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JDB7821
12-29-2007, 10:44 PM
First, you posted the blog and stated "Now I'll be the first to tell you that there isn't a quarterback in this draft worthy of a Top 10 pick, let alone a Top 5 pick"..."Are there going to be better players available to the Falcons with that first pick? Absolutely."...and then in your scouting report for Matt Ryan, who you list as your top quarterback, you say "a solid starter at the next level but probably isn't a franchise signal caller."

As a Falcon fan, I 100% agree that we need a quarterback. It might be the most pressing need on the team, with only the offensive line getting some consideration. But to say that we would be stupid to pass on a quarterback at the top of the draft, when you say that that Matt Ryan probably isn't a franchise quarterback just makes no sense. Why would we invest in someone who doesn't have what it takes to be a franchise signal caller? Yeah, I agree, if there was a guy like Peyton Manning in this draft then I wouldn't question for a second the need to draft a quarterback first, but there just isn't a quarterback like that. You can't reach for an undervalued player when you have so many holes, even if it is quarterback.

I see no reason why we shouldn't draft an ELITE talent like McFadden, Long, or Dorsey when they are much safer picks to become Pro Bowlers at their positions. I just don't see why we would take a quarterback who won't be up their with the elites like Brady and Manning with such a high investment when we have so many other holes too. We aren't going to fix this team in one draft, it would be much wiser to wait with a stopgap quarterback and build a suitable team for a rookie to come into.

BroadwayJoe10
12-29-2007, 10:59 PM
First, you posted the blog and stated "Now I'll be the first to tell you that there isn't a quarterback in this draft worthy of a Top 10 pick, let alone a Top 5 pick"..."Are there going to be better players available to the Falcons with that first pick? Absolutely."...and then in your scouting report for Matt Ryan, who you list as your top quarterback, you say "a solid starter at the next level but probably isn't a franchise signal caller."

As a Falcon fan, I 100% agree that we need a quarterback. It might be the most pressing need on the team, with only the offensive line getting some consideration. But to say that we would be stupid to pass on a quarterback at the top of the draft, when you say that that Matt Ryan probably isn't a franchise quarterback just makes no sense. Why would we invest in someone who doesn't have what it takes to be a franchise signal caller? Yeah, I agree, if there was a guy like Peyton Manning in this draft then I wouldn't question for a second the need to draft a quarterback first, but there just isn't a quarterback like that. You can't reach for an undervalued player when you have so many holes, even if it is quarterback.

I see no reason why we shouldn't draft an ELITE talent like McFadden, Long, or Dorsey when they are much safer picks to become Pro Bowlers at their positions. I just don't see why we would take a quarterback who won't be up their with the elites like Brady and Manning with such a high investment when we have so many other holes too. We aren't going to fix this team in one draft, it would be much wiser to wait with a stopgap quarterback and build a suitable team for a rookie to come into.

Valid question and i was thinking the same thing. I am under the impression that the falcons desperately need a QB, but i beleive that more than anything they need a new face to their franchise. I think McFadden can be that guy, the guy that can raise the hopes of such a great city and give them something to look forward to. By doing so, they also add the best player in this years draft.

I personally feel that he would be the best choice, but scott is scott for a reason so i'd go with his evaluation on it. If i had to venture a guess i would say that their needs are so desperate at QB that Even though ryan may not be a sure top 10 pick based on talent alone, he is a 10-15 qb and a team that has a great need for a QB could be validated by picking him a bit early. And drafting a player, especially a QB isn't an exact science, so there could be promise with his intangibles that he could end up a franchise qb.

JDB7821
12-29-2007, 11:08 PM
Valid question and i was thinking the same thing. I am under the impression that the falcons desperately need a QB, but i beleive that more than anything they need a new face to their franchise. I think McFadden can be that guy, the guy that can raise the hopes of such a great city and give them something to look forward to. By doing so, they also add the best player in this years draft.

I personally feel that he would be the best choice, but scott is scott for a reason so i'd go with his evaluation on it. If i had to venture a guess i would say that their needs are so desperate at QB that Even though ryan may not be a sure top 10 pick based on talent alone, he is a 10-15 qb and a team that has a great need for a QB could be validated by picking him a bit early. And drafting a player, especially a QB isn't an exact science, so there could be promise with his intangibles that he could end up a franchise qb.

That's the thing though, I don't see that we are "so desperate" that we couldn't grab a veteran guy to hold it down for just one more season. We aren't going to turn this thing around in one offseason and we are going to suck again next year, so why do we absolutely have to find that guy this season when we will be in position next year to grab a quarterback next year too? I don't see why we would pass on a guy like McFadden for Ryan. Warrick Dunn probably has close to the worst YPC for a starting running back in the league and Norwood seems to be only a situational guy. Why wouldn't we do like the Chargers did and draft the elite running back to build around when we could also do like they did and try to find a Brees in the 2nd such as Flacco, Henne, Brennan, etc.? If that 2nd round quarterback works out, then we have an elite guy and a quarterback. If he doesn't, then we don't have the high investment and we can continue our search. If we draft Ryan and he doesn't work out, that sets us back much, much more.

BroadwayJoe10
12-29-2007, 11:27 PM
That's the thing though, I don't see that we are "so desperate" that we couldn't grab a veteran guy to hold it down for just one more season. We aren't going to turn this thing around in one offseason and we are going to suck again next year, so why do we absolutely have to find that guy this season when we will be in position next year to grab a quarterback next year too? I don't see why we would pass on a guy like McFadden for Ryan. Warrick Dunn probably has close to the worst YPC for a starting running back in the league and Norwood seems to be only a situational guy. Why wouldn't we do like the Chargers did and draft the elite running back to build around when we could also do like they did and try to find a Brees in the 2nd such as Flacco, Henne, Brennan, etc.? If that 2nd round quarterback works out, then we have an elite guy and a quarterback. If he doesn't, then we don't have the high investment and we can continue our search. If we draft Ryan and he doesn't work out, that sets us back much, much more.


Oh I agree with picking McFadden for the falcons, but i was more trying to give a possible idea of why scott has ryan going their. I'm not a falcons fan so i'm not the best person to say who they should select, but from what i've see happen this year i think McFadden would be a good fit.

CherryGarcia510
12-30-2007, 12:12 AM
they should trade for Anderson

49ersfan_87
12-30-2007, 12:18 AM
I sort of agree with you. If you are not confident in the best available QB at your pick, you should wait. Waiting 1 year for the right QB is better than wasting 3-4 years developing the wrong one.

scar988
12-30-2007, 12:21 AM
they should trade for Anderson

ew no. unless they want a 4th for Anderson, I wouldn't give anything more than that.

dcarey20
12-30-2007, 12:40 AM
Quarterback? They have Matt Schaub.

Oh wait...

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 10:16 AM
People would be surprised if they saw how our Qbs performed when protected and having receivers make plays. We had like 4 interceptions this year off of drops (all courtasy of Michael Jenkins), which causes misleading stats. We had 10 (Joey Harrington 6, Byron Leftwich 1, Chris Redman 3) games with our quarterback having a passer rating of over 85. Do you know how many 100 yard rush games we had this year? 1. How many times Warrick Dunn had over a 4.0 yard per carry? 3. And one of those games he had 8 carries. How many times we got sacked? 45.

So while I completely agree QB is a huge need, RB and offensive line are equally big. Either Warrick Dunn is really done (I think so, although I love the guy), or our offensive line is just horrible. Which it is because of the sack totals and even a done runningback doesn't average 3.0 yards per carry.

So really I don't see the point in reaching for a 'solid starter' at QB when a 'solid starter' can be had in round 2 and when 'elite talents' such as Darren McFadden and Jake Long can be had at positions of equal need.

Scott Wright
12-30-2007, 10:54 AM
The Falcons might have the worst quarterback situation in the league. Everything starts and ends at the quarterback position and Atlanta needs a guy they can build around both on and off the field. They are not going to wait another year to get the face of their franchise, they are going to bring in their QB of the future this offseason and outside of trading for Derek Anderson the only way to do that is in the draft. And as far as taking one in the 2nd or 3rd round feel free to search for the post I did on that. Basically what I came up with is that in the last 15 years the success rate for QB's taken in round two and three is 3% so that argument doesn't fly. Honestly, right now the only people who don't think Atlanta is going to go quarterback in round one are Falcon fans. Running back is one of the few positions where the Falcons don't need help so even if McFadden was available it doesn't make a lot of sense to give him $30 million guaranteed when guys like Ryan Grant have proven yet again that it's very easy to find top running backs.

EDIT:

Basically my point is this:

Even though Ryan and Brohm might not be legit Top 5 or Top 10 picks it's like if you were dying of thirst. Sure a cold beer would be great but at this point you'll take some warm tap water.

Babylon
12-30-2007, 11:29 AM
I think Brohm and Ryan are legit top 10 picks and maybe top 5. If someone is going to try and convince me that Chris Long or Jake Long are much higher rated players than the two QBs then have at it.

Don Killuminati
12-30-2007, 02:43 PM
It's the same thing as when guys like JaMarcus Russell, Alex Smith, etc got overdrafted. People are obsessed with QBs. So, they rate a half-ass passer over a blue chip lineman. Idiocy runs rampant in NFL scouting circles when it comes to QBs.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 03:59 PM
Running back is one of the few positions where the Falcons don't need help



Proof you have no idea what you are talking about.

Flyboy
12-30-2007, 04:00 PM
EDIT:

Basically my point is this:

Even though Ryan and Brohm might not be legit Top 5 or Top 10 picks it's like if you were dying of thirst. Sure a cold beer would be great but at this point you'll take some warm tap water.

I view it much like the 49ers taking Alex Smith #1 overall.

It's the same thing as when guys like JaMarcus Russell, Alex Smith, etc got overdrafted.

How can you say Russell was overdrafted when the guy has barely played?

scar988
12-30-2007, 04:06 PM
The Falcons QB situation is bad. but if it's so bad I think there is a possibility for a starter currently on the team. Chris Redman. he has a 2-1 TD to INT ratio and averaged 59% comp %, 214 yards, 2 TD's and 1 INT per game he had a lot of PT in. over a year thats 59% comp %, 3424 yards, 32 TD's and 16 INT's. that's solid enough for me. in fact that woudl be much better than Vick ever was and I think Redman might actually be a solid NFL player. it's not like he doesn't have the talent. He has enough talent to where next year he will at a minimum compete for the startign job with whoever we draft in any round. and the WR's like catchign his balls.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 04:08 PM
Chris Redman is da truth anyway.

5 games with over 20 pass attempts
4 games with a passer rating over 85.

End of year stats-

89/ 149
59%
1,079
10 TD
5 INT
90.42 passer rating

Stats excluding Tampa Bay game...

85/ 134
63.4%
1045
10 TD
3 INT
102.99 passer rating

I don't think QB is a round 1 need in comparison to LT, RB, and NT; but that's just me. I probably sound insane but the man is doing this without much help.

scar988
12-30-2007, 04:24 PM
I agree... though I disagree with the not much help thing. Roddy White has been beasting it, Laurent Robinson is looking liek a good #2, Joe Horn is a solid NFL WR still. Jenkins isn't bad as a slot man. Norwood is a great receiving threat out hte backfield. the run game has been solid (not great, but still solid with Redman) and Crumpler is finally turning it back on. so I think next year, Redman will start, and whoever we draft wil sit for at least a year. I also hope we get JAke Long to be our franchise LT. behind Long and Blalock, more Wiener back to RT, and with forney and Wiener o nthe right side which was our old strong side, we may acually have a solid OL for the first time in a long time.

Young Legend
12-30-2007, 04:25 PM
dosent matter now so..your not gonna be in the top 5

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 04:28 PM
I agree... though I disagree with the not much help thing. Roddy White has been beasting it, Laurent Robinson is looking liek a good #2, Joe Horn is a solid NFL WR still. Jenkins isn't bad as a slot man. Norwood is a great receiving threat out hte backfield. the run game has been solid (not great, but still solid with Redman) and Crumpler is finally turning it back on. so I think next year, Redman will start, and whoever we draft wil sit for at least a year. I also hope we get JAke Long to be our franchise LT. behind Long and Blalock, more Wiener back to RT, and with forney and Wiener o nthe right side which was our old strong side, we may acually have a solid OL for the first time in a long time.

I wouldn't say the running game has been solid. This game it was, but not outside of this game. And the OL has been bad.

The receivers stepped it up though.

Roddy White
1,202 yards
82 receptions
6 TD

And he looked like a bust last year. Jamaal Anderson there is hope!!! Lol.

scar988
12-30-2007, 04:38 PM
I wouldn't say the running game has been solid. This game it was, but not outside of this game. And the OL has been bad.

The receivers stepped it up though.

Roddy White
1,202 yards
82 receptions
6 TD

And he looked like a bust last year. Jamaal Anderson there is hope!!! Lol.

oh yeah. Roddy (1202 yds, 6 TD), Jenkins (532 yds, 4 TD), Robinson (437 yds, 1 TD), Crumpler (444 yds, 5 TD), Horn (243 yds, 1 TD). that's not a bad group. add in Norwood (277 yds) and Dunn (238 yds) out of the backfield and we had a lot of pasing yards this year. Whoever we draft will have a lot of weapons in the passing game. Also, the run game wasn't all that bad this year, we had a total of 1520 yards on the ground this year. and while it wasn't amazing, considerng how bad our OL was to have 95 yards rushign a game is still solid for our guys. get some OL. and IMO get Long, and get a RT like Richardson in the 3rd and we'll have OL settled for a while.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 04:47 PM
I think we need a RB also. Warrick Dunn will either be cut or get a paycut and play Kevin Faulk. Jerious Norwood will be Jerious Norwood and then the draftee will handle about 200 carries.

Ex.

James Davis- 200 carries (Snelling+Ovie Mughelli 19 carries this year)
Jerious Norwood- 120 carries (102 this year)
Warrick Dunn- 60 carries (227 this year)

So your looking at 350 carries this year basically and 380-400 next year. Warrick has a big cap hit but he can catch the ball, block, and be a leader so I'm not sure what we do with him. Most rookies can't block or catch like him so I dunno. I hope he can take a paycut.

Average OT LB
12-30-2007, 04:52 PM
Proof you have no idea what you are talking about.

smart, call out the guy who has the most proof that he has an idea what hes talkign about.....

i honestly have no idea what the hell you could even be thinking.. running back is obviously a position the falcons wont go with round one...

"cold beer" or warm water..

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 05:00 PM
smart, call out the guy who has the most proof that he has an idea what hes talkign about.....

i honestly have no idea what the hell you could even be thinking.. running back is obviously a position the falcons wont go with round one...

"cold beer" or warm water..

People are living in the past. This is not the Michael Vick pumped up offense. I beg anyone who thinks we are set at RB to look at the stats.

Warrick Dunn
227 carries
720 yards
3.2 yards per carry
33 years old next season

Jerious Norwood
Injury Prone (CAN NOT carry the load, he can't handle 100 carries without getting hurt several times)
102 carries
617 yards
6.1 yards per carry

Jason Snelling
No need to explain


People are ignorant of the situation. We have a big hole at RB.

What proof does Scott have that he is right? Our RBs are old (Warrick Dunn), injury prone (Jerious Norwood), or inneffective (Warrick Dunn).

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 05:01 PM
I view it much like the 49ers taking Alex Smith #1 overall.



How can you say Russell was overdrafted when the guy has barely played?

Overdrafted as a prospect.

Flyboy
12-30-2007, 05:48 PM
Overdrafted as a prospect.

I still don't buy that logic either. At least not for Russell.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 05:49 PM
I was just saying what Scott was refferring to. He liked Brady Quinn better.

Don Killuminati
12-30-2007, 06:17 PM
How can you say Russell was overdrafted when the guy has barely played?

Because he wasn't very good at LSU? Certainly not #1 overall good. Top 5...maybe.

georgiafan
12-30-2007, 07:25 PM
The falcons are far from set at HB other then QB and OT it may be the the biggest need on the team. Without Vick the team went from 1st to mid 20's in rushing yards

Don Killuminati
12-30-2007, 07:53 PM
Dumping your OL coach didn't help matters either. Oakland says thank you, btw.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 07:55 PM
I think Petrino brought in his college offensive line coach...sigh

MidSouthRam
12-30-2007, 08:51 PM
Honestly, right now the only people who don't think Atlanta is going to go quarterback in round one are Falcon fans.

