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Hines
01-01-2008, 04:43 PM
Lets try to keep all the offseason and draft stuff in one thread. Post all mocks, free agency players, or anything about the draft or free agency in this thread. Post players you want, and this is mostly a discussion thread.


I am looking at players that could be good in free agency. I read that Damien Woody would test the free agent market. He is a guy I would like to look at, only if he takes a small two year, bout maybe 4 million contract. He could be a stop gap for Faneca. He is the same age as him too.

Also another player I would look at is Kalimba Edwards from Detriot. He I think could bulk up to about 270ish and play defensive end for us. He can rush the passer and be in the mold of Dewayne White basically.

Enjoy this thread, and remember to keep all the offseason stuff in this thread.

Hines
01-01-2008, 05:29 PM
A couple of backs I would like to look at as FA are Musa Smith, and Chauncy Washington from USC. Smith is proven, so he could spell Parker well, but Washington is probably the best back not named Joe McKnight on that team. Worth a shot I say.

Mr. Stiller
01-01-2008, 05:54 PM
I want Starks at LT and Stacy Andrews at RT. Why?

Because we have a solid core of top tier young talent, the last thing we need is to have to rebuild with Ben entering his prime.

Get those two, then go defense with the first 3 picks. Then go for depth.

Maualuga is looking like a great first round pick.

mikehop05
01-01-2008, 06:01 PM
i dont think RB is a need or a concern, i think najeh is a very capable backup and gary russell can be a decent 1 - 2 punch with willie..

Hines
01-01-2008, 08:10 PM
One player to watch out for next camp is Matt Lentz. He is currently on the PS, but I think he could make the team next year. He was a three year starter at Michigan and can play guard or tackle.

Hines
01-02-2008, 12:08 PM
I like Coach Bob Sutton from the Jets. I liked what he did with Ellis against us. I think we should bring him in as a coach, and when Lebeau steps down or retires, Sutton can come in and take his place.

Hines
01-02-2008, 02:28 PM
Ian Scott got released by the Eagles. He has good size and is a run stuffer. I say give him a shot as a back up, maybe even take Keisels spot.

Mr. Stiller
01-02-2008, 03:14 PM
Erin Henderson and Jamaal Charles declared.

I wouldn't Mind Erin Henderson or Rey Maualuga as our first round pick. I love Maualugas intensity and I think with LeBeau, we might be able to cut him loose like Kendrell Bell or Troy.

DeathbyStat
01-02-2008, 03:30 PM
I want Starks at LT and Stacy Andrews at RT. Why?

Because we have a solid core of top tier young talent, the last thing we need is to have to rebuild with Ben entering his prime.

Get those two, then go defense with the first 3 picks. Then go for depth.

Maualuga is looking like a great first round pick.

Excactly right on Maualuga...but would he play inside or outside

I'd like Rey in the First.

Devin Thomas in the second

and an unnamed lineman in the third

Hines
01-02-2008, 03:53 PM
Excactly right on Maualuga...but would he play inside or outside

I'd like Rey in the First.

Devin Thomas in the second

and an unnamed lineman in the third

Why is he unnamed?

DeathbyStat
01-02-2008, 03:57 PM
Why is he unnamed?

Because Im not sure who will be there

Hines
01-02-2008, 03:58 PM
Well I am thinking on doing a mock, but I am waiting till all the underclassmen declare. So by the 19th, I will make a mock.

TerribleEd
01-02-2008, 07:04 PM
Hasn't Rey Maualuga insisted on a few separate occassions that he is returning to USC for his senior year? Has he softened on this position?

He is by far my favorite prospect for the Steelers. I do not care if we have bigger needs or not. He is an animal.

That said, there is no way in hell that he is not a top 10 pick if he comes out. And who would likely wind up with him? The Patriots - that's who.

Here's hoping that Rey stays in school.

mikehop05
01-02-2008, 07:49 PM
Hasn't Rey Maualuga insisted on a few separate occassions that he is returning to USC for his senior year? Has he softened on this position?

He is by far my favorite prospect for the Steelers. I do not care if we have bigger needs or not. He is an animal.

That said, there is no way in hell that he is not a top 10 pick if he comes out. And who would likely wind up with him? The Patriots - that's who.

Here's hoping that Rey stays in school.
he wont necessarily be a lock for the top 10...

but top 25? yeah.

Hines
01-02-2008, 08:50 PM
I am not sold on Bloom. If we dont get Royal, I want us to get Darius Reynaud from West Virgina. Basically the same player as Royal and Reid, but is a better reciever. He would be beastly.

mikehop05
01-02-2008, 10:25 PM
I am not sold on Bloom. If we dont get Royal, I want us to get Darius Reynaud from West Virgina. Basically the same player as Royal and Reid, but is a better reciever. He would be beastly.

ive been very impressed with reynaud, dingle, and schmit as far as prospects go for the steelers in this game

Hines
01-02-2008, 10:26 PM
ive been very impressed with reynaud, dingle, and schmit as far as prospects go for the steelers in this game

I am very impressed with Reynaud and Dingle. Too bad that I believe we could have a shot at one.

mikehop05
01-02-2008, 11:22 PM
I am very impressed with Reynaud and Dingle. Too bad that I believe we could have a shot at one.

? what do u mean?

Mr. Stiller
01-02-2008, 11:44 PM
Because Im not sure who will be there

Probably John Greco of Toledo who I think is fantastically underrated.

steel man
01-03-2008, 12:34 AM
if we do not get Schmitt i am going to be very upset, if there is one player in the whole draft that i want no matter what it would be Schmitt. Kreider is getting older and now he is starting to get hurt, so we need a new younger Kreider and Schmitt is a whole lot better than Kreider and he can run the ball also and that would solve our short yardage problems also and being from WVU he will have a lot of fan following.

steel man
01-03-2008, 12:35 AM
i think Schmitt is and could be better than the Bus!!!

i.want.troys.hair
01-03-2008, 10:24 AM
I like Mr. Stiller's ideas of going after Patrick Crayton and maybe Randy Starks from the Titans.

If we get at least Crayton or another legitimate wide-reciever threat via free-agency, this is my mock...

2008

1 Jeff Otah- OT, Pittsburgh
2 Tracy Porter- CB, Indiana
3 Chad Rinehart- OT, N. Iowa
4 Owen Schmitt- FB, WVU
5 Keilan Dykes- DE, WVU
6 Kerry Brown- OG, App. State

Then, in years to come...

2009

1 Phillip Mehrling- OLB
2 Ramses Barden- WR
3 Jason Chapman- DE
3 Chris Clemmons- FS
4 BJ Raji- NT
5 Daniel Holtzclaw- ILB
6 Nick Walker- TE
7 Stephen Hodge- FS

2010

1 P.J. Hill- RB
2 Emmanuel Cook- SS
3 Boo Robinson- NT
4 Vladamir Richard- OG
5 Leigh Tiffin- K
6 Emmanuel Sanders- WR/KR
7 Matt Nichols- QB

Let me know what you think. I'll try to explain any pick that you want me to.

Jakey
01-03-2008, 10:37 AM
Crayton just got a 5 year extention...so WR might need to be addredded this year

i.want.troys.hair
01-03-2008, 10:39 AM
good to know about crayton. thanks.

Jakey
01-03-2008, 10:45 AM
As for the '08 mock...i love Otah, Porter would be a good pick, i think we can get a better prospect than Rinehart in the 3rd, Schmitt would be a good pick, i like Dykes, and Brown is o.k. Overall not a bad mock...but nothing sexy

Jakey
01-03-2008, 10:56 AM
Prospect:

Andy Studebacker - DE/OLB - Wheaton - 6'3" - 245 - 4.47

projected round: 7th - UDFA.

Has any1 got any info on this kid???

Hines
01-03-2008, 11:09 AM
One player that I like is Bryan Smith from McNease State. He is 6-3 about 235-240 pounds. He runs about a 4.5-4.6. He is a pass rusher with 31 career sacks. I say bring him in as a UDFA and see what he can do.

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 11:26 AM
if we do not get Schmitt i am going to be very upset, if there is one player in the whole draft that i want no matter what it would be Schmitt. Kreider is getting older and now he is starting to get hurt, so we need a new younger Kreider and Schmitt is a whole lot better than Kreider and he can run the ball also and that would solve our short yardage problems also and being from WVU he will have a lot of fan following.

Schmitt is a beast i agree, but it may take our 2nd to get him... and ask yourself this, is he really THAT much of an upgrade over carey davis/ dan kreider that we need to spend our 2nd on him? Especially if players like tracey porter, devin thomas, and other may be around? Now if he can be had in the 4th id say absolutely take him, the 3rd... not so much...

Hines
01-03-2008, 11:28 AM
Schmitt is a beast i agree, but it may take our 2nd to get him... and ask yourself this, is he really THAT much of an upgrade over carey davis/ dan kreider that we need to spend our 2nd on him? Especially if players like tracey porter, devin thomas, and other may be around? Now if he can be had in the 4th id say absolutely take him, the 3rd... not so much...


He is a HUGE upgrade over Kreider and Davis.

Jakey
01-03-2008, 11:29 AM
Hines what do u think of Stillers idea of swithching to a 4-3/tampa 2???

Hines
01-03-2008, 11:33 AM
Hines what do u think of Stillers idea of swithching to a 4-3/tampa 2???

Eh, I am not too crazy about it. It is basically a scheme to stop the deep pass really. I like the idenitiy of stopping the run and rushing the passer. I dont want to have a huge makeover just to find this. I like the 34 as I grew up watching that. But if it helps our team, then so be it.

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 11:43 AM
He is a HUGE upgrade over Kreider and Davis.

how so? is he enough to merit spending our 2nd rd pick on him? What does a fullback do anyways? Block and occasionally run the ball...

Jakey
01-03-2008, 11:48 AM
Eh, I am not too crazy about it. It is basically a scheme to stop the deep pass really. I like the idenitiy of stopping the run and rushing the passer. I dont want to have a huge makeover just to find this. I like the 34 as I grew up watching that. But if it helps our team, then so be it.

I'm thinking more like the Giants run...just constant passrush. But we also have a better secondary than the Giants, so i think we could run it pretty good.

Hines
01-03-2008, 11:55 AM
how so? is he enough to merit spending our 2nd rd pick on him? What does a fullback do anyways? Block and occasionally run the ball...

He can run, catch, and block. Basically a bigger Leonard. He isnt as athletic as Leonard, but he can do everything Leonard can do. He wont be in the second. I say about the 4th-5th round.

Mr. Stiller
01-03-2008, 12:10 PM
Prospect:

Andy Studebacker - DE/OLB - Wheaton - 6'3" - 245 - 4.47

projected round: 7th - UDFA.

Has any1 got any info on this kid???

Andy Studebaker has like 40+ Sacks in his Jr. + Sr. year. Not to mention like 50+ TFL's over that time. I say him last year and thought he'd be interesting.

I hope for him he gets a combine/Senior bowl invite, I hope for us, he doesn't.

Mr. Stiller
01-03-2008, 12:12 PM
He can run, catch, and block. Basically a bigger Leonard. He isnt as athletic as Leonard, but he can do everything Leonard can do. He wont be in the second. I say about the 4th-5th round.

I agree.

Leonard was a second rounder on Crazy Athleticism. 4.5 40' at 6'2 229lbs. Owen Schmitt is a good prospect, but he'll probably run a 4.7-4.8.

He's not near the reciever or running back Leonard was, but he's 2-3x the blocker.

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 12:17 PM
He can run, catch, and block. Basically a bigger Leonard. He isnt as athletic as Leonard, but he can do everything Leonard can do. He wont be in the second. I say about the 4th-5th round.

i really hope the guy is there in the 4th or 5th, but something tells me he won't... just like mike alstott... who was picked in the 2nd round

Hines
01-03-2008, 12:46 PM
Javon Kerse might get cut from the Eagles. Why not bring him east and sign him to a small deal and he can be a situational pass rusher for us.

Jakey
01-03-2008, 12:47 PM
^ Lamarr Woodley can do that job...i think we could spend the money elsewhere

Hines
01-03-2008, 12:52 PM
The thing with Kearse is, I think he can put his hand down and rush the passer.

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 12:52 PM
^ Lamarr Woodley can do that job...i think we could spend the money elsewhere

agreed, plus i dont want to take up more roster space with over the hill guys

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 12:53 PM
p.s. i just spent a solid 4 minutes staring at jakey's sig

Jakey
01-03-2008, 12:58 PM
haha this is my favourite sig by far! :p

Jakey
01-03-2008, 01:09 PM
Erin Henderson has been projected to go in round 3...i think he would be an ideal replacement for Farrior when he retires, what do u guys think of him???

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 01:19 PM
Erin Henderson has been projected to go in round 3...i think he would be an ideal replacement for Farrior when he retires, what do u guys think of him???

obviously by my sig i love the guy, if we landed him in round 2 i feel that would be a steal much less 3... he is one of the most athletic middle linebackers in the draft, and he will probably be one of the strongest as well...

I think after his workouts he will move up to sometime in the 2nd round... kind of like his brother, E.J. (though i feel Erin is a better prospect)

Jakey
01-03-2008, 01:45 PM
Quick Mock

1: Adarius Bowman - WR - Oklahoma St - 6'4" - 220 - 4.50

2: Erin Henderson - ILB - Maryland - 6'3" - 242 - 4.58

3: Darrell Robertson - DE/OLB - Georgia Tech - 6'5" - 245 - 4.72

4: Barry Richardson - OT - Clemson - 6'7" - 338 - 5.25

5: Keilen Dykes - DE - West Virginia - 6'4" - 295 - 5.03

6: King Dunlap - OT - Auburn - 6'9" - 315 - 5.06

If you've got any questions about any picks, i'll be happy to answer. Any comments would be appreciated, thanks guys.

Hines
01-03-2008, 01:50 PM
Quick Mock

1: Adarius Bowman - WR - Oklahoma St - 6'4" - 220 - 4.50

2: Erin Henderson - ILB - Maryland - 6'3" - 242 - 4.58

3: Darrell Robertson - DE/OLB - Georgia Tech - 6'5" - 245 - 4.72

4: Barry Richardson - OT - Clemson - 6'7" - 338 - 5.25

5: Keilen Dykes - DE - West Virginia - 6'4" - 295 - 5.03

6: King Dunlap - OT - Auburn - 6'9" - 315 - 5.06

If you've got any questions about any picks, i'll be happy to answer. Any comments would be appreciated, thanks guys.

Thats a pretty good mock. I like the Bowman pick. He was in the slot a lot in the Insight Bowl and was a beast there. Henderson is my favorite linebacker in the draft, but I believe he will be a first rounder IMO. I dont know much of Robertson, but what iI have read of him is that he is a good pass rusher. If Richardson can become motivated again, he will be a beast. Dykes is a good player who impressed me last night. I am not so sure about Dunlap. I think we could use this on a return specialist. Give me Reynaud here.

Jakey
01-03-2008, 01:53 PM
Yeah i wasnt too sure about Dunlap either...but seems his only problem is technique, i thought that would be easily worked out with the help of NFL coaches. If Max Starks is resigned that wont be a need, but if he's not...were gonna be real short of depth.

Palmer26
01-03-2008, 01:57 PM
OT has to be priority.

And right now, the two l ikely candidates look to be Sam Baker out of USC and Gosder Cherilus out of BC.

Baker, 6'5 310, is a natural LT. He would be a replacement for Marvel Smith.

Cherilus, 6'7 315, is more suited to be a RT and could start from Day 1 next year. The potential could be there to be the LT down the road.

IMO, our 1st round pick needs to be one of these guys.

Owen Schmitt is my favorite player in this draft, however, he will continue to rise up draft boards and will probably end up being out of our reach.

Keilan Dykes would be a solid 3-4 DE for the Steelers. Also, I really like what Jonny Dingle showed this season, and he will be entering the draft and would be a great Day 2 pick up as a backup 3-4 OLB and 3-4 DE.

I'm also keeping an eye on the two OTs from Rutgers, Pedro Sosa and Jeremy Zuttah.

Hines
01-03-2008, 02:27 PM
What do you guys think of Darren Howard?

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 02:31 PM
OT has to be priority.

And right now, the two l ikely candidates look to be Sam Baker out of USC and Gosder Cherilus out of BC.

Baker, 6'5 310, is a natural LT. He would be a replacement for Marvel Smith.

Cherilus, 6'7 315, is more suited to be a RT and could start from Day 1 next year. The potential could be there to be the LT down the road.

IMO, our 1st round pick needs to be one of these guys.

Owen Schmitt is my favorite player in this draft, however, he will continue to rise up draft boards and will probably end up being out of our reach.

Keilan Dykes would be a solid 3-4 DE for the Steelers. Also, I really like what Jonny Dingle showed this season, and he will be entering the draft and would be a great Day 2 pick up as a backup 3-4 OLB and 3-4 DE.

I'm also keeping an eye on the two OTs from Rutgers, Pedro Sosa and Jeremy Zuttah.

Theres no way that Schmitt is out of our reach in the first round, i love the kid but unless we can get him with our fourth... MAYBE third pick then i'd pass on him.. he just doesn't fill any holes for us

As far as OT's go i am not a fan of gosder at all, he may be an above average run blocker in his prime but he has been whipped around in the ACC this year, especially against speed guys.. and if you can't be dominant in the ACC then you won't be in the NFL. I am not sold on Baker, i think he kid is a little soft.. guys I would only look at with our #1 pick right now would be Otah and Clady, but I doubt either of them will be there

Also, love dingle, i love the kids motor, his passion, not to mention his skill set... if he can be had with our 4th i wouldn't hesitate to grab him

Hines
01-03-2008, 02:34 PM
Keep in mind, if we cant get Owen, we can still pick up Jehuu Caulcrick as an UDFA. I believe Caulcrick is faster then Schmit.

