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SpinaMan
12-20-2007, 12:05 AM
I really want Colt Brennan to be our franchise QB after Jeff Garcia. The guy can make all the throws and read coverages really well. What do you think the changes are Chucky drafting him in the first day maybe round 3 or 4? I want to know your opinons on Colt Brennan being a BUC.....Also where do you see are RB future next season if Carnell gets hurt again or can't be an every down back like Earnest can? Do you think he will Spell Earnest. I'm pretty sure Michael Bennent is going to be out of TB. How bout Felix Jones in 09 if he stays in ? Please give me your thoughts.

Canadian_kid16
12-20-2007, 02:17 PM
Brennan won't last to our round three pick...I want us to pick him up in Round 2, where he can learn a pro offense for a year, then come in a be our QBotf

As for our RB situaion...I look for us to make a splash in free agency this year, or draft a RB in the later rounds. The crop of RB's isn't really that great this year, so if we do draft another top notch running back, I look for it to be next year.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-20-2007, 03:41 PM
I really want Colt Brennan to be our franchise QB after Jeff Garcia. The guy can make all the throws and read coverages really well. What do you think the changes are Chucky drafting him in the first day maybe round 3 or 4? I want to know your opinons on Colt Brennan being a BUC.....Also where do you see are RB future next season if Carnell gets hurt again or can't be an every down back like Earnest can? Do you think he will Spell Earnest. I'm pretty sure Michael Bennent is going to be out of TB. How bout Felix Jones in 09 if he stays in ? Please give me your thoughts.

If he lasts that long...A lot of GMs are rating him as the top QB.

Beans
12-20-2007, 06:55 PM
I really want Brennan. He's probably tops on my list. I think his status is going to rise high enough to justify using our first-rounder on him.

Caddy
12-21-2007, 06:52 AM
I would definitely contemplate drafting Brennan but personally wouldn't use any pick within the first 2 rounds on him. If he slips a little great, but if not I won't be disappointed at all.

As for the RB situation, it is nowhere near as bad as people think. Earnest Graham is our safety net at this stage; he can do anything we require. Cadillac should be back by next season and still has plenty to offer the team. Add Pittman and Bennett into the mix and the RB situation should be pretty sweet for at least 2 more years.

neko4
12-21-2007, 07:03 AM
I think yall might have to get him in the 1st if he has a good senior bowl

etk
12-21-2007, 08:31 AM
I really want Brennan. He's probably tops on my list. I think his status is going to rise high enough to justify using our first-rounder on him.

Is he valuable enough to warrant a first round pick? Definitely.

Do we need a QB so badly that we should draft him ahead of our other needs like WR, CB, DL, etc? No way.

I'd love to have Brennan as my QB but Gruden doesn't like drafting QBs early, nor does he like developing them. McCown is already almost two seasons into his development and he looks fine as our future quarterback. Garcia isn't retiring yet and Gruden hasn't given up on Grads so there's a full QB lineup already. We won't be drafting a QB this year unless that changes, mark it down.

I love our RB situation. Graham is the perfect runner to complement our team styles. We take care of the football and burn the clock, and Graham picks up the consistent yardage to make that happen. At this point Caddy is a bonus. He won't be forced back into play and he will be able to ease himself back into the offense. Pittman is dead weight at this point. He's overpaid, injured and ineffective. I wouldn't mind keeping Bennett because he's a good change-of-pace on 3rd and longish. That leaves us with another spot for competition, which I think could be filled through a second-day draft steal.

YoJoeBucsFan
12-23-2007, 08:19 AM
and Gruden hasn't given up on Grads

Thats the scariest thing I have read in a long time.

etk
12-23-2007, 12:37 PM
Thats the scariest thing I have read in a long time.

Yeah, it's scary, but it's also true. Gruden says nothing but good things for Grads, and you know Gruden won't give up on his own personal pet project at QB. He won't admit failure in drafting him.

Caddy
12-23-2007, 06:29 PM
Does anyone think that if Chucky gets a contract extension it increases the possibility of him drafting a QB this season rather than waiting?

etk
12-23-2007, 09:01 PM
Not at all. I think it's the opposite. Chucky hates drafting QBs and does a fine job of turning journeymen into starters. Why would he change his patterns now? Garcia is still 1-2 years away from retirement, while McCown is a potential option and Grads is not getting cut. We're not drafting a QB unless something changes from that scenario. We will probably bring in a UDFA, hopefully Paul Smith, to compete in training camp. Same as last year with Zac Taylor.

If, by some crazy circumstance, Gruden was fired and replaced, we would be a lock to draft a QB in the first 3 rounds.

