PDA

View Full Version : Safeties


foozball
12-19-2007, 02:17 PM
This class of safeties is pretty weak. With only Kenny Phillips as the only true safety being 1st round worthy. Several CB's like Malcolm Jenkins and Reggie Smith have some experience at safety, which could improve their stock due to the weak class of safeties. Charles Godfrey could also sneak into the 2nd round as a FS. Who else could legitimately move over to safety?

urinemonkey
12-19-2007, 03:04 PM
Simeon Castille
Terrell Thomas
Zack Bowman

I think those 3 are also legitimate free safety prospects as well as corners.

Turtlepower
12-19-2007, 03:06 PM
I think that if Nic Harris declares, he is definitely worth a first round grade. That kid is a straight up balla.

scottyboy
12-19-2007, 03:07 PM
Courtney Greene is a better NFL safety prospect than Kenny Philips. mark it down.

thule
12-19-2007, 03:09 PM
Another stupid thread...that has been exhausted by foozball. How many times are you going to try to move a corner with size to the safety position. Ok....we know your team needs a Safety....but this is really annoying.

foozball
12-19-2007, 04:55 PM
Another stupid thread...that has been exhausted by foozball. How many times are you going to try to move a corner with size to the safety position. Ok....we know your team needs a Safety....but this is really annoying.

ahhh!!! the nfldraftcountdown.com message board nazi! quit trying to censor me. it's not that hard to just ignore my posts. i don't force you to read them.

YAYareaRB
12-19-2007, 06:01 PM
Courtney Greene is a better NFL safety prospect than Kenny Philips. mark it down.


No Homer? How can you make such claims? please elaborate..

DiG
12-19-2007, 06:03 PM
im gonna have to agree with the nic harris comment. he could move up boards fast with a good workout.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-19-2007, 06:13 PM
Whos the best SS in this years draft?

scottyboy
12-19-2007, 06:13 PM
No Homer? How can you make such claims? please elaborate..

Philips doesnt seem to go 100% on every play. I'll admit, I havent watched him enough, but from what I've seen, Greene will surprise tons of people if he enters with his workouts

Turtlepower
12-19-2007, 06:13 PM
Whos the best SS in this years draft?

I would say the nod goes to Nic Harris. =D

Travis 24
12-19-2007, 08:33 PM
Courtney Greene is better all around, and more active player than Phillips.

Smokey Joe
12-19-2007, 08:42 PM
Tyrell Johnson, if he has a good workout, I could see him being the third safety taken, or second if Reggie Smith doesn't declare... I could also see Craig Steltz sneaking into th 2nd round as well if he times well.

Big_Pete
12-20-2007, 04:27 AM
what about William Moore, Missouri??

he can play SS or FS

He is listed at 6-2, 205 and has a 40 time around 4.48

He has had a great season:

13 GP, 104 Tackles (63 solo, 41 assists), 9.0 TFL (42yds), 2.0 sack (21 yds), 7 Int (35 yds), 5 BrUp, 2 QBH, 1 FF

Don Vito
12-20-2007, 06:14 AM
what about William Moore, Missouri??

he can play SS or FS

He is listed at 6-2, 205 and has a 40 time around 4.48

He has had a great season:

13 GP, 104 Tackles (63 solo, 41 assists), 9.0 TFL (42yds), 2.0 sack (21 yds), 7 Int (35 yds), 5 BrUp, 2 QBH, 1 FF

Moore's only a junior but he's pretty good, I think he is definitely a SS in the NFL. I don't think he is a sub 4.5 forty guy, he is a very good athlete but he does not look incredibly fast on the field. 40's are over-rated to an extent anyways and regardless, he is a very good player who would be a first rounder if he came out due to the lack of safeties in this class.

This class could be decent if some juniors other than KP declare, there are a lot of versatile guys who can be moved all over the secondary. If guys like Courtney Greense, Moore, and Nic Harris stay in school this could potentially be the worst safety class on paper in a while. I would rank this safety class with juniors who may come out like this-

1. Kenny Phillips* Miami 6-1 210 Been the clearcut #1 probably since his freshman year, can play both spots and possibly some corner. He has all of the measurables and intangibles, but as some have pointed out he can take plays off. Phillips always stands out when you watch the Canes play, he is the heart of that defense and could be the next great safety from the U.

2a. Courtney Greene* Rutgers 6-1 205 Greene is one of the more underrated eligible prospects in the land, if he comes out he could very well go in the first. Greene always seems to be around the ball making plays. He could play both safety spots. His triangle numbers will probably not jump out at you, but Greene is a football player who can do it all.