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 02:38 PM
Quick Mock

1: Adarius Bowman - WR - Oklahoma St - 6'4" - 220 - 4.50

2: Erin Henderson - ILB - Maryland - 6'3" - 242 - 4.58

3: Darrell Robertson - DE/OLB - Georgia Tech - 6'5" - 245 - 4.72

4: Barry Richardson - OT - Clemson - 6'7" - 338 - 5.25

5: Keilen Dykes - DE - West Virginia - 6'4" - 295 - 5.03

6: King Dunlap - OT - Auburn - 6'9" - 315 - 5.06

If you've got any questions about any picks, i'll be happy to answer. Any comments would be appreciated, thanks guys.

I like the draft, pretty sexy at top and fills holes / depth towards the bottom, I hope Erin will be there in the 2nd, i would cry tears of joy, but we'll see after the combine where I expect him to put up huge numbers.

Bowman is probably my second favorite receiver in the draft, next to Malcolm Kelly, and the only reason why i like Kelly more is because the dude is a beast for me in Madden.. hahah

All joking aside though I love Bowman I think he would be an excelelnt pick for us and would be a great steeler. Also, does anyone remember how much ben loved Plax... mainly because of his height? We don't have anything like that right now, and adding Bowman would be an awesome addition to our team.

Only thing I would like to see addressed would be a return man...

Darrius Reynaud I think would fit the bill quite nicely. A guy like him will be a special teams Daemon on all faucets of the game... Punt, Return, Kick, Kick Return...

I do not know much of Robertson, anything you can tell me Jakey?

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 02:42 PM
Stiller and I were talking about this last night, he brought it up and I just have to agree...

Brandon Flowers, CB, VT = Beast.

Dude's about 5'11" 200lbs-ish, and is an animal, goto youtube and type in his name and watch some of his clips from LAST year, he is one of the most physical corners I have ever seen.

But, not only is he physical, he has the complete package, he can run with most of em, and his ball skills are above average.

My only knocks on him is that some of the hits that he makes (tackling up high) may not work in the NFL.

He is only a junior, but there are rumors that he will come out, and if he does it would be intriguing to see where he ends up on draft boards, and I think is a player the steelers need to seriously look at getting.

Hines
01-03-2008, 02:47 PM
Stiller and I were talking about this last night, he brought it up and I just have to agree...

Brandon Flowers, CB, VT = Beast.

Dude's about 5'11" 200lbs-ish, and is an animal, goto youtube and type in his name and watch some of his clips from LAST year, he is one of the most physical corners I have ever seen.

But, not only is he physical, he has the complete package, he can run with most of em, and his ball skills are above average.

My only knocks on him is that some of the hits that he makes (tackling up high) may not work in the NFL.

He is only a junior, but there are rumors that he will come out, and if he does it would be intriguing to see where he ends up on draft boards, and I think is a player the steelers need to seriously look at getting.


Oh trust me man, I have a crush on him too. I think his Facebook picture will make people not be high on his character, but I believe if hes there in the second, we better pick him. That is if he comes out this year. Would make me smile everytime I see Flowers and Smith jack someone up and talk **** to them. I can see it now.

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 02:50 PM
Oh trust me man, I have a crush on him too. I think his Facebook picture will make people not be high on his character, but I believe if hes there in the second, we better pick him. That is if he comes out this year. Would make me smile everytime I see Flowers and Smith jack someone up and talk **** to them. I can see it now.

yeah his facebook picture was stupid but i mean... the steelers are pretty darn good at evaluating character, and after talking with flowers if they feel like he will be a good citizen and teammate for them and stay out of trouble then i back their decision 100%

i am excited to watch his play tonight

steelersfan27
01-03-2008, 05:20 PM
what do you guys think of Nick Hayden? He reminds me of Aaron Smith.

Palmer26
01-03-2008, 05:26 PM
Theres no way that Schmitt is out of our reach in the first round, i love the kid but unless we can get him with our fourth... MAYBE third pick then i'd pass on him.. he just doesn't fill any holes for us

As far as OT's go i am not a fan of gosder at all, he may be an above average run blocker in his prime but he has been whipped around in the ACC this year, especially against speed guys.. and if you can't be dominant in the ACC then you won't be in the NFL. I am not sold on Baker, i think he kid is a little soft.. guys I would only look at with our #1 pick right now would be Otah and Clady, but I doubt either of them will be there

Also, love dingle, i love the kids motor, his passion, not to mention his skill set... if he can be had with our 4th i wouldn't hesitate to grab him

Yeah, I was referring to Schmitt still being around in the 2nd or 3rd.

I disagree about Cherilus. He didn't look too great this year because he was at LT all year for the first time in his career. Before that, I thought he was a dominant RT for BC.

As for Baker, other than Clady I don't know if there is a better pure LT prospect. He is a bigtime pass protector and would be a franchise LT to protect Ben's blindside.

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 05:32 PM
Yeah, I was referring to Schmitt still being around in the 2nd or 3rd.

I disagree about Cherilus. He didn't look too great this year because he was at LT all year for the first time in his career. Before that, I thought he was a dominant RT for BC.

As for Baker, other than Clady I don't know if there is a better pure LT prospect. He is a bigtime pass protector and would be a franchise LT to protect Ben's blindside.

I really want to see more of Baker, i think with Clady entering we could have a shot of either of the two in the first quite possibly

Hines
01-03-2008, 05:36 PM
I dont think we need all that much on the oline front. We have the pieces, they just need to play in the right spots. I believe they will move Colon to RG, with Starks at LT. Simmons could play a good LG, and if he shows something, Essex can play RT. Mahan sucks as a starter, so put him on the bench. We have Stapleton as our backup center. We have Kemo as a backup at both guards. We have Capizzi and Parquet as backup tackles. Smith will be back next year maybe. I really think we need a guard/tackle tweener. John Greco comes to mind in the third round. We can get an UDFA for center. All we need is depth, other then that, my main focus is toughening up our defense by getting replacements for Farrior, Aaron Smith, Keisel, and Deshea. Plus getting a Hines replacement.


I see us cutting Reid, Wilson, and maybe Marvel Smith. I would like to sign Flozell Adams, Bryant Johnson or Ian Scott. Damien Woody would be a good option as well as oline depth.

Washington has grown on me the past couple of weeks and I think if he works on his hands in the offseason, he can be a great slot reciever for us. Wilson, while he does make plays for us, is too expensive for a fourth/fifth reciever, so he is cut.

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 05:51 PM
I dont think we need all that much on the oline front. We have the pieces, they just need to play in the right spots. I believe they will move Colon to RG, with Starks at LT. Simmons could play a good LG, and if he shows something, Essex can play RT. Mahan sucks as a starter, so put him on the bench. We have Stapleton as our backup center. We have Kemo as a backup at both guards. We have Capizzi and Parquet as backup tackles. Smith will be back next year maybe. I really think we need a guard/tackle tweener. John Greco comes to mind in the third round. We can get an UDFA for center. All we need is depth, other then that, my main focus is toughening up our defense by getting replacements for Farrior, Aaron Smith, Keisel, and Deshea. Plus getting a Hines replacement.


I see us cutting Reid, Wilson, and maybe Marvel Smith. I would like to sign Flozell Adams, Bryant Johnson or Ian Scott. Damien Woody would be a good option as well as oline depth.

Washington has grown on me the past couple of weeks and I think if he works on his hands in the offseason, he can be a great slot reciever for us. Wilson, while he does make plays for us, is too expensive for a fourth/fifth reciever, so he is cut.

your only problem with that line is yoou have no starting center i believe :)

move Simmons to C, and put kemo at LG then the rest of the lineup seems decent enough

Hines
01-03-2008, 06:17 PM
your only problem with that line is yoou have no starting center i believe :)

move Simmons to C, and put kemo at LG then the rest of the lineup seems decent enough

Thats what I was going to do really. It would be ideal. We have depth at the tackles, and guard spots too. We just need to sign a mid level free agent for the oline.

steel man
01-03-2008, 06:33 PM
i am trying to decide on players for a mock....if i list guys and i have a few will you guys tell me what you think? i will list 4 or 5 at a time by position.

Hines
01-03-2008, 06:35 PM
Yeah sure, go right ahead.

steel man
01-03-2008, 06:40 PM
why i want your opinion is because every time , it seems, that i like someone or pick them in a certain round you guys tell me there is no way he will be there or i am picking him to high. last year it drove me nuts trying to get a complete mock. i know these are just opinion and what you think but you guys study this more and have inside hook ups that i dont and i dont have time(with 3 girls and working 50+ hours a week) to look stuff up that why i go months at a time with out being on here.

so here is to your endless knowledge. I SALUTE YOU!!!!!

steel man
01-03-2008, 06:45 PM
Yeah sure, go right ahead.

Thanks

Let's go position by position:

QB: do we need a better back up than Batch, he looked awful last week and i know that is just one game but he is older. having said that what do you guys think about

Sam Keller- NEB
Brandon Cox- AUB
Joe Flacco- Delaware

steel man
01-03-2008, 06:47 PM
or would it be better to pick someone up in FA or UDFA because if Ben keeps getting sacked like he did this year he is going to miss games here and there and one game could cost us a playoff spot

Hines
01-03-2008, 06:47 PM
I think we could use a backup to push BSP off the roster. Flacco will be a first day player, and I think we will go UDFA with this one.

steelersfan27
01-03-2008, 07:02 PM
what day is the cutoff to register for the draft. Is it January 16th?

mikehop05
01-03-2008, 07:24 PM
what day is the cutoff to register for the draft. Is it January 16th?

i thnk around there, possibly the 19th

as far as qb's go do we still have randall on our P.S.?

the kid can throw the ball a hundred miles an hour

steelersfan27
01-03-2008, 07:49 PM
i thnk around there, possibly the 19th

as far as qb's go do we still have randall on our P.S.?

the kid can throw the ball a hundred miles an hour
__________________


but does he have any accuracy?

TerribleEd
01-03-2008, 08:05 PM
p.s. i just spent a solid 4 minutes staring at jakey's sig

So did you smoke a cigarette at the end of that four minutes or simply roll over and go to sleep?

It is a great sig!

Hines
01-03-2008, 08:07 PM
Eddie Royal is the next Devin Hester or Josh Cribbs. He is that damn explosive returning kicks.

OH and btw, Randall isnt on our practice squad.

TerribleEd
01-03-2008, 08:08 PM
Stiller and I were talking about this last night, he brought it up and I just have to agree...

Brandon Flowers, CB, VT = Beast.

Dude's about 5'11" 200lbs-ish, and is an animal, goto youtube and type in his name and watch some of his clips from LAST year, he is one of the most physical corners I have ever seen.

But, not only is he physical, he has the complete package, he can run with most of em, and his ball skills are above average.

My only knocks on him is that some of the hits that he makes (tackling up high) may not work in the NFL.

He is only a junior, but there are rumors that he will come out, and if he does it would be intriguing to see where he ends up on draft boards, and I think is a player the steelers need to seriously look at getting.

I would love either Brandon Flowers or Dre Moore to be available for us in Rd 2. I do like Heyden a couple rounds later, but prefer Dre Moore.

Hines
01-03-2008, 08:10 PM
I saw Hayden play against the Vols. The kid was in the backfield every play.


Flowers is hitting like a truck tonight, and LT Duane Brown is impressing me with his pass blocking.

Mr. Stiller
01-03-2008, 08:28 PM
^ Lamarr Woodley can do that job...i think we could spend the money elsewhere

LaMarr will be starting Strongside.. We could use a Weakside OLB. Kearse was "The Freak" for a reason. He was pretty much the first "Merriman" Type OLB prospect when we were the only defense running the 3-4.

That said. I think we should hold off 1 more year. Harrison at WOLB and Woodley at SOLB, with Timmons at WILB and Farrior at SILB for one more season atleast before we bring in a guy to train behind Harrison (Ricky Sapp) and Farrior(Maualuga/Spikes).

Trade our first for a 2nd, 3rd and 2009 1st. That should put us in prime position to grab a Premier Passrusher, which we've been lacking since Lloyd left, and a premium SILB to replace Farrior.

For those that say that we definitely need OL.. we do. But we could pull it off.

2a) Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt / Andrew Gardner, OT, Georgia Tech.
2b) Brandon Flowers, CB, Virginia Tech
3a) Erin Henderson, ILB, Maryland
3b) Dre Moore, RDE, Maryland
4) John Greco, OG/RT, Toledo
5) Jeremy Thompson, LOLB, Wake Forest
6) Jeremy Leman, ST, Illinois

2009:

1a) Ricky Sapp, ROLB, Clemson
1b) Devin Thomas, WR, Michigan State
and so on.

Mr. Stiller
01-03-2008, 08:29 PM
but does he have any accuracy?

No one will ever know.

Mr. Stiller
01-03-2008, 08:30 PM
i thnk around there, possibly the 19th

as far as qb's go do we still have randall on our P.S.?

the kid can throw the ball a hundred miles an hour

January 15th.

Randall look like he had potential if given the opportunity. Another waste, just like Omar Jacobs.

Hines
01-03-2008, 09:32 PM
I like Duane Brown from Va Tech. I think he will be a good pro player. Another player that has impressed me is Anthony Collins from Kansas. I think Collins and Talib declare after the game.

Hines
01-03-2008, 10:04 PM
Jerome Mathis might get cut from the Texans. If so, I would like to pick him up as our KR/PR. He is FAST and was a Pro Bowler his rookie season. Yes he is always injured, but I would love to take a shot at him next season.

Jakey
01-04-2008, 06:38 AM
Some players to look out for if you are watching the bowl games:

- Jamaal Westerrman (DE Rutgers)
- Mike Fladell (OG Rutgers)
- Jeremy Zuttah (OT Rutgers)
- Eric Foster (DT Rutgers)
- Ron Girault (FS Rutgers)
- Tiguan Underwood (WR Rutgers)
- Dante Love (WR Ball State)
- Robert Brewster (OT Ball State)
- Paul Smith (QB Tulsa)
- Nelson Coleman (ILB Tulsa) - I love this kid
- Kory Lichtensteiger (C Bowling Green)

steel man
01-04-2008, 08:50 AM
sorry guys, my power went out as i was typing, and did not come back on until like 5:00 am this morning and last night it got -5(5 below zero) wind chill -24 and we had no heat, a fun night my girls loved running around the house in the dark and playing hind and seek. anyway i am at work right now but when i get home i would like to finish what i started. it is friday and after my girls go to sleep i will be up until i finish it. thanks guys for letting me tap into your knowledge.

steel man
01-04-2008, 08:52 AM
i was wanting to watch the game last night and did not get to (the power deal) there was 2-3 CB's that i wanted to watch. was it a good game or did i miss anything at all.

joercky
01-04-2008, 09:30 AM
Resign Ben. We need more depth at O-line. Resign Essex and Kemoeatu. Draft a corner. Aqua Talib might be availble or if Macho Harris comes out draft him. He is a playmaker and 1 of the most underrated corners in the nation. Let Haggens go and replace him w/ Woodley.

Hines
01-04-2008, 09:33 AM
We dont need that much oline depth. We can sign a guard in free agency and let Mahan be a backup and start Simmons at C.

Jakey
01-04-2008, 11:34 AM
Prospect

Orlando Scandrick (Jr) - CB - Boise State - 6'00 - 188 - 4.36

Started 36 consecutive games, great special teamer, returns kicks, blocked 4 kicks this year, good in man and zone coverage.

Given a 4th round grade by the NFL-Advisory comitee...but his agent told him not to expect to go higher than the 5th or 6th round. I think he would be a good pickup in the 5th...kinda like William *** was this year...but more versitile.

Tell me what you think.

Hines
01-04-2008, 11:39 AM
Prospect

Orlando Scandrick (Jr) - CB - Boise State - 6'00 - 188 - 4.36

Started 36 consecutive games, great special teamer, returns kicks, blocked 4 kicks this year, good in man and zone coverage.

Given a 4th round grade by the NFL-Advisory comitee...but his agent told him not to expect to go higher than the 5th or 6th round. I think he would be a good pickup in the 5th...kinda like William *** was this year...but more versitile.

Tell me what you think.

The only thing I would bring him in for is for ST to be a gunner and to cover kicks. Other then that, there are way better corners out there. Even though he does intrigue me.

steel man
01-04-2008, 12:04 PM
what do you guys think of these CB and who do you like and what rounds do you think they will go?

Aqib Talib - Kan
Terrell Thomas - USC
Darnell Terrell - Missouri
Dominique Rodgers Cromartie - Tenn St.
Charles Godfrey - Iowa

i like Darnell Terrell and Aqib Talib, what little i have saw of them. thats why i hate that i missed the game last night

steel man
01-04-2008, 12:12 PM
also tell me if you agree with my thinking on o-line. i am thinking draft OL that are from a passing team, that is what seems like we are not doing good at plus we have a HOF QB now that we have not had since Terry Bradshaw, we have to keep him on his feet. we can run, parker was leading the NFL in rushing. my way of thinking is that we are going more to the pass anyway but most of all i feel like if you can pass block then you can push people around in the running game plus i think we should get faster tackles because every one is going smaller and quicker on the ends so we need our guys to have good feet and be quicker for the pass rush als they can use their speed to get up field and block in the running game? do you guys think that is the best way to look at it when drafting OL?

Hines
01-04-2008, 12:17 PM
what do you guys think of these CB and who do you like and what rounds do you think they will go?

Aqib Talib - Kan
Terrell Thomas - USC
Darnell Terrell - Missouri
Dominique Rodgers Cromartie - Tenn St.
Charles Godfrey - Iowa

i like Darnell Terrell and Aqib Talib, what little i have saw of them. thats why i hate that i missed the game last night

Aqib Talib- Big, fast corner. Good ball skills and can also play reciever. Can return kicks as well. Late 1st/Early 2nd. Could play Fs in the pros.

