View Full Version : Shanahan MUST Glo

12-13-2007, 09:55 PM
when i say glo.. i mean go. we just got absolutely killed by our own scheme. kubiak, once shanny's apprentice, just showed shanny up. he is no longer effective anymore. if yards were points, we'd be fine. but they arent. and our defense blows. shanahan just showed right here that he can't even run his own scheme anymore

touchdown leach. no playoffs this year.

12-13-2007, 10:30 PM
I agree that it is time for fresh blood in Denver... but we both know that isn't going to happen.

As for the D... No pressure on the QB. No power. No toughness. ******* ****** tackling. Who wants to watch this crap?

The defense is so bad that it's demoralizing the offense. The shots of Cutler and Scheffler on the bench as the Texans were driving down the field captured that perfectly.

12-14-2007, 12:27 AM
I can't stand watching the Broncos anymore. We have all the elements of a mediocre team...

Bad tackling
Bad run defense (seriously, I don't think I saw a run stopped before the LS that whole game)
Bad coverage (mainly b/c the play action works so well against us)
Making FGs instead of TDs

12-14-2007, 12:48 AM
and wtF are we doing pooching a 53 yard field goal? is elam's leg REALLY that bloody weak now?

Well, taht pooch was sadly our best special teams play as it gave the Texans really bad field position (altho I believe we let the Texans drive up half the field anyway).

Our team obviously cannot survive unless we jump out to a large enough lead where the opposing team cannot afford to run. I was pretty damn excited last week w/our thumping of KC. Our offense was unbelievable as was our defense. Clearly, that was an aberration and not a harbinger of things to come. Unfortunately, this draft class is also pretty weak. I don't see any players that I truly want...

12-14-2007, 06:17 AM
i can hardly fault the offense, houston was in absolutely perfect position on a few plays, and really, it's tough to get offensive rhythm going when the other team is scoring at will.

our entire defense should be cut. abdullah's better than ferguson, but who cares? elway's ex-wife is probably better than ferguson. bly is, as detroit fans predicted, good for at least 5 bad beats per game. our d-line is a joke. our linebackers are even worse. and for some reason either bates won't ever blitz to create pressure or shanny won't let him. whichever one of those idiots is responsible should be curbed by bowlen in front of the team tomorrow morning. DJ was getting blown off the ball on nearly every run play (except when he was busy mis-reading it). ian gold would've missed the tackle had he even been in the stadium. dunno if he really needed a hot dog, but he seemed to vanish every time they ran the ball. webster can't do it alone, especially when the other teams realize he's the only person they have to actually block. champ needs to tell the team to go **** themselves, and just keep his receiver out of the game. because honestly, who cares? he's the only person on the field who can actually make a tackle. what difference if it's after 30 yards or 40 yards?

our special teams are likely the worst in nfl history, with the exception of our kickers, one of whom will be cut after beating up a taxi driver the other day (sauerbrun). glenn martinez is terrible. andre hall sucks. our kick return unit sucks. it looks like they're picking a local high school to suit up on kickoffs. i've never seen more guys consistently out of position, or getting blown up by blockers they should be running past easily.

whatever. if i were in charge, i'd sell out to get vilma, then spend the rest of the draft on DT and S.

all that said, i DON'T fault anyone who was blocking williams. the guy was ****ing dominant. too bad we wasted so many drafts on guys like nash, o'neal, middlebrooks, lelie and foster.

The offense was horrible. Lepsis and Pears SUCKED. And twice Mario got sacks when Sapp and Mustard were supposed to be blocking him. WTF IS UP WITH THAT?
We need OL help badly. Shell out for Vilma? NO THANKS. If we had some DT's/DE's who could play the run, it wouldn't be so bad. I'd rather shell out for Haynesworth.
Looks like we will have a top 10 pick too. I don't see us beating San Diego or Minnesota, falling to 6-10.

