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View Full Version : Vernon Gholsten and James Lauranitus


indyfan1985
01-08-2008, 08:51 PM
Does anyone believe either one of these players will stay in school?

Thunder&Lightning
01-08-2008, 08:53 PM
lauranitus maybe gholsten highly doubt it

indyfan1985
01-08-2008, 08:56 PM
Im just asking cause I dont wanna see the Pats end up with either one of these guys. Personally I think this is the pick that should have been taken away from them rather then their own 1st rounder. If either one of them stays that lessens the chance the Pats land one of them.

Go Cowboys
01-08-2008, 08:57 PM
Lauranitus is reportedly leaning towards staying. I haven't heard anything either way on Gholsten

GET LOOSE
01-08-2008, 09:02 PM
not sure but even if they go i dont think gholston will be around. Lauranitus is a different story

keylime_5
01-08-2008, 09:04 PM
I think all our juniors will stay except Gholston. He is basically Shawne Merriman without the steroids and bigger muscles anyways.

GET LOOSE
01-08-2008, 09:11 PM
I think all our juniors will stay except Gholston. If you don't want to Pats to take Gholston then you don't know what's good for you. He is basically Shawne Merriman without the steroids and bigger muscles anyways.

U got it wrong buddy. he was saying he dosent like da pats and dont want da pats to get him

keylime_5
01-08-2008, 09:15 PM
oh, okay, my B, I'm stupid.

derza222
01-08-2008, 09:17 PM
Gholston should probably declare but I haven't heard much and Laurinaitus supposedly is leaning towards not declaring. No way Gholston gets to the Pats I'm worried he won't get to the Jets at the 6 spot but if he does he's almost guaranteed to get drafted by NY.

GET LOOSE
01-08-2008, 09:30 PM
Gholston should probably declare but I haven't heard much and Laurinaitus supposedly is leaning towards not declaring. No way Gholston gets to the Pats I'm worried he won't get to the Jets at the 6 spot but if he does he's almost guaranteed to get drafted by NY.

lets hope so. he would be a great addition to our young D

keylime_5
01-08-2008, 09:33 PM
my mock top 6
1-MIA-Dorsey
2-STL-C.Long
3-OAK-McFadden
4-ATL-Ryan
5-KC-J.Long
6-NYJ-GHOLSTON!!!

gangGREENinsider
01-08-2008, 09:36 PM
Gholston should probably declare but I haven't heard much and Laurinaitus supposedly is leaning towards not declaring. No way Gholston gets to the Pats I'm worried he won't get to the Jets at the 6 spot but if he does he's almost guaranteed to get drafted by NY.

That a stretch. I like him as a prospect don't get me wrong he's a freak of an athlete, but #6 and lord knows #1 might be high for a guy who's stiff in coverage, has a frame that's beyond maxed out(steroids), and is inconsistent vs. the run. I for one like the value of DE/OLB tweeners in the 2nd, 3rd, even 4th rounds...

BroadwayJoe10
01-08-2008, 09:37 PM
my mock top 6
1-MIA-Dorsey
2-STL-C.Long
3-OAK-McFadden
4-ATL-Ryan
5-KC-J.Long
6-NYJ-GHOLSTON!!!

haha it's like the seem from top gun where wolfman says to hollywood "this gives me a hard on." Vulgaries aside, I truly hope the jets end up with gholston and really think they'll be a NT away from being a very solid defense.

BroadwayJoe10
01-08-2008, 09:41 PM
That a stretch. I like him as a prospect don't get me wrong he's a freak of an athlete, but #6 and lord knows #1 might be high for a guy who's stiff in coverage, has a frame that's beyond maxed out(steroids), and is inconsistent vs. the run. I for one like the value of DE/OLB tweeners in the 2nd, 3rd, even 4th rounds...

His coverage will only get better, but he won't be asked to drop back into coverage all that much. Demarcus ware, Shawne merriman and Kamerion Wimbley are arguably the best OLB/DE tweeners in the league and were drafted 11th, 12th and 13th overall, respectively. I think if you want an elite one a first round gradeout is worth it, especially when OLB is a key cog in the 34 defense.

I do not beleive gholston is on steroids, but that is just my opinion. His frame also does not need to get any bigger and his smarts and love for film will overcome the fluidity of his hips.

