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View Full Version : Whos Stock was hurt/strengthened in the National Championship?


Thunder&Lightning
01-08-2008, 06:59 AM
Whos stock was hurt and whos stock was strengthened last night in the National Championship game?

OSU
Weakened: OSU OLine
Strengthened: Jenkins

LSU
Weakened: ?
Strengthened: Flynn, Hester, Doucet

Grave Digger
01-08-2008, 08:16 AM
LSU:
Hester definitely I think.

Whichever Tackle blocked Vernon Gholston shut him down the entire night. I bet he got a boost.

Doucet definitely helped his case.

Ricky Jean-Francois made some money for the future by being completely dominant.

Ali Highsmith had a pretty solid game.

Both Corners Chevis Jackson and Jonathan Zenon helped themselves with good nights. Jackson looked pretty dang good in man coverage.

Craig Steltz getting injured probably didn't help himself

OSU:

Laurinaitis had a solid game with close to 20 tackles. Marcus Freeman didn't do too bad either.

Larry Grant had the best night for them. He was all over the place.

Beanie Wells continued to strengthen his stock and I imagina he'll come out next year due to the weak RB class.

Despite his INTs, I think Todd Boeckman didn't do that bad. He looked like an NFL QB out there, he just wasn't getting much help.

I think OSU's offensive and defensive linemen didn't do so hot. Rehring had a pretty bad night at Guard and Vernon Gholston didn't make the impact he should have.

Iamcanadian
01-08-2008, 09:10 AM
I think Tressel and his staff looked sad next to LSU's staff. He was outcoached by a mile.

I don't think Ohio St.'s players really suffered much, their gameplans stunk much more than the players.

As for LSU, Hester and Doucet improved their stock by quite a bit. Their CB's certainly played well. Flynn showed himself to at least be quite a leader. I thought Howard Johnson was pretty dominate.

metafour
01-08-2008, 10:12 AM
I dont see how Doucet did anything to help his stock. He once again proved that he's not a deep theat at all, and that he's essentially a 6'0 short yardage possession receiver. He's good at what he does, but I cant see how what he does will help him much...he doesn't look like a #1 receiver and that will significantly cap his draft grade.

Jughead10
01-08-2008, 10:18 AM
I dont see how Doucet did anything to help his stock. He once again proved that he's not a deep theat at all, and that he's essentially a 6'0 short yardage possession receiver. He's good at what he does, but I cant see how what he does will help him much...he doesn't look like a #1 receiver and that will significantly cap his draft grade.

Many were predicting him to fall. I think he is firmly in the end of round 1 as of now. Anthony Gonzalez went at #32 and I certainly don't think he is any worse than him.

metafour
01-08-2008, 10:23 AM
Many were predicting him to fall. I think he is firmly in the end of round 1 as of now. Anthony Gonzalez went at #32 and I certainly don't think he is any worse than him.

Still too early to tell. Gonzalez was helped greatly by the fact that the Colts needed a replacement slot guy and he fit that role perfectly. If the Colts passed on Gonzalez I doubt he would have gone as high as he ended up going because not many other teams were stacked enough to take a slot receiver that high.

Jughead10
01-08-2008, 10:27 AM
Still too early to tell. Gonzalez was helped greatly by the fact that the Colts needed a replacement slot guy and he fit that role perfectly. If the Colts passed on Gonzalez I doubt he would have gone as high as he ended up going because not many other teams were stacked enough to take a slot receiver that high.

