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View Full Version : The Rexmeister of Ortonman? Take your pick.


Airborne
01-01-2008, 12:52 PM
If you were Chicago, who would you rather have as your starting quarterback come next year, Rex Grossman or Kyle Orton? Orton has shown some improvement over his last few starts and Rex, well, Rex always has plenty of potential. It's just the rest of the baggage...

MaxV
01-01-2008, 12:54 PM
The Bears need to bring in a new QB in the off-season. They don't have a starting caliber QB on their roster.

Billingsley26
01-01-2008, 12:57 PM
I wouldnt expect the Bears to do much more next yea r than they did this year. I see them using one of the two, I think they should go with Orton, then possibly draft a QB this year, then groom him for about a year before he is ready. I guess, there is also a chance of McNabb going to Chicago, which could or could not work out for them.

doingthisinsteadofwork
01-01-2008, 01:03 PM
I would have someone else starting for me.

WMD
01-01-2008, 02:06 PM
They'll be starting Chad Pennington next year! Mark it down!

regoob2
01-01-2008, 02:22 PM
Doesn't Pennington have a monster contract? He would add more constinency though i'll give him that. What would the Jets want for him. I wouldn't give up 3rd for him.

Smokey Joe
01-01-2008, 02:24 PM
They'll be starting Chad Pennington next year! Mark it down!
yuck... I have a better arm then him.

Competition between Orton and Grossman with Flacco drafted in the 2nd.

Gay Ork Wang
01-01-2008, 03:01 PM
How about....1st half Orton 2nd Half Grossman?^^

Hurricane Ditka
01-01-2008, 07:16 PM
Kyle Orton, by far. If we fix the holes on the offensive line, upgrade at running back, and add a receiver Orton can handle the job. He's shown that he can win with this team, or at least not lose. Although we have to bring in a Qb to compete, I wouldn't pick one up in the first or maybe even the second, I'd wait and see who falls, who rises, maybe trade back into the second if Flacco is still there at the end of the round. I don't want us to bring in a guy like McNabb or Pennington, we can't keep picking Qb's up off the scrap heap, they've had limited success elsewhere, and this is where Qb's come to die. Jerry Angelo should have learned his lesson after Kordell Stewart, and Brian Greise.

bearfan
01-01-2008, 11:24 PM
I will take Orton. If he works on his accuracy, which is almost on par with Grossmans for the season, I think Orton could be a solid player. We dont need a QB that will throw for 250-300yrds a game, we need a guy who can put up maybe around 200 a game with a TD or 2 and minimal turnovers. I made a thread over at the Bears message board comparing Orton to David Gerrard of the Jaguars (minus the athletiscm, more on playing style). I think thats the type of QB we need, someone who doesnt make mistakes (Gerrard had 4ints this season, 2500 passing yards, 18TDs, and a passer rating of 100+). I would be happy with that type of production out of KO (though would not be that good unless he seriously improves). KO I bet could be a 12-18TD guy w/ maybe 6-9ints in a season. I would gladly take a 2:1 ratio over Grossmans essentially 1:1 in the 2006 season in which everyone bases all their Grossman love off of.

*also, season stat comparisons just to throw them out there. I know one season is nothing to base anything off of, but I just thought it was interesting that Orton had an avg of 1td per start, and Grossman had a .5avg TD per start.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=GRO597298&player2=ORT716150&player3=null&player4=null&position=quarterback&playerOne=Rex+Grossman&playerTwo=Kyle+Orton&playerThree=Select+a+Player...&playerFour=Select+a+Player...

bearsfan_51
01-01-2008, 11:31 PM
I wonder about J.P Losman's availablity, there have been rumors surrounding him all season and the job in Buffalo appears to be Edwards'. I would consider giving up a 4th rounder for him if his contract his reasonable (don't know off the top of my head). I'm not sold on Orton at this point, and would prefer Losman over Grossman.

awfullyquiet
01-02-2008, 06:06 PM
eh. i like grossman. i look for him to start at the top of the depth chart next preseason (preseason kids). i don't think this year a rookie QB will start nor will anyone bring in mcnabb nor derek anderson nor chad pennington (we already have a noodlearm in the way of brian griese)

