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ahh nah
12-06-2007, 08:45 AM
where do you see it going?

could McKown be the long-term solution in your opinion?
should we look for one in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft?
trade for Brady Quinn?
pick up a project in the 3-7th and hope for a Derek Anderson/Tom Brady
free agency?

share your thoughts

Beans
12-06-2007, 09:39 AM
I personally like Colt Brennan a lot, and he could be a good 2nd/3rd round investment. I also still think Chirs Simms is a good quarterback but that **** aint happening.

zCaddyz
12-06-2007, 10:16 AM
McNabb gurden likes him, and u know what he does with vet qbs he would fit our system.................be kinda crazy mcnabb in a bucs jersey

etk
12-06-2007, 10:49 AM
Great thread concept, I was just thinking about this as I was reading The Blind Side.

I think the future of our team at QB is very simple...it's Jon Gruden. His system and coaching really determines the success of our QBs, for the most part. Basically what's meant is that almost any QB can lead our offense successfully based on what's expected. There are exceptions, of course, like Bruce Gradkowski ;). Bill Walsh turned undersized, unprepared young QBs into league-leading superstars in his WCO. When he coached the Bengals, his QB couldn't throw more than 20 yards, yet he led the league in comp. %. Walsh's QBs thought they were great players and demanded money, and he just scrapped them and brought in new ones. The former QBs disappeared in the league. Then he turned Montana and Young (to a lesser extent) into superstars.

We don't need a "franchise QB" or a high draft pick. What we need is someone who knows the offense and can deliver on time and to the spot. Luke McCown appears more than able of fulfilling that role. My only knock on McCown is that he waits a bit too long to throw deep balls, and he freezes up when his reads are negative. He has too much faith in his athletic ability so he thinks he can outrun everyone (sometimes he can). All of that can be fixed with time (we have plenty).

As much as I like McCown as our future QB, we still need depth, competition and insurance. We have a few options and paths we could take:

1) Draft a QB this year: I think Colt Brennan would be better than any QB we've ever had in Tampa. I doubt his availability, but he's worth a 2nd-round pick. The more likely option would be drafting a QB later, but the options are slim. The only one I like is Tulsa's Paul Smith. He's a prototypical WCO QB. His deep ball is okay, but he's great at using the width of the field. He can throw bullets to the outside and accurate passes to the inside, and that's all we need. He's not as good as Brennan but he would be a nice career backup to prevent BGS (Bruce Gradkowski Syndrome: heart-attacks).

2) Sign a vet: McNabb would also be an upgrade for our offense. It would be a similar situation to Garcia-Simms. I don't know what other QBs would be available but I assume McNabb is the only oner worthy of starting.

3) Draft a QB next year: This is the most realistic based on our current situation. Garcia retires and we have an open spot, or two. Chase Daniel is worth a 2nd-round pick. He's accurate and can throw heaters in tight windows. He also has composure and moxie, like McCown, which would make him a great leader and a Garcia clone. Graham Harrell and Rudy Carpenter are other options.

dbtb135
12-07-2007, 02:03 AM
I gotta go with a QB next year. I doubt we'll get any of the top 3 this year, so I wouldn't grab one this year. We stay with Garcia, Luke, and Grads/Simms then go after one of the top QBs the next year. We should try to upgrade our WRs, LT, or maybe RB. Then, next year try and get a QB and center. If we could get Chase Daniel, with his short frame that Gruden likes but the rest of the NFL hates, and Alex Mack of Cal, our offense would be in amazing position. I like those options a lot better than any from those two positions this year. This year, we could find a balance of defense and offense, while getting either a playmaker from RB or WR and/or an LT, it'd put us in good position to fill out our young centerpieces next year. Like the Steelers did, building their offense, then drafting Roethlisberger as the finishing touch.

etk
12-07-2007, 11:28 AM
I gotta go with a QB next year. I doubt we'll get any of the top 3 this year, so I wouldn't grab one this year. We stay with Garcia, Luke, and Grads/Simms then go after one of the top QBs the next year. We should try to upgrade our WRs, LT, or maybe RB. Then, next year try and get a QB and center. If we could get Chase Daniel, with his short frame that Gruden likes but the rest of the NFL hates, and Alex Mack of Cal, our offense would be in amazing position. I like those options a lot better than any from those two positions this year. This year, we could find a balance of defense and offense, while getting either a playmaker from RB or WR and/or an LT, it'd put us in good position to fill out our young centerpieces next year. Like the Steelers did, building their offense, then drafting Roethlisberger as the finishing touch.

We don't need to draft a top QB. We can run our offense well with overlooked talent. We don't need a big-arm top-5 QB to have success. The guys that we should draft are the Kevin Kolb, Paul Smith, Chase Daniel types. The Youngs, Quinns and Ryans don't fit well in our offense.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-07-2007, 05:08 PM
Luke Mccown in the immediate future, while drafting and grooming Flacco or Josh Johnson.

dbtb135
12-08-2007, 12:51 AM
We don't need to draft a top QB. We can run our offense well with overlooked talent. We don't need a big-arm top-5 QB to have success. The guys that we should draft are the Kevin Kolb, Paul Smith, Chase Daniel types. The Youngs, Quinns and Ryans don't fit well in our offense.