Well Scott had him going 41, which isn't that much further than 32. Regardless I think Doucet is a better player.

regoob2
01-08-2008, 10:36 AM
I didn't watch the whole game but when I did i didn't see gholston make one play.

dabears10
01-08-2008, 11:05 AM
I feel like Gholston was the one guy who was working his butt off on the OSU Front 7. I thought he was the man stopping LSU on sweep plays to his side. Maybe I was the only impressed with his play.

keylime_5
01-08-2008, 11:10 AM
All of Ohio State's defensive players played well individually. Scheme sucked though. Gholston was dominant last night, too bad he didn't get his sacks though, the LSU offense used a lot of 3 step drops and short passes. Laurinaitis had almost 20 tackles. Jenkins had that one bad play for a TD, but also had a lot of great plays including that big INT. Our offensive line and Beanie Wells played good too, Boeckman sucked. In fact I think Todd was the only Buckeye who was actually really bad individually.

metafour
01-08-2008, 11:20 AM
Laurinaitis last night was a great example of how just looking at "tackles" is a ridiculous way to judge a LB. He was absolutely terrible in pass coverage. He picked up a bunch of garbage tackles and that was it.

terribletowel39
01-08-2008, 11:27 AM
maybe its because i am an LSU fan, but i agree with metafour about Laurinaitis. he didn't impress me at all. yea he had all the tackles but were any for a loss?? he got ran over atleast two times by Hester. same thing for all the other great defenders on that squad. Gholston as well. didn't impress me. had one good play and that was about it. and then Jenkins. he didn't impress me either. he had the INT but **** the ball was thrown horribly and it was directly to him. and he still almost dropped it. the offensive line didn't play well. that got man handled most of the game in protecting the QB. and many a play were holding when a run was called the few times a run was called.

Cashmoney
01-08-2008, 11:43 AM
Laurinaitis last night was a great example of how just looking at "tackles" is a ridiculous way to judge a LB. He was absolutely terrible in pass coverage. He picked up a bunch of garbage tackles and that was it.

Exactly. And most of those tackles occurred downfield.

ljk2171
01-08-2008, 11:56 AM
Laurinaitis last night was a great example of how just looking at "tackles" is a ridiculous way to judge a LB. He was absolutely terrible in pass coverage. He picked up a bunch of garbage tackles and that was it.


You're completely correct, I think another year in school would benefit Laurinaitis. But also who am I to tell someone to turn down millions of dollars.

keylime_5
01-08-2008, 12:08 PM
Gimme a break, Laurinaitis made plays last night, they just all happened to be in the run game and against the screens, etc. He wasn't too hot in his man coverage, but oh well, he made plays in the run game. He played a good game last night for the most part, nothing wrong with his performance, he showed some of the reasons why he is the best LB in the country from what I saw. Grant was our best LB last night though the way he played. Bad scheme, bad defensive coaching, water under bridge.

Grave Digger
01-08-2008, 12:19 PM
As good as Laurinaitis is, he got out played by his teammate Larry Grant. He seemed to be the only one hustling.

I think Laurinaitis got outplayed by Ali Highsmith also.

icantackleclaret
01-08-2008, 12:28 PM
I don't know where this post belongs so I will ask it here. Does losing a 2nd NC game give the Juniors more or less motivation to stay and try to win one?

rascal
01-08-2008, 12:40 PM
Laurinaitis last night was a great example of how just looking at "tackles" is a ridiculous way to judge a LB. He was absolutely terrible in pass coverage. He picked up a bunch of garbage tackles and that was it.

I agree. IMO he looked pretty average at best.

bored of education
01-08-2008, 12:45 PM
I remember a few times in which the coverage called for Laurinaitis to be in the wrong place, so that can't be a knock on him- but a knock on the coaching. His biggest quote unquote negative on this board was his block shedding skills, ability to pursue etc. Well he did that last night. SO ****

FinNasty
01-08-2008, 12:46 PM
I was NOT impressed with Laurinaitis...


However, I disagree with some of the critisizm of Gholston. Dont lump him in with the rest of that crappy overrated team. Gholston got a lot of pressue on the QB. While he may not have come away with the sack #s, he caused Flinn to toss the ball away multiple times, including an intential grounding which is the same as a sack.