2b. William Moore* Mizzou 6-1 210 Had a huge 2007, is a great athlete who could sneak into round 1 with a good combine. Good looking SS prospect, can play in the box, catch, make plays, and tackle. Kind of burst onto the scene this season, if he stays in school and has another great year he would probably help himself out.

4. Nic Harris* Oklahoma 6-3 225 Huge SS with great athleticism, solid NFL prospect who can hit and make plays. Harris is another guy who is a fringe round 1 prospect, but I see Harris going in the second if he comes out. He is definitely a guy who's stock would skyrocket with good workouts.

5. Craig Steltz LSU 6-2 205 Really took over the LSU secondary with Laron Landry gone, made some big plays this year but also disappeared in some games and also missed quite a few tackles. Steltz put up some good numbers this year, but take his stats with a grain of salt because he would be a nonfactor for a few games then pick of 2 or 3 balls another week. The combine will be big for Steltz, I'm not too sold on him.

6. Josh Barrett ASU 6-2 230 Barret has all of the tools to be a great NFL safety, he will tear up the combine. He is big, strong, and can run. Had a great career at ASU, has the skillset to be able to play both safety spots but I like him at FS in the NFL. Not saying he's Sean Taylor as a player, but his size and speed combo is off the charts.

7. Jonathan Hefney Tenn 5-9 190 Hefney stock has slipped a lot since this season started, I saw him as a late 1st rounder in the pre-season but now it looks he will last to maybe the 3rd. He is undersized, but he is a leader and very fast. One of the few straight up FS prospects in this class, but Hefney is another guy who has disappeared in games, not to sure about Hefney.

8. Thomas DeCoud Cal 6-1 205 I only saw DeCoud play twice this year but he looked good, he is another guy who can play both safety spots and some corner. DeCoud looked like a very smooth athlete and polished player, I don't know how his workouts will go but he looked like he could be an NFL safety when I watched him.

9. Jamar Adams Michigan 6-2 210 Adams was inconsistent at Michigan, but he is an impressive athlete with some size. All it takes is a good showing in Indy to see your stock shoot up through the roof. He has all of the talent and tools you need as a SS and has played pretty well at times.

10. Tom Zbikowski 6-0 210 Zbikowski doesn't have too many fans on this board, but there is no denying that he is a smart and tough player. I honestly believe that he is a legitimate safety prospect who will go in round 4 at the latest, he is not as lost in coverage as you would think. He goes for the big hit and whiffs at times, but he has been given a big burden leading that ND defense for the last few years.

12. Derek Pegues* Miss. St. 6-0 200
12. DJ Wolfe Oklahoma 5-11 200
13. Tyrell Johnson Ark. St. 6-1 200
14. Marcus Griffin 5-11 200
15. Jamie Silva BC 5-11 205

darnik44two
12-20-2007, 06:31 AM
what about William Moore, Missouri??

he can play SS or FS

He is listed at 6-2, 205 and has a 40 time around 4.48

He has had a great season:

13 GP, 104 Tackles (63 solo, 41 assists), 9.0 TFL (42yds), 2.0 sack (21 yds), 7 Int (35 yds), 5 BrUp, 2 QBH, 1 FF


I'll second that. I watchd a ton of Missouri this year and I really took a likeing to Moore. I doubt he comes out, but if he did I could see him winding up in the end of the first round.

DSlay4
12-20-2007, 12:45 PM
Although Craig Steltz isn't real athletic he's still a tough kid that's pretty good coverage.

Big_Pete
12-20-2007, 05:12 PM
I'll second that. I watchd a ton of Missouri this year and I really took a likeing to Moore. I doubt he comes out, but if he did I could see him winding up in the end of the first round.

With a weak senior class and a good junior season; I wouldn't be surprised if he did declare.

It is interesting that everyone is talking about Phillips*, Harris*, Greene* (or moving CBs like Charles Godfrey, Antoine Cason, Reggie Smith* or Jack Ikeguowonu* to FS) as the top safeties; yet not many people mentioned William Moore...



Just another thought is Nic Harris or Josh Barrett better suited to playing WLB?? both are around 6'3, 225 and have reportedly a 40 time likely somewhere around 4.55-4.60.

darnik44two
12-20-2007, 05:17 PM
With a weak senior class and a good junior season; I wouldn't be surprised if he did declare.

It is interesting that everyone is talking about Phillips*, Harris*, Greene* (or moving CBs like Charles Godfrey, Antoine Cason, Reggie Smith* or Jack Ikeguowonu* to FS) as the top safeties; yet not many people mentioned William Moore...



Just another thought is Nic Harris or Josh Barrett better suited to playing WLB?? both are around 6'3, 225 and have reportedly a 40 time likely somewhere around 4.55-4.60.

He really should because next years safety class looks pretty good. I know a guy that goes to Missouri and he said Moore didn't even send his papers into the draft advisory committee. So who knows?