Terrell Thomas- Underrated. Big, fast. Early 2nd to late 3rd depending on workouts

Darnell Terrell- Big, really big. Probably most suited to play saftey in the pros.

Cromartie- he is tall, but thin. Could play in this league. Can return kicks. Workouts will determine where he goes in the draft. I say 2nd-4th

Godfrey-Underrated player. Big, fast, strong. good ball skills and is physical and will stick his nose in the pile. 2nd-4th

Jakey
01-04-2008, 12:19 PM
Aqib Talib - Kan - Good player, big, pysical, great hands, but not very quick - late round 1

Terrell Thomas - USC - Ballhawk, good speed, underrated - mid round 2

Darnell Terrell - Missouri - All the physicals...but not much natural skill...versitile, could also play saftey - round 5

Dominique Rodgers Cromartie - Tenn St. - Tall and fast, needs to add some more bulk, good natural skills. Probably the best small-schooler in the draft - round 2

Charles Godfrey - Iowa - My fav' CB in the whole draft...big, strong and fast. Good ball skills, good tackler. Could also play some safety - round 3

I like all of them...but i wouldn't want a CB untill at least round 2. Some others i like are; Tracy Porter, Brandon Flowers, Macho Harris, Trae Williams, Dwight Lowry, Justin King and Jack Ikegwuono

mikehop05
01-04-2008, 12:58 PM
Aqib Talib - Kan - Good player, big, pysical, great hands, but not very quick - late round 1

Terrell Thomas - USC - Ballhawk, good speed, underrated - mid round 2

Darnell Terrell - Missouri - All the physicals...but not much natural skill...versitile, could also play saftey - round 5

Dominique Rodgers Cromartie - Tenn St. - Tall and fast, needs to add some more bulk, good natural skills. Probably the best small-schooler in the draft - round 2

Charles Godfrey - Iowa - My fav' CB in the whole draft...big, strong and fast. Good ball skills, good tackler. Could also play some safety - round 3

I like all of them...but i wouldn't want a CB untill at least round 2. Some others i like are; Tracy Porter, Brandon Flowers, Macho Harris, Trae Williams, Dwight Lowry, Justin King and Jack Ikegwuono

i like tracey porter as well, also the VT corners.. Flowers played decent last night and had a couple huge hits as did Harris, but I was expecting more...

I'd snatch up Terrell Thomas with our 2nd in a heart beat if he was there, I think the kid has what it takes to eventually replace the ageless townsend (something many other corners were not able to do)...

though i am still a fan of ***, especially with a lot of the cov. 3 that we run, he is very well suited for that and is practically a townsend clone

Jakey
01-04-2008, 01:50 PM
Prospect

Justin Harper - WR - Virginia Tech - 6'4" - 200 - 4.35

I'm thinking kinda like a Nate Washington player...not a full time starter, but a big play guy, who moves the chains. Any1 got any info on him???

Hines
01-04-2008, 01:53 PM
Prospect

Justin Harper - WR - Virginia Tech - 6'4" - 200 - 4.35

I'm thinking kinda like a Nate Washington player...not a full time starter, but a big play guy, who moves the chains. Any1 got any info on him???

Dropped a lot of passes last night. Made a nice touchdown grab and had a nice return for a touchdown. Wasnt really impressed. I have a d-line prospect that reminds me of Luis Castillo a lot. He will be in my mock.

mikehop05
01-04-2008, 01:58 PM
Prospect

Justin Harper - WR - Virginia Tech - 6'4" - 200 - 4.35

I'm thinking kinda like a Nate Washington player...not a full time starter, but a big play guy, who moves the chains. Any1 got any info on him???

id rather take a guy thats 5'7" 120lbs runs a 5.0 but can catch the ball

steel man
01-04-2008, 05:41 PM
here are the OT that i was looking out, i will have more player at the positions that i think that we need to draft or use our higher picks on.

Gosder Cherilus - BC
Ben Giacomini - UL
Oniel Cousins - UTEP
Tony HIlls - Texas
Sam Baker - USC
Duane Brown - VT
Shannon Boatman -FSU

mikehop05
01-04-2008, 05:48 PM
here are the OT that i was looking out, i will have more player at the positions that i think that we need to draft or use our higher picks on.

Gosder Cherilus - BC
Ben Giacomini - UL
Oniel Cousins - UTEP
Tony HIlls - Texas
Sam Baker - USC
Duane Brown - VT
Shannon Boatman -FSU

I think Baker may be a great LT, not the best run blocker but then again the Lt's first job is to protect the QB's blind side (granted hes not a lefty).. with that said there are other more complete OT's that will dominate the first round, I think we have a legit shot at him with our pick

Just not a fan of Gosder.

Tony Hills and Duane Brown to me right now seem decent later round picks, but I have only seen a couple games and I wasn't really focused on either of them all that much.

the others i couldn't really tell you much about at this point.

Guys like Chris Williams may be available with our pick, and we should really take a good look at him.

Jakey
01-04-2008, 05:55 PM
Ryan Clady - Jeff Otah - Chris Williams...are my favourite OT prospects, they will all likely be 1st rounders

Mr. Stiller
01-04-2008, 06:06 PM
Rumor Watch:

Per Jim Wexall a high offseason priority will be to sign Starks and Faneca.. Very hardcore chase as well. His source says it's 50/50 each guy to sign.

Hines
01-04-2008, 06:07 PM
Rumor Watch:

Per Jim Wexall a high offseason priority will be to sign Starks and Faneca.. Very hardcore chase as well. His source says it's 50/50 each guy to sign.

So we have a shot at both?

Jakey
01-04-2008, 06:09 PM
I think Max Starks is just as worthy as Faneca...what do you guys think we should do???

steel man
01-04-2008, 06:12 PM
if we do then that will change the whole draft...we still need a replacement for Faneca but would not have to draft one for a couple years. Starks is still young ao he would last a few more years before we would have to draft to take his place.

steel man
01-04-2008, 06:15 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/news/story?id=3177330

just some reading for you guys

steel man
01-04-2008, 06:17 PM
if Starks comes back from his knee surgery in good shape then i say sign them just dont sign Faneca to a super long deal for a lot of cash because he is getting older

steel man
01-04-2008, 06:21 PM
what do you guys think of drafting a center, no one has talked about it and i know it is hard for a rookie to start right away but he prob would do just as good?

Hines
01-04-2008, 06:22 PM
A center would be good, but I have read that we might move Simmons to center.

steel man
01-04-2008, 06:25 PM
who would be better at C Chris Kemoeatu , Kendall Simmons or Darnell Stapleton or could any of them play C and be good at it?

steel man
01-04-2008, 06:26 PM
A center would be good, but I have read that we might move Simmons to center.

i guess you answered my question. http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

Hines
01-04-2008, 06:27 PM
I think Simmons is the better guard.

I could see our next years line being

LT: Starks or draft pick
LG: Kemo
C: Simmons
RG: Colon
RT: FA/Draft pick, hell maybe even Essex

steel man
01-04-2008, 08:54 PM
now on to WR. i wanted this guy in the 1st but i figured that everyone would say that we had bigger needs. the guy is Adorius Bowman, then in 2-3 more years get thi kid out of Texas Tech and we would be set at WR, but what do you guys think of :

Adorius Bowman - O St.
DJ Hall - Ala
Marcus Monk - Ark
Paul Hubbard - Wis
and one of my best steal picks
Evan Moore - Stanford

all are tall WR which i think we need and we have Holmes as our speed guy and Hines can move in to the slot. When Ben had Plex he went to him all the time and look what Plex has done for Eli and Ben has got better so could you imagine what he and Plex would be doing if they were still together.

Hines
01-04-2008, 09:15 PM
now on to WR. i wanted this guy in the 1st but i figured that everyone would say that we had bigger needs. the guy is Adorius Bowman, then in 2-3 more years get thi kid out of Texas Tech and we would be set at WR, but what do you guys think of :

Adorius Bowman - O St.
DJ Hall - Ala
Marcus Monk - Ark
Paul Hubbard - Wis
and one of my best steal picks
Evan Moore - Stanford

all are tall WR which i think we need and we have Holmes as our speed guy and Hines can move in to the slot. When Ben had Plex he went to him all the time and look what Plex has done for Eli and Ben has got better so could you imagine what he and Plex would be doing if they were still together.


Adarius Bowman is a great reciever. Big, fast, has great hands. In the Plex mode. Plays in the slot a lot at OK State. I wouldnt mind him here with our first pick. DJ Hall is a good reciever. He gets taken out of games on occasion, but he is a really good prospect. I dont like Monk at all as I dont think he has enough speed to stick at WR, would be a TE probably. Havent seen much of Hubbard or Moore so I cant comment on them.

mikehop05
01-04-2008, 10:02 PM
Adarius Bowman is a great reciever. Big, fast, has great hands. In the Plex mode. Plays in the slot a lot at OK State. I wouldnt mind him here with our first pick. DJ Hall is a good reciever. He gets taken out of games on occasion, but he is a really good prospect. I dont like Monk at all as I dont think he has enough speed to stick at WR, would be a TE probably. Havent seen much of Hubbard or Moore so I cant comment on them.

/agree, <3 bowman and also kelley

Hines
01-04-2008, 10:11 PM
A player I would spend a second on is Cornelius Ingram from Florida. He originally is a tight end, but he has the size and speed to be a young Plex, which of whom I compare him too.

steel man
01-04-2008, 10:45 PM
RB/FB - my favorite player is at this position Owen Schmitt from WVU. i know some says that we need a short yardage back and then others say Davenport and Co. are good enough, but Kreider is older and is JUST A BLOCKER where Schmitt can be the Triple Header Monster and Monster he is, he can run, catch, and block. IMO he is worth a good pick.
others:

Cory Boyd-SC
Yvenson Bernard -OR St.
Alley Broussard - Missouri Southern
Matt Forte-Tulane
Allen Patrick-OU
Jacob Hester-LSU

mikehop05
01-04-2008, 10:48 PM
A player I would spend a second on is Cornelius Ingram from Florida. He originally is a tight end, but he has the size and speed to be a young Plex, which of whom I compare him too.

i wouldn't... i dont see him being the threat that bowman or kelley would be, if he is there in the 3rd i wouldn't mind it but right now unless a player can be a bowman-like threat id rather not grab them in the top 2 rounds where both lines and CB's are needed imo

steel man
01-04-2008, 11:00 PM
the way i look at it is the ones that say he is not worth a higher pick then they do not know how much a good FB helps the running game. as a former all-state and college running back my FB was very important to opening holes for me and down field after you past the 1st tier into the 2nd level and they are in front blocking, it is worth as much as any position on the field. if he opens holes that others would not for Parker then thats a home run for us so out of all the teams in the NFL we need a great FB more than any to open holes for the fastest RB in the NFL and he is use to blocking for faster RB's. plus if he can catch out of the back field then thats another option for Ben that we don't have right know and not to mention his breaking face masks when blocking. when he breaks Steelers face masks i will be the 1st to over pay on EBAY for one, if signed then i would pay thousands for it lol. so all in all he is worth as high as any pick whether it is picking up the blitz to protect Ben that the OL that we draft that we thought was so important missed to having him in the back field to run a 4th and 1 in the Patriots game instead of being scared to and running a WR reverse, even if you say they were trying to catch them off guard but if you had someone back there that you KNOW can get a yard then you would have ran the ball up the gut. so IMO YES he is worth a HIGHER pick

mikehop05
01-04-2008, 11:21 PM
the way i look at it is the ones that say he is not worth a higher pick then they do not know how much a good FB helps the running game. as a former all-state and college running back my FB was very important to opening holes for me and down field after you past the 1st tier into the 2nd level and they are in front blocking, it is worth as much as any position on the field. if he opens holes that others would not for Parker then thats a home run for us so out of all the teams in the NFL we need a great FB more than any to open holes for the fastest RB in the NFL and he is use to blocking for faster RB's. plus if he can catch out of the back field then thats another option for Ben that we don't have right know and not to mention his breaking face masks when blocking. when he breaks Steelers face masks i will be the 1st to over pay on EBAY for one, if signed then i would pay thousands for it lol. so all in all he is worth as high as any pick whether it is picking up the blitz to protect Ben that the OL that we draft that we thought was so important missed to having him in the back field to run a 4th and 1 in the Patriots game instead of being scared to and running a WR reverse, even if you say they were trying to catch them off guard but if you had someone back there that you KNOW can get a yard then you would have ran the ball up the gut. so IMO YES he is worth a HIGHER pick

the thing is, is i watch the steeler games and i see carey davis make great kick out blocks, and other good lead blocks, im not doubting what schmitt brings to the table but the fact of the matter is that davis gets it done right now so unless we can get him in the 4th id rather pass

mikehop05
01-04-2008, 11:22 PM
I think Max Starks is just as worthy as Faneca...what do you guys think we should do???

lately ive been leaning on the "rather sign starks than faneca" side

red has been getting outplayed

Hines
01-04-2008, 11:23 PM
Its official, Devin Thomas will declare. That is my second round pick.

mikehop05
01-04-2008, 11:36 PM
Its official, Devin Thomas will declare. That is my second round pick.

yup. hopefully he isnt a ***** like former MS receivers...

mikehop05
01-05-2008, 12:20 AM
thoughts on the ohio state tackle boone?

i think hes declaring after the game monday

Mr. Stiller
01-05-2008, 12:24 AM
thoughts on the ohio state tackle boone?

i think hes declaring after the game monday

i for one am not a fan. I know 1 or 2 guys from the Steelers that aren't impressed with him.

Mr. Stiller
01-05-2008, 12:27 AM
A center would be good, but I have read that we might move Simmons to center.

Some suggested if Faneca were to come back.... that we Move him to Center.. Colon to battle Kemo for LG and Simmons at RG.

To Me, I think we can get John Greco round 3 and he could start as RT rookie season.

Starks ~ Kemo/Colon ~ Faneca ~ Simmons ~ Otah/Greco

TheWood56
01-05-2008, 05:44 AM
I posted this in a new thread, but just realised that we actually have a discussion thread about the offseason, free agency and the draft, so I thought I may aswell post this in here since this is where all the talk is. Anyways, here's my post, tell me what you think:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://pit.scout.com/2/717046.html

This is going off of an article I read (above), which means we make an effort to re-sign Faneca and Starks and we succeed in doing so. So here we go, my hopeful Steelers o-line for next season:

LT: Max Starks
LG: Kendall Simmons
C: Alan Faneca
RG: Chris Kemoeatu
RT: Willie Colon

What do you think?

Starks has played well at LT in limited action and this may be his true position considering he was a LT in college and he is left handed. Also, with Smith and his back problems now, you don't know if he's going to be able to return 100% and he only has 1 year left on his contract here anyways.

Shifting Simmons to LG may improve his play as a whole. With Simmons being more athletic and being good on the move and pulling, this may ultimately be his true position considering the LG in our scheme has to pull occassionally and generally has to be the more athletic guard of the two.

With Faneca at C, there's a very good chance this move may very well improve our o-line play as a whole. I made this move keeping in mind what Zierlein said, that being he thinks Faneca's very smart and that he could see Faneca ending his career as a C in this league. I personally think he could make for a great C and could improve our o-line play as a whole. IMO, this would be a very good thing for our o-line.

Kemoeatu finally finds himself in the starting lineup. He's a big road grader that will pave the way for the running game on the right side of the line. With some fine tuning and some starting experience, he could be a force to be reckoned with at RG. Also, IMO, he's a better fit on the right side then he is on the left, which is why he's the RG and Simmons the LG.

Colon has shown a fair bit of potential at RT. People say he's better suited inside at guard, and though that may possibly be true, he's shown he can handle the RT position and with this only being his 1st season starting, he still has a heap of time to grow and improve as a player. I think making him make the transition inside to guard would only prolong his development, so keeping him at RT where he has shown potential to be a really good player is the best thing to do IMO, and I think with Colon entering his 2nd he's only going to get better and improve. I think he could potentially be a great RT in this league.

With our o-line being in place for the next few years, we will have much more flexibility come draft time, which is a very good thing.

Jakey
01-05-2008, 07:27 AM
Quick Mock v2

Round 1: Jeff Otah - OT - Pitt - 6'6" - 340 - 5.30

Round 2: Devin Thomas - WR - Michigan St - 6'2" - 215 - 4.50

Round 3: Brandon Flowers - CB - Virginia Tech - 5'10" - 190 - 4.47

Round 4: Kendall Langford - DE - Hampton - 6'6" - 295 - 4.97

Round 5: Darrius Reynaud - WR - West Virginia - 5'10" - 205 - 4.45

Round 6: Jameel McClain - ILB - Syracuse - 6'1" - 253 - 4.79


2008 Depth:

QB: Ben Roethlisberger ~ Charlie Batch ~ UDFA
FB: Carey Davis
RB: Willie Parker ~ Najeh Davenport ~ Gary Russel
TE: Heath Miller ~ Matt Spaeth
WR: Hines Ward ~ Devin Thomas
WR: Santonio Holmes ~ Nate Washington

LT: Max Starks ~ Marvel Smith ~ Trai Essex
LG: Alan Faneca ~ Chris Kemoeatu
C: Kendall Simmons ~ Sean Mahan
RG: Willie Colon ~ Chris Kemoeatu
RT: Jeff Otah ~ Marvel Smith ~ Trai Essex

...

