Best Player To Not Go To A Pro Bowl

[TimD]

Well now that Fred Taylor has made it, as a reserve, who is the best player to not go to a pro bowl?

[Jughead10]

Did Mario Williams end up making it? I forget. If he didn't, it is him.

[zCaddyz]

Tim couch..

[Sveen]

Did Mario Williams end up making it? I forget. If he didn't, it is him.
He didn't make it, but I think TimDris meant all time (not just this year).

[tylerb929]

Dallas Clark

[Shane P. Hallam]

How about Antoine Winfield? If we are talking about current players never making it, he's been a pretty good, though unique, corner.

[Willy-Tstr8UpG]

Ooops - Ignore. Forgot Al Harris finally made it this year (justice)

[Shane P. Hallam]

Al Harris is going this year...

[GermanSaint]

mike mckenzie comes to my mind , he should have gone at least the last to years

[JagHombre22]

Mike Peterson

[Tubby]

Josh Brown

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

Nnamdi Asomugha.

[JF4]

Kellen Winslow Jr.
Charles Woodson
Adalius Thomas
Nick Barnett
Chad Johnson
Rashean Mathis
John Henderson
DJ Williams
Just some off the top of my head.

[Gay Ork Wang]

Charles Tillman (i know homeristic)

[tylerb929]

Kellen Winslow Jr.
Charles Woodson
Adalius Thomas
Nick Barnett
Chad Johnson
Rashean Mathis
John Henderson
DJ Williams
Just some off the top of my head.

Half those people have gone before, I think he means in their career, not just this year.

[princefielder28]

mike mckenzie comes to my mind , he should have gone at least the last to years

Mike McKenzie sucks. This guy falls behind in coverage and then intercepts under thrown passes.

[GermanSaint]

Mike McKenzie sucks. This guy falls behind in coverage and then intercepts under thrown passes.

with green bay ? otherwise i noticed you have no idea and with his 3-4 INT it can´t be this often either ....

[princefielder28]

with green bay ? otherwise i noticed you have no idea and with his 3-4 INT it can´t be this often either ....

du sollst nicht sprechen

[GermanSaint]

du sollst nicht sprechen

makes no sense


but now i know it was just a troll post.

[gsorace]

Nnamdi Asomugha.

Wasn't he invited last year because somebody was injured, but was unable to go because he was also injured?

[princefielder28]

makes no sense


but now i know it was just a troll post.

If you honestly think Mike McKenzie deserves to be a Pro-Bowler then you don't watch enough football........there's a handful of corners in the NFC North alone that deserve to be in Hawaii before him

[GermanSaint]

If you honestly think Mike McKenzie deserves to be a Pro-Bowler then you don't watch enough football........there's a handful of corners in the NFC North alone that deserve to be in Hawaii before him


link ?

or another question : did you see ONE saints game in the last two seasons ?
i´m wondering how you can be this ignorant ? but maybe you are right , since the pro bowl is first for names than for stats , at third for performance.

two touchdown given up , the first was in week 13 or 14 , two pick six , good games against steve smith , shut down against the most others..... i dont now , where you will find 5 BETTER corners in the NFC north , but if you WILL find them ( i know its all subjective ) than they have to be real good , or it isnt the worst thing to be the 6th best corner in the nfc

[princefielder28]

link ?

or another question : did you see ONE saints game in the last two seasons ?
i´m wondering how you can be this ignorant ? but maybe you are right , since the pro bowl is first for names than for stats , at third for performance.

two touchdown given up , the first was in week 13 or 14 , two pick six , good games against steve smith , shut down against the most others..... i dont now , where you will find 5 BETTER corners in the NFC north , but if you WILL find them ( i know its all subjective ) than they have to be real good , or it isnt the worst thing to be the 6th best corner in the nfc

The interception against Tampa was in zone coverage and Luke McCown did not recognize that and he threw it right to McKenzie and against Jacksonville the