only ones recently have always involved another top 5 drafting team who desires to draft a QB. I serious doubt Miami is prepared to trade lower than the top 5, no other team has done it recently and I cannot see Miami attempting it. A trade down will only be possible if Miami is going to pass on Ryan and another team in the top 5 is desperate to get him. Weak teams only give up picks to secure a QB. No other position will likely entice any team to take on a 60 million dollar contract with the #1 pick.

DChess
12-12-2007, 08:25 AM
Miami is going to have a very hard decision to make. Is Beck the answer, how does Cameron view him as a potential answer at QB. Is Ryan a top 3 prospect and how much does Cameron like his potential.
Miami and Cameron must decide 1st about the QB position before they look at other options. If Cameron isn't convinced that Beck can develop and believes Ryan is a top 3 selection then I believe they go QB, but that is a lot of ifs.
Your looking at tying up around 60 million dollars in the #1 pick and that is a lot of money to pay anybody but a QB or a RB and that might just influence who they pick.
I don't believe it is possible to trade down unless another team with a top 5 pick exists. Not only are trade downs out of the #1 pick extremely difficult to pull off but the only ones recently have always involved another top 5 drafting team who desires to draft a QB. I serious doubt Miami is prepared to trade lower than the top 5, no other team has done it recently and I cannot see Miami attempting it. A trade down will only be possible if Miami is going to pass on Ryan and another team in the top 5 is desperate to get him. Weak teams only give up picks to secure a QB. No other position will likely entice any team to take on a 60 million dollar contract with the #1 pick.

i think that this year its going to be pretty hard to trade out of the number one spot. there isnt many tiers of talent in this draft. i see someone being picked number 2, having the same talent as someone who was picked 10. and with all the teams picking in the top ten (besides the pats) they all need multiple postions, so i dont see any reason to give up picks to move up in this draft. none of those QB's should be taken one, i wouldnt feel comfortable making that desicion. i think the only player that has the talent of being number one plays a position that is probably the least likely (outside of guard, center, and fullback) to be taken with the number 1. but as i said before, i think these backs who have impact rookie campaigns are having a big effect on whether or not a HB is taken one. if your in the whole and have a top 5 pick its most likely that your fans arent too happy. if you take someone who can step in right away, like mcfadden, and put up points, than you have a little more breathing room. i think if they take a guy who will go unoticed by the common fan like dorsey with the number 1, than its just going to look worse for him.

kind of reiterating some of my points in the last post. sry

NIN1984
12-12-2007, 10:03 AM
I'm starting to think Miami just takes McFadden so the Patriots don't. Think about it, if Miami passes on him McFadden he could end up with the Patriots or the Jets. Why would the Dolphins want that?

They could take McFadden and than trade him or keep him whatever they want, but I really believe he is gonna be the 1st overall pick.

thebow305
12-12-2007, 10:23 AM
darren mcfadden, if AD and Chester Taylor can split carries and possibly lead the team to a playoff berth without a QB i dont see why they wouldnt draft him especially if there isnt a consensus #1 player. any other player then mcfadden would be overdrafted and paid a hefty salary he doesnt deserve. trading down and getting some much needed extra picks would be the ideal first option though.

Yeah... but Chester Taylor is not Ronnie Brown. Ronnie Brown is an elite running back in this league when healthy. Chester is a very good complimentary, change of pace type of back. Yes he is a solid starter, but certainly not elite, that's why the Vikings picked Peterson, because they knew Chester was expendible if Peterson turned out to be the elite back they thought he was when they chose to take him at number 7 overall.

DChess
12-12-2007, 10:34 AM
Yeah... but Chester Taylor is not Ronnie Brown. Ronnie Brown is an elite running back in this league when healthy. Chester is a very good complimentary, change of pace type of back. Yes he is a solid starter, but certainly not elite, that's why the Vikings picked Peterson, because they knew Chester was expendible if Peterson turned out to be the elite back they thought he was when they chose to take him at number 7 overall.

elite? i think not, ronnie browns is a very good back, when healthy, key words there, when healthy. also i think chester taylors production isnt too far off from browns. brown barley has one on thousand yard season, and highest ypc is 4.5. chester taylor is putting togehter back to back years of at least a 4.0 ypc. and if you respond by saying ronnie brown was hurt, then ill just save you the time and tell you that, thats just more reason to take mcfadden.

thebow305
12-12-2007, 10:36 AM
I would love to just trade the pick for the best package available. If we cannot do that, I say we just draft McFadden and shop him around after we have him in our possession. We can tell teams we are going to take hi all we want, but unless we actually have him, will teams believe it. Then we can dictate what we want to get for him, if there is someone that wants him bad enough. And if there is nothing there, just keep him. I hate all the other players at the top of this draft. I just want Malcolm Jenkins, so if there is anyway we could trade down and stockpile picks then select him, I would be all for it!

DChess
12-12-2007, 10:40 AM
I would love to just trade the pick for the best package available. If we cannot do that, I say we just draft McFadden and shop him around after we have him in our possession. We can tell teams we are going to take hi all we want, but unless we actually have him, will teams believe it. Then we can dictate what we want to get for him, if there is someone that wants him bad enough. And if there is nothing there, just keep him. I hate all the other players at the top of this draft. I just want Malcolm Jenkins, so if there is anyway we could trade down and stockpile picks then select him, I would be all for it!

take him #1, nobody is going to be willing to trade down in this kind of draft, too much even talent in the top ten, and the 3 positions that are most important on the football field are a quarterback, a pass rushing end and a shut down corner. i would not be afraid to take jenkins 1, i was the biggest supporter last year before last years draft. he has great siaze and speed, and he hasnt even been thrown to this year

thebow305
12-12-2007, 10:41 AM
elite? i think not, ronnie browns is a very good back, when healthy, key words there, when healthy. also i think chester taylors production isnt too far off from browns. brown barley has one on thousand yard season, and highest ypc is 4.5. chester taylor is putting togehter back to back years of at least a 4.0 ypc. and if you respond by saying ronnie brown was hurt, then ill just save you the time and tell you that, thats just more reason to take mcfadden.

Maybe, but we did use a first day pick our 3rd rounder on Lorenzo Booker last year, who is a very flashy player and has a chance to be something special if we actually gave him some reps. And if we select McFadden, we would not only be giving up on Booker, but Brown as well. I just think RB is the least of our worries, there are so many other holes on our team.

thebow305
12-12-2007, 10:43 AM
take him #1, nobody is going to be willing to trade down in this kind of draft, too much even talent in the top ten, and the 3 positions that are most important on the football field are a quarterback, a pass rushing end and a shut down corner. i would not be afraid to take jenkins 1, i was the biggest supporter last year before last years draft. he has great siaze and speed, and he hasnt even been thrown to this year

I agree completely... I would not be all that upset if we took him number one overall.

The only thing is... then the Pats get McFadden and we are all ******!

DChess
12-12-2007, 10:43 AM
Maybe, but we did use a first day pick our 3rd rounder on Lorenzo Booker last year, who is a very flashy player and has a chance to be something special if we actually gave him some reps. And if we select McFadden, we would not only be giving up on Booker, but Brown as well. I just think RB is the least of our worries, there are so many other holes on our team.

i am a fan of booker though. but you also have to realize no matter who the head coach is, wheter it be cameron or a new one, they are going to have to impress and show some instant success, and someone like mcfadden can make the whole team look better.

DChess
12-12-2007, 10:44 AM
I agree completely... I would not be all that upset if we took him number one overall.

