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d34ng3l021
12-05-2007, 03:37 AM
Saw it at the NFC North boards...

QB Drew Brees
RB Deuce McAlister
FB Ovie Mughelli
WR Steve Smith
WR Marques Colston
TE Eric Johnson
OT Jammal Brown
OG Davis Joseph
OC
OG Mark Wahle
OT Jordan Gross

DE Julius Peppers
DE Will Smith
DT Rod Coleman
DT Jovan Haye
WLB Derrick Brooks
MLB Barrett Rudd
SLB Michael Boley
CB DeAngelo Hall
CB Mike McKenzie
FS Josh Bullocks
SS Lawyer Milloy

K John Kasay
P Michael Koenen
KR Jerious Norwood
PR Mark Jones

Caddy
12-05-2007, 05:07 AM
QB: Jeff Garcia
RB: Deuce McCallister
FB: Mike Karney
WR: Joey Galloway
WR: Steve Smith
TE: Alge Crumpler
LT: Jamaal Brown
LG: Mike Wahle
C: Jeff Faine
RG: Davin Joseph
RT: Jordan Gross

LE: Julius Peppers
DT: Jovan Haye
DT: Rod Coleman
RE: John Abraham
WLB: Derrick Brooks
MLB: Barrett Ruud
SLB: Michael Boley
CB: Ronde Barber
CB: Mike McKenzie
FS: Josh Bullocks
SS: Jermaine Phillips

K: John Kasay
P: Josh Bidwell
KR: Jerious Norwood
PR: Lance Moore

dbtb135
12-05-2007, 09:23 AM
This year or just based on talent alone? This year, I'd say:

QB: Drew Brees, Jeff Garcia
RB: Earnest Graham, Jerious Norwood (pretty weak)
FB: Ovie Mughelli
WR: Roddy White, Marques Colston (pretty good)
WR: Joey Galloway, Steve Smith
TE: Alge Crumpler, Jeff King
LT: Jammal Brown
LG: Arron Sears
C: Justin Hartwig or Jeff Faine
RG: Jahri Evans
RT: Jeremy Trueblood

DE: Will Smith
NT: Hollis Thomas/Maake Kemoeatu (a clear weak position of the South)
UT: Jovan Haye
DE: Julius Peppers
SLB: Michael Boley easily
MLB: Jon Beason/Barrett Ruud
WLB: Derrick Brooks (another weak position)
CB: DeAngelo Hall
CB: Mike McKenzie
SS: Jermaine Phillips
FS: Tanard Jackson/Josh Bullocks

K: John Kasay
P: Josh Bidwell
PR: Lance Moore
KR: Jerious Norwood

Honorable mention: DeShaun Foster, John Abraham, Chris Gamble, Roman Harper, Ronde Barber.

Final count: 8 Falcons, 10 Saints, 9 Panthers, 12 Bucs.

iloxygenil
12-07-2007, 08:35 AM
If you don't put John Abraham at RE then your list is pretty much bogus. There isn't a better DE...different but not better. He's a freak. RB Deuce is pretty much hard to top as an every down back...I want Norwood as my situational backup to him though. WR is tough to pick just 2, but Colston and Smith are hard to argue against, but Joey and Roddy have cases as well...this year I'd have to go with Galloway and White, but overall...Smith can't be passed up. TE Crumpler, finally getting over his injuries this season and the case of the dropsies he had early on due to not being in camp you have to take him. UT is Rod Coleman if he's healthy, there isn't a better one in the league.

d34ng3l021
12-07-2007, 02:50 PM
I still havent gotten used to the fact that John Abraham is our RE. Recent trade. His image as a Jet. Missing so much of the first year with injuries. Him over Will Smith for sure.

And I considered White and Galloway, but Smith and Colston are great compliments.

ATLDirtyBirds
12-07-2007, 05:55 PM
I still havent gotten used to the fact that John Abraham is our RE. Recent trade. His image as a Jet. Missing so much of the first year with injuries. Him over Will Smith for sure.

And I considered White and Galloway, but Smith and Colston are great compliments.



AH! You think it would be easy with only 4-5 good players to remember one of the best!

d34ng3l021
12-07-2007, 10:19 PM
I dont know. I ALWAYS forget him. I forget him now. I dont remember to vote for him in the Pro Bowl...

I fail at life.

dbtb135
12-08-2007, 12:43 AM
If you don't put John Abraham at RE then your list is pretty much bogus.

Well, I based mine off this year. Abraham hasn't been beastly this year.

ATLDirtyBirds
12-08-2007, 08:15 AM
Well, I based mine off this year. Abraham hasn't been beastly this year.


Considering he is pretty much our only threat to get to the QB, and has to deal with double teams, yes he is.


And what makes Will Smith more beastly?

Smith: 5 sacks, 1 FF, 3 passes defended

Abraham: 7 sacks, 3 FF, 4 passes defended

etk
12-08-2007, 08:53 PM
QB: Drew Brees
HB: Earnest Graham
FB: Ovie Mughelli...close call, there's some good ones
WR: Joey Galloway, Marques Colston, Steve Smith
TE: Jeff King
LT: Jammal Brown
LG: Arron Sears
C: Jeff Faine
RG: Davin Joseph
RT: Jordan Gross

LE: Julius Peppers
RE: John Abraham
DT: Jovan Haye
DT: Damione Lewis
SLB: Michael Boley
MLB: Barrett Ruud
WLB: Derrick Brooks
CB: DeAngelo Hall
CB: Ronde Barber
CB: Mike McKenzie
FS: Tanard Jackson
SS: Jermaine Phillips

K: John Kasay
P: Josh Bidwell
KR: Jerious Norwood
PR: Lance Moore

12 on each team because I'm Canadian. 11 Bucs, 6 Saints, 6 Panthers, 5 Falcons.

d34ng3l021
12-09-2007, 02:00 AM
Galloway over White? White has more catches, more yards, but just 2 less TDs...

etk
12-09-2007, 09:25 AM
Galloway over White? White has more catches, more yards, but just 2 less TDs...

Stats aren't everything...Galloway is the biggest deep threat in the league.

Draft King
12-09-2007, 09:41 AM
I agree with you keeping Crumpler off the list, Jeff King has showed more this year. Though the White/Galloway choice must have been difficult I actually think you made the right one. I don't think Steve Smith deserves it this year in particular though, not saying he's bad, but his QB troubles have caused a real drop off in his stats. Not saying stats are everything, but in a year where he isn't getting the ball, I just don't think he should be up there.

Personally, I would choose Jerious Norwood > Earnest Graham but maybe that's just the homer in me because I have seen what he can do with the ball in his hands. He is a proven take it the the house guy who has now averaged over 6.0 yds/carry in both of his 2 years. The Falcons should really give him at least 10 touches a game and probably more, and I guess you can say that he hasn't had to ball enough to prove anything.

Overall pretty good list and I have shown you my thoughts and all that. I really think Rod Coleman would give those guys a run for their money had he not been injured the first couple weeks, and Lawyer Milloy at least deserves consideration. Finally somebody gives Michael Boley some recognition.

ATLDirtyBirds
12-09-2007, 10:21 AM
Stats aren't everything...Galloway is the biggest deep threat in the league.


http://www.nbcsports.com/files/nbcsports/nfl/Randy%20moss/RandyMoss1_320x250.jpg

iloxygenil
12-09-2007, 11:15 AM
Another thing that is REALLY annoying. How can you leave the BEST DB in our division off the list? I don't care if you don't like Deangelo Hall, he's the best, and is the only REAL option at CB in this division. Barber had his day, and Mike...well...he's part of the 28th ranked pass defense...man he's good. Come on now, no Deangelo is just hating on him and the Falcons.

Saints67
01-13-2008, 01:51 PM
I'm seeing alot of Mughelli over Karney...wow.

Karney as the best FB, not even close.

BamaFalcon59
01-13-2008, 03:20 PM
Well, I based mine off this year. Abraham hasn't been beastly this year.

Will Smith- 7 sacks, 66 tackles, 7 tackles for loss, 2 forced fumbles, 3 pass deflections

Julius Peppers- 2.5 sacks, 30 tackles, 2 tackles for loss, 3 forced fumbles, 2 blocked kicks, 1 interception, 5 pass deflections

John Abraham- 10 sacks, 32 tackles, 4 tackles for loss, 4 forced fumbles, 4 pass deflections

I think Abraham easily had the best year of the three.

Chucky
01-13-2008, 09:15 PM
Here is my new team. Comments welcome

QB: Drew Brees(it was tough between him and Garcia)
RB: Earnest Graham
WR: Joey Galloway
WR:Marques Colston
TE:They all suck, Crumpler I guess, but thats all based on name
LT:Jammal Brown
LG: Arron Sears
C: Jeff Faine
RG:Jahri Evans(im not sure if he plays left or right, but if he plays left replace him with sears and put Joseph at RG)
RT: Jeremy Trueblood

DE:Will Smith
DT:Javon Haye
DT:Rod Coleman
DE:John Abraham
WLB:Derrick Brooks
MLB: Barret Ruud
SLB: Michael Boley
CB: Deangelo Hall
CB:Ronde Barber
SS:Jermaine Phillips
FS: Tanard Jackson

Ouch no panthers, thats a little weird but i dont no where iwould fit one in, based on this years play only

etk
01-13-2008, 10:20 PM
Without even thinking about the other RTs in the division, I can tell you Trueblood is not the best in our division or any division for that matter. He's trash.

Chucky
01-13-2008, 10:37 PM
Without even thinking about the other RTs in the division, I can tell you Trueblood is not the best in our division or any division for that matter. He's trash.

He really isnt trash, he improved a lot this year(and even got a mention as Peter Kings RT on his all-pro team I know King is trash but still), Just cuz he couldnt handle strahan, it doesnt make him trash. THe only competition was Jordan Gross.

etk
01-13-2008, 10:41 PM
He really isnt trash, he improved a lot this year(and even got a mention as Peter Kings RT on his all-pro team I know King is trash but still), Just cuz he couldnt handle strahan, it doesnt make him trash. THe only competition was Jordan Gross.

Trueblood can't handle a bull rush. His pass pro technique is disgustingly sloppy. Gross is a better overall lineman.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-14-2008, 01:13 PM
Mike Wahle isn't a good guard anymore, and really hasn't been since he came to Carolina. Well, I guess he was decent the first year. Certainly not Pro Bowl quality (even though he was selected that year)

edit: and while Jeff King was a solid player for us this year, he might not even be the starter next. just run 3-4 WR sets with Galloway/Colston/Smith/White, forget TE

dbtb135
01-18-2008, 05:35 AM
Will Smith- 7 sacks, 66 tackles, 7 tackles for loss, 2 forced fumbles, 3 pass deflections

Julius Peppers- 2.5 sacks, 30 tackles, 2 tackles for loss, 3 forced fumbles, 2 blocked kicks, 1 interception, 5 pass deflections

John Abraham- 10 sacks, 32 tackles, 4 tackles for loss, 4 forced fumbles, 4 pass deflections

I think Abraham easily had the best year of the three.

Abraham also had 3 sacks and 1 FF to end the year after I made my list. Should have spoken up about a month ago, you would have looked smarter...

dbtb135
01-18-2008, 05:38 AM
True's owning by Michael Strahan will leave a lasting impression in the offseason, but he was much better than that this season. Plus, it's Michael Strahan 1 on 1 with a 2nd year guy we're talking about.

etk
01-18-2008, 12:45 PM
True's owning by Michael Strahan will leave a lasting impression in the offseason, but he was much better than that this season. Plus, it's Michael Strahan 1 on 1 with a 2nd year guy we're talking about.

I don't know if I blame it on Trueblood, for letting a future HOFer get in his head, or our OL coach for not teaching the proper fundamentals. Trueblood didn't bend his knees well and thus he got smacked around. He became Strahan's rag doll. This is something I see everytime Trueblood goes up against a bullrusher...his technique goes out of whack. If this becomes an even more consistent theme I think we should move Sears over to RT, where he has the width and body strength to keep guys like Strahan at bay.

dbtb135
01-18-2008, 07:15 PM
I don't know if I blame it on Trueblood, for letting a future HOFer get in his head, or our OL coach for not teaching the proper fundamentals. Trueblood didn't bend his knees well and thus he got smacked around.

Yeah, I'm sure having 10 years of experience on him and being world quicker was just an afterthought.

etk
01-20-2008, 10:35 PM
Yeah, I'm sure having 10 years of experience on him and being world quicker was just an afterthought.