BeerBaron
01-02-2008, 06:14 PM
orton can has proven that he can, at the very least, protect the football. something grossman has never been able to do. (when rex is at QB, i sometimes wonder if 'fumble the snap' is actually a play in the g*d*mn playbook...)

orton ftw

but they do need to draft someone in the first 3 rounds to groom for a year (or however long orton holds down the job)

with some revamping of the o-line and a healthy D, orton only has to be average and the bears are back in playoff contention IMO

MidwayMonster31
01-02-2008, 11:58 PM
This is a tough call because Grossman showed improvement after he came back, even though it looks like fumbles are going to be a problem for him. Orton has the stuff, not as good an arm as Grossman, but if he gets more accurate, he could cut it.
A quarterback has to be drafted, but given the choice with these two, I would say Grossman, but he would have to win an open competition between him and Orton.

BeerBaron
01-03-2008, 02:09 PM
This is a tough call because Grossman showed improvement after he came back, even though it looks like fumbles are going to be a problem for him. Orton has the stuff, not as good an arm as Grossman, but if he gets more accurate, he could cut it.
A quarterback has to be drafted, but given the choice with these two, I would say Grossman, but he would have to win an open competition between him and Orton.

im not against signing grossman to a one or two year deal if he hits the market and doesn't find any suitors.

and i've noticed a lot of people really like his arm, but i just don't see it...his deep passes tend to flutter and drift a little more than i would like...idk...

but i think the bears QB situation should look like this headed into next year:

1.) Orton
2.) Grossman/FA
3.) QB drafted in the first 3 rounds

Gay Ork Wang
01-03-2008, 02:38 PM
I liked Orton's pass to Hester although it wasnt that deep. I think he put it into the right place

BeerBaron
01-03-2008, 02:41 PM
I liked Orton's pass to Hester although it wasnt that deep. I think he put it into the right place

i agree. ill sacrifice some arm strength if it means orton will be a better handler of the footall...something grossman never could do

regoob2
01-03-2008, 02:55 PM
I hope Orton can have a David Garrard esque season next year.

Gay Ork Wang
01-03-2008, 03:09 PM
We need a QB that doesnt turn the ball over. We dont need no freakin Playmaker like Manning who throws it through an eye of a needle.

We really need a David Garrard.

Billingsley26
01-03-2008, 03:27 PM
I wonder about J.P Losman's availablity, there have been rumors surrounding him all season and the job in Buffalo appears to be Edwards'. I would consider giving up a 4th rounder for him if his contract his reasonable (don't know off the top of my head). I'm not sold on Orton at this point, and would prefer Losman over Grossman.

Lossman and Grossman are basically the exact same type of QB. If you trade for Lossman, (who has one more year left on his contract) then you are basically replacing Grossman with another Grossman. Whats the point?

JP just likes to throw deep when he gets it, he never hits the checkdown, and has trouble with trying to thread the ball in tight spots when he obviously isnt able to. I would take Orton, or either make an offer for Mcnabb or draft someone. No point in replacing nothing with nothing.

BeerBaron
01-03-2008, 04:03 PM
Lossman and Grossman are basically the exact same type of QB. If you trade for Lossman, (who has one more year left on his contract) then you are basically replacing Grossman with another Grossman. Whats the point?

JP just likes to throw deep when he gets it, he never hits the checkdown, and has trouble with trying to thread the ball in tight spots when he obviously isnt able to. I would take Orton, or either make an offer for Mcnabb or draft someone. No point in replacing nothing with nothing.

i dont think id want to touch mcnabb. the eagles want way too much for him and hes never impressed me with his play. that on top of the fact that hes injury prone...

id rather bring back grossman for a year that trade for either mcnabb or losman

Bearsfan123
01-04-2008, 02:48 PM
Orton for me, with Grossman backing him up. Then just keep Griese for one more year just to hav 3 QBs. For awhile I thought Erik Ainge could be good but I dont like him anymore, none of the big three excite me, and im not a guy who wants to try and bring in a 1AA guy in Flacco especially with our track record with QBs. So wait a year until hopefully a better class comes out.