The only thing is... then the Pats get McFadden and we are all ******!

i really dont think the pats take mcfadden. they throw 90% of the game and they have the best offense. why change that up, and take a rb who will take 15 throws away from brady. they have a number one pick in maroney. i think im the only one who thinks they wont take him. i think they are going to end up with a buckeye or chris long

thebow305
12-12-2007, 10:52 AM
i really dont think the pats take mcfadden. they throw 90% of the game and they have the best offense. why change that up, and take a rb who will take 15 throws away from brady. they have a number one pick in maroney. i think im the only one who thinks they wont take him. i think they are going to end up with a buckeye or chris long

Why Chris Long though.... they have probably the best 3-4 DE Tandem in the league with Seymour and Ty Warren, then Jarvis Green is an excellent backup. Laurinaitis is not worth the second overall pick, and contrary to what you and I think, Jenkins probably isn't either. Maroney has struggled heavily this year, even with their passing attack being so successful and spreading defenses out so well. Also, Maroney can't seem to stay healthy. They can follow Minnesota and take McFadden to team with Maroney, because Maroney and Taylor are both great complimentary backs and neither will ever be elite IMO like McFadden. This is why i think they take him. Not to mention McFadden is probably the best pass-catching RB in this draft and fastest and will make NE's offensive absolutely unstoppable. Also, they always take the BPA, and that is exactly what McFadden will be.

Babylon
12-12-2007, 05:50 PM
Why Chris Long though.... they have probably the best 3-4 DE Tandem in the league with Seymour and Ty Warren, then Jarvis Green is an excellent backup. Laurinaitis is not worth the second overall pick, and contrary to what you and I think, Jenkins probably isn't either. Maroney has struggled heavily this year, even with their passing attack being so successful and spreading defenses out so well. Also, Maroney can't seem to stay healthy. They can follow Minnesota and take McFadden to team with Maroney, because Maroney and Taylor are both great complimentary backs and neither will ever be elite IMO like McFadden. This is why i think they take him. Not to mention McFadden is probably the best pass-catching RB in this draft and fastest and will make NE's offensive absolutely unstoppable. Also, they always take the BPA, and that is exactly what McFadden will be.

They havent been getting the push upfront there that they have in the past, I'm not sure what to expect from Seymour going forward because he's been very slow to come all the way back from injuries, if the Pats try to trade out of the top of the draft and cant they just may take Long as insurance and Seymour if he doesnt return to his past form could be gone in a year or two.

Iamcanadian
12-13-2007, 01:17 PM
i think that this year its going to be pretty hard to trade out of the number one spot. there isnt many tiers of talent in this draft. i see someone being picked number 2, having the same talent as someone who was picked 10. and with all the teams picking in the top ten (besides the pats) they all need multiple postions, so i dont see any reason to give up picks to move up in this draft. none of those QB's should be taken one, i wouldnt feel comfortable making that desicion. i think the only player that has the talent of being number one plays a position that is probably the least likely (outside of guard, center, and fullback) to be taken with the number 1. but as i said before, i think these backs who have impact rookie campaigns are having a big effect on whether or not a HB is taken one. if your in the whole and have a top 5 pick its most likely that your fans arent too happy. if you take someone who can step in right away, like mcfadden, and put up points, than you have a little more breathing room. i think if they take a guy who will go unoticed by the common fan like dorsey with the number 1, than its just going to look worse for him.

kind of reiterating some of my points in the last post. sry

I think your undervaluating the players in the draft. We aren't even close to knowing who the top players are in this draft and how the scouts and GM's view this year's crop. Most NFL teams don't start to really get down to the nitty gritty of rankings until after the Super Bowl starting with the Senior Bowl. Yes, they have a ranking based on general play but it will undergo a very strong test when the scouts get to see prospects first at the Senior Bowl and then at the combine and during personal workouts. That's when a much clearer picture of the draft begins to unfold. After the Super Bowl many, many more people become involed in the draft process for each organization. It is at that point when the leaks start to get out and real rankings become possible. Until then saying the top 10 are about equal usually turns out to be not true.
Nobody, not Scott or Kiper or any other guru's really have a clue as to the top guys. They have a general ranking but nothing really to back it up. They all depend on leaks to finalize their rankings and their opinions on players.
It is obvious that Dorsey and McFadden are at or near the top, maybe Chris Long as well but then it all becomes fuzzy and people begin to think there isn't much seperation between prospects but believe me when all is said and done, we will have a much clearer picture of the top guys.
As for Miami's pick, they will have to look seriously at a QB or McFadden because paying a 3-4 DE, 60 million dollars really destroys your salary cap structure. Miami and Atlanta also have serious public relations problems and need to give their fan base somebody to make their fans interested enough to buy tickets. A Dorsey or a Long aren't going to sell tickets, a Ryan or a McFadden will. So unless Miami or Atlanta are prepared to take a financial bath, they are going to be looking for somebody to sell tickets.
I could possibly see an Atlanta/Miami trade if Miami has no interest in Ryan and Atlanta does, then a trade within the top 5 becomes possible as weak teams wilkl give up picks to secure a QB.

CC.SD
12-13-2007, 03:08 PM
I don't think the Dolphins should trade down: they already have 2 second rounders, + whatever they get for Jason Taylor (probably another second, conceievably a late first/very early third). That means they'll be getting the first overall pick, plus 4 or 5 other picks in the top 3 rounds. That's a lot of rebuilding power from one draft.

There's really only two guys they can choose that are legit number 1s at this point, Long and Dorsey. I'd go with Long, he's beastly and a proven leader. Dorsey is too, but D Tackles in general don't affect the game as much as a pass rusher who can also stuff the run; plus he brings along Howie as a tutor. That's a helluva pedigree.

flrybranch
12-13-2007, 03:55 PM
The Falcons have far too many holes to give away picks trading up.

They won't trade up for a QB. If Miami is taking the QB then thay won't trade and if Miami doesn't take the QB then Atlanta doesn't have to trade up.

I think Miami is in a really deep hole. So far no one has proven to be worth a $60 mil contract and the top players really don't fit what Miami needs.

My best guess would be DMC. Just glad I don't have to make the decision.

Best of luck to Cam, I really hoped he would have a better rookie year.

Iamcanadian
12-13-2007, 03:59 PM
I don't think the Dolphins should trade down: they already have 2 second rounders, + whatever they get for Jason Taylor (probably another second, conceievably a late first/very early third). That means they'll be getting the first overall pick, plus 4 or 5 other picks in the top 3 rounds. That's a lot of rebuilding power from one draft.

There's really only two guys they can choose that are legit number 1s at this point, Long and Dorsey. I'd go with Long, he's beastly and a proven leader. Dorsey is too, but D Tackles in general don't affect the game as much as a pass rusher who can also stuff the run; plus he brings along Howie as a tutor. That's a helluva pedigree.

Miami plays mostly a 3-4 and DE's in a 3-4 hardly acount for much in the way of sacks. those mostly come from their OLB's. Most 3-4 DE's are run stuffers who let the LB's do most of the tackling. That's a lot of money to pay a guy for run stuffing. it would be different if Miami wants to switch back to a 4-3 but I haven't heard them say that. Seymour and Warren on NE and Smith on Pittsburgh are very solid players but I doubt either franchise would ever pay them the type of money the #1 overall pick commands.

Iamcanadian
12-13-2007, 04:04 PM
The Falcons have far too many holes to give away picks trading up.

They won't trade up for a QB. If Miami is taking the QB then thay won't trade and if Miami doesn't take the QB then Atlanta doesn't have to trade up.

I think Miami is in a really deep hole. So far no one has proven to be worth a $60 mil contract and the top players really don't fit what Miami needs.

My best guess would be DMC. Just glad I don't have to make the decision.

Best of luck to Cam, I really hoped he would have a better rookie year.

They have done it before with Vick. They are desperate to give their fans some renewed hope and definitely need a QB to accomplish that. I think they could well approach Miami to see if a trade up is possible. Weak teams have clearly shown in the past that they will give up picks if a QB is what they want. They cannot assume that Miami won't trade the pick to another team so they can take a QB.

keylime_5
12-13-2007, 04:18 PM
Not to contradict my previous post in this thread, but I've heard that some people have heard that Miami would take Glenn Dorsey #1 overall. FWIW, just the messanger here, I know just as well as anyone else that for all we know this could be just some more garbage rumor crap going around, but hearing that they'd take Dorsey has to mean even the littlest something. I mean, we haven't heard any rumors that they want either of the Longs or a QB yet, so...