Huh? Sometimes I don't understand your sarcasm.

BlindSite
01-22-2008, 03:19 AM
Here is my new team. Comments welcome

QB: Drew Brees(it was tough between him and Garcia)
RB: Earnest Graham
WR: Joey Galloway
WR:Marques Colston
TE:They all suck, Crumpler I guess, but thats all based on name
LT:Jammal Brown
LG: Arron Sears
C: Jeff Faine
RG:Jahri Evans(im not sure if he plays left or right, but if he plays left replace him with sears and put Joseph at RG)
RT: Jeremy Trueblood

DE:Will Smith
DT:Javon Haye
DT:Rod Coleman
DE:John Abraham
WLB:Derrick Brooks
MLB: Barret Ruud
SLB: Michael Boley
CB: Deangelo Hall
CB:Ronde Barber
SS:Jermaine Phillips
FS: Tanard Jackson

Ouch no panthers, thats a little weird but i dont no where iwould fit one in, based on this years play only

How about at WR, RT at the very least.

Draft King
12-30-2008, 03:44 PM
It's been a good year since I've made a list like this, so I'll do what I can. Interesting looking back at these older lists. I'll try my best to give some reasoning.

QB: Drew Brees
ALT: Matt Ryan

Drew Brees finished just 16 yards shy of Dan Marino's single season passing record, and is a legit option for OPOY. Alot of times this year he was forced to carry this offense and although his team missed the playoffs hes easily the #1 choice. I selected Matt Ryan as the alternate because of what he was able to accomplish as a rookie, and on a team expected to have a dismal season. He is 2nd only to Peyton Manning in pass yardage as a rookie.

RB: Michael Turner
ALT: DeAngelo Williams

Michael Turner ended up being the biggest free agent acquisition of the year, and has a shot, albeit a small one, at both the MVP and OPOY. With an offense that struggled at just about everything a year earlier, he ran for 1699 yards and 17 TDs. DeAngelo Williams did not impress me in his 2 games against the Falcons, but after that the man proved to be a horse. In his breakout game against Tampa Bay he broke tackles left and right, and in total he ran for an astounding 20 TDs and just above 1500 yards.

FB: Ovie Mughelli
ALT: Mike Karney

Not gonna lie I'm basing this one off of what I have heard and seen. Mughelli was a huge component in paving way for Michael Turner's success. Karney is a close second but IMO is not quite the blocker Ovie is.

WR: Steve Smith
WR: Roddy White
ALT: Antonio Bryant/Marques Colston (too close to choose)

Steve Smith is absolutely clutch and is proving that his past season was a fluke, having to play without his bud Delhomme. When the ball is in the
air, 9 times out of 10 the small but agile Smith will come down with it. After him I have Roddy White, who now has had his 2nd huge year in a row. Following 2 seasons in the NFL, there was alot of doubt about White's ability to hold onto the football, but he has proved his critics wrong now. The alternates were Bryant and Colston. Bryant ended this year in a huge way, he just has to avoid off the field problems with coaches and such and he is a stud. Colston again in his 3rd year did well, but this is a great division for receivers.

TE: Don't Know who to pick :(

OT: Jammal Brown
OG: Davin Joseph
OC: Jeff Faine
OG: Jahri Evans
OT: Jordan Gross
ALTs: Arron Sears, G
Harvey Dahl, G/T

Offensive line is tough to choose because nobody really pays that much attention to them. I'm going off of what I've heard from announcers during a game and forum members mostly here.

DE: Julius Peppers
DE: John Abraham

Defense is tough for me to choose because I'm more of an offensive guy, but this is a position I know I've got right. Julius Peppers had a great rebound year, a career year in sacks and a key part to his team's playoff run. Abraham lead all Defensive End's in sacks with 16.5 and is a one man wrecking crew on the D-Line.

DT: Maake Kemoeatu
DT: Jonathan Babineaux

Tough for me to choose here, I know Maake is a big boy and his huge for stopping to run to help Carolina. Babineaux is clutch and gets a ton of TFL and sacks.

WLB: Derrick Brooks
MLB: Barrett Rudd
SLB: Jon Beason (99% sure he mans the middle but I wanted to make some room for him and I know he played on the outside earlier in his career)

Brooks is more name recognition than anything else, if there is somebody else, let me know. I wanted to include Vilma in this list because he is a Miami boy and everything but he didn't play the same this year coming off of the injury. From what I've heard Rudd is a stud and from the little I've seen of him this looks true, so I've got him in the middle. Jon Beason is a freak and will be a top linebacker for years, he shut down Turner in the first game against ATL earlier this season, I'm not sure if he made the Pro Bowl, but if he didn't he deserved it.

CB: Chris Gamble
CB: Phil Buchanon
ALT: Ken Lucas

Gamble was spectacular this year for the Panthers, earning a nice contract extension and the respect of fans across the league. After that it was tough for me to choose, Buchanon has vastly improved from earlier in his career, and from what I understand had a solid season. Lucas struggled this year, but what he has done in his career can't be denied and I expect him to rebound.

FS: Charles Godfrey
SS: Tanard Jackson

Another tough decision to make, I know Jackson had performed last year and although he didn't quite live up to those standards, he still had a solid season. Godfrey looked like a ballhawk from what I've seen which is why I chose him.

K: John Kasay
P: Michael Koenen
KR: Jerious Norwood
PR: Reggie Bush
ALT: Clifton Smith

Kasay had a great year and was a legit choice for the pro bowl. Koenen because the Falcons were just a couple yards shy of eclipsing the Bills' record in the '90s of yards allowed by a punt returner. Norwood has been his usual consistent self as a returner, and showed up with a big return just recently. Bush was unstoppable pre-injury as a PR, and Smith lead the league at one point when it came to Yards per Return.

Special Mention: Rhys Lloyd
The god of the Kickoff

Total players by each team:

Carolina Panthers - 11
Atlanta Falcons - 9
Tampa Bay Bucs - 8
New Orleans Saints - 6

Chucky
12-30-2008, 03:47 PM
Well, in regards to the bucs picks.

Clifton Smith should definately be the KR/PR who was the NFC's representitave to the pro bowl and was amazing all year.

Tanard Jackson is a FS, and should be starting there. At SS you should have probably put Chris Harris or Flip(probably harris).

Buchanon has not been great but at least you did not put ronde

Our D-line sucked so no one there

Donald Penn should have definately made it over Brown.

Bryant was much better than colston this year, he was the only offensive threat on the bucs.


Side note: Deangelo>Turner


Good write up though

etk
12-30-2008, 04:07 PM
Chucky got it right pretty much. I think Tanard should be FS and Phillips should be SS. He was great when he was healthy and losing him really hurt our run D.

Clifton Smith should be the returner. He led the league, didn't he?

Phillip Buchanon is awful. Find someone else please. No, not Ronde either.

Donald Penn was the best lineman on our team. Gaines beat Jammal Brown at least a couple times when we played them, and I don't Gaines finished with more than like 7 sacks this year. Penn has been a rock all year in the pass game. Faine and Joseph are solid but Penn has been a standout pass protector.

It's hard to argue with Smith and White, but Bryant is ridiculously good. His production and impact in our gimpy offense with mediocre QB play cannot be understated. If Garcia could throw a deep ball he'd be all over the highlight reels with TD bombs, aside from his insanely difficult catches in traffic/1 handed grabs. White is good and productive, but I'd argue that Bryant would be much more productive for Atlanta. He's better than White in every aspect. Colston is good but he benefits from Brees and that spread offense.

Also, Brooks had a good year but he's been hurt a lot which affected his play. He made the Pro Bowl on name recognition only.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2008, 04:17 PM
Chucky got it right pretty much. I think Tanard should be FS and Phillips should be SS. He was great when he was healthy and losing him really hurt our run D.

Clifton Smith should be the returner. He led the league, didn't he?

Phillip Buchanon is awful. Find someone else please. No, not Ronde either.

Donald Penn was the best lineman on our team. Gaines beat Jammal Brown at least a couple times when we played them, and I don't Gaines finished with more than like 7 sacks this year. Penn has been a rock all year in the pass game. Faine and Joseph are solid but Penn has been a standout pass protector.

It's hard to argue with Smith and White, but Bryant is ridiculously good. His production and impact in our gimpy offense with mediocre QB play cannot be understated. If Garcia could throw a deep ball he'd be all over the highlight reels with TD bombs, aside from his insanely difficult catches in traffic/1 handed grabs. White is good and productive, but I'd argue that Bryant would be much more productive for Atlanta. He's better than White in every aspect. Colston is good but he benefits from Brees and that spread offense.

Also, Brooks had a good year but he's been hurt a lot which affected his play. He made the Pro Bowl on name recognition only.

Riiiiight. Oh, the homer you are.

The only thing Bryant has over White is his hands. White is stronger, more athletic, gets open more, and is more productive.

Chucky
12-30-2008, 04:18 PM
Riiiiight. Oh, the homer you are.

The only thing Bryant has over White is his hands. White is stronger, more athletic, gets open more, and is more productive.

White gets open more than Bryant? Really? Bryant consistently gets open, and if he had a QB who could deliver the ball deep then he would have had a much better year. You should know that, especially considering how many times he burned the falcons secondary in their last meeting.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2008, 04:21 PM
White gets open more than Bryant? Really? Bryant consistently gets open, and if he had a QB who could deliver the ball deep then he would have had a much better year. You should know that, especially considering how many times he burned the falcons secondary in their last meeting.

Yes, and it's not even close. For a guy who was second in the NFL receiving yards most of the year, White is open most of the time. He has average hands, but he gets open with the best of them.

Wow, he burnt our secondary, which is one of our biggest weaknesses, if not the biggest. Not that impressive.

Bruce Banner
12-30-2008, 04:22 PM
Bryant is the best route runner in the NFCS fwiw. (better than S. Smith)

and despite White's superior strength, Bryant plays much more physically.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2008, 04:23 PM
Maybe, doesn't mean he gets open more.

White was a below average route runner his first few years in the league and still got open. Now that he has that down and his hands have improved he is one of the best.

Chucky
12-30-2008, 04:23 PM
Yes, and it's not even close. For a guy who was second in the NFL receiving yards most of the year, White is open most of the time. He has average hands, but he gets open with the best of them.

Wow, he burnt our secondary, which is one of our biggest weaknesses, if not the biggest. Not that impressive.

White has other recieving options on the team. Bryant gets open despite being the only recieving threat on the team. Our second best is Michael Clayton? Alex Smith? Stovall? take you pick they all suck

etk
12-30-2008, 04:23 PM
Riiiiight. Oh, the homer you are.

The only thing Bryant has over White is his hands. White is stronger, more athletic, gets open more, and is more productive.

Bryant has better hands, better concentration in traffic, better ball skills, better YAC ability, gets more separation, runs better routes, and is quicker.

White might be a bit faster and more explosive.

Bryant is more productive. He has 5 less catches and the same amount of TDs, but he wasn't even a starter/main target early in the season. He had 3 catches in the 1st 2 games. White has been in the system for 3 years, Bryant was a street FA.

I'm not a homer. I understand you're ignorant because you've hardly seen Bryant play, but the guy is not a fluke. He's one of the best WRs in the league and better than White, although White is still a great WR.

etk
12-30-2008, 04:24 PM
Bryant is the best route runner in the NFCS fwiw. (better than S. Smith)

and despite White's superior strength, Bryant plays much more physically.

This is true.

Bruce Banner
12-30-2008, 04:27 PM
Bryant has better hands, better concentration in traffic, better ball skills, better YAC ability, gets more separation, runs better routes, and is quicker.

White might be a bit faster and more explosive.

Bryant is more productive. He has 5 less catches and the same amount of TDs, but he wasn't even a starter/main target early in the season. He had 3 catches in the 1st 2 games. White has been in the system for 3 years, Bryant was a street FA.

I'm not a homer. I understand you're ignorant because you've hardly seen Bryant play, but the guy is not a fluke. He's one of the best WRs in the league and better than White, although White is still a great WR.

Crazy stuff.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-30-2008, 04:29 PM
Maybe, doesn't mean he gets open more.

White was a below average route runner his first few years in the league and still got open. Now that he has that down and his hands have improved he is one of the best.

Bryant is open probably 1/3 of the time; a homer is you.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2008, 04:29 PM
Bryant has better hands, better concentration in traffic, better ball skills, better YAC ability, gets more separation, runs better routes, and is quicker.

