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Scotty D
12-19-2007, 01:07 PM
Right now we are slated to pick at lucky 13. Technically we could jump up into the 5-10 area, but it would be a long shot.

Basically I made this thread to get everyone's views on what position we should spend our first pick on. After you choose a position say what guy you would like.

I'm torn between a top LT and a CB. LT I would go with Clady or Baker and CB I like both Jenkins.

Xiomera
12-19-2007, 01:44 PM
1. Lt
2. Cb
3. Mlb
4. De

WMD
12-19-2007, 02:18 PM
DE - Chris Long, Calais Campbell, or Vernon Gholston.

I would love to get Calais..

Michigan
12-19-2007, 02:22 PM
1. Cb
2. Lt
3. Lb

Maybe Next Year Millen2
12-19-2007, 02:40 PM
1) Malcom Jenkins
2) Sam Baker
3) Clady
4) Mike Jenkins

Bucky
12-19-2007, 03:36 PM
DE - Chris Long, Calais Campbell, or Vernon Gholston.

I would love to get Calais..

I completely agree. We should be in a position to land one of the top 3 DE's in the draft. Last season we were supposedly in love with Gaines Adams, and i don't see IAF becoming a stud anytime soon. For the Cover 2 to work best we need to have consistent pressure from our front 4, and we aren't getting any play out of our RDE. Kalimba, who was supposed to be Rods project, was a healthy scratch because he is playing soo poorly. You can find zone corners in the later rounds, but I don't think we can pass on a stud DE.

Scotty D
12-19-2007, 03:40 PM
Calais has great size and potential, but his down season this year worries me a ton. I'd rather have a guy like Gholston.

Brodeur
12-19-2007, 07:59 PM
I really think we need a MLB first and foremost because if I have to watch Paris Lenon for another year I'm going to go insane.

Scotty D
12-19-2007, 08:26 PM
Anybody think about the top three QBs?

detroit4life
12-19-2007, 10:16 PM
CB or DE watching the past few games and how terrible our defense is sickens me. Id love gholston cambell or a top cb to be added with this pick

WMD
12-20-2007, 12:04 AM
I completely agree. We should be in a position to land one of the top 3 DE's in the draft. Last season we were supposedly in love with Gaines Adams, and i don't see IAF becoming a stud anytime soon. For the Cover 2 to work best we need to have consistent pressure from our front 4, and we aren't getting any play out of our RDE. Kalimba, who was supposed to be Rods project, was a healthy scratch because he is playing soo poorly. You can find zone corners in the later rounds, but I don't think we can pass on a stud DE.

I think IAF's future with us is at DT.

As far as DE goes, I think a D-Line guy like Marinelli would have a field day coaching somebody with Calais Campbell's size and measurables.

Xiomera
12-20-2007, 09:49 AM
Anybody think about the top three QBs?

I'd take any of them but Woodson.

Iamcanadian
12-20-2007, 10:03 AM
I completely agree. We should be in a position to land one of the top 3 DE's in the draft. Last season we were supposedly in love with Gaines Adams, and i don't see IAF becoming a stud anytime soon. For the Cover 2 to work best we need to have consistent pressure from our front 4, and we aren't getting any play out of our RDE. Kalimba, who was supposed to be Rods project, was a healthy scratch because he is playing soo poorly. You can find zone corners in the later rounds, but I don't think we can pass on a stud DE.

I agree but I don't think Cailis is the guy for a Cover 2 defense. Gholston would be ideal but we won't get a shot at him. Derrick Harvey or Quentin Groves would be second alternatives. IAF could be used to replace Rogers as I think he will play DT in a Cover 2.
Of course, we are talking about Millen drafting so bloody anything is possible from that idiot.

Addict
12-20-2007, 03:38 PM
why is WR not an option?

WMD
12-20-2007, 04:01 PM
I'd take any of them but Woodson.

Strange, Woodson is the only one I'd take out of all 3... if I had to pick one.

Bucky
12-20-2007, 04:13 PM
why is WR not an option?

How original

Scotty D
12-20-2007, 08:06 PM
Strange, Woodson is the only one I'd take out of all 3... if I had to pick one.

Same here, I like Woodson over the other guys.

P-L
12-20-2007, 08:21 PM
I just hope we don't take George Fost... Sorry, I mean Jeff Otah.

Addict
12-21-2007, 09:48 AM
How original

talk to the hand.