GET LOOSE
01-08-2008, 09:43 PM
haha it's like the seem from top gun where wolfman says to hollywood "this gives me a hard on." Vulgaries aside, I truly hope the jets end up with gholston and really think they'll be a NT away from being a very solid defense.

yup and their are some big DT/NTs in the draft wich we can get in the 3rd or 4th. Red Bryant, Ahtyba Ruben, and Frank Morton possibley

george_allen
01-08-2008, 09:52 PM
my mock top 6
1-MIA-Dorsey
2-STL-GHOLSTON!!!
3-OAK-McFadden
4-ATL-Ryan
5-KC-J.Long
6-NYJ-

there.
fixed it for me.

energizerbunny
01-08-2008, 09:58 PM
That a stretch. I like him as a prospect don't get me wrong he's a freak of an athlete, but #6 and lord knows #1 might be high for a guy who's stiff in coverage, has a frame that's beyond maxed out(steroids), and is inconsistent vs. the run. I for one like the value of DE/OLB tweeners in the 2nd, 3rd, even 4th rounds...


Steroids issue... innocent til proven guilty... just because he has a body 99% of people will never be able to achieve naturally or enhanced doesn't mean he is on steroids. Until he fails a drug test its just wrong to mention steroids and his name in the same sentence.


He is stiff in coverage because he has never really dropped until this season, I wouldn't say he is inconsistant vs the run, he plays with great leverage and takes good angles in pursuit.




At this point (early Jan) he is a much better prospect then Merriman, Ware and Wimbley.

As most of those guys were considered late 1st-2nd+ undersized DEs before they ran their 40s and worked out.


Gholston is a consensus top 20 pick before he has even ran,jumped or lifted a weight infront of pro scouts.


Physically he is impressive but you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, i've seen a bunch of guys with his size not amount to anything.

What seperates him is his quick first step, strength and speed. And his ability to simply find the quarterback.


Once he gets in the league and gets coached up a bit his true athletic ability will truely start to showcase its self, he is essentially ripping apart Otackles with a bull rush, speed rush and rip move.
He has just begun to scratch the surface.



In a weak year for top talent its not crazy at all to think he can be a top 5 pick.

gangGREENinsider
01-08-2008, 10:00 PM
His coverage will only get better, but he won't be asked to drop back into coverage all that much. Demarcus ware, Shawne merriman and Kamerion Wimbley are arguably the best OLB/DE tweeners in the league and were drafted 11th, 12th and 13th overall, respectively. I think if you want an elite one a first round gradeout is worth it, especially when OLB is a key cog in the 34 defense.

I do not beleive gholston is on steroids, but that is just my opinion. His frame also does not need to get any bigger and his smarts and love for film will overcome the fluidity of his hips.

11th, 12th, 13th...proves my point.

And knowing where a play is going is good but you also have to get there. He's a little bit of a straight line player...

Gholston's good. #6 good? I don't think so. If he does go there, it's because this draft is putrid...

dRaFtDoRk
01-08-2008, 10:01 PM
Gholston will probably end up declaring because he has been regarded really high as of late.

I think Laurinatis will stay though, he seems like a winner, but I wouldn't be shocked if he declared, it would be a good move either way.

derza222
01-08-2008, 10:03 PM
11th, 12th, 13th...proves my point.

And knowing where a play is going is good but you also have to get there. He's a little bit of a straight line player...

Gholston's good. #6 good? I don't think so. If he does go there, it's because this draft is putrid...

What those players can become pushes up the value of a guy like Gholston. They're studs or close to it and Gholston has the potential to be one of those guys. In a weak draft or not his value is going to be high. He's young, big, fast, and productive. He's a good player now and has the potential to improve considerably. I really don't think he's a reach at 6 in this draft whatsoever. Who do you think it would make more sense for the Jets to take at that spot if available?

BroadwayJoe10
01-08-2008, 10:04 PM
11th, 12th, 13th...proves my point.

And knowing where a play is going is good but you also have to get there. He's a little bit of a straight line player...

Gholston's good. #6 good? I don't think so. If he does go there, it's because this draft is putrid...