12-14-2007, 10:48 AM
i've come to the honest conclusion that you've never seen our team play. quick, name two plays our linebackers made yesterday. haynesworth isn't going anywhere (but hey, even if he was, don't let it bother you that he's only had a great season when his contract was on the line). vilma likely is. our linebackers, minus webster, are the worst in the league, bar none. our DEs are young, if you remember, we like, drafted a bunch last year and dumervil is only in his second season. but hey, we might as well bring in another sam adams. i like that plan. it's worked well for the last 5 years.

further, explain how lepsis and pears sucked. i HATE pears. more than anyone but ferguson and gold. but tell me any T's in the league who could've played well against mario last night. and then you expect sapp or mustard to get him 1v1? gosh. no wonder the guy hasn't had any sacks all year, it's apparently fairly easy to block him with a 3rd string TE or a bad excuse for a FB.

DJ Williams is really the only LB we have worth a damn IMO. I want Ian Gold cut so bad, and Nate Webster is backup material. Don't get me wrong, we need LB help, but have you seen ANY push from the DL? Nope, didn't think so.
I know we won't get Haynesworth, but that guy is dominant. At this point, we should look at signing Corey Williams from Green Bay, and looking at signing a backer in free agency along with drafting one. The front seven scares me though, and I hope we make the right moves in the offseason.

As for Lepsis and Pears, I think its obvious about Pears. On the play Mustard was blocking Mario, Pears was blocking NO ONE. Another time on a blitz, Pears blocked no one.
Lepsis got abused by Mario and just isn't that great of a LT. He has played at best average the whole year. Look at what going from an average LT to a good/great LT did for Cleveland. Give a QB some time and he'll make the throws and the running game will appear.

12-14-2007, 10:54 AM
I hope Denver fires him too.

Niners would welcome Shanny back with open arms. :)

12-14-2007, 11:26 AM
Holy crap the Broncos are below .500 for the first time in who knows how long, better fire the coach.

You realize that just a few years ago Shannahan took a Jake Plummer-led team to the AFC Championship game no?

12-14-2007, 01:09 PM
i've been saying it all year, webster should be playing MLB, DJ should be at WLB (the only LB position he's played well in denver) and gold should be serving someone french fries. webster's been the only guy capable of reading plays and getting into the backfield. he's not perfect, but he's better than anyone we'll get to replace him for now (be it at SLB or MLB, i think he could play either spot, depending on who's drafted).

Yeah, I at first thought that, but I think DJ has played a lot better since the start and we really needed to give him a full year at MLB.

i really don't want anything to do with a free agent DT. shanahan has been absolutely atrocious at signing them since around 1997. i mean, daryl gardener? blech. draft some guys from the 3rd round on (i don't buy the value at our spot in the 1st or 2nd clearly dependant on combine and who might fall a bit).

If we can get Dorsey, I'm all for not signing a DT. But I think we need to sign someone to start along side Marcus Thomas next year.

i don't think there's a LT in the league who could've played with mario yesterday. he was absolutely dominant. season long, lepsis clearly is looking old. we need someone ready to go. certain people think ryan harris is the guy (i'm unsold on him at LT, whatever anyone says). granted i'd rather build along the lines and go from there. but the top of the draft seems relatively strong in linebackers, and the back of the draft should be better for S and DT. if we can't grab a stud in the first, i'd rather give up the pick for someone who can help immediately (and given that vilma would fit in very well in our defense, i'd love to make that trade). if that's not possible, i agree, a trade down seems like the best option.

Vilma, I don't think he is that great. I do not want to give up a 1st round pick for him, his injuries scare me. I also don't think Ryan Harris will be the future LT, I would like to see him play RT though.

12-14-2007, 01:52 PM

i would settle absolutely for him losing his GM role. he's terrible at it. but it won't happen until he's completely gone. he's absolutely failed to draft well in nearly every draft since he's been here. not counting the last three years (can't judge TOO soon, and i'm even giving him a break on clarett), we have (by a quick count) 4 players left on the team out of 66 (from 1998-2004). that's horrible. i would be dumbfounded if any GM with a similar record still has his job. there's a reason we suck right now, and that's a HUGE part of it.

Drafting was HORRID up until the past few years. I don't even think we have one player from the 2002 or 2003 draft on the roster. Freakin pathetic.
Like you, I gave him a break on Clarett. That was a high risk situation that could've landed Denver a great RB, but Clarett showed he doesn't care.

12-14-2007, 05:18 PM
It's weird how things change around so quickly. Last season we had a defense that had allowed 1 TD thru 6 games? Our run defense was our strength (it was our third down pass defense that killed us). I had not expected such a dismal run defense. I fully expected a great season for our defense in general with the addition of Dre Bly and fatty Sam Adams to plug the middle. However, if we draft well, I don't think we should panic. While Shannahan slipped up bad this season, I honestly believe a few changes could put us back near the top next season... This is going to be long... forgive me!