Caddy
12-23-2007, 09:49 PM
Not at all. I think it's the opposite. Chucky hates drafting QBs and does a fine job of turning journeymen into starters. Why would he change his patterns now? Garcia is still 1-2 years away from retirement, while McCown is a potential option and Grads is not getting cut. We're not drafting a QB unless something changes from that scenario. We will probably bring in a UDFA, hopefully Paul Smith, to compete in training camp. Same as last year with Zac Taylor.

If, by some crazy circumstance, Gruden was fired and replaced, we would be a lock to draft a QB in the first 3 rounds.

I was kind of cheering for Zac Taylor last TC. I knew he had no shot but cheering for the underdog is fun (See Chas Gessner).

I share a similar view to you etk in that I don't want to draft a QB in unnecessary circumstances. If the value is there and the team feels they can grab a guy who can replace Garcia in 12 months then I'm fine with it. But if there are other players on the board at separate positions of need who have a high value, we should look at them.

It's not like Garcia and McCown can't man the ship for another season anyway.

dbtb135
12-25-2007, 12:38 PM
Etk, you seem to be wrong once again. Gruden pulled Grads after his awful play against the Skins, when McCown was still in his doghouse. Third string and still carrying Simms around doesn't seem like he's too confident in ANYONE aside from old man Garcia. I think he keeps Bruce around as a 3rd stringer, but nothing that would hinder him from taking a QB if he/the staff liked one. He's not incompetent.

etk
12-25-2007, 03:30 PM
Etk, you seem to be wrong once again. Gruden pulled Grads after his awful play against the Skins, when McCown was still in his doghouse. Third string and still carrying Simms around doesn't seem like he's too confident in ANYONE aside from old man Garcia. I think he keeps Bruce around as a 3rd stringer, but nothing that would hinder him from taking a QB if he/the staff liked one. He's not incompetent.

All he did was defend Grads afterwards. If Bruce was on his way out, Gruden would have no problem with making him accountable for our offensive struggles. Instead, he said Bruce had some nice drives and suffered from his WRs dropping passes. Jon believes in himself as a QB coach and he knows he can make any decent QB into a solid tactician, just like Bill Walsh. I think Gruden would rather stick with developing who he has while adding additional team talent rather than starting fresh with another project. I don't think we will draft another QB until Jeff retires and frees up a roster spot for competition. I don't see anything "wrong" with that opinion. There are plenty of terrific sophomore QBs and some Junior steals in college right now. We're in fine shape at the position. Gruden is not incompetent, he's overconfident. It's a strength and a weakness at times.

dbtb135
12-25-2007, 07:12 PM
All he did was defend Grads afterwards. If Bruce was on his way out, Gruden would have no problem with making him accountable for our offensive struggles. Instead, he said Bruce had some nice drives and suffered from his WRs dropping passes.

Which is to say you can't difference between coach speak and actual situations? Gruden talks up most of his QBs (this has included Johnson after terrible starts, Simms after terrible starts, Rattay, Grads, McCown) but the most telling one in this conversation should be Brian Griese. Of course you claim to know so much about Gruden, you'll obviously know that Gruden liked Griese a lot more than he ever has Grads after that 04 performance. Griese played nothing short of awful in 05, but Gruden made excuse after excuse for him. At the end of the season, we could have easily kept Griese (who was under contract) and had a vet QB to back-up/compete with Simms (who you love and Gruden is not entirely fond of), but Gruden released him without hesitation. The same guy he made countless excuses for.

Furthermore, two questions:

1. Wouldn't starting McCown over the more experienced, and according to you more believed-in, Grads speak louder than any gussied up press conference answer?

2. How many times does a player, especially a QB, play terrible and get thrown under the bus by his coach?

I don't think we will draft another QB until Jeff retires and frees up a roster spot for competition. I don't see anything "wrong" with that opinion. There are plenty of terrific sophomore QBs and some Junior steals in college right now.

I do think we pass on a QB this offseason, but for lack of options. Not because Gruden will use the logic of "I don't need a QB, I've got Grads."

etk
12-25-2007, 07:49 PM
Furthermore, two questions:

1. Wouldn't starting McCown over the more experienced, and according to you more believed-in, Grads speak louder than any gussied up press conference answer?

2. How many times does a player, especially a QB, play terrible and get thrown under the bus by his coach?



I do think we pass on a QB this offseason, but for lack of options. Not because Gruden will use the logic of "I don't need a QB, I've got Grads."