Anyways, if Miami ditches Cam Cameron I betcha that Matt Ryan is gonna get a long, hard look at #1.

no love
12-13-2007, 04:20 PM
Here is the trade that I would make. I would trade down to the Jets in order to get Vilma and Pennington and their 1 pick. Thomas is old and creeky. Green is most likely gone and they need a good veteran backup in case Beck fails. This enables them to go back to a 4-3 (which I think better suites their personnel). Taylor back at RE, Thomas at MLB, Vilma at SLB, Crowder at WLB.

Trade the number 1 overall pick for an establishing player that is looking for a way out of his current situation.

keylime_5
12-13-2007, 04:42 PM
All this talk about trading down happens every year amongst teams with top 5 picks. The only times it ever happens are when a franchise QB is involved that one team "has to have" like Mike Vick or Eli Manning, etc. I seriously doubt there's a top 5 pick tradedown this year unless someone falls in love with McFadden and gets New England to sell their pick for cheap. Miami I think is gonna pick 1st overall next April and there's no way around it.

bruschis4all
12-22-2007, 10:12 AM
Bump.

How does Tuna going to Miami change their thinking?


When Parcells took over the Pats they had the Nr. 1 pick. Bledsoe was sitting there waiting for them. Logical choice. When he went to the Jets they also had the nr. 1 pick. He traded it to the Rams. Who took O.Pace. Jets took J.Farrior with their top pick. He got a 1,3 and 4. Then traded down from 6 to 8. Seattle took Walter Jones with 6 pick Jets. That's where he got Farrior. Farrior has turned out to be a good player. But, those other 2 will probably make the HOF.

ATLDirtyBirds
12-22-2007, 10:14 AM
They have done it before with Vick. They are desperate to give their fans some renewed hope and definitely need a QB to accomplish that. I think they could well approach Miami to see if a trade up is possible. Weak teams have clearly shown in the past that they will give up picks if a QB is what they want. They cannot assume that Miami won't trade the pick to another team so they can take a QB.


The difference is Mike Vick is a once in a life time prospect.

keylime_5
12-22-2007, 10:41 AM
Parcells and whoever the Dolphins GM is gonna be this year won't have an easy time trading down this year. I say Miami is locked in at #1 overall no matter what b/c there is nothing close to an elite guy this year they would take, McFadden is the closest thing but teams know Parcells never takes RBs in round one, and Miami has Ronnie Brown. So I think the Miami fans should just lay off the "we gotta trade down" crap I hear every year from teams with top 5 picks, it never happens unless there is a Mike Vick, Eli Manning, Orlando Pace, etc. in the draft. This year we got Glenn Dorsey, Chris Long, and Darren McFadden, no one is gonna trade away a bundle of picks just to move up a few spots for one of those guys.

I honestly think that despite the fact that basically everyone who makes a mock draft puts Glenn Dorsey to Miami #1 overall, come April it's gonna be Bill Parcells and his new head coach who is gonna probably run a 3-4 defense just like Bill did and like Miami has the past few years taking Chris Long ahead of Dorsey, simply because they both grade out very close together but the fact that Long is a perfect 3-4 guy and Dorsey is a horrible fit in the 3-4 making Long the pick. Now if Miami says theyre gonna employ a 4-3 with their likely new coaching staff, then I can't say they'd take anyone over dorsey.

If Matt Ryan has a superman bowl game and then tests out of the roof like Jay Cutler did, then I think Miami might go for the QB, but I doubt that happens, Miami will probably trade or sign a veteran guy and not draft a QB round 1.

Iamcanadian
12-22-2007, 10:48 AM
i think that this year its going to be pretty hard to trade out of the number one spot. there isnt many tiers of talent in this draft. i see someone being picked number 2, having the same talent as someone who was picked 10. and with all the teams picking in the top ten (besides the pats) they all need multiple postions, so i dont see any reason to give up picks to move up in this draft. none of those QB's should be taken one, i wouldnt feel comfortable making that desicion. i think the only player that has the talent of being number one plays a position that is probably the least likely (outside of guard, center, and fullback) to be taken with the number 1. but as i said before, i think these backs who have impact rookie campaigns are having a big effect on whether or not a HB is taken one. if your in the whole and have a top 5 pick its most likely that your fans arent too happy. if you take someone who can step in right away, like mcfadden, and put up points, than you have a little more breathing room. i think if they take a guy who will go unoticed by the common fan like dorsey with the number 1, than its just going to look worse for him.

kind of reiterating some of my points in the last post. sry

You make some good points but I want to point out 1 thing. Miami has Beck penciled in as their starter for next year if everything goes well. Over the past 15 seasons only 3% of the QB's drafted in round 2 have succeeded in the NFL. Miami is going to have to be awfully sure Beck is a 3% er or they could still put up 16 loses next year.
Parcells I believe will run their draft and I'm sure he has a picture in his head about how great franchises are built. He knows it all starts will the QB position and go out from there. The question is 'how good a prospect is Matt Ryan or whoever ends up as the #1 QB prospect in the draft'. Is he a true top 5 talent? If Parcells determines that one of the QB prospects is a top 5 talent, then Parcells is going to take a long look at him for a # of reasons.
1) could he be a true franchise QB
2) how does the team and particularly Cameron view Beck's future
3) cap structure if we have to pay a position player 60 million dollars
4) can a team win a Super Bowl with 60 million dollars going to a position player?
5) Should I trade this pick at all costs because I don't like the top ranked QB and I'm certainly not going to pay a position player 60 million dollars and wreck my team's cap structure?
6) How empty is my stadium going to be if I don't give the fans some real hope and a name player who will sell tickets like Ryan or McFadden.

I finish by saying that I think you could justify paying McFadden 60 million dollars but what does that do for the team which has Brown as its starter unless you trade Brown for a 1st on draft day and switch directions of the team. This is certainly another option.
I believe with Parcells around, Miami will embrace the 3-4 defense making drafting Dorsey or Chris Long with the 1st overall pick impossible as no team running a 3-4 can justify paying a DE 60 million dollars to tie up blockers so the LB's can make the tackle and applying just an average pass rush as most 3-4 DE's do. It would be cap suicide for Miami.
I believe that the most likely option is what Parcells did when he had the 1st overall pick in the draft when he took over the NY Jets. With Orlando Pace the #1 prospect in the draft and needing an OT badly, he still chose to trade Pace for multiple picks as he felt the team needed a lot of help which Pace alone couldn't solve.

Flyboy
12-22-2007, 11:43 AM
All this talk about trading down happens every year amongst teams with top 5 picks. The only times it ever happens are when a franchise QB is involved that one team "has to have" like Mike Vick or Eli Manning, etc. I seriously doubt there's a top 5 pick tradedown this year unless someone falls in love with McFadden and gets New England to sell their pick for cheap. Miami I think is gonna pick 1st overall next April and there's no way around it.

Agreed to the fullest extent.

Thread Killer
12-22-2007, 06:34 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3165580

Dolphins' new boss seeks 'passion,' spirit in players
ESPN.com news services

Updated: December 22, 2007, 2:26 PM ET

Miami's new executive vice president of football operations, Bill Parcells, said on Friday he wants to bring in dedicated players to the onetime NFL power. Speaking during his weekly show on ESPN Radio Primetime, Parcells said he intends to look to draft players marked by a deep "passion for football" for the team that has lost 13 out of 14 games.

"If football is not their most important thing to them other than their immediate family, then I'm probably not going to be interested in them," Parcells said Friday. "That's the [way] I am. And I want people around me that are like that."

The Dolphins likely will have the No. 1 pick in next year's draft, and the franchise is in the midst of its longest postseason drought, six years and counting. Even before Parcells' hiring, Miami's roster already seemed certain for an offseason overhaul.