Yes, and merriman dropped because of character issues not talent. The rest of them i don't beleive are as polished as gholston, but to each their own. Also, people have been saying he may go to the dolphins or rams or even raiders, i think that speaks volumes for the draft not being putrid if he goes top 5. He is definately a top 10 talent and 6 would not be a reach at all for him.

gangGREENinsider
01-08-2008, 10:04 PM
Steroids issue... innocent til proven guilty... just because he has a body 99% of people will never be able to achieve naturally or enhanced doesn't mean he is on steroids. Until he fails a drug test its just wrong to mention steroids and his name in the same sentence.


He is stiff in coverage because he has never really dropped until this season, I wouldn't say he is inconsistant vs the run, he plays with great leverage and takes good angles in pursuit.




At this point (early Jan) he is a much better prospect then Merriman, Ware and Wimbley.

As most of those guys were considered late 1st-2nd+ undersized DEs before they ran their 40s and worked out.


Gholston is a consensus top 20 pick before he has even ran,jumped or lifted a weight infront of pro scouts.


Physically he is impressive but you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, i've seen a bunch of guys with his size not amount to anything.

What seperates him is his quick first step, strength and speed. And his ability to simply find the quarterback.


Once he gets in the league and gets coached up a bit his true athletic ability will truely start to showcase its self, he is essentially ripping apart Otackles with a bull rush, speed rush and rip move.
He has just begun to scratch the surface.



In a weak year for top talent its not crazy at all to think he can be a top 5 pick.

I could give you Wimbley and Ware because they came from smaller schools but Merriman was a freak in college as well.

"Consensus Top 20 pick before..." Right...

I'll disagree with you on him vs. the run. What I won't argue is what you said about his pass-rush abilities.

gangGREENinsider
01-08-2008, 10:10 PM
Yes, and merriman dropped because of character issues not talent. The rest of them i don't beleive are as polished as gholston, but to each their own. Also, people have been saying he may go to the dolphins or rams or even raiders, i think that speaks volumes for the draft not being putrid if he goes top 5. He is definately a top 10 talent and 6 would not be a reach at all for him.

They've- posters- have been saying that here because this site seems to love Gholston. That's cool. But I don't think he's as polished as you think or a completely well-rounded player. I think 6 is the absolute highest he can go with his value being moreso in the 8-12 range.

energizerbunny
01-08-2008, 10:16 PM
I could give you Wimbley and Ware because they came from smaller schools but Merriman was a freak in college as well.

"Consensus Top 20 pick before..." Right...

I'll disagree with you on him vs. the run. What I won't argue is what you said about his pass-rush abilities.

Merriman was far from the god your making him out to be.... potential was huge but had 8.5 sacks his last year truely was a tweener when he declared for the draft.
He was 6'4 245-249 and had minimal experience standing up. He ran a 4.66 at the combine.

I had him as a mid-late 2nd round pick when he declared, far from a sure thing.



it wasn't until he showed well in the LB drills that his stock began rising, with that came some added weight which also helped his cause. At the time Merriman declared for the draft you'd be hard pressed to find alot of people that saw him in those first 20 picks, many thought he'd be a situational pass rusher and would ONLY be a truely successful player in the 34.



Now with Gholston, you have a 6'4 270 guy who just finshed his junior year with 13 sacks and torched the consensus #1 OTackle in the draft during his matchup with him. He has shown he can play in a 43 D with no problem, holds up well gainst the run and can really get after the QB. He has also shown he has an ability to drop back in coverage and takes good angles to the ball in pursuit.


At this point in January, with Gholston you have at the very,very worst case senario a better,stronger,faster verison of Tamba Hali who went 20th to the Chiefs. Best case Senario you have the best RUSH/OLB prospect in the draft and a top 5 pick.


Oh and sinec when is Flordia State a smaller school? Wimbley was in a very similar situation to Merriman coming out and wasn't view as a first round pick when he came out either, but rather a mid-late 2nd.

gangGREENinsider
01-08-2008, 10:22 PM
Merriman was far from the god your making him out to be.... potential was huge but had 8.5 sacks his last year truely was a tweener when he declared for the draft.
He was 6'4 245-249 and had minimal experience standing up. He ran a 4.66 at the combine.

I had him as a mid-late 2nd round pick when he declared, far from a sure thing.



it wasn't until he showed well in the LB drills that his stock began rising, with that came some added weight which also helped his cause. At the time Merriman declared for the draft you'd be hard pressed to find alot of people that saw him in those first 20 picks, many thought he'd be a situational pass rusher and would ONLY be a truely successful player in the 34.