I don't think the Falcons are going to go QB in the first round and I'm a Rams fan. BTW, the face of the Rams franchise isn't Bulger. It's Holt and Jackson.

And in Atlanta it very well could be McFadden.

Food for thought.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 08:57 PM
Lots of faces are not QBs.

Cowboys I see TO.
Rams I see Steven Jackson.
Chiefs I see Larry Johnson.
Bears I see Brian Urlacher.
Jaguars I see Maurice Jones Drew and Fred Taylor.
Minnesota I see Adrian Peterson.
Redskins I see Clinton Portis.
Panthers I see Steve Smith.
Bucs I see Derrick Brooks.
Chargers I see LaDainian Tomlinson.
Ravens I see Ray Lewis.
49ers I see Frank Gore/ Patrick Willis.

JMO. I think QB is extremely important but the QB season this year (especially as of late) has been superior to the RB and LT play.

scar988
12-30-2007, 09:09 PM
I think we need a RB also. Warrick Dunn will either be cut or get a paycut and play Kevin Faulk. Jerious Norwood will be Jerious Norwood and then the draftee will handle about 200 carries.

Ex.

James Davis- 200 carries (Snelling+Ovie Mughelli 19 carries this year)
Jerious Norwood- 120 carries (102 this year)
Warrick Dunn- 60 carries (227 this year)

So your looking at 350 carries this year basically and 380-400 next year. Warrick has a big cap hit but he can catch the ball, block, and be a leader so I'm not sure what we do with him. Most rookies can't block or catch like him so I dunno. I hope he can take a paycut.
I think we need a RB but not first round. I think you can get a RB in the 3rd round or later and be perfectly ok because a RB is more about the OL than the RB. get a pair of good OT's, and Norwood can do the 150 carries a game, and the new guy can split with him doign the other 150. honestly, I wanna see Jason Snelling get a chance. he looked great when we put him in durign the season even with the bad OL. I wanna see what he can do when our OL is better after this next offseason. I think Snelling (150) Norwood (150) and Dunn (50-70) or drafting another FB/RB type like a Brian Leonard and giving him 50-100 carries, but waiting until the mid rounds for RB.

d34ng3l021
12-30-2007, 09:18 PM
If we take Matt Ryan with pick number 3 (which is what I think we have), I will be so pissed off.

I want either McFadden, J. Long, or Glenn Dorsey.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 09:19 PM
I think we need a RB but not first round. I think you can get a RB in the 3rd round or later and be perfectly ok because a RB is more about the OL than the RB. get a pair of good OT's, and Norwood can do the 150 carries a game, and the new guy can split with him doign the other 150. honestly, I wanna see Jason Snelling get a chance. he looked great when we put him in durign the season even with the bad OL. I wanna see what he can do when our OL is better after this next offseason. I think Snelling (150) Norwood (150) and Dunn (50-70) or drafting another FB/RB type like a Brian Leonard and giving him 50-100 carries, but waiting until the mid rounds for RB.

I can't see Snelling getting that load.

I doubt we pass on McFadden now. I think Jake Long would be a better pick, but the management would take too much fire for passing on Darren McFadden. He'll be the pick. If McFadden's not on the board it is Jake Long or Matt Ryan. I can't see us taking Matt Ryan at pick 3 but apparently Falcons fans are the only ones who feel that way.

porter20
12-30-2007, 09:26 PM
I say take McFadden now and then wait for QB next year. I'm expecting Tim Tebow or Matthew Stafford will be available for the draft next year. Both have way more potential than the likes of Ryan and Brohm.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 09:27 PM
Eh, I don't know about waiting for next year. They are both Juniors and expecting they will come out or be available when we pick is risky.

Don Killuminati
12-30-2007, 09:29 PM
I think Petrino brought in his college offensive line coach...sigh

And probably saved Lane Kiffin's job in the process.

Scott Wright
12-30-2007, 09:52 PM
Running back is one of the few positions where the Falcons don't need help



Proof you have no idea what you are talking about.

What a great argument! That is becoming the type of insightful commentary I have come to expect from Falcon fans on this matter.

The FACTS are that Atlanta is averaging 4.2 yards per rush this year (including 6.3 avg. by Jerious Norwood) and this is considered a "down" year. Over the past 3-5 years there are very few, if any, teams that have run the ball better than the Falcons.

Now would I completely rule out Atlanta taking Darren McFadden? Absolutely not. However it is obvious that running backs isn't one of their top three needs.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 09:57 PM
What a great argument! That is becoming the type of insightful commentary I have come to expect from Falcon fans on this matter.

The FACTS are that Atlanta is averaging 4.2 yards per rush this year (including 6.3 avg. by Jerious Norwood) and this is considered a "down" year. Over the past 3-5 years there are very few, if any, teams that have run the ball better than the Falcons.

Now would I completely rule out Atlanta taking Darren McFadden? Absolutely not. However it is obvious that running backs isn't one of their top three needs.

Please name them then.

Oh, Jerious Norwood had 6.1 yards per carry? I've said that 5 times. I've also said he got injured his rookie year and missed games (also had nagging injuries) and he missed games this year (also had nagging injuries). On how many touches? Roughly 100 rushes and 20/40 catches. PLEASE, tell me what makes you think he can carry the load.

Warrick Dunn averaged 3.2 yards per carry this year. I invite you to tell me what makes you think he can carry the load anymore.

Jason Snelling and Ovie Mughelli. Tell me what makes you think they can carry the load.

Please tell me why 'running back is one of the few positions where the Falcons do not need help'.

Now, looking at it you will probably say we can grab a RB in rounds 2 or later. Definitely. But that is not the point. You say, and have said many times, that RB is not a top 3 need. So tell me what our top 3 needs are.

JDB7821
12-30-2007, 09:58 PM
smart, call out the guy who has the most proof that he has an idea what hes talkign about.....

i honestly have no idea what the hell you could even be thinking.. running back is obviously a position the falcons wont go with round one...

"cold beer" or warm water..

No, he doesn't have the proof. Warrick Dunn's yard per carry to end the season: 3.2. Are you kidding me? What proof can you give me that says we are set at running back? Was it Jason Snelling's -2 yards today? Sure, Norwood looks good in a highlight film, but why is it that Jim Mora, Bobby Petrino, and now Emmitt Thomas ALL thought it was best to keep Dunn the starter, even with that horrible average? And if Michael Vick had the "injury prone" label, then Norwood definitely does.

Why is it that you think it's only the Falcons fans that have this distorted view on our team? While there's obviously some bias involved, I'm a knowledgeable football fan and I can tell what's going wrong when I see it. I can also guarantee that I've seen more of the Falcons than Scott has, so you can't say he knows that team better than I do. Look at it this way: you have a quarterback that ends the season with a 90 quarterback rating. You also have a running back that ends the season with a 3.2 yards per carry average. Which one do you think is the bigger problem? The fact is, Redman can possibly hold down the quarterback spot for ONE YEAR, while Dunn is old and you simply cannot have that kind of poor production from a starting running back if you want to be competitive.

I'm not saying we have to draft McFadden, but I am saying that if he is on the board we can't pick Matt Ryan over him. Not only is McFadden a better prospect with better production, he's a player in a position of need that has played much more poorly than Chris Redman has. I would take both McFadden and Dorsey over Ryan in a heartbeat.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 10:01 PM
No, he doesn't have the proof. Warrick Dunn's yard per carry to end the season: 3.2. Are you kidding me? What proof can you give me that says we are set at running back? Was it Jason Snelling's -2 yards today? Sure, Norwood looks good in a highlight film, but why is it that Jim Mora, Bobby Petrino, and now Emmitt Thomas ALL thought it was best to keep Dunn the starter, even with that horrible average? And if Michael Vick had the "injury prone" label, then Norwood definitely does.

Why is it that you think it's only the Falcons fans that have this distorted view on our team? While there's obviously some bias involved, I'm a knowledgeable football fan and I can tell what's going wrong when I see it. I can also guarantee that I've seen more of the Falcons than Scott has, so you can't say he knows that team better than I do. Look at it this way: you have a quarterback that ends the season with a 90 quarterback rating. You also have a running back that ends the season with a 3.2 yards per carry average. Which one do you think is the bigger problem? The fact is, Redman can possibly hold down the quarterback spot for ONE YEAR, while Dunn is old and you simply cannot have that kind of poor production from a starting running back if you want to be competitive.

I'm not saying we have to draft McFadden, but I am saying that if he is on the board we can't pick Matt Ryan over him. Not only is McFadden a better prospect with better production, he's a player in a position of need that has played much more poorly than Chris Redman has. I would take both McFadden and Dorsey over Ryan in a heartbeat.

For some odd reason they think Jerious Norwood, who gets injured with under 150 touches a year, can handle 250+ touches.

scar988
12-30-2007, 10:04 PM
I can't see Snelling getting that load.

I doubt we pass on McFadden now. I think Jake Long would be a better pick, but the management would take too much fire for passing on Darren McFadden. He'll be the pick. If McFadden's not on the board it is Jake Long or Matt Ryan. I can't see us taking Matt Ryan at pick 3 but apparently Falcons fans are the only ones who feel that way.

my sources within the Falcons say he is barely a top 10 prospect this year. that we have multiple players at positions higher rated and one ofwhich is Jake Long, another of which is Darren McFadden. Considering how McKay drafts is BPA at spots with need, us getting McFadden and Long are a lot mroe likely than the reach on Ryan.

JDB7821
12-30-2007, 10:05 PM
What a great argument! That is becoming the type of insightful commentary I have come to expect from Falcon fans on this matter.

The FACTS are that Atlanta is averaging 4.2 yards per rush this year (including 6.3 avg. by Jerious Norwood) and this is considered a "down" year. Over the past 3-5 years there are very few, if any, teams that have run the ball better than the Falcons.

Now would I completely rule out Atlanta taking Darren McFadden? Absolutely not. However it is obvious that running backs isn't one of their top three needs.

Again, this is more proof that you don't know the team as well as you think you do. Do you think it's a coincidence that the same year Michael Vick doesn't play we have such a dropoff in rushing? Do you also think it's a coincidence that the same year we throw out the zone blocking scheme, which has helped Denver use undrafted guys for a while now, we have such a dropoff in rushing? Do you honestly not think that Michael Vick and the zone blocking scheme helped Warrick Dunn do as well as he did? It's not even Vick's rushing numbers thrown in there, but when you usually have one guy spying or at least the defensive end trying to contain Vick when he rolls out after handing it off, that's one less guy that Dunn had to beat. Now with a stationary quarterback who doesn't roll out or present any kind of threat of rushing, that extra guy can key in on the running back.

You're a master at scouting guys, I know this and I have serious respect for you. And since we know this, what is it about Norwood that makes him not able to carry the load? He's get injured (he was laid out for a second today, even), he can't pass block, and there's questions about his ability to run inside. They might not be as genius as Bill Belichick, but Mora, Petrino, and Thomas have been around the NFL for a long time. They see Norwood every day at practice and not a single one of them have thought it would help the team more to start Norwood every game and give him 20 carries. There's more to being a great running back than being able to outrun guys 5 plays a game.

Flyboy
12-30-2007, 10:06 PM
No, he doesn't have the proof. Warrick Dunn's yard per carry to end the season: 3.2. Are you kidding me? What proof can you give me that says we are set at running back? Was it Jason Snelling's -2 yards today? Sure, Norwood looks good in a highlight film, but why is it that Jim Mora, Bobby Petrino, and now Emmitt Thomas ALL thought it was best to keep Dunn the starter, even with that horrible average? And if Michael Vick had the "injury prone" label, then Norwood definitely does.

Why is it that you think it's only the Falcons fans that have this distorted view on our team? While there's obviously some bias involved, I'm a knowledgeable football fan and I can tell what's going wrong when I see it. I can also guarantee that I've seen more of the Falcons than Scott has, so you can't say he knows that team better than I do. Look at it this way: you have a quarterback that ends the season with a 90 quarterback rating. You also have a running back that ends the season with a 3.2 yards per carry average. Which one do you think is the bigger problem? The fact is, Redman can possibly hold down the quarterback spot for ONE YEAR, while Dunn is old and you simply cannot have that kind of poor production from a starting running back if you want to be competitive.

I'm not saying we have to draft McFadden, but I am saying that if he is on the board we can't pick Matt Ryan over him. Not only is McFadden a better prospect with better production, he's a player in a position of need that has played much more poorly than Chris Redman has. I would take both McFadden and Dorsey over Ryan in a heartbeat.

I think the main point is that because QB is such dire position in the league and is valued so highly that the Falcons will probably take a QB with their first pick even if that QB isn't the BPA.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 10:08 PM
Yeah, Norwood is great in his current role. Make big plays running and catching the ball. Let him be fresh and change the pace up while the defenders are still tierd.

He is not a feature back, and maybe that is for the best because he plays an important role as it is.

Scott Wright
12-30-2007, 10:10 PM
Considering how McKay drafts is BPA at spots with need, us getting McFadden and Long are a lot mroe likely than the reach on Ryan.


The problem is McKay isn't going to be making the call anymore, they are bringing in a new general manager.

BTW, the Falcons top three needs are quarterback, left tackle and defensive tackle.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 10:11 PM
I think the main point is that because QB is such dire position in the league and is valued so highly that the Falcons will probably take a QB with their first pick even if that QB isn't the BPA.

Scott has said we will not take McFadden. He has essentially 2 reasons.

1. QB is a bigger need than RB on the Falcons.
2. RB is not a top 3 need on the Falcons.

1 is wrong as far as this past year is concerned. Joey Harrington and Chris Redman both outplayed Dunn this year, Redman was a pleasent surprise. Warrick Dunn might be more of a household name but he did not perform as well as Chris Redman this year. The backup RB (Jerious Norwood) is also incapable of carrying the load by all accounts. So point 1 is wrong.

2 is wrong and I have went over that already.

JDB7821
12-30-2007, 10:13 PM
I think the main point is that because QB is such dire position in the league and is valued so highly that the Falcons will probably take a QB with their first pick even if that QB isn't the BPA.

And I also guarantee that there are plenty of teams in the league that would take a quarterback who can give you a 90 quarterback rating under the worst circumstances a team has ever faced. There's no way you can say that a veteran presence who is capable of hanging with a playoff team like Seattle with a 4-12 team around him is not suitable to hold on to the job for one single year.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 10:13 PM
The problem is McKay isn't going to be making the call anymore, they are bringing in a new general manager.

BTW, the Falcons top three needs are quarterback, left tackle and defensive tackle.

I invite you to show me how QB or DT had a worse performance last year than RB. I showed the stats. Warrick Dunn is old and has not performed, Jerious Norwood can not handle the load, and Jason Snelling and anyone else on the roster are not worth consideration when talking about carrying a load.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 10:15 PM
And I also guarantee that there are plenty of teams in the league that would take a quarterback who can give you a 90 quarterback rating under the worst circumstances a team has ever faced. There's no way you can say that a veteran presence who is capable of hanging with a playoff team like Seattle with a 4-12 team around him is not suitable to hold on to the job for one single year.

Oh, and before someone says the backups were in...

1. Many of Seattle's defensive starters were playing well into the 4th quarter.
2. Chris Redman had 4/5 games with a passer rating over 85.
3. His passer rating is over 100 if you take out the Tampa Bay game (0.0 passer rating)

EDIT:

I want to make it clear I do not want to put the Falcons future on him. But I will say he performed well enough to take McFadden over Matt Ryan. And that he now deserves a chance to start next season.

MidSouthRam
12-30-2007, 10:15 PM
The problem is McKay isn't going to be making the call anymore, they are bringing in a new general manager.

BTW, the Falcons top three needs are quarterback, left tackle and defensive tackle.

Of course, needs don't determine the best players available at a team's selection.

JDB7821
12-30-2007, 10:18 PM
I invite you to show me how QB or DT had a worse performance last year than RB. I showed the stats. Warrick Dunn is old and has not performed, Jerious Norwood can not handle the load, and Jason Snelling and anyone else on the roster are not worth consideration when talking about carrying a load.

Not to mention, there's hardly a soul on this board outside of Falcons fans that have heard the name Trey Lewis. He was playing exceptionally well at NT until he got hurt and was easily one of the gems of our draft. He was doing exactly what was asked of him and if he can come back healthy and do that again, I'd still put running back above DT.