RE: Brett Keisel ~ Ryan McBean
NT: Casey Hampton ~ Chris Hoke
LE: Aaron Smith ~ Kendall Langford

ROLB: James Harrison ~ Arnold Harrison
RILB: Lawrence Timmons ~ Larry Foote
LILB: James Farrior ~ Jameel McClain
LOLB: Lamarr Woodley ~ Jameel McClain

CB: Ike Taylor ~ Brandon Flowers ~ William ***
CB: Bryant McFadden ~ Deshea Townsend ~ William ***
FS: Anthony Smith ~ Ryan Clark/UDFA
SS: Troy Polamalu ~ Tyrone Carter

This would give us a beastly O-Line, with good depth...good young talent at WR...much beter D-Line depth...great, physical corners. The only weakspot would be depth at OLB...but that could be easily addressed. Tell me what you think, thanks guys.

TheWood56
01-05-2008, 08:04 AM
Jakey, depending on what happens with the o-line, Otah seems like a very good selection in the 1st round. Devin Thomas in the 2nd is great, nearly as great as Brandon Flowers in the 3rd. Drafting Flowers in the 3rd is just criminal. It's just plain stealing. I don't mind Kendall Langford in the 4th as it gives us some much needed d-line depth. You could also possibly look at Nick Hayden. I think Hayden would be a very good fit in our system. Hayden reminds me a whole lot of Aaron Smith, you know the guy that's currently injured and without him our defense suddenly looks pretty average? Yeah, that guy. Anyways, Darrius Reynaud in the 5th is a good selection as it gives us a good return man, and lets just say it's about time we got one. Last but not least is Jameel McClain. I think McClain in the 6th isn't a bad selection either, as he also gives us some much needed depth, but this time at the LB position.

Overall, really nice mock Jakey. I'd definately take it. :)

Jakey
01-05-2008, 08:09 AM
Thanks allot man...the only reason i think Flowers falls to the 3rd, is that facebook picture. I think that will raise some character issues...but i dont see Tomlin caring that much about that, so he would be a steal in the 3rd. I love Otah and Thomas...so that would be an awsome day 1 IMO :)

TheWood56
01-05-2008, 08:53 AM
No problem man. I really like your mock and could only hope for something like this come draft day. Drafting Otah, Thomas and Flowers in the 1st 3 rounds would just be awesome.

Anyways, once again, nice job. :)

Palmer26
01-05-2008, 09:13 AM
My mock 1.0

1. OT Sam Baker (6'5 305 USC)

I think we need to go OT in round 1. There are plenty of choices. Obviously Long and Clady will both be gone, as I believe Ottah will be too. So, look for Baker, Cherilus or Williams. I prefer Baker as I believe he is the best LT in the draft. While he may not be a strong run blocker his ability to pass protect Ben's blindside is crucial.

2. CB Tracy Porter (5'11 185 Indiana)

First and foremost I would take Owen Schmitt as this position, however, I think he will already be off the board. The value at this pick seems to be either at OT (which we took in Round 1), at CB or for a dynamic WR/KR guy. Whether or not Porter is still around or not I don't know, but there's also Trae Williams, Patrick Lee or Rodgerrs-Cromartie. This will give us a good young compliment of CBs for time to come.

3. DE Dre Moore (6'4 311 Maryland)

We need solid STRONG backups along our D-line, and maybe someone who might even be able to push Keisel as the starting 3-4 DE. I like both Moore and Kendall Langford out of Hampton. I think either would be a great pickup at this position.

4. WR Paul Hubbard (6'4 215 Wisconsin)

Hubbard's production is low since he played in a run-heavy Badgers offense. He has a big frame and should run a sub 4.5 forty time. I think we really need to add some height to our WR corps. Hubbard should be able to come in and push Wilson/Washington for either the #3 or #4 spot. I like WR in this round, so other guys would be Eddie Royal (although I think his draft stock will rise pushing him higher to a Day 1 pick), or All-American Jordy Nelson. Also a WR/KR could be a good option here, maybe Darius Reynaud.

5. OT/OG Jeremy Zuttah (6'4 295 Rutgers)

Either Zuttah or his teammate Pedro Sosa would be great pickups if they last this long. Zuttah started out as a LG and then moved to RT for the last couple of seasons. These 2 guys are the main reason on why Rutgers was near the Top of the NCAA the past 2 years in sacks allowed. Either would provide great depth along our O-line.

6. DE/OLB Brian Johnston (6'5 275 Gardner-Weber)

A guy I have read up alot on lately. He will be at the HULA Bowl. A big guy with great athleticism for his size. I'd like to pick up another pass rusher no matter what at this spot and I like Johnston's size. Another option would be Rudy Hardie. At 6'2 270, out of Hampton, he also has great athleticism.

7. To Atlanta in the Allen Rossum trade

I think this mock accomplishes alot. We get a starting LT and place great depth players at DE, WR and O-line. For of yous guys worried about our C position, next year keep your peeled to Alex Mack of CAL. He's the best C prospect I've seen since Nick Mangold. Definitely my #1 choice for our 2009 1st round pick.

TheWood56
01-05-2008, 09:43 AM
Palmer, I like picks 1, 2 and 3 and don't mind 6. I don't know much about Zuttah so I can't comment, and I'm not 100% sure about Hubbard. I need to watch a little more of him.

Hines
01-05-2008, 09:45 AM
When all juniors declare, I will have a mock done I promise.

Jakey
01-05-2008, 09:46 AM
I'm expecting a good one Hines ;)

TheWood56
01-05-2008, 09:47 AM
When all juniors declare, I will have a mock done I promise.

Sound good.

Jakey
01-05-2008, 09:53 AM
Palmer26... i like Porter, Moore, Zuttah and Johnston, i think they would all be good picks. But i personally like Chris Williams over Sam Baker...Baker is abit overrated in my opinion. Not a bad first mock tho'

Hines
01-05-2008, 09:57 AM
Palmer26... i like Porter, Moore, Zuttah and Johnston, i think they would all be good picks. But i personally like Chris Williams over Sam Baker...Baker is abit overrated in my opinion. Not a bad first mock tho'

I liked your mock. It has a player that I am really high on in the later rounds.

TheWood56
01-05-2008, 10:09 AM
Palmer26... i like Porter, Moore, Zuttah and Johnston, i think they would all be good picks. But i personally like Chris Williams over Sam Baker...Baker is abit overrated in my opinion. Not a bad first mock tho'

Baker's really good in pass protection, though I guess there are question marks about his run blocking ability and if he's just a finesse player.

Mr. Stiller
01-05-2008, 10:32 AM
I don't like Hubbard. He hasn't made it past the "Use Technique instead of track running" Stage yet and likely never will.

If you want height Marcus Monk should be around 4 and Tony Burks in 6/UDFA

Palmer26
01-05-2008, 11:00 AM
Thanks for the input folks. I'll continue to do my research and follow the Senior Bwol very closely, followed by the Combine.

Baker is definitely a polarizing prospect. He will have to fight that "finesse" tag that has been placed on him. Ultimately I think he will go to the Senior Bowl and dominate in pass protecting drills much like D'Brick did. He won't end up going that high, but it could kick another OT downwards like Ottah.

I need to see more of Chris Williams. Anyone know if he is confirmed to go to the Senior Bowl?

Jakey
01-05-2008, 11:04 AM
I thought i'd rank our players by each position...it might help when determing needs for a mock...or just if your interesed in my opinion :) ... (age)

QB

1 - Ben Roethlisberger (25)
2 - Charlie Batch (33)
3 - Brian St. Pierre (28)


FB

1 - Najeh Davenport (28)
2 - Carey Davis (26)
3 - Dan Kreider (30)


RB

1 - Willie Parker (27)
2 - Gary Russell (21)
3 - Najeh Davenport (28)


TE

1 - Heath Miller (25)
2 - Matt Spaeth (23)
3 - Jo Dekker (24)
4 - Jereme Tuman (31)


WR

1 - Santonio Holmes (23)
2 - Hines Ward (31)
3 - Nate Washington (24)
4 - Cedrick Wilson (29)
5 - Willie Reid (25)


OT

1 - Max Starks (25)
2 - Marvel Smith (29)
3 - Willie Colon (24)
4 - Trai Essex (25)
5 - Jason Capizzi (22)
6 - Jeremy Parquet (25)


OG

1 - Alan Faneca (31)
2 - Willie Colon (24)
3 - Kendall Simmons (28)
4 - Chris Kemoeatu (25)


C

1 - Any other player!!!
2 - Sean Mahan (27)
3 - Darnell Stapleton (22)

...

DE

1 - Aaron Smith (31)
2 - Brett Keisel (29)
3 - Ryan McBean (23)
4 - Travis Kirshcke (33)
5 - Nick Eason (27)


NT

1 - Casey Hampton (30)
2 - Chris Hoke (31)


OLB

1 - James Harrison (29)
2 - Lamarr Woodley (23)
3 - Clark Haggans (30)
4 - Arnold Harrison (25)
5 - Andre Frazier (25)
6 - Marquis Cooper (25)


ILB

1 - James Farrior (32)
2 - Lawrence Timmons (21)
3 - Larry Foote (27)
4 - Clint Kreiwaldt (31)


CB

1 - Ike Taylor (27)
2 - Bryant McFadden (26)
3 - Deshea Townsend (32)
4 - William *** (23)
5 - Anthony Madison (26)
6 - Grant Mason (24)
7 - Allen Rossum (32)


S

1 - Troy Polamalu (26)
2 - Anthony Smith (24)
3 - Tyrone Carter (31)
4 - Ryan Clark (28)

KR

1 - Allen Rossum (32)
2 - Willie Reid (25)
3 - Cedrick Wilson (29)
4 - Najeh Davenport (28)


P

Daniel Sepulveda (23)


K

Jeff Reed (28)

...

Practice Squad

1 - Dallas Baker (WR)
2 - Jeremy Bloom (KR)
3 - Matt Lentz (OT)
4 - Scott Paxon (NT)
5 - Mike Lorello (SS)
6 - Anthony Trucks (ILB)
7 - Justin Vincent (RB)
8 - Gerran Walker (WR)

TerribleEd
01-05-2008, 11:13 AM
My mock 1.0

1. OT Sam Baker (6'5 305 USC)

I think we need to go OT in round 1. There are plenty of choices. Obviously Long and Clady will both be gone, as I believe Ottah will be too. So, look for Baker, Cherilus or Williams. I prefer Baker as I believe he is the best LT in the draft. While he may not be a strong run blocker his ability to pass protect Ben's blindside is crucial.

2. CB Tracy Porter (5'11 185 Indiana)

First and foremost I would take Owen Schmitt as this position, however, I think he will already be off the board. The value at this pick seems to be either at OT (which we took in Round 1), at CB or for a dynamic WR/KR guy. Whether or not Porter is still around or not I don't know, but there's also Trae Williams, Patrick Lee or Rodgerrs-Cromartie. This will give us a good young compliment of CBs for time to come.

3. DE Dre Moore (6'4 311 Maryland)

We need solid STRONG backups along our D-line, and maybe someone who might even be able to push Keisel as the starting 3-4 DE. I like both Moore and Kendall Langford out of Hampton. I think either would be a great pickup at this position.

4. WR Paul Hubbard (6'4 215 Wisconsin)

Hubbard's production is low since he played in a run-heavy Badgers offense. He has a big frame and should run a sub 4.5 forty time. I think we really need to add some height to our WR corps. Hubbard should be able to come in and push Wilson/Washington for either the #3 or #4 spot. I like WR in this round, so other guys would be Eddie Royal (although I think his draft stock will rise pushing him higher to a Day 1 pick), or All-American Jordy Nelson. Also a WR/KR could be a good option here, maybe Darius Reynaud.

5. OT/OG Jeremy Zuttah (6'4 295 Rutgers)

Either Zuttah or his teammate Pedro Sosa would be great pickups if they last this long. Zuttah started out as a LG and then moved to RT for the last couple of seasons. These 2 guys are the main reason on why Rutgers was near the Top of the NCAA the past 2 years in sacks allowed. Either would provide great depth along our O-line.

6. DE/OLB Brian Johnston (6'5 275 Gardner-Weber)

A guy I have read up alot on lately. He will be at the HULA Bowl. A big guy with great athleticism for his size. I'd like to pick up another pass rusher no matter what at this spot and I like Johnston's size. Another option would be Rudy Hardie. At 6'2 270, out of Hampton, he also has great athleticism.

7. To Atlanta in the Allen Rossum trade

I think this mock accomplishes alot. We get a starting LT and place great depth players at DE, WR and O-line. For of yous guys worried about our C position, next year keep your peeled to Alex Mack of CAL. He's the best C prospect I've seen since Nick Mangold. Definitely my #1 choice for our 2009 1st round pick.

This is a GREAT Steeler mock. I can't see Dre Moore lasting until late 3rd round, though.

As far as Sam Baker goes, I don't understand why his stock has dropped so much. I think it's more a case of other people like Clady and Otah moving up in the ranks than anything. He is a natural left tackle and would be a good fit. Whether he will be better than Chris Williams though is the question as he too is a natural left tackle and probably underrated himself.

Do you really think Owen Schmidt will be drafted in round 2? I don't see it. I really like Schmidt and would be happy to see him as a Steeler, but I also really like Peyton Hillis because he is a complete fullback with better athleticism and likely bulk up a few lbs to 245 or 250 (his blocking will only get better).

Jakey
01-05-2008, 11:18 AM
I keep seeing ppl wanting us to draft a FB...although i like Schmitt and Hillis, Najeh Davenport was a top-rated FB coming out of college, so i think it would be better to have Gary Russell as the number 2 RB, and have Najeh as a beastly FB. He definately has the size and speed, he can run, and he is a great reciever out of the backfield. I think that would be the ideal situation for next season.

Hines
01-05-2008, 11:22 AM
I would look at tackles Jordan Gross from Carolina and Sean Locklear from Seattle. They are young, and could be inexpensive and give us a good RT to form with Starks on the left side.

Mr. Stiller
01-05-2008, 12:02 PM
I keep seeing ppl wanting us to draft a FB...although i like Schmitt and Hillis, Najeh Davenport was a top-rated FB coming out of college, so i think it would be better to have Gary Russell as the number 2 RB, and have Najeh as a beastly FB. He definately has the size and speed, he can run, and he is a great reciever out of the backfield. I think that would be the ideal situation for next season.

Najeh Davenport was a top rated FB because he was a RB playing fullback. Like Brian Leonard of Rutgers and possibly Peyton Hillis of Arkansas.

Najeh was the #1 RB.. until injuries slid him down the chart to the likes of Clinton Portis, Frank Gore, Edgerrin James.

The only way he could be an everydown player or close to it was to move to fullback. He did, but he wasn't a "True FB" or someone I'd trust to be a physical open the hole like FB.

mikehop05
01-05-2008, 12:10 PM
I would look at tackles Jordan Gross from Carolina and Sean Locklear from Seattle. They are young, and could be inexpensive and give us a good RT to form with Starks on the left side.

i think locklear will command some bigtime $, about the same as starks

Jakey
01-05-2008, 12:17 PM
Najeh Davenport was a top rated FB because he was a RB playing fullback. Like Brian Leonard of Rutgers and possibly Peyton Hillis of Arkansas.

Najeh was the #1 RB.. until injuries slid him down the chart to the likes of Clinton Portis, Frank Gore, Edgerrin James.

The only way he could be an everydown player or close to it was to move to fullback. He did, but he wasn't a "True FB" or someone I'd trust to be a physical open the hole like FB.

Do you not think he could do as good as a job as Carey Davis?

mikehop05
01-05-2008, 12:49 PM
Do you not think he could do as good as a job as Carey Davis?

i dont think so, davis has done a solid job for us

Palmer26
01-05-2008, 02:41 PM
This is a GREAT Steeler mock. I can't see Dre Moore lasting until late 3rd round, though.

As far as Sam Baker goes, I don't understand why his stock has dropped so much. I think it's more a case of other people like Clady and Otah moving up in the ranks than anything. He is a natural left tackle and would be a good fit. Whether he will be better than Chris Williams though is the question as he too is a natural left tackle and probably underrated himself.

Do you really think Owen Schmidt will be drafted in round 2? I don't see it. I really like Schmidt and would be happy to see him as a Steeler, but I also really like Peyton Hillis because he is a complete fullback with better athleticism and likely bulk up a few lbs to 245 or 250 (his blocking will only get better).

IMO, Owen Schmitt will be as big of a star as a FB in the NFL can be. He is by far the best lead blocker in the NCAA. He is a punishing blocker. He also can run the ball with speed (as we saw in the Fiesta bowl) and has great hands out of the backfield, so he is a versatile guy.

Besides his on the field play, Schmitt also has top notch intangibles and a great character. He LOVES to play football and he LOVES to hit people. He is also a ntural born leader.

I think his precense on the field and in the locker room would very much benefit the Steelers. Think of Lambert as a FB. But yes, I don't expect him to be around when we pick in the 2nd round pick. I think he will impress alot of people at the Senior Bowl and Combine. Management will fall in love with him at his interviews.

As for Hillis, he reminds me more of a Chris Cooley type player.

Jakey
01-05-2008, 04:30 PM
man, you love Schmitt!

hey...you aren't Owen Scmitt are you??? ;)

TerribleEd
01-05-2008, 04:50 PM
Dude, I meant the opposite. I don't think Owen Schmidt will go as HIGH as Rd 2. Fullbacks rarely do. I know your going to say he's an exception, but really, even by getting selecting in Rd 3 he will out-do where he's expected to go. Scott Wright has him as a mid-rounder, though he might slip into day one if a team wants to make sure they beat any competitors to the punch.