Prowler
12-21-2007, 02:41 PM
i'm with iamcanadian with vernon gholston. calais doesn't really fit well on the lions, it'd be like just moving corey redding back to de when we need a qb sacking machine. the most likely scenario i see is picking up the quality mlb, i think we can pass on corners in the first round since i'd prefer bigger more physical corners than the usual speed demons. and it doesn't matter who we have on the oline, they'll underachieve because martz doesn't care about the position and just assumes that they'll always provide a pocket for 6 seconds every snap. ultimately i'd rather trade down about 8 spots and pick up more day one picks.

Bucky
12-21-2007, 11:14 PM
i'm with iamcanadian with vernon gholston. calais doesn't really fit well on the lions, it'd be like just moving corey redding back to de when we need a qb sacking machine. the most likely scenario i see is picking up the quality mlb, i think we can pass on corners in the first round since i'd prefer bigger more physical corners than the usual speed demons. and it doesn't matter who we have on the oline, they'll underachieve because martz doesn't care about the position and just assumes that they'll always provide a pocket for 6 seconds every snap. ultimately i'd rather trade down about 8 spots and pick up more day one picks.

Did you just compare Cory Redding to Calais Campbell?

TacticaLion
12-23-2007, 02:52 PM
I want a stud MLB.

(Speaking of MLB, remember how I had such a man-crush on Willis? Yeah... many questioned how dominant he'd be at the pro level... imagine having him next to Sims on the defense. Sick.)

detroit4life
12-23-2007, 03:17 PM
I want a stud MLB.

(Speaking of MLB, remember how I had such a man-crush on Willis? Yeah... many questioned how dominant he'd be at the pro level... imagine having him next to Sims on the defense. Sick.)

yes i do and many other ppl wanted him as well it was just too big of a reach at 2

Scotty D
12-23-2007, 03:21 PM
Why do you guys want a MLB? Didn't you Paris today? ;)

TacticaLion
12-23-2007, 03:45 PM
Why do you guys want a MLB? Didn't you Paris today? ;)

He actually made a football play today... I was impressed. I kinda expected him to catch it, put it down and kick it to the other team's OLinemen... but he just decided to run with it. A bit shocking.

To be honest, Lenon has decent speed and makes the occasional play... I really can't stand Bailey, though. If we drafted an incredible SLB and had Rookie-Lenon-Sims, I'd be fine with that. It's often said that you can get away with an average player at SLB in the Cover 2 (and it's true), but having a stud there couldn't hurt.

detap21
12-23-2007, 10:41 PM
I like Lenon but I think that we need a new MLB. If we could get Laurinaitis that would be excellent. Sims - Laurinaitis - Bailey. I think that would be a good linebacker team.

Iamcanadian
12-26-2007, 12:21 AM
Well I have no problem with the coaches. Millen built this team to win 6 to 8 games so he could claim he is improving and perhaps get another longer extension from Ford. There is no way in h-ll, he will replace Martz who delivered what Millen wanted.

QB:
Kitna is holding this offense back not Martz IMO. He simply isn't good enough to produce more than 8 wins in a season. Until we find a solid QB, our offense will be very limited no matter how much talent surrounds him.
As for Stanton, round 2 QB's in the last 15 years have a 3% chance at success. Those are odds which don't look too promising for our future at the position.

RB:
Hopefully Jones will be OK but you never know. We need to keep Duckett and find another veteran to support the position.

OL:
Our OL is a lot better than people think. Kitna isn't mobile and throws an incredible # of passes. Defenses simply tee off on our OL ignoring the run. Even with Orlando Pace, Martz's offense always gives up 40+ sacks but with Kitna at QB, 50+ is always possible, so blaming the OL is ridiculous. When we come out running the OL is much more effective as the defense cannot just tee off expecting a pass.
This offense IMO, requires a mobile QB to work effectively.

WR: Obviously a team strength!

TE:
Not an important position in Martz's offense but it could be improved.

DL:
A disaster area on the Lions especially for a Cover 2 team. Rogers needs to be either traded or just dumped. Where is that so called Marinelli 'type player'. Funny how it disappears for a guy has talent. However, Rogers will never be a star again playing for Detroit. He has caught that Detroit disease that our good players seem to catch. In this joke of an organization with absolutely no commitment to winning, why bother putting out the effort.
White and Redding aren't All-Stars but they are good enough to be effective in a Cover 2 defense but another DT(hopefully IAF) and a real stud DE, for this defense to be effective, somebody who can rack up 10+ sacks every year.
Until we find that star DE, this defense will continue to stink.

LB's:
Outside of Sims, we need help especially at MLB. However, as much as we need a MLB, we need a DE more and it must never be forgotten that the DL is what makes or brakes a Cover 2 defense.
a better SLB would be nice as well.