White might be a bit faster and more explosive.

Bryant is more productive. He has 5 less catches and the same amount of TDs, but he wasn't even a starter/main target early in the season. He had 3 catches in the 1st 2 games. White has been in the system for 3 years, Bryant was a street FA.

I'm not a homer. I understand you're ignorant because you've hardly seen Bryant play, but the guy is not a fluke. He's one of the best WRs in the league and better than White, although White is still a great WR.

More seperation is laughable. The yards after the catch is iffy, I can't comment because I haven't seen AB after the catch much. But White is one of the most physical in the league and has speed.

Which reminds me that White is one of the best blocking elite wide receivers in the league.

Big deal. White was about to get cut after his second season in the league, and produced to be the eighth best receiver in 2007 receiving yards wise with Joey Harrington, Byron Leftwich, and Chris Redman at quarterback.

He has been in the system for years?

Newsflash: We have had four offensive systems in three years.

And the Bucs passed the ball over 100 times more than the Falcons this year, so White didn't have as many opportunities.

Draft King
12-30-2008, 04:31 PM
Way to turn my beautiful post and hard work into a White vs. Bryant thread guys. :(

BTW I did include Clifton Smith, and you're probably right, if I was to make this list again I would place him over Norwood as the KR. Although, I still think I would take Bush's dynamic ability as a PR over Smith's. Bush took over that Vikings game just as a PR.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2008, 04:32 PM
White has other recieving options on the team. Bryant gets open despite being the only recieving threat on the team. Our second best is Michael Clayton? Alex Smith? Stovall? take you pick they all suck

Other options?

Jenkins is average at best.

We have no tight end. Alex Smith would be the uncontested starter for us.

Harry Douglas had less than 30 receptions this year.

Our third receiving option is our backup runningback. Obviously we don't have many options.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2008, 04:33 PM
Bryant is the best route runner in the NFCS fwiw. (better than S. Smith)

and despite White's superior strength, Bryant plays much more physically.

White is one of the best blockers at receiver in the league. He also never runs out of bounds.

What you said is false.

etk
12-30-2008, 04:33 PM
Bryant plays on a short passing offense with 2 noodle armed QBs. We have no other targets other than dumpoffs to the RBs. Our #2 WR is Michael Clayton and he's slow and can't catch. We had no running game after Graham got injured. Teams knew Bryant was the only guy they had to stop on our offense. They double and triple teamed him and he still got 83 catches at 15 yards a clip. Not to mention all the times he's wide open down the seam and Garcia misses or just scrambles around instead of throwing it.

White is great, but he benefits from a great ground game, a better QB and better overall talent, plus a more downfield passing offense.

Once again BamaFalcon, you're alone arguing against numerous other people who agree on the same thing. Your stubbornness never ceases to amaze me. Watch a few games and tell me Bryant is not ridiculously talented. Don't comment on things you don't know about.

Chucky
12-30-2008, 04:34 PM
Other options?

Jenkins is average at best.

We have no tight end. Alex Smith would be the uncontested starter for us.

Harry Douglas had less than 30 receptions this year.

Our third receiving option is our backup runningback. Obviously we don't have many options.

Jenkins is better than anything we have. Not to mention you guys have a running game to keep the defences honest. At one point we had Warrick Dunn getting all the carries( who is nothing more than a complimentary back at this point)

Chucky
12-30-2008, 04:35 PM
White is one of the best blockers at receiver in the league. He also never runs out of bounds.

What you said is false.

White is not one of the best blockers in the league at WR. Clayton is double the blocker White will ever be.

Draft King
12-30-2008, 04:35 PM
To be fair etk, he is arguing with all Tampa Bay fans. If there were all ATL fans here and just way, it would be the other way around. Wait until we get some Saints and Panthers fans in here.

Chucky
12-30-2008, 04:36 PM
To be fair etk, he is arguing with all Tampa Bay fans. If there were all ATL fans here and just way, it would be the other way around. Wait until we get some Saints and Panthers fans in here.

None of us are saying that Bryant is better than Steve Smith, and i believe most would agree that Bryant had a much better year Colston, so i dont see the big deal.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2008, 04:36 PM
Did you really just say noone agrees with me?

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews32/a%20lol/ttile%20lol.jpg

Thus far six people have commented on the arguement. The 'numerous' people are four Bucs fans. I have White, as does DK, a Falcons fan, who had him over Bryant on his all NFC South team.

But yeah, no Bucs fan agrees with me. Surprise.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2008, 04:39 PM
White is not one of the best blockers in the league at WR. Clayton is double the blocker White will ever be.

Lol ok.

We had the second ranked running game in the league. We ran power more than any other run play, and often times Turner bounced it outside. White usually is the reason Turner gets additional yards, because he manhandles the cornerback so badly and seals him inside.

Several of Turner's touchdowns this year had to due with White's blocking.

Bruce Banner
12-30-2008, 04:39 PM
But White is one of the most physical in the league and has speed.


As is Bryant.


Which reminds me that White is one of the best blocking elite wide receivers in the league.


No other receiver has to block when you have this beast.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0a9z3RB12q9Nq/340x.jpg

Kidding aside, Bryant is no slouch in the blocking game.

I'll just wait for some objective posters to step forward. Though I expect them to side with White considering the amount of **** sucking he has received all year long from ATL fans on the board compared to the occasional mention of Bryant from Bucs fans.

Chucky
12-30-2008, 04:41 PM
Several of Turner's touchdowns this year had to due with White's blocking.

I hope your kidding. You are being absurd.

Draft King
12-30-2008, 04:41 PM
None of us are saying that Bryant is better than Steve Smith, and i believe most would agree that Bryant had a much better year Colston, so i dont see the big deal.

What I meant was that all ATL fans will side with White, and all Bucs will side with Bryant, and that the Saints and Panthers fans wouldn't favorite between the two. I'm not bringing Smith and Colston into the discussion.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2008, 04:44 PM
I hope your kidding. You are being absurd.

No, I'm not. The ones from outside of the ten yards line often were on power runs that Turner bounced.

Chucky
12-30-2008, 04:46 PM
No, I'm not. The ones from outside of the ten yards line often were on power runs that Turner bounced.

Im surprised your not saying that Roddy white was able to will him into the endzone on those many short yardage TD's he had.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2008, 04:47 PM
Im surprised your not saying that Roddy white was able to will him into the endzone on those many short yardage TD's he had.

I'm not sure what is so outstanding about what I am saying.

Good blocking receivers often spring big runs by sealing the corner off.

Chucky
12-30-2008, 04:48 PM
I'm not sure what is so outstanding about what I am saying.

Good blocking receivers often spring big runs by sealing the corner off.

I think more of it has to do with Turner being a great RB, and having a very good blocking FB. To give tons of credit to Roddy is just ignorant.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2008, 04:50 PM
I think more of it has to do with Turner being a great RB, and having a very good blocking FB. To give tons of credit to Roddy is just ignorant.

I didn't discredit any of them.

But that cornerback on the outside must be blocked to let that runningback run free. Both Jenkins and White block very well.

d34ng3l021
12-31-2008, 12:55 AM
Are Bucs fans seriously arguing that Antonio Bryant is better than Roddy White? Yeah he had a good 2nd half of the season, but lets wait to crown him, yeah? In 7 seasons, he has had 2 1000 yard seasons (1 of which was 1009). Roddy White piled up 1200 yards last year with Byron Leftwich, Chris Redman, and Joey Harrington at QB. He followed that up (showing how the previous season was no fluke) by being 3rd in the NFC in yards this year, and now Antonio Bryant is better than him?

Only TB fans....

scar988
12-31-2008, 01:14 AM
I hope your kidding. You are being absurd.

no he's not. on 3-4 touchdowns that Turner has gotten they were outside runs where White made the crucial seal block on the CB to where Turner got in untouched. say what you will, but White is a damn good blocking WR.

Also, White is far and away better than Bryant. that's not even a real question is it?


ok. my All NFCS team:
QB - Drew Brees - Saints
RB - Michael Turner - Falcons
FB - Ovie Mughelli - Falcons
WR - Roddy White - Falcons
WR - Steve Smith - Panthers
TE - Jeff King - Panthers
LT - Jamal Brown - Saints
LG - Justin Blalock - Falcons
C - Jeff Faine - Bucs
RG - Davin Joseph - Bucs
RT - Tyson Clabo - Falcons

LE - Julius Peppers - Panthers
NT - Chris Hovan - Bucs
UT - Jonathan Babineaux - Falcons
RE - John Abraham - Falcons
LB - Derrick Brooks - Bucs
LB - John Vilma - Saints
LB - Cato June - Bucs
CB - Chris Gamble - Panthers
CB - Ken Lucas - Panthers
S - Tanard Jackson - Bucs
S - Erik Coleman - Falcons

scar988
12-31-2008, 01:16 AM
White has other recieving options on the team. Bryant gets open despite being the only recieving threat on the team. Our second best is Michael Clayton? Alex Smith? Stovall? take you pick they all suck

did you not watch Roddy last year when he was our only option receiving? the fact that Jenkins, Douglas and Norwood took a lot of pressure off of him this year is more due to them emerging because of him than the opposite. never once was Bryan double teamed from what I saw.

Chucky
12-31-2008, 01:17 AM
Jon Vilma is the 3rd best MLB in the division. Ruud and Beason are much better than him. I can understand putting Beason over Ruud(or vice versa), but putting Vilma over both is just dumb. Also not sure Cato should be on there, he is nothing special. And once again Donald Penn>Jamaal Brown.

Chucky
12-31-2008, 01:19 AM
did you not watch Roddy last year when he was our only option receiving? the fact that Jenkins, Douglas and Norwood took a lot of pressure off of him this year is more due to them emerging because of him than the opposite. never once was Bryan double teamed from what I saw.

Then you did not see anything. Bryant was constantly being double teamed, as well as constantly having a safety over top. Also we are not talking about last year, antonio bryant was out of football last year, that is obviously an irrelevent argument. The Bucs fans who are saying Bryant is better are not taking character concerns into account(obviously)

d34ng3l021
12-31-2008, 01:37 AM
Then you did not see anything. Bryant was constantly being double teamed, as well as constantly having a safety over top. Also we are not talking about last year, antonio bryant was out of football last year, that is obviously an irrelevent argument. The Bucs fans who are saying Bryant is better are not taking character concerns into account(obviously)

So does that mean he was being triple teamed? Pretty impressive from a guy who was out of football last year.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2008, 03:07 AM
I seriously doubt Antonio Bryant was being triple teamed.

That is reserved for two-three receivers in the league.

Bruce Banner
12-31-2008, 03:21 AM
I seriously doubt Antonio Bryant was being triple teamed.

That is reserved for two-three receivers in the league.

True story.

When you are the only WR threat sometimes it will happen, but in this case, he's the only threat on offense, so it happened pretty often.

Caddy
12-31-2008, 03:42 AM
Physically speaking I think Bryant has the advantage, but taking everything into account I'd definitely lean towards Roddy White.

If Bryant continues his 2nd half form next season then this conversation would become more interesting.

d34ng3l021
12-31-2008, 05:04 AM
True story.

When you are the only WR threat sometimes it will happen, but in this case, he's the only threat on offense, so it happened pretty often.

So you are saying that instead of using the lack of threats on the opposing offense for their own benefits by allowing for crazy schemes for the free players, the DCs stack on coverage to Antonio 'All-Pro' Bryant?

I won't believe it until I see it.

etk
12-31-2008, 01:34 PM
Are Bucs fans seriously arguing that Antonio Bryant is better than Roddy White? Yeah he had a good 2nd half of the season, but lets wait to crown him, yeah? In 7 seasons, he has had 2 1000 yard seasons (1 of which was 1009). Roddy White piled up 1200 yards last year with Byron Leftwich, Chris Redman, and Joey Harrington at QB. He followed that up (showing how the previous season was no fluke) by being 3rd in the NFC in yards this year, and now Antonio Bryant is better than him?

Only TB fans....

White has a more accomplished career, but we're arguing about who has the better package as a receiver.

Only TB fans would say Bryant is a better receiver because only TB fans know enough about Bryant and his environment to see that he's extremely underrated. If you're calling Bryant a fluke, just wait til next year. He's already proven that he doesn't need an effective offense to make his mark.

no he's not. on 3-4 touchdowns that Turner has gotten they were outside runs where White made the crucial seal block on the CB to where Turner got in untouched. say what you will, but White is a damn good blocking WR.