TerribleEd
01-05-2008, 04:57 PM
And moving Najeh to fullback would work about as well as it did when the Steelers tried to do so with Tim Worley, LOL

Najeh is a RB/FB tweener AT BEST and doesn't fit the part of an NFL fullback, IMO. Maybe he played FB at Miami, but they don't really play the power running game, do they? At the U, a FB is simply looked upon as another offensive weapon on offense (i.e. they want to get the ball in his hands via hand offs and receptions).

mikehop05
01-05-2008, 05:16 PM
Dude, I meant the opposite. I don't think Owen Schmidt will go as HIGH as Rd 2. Fullbacks rarely do. I know your going to say he's an exception, but really, even by getting selecting in Rd 3 he will out-do where he's expected to go. Scott Wright has him as a mid-rounder, though he might slip into day one if a team wants to make sure they beat any competitors to the punch.

mike alstott, 2nd round pick

mikehop05
01-05-2008, 05:17 PM
And moving Najeh to fullback would work about as well as it did when the Steelers tried to do so with Tim Worley, LOL

Najeh is a RB/FB tweener AT BEST and doesn't fit the part of an NFL fullback, IMO. Maybe he played FB at Miami, but they don't really play the power running game, do they? At the U, a FB is simply looked upon as another offensive weapon on offense (i.e. they want to get the ball in his hands via hand offs and receptions).

i agree, and ive always felt that najeh was kind of soft, especially for his size

SteelCityNightmare
01-06-2008, 12:09 AM
where does the early exit from the playoffs put the steelers in the draft? does it move them up into the early 20s?

mikehop05
01-06-2008, 12:10 AM
where does the early exit from the playoffs put the steelers in the draft? does it move them up into the early 20s?

24 i think

Hines
01-06-2008, 12:11 AM
Hell, I am thinking about cutting Davenport. He is so soft. I am tired of soft pussies. I want some big, mean mother ******* on our team.

skarocksoi
01-06-2008, 07:58 AM
Hell, I am thinking about cutting Davenport. He is so soft. I am tired of soft pussies. I want some big, mean mother ******* on our team.

You keep saying that, but you gotta be careful about getting guys like that. Otherwise we end up like Baltimore. A bunch of tough guys who get out of control and do stupid things instead of playing smart and doing what they are supposed to. I like guys with a bit of a swagger and attitude that wont get pushed around, but I dont want a bunch of cocky guys who think they are gonna win. I like guys like Keisel and Harrison who are mean SOB's yet know what it takes to make it in the league.

A guy like Owen Schmitt is a good example. He's tough, and borderline crazy, but knows how to work hard. Im not saying we should draft him, but he's a good example.

The last thing Tomlin is gonna want to draft is a bunch of cocky loudmouths who get out of control.

Palmer26
01-06-2008, 08:37 AM
man, you love Schmitt!

hey...you aren't Owen Scmitt are you??? ;)

haha, I wish I was! But for now I'll prefer just to watch him on Sunday.

To me, we are a good team. We don't have a whole lot of holes, personnel ways. We just have an execution problem sometimes. I really think there are only 3-4 position that are up for grabs next year. OT, OG, DE and FB.

Obviously we'll go OT in Round 1 (I hope), I think we can fill the OG spot which I expect to be vacated by Faneca with somebody on the roster. I think Round 3 is where we pick up our big DE.

That leaves Round 2. I really don't know where to go with this pick. I think you can really only go WR or CB here. CB is probably more a want, rather than a need. As for WR, I would prefer to find one in Free Agency, maybe a Bryant Johnston. First and foremost, I would love to get Owen Schmitt here, for reasons which I've listed in a previous post. I think he could step in and fulfill the roles of Carey Davis, Garry Russell, Dan Kreider and Verron Haynes. That's alot of roster spots to be saved.

I know Scott Wright only as him listed as a mid round pick, but I have to disagree with that assessment.

Mr. Stiller
01-06-2008, 10:56 AM
i dont think so, davis has done a solid job for us

Eh...

Watching the game last night, he seems more of a pest FB than a punishing FB.

On Najehs 2 TD dives last night, the first one a LB Blew up Carey to get to Najeh.. The 2nd dive, Davis did just enough for Najeh to squeeze by.

If they don't plan on throwing to him, running him or using him in the "Offensive Weapon" Capacity that they said in training camp, I'd rather us draft a Traditional or atleast better than Davis FB. Maybe not this year, but 2009 would be prime.

Anyways my 2009 Mock is up.

steelersfan27
01-06-2008, 10:57 AM
do we really need a FB in the second round? i know schmitt is a great player but do we really need him?

Mr. Stiller
01-06-2008, 11:01 AM
Steelers offseason.

We're a team without an identity. We have key pieces and we're not giving them the opportunity. Lets do something about it.

I think we need to maximize our draft picks this year. Trading down multiple times will allow us to do so. The talent level between late round 1 and mid/late round 2 isn't that big and adding 3 guys in that range may be better than 2. Trading a later round pick, like our original 3rd for 2 4ths, a 5th and a 7th will give us the opportunity to bring in a lot of tealnt. Is this easy to predict? No but watching the teams do it like NE, Jacksonville and the likes has got to say, sometimes Quantity and Quality can meet and work together.

A man I really admire for his ability to build a team (though I despise him for quitting them) is Bill Parcells. Now not everyone can be Bill, but he has an eye for talent and does not fall into "Intangibles" or stupid things of that nature, he finds his guys and he is one of the best personel people I've seen.

This is the Parcells Style draft in my opinion.

I'd like to see Free Agency result in:

The RFA's/ERFA's tendered (Trai Essex, Chris Kemoeatu, Greg Warren, Nate Washington, Andre Frazier, Arnold Harrison)
Ben Roethlisberger extended
Bryant McFadden resigned to between starter/Nickel money.

Sign as UFA's:

Travelle Wharton, LT, Carolina Panthers ~ Shouldn't command a lot of money as far as LT's go, more mobile than Starks, not amazing, but gets the job done, 2 year deal.
Randy Starks, RDE, Tennessee Titans ~ Replaces Kirschke


1) **** Trade. Brian Brohm falls to 24, and there the Falcons really can't help but trading up. The Falcons have an additional 2nd round and use their extra ammunition to get a franchise QB for a new coach/GM. They're willing to use a 2009 first, 2008 2nd and 3rd.. They're line of thinking is with Brohm, McFadden (Their first pick) and still a pick in round 2 for OL. They're line of thinking they'll have to spend a 1st rounder in 2009, and the 2009 Sr's look even more depressing than the 2008.

2a) Devin Thomas, WR, Michigan State ~ 6'3 215lbs 4.48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh5yJS7t_M8#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r2BkcEC0Nk&feature=related

1/4 of our offensive issues is the WR's. Hines speed is evaporating. Santonio Holmes can't do it all himself. Nate Washington is inconsistent. Cedrick Wilson is gone after next season. Willie Reid needs cut. Thomas will take a season as #3 and slide out to FL on 3 wide sets. He is what I define as "Big" WR. I don't like the Marcus Monks, Limas Sweeds, etc. I like Thomas. He's big, fast, strong, built and has all the tools to be an awesome NFL WR. With Wharton we can slide LT down this year.

Watch those Videos, Devin Thomas is #5. He's in the begginning a lot, then in the middle a bit. Watch how he can catch, bad passes with soft hands and great body control. Wathc his ability to snatch a pass that the defender has a break on, right from them. Watch how fast he cuts out of his break. He's a Football Player, not a track star.

Season stats: 79 receptions,1260 yards, 8 TDs, 7PR, 18 yards, 39 KR, 1135yards, 27 rushes for 177yards

2b) Oniel Cousins, OT/OG, Texas-El Paso ~ 6'4 306lbs 4.99

Oniel Cousins is a bit of a workout warrior, but Wex Likes him. I'll admit I'm not the best judge of OL talent, but here's his opinion..

As for Oniel Cousins, the CSTV network ran a UTEP game against SMU. They may show it again sometime. I wrote down these notes on RT #75:

-- big, tall, finesse(?).
-- smooth, very mobile, plays a bit high.
-- plays alert, good feet, may have LT in his future.
-- question strength.
-- with that frame, could add 40 pounds or so.
-- question competition.
-- some nasty, often made the heads of DBs and LBs jerk violently.

Bring him in to challenge for RT rookie season. Backup LT and Possible starter at RT.

3a) John Greco, OG/RT, Toledo ~ 6'5 320lbs 5.22

Greco could play about any Offensive line position except Center. He can challenge for RT immediately as a rookie, has a nasty handpunch and could even slide into guard if need be, or LT for injuries. Nasty demeanor. With this pick, we now have depth at the Tackle position, Wharton, Essex, Cousins and Greco. Essex will start as the main LT backup, Cousins/Greco will battle for RT and Cousins will get some work with the 3rd team LT.

3b) **** Trade Denver see's Jamaal Charles falling and trades up. They trade two 4ths a 5th and 7th. After snagging a LT, a WR, and a RB, their offense is ready to roll.

4a) Eddie Royal, WR/KR/PR, Virginia Tech ~ 5'10 185lbs 4.34

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rloo1rd4Bl4

To me, the Willie Reid project is over. I really had high hopes and tried to give him a chance, he doesn't have it. Royal has "It". He's a phenomenal KR/PR. He may even develop into a stretch the field type WR with some coaching. Royal never really had the opportunity to have consistency at the QB position. But his Return ability gets him drafted here, his upside gives promise as a possible future #3/#4 WR if he develops.

Season Stats: 33 receptions, 496yards, 4 TD, 31 PR, 455yds, 2 TD, 14 KR, 316yards, 8rushes for 116yards

4b) Jonathon Goff, ILB, Vanderbilt ~ 6'2 240lbs 4.67

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0ipiDZ8ZIlc&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hV2DBTEP4kw

Goff is a underrated LB. Kind of like Anthony Waters last year, without the injury. He has good size, speed, and is good against the run. The way I see it, we could do far worse here. If he's a career backup, so be it, but I think he could develop into a solid buck. Earlier this season he was being touted as a 1st maybe even second rounder. His stock has fallen for having somewhat of an average season and Vanderbilts record.

The Youtube is of his 2006 supposedly. He played in the SEC. He can rush the passer, play zone.. sifts through traffic in the run game and is a bit lanky to keep lineman out of his body. With a little added lower body bulk he could be a monster. It's not like he was behind a top defensive line at Vandy or Good Dt's to keep the OL off of him. He has that explosion. He's not cocky, he gets pumped up and he's a leader on and off the field. Play him behind Farrior a year and see if you think it's still a top priority in 2009.

Past season stats: 88 Tackles, 6.5 TFL's, 3 sacks, 5 passes defended, 6 QB hurries, 2 Ints. That sounds like a Farrior year.

4c) Ahtyba Rubin, NT, Iowa State ~ 6'2 325lbs 5.15

Hampton is getting older, Hoke was really never a runstopping presence. This kid is. He constantly occupies double teams, and still makes plays on the Running game. Not a threat to rush the passer, as of now, his technique is a bit raw, but I'm interested in seeing what John Mitchell can do with him. Physical squat presence that seems to have a natural understanding of leverage and some nastiness to his game. Played DT and OG at JUCO and is now working at NG. Diamond in the rough me thinks.

Past Season: 33 Tackles, 4 TFL, 1.5 Sacks, 1 PD and 1 FF

5a) Jeremy Thompson, LOLB, Wake Forest ~ 6'5 262 4.75

Jeremy Thompson has explosion, size, power and played against some talented competition. With Haggans leaving we need a guy to give Woodley a breather on the weakside and he could definitely be that guy.

Past season: 40.5 tackles, 11 TFL's, 6.5 Sacks, 3 PDs, 2 FF's, 1 QBH

5b) Brandon McAnderson, RB, Kansas ~ 5'11 240lbs 4.58

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Tx1VdbuHb18

McAnderson is a blessing to all of those that cried "We need a new Bus" or "Dookie is not the SYB answer". I agree. I watched McAnderson twice this season. Both times I came away impressed. I never really had room for a pure Bulldozer RB and was going for more conventional all-in-one H-backs. McAnderson reminds me of Greg Jones. Watch the video, Watch at a minute in, as he's running to the sidelines, instead of going out, he bowls over a Texas A&M defender. Thats what we need, a physical runner. He has soft hands and hasn't had injury or fumbling issues. While not having a 3rd gear he has good initial explosion, a 2nd gear in the open field (Though not breakaway speed), he has good vision and cuts. He's what we need at RB. Parker, McAnderson and Russell should be promising.

6) Kellen Davis, TE, Michigan State ~ 6'5 255lbs 4.69

We need another receiving threat at TE. Spaeth is not a deep threat and is more of a blocker/Red zone receiver. Davis Can stretch the field a bit in the passing game and gives us that 3rd TE that Arians loves to utilize.

Past Season: 32 receptions, 513yards, 6TD's, 6 rushes for 43 yards, 4 Tackles, 2.5 TFL's, 2 Sacks, 2 QB hurries.

TE with Passrushing experience.

7) Andrew Bain, OG/C, Miami ~ 6'3 325 5.15

Bain is a very athletic Guard from Miami. He could be that "Big Guard" convert that Zierlein had such wet dreams about that he sent porn to all the major offices of the NFL. Darnell Stapleton is slated the #2 C, but with Faneca, Starks and possibly Marvel all leaving... Oniel Cousins, John Greco and Andrew Bain to the rescue. I think Bain will be the backup OG and Mahan the backup C, meanwhile they'll train him throughout the season with the scout team as Center.




After all that, we have 2 - 1st round picks in 2009, and likely 2 comp picks, probably a 3rd and 4th.

Just a glimpse of my first 3 picks...

1a) Ricky Sapp, ROLB, Clemson ~ 6'4 245lbs 4.58

Regardless of 3-4, 4-3 this kid is going to be special. He's lanky and I swear must have a 76"+ wingspan. My opinion of Harrison is that while a ferocious run stopper and tough pass rusher, he lacks the tools to be effective when a tackle gets into his body. His arms aren't long enough. I think that he's going to play ROLB next season, but I'm thinking he moves inside to finish his career. With his ferocious run stopping and ball stripping ability he would certainly be a huge upgrade over Larry "I can't remember how to tackle" Foote. Back to Sapp. He reminds me of a tad slower, but much bigger Dwight Freeney, except he's good against the run. With his lanky arms he can keep opposing blockers out of his body allowing him entrance to the backfield. He needs to add some lower and upperbody bulk, but with his frame he certainly has the ability to do it.

1b) Brandon Flowers, CB, Virginia Tech ~ 5'11 200lbs 4.43

With the "Facebook" pictures I think Flowers returns. I think Vontae Davis from Illinois will be the top CB Prospect next year, I think Flowers goes to us. He's the best big CB in college and the most physical. He's complete as far as Corners go. Great hands, great reads, support in the run game, with this pick we have a chance to really solidify our defense.

2) Victor "Macho" Harris, CB/FS, Virginia Tech ~ 6'0 205lbs 4.45

Victor is almost as physical as Flowers and has the size and speed to make a great centerfield Ballhawk or #2/#3 CB. With teams like the Bengals, Browns, Colts and Patriots, we could use 4 good cover CB's.

3a) Pannel Egboh, DE/DT, Stanford ~ 6'6 288lbs 4.82

Dont' make him add weight. Add him as the pass rushing 3-4 End.

3b) Jasper Brinkley, ILB, South Carilina ~ 6'2 258lbs 4.72

Looked like the perfect Buck prospect before his season ending injury



I know the 2008 draft is a little farfetched.. but if everyone else can do it... why can't we?

Dallas became the dominant 90's team because of the Herschel Walker trade.

Back to back trade years from San Diego resulting in them being one of the best young talented teams. Look at NE, they have about 15 picks a year and hit on a lot of them.

mikehop05
01-06-2008, 11:22 AM
i like the draft, it is a little farfetched and is not the sexiest draft in the world but it is solid and fills holes

Palmer26
01-06-2008, 11:44 AM
I think Alex Mack, a Center out of Cal, HAS to be priority in the 1st round next year.

Mr. Stiller
01-06-2008, 11:46 AM
I think Alex Mack, a Center out of Cal, HAS to be priority in the 1st round next year.

To add to that, he wanted to come out this year but received a 4th round grade.

Stapleton, Simmons will likely be the centers next year.. it's already been said (On the hush hush ;-) )

I think Bain could develop into a hell of a center, good size, speed, agility and very physical.

steelersfan27
01-06-2008, 03:16 PM
very solid draft. and i like the approach you took. i would love for this to happen.

Mr. Stiller
01-06-2008, 06:17 PM
Rumor Alert!!!:

Offseason rumors...

1) Both Ligashesky and his ST asst will be fired.

2) Dick LeBeau will retire

3) With a DC position open, Tomlin hires a man he's very familiar with and is heading into the offseason without a contract. This man has sent 32 Defenders to the probowl in his span as a DC, and in that time has the overall highest rated defense in the league of that span. That man? Monte Kiffin!

I may get my wish afterall. If this is true, then we could see a Titans like do-over of the team, cutting the heavy contracts of the defense, having 1-2 bad seasons if that and working in a 4-3 Tampa2 style scheme.

Kiffin would already have his Derrick Brooks and his strongside Passrusher. He's missing a WDE, a UT and playmaking MLB. Those aren't necessarily easily to find, but it can be done well in 1-2 years.

Hines
01-06-2008, 06:25 PM
Rumor Alert!!!:

Offseason rumors...

1) Both Ligashesky and his ST asst will be fired.

2) Dick LeBeau will retire

3) With a DC position open, Tomlin hires a man he's very familiar with and is heading into the offseason without a contract. This man has sent 32 Defenders to the probowl in his span as a DC, and in that time has the overall highest rated defense in the league of that span. That man? Monte Kiffin!

I may get my wish afterall. If this is true, then we could see a Titans like do-over of the team, cutting the heavy contracts of the defense, having 1-2 bad seasons if that and working in a 4-3 Tampa2 style scheme.

Kiffin would already have his Derrick Brooks and his strongside Passrusher. He's missing a WDE, a UT and playmaking MLB. Those aren't necessarily easily to find, but it can be done well in 1-2 years.