Parcells said the Dolphins will seek to secure the best available football talent in the 2008 draft regardless of position.

"It's not going to be driven by the media or somebody's poll or some mock draft," he said. "There's a high economic risk in making the first pick of the draft and you have to make sure you pick a solid football player that with good fortune is going to be solid for your franchise for a long time."

My guess is that Parcells is going to TRY to trade down and acquire picks, but if he fails to do so, with the 1st pick in the 2008 NFL draft, the Miami Dolphins select............Chris Long, DE, Virginia.

Don't forget the Al Groh / Parcells connection.:cool:

bruschis4all
12-22-2007, 08:59 PM
I don't see a lot of teams interested in trading up. Maybe, someone falls in love with McFadden. Dallas maybe?? Obviously, Parcells has a relationship with J.Jones. But, if Cleveland finishes 11-5. Those picks will be 25 and 31 if Dallas gets to the Super Bowl. Would Miami want to trade down that far? Dolphins have cap room and two 2nd rounders. Would probably be better off trading down a little and get another 2nd rounder. Can still get an impact player at the top.

toonsterwu
12-25-2007, 10:56 AM
I tend to think the biggest chance for the Dolphins to trade lies with Atlanta if Atlanta hires Marty Schottenheimer. That way, Martyball could get the lead back they need in McFadden. Certainly, a capable lead back could be found in round 2 as a result. That being said, I'm sure the fans on this board would be unhappy if such a move happened. For the casual fan, though, McFadden would be the marquee name for this franchise to go with and get competitive ASAP. Add a Chad Pennington to manage the game, and this team could suddenly be a borderline playoff squad in the NFC.

Here's a wild thought. Marty gets hired as Atlanta. Cam Cameron gets canned in Miami. Marty hires Cam as his OC. Could they work a package with John Beck in there? Cam must have had a say in drafting Beck, and it's hard to envisage Cam losing faith completely in one year. They could find a veteran to work for a year and groom Beck, or perhaps even give Beck a go as the QB. That said, considering the difficulty in trading up to 1, adding Beck into the equation may be too much.

stephenson86
12-25-2007, 11:14 AM
is a trade with dallas not on the cards, two late(ish) 1st rounders for the number 1 overall

Iamcanadian
12-25-2007, 01:26 PM
My guess is that Parcells is going to TRY to trade down and acquire picks, but if he fails to do so, with the 1st pick in the 2008 NFL draft, the Miami Dolphins select............Chris Long, DE, Virginia.

Don't forget the Al Groh / Parcells connection.:cool:

I think Chris Long is a solid football player but I cannot see Miami and Parcells drafting him with the #1 overall pick and paying him 60 million dollars to play DE in a 3-4 defense. A 3-4 DE is paid to ty up blockers so LB's can make the tackle. They rarely get a sack, that is much more the resposibility of the OLB's in a 3-4.
I think if Parcells is forced to use the #1 overall pick because he cannot trade it, then Gholston becomes the guy. Gholston is going to move up the draft charts rapidly in the post season settling in around 2 or 3. He is a junior and the post season is crucial for juniors because they are a lot rawer than seniors but may have a lot more upside as well. Gholston will be a monster in the Merriman mold at OLB in a 3-4, a true impact player in that defense and I cannot see Parcells passing on him unless he trades the pick or has his heart set on Ryan or just maybe McFadden, because paying a QB or RB 60+ million dollars makes a lot more financial sense than paying a position player that kind of money. He is never going to pay a 3-4 DE that kind of money so you can forget Chris Long.

Thread Killer
12-26-2007, 06:21 PM
I think Chris Long is a solid football player but I cannot see Miami and Parcells drafting him with the #1 overall pick and paying him 60 million dollars to play DE in a 3-4 defense. A 3-4 DE is paid to ty up blockers so LB's can make the tackle. They rarely get a sack, that is much more the resposibility of the OLB's in a 3-4.
I think if Parcells is forced to use the #1 overall pick because he cannot trade it, then Gholston becomes the guy. Gholston is going to move up the draft charts rapidly in the post season settling in around 2 or 3. He is a junior and the post season is crucial for juniors because they are a lot rawer than seniors but may have a lot more upside as well. Gholston will be a monster in the Merriman mold at OLB in a 3-4, a true impact player in that defense and I cannot see Parcells passing on him unless he trades the pick or has his heart set on Ryan or just maybe McFadden, because paying a QB or RB 60+ million dollars makes a lot more financial sense than paying a position player that kind of money. He is never going to pay a 3-4 DE that kind of money so you can forget Chris Long.

When did Parcells announce that the team would be running a 3-4 defense? He's picking the coaching and the GM. Not coaching. Either way, a 3-4 DE that can make plays is very valuable. Especially one that can shift inside or outside if the team switches to a 4-3 set from time to time. See Richard Seymour. 6th overall selection in one draft.

energizerbunny
12-26-2007, 09:49 PM
If he goes 3-4 the selection is going to be Gholston.... look at what he has done with his last 3 franchises.... always goes out and gets those edge type players to make the D work


edit: I might add that its going to be very difficult to trade down from that top spot unless someone falls in love with RUN DMC, the guy your going to get at #1 isn't going to be much better than the guy you get at 8 IMO

keylime_5
12-26-2007, 09:54 PM
Gholston #1 overall? Holy crap. I doubt that happens at all, but that would be awesome. I think Chris Long is the pick over Gholston personally assuming they run a 3-4. They'll probably just stick with the hybrid deal where Long would be more of a pass rusher than in a true 3-4. Chris Long is a monster, I seriously doubt whoever picks him in the top 10 uses him simply as a 2 gap defensive end in a 3-4, they'd probably put him to more use as a pass rusher at least on passing downs, and he'd be less of a Richard Seymour (who is more like a DT anyway) who plays DT on 3rd downs, and more like a guy who plays DE on 3rd downs which will open up a ton of possibilities for a defensive coordinator.

JT Jag
12-26-2007, 10:10 PM
I think it would be a shame if Chris Long didn't end up playing in a 4-3 and Vernon Gholston didn't end up playing in a 3-4. I think both formations would offer both of them their best chance to exhibit their skills.

I think Long would be an Aaron Kampman clone in a 4-3, and Gholston projects very similarly to DeMarcus Ware.

That's why, very selfishly for my own entertainment purposes, I project Gholston to the Dolphins and Long to the Rams.

thebow305
12-26-2007, 10:30 PM
If he goes 3-4 the selection is going to be Gholston.... look at what he has done with his last 3 franchises.... always goes out and gets those edge type players to make the D work


edit: I might add that its going to be very difficult to trade down from that top spot unless someone falls in love with RUN DMC, the guy your going to get at #1 isn't going to be much better than the guy you get at 8 IMO

Completely agreed. I think the order goes as follows for right now:

1. Vernon Gholston (clear frontrunner for me right now)
2. Chris Long
3. Jake Long
4. Glenn Dorsey
5. Darren McFadden

619
12-26-2007, 10:57 PM
Completely agreed. I think the order goes as follows for right now:

1. Vernon Gholston (clear frontrunner for me right now)
2. Chris Long
3. Jake Long
4. Glenn Dorsey
5. Darren McFadden

What has Gholston done in the last month or so to make him anyones clear frontrunner?

energizerbunny
12-26-2007, 11:03 PM
What has Gholston done in the last month or so to make him anyones clear frontrunner?

Its less of what he's down and more of what the Dolphins have done.

However its hard to ignore 6'4 260 with great speed and power to toss the best lineman in the draft. Especially when your talking about edge rushers, he is going to be same class as DWARE and perhaps the same class as Merriman physical once April rolls around and the combine is done with.

DWilliams2IndyColts
12-26-2007, 11:32 PM
I think Vernon Gholston. Others posted all of the reasons.

619
12-26-2007, 11:57 PM
Its less of what he's down and more of what the Dolphins have done.