I think Gruden would definitely take a long look at one of the top 3 if they dropped. We can run our offense without a big time QB, but that doesn't mean we would automatically overlook one. Our offense could very well run even better with a very talented QB.

Luke Mccown in the immediate future, while drafting and grooming Flacco or Josh Johnson.

I don't think Gruden is going to be grooming any QB any time soon. He had his little pet project in Grads, his ball of potential in Simms, his reclamation project in Rattay, and Luke McCown thrown in there. I think it's safe to say he's either going to go with a QB who can come in with all the necessary skills to push for a job soon or go with yet another veteran.

Caddy
12-08-2007, 02:45 AM
This is a really good thread topic and at the moment I really don't know how I view the QB situation anymore. On one hand you have Luke McCown who in spot duty showed flashes of the type of QB who can fit in Gruden's system. However FA and the Draft also offer intriguing prospects.

Previously I was a big fan of going after Ainge. But now I feel like a reassessment of QB needs to be done and in the immediate future I'm not sure which side of the proverbial fence I sit on.

etk
12-08-2007, 10:56 AM
I think Gruden would definitely take a long look at one of the top 3 if they dropped. We can run our offense without a big time QB, but that doesn't mean we would automatically overlook one. Our offense could very well run even better with a very talented QB.



I don't think Gruden is going to be grooming any QB any time soon. He had his little pet project in Grads, his ball of potential in Simms, his reclamation project in Rattay, and Luke McCown thrown in there. I think it's safe to say he's either going to go with a QB who can come in with all the necessary skills to push for a job soon or go with yet another veteran.

Yeah, it's not like there's an unwritten rule, but I just don't feel that any of the top 3 are great fits for our offense. This is how I'd rank them:

1) Brennan
2) Brohm
3) Wait for Smith

The rest of the QBs have glaring weaknesses and are only worth picking if they drop. For example, Henne has a great intermediate arm and throws an accurate deep ball, but his decision-making is very poor.

I agree with your 2nd paragraph. It's very unlikely we will draft a QB this year. We could sign a UDFA for a potential project.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-08-2007, 04:25 PM
Apparently Piscitelli has been helping Gruden break down film. Can you say future QB? ;)

etk
12-08-2007, 04:32 PM
Apparently Piscitelli has been helping Gruden break down film. Can you say future QB? ;)

You have given out too much reputation in the past 24 hours, try again later.

When bucpimpin posted that response, I was like "wow, I just got pimp slapped. Gruden likes him as a scout so he must be good."

Tampa 2 4 life
12-08-2007, 04:36 PM
You have given out too much reputation in the past 24 hours, try again later.

When bucpimpin posted that response, I was like "wow, I just got pimp slapped. Gruden likes him as a scout so he must be good."

I think he'd make a damn fine Scout Team guy, though. Breaking down film in a system where he drops back and plays deep zones every passing down is an invaluable skill!

joercky
12-08-2007, 05:31 PM
The improvement McCown has made from Cleveland to Tampa is amazing. Do what Dallas did with Romo let McCown soak up the system which is what he has done and look at the results. Lets say Garcia plays 2 more years that would give
McCown 5 years in the system and he will be ready to roll. He has a howitzer for an arm, good legs that can pick up 20-30 yards on the ground and from what I
saw doesn't make stupid decisions. Stick with McCown.

Chucky
12-09-2007, 08:58 PM
What do you guys think if one of the big 3 QB's fall to us. Should we take any that fall to us. Im thinking Brohm would be the top of the 3 and he is most likely to fall

Caddy
12-10-2007, 04:51 PM
What do you guys think if one of the big 3 QB's fall to us. Should we take any that fall to us. Im thinking Brohm would be the top of the 3 and he is most likely to fall

I think if Brohm falls to wherever the Buc's happen to be picking, you have to take a long hard think about selecting him. Of the top 3, he appears to be the best suited to the system. Depending on the other players on the board at the time, it might be difficult to pass on Brohm. As for Ryan and Woodson; both are great, but neither really look suited to the Buc's system and I doubt either fall anyway.

etk
12-10-2007, 10:09 PM
I think if Brohm falls to wherever the Buc's happen to be picking, you have to take a long hard think about selecting him. Of the top 3, he appears to be the best suited to the system. Depending on the other players on the board at the time, it might be difficult to pass on Brohm. As for Ryan and Woodson; both are great, but neither really look suited to the Buc's system and I doubt either fall anyway.

I think Ryan has the biggest chance of dropping because he's an overrated POS. Teams will notice this and he will return to his preseason draft positioning.

619
12-10-2007, 10:16 PM
I think Ryan has the biggest chance of dropping because he's an overrated POS. Teams will notice this and he will return to his preseason draft positioning.