Also, White is far and away better than Bryant. that's not even a real question is it?


ok. my All NFCS team:
QB - Drew Brees - Saints
RB - Michael Turner - Falcons
FB - Ovie Mughelli - Falcons
WR - Roddy White - Falcons
WR - Steve Smith - Panthers
TE - Jeff King - Panthers
LT - Jamal Brown - Saints
LG - Justin Blalock - Falcons
C - Jeff Faine - Bucs
RG - Davin Joseph - Bucs
RT - Tyson Clabo - Falcons

LE - Julius Peppers - Panthers
NT - Chris Hovan - Bucs
UT - Jonathan Babineaux - Falcons
RE - John Abraham - Falcons
LB - Derrick Brooks - Bucs
LB - John Vilma - Saints
LB - Cato June - Bucs
CB - Chris Gamble - Panthers
CB - Ken Lucas - Panthers
S - Tanard Jackson - Bucs
S - Erik Coleman - Falcons

Real nice argument. He's far and away better, no question. Do you come from the Skip Bayless school of arguing?

I might actually listen to your comment, but your reputation precedes you on this site (negative) and your All-NFCS team is horribly incorrect. Just another ignorant homer comment from you with no support to your arguments.

Chris Hovan and Cato June are 2 of the worst at their positions in the NFCS. The 2 BEST LBs....Ruud and Beason, aren't even on your list. Gamble and Lucas are garbage while Coleman got burned routinely. Clabo and Blalock....LOL!

Congratulations for presenting me with one of the worst posts I've seen in months. Go back to that other site where people might actually respect your opinion, because they don't know any better.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2008, 01:41 PM
White has a more accomplished career, but we're arguing about who has the better package as a receiver.

Only TB fans would say Bryant is a better receiver because only TB fans know enough about Bryant and his environment to see that he's extremely underrated. If you're calling Bryant a fluke, just wait til next year. He's already proven that he doesn't need an effective offense to make his mark.



Real nice argument. He's far and away better, no question. Do you come from the Skip Bayless school of arguing?

I might actually listen to your comment, but your reputation precedes you on this site (negative) and your All-NFCS team is horribly incorrect. Just another ignorant homer comment from you with no support to your arguments.

Chris Hovan and Cato June are 2 of the worst at their positions in the NFCS. The 2 BEST LBs....Ruud and Beason, aren't even on your list. Gamble and Lucas are garbage while Coleman got burned routinely. Clabo and Blalock....LOL!

Congratulations for presenting me with one of the worst posts I've seen in months. Go back to that other site where people might actually respect your opinion, because they don't know any better.

Yes, our offensive line was so bad this year that it allowed 17 sacks and lead the second ranked rushing attack in the league.

It could use some improvement, but saying 'LOL!' only shows your ignorance.

d34ng3l021
12-31-2008, 01:45 PM
White has a more accomplished career, but we're arguing about who has the better package as a receiver.

Only TB fans would say Bryant is a better receiver because only TB fans know enough about Bryant and his environment to see that he's extremely underrated. If you're calling Bryant a fluke, just wait til next year. He's already proven that he doesn't need an effective offense to make his mark.


For me, consistency is included in the package. I prefer a guy who has shown year in year out that he is good, not just for a span of 8 games.

I will give you that he is underrated. He did a great job these past couple of weeks, and I want to see what he follows it up with. But to say that he is better than a more established receiver in White? I wouldn't go that far.

etk
12-31-2008, 01:46 PM
Your offensive line is outstanding as a unit. As individuals, I'd favor Gross over Clabo and Sears/Evans over Blalock. I said LOL because I totally did not expect someone to say those names. Clabo and Blalock are good linemen, but not on the level of Jordan Gross. Sears has outclassed Blalock for 2 years, and Evans is arguably better too.

etk
12-31-2008, 01:47 PM
For me, consistency is included in the package. I prefer a guy who has shown year in year out that he is good, not just for a span of 8 games.

I will give you that he is underrated. He did a great job these past couple of weeks, and I want to see what he follows it up with. But to say that he is better than a more established receiver in White? I wouldn't go that far.

That's perfectly fair if you're holding out judgment for another season. I'll give you that chance and say "let's wait another year", because I'm extremely confident that Bryant will continue his improvement.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2008, 01:47 PM
I would agree Gross is better than Clabo.

But I think Blalock is better than Sears.

etk
12-31-2008, 01:51 PM
Last year Sears was rock solid in the run game, both straight up and on pulls. He made a couple mental mistakes, but that's all. At the same time, I remember us beating Blalock a couple times.

This year, I'd say even because I haven't noticed either (good thing).

Hence why I give Sears the advantage, but it's close. Sears would be more of a standout if he wasn't sandwiched between 2 mediocre and undersized run blockers (Penn and Faine).

d34ng3l021
12-31-2008, 01:57 PM
Sorry for the double post. I didn't feel like editing my last one.

All-NFC South Team.

QB Drew Brees
RB DeAngelo Williams (sorry Turner)
FB Ovie Mughelli
WR Steve Smith
WR Roddy White
TE Alex Smith
LT Jordan Gross
LG Justin Blalock
C Jeff Faine
RG Davin Joseph
RT Jeff Otah

DE John Abraham
DE Julius Peppers
DT Jonathan Babineaux
DT Jovan Haye (i dont know how he was this year. this is mostly off of last year I guess)
OLB Derrick Brooks
MLB Jon Beason
OLB Thomas Davis
CB Chris Gamble
CB Ronde Barber (jk. its Ken Lucas i guess)
SS Chris Harris
FS Tanard Jackson

d34ng3l021
12-31-2008, 01:59 PM
That's perfectly fair if you're holding out judgment for another season. I'll give you that chance and say "let's wait another year", because I'm extremely confident that Bryant will continue his improvement.

Thanks for giving me that chance ;)

etk
12-31-2008, 01:59 PM
Haye was below-average this year. Babineaux looked much better from what I saw.

d34ng3l021
12-31-2008, 02:01 PM
Haye was below-average this year. Babineaux looked much better from what I saw.

Babs was easily the best DT in the NFC South this season. He was one of the better ones in the NFL too, but his breakout season was very quiet. I hope we can get a big body next to him.

I didn't know who to put for the 2nd DT. Not too many outstanding candidates. I thought about Sedrick Ellis...

etk
12-31-2008, 02:06 PM
Oh my bad I didn't look at the other DT so I thought you left him off the list. I was shocked....

Ellis is right in Haye territory. IDK.....

d34ng3l021
12-31-2008, 02:40 PM
Yeah. The NFC S doesn't look too good at the DT position anymore (Coleman, Jenkins, Sapp :()

Bruce Banner
12-31-2008, 02:45 PM
What the hell?

Falcons fans are trying to use "consistency" from White over Bryant?

http://www.nfl.com/players/roddywhite/careerstats?id=WHI472686

Two good years make you consistent?

Maybe we are all overrating our players.

d34ng3l021
12-31-2008, 02:49 PM
2 out of 4 seasons...He didn't come in and dominate right away, but there are only a few receivers who do that (Moss, Boldin, Fitzgerald).

Since the magical 3rd year breakout season, he has not disappointed.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2008, 07:58 PM
QB- Drew Brees, Saints...Easy choice. Matt Ryan is very good and will get to the point where he is at or above Brees' level, but Brees is amazing right now.
RB- Michael Turner, Falcons...DeAngelo Williams is very good, but Michael Turner carried the Falcons and has something that Williams does not- the ability to tote the rock 30 times a game, every game.
FB- Ovie Mughelli, Falcons...Pure run blocker who punishes defenders.
WR- Steve Smith, Panthers...Pound for pound the best receiver in the league. If he was 6'0" or taller he would be the best. Period.
WR- Roddy White, Falcons...Very productive in a run oriented offense. Great, maybe amazing, talent.
TE- Jeremy Shockey, Saints...Not extremely productive, but had twice the receptions of any other NFC South tight end, despite missing four games.
LT- Donald Penn, Bucs...A better fit on the left side than the right due to his pass protection skills. John Abraham makes him look silly, but he does that to everyone.
LG- Justin Blalock, Falcons...Mauler at the guard position who can also get to the second level of the defense.
C- Jeff Faine, Bucs...Not many other options. Faine is a high quality, although not elite, center.
RG- Davin Joseph, Bucs...It was either him or Aaron Sears. Went with Joseph due to already playing the position.
RT- Jordan Gross,Panthers...Had to get him on the line somewhere. Better on the right side than Penn due to Penn's struggles in the running game.

LE- Julius Peppers, Panthers...Great athlete with size. More suited for the left side than Abraham due to his size and that he played the position for the majority for his pro career.
NT- Grady Jackson, Falcons...Not many other options, but Grady still clogs the run and gets a lot of penetration in the run and pass game.
UT- John Babineaux, Falcons...Great penetrator from the three technique position. Great pursuit, burst, and explosion.
RE- John Abraham, Falcons...The best pure pass rusher in the league when healthy.
SLB- John Beason, Panthers...Natural middle linebacker, but his speed makes him more fit for the strong side than Ruud.
MLB- Barrett Ruud, Bucs...Tackle machine at middle linebacker.
WLB- Thomas Davis, Panthers...Speed on the weakside. I like it.
CB- Chris Gamble, Panthers...Good play was rewarded with a huge contract.
CB- Ken Lucas, Panthers...Not many other options.
SS- Lawyer Milloy, Falcons...Despite his age, he still gets the job done. Lots of range for an older player, and is a force against the run. Contemplated putting Erik Coleman here.
FS- Tanard Jackson, Bucs...Slightly ahead of Erik Coleman, who was excellent this season.

P- Michael Koenan, Falcons...Least punt return yardage allowed in a regular season in National Football League history.
K- Jason Elam, Falcons...Was 29 of 31 kicking on the year with a long of 50. John Kasey was 28 of 31 kicking on the year with a long of 50. Advantage Elam.

KR- Clifton Smith, Bucs...Tons of production. Great vision. Right ahead of Jerious Norwood.
PR- Reggie Bush, Saints...I selected him over Clifton Smith due to Smith lacking break away speed, something Bush has no problem with.

Most offensive players on my All NFC South team-
1. Atlanta Falcons (4)...I'd say this is accurate. Best offense in the NFC South.
2. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (3)...Not very accurate. The offensive line gives them a boost.
t-3. Carolina Panthers (2)...Accurate. The third best offense in the south.
t-3. New Orleans Saints (2)...Not accurate at all. Arguably the best offense in the league, not just the National Football Conference. But they turn the ball over and lack a running game. I would say they are number two.

Most Defensive Players on my All NFC South Team-
1. Carolina Panthers (5)...Accurate. They finished strong and the Bucs did not, so I would give them the edge there.
2. Atlanta Falcons (4)...Should be number three. The strong defensive line puts them here.
3. Tampa Bay (2)...Should be number two. Solid team defense, not individual defense.
4. New Orleans Saints (0)...Yeah. Accurate.

Most Special Teams Players on my All NFC South Team-
1. Atlanta Falcons (2)...Accurate. Amazing punt unit that allowed less than 50 return yards on the season, great kicker in Jason Elam, great kick returner in Jerious Norwood. Harry Douglas improved our punt return unit significantly. Slacking kickoff team.
t-2. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1)...Should probably be the clear cut number two. Great kick and punt return man in Clifton Smith, although he lacks break away speed.
t-2. New Orleans Saints (1)...Reggie Bush got the job done, but he is hurt too often.
4. Carolina Panthers (0)...Good kicking game, lackluster return men.

Most Players on my All NFC South Team-
1. Atlanta Falcons (10)...Eh. With special teams included this is probably accurate.
2. Carolina Panthers (7)...Probably accurate due to their lack of special teams prowess.
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (6)...Yeah, third in the conference, third in this ranking.
4. New Orleans Saints (3)...Fourth in conference, fourth in this ranking.

Most non-special teams players on my All NFC South team-
1. Atlanta Falcons (8)...Should probably be tied with Carolina.
2. Carolina Panthers (7)...Should be tied for first. Maybe first clear cut, but I think they have less glaring weaknesses and the Falcons have more standout players.
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (5)...Correct, although their offensive line inflated their offensive prowess a bit.
4. New Orleans Saints (2)...Correct, although their offense is great just due to Drew Brees.