Edit: I am also not saying I want to bank our future on him. That's why I have said for ONE season. There's no way next year's crop of quarterbacks is going to be much worse than this one and if we have McFadden on our team and we can grab a quarterback next year of equal talent as a Matt Ryan or Brian Brohm, then I would feel much better about it.

Flyboy
12-30-2007, 10:20 PM
And I also guarantee that there are plenty of teams in the league that would take a quarterback who can give you a 90 quarterback rating under the worst circumstances a team has ever faced. There's no way you can say that a veteran presence who is capable of hanging with a playoff team like Seattle with a 4-12 team around him is not suitable to hold on to the job for one single year.

I think you're putting too much stock into Chris Redman. He played well down the stretch for sure, but he isn't Atlanta's future by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, you can always say take the BPA in the first round and then take a QB in the later rounds (like Miami did last year), but I don't see Atlanta doing that this year.

JDB7821
12-30-2007, 10:24 PM
I think you're putting too much stock into Chris Redman. He played well down the stretch for sure, but he isn't Atlanta's future by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, you can always say take the BPA in the first round and then take a QB in the later rounds (like Miami did last year), but I don't see Atlanta doing that this year.

I answered that in my edit, but I'll say it again. I'm not talking about the future with Chris Redman, I am talking about next season and next season alone. He has shown that he is capable of giving us one season starting and with Darren McFadden behind him, our offense would be that much better. Then we draft a quarterback next season who has the benefit of having an experienced McFadden to hand off to and potentially great Roddy White to throw to.

scar988
12-30-2007, 10:26 PM
The problem is McKay isn't going to be making the call anymore, they are bringing in a new general manager.

BTW, the Falcons top three needs are quarterback, left tackle and defensive tackle.
Scott. I know what the Falcons ******* needs are. I'm not a ******* moron. I know my own god damn team. but to say that we are guaranteed on a new GM isn't reading the entire situation right. McKay is the GM unless we can find someone who we feel is better. and even still he will always havea hand in the draft.

georgiafan
12-30-2007, 10:27 PM
Hopefully the falcons will take Mcfadden/Long then trade back into the 1st for a QB and make everyone happy

Flyboy
12-30-2007, 10:28 PM
I answered that in my edit, but I'll say it again. I'm not talking about the future with Chris Redman, I am talking about next season and next season alone. He has shown that he is capable of giving us one season starting and with Darren McFadden behind him, our offense would be that much better. Then we draft a quarterback next season who has the benefit of having an experienced McFadden to hand off to and potentially great Roddy White to throw to.

I understand your logic and reasoning, however, I feel you're being too optimistic in what you WANT to happen opposed to what will actually happen.

Don Killuminati
12-30-2007, 10:35 PM
I'm genuinely surprised that Scott is getting into it with these guys. I've tried to get him to argue with me for years, under two different accounts, and he just bigtimes me.

I feel so unloved.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-30-2007, 10:37 PM
Please name them then.

Oh, Jerious Norwood had 6.1 yards per carry? I've said that 5 times. I've also said he got injured his rookie year and missed games (also had nagging injuries) and he missed games this year (also had nagging injuries). On how many touches? Roughly 100 rushes and 20/40 catches. PLEASE, tell me what makes you think he can carry the load.

And you need an elite RB prospect to split the load because..? And before you mention the vikings, please note that atrocious QB play from a Second Round pick is the reason they're not in the playoffs...

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 10:40 PM
And you need an elite RB prospect to split the load because..? And before you mention the vikings, please note that atrocious QB play from a Second Round pick is the reason they're not in the playoffs...

The arguement was over if RB was a need. Not if one could be had later. As a whole it is on McFadden but in that segment I said...


Please tell me why 'running back is one of the few positions where the Falcons do not need help'.

Now, looking at it you will probably say we can grab a RB in rounds 2 or later. Definitely. But that is not the point. You say, and have said many times, that RB is not a top 3 need. So tell me what our top 3 needs are.

And, I would say there is a big difference between the learning curve of Colt Brennan/ Chad Henne/ Erik Ainge and Tarvaris Jackson. I would also say Tarvaris Jackson has shown marked improvement this year.

JDB7821
12-30-2007, 10:43 PM
And you need an elite RB prospect to split the load because..? And before you mention the vikings, please note that atrocious QB play from a Second Round pick is the reason they're not in the playoffs...

It doesn't have to be McFadden, it could be a guy like Choice or Mendenhall if he's there in the 2nd. My debate is over whether or not we have a bigger need at running back vs. quarterback and the pro potential of McFadden vs. Ryan. I think the need of running back and the potential of McFadden is much more than the need of a quarterback and the potential of Ryan.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-30-2007, 10:46 PM
And, I would say there is a big difference between the learning curve of Colt Brennan/ Chad Henne/ Erik Ainge and Tarvaris Jackson. I would also say Tarvaris Jackson has shown marked improvement this year.

There is no guarantee Brennan makes it to Round 2.

And if you take Henne/Ainge I'll give mercy to Falcons' Fans, because even though I think Matt Ryan will be a slightly above average NFL QB, I think even less of those two.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 10:51 PM
There is no guarantee Brennan makes it to Round 2.

And if you take Henne/Ainge I'll give mercy to Falcons' Fans, because even though I think Matt Ryan will be a slightly above average NFL QB, I think even less of those two.

I did not say they will be world beaters, I said the learning curve will be less for them than Tarvaris Jackson.

I think they are inferior to Matt Ryan as well (although not by much), but they would likely not start in their rookie year.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 10:51 PM
There is no guarantee Brennan makes it to Round 2.

And if you take Henne/Ainge I'll give mercy to Falcons' Fans, because even though I think Matt Ryan will be a slightly above average NFL QB, I think even less of those two.

I did not say they will be world beaters, I said the learning curve will be less for them than Tarvaris Jackson.

I think they are inferior to Matt Ryan as well (although not by much), but they would likely not start in their rookie year.

scar988
12-30-2007, 11:20 PM
I'm genuinely surprised that Scott is getting into it with these guys. I've tried to get him to argue with me for years, under two different accounts, and he just bigtimes me.

I feel so unloved.

um there's a difference, Falcons fans don't care who you are. when we all agree on a concensus of what actually makes sense, then it's pointless for someone to try and argue different. Not Kiper, Wright or anyone else.

Scott Wright
12-30-2007, 11:20 PM
I feel you're being too optimistic in what you WANT to happen opposed to what will actually happen.


I think this is the best analysis yet. Could the Falcons use Darren McFadden? Sure they could. Heck, he'd be an upgrade for 90% of the teams in the league. However, time has shown again and again that you can get running backs later in the draft or even as undrafted free agents (Ryan Grant) so it just does not make sense for a team like Atlanta to invest a Top 3-5 pick and $30 million in a running back when this probably going to be the strongest draft for that position in a decade. Oh, and as I pointed out the chances of getting a stud quarterback in round two or three is about 3%.

The bottom line is you can get a great (not good, great) running back later in the draft but the odds are REALLY against you finding even an above average starting quarterback. As I have said all along I am not ruling out the Falcons taking McFadden but I don't think that will happen and if they do I will be highly critical of the move.

Scott Wright
12-30-2007, 11:21 PM
um there's a difference, Falcons fans don't care who you are. when we all agree on a concensus of what actually makes sense, then it's pointless for someone to try and argue different. Not Kiper, Wright or anyone else.


I am pretty confident that Falcon fans are the only ones who think McFadden should be Atlanta's pick... The consensus among everyone else is that they need to take a quarterback.

Flyboy
12-30-2007, 11:25 PM
Atlanta trades with Buffalo for J.P. Losman and then selects McFadden in the draft.

Everyone is happy, YAY! (Except me as I'm a Saints fan and don't want D-Mac in the NFC South)

SuperKevin
12-30-2007, 11:26 PM
I'm in shock that some people actually want Chris Redman to be their starter. This guy was out of the league for a reason. He's a bum.

SuperKevin
12-30-2007, 11:27 PM
Atlanta trades with Buffalo for J.P. Losman and then selects McFadden in the draft.

Everyone is happy, YAY! (Except me as I'm a Saints fan and don't want D-Mac in the NFC South)

As a Bills fan I only want to part with JP for a 2nd round pick or better. Trent Edwards' lack of ability in bad weather scares me.

VoteLynnSwan
12-30-2007, 11:28 PM
i don't understand why people get so worked up about one person's mock draft... it really gets ridiculous... So much happens between now and the draft, and people thinking that they know anything about what is actually going to happen are just fooling themselves.

scar988
12-30-2007, 11:33 PM
I think this is the best analysis yet. Could the Falcons use Darren McFadden? Sure they could. Heck, he'd be an upgrade for 90% of the teams in the league. However, time has shown again and again that you can get running backs later in the draft or even as undrafted free agents (Ryan Grant) so it just does not make sense for a team like Atlanta to invest a Top 3-5 pick and $30 million in a running back when this probably going to be the strongest draft for that position in a decade. Oh, and as I pointed out the chances of getting a stud quarterback in round two or three is about 3%.

The bottom line is you can get a great (not good, great) running back later in the draft but the odds are REALLY against you finding even an above average starting quarterback. As I have said all along I am not ruling out the Falcons taking McFadden but I don't think that will happen and if they do I will be highly critical of the move.
about 3%? hmmm. did you ever think that every draft is different? in the 2007 draft Trent Edwards was a 2rd rounder.just because you have stat evidence of what happened IN THE PAST, doesn't mean it WILL ABSOLUTELY be the same in the future. For all we know in the next 10 years 3% of 1st round QB's will be good and 50% of the 2nd roundrs will be pro bowlers. it's all a crapshoot and no stats fro mthe past can prove anything for the future.
I am pretty confident that Falcon fans are the only ones who think McFadden should be Atlanta's pick... The consensus among everyone else is that they need to take a quarterback.
and it's funny cause I know people in the organization who tell me they will take the BPA as long as it fits a need because we don't draft by biggest position of need, but by BPA at need spots. and right now no QB is worth the #3 pick
Atlanta trades with Buffalo for J.P. Losman and then selects McFadden in the draft.

Everyone is happy, YAY! (Except me as I'm a Saints fan and don't want D-Mac in the NFC South)
lol, I like Losman but he does too much of focusing on just one target.
I'm in shock that some people actually want Chris Redman to be their starter. This guy was out of the league for a reason. He's a bum.
really? I find it funnythat the only reason why he was cut from the Ravens in the first place was he was having trouble rehabbing from a back injury.

yo123
12-30-2007, 11:33 PM
um there's a difference, Falcons fans don't care who you are. when we all agree on a concensus of what actually makes sense, then it's pointless for someone to try and argue different. Not Kiper, Wright or anyone else.



But the thing you dont realize is other fans dont view you as the be all end all of Falcon knowledge. Other well rounded fans know about your team too so dont act like your the king of all that is the Atlanta Falcons. Just like in every mock draft when you tear every Falcons pick to pieces and say that you 100% know that this is going to happen, or this isnt going to happen.

yo123
12-30-2007, 11:34 PM
um there's a difference, Falcons fans don't care who you are. when we all agree on a concensus of what actually makes sense, then it's pointless for someone to try and argue different. Not Kiper, Wright or anyone else.



But the thing you dont realize is other fans dont view you as the be all end all of Falcon knowledge. Other well rounded fans know about your team too so dont act like your the king of all that is the Atlanta Falcons. Just like in every mock draft when you tear every Falcons pick to pieces and say that you 100% know that this is going to happen, or this isnt going to happen. You dont know for a fact, neither does anyone else so please get off your damn high horse.

DaBear89
12-30-2007, 11:36 PM
I am pretty confident that Falcon fans are the only ones who think McFadden should be Atlanta's pick... The consensus among everyone else is that they need to take a quarterback.

im pretty sure most Atl fans would agree that they need a QB of the Future. DMac could do a lot more for a franchise than Matt Ryan. Please no1 takes what im about to say as racist either. Due to the Vick situation, many of the ticket holders, who are black, want a new face of the franchise. A white QB from New England isnt som1 who the majority will be able to identify with. A black RB from the south is a guy they can be personable with and accept into their community, much the way the saints did with reggie bush. QB and Rb are both positions of need for them but DMac at 3/4/5 is better value than Ryan at any of those spots. with their 2 2nd rounders its not like their not in a position to trade up if Brohm/Woodson falls.

scar988
12-30-2007, 11:36 PM
But the thing you dont realize is other fans dont view you as the be all end all of Falcon knowledge. Other well rounded fans know about your team too so dont act like your the king of all that is the Atlanta Falcons. Just like in every mock draft when you tear every Falcons pick to pieces and say that you 100% know that this is going to happen, or this isnt going to happen. You dont know for a fact, neither does anyone else so please get off your damn high horse.

lol, I just find it funny how people don't give us needs. do I say that I know exactly who the pick is? no. but have a better knowledge of what it's going to be. I also have a basic common sense that Atlanta doesn't follow the basic idea of hey let's go by biggest need regardless of value. because we don't want busts liek Alex Smith on our team.

scar988
12-30-2007, 11:38 PM
im pretty sure most Atl fans would agree that they need a QB of the Future. DMac could do a lot more for a franchise than Matt Ryan. Please no1 takes what im about to say as racist either. Due to the Vick situation, many of the ticket holders, who are black, want a new face of the franchise. A white QB from New England isnt som1 who the majority will be able to identify with. A black RB from the south is a guy they can be personable with and accept into their community, much the way the saints did with reggie bush. QB and Rb are both positions of need for them but DMac at 3/4/5 is better value than Ryan at any of those spots. with their 2 2nd rounders its not like their not in a position to trade up if Brohm/Woodson falls.
THANK YOU! it's not hard to see this. it's called common logic:
weak top QB's.
stronger positions at OT and RB.
needs at OT, RB, and QB (and NT if Dorsey falls)
will take BPA between QB, RB, OT and NT spots. if the BPA is a QB then wego QB, otherwise it won't it's not that hard.

Flyboy
12-30-2007, 11:41 PM
im pretty sure most Atl fans would agree that they need a QB of the Future. DMac could do a lot more for a franchise than Matt Ryan. Please no1 takes what im about to say as racist either. Due to the Vick situation, many of the ticket holders, who are black, want a new face of the franchise. A white QB from New England isnt som1 who the majority will be able to identify with. A black RB from the south is a guy they can be personable with and accept into their community, much the way the saints did with reggie bush. QB and Rb are both positions of need for them but DMac at 3/4/5 is better value than Ryan at any of those spots. with their 2 2nd rounders its not like their not in a position to trade up if Brohm/Woodson falls.

Don't compare us to your situation. First of all, we signed Drew Brees in the offseason before the draft which pretty much meant we weren't going to take Matt Leinart (who we would have drafted had we not signed Brees). Deuce McAllister had also torn his ACL that year and we didn't know if he would be able to play again. At the time, selecting Bush at the time made perfect sense and he was the BPA. Even to this day, I'm happy that we took him. Atlanta doesn't have that luxury unless they address the QB position in the offseason.

DaBear89
12-30-2007, 11:43 PM
Don't compare us to your situation. First of all, we signed Drew Brees in the offseason before the draft which pretty much meant we weren't going to take Matt Leinart (who we would have drafted had we not signed Brees). Deuce McAllister had also torn his ACL that year and we didn't know if he would be able to play again. At the time, selecting Bush at the time made perfect sense and he was the BPA. Even to this day, I'm happy that we took him. Atlanta doesn't have that luxury unless they address the QB position in the offseason.

next time read my user name...im not a saints fan or a falcons fanand i wasnt comparing the saints and falcons. more so i was comparing the way the community would accept Dmac the way NO accepted bush

Number 10
12-30-2007, 11:45 PM
Scar you're out of hand, plain and simple.

It is way too early for you to say so and so HAS to be your pick. I like McFadden to the Falcons and honestly, I think I am going to put him there when I work on my mock tomorrow. But to say Ryan, maybe eveb Brohom 100% won't be your pick is stupid. Fans are almost always wrong as a concencus when it comes to the draft....so that point in your argument is no good.

You need to learn how to become more accepting of other views, you are being blinded by your own fantasies.