Gholston showed he could go inside, outside, and bullrush... showing he can beat someone with either speed or strength. He seemed to play best on the strong side of the defense (left side), whether his hand was on the ground or he was standing up. I was more impressed with him on that side of the ball. One thing I would like to see from him was a spin move... but he has a great rip move and swim move.


He played the run pretty well to. A little inconsistant, but he made plays against the run. I definatly think he is going to be better, especially against the run, standing up instead of having his hand on the ground on the next level.

ljk2171
01-08-2008, 12:47 PM
I don't know where this post belongs so I will ask it here. Does losing a 2nd NC game give the Juniors more or less motivation to stay and try to win one?


I would think it would make it more intriguing to return. But at the same time, a lot of money is being waved infront of these kids.

bored of education
01-08-2008, 12:51 PM
Someone justify the defensive play calling causing Laurinaitis to be in the wrong place be a negative for him?

FinNasty
01-08-2008, 12:57 PM
Someone justify the defensive play calling causing Laurinaitis to be in the wrong place be a negative for him?

Not sure if it was playcalling... especially on the play where LSU lined a lineman up out at WR. Laurinaitis was confused as hell, and didnt see that the guy lined up at LT was actually a TE eligable for a pass. He was sending more DBs over to the group of WRs and LT...

icantackleclaret
01-08-2008, 01:18 PM
The 100% truth of the matter is that Ohio State has the worst D cord. in all of the land. Ohio State has plenty of talent but when your go to play is zone defense you can only make up so much ground. Until these kids go to the pros and actually get coach by good coaches all they can do is what they know.

kingjames
01-08-2008, 01:39 PM
Down Trend:

Tressel: Guy made his reputation beating Miami with Coker and UoM with Carr. Not saying much in hindsight. The play calling on both sides of the ball and preparation was poor .... dare I say Lloyd Carr-esque, AGAIN.

Laurinaitis: Your MLB, Top 10 pick, should not be confused on any coverage. Should not be confused at all. He looked small and overwhelmed v LSU

OSU QB: Some folks said he was a top prospect. Not sure what if anything I saw last night to justify that. Held the ball too long. Could not get passes into tight coverage windows. Threw some wobblers for no reason. If this guy is the best prospect in the country for 09 then Chad Henne is the TOP PICK in this draft. Henne is 10x the QB.

Up Trend:

Heyward: Put aside the penalty. Look spretty damn good for a Frosh.

Hester: Hate to say he looked good. Still don't think much of him as a TB or FB but he is a football player no dobut.

LSU WR: Looked damn good to me. All of them.

Chevis: Looked alot better than I expected for a "Saban" corner. The OSU receivers are fast and he kept with them IMHO.

sweetd20
01-08-2008, 01:46 PM
Jackson really impressed me for LSU and should be a pretty good pro player. His INTs aren't up there with a lot of guys but he does well with PBUs. The more I watch Hester and how he plays it reminds me more and more of how Emmitt Smith played the game. Neither has great speed or moves but both know how to read a defense, find the hole, pass protect, and catch the ball out of the backfield. If Hester goes to a good training facility pre-combine he shoud impress at the combine with his knowledge and ability to play the game. Johnson is just a monster at LG and was pancaking guys all night. Flynn was Flynn and should be a servicable backup that can look good in spots when his number is called.

On the Buckeyes side Laurinaitis looked good but not top 10 good last night. A lot of the time he was the lone guy covering the mid level with Grant and Freeman beign sent on blitzes. He's definately going to have to focus a lot on his pass coverage to become an elite NFL MLB. One big problem the defense had last night was that they were tipping their hand on the blitzes too early in the snap count. Grant stepped up last night and was everywhere on the field. Freeman followed up a good game against Michigan with another good game. It would of been nice to see them drop him into coverage more to utilize his speed and help out Laurinaitis. Depending on how many guys stay and how many go Freeman might want to enter the draft. If most of the stars on defense leave I think he would do well by following suit. When they all leave he will become the focus of opposing offense and scheme away from him. He would have to be even better than he was this year and that might be tough as the marked man.