bearfan
01-04-2008, 04:27 PM
The only problem I see w/ bringing Grossman back is that it would be a "fight for the job" in TC. We all know this would not be the case, and that Lovie would hand the job right to Rex b/c Rex is his QB

awfullyquiet
01-04-2008, 04:40 PM
i agree. ill sacrifice some arm strength if it means orton will be a better handler of the footall...something grossman never could do

orton has a stronger arm than grossman. stronger. grossman will throw the ball deeper, better, but on out routes, orton has a stronger arm. and intermediate routes, which it's really more necessary to have the strong arm, we don't call deep plays every PA-pass... you need that arm to put the ball from point a to point b quick enough to not have people step in front of it. i.e. brian griese... noodlearm.

edit: if we pick up joe flacco or andre woodson, i have yet to trust the bears ability to groom a qb. meaning i'd only be okay with picking up: booty, ryan, or brohm. i don't even like brohm in this place though. ainge would be OKAY. and *gag* i can't believe i'm saying this, chad henne too. but. matt ryan would be my top pick on QB's. i think he's the real deal, is he going to be getabble? maybe. i mean. we'll. well. i don't know. yet. lemme think.

VoteLynnSwan
01-05-2008, 01:46 AM
yea, we need to draft a low ceiling high floor QB that requires as little development as possible. We don't need a superstar here, just someone who can make some throws and put take advantage of the amazing field position we get every damn play.

TapouT
01-05-2008, 01:57 AM
i say Mcnabb would be a good QB choice since hes from Chicago hes already proven 2 be a top QB hes still got some years left so no need 2 draft a QB right away but if a QB is drafted den Mcnabb wud be a good mentor aswell.

MaxV
01-05-2008, 08:51 AM
McNabb is a great choice for any team that needs a QB.

I still have him in my top 5 among NFL QBs. I don't think he's getting treated fairly in Philly.

bearfan
01-05-2008, 12:01 PM
I wouldnt want him. He has the same injury concerns as Grossman does, and he would cost a pretty penny to come here amongst other things. I would rather invest in a young QB in the draft, or keep Kyle Orton around to see what he can do as starter.

BeerBaron
01-05-2008, 11:40 PM
I wouldnt want him. He has the same injury concerns as Grossman does, and he would cost a pretty penny to come here amongst other things. I would rather invest in a young QB in the draft, or keep Kyle Orton around to see what he can do as starter.

EXACTLY!! thank you!!

mcnabb would cost way too much for a player whos oft injured and at no point in his career have i ever been impressed with him.

too many passes well over receivers heads and down around their ankles for my liking.

plus, the most accurate pass hes ever thrown hit ronde barber right between the numbers in thier playoff game a few years back....

i would be SO upset if he were made a bear

regoob2
01-05-2008, 11:49 PM
Mcnabb would be a great pick up but it would cost to much. If we could get McNabb for a 3rd or something like that you wouldn't? Come on now he is still a very good QB.

BeerBaron
01-05-2008, 11:51 PM
Mcnabb would be a great pick up but it would cost to much. If we could get McNabb for a 3rd or something like that you wouldn't? Come on now he is still a very good QB.

a third...sure....we have 2 and its a tiny enough investment to overlook his injury history and occassional, inexplicable rounds of being much lousier than advertised....

but even then, the bears should keep KO on as backup and bring in a rookie early on in the draft.

but only for a 3rd like you said.

no way id go near him with a first....(or the whopping THREE that philly said it'd take to pry him away earlier this year)

regoob2
01-05-2008, 11:59 PM
^No one would give 3 1st's.

awfullyquiet
01-06-2008, 02:29 AM
^No one would give 3 1st's.

that's what they were asking for though...

I would see atlanta maybe make a run for mcnabb. but that's about it. philly's probably going to keep him... and thus crush their chances of ever doing much while he's still there (why they ditched jeff garcia i'll never know...)

i also hope to god we don't draft andre woodson. i'd take flacco four times a day over woodson. i'd take ryan four times a day over flacco. i'd even take brohm or booty... i'm scared of what JA might do.

BeerBaron
01-06-2008, 10:47 AM
that's what they were asking for though...