While our D-Line has been horrible (it seems like they get manhandled every running play), we have to realize how young they are. Some of them are rookies. I think Mario Williams gives us hope... he was pretty bad last season, and while our young guys are not of Mario Williams caliber, they've got talent, and I think they will produce much better next season.

I really hope we can move DJ Williams back to the outside. I'd LOVE to get Laurenitis if he comes out in the draft. Not only does he have a cool name (sounds like a Spartan), his play on the field is that of a warrior. Clearly, we've been so dazzled by DJ Williams' athleticism the past couple years that we underappreciated Al Wilson's play and effort at the MLB position. I think Laurenitis could help fill that role if he comes out.

I also think Shannahan should look into special teams A LOT this off season. Special teams has actually been horrific for Denver for YEARS (aside from Elam). Now, with Elam aging, it's time to address the special teams in the off season. We really need a good special teams coverage unit. I hate seeing our opponent start on the 30+ every possession (and that Bears game was unforgivable). We should also look for a return specialist as we see how valuable it can be (and not just plug any 3rd string WR/DB). It's a shame we didn't take Crosby last year (seeing how he amazingly fell to he 6th round). Also, is it just me or does Sauerbrun suck at kick offs?

The O-Line, however, bothers me the MOST. Slowly, the players of the once dominant Denver Offensive line are aging and becoming injury prone and I don't really like the young players we're trying to replace them with. Our run offense really has diminished. It seems they play well when we have a lead (which hasn't been often), but under pressure situations for third and short, I just don't trust our running game anymore. I'm not completely sold on our RBs either. Henry looked good initially, but I don't know anymore... Selvin Young is a nice situational back, but he dances around WAY too much.

As for our DBs, I don't think there should be much concern. Baily has clearly been playing hurt all year. I think next season when he's back at full health, our pass defense should improve dramatically (assuming we do improve at the DL / LB positions). I think on defense, with so many young faces on the DL, with Al Wilson gone, with Darrent's death and Bly's arrival, we've just had major chemistry issues. I think next year we will see a gelled and matured defense. Other than Gold and Ferguson, most of the talent is there on defense.

To conclude, I look at our young stars and there IS hope after all. Cutler has shown me a lot. While he hasn't had huge stats other than a couple games, he's only played one full season now, and with him, I always feel like our offense could come back at any time (a complete opposite feeling I had when Plummer was our QB). I LOVE Marshall and Scheffler. They are going to be pro bowlers. What's more exciting is how they are just as young as Cutler. Our passing attack will be exciting. I hope Walker comes back at full health as he was definitely pro bowl caliber when healthy. Stokely is also one of the top slot receivers. In my opinion, he is just as good as Welker at that position and I think it'll help Cutler a lot. While we have some problems, I'd consider this season as a "growing pain" season. I think we see vast improvement next season.

12-15-2007, 07:58 AM
Okay, I don't get all the talk about replacing Elam. Not now. Sure, he can't routinely make the 50+ yarders of old, but the guy is still very good. He has been MONEY on the clutch kicks too.
Sure, I was intrigued by the likes of Crosby, but heck, look how Lawrence Tynes fared in KC. Not all these hot shots with big legs make it in the NFL.

12-15-2007, 01:05 PM
Holy crap the Broncos are below .500 for the first time in who knows how long, better fire the coach.

You realize that just a few years ago Shannahan took a Jake Plummer-led team to the AFC Championship game no?

Yeah, but past performance is only one component in the evaluation of a coach. This year, the lack of preparation and motivation has been brutally obvious in a number of the games, particularly big games where the team needed to step up (e.g. San Diego, Houston).

Who is responsible for that? If Shanny can't get the team ready to play, then get out of the way and let someone else take a shot.

If Shanahan stays, he needs to clean house. Dump the old geezers, bad attitudes and cripples. Rebuild through the draft and young FA's. Forget about "win now"... it isn't going to happen.

12-15-2007, 04:15 PM
I am concerned that we will draft OLB in first round and end up with Keith Rivers or Dan Connor. I just see the "pride of the coach" (polite way to say arrogance) keeping DJ inside.