Flyboy
12-30-2007, 11:47 PM
next time read my user name...im not a saints fan or a falcons fanand i wasnt comparing the saints and falcons. more so i was comparing the way the community would accept Dmac the way NO accepted bush

We didn't draft Bush simply because he was black. We didn't have a QB issue (even with the injury) to worry about.

scar988
12-30-2007, 11:47 PM
Don't compare us to your situation. First of all, we signed Drew Brees in the offseason before the draft which pretty much meant we weren't going to take Matt Leinart (who we would have drafted had we not signed Brees). Deuce McAllister had also torn his ACL that year and we didn't know if he would be able to play again. At the time, selecting Bush at the time made perfect sense and he was the BPA. Even to this day, I'm happy that we took him. Atlanta doesn't have that luxury unless they address the QB position in the offseason.

Are you kidding me? we can take a QB later on in the draft. no matter who we take they wil sit for a year behind Chris Redman. ALSO, the RB situation is more dire. Dunn is likely to be cut for cap reasons, and Norwood is a COP guy only. so I wouldn't say we have a starting RB exactly. notto mention OT is a HUGE need with Gandy sucking. so who would you rather have.

QB Redman
RB Norwood
LT Renardo Foster
(if we draft Ryan)

OR

QB Redman
RB Norwood
LT Long
(if we draft Jake Long)

OR

QB Redman
RB McFadden
LT Renardo Foster
(if we draft McFadden)

now granted these situations are all beofre a 2nd round pick but it's not hard to see that we will go BPA at a need spot instead of just going with biggest need (which would be franchise LT, NOT QB)

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 11:48 PM
I think this is the best analysis yet. Could the Falcons use Darren McFadden? Sure they could. Heck, he'd be an upgrade for 90% of the teams in the league. However, time has shown again and again that you can get running backs later in the draft or even as undrafted free agents (Ryan Grant) so it just does not make sense for a team like Atlanta to invest a Top 3-5 pick and $30 million in a running back when this probably going to be the strongest draft for that position in a decade. Oh, and as I pointed out the chances of getting a stud quarterback in round two or three is about 3%.

The bottom line is you can get a great (not good, great) running back later in the draft but the odds are REALLY against you finding even an above average starting quarterback. As I have said all along I am not ruling out the Falcons taking McFadden but I don't think that will happen and if they do I will be highly critical of the move.

I think I've proven that RB is a need, and you were oblivious to that until someone basically spelled it out to you. So I'll assume you don't know what is best for the Falcons.

I am pretty confident that Falcon fans are the only ones who think McFadden should be Atlanta's pick... The consensus among everyone else is that they need to take a quarterback.

Wow, pretty amazing Falcons fans watch the games while in all liklihood almost noone else does. Actually I know most people don't because they still feel we have no need at runningback.

And Scott, I trust you on most things obviously because this is the only National Football League Draft website I use. But you are wrong saying we have no need at RB.

I'm in shock that some people actually want Chris Redman to be their starter. This guy was out of the league for a reason. He's a bum.

We want to give him a shot. Not proclaim him the future of our franchise.

And I'm sorry 'bums' don't have a 90+ passer rating in a season in which they received significant playing time (would be 100 without horrible Tampa Bay game with 0.0 passer rating). Bums don't have 4/5 games with a 85+ passer rating. And don't say something ignorant like he played backups. He played starters in every game and even the Seahawks played defensive starters well into the 4th quarter if not the whole game. And a 'bum' definitely can't do this with a bad offensive line and a generally bad running game.

DaBear89
12-30-2007, 11:49 PM
We didn't draft Bush simply because he was black. We didn't have a QB issue (even with the injury) to worry about.

again im not saying u drafted him b/c hes black. im saying he got drafted, and became luved...i believe the same would happen in ATL w/ Dmac

Flyboy
12-30-2007, 11:50 PM
Oh, gosh. This is just becoming redundant.

scar988
12-30-2007, 11:50 PM
Scar you're out of hand, plain and simple.

It is way too early for you to say so and so HAS to be your pick. I like McFadden to the Falcons and honestly, I think I am going to put him there when I work on my mock tomorrow. But to say Ryan, maybe eveb Brohom 100% won't be your pick is stupid. Fans are almost always wrong as a concencus when it comes to the draft....so that point in your argument is no good.

You need to learn how to become more accepting of other views, you are being blinded by your own fantasies.are you kidding me? I'm saying we'll go with who we have at BPA at QB, RB, OT and NT. and right now it's lookign like it's McFadden, then J.Long or Dorsey, then Ryan or Brohm. I will 100% say that a QB will have to vault himself during the combines and prodays in order to be selected at #3 by the Falcons. Because hoenstly RIGHT THIS MINUTE, NO QUARTERBACK IS WORTH THE THIRD PICK I NTHE DRAFT AND WILL NOT BE SELECTED BY THE FALCONS IF THE DRAFT WERE TO BE HELD RIGHT THIS SECOND! IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!

Flyboy
12-30-2007, 11:50 PM
again im not saying u drafted him b/c hes black. im saying he got drafted, and became luved...i believe the same would happen in ATL w/ Dmac

And, if Atlanta picked Brohm/Ryan/Woodson and they were successful, I'm pretty sure they would welcome him as well.

scar988
12-30-2007, 11:52 PM
And, if Atlanta picked Brohm/Ryan/Woodson and they were successful, I'm pretty sure they would welcome him as well.

actually, All Atlanta cares about is winning. if we had a ******** 4 year old at QB and went 19-0 he would be proclaimed Jesus here.

SuperKevin
12-30-2007, 11:52 PM
are you kidding me? I'm saying we'll go with who we have at BPA at QB, RB, OT and NT. and right now it's lookign like it's McFadden, then J.Long or Dorsey, then Ryan or Brohm. I will 100% say that a QB will have to vault himself during the combines and prodays in order to be selected at #3 by the Falcons. Because hoenstly RIGHT THIS MINUTE, NO QUARTERBACK IS WORTH THE THIRD PICK I NTHE DRAFT AND WILL NOT BE SELECTED BY THE FALCONS IF THE DRAFT WERE TO BE HELD RIGHT THIS SECOND! IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!

If you start the season next year with Redman you'll be picking in the top 3 in 2009 as well. i guess everyone in Atlanta is just hoping for Matthew Stafford

DaBear89
12-30-2007, 11:53 PM
And, if Atlanta picked Brohm/Ryan/Woodson and they were successful, I'm pretty sure they would welcome him as well.

yes thats possible, but Dmac would energize the team almost immediately, any of those guys could take a few years b4 that happens.

Number 10
12-30-2007, 11:53 PM
Did you guys hear Scar has never been wrong when it comes to the draft?

hahaha.....He'll learn someday.

JDB7821
12-30-2007, 11:54 PM
I think I've proven that RB is a need, and you were oblivious to that until someone basically spelled it out to you. So I'll assume you don't know what is best for the Falcons.



Wow, pretty amazing Falcons fans watch the games while in all liklihood almost noone else does. Actually I know most people don't because they still feel we have no need at runningback.

And Scott, I trust you on most things obviously because this is the only National Football League Draft website I use. But you are wrong saying we have no need at RB.



We want to give him a shot. Not proclaim him the future of our franchise.

And I'm sorry 'bums' don't have a 90+ passer rating in a season in which they received significant playing time (would be 100 without horrible Tampa Bay game with 0.0 passer rating). Bums don't have 4/5 games with a 85+ passer rating. And don't say something ignorant like he played backups. He played starters in every game and even the Seahawks played defensive starters well into the 4th quarter if not the whole game. And a 'bum' definitely can't do this with a bad offensive line and a generally bad running game.

Bama, you and I seem to be on the exact same page on this one. I don't know if you'll agree with me on this one, but to appease those out there who are so hell bent on making the Falcons select a quarterback, I'll say this. If, from this point on, Matt Ryan or Brian Brohm completely lights up the Senior Bowl, the combine, and any privately held or school workouts they compete in, I would be fine with selecting that quarterback. I'm not against selecting a great quarterback, I'm against selecting only an average quarterback.

BeerBaron
12-30-2007, 11:55 PM
i must say that i've been entertained for hours reading this. thank you all!

Number 10
12-30-2007, 11:56 PM
Falcons fans aren't approaching the draft like the way they should....it's all about long term a la 3-4 years down the road. Not who can bring "immediate excitement" to the table. You guys have a good player in Norwood, you don't need McFadden the way you need a QB.

If you stick with Redman, you'll go for a QB next year and it just makes the rebuilding process delayed by another year.

scar988
12-30-2007, 11:57 PM
Did you guys hear Scar has never been wrong when it comes to the draft?

hahaha.....He'll learn someday.

no I've been wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. but I've been right about who Atlanta will take more often than not. last year I said it was gonna be Levi Brown, Laron Landry, or Jamaal Anderson. and it was Jamaal Anderson. I said it this early that's whoit woudl be too.

This year, I say it's gonna be Jake Long, Darren McFadden, Glenn Dorsey, or whatever QB caults himself to top 3 status. but right now, no QB is lookign like he will do it.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 11:57 PM
If you start the season next year with Redman you'll be picking in the top 3 in 2009 as well. i guess everyone in Atlanta is just hoping for Matthew Stafford

You are being ignorant. You probably think Warrick Dunn is an elite runningback. Names are not everything.

619
12-30-2007, 11:57 PM
again im not saying u drafted him b/c hes black. im saying he got drafted, and became luved...i believe the same would happen in ATL w/ Dmac

A player will identify himself within the community regardless if he plays well and it should not have any effect on their personnel decisions.

SuperKevin
12-30-2007, 11:59 PM
You are being ignorant. You probably think Warrick Dunn is an elite runningback. Names are not everything.

Warrick Dunn was an elite running back at one point. Now he's not. It's my personal opinion that you can have much better luck finding a RB, ESPECIALLY one who is going to split carries, in the later rounds. Chris Redman is garbage and everyone outside of you and your little 3 man circle jerk knows that

scar988
12-30-2007, 11:59 PM
Falcons fans aren't approaching the draft like the way they should....it's all about long term a la 3-4 years down the road. Not who can bring "immediate excitement" to the table. You guys have a good player in Norwood, you don't need McFadden the way you need a QB.

If you stick with Redman, you'll go for a QB next year and it just makes the rebuilding process delayed by another year.

actualyl we're looking mroe long term than immediately. QB is more of an immediate need. RB is more of a franchise thing. get McFadden and Norwood and they will be an amazing duo for years to come. get Ryan and we didn't get the best value for our pick. it's not rocket science. it really isn't. and why would we go QB next year? if we go with Redman for a year it will because we're having the QB sit for a year while he learns the offense. It will also be that QB that we draft as the new QBOTF. not Redman. Redman is only going to be a one year guy.

BamaFalcon59
12-30-2007, 11:59 PM
Bama, you and I seem to be on the exact same page on this one. I don't know if you'll agree with me on this one, but to appease those out there who are so hell bent on making the Falcons select a quarterback, I'll say this. If, from this point on, Matt Ryan or Brian Brohm completely lights up the Senior Bowl, the combine, and any privately held or school workouts they compete in, I would be fine with selecting that quarterback. I'm not against selecting a great quarterback, I'm against selecting only an average quarterback.

Oh, definitely. But I don't think any of them can or will do that. Ryan can't take away what I saw this year. I think Woodson and Brohm are too far behind to make such a jump. But if one of them did step up I would be fine with it. Even if we traded down I would take one if they were good value.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:01 AM
You guys have a good player in Norwood, you don't need McFadden the way you need a QB.

.

Read the whole thread please. We have went over the Norwood situation about 10 times.

In short, he is not durable in a season with less than 150 carries so we can not put our running load on him. We need a runningback at least as much if not more (probably more) than we need a quarterback.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:01 AM
Warrick Dunn was an elite running back at one point. Now he's not. It's my personal opinion that you can have much better luck finding a RB, ESPECIALLY one who is going to split carries, in the later rounds. Chris Redman is garbage and everyone outside of you and your little 3 man circle jerk knows that

Did you know that Chris Redman at one timewas not only a 3rd round pick but the man who the Raens thought would betheir Franchise pick and their starter? did you also know that we are only saying have him play fr a year? we're not sayign we're gonna win a championship with Redman, we're saying we won't go winless with him. we're saying we'll go 5-11 or 6-10 next year. it's a rebuilding process and the QB we draft will sit a year behind him anyway. hence why can't see us going with a QB first round. why draft someone top 5 if they are gonna sit for a year?

DaBear89
12-31-2007, 12:01 AM
A player will identify himself within the community regardless if he plays well and it should not have any effect on their personnel decisions.

tell that to the businessmen who run teams. player A provides us possible elite talent but may not be a figurehead of our team. player B provides the same but immediately will boost our jersey sales and bring back our season ticket holders who left cause our star is in jail.

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 12:02 AM
Did you know that Chris Redman at one timewas not only a 3rd round pick but the man who the Raens thought would betheir Franchise pick and their starter? did you also know that we are only saying have him play fr a year? we're not sayign we're gonna win a championship with Redman, we're saying we won't go winless with him. we're saying we'll go 5-11 or 6-10 next year. it's a rebuilding process and the QB we draft will sit a year behind him anyway. hence why can't see us going with a QB first round. why draft someone top 5 if they are gonna sit for a year?

he was a 3rd round pick because of numbers. The same reason why Tim Couch was a number one overall pick.

DaBear89
12-31-2007, 12:03 AM
also, wat is so bad about the QBs available in the 2nd?

Scott Wright
12-31-2007, 12:04 AM
I think I've proven that RB is a need, and you were oblivious to that until someone basically spelled it out to you.

I never said that running back isn't a need, I said it's not one of their top three needs.

about 3%? hmmm. did you ever think that every draft is different? in the 2007 draft Trent Edwards was a 2rd rounder.just because you have stat evidence of what happened IN THE PAST, doesn't mean it WILL ABSOLUTELY be the same in the future. For all we know in the next 10 years 3% of 1st round QB's will be good and 50% of the 2nd roundrs will be pro bowlers. it's all a crapshoot and no stats fro mthe past can prove anything for the future.

You're right, just because the sun came up today doesn't mean it definitely will tomorrow. I like the chances though...

It's not like I have only taken 3 or 5 years into account. I went back 15 years prior to the 2007 NFL Draft and the success rate for actual top-notch NFL quarterbacks is 3%. You can justify it however you want but those are the numbers.

I know people in the organization who tell me they will take the BPA as long as it fits a need because we don't draft by biggest position of need, but by BPA at need spots. and right now no QB is worth the #3 pick

I have yet to see a coach, GM or owner say "Well, we thought Player X was a better player but we took someone else because he fit a need. Every team will insist they did or will take the best player available, it is the ultimate NFL Draft cliche. I bet the Cardinals told people that Levi Brown was the best player available at #5 a year ago.

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 12:04 AM
Why on earth do you want to waste a top 3 pick on a player that will split carries? Yeah the Saints did it but in doing so it probably has set the organization back a few years while they try to figure out how to properly utilize both running backs. You all are going to be screwed when it comes to the salary cap when you realize you're paying 30 million to a guy who doesn't even get an entire workload

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:05 AM
tell that to the businessmen who run teams. player A provides us possible elite talent but may not be a figurehead of our team. player B provides the same but immediately will boost our jersey sales and bring back our season ticket holders who left cause our star is in jail.

I think it is safe to say that Darren McFadden jourseys would sell more than Matt Ryan jourseys.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:06 AM
also, wat is so bad about the QBs available in the 2nd?
According to Scott you will only get a hit 3% of the time. he keeps forgetting (And he should be the one who would know) that every position is a crap shoot. that every year is a new year and that whatever happened in the past drafts is not word for future, that the past drafts have no bearing on who will be good in future drafts.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:07 AM
also, wat is so bad about the QBs available in the 2nd?

Percentages say it is not likely that they succeed so apparently we should not even try to draft a quarterback in round two or three.

Scott Wright
12-31-2007, 12:07 AM
Since I keep referring to it here is that post I made a few days back on the history of quarterbacks selected in round two or three:

I went through and looked it up.

Here is the list of quarterbacks who went in either the 2nd or 3rd round in the 15 years prior to the 2007 NFL Draft.