I would see atlanta maybe make a run for mcnabb. but that's about it. philly's probably going to keep him... and thus crush their chances of ever doing much while he's still there (why they ditched jeff garcia i'll never know...)

i also hope to god we don't draft andre woodson. i'd take flacco four times a day over woodson. i'd take ryan four times a day over flacco. i'd even take brohm or booty... i'm scared of what JA might do.

oh well hell, i wouldn't touch ryan with a 39.5 foot pole. i've never been impressed with the guy...

flacco...maybe. like woodson he'd need to sit for at least a year and with Orton having, in my opinion, at least cemented having a chance to start next season, drafting woodson or flacco would be possible.

i see both of those guys having more star potential than brohm who might be more nfl ready but who i find pretty unspectacular....

im not sure why you wouldn't like woodson though...ive seen a few games by each of the "big 3" qb's and one of flacco and i've been most impressed by woodson. i think he was masterful in the louisville and LSU games, even outplaying brohm in the one.

hes pretty raw but like i said, with orton, he wouldn't have to play right away

awfullyquiet
01-07-2008, 11:23 AM
oh well hell, i wouldn't touch ryan with a 39.5 foot pole. i've never been impressed with the guy...

flacco...maybe. like woodson he'd need to sit for at least a year and with Orton having, in my opinion, at least cemented having a chance to start next season, drafting woodson or flacco would be possible.

i see both of those guys having more star potential than brohm who might be more nfl ready but who i find pretty unspectacular....

im not sure why you wouldn't like woodson though...ive seen a few games by each of the "big 3" qb's and one of flacco and i've been most impressed by woodson. i think he was masterful in the louisville and LSU games, even outplaying brohm in the one.

hes pretty raw but like i said, with orton, he wouldn't have to play right away

needless to say. i don't trust the chicago bears with turning a raw qb into a polished material. the bears need someone who'll make good decisions, which, andre woodson is not it. woodson is JUST AS MUCH of a risk taker as grossman, with just the same arm. taking woodson would just be asking for more of the same, only adding three inches (or if youre asking 51... it'd be five inches)...

i'm still not even sold on a first round QB this year. the bears are a run first team. i'd say that's their first priority over a QB. Fix the O-Line. Address the QB when it becomes a 'luxury' pick. which means. i mean. next year... right now amazingly, where our QB situation isn't 'great'... it's certainly not bad... no worse than the bills or niners. and better than the vikings, atlanta, and miami. sure. if the upgrade presents itself. we will. but the more i think of it... the less we will this year. but next years class only looks 'alright' for

Gay Ork Wang
01-07-2008, 11:25 AM
did u see what QBs r comin out next year?

BeerBaron
01-07-2008, 03:30 PM
did u see what QBs r comin out next year?

aye...that didn't look very promising. people, including me, have been saying this years "elite" quarterbacks really aren't so much...next year looks like its going to be a big mess...

but as for awfullyquiet, i agree that they shouldn't go QB in round 1, but if they do, i like woodson. difference of opinion in the players involved i suppose...

but i agree that they should take an OT with that first pick. outside of jake long, the bears will probably have anyone they want of the other OT's in the mix. Clady, Otah, Baker, Cherilius...um...im prolly forgetting someone...

anyway, take the guy who performs best out of that crew leading up to the draft and then go QB in round 2 or 3. not only will it free up orton to have a year as starter all by himself, but it'll also reduce expectations and the pressures on the QB taken since he won't be a first rounder

awfullyquiet
01-07-2008, 04:33 PM
aye...that didn't look very promising. people, including me, have been saying this years "elite" quarterbacks really aren't so much...next year looks like its going to be a big mess...

but as for awfullyquiet, i agree that they shouldn't go QB in round 1, but if they do, i like woodson. difference of opinion in the players involved i suppose...


we're talking people who might declare next year.
Tebow is the only name i can think of... chase daniel too. but he won't transfer over to the pro-level that well. he doesn't have the size.

BeerBaron
01-07-2008, 04:54 PM
we're talking people who might declare next year.
Tebow is the only name i can think of... chase daniel too. but he won't transfer over to the pro-level that well. he doesn't have the size.

thats what i meant in that next year is going to be a huge mess. no worthwhile QB's are going to be around...

awfullyquiet
01-07-2008, 05:02 PM
thats what i meant in that next year is going to be a huge mess. no worthwhile QB's are going to be around...