Thats all great, but where did you find this. I dont want Lebeau to leave. I will not be able to handle the Steelers having bad seasons by doing a make over.

Jakey
01-06-2008, 06:30 PM
Interesting stuff!!! what 'heavy contracts' do you think might be cut???

Also has any1 got any comments on the way Woodley played last night...i was blown away!

Hines
01-06-2008, 06:34 PM
I mean I am all for a change, but I would think it woudl be ideal to hire a younger cordinator. Why get rid of one just to regain another one? If we do indeed go to a 4-3, I would like Antwan Odam as a free agent from Tennessee. I would cut Foote, Keisel. I would put Smith at UT, Casey at DT, Woodley at DE, Odam at De. That leaves Harrison at SAM, Farrior at MIKE, and a draft pick or FA at WILL. I think Ike will benefit from this scheme really well, and increase his PBU numbers. *** and Townsend will work well in this. We can use Poly in the Bob Sanders role. I think Smith can play a great centerfield, deep saftey.

Hines
01-06-2008, 06:40 PM
DeMarrio Williams and Landon Johnson would be good WILLs IMO.

mikehop05
01-06-2008, 06:40 PM
right now the tampa 2 does not fit our style

we look like we have 2 dominant pass rushers with harrison and woodley

when we get smith back we will have the best 3 man d-line in football once again

with timmons hopefully replacing foote we will have an athletic presence in the interior

with an offseason to heal poly will be able to come back full force next season

anthony smith will hopefully be able to stop making dumb mistakes and win the FS spot next year and thus be able to knock some heads again

we really could have a more dominant D next year than this year with in sticking with the 3-4... mainly because of the one - two punch that is woodley and harrison

steelersfan27
01-06-2008, 06:54 PM
Rumor Alert!!!:

Offseason rumors...

1) Both Ligashesky and his ST asst will be fired.

2) Dick LeBeau will retire

3) With a DC position open, Tomlin hires a man he's very familiar with and is heading into the offseason without a contract. This man has sent 32 Defenders to the probowl in his span as a DC, and in that time has the overall highest rated defense in the league of that span. That man? Monte Kiffin!

I may get my wish afterall. If this is true, then we could see a Titans like do-over of the team, cutting the heavy contracts of the defense, having 1-2 bad seasons if that and working in a 4-3 Tampa2 style scheme.

Kiffin would already have his Derrick Brooks and his strongside Passrusher. He's missing a WDE, a UT and playmaking MLB. Those aren't necessarily easily to find, but it can be done well in 1-2 years.

where did you hear these rumors. im all for ligasheshky being fired but i want Lebeau to stay.

Jakey
01-06-2008, 06:55 PM
and a draft pick or FA at WILL.

erm...Lawrence Timmons?

Hines
01-06-2008, 06:59 PM
erm...Lawrence Timmons?

Yeah I realized that after I posted. I forgot about him.

Mr. Stiller
01-06-2008, 07:35 PM
Thats all great, but where did you find this. I dont want Lebeau to leave. I will not be able to handle the Steelers having bad seasons by doing a make over.

Sorry, I can't really say there Nips.. err Hines ;)

Interesting stuff!!! what 'heavy contracts' do you think might be cut???

Also has any1 got any comments on the way Woodley played last night...i was blown away!

I think I worded that poorly. I can see them weeding out the players that won't fit the new scheme and bringing in new guys. Who that might be? I have no clue as I don't work with them daily.

Woodley looked good, but honestly, his stats look better than he played. He gaffed on that MJD reception for a TD. As for his sacks, 1 he came in completely unblocked. Though his second one was impressive. He'd be the perfect SDE in a Tampa2.

I mean I am all for a change, but I would think it woudl be ideal to hire a younger cordinator. Why get rid of one just to regain another one? If we do indeed go to a 4-3, I would like Antwan Odam as a free agent from Tennessee. I would cut Foote, Keisel. I would put Smith at UT, Casey at DT, Woodley at DE, Odam at De. That leaves Harrison at SAM, Farrior at MIKE, and a draft pick or FA at WILL. I think Ike will benefit from this scheme really well, and increase his PBU numbers. *** and Townsend will work well in this. We can use Poly in the Bob Sanders role. I think Smith can play a great centerfield, deep saftey.

Why would it be ideal? I think Kiffin could come in and implement his defense. If he retires in 5-10 years we could still find a Tampa2 Disciple somewhere. Just like Tomlin. With Pittsburgh, Tampa, Indy, Buffalo, Minnesota and Chicago. There's plenty of guys out there.

Hell they could look to bring in Ron Rivera, this is just a rumor.

We'd need to get a veteran WDE from FA. I don't know if that guy is Odom. I was thinking Mike Rucker from Carolina.

Foote I wouldn't cut, He played SAM at Michigan and is pretty much playing for Backup money anyways. Harrison would start ahead of him.

Keisel I think would make a solid Interior passrusher or Backup SDE, but I think he makes too much to be a backup and I don't think I'd be sad to see him go.

I don't know why everyone wants to put Aaron Smith at UT. He's not a passrusher or penetrator. I put Hoke at UT and Hampton+Smith at NT. Hampton on Running downs and Smith on passing downs. Why? Because Smith is not making that much money. His age, coupled with his price, allows him to stay as a backup at NT, playing passing downs to give Hampton a breather. That will keep both Fresh as they are aging. For those that are going to flip at me, The UT is the interior pass rusher/penetrator... Aaron Smith, though I love him, is a pocket collapser, run stopping and tie up the blockers DT. Hoke is a penetrating undertackle in ever sense, even when he plays a 0 tech, he's in the backfield.

Agree with the DE's (Is Odom a UFA? I missed that).

Harrison-> Foote at SLB.
Farrior at MLB
as for Will, did you forget Timmons? The guy is a Derrick Brooks clone.

The issue at LB will be depth..

At Will we could either draft Wesley Woodard/Jordan Dizon in the 5th round or sign Brandon Chillar from the Rams.. I'm going with some experience.

At Mike, I could see Demorrio Williams from Minnesota, from what I've read he was a big Tomlin fan and almost won a starting job, but lost to Henderson because of Injuries.

As for the Secondary, I agree.

DeMarrio Williams and Landon Johnson would be good WILLs IMO.

Theres this kid, we took at #15 overall that was a prototypical Will in college and in the pros... Some Timmons. DeMorrio Williams plays MLB.

right now the tampa 2 does not fit our style

No it doesn't, because we run a 3-4 Zone Blitz, but with some FA work and a few drafts it could. If Tomlin feels like going a 4-3 Tampa2 route, it's his decision and I don't fault him, they're one of the best designed offenses in the league and he's most comfortable.

we look like we have 2 dominant pass rushers with harrison and woodley

Why couldn't they be equally effective in a 4-3? in a 4-3 Woodley is rushing every single down.. In a 3-4, he only rushes every so often. Personally I would prefer him rushing all the time.

As for Harrison, god love the guy, but I don't think he's a "Great" Passrusher. His arms and height are a huge disservice to a guy that could be a beast. His arms can't keep blockers out of his body. However the guy is a force against the run and as a blitzer, 2 key qualities of a Sam. He could even come in as a Standup DE on 3rd down.

when we get smith back we will have the best 3 man d-line in football once again

There's only 4 "3 Man DL's". Of those, the Patriots have to be the best. I'm sorry, I love Smith and Hampton, but Seymour is on par or better than Smith, Wilfork is entering his NT prime as Hampton is hitting his twilight, and Keisel isn't nearly as good as Ty Warren. I want to have a 4 Man DL because with it we can rush 4-5 guys and in doing so have atleast 3-4 Legit passrushers. We rush 4-5 guys now, we have 1 or 2 legit passrushers. With a Tampa2 we'll have 3-4 guys chasing a QB now instead of 1 or 2 guys chasing a QB while 3 try to push the pocket and contain blockers.

with timmons hopefully replacing foote we will have an athletic presence in the interior

Agreed, but Timmons could also be an all-pro force at weekside, he has the athleticism you'd beg for in a Tampa2 WILL, the presence in the run game and from his college tape you see he makes an excellent 4-3 Blitzer.

with an offseason to heal poly will be able to come back full force next season

This is true, but still, Troy could be as good in a Bob Sanders Role in a Tampa2. He has the speed, the tenacity and the hitting style to be a force at SS.

anthony smith will hopefully be able to stop making dumb mistakes and win the FS spot next year and thus be able to knock some heads again

Anthony Smith is the prototypical Tampa2 FS. Ballhawk skills and hands are great. Playing as the deep man he'd be allowed to hit more freely, and have more INT opportunities. His counterpart Tanard Jackson is playing FS in a Tampa2, and he was less instinctive and not nearly the hitter An Smith was in College. Look at Tanard in Tampa.

we really could have a more dominant D next year than this year with in sticking with the 3-4... mainly because of the one - two punch that is woodley and harrison

It's possible, but then again with the age of the defense (of the 11 starters likely next year, only 5 will be under the age of 30.)

We'll see Indy, NE, and San Diego next year. If there's ever a time to make a switch, it's next year with our brutal schedule. I'm a fan of Creating pressure and we can do it rushing 1 or 2 LBs anymore. Get me a 4 man DL that has 3 passrushers. That will cause some problems. Notice the 3 teams to really give NE Trouble? Indy, Philly, Baltimore, and NYG.

What do they have? 3 very talented passrushers up front. We lack that and as long as we draft for the traditional LeBeau ZBS, we won't.

Now don't take this as me hating the steelers, but I dont' see why a 4-3 is the end of the world..

Lest we forget..

Steel Curtain (Original Tampa2): 4 SB's in 12 years
3-4 Zone Blitz: 1 SB in 22 years.

Why was the Steel Curtain successful?

Fast tenacious LBs, coupled with a very successful 3 man rush (Joe Green, UT; LC Greenwood, DE; Dwight White, DE.. Ernie Holmes wasn't half bad either).

I'd rather have 3 passrushers everydown, than relying on scheme to try and trick the other team to guess where 1 pass rusher is coming from. Teams are figuring it out. Teams can dink and dunk on us all day.

mikehop05
01-06-2008, 07:56 PM
the steel curtain was successful because of the players in it, not the scheme, you could put those guys in any scheme and they would dominate

Mr. Stiller
01-06-2008, 08:05 PM
the steel curtain was successful because of the players in it, not the scheme, you could put those guys in any scheme and they would dominate

Very possible, but it was a very effective scheme.

I want something similar.. Why? Because yes we can stop the run as the best in the league but if anyone has noticed, it has become a pass heavy league... Teams have no problem abandoning the run.

We don't get enough pressure. To get any semblance of pass rush, we have to blitz and extra 2-3 guys, where as in a tampa2 we could realistically get an effective passrush from 4 guys allowing there to be 7 in coverage and 7 against the run.

Chucky
01-06-2008, 08:07 PM
Why would monte leave tampa for Pittsburgh, is there any substance to that, or are u just hoping

Hines
01-06-2008, 08:09 PM
Agree with the DE's (Is Odom a UFA? I missed that).

Harrison-> Foote at SLB.
Farrior at MLB
as for Will, did you forget Timmons? The guy is a Derrick Brooks clone.

The issue at LB will be depth..

At Will we could either draft Wesley Woodard/Jordan Dizon in the 5th round or sign Brandon Chillar from the Rams.. I'm going with some experience.

At Mike, I could see Demorrio Williams from Minnesota, from what I've read he was a big Tomlin fan and almost won a starting job, but lost to Henderson because of Injuries.

As for the Secondary, I agree.



Theres this kid, we took at #15 overall that was a prototypical Will in college and in the pros... Some Timmons. DeMorrio Williams plays MLB.


Yeah I forgot about Timmons, I think he would be a beast. Odom is a free agent. You go to draft daddy and it says he is. I would like him even if we stick to a 3-4 as he can rush the passer well.

Mr. Stiller
01-06-2008, 08:25 PM
Why would monte leave tampa for Pittsburgh, is there any substance to that, or are u just hoping

Just rumors that I heard man.

I don't have a link thats going to say what I heard. Sorry.

It's just that it came from a pretty reliable source that this is a very very possible scenario.

I just heard that Tampa could very well not extend him and it's more likely that LeBeau will retire.

Neither is set in stone. It's not 100% going to happen, just that it's been talked about.

Hines
01-06-2008, 08:27 PM
If that Joe Burnett kid really did declare, I like him. Could return kicks, and he looks like a ball hawking playmaker. I would call him Ike Taylor with hands.

Mr. Stiller
01-06-2008, 09:03 PM
If that Joe Burnett kid really did declare, I like him. Could return kicks, and he looks like a ball hawking playmaker. I would call him Ike Taylor with hands.

Brandon Flowers declared. If we don't go for him as our #1 CB, and we pick some mid rounder, I'll cry. Or if we pick another CB and he's on the board, I'll cry harder.

Hines
01-06-2008, 09:10 PM
Brandon Flowers declared. If we don't go for him as our #1 CB, and we pick some mid rounder, I'll cry. Or if we pick another CB and he's on the board, I'll cry harder.

Well I am saying if Flowers is off the board. I like Flowers the most out of the draft.

Mr. Stiller
01-06-2008, 09:17 PM
Well I am saying if Flowers is off the board. I like Flowers the most out of the draft.

yeah he's amazing

Hines
01-06-2008, 09:27 PM
yeah he's amazing

Do you think we will go after him?

mikehop05
01-06-2008, 09:40 PM
say hes there when we pick in the first

someone wants to trade up and offers 2 2nds and a 3rd or a 1st next year

whatdo we do? discuss.

Hines
01-06-2008, 09:43 PM
Honestly, I would take the picks. Yes he is really physical, and I would love to bring him on the Steelers, but the picks will help put the pieces that we need on the Steelers. Get possibly four picks for our first would be great. I hope Atlanta does that because we know they are not going anywhere next year.

Mr. Stiller
01-07-2008, 01:56 AM
say hes there when we pick in the first

someone wants to trade up and offers 2 2nds and a 3rd or a 1st next year

whatdo we do? discuss.

If there is a player there that you fall in love with, you take him.

He's rated a 2nd-3rd right now, so odds are he could be had in the second, not to mention when Jenkins and possibly Talib leave.

Just like Timmons, Denver contacted us for him, but he was "Our Guy".

Frankly I think if Starks is our LT next year...

Grab Devin Thomas in round 1, Flowers in 2, Greco in 3, Goff in 4, Thompson in 5 and McAnderson in 6.

Mr. Stiller
01-07-2008, 01:58 AM
Honestly, I would take the picks. Yes he is really physical, and I would love to bring him on the Steelers, but the picks will help put the pieces that we need on the Steelers. Get possibly four picks for our first would be great. I hope Atlanta does that because we know they are not going anywhere next year.

Odds are if he's there and atlanta is willing to give up their 2 - 2nds and their 3rd..

We'd still likely be able to land..

2 - Devin Thomas, Brandon Flowers, Oniel Cousins

3 - John Greco, Eddie Royal

4 - Jon Goff

5 - Jeremy Thompson

6 - Brandon McAnderson

SteelCityNightmare
01-07-2008, 07:12 AM
Just rumors that I heard man.

I don't have a link thats going to say what I heard. Sorry.

It's just that it came from a pretty reliable source that this is a very very possible scenario.

I just heard that Tampa could very well not extend him and it's more likely that LeBeau will retire.

Neither is set in stone. It's not 100% going to happen, just that it's been talked about.

Although I would be all for that, I think a more likely scenario would be that he goes out to his son's team in Oakland, who is currently without a DC.

My suggestion is why not Ron Rivera? He is currently the LB coach at San Diego and was the one that helped orchestrate the great Bears defenses the past couple of seasons (this past year excluded). He was considered for the Steelers HC position, so if Lebeau is going to retire/leave, then why not consider him for the job?

TheWood56
01-07-2008, 08:02 AM
To add to that, he wanted to come out this year but received a 4th round grade.

Stapleton, Simmons will likely be the centers next year.. it's already been said (On the hush hush ;-) )

I think Bain could develop into a hell of a center, good size, speed, agility and very physical.

Don't know if you heard any different, but Jim Wexell has said that Simmons isn't in their plans as a future center, even though he was their game day backup center this entire season.

TheWood56
01-07-2008, 08:07 AM
On those rumors Stiller reported, don't know if he's got an inside scoop or something or has heard something earlier from another source, though if anyone's intereted, here's a link to those rumors:

http://depaoli.theinsideronpittsburghsports.com-a.googlepages.com/nflquickhits

Pretty interesting. :cool:

Jakey
01-07-2008, 08:25 AM
^ Like it...I hadnt really thought of Willie Colon at centre, but that might be a good idea aswell.

Mr. Stiller
01-07-2008, 10:12 AM
Although I would be all for that, I think a more likely scenario would be that he goes out to his son's team in Oakland, who is currently without a DC.

My suggestion is why not Ron Rivera? He is currently the LB coach at San Diego and was the one that helped orchestrate the great Bears defenses the past couple of seasons (this past year excluded). He was considered for the Steelers HC position, so if Lebeau is going to retire/leave, then why not consider him for the job?

1) $$$$ he'd likely command, wanting to be one of the top paid DC's in the league..

2) The threat that every year he could leave, thats why he wasn't resigned in chicago.

TheWood56..

Yeah I've been hearing it the last 3 weeks, i just wasn't allowed to say anything until the offseason :)

lastly,

We're likely to see this OL Next season.

Marvel Smith ~ Kendall Simmons ~ Alan Faneca ~ Willie Colon ~ Max Starks

terribletowel39
01-07-2008, 11:21 AM
whats the deal with that link and the side note?? where Willie Colon says he will ride or die for ben and then it says these are words you will never hear from Hines Ward?? whats that about?? do Hines and Ben not have a good relationship all of a sudden??

mikehop05
01-07-2008, 11:25 AM
whats the deal with that link and the side note?? where Willie Colon says he will ride or die for ben and then it says these are words you will never hear from Hines Ward?? whats that about?? do Hines and Ben not have a good relationship all of a sudden??

yeah what is that about?

also that article said nothing about re-signing faneca.