However its hard to ignore 6'4 260 with great speed and power to toss the best lineman in the draft. Especially when your talking about edge rushers, he is going to be same class as DWARE and perhaps the same class as Merriman physical once April rolls around and the combine is done with.

If your going to take a DE first overall its gotta be a Julius Peppers/Mario Williams type of prospect. Not a guy like Gholston who you're not sure will be a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB. Remember the top pick gets a heck of a lot of money and he may not be worth it. Dont get me wrong hes a very solid top 10 pick just not top pick worthy IMO.

MidwayMonster31
12-26-2007, 11:57 PM
Definitely trade down.
Dorsey would make the most sense, if he can play a 3-4 end, which we are not sure if he can.
McFadden is clearly the best player on the board, but they are already paying #2 pick money on Ronnie Brown, so they would be spending way too much money on running backs.
Chris Long is possible because he knows the 3-4 and played end. But I don't think he's worth the pick, unless he goes Vernon Davis on the combine. Parcells should hold up McFadden like a sweepstakes prize and trade with the highest bidder.

toonsterwu
12-27-2007, 12:04 AM
I think, if they can trade down, another possibility might be James Laurinaitis. Sure, not the ideal pick, but he'd be a key anchor in the middle and a safer pick in some respects than some of the other guys. I mean, if they deal down past 3 (which is likely, as I don't see the Jets/Rams dealing up), there's a chance they miss out on Long/Gholston/McFadden (I'd assume he'd be the target of a team dealing up). That leaves guys like Dorsey (a potentially questionable fit depending on the coaching, but assuming that they keep the 3-4), OL. I guess if they deal down, OL becomes a bigger possibility, as their guards could both be gone, and there's no guarantee of Shelton being brought back, leaving Carey and their center. That said, I can see Laurinaitis as a possibility.

Another thought on the Dolphins, although not dealing with the first. For all the talk about the Cowboys making a bold move up, I'm still not sold that

a) they will (if they have some FA defections, they could use the picks to restock)

b) they can (still not sure that the Dolphins would terribly undersell).

That being said, I could see a lesser deal being done between both clubs perhaps involving Carpenter. Someone to start inside and ponder potentially moving outside whenever they can get out of Porter's contract or Taylor moves on. Not sure what it'll take, though. I doubt Carpenter could get first round value, but 3rd round also seems a tad low. So perhaps 2nd. The counter to that is that the 2nd round pick could be an ideal spot to pick up a LB, someone like Derrick Harvey (although they might have to deal up for him), Chris Ellis, Jason Jones, Beau Bell, Ezra Butler, and others. But I could see something happen.

PossumBoy9
12-27-2007, 12:42 AM
As far as the Dolphins trading down is concerned, I think they'd be hurt by St. Louis getting the #2 pick. Since the Rams have Steven Jackson, it'd be perceived that they wouldn't be a threat to draft McFadden, so no team would need to jump in front of the Rams.

toonsterwu
12-27-2007, 01:36 AM
A case has been made by Rams fans that with Steven Jackson's contract being up after 08-09, McFadden could be a viable possibility.

energizerbunny
12-27-2007, 02:31 AM
If your going to take a DE first overall its gotta be a Julius Peppers/Mario Williams type of prospect. Not a guy like Gholston who you're not sure will be a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB. Remember the top pick gets a heck of a lot of money and he may not be worth it. Dont get me wrong hes a very solid top 10 pick just not top pick worthy IMO.

Remember there was alot of talk of Terrell Suggs going first overal in 03' over Carson Palmer... and I think once its all said and done Gholston will be as good or better prospect.

He doesn't have the college production of Suggs(set sack record in 3 yrs), but I think he will grade out much higher than Suggs did as a OLB in the 34.... as many will remember it was questionable if Suggs could make the transition. This could ultimately be the difference.


The question I have with Gholston which will really impact his draft status will be that 40x. I usually don't like throwing these out there but I think with him its going to be a biggy, and could ultimately lead to him being one of the first players off the board.

If he can blaze a sub 4.6 I think he's going to be locked in those first couple of spots, however if he disapoints(like Suggs did) and run over 4.7 it could potentially turn into a different situation. However I doubt that happens.


Another thing thats going to have people buzzing, is once he takes his shirt off and walks across the stage at the combine he is going to have everyone talking, if he can follow it up with strong workouts like I believe he will have
he is going to make himself alot of money.

Combine that with his great Junior season, the success recent highly drafted edge players are having and a weak draft class, and you may have the formula for a future #1.


Edge players live or die with 40s, as stupid as it sounds. I've seen way to many instances of this in the last 10 years to think other wise.


There are certain postions that can have immediate impacts on franchise, Pass rushers are one of those. DE is viewed as the most valued postion on defence by many teams in the nfl, this is why I could easily see him going #1.

brat316
12-27-2007, 07:10 AM
i think the dolphins pick d mac first over all, they lose games by 3 or less or 7 D is there. They need offensive fire power

Soon3r
12-27-2007, 04:18 PM
The Dolphins taking McFadden would be asinine and thank goodness Parcells is calling the shots. A classic example of the dolphin brain trust was predicated last April when they took Ted Ginn. Another example of incompetent drafting.

This with Parcells should be different. Do you guys really think McFadden is an option? SERIOUSLY?..

-They have no soution at Q.B
-Too much loot invested in Brown. McFadden will draw Jamarcus money!
- Jason Taylor is getting old and wants to play for a contender
- Zack Thomas might be done. He's one more concussion away from being a vegatable
-DT's are old and soft. Glenn Dorsey is a real possibilty
- Secondary has major issues

They have released McMichael,Welker and Chambers and you guys think McFadden is a possiblity? SIMPLY AMAZING!!!

They should go Glen Dorsey or perhaps Chris Long since they play a hybrid 4-3/3-4 or the next thing would be to trade down and accumulate picks and hold McFadden hostage for a buyer will to sell the farm for him.

There is NO logic in them getting McFadden. None once so ever!

Crickett
12-27-2007, 04:42 PM
Remember there was alot of talk of Terrell Suggs going first overal in 03' over Carson Palmer... and I think once its all said and done Gholston will be as good or better prospect.

He doesn't have the college production of Suggs(set sack record in 3 yrs), but I think he will grade out much higher than Suggs did as a OLB in the 34.... as many will remember it was questionable if Suggs could make the transition. This could ultimately be the difference.

No, I don't remember that at all. In fact, I remember a lot of people claiming Suggs would be a bust because he was too undersized to play 4-3 defensive end. I also remember not seeing any mocks with him going higher than the Cardinals at #6. Usually to Arizona at #6 or Minnesota at #7.

keylime_5
12-27-2007, 04:53 PM
The Dolphins taking McFadden would be asinine and thank goodness Parcells is calling the shots. A classic example of the dolphin brain trust was predicated last April when they took Ted Ginn. Another example of incompetent drafting.

This with Parcells should be different. Do you guys really think McFadden is an option? SERIOUSLY?..

-They have no soution at Q.B
-Too much loot invested in Brown. McFadden will draw Jamarcus money!
- Jason Taylor is getting old and wants to play for a contender
- Zack Thomas might be done. He's one more concussion away from being a vegatable
-DT's are old and soft. Glenn Dorsey is a real possibilty
- Secondary has major issues

They have released McMichael,Welker and Chambers and you guys think McFadden is a possiblity? SIMPLY AMAZING!!!

They should go Glen Dorsey or perhaps Chris Long since they play a hybrid 4-3/3-4 or the next thing would be to trade down and accumulate picks and hold McFadden hostage for a buyer will to sell the farm for him.

There is NO logic in them getting McFadden. None once so ever!