Jenkins wasn't the player he's been hyped to be and played on his heels at times. It will be interesting to see what he weighs at the combine. If he's big enough I think he can be a much better ballhawking FS than CB at the next level. His big play was when he was playing off more like a S and was able to break on the ball. With Gholston his game could look bad if a person just looks t the stat line. When actually he was disrupting plays time and again in the backfield. One reason he didn't get the sacks was that the coverage wasn't tight enough and allowed Flynn to get rid of the ball quickly.

For the most part the outcome for a lot of these guys was that they most likely stayed just about where most scouts had them ranked.

keylime_5
01-08-2008, 02:12 PM
Put JL in a pro defense and he'll flourish. I don't like the playcalls by Heacock against those good pro style offenses like Wisky and LSU. JL will be a perfect cover 2 ILB, and I think he could flourish in a 34 too if he's put at WILB.

art vandelay
01-08-2008, 02:21 PM
My boy Chevis Jackson looked great, IMO. That is going to give him alot of momentum going into the Senior Bowl where he will be a local celeb.

energizerbunny
01-08-2008, 02:22 PM
if you weren't impressed by Gholston's play I suggest you go back and watch the game again.... he showed a great first step, is strong enough to drive Men 50 pounds heavier then him back tot he QB and fast enough to get around the slow tackles. He also dropped back in coverage and looked great playing in space, defending the LSU.


Malcolm Jenkins hurt himself a bit, but Vernon had the type of game I expected.... he had tones of pressure and was really the only guy getting after flynn consistently. HE also showed great ability in the run game to hold the POA.

P-L
01-08-2008, 02:23 PM
I'm a huge Malcolm Jenkins fan, but wasn't impressed by him one bit last night. He didn't play bad, but he was only "solid." James Laurinaitis did not look good at all in my opinion, despite the tackle numbers. I think he's leaning towards coming back, and I think that's the right decision. Gholston looked good again.

Glenn Dorsey really struggled in the first half, but had a real nice second half. Jacob Hester and Chevis Jackson both had good games.

energizerbunny
01-08-2008, 02:31 PM
I'm a huge Malcolm Jenkins fan, but wasn't impressed by him one bit last night. He didn't play bad, but he was only "solid." James Laurinaitis did not look good at all in my opinion, despite the tackle numbers. I think he's leaning towards coming back, and I think that's the right decision. Gholston looked good again.

Glenn Dorsey really struggled in the first half, but had a real nice second half. Jacob Hester and Chevis Jackson both had good games.




I think DOrsey had his typical game.... disappear for the entire game and then make like 2 or 3 good plays late in the game... I must say he did look alot faster off the snap last night then he did in the season though, probally a sign he was healthy.




He really got outshined by Jean-Francois though, that play on the goaline verus Cordle was amazing one of the most impressive plays a Interior lineman can make.... if it wasn't for that penetration it was a sure fire TD.



I'm not even sure Dorsey is LSU's best Interior DLineman.

MidwayMonster31
01-08-2008, 02:33 PM
LSU:
Matt Flynn may not be more than a back-up in the NFL, but he played well enough to make a team.
Will Arnold opened up holes and should be drafted as a guard.
Glenn Dorsey was healthy and showed what he could do, the Dolphins should pick him first, if they keep it.
Chevis Jackson made plays, was around the ball and should end up as a nickel back.
Ali Highsmith was the fastest player on defense and he would fit a tampa-2 very well.
Jacob Hester showed that he could catch the ball and block, but did not show that he could be a feature back.
Early Doucet looked better when healthy, even though he didn't have to go down the field.
Ricky Jean-Francois helped himself, but should wait another year.
Tyson Jackson had a few good plays, but didn't show much, he should wait another year.
Craig Steltz got hurt and that shoulder could hurt his stock if it lingers.
Ohio State:
Todd Boeckman made a few bad throws under pressure, but showed he could make it in the NFL.
Beanie Wells should be one of the top prospects next year, if he declares.
Brian Robiskie and Brian Hartline couldn't help Boeckman at all and Ray Small let Jackson take the ball away from him on the first pick. I wouldn't draft either one of these guys.
The tackles (Boone and Barton) didn't do terrible, but because most of the pressure came from the middle, they will look bad on film.
Gholston got good pressure, but has to develop pass-rushing moves.
Laurinaitis made tackles, but kept getting beat on coverage, fits a 3-4 better.
Malcolm Jenkins made plays and tackles and should be the first cornerback taken this year.