SteelCityNightmare
01-07-2008, 01:38 PM
1) $$$$ he'd likely command, wanting to be one of the top paid DC's in the league..

2) The threat that every year he could leave, thats why he wasn't resigned in chicago.

TheWood56..

Yeah I've been hearing it the last 3 weeks, i just wasn't allowed to say anything until the offseason :)

lastly,

We're likely to see this OL Next season.

Marvel Smith ~ Kendall Simmons ~ Alan Faneca ~ Willie Colon ~ Max Starks


this is true about the money thing, but isn't Kiffin getting up there in age? I believe he is 63. However, I like the idea of him coming here, but I am just tryin to play devil's adovcate.

Jakey
01-07-2008, 01:50 PM
What do you guys think about D.J Hall??? I think if he was still available in the 3rd, he would be a great pickup. Let me know.

Hines
01-07-2008, 02:29 PM
1) $$$$ he'd likely command, wanting to be one of the top paid DC's in the league..

2) The threat that every year he could leave, thats why he wasn't resigned in chicago.

TheWood56..

Yeah I've been hearing it the last 3 weeks, i just wasn't allowed to say anything until the offseason :)

lastly,

We're likely to see this OL Next season.

Marvel Smith ~ Kendall Simmons ~ Alan Faneca ~ Willie Colon ~ Max Starks

I thought we werent going to resign Faneca. Unless we franchise him that is.



What do you guys think about D.J Hall??? I think if he was still available in the 3rd, he would be a great pickup. Let me know.


I would rather have Thomas.

DeathbyStat
01-07-2008, 03:18 PM
Could be get Devin Thomas in the first and Philip Merling in the second?

mikehop05
01-07-2008, 03:53 PM
Could be get Devin Thomas in the first and Philip Merling in the second?

gotta wait till combine really to see how all the pieces will fall

but imo flowers / thomas / merling will all be available late first round and sometime into the 2nd... how far is yet to be determined

mikehop05
01-07-2008, 04:12 PM
is anyone else feeling pretty good about our line for next year?

Trai Essex at LT, Kemo at LG, Simmons at C, Colon at RG, Starks at RT (if we resign him)

I think that would be a very good line, IMO, pretty strong up the gut between kemo and colon...

Mahan would back up the 3 interior positions, Capazzi and possibly a rookie next year the outside two

steelersfan43
01-07-2008, 06:27 PM
I wish we could just make o line go away.. forever.

steelersfan27
01-08-2008, 02:41 PM
I kept my eye on a couple of players in the BCS national championship...

Beanie Wells is a beast. If he declares after next year we should go after him. Him and Willie would be unstoppable. Of course we need to sure up the o-line tho.

Craig Steltz is absolute garbage. He so slow. I mean i understand hes a white safety and white safeties are supposed make up for thier speed with their hard hits but he doesnt hit hard. at all. Beanie Wells burned him and Wells is slow.

Glenn Dorsey wasnt as impressive as i expected . He didnt "wreak havoc" in the backfield or anything like that. And when he did make a tackle he went nuts.

Ali Highsmith had an impressive game. Had some nice tackles and made a couple of plays. Looked solid.

Vernon Gholston owned LSU's RT. Hes a beast. simple as that. Hes going to be a great pro.

Chevis Jackson is a solid CB and was impressive in the pass game, but isnt very physical and doesnt help at all in the run game. He had a great pick and is a playmaker.

James Laurinitas didnt play that well to be honest. He was decent but nothing spectacular. OSU's run D didnt look very good. But one bad game doesnt mean anything. hes good.

Malcolm Jenkins got beat on a TD but a had a pick. Hes an outsanding corner and will be a great pro. I would love to see us get him.

terribletowel39
01-08-2008, 03:14 PM
okay i know he was in on like 4 defensive snaps and only one went to his side but come on, there is nothing about steltz that is garbage. he is a very well rounded safety. and the slow thing just isn't true either....Wells was going just about full speed when he passed up Steltz on that long run and Steltz still almost caught him from behind. he needed maybe another 20-25 yards and he would have caught him. and i've heard rumors that wells runs a 4.5 thats not slow.

also how does a DE OWN a RT without getting a sack?? and really only having one play that he was a factor?? for how hyped Gholston was/is, i would say that he got owned atleast moreso than the RT was.

Hines
01-08-2008, 03:48 PM
I kept my eye on a couple of players in the BCS national championship...

Beanie Wells is a beast. If he declares after next year we should go after him. Him and Willie would be unstoppable. Of course we need to sure up the o-line tho.

Craig Steltz is absolute garbage. He so slow. I mean i understand hes a white safety and white safeties are supposed make up for thier speed with their hard hits but he doesnt hit hard. at all. Beanie Wells burned him and Wells is slow.

Glenn Dorsey wasnt as impressive as i expected . He didnt "wreak havoc" in the backfield or anything like that. And when he did make a tackle he went nuts.

Ali Highsmith had an impressive game. Had some nice tackles and made a couple of plays. Looked solid.

Vernon Gholston owned LSU's RT. Hes a beast. simple as that. Hes going to be a great pro.

Chevis Jackson is a solid CB and was impressive in the pass game, but isnt very physical and doesnt help at all in the run game. He had a great pick and is a playmaker.

James Laurinitas didnt play that well to be honest. He was decent but nothing spectacular. OSU's run D didnt look very good. But one bad game doesnt mean anything. hes good.

Malcolm Jenkins got beat on a TD but a had a pick. Hes an outsanding corner and will be a great pro. I would love to see us get him.


Did you just call Beanie Wells slow?

steelersfan27
01-08-2008, 03:59 PM
also how does a DE OWN a RT without getting a sack?? and really only having one play that he was a factor?? for how hyped Gholston was/is, i would say that he got owned atleast moreso than the RT was.

he absoultuely beat the right tackle every time. they just did a bunch of quick passes. he got tons of pressure on the QB. trust me he is the real deal. he had 4 sacks against michigan and 2 of them were against Jake Long. those were the only sacks he gave up all year.

i recorded the national championship and watched it again. (watching certain players.)

steelersfan27
01-08-2008, 04:00 PM
Did you just call Beanie Wells slow?

ya hes actually fast for a big guy. im just used to seeing willie run. :)

skarocksoi
01-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Beanie Wells is a sure-fire number 1 pick when he comes out. Whenever that might be.

terribletowel39
01-08-2008, 05:05 PM
he absoultuely beat the right tackle every time. they just did a bunch of quick passes. he got tons of pressure on the QB. trust me he is the real deal. he had 4 sacks against michigan and 2 of them were against Jake Long. those were the only sacks he gave up all year.

i recorded the national championship and watched it again. (watching certain players.)
no i understand that he beat him a pretty good amount but he kept him away from the QB which is his job. he blocked him long enough so that he couldn't get a sack. he didn't own him. i understand he is the real deal in the mold of shawne merriman but he didn't own him.

its just some LSU pride coming out to defend my guy, even though i couldn't tell you the name of the RT to save my life. :)

steelersfan27
01-08-2008, 05:28 PM
no i understand that he beat him a pretty good amount but he kept him away from the QB which is his job. he blocked him long enough so that he couldn't get a sack. he didn't own him. i understand he is the real deal in the mold of shawne merriman but he didn't own him.

its just some LSU pride coming out to defend my guy, even though i couldn't tell you the name of the RT to save my life. :)

LSU fan? im a huge buckeye fan. very dissappointed last night. and i know the rigt tackle did his job but gholston beat him alot. o well.

terribletowel39
01-08-2008, 05:32 PM
LSU fan? im a huge buckeye fan. very dissappointed last night. and i know the rigt tackle did his job but gholston beat him alot. o well.
yes sir. born and raised in louisiana. i bleed black and gold, and then some purple thrown in there. haha

steelersfan27
01-08-2008, 05:53 PM
no i understand that he beat him a pretty good amount but he kept him away from the QB which is his job. he blocked him long enough so that he couldn't get a sack. he didn't own him. i understand he is the real deal in the mold of shawne merriman but he didn't own him.

its just some LSU pride coming out to defend my guy, even though i couldn't tell you the name of the RT to save my life. :)

LSU fan? im a huge buckeye fan. very dissappointed last night. and i know the rigt tackle did his job but gholston beat him alot. o well. i just cant take a loss.

terribletowel39
01-08-2008, 05:57 PM
if you look at my last post and your last post, i look like a genius. or really just a mind reader.

steelersfan27
01-08-2008, 05:59 PM
ya i accidentally posted that twice. how do u delete posts?
double post

terribletowel39
01-08-2008, 05:59 PM
with your mind........actually you just hit the edit button and type 'double post' or 'i'm special'.

Mr. Stiller
01-08-2008, 10:41 PM
LeBeau is not retiring and we're going to be a 3-4 for a while.

Hines
01-08-2008, 10:42 PM
LeBeau is not retiring and we're going to be a 3-4 for a while.

I kind of figured that. I think we should make a run at Pat Sims.

Mr. Stiller
01-08-2008, 10:44 PM
I kind of figured that. I think we should make a run at Pat Sims.

He was my 2009 #1 DT, but with his questions, some place say a 3rd round.

I heard Tim Jamison of Michigan is to declare.. he'd be the perfect WOLB to Woodley. They're the same player except Jamison is a tad taller and faster.

mikehop05
01-09-2008, 12:28 PM
i honestly wouldnt be upset if the steelers used 5 of their 6 picks on guys in the trenches, (O / D line)... bit of an exaggeration but smith and hampton are both getting old, keisel is playing out of position... then everyone knows our o-line mess... where next year we will have not much depth...

the other guy i want as a return guy, other than that i wouldn't mind all picks being unsexy line picks.

steelersfan27
01-09-2008, 02:51 PM
i hate it when people talk about if a draft is sexy. it doesnt matter at all.i would rather see al trenches than all cb/wr/rs/rb and 'sexy' picks.

mikehop05
01-09-2008, 03:42 PM
i hate it when people talk about if a draft is sexy. it doesnt matter at all.i would rather see al trenches than all cb/wr/rs/rb and 'sexy' picks.

yup and thats precisely what we need

though i wouldn't argue with a guy like mike jenkins or brandon flowers or adarius bowman

Hines
01-09-2008, 03:46 PM
Arinas and Lebeau are both staying next year.

terribletowel39
01-09-2008, 04:06 PM
Arinas and Lebeau are both staying next year.
did they do a press conference or something?? i would kind of be frustrated if that is the case. i don't like arians. ain't no way in hell that a steelers QB should be throwing the ball 49 times a game. its complete bull ****. and he should be fired automatically for calling a QB draw on 3rd and 7. period. i don't care if he has opened ben up. hooray who gives a ****. he is a bad play caller when he needs to produce something good. get him out.

steelersfan27
01-09-2008, 04:32 PM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08009/847735-66.stm

they will both be back in '08

terribletowel39
01-09-2008, 04:38 PM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08009/847735-66.stm

they will both be back in '08
bad move in my opinion.

Mr. Stiller
01-09-2008, 04:45 PM
did they do a press conference or something?? i would kind of be frustrated if that is the case. i don't like arians. ain't no way in hell that a steelers QB should be throwing the ball 49 times a game. its complete bull ****. and he should be fired automatically for calling a QB draw on 3rd and 7. period. i don't care if he has opened ben up. hooray who gives a ****. he is a bad play caller when he needs to produce something good. get him out.

I'll argue this later.

I got no sleep as I live next to the local firestation and last night was siren-crazy. After a Nap, I'm going to argue and potentially prove why I hope we keep Arians AND Zierlein.

skarocksoi
01-09-2008, 04:50 PM
I think Arians should be on thin ice this year and unless things change for the better, he should be a quick fire. It kinda suprised me that he is our OC at all considering Tomlins propensity for a physical running game and Arians love of multiple WR sets and spread out offense. I can easily see us dropping him in favor of someone else after next season if we have the same troubles on offense as we did this year.

terribletowel39
01-09-2008, 04:54 PM
you can't argue that anything i said is false. i don't think there are many steeler fans that want to see our QB throw it that many times and i believe every fan that even knows a bit about football was scratching his/her head when Arians called for that draw. so i don't really know what you could say. there isn't much of anything you could say that would change my mind about him. ben should be throwing the ball at most 25 times a game and we should learn how to substitue running backs in, with fresher legs. i am completely suprised willie made it as far as he did. maybe you do see something in him that i don't, but as of now i'm pretty sure you can't say too much to change my mind about the idea. good luck.

Hines
01-09-2008, 05:01 PM
I just hope the special teams coach gets fired. Other then that, I hope we keep them all.

mikehop05
01-09-2008, 05:25 PM
I just hope the special teams coach gets fired. Other then that, I hope we keep them all.

but honestly how much at fault is the ST guy?

honestly how much do they REALLY do on kickoff?

its the same for everyone really, kick the ball as high/deep as you can, stay in your lanes, and freaking tackle

its not his fault that we can't bring down the returners, he is not out there playing... we need some hungry guys on ST to go down there like madmen and just play physical football

terribletowel39
01-09-2008, 05:28 PM
i don't know if i believe that. if we were mediocre, okay i would believe that most of it is the players but we were horrible. KO coverage for both sides was just bad.

if it was the same for every team there wouldn't be a need for ST coaches. they do different things to get the job done. we have been obsolutely horrible on STs this year.

steelersfan27
01-09-2008, 05:35 PM
bad move in my opinion.


arians play calling has been questionable but he has helped the steelers tremendously this year. think about it.

-willie was leading rusher in the nfl 'til he broke his leg. and he did that with a bad line.

-ben has been great this year. he was selected to the pro bowl for the first time of his career(hopefully he will have many more.). He has had a great turnaround.

i think it was a good idea to bring him back. no, hes not the best but he has helped this year and i dont feel we would get a huge upgrade with anyone else that is out there.



and LeBeau's D is best in the NFL.

mikehop05
01-09-2008, 05:37 PM
i don't know if i believe that. if we were mediocre, okay i would believe that most of it is the players but we were horrible. KO coverage for both sides was just bad.

if it was the same for every team there wouldn't be a need for ST coaches. they do different things to get the job done. we have been obsolutely horrible on STs this year.

well our ST has been decent this year minus kick coverage... which i put the players at fault and not the ST coach

HOWEVER, i did notice that they seem not to have any "safties" on kick coverage, which tend to save long runs.. i got that honor (hah.)before.. and it really sucks, you kinda hang back and let the returned get a bunch of speed before you put your neck out there and whacked... but it saves td's... and i didnt see any of our players hanging back

terribletowel39
01-09-2008, 05:45 PM
arians play calling has been questionable but he has helped the steelers tremendously this year. think about it.

-willie was leading rusher in the nfl 'til he broke his leg. and he did that with a bad line.

-ben has been great this year. he was selected to the pro bowl for the first time of his career(hopefully he will have many more.). He has had a great turnaround.

i think it was a good idea to bring him back. no, hes not the best but he has helped this year and i dont feel we would get a huge upgrade with anyone else that is out there.



and LeBeau's D is best in the NFL.
yea ben has had a great year, but in my opinion he has thrown the ball too much. and willie had a lot more carries than every body else. the constant running up the middle when we had no push. not many outside runs, no screens to willie. get the fool in space, he is the fastest guy on our team and one of the fastest in the league. why not?? but no 7 our of 8 times he would just hit the middle and hope to squeeze through a hole. back to ben, i think any QB would have had there best year in a four year career this year he almost doubled his pass attempts didn't he from his first two years?? he threw more last year but thats because we were playing behind a lot. hell he completed four less this year than he attempted in the super bowl season. does that say anything??

steelersfan27
01-09-2008, 05:50 PM
yea ben has had a great year, but in my opinion he has thrown the ball too much. and willie had a lot more carries than every body else. the constant running up the middle when we had no push. not many outside runs, no screens to willie. get the fool in space, he is the fastest guy on our team and one of the fastest in the league. why not?? but no 7 our of 8 times he would just hit the middle and hope to squeeze through a hole. back to ben, i think any QB would have had there best year in a four year career this year he almost doubled his pass attempts didn't he from his first two years?? he threw more last year but thats because we were playing behind a lot. hell he completed four less this year than he attempted in the super bowl season. does that say anything??

...hmm. you make a good argument against him. i agree that willie wasnt utilized properly. i wouldve also liked to see more davenport/russell giving him a breather.

mikehop05
01-09-2008, 05:54 PM
alright lets talk some draft

a guy that i feel will sleep considerably with all of these declarations may be early doucette

first off, cool name.

but he reminds me of a hines ward clone, not the fastest but is SOLID.. the dude is strong and does a lot of little things well (such as blocking and getting YAC [without great speed])

i think with guys like bowman and kelly entering, doucette will get lost and pushed back when he runs a 4.5ish 40, this is a guy we should look at with our 3rd if hes there...

looking at some other sites mocks i see him as a 2nd rounder in most of them, so maybe 3rd round isnt out of the question... though it may be wishful thinking

terribletowel39
01-09-2008, 05:56 PM
...hmm. you make a good argument against him. i agree that willie wasnt utilized properly. i wouldve also liked to see more davenport/russell giving him a breather.
yea i agree with you, no matter how many times willie tells the media or himself, he isn't a powerback. switch it up. Davenport is somewhat a bruiser, moreso than willie at 250lbs, Davis is a f*ckin' bowling ball, and NONE of us saw enough of Russell to say anything about him except that he looked a little tubby from being on PS all year.

steelersfan27
01-09-2008, 06:01 PM
alright lets talk some draft

a guy that i feel will sleep considerably with all of these declarations may be early doucette

first off, cool name.

but he reminds me of a hines ward clone, not the fastest but is SOLID.. the dude is strong and does a lot of little things well (such as blocking and getting YAC [without great speed])

i think with guys like bowman and kelly entering, doucette will get lost and pushed back when he runs a 4.5ish 40, this is a guy we should look at with our 3rd if hes there...

looking at some other sites mocks i see him as a 2nd rounder in most of them, so maybe 3rd round isnt out of the question... though it may be wishful thinking


hes very solid as you said, but isnt he injury prone? he was hurt most of this year and has had other injuries in years past.

steelersfan27
01-09-2008, 06:02 PM
and im making a big writeup/mock/entire offseason, and im evaluating this past year. do i need to post that in here?