DB:
Hard to really tell if this is the priority people think. If the DL puts on an intense pass rush, our LB's and DB's would have a lot less pressure on them to sustain their coverage. The zone defense used in a Cover 2 scheme cannot work if no intense pass rush is applied. Zone defenses given time, can be picked apart by QB's and WR's with little problem. Indy, Tampa and Chicago all apply that kind of pass rush which limits the QB's time to see the weaknesses in the zone defense.
There is no doubt that our CB's can improve their play and even be upgraded, but again without an intense pass rush, all the star DB's in the NFL would have trouble playing in a Cover 2.

Our priority in the draft has to be DE especially in a draft where so many DE's suit a Cover 2 defense. Gholston, Harvey, Groves and a few others look to be guys who can be sack artists in a Cover 2 defense and we MUST get one or we'll see a defense for Detroit next year that is the same sieve it was this year.
Of course, I would love it if Millen was fired but that is unlikely to happen, in fact we might be stuck with him for another decade.
If we are ever going to be a playoff team, our priorities with our current schemes on offense and defense require a far better QB and a sack artist DE. Take your choice!!! As long as those positions remain as problems, the Lions will never see the playoffs.

TitleTown088
12-26-2007, 06:53 PM
General Manager.

detroit4life
12-26-2007, 11:52 PM
Well I have no problem with the coaches. Millen built this team to win 6 to 8 games so he could claim he is improving and perhaps get another longer extension from Ford. There is no way in h-ll, he will replace Martz who delivered what Millen wanted.

QB:
Kitna is holding this offense back not Martz IMO. He simply isn't good enough to produce more than 8 wins in a season. Until we find a solid QB, our offense will be very limited no matter how much talent surrounds him.
As for Stanton, round 2 QB's in the last 15 years have a 3% chance at success. Those are odds which don't look too promising for our future at the position.

RB:
Hopefully Jones will be OK but you never know. We need to keep Duckett and find another veteran to support the position.

OL:
Our OL is a lot better than people think. Kitna isn't mobile and throws an incredible # of passes. Defenses simply tee off on our OL ignoring the run. Even with Orlando Pace, Martz's offense always gives up 40+ sacks but with Kitna at QB, 50+ is always possible, so blaming the OL is ridiculous. When we come out running the OL is much more effective as the defense cannot just tee off expecting a pass.
This offense IMO, requires a mobile QB to work effectively.

WR: Obviously a team strength!

TE:
Not an important position in Martz's offense but it could be improved.

DL:
A disaster area on the Lions especially for a Cover 2 team. Rogers needs to be either traded or just dumped. Where is that so called Marinelli 'type player'. Funny how it disappears for a guy has talent. However, Rogers will never be a star again playing for Detroit. He has caught that Detroit disease that our good players seem to catch. In this joke of an organization with absolutely no commitment to winning, why bother putting out the effort.
White and Redding aren't All-Stars but they are good enough to be effective in a Cover 2 defense but another DT(hopefully IAF) and a real stud DE, for this defense to be effective, somebody who can rack up 10+ sacks every year.
Until we find that star DE, this defense will continue to stink.

LB's:
Outside of Sims, we need help especially at MLB. However, as much as we need a MLB, we need a DE more and it must never be forgotten that the DL is what makes or brakes a Cover 2 defense.
a better SLB would be nice as well.

DB:
Hard to really tell if this is the priority people think. If the DL puts on an intense pass rush, our LB's and DB's would have a lot less pressure on them to sustain their coverage. The zone defense used in a Cover 2 scheme cannot work if no intense pass rush is applied. Zone defenses given time, can be picked apart by QB's and WR's with little problem. Indy, Tampa and Chicago all apply that kind of pass rush which limits the QB's time to see the weaknesses in the zone defense.
There is no doubt that our CB's can improve their play and even be upgraded, but again without an intense pass rush, all the star DB's in the NFL would have trouble playing in a Cover 2.

Our priority in the draft has to be DE especially in a draft where so many DE's suit a Cover 2 defense. Gholston, Harvey, Groves and a few others look to be guys who can be sack artists in a Cover 2 defense and we MUST get one or we'll see a defense for Detroit next year that is the same sieve it was this year.
Of course, I would love it if Millen was fired but that is unlikely to happen, in fact we might be stuck with him for another decade.
If we are ever going to be a playoff team, our priorities with our current schemes on offense and defense require a far better QB and a sack artist DE. Take your choice!!! As long as those positions remain as problems, the Lions will never see the playoffs.

i completely agree with you on most to all points. Kitna is absolutly holding this offense back he cannot spread the ball around and he cannot make the difficult throws.