gsoturf
01-08-2008, 02:38 PM
Basing draft stock off of one game is not very smart.. Scouts look at the whole body of work not one game.

terribletowel39
01-08-2008, 02:38 PM
I'm not even sure Dorsey is LSU's best Interior DLineman.
which is kinda scary.

on another note: he is an interior dlineman. you don't hear interior defensive linemans names called often. but you hear Dorsey's name more during a game than any other in college. hell the steelers have one of the best NT in the game and you hear his name called because of a play maybe 15-20 times a season. they are the guys that take on 2 and 3 guys so the rest of the defense can go make plays. Dorsey doesn't disappear that often he just does his job. because of the hype he has received, most people expect him to do that and more every play.

energizerbunny
01-08-2008, 02:40 PM
Basing draft stock off of one game is not very smart.. Scouts look at the whole body of work not one game.

true, but when on the biggest stage... against possibly the top talent and the most pressure these games usually have alot more stock in them then your average game.

george_allen
01-08-2008, 03:51 PM
All of Ohio State's defensive players played well individually. Scheme sucked though. Gholston was dominant last night . . . .

as usual, i liked what i saw of gholston. still an enthusiastic fan of his. but there was something of his play last night that i hadn't seen, or at least noticed, before - he seemed to "hang back" quite a bit : particularly in run plays to side opposite of where he lined up - he would get around the periphery of the play but didn't take it to the ball carrier.
anyone else notice that?
any thoughts on it if you did notice it?

Michigan
01-08-2008, 03:58 PM
Laurenaitis looked pretty ugly yesterday. Made a lot of tackles downfield, but wasn't the difference maker he's hyped up to be.

The best player on either side was Chris Wells. He should be a top 5 pick next year.

energizerbunny
01-08-2008, 04:01 PM
as usual, i liked what i saw of gholston. still an enthusiastic fan of his. but there was something of his play last night that i hadn't seen, or at least noticed, before - he seemed to "hang back" quite a bit : particularly in run plays to side opposite of where he lined up - he would get around the periphery of the play but didn't take it to the ball carrier.
anyone else notice that?
any thoughts on it if you did notice it?


I believe thats systematic, because the exact same thing happened with the other end.

ANd he did the exact same thing all season when I watched him.

Billingsley26
01-08-2008, 04:42 PM
Laurinaitis last night was a great example of how just looking at "tackles" is a ridiculous way to judge a LB. He was absolutely terrible in pass coverage. He picked up a bunch of garbage tackles and that was it.

EXACTLY! He had a tough time at the LOS fighting off blocks and making stops. I would constantly see him tackle Hester 5 or 6 yards as he was falling down and brough Hester with him. Tackles to me dont mean a lot. Look at London Fletcher. Is he an elite LB because he made so many tackles? Hardly.

Laurinaitis is a good LB, dont get me wrong, but trying to boost him because he had 20 tackles doesnt say alot about you. If youtruly watched him play, you could see the OL getting right in his face, and knocking him back.

I was however, impressed with Alex Boone. He is going to be great when he comes out. He got the second level so many times on run plays. I thought his run blocking was one of the best I have seen in years. Gratned I didnt pay too much attention to him previously, but he looked great in run blocking last night.

underscore
01-08-2008, 04:56 PM
Laurinaitis was what he's been all season. A solid LB, and nothing else.