Big_Pete
12-20-2007, 05:19 PM
This class could be decent if some juniors other than KP declare, there are a lot of versatile guys who can be moved all over the secondary. If guys like Courtney Greense, Moore, and Nic Harris stay in school this could potentially be the worst safety class on paper in a while. I would rank this safety class with juniors who may come out like this-


What about Pat Chung, Oregon (5-11, 210, 4.48)


or even:
Jamario O'Neal, Ohio State (6-1, 225, 4.45 ) or
Kevin Ellison, USC (6-1, 224, 4.65)

keylime_5
12-20-2007, 05:57 PM
Jamario O'Neal is our backup strong safety who only sees the field on special teams. He sucks in college as a backup, can't even beat out a few freshman for the nickel and dime DB spot, why would he be anywhere near being considered for the NFL?

keylime_5
12-20-2007, 05:58 PM
This class of safeties is pretty weak. With only Kenny Phillips as the only true safety being 1st round worthy. Several CB's like Malcolm Jenkins and Reggie Smith have some experience at safety, which could improve their stock due to the weak class of safeties. Charles Godfrey could also sneak into the 2nd round as a FS. Who else could legitimately move over to safety?

Not to worry, next year's class should be great. Taylor Mays of USC and Anderson Russell of Ohio State are a couple to be-juniors who should be top prospects that can play either safety spot. Mays reminds me of Sean Taylor, and Russell is a Donte Whitner clone (seriously).

nhlkdog411
12-20-2007, 08:14 PM
how is steltz not athletic? he was a highly ranked recruit and should run right aruond 4.5, which imo is pretty damn solid for a strong safety...isn't that right around what guys like ed reed and sean taylor ran? Yup.

TimD
12-20-2007, 08:16 PM
Courtney Greene is a better NFL safety prospect than Kenny Philips. mark it down.

occasionally your Rutgers homerness can become annoying haha...

Jonny
12-20-2007, 08:23 PM
Greene is slow. He'll probably stay in school.

scottyboy
12-20-2007, 08:24 PM
Greene is slow. He'll probably stay in school.

speed isnt everything. I highly doubt he stays. with the incredibly weak safety class and Joe Lefeged killing people on the field, I feel he goes.

and TimDris, this isn't homerism, i'd say this even if i didnt jerk off to Rutgers games

oregonbucfan
12-24-2007, 06:55 AM
where does everyone think Patrick Chung would go if he left?

Solomon
12-24-2007, 10:57 AM
where does everyone think Patrick Chung would go if he left?

I'm a big fan of Chung and think he's a very good college safety but I'm a bit worried about his speed. I believe he was timed at 4.62 during spring training, something he's going to have to improve by alot if he wants to be drafted on the first day. If he came out this year I'd see him going in around the third round, he's smart and a tough tackler.

Raider_fan_Canada
12-24-2007, 02:55 PM
The Raiders safeties are plain horrible. They are soft, tackle high (and miss a lot), they get burned on play action, take bad angles, get run over or dragged in the endzone, ect. #24 SS Michael Huff s*cks a$$ for now and I dont have a lot of hope for the lights to turn on in year 3, but we are stuck with his 1st round contract. He can cover but doesnt make big plays in coverage. However he did give up a 25 yds completion on a critical 3rd and 20 this year because he gave his man a 15 yds cushion! I wont even elaborate on #30 (read the list above...). Im sure the best safety we have is #21 and he plays CB!

The team could realy use some help there and might look for a FS or SS in the second day. Not a burner, but a tough and disciplined player how knows how to tackle and has good technique. He also needs to have the potential to start after some grooming time.

Anybody knows a player that would fit that description?

Maybe we shoud have taken Jay Cutler in 06 and LaRon Landry in 07, but whatever...

Thanks

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-24-2007, 03:19 PM
I would have to say if Oakland had a big NT and a good SLB our S's wouldnt have to tackle as much as they do now.The fact that our S's are having to make as many tackles as they have this season is embarrasing the front seven needs to be upgraded.I like Huff and am ok with him at staying SS just because he does so well at covering TEs but I agree FS needs an upgrade.

How good is DJ Wolfe Ive heard alot of good things about him but havent seen him play much.

Don Vito
12-24-2007, 03:50 PM
How many defensive backs has Oakland taken in the first few rounds in the last 7 or 8 years? I am pretty dure there have been a lot, I don't see how a lot of those guys haven't panned out. Off the top of my head I know of Huff, Derrick Gibson, Buchannon, Asamougha, and Darnell Bing (LB now). To think they still need secondary help suprises me.