Add to that the fact that Parcells doesn't ever take RBs in the first round as part of his draft philosophy and there's about 0% chance of Miami drafting McFadden. Brown was the best RB in the league this season until he got hurt the way he was running, they will take Dorsey, Ryan, or one of the Longs.

bruschis4all
12-27-2007, 04:55 PM
I don't see why this won't work in today's NFL. But, I'd like to see a team try two split backs. The way they used to. The backs would have to be versatile. Able to run, block for each other and catch. Like the Niners with T.Rathman/R.Craig or R.Watters/W.Floyd. It's easier for a defense to focus on one rb. If they have to worry about both. Leaves weakside open for traps/counters. I think R.Brown/D.McFadden might be able to do it. I'm sure Miami won't do it. But, I don't see why a 2-back system won't work. Hell, McFadden can even throw the ball. Run him in the shotgun occasionally like Arkansas did.

toonsterwu
12-27-2007, 04:58 PM
You do realize that your two examples were really 1 RB/1FB and not 2 RB's? While Rathman/Floyd were versatile, both were FB's, whereas a Brown/McFadden tandem would both be RB's. Not impossible to do, but it does limit the looks you can operate from when there's 2 RB's.

LonghornsLegend
12-27-2007, 05:13 PM
Parcells passed on Steven Jackson for Julius Jones and we had no rb what so ever on the roster...He's not going to favor taking a rb over a defensive linemen or OLB with the first pick

Soon3r
12-27-2007, 05:36 PM
Add to that the fact that Parcells doesn't ever take RBs in the first round as part of his draft philosophy and there's about 0% chance of Miami drafting McFadden. Brown was the best RB in the league this season until he got hurt the way he was running, they will take Dorsey, Ryan, or one of the Longs.

Thank you!

energizerbunny
12-27-2007, 05:56 PM
No, I don't remember that at all. In fact, I remember a lot of people claiming Suggs would be a bust because he was too undersized to play 4-3 defensive end. I also remember not seeing any mocks with him going higher than the Cardinals at #6. Usually to Arizona at #6 or Minnesota at #7.


Palmer wasn't viewed that slam dunk of a prospect, since he was inconsistent and never really lived up to his prep rankings until his senior year and there was talk that Marvin didn't want to get stuck with a QB and be tied to him for his entire tenure in Cinci.... since there was maybe a little pressure on him to turn it around soon in Cinci and win games early to keep his job... thus the Suggs #1 pick as many thought he'd have the biggest early impact in the draft.

This is why i'm bringing up Gholston as a possibility for that #1 pick.

toonsterwu
12-27-2007, 06:51 PM
I'm not sure that was the case, energizer. From what I remember, and I followed it closely that year for some personal reasons, the final decisions came down to Terence Newman on the defensive side and Carson Palmer/Byron Leftwich on the offensive side. My memory's a bit shoddy these days, so maybe Suggs was an early consideration, but after his 40 time, there was some debate on how far he would fall.

Crickett
12-27-2007, 06:58 PM
I'm not sure that was the case, energizer. From what I remember, and I followed it closely that year for some personal reasons, the final decisions came down to Terence Newman on the defensive side and Carson Palmer/Byron Leftwich on the offensive side. My memory's a bit shoddy these days, so maybe Suggs was an early consideration, but after his 40 time, there was some debate on how far he would fall.

This is the way I remember it too. Suggs never entered into the equation. At least from the time I started following the '03 draft on. Prior to the start of 2003, I didn't really follow the draft and draft prospects all year round.

Gatz
12-27-2007, 10:14 PM
It's really hard trying to predict who they would take now that Parcells is there. I don't know about Parcells taking McFadden with the first pick, and since Parcells will want to run a 3-4, I don't see Dorsey having that high value either. Reaching for a qb after passing up Quinn for Beck? I don't see an offensive lineman worthy of a first pick either, and I am not sure Chris Long would hold that high of a value because I think he fits best as a 4-3 DE.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-27-2007, 11:04 PM
I think Parcells picks Gholston, Long, or a DB if one explodes in value, I can't see him going with a skill position in this year's class.

energizerbunny
12-28-2007, 10:32 AM
He was a early consideration. until he ran.... which is why im bringing him up in this conversation.

Geo
12-28-2007, 01:57 PM
A case has been made by Rams fans that with Steven Jackson's contract being up after 08-09, McFadden could be a viable possibility.
I don't understand their train of thought, myself. Why invest that money in McFadden when it could be used for a proven elite back in S-Jax instead? Especially when Jackson will only be 24 this April.

Iamcanadian
12-28-2007, 02:33 PM
I'm not sure that was the case, energizer. From what I remember, and I followed it closely that year for some personal reasons, the final decisions came down to Terence Newman on the defensive side and Carson Palmer/Byron Leftwich on the offensive side. My memory's a bit shoddy these days, so maybe Suggs was an early consideration, but after his 40 time, there was some debate on how far he would fall.

I agree, this is what I remember although it was Palmer who clearly had the lead.

D-Unit
12-28-2007, 02:33 PM
Wouldn't Parcells let the HC do the grocery shopping??? LOL.

Parcells wish list:

Chris Long
Chris Long
Chris Long
Chris Long
Chris Long

Trade

Iamcanadian
12-28-2007, 03:04 PM
When did Parcells announce that the team would be running a 3-4 defense? He's picking the coaching and the GM. Not coaching. Either way, a 3-4 DE that can make plays is very valuable. Especially one that can shift inside or outside if the team switches to a 4-3 set from time to time. See Richard Seymour. 6th overall selection in one draft.

Parcells, whether he keeps Cameron who is a 3-4 guy or will hire someone else who will be a 3-4 guy, isn't going to switch defenses. Parcells isn't going to be interested in anybody who isn't interested in running a 3-4. He believes in that defense and will be comfortable drafting players for it.
New England drafted Seymour #6 when they were still a standard 4-3 team. BB, when he took over the team switched Seymour to DE.
A 3-4 DE may be valuable but they aren't considered the primory positions in a 3-4 defense. A NT, OLB's and CB's are the primory positions for a 3-4 team. There is absolutely no way Parcells will draft a DE with the #1 pick overall and pay him 60+ million dollars to play a secondary position on a 3-4 team. It not only would completely reck the salary structure of Miami but a 3-4 DE simply isn't going to impact Miami defense all that much.
Parcells will try hard to trade down probably with Atlanta who if they hire Schotty, will be looking for a marquee RB to have in his offense or to hand Marty, Ryan, should he rank high enough to warrent this high a pick.
Parcells will then draft Gholston who plays a primary position in a 3-4, or if Atlanta passes on Ryan, he will also be a candidate. Why Gholston, because in my opinion, he will pass Chris Long as a prospect before the draft and will be very close to Dorsey before all is said and done. He's only a junior and juniors can rise fast in the post season as they often have a much higher ceiling than seniors.
Parcells isn't going to care who ranks slightly higher than Gholston if Dorsey even ends up ahead of him. He will look at Miami salary structure, the position Gholston plays in a 3-4 and take the primary position guy. Parcells also knows that a QB is the best guy to pay top dollar to as on all great teams, the QB is always the highest paid player and this will keep Ryan in the picture to the end.
It is extremely difficult in the cap era to have anybody but your QB as the highest paid player on your team. Making anybody else the top paid player makes it practically impossible to have a franchise QB as you won't be able to afford his salary. This is one of the reasons why QB's are selected so often with the #1 overall pick.

PossumBoy9
12-28-2007, 05:50 PM
A case has been made by Rams fans that with Steven Jackson's contract being up after 08-09, McFadden could be a viable possibility.

It conceivable, but not likely, IMO.