Just my opinion.

etk
01-01-2009, 08:16 AM
That's probably the best unit I've seen in this thread. Only glaring mishap is Milloy over Phillips.

Chucky
01-01-2009, 07:41 PM
That's probably the best unit I've seen in this thread. Only glaring mishap is Milloy over Phillips.

I would also probably put Sears over Blalock. But good list. Job well done

d34ng3l021
01-01-2009, 07:50 PM
I would also probably put Sears over Blalock. But good list. Job well done

I like Blalock in this one. He has had 8 penalties (5 false starts, 3 holding) but has let up 3 sacks. He has played a huge role in Turner averaging 4.9 yards a carry to the left sideline and 5.6 yards a carry to the left side. Sears has had 6 penalties and let up 4.5 sacks.

Caddy
01-02-2009, 04:28 AM
I like Blalock in this one. He has had 8 penalties (5 false starts, 3 holding) but has let up 3 sacks. He has played a huge role in Turner averaging 4.9 yards a carry to the left sideline and 5.6 yards a carry to the left side. Sears has had 6 penalties and let up 4.5 sacks.

Why even bother trying to convince Buc fans that Blalock is better than Sears. You have no chance of swaying our opinions just as we have little chance of swaying yours.

d34ng3l021
01-02-2009, 04:02 PM
Yeah. Its close, but I am just putting my preference out there.

etk
01-02-2009, 05:39 PM
I like Blalock in this one. He has had 8 penalties (5 false starts, 3 holding) but has let up 3 sacks. He has played a huge role in Turner averaging 4.9 yards a carry to the left sideline and 5.6 yards a carry to the left side. Sears has had 6 penalties and let up 4.5 sacks.

4.5 sacks? I don't remember one of them....I wish they kept film of each one...

ATLDirtyBirds
01-03-2009, 02:58 PM
Antonio over Roddy? You guys kill me.

Bruce Banner
01-03-2009, 03:01 PM
Antonio over Roddy? You guys kill me.

Just make sure you don't drop the f-bomb. The other f-bomb.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-03-2009, 03:04 PM
Just make sure you don't drop the f-bomb. The other f-bomb.

Would it involve some kind of indigestion or burping of some kind as well?

Bruce Banner
01-03-2009, 03:07 PM
Would it involve some kind of indigestion or burping of some kind as well?

Perhaps.

Just seems that more straight people are concerned with *** sex than **** themselves.

ironic.

JustJoe2k5
01-04-2009, 09:43 AM
RB- Michael Turner, Falcons...DeAngelo Williams is very good, but Michael Turner carried the Falcons and has something that Williams does not- the ability to tote the rock 30 times a game, every game.

While I don't want to set off another "Bryant vs. White" battle, I will note that Williams certainly could have handled that type of workload if necessary. It just wasn't necessary with a player like Stewart behind him on the depth chart.

It should also be noted that Turner only had 30+ carries on three occassions. Outside of those games, his attempts were right around Williams' range.

Williams averaged one more yard-per-carry than Turner, Williams scored one more touchdown than Turner, Turner had two lost fumbles on the season while Williams had zero, and Turner had zero receiving touchdowns on the season while Williams had two.

StaticGator
01-13-2009, 09:25 AM
QB: Drew Brees
RB: Michael Turner
FB: Ovie Mughelli
WR: Roddy White
WR: Steve Smith
TE: none worth mentioning
LT: Jammal Brown
LG: Justin Blalock
C: Jeff Faine
RG: Jahri Evans
RT: Jeff Otah

DE: John Abraham
DT: Jonathan Babineaux
NT: Maake Kemoeatu
DE: Julius Peppers
SLB: Jon Beason
MLB: Barrett Ruud
WLB: Thomas Davis
SS: Jermaine Phillips
FS: Tanard Jackson
CB: Chris Gamble
CB: Chris Houston

BamaFalcon59
01-13-2009, 04:59 PM
While I don't want to set off another "Bryant vs. White" battle, I will note that Williams certainly could have handled that type of workload if necessary. It just wasn't necessary with a player like Stewart behind him on the depth chart.

It should also be noted that Turner only had 30+ carries on three occassions. Outside of those games, his attempts were right around Williams' range.

Williams averaged one more yard-per-carry than Turner, Williams scored one more touchdown than Turner, Turner had two lost fumbles on the season while Williams had zero, and Turner had zero receiving touchdowns on the season while Williams had two.

This is all I have to say about this.

Williams could not handle 373 carries.

And people obviously agree with me because Turner was an easy pick for the AP All Pro team.

etk
01-13-2009, 09:40 PM
Williams is like a 10x better RB than Turner, but I'd take Turner on my team every time. Williams is inconsistent, while Turner will always give your team a fighting chance.

In 2 years, gimme Stewart over both.

wicket
01-17-2009, 07:24 AM
QB: Drew Brees
RB: Michael Turner
FB: Ovie Mughelli
WR: Roddy White
WR: Steve Smith
TE: none worth mentioning
LT: Jammal Brown
LG: Justin Blalock
C: Jeff Faine
RG: Jahri Evans
RT: Jeff Otah

DE: John Abraham
DT: Jonathan Babineaux
NT: Maake Kemoeatu
DE: Julius Peppers
SLB: Jon Beason
MLB: Barrett Ruud
WLB: Thomas Davis
SS: Jermaine Phillips
FS: Tanard Jackson
CB: Chris Gamble
CB: Chris Houston

Since Jahri Evans imo should be in the pro bowl im really happy finally seeing someone put him in the all nfc south team. Even as a saints fan i'd take gross over brown. I do however think that both vilma and ellis should have a shot at the team, perhaps karney as well if he where fit durng some period in the season.

StaticGator
01-20-2009, 01:08 PM
Since Jahri Evans imo should be in the pro bowl im really happy finally seeing someone put him in the all nfc south team. Even as a saints fan i'd take gross over brown. I do however think that both vilma and ellis should have a shot at the team, perhaps karney as well if he where fit durng some period in the season.

While Gross may or may not have had a better season than Brown, my concern is that Gross has flipped between left and right tackle every year he's been in the league, where Brown has been steady at left tackle and only left tackle for some time now.

d34ng3l021
01-20-2009, 06:49 PM
Jamaal Brown sucks now. Gross was one of the better LTs this season.

And Vilma gets in over which top 5 MLB? Ruud or Beason?

SchizophrenicBatman
02-01-2009, 03:09 AM
Williams is like a 10x better RB than Turner, but I'd take Turner on my team every time. Williams is inconsistent, while Turner will always give your team a fighting chance.

In 2 years, gimme Stewart over both.

Weeks 2, 4, 6 and the playoff game disagree

Not going to get in a pissing match there, though. I'd put DeAngelo and Turner on the same pedestal right now. Different styles (and Turner's is preferable I agree), but I think they come out equally valuable in the end. Now, which one is going to hold up better next season is another debate...

other Panther notes: First off, no one cares who the #2 WR behind Stevonne is so just flip a coin because it doesn't matter :D

I'm not going to contest Mughelli at FB but Brad Hoover really stepped up this season as a legit run blocker. Really surprised the hell out of me since he's been more of an oversized RB playing FB his entire career, and in decline the past few seasons, then comes out stoning guys cold last year

Otah should be at RT. The difference in our run game when he was in and out was night and day.

And if Ken Lucas is in consideration for one of the CB slots let's just say Drew Brees and Matt Ryan's stats might be a little overinflated. Also makes you wonder how the hell Jake Delhomme is still hanging onto his job

diabsoule
05-15-2009, 12:22 AM
Well, guys, it sucks but the All-NFC South team played the All-NFC North team and were creamed. It was the most lopsided vote out of all the matchups.

One thing that I realized is that this division has really weak DT's.

d34ng3l021
05-15-2009, 04:10 AM
Well, guys, it sucks but the All-NFC South team played the All-NFC North team and were creamed. It was the most lopsided vote out of all the matchups.

One thing that I realized is that this division has really weak DT's.

A lot of other defensive positions too man. OLB is fairly lacking; our 4 best LBs (at least 3) LBs are all MLB. Our best CBs are Richard Marshall and Chris Gamble? Don't get me wrong, they are a great young duo for one team, but for a division? Same goes for safeties (but we have a pretty solid group.

Our offense is most likely the best among divisions though. Drew Brees (Matt Ryan in clutch situations) having the option to throw to Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Antonio Bryant, Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, Kellen Winslow, Jerious Norwood, Reggie Bush while the runningbacks consist of Michael Turner and DeAngelo Williams. That is so insane

irishbucsfan
05-15-2009, 05:20 AM
I know I missed the boat a little on the White vs Bryant debate, but from looking at it now I just had a couple thoughts.

Basically the issue is not production, but ability - Bucs fans are saying Bryant has more ability than White. And it's difficult to really answer that definitively, but what you can do is imagine how Bryant would do in White's place, and I look at it this way:

Arguments over who was triple or double teamed are hard to sort out, because unless both sides sit down with the same tape the information is lopsided - unless you watched as many snaps as the Bucs fans here, you can't just say 'Bryant wasn't double and triple teamed'. Bryant put up 6 100 yard games this year, including a 200 yard game @ Carolina - when there isn't another offensive threat, be it running or passing, anyone that brushes off the idea of double or even triple teaming that player isn't thinking. But like I said, it's hard to prove anything there. So we can rely on stats, which for all their other faults, are at least objective. If someone puts up X yards you cannot say they didn't.

People point to White's production in 2007 with a bad team and several journeyman quarterbacks. He had 83 catches for 1,202 yards @ 14.5 y/c and 6 TDs. Antonio Bryant, with several journeyman QBs this year (with significantly weaker arms - whatever you say about Harrington and Leftwich they can throw a deep ball better than Garcia and Griese. This is by default, since the latter two QBs are unable to do so at all) and without being the primary target until several weeks into the season, racked up 83 catches for 1,248 yards @ 15.0 y/c and 7 TDs. Better in each respect.

If you compare those stats to White's stats this year: 88 catches for 1,382 yards @ 15.7 y/c and 7 TDs. White put those up as the no.1 target right from the start, with the no.2 rushing attack in the NFL, and arguably the greatest rookie QB performance in history from a QB who can make all the throws, something Garcia and Griese could never claim. How did Bryant do? As etk said, 5 less catches, for the same number of TDs.

I'm trying to be objective here, and I find it difficult to think that Bryant would not have done better than White if he had been in White's shoes this year. Which is a pretty good measure of talent - 'in the same circumstances, who would do better'.

BamaFalcon59
05-15-2009, 07:08 AM
Lmao.

Ok.

This arguement is far too ridiculous to argue about.

Caddy
05-15-2009, 07:14 AM
Lmao.

Ok.

This arguement is far too ridiculous to argue about.

Why bother posting such a redundant comment? In what way is the argument ridiculous at all?

BamaFalcon59
05-15-2009, 07:18 AM
The only fans who believe Bryant is better than White are Bucs fans. The aruement is one sided until Bryant either proves he can produce for more than one year or at least stay on one team for an extended about of time.

Caddy
05-15-2009, 07:46 AM
The only fans who believe Bryant is better than White are Bucs fans. The aruement is one sided until Bryant either proves he can produce for more than one year or at least stay on one team for an extended about of time.

I have one question. If Bryant put up the same or similar statistics this season what would your opinion be?

irishbucsfan
05-15-2009, 07:47 AM
The only fans who believe Bryant is better than White are Bucs fans. The aruement is one sided until Bryant either proves he can produce for more than one year or at least stay on one team for an extended about of time.

Good job addressing how Bryant would not have put up better numbers in White's place this year.

BamaFalcon59
05-15-2009, 04:03 PM
And Michael Turner would have put up 2,000 yards with Minnesota's offensive line.

It's all hypothetical.

BamaFalcon59
05-15-2009, 04:03 PM
I have one question. If Bryant put up the same or similar statistics this season what would your opinion be?

Then it would be at least a decent arguement (unless Roddy continues his climb).

etk
05-15-2009, 05:41 PM
The only fans who believe Bryant is better than White are Bucs fans.

Of course. Bryant bounced around 3 teams and was out of football the year before he joined the Bucs. He wasn't starting early in the season either. He has no media recognition and thus people don't know about his talents and abilities, and the fact that he uses them well. You and I both know that the average fan doesn't have a clue about who's underrated and overrated in the league. Only the fans that actually see most of the action for themselves have a clue. I've seen enough of Roddy White to know that he's a great receiver, but Bryant is better (just slightly).