Concerning DJ Wolfe, he has played very well this season. I'm almost positive he wasn't even a starter earlier in the year. He and Nic Harris have been a great tandem, Wolfe is one of the better senior FS prospects in this class and could go in round 2.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-24-2007, 04:08 PM
Dont forget Washington and Routt.

oldLibid21
12-24-2007, 05:41 PM
How about Zbikowski, guys?

Don Vito
12-24-2007, 06:52 PM
How about Zbikowski, guys?

I think Zbikowski isn't as bad as we all think, he was overrated a few years back but I think he has been overly scrutinized lately. He was the leader of a pretty pathetic Irish defense over the last 2 or 3 years and was the anchor of the defense the last 2 seasons without a doubt. Some are toying with the notion of Zibby as a tampa 2 WLB, but I like him best as a SS. He is big, strong, smart, tough, and will not be a 4.4 guy but he is faster than many give him credit for. I think most people think he is slow because when they see him return punts he isn't as shifty as your average return man, but you don't see many strong safeties returning punts. Zibby has adequate speed for an NFL safety prospect, I think he will run in the mid 4.5s to low 4.6s. He does go for the big hit and whiff occasionally, but he has had to make a lot of tackles at ND. He is not an elite prospect but he is not as terrible as some make him out to be, I think he will be a third rounder.

nhlkdog411
12-24-2007, 08:23 PM
i see tommy z REALLY surprising people with his speed at the combine. this is a guy who coming out of highschool was running in the 4.4s and had run a 10.4 100 which is crazy fast. I also remember watching him run down reggie bush during one of ND's games against USC and talking to people the next day in school who were surprised he was able to do that (i was surprised at the speed as well). I think his lack of awareness and skill in coverage makes people assume that he is slow, but i think that this is more simply that he isn't great in coverage, similar to other fast safeties who haven't been good in coverage like adam archuleta (ran a 4.3 something at the combine before people jump on me that he's not fast; he might not run like that now but when he came out he was a fast SOB) and roy williams.

Raider_fan_Canada
12-25-2007, 12:43 AM
How many defensive backs has Oakland taken in the first few rounds in the last 7 or 8 years? I am pretty dure there have been a lot, I don't see how a lot of those guys haven't panned out. Off the top of my head I know of Huff, Derrick Gibson, Buchannon, Asamougha, and Darnell Bing (LB now). To think they still need secondary help suprises me.


Problem is old Al Davis only cares about speed. Tackling, discipline and technique dont seem to be important. Then you endup with safeties bitting on play-action, taking bad angles, missing tackles because they go high. You also have corners that can run with any body but that get outmatched physicaly on tough grabs (their guys are always better then ours, except for #21). Ho and, their all soft has hell except that same #21 who is a pure diamond of a football player. That would be Nnamdi Asomugha, the best player not to go to the Pro-Bowl this year.

But I agree with my fellow Raider fan. Its a shame we have to make so many tackles in the secondary and thats why they are so exposed. We have to upgrade the DLine bigtime. Thats why I say second day for a FS. Enough fast bums DB's taken early like that.

Cashmoney
12-25-2007, 01:04 AM
Not to worry, next year's class should be great. Taylor Mays of USC and Anderson Russell of Ohio State are a couple to be-juniors who should be top prospects that can play either safety spot. Mays reminds me of Sean Taylor, and Russell is a Donte Whitner clone (seriously).

No myron rolle?

oregonbucfan
12-25-2007, 02:00 AM
I'm a big fan of Chung and think he's a very good college safety but I'm a bit worried about his speed. I believe he was timed at 4.62 during spring training, something he's going to have to improve by alot if he wants to be drafted on the first day. If he came out this year I'd see him going in around the third round, he's smart and a tough tackler.


I think its smart hes staying easily go be a first team all american next year

DSlay4
12-25-2007, 07:17 AM
how is steltz not athletic? he was a highly ranked recruit and should run right aruond 4.5, which imo is pretty damn solid for a strong safety...isn't that right around what guys like ed reed and sean taylor ran? Yup.

What do you think a 40 time measures your athleticism? He has stiff hips, maybe you'd know that if you ever seen him play.

Staubach12
12-25-2007, 09:54 AM
What do you think a 40 time measures your athleticism? He has stiff hips, maybe you'd know that if you ever seen him play.

I have and you are exaggerating. Steltz has stiff hips at times and occasionally fails to turn his hips. However, most of the time he's fine. He is also able to use his instincts to cover up for that. It is a bit of a problem, but not a huge one.

psychosid
12-27-2007, 12:32 PM
ok guyz, gotta comment on the comments i have read......