LAURINAITIS will be a good fit in the first allowing DJ to go home to WLB.

I would like to see Phillips drafted by us playing for us for the next 6 years.

For those who keep saying they would like to see us get Dorsey, please put down the crack pipe and come back to reality, he will be gone in the first 3 picks. That is the problem, everyone wants Dorsey for their team.

I agree that Shanahan the GM has been killing the coach. The last few years have been kinder but . . . our overall draft track record is horrible.

I am pimping right how for Devin Thomas (Michigan State WR) in the 4th round. He plays like Marshall as in he blocks well downfield and loves to run against the grain and take on the contact . . . incidentially he also is a PR / KR player.

12-17-2007, 05:47 PM

wow, thats real surprising. rolls eyes

12-17-2007, 10:20 PM
i wouldnt mind a rebuilding season, unless we cut a lot of starters i think we can have a winning season next year. shanahan tries to patch up to much instead of getting franchise players. a 30 yr old high risk/reward corner is patching it, although i thought we were on track with d will. we need a mlb bad and vilma could take us from terrible to good-great with dj at wlb and webster at sam.

our d-line isn't the greatest but will improve over time. thomas crowder and dumervil are the only ones who have impressed me at all. i wouldnt be totally against a FA dt as long as theres not a huge risk like with adams...

our o-line needs rebuilding. im not sure how much longer nalen will play but hamilton should have a few more years in the tank. id love to draft a top caliber LT, move harris to RT, and then get a solid RG in free agents.

db's - id also like to see a speed corner good for returns taken in the 3rd/4th round, considering we address bigger needs prior to this (dt, mlb, ol) hopefully bailey will grow on him and he will mold into a solid corner like d will.

our offense is solid for a long time. cutler is one of the top 10 qbs in the league. henry and young are capable of having big games, we need to stick with one and build some chemistry. marshall, walker, and stokley may be the best trio in the league next to the pats and bengals wr corps. tony scheff should be starting as daniel graham is overpayed decent run blocker.

12-18-2007, 03:02 PM
we have many, many issues that need to be addressed over the offseason. what to do with javon walker? if he truly doesn't have a chance to fully recover and still wont except a pay cut, he's done here. hopefully this isnt the case because it creates a big opening at wide receiver that will have to be dealt with and that's the last thing we need with all or other problems.

a few of the veterans should hang 'em up such as nalen, smith, and rod. i wouldn't be surprised if one or two returned as a coach, a position where they can still contribute with out taking up roster spots. hamilton and lepsis may also be done. players that we need to cut/trade include ian gold, travis henry, and possibly javon which i already dicussed.

as far as the draft and free agency goes, we have a lot of possibilities facing us. i would absolutely piss my pants if we drafted philips in the first and managed to trade up to get felix jones in the second, but this seems like wishful thinking. we need a star player for our defensive front seven, a guy who can make an impact right away. some ideas here would be shaun rogers or jonathan vilma.

if none of what i mentioned plays out, than there is still reason for hope. cutler looks to the future of this team and the numbers he's been able to put up in his first two seasons are spectacular when compared to past quarterback greats like Elway.

12-20-2007, 03:59 PM
Really, we are in good shape money wise. We'll probably cut/restructure guys and be at least $20 mil under the cap when free agency hits.
I really think we need to look at addressing OT/LB/DT/S in the draft. I'd prefer to go OT/LB in round 1 and then take best available from there on out.

12-20-2007, 07:47 PM
out of curiousity... if available, does anyone NOT agree with taking laurenitis first?

I do. That is, disagree. I think DJ is playing great at MLB. He is tied for 1st in the AFC in tackles, playing in front of a porous D-line. Speaking of porous D-line, boy wouldn't a big NT to plug the middle be nice? Of course it would. Frank Okam, come on down. Maybe not where we are picking currently in the 1st, but trade down 10 spots or so (like Carolina did with Beason), and voila! Pick up Okam plus additional draft picks. DJ will only get better with more experience in Bates scheme as well as a better supporting cast. He is developing a killer instinct out there too, dealing some big hits as well as becoming a more intense and vocal leader.