1992
Matt Blundin
Tony Sacca

1993
Billy Joe Hobert

1994
None

1995
Todd Collins
Kordell Stewart
Stoney Case
Eric Zeier

1996
Tony Banks
Bobby Hoying

1997
Jake Plummer

1998
Charlie Batch
Jonathan Quinn
Brian Griese

1999
Shaun King
Brock Huard

2000
Giovanni Carmazzi
Chris Redman

2001
Drew Brees
Quincy Carter
Marques Tuiasosopo

2002
Josh McCown

2003
Dave Ragone
Chris Simms

2004
Matt Schaub

2005
Charlie Frye
Andrew Walter
David Greene

2006
Kellen Clemens
Tarvaris Jackson
Charlie Whitehurst
Brodie Croyle

Not a single one of those players turned into a great quarterback for the team that drafted them and even if I give you Drew Brees that is just 1 out of 31.

So go ahead and wait for a quarterback in round two or three Falcon fans, you will have a 3% chance of landing a stud.

NYGibril28
12-31-2007, 12:07 AM
Adrian Peterson shares carries. Is anyone going to argue he's not worth the money.

No QB right now is worthy of being a Top 5 pick, and I see where the Falcons fans are coming from. IMO though, OT is more of a need than RB based on the games I've seen.

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 12:08 AM
Percentages say it is not likely that they succeed so apparently we should not even try to draft a quarterback in round two or three.

Maybe it's because if you consider Matt Ryan, Brian brohm, and Andre Woodson to only be "average" QBs then the rest of the guys are downright awful.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-31-2007, 12:09 AM
Adrian Peterson shares carries. Is anyone going to argue he's not worth the money.

Well, The Vikings missed the playoffs because of bad QB play...

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:11 AM
Why on earth do you want to waste a top 3 pick on a player that will split carries? Yeah the Saints did it but in doing so it probably has set the organization back a few years while they try to figure out how to properly utilize both running backs. You all are going to be screwed when it comes to the salary cap when you realize you're paying 30 million to a guy who doesn't even get an entire workload

You are wrong again. Warrick Dunn had over 270 carries this year. I think it is safe to say Darren McFadden would get that and more.

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 12:11 AM
Well, The Vikings missed the playoffs because of bad QB play...

Bingo! Give this man a cookie.

Look at the top teams in the NFL right now and what is the one thing they all have in common? They all have a solid QB at the helm. You cannot expect to be a good team without a good quarterback and Chris Redman is not a good quarterback

DaBear89
12-31-2007, 12:11 AM
who says Dmac will share carries? if he can be the main back and norwood lightens the load, who knos if they could unload dunn un som1 for a late pick

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:11 AM
You're right, just because the sun came up today doesn't mean it definitely will tomorrow. I like the chances though...

It's not like I have only taken 3 or 5 years into account. I went back 15 years prior to the 2007 NFL Draft and the success rate for actual top-notch NFL quarterbacks is 3%. You can justify it however you want but those are the numbers.

I have yet to see a coach, GM or owner say "Well, we thought Player X was a better player but we took someone else because he fit a need. Every team will insist they did or will take the best player available, it is the ultimate NFL Draft cliche. I bet the Cardinals told people that Levi Brown was the best player available at #5 a year ago.

no you go by BPA FOR YOUR NEEDS! that's how Atlanta drafts, that's what I'm tellign you. meaning at #3, we go:
Dorsey
Jake Long
Darren McFadden
OR
IF and big IF, a QB can propel himself to top 3, we then take him.

last year when Atlanta took Jamal Anderson over Okoye, Rich McKay was quote saying that they had identical grades both on the field and in character BUT Jamaal fit more of a need and therefore was selected over Okoye.

Also, just because 15 years of history means it happened the past 15 years, doesn't mean it won't switch forthe next 15. this isn't liek the sun rising this is like who will be the next NFL champion it changes every year (for the most part).

Oh and Levi Brown was the BPA for Arizona's needs. they didn't really need SS LaRon Landry (Adrian Wilson) or RB Adrian Peterson (Edgerinn James). Since Brown fit a need, and was BPA for their needs, he was the pick. it's nto about BPA, it's about BPA for needs.

d34ng3l021
12-31-2007, 12:12 AM
Ok. So heres whats happening:

Scott thinks Atlanta needs a QB so badly they need to reach for him in the top5.

Falcon fans dont approve of this because they dont want to reach for a QB in a weak QB draft and end up like the Niners and Alex Smith. This would set the franchise back 3-5 years.

Scott still thinks the Falcons need a QB SO desperately that we would do this. He thinks getting the best player available (McFadden) would make stud of a RB not as useful.

Falcon fans want a BPA and a player that would be successful no matter what. Falcon fans know that Jerious Norwood cant handle the load. He has never received more than 10 carries this season. I have seen him limping off the field after a tiny hit. He will never be a full time back, but would be a great change of pace guy who can get 15 touches a game. Falcon fans want to pair that up with Darren McFadden who can also handle a load and be a home run hitter as well.

Have I summarized it well?

619
12-31-2007, 12:12 AM
tell that to the businessmen who run teams. player A provides us possible elite talent but may not be a figurehead of our team. player B provides the same but immediately will boost our jersey sales and bring back our season ticket holders who left cause our star is in jail.

If you followed that theory you would without question setback the franchise a couple of years as you would automatically begin ruling certain players out that could have made significant contributions to your team.

NYGibril28
12-31-2007, 12:13 AM
Well, The Vikings missed the playoffs because of bad QB play...

I wasn't arguing which is a bigger need for the Falcons. I was pointing to the idea that McFadden would be a waste of 30 mil because he was sharing carries.

I agree that QB is this team's biggest need, and I agree with most when I say no QB is worth a Top 5 pick.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:13 AM
Maybe it's because if you consider Matt Ryan, Brian brohm, and Andre Woodson to only be "average" QBs then the rest of the guys are downright awful.

I have my own head and view someone as underrated or overrated.

JDB7821
12-31-2007, 12:13 AM
I never said that running back isn't a need, I said it's not one of their top three needs.



You're right, just because the sun came up today doesn't mean it definitely will tomorrow. I like the chances though...

It's not like I have only taken 3 or 5 years into account. I went back 15 years prior to the 2007 NFL Draft and the success rate for actual top-notch NFL quarterbacks is 3%. You can justify it however you want but those are the numbers.



I have yet to see a coach, GM or owner say "Well, we thought Player X was a better player but we took someone else because he fit a need. Every team will insist they did or will take the best player available, it is the ultimate NFL Draft cliche. I bet the Cardinals told people that Levi Brown was the best player available at #5 a year ago.

Then why would you write this about your 2nd round and later prospects?

"...certainly has the talent and physical tools to be a starter in the NFL."
- Chad Henne

"...could develop and he has starting potential."
- John David Booty

"...An underrated prospect with starting potential"
- Erik Ainge

Number 10
12-31-2007, 12:13 AM
Read the whole thread please. We have went over the Norwood situation about 10 times.

In short, he is not durable in a season with less than 150 carries so we can not put our running load on him. We need a runningback at least as much if not more (probably more) than we need a quarterback.

I never said Norwood is an every down option. But you pair him with a decent RB, a Brandon Jacobs-echelon (not saying BJ in particular) and you have yourself a very good rushing attack. If you want me to throw some names out there for post round 1 RB prospects that would do that for you....

Allen Patrick
Ryan Torain
Yvenson Bernard
Andre Callender

and possible free agents such as

Jamal Lewis
Derrick Ward
Michael Turner (or did he get signed long term?)

I just don't think a RB in the top 5 is that logical unless it is can't miss, you have no RB situation. McFadden isn't can't miss in my mind when I consider his legs and Falcons have a decent RB right now.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:14 AM
Since I keep referring to it here is that post I made a few days back on the history of quarterbacks selected in round two or three:

1 out of 31? more like there are multiple QB's who panned out in the 2nd and 3rd round. and we would have kept Schaub had we known about Vick's stupidity.

Jake Plummer
Drew Brees
Matt Schaub
Kellen Clemens

looks like 4 guys to me who have panned out as starters. still ot great odds, but 12% looks much better than 3%.

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 12:14 AM
I have my own head and view someone as underrated or overrated.

Being from Alabama I question your overall intelligence so I'll take that for what it's worth

DaBear89
12-31-2007, 12:14 AM
so if we re-look at scott's list there are a few more "solid" QBs than top notch guys. Plummer, Griese, Shuab, Batch, and possibly som guys from 06 that time will tell. that makes that 3% shoot up a lot more if ur nly looking for a solid

Flyboy
12-31-2007, 12:15 AM
Ok. So heres whats happening:

Scott thinks Atlanta needs a QB so badly they need to reach for him in the top5.

Falcon fans dont approve of this because they dont want to reach for a QB in a weak QB draft and end up like the Niners and Alex Smith. This would set the franchise back 3-5 years.

Scott still thinks the Falcons need a QB SO desperately that we would do this. He thinks getting the best player available (McFadden) would make stud of a RB not as useful.

Falcon fans want a BPA and a player that would be successful no matter what. Falcon fans know that Jerious Norwood cant handle the load. He has never received more than 10 carries this season. I have seen him limping off the field after a tiny hit. He will never be a full time back, but would be a great change of pace guy who can get 15 touches a game. Falcon fans want to pair that up with Darren McFadden who can also handle a load and be a home run hitter as well.

Have I summarized it well?

Ding, ding, ding.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:15 AM
I never said that running back isn't a need, I said it's not one of their top three needs.



Now you can't even remember what you said.

Running back is one of the few positions where the Falcons don't need help so even if McFadden was available it doesn't make a lot of sense to give him $30 million guaranteed when guys like Ryan Grant have proven yet again that it's very easy to find top running backs.



Saying you do not need help is saying you do not have a need.

Flyboy
12-31-2007, 12:16 AM
Why on earth do you want to waste a top 3 pick on a player that will split carries? Yeah the Saints did it but in doing so it probably has set the organization back a few years while they try to figure out how to properly utilize both running backs.

Set our organization back? Ehh, I don't buy that at all.

Iamcanadian
12-31-2007, 12:17 AM
are you kidding me? I'm saying we'll go with who we have at BPA at QB, RB, OT and NT. and right now it's lookign like it's McFadden, then J.Long or Dorsey, then Ryan or Brohm. I will 100% say that a QB will have to vault himself during the combines and prodays in order to be selected at #3 by the Falcons. Because hoenstly RIGHT THIS MINUTE, NO QUARTERBACK IS WORTH THE THIRD PICK I NTHE DRAFT AND WILL NOT BE SELECTED BY THE FALCONS IF THE DRAFT WERE TO BE HELD RIGHT THIS SECOND! IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!

Actually there will be a coin toss for #'s 3, 4 and 5 between Atlanta, Kansas City and Oakland. You could just as easily be drafting #5 as #3.
I do agree that we will have to see the results of the Senior Bowl workouts, the combine and pro days to see where the QB's rank. I believe it is a bit too early to say none of them will be ranked in the top 5. It is not until after the SB that leaks from pro team's draft boards begin to leak out and we begin to get a realistic picture of how pro scouts view the draft. Right now we, along with draft gurus have no real idea of how the real draft boards look. They are speculating based on minimum observation but have nothing to check their opinions against until the leaks start pouring out.
I guarantee you this, that the current perception of the top 5 won't match the scouts top 5. You could see 1 or 2 seniors bumped by juniors before it is all said and done and we will have to see how they view the QB's as well.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:18 AM
Then why would you write this about your 2nd round and later prospects?

"...certainly has the talent and physical tools to be a starter in the NFL."
- Chad Henne

"...could develop and he has starting potential."
- John David Booty

"...An underrated prospect with starting potential"
- Erik Ainge

Lmao. Hahaha.

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 12:18 AM
I'm getting a serious case of Deja Vu here. This is the exact same argument Raiders fans were having last year when they said JaMarcus Russell was 100% not going to be the pick because they had Andrew Walter waiting in the wings.

Scott Wright
12-31-2007, 12:19 AM
Then why would you write this about your 2nd round and later prospects?

"...certainly has the talent and physical tools to be a starter in the NFL."
- Chad Henne

"...could develop and he has starting potential."
- John David Booty

"...An underrated prospect with starting potential"
- Erik Ainge

Notice a common thread there? "Potential". "Has the tools".

And I am not saying you can't get a starting quarterback in round two or three, I am just saying the odds are really stacked against you getting the type of upper echelon guy you can build a team around.

I have never once said that McFadden is out of the picture for Atlanta and am more than willing to admit he's a possibility. Would I agree with it? Absolutely not, but it's possible.

Halsey
12-31-2007, 12:19 AM
The Falcons should pay attention and think twice about drafting a RB with a top 5 pick. RB's don't make as big a difference in wins and losses as they do in hype, jersey sales and stats.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:19 AM
I never said Norwood is an every down option. But you pair him with a decent RB, a Brandon Jacobs-echelon (not saying BJ in particular) and you have yourself a very good rushing attack. If you want me to throw some names out there for post round 1 RB prospects that would do that for you....

Allen Patrick
Ryan Torain
Yvenson Bernard
Andre Callender

and possible free agents such as

Jamal Lewis
Derrick Ward
Michael Turner (or did he get signed long term?)

I just don't think a RB in the top 5 is that logical unless it is can't miss, you have no RB situation. McFadden isn't can't miss in my mind when I consider his legs and Falcons have a decent RB right now.
ahh yes, Free Agency, that's the biggest wild card. hence how I view every draft s if it were today then as if was after FA. for All we know Atlanta gets Jamal Lewis (returnng home to Atlanta), Ryan Starks (to shore up RT, LT still a need, but Wiener can hold the ofrt while the 2nd rounder learns), Albert Haynesworth (now NT isn't a need). in that situation then QB is the biggest need by far, possibly a LT. then we go Jake Long or best QB aailable. but that's FA. FA always changes how things work. and I would love to see Jamal signed with the moneyt we get back from dropping Dunn.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:20 AM
Being from Alabama I question your overall intelligence so I'll take that for what it's worth

I won't start bragging about my intelligence because that's totally off point.

d34ng3l021
12-31-2007, 12:21 AM
Except that we dont have a young QB who could potentially take over. And Russell is a ridiculously good prospect. Matt Ryan is not.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:21 AM
Notice a common thread there? "Potential". "Has the tools".

And I am not saying you can't get a starting quarterback in round two or three, I am just saying the odds are really stacked against you getting the type of upper echelon guy you can build a team around.

I have never once said that McFadden is out of the picture for Atlanta and am more than willing to admit he's a possibility. Would I agree with it? Absolutely not, but it's possible.
Scott, I'm not arguing 100% against a QB. I'm saying we will get the BPA from the positions of need for us. which incudes, QB, RB, LT, RT, and NT. but right now, it's not looking good for any QB to get drafted by us.

Flyboy
12-31-2007, 12:21 AM
Much like the Miami situation last year and why Scott ripped into them so much for not taking Quinn at 9 and waited to take Beck to become their franchise QB. Now, I think Scott feels that Quinn > Ryan/Woodson/Brohm as prospects but the point that Scott is making is that Atlanta shouldn't pass up on a chance at a franchise QB.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:22 AM
Being from Alabama I question your overall intelligence so I'll take that for what it's worth

and Ironically the best dental school in the country is University of Alabama-Birmingham.

what does this have to do with anything? nothing. only don't view people rom Alabama as stupid with bad teeth. cause most of them have good teeth.

619
12-31-2007, 12:23 AM
Im not against the Falcons drafting another position of need either than QB in round one because quite frankly someone like Brennan or Flacco in the second provides much better value and arguably just as much upside in that slot. They shouldnt be obliged to force things if they know its only going to work as a "bandage" and theres still a possibility its not gonna solve the situation long-term.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:24 AM
Much like the Miami situation last year and why Scott ripped into them so much for not taking Quinn at 9 and waited to take Beck to become their franchise QB. Now, I think Scott feels that Quinn > Ryan/Woodson/Brohm as prospects but the point that Scott is making is that Atlanta shouldn't pass up on a chance at a franchise QB.

why? he says we shouldn't pass a franchise QB yet in his scouting report for Ryan he writes:
A safe pick who should become a solid starter at the next level but probably isn't a franchise signal caller.

yeah. so we take a guy who can't be a franchise signal caller to be our franchise signal caller? that seems kind of stupid if you ask me.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:25 AM
Ok.

