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TimD
12-30-2007, 08:13 PM
I saw the Ravens had a Cut/Keep thread, so I wanted to make one for the Jets, but I figured why not just make a thread for this off season.

Discuss Here!

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BroadwayJoe10
12-30-2007, 08:28 PM
Well, for starters we'll have to start looking for a new ST coach. I just heard that westhoff will be leaving due to medical and health issues. I wish him the best, because he was the best coach we've had for years and is one of the alltime great ST coaches.

Gridiron
12-30-2007, 08:42 PM
It's time to spend money... and a lot of it.

In my opinion, all of our FA money should go to OL.

Draft BPA every pick.

TimD
12-30-2007, 08:55 PM
now for my get rid of/keep post.

injured reserve

QB - Kellen Clemens, Chad Pennington, Marques Tuiasosopo
well this is obvious. Tui did not play this year, but from what i read in he had a good training camp and pre season. Clemens is the future (hopefully), so we'll see what he can do after an off season as a starter

RB - Thomas Jones, Leon Washington, Stacey Tutt
i think our running back situation is great, with a quality one-two punch. i'm mad we didn't sign Danny Ware though. Tutt did okay when he played

FB - Joe Kowalewski, Jason Pociask
weird situation, because we started the season with Darien Barnes and Stacey Tutt, but they haven't been activated in a few weeks. both Kowalewski and Pociask fit our offense and work hard especially on special teams. i would not be surprised if we brought someone else in though

WR - Lavernues Coles, Jerricho Cotchery, Brad Smith, Justin McCareins, Wallace Wright, Chris Davis, Chansi Stuckey
Coles, Cotchery, and Smith will be a great top 3 receivers. Wright is a great special teamer and contributes on offense. McCareins was horrible this year, and Davis won't be on the roster because we have Stuckey on IR and we'll end up getting a WR in the draft or free agency

TE - Chris Baker, Sean Ryan, James Dearth
Baker played well this season. Ryan did nothing and lost his role on our offense to Kowalewski and Pociask. Dearth is a great long snapper haha

OL - Nick Mangold, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Brandon Moore, Anthony Clement, Adrien Clarke, Jacob Bender, Wade Smith, Will Montgomery, Adrian Jones
very self explanatory. Mangold, Ferguson, and Moore are young decent to solid starters. Clement, Jones, and Clarke need to go. the other guys are quality back ups.

DL - Dwayne Robertson, Shaun Ellis, Kenyon Coleman, Siona Pouha, Kareem Brown, C.J. Mosley, Mike Devito
to be honest with all the outcry about our poor defensive line, i wouldn't get rid of anyone we have. yes we need to add players that fit the system but the guys we have are either good or solid back ups. Robertson and Ellis are good enough to find a role in our defense.

LB - David Harris, Eric Barton, Victor Hobson, Bryan Thomas, David Bowens, Brad Kassell, Matt Chatham, Cody Spencer, Jonathon Vilma
Harris was a great surprise. Barton, Hobson, and Thomas work for the defense but we need a playmaking OLB. Chatham will probably retire. Hopefully we can get something good out of Vilma

DB - Kerry Rhodes, Darrelle Revis, Abraham Elam, Eric Smith, Erik Coleman, David Barrett, Hank Poteat, Drew Coleman, Rashad Washington, Andre Dyson
Rhodes and Revis are great. Elam and Smith are young guys with potential. Poteat, Washington, and D. Coleman are hard working backups. but Barrett, Dyson, and E Coleman need to go.

K - Mike Nugent
duh

P - Ben Graham
getting older but still does well. no reason to get rid of him




any thoughts?

BroadwayJoe10
12-31-2007, 09:54 AM
QB - Ok, well here we go. I fully agree with our QB situation. I expect penny to be shopped, but something that will work our for both teams. I plan on pennington and the FO working together to find a team for him to start with. He knows he wants to start for a team and i want this trade situation to be as amicable for both parties as possible. He has done so much for us that I feel we should and will do everything to make sure we get good value for him, but that he is in a situation that he wants to be in. I expect tui to stay and be a good 3rd stringer, but I would like to see if he has the ability to be a quality backup. I would also like to see what the situation is with kurt warner or another proven veteran. Clemens needs all the mentoring that he can get and it seems most will be a step down from chad. I have some faith in Clemens, but most of my hesitations come from the fact that he doesnt seem to comfortable stepping up in the pocket; i feel that will come with an improved offensive line. I sure hope schotty becomes more creative and can create an offense that is made for Clemens and not one made for chad that clemens runs


RB - TJ and Leon really proved to me that McFadden would be a luxury and is not a necessity like some beleive. With an improvement on the LG and RT positions are running game will only get that much better. If Leon isn't returning kicks next year, I want to see him get many more touches on offense. However, I want the touches to be creative plays and not the same "trick" plays 3 times in a row.