Now with Gholston, you have a 6'4 270 guy who just finshed his junior year with 13 sacks and torched the consensus #1 OTackle in the draft during his matchup with him. He has shown he can play in a 43 D with no problem, holds up well gainst the run and can really get after the QB. He has also shown he has an ability to drop back in coverage and takes good angles to the ball in pursuit.


At this point in January, with Gholston you have at the very,very worst case senario a better,stronger,faster verison of Tamba Hali who went 20th to the Chiefs. Best case Senario you have the best RUSH/OLB prospect in the draft and a top 5 pick.


Oh and sinec when is Flordia State a smaller school? Wimbley was in a very similar situation to Merriman coming out and wasn't view as a first round pick when he came out either, but rather a mid-late 2nd.

Merriman had good film at Maryland. He wreaked havoc at Maryland in different positions and techniques.

Gholston as shown the ability to drop back in coverage? Yeah, he's done it...but not well. And I stand by what I said about Gholston and being inconsistent vs. the run- in particular- getting off blocks once engaged.

And I mixed up Wimbley with Manny Lawson. Then again NC State isn't a small school but it's no where near the program OSu is...

energizerbunny
01-08-2008, 10:28 PM
Merriman had good film at Maryland. He wreaked havoc at Maryland in different positions and techniques.

Gholston as shown the ability to drop back in coverage? Yeah, he's done it...but not well. And I stand by what I said about Gholston and being inconsistent vs. the run- in particular- getting off blocks once engaged.

And I mixed up Wimbley with Manny Lawson.



Still doesn't change the fact that Merriman was no where near the prospect Gholston was at this time of year.
After the combine? maybe, but Gholston may impress alot more than Merriman and Ware did there. I don't think anyone should expect a slow 40 from GHolston, having one of the best speed coaches around in Butch Reynolds


And getting off blocks isn't as important as penetrating when playing the run, who cares if he can shed blocks downfield when he is pushing his tackle backwards during run plays?
Gholston might not be Richard Seymour when it comes to playing the run(especially from a DE standpoint) , but it is by no means a weakness for him, he is constantly holding his point.... something you cannot say about these typical so called "undersized DEs"..... Vernon is far from a 1 trick pony



Block shedding can be learned, what can't be taught is these guys who run around blocks, someone Vernon has never done. He has always stuck his nose in there!

Forenci
01-08-2008, 10:29 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised of Gholston, Lauranitis, and Jenkins will be gone this year.

Just because they say they're 'leaning away from declaring' doesn't mean much if you ask me. Guys have said they would return on numerous occasions but at the end of the day they change their minds, especially when they're a day one pick.

I just don't see either of those three returning, but hey, I could be wrong.

energizerbunny
01-08-2008, 10:35 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised of Gholston, Lauranitis, and Jenkins will be gone this year.

Just because they say they're 'leaning away from declaring' doesn't mean much if you ask me. Guys have said they would return on numerous occasions but at the end of the day they change their minds, especially when they're a day one pick.

I just don't see either of those three returning, but hey, I could be wrong.



On top of that is going to be almost impossible for them to get voted into the BCS NC again, especially after getting semi-blown out both years.
Jenkins and Gholston need to capulize while they can, The Little Animal probally should wait another year, I'd actually like to see him shifted to the outside next season to replace Larry Grant. I'm kind of under the impression that he may not be a great fit in the middle.

gangGREENinsider
01-08-2008, 10:46 PM
Still doesn't change the fact that Merriman was no where near the prospect Gholston was at this time of year.
After the combine? maybe, but Gholston may impress alot more than Merriman and Ware did there. I don't think anyone should expect a slow 40 from GHolston, having one of the best speed coaches around in Butch Reynolds


And getting off blocks isn't as important as penetrating when playing the run, who cares if he can shed blocks downfield when he is pushing his tackle backwards during run plays?
Gholston might not be Richard Seymour when it comes to playing the run(especially from a DE standpoint) , but it is by no means a weakness for him, he is constantly holding his point.... something you cannot say about these typical so called "undersized DEs"..... Vernon is far from a 1 trick pony



Block shedding can be learned, what can't be taught is these guys who run around blocks, someone Vernon has never done. He has always stuck his nose in there!