#1 Tom Zbikowski: He has BLAZING speed, he WILL run a low 4.4 or high 4.3 at the combine, mark my words. Also, he is not that bad in coverage, it is just that ND's corner's suck, and he is usually the last guy chasing the opposing player in the end zone. He should (after he proves his speed at the combine) be a 2nd round pick.

#2 Craig Steltz: This guy is a good athlete, and has good speed. His actual football talent is way above average and is a ball hawk. So If he matches Kenny Phillips at the combine, he should (due to his size advantage) be taken before him, which i would assume is a late 1st round, early 2nd round pick.

etk
12-27-2007, 12:39 PM
LMAO at the thought of Steltz being taken ahead of KP. You CLEARLY have no clue what you're talking about, so I won't bother responding seriously. Just don't tell me that Steltz would be top 10 if he was black, cause I've heard enough of that from you.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-27-2007, 12:42 PM
Alot of people say that NDs CBs suck but the truth is that they have no S help.THe only reason why people say that is because Zbibkowski is portrayed as a superstar by the media.The truth is that he didnt do all that much for ND.Hes a solid tackler but absolutely lousy in coverage.High 4.3s?He'd be extremely lucky to get in the low 4.4s.Most of NDs secondary issues is because the Ss suck.

psychosid
12-27-2007, 01:04 PM
Oh so i see both of you are scouts i see, well ill stick by my opinions, and i actually played college football, did either of you.....I cant wait for the combine, we will see about all the "overachievers" that lack speed, like zibby, steltz, j.nelson, hester, etc, just curious, how come all the "blue collar" guyz look the same..and all of the "athletes" look the same, regardless of on field performance or actual timed speed?????

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-27-2007, 01:10 PM
Why mention Jacob Hester?is he gonna run in the high 4.3s to?and if he does should he go ahead of McFadden?

psychosid
12-27-2007, 01:12 PM
No he should not, but stay on topic, if steltz runs the same time as phillips, he should be taken before him because he was JUST AS IMPRESSIVE with his on field play, last i remember steltz was up for the thorpe award, not phillips!

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-27-2007, 01:20 PM
You brought up Hester.Awards have nothing to do with prospects.Just look at Troy Smith last year.

etk
12-27-2007, 01:22 PM
No he should not, but stay on topic, if steltz runs the same time as phillips, he should be taken before him because he was JUST AS IMPRESSIVE with his on field play, last i remember steltz was up for the thorpe award, not phillips!

That's one of the worst arguments you could put up for Steltz. He won a college award, look what that has done for (insert one of 1000s of busts). No, Steltz is not as impressive as Phillips is on the field. I haven't seen Phillips miss one tackle in his whole college career. He will immediately be one of the best form tacklers in the league when he's drafted. He improved in coverage, both man and zone, and had some big hits and FFs too. His only weakness is shedding blockers, but he's a S. Steltz benefitted from a stacked defense, and is not better than Phillips in any aspect of football, except for his ability to sit back 30 yards deep in coverage and catch punts as INTs. Steltz will never out-athlete Phillips at any combine, but even if he does, he's still not fluid in coverage and doesn't play as well on the field.

psychosid
12-27-2007, 01:30 PM
sorry elk, and lets not get to an insult level, i disagree, i played safety in college , and i see that this guy has the "it" factor, he is a ball hawk, great size and the fact that he stood out on such an impressive defense actually IMPROVES my position, not detracts from it. If steltz played for miami, he would have stood out much more, due to the fact that miami has NO WHERE NEAR the talent level as LSU

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-27-2007, 01:35 PM
sorry elk, and lets not get to an insult level, i disagree, i played safety in college , and i see that this guy has the "it" factor, he is a ball hawk, great size and the fact that he stood out on such an impressive defense actually IMPROVES my position, not detracts from it. If steltz played for miami, he would have stood out much more, due to the fact that miami has NO WHERE NEAR the talent level as LSU
thats pretty funny.Sure they suck record wise but they have plenty of talent.

Babylon
12-27-2007, 01:38 PM
ok guyz, gotta comment on the comments i have read......

#1 Tom Zbikowski: He has BLAZING speed, he WILL run a low 4.4 or high 4.3 at the combine, mark my words. Also, he is not that bad in coverage, it is just that ND's corner's suck, and he is usually the last guy chasing the opposing player in the end zone. He should (after he proves his speed at the combine) be a 2nd round pick.

#2 Craig Steltz: This guy is a good athlete, and has good speed. His actual football talent is way above average and is a ball hawk. So If he matches Kenny Phillips at the combine, he should (due to his size advantage) be taken before him, which i would assume is a late 1st round, early 2nd round pick.