FB - I'm fine with our FB's, but i wouldn't mind seeing Owen Schmitt added in the late late rounds. We could improve our short game drastically with a bruising FB. Althoug he isn't the best runner or athlete, he lead the way for slaton the last couple of years. I see a mike alstott in him, but more from his attitude than his ability. Don't get me wrong, he will be a great blocking fullback who can occasionaly truck a 3rd and 1, but i dont see him being the HOF FB like alstott.

WR - This definately depends on what happens with coles. With coles, we are definately set, but will need to hopefully find his replacement this year or next so that we can groom him while we still have coles. Cotchery seems to be only getting better and has proven he can be a top #2 reciever and could possibly be a #1 one day. I never thought that he could be a #1, but a few games i think he has the potential. I like brad smith, but he needs to work on his hands more and should be used more creatively. I can't wait to see what stuckey can do, but i'm afraid that he is going to have a tough time staying on the field with all of his injuries. I would also like to see wallace wright get some more catches and Jmac has to leave. I wouldn't mind seeing a James hardy or WR added in round 2, but it all depends on what we address in FA.

TE - Chris baker has emerged as a solid TE and I still think he should be used more often, but due to our ineptitude on the Oline, he has had to block more often.

OL - Mangold, Ferguson, and Moore are young decent to solid starters. Clement, Jones, and Clarke need to go. the other guys are quality back ups. Dbrick and mangold are anchors on our oline, whereas Brandon Moore is a decent starter who could be an excellent backup. Clarke and Clement must go. Even though i like the play of montgomery, he isn't the starter that we are looking for. I like scheuning, but would be satisfied with Jake Scott or Lilja. I also love Stacy Andrews, who could play RT or LG depending on who we get in FA or the draft.

DL - Dwayne Robertson, Shaun Ellis, Kenyon Coleman, Siona Pouha, Kareem Brown, C.J. Mosley, Mike Devito
The dline has really come around the last few games since the bye week; rumor has it that mangini took over play calling from sutton, but who knows for sure. I like the emerging play of Pouha and i think Kenyon Coleman is a solid starter. Coleman does exactly what is required of him; he holds his ground and isn't blown back off the ball. Mosley is a good situational pass rusher and I have yet to see anything from kareem Brown. Drob can stay, but his contract must be restructered if he is going to. I am not sure who is going to come out for the draft, but i wouldn't mind seeing a big DE adressed if the value is right. If raji comes out, he is a must have.

LB - David Harris, Eric Barton, Victor Hobson, Bryan Thomas, David Bowens, Brad Kassell, Matt Chatham, Cody Spencer, Jonathon Vilma
Harris is a player and will only get better. Bryan thomas had a less glitzy year than last, but his role was changed. He play on the opposite side of the field last year and this year was required to drop back more in coverage. I am not sure what is gonna happen with vilma, but with some meat up front and playing next to harris he could see his play evolve. I still dont think it's a great fit for him, but we won't know what is situation is until we know what procedure was done on his knee. I want gholston with our first pick. If not i will have to keep my eye on Blake, Groves etc.

DB - Kerry Rhodes, Darrelle Revis, Abraham Elam, Eric Smith, Erik Coleman, David Barrett, Hank Poteat, Drew Coleman, Rashad Washington, Andre Dyson
Revis, along with harris were tremendous draft picks. Revis pretty much shut down Bowe last night, i think bowe ended up with 1 catch for 15ish yards. Elam was a great find; one of the benefits of mangini bringing in all these players. Once in a while you are going to find a diamond in the rough, so to speak. It has been elam's play that has given rhodes the ability to have a probowl 2nd half of the season. I like poteat and coleman was ok. That one play where he fell down early in the year and let up a td still is stuck in my mind. Dyson and barett must go. I wouldn't mind seeing a CB taken in round 3, but i would rather see Gaay brought in from FA.