Struggled in pass coverage, as he has all year.
Struggled shedding blocks, as he has all year.
Struggled to get in the backfield, as he has all year.
One positive he has is that when he latches on, he wraps up very well.

He'll have a longer than average NFL career, but he's mid-round talent at this point.

Komp
01-08-2008, 05:33 PM
I thought Dorsey played fairly well last night actually. He was constantly double teamed and opened up a lot of 1 on 1 blocking for his fellow DL to make plays, which they did.

keylime_5
01-08-2008, 05:35 PM
I hope Malcolm Jenkins stays another year too, our defense will be extremely sick if that happens. It's not that unrealistic either, in fact there are some who say he will. I think Gholston is the only Buckeye junior who is sure to leave, and rightfully so. He'll probably be a top 10 pick, right now looking like #6 overall is where he is the favorite to land. It'll be a heck of unit next year if we have Laurinaitis, Freeman, and Jenkins as seniors with underclassmen studs like Washington, Russell, Heyward, and Wilson.

Babylon
01-08-2008, 05:38 PM
EXACTLY! He had a tough time at the LOS fighting off blocks and making stops. I would constantly see him tackle Hester 5 or 6 yards as he was falling down and brough Hester with him. Tackles to me dont mean a lot. Look at London Fletcher. Is he an elite LB because he made so many tackles? Hardly.

Laurinaitis is a good LB, dont get me wrong, but trying to boost him because he had 20 tackles doesnt say alot about you. If youtruly watched him play, you could see the OL getting right in his face, and knocking him back.

I was however, impressed with Alex Boone. He is going to be great when he comes out. He got the second level so many times on run plays. I thought his run blocking was one of the best I have seen in years. Gratned I didnt pay too much attention to him previously, but he looked great in run blocking last night.

Let me respond to Boone and Lauranaitis and maybe some of the others later.

I agree with you on Boone, the guy is huge and has good footwork and appears to be strong with his hands, as you mentioned he gets to the second level without any trouble and probably better than the top guy Jake Long does. The only word of caution on what we saw may be that he was going against the lesser of LSU's defensive lineman. My guess would be he would be a late 1st rounder and would probably be wise to come out even if the money he could make up in next years draft could make it a tough decision.

Lauranaitis was a little dissapointing to me but what i've learned over the years is an inside linebacker is almost as good as his defensive line. Whether you're talking Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher their success has almost always coincided with the play of the guys in front of them. This years DL for Ohio State didnt look like anything special to me especially the interior line. Others have pointed to the schemes the Buckeyes were employing or maybe the lack there of. I think JL can be a good one with the right team but not sure he's AJ Hawk.

Sniper
01-08-2008, 05:41 PM
Looking up

DE Vernon Gholston
LB Ali Highsmith
RB/FB Jacob Hester
CB Chevis Jackson (minus the brutal stiff arm he took)
QB Matt Flynn

On the down swing

LB James Laurinaitis (sweet tackles 20 yards after the LOS)
WR Early Doucet (HOW THE **** IS THIS GUY CONSIDERED A FIRST ROUNDER? 9.2 ypc this season)
CB Malcolm Jenkins
QB Todd Boeckman

soybean
01-08-2008, 05:49 PM
On the down swing

LB James Laurinaitis (sweet tackles 20 yards after the LOS)
WR Early Doucet (HOW THE **** IS THIS GUY CONSIDERED A FIRST ROUNDER? 9.2 ypc this season)
CB Malcolm Jenkins
QB Todd Boeckman

funny how people considered Doucet the best WR in this class preseason and also LSU's best receiver over craig davis and bowe.

Babylon
01-08-2008, 05:53 PM
funny how people considered Doucet the best WR in this class preseason and also LSU's best receiver over craig davis and bowe.

Sort of unrelated but Malcolm Kelly gets a 2nd round projection from an advisory board? This is one of the toughest WR crops to figure out in years.