My guess is Zibby will run a high 4.4 and Steltz probably high 4.5, may be wrong but i doubt it. If Zbikowski had Steltz's nose for the ball he would probably be a top 40 pick, i dont think he does but both guys can play and both should be gone by the end of round 4. just my take.

psychosid
12-27-2007, 01:49 PM
Obviously they dont, u are what your record is, and they suck, if they had more talent, they would win more. Maybe they need some of more of those "blue collar overachievers" lol ;)

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-27-2007, 03:06 PM
You do realize that football is a team sport and coaching is involved in it right.Are you saying that Shannon is just as good of a HC as Les Miles?Look at the recruiting classes each team brings in and tell me Miami doesnt bring in nowhere near as much talent as LSU.

psychosid
12-27-2007, 05:02 PM
oh you mean like the retards over at rivals, who dont have sam mcguffie as a top 5 tailback (gee i wonder why) no thats ok, ill stick to my guns and say that the talent level at maimi is grossly overrated, no "overachievers" lol

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-27-2007, 05:52 PM
oh you mean like the retards over at rivals, who dont have sam mcguffie as a top 5 tailback (gee i wonder why) no thats ok, ill stick to my guns and say that the talent level at maimi is grossly overrated, no "overachievers" lol
by overachiever do you mean Steltz.Hes more of a byproduct of the talent around him than an overachiever.

Gi-15
12-27-2007, 06:01 PM
by overachiever do you mean Steltz.Hes more of a byproduct of the talent around him than an overachiever.

You're making it sound like some bum off the street could do what he did this year. From the LSU games I saw he is an active, instinctive guy who's always near the ball, and that's the guys I want on my team. He's a 1st team AA and that was well deserved. He played on a great defense and he was a factor that made it a great defense.

Steltz is a solid 2nd to 3rd rounder.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-27-2007, 06:18 PM
Im not saying Steltz is terrible just overated and saying he should be picked ahead of Phillips if he runs the same or faster in the 40 (which is ridiculous it wont happen) is ridiculous.As much as people claim him to be a ballhawk he only interepted 6 passes this year.3 were against Mississippi State and in case you werent watching the game the QB for MSU had at least 3 guys in his face each time he dropped back to pass.He had one against VT.Yet LSU beat them 48-7.LSU beat the crap out of both of those teams.He had another 2 Ints against Ole Miss.This is the only game that was actually close.He certainly benefits from the rest of his defensive teamates especially when LSU plays inferior teams.

psychosid
12-27-2007, 08:35 PM
Maybe, justtttt maybe, he is that good and he made his teammates better, i love this double standard, glen dorsey is this unstoppable force, but steltz is just lucky to be on the same team, give me a break. Craig should get a tan, change his name to Jerome and I think his draft stock will soar!

regoob2
12-27-2007, 08:47 PM
Craig should get a tan, change his name to Jerome and I think his draft stock will soar!

Wow that is the most ignorant thing i've ever read on here. You should be proud.

psychosid
12-27-2007, 09:27 PM
cut the BS with your fake outrage regoob2, steltz is being downgraded because he is white, and if u cant see it then you dont WANT to see it

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-27-2007, 09:28 PM
nobody brought up race except for you.

regoob2
12-27-2007, 09:28 PM
cut the BS with your fake outrage regoob2, steltz is being downgraded because he is white, and if u cant see it then you dont WANT to see it

By who? your trying to say this guy is a top 10 pick if he runs well, thats just not true.

619
12-27-2007, 09:31 PM
cut the BS with your fake outrage regoob2, steltz is being downgraded because he is white, and if u cant see it then you dont WANT to see it

Its people like you who keep bringing up race. We're trying to evaluate him as a football player here, Philips without a doubt is the top safety and if you cant see that then you should stop posting here.

psychosid
12-27-2007, 10:05 PM
oh really 619, just curious, r u a scout, a coach, or a former player? or just another fan who thinks he knows everything, phillips is NOT the unquestioned best safety in this draft, steltz is just as impressive on the field in a bigger package, lets just wait till the senior bowl eval's and the combine, ok

regoob2
12-27-2007, 10:15 PM
oh really 619, just curious, r u a scout, a coach, or a former player? or just another fan who thinks he knows everything, phillips is NOT the unquestioned best safety in this draft, steltz is just as impressive on the field in a bigger package, lets just wait till the senior bowl eval's and the combine, ok

What 40 time do you see Steltz running and where do you see him going in the draft?

psychosid
12-27-2007, 10:29 PM
I see him running a high 4.4 to low 4.5, so lets just say a 4.5 flat and i see him deserving to go late first round, but going early to mid second round, due to the various reasons we have been arguing about for the past few hours..lol

regoob2
12-27-2007, 10:39 PM
I see him running a high 4.4 to low 4.5, so lets just say a 4.5 flat and i see him deserving to go late first round, but going early to mid second round, due to the various reasons we have been arguing about for the past few hours..lol

So you think Kenny Phillips is going to be a late first rounder or later? You said he is not a lock to be the first safety of the board so you obviously think Steltz will go ahead of him.