You keep mentioning that he has to prove himself over more than 1 season. He won the Biletnikoff award as a Sophomore. He's an extremely gifted player, and you know that his earlier struggles in the league were not related to his talent or ability. He's matured since then and there's no reason not to believe that he's one of the best receivers in the conference.


As for the divisional poll thread and debate...there's a reason why I rarely post in the NFL forum. I was just reminded.

diabsoule
05-17-2009, 12:17 PM
A lot of other defensive positions too man. OLB is fairly lacking; our 4 best LBs (at least 3) LBs are all MLB. Our best CBs are Richard Marshall and Chris Gamble? Don't get me wrong, they are a great young duo for one team, but for a division? Same goes for safeties (but we have a pretty solid group.

Our offense is most likely the best among divisions though. Drew Brees (Matt Ryan in clutch situations) having the option to throw to Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Antonio Bryant, Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, Kellen Winslow, Jerious Norwood, Reggie Bush while the runningbacks consist of Michael Turner and DeAngelo Williams. That is so insane

I agree. Our defense as a whole was lacking but our offense is insanely explosive.

However, in the current matchup I just don't see the NFC North beating the NFC East in an actual game, but then again, maybe it's just me.

Saints 4 Lyfe
09-21-2009, 10:44 AM
QB: Drew Brees
RB: Michael Turner
FB: Heath Evans
WR: Marques Colston
WR: Steve Smith
TE: Jeremy Shockey
TE: Tony Gonzales
LT: Jammal Brown
LG: Justin Blalock
C: Jeff Faine
RG: Jahri Evans
RT: Jeff Otah

DE: John Abraham
DT: Jonathan Babineaux
NT: Maake Kemoeatu
DE: Julius Peppers
SLB: Jon Beason
MLB: Jonathan Vilma
WLB: Thomas Davis
SS: Jermaine Phillips
FS: Darren Sharper
CB: Chris Gamble
CB: Chris Houstonhere's mine. i think when's it all said and done Jabari Greer will be on the CB list.

etk
09-22-2009, 03:47 PM
That's some serious Saints bias...impressive even from you.

Colston over Smith and White?
Shockey over Gonzalez?
Jammal Brown is overrated.
Jahri Evans over Davin Joseph?
Kemoeatu is injured...
Vilma over Ruud?
Phillips sucks...
TJax is better than Sharper.
Chris Houston is still shaky.

wicket
10-06-2009, 06:49 PM
Jahri Evans over Davin Joseph?


dont act like this is weird. This does not only make sense its the only right way to look at this.

d34ng3l021
10-07-2009, 12:59 AM
dont act like this is weird. This does not only make sense its the only right way to look at this.

That is the only one I disagree with on etk's list. Jahri Evans is very good.

wicket
10-07-2009, 02:50 AM
That is the only one I disagree with on etk's list. Jahri Evans is very good.

thats why i only commented on that one.
although I do get vilma over ruud i know it is not what most people think.

Caddy
10-07-2009, 04:59 AM
I'm siding with etk on this one. Davin Joseph is probably the best player Tampa Bay has and one of the best guards in the NFL.

wicket
10-07-2009, 04:35 PM
I'm siding with etk on this one. Davin Joseph is probably the best player Tampa Bay has and one of the best guards in the NFL.

but jahri is easily the best OLineman of the saints. they run behind him on something like 50% of the running games

Caddy
10-08-2009, 02:08 AM
but jahri is easily the best OLineman of the saints. they run behind him on something like 50% of the running games

That may be so but it doesn't change the fact that I still consider Davin to be the superior player. Both are great, I just think Joseph has the all-roundedness to give him the nod.

d34ng3l021
11-06-2009, 03:25 PM
That's perfectly fair if you're holding out judgment for another season. I'll give you that chance and say "let's wait another year", because I'm extremely confident that Bryant will continue his improvement.

So much for the whole Antonio Bryant is better than Roddy White argument, huh?

etk
11-06-2009, 09:57 PM
So much for the whole Antonio Bryant is better than Roddy White argument, huh?

It's sad that you still remember this and bring this up.

I'm not gonna argue this matter because I haven't watched a single Bucs game this year (and glad for it), but we ARE the only winless team in the league, our OC was fired before the season and our QB carousel has been a joke. Not to mention Bryant missed the whole preseason due to injury.

White wouldn't do jack given those circumstances either...

BamaFalcon59
11-06-2009, 10:09 PM
It's sad that you still remember this and bring this up.

I'm not gonna argue this matter because I haven't watched a single Bucs game this year (and glad for it), but we ARE the only winless team in the league, our OC was fired before the season and our QB carousel has been a joke. Not to mention Bryant missed the whole preseason due to injury.

White wouldn't do jack given those circumstances either...

Like when he put up 80+ receptions, 6 TD, 1,200 plus yards in 2007 when the Falcons were 4-12, mass drama in the preseason, new coach, coach leaves midseason, and a QB carousel.

Hmm.

etk
11-06-2009, 10:14 PM
Like when he put up 80+ receptions, 6 TD, 1,200 plus yards in 2007 when the Falcons were 4-12, mass drama in the preseason, new coach, coach leaves midseason, and a QB carousel.

Hmm.

That's a fair argument, but it still doesn't compare to the extreme that is Buccaneers football right now. Bryant was able to do similar things last year as the only viable target/weapon for us on offense. We have enough talent/weapons now to succeed, but we have no one to get them the ball. None of our quarterbacks can throw accurately and make sound decisions.

Honestly...there isn't a receiver in the league that could produce on our team right now.

I'm not saying you guys didn't win the previous debate, but it's more complicated than simple statistics.

d34ng3l021
11-07-2009, 12:19 AM
That's a fair argument, but it still doesn't compare to the extreme that is Buccaneers football right now. Bryant was able to do similar things last year as the only viable target/weapon for us on offense. We have enough talent/weapons now to succeed, but we have no one to get them the ball. None of our quarterbacks can throw accurately and make sound decisions.

Honestly...there isn't a receiver in the league that could produce on our team right now.

I'm not saying you guys didn't win the previous debate, but it's more complicated than simple statistics.

Of course, but the situation that Antonio Bryant is currently in is very similar to the situation that Roddy White was a part of in 2007. In fact, Leftwich was part of both the teams. The other QBs that season were Joey Harrington (colossal bust) and Chris Redman (was selling insurance before Petrino) when White put up 80 and 1200. If Bryant was on the same level as White, then he would still find a way to contribute. However, the OC leaving hurts Bryants situation a lot; at least Petrino was there until week 13 or whatever.

etk
11-07-2009, 10:45 AM
Of course, but the situation that Antonio Bryant is currently in is very similar to the situation that Roddy White was a part of in 2007. In fact, Leftwich was part of both the teams. The other QBs that season were Joey Harrington (colossal bust) and Chris Redman (was selling insurance before Petrino) when White put up 80 and 1200. If Bryant was on the same level as White, then he would still find a way to contribute. However, the OC leaving hurts Bryants situation a lot; at least Petrino was there until week 13 or whatever.

And injuries. White is better than Bryant at this point, but current production is not why.

NIMV
01-06-2010, 08:03 PM
HEAD COACH: Sean Payton

OFFENSE

QB: Drew Brees
RB: DeAngelo Willliams
FB: Ovie Mughelli
WR: Marques Colston
OL: John Stinchcomb
OL: Carl Nicks
OL: Ryan Kalil
OL: Jahri Evans
OL: Jeff Otah
TE: Tony Gonzalez
WR: Roddy White

RESERVES: Matt Ryan,Josh Freeman,Jonathan Stewart,Michael Turner,
Steve Smith,Antonio Bryant,Jeremy Shockey,Jeremy Trueblood,
Kendrick Vincent,Jeff Faine.

DEFENSE

DL: Julius Peppers
DL: Jonathan Babineaux
DL: Anthony Hargrove
DL: Will Smith
LB: Jon Beason
LB: Curtis Lofton
LB: Jonathan Vilma
DB: Aqib Talib
DB: Erik Coleman
DB: Darren Sharper
DB: Chris Gamble

RESERVES: Jon Abraham,Damione Lewis,Barrett Rudd,Mike Peterson,
Brent Grimes,Tanard Jackson

SPECIAL TEAMS

K: John Kasay
P: Dirk Johnson
LS: Jason Kyle
KR/PR: Clifton Smith

brasho
01-16-2010, 03:37 PM
HEAD COACH: Sean Payton

OFFENSE

QB: Drew Brees
RB: DeAngelo Willliams
FB: Ovie Mughelli
WR: Marques Colston
OL: John Stinchcomb
OL: Carl Nicks
OL: Ryan Kalil
OL: Jahri Evans
OL: Jeff Otah
TE: Tony Gonzalez
WR: Roddy White

RESERVES: Matt Ryan,Josh Freeman,Jonathan Stewart,Michael Turner,
Steve Smith,Antonio Bryant,Jeremy Shockey,Jeremy Trueblood,
Kendrick Vincent,Jeff Faine.

DEFENSE

DL: Julius Peppers
DL: Jonathan Babineaux
DL: Anthony Hargrove
DL: Will Smith
LB: Jon Beason
LB: Curtis Lofton
LB: Jonathan Vilma
DB: Aqib Talib
DB: Erik Coleman
DB: Darren Sharper
DB: Chris Gamble

RESERVES: Jon Abraham,Damione Lewis,Barrett Rudd,Mike Peterson,
Brent Grimes,Tanard Jackson

SPECIAL TEAMS

K: John Kasay
P: Dirk Johnson
LS: Jason Kyle
KR/PR: Clifton Smith

I'm a Bucs fan and you have Jeremy Trueblood listed as a reserve player which totally invalidates your entire list.

Tanard Jackson is the best safety in the dvision, including Sharper. Geno Hayes should be recognized as at least a reserve OLB. Davin Joseph is the best OG in the division. Kellen WInlow had a better year as the only reliable receiver ona bad team than Shockey. and BTW, it's Barrett RUUD! Terrible omissions! and one terrible inclusion.

zachsaints52
01-16-2010, 07:13 PM
I'm a Bucs fan and you have Jeremy Trueblood listed as a reserve player which totally invalidates your entire list.

Davin Joseph is the best OG in the division.

You saying Davin Joseph is the best OG totally invalidates whatever you say after that.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-17-2010, 11:26 AM
That's a pretty poor list to be honest with you.

brasho
01-24-2010, 02:46 PM
You saying Davin Joseph is the best OG totally invalidates whatever you say after that.
And I believe Trueblood might be the worst OT in the division... does that revalidate me?

Oh Jeez! You're from Richlands! I could say the same about you because of that! WOW, small world. :) My dad and his family are from Richlands as well as a good friend of mine's dad.... I could shoot back about the Davin Joseph comment but I don't want to fire back at somebody that has about a 50/50 shot of being related to me (oops, I mean "kin"-to be pronounced "keeen").

Anyways, Joseph was a pro bowler last season when the team was decent and had a far better season this year (despite playing for a terrible team).

Draft King
11-02-2010, 10:31 PM
I love Roddy White.

Caddy
11-02-2010, 10:43 PM
I'm jealous of Roddy! You guys should trade him to us. Him and Mike Williams would be AMAZING.

Also we should try and do a revised All NFC South team.

ATLDirtyBirds
11-03-2010, 11:01 AM
I'm jealous of Roddy! You guys should trade him to us. Him and Mike Williams would be AMAZING.

Also we should try and do a revised All NFC South team.



If you guys still had Antonio Bryant, I'd gladly do that deal.

Caddy
11-03-2010, 05:57 PM
If you guys still had Antonio Bryant, I'd gladly do that deal.

I hear he is a free agent these days. How about we sign and trade him! Deal.

ATLDirtyBirds
11-03-2010, 09:20 PM
I hear he is a free agent these days. How about we sign and trade him! Deal.

Definitely. I mean, Antonio Bryant was seeing 8 men covering him with absolutely no help, and he was a dominant player with the greatest potential any WR has ever had. Can't pass that up.

Draft King
11-03-2010, 10:22 PM
I know Caddy is doing his NFC South list, but I'm bored and feel like making one. Last time I did this I did fairly descriptive explanations, I'll just put some brief words this time.

QB: Drew Brees
ALT: Matt Ryan

Right now Brees is the best, although he has struggled a little this season. Matt Ryan has been pretty damn good this season, but Josh Freeman is not far behind.