Also, I think Laurinaitis is a little overrated. Good, yes. Elite MLB prospect? Not quite. I've seen him get engulfed by O-linemen quite a bit. Just like DJ has been at times (thanks to the porous D-line). Bottom line is, Laurinaitis would not be an upgrade over him at MIKE. Besides, I bet he stays in school anyway.

If we stay where we are, I'd hope Kenny Phillips falls to us. He would shore up our secondary, and help cover those TEs that have burned us at crucial times in certain games this season. He could improve both our coverage and run support dramatically.

12-21-2007, 07:57 PM
i love dj to death and hes racked up 139 tackles (granted some were farther downfield then they should be) but i think weve unanimously agreed he belongs outside. i think he could play a lot better than mediocre at mlb if we had a solid d line. i think it would be a good idea to put him outside, he can keep up with guys like gates and gonzales twice a year

12-21-2007, 09:56 PM
ok, conversely, who here thinks DJ has been anything better than mediocre at MLB this season?

i'm not trying to pick on anyone.

*raises hand*

I think he's been slightly above mediocre this season, and will only get better if he gets a big and talented anchor in front of him at NT and a better pair of LBs flanking him.

12-22-2007, 11:52 AM
*raises hand*

I think he's been slightly above mediocre this season, and will only get better if he gets a big and talented anchor in front of him at NT and a better pair of LBs flanking him.

albert haynseworth eh eh eh *nudge nudge*

12-23-2007, 07:08 AM
go dj thats my dj
I'm a big fan of his and I think he has adjusted to the position as of late. You can see some progress. Enough that I would be satisfied with going DT instead of LB in the first round.

12-23-2007, 07:59 AM
ok, conversely, who here thinks DJ has been anything better than mediocre at MLB this season?

i'm not trying to pick on anyone.

to tell you the truth, i wouldn't know how to tell you
i mean i don't ever focus on him once the play starts, usually looking at the d-line, and what coverage were running, but once the play is over ive been hearing DJ's name called a lot so i assumed he was playing well... im not trying to subject myself to getting blasted, but im just curious... why is he playing poorly... and can any of that be projected onto a **** DL? i know tackles aren't everything, i just think he is the one guy besides champ that is actually wrapping the **** up this year (quick shout out to ian gold... ian, **** YOU)

12-24-2007, 10:30 PM
any remaining manhood we had left just got shredded to pieces.

dear lord that was brutal

12-24-2007, 10:44 PM
Well, Gold and Webster need to go. Gold's just lost it. He used to be outstanding, but his time has come and gone. Webster will make a play or two, but makes so many assignment errors it's ridiculous. Maybe a move back to MLB would help. Maybe.

I agree that DJ is the best on the weakside as well, but is above average in the middle. I could see him staying in the middle if we can't find a better option. Weakside is the easiest to replace.

Ideally, we get Phillips/Rivers/Connor in the first. If we can nab Phillips, then I'd love to see someone like Beau Bell or Tavares Gooden in the second. Both could play either SLB or MLB.

I know Scott mentioned Rivers could possibly play inside here. That could be interesting, and would allow DJ to move back to the WLB spot. Then we'd only need an upgrade at SLB.

Secondly, Holland and Pears are aweful. Lepsis is a the end of the line as well. If Nalen and Hamilton come back, then the interior of the line should be fine. Hopefully Harris is ready to step in at LT or RT by next year.

Third, I really hope Lynch retires. Abdullah is a good SS in the making, but we really need a playmaking FS back there. Lynch offers zero in coverage, and in facts hurts us quite a bit back there.

And yes, we could upgrade use some more talent at DT, but that's not as big of a need as LB/S/OT.

And anyone who thinks Shanahan should be gone needs to check themselves. Where would we get a better coach?

12-25-2007, 07:20 PM
who cares, my dog could've called better goalline plays. a fullback dive, into the best player on san diego's defense, twice in a row? high school coaches could've called a better game. shanny needs a serious reality check.

My point is this. If he goes, then who do we get to become coach? Someone better? I don't think so.

Did I like the FB dive twice? No, but we wouldn't have won the game even if we had scored there.

There is no question the line needs to be upgraded, particularly Holland and Pears. Shanahan has even admitted so. I really don't think we can afford to let Hamilton go. Whether or not Nalen comes back, the interior of the line would be good with Hamilton, Myers, Kuper, and possibly Nalen. Hopefully Harris will progress enough to play one of the tackle spots.