619
12-27-2007, 10:41 PM
oh really 619, just curious, r u a scout, a coach, or a former player? or just another fan who thinks he knows everything, phillips is NOT the unquestioned best safety in this draft, steltz is just as impressive on the field in a bigger package, lets just wait till the senior bowl eval's and the combine, ok

I wont even respond to your silliness, you've been ranting for the past hour over white discrimination in football for no apparent reason lol.

dcarey20
12-28-2007, 03:07 AM
Honestly, at this point, I don't see any safety prospect other than Phillips that carries a grade higher than the late 3rd round. At least for me. And I'm not even a Phillips fan. Personally I think he'd be a fringe first round prospect if this class was deep at the position.

etk
12-28-2007, 10:33 AM
sorry elk, and lets not get to an insult level, i disagree, i played safety in college , and i see that this guy has the "it" factor, he is a ball hawk, great size and the fact that he stood out on such an impressive defense actually IMPROVES my position, not detracts from it. If steltz played for miami, he would have stood out much more, due to the fact that miami has NO WHERE NEAR the talent level as LSU

If Steltz played for Miami, he would be abused in coverage. LSU surrounds him with a good pass rush and other great DBs, so he's allowed to hide occasionally, make mistakes, and roam. In our defense he would have nowhere to hide, and teams would pick on him in man and zone coverage. Phillips was our only consistent defensive back in coverage. You playing safety in college is irrelevant to me, because you have clear bias towards white players for one reason or another. You bring up the same pathetic argument and excuse in every thread, it's getting pretty lame. If a player doesn't have the talent, he just doesn't have it. It doesn't matter what color his skin is.
cut the BS with your fake outrage regoob2, steltz is being downgraded because he is white, and if u cant see it then you dont WANT to see it

You're seriously messed up in the head.
Honestly, at this point, I don't see any safety prospect other than Phillips that carries a grade higher than the late 3rd round. At least for me. And I'm not even a Phillips fan. Personally I think he'd be a fringe first round prospect if this class was deep at the position.

Phillips is a top 20 prospect. Nic Harris falls right behind him. It gets iffy after that.

Babylon
12-28-2007, 12:13 PM
[QUOTE=etk;805940]If Steltz played for Miami, he would be abused in coverage. LSU surrounds him with a good pass rush and other great DBs, so he's allowed to hide occasionally, make mistakes, and roam. In our defense he would have nowhere to hide, and teams would pick on him in man and zone coverage.

Your point being Miami has no pass rush or other good DBs(besides Phillips)?
I think Steltz can play in the NFL. Doubt he goes much higher than mid round 3 but i'll take him over a Roy Williams that's for sure.

DiG
12-28-2007, 03:27 PM
personally i wouldnt draft anyone other than phillips before the 3rd round this year and thats pushin it. unless nic harris comes out. imo he could be a better prospect than phillips.

but in the mid rounds theres potential for a steal if a team does their scouting right.

etk
12-28-2007, 05:04 PM
Your point being Miami has no pass rush or other good DBs(besides Phillips)?
I think Steltz can play in the NFL. Doubt he goes much higher than mid round 3 but i'll take him over a Roy Williams that's for sure.

We had a decent pass rush. Not what you'd normally expect from a Canes D, that's for sure. Our DBs were garbage all year, cept for Kenny.

Steltz is a 4th round pick because of the production. He will never be starting material in the NFL, unless he plays in a simple Cover 2 where he won't be abused in man-to-man by quicker slot receivers. He's better than Williams in coverage, but not as good of a hitter. I think that one's a push.

psychosid
12-28-2007, 05:09 PM
lol elk, i see you have steltz figured out, he will get abused in coverage, regardless of his 4.5 speed and play on the field, he is no more then a back up at the next level..lol and i somehow bet you think merriweater of new england is better then eric weddle of the chargers right????

Tampa 2 4 life
12-28-2007, 05:14 PM
Top 5 Senior Safeties:
1. Phillips - Obvious

(2 rounds later...)


2. Zbikowski - I still like his speed and upside.
3. Decloud
4. Hefney
(15 picks or so later...)
5. Steltz

gsoturf
12-28-2007, 05:17 PM
If Steltz played for Miami, he would be abused in coverage. LSU surrounds him with a good pass rush and other great DBs, so he's allowed to hide occasionally, make mistakes, and roam. In our defense he would have nowhere to hide, and teams would pick on him in man and zone coverage. Phillips was our only consistent defensive back in coverage. You playing safety in college is irrelevant to me, because you have clear bias towards white players for one reason or another. You bring up the same pathetic argument and excuse in every thread, it's getting pretty lame. If a player doesn't have the talent, he just doesn't have it. It doesn't matter what color his skin is.