Getting off blocks is important wherever you play on defense- especially in the front 7. I never said Gholston was inept vs. the run. If I believed that, I wouldn't value him in the 8-12 range and would instead stick him in the 2nd round like my one-trick-pony friend Quentin Groves. Shedding blocks absolutely can be learned. Gholston will make fantastic plays vs. the run- but he can also get stood up and will have some plays go through his gaps because he sometimes won't get off blocks. Picky? Yes. When a team like the Jets are picking hat high and making such a heavy investment, you can bet I'm going to be picky. I wouldn't be upset with the Gholston pick and he very well could justify the slot, but the #1 talk in particular seems ludicrous to me.

As for going pro, yeah Gholston should go. Jenkins, I guess- but I like him a helluva lot more at FS. Little Animal could go and be top 15, but he as well has work to do in taking on and getting off blocks and in pass coverage. Great player, but AJ Hawk he is not...at least not yet.

energizerbunny
01-08-2008, 10:52 PM
Lauranitus is actually the hardest one to get a read on... the other two will be somewhere in that first round.... but with James its hard because LBs stock can raise and fall so much between now and the April draft. There are so many things they can get picked apart on that if one weakness is big enough your going to fall down alot of boards.


And alot of the time i've seen the ball ran through Gholstons gap is when he is either a) bull rushed the OTackle back and then the RB just cuts it through the huge vacant gap, when he should have support from the LB but doesn't.....

or when in some situations when he is palying with a good blocking TE on his side and he is forced to play in small quarters. This shouldn't be a huge negative because 90% of DEs would have a large amount of difficultly being successful in this situation.

BroadwayJoe10
01-08-2008, 10:53 PM
Getting off blocks is important wherever you play on defense- especially in the front 7. I never said Gholston was inept vs. the run. If I believed that, I wouldn't value him in the 8-12 range and would instead stick him in the 2nd round like my one-trick-pony friend Quentin Groves. Shedding blocks absolutely can be learned. Gholston will make fantastic plays vs. the run- but he can also get stood up and will have some plays go through his gaps because he sometimes won't get off blocks. Picky? Yes. When a team like the Jets are picking hat high and making such a heavy investment, you can bet I'm going to be picky. I wouldn't be upset with the Gholston pick and he very well could justify the slot, but the #1 talk in particular seems ludicrous to me.

As for going pro, yeah Gholston should go. Jenkins, I guess- but I like him a helluva lot more at FS. Little Animal could go and be top 15, but he as well has work to do in taking on and getting off blocks and in pass coverage. Great player, but AJ Hawk he is not...at least not yet.


I'll agree with you that I do beleive the talk of him going #1 overall is a bit of a reach and stems from peoples enfatuation with physical freaks (which is warranted becuase he has the production to match his measurable) and may not necessarily reflect the thought base of the team itself, but since this is a draft site and not the real nfl gm's talking there will always be speculation like this. I have listened to a lot of the arguments for gholston going #1 overall and anywhere in the top 6 and i have been convinced from most of the arguments. I am quite interested to see what type of info scott has to what teams are showing the most interest in him.

Saints67
01-08-2008, 11:43 PM
Don't know how reliable these guys are BUT...

they've reported that Gholston, Laurinaitis, and Jenkins will declare sometime. They also predicted the Chung declaring, so as Clady, Brandon Flowers, and etc.



"Rumor I received today in my inbox is that for sure, Jenkins, Laurinaitis, and Gholston are in."

http://www.newerascouting.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1418&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120

post #11.

thebow305
01-08-2008, 11:47 PM
Im just asking cause I dont wanna see the Pats end up with either one of these guys. Personally I think this is the pick that should have been taken away from them rather then their own 1st rounder. If either one of them stays that lessens the chance the Pats land one of them.

Couldn't agree more. But don't worry, Gholston won't get past us at number one anyway. :)

thebow305
01-08-2008, 11:52 PM
11th, 12th, 13th...proves my point.

And knowing where a play is going is good but you also have to get there. He's a little bit of a straight line player...

Gholston's good. #6 good? I don't think so. If he does go there, it's because this draft is putrid...

Not worth # 6?? Are You serious!?

Who is this guy!?

Handel
01-09-2008, 01:09 AM
Im just asking cause I dont wanna see the Pats end up with either one of these guys. Personally I think this is the pick that should have been taken away from them rather then their own 1st rounder. If either one of them stays that lessens the chance the Pats land one of them.

Under Belichick and Pioli, no linebacker was drafted during day one.