D-Unit
12-28-2007, 06:13 PM
Parcells, whether he keeps Cameron who is a 3-4 guy or will hire someone else who will be a 3-4 guy, isn't going to switch defenses. Parcells isn't going to be interested in anybody who isn't interested in running a 3-4. He believes in that defense and will be comfortable drafting players for it.
New England drafted Seymour #6 when they were still a standard 4-3 team. BB, when he took over the team switched Seymour to DE.
A 3-4 DE may be valuable but they aren't considered the primory positions in a 3-4 defense. A NT, OLB's and CB's are the primory positions for a 3-4 team. There is absolutely no way Parcells will draft a DE with the #1 pick overall and pay him 60+ million dollars to play a secondary position on a 3-4 team. It not only would completely reck the salary structure of Miami but a 3-4 DE simply isn't going to impact Miami defense all that much.
Parcells will try hard to trade down probably with Atlanta who if they hire Schotty, will be looking for a marquee RB to have in his offense or to hand Marty, Ryan, should he rank high enough to warrent this high a pick.
Parcells will then draft Gholston who plays a primary position in a 3-4, or if Atlanta passes on Ryan, he will also be a candidate. Why Gholston, because in my opinion, he will pass Chris Long as a prospect before the draft and will be very close to Dorsey before all is said and done. He's only a junior and juniors can rise fast in the post season as they often have a much higher ceiling than seniors.
Parcells isn't going to care who ranks slightly higher than Gholston if Dorsey even ends up ahead of him. He will look at Miami salary structure, the position Gholston plays in a 3-4 and take the primary position guy. Parcells also knows that a QB is the best guy to pay top dollar to as on all great teams, the QB is always the highest paid player and this will keep Ryan in the picture to the end.
It is extremely difficult in the cap era to have anybody but your QB as the highest paid player on your team. Making anybody else the top paid player makes it practically impossible to have a franchise QB as you won't be able to afford his salary. This is one of the reasons why QB's are selected so often with the #1 overall pick.
Parcells wanted to draft DE Marcus Spears at 12 but was convinced by others (Jeff Ireland) that Ware wasn't going to last till 20, so he crossed his fingers and hoped that they were right. They were.

Of course Parcells would draft a DE. He'd draft the best front 7 player available that fills a need. The difficulty of finding a 3-4 DE the caliber of Chris Long is so rare. Tweener DE/OLBs types are very common. He could easily address that later.

Also, who says Jason Taylor is an odd fit? Did you guys see what Parcells did with Greg Ellis? With Taylor and Porter off the edges as OLBs in his 3-4 scheme, Parcells may already have those immediate needs filled. He could also use Matt Roth in that role. He will look to worry about the future of the position as the time becomes more needy. Right now, he'll look to patch the big holes.

Right now, I can't see him passing on Long unless a very attractive trade offer comes his way.

He could end up with something like this:

DE Chris Long
NT Keith Traylor
DE Vonnie Holliday
OLB Jason Taylor
ILB Channing Crowder
ILB Zach Thomas
OLB Joey Porter

toonsterwu
12-28-2007, 06:14 PM
Really a side note, but there seems to be a growing crowd of folks that think Chris Long is better as a 3-4 OLB in the 3-4. It'll be interesting to see how he gets treated.

BuddyCHRIST
12-28-2007, 06:21 PM
Alot will probably depend on how much Long weighs, if he's not over 280 than his 3-4 DE stock will drop.

D-Unit
12-28-2007, 06:22 PM
Really a side note, but there seems to be a growing crowd of folks that think Chris Long is better as a 3-4 OLB in the 3-4. It'll be interesting to see how he gets treated.
Yeah, that seems to be an idea floating around. I think that would be a mistake. I really do. The kids got a motor to do damage at the line. Put him in situations where he doesn't attack on every down and instead put him in open space... where he has to follow the RB or TE out of the backfield in coverage.. not sure he has the speed or range to keep up or the pass coverage techniques to do an adequate job. Sik 'em on the QB all day long and you'd most likely get the best results.

D-Unit
12-28-2007, 06:24 PM
Alot will probably depend on how much Long weighs, if he's not over 280 than his 3-4 DE stock will drop.
He can hit any weight his NFL team will want him to. He's got the frame to add more, but I don't think he needs to necessarily.

Parcells wanted Spears at 285 and asked him to drop 15 pounds to get there by training camp. To his credit Spears did exactly that.

toonsterwu
12-28-2007, 06:24 PM
Well, the thing is, if Chris Long is asked to move to OLB, he wouldn't keep the 270-280 number. He'd probably drop down to maximize his athleticism and play perhaps from 255-265. The raw athleticism is there to make the move. Heck, the raw athleticism is possible to slide him into ILB if a coach was crazy enough, although I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to do that.

I still do think he's better off with his hands down, and in particular, as a 4-3 lineman.

D-Unit
12-28-2007, 06:27 PM
Well, the thing is, if Chris Long is asked to move to OLB, he wouldn't keep the 270-280 number. He'd probably drop down to maximize his athleticism and play perhaps from 255-265. The raw athleticism is there to make the move. Heck, the raw athleticism is possible to slide him into ILB if a coach was crazy enough, although I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to do that.

I still do think he's better off with his hands down, and in particular, as a 4-3 lineman.
Definitely agree with that.

I also think he'd be better in Wade Phillips' 3-4 than Bill Parcells' 3-4 scheme.

draftguru151
12-28-2007, 08:26 PM
I think the Parcells stuff is a bit too much. While I'm sure he'll have his hand in some of the decision making, he isn't coaching and he isn't the GM.

SF Dolphin Fan
12-28-2007, 09:59 PM
As exciting a prospect as McFadden is, I think Chris Long is the perfect fit and the perfect building block for Miami's defense. The Dolphins have a lot of holes, but the biggest weakness is run defense especially to the perimeters. Long is very stout against the run and the type of guy who will get a lot of sacks on sheer determination. He also has the character traits, toughness and leadership to merit such a high pick. Long would be a good start for the Dolphins.

Gi-15
12-29-2007, 12:22 AM
Is anybody special enough that its worth trading up for? Cause trading down is really the best solution for miami, they have so many holes...

D-Unit
12-29-2007, 01:32 AM
I think the Parcells stuff is a bit too much. While I'm sure he'll have his hand in some of the decision making, he isn't coaching and he isn't the GM.
I wouldn't underestimate Parcells. If his fingerprints are going to be on this new project of his, you better believe he won't be riding the backseat without full control of the wheel. He'll find a GM that will work WITH him who he can fire ideas back and forth with... A guy like Jeff Ireland who has a mind of his own and isn't afraid of talking back to Parcells, yet works well with him because they understand each other, respect each other and can find a workable medium. He may end up keeping Cameron, but Miami most definitely will start building a real base 3-4 Defense.

A bit too much? No way. This is ALL Parcells now baby. Just sit back, watch and enjoy the ride as the dethrowning of the Patriots is about to begin.

D-Unit
12-29-2007, 01:33 AM
Is anybody special enough that its worth trading up for? Cause trading down is really the best solution for miami, they have so many holes...
Actually, Chris Long is worth trading up for.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-29-2007, 02:02 AM
I think the Parcells stuff is a bit too much. While I'm sure he'll have his hand in some of the decision making, he isn't coaching and he isn't the GM.

While I'm not entirely sure how much control Parcells will take with general roster moves, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he has veto power on what the Dolphins do with (at least) their 1st round pick.

If I had to pick two players that I think the Dolphins' final decision will come down to, it would be between Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey. Jake Long's position might be drafted higher on average, but while I could see need driving him up draft boards in general, I don't think the Dolphins would regard spending #1 money on him a worthwhile investment. Gholston is an intriguing idea, but he'd have to have a dominant offseason and spending that much money on an outside linebacker seems a bit excessive.

I hear people say that Dorsey would line up at 3-4 defensive end, but the guy plays with quite a base, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he convinces the Dolphins he would be a viable option at nosetackle. Of course, what his weights at the combine and his pro day are would be key here, and I've heard measurements that put him at anywhere between 300 and 320 lbs.

If Dorsey doesn't end up looking heavy enough to hold down the center of that Dolphin defense, then it'll likely be up to Chris Long looking heavy enough to hold down one side of that Dolphin d-line. Let me just say that I'd be a bit shocked to see Long go #1 if the Dolphins consider him an outside linebacker.