You're seriously messed up in the head.


Phillips is a top 20 prospect. Nic Harris falls right behind him. It gets iffy after that.


To say he would be abused is a bit overboard here. You act like he is system safety or something, don't underrate his football ability.. The guy will make a decent living in the NFL. What I'm gathering from a lot of posters is that they don't understand what it takes to play football in college you act as if you can plug anyone in certain spots and they will perform.

Babylon
12-28-2007, 05:41 PM
Not sure that i dont like Jamie Silva better than Steltz.

etk
12-28-2007, 05:48 PM
lol elk, i see you have steltz figured out, he will get abused in coverage, regardless of his 4.5 speed and play on the field, he is no more then a back up at the next level..lol and i somehow bet you think merriweater of new england is better then eric weddle of the chargers right????

I have figured him out. I've seen him play more than enough to make a decision on him. Don't round off his 40 time either. Steltz is a mid-late 4.5 guy, that's different from 4.5 flat. I said he's a backup in any system other than a Cover 2 or other zone defense.

I like Weddle, but Meriweather is better. Meriweather can cover like a CB and hit like a linebacker, what's not to like. Weddle is good in coverage but he's not as physical or effective vs. the run as Meriweather. Either way, Steltz is no Weddle.

gsoturf
12-28-2007, 09:15 PM
Actually if you played football you would know there isn't much difference between 4.5 and 4.54. That's what I like to call track speed. If the runners are that close in timed speed you need to watch how they play in pads.

etk
12-28-2007, 09:17 PM
Actually if you played football you would know there isn't much difference between 4.5 and 4.54. That's what I like to call track speed. If the runners are that close in timed speed you need to watch how they play in pads.

The point is that Steltz is probably closer to 4.6 than 4.5, so don't boost.

BamaFalcon59
12-28-2007, 09:37 PM
While some of his comments are pretty bad, some are somewhat true. McGuffie would be higher if black, white players are considered overachievers and bad athletes, etc.. While many times its true (Jacob Hester), other times it isn't (Brian Leonard). Just a thought.

BamaFalcon59
12-28-2007, 09:38 PM
That would be Nnamdi Asomugha, the best player not to go to the Pro-Bowl this year.
.

He wasn't even the best CB to miss the pro-bowl. That would be DeAngelo Hall, who played better than any CB in the NFL this year.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-28-2007, 09:39 PM
He wasn't even the best CB to miss the pro-bowl. That would be DeAngelo Hall, who played better than any CB in the NFL this year.
haha thats pretty funny.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-28-2007, 09:40 PM
Steltz speed isnt the problem its the fact that he has stiff hips.In man to man coverage stiff hips certainly doesnt help you at all.This is probably why hes limited to zone coverage.

Gi-15
12-28-2007, 09:42 PM
He wasn't even the best CB to miss the pro-bowl. That would be DeAngelo Hall, who played better than any CB in the NFL this year.

charles woodson.

scottyboy
12-28-2007, 09:44 PM
http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1109/ncf_g_greene_412.jpg

case closed

BamaFalcon59
12-28-2007, 09:44 PM
haha thats pretty funny.

No, I'm serious. He might have gotten torched in 2006 but he was great this year. The only time he got beat pretty bad was against Joey Galloway and maybe Amani Toomer.

DSlay4
12-29-2007, 10:38 AM
I dont care what anyone says, Jamie Silva is the best safety in college football.

His instincts are second to none and he plays with attitude. He'll be the best safety out of this draft, mark my words.

nhlkdog411
12-29-2007, 10:53 AM
probably have to agree with you there dslay..i have no idea how silva will time (guessing mid to high 4.5?) but he is a tackling machine (120ish tackles) and he clearly has a nose for the ball with all of those picks.

Raider_fan_Canada
12-29-2007, 11:34 AM
He wasn't even the best CB to miss the pro-bowl. That would be DeAngelo Hall, who played better than any CB in the NFL this year.

He was thrown to in average 2 times a game. I think the completion % was about 40% and he got beat bad only one time by Dwane Bowe. Anyway I dont know how good D Hall did this year. I was just giving props to my player thats all.

Babylon
12-29-2007, 12:37 PM
probably have to agree with you there dslay..i have no idea how silva will time (guessing mid to high 4.5?) but he is a tackling machine (120ish tackles) and he clearly has a nose for the ball with all of those picks.

H reminds me of a guy that played for the Buckeyes and New England, Tim Fox. Needs to time well at the combine and could move up in what appears to be a rather ordinary safety class.