RB: DeAngelo Williams
ALT: Michael Turner

Position looks a lot weaker than it did several years ago. Williams is my #1 although he is not having his best season. Turner isn't what he was two seasons ago but is still a very productive back. Jon Stewart has struggled this year after really impressing me last season. LaGarrette Blount is a talented young back to keep an eye on.

FB: Ovie Mughelli

May be the best blocking back in the NFL. He may be **** but damn it he is a beast.

WR: Roddy White
WR: Marques Colston
ALT: Mike Williams

Another position that doesn't look as strong, at least depth wise, as it did two seasons ago. White has proven he is the clear cut #1 (take that Antonio Bryant), and Colston remains at #2. Mike Williams is an extremely talented up and comer who should continue to do big things with Josh Freeman.

TE: Tony Gonzalez
ALT: Kellen Winslow Jr.

Almost didn't put Gonzalez in the top spot, seeing as he has lost a step and a half. He is still a fairly effective blocker and a nice target in the redzone and on third down. Winslow snuck in right in front of Jeremy Shockey.

LT: Don't Know
LG: Carl Nicks
C: Ryan Kalil
RG: Jahri Evans
RT: Tyson Clabo

Honestly, not really sure with O-Line. Tough to keep up with the hoggies. Some of this is based off of name recognition.

LE: Will Smith
DT: Sedrick Ellis
DT: Jon Babineaux
RE: John Abraham

Again, I'm not great with linemen. I know Will Smith was beasting last year, especially against Atlanta. Sed Ellis has really picked it up and has been a force inside. Babineaux is great at getting penetration in the backfield and making tackles for loss. Abraham is doing well again after having an off season last year.

WLB: Jon Beason
MLB: Curtis Lofton
SLB: Jon Vilma

I'm playing players out of position here, just wanted to get the players I felt were the three best linebackers in the division. Beason is one of the better linebackers in the NFL, Lofton is a tackling machine, and Vilma seems to make big plays at the right time for the Saints.

CB: Jabari Greer
CB: Aqib Talib
ALT: Dunta Robinson
FS: Charles Godfrey
SS: William Moore

Jabari Greer is quietly one of the better corners in the NFL. Aqib Talib gets beat his fair share of times, but straight up is great at making big plays and turning the ball over. Dunta is probably the best tackling corner in the division, and is not too shabby in coverage. Godfrey has been one of the lone bright spots on the Panthers D, and William Moore has proven he is not a bust by killing it this season.

K: John Kasay
P: Jason Baker
KR: Mike Goodson
PR: Reggie Bush

The NFC South has some pretty garbage returners, Bush made the list pretty much of his past big plays and because everybody else has been mediocre, same with Goodson. Kasay is 9/10 this season and Baker has the best net avg.

Chucky
11-03-2010, 10:34 PM
Linebackers should be

Quincy Black-Jon Beason- Thomas Davis

and Tanard Jackson should be at FS and LT should be Jordan Gross and RT should be Otah and I would probably take J-Stew over Turner at this point

ATLDirtyBirds
11-04-2010, 08:04 AM
Linebackers should be

Quincy Black-Jon Beason- Thomas Davis

and Tanard Jackson should be at FS and LT should be Jordan Gross and RT should be Otah and I would probably take J-Stew over Turner at this point

The way he did the linebackers is fine. Bucs fans again overrating Tanard Jackson. He's good, but not good enough where you can automatically put him on the list especially with what his season has looked like this far. And taking Stew with his horrendous year over Turner is laughable.

Caddy
11-04-2010, 08:27 AM
The way he did the linebackers is fine. Bucs fans again overrating Tanard Jackson. He's good, but not good enough where you can automatically put him on the list especially with what his season has looked like this far. And taking Stew with his horrendous year over Turner is laughable.

What do you mean by this. Are you implying that he has been playing poorly this season? The reason he doesn't deserve to be on the list has nothing to do with his play. It's because he has been suspended for a season! If he was playing he'd easily make the list as the free safety.

Chucky
11-04-2010, 09:39 AM
The way he did the linebackers is fine. Bucs fans again overrating Tanard Jackson. He's good, but not good enough where you can automatically put him on the list especially with what his season has looked like this far. And taking Stew with his horrendous year over Turner is laughable.

He is playing linebackers out of position( or at least Vilma, I forgot Beason switched outside this year,although Beason should definately be at MLB). Tanard is definately the best Free Safety in the division. It really isn't close. The only reason not to put him there is his suspension, but I don't think that kind of thing would be taken into account. I am a huge J-Stew fan and while he may be having a down year no one in Carolina is doing anything good this year

ATLDirtyBirds
11-04-2010, 10:06 AM
What do you mean by this. Are you implying that he has been playing poorly this season? The reason he doesn't deserve to be on the list has nothing to do with his play. It's because he has been suspended for a season! If he was playing he'd easily make the list as the free safety.



I'm implying that it's tough to put a guy who is a cheater and has barely played/will barely play on a list of the ALL NFC South team.

Caddy
11-04-2010, 06:24 PM
I'm implying that it's tough to put a guy who is a cheater and has barely played/will barely play on a list of the ALL NFC South team.

I agree. (I thought you were implying he was playing poorly!) If you get suspended you have no right to be included on a list like this.

D-Rod
11-10-2010, 08:16 AM
I'm going to beat Yasinkas to it and do my All-NFCS team. I'll give explanation where I think it needs any. Based principally on this year, so long-term injured like T.Davis and Otah miss out.

QB: Brees
RB: Turner (Williams has been a non-factor this year, Stewart has blown his chance to be the main guy)
FB: Mughelli

WR: White
WR: Colston (production has been so-so for a while, but would still take him over anyone else. Smith has done nothing this year, and M.Williams needs more time)
WR: Moore (specifically in the slot)
TE: Gonzalez (no longer the amazing athlete that Winslow is, but his blocking, experience, and leadership carry the day)

LT: Gross (I don't think anyone's done a great job this year, so I'm going to give it to Gross based on career consistency)
LG: Joseph
C: Kalil (although McClure deserves a shout, still underrated)
RG: Evans
RT: Clabo (his best year by far, there's been no pressure on Ryan from the right side, he's been clearing good holes for Turner, and leads the whole line in attitude with Dahl)

RE: Abraham
DT: Babineaux
DT: Ellis
LE: Smith (yes, I know wrong side... but he's clearly better than the others, and could easily play strongside)

ROLB: Beason
MLB: Lofton
SOLB: Vilma (you get your best players on the field, and these three are clearly ahead of any other LB in the division, and Beason/Vilma could easily play on the outside - best MLB though is Beason)

CB: Greer
CB: Talib
SS: Harper (not many contenders, Moore's started well but a few mistakes)
FS: Sharper (still just got a knack for finding the football - Godfray, Jenkins, and DeCoud are all good, young talents though)

K: Bryant
P: Morstead
KR: Spurlock
PR: Bush (not much competition, so keeps the job despite injury)

Coach: Payton (as much as I love Smitty for his leadership ability, I have to admit that Payton is special as an offensive mind)

Auron
11-10-2010, 06:26 PM
Pretty solid All division team, can't find much fault with it based on mainly this season.

wicket
11-25-2010, 07:13 PM
please kick bush off the punt returns

etk
11-27-2010, 01:10 AM
I'm going to beat Yasinkas to it and do my All-NFCS team. I'll give explanation where I think it needs any. Based principally on this year, so long-term injured like T.Davis and Otah miss out.

QB: Brees
RB: Turner (Williams has been a non-factor this year, Stewart has blown his chance to be the main guy)
FB: Mughelli

WR: White
WR: Colston (production has been so-so for a while, but would still take him over anyone else. Smith has done nothing this year, and M.Williams needs more time)
WR: Moore (specifically in the slot)
TE: Gonzalez (no longer the amazing athlete that Winslow is, but his blocking, experience, and leadership carry the day)

LT: Gross (I don't think anyone's done a great job this year, so I'm going to give it to Gross based on career consistency)
LG: Joseph
C: Kalil (although McClure deserves a shout, still underrated)
RG: Evans
RT: Clabo (his best year by far, there's been no pressure on Ryan from the right side, he's been clearing good holes for Turner, and leads the whole line in attitude with Dahl)

RE: Abraham
DT: Babineaux
DT: Ellis
LE: Smith (yes, I know wrong side... but he's clearly better than the others, and could easily play strongside)

ROLB: Beason
MLB: Lofton
SOLB: Vilma (you get your best players on the field, and these three are clearly ahead of any other LB in the division, and Beason/Vilma could easily play on the outside - best MLB though is Beason)

CB: Greer
CB: Talib
SS: Harper (not many contenders, Moore's started well but a few mistakes)
FS: Sharper (still just got a knack for finding the football - Godfray, Jenkins, and DeCoud are all good, young talents though)

K: Bryant
P: Morstead
KR: Spurlock
PR: Bush (not much competition, so keeps the job despite injury)

Coach: Payton (as much as I love Smitty for his leadership ability, I have to admit that Payton is special as an offensive mind)

It's close and not really worth arguing, but:

-I'd switch Gross with Donald Penn. I don't know about Gross but you sound unsure and Penn has been very good this year.
-Switch Ellis with Gerald McCoy. Obviously I've seen more of McCoy than Ellis but McCoy is much more valuable, gets a lot of penetration and is getting better by the week.
-Switch Vilma with Quincy Black -> this I'm the most sure of. Black is a prototypical OLB and Vilma is out of position.

ATLDirtyBirds
11-27-2010, 07:36 AM
Let's get Antonio Bryant in there too. Sure, he's out of the division (and out of football for that matter), but he's just so much better than Roddy.

Caddy
11-27-2010, 07:42 AM
http://hippiekiller.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/troll.jpg

wicket
11-27-2010, 07:46 AM
-Switch Ellis with Gerald McCoy. Obviously I've seen more of McCoy than Ellis but McCoy is much more valuable, gets a lot of penetration and is getting better by the week.
-Switch Vilma with Quincy Black -> this I'm the most sure of. Black is a prototypical OLB and Vilma is out of position.

Ellis and Vilma have easily been the best Saints this season, not just the best defensive players but the best players. They are the main reason that the D is ranked about fourth in the league depending on which standard you use.

McCoy over Ellis is verrrrry wrong imho.

Myabe you want Black in but you really cant kick Vilma out, Lofton and Beason are both better candidates to be kicked out based on this season.

Caddy
11-27-2010, 07:54 AM
I agree that Sed Ellis should be above McCoy at the moment, but I'm fine with Black at SLB considering it is his natural position whereas it is not Vilma's.

wicket
11-27-2010, 08:32 AM
I agree that Sed Ellis should be above McCoy at the moment, but I'm fine with Black at SLB considering it is his natural position whereas it is not Vilma's.

my point is that you can put black there but that vilma should then be in on Will or mike

ATLDirtyBirds
11-27-2010, 08:18 PM
http://hippiekiller.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/troll.jpg

I remember the days when Bucs fans used to praise the name of Antonio Bryant, the man, the myth, the legend.

Caddy
11-27-2010, 10:46 PM
my point is that you can put black there but that vilma should then be in on Will or mike

That's fair enough. In that case I'd go with Beason - Vilma - Black

etk
11-28-2010, 10:23 AM
Let's get Antonio Bryant in there too. Sure, he's out of the division (and out of football for that matter), but he's just so much better than Roddy.

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/052/812/original/Deal_with_it_dog_gif.gif?1275684729

Antonio was better than Roddy. Obviously Roddy is better now and Antonio is injured, but that has no bearing on the previous argument.

@wicket Fair enough.

ATLDirtyBirds
11-28-2010, 05:20 PM
http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/052/812/original/Deal_with_it_dog_gif.gif?1275684729

Antonio was better than Roddy. Obviously Roddy is better now and Antonio is injured, but that has no bearing on the previous argument.

@wicket Fair enough.



Very true. Wait what was that argument again? Was it the stats? Nope, White had more catches, more yards, more explosive plays, same number of TDs. Was it consistency? Haha. Oh, it was the fact that Antonio didn't have a great QB (even though White put up the same numbers with garbage at QB the year before) and the fact that Bryant was better in college. You're totally right. Antonio was clearly better than White. It's a damn shame where we are at now.