D-Unit
12-29-2007, 07:47 PM
I could see Dorsey being the pick eventhough everyone here doesn't like the idea of him in the 3-4. Parcells wanted Kevin Williams instead of Newman.

Geo
12-29-2007, 07:53 PM
I'm in the camp that thinks Dorsey can play in the 3-4, nose tackle or otherwise, myself.

DChess
12-29-2007, 11:03 PM
I'm in the camp that thinks Dorsey can play in the 3-4, nose tackle or otherwise, myself.

i agree with this statement, i really dont understand the argument against it, its a versatile dlineman with great size, but i dont know if i would justify paying a 3-4 DE 60mil.

Babylon
12-29-2007, 11:47 PM
i agree with this statement, i really dont understand the argument against it, its a versatile dlineman with great size, but i dont know if i would justify paying a 3-4 DE 60mil.



Richard Seymour?

Finsfan79
12-31-2007, 12:38 PM
i agree with this statement, i really dont understand the argument against it, its a versatile dlineman with great size, but i dont know if i would justify paying a 3-4 DE 60mil.

I dont think I could justify any player in this draft getting 60 million

keylime_5
12-31-2007, 01:34 PM
Dorsey would be a square peg in a round hole in a 3-4. I don't think Miami is gonna run a 3-4 next year anyways, or at least not a true 3-4. They will have a 4-3 and maybe show a few 3-4 looks once and a while. But I think they pick Dorsey without having a true 3-4. If Miami hires a coach who is gonna run a strict 3-4 like Parcells always did, then he wouldn't take Dorsey. Teams don't draft players who don't fit their system, and Dorsey does not fit the 3-4. He could play in it, but would struggle....if he was in a 4-3 or a cover 2 defense then he'd flourish.

Iamcanadian
12-31-2007, 03:43 PM
Dorsey would be a square peg in a round hole in a 3-4. I don't think Miami is gonna run a 3-4 next year anyways, or at least not a true 3-4. They will have a 4-3 and maybe show a few 3-4 looks once and a while. But I think they pick Dorsey without having a true 3-4. If Miami hires a coach who is gonna run a strict 3-4 like Parcells always did, then he wouldn't take Dorsey. Teams don't draft players who don't fit their system, and Dorsey does not fit the 3-4. He could play in it, but would struggle....if he was in a 4-3 or a cover 2 defense then he'd flourish.

I agree that they won't draft Dorsey but I strongly disagree that Miami won't be a 3-4 team. Parcells if he retains Cameron, will do so because Cameron is a 3-4 HC. San Diego ran a 3-4 and he flirted with a 3-4 this season even though his personnel weren't suited to it.
If Parcells hires another HC, his own man, he will hire a 3-4 HC for sure. That is the defense Parcells knows and understands and he isn't going to switch now. There is absolutely no way Dorsey would be effective as a NT in a 3-4, they would switch him to DE.
Parcell will look closely at a QB to see if one exists in this draft who can be a franchise type, if he fails to find a QB worthy of being drafted #1, he will draft Gholston over Dorsey and Chris Long every day of the week. OLBers dominate as pass rushers in a 3-4 and without a dominate OLB, you can flush the effectiveness of your 3-4 defense down the toilet. Gholston is very close to a Merriman and Parcells will salivate about having him on the Dolphins. Parcells has always shown a tendency to not care about player's rankings when drafting, he will take what he thinks will make his defense dominate.

Number 10
12-31-2007, 03:49 PM
Gholston if they keep the pick

Eaglez.Fan
12-31-2007, 03:54 PM
If they take McFadden it is almost a complete waste. The Dolphins are a bad football team no doubting that but one of their strengths in the running game now why wouldn't you address something that will actually help you.

draftguru151
12-31-2007, 03:56 PM
I agree that they won't draft Dorsey but I strongly disagree that Miami won't be a 3-4 team. Parcells if he retains Cameron, will do so because Cameron is a 3-4 HC. San Diego ran a 3-4 and he flirted with a 3-4 this season even though his personnel weren't suited to it.
If Parcells hires another HC, his own man, he will hire a 3-4 HC for sure. That is the defense Parcells knows and understands and he isn't going to switch now. There is absolutely no way Dorsey would be effective as a NT in a 3-4, they would switch him to DE.
Parcell will look closely at a QB to see if one exists in this draft who can be a franchise type, if he fails to find a QB worthy of being drafted #1, he will draft Gholston over Dorsey and Chris Long every day of the week. OLBers dominate as pass rushers in a 3-4 and without a dominate OLB, you can flush the effectiveness of your 3-4 defense down the toilet. Gholston is very close to a Merriman and Parcells will salivate about having him on the Dolphins. Parcells has always shown a tendency to not care about player's rankings when drafting, he will take what he thinks will make his defense dominate.

Cameron is an offensive coach, he has nothing to do with the 3-4 in Miami. The Dolphins have run a 3-4 since Saban got here. If Capers is still here we will run a 3-4, he is a 3-4 coach and got a big extension last off season to be our DC. And how did we have have the personnel to run it? None of that first paragraph made any sense.

T-Rat42
01-01-2008, 02:48 PM
D-Mac. Have we learned nothing from Adrian Peterson? Succesful teams in the NFL have two running backs capable of starting and Jesse Chatman and Lorenzo Booker are average at best. When you have the 1st pick you take best available which is clearly D-Mac. He has as much potential as anyone else in a long time and it's going to take the Dolphins at least 5 years to climb out of this hole so to start you can get one of the best playmakers in all of college football.

finsfan4life
01-01-2008, 02:54 PM
D-Mac. Have we learned nothing from Adrian Peterson? Succesful teams in the NFL have two running backs capable of starting and Jesse Chatman and Lorenzo Booker are average at best. When you have the 1st pick you take best available which is clearly D-Mac. He has as much potential as anyone else in a long time and it's going to take the Dolphins at least 5 years to climb out of this hole so to start you can get one of the best playmakers in all of college football.

Jesse Chatman and Lorenzo Booker are the third and fourth string runningbacks. My guess is that you knew that but you wanted to say something about Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams.

Crickett
01-01-2008, 03:10 PM
D-Mac. Have we learned nothing from Adrian Peterson?

Here is what I have learned. I have learned that projecting success that one person has had on to another person is usually a huge mistake. Eli Manning is not Peyton. Sinorice Moss is not Santana. Cedric Benson is not Ricky Williams without the addiction to weed. And Darren McFadden is not Adrian Peterson. Now, I'm not saying D-Mac won't be a good NFL running back, but if you're expecting him to have the kind of success that AD had prior to the LCL injury, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

toonsterwu
01-01-2008, 03:43 PM
It is interesting that Al Groh is supposedly selling Chris Long as a Mike Vrabel type player. I think that he has to slim down a tiny bit, but the way they've utilized him today and all year, I'm coming around to it a lot more. I bought the idea before, wasn't 100% sold on it. But it's growing on me as his best spot in the 3-4. Long has the tenacity that Parcells would probably love.

Really a side note that I didn't know where to put in, but if he stayed as a 3-4 DE in the NFL, I don't know why I didn't think of it, but Phil Hansen is probably a great comparison.

Babylon
01-01-2008, 03:52 PM
It is interesting that Al Groh is supposedly selling Chris Long as a Mike Vrabel type player. I think that he has to slim down a tiny bit, but the way they've utilized him today and all year, I'm coming around to it a lot more. I bought the idea before, wasn't 100% sold on it. But it's growing on me as his best spot in the 3-4. Long has the tenacity that Parcells would probably love.

Really a side note that I didn't know where to put in, but if he stayed as a 3-4 DE in the NFL, I don't know why I didn't think of it, but Phil Hansen is probably a great comparison.


I wouldnt have a problem with Chris Long being a choice for the Dolphins but i'm not looking for him to be the next Mike Vrabel, i think he could be used better playing in other teams backfield not covering tightends and backs in coverage.