Andrew Walter (Oakland Raiders QB 2006)
They said he would be future, has potential. Had done nothing.
55.6 passer rating
3 TD
13 INT
53% completions
6.1 yards per attempts

Chris Redman (Atlanta Falcons QB 2007)
Said he should be given a shot. Still draft somebody. Has produced when given a shot.
90.4 passer rating
10 TD
5 INT
59.7% completions
7.2 yards per attempt


Not too many similarities.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:26 AM
Im not against the Falcons drafting another position of need either than QB in round one because quite frankly someone like Brennan or Flacco in the second provides much better value and arguably just as much upside in that slot. They shouldnt be obliged to force things if they know its only going to work as a "bandage" and theres still a possibility its not gonna solve the situation long-term.
exactly. Atlanta is building long term. and while it's fun to be competative why try and force a guy with a 6.7 grade to be a star over guys with 7.0 grades?

lost33cause
12-31-2007, 12:26 AM
As little as I saw of the team, didn't A. Peterson have some huge games for them as a ROOKIE? All they need now is a passing game and they are a top tier team...

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:27 AM
Ok.

Andrew Walter (Oakland Raiders QB 2006)
They said he would be future, has potential. Had done nothing.
55.6 passer rating
3 TD
13 INT
53% completions
6.1 yards per attempts

Chris Redman (Atlanta Falcons QB 2007)
Said he should be given a shot. Still draft somebody. Has produced when given a shot.
90.4 passer rating
10 TD
5 INT
59.7% completions
7.2 yards per attempt


Not too many similarities.


we're not even saying Redman is the future. just the guy for next year.

Flyboy
12-31-2007, 12:27 AM
why? he says we shouldn't pass a franchise QB yet in his scouting report for Ryan he writes:


yeah. so we take a guy who can't be a franchise signal caller to be our franchise signal caller? that seems kind of stupid if you ask me.

Except that NFL team value the QB greatly and might overdraft a prospect because they feel he can be their franchise QB. Look at Alex Smith & the 49ers. Like I said earlier, Atlanta fans are jaded by what they want to happened opposed to what will probably actually happen. Who knows? They might shock the world just like Miami did last year (that is why we watch the draft afterall) but the chances are slim.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:28 AM
I have never once said that McFadden is out of the picture for Atlanta and am more than willing to admit he's a possibility. Would I agree with it? Absolutely not, but it's possible.

You did say we don't need help at RB so you kind of put him out of the picture unless you are calling whoever inherits our GM position completely stupid.

Because a top-5 pick in the National Football League Draft is obviously used to help positions where you need help.

Scott Wright
12-31-2007, 12:28 AM
I have always felt that quarterback is THE most important position in football and if you aren't set there you probably aren't a very good team. I am actually going to do a blog on this later on in the week but take a look at the eight worst teams in the league and tell me what they all have in common:

1. Miami Dolphins
2. St. Louis Rams
3. Kansas City Chiefs
4. Atlanta Falcons
5. Oakland Raiders
6. New York Jets
7. San Francisco 49'ers
8. Baltimore Ravens

Answer: They all have major issues at quarterback.

That is why I feel that even though there isn't a stud quarterback in this draft
that the Falcons have to take a shot.

Oh, and one more thing. Don't be so quick to dismiss Matt Ryan. I personally don't feel he's a "franchise" guy but there are plenty of people in the league who do. In fact, I think the vast majority of evaluators are much, much higher on Ryan than I am. You can't just assume that he's not an elite prospect just because you or I don't feel he is. Just something to keep in mind.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:30 AM
we're not even saying Redman is the future. just the guy for next year.

Exactly. One guy said it was like last year with Oakland and Andrew Walter. It isn't that similar. Could Redman turn out to start for the next 5 years? Yeah. But he is more of a reason to hold off QB than to not get one. More of a reason for RB over QB.

We are certainly better off with Chris Redman on the roster than off of it.

Halsey
12-31-2007, 12:32 AM
As little as I saw of the team, didn't A. Peterson have some huge games for them as a ROOKIE? All they need now is a passing game and they are a top tier team...

Yeah, and when he was injured Chester Taylor had a huge game. Must be nice to run behind that line. The Falcons should improve thier O-line before worrying about having a glamourous RB.

JDB7821
12-31-2007, 12:33 AM
I understand that, but if we take a shot and miss, we are completely screwed for a long time. That's why we need to make sure the chance to hit is at it's highest. We need a "can't miss" (yeah, I know, they bust too) prospect, but none of the guys in this draft are even labeled as a "can't miss". Again, if Matt Ryan blows up the Senior Bowl (I put a lot of stock into this, Cutler did well and he's my favorite young quarterback) and combine and 99% of experts agree that he is a top 3 prospect in this draft, then I'm all for it. I just don't see it happening.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:33 AM
Except that NFL team value the QB greatly and might overdraft a prospect because they feel he can be their franchise QB. Look at Alex Smith & the 49ers. Like I said earlier, Atlanta fans are jaded by what they want to happened opposed to what will probably actually happen. Who knows? They might shock the world just like Miami did last year (that is why we watch the draft afterall) but the chances are slim.

like Miami did only by getting a guy who is worth the pick. Miami reached on a WR. and yes, look at Alex Smith and the 49ers. how has that worked out for them? not very well.

Flyboy
12-31-2007, 12:34 AM
I have always felt that quarterback is THE most important position in football and if you aren't set there you probably aren't a very good team. I am actually going to do a blog on this later on in the week but take a look at the eight worst teams in the league and tell me what they all have in common:

1. Miami Dolphins
2. St. Louis Rams
3. Kansas City Chiefs
4. Atlanta Falcons
5. Oakland Raiders
6. New York Jets
7. San Francisco 49'ers
8. Baltimore Ravens

Answer: They all have major issues at quarterback.

That is why I feel that even though there isn't a stud quarterback in this draft
that the Falcons have to take a shot.

Oh, and one more thing. Don't be so quick to dismiss Matt Ryan. I personally don't feel he's a "franchise" guy but there are plenty of people in the league who do. In fact, I think the vast majority of evaluators are much, much higher on Ryan than I am. You can't just assume that he's not an elite prospect just because you or I don't feel he is. Just something to keep in mind.

You really feel like the Rams have issues at QB? Hmmm.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:34 AM
I understand that, but if we take a shot and miss, we are completely screwed for a long time. That's why we need to make sure the chance to hit is at it's highest. We need a "can't miss" (yeah, I know, they bust too) prospect, but none of the guys in this draft are even labeled as a "can't miss". Again, if Matt Ryan blows up the Senior Bowl (I put a lot of stock into this, Cutler did well and he's my favorite young quarterback) and combine and 99% of experts agree that he is a top 3 prospect in this draft, then I'm all for it. I just don't see it happening.actually, I could see Woodson pulling a Cutler. he has the arm, he has the leadership. Kentucky was terrible before Woodson and will be worse after him. just like Vandy was bad before Cutler and is bad after him.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:35 AM
Yeah, and when he was injured Chester Taylor had a huge game. Must be nice to run behind that line. The Falcons should improve thier O-line before worrying about having a glamourous RB.

I fulyl agree Halsey

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:36 AM
I have always felt that quarterback is THE most important position in football and if you aren't set there you probably aren't a very good team. I am actually going to do a blog on this later on in the week but take a look at the eight worst teams in the league and tell me what they all have in common:

1. Miami Dolphins
2. St. Louis Rams
3. Kansas City Chiefs
4. Atlanta Falcons
5. Oakland Raiders
6. New York Jets
7. San Francisco 49'ers
8. Baltimore Ravens

Answer: They all have major issues at quarterback.

That is why I feel that even though there isn't a stud quarterback in this draft
that the Falcons have to take a shot.

Oh, and one more thing. Don't be so quick to dismiss Matt Ryan. I personally don't feel he's a "franchise" guy but there are plenty of people in the league who do. In fact, I think the vast majority of evaluators are much, much higher on Ryan than I am. You can't just assume that he's not an elite prospect just because you or I don't feel he is. Just something to keep in mind.

Carson Palmer is widely considered the best young quarterback in the league. His team is at home. Ditto with another young quarterback in Derek Anderson. Jay Cutler. Drew Brees. Donovan McNabb. Marc Bulger.

I would consider (of the above) Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, Donovan McNabb, and Marc Bulger top 10 quarterbacks of the National Football League. Maybe even Cleveland's Derek Anderson. 16 teams make the playoffs each year and about half of the top quarterbacks are sitting at hime.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:37 AM
Carson Palmer is widely considered the best young quarterback in the league. His team is at home. Ditto with another young quarterback in Derek Anderson. Jay Cutler. Drew Brees. Donovan McNabb. Marc Bulger.

I would consider (of the above) Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, Donovan McNabb, and Marc Bulger top 10 quarterbacks of the National Football League. Maybe even Cleveland's Derek Anderson. 16 teams make the playoffs each year and about half of the top quarterbacks are sitting at hime.

actually only 12 teams make the playoffs every year.

Scott Wright
12-31-2007, 12:37 AM
You really feel like the Rams have issues at QB? Hmmm.

They did this year with Bulger missing half of their games.

Heck they started Brock F. Berlin at one point!

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:38 AM
Yeah, and when he was injured Chester Taylor had a huge game. Must be nice to run behind that line. The Falcons should improve thier O-line before worrying about having a glamourous RB.

This thread is not just Boston College's quarterback Matt Ryan for the Atlanta Falcons versus Arkansas' runningback Darren McFadden for the Atlanta Falcons it is Matt Ryan versus anybody, mostly McFadden and Michigan's offensive tackle Jake Long.

619
12-31-2007, 12:39 AM
I have always felt that quarterback is THE most important position in football and if you aren't set there you probably aren't a very good team. I am actually going to do a blog on this later on in the week but take a look at the eight worst teams in the league and tell me what they all have in common:

1. Miami Dolphins
2. St. Louis Rams
3. Kansas City Chiefs
4. Atlanta Falcons
5. Oakland Raiders
6. New York Jets
7. San Francisco 49'ers
8. Baltimore Ravens

Answer: They all have major issues at quarterback.

That is why I feel that even though there isn't a stud quarterback in this draft
that the Falcons have to take a shot.

Oh, and one more thing. Don't be so quick to dismiss Matt Ryan. I personally don't feel he's a "franchise" guy but there are plenty of people in the league who do. In fact, I think the vast majority of evaluators are much, much higher on Ryan than I am. You can't just assume that he's not an elite prospect just because you or I don't feel he is. Just something to keep in mind.

Im sorry but the days of the Raiders having QB issues in the post-Gannon era can now be put to rest, we have our future.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:40 AM
actually only 12 teams make the playoffs every year.

Lol oops. It's getting late and I'm not thinking. Same point though. Half of the National Football Leagues top ten quarterbacks are done and the playoffs are just about to begin.

jballa838
12-31-2007, 12:41 AM
I have always felt that quarterback is THE most important position in football and if you aren't set there you probably aren't a very good team. I am actually going to do a blog on this later on in the week but take a look at the eight worst teams in the league and tell me what they all have in common:

1. Miami Dolphins
2. St. Louis Rams
3. Kansas City Chiefs
4. Atlanta Falcons
5. Oakland Raiders
6. New York Jets
7. San Francisco 49'ers
8. Baltimore Ravens

Answer: They all have major issues at quarterback.

That is why I feel that even though there isn't a stud quarterback in this draft
that the Falcons have to take a shot.

Oh, and one more thing. Don't be so quick to dismiss Matt Ryan. I personally don't feel he's a "franchise" guy but there are plenty of people in the league who do. In fact, I think the vast majority of evaluators are much, much higher on Ryan than I am. You can't just assume that he's not an elite prospect just because you or I don't feel he is. Just something to keep in mind.
next 7 aren't that promising either:
Buffalo Bills : Stuck between Losman(1st) and Edwards (3rd)
Cincinnati Bengals : Palmer. 1st Rounder
Denver Broncos : Cutler. 1st Rounder
Detroit Lions : Kitna, but is old
Chicago Bears : No clear cut QB.
Carolina Panthers : Lots of injuries at QB an are old
New Orleans Saints : Brees. 2nd Rounder
so that makes the bottom half of the league. of 15 teams 3 have Clear cut Qbs. Bengals and Saints have no defense which leads to 7-9 records.

one thing in common between the teams with successful QBs, horrid defense and lackluster run game. But all had winning records last season.
20 % of teams with losing records have success at QB. 14 % had a QB from the first round that is successful.

jballa838
12-31-2007, 12:41 AM
Im sorry but the days of the Raiders having QB issues in the post-Gannon era can now be put to rest, we have our future.
that is what the Bears thought with Grossman.

Scott Wright
12-31-2007, 12:42 AM
This thread is not just Boston College's quarterback Matt Ryan for the Atlanta Falcons versus Arkansas' runningback Darren McFadden for the Atlanta Falcons it is Matt Ryan versus anybody, mostly McFadden and Michigan's offensive tackle Jake Long.

That definitely wasn't the sense I was getting. I definitely perceived it to be McFadden vs. Ryan for Atlanta.

I wouldn't have NEARLY as much trouble with it if they took Jake Long but even though he's a better prospect in my book I still think Matt Ryan would be a better way to go. As I said, it all revolves around the quarterback.

Here is a question I have for Atlanta fans: Do you really think Atlanta is going to wait another year to get their QB of the future / face of their franchise? I just can't see them going another year with Redman / Harrington / Leftwich. I don't think we can overlook the public relations factor here. Bringing in a quarterback with a Top 3-5 pick always creates a lot of excitement for a team. I just don't see any way that Atlanta doesn't bring in a top quarterback this offseason.

Flyboy
12-31-2007, 12:42 AM
Carson Palmer is widely considered the best young quarterback in the league. His team is at home. Ditto with another young quarterback in Derek Anderson. Jay Cutler. Drew Brees. Donovan McNabb. Marc Bulger.

I would consider (of the above) Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, Donovan McNabb, and Marc Bulger top 10 quarterbacks of the National Football League. Maybe even Cleveland's Derek Anderson. 16 teams make the playoffs each year and about half of the top quarterbacks are sitting at hime.

Yeah, but those teams don't have to go, "OMG WE DON'T HAVE A QUARTERBACK" going into next season. We didn't make the playoffs, but Drew Brees is still a top flight QB in the league. It's easier to build around a QB and is the most important position in the league. Period.

619
12-31-2007, 12:43 AM
that is what the Bears thought with Grossman.

Dont even try comparing the two QBs.

JDB7821
12-31-2007, 12:43 AM
Also, on the same token that the 8 worst teams in the league have bad quarterback play, let's look at where the 12 playoff teams got their quarterbacks:

Jaguars, 4th round
Steelers, 1st round
Patriots, 6th round
Colts, 1st round
Titans, 1st round
Chargers, 1st round

Cowboys, undrafted
Redskins, 1st round
Giants, 1st round
Packers, 2nd round
Bucs, undrafted
Seahawks, 6th round

6 in the first, 6 later...it's a 50/50 split on 1st round quarterbacks in the playoffs.

Flyboy
12-31-2007, 12:45 AM
so that makes the bottom half of the league. of 15 teams 3 have Clear cut Qbs. Bengals and Saints have no defense which leads to 7-9 records.


What's easier, though? Finding a top flight QB in the league or have one and improve on one side of the ball?

jballa838
12-31-2007, 12:45 AM
Dont even try comparing the two QBs.
Big Arm quarterbacks from the SEC that were surrounded with talent at the collegiate level.
Shall I continue?

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:45 AM
That definitely wasn't the sense I was getting. I definitely perceived it to be McFadden vs. Ryan for Atlanta.

I wouldn't have NEARLY as much trouble with it if they took Jake Long but even though he's a better prospect in my book I still think Matt Ryan would be a better way to go. As I said, it all revolves around the quarterback.

Here is a question I have for Atlanta fans: Do you really think Atlanta is going to wait another year to get their QB of the future / face of their franchise? I just can't see them going another year with Redman / Harrington / Leftwich. I don't think we can overlook the public relations factor here. Bringing in a quarterback with a Top 3-5 pick always creates a lot of excitement for a team. I just don't see any way that Atlanta doesn't bring in a top quarterback this offseason.

and if Ryan bmbs it woudl be a PR nightmare. and we're not saying wait a year. we're saying wait a ROUND. and I know. the BS 3% stat will come up again. We will be going with a QB other than who we draft for a year no matter what. no matter who the coach is, or who we draft. the QB will sit and learn for a year. and it's not McFadden vs. Ryan it's, Ryan vs. the BPA at our needs. hence why we dont' want Ryan because he won't be BPA at needs (if draft was held today)

WCH
12-31-2007, 12:46 AM
Edit: A computer glitch seems to have dumped my post in the wrong thread. Strange...