Caddy
01-19-2011, 01:14 AM
QB: Drew Brees
RB: Michael Turner
RB: LeGarrette Blount
FB: Ovie Mughelli
WR: Roddy White
TE: Kellen Winslow
LT: Donald Penn
LG: Carl Nicks
C: Ryan Kalil
RG: Jahri Evans
RT: Jordan Gross
WR: Marques Colston

DE: Will Smith
DT: Johnathan Babineaux
DT: Sedrick Ellis
DE: John Abraham
OLB: Quincy Black
MLB: Jon Beason
OLB: Thomas Davis
CB: Aqib Talib
FS: Malcolm Jenkins
SS: Charles Godfrey
CB: Jabari Greer

K: Who cares
P: Who cares
LS: Who cares
KR: Eric Weems

bucfan12
01-19-2011, 01:26 AM
QB: Drew Brees
RB: Michael Turner
RB: LeGarrette Blount
FB: Ovie Mughelli
WR: Roddy White
TE: Kellen Winslow
LT: Donald Penn
LG: Carl Nicks
C: Ryan Kalil
RG: Jahri Evans
RT: Jordan Gross
WR: Marques Colston

DE: Will Smith
DT: Johnathan Babineaux
DT: Sedrick Ellis
DE: John Abraham
OLB: Quincy Black
MLB: Jon Beason
OLB: Thomas Davis
CB: Aqib Talib
FS: Malcolm Jenkins
SS: Charles Godfrey
CB: Jabari Greer

K: Who cares
P: Who cares
LS: Who cares
KR: Eric Weems

Not to be a homer, but Freeman had the best season and would take Ryan or Freeman over Drew Brees. Heres mine:

QB: Freeman/Ryan
RB: Turner
RB: Blount
FB: Ovie Mughelli
WR: Roddy White
WR: Mike Williams
TE: Kellen Winslow
T: Donald Penn
G: Jhari Evens
C: Ryan Kahil
G: Carl Nicks
T: Sam Baker

Defense:
DE: John Abraham
DT: Sedrick Ellis
DT: Jon Babenieux
DE: Will Smith
WLB: Jon Beason
MLB: Jon Vilma
SLB: Quincy Black
CB: Brent Grimes
FS: Malcom Jenkins
SS: Charles Godfrey
CB: Aquib Talib

Special teams:
K: Matt Bryant
P: Moorehead
KR: Eric Weems
LS: ???????

Caddy
01-19-2011, 01:27 AM
Mine wasn't based purely on 10/11 season.

bullg8rdaddy
01-19-2011, 03:29 AM
Overall in 2010:

Drew Brees Wins - 11, 448/658 (68.1% ) 4620 yards (7.02 per Att.) 33 TDs/ 25 INTs = Passer rating - 90.9

Matt Ryan Wins - 12, 357/571 (62.5% ) 3705 yards (6.49 per Att.) 28 TDs/9 INTs = Passer rating - 91.0

Josh Freeman Wins -10, 291/474 (61.4% ) 3451 yards (7.28 per Att.) 25 TDs/ 6 INTs = Passer rating - 95.9


Brees:

Stats against common opponents:

W-L 7-3 265/386 (68.6% ) 2684 yards (6.95 per Att.) and 23TDs/ 15 INTs = 91.94 rating

Stats head 2 head:

H2H 2-2 98/157 (62.4% ) 1126 yards (7.17 per Att.) and 8TDs/ 6 INTs = 85.05 rating


Ryan:

Stats against common opponents:

W-L 9-1 234/370 (62.2% )2430 yards (6.57 per Att.) 19 TDs/ 6 INTs = 92.51 rating

Stats head 2 head:

H2H 3-1 76/131 (58.0% ) 816 yards (6.23 per Att.) 6 TDs/ 2 INTs = 85.29 rating


Freeman:

Stats against common opponents:

W-L 8-2 179/ 288 (62.2% ) 2090 yards (7.25 per Att.) 17 TDs/ 3 INTs = 99.45 rating


Stats head 2 head:

H2H 1-3 76/129 (58.9% ) 844 yards (6.54 per Att.) 6 TDs/ 3 INTs = 84.24 rating




So, who should be the NFC South QB? And why?

Drew Brees has:
Most Attempts.
Most Completions.
Highest completion %.
Most passing yards.
Most TD passes.


Matt Ryan has:
Best head to head record.
Best record against common opponents.
Best overall record.
#1 Seed in the NFC.
Best passer rating head 2 head.


Josh Freeman has:
Best passer rating overall.
Best passer rating against common Opp.
Highest yards per Att.
Least INTs.
Most rushing yards.

Thoughts?

d34ng3l021
01-19-2011, 01:45 PM
Either way, it is not Josh Freeman. In order to gain respect in the NFL, you need to be able to replicate success. Let's see Freeman do that before we rank him ahead of Drew Brees and Matt Ryan.

bullg8rdaddy
01-19-2011, 01:49 PM
If it's for this year, what does it matter if Free did it in "back to back" years?

To me, it looks like they all had great years. Ryan had the better team. Brees had the most opportunities (they really asked him to sling the ball alot this year). Free was the most efficient.

Caddy
01-19-2011, 06:35 PM
Either way, it is not Josh Freeman. In order to gain respect in the NFL, you need to be able to replicate success. Let's see Freeman do that before we rank him ahead of Drew Brees and Matt Ryan.

I agree with this. I think you could make the argument that he had the best season if you focus solely on 2010. But when picking an all-star team I think you need to go with someone who has shown consistency.

bullg8rdaddy
01-19-2011, 06:39 PM
Oh and for the record, I don't think it's Free this year either.

Ryan for me.

Auron
01-21-2011, 08:30 PM
If it's for this year, what does it matter if Free did it in "back to back" years?

To me, it looks like they all had great years. Ryan had the better team. Brees had the most opportunities (they really asked him to sling the ball alot this year).
Well that is what happens when you have no running game, because none of your Running backs can stay healthy through out the season. Brees is asked to carry a team on his shoulders week in and week out, something that Ryan/Freeman don't have to do because they have solid dependable run games, and Defenses that are more consistent at limiting opposing teams.

I think Ryan and Freeman are great young QBs, and both will oversee their franchises to quite a few victories but they haven't arrived into that Elite status quite yet. All 3 of the aforementioned NFC South QBs had a ton of success in the regular season, however it all culminated in the same end result, 0 post season victories. So it's pretty much a wash and you can take your pick who was better for the 2010 season based on whatever criteria you prefer.

Caddy
01-21-2011, 08:33 PM
For what it's worth, ESPN had Freeman as their NFC South MVP of 2010.

CJSchneider
01-21-2011, 08:53 PM
Yeah, well, they're ****** in the head, so....

Caddy
01-21-2011, 08:55 PM
Yeah, well, they're ****** in the head, so....

It was Pat Yasinskas and to be fair he actually does a great job covering the NFC South throughout the season.

bullg8rdaddy
01-23-2011, 04:57 PM
Well that is what happens when you have no running game, because none of your Running backs can stay healthy through out the season. Brees is asked to carry a team on his shoulders week in and week out, something that Ryan/Freeman don't have to do because they have solid dependable run games, and Defenses that are more consistent at limiting opposing teams.

I think Ryan and Freeman are great young QBs, and both will oversee their franchises to quite a few victories but they haven't arrived into that Elite status quite yet. All 3 of the aforementioned NFC South QBs had a ton of success in the regular season, however it all culminated in the same end result, 0 post season victories. So it's pretty much a wash and you can take your pick who was better for the 2010 season based on whatever criteria you prefer.

Agree that Brees is asked to carry NO, but Freeman was doing that as well, at least until Blount started getting more touches around week 11.

Draft King
01-25-2011, 04:02 PM
As a Falcons fan, I think right now it is still Brees. However, if he plays like he did in 2010 again, he would no longer be my guy. Way too many INTs. If Freeman repeats his success, he has a shot at claiming that top spot. Ryan has a shot if Mularkey decides to open up the offense a little. It really is a three-horse race.

Draft King
01-25-2011, 04:04 PM
QB: Drew Brees
RB: LeGarrette Blount
FB: Ovie Mughelli
WR: Roddy White
TE: Kellen Winslow
LT: Donald Penn
LG: Carl Nicks
C: Ryan Kalil
RG: Jahri Evans
RT: Tyson Clabo
WR: Mike Williams

DE: Will Smith
DT: Jonathan Babineaux
DT: Sedrick Ellis
DE: John Abraham
OLB: Quincy Black
MLB: Curtis Lofton
OLB: Jon Beason
CB: Aqib Talib
FS: Malcolm Jenkins
SS: William Moore
CB: Jabari Greer

KR: Eric Weems

the_dark_knight
01-26-2011, 03:28 PM
QB: Drew Brees
RB: LeGarrette Blount
FB: Ovie Mughelli
WR: Roddy White
TE: Kellen Winslow
LT: Donald Penn
LG: Carl Nicks
C: Ryan Kalil
RG: Jahri Evans
RT: Tyson Clabo
WR: Mike Williams

DE: Will Smith
DT: Jonathan Babineaux
DT: Sedrick Ellis
DE: John Abraham
OLB: Quincy Black
MLB: Curtis Lofton
OLB: Jon Beason
CB: Aqib Talib
FS: Malcolm Jenkins
SS: William Moore
CB: Jabari Greer

KR: Eric Weems

0% chance I'd take Blount over Turner. Other than that, I like this list a lot. 1 other thing, I like Williams, and I think he's going to be very good, for a very long time, I just don't know if I could take him as my #2 WR from the NFC South. I know Colston has been down of late, but that dude catches everything. That's a really tough call.

bullg8rdaddy
01-27-2011, 01:34 AM
White and Colston over Mike Williams for me.

Draft King
01-27-2011, 04:01 PM
0% chance I'd take Blount over Turner. Other than that, I like this list a lot. 1 other thing, I like Williams, and I think he's going to be very good, for a very long time, I just don't know if I could take him as my #2 WR from the NFC South. I know Colston has been down of late, but that dude catches everything. That's a really tough call.

I'm not as big a Turner fan as I once was. He does not have that explosiveness anymore. Blount does. I read a stat where Blount was the top rusher over the 2nd half of the season or something like that.

bullg8rdaddy
01-27-2011, 07:07 PM
Over the last 8 games of the season:

Turner had 677 yards on 179 carries for an avg. of 3.78

Blount had 739 yards on 145 carries for an avg. of 5.09

Charles had 748 yards on 117 carries for an avg. of 6.39

Foster had 752 yards on 170 carries for an avg. of 4.42


Don't have time now, but Blount might have led over the last 10 games of the season.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-27-2011, 09:11 PM
I'll still take Turner over Blount at this point. It's by no means a big lead, but let's see how Blount handles a full years load first. His running style would be concerning to me as a Bucs fan.

But I fully agree on Turner. He's very overrated around these parts. He's a good RB for sure. But we are going to make sure he gets his touches, and he runs behind a good run blocking line. And the best FB in football. He's going to put up some numbers. But as DK said, the explosiveness has been zapped. There's no second gear and he doesn't seem as willing to just plow people over. He just finds his hole and falls forward at this point really.

Caddy
01-28-2011, 12:25 AM
I agree that for now it is Turner > Blount. Blount has great potential and I could definitely see him being a Turner style runner in the NFL.

wicket
01-29-2011, 04:15 AM
I dont get who would put ryan over brees, freeman maybe but the 0.3 yards per attempt that ryan has really rubs me the wrong way.

etk
01-31-2011, 01:59 PM
I'd take Turner over Blount, although Blount breaks more big runs which is a huge plus. Blount needs to learn how to be a short-yardage back before he enters Michael Turner territory. Turner is a beast in the red zone, Blount is a non-factor.

the_dark_knight
02-01-2011, 08:15 AM
I think a big portion of Turner's downfall has been Mike Mularkey. He calls the same 4 plays all game long, makes it impossible to run really. The Falcons are having to overcome not only the opposing defense, but we're having to out play our offensive coordinator's play calls. We have a promising young QB, and we have a very solid squad, minus a #2 WR which we are really lacking at.

But I think that's why you don't see as many big runs from Turner. He does seem a bit slow to the hole, but a lot of the time I think it's just him being patient, other times I have visions of TJ Duckett flashing in my head. But until Blount proves he can do it with people gameplanning for him, then we'll see.

I think Blount is Brandon Jacobs 2.0

TornadoRex
02-13-2011, 06:15 PM
I think Blount is Brandon Jacobs 2.0

Except that Blount isn't a woman.

Brandon Jacobs is the weakest runner in the NFL, pound for pound.