Hines
01-09-2008, 06:54 PM
I prefer Thomas over any reciever in the draft.

Mr. Stiller
01-09-2008, 10:45 PM
yea ben has had a great year, but in my opinion he has thrown the ball too much. and willie had a lot more carries than every body else. the constant running up the middle when we had no push. not many outside runs, no screens to willie. get the fool in space, he is the fastest guy on our team and one of the fastest in the league. why not?? but no 7 our of 8 times he would just hit the middle and hope to squeeze through a hole. back to ben, i think any QB would have had there best year in a four year career this year he almost doubled his pass attempts didn't he from his first two years?? he threw more last year but thats because we were playing behind a lot. hell he completed four less this year than he attempted in the super bowl season. does that say anything??

That we finally have a franchise QB that has spent atleast his 2-3 seasons to get acclimated with the NFL and we trust him to run our offense?

Ben was the #2 Rated QB during the entire season and add that outside of Brady he probably had one of the most impressive TD to INT's .. almost 3:1 (32:11)

Like I said, I have a whole spiel I'll do later. Bed time.

Mike,

talk to me on aim more dude.

terribletowel39
01-09-2008, 10:54 PM
i guess i'm just too old school. and i don't like the throwing so much. yea ben had a good year. but we won a superbowl with smash mouth running and consistent QB play. we didn't win it with our QB throwing 49 times a game and absolutely having no running game. thats not our way. thats all i'm saying. right now i know we don't have a smash mouth runner, so use willie to his advantages. use him in space get him on the outside, don't drive him into the ground by running him up the gut almost 400 times a season. its bad play calling and we all know it.

Mr. Stiller
01-10-2008, 02:03 PM
i guess i'm just too old school. and i don't like the throwing so much. yea ben had a good year. but we won a superbowl with smash mouth running and consistent QB play. we didn't win it with our QB throwing 49 times a game and absolutely having no running game. thats not our way. thats all i'm saying. right now i know we don't have a smash mouth runner, so use willie to his advantages. use him in space get him on the outside, don't drive him into the ground by running him up the gut almost 400 times a season. its bad play calling and we all know it.

Willie is a 1-cut and go runner thats perfect in a Denver scheme.

The issue was a lot of plays this year he was supposed to read and make a cut back to the outside, the problem is he didn't make a lot of reads, and a lot of the time the OL didn't have a way for him to get back outside. He also had swollen knees for 5 games in the middle of the season.

the problem about saying for the superbowl team that we were smashmouth, we really weren't. Bettis didn't come back for 5 games into the season, and when he did he was only the Short Yardage Back.

terribletowel39
01-10-2008, 02:13 PM
Willie is a 1-cut and go runner thats perfect in a Denver scheme.

The issue was a lot of plays this year he was supposed to read and make a cut back to the outside, the problem is he didn't make a lot of reads, and a lot of the time the OL didn't have a way for him to get back outside. He also had swollen knees for 5 games in the middle of the season.

the problem about saying for the superbowl team that we were smashmouth, we really weren't. Bettis didn't come back for 5 games into the season, and when he did he was only the Short Yardage Back.
yea but our O-Line sucked so bad this year that there was no where for him to cut back to the outside. this Arians guy should have realized that after oh, i'll give him half the season and called different run plays. **** good coaches adjust at halftime, this fool didn't adjust the whole season. why does that not seem wrong to you?? he did the same **** week in and week out and it didn't work. the only reason willie was leading the NFL in rushing for so long was because he was getting the ball handed off an ungodly amount. he isn't meant to get the ball that much and he isn't meant to run up the gut every play. its bad coaching and i don't see how you could argue that.

Hines
01-10-2008, 02:51 PM
Foote and Timmons will challenge for the Mack linebacking spot. Honestly, I bet Timmons wins it.

Mr. Stiller
01-10-2008, 03:32 PM
yea but our O-Line sucked so bad this year that there was no where for him to cut back to the outside. this Arians guy should have realized that after oh, i'll give him half the season and called different run plays. **** good coaches adjust at halftime, this fool didn't adjust the whole season. why does that not seem wrong to you?? he did the same **** week in and week out and it didn't work. the only reason willie was leading the NFL in rushing for so long was because he was getting the ball handed off an ungodly amount. he isn't meant to get the ball that much and he isn't meant to run up the gut every play. its bad coaching and i don't see how you could argue that.

Um. He didn't make any adjustments?

Did you watch the Jax games, the 2nd Cleveland game? Our teams inability to go in ahead in the half left us struggling, but we made adjustments at half time and almost won all three of those games.


The thing is, You can't just quit doing something all the time. Unless you have a OL and Passing game like the Patriots you need some type of balance..

And Denver.. basically every game we lost, Arians adjusted in the second half and nearly led us to a win, sans the NE Game (Which a lot of teams didn't do a good job).

A lot of people are using Arians as a scapegoat. This was a bad team. Period.

Injuries, Age, lack of talent/depth in the trenches.

A couple of my arguments from elsewhere:

So did Whisenhunt, and Mularkey, and Gilbride.


Martz, Billick and Norv Turner who are "Offensive Geniuses" all have several questionable plays through a season.

No one is going to call a flawless season. Hell even NE had several "Questionable" Play calls this season.

All Arians did was:

Have the leagues leading rusher through 16 weeks.
Have the leagues #2 rated QB.
Utilizing the TE's more.

He has done EVERYTHING that people have complained for this offseason.

Using Ben more, Utilizing the TE's. A lot more Big downfield throws. All this with an aging #1, A dinged up #2, an Inconsistent #3, a horrible ST's and a OL that needs a lot of work.

Now people are complaining about Arians even though he did EVERYTHING that EVERYONE was clamoring for this past offseason. The problem isn't Arians, it's the fans that don't realize that perfection isn't possible. There's about 40-60 offensive snaps a game. There's going to be "Questionable calls".

They're questionable for a few reasons. 1) The defense has the perfect alignment to stop the play. 2) The players don't execute. 3) The play was poorly designed.

I think this season a lot of the "Questionable calls" had to go with the players didn't execute.

How many dropped passes in NE/First Jax game? How many fumbles did Willie have in the Cincy game?

Ben threw multiple Interceptions in 4 games. In those games he's 1-3. The Arizona game, the Denver game, The 2nd Cincy game and the Jacksonville game.

of his 14 INT's.. 8 came in losing games.


True, but say that a CB jumps the route.. Arians gets called an idiot because he had Ben throw the ball when Jacksonville was expecting a pass.

He runs a draw.. he's conservative.

If that play works, he's going to be a genius.

If it doesn't he's going to be an idiot.

people have to be unbiased to really look at it. Arians called great plays. How many times did we have 2-3 guys open and Ben held it for too long? Quite a few. How many guys did he have open during the Najeh pass? 2, Holmes deep middle which could have resulted in a TD, and Miller underneath. Mathis' TD return was a great jump on the route, but it's not like Ben looked the corner off, Mathis knew Ben was locked on Holmes and jumped the route.

Ben made a huge jump and he's way further along in the developmental stage. I put him on a John Elway type player. A bit of a Gunslinger, with the tenacity to run and dive head first. He's a beast in that sense. It took John Elway 4 tries to win a Superbowl.

Bens been to 3 postseasons in his 4 year career. He has another 11-14 seasons, and in that time he has plenty of time to understand that sometimes you throw it away, sometimes you throw it underneath if nothing is open deep.

But In a season where our offense was top notch, I would rather give Arians another few years.

Let the players understand the playbook better, Oline improvement, QB making less boneheaded decisions and have the WR's catch better.

What did we rank 17th in? Total offense?

Remember how stifling our defense was in the first half of the season? That gave us a short field 90% of the time...

We had the 9th overall scoring offense, the only other top 5 defense to rank ahead of us in overall scoring was San Diego.

We were 17th in total yards per game. A short field would answer a lot of that.

How bout this stat.

We completed the most 3rd downs in the league, and the 3rd highest percentage of 3rd downs completed only behind Indy and NE... only by 2% total for the first overall.

We also had the #1 offense in Time of Possession.


Judging an offense by scoring or Yards per game is a really biased and rather irrelevant in the scheme of things.

When you have the #1 defense you likely won't have the #1 offense in scoring or Yardage..

Why?

because unlike teams like Cincinnati, or cleveland, you don't have to put up 40-50 points to win every game.

I pointed out in another thread, our average differential per win was +7 and loss was by 4.

I don't think "Yards" or "overall points" tells the tale of the offense.

Again, you're looking at 1 play.

How come I have not seen a Cut or Release Ben thread? He's the one that put us in the hole.

Arians called the plays that, if they were executed by Ben, we wouldn't have lost by 3 points, but likely won by 10 or more.

Ben throwing 3 INT's, not very many Coordinators can overcome that with playcalling, Arians led us back in the game.


Just like the holding call and the 3rd and 6 call. A playoff or regular season game should not come down to 1 play. Since this did, thats all people will remember, they'll forget the putrid first half that Ben had because he's the first QB since Terry Bradshaw to be worth something.

Can't ignore Bens mistakes and blame Arians.


With this OL, injuries and age, I'm not saying we should be fulfilled, but we should be content we won the division and made the playoffs. Theres a lot of coaching candidates we could've hired that would have this team at 8-8 or worse.

Look,

I'm not saying he's the end all be all of offensive coordinators, I mean I wouldn't mind a Bill Walsh or Cam Cameron.

The fact remains, that he, like every other coordinator in the league, has calls that are questionable.

The difference is, they see the gametape and know what goes into the gameplan.

Tomlin said " I've seen great gameplans do nothing and sketchy ones do great". It's true, you can out gameplan the opposing team and have the perfect setup to beat them.. but if you're team doesn't execute.. it doesn't matter if you have a flawless gameplan, it's still going to be subpar.

He coordinated a 10-6 record, with a QB having his best season in 4 years, Better than any 3 years under Ken Whisenhunt who I guess is an offensive mastermind who couldn't get Arizona to really even compete for their terrible division. He also took the TE's and used them more, had Willie as the leagues leading rusher. Had an aging #1, a young #2, an inconsistent #3 and an average veteran #4.

He had no help whatsoever in the return game. Imagine how much better his offense might of looked if we didn't fair catch every punt and only return every ball to the 15-25.

I think my biggest issue with the Anti-Arians sentiment going on these boards, is everyone calling for his head is a hypocrite.

I know a lot and I mean a lot of fans wanted things like:

*Let Ben run the offense more - He did, best statistical season by far, even trusted him to win the Jax game.

*Utilize the TE's - We did, I don't remember the exact stats, but something like +20 catches +250(More than this I believe) Yards and +5 or so TD's. He utilized them more. The second half of the season, he couldn't as much because we lost our starting LT, then our backup LT, we needed the extra blockers.

*Spread opposing offenses out more and pass more - he did. He and Ben have developed a relationship for working plays out, which is perfect IMO. He's find out what Ben is comfortable running and running those plays.


The only thing I'd ask to add is a couple more 3 and 5 step drop passes to neutralize a pass rush, but at the same time, there's quite a few plays where Ben holds the ball too long.

We overcame that those picks with Arians playcalling as well.

I think it's funny, when Ben has a terrible game, throwing 3 INT's, it's Arians fault, but when Ben throws 5 TD's in a half, he's a godsend.

If you want to believe that games should come down to 1 play.. fine.

Bens 3 INTS, thats 3 boneheaded plays.

ST's gaffe return, there's a nother.

Woodleys blown coverage, thats another.

any one of those plays could have saved the game, or put the nail in the coffin.

My point is, No game should come down to 1 play. If you truly believe that, you should really watch soccer or Hockey

Wendell. I try to be pretty level headed about things, and I've been one of those people that try to look at everything unbiased. The things I went through growing up taught me that.

And thats why I'm so adament and I'm fighting with everyone in every thread. Arians did nothing to deserve getting fired. We're all psycho happy about Whis' 3 years here, Arians outcalls him in one year with a rookie HC and a Brand spankin' new playbook and He's garbage.

I just don't think people either understand football, or they need a scapegoat, and you can't blame your favorite players. Like.. Cincy game 2, We could have very well lost that, who's to blame.. Arians obviously, but not Willie Parkers 4 fumbles.

As for us having such bad playing calling.. our play calling had the 2nd rated QB in the league, a Pro-bowl invite.. Our RB was leading for the rushing crown, our TE was on the cusp of a Pro-bowl invite and this all with a crappy OL, an aging #1, a very dinged up #2.

Does anyone remember the Seattle game? We won that game with Ced Wilson, Willie Reid and Nate Washington as our WR's....

21-0 as well, of which I was in attendance.

I just don't get the hate for a guy that did everything, and I mean everything that people were badgering about this past offseason.

terribletowel39
01-10-2008, 03:42 PM
so i just had this long thing typed out that i was going to respond but then accidently hit the backspace button and it got wiped out. basically saying in a summed up review.

i respect what you are saying, i just disagree. i don't like the way the offense is run. if i was one of the ones asking for the things that happened this year, i apologize i was wrong, i didn't want it. its not steelers football. Shiver said in another thread that we were now a throwing team comparable to NE and Indy. i don't want that. there is a team in the NFL that now plays steelers football better than the steelers and we have been beaten by them twice this year. i don't like that. get back to the old way. its better, its why i love being a steelers fan.

Mr. Stiller
01-10-2008, 04:20 PM
so i just had this long thing typed out that i was going to respond but then accidently hit the backspace button and it got wiped out. basically saying in a summed up review.

i respect what you are saying, i just disagree. i don't like the way the offense is run. if i was one of the ones asking for the things that happened this year, i apologize i was wrong, i didn't want it. its not steelers football. Shiver said in another thread that we were now a throwing team comparable to NE and Indy. i don't want that. there is a team in the NFL that now plays steelers football better than the steelers and we have been beaten by them twice this year. i don't like that. get back to the old way. its better, its why i love being a steelers fan.

Here's where I think I'm bugged by the "Arians didn't make any offensive adjustments".

We didn't have the dominating OL or Runningbacks that Jacksonville has. If we had their OL, and MJD to split Carries with Willie Parker (We really really really wanted MJD, we were hoping we'd get him in round 2 of '06, but he didn't fall past Jacksonville, which is why we traded down for An Smith and Willie Reid.).

We don't have a dominant physical #2 RB like MJD.
We don't have the Physical OL like Jacksonville has.

Yes they out-steelered us. The fact is, Arians and Tomlin inherited the Team that Cowher built. Right now, that means a finesse OL, Run game, a very good QB and Solid core of WR's.

Jacksonville has 3 very good blocking WR's as well. We don't have that.

Which is probably what we'll be building towards the next few drafts.

Back to Arians, he took what he was given and built a playbook around them.

So like I said, I'm impressed with Arians Playcalling.

This team wasn't a 10-6 team, this team was a 6-10/7-9 team. Arians, LeBeau and Tomlin took them to a division title and had the #2 QB, #1 RB through the season.

I want to see Arians with a better OL and weapons.

If he has MJD, and Jacksonvilles OL, The Runs up the middle and such is a no big deal because Willie would likely be averaging near 5.0 yards per carry and would have:
1) More TD's
1) More runs of 20+ and 40+.

terribletowel39
01-10-2008, 04:27 PM
i know and i understand that if we would have had that that it would seem better, but the thing i am saying is that we didn't have the o-line, and he still tried to accomplish the inside running as much as he did. and i might also have so much hatred for him because of that dumb ******' 3rd and 7 QB draw call. a big situation that might have put the game away if we get that first down and thats what he came up with. a 245lb QB gaining 7 yards behind one of the worst lines we have had in quite some time. just bitter.

steelersfan27
01-10-2008, 04:29 PM
Here's where I think I'm bugged by the "Arians didn't make any offensive adjustments".

We didn't have the dominating OL or Runningbacks that Jacksonville has. If we had their OL, and MJD to split Carries with Willie Parker (We really really really wanted MJD, we were hoping we'd get him in round 2 of '06, but he didn't fall past Jacksonville, which is why we traded down for An Smith and Willie Reid.).

We don't have a dominant physical #2 RB like MJD.
We don't have the Physical OL like Jacksonville has.

Yes they out-steelered us. The fact is, Arians and Tomlin inherited the Team that Cowher built. Right now, that means a finesse OL, Run game, a very good QB and Solid core of WR's.

Jacksonville has 3 very good blocking WR's as well. We don't have that.

Which is probably what we'll be building towards the next few drafts.

Back to Arians, he took what he was given and built a playbook around them.

So like I said, I'm impressed with Arians Playcalling.

This team wasn't a 10-6 team, this team was a 6-10/7-9 team. Arians, LeBeau and Tomlin took them to a division title and had the #2 QB, #1 RB through the season.

I want to see Arians with a better OL and weapons.

If he has MJD, and Jacksonvilles OL, The Runs up the middle and such is a no big deal because Willie would likely be averaging near 5.0 yards per carry and would have:
1) More TD's
1) More runs of 20+ and 40+.

wow. if only MJD would have fallen to us. There's your power back and return man solution. plus he can do anything out of the backfield.