BuckNaked
12-31-2007, 12:47 AM
They did this year with Bulger missing half of their games.

Heck they started Brock F. Berlin at one point!

Is F the actual initial for his middle name or were you just being a little renegade and using an abbreviation for a naughty word?

619
12-31-2007, 12:48 AM
Big Arm quarterbacks from the SEC that were surrounded with talent at the collegiate level.
Shall I continue?

Except Russell was actually considered an elite talent coming out while Grossman was a late first rounder and questionable franchise QB from the start.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:52 AM
Public relations are the main reason I can not see Atlanta going with Jake Long even though I feel like that is the best pick. Unless they can convince the public Jake Long is great like the Jets did with D'Brickshaw Furguson a few years ago.

I see McFadden or Ryan, but I want Long and if not him then Ryan. My personal preference...

1. Jake Long, Offensive Tackle Michigan
2a. Colt Brennan, Quarterback Hawaii
2b. James Davis, Runningback Clemson/ (lesser preference) Tashard Choice, Runningback Georgia Tech.
3. Marcus Harrison, Defensive Tackle Arkansas/ Red Bryant, Defensive Tackle Texas A&M

And then fill in a kick and punt returner, a middle linebacker, a defensive end, a wide receiver, guard or center, and a cornerback. All of those are just depth and picks for the future.

But I can not see us doing that for public relations purposes.

Halsey
12-31-2007, 12:52 AM
Big Arm quarterbacks from the SEC that were surrounded with talent at the collegiate level.
Shall I continue?
Yeah and Heath Shuler and Peyton Manning are the same since they both played at the same SEC school..

Scott Wright
12-31-2007, 12:53 AM
Is F the actual initial for his middle name or were you just being a little renegade and using an abbreviation for a naughty word?

Wouldn't you like to know! :)

jballa838
12-31-2007, 12:54 AM
Except Russell was actually considered an elite talent coming out while Grossman was a late first rounder and questionable franchise QB from the start.
Grossman Rookie Year Stats:
3 GP 72 ATT 38 COM 52.8 Com % 437 Yards 6.07 YPC 2 TDs 1 Int 74.8 QB Rating
Russell Rookie Year Stats:
3 GP 13-35 37.1 % 149 Yards 1 TD 3 INT 24.6 QB Rating

need i say more? Grossman looked better stats wise. so there goes that.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:54 AM
Scott, do you see what I mean? I can not see the Falcons taking Jake Long unless the public agrees with it like they did with the Jets and D'Brickshaw Furguson. Can that happen?

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:55 AM
Public relations are the main reason I can not see Atlanta going with Jake Long even though I feel like that is the best pick. Unless they can convince the public Jake Long is great like the Jets did with D'Brickshaw Furguson a few years ago.

I see McFadden or Ryan, but I want Long and if not him then Ryan. My personal preference...

1. Jake Long, Offensive Tackle Michigan
2a. Colt Brennan, Quarterback Hawaii
2b. James Davis, Runningback Clemson/ (lesser preference) Tashard Choice, Runningback Georgia Tech.
3. Marcus Harrison, Defensive Tackle Arkansas/ Red Bryant, Defensive Tackle Texas A&M

And then fill in a kick and punt returner, a middle linebacker, a defensive end, a wide receiver, guard or center, and a cornerback. All of those are just depth and picks for the future.

But I can not see us doing that for public relations purposes.

actually I could. very easily if Colt tears apart UGA too. causethey will advertise Colt as the guy who can run the spread O that we would run with Hue.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 12:56 AM
Grossman Rookie Year Stats:
3 GP 72 ATT 38 COM 52.8 Com % 437 Yards 6.07 YPC 2 TDs 1 Int 74.8 QB Rating
Russell Rookie Year Stats:
3 GP 13-35 37.1 % 149 Yards 1 TD 3 INT 24.6 QB Rating

need i say more? Grossman looked better stats wise. so there goes that.

Here are his updated statistics:

http://www.nfl.com/players/jamarcusrussell/profile?id=RUS539462

Better.

jballa838
12-31-2007, 12:56 AM
Yeah and Heath Shuler and Peyton Manning are the same since they both played at the same SEC school..
Skillsets my friend. JaMarcus and Grossman are close to the same except JaMarcus is bigger.

scar988
12-31-2007, 12:56 AM
Scott, do you see what I mean? I can not see the Falcons taking Jake Long unless the public agrees with it like they did with the Jets and D'Brickshaw Furguson. Can that happen?

dude, FO won't give 2 poops about fans. They care more about winning.

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 12:58 AM
dude, FO won't give 2 poops about fans. They care more about winning.

Quoted for Truth Right there

jballa838
12-31-2007, 12:59 AM
Here are his updated statistics:

http://www.nfl.com/players/jamarcusrussell/profile?id=RUS539462

Better.
thanks they compare better now.
Russell: 36-66 for 363 2 Tds 4 Int 2 Fumbles Lost
Grossman 38-72 for 437 2 TDs 1 Int 0 Fumbles Lost.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 01:00 AM
actually I could. very easily if Colt tears apart UGA too. causethey will advertise Colt as the guy who can run the spread O that we would run with Hue.

I haven't seen a second round quarterback be done like that. No one really popular. That is unless there is a hated quarterback starting such as the Trent Edwards popularity over J.P. Wilson in Buffalo for the Bills fans.

619
12-31-2007, 01:01 AM
Grossman Rookie Year Stats:
3 GP 72 ATT 38 COM 52.8 Com % 437 Yards 6.07 YPC 2 TDs 1 Int 74.8 QB Rating
Russell Rookie Year Stats:
3 GP 13-35 37.1 % 149 Yards 1 TD 3 INT 24.6 QB Rating

need i say more? Grossman looked better stats wise. so there goes that.

First of all you forgot to include Russells stats from todays game, second its two completely different situations. Russell is a very raw QB with incredible tools who will likely take 2-3 years before developing into a star QB. Grossman on the other hand does not have close to as much upside and will always be perceived as nothing better than a slightly above average QB. How you start does not always dictate the future or QBs like Byron Leftwich would still be successful.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 01:01 AM
dude, FO won't give 2 poops about fans. They care more about winning.

Not in a situation like ours in Atlanta. Fan reaction is very important after seeing what happened to game attendence last year.

Billingsley26
12-31-2007, 01:02 AM
I haven't seen a second round quarterback be done like that. No one really popular. That is unless there is a hated quarterback starting such as the Trent Edwards popularity over J.P. Wilson in Buffalo for the Bills fans.

No, Trent is starting because he is actually the better QB than JP.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-31-2007, 01:02 AM
actually I could. very easily if Colt tears apart UGA too. causethey will advertise Colt as the guy who can run the spread O that we would run with Hue.

If Brennan tears apart UGA then I'll put money on him being a 1st rounder.

MidwayMonster31
12-31-2007, 01:03 AM
Except Russell was actually considered an elite talent coming out while Grossman was a late first rounder and questionable franchise QB from the start.Russell has much better size, and a rocket launcher for an arm. If Grossman was 6'6, 255, he would be a much earlier pick than 23rd. Almost everyone I know hated that pick.
Back to the topic, with how much the Falcons suck on both sides of the ball, do they really have to go for their franchise QB now, when it would probably take 3-4 years before they're good again? I think that Matt Stafford from Georgia is probably better than any of the quarterbacks this year, as long as he declares as a junior. The Falcons would have to sign a quarterback this offseason and even though it's not a very strong group, it should be able to last a year.

JDB7821
12-31-2007, 01:03 AM
All I know is I want what's best for our team and with that, I'm going to bed. It's been fun arguing with all of you.

scar988
12-31-2007, 01:03 AM
I haven't seen a second round quarterback be done like that. No one really popular. That is unless there is a hated quarterback starting such as the Trent Edwards popularity over J.P. Wilson in Buffalo for the Bills fans.

JP Losman. but actually it is possible especially in Atlanta with who BRennan is facing. there are much more UGA fans in Atlanta and if the Falcons got the guy who beat us in the Sugar Bowl then I can see him as making the bad guy a good guy. like Falcons draft amazing Hawaiian QB in the 2nd and get his body guard early in Jake Long.

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 01:03 AM
No, Trent is starting because he is actually the better QB than JP, in games played under optimal playing conditions

Fixed it for you

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 01:05 AM
If Brennan tears apart UGA then I'll put money on him being a 1st rounder.

I agree. (Ten Key/Character Minimum Per Post in this website forum)

jballa838
12-31-2007, 01:06 AM
First of all you forgot to include Russells stats from todays game, second its two completely different situations. Russell is a very raw QB with incredible tools who will likely take 2-3 years before developing into a star QB. Grossman on the other hand does not have close to as much upside and will always be perceived as nothing better than a slightly above average QB. How you start does not always dictate the future or QBs like Byron Leftwich would still be successful.
yeah Grossman has no tools and JaMarcus has them tenfold right? Grossman goes down in training camp and Bears fans go crazy, yet he is an average QB.
Scott, can you bust out Grossman's Scouting Report from when he came out? It will look pretty similar to Russell's.
and updated they look about the same. i made another post.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 01:06 AM
JP Losman. but actually it is possible especially in Atlanta with who BRennan is facing. there are much more UGA fans in Atlanta and if the Falcons got the guy who beat us in the Sugar Bowl then I can see him as making the bad guy a good guy. like Falcons draft amazing Hawaiian QB in the 2nd and get his body guard early in Jake Long.

Haha, again it is late.

If Colt Brennan succeeds against Georgia he will be a first round selection.

scar988
12-31-2007, 01:06 AM
Russell has much better size, and a rocket launcher for an arm. If Grossman was 6'6, 255, he would be a much earlier pick than 23rd. Almost everyone I know hated that pick.
Back to the topic, with how much the Falcons suck on both sides of the ball, do they really have to go for their franchise QB now, when it would probably take 3-4 years before they're good again? I think that Matt Stafford from Georgia is probably better than any of the quarterbacks this year, as long as he declares as a junior. The Falcons would have to sign a quarterback this offseason and even though it's not a very strong group, it should be able to last a year.

3-4 years? our defense is actally pretty solid. maybe not statistically but it's been playing solid all year. our biggest problem is that we have them on the field way too long by not being able to sustain drives. on defense we are a NT, a true MLB and a FS from being top 10. on offense weare a LT, RT, RG, RB, and QB from beign top 10

Billingsley26
12-31-2007, 01:06 AM
Fixed it for you

Well, as much as I want to argue with you, I really cant. Thanks for fixing it ;)

scar988
12-31-2007, 01:07 AM
If Colt Brennan succeeds against Georgia he will be a first round selection.

and we'll bethe team who trades up for him.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 01:09 AM
3-4 years? our defense is actally pretty solid. maybe not statistically but it's been playing solid all year. our biggest problem is that we have them on the field way too long by not being able to sustain drives. on defense we are a NT, a true MLB and a FS from being top 10. on offense weare a LT, RT, RG, RB, and QB from beign top 10

Chris Crocker has been a lot better this year than last year.

619
12-31-2007, 01:10 AM
Theres no question theres a possibility Atlanta could pull off a similar situation to that of Cleveland in the first round last year. I could definitely see it happening.

Halsey
12-31-2007, 01:10 AM
Skillsets my friend. JaMarcus and Grossman are close to the same except JaMarcus is bigger.
Skillsets are not what separates a good QB NFL QB from a bad one. Intelligence, instincts, desire, durability, etc are.

Being from the SEC and having a strong arm doesn't make 2 QB's the same.

scar988
12-31-2007, 01:12 AM
Chris Crocker has been a lot better this year than last year.

ahh yes, but he is also a UFA. hopefully we re-sign him.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 01:13 AM
Theres no question theres a possibility Atlanta could pull off a similar situation to that of Cleveland in the first round last year. I could definitely see it happening.

I could see that, because then we would aquire the good pick and a good value that makes fans happy. Also, the third round isn't much different from the fourth round this year and we have a good shot at a third or fourth round compensary pick for Patrick Kerney. So we would have enough picks. But a second round pick doesn't scream fan support.

jballa838
12-31-2007, 01:15 AM
Skillsets are not what separates a good QB NFL QB from a bad one. Intelligence, instincts, desire, durability, etc are.

Being from the SEC and having a strong arm doesn't make 2 QB's the same.
Still, he is a quarterback with who has lackluster accuracy and was surrounded by star wide-outs making him look better. Something like 3 1st rounder or future first rounders around him.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 01:15 AM
ahh yes, but he is also a UFA. hopefully we re-sign him.

Once Chris Houston develops, we get a good nickle corner, and someone besides Abraham learns to rush the quarterback we will have a fine defense. But by then we will need a new strong safety. Hopefully Jimmy Williams can play free safety in 2009 and we can resign Chris Crocker for free safety in 2008 and strong safety in 2009.

scar988
12-31-2007, 01:17 AM
I could see that, because then we would aquire the good pick and a good value that makes fans happy. Also, the third round isn't much different from the fourth round this year and we have a good shot at a third or fourth round compensary pick for Patrick Kerney. So we would have enough picks. But a second round pick doesn't scream fan support.
in PR you can hype anone up to be anything. I could see us trading up to the last pic of the first and taking Brennan and if we went with Long eralier and with the early 2nd going OT and calling Brennan, the OT and Long, the offense OTF. And then 2nd day getting a RB in the 3rd and then going K, defensive spots and OG in the 2nd day.

619
12-31-2007, 01:18 AM
Skillsets my friend. JaMarcus and Grossman are close to the same except JaMarcus is bigger.

Many different parts to their game, Grossman cant rollout and throw on the money the way Russell can. Also you have to take into context everything including leadership and poise and Russell certainly has demonstrated these qualities early on which is a good sign.

scar988
12-31-2007, 01:19 AM
Once Chris Houston develops, we get a good nickle corner, and someone besides Abraham learns to rush the quarterback we will have a fine defense. But by then we will need a new strong safety. Hopefully Jimmy Williams can play free safety in 2009 and we can resign Chris Crocker for free safety in 2008 and strong safety in 2009.

I still think we need a NT. that pass rush will come once we get a true NT and add some more blitzing.

Halsey
12-31-2007, 01:23 AM
Still, he is a quarterback with who has lackluster accuracy and was surrounded by star wide-outs making him look better. Something like 3 1st rounder or future first rounders around him.
Russel did not have lackluster accuracy in college. He completed 68% of his passes last year.

He was playing vs top competition while playing with it. It's not like LSU was playing La Tech every week while Russel was there.

jballa838
12-31-2007, 01:23 AM
Many different parts to their game, Grossman cant rollout and throw on the money the way Russell can. Also you have to take into context everything including leadership and poise and Russell certainly has demonstrated these qualities early on which is a good sign.
Russell won't develop in Oakland. He doesnt show very much will to do it either, and if he wanted to be a stud quarterback, he would have showed up to camp earlier.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 01:27 AM
in PR you can hype anone up to be anything. I could see us trading up to the last pic of the first and taking Brennan and if we went with Long eralier and with the early 2nd going OT and calling Brennan, the OT and Long, the offense OTF. And then 2nd day getting a RB in the 3rd and then going K, defensive spots and OG in the 2nd day.

If we trade up we will probably end up with...

1.
1 (aquired in trade up).
2 (from Houston Texans).
4.
4 (f/ Patrick Kerney Compensation).
5.
6.
7.

I would say...

1. Jake Long, Offensive Tackle Michigan
1. Colt Brennan, Quarterback Hawaii
2. Tashard Choice, Runningback Georgia Technical/ James Davis, RB Clemson
4. Ben Moffitt, Middle Linebacker Southern Florida
4. Eddie Royal, Wide Receiver/ Return Specialist Virginia Technical
5. Mike McGlynn, OT Pittsburgh
6. Marcus Walker, Cornerback Oklahoma
7. SirVincent Rodgers, Offensive Guard Houston

jballa838
12-31-2007, 01:27 AM
Russel did not have lackluster accuracy in college. He completed 68% of his passes last year.

He was playing vs top competition while playing with it. It's not like LSU was playing La Tech every week while Russel was there.
Grossman had a career 61 % Completion percentage his 3 years at Florida. 146 Career rating.

619
12-31-2007, 01:28 AM
Russell won't develop in Oakland. He doesnt show very much will to do it either, and if he wanted to be a stud quarterback, he would have showed up to camp earlier.

Sometimes you just have to separate business decisions from football. From day one hes embraced the challenge of being the franchise QB and I dont think its gonna change anytime soon.

jballa838
12-31-2007, 01:29 AM
Sometimes you just have to separate business decisions from football. From day one hes embraced the challenge of being the franchise QB and I dont think its gonna change anytime soon.
usually Day one means the first day of training camp, not whenever he shows up.

scar988
12-31-2007, 01:29 AM
If we trade up we will probably end up with...

1.
1 (aquired in trade up).
2 (from Houston Texans).
4.
4 (f/ Patrick Kerney Compensation).
5.
6.
7.

I would say...

1. Jake Long, Offensive Tackle Michigan
1. Colt Brennan, Quarterback Hawaii
2. Tashard Choice, Runningback Georgia Technical/ James Davis, RB Clemson
4. Ben Moffitt, Middle Linebacker Southern Florida
4. Eddie Royal, Wide Receiver/ Return Specialist Virginia Technical
5. Mike McGlynn, OT Pittsburgh
6. Marcus Walker, Cornerback Oklahoma
7. SirVincent Rodgers, Offensive Guard Houston

Georgia Technical? Virginia Tchnical? it's the Georgia Institute of Technology and the Virginia Polytech and Stat University

619
12-31-2007, 01:34 AM
Still, he is a quarterback with who has lackluster accuracy and was surrounded by star wide-outs making him look better. Something like 3 1st rounder or future first rounders around him.

Russell is an accurate QB as evident by his 68% completion percentage in his junior year. Also in his first career start today against a solid defense in SD he was 23-31 for 224 yds 1 TD 1 INT. I believe as he becomes more comfortable in his role and doesnt force things he will only get that much better.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 01:36 AM
Georgia Technical? Virginia Tchnical? it's the Georgia Institute of Technology and the Virginia Polytech and Stat University

I just spelled out Tech.

Tech- Technical

Eh? I didn't know VaTech was Polytech and Stat but I knew GT. I just spelled out Technical.

619
12-31-2007, 01:37 AM
usually Day one means the first day of training camp, not whenever he shows up.

Well it has nothing to do with his commitment to the franchise. Business is business.

jballa838
12-31-2007, 01:38 AM
Russell is an accurate QB as evident by his 68% completion percentage in his junior year. Also in his first career start today against a solid defense in SD he was 23-31 for 224 yds 1 TD 1 INT. I believe as he becomes more comfortable in his role and doesnt force things he will only get that much better.
yeah, college stats throwing to future first round draft picks determines how great a player will do in the pros. Grossman 61% translated nicely didnt it?
The only those college stats will do for him is get him a nice car and some money. and did San Diego even try? I didnt watch the game, but week 17 stats are usually above what you can normally do.

scar988
12-31-2007, 01:39 AM
I just spelled out Tech.

Tech- Technical

Eh? I didn't know VaTech was Polytech and Stat but I knew GT. I just spelled out Technical.

I know but neither has the word technical in their name. just call them GT anf VT. we all know what you mean.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 01:41 AM
I know but neither has the word technical in their name. just call them GT anf VT. we all know what you mean.

I'm just weird like that some times. Just feel like typing more. Yeah, I know.

619
12-31-2007, 01:47 AM
yeah, college stats throwing to future first round draft picks determines how great a player will do in the pros. Grossman 61% translated nicely didnt it?
The only those college stats will do for him is get him a nice car and some money. and did San Diego even try? I didnt watch the game, but week 17 stats are usually above what you can normally do.

If it was about college stats Troy Smith would have been the first overall pick. He obviously had something that set him apart from the rest of the draft to be the first overall pick, its not like the Raiders were forcing anything there he was always considered a top 3 talent in that draft class. You dont think he helped those future first rounders somewhat cuz I dont think they would all be nearly as successful with Matt Flynn back there last year. BTW Doucets numbers dropped significantly this year as opposed to last year with Russell. Whether or not SD put in all their effort I still see it as a positive result against a division rival.

jballa838
12-31-2007, 01:51 AM
If it was about college stats Troy Smith would have been the first overall pick. He obviously had something that set him apart from the rest of the draft to be the first overall pick, its not like the Raiders were forcing anything there he was always considered a top 3 talent in that draft class. You dont think he helped those future first rounders somewhat cuz I dont think they would all be nearly as successful with Matt Flynn back there last year. BTW Doucets numbers dropped significantly this year as opposed to last year with Russell. Whether or not SD put in all their effort I still see it as a positive result against a division rival.
what he had that set him apart was a 6'6 frame and the ability to throw the ball far.
and BTW i hated last years draft class for quarterbacks at the top and neither Quinn nor Russell stood out as Elite prospects. I saw a bunch of Middle tier talent.
well im done for the night

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 02:43 AM
If the Falcons were to wait in the draft on a QB I'd strongly suggest they take a look at Josh Johnson out of San Diego. He's probably the second best WCO QB after Brohm but he has the athleticism to provide a decent running attack in the spread offense. he's a guy that probably is a year or two away from being able to compete at a high level in the NFL but with good coaching he could be special

scar988
12-31-2007, 02:54 AM
If the Falcons were to wait in the draft on a QB I'd strongly suggest they take a look at Josh Johnson out of San Diego. He's probably the second best WCO QB after Brohm but he has the athleticism to provide a decent running attack in the spread offense. he's a guy that probably is a year or two away from being able to compete at a high level in the NFL but with good coaching he could be special

we don't run a WCO and likely won'[t run a WCO.

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 02:55 AM
we don't run a WCO and likely won'[t run a WCO.

I forgot. That was the last coaching staff that wanted to run a WCO. My fault

scar988
12-31-2007, 03:00 AM
I forgot. That was the last coaching staff that wanted to run a WCO. My fault

yup. I think we'll go with a spread passing game similar to the Colts (takes advantage to our strengths) and a defense that fits our strengths (43 or 46)

d34ng3l021
12-31-2007, 03:39 AM
My wishlist:

1. Jake Long
2. Colt Brennan

Done.

jballa838
12-31-2007, 12:22 PM
If it was about college stats Troy Smith would have been the first overall pick. He obviously had something that set him apart from the rest of the draft to be the first overall pick, its not like the Raiders were forcing anything there he was always considered a top 3 talent in that draft class. You dont think he helped those future first rounders somewhat cuz I dont think they would all be nearly as successful with Matt Flynn back there last year. BTW Doucets numbers dropped significantly this year as opposed to last year with Russell. Whether or not SD put in all their effort I still see it as a positive result against a division rival.
Btw, Troy Smith is having a better year this year.

jballa838
12-31-2007, 12:36 PM
of the top 8 last year, 3 had losing records this season, meaning 5 improved.
1. OAK - QB
2. DET - WR
3. CLE - OT
4. TB - DE
5. ARI - OT
6. WAS - S
7. MIN - RB
8. ATL - DE

of those teams the three that didn't go anywhere were:
Oakland, Detroit, and Atlanta.
Detroit was 7-9 so they were close to a winning record so look lets eliminate them and talk about Oakland and Atlanta.
Atlanta - Star QB thrown in Jail, horrid coach who walked out on them, and questions at that QB position. Declined from year before's win total
Oakland - Drafted a Quarterback first overall, and didn't show much progress, only gaining 2 wins.
The two things in common are high draft picks this year and last year. The other one is no stability at the Quarterback position. Hell you could even argue that since it was Houston's spot, they should be compared.
they were 8-8 and showed improvement, only leaving Oakland, the team that drafted a first round QB from a high position, to be alone not making progress out of the top 8. They drafted a QB in a top position and made little progress.
Moral of the story? Top 8 QB picks don't help.

BeerBaron
12-31-2007, 02:30 PM
of the top 8 last year, 3 had losing records this season, meaning 5 improved.
1. OAK - QB
2. DET - WR
3. CLE - OT
4. TB - DE
5. ARI - OT
6. WAS - S
7. MIN - RB
8. ATL - DE

of those teams the three that didn't go anywhere were:
Oakland, Detroit, and Atlanta.
Detroit was 7-9 so they were close to a winning record so look lets eliminate them and talk about Oakland and Atlanta.
Atlanta - Star QB thrown in Jail, horrid coach who walked out on them, and questions at that QB position. Declined from year before's win total
Oakland - Drafted a Quarterback first overall, and didn't show much progress, only gaining 2 wins.
The two things in common are high draft picks this year and last year. The other one is no stability at the Quarterback position. Hell you could even argue that since it was Houston's spot, they should be compared.
they were 8-8 and showed improvement, only leaving Oakland, the team that drafted a first round QB from a high position, to be alone not making progress out of the top 8. They drafted a QB in a top position and made little progress.
Moral of the story? Top 8 QB picks don't help.

thats because russell didnt play right away. QB's, unlike any other position there is, need a few years to get on the right track. If Russell starts from game 1 next year and they draft a DE or RB or OT or something like that to help him out, they should continue to improve.

The falcons on the other hand arent going to improve with the likes of chris redman at QB (unless they play the seattle 2nd stringers who have nothing to play for every week next year)

moral of the story: if the raiders add more talent this year, they will be 1 year ahead of the falcons in QB development

Iamcanadian
12-31-2007, 03:16 PM
of the top 8 last year, 3 had losing records this season, meaning 5 improved.
1. OAK - QB
2. DET - WR
3. CLE - OT
4. TB - DE
5. ARI - OT
6. WAS - S
7. MIN - RB
8. ATL - DE

of those teams the three that didn't go anywhere were:
Oakland, Detroit, and Atlanta.
Detroit was 7-9 so they were close to a winning record so look lets eliminate them and talk about Oakland and Atlanta.
Atlanta - Star QB thrown in Jail, horrid coach who walked out on them, and questions at that QB position. Declined from year before's win total
Oakland - Drafted a Quarterback first overall, and didn't show much progress, only gaining 2 wins.
The two things in common are high draft picks this year and last year. The other one is no stability at the Quarterback position. Hell you could even argue that since it was Houston's spot, they should be compared.
they were 8-8 and showed improvement, only leaving Oakland, the team that drafted a first round QB from a high position, to be alone not making progress out of the top 8. They drafted a QB in a top position and made little progress.
Moral of the story? Top 8 QB picks don't help.

Funny, I watched Oakland play San Diego last night and I thought to myself that Russell showed the potential of a franchise QB. He's not only big with a very strong cannon of an arm, he is very mobile and very effective throwing on the move. As the game progressed, he looked better and better. I think he will have a huge career ahead of him with a very high ceiling.
As for top 8 QB's not helping, I guess Payton, Rivers, Palmer, Staubach, and Bradshaw did OK, and even Vince Young and Eli made the playoffs as did Vick, and McNabb. Everybody but you seems to know that rookie QB's don't have much of an impact in their 1st season but often come on in their 2nd, 3rd or 4th season to be stars so you analysis seems a bit ridiculous to me.

scar988
12-31-2007, 03:31 PM
thats because russell didnt play right away. QB's, unlike any other position there is, need a few years to get on the right track. If Russell starts from game 1 next year and they draft a DE or RB or OT or something like that to help him out, they should continue to improve.

The falcons on the other hand arent going to improve with the likes of chris redman at QB (unless they play the seattle 2nd stringers who have nothing to play for every week next year)

moral of the story: if the raiders add more talent this year, they will be 1 year ahead of the falcons in QB development


SEATTLE HAD THEIR FIRST STRING DEFENSE IN ALL GAME!!!

ALSO, we have the talent around the QB outside of OL. we need OL and QB, and a RB who can split with Norwood. then our offense should be done. but OL is huge needs. We're not saying Redman is the truth o the future. we're saying he's the hold over guy who will start for ONE YEAR, and allow our drafted QB to sit on the bench for a full year a la Carson Palmer.

SubNoize
12-31-2007, 03:42 PM
Chris Redman is god awful, I witnessed this man first hand in AZ a week ago and he is not someone I'd have confidence in at all. I was watching the Falcons and couldn't believe how bad of a passing game they had, worst team I've ever seen live by far. They need to get a veteran or draft a QB RD 1.

scar988
12-31-2007, 03:46 PM
Chris Redman is god awful, I witnessed this man first hand in AZ a week ago and he is not someone I'd have confidence in at all. I was watching the Falcons and couldn't believe how bad of a passing game they had, worst team I've ever seen live by far. They need to get a veteran or draft a QB RD 1.

Redman threw for 300+ yards and 2 TD's against the Cardinals and was spectacular. I don't think we're watching the same guy. he get's pressured like crazy and he is playing extremely well.

georgiafan
12-31-2007, 03:54 PM
Redman was clearly alot better then the other QB's which I know isn't saying a lot but still. The biggest question I have for Redman is what he will he under the new offense.

I don't see how people can say HB isn't a major need anyone that has watched the falcons will tell you Dunn isn't a starting HB anymore. I like Norwood as much as the next guy, but he just hasn't proved he can stay healthy enough to be the full time back. You can find a HB later, but teams that find a HB later on have a better OL then the falcons.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 04:28 PM
Chris Redman is god awful, I witnessed this man first hand in AZ a week ago and he is not someone I'd have confidence in at all. I was watching the Falcons and couldn't believe how bad of a passing game they had, worst team I've ever seen live by far. They need to get a veteran or draft a QB RD 1.

Funny, he lit up the Cardinals.

SubNoize
12-31-2007, 04:37 PM
Redman threw for 300+ yards and 2 TD's against the Cardinals and was spectacular. I don't think we're watching the same guy. he get's pressured like crazy and he is playing extremely well.

80 yards came on one play. The whole game he put up dumb floaters and missed open receivers, if it weren't for Roddy White having a beastly game it would have been completely ugly. The guy is just plain ******, I couldn't believe he actually started in the NFL and almost made me appreciate Josh McCown.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 04:39 PM
I didn't know 90+ passer rating didn't belong in the NFL.

SubNoize
12-31-2007, 04:43 PM
I didn't know 90+ passer rating didn't belong in the NFL.

yeah it's great to pad your stats against a depleted Cardinals secondary and a Seahwaks team that didn't give 2 shits about the game they were playing. Redman sucks, just be real here, don't let the homerism blind you. Go watch him play live. Even the guy I was sitting next to was like "that's the worst QB I've ever seen." and he's a damn Cardnials fan! that's pretty harsh.

SuperKevin
12-31-2007, 04:44 PM
Chris Redman only has a job in the NFL because he must have blown Bobby Petrino while he was in college or something. i admit he's making the most of the opportunity but I think a new coaching staff will go in a different direction than him

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 04:48 PM
yeah it's great to pad your stats against a depleted Cardinals secondary and a Seahwaks team that didn't give 2 shits about the game they were playing. Redman sucks, just be real here, don't let the homerism blind you. Go watch him play live. Even the guy I was sitting next to was like "that's the worst QB I've ever seen." and he's a damn Cardnials fan! that's pretty harsh.

Wow man, your so insightful. You saw him live so you saw something different than everyone else. I was under the impression that the TV broadcast shows the same thing and generally better angles.

BNad
12-31-2007, 05:07 PM
yeah it's great to pad your stats against a depleted Cardinals secondary and a Seahwaks team that didn't give 2 shits about the game they were playing. Redman sucks, just be real here, don't let the homerism blind you. Go watch him play live. Even the guy I was sitting next to was like "that's the worst QB I've ever seen." and he's a damn Cardnials fan! that's pretty harsh.

I saw him in person against the Seahawks STARTERS (I'm not sure why people are saying backups, the only person I saw leave the field was Tatupa and I believe that was in the 4th). I thought he looked pretty damn good considering the state of our line. I'd personally be okay with him holding the spot for a season if our offense doesn't change drastically. It really will depend on what kind of system we end up using. I thought it was a joke Petrino brought him in the first place, but I've been extremely impressed (given the expectations I had) with him. His better-than-expected play, in addition to me not wanting to take any of the QBs top 5, are why I'm looking towards a later QB pick.

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 05:12 PM
And he doesn't get sacked much which is nice for a quarterback behind our offensive line.

BeerBaron
12-31-2007, 05:14 PM
im willing to wager that if the seahawks wanted or needed that game it would have been a completely different story...

BamaFalcon59
12-31-2007, 05:17 PM
Yeah, but I still think he would have performed well. They went all out in the first half.