Agreed.

See. I think everyone misses what next year and the year after brings and focuses on the here now... gross/ko can probably be a sustainable QB for another two year period until a drew brees like (best case) or matt schaub (okay case) situation occurs. Maybe Aaron Rodgers in a trade, or BQ/Anderson next year... I mean FA's look better next year than the draft. For sure. *think* who else.

BeerBaron
01-07-2008, 05:05 PM
Agreed.

See. I think everyone misses what next year and the year after brings and focuses on the here now... gross/ko can probably be a sustainable QB for another two year period until a drew brees like (best case) or matt schaub (okay case) situation occurs. Maybe Aaron Rodgers (his contracts expiring), or BQ/Anderson next year... I mean FA's look better next year than the draft. For sure.

while i maintain that its not their biggest need, i do think the bears should really go QB in the 2-3 round range this year. Next year doesn't look promising and while I really really think orton should get at least a chance at 1 full year of starting, they should bring in someone to develop for the future, just not in round 1 with OT such a big need IMO

regoob2
01-07-2008, 08:32 PM
I'm not big on this year QB class but I don't think we should reach for a QB ever or any position. If there is a good value i'm all for it but we could use help at every position so I'd rather wait. Who knows right know who will rise and fall. Jamarcus Russell didn't enter the year as the concencius #1 pick last year and Brohm was the sure fire #1 pick at the start of this year so we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

bearfan
01-07-2008, 09:07 PM
I'm not big on this year QB class but I don't think we should reach for a QB ever or any position. If there is a good value i'm all for it but we could use help at every position so I'd rather wait. Who knows right know who will rise and fall. Jamarcus Russell didn't enter the year as the concencius #1 pick last year and Brohm was the sure fire #1 pick at the start of this year so we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

There are no players this year that will be superstars, but I think this class has the potential to have the best overall solidity (hope that makes sense). I think anyone from the 1st to 3rd round taken at QB has the potential to have a solid career, which I would be happy with. Next year all there is is Longshore and Tebow, and right now I am not digging Tebow in the NFL, and we would also have to lose a lot of our games for a QB like him.

pellepelle_10
01-08-2008, 02:15 AM
Mcnabb would be a great pick up but it would cost to much. If we could get McNabb for a 3rd or something like that you wouldn't? Come on now he is still a very good QB.

Given our many concerns at qb this guy would torch defenses. Give him some viable receiving options and he will do wonders. His injuries are a concern though. I think he could bring out the best in a lot of players we've only seen mediocre performances from. Berrian would have a field day with McNabb as well as Clark, Olsen and the gang. The question again is his injuries. *sigh*

awfullyquiet
01-08-2008, 12:21 PM
Given our many concerns at qb this guy would torch defenses. Give him some viable receiving options and he will do wonders. His injuries are a concern though. I think he could bring out the best in a lot of players we've only seen mediocre performances from. Berrian would have a field day with McNabb as well as Clark, Olsen and the gang. The question again is his injuries. *sigh*

I mean. The only reason why he makes sense is that we have a 'functional' qb underneath him. We don't have Joey Harrington. But he isn't worth the money that we'd have to put into a 10-game a season quarterback.

BeerBaron
01-08-2008, 01:08 PM
I mean. The only reason why he makes sense is that we have a 'functional' qb underneath him. We don't have Joey Harrington. But he isn't worth the money that we'd have to put into a 10-game a season quarterback.

or the 3 first round draft picks the eagles said it would take to pry him away. i wouldn't give up one for him.

maybe a 3rd rounder, that id consider a steal, but thats about it. no way hes worth a first rounder

Rush23Hester
01-08-2008, 01:33 PM
If I had to choose between the two of them, I would pick Kyle Orton. He can make a bad throw and still come back with confidence. If Grossman starts to falter, those bad throws and interceptions linger on his mind, thus continuing his bad play. Also Orton has shown a lot more signs of improvement in a 3 years stretch, then Grossman has.