DE is a huge need and hopefully we can get a guy like gholston to fill that need. We need more then a situational pass rusher we need an every down pass rusher who can get to the QB but also play the run.

DB is still a need and i do not believe we should ignore it just on the basis of hoping that if we improve our Dline we will automatically get better play from our CBs. We wont our CBs suck and that is on them we cant take their failures and put them somewhere else.

Oline is alright. not great but not terrible. If they can keep woody and start him ant RT they'll be fine. There was a great difference when he started playing there. Simply enough other then that only way to improve the line is to move backus away from LT and thats financially impossible right now.

LB is a mess but we just need to add one new starter to our coprs and we'll be fine sims just needs some help.

Our order should go
DE
CB
LB


cb and lb can be interchangeable but i think thers so much depth at CB this year we could get some great value in round 2. It would be best if we could get a starter via FA or Trade rather then drafting a rookie. A veteran would be a good thing at that position because or defense is starting to look pretty young.

Whitebull
12-27-2007, 09:56 AM
I'm glad to see more people preaching pass-rusher. It's pathetic that there was only one vote for DE.

A rookie CB with our pass-rush? We'd be better off donating the money to charity.

Our pass-rush is as bad as our secondary. Adding a CB would help one portion of the secondary, cover 1 opposing receiver. Adding a pass-rush helps the entire pass defense.

Drafting DBs to improve the pass defense is like drafting RBs/WRs to improve the offense, and we've seen how that works. The OL (and QB) affects the entire offense, the DL affects the entire defense. You get the most mileage from upgrading the lines first. Once they are set, then you add the periphery players.

Vernon Gholston would be the best thing to happen to this team since Barry Sanders.

TacticaLion
12-27-2007, 11:52 AM
A pure pass-rusher can be found later in the draft... if you could grab such a player in round 2 and an incredible MLB in round 1, wouldn't the team be better off? I'd say the talent at DE is much deeper than the talent at MLB for this draft... which is why I'd like to see us find a pass-rusher in round 2.

Iamcanadian
12-28-2007, 03:38 PM
A pure pass-rusher can be found later in the draft... if you could grab such a player in round 2 and an incredible MLB in round 1, wouldn't the team be better off? I'd say the talent at DE is much deeper than the talent at MLB for this draft... which is why I'd like to see us find a pass-rusher in round 2.

With Millen running our draft, speaking of finding talent past round 1 gets pretty shaky. I have absolutely no faith in his ability to asses talent and to find a gem later in the draft, round 1 gives him enough problems.
Tampa Bay took Adams last year and they are back in the playoffs. Every team that plays a Cover 2 has a star DE and I just don't think we can take a chance on Millen's drafting to find one later in the draft.

detroit4life
12-28-2007, 03:45 PM
With Millen running our draft, speaking of finding talent past round 1 gets pretty shaky. I have absolutely no faith in his ability to asses talent and to find a gem later in the draft, round 1 gives him enough problems.
Tampa Bay took Adams last year and they are back in the playoffs. Every team that plays a Cover 2 has a star DE and I just don't think we can take a chance on Millen's drafting to find one later in the draft.

i agree i think they need to get a DE in round one this year its huge for this defense and there is some good talent at DE available in round one. If they fail to get a good DE we will only be able to improve this defense so much becasue we will be ignoring the biggest position on our defense.

TacticaLion
12-28-2007, 08:28 PM
With Millen running our draft, speaking of finding talent past round 1 gets pretty shaky. I have absolutely no faith in his ability to asses talent and to find a gem later in the draft, round 1 gives him enough problems.
Tampa Bay took Adams last year and they are back in the playoffs. Every team that plays a Cover 2 has a star DE and I just don't think we can take a chance on Millen's drafting to find one later in the draft.Oh come on...

Tampa isn't back in the playoffs because of Adams... Jeff Garcia (and that weak division) are the main reasons the Bucs have a shot at the playoffs. That's like suggesting that we lost 8 games because we drafted CJ... it's a team sport and there are many reasons for success/failure.

I don't care how you feel about Millen and his past drafts... it doesn't mean we should reach with our first round pick. What about Gerald Alexander? He was a complete reach at the time, but has played great this year and seems to be our starter for years to come.

Don't worry, though... I don't expect you to give Millen (or Marinelli assisting him) the credit he (they) deserve.