12-26-2007, 03:08 PM
There are some serious questions about Harris' back. He had surgery before his senior year, and one reason why he didn't play well, and he had surgery again this year. I don't know if we can rely on him.

Holland has been our best o-lineman this year, so I don't understand the problem people have with him.

And Rivers at MLB? Please...the kid is 220 pounds. Our LB's can't get off blocks as it is, we don't need an Ian Gold at MLB as well.

O-line and D-line should be the focus of this team. Having good units up front can make up for a lot of deficiencies in other areas. It's common sense football. It all starts up front and as even the idiotic announcers Monday night observed...the broncos lines are horrible.

12-26-2007, 03:14 PM
to the above:

DJ's first step is almost always backwards. this is a MAJOR nono at linebacker, no matter how crappy your line is. he regularly mis-reads the run and ends up making the tackle 5 yards after the play. i forget when i did it, but several weeks ago, i counted his tackles over 2 or 3 games. 80%+ were after a gain of at least 5 yards. that's absolutely pathetic, and insofar as i've seen him, is due mostly to having essentially no instincts at the position. i plan to, as much as i can, count the plays again tonight where he makes an awful read that has nothing to do with the line. to be fair, i'll try to count plays where he's getting drilled by a lineman immediately.

on the other hand, when a lineman DOES get through (which, face it, is going to happen), DJ is atrocious at getting off a block. once the back has gotten by him, he's been excellent at catching up to him. but really, is that the best use of his athleticism?

ian gold is obviously awful, but if it were entirely on our d-line, why is nate webster playing so well? why is he regularly disrupting plays in the backfield and why is he the ONLY guy making the big third down stops recently? imo, it's because he's actually the only guy at linebacker playing at the proper position.

DJ should move back to will, where he unarguably had by far his best season so far in denver. he's a perfect fit at the spot. he's athletic enough to cover TEs, and it frees him up from having to shed blocks and diagnose plays (2 things he demonstratably bad at). could he get better at MLB? sure. eventually. and he has gotten better this year. but progressing from literally one of the worst linebackers in the NFL to simply mediocre hardly strikes me as a big checkmark next to the position.

further, what DT do you guys think will actually be available when we draft who's worth getting? sed ellis doesn't help DJ. okam, at this point, would be an epic reach.

keep in mind a couple of major things:

1) i love DJ, just not at MLB.
2) i don't disagree with the need for another DT or two. i just disagree with taking one in the first.
3) in either case, i have no interest whatsoever in signing another "sam adams", i'd rather spend a couple of more years being mediocre than take a risk with yet another worthless journeyman (i'm also not interested at all in haynesworth, unless he only signs a one year deal or it's HEAVILY weighted with performance incentives).

DJ did take a step back initially, but he has been getting better lately. He still has room for improvement. Putting him back at WLB would be ideal, but finding a SLB and MLB in one offseason are difficult. I think it would be easier to find a SLB and WLB. But if it can be done then go ahead. Problem is that there are no MLB available in FA (that are better anyway) and the draft class is weak at MLB. I say target Dansby or Briggs and then get Beau in the draft who IMO is underrated.

Corey Williams from GB would be a great addition IMO at DT. We should still spend a first day pick on another DT though. A combo of Williams, Thomas, McKinny, rookie would be an improvement over this year. People love Okam's measure ables, but I question his desire and mental toughness.

12-26-2007, 04:11 PM
Another LB we should look at in the draft is Jonathan Goff.

12-27-2007, 03:12 PM
just on a sidenote: that was, hands down, the worst announcing i can ever remember in a football game. they consistently mis-called things that were happening and failed to notice fairly obvious breakdowns/flaws.

tony kornheiser is the worst monday night analyst, EVER.

12-27-2007, 03:51 PM
tony kornheiser is the worst monday night analyst, EVER.

Ummmm....Dennis Miller?

12-27-2007, 04:16 PM
just on a sidenote: that was, hands down, the worst announcing i can ever remember in a football game. they consistently mis-called things that were happening and failed to notice fairly obvious breakdowns/flaws.

I agree, and ironically it fits considering how we played.

12-27-2007, 04:16 PM
Ummmm....Dennis Miller?

at least he was funny occasionally. Kornhole contributes absolutely nothing.