Where did I say Gruden believes more in McCown than Grads? Gruden is not blind, and he knows that Grads played poorly against Washington. His PC answers showed me that he still has faith in him and still wants to work with him in the future. He was VERY keen on defending him, so he must see something in him to keep him as a 3rd stringer.

I don't have the memory to bring up specific situations, but I think you must've heard a coach say "so and so didn't execute" or "so and so made some bad plays" before. I don't expect any coach to bash a player completely, but Gruden didn't even infer that Grads played anything but well. I've also seen QBs get released or traded after 1-2 poor performances. Charlie Frye is an example, but there have been others I'm sure.

Once again, where did I say that Grads is the reason we won't draft a QB. The only role he plays in drafting a QB is that he holds a roster spot as a 3rd-stringer. I can't see us parting with both Grads and Simms this offseason.

dbtb135
12-25-2007, 09:09 PM
Where did I say Gruden believes more in McCown than Grads?

Entirely missed my point.

Gruden is not blind, and he knows that Grads played poorly against Washington. His PC answers showed me that he still has faith in him and still wants to work with him in the future. He was VERY keen on defending him, so he must see something in him to keep him as a 3rd stringer.

Again, WHY are you putting anything into PRESS CONFERENCE ANSWERS? Are you young and naive?

I don't have the memory to bring up specific situations, but I think you must've heard a coach say "so and so didn't execute" or "so and so made some bad plays" before. I don't expect any coach to bash a player completely, but Gruden didn't even infer that Grads played anything but well. I've also seen QBs get released or traded after 1-2 poor performances. Charlie Frye is an example, but there have been others I'm sure.

Gruden has no other options. He's not going to go to Eugene. His best bet is staying with Grads and not killing what little confidence he may have by saying "Boy, Grads sure did stink out there. I can't wait to cut him after this season is over." No, thats not the norm in the NFL. Normally LEADERS of team's are held accountable. Young guys who do everything wrong almost ALWAYS get their coaches focusing on the positives to the press. Brian Billick on Kyle Boller. Lovie Smith on Rex Grossman. The list goes on for days.

I can't see us parting with both Grads and Simms this offseason.

Who said we're parting with Simms?

etk
12-26-2007, 12:03 PM
I can't see us keeping Simms. He will demand more money than we need to offer for him, and there hasn't been any evidence so far this season to show we want him back.

dbtb135
12-26-2007, 04:09 PM
I can't see us keeping Simms. He will demand more money than we need to offer for him, and there hasn't been any evidence so far this season to show we want him back.

He's signed for next season, and didn't play a down this season. He has no basis to demand more money, and even if he did, he's obligated to play for us another year.

etk
12-26-2007, 11:17 PM
He's signed for next season, and didn't play a down this season. He has no basis to demand more money, and even if he did, he's obligated to play for us another year.

I didn't know he was guaranteed for next season. He still might get traded. The Simms situation only strengthens the argument against drafting a QB then.

dbtb135
12-27-2007, 11:45 AM
I didn't know he was guaranteed for next season. He still might get traded. The Simms situation only strengthens the argument against drafting a QB then.

I don't know if we'd get anything for a QB coming off injury, who has shown little in the past anyway, with one year left on his contract.

etk
12-27-2007, 11:57 AM
I don't know if we'd get anything for a QB coming off injury, who has shown little in the past anyway, with one year left on his contract.

I think there are a few teams that would trade a 2nd day pick for Simms. He's still a young QB that can be a solid backup and compete as a starter.

dbtb135
12-27-2007, 11:08 PM
I think there are a few teams that would trade a 2nd day pick for Simms. He's still a young QB that can be a solid backup and compete as a starter.

We'd get like what we traded for Rattay/McCown in a throwaway 6th rounder. I say keep him. He'd have more value to us as a back-up than some TC player who doesn't even make the roster.

etk
12-28-2007, 10:11 AM
I disagree. Simms is worth more than a throwaway pick. He has way more credentials and has proven more than those 2 QBs at the time of their trading. I think he's worth as much as a 4th, because in reality he's better than any 4th round QB.

dbtb135
12-30-2007, 04:12 PM
I disagree. Simms is worth more than a throwaway pick. He has way more credentials and has proven more than those 2 QBs at the time of their trading. I think he's worth as much as a 4th, because in reality he's better than any 4th round QB.

QB who hasn't played in almost 2 full seasons, played absolutely awful with a key release flaw when he did play, only gave half a season of solid play, after two and a half seasons of bench-riding, after being picked at the tail end of the 3rd round to begin with, who is on the last year of his contract. Yeah, we're not getting anything decent for him. A late 5th MAYBE.