Ryan arguably has the best intangibles amongst all QBs in this draft although ill admit he sometimes tries to squeeze in passes he shouldnt but its all part of his gunslinger mentality. To say hes overrated is a little bit out of line considering the very productive year he had for the most part despite the lack of talent he was surrounded with. Do I think hes the most NFL-ready QB? No, but that doesnt mean he wont be the most effective from the group in 2-3 years.

etk
12-10-2007, 10:52 PM
Ryan arguably has the best intangibles amongst all QBs in this draft although ill admit he sometimes tries to squeeze in passes he shouldnt but its all part of his gunslinger mentality. To say hes overrated is a little bit out of line considering the very productive year he had for the most part despite the lack of talent he was surrounded with. Do I think hes the most NFL-ready QB? No, but that doesnt mean he wont be the most effective from the group in 2-3 years.

What defines intangibles? Is that just a sucky excuse to explain why a QB is projected higher than he should be? His gunslinger mentality will get him benched in the NFL. He refuses to get rid of the ball or take a sack when he's pressured. His accuracy is also poor, especially across the middle. What defines productivity? His pass efficiency is 4.3 points higher than Kyle Wright's, and BC has much more weapons, better receivers and offensive line. Robinson, Gunnell, Challenger, Purvis, Callender, Whitworth, etc. He plays in a spread offense where all they do is pass, pass, pass. Of course he's gonna throw for a lot of yards, but 18 INTs is pretty concerning if you ask me.

619
12-10-2007, 10:55 PM
What defines intangibles? Is that just a sucky excuse to explain why a QB is projected higher than he should be? His gunslinger mentality will get him benched in the NFL. He refuses to get rid of the ball or take a sack when he's pressured. His accuracy is also poor, especially across the middle. What defines productivity? His pass efficiency is 4.3 points higher than Kyle Wright's, and BC has much more weapons, better receivers and offensive line. Robinson, Gunnell, Challenger, Purvis, Callender, Whitworth, etc. He plays in a spread offense where all they do is pass, pass, pass. Of course he's gonna throw for a lot of yards, but 18 INTs is pretty concerning if you ask me.

well when you throw the ball as much as almost anyone in the country it isnt too hard to throw that many INTs.

etk
12-10-2007, 11:00 PM
well when you throw the ball as much as almost anyone in the country it isnt too hard to throw that many INTs.

Brian Brohm plays in a similar offense yet his efficiency was almost 30 points higher with more TDs, less INTs and a better comp. %. Andre Woodson has even more TDs and even less INTs. The only reason Ryan is ranked ahead of the 2 is because he has a "bigger arm" and because draft analysts carry the motto "out with the old, in with the new".

Canadian_kid16
12-11-2007, 02:23 PM
Have I mentioned before that I'm a fan of picking Brennan ni round three...or even someone like Ainge too....that seems like the best option for me

etk
12-11-2007, 05:07 PM
Have I mentioned before that I'm a fan of picking Brennan ni round three...or even someone like Ainge too....that seems like the best option for me

Erik Ainge is not a good fit for us. He's a decent prospect for a standard offense but not a WCO. He's not accurate enough and he doesn't throw well to the outside. He telegraphs a lot of balls and delivers late too much of the time. I see him as a poor man's Chris Simms, and that's far from ideal.

Beans
12-11-2007, 08:26 PM
Brennan's my top choice. I think I already said that in here. I can't remember.

ks_perfection
12-11-2007, 08:47 PM
Brennan won't last till the bottom half of round 3, I doubt he'd last till the Bucs pick in the 2nd.

Canadian_kid16
12-11-2007, 08:52 PM
he should...I'm worried that some executives have him as his #2 rated QB, but I have a feeling he'll fall...its like an intuition...tkae that as you will :p

etk
12-11-2007, 09:24 PM
Colt will not last to our 2nd pick. Don't even dream about it, because it's not happening. He's the most mature QB in the draft and the most accurate. He has the most impressive tape and production. He also has June Jones on his side and Jones is pimpin' Colt to the league like you can't imagine. None of the other top QBs have that on their side. Last year Kevin Kolb went from relative unknown to shocking early 2nd rounder. Brennan is 3x the prospect Kolb ever was, although they share many similarities that I admire in QBs. What I'm noticing is too many of you rely on Scott or the rankings of other draft analysts instead of focussing your attention on understanding scouts and NFL personnel. I think Colt has a good shot at being the first QB selected in the draft, and I only think he will rise from this point on.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-11-2007, 10:01 PM
Colt will not last to our 2nd pick. Don't even dream about it, because it's not happening. He's the most mature QB in the draft and the most accurate. He has the most impressive tape and production. He also has June Jones on his side and Jones is pimpin' Colt to the league like you can't imagine. None of the other top QBs have that on their side. Last year Kevin Kolb went from relative unknown to shocking early 2nd rounder. Brennan is 3x the prospect Kolb ever was, although they share many similarities that I admire in QBs. What I'm noticing is too many of you rely on Scott or the rankings of other draft analysts instead of focussing your attention on understanding scouts and NFL personnel. I think Colt has a good shot at being the first QB selected in the draft, and I only think he will rise from this point on.

I still think Woodson is the 1st QB, because QBs with the physical tools are genuinely picked over the more mentally ready QBs. (Russell, Smith, Young, Leaf, etc.)