AlexDown
12-31-2007, 11:51 AM
now for my get rid of/keep post.

injured reserve

QB - Kellen Clemens, Chad Pennington, Marques Tuiasosopo
well this is obvious. Tui did not play this year, but from what i read in he had a good training camp and pre season. Clemens is the future (hopefully), so we'll see what he can do after an off season as a starter

RB - Thomas Jones, Leon Washington, Stacey Tutt
i think our running back situation is great, with a quality one-two punch. i'm mad we didn't sign Danny Ware though. Tutt did okay when he played

FB - Joe Kowalewski, Jason Pociask
weird situation, because we started the season with Darien Barnes and Stacey Tutt, but they haven't been activated in a few weeks. both Kowalewski and Pociask fit our offense and work hard especially on special teams. i would not be surprised if we brought someone else in though

WR - Lavernues Coles, Jerricho Cotchery, Brad Smith, Justin McCareins, Wallace Wright, Chris Davis, Chansi Stuckey
Coles, Cotchery, and Smith will be a great top 3 receivers. Wright is a great special teamer and contributes on offense. McCareins was horrible this year, and Davis won't be on the roster because we have Stuckey on IR and we'll end up getting a WR in the draft or free agency

TE - Chris Baker, Sean Ryan, James Dearth
Baker played well this season. Ryan did nothing and lost his role on our offense to Kowalewski and Pociask. Dearth is a great long snapper haha

OL - Nick Mangold, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Brandon Moore, Anthony Clement, Adrien Clarke, Jacob Bender, Wade Smith, Will Montgomery, Adrian Jones
very self explanatory. Mangold, Ferguson, and Moore are young decent to solid starters. Clement, Jones, and Clarke need to go. the other guys are quality back ups.

DL - Dwayne Robertson, Shaun Ellis, Kenyon Coleman, Siona Pouha, Kareem Brown, C.J. Mosley, Mike Devito
to be honest with all the outcry about our poor defensive line, i wouldn't get rid of anyone we have. yes we need to add players that fit the system but the guys we have are either good or solid back ups. Robertson and Ellis are good enough to find a role in our defense.

LB - David Harris, Eric Barton, Victor Hobson, Bryan Thomas, David Bowens, Brad Kassell, Matt Chatham, Cody Spencer, Jonathon Vilma
Harris was a great surprise. Barton, Hobson, and Thomas work for the defense but we need a playmaking OLB. Chatham will probably retire. Hopefully we can get something good out of Vilma

DB - Kerry Rhodes, Darrelle Revis, Abraham Elam, Eric Smith, Erik Coleman, David Barrett, Hank Poteat, Drew Coleman, Rashad Washington, Andre Dyson
Rhodes and Revis are great. Elam and Smith are young guys with potential. Poteat, Washington, and D. Coleman are hard working backups. but Barrett, Dyson, and E Coleman need to go.

K - Mike Nugent
duh

P - Ben Graham
getting older but still does well. no reason to get rid of him




any thoughts?

Thats a lot of guys getting the axe. FOr everyone you cut, you should put someone that you think we have legit chances to get.

TimD
12-31-2007, 01:10 PM
Okay sounds good

Bluedevil$
12-31-2007, 01:23 PM
I don't see how we shouldn't take Gholston with our first pick. We need to address the RT in the 2nd round. I'm not familiar with the OT prospects except for the top guys so if someone could enlighten me on who would be avail that would be great.

Tannenbaum needs to seriously make some sort of splash in FA this year. Bolstering the O-Line should be the biggest FA priority, followed by the defensive line. I also wouldn't mind seeing Kerry Rhodes getting a long-term extension.

TimD
12-31-2007, 01:28 PM
Definite Needs:

QB - Kellen Clemens needs a safety net

RB - We need someone for those third and shorts

LG - I think we need a veteran here to help D'Brickashaw just like Kendall did last year.

RT - We'll most likely use a Day 1 pick to address this.

DL - We need a NT or a DE for the 3-4. Hopefully both. We'll most likely use a Day 1 pick on the DL.

OLB - We need someone that makes the QB nervous every play. This would help pull our defense together. Another probable Day 1 pick.

CB - I think they will address this in FA and then add a young guy with a Day 2 pick.

Other Positions of Need:

WR - Coles is getting older and Smith is more of a slot WR so we need someone to be a future #1 or #2 with Cotchery.

TE - This is weird because we'll most likely have Chris Baker, Joe Kowalewski, and Jason Pociask next year. But only Baker is a true TE. The other two are more of H-Backs. I think we'll add a free agent.

tishdog
12-31-2007, 03:46 PM
Everyone wants new DEs but what would we do with Ellis or Coleman?

The Great Jonathan Vilma
12-31-2007, 04:20 PM
i thought Coleman was very solid this season. Made more than his share of nice plays. Ellis is big and strong enough to hold his position. I think its really the OLBs that need to be upgraded if possible because that's where the push/pass rush comes from, something we are lacking. Hobson and Thomas are fine, but not special in that area

gio
12-31-2007, 05:06 PM
After the last 6 weeks where i thought we could salvage a lost season, i dont think that Clemens is the answer either, folks. Keep him on the roster, but we better draft a QB after we try and draft Chris Long in the first round. Best free agent acquisitions? Berrian and Faneca- our O line is dog crap without a solid guard (Pete Kendall anybody?) and LC is nearing the end. I would say Briggs, but he would command alot of money.

BroadwayJoe10
12-31-2007, 05:27 PM
I don't see how we shouldn't take Gholston with our first pick. We need to address the RT in the 2nd round. I'm not familiar with the OT prospects except for the top guys so if someone could enlighten me on who would be avail that would be great.

Tannenbaum needs to seriously make some sort of splash in FA this year. Bolstering the O-Line should be the biggest FA priority, followed by the defensive line. I also wouldn't mind seeing Kerry Rhodes getting a long-term extension.

I do beleive if gholston is their for our pick we take him; i'm not going to go further into that because i mention it every post and im sure its getting annoying haha. But in new news i saw this on rotoworld;

Laveranues Coles says the Jets told his agent and that they're concerned about Coles' age and declining production.
Coles, 30, wants a contract extension and doesn't believe he'll get one from the Jets. A high ankle sprain Coles played through in the second half of the season was most of the reason for his numbers being down. Coles says in a "worst case scenario" he'll finish out his final two years with the Jets.
Source: Newsday

I find it quite funny that a player that wasn't sure how long he was going to be playing and thought retirement was near wants an extenstion. I don't want to let coles get away and i have a feeling if they can shop him with penny than he'll leave. Our FO doesn't seem willing to give him a long extentsion, maybe a different FO will. Before, i figured he was definatly going to stay, but i am thinking if we dont give him an extension he might ask for permission to go somewheres else. I just hope that it doesn't turn ugly like the kendal thing.

derza222
12-31-2007, 05:31 PM
I don't believe Coles will let this turn ugly because he's a leader and a solid person. He knows the Jets don't want this to be ugly and he doesn't want it to be ugly either. I also don't know where but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Coles said he doesn't want this to turn into something like the Kendall situation. And in all honesty, he should probably play out the two years left on his contract and retire just to ensure that he stays healthy after his career.

josh07039
12-31-2007, 05:56 PM
If I were Coles I would retire right now to leave the game at least relatively healthy. Given his style of play, he has more wear and tear on his body than many comparably aged wide receivers. With that said, I still think we should either work out his contract, or trade him to a team like the Titans. They would probably find Coles inviting given their playoff birth and their lack of anyone that can even be considered close to a number one. I think that the Titans really want someone that can help VY bounce back from a disappointing season. For the Titans it would be as much a PR move as it would a football move because they would be trying to protect the face of their franchise from having yet another down year.

BroadwayJoe10
01-01-2008, 08:55 AM
As a fan of coles, i hope he retires when his body needs to and doesnt stay too long. I have this growing feeling that he may end up where penny goes and as of now i'm pretty indifferent on the matter. If we get good value than ok, but I think we need him around in order to help out clemens. He won't be subjecting his body to as much punishment now that chad's soft tosses won't be around, but it is going to be an interesting offseason thats for sure.

gio
01-01-2008, 11:19 AM
When was the last time we had a break away WR? probably Al Toon and Wesley Walker. The WR position for the Jets the last 15 years has been BOOOOORRRRRIIIIINNNNNGGGG!!! Sure LC is a tough guy, plays hurt, solid vet, etc. etc., but what really will help Clemens if he actually decides to stop running for his life (not his fault), is a fast play making WR, tall and strong-a prototype of what today's football commands, like T.O., Moss, Roy Williams, Andre Johnson..If LC goes, it really won't affect the team as much as people think.

AlexDown
01-01-2008, 12:36 PM
When was the last time we had a break away WR? probably Al Toon and Wesley Walker. The WR position for the Jets the last 15 years has been BOOOOORRRRRIIIIINNNNNGGGG!!! Sure LC is a tough guy, plays hurt, solid vet, etc. etc., but what really will help Clemens if he actually decides to stop running for his life (not his fault), is a fast play making WR, tall and strong-a prototype of what today's football commands, like T.O., Moss, Roy Williams, Andre Johnson..If LC goes, it really won't affect the team as much as people think.

I don't think you can be more wrong about the jets missing coles, especially with the WRs we have on the roster now.

diabsoule
01-01-2008, 01:41 PM
What do you guys think is going to happen with Jonathan Vilma? Think he might be traded? If so, what's his worth?

TimD
01-01-2008, 02:38 PM
What do you guys think is going to happen with Jonathan Vilma? Think he might be traded? If so, what's his worth?

1st Rounder. Or an elite player, like a lot of people were talking about Shaun Rogers. Personally I think we should also get a 3rd or 4th rounder if we do that.

AlexDown
01-01-2008, 02:43 PM
I would say late first at best considering his value is at an all time low right now. I wouldent be suprised if the jets got an early second, which would be a great deal for that team IMO

hcbrad08
01-01-2008, 04:46 PM
I think Vilma is gonna be traded, but only for the right value. If the Jets dont get a top pick or elite playmaker I think they feel comfortable enough with Harris and Vilma playing side by side (even though hes small with Harris play being in the elite category Vilma wont get picked on)

Crickett
01-01-2008, 05:09 PM
When was the last time we had a break away WR? probably Al Toon and Wesley Walker. The WR position for the Jets the last 15 years has been BOOOOORRRRRIIIIINNNNNGGGG!!! Sure LC is a tough guy, plays hurt, solid vet, etc. etc., but what really will help Clemens if he actually decides to stop running for his life (not his fault), is a fast play making WR, tall and strong-a prototype of what today's football commands, like T.O., Moss, Roy Williams, Andre Johnson..If LC goes, it really won't affect the team as much as people think.

Go back and look how horrible the Jets receiving corps were when Coles was injured this year. I don't think there was a worse group anywhere in the NFL.

As for the Jets not having a breakaway WR, they did. His name was Santana Moss. He was a homerun threat. Herm and Hackett didn't like him because he wouldn't go over the middle. Because you know, 5'10 195 speed demons, that's what you do with them. Go over the middle. :rolleyes:

BroadwayJoe10
01-01-2008, 05:50 PM
Go back and look how horrible the Jets receiving corps were when Coles was injured this year. I don't think there was a worse group anywhere in the NFL.

As for the Jets not having a breakaway WR, they did. His name was Santana Moss. He was a homerun threat. Herm and Hackett didn't like him because he wouldn't go over the middle. Because you know, 5'10 195 speed demons, that's what you do with them. Go over the middle. :rolleyes:

Haha i have forgotten about the idiocy of them. Instead of running plays to get him open, they would constantly run him across the middle and pout when he'd get alligator arms. Oh well, they are no longer our problem; and we got leon for herm so it evens out i guess.

But Coles' value to this team is immense. Without him our recieving corp is quite pedestrian and unless stuckey turns into the next coles, we need him. I wouldn't mind for a reciever whos tall and can burn down the field, basically what Jmac was supposed to be, in order to open the field up for the udnerneath routes that coles and cotchery thrive on.

As for vilma, it really all depends on how is physicals go and what the reports are on his knee. If it is just bone chips and fragments than he should come back as healthy or healthier. If that is the case, i would accept nothing less than a first rounder or elite player. Becuase when he is healthy he isn't the end all be all LB, but he is an elite player and that's what i would expect in return for him. The problem with most of the conversations on this draft board is people highly undervalue players and highly overvalue their draft picks. We shall see, i think a lot of things are going to be happening come the end of next week.

jmess15
01-02-2008, 10:32 AM
1st Rounder. Or an elite player, like a lot of people were talking about Shaun Rogers. Personally I think we should also get a 3rd or 4th rounder if we do that.


I actually thinkg Vilma could be productive playing next to David Harris if we can get a wide body for the Nose.

hcbrad08
01-03-2008, 12:51 PM
I just don't know if that will happen this season....barring a trade for Shaun Rogers which im starting to love more and more...

BroadwayJoe10
01-03-2008, 08:40 PM
I actually thinkg Vilma could be productive playing next to David Harris if we can get a wide body for the Nose.

i'm certain he could too, but i don't see that happening this year. Unless drob gets traded to detroit for shaun rogers. If that's what you mentioned hcbrad my bad, i wasn't sure exactly what u were sayin. But if it was, i think with rogers at the nose, harris in the middle and gholston or blake etc. at the olb position vilma won't be targeted as much and will be allowed to roam free. If they do target vilma, they will be leaving harris free and he'll f**k things up for the other team, or atleast that's my hopes.

I am somewhat interested in the devlopment of Kareem Brown this offseason, he certainly has the frame to play a DE. Also, unless Nnamdi wants to play for Rob Ryan so badly (assuming he becomes a jet...'fingers crossed') that he takes a pay cut i dont see him joining us. It is very rare you have two #1 CB's on the same team, generally because of the money. I think the smarter move would be to grab a 3rd rounder or so or go after gaay. (This wasn't targeted at you jmess, i just was in a groove and kept writing.)

gio
01-04-2008, 02:01 PM
Go back and look how horrible the Jets receiving corps were when Coles was injured this year. I don't think there was a worse group anywhere in the NFL.

As for the Jets not having a breakaway WR, they did. His name was Santana Moss. He was a homerun threat. Herm and Hackett didn't like him because he wouldn't go over the middle. Because you know, 5'10 195 speed demons, that's what you do with them. Go over the middle. :rolleyes:

i hear what you are saying, but the point that i'm trying to make is we wouldn't miss him if we got someone like him to replace him, but with a little more size. for example, we made the playoffs without him in 04, and even though what you are saying is true about santana moss during the herm/hackett nightmare, think about what mangini would do with a guy like santana moss. sure he is small, is stature, but look at steve smith-not the biggest person either. i might be one less position to worry about if a guy like santana would have stayed. look at that 05 season moss put together, because he had a halfway decent QB throwing it to him downfield, which makes him what herm thought he was when he drafted him- a home run hitter type of reciever.

BroadwayJoe10
01-04-2008, 04:00 PM
NOOOOOOO!!!!!

A Raiders spokesman confirmed Friday that the team will retain defensive coordinator Rob Ryan for the 2008 season.
Coach Lane Kiffin and Ryan himself both indicated in their season ending press conferences that Ryan wouldn't return. Several reports had him already headed to the Jets. But it appears owner Al Davis overrided Kiffin's wish to have Ryan axed. It's another example of why no one wants to coach the Raiders. Jan. 4 - 4:51 pm et



The worst news i have heard all freaking day, i can only hope that it isn't true.

Crickett
01-04-2008, 06:30 PM
NOOOOOOO!!!!!

A Raiders spokesman confirmed Friday that the team will retain defensive coordinator Rob Ryan for the 2008 season.
Coach Lane Kiffin and Ryan himself both indicated in their season ending press conferences that Ryan wouldn't return. Several reports had him already headed to the Jets. But it appears owner Al Davis overrided Kiffin's wish to have Ryan axed. It's another example of why no one wants to coach the Raiders. Jan. 4 - 4:51 pm et



The worst news i have heard all freaking day, i can only hope that it isn't true.

I guess I'm the only one, but I'm not really all that upset about it. I can't dismiss the Jets current defensive coordinator as part of the problem when there are so many glaring problems personel wise. Combine that with Oakland's defense which has not done that well and I don't see the problem.

BroadwayJoe10
01-04-2008, 07:18 PM
I guess I'm the only one, but I'm not really all that upset about it. I can't dismiss the Jets current defensive coordinator as part of the problem when there are so many glaring problems personel wise. Combine that with Oakland's defense which has not done that well and I don't see the problem.

I'm still upset because i love the fire that he coaches with and his knowledge of the 34. He totally turned them around in his 3rd year and this past year there were a ton of issues he was dealing with; kelly being hurt, warren sapp losing a lot of weight etc. The move is obviously not going to hurt us because we didn't really lose anything, but i still wish he was gonna be our new DC. I am anxious to see who mangini brings in to interview for our position. It is a pretty enticing position because our defense has some promising starts; revis, harris and rhodes. There's definately worse places to coach.

derza222
01-05-2008, 02:19 PM
I know we all are interested in a trade for Shaun Rodgers. However, if we don't think he'll be a hard worker for us I'm sure we wouldn't go after him. But at the same time, the Lions would still probably be interested in Vilma and they do have other assets to trade. Roy Williams supposedly wants out, and they obviously have draft picks as well. Maybe Vilma for Roy with picks involved? Worth considering if the LC situation doesn't work out.

Also, he may or may not be starting material but Pouha came on late in the season and should be a solid rotational guy at least at NT. An interesting guy I became aware of looking at one of toonster's mocks is Ahtyba Rubin, a DT from Iowa State. He's 6'3, 326 and supposedly really rising up draft boards. Interesting guy to follow at least and could be the best true nose available. Taylor for Michigan could be interesting as well if he declares though he is undersized.

BroadwayJoe10
01-05-2008, 07:27 PM
I know we all are interested in a trade for Shaun Rodgers. However, if we don't think he'll be a hard worker for us I'm sure we wouldn't go after him. But at the same time, the Lions would still probably be interested in Vilma and they do have other assets to trade. Roy Williams supposedly wants out, and they obviously have draft picks as well. Maybe Vilma for Roy with picks involved? Worth considering if the LC situation doesn't work out.

Also, he may or may not be starting material but Pouha came on late in the season and should be a solid rotational guy at least at NT. An interesting guy I became aware of looking at one of toonster's mocks is Ahtyba Rubin, a DT from Iowa State. He's 6'3, 326 and supposedly really rising up draft boards. Interesting guy to follow at least and could be the best true nose available. Taylor for Michigan could be interesting as well if he declares though he is undersized.


Pouha did play exceptionally well towards the end of the season and i would like to see him get some some more snaps at NT. Mangini raved, as much as he can rave about a player, about pouha and his resergent play. I am not sure if that was signalling anything about Drob or just mentioning that he was very impressed with what pouha has done. I personally feel that there is a reason for everything that mangini does and i wouldn't be surprised to see something happen to drob this offseason, whether it be trade, restructure contract etc. I still am a big proponent for the shaun rogers deal, but we'll see.

derza222
01-07-2008, 02:16 PM
Bradway has stated that he'll have to be blown away by an offer to deal Pennington, and that he and Clemens will compete for a job this offseason. Not a bad move given we probably weren't going to get a great value in return and it shows we're willing to try and win now, or at least want to give the impression. Also eliminates the need to sign a vet QB this offseason. Hopefully Penny handles this well though I think he will, and hopefully we're fair to him and not just saying this because we want to retain him since he's probably a great mentor QB with his intelligence.

Also, we're not expected to retain Hobson which isn't all that bad or surprising. He would've been nice if we moved him inside but I think we're better off keeping Vilma and seeing how he plays next to Harris, especially given Vilma is better in coverage and Harris could focus on the run. We shall see I guess.

I've also been thinking that signing Suggs wouldn't allow us to draft an OLB this year, since we're giving Thomas and Bowens decent money and they'd both be backups. Too much money to sink into the position, similar to the offensive line except I think the talent would be needed more on the OL than at OLB. Only possibility is if we could move Bowens or Thomas inside next to Harris, but I don't know how realistic that is. Otherwise i don't know how realistic it would be.

BroadwayJoe10
01-07-2008, 03:19 PM
Bradway has stated that he'll have to be blown away by an offer to deal Pennington, and that he and Clemens will compete for a job this offseason. Not a bad move given we probably weren't going to get a great value in return and it shows we're willing to try and win now, or at least want to give the impression. Also eliminates the need to sign a vet QB this offseason. Hopefully Penny handles this well though I think he will, and hopefully we're fair to him and not just saying this because we want to retain him since he's probably a great mentor QB with his intelligence.

I was just about to post that about penny. I really, really do not want to see chad start. If clemens can mentally handle losing the starting job that is fine, but i think it would hurt his development by having him lose the starting job. Clemens played exceptionally well this past preseason, and i truly think he'll win it again this year. I feel fine keeping chad as a backup, but i do not want to see him starting.

josh07039
01-07-2008, 03:36 PM
I like the idea of having a veteran backup that can take over if CLemens flops or gets injured, however, im not sure if i want that guy to be pennington. Firstly, Im not sure that Pennington will keep his mouth shut and be content with sitting, because he obviously still sees himself as a capable starter. Secondly, even if Pennington does not mouth off and is comfortable as a backup and mentor, it may cause a division in the locker room because many guys will steal feel an allegiance to Pennington. If the team does not do well again(which seems somewhat likely), many players will see it as Clemens' fault regardless and see Pennington, a veteran, as a more viable win-now option. Thirdly, If somehow Pennington outperforms Clemens in training camp and wins the starting job and the team still does poorly the problem is two fold, Clemens may have trouble handling losing the starting Job, and if the team does poorly under Pennington, people will clamor for Clemens again, furthering irritating Pennington and putting more pressure on Clemens as the savior. Yet another scenario is that Pennington outperforms Clemens in training camp, but they still give the job to Clemens because they don't see Pennington as a viable option even if the team is unwilling to admit it, which hurts the teams credibility and may compel Pennington to bash the team. Perhaps it will work perfectly with Clemens taking a step forward with Pennington as his mentor and backup, but, Frankly I feel uncomfortable with Pennington remaining on the team as a backup.

derza222
01-07-2008, 04:01 PM
I think there could be some sort of problem, but the major upside I see with this statement is that we aren't just going to trade him for nothing. There are a ton of needs that need a QB this offseason that are close to competing or have some nice pieces in place. This keeps his value high because we know that we're not just going to dump him off, and it means that we won't get bad value for him. I don't think it really changes anything and is more of a ploy to keep his value high, we will clearly be getting offers for him and I'm sure one of those offers will be more than enough to get him out of here. But for now, it's clearly far better than us saying we'll be dealing him in any case because his value will get pushed down significantly. Wouldn't be surprised to see us trade him to a team in a trade up for Gholston, and in fact I'd love that. We'll see what happens but I really don't think it changes all that much to be honest.

BroadwayJoe10
01-07-2008, 04:10 PM
I'm hoping that his value stays high and we'd trade him, but not for gholston. I hope gholston plays well, but i personally wanna see Mr. Glen Dorsey play absolutely out of his mind so that miami can't possibly not take him. I am employing everyone on this site to start praying that dorsey gets 4 sacks and is in the back field all day long so that parcells falls in love with him and the idea of taking gholston is just silly.

derza222
01-07-2008, 04:45 PM
That'd certainly be awesome. We'll see what happens but any way Gholston slips to us would be great. The tricky thing is if he has a bad game he may not come out, but if he dominates he will probably be gone by the time we pick. Needs to be somewhere in the middle.

BroadwayJoe10
01-07-2008, 05:04 PM
That'd certainly be awesome. We'll see what happens but any way Gholston slips to us would be great. The tricky thing is if he has a bad game he may not come out, but if he dominates he will probably be gone by the time we pick. Needs to be somewhere in the middle.

That's what i've been going over in my head. I want gholston to play well so as he comes out, but i dont want him to dominate so much that he comes out early. I still think becuase this is a draft forum that people put more emphasis on players value and really have no idea what the team wants; as far as we know there's no chance the dolphins don't select dorsey or long etc. Anyways, i want gholston to have good enough of a game to come out, but i just wanna make sure he's there for us.

derza222
01-07-2008, 05:14 PM
That's what i've been going over in my head. I want gholston to play well so as he comes out, but i dont want him to dominate so much that he comes out early. I still think becuase this is a draft forum that people put more emphasis on players value and really have no idea what the team wants; as far as we know there's no chance the dolphins don't select dorsey or long etc. Anyways, i want gholston to have good enough of a game to come out, but i just wanna make sure he's there for us.

Exactly I mean if he gets a sack or at least solidifies his status and doesn't get dominated we should have a shot to get him. I just figure if he has something like a 3, 4 sack game and is pressuring Flynn the entire time we're going to have trouble getting him. Unfortunately I think we've gotten attached to Gholston, which will make it hard to see him play for another team. That said, at least he won't be playing for the Pats next season in all likelihood.

BroadwayJoe10
01-07-2008, 05:35 PM
Exactly I mean if he gets a sack or at least solidifies his status and doesn't get dominated we should have a shot to get him. I just figure if he has something like a 3, 4 sack game and is pressuring Flynn the entire time we're going to have trouble getting him. Unfortunately I think we've gotten attached to Gholston, which will make it hard to see him play for another team. That said, at least he won't be playing for the Pats next season in all likelihood.

haha we have definately gotten way to attached to him, but i am still open to chris long being a DE/OLB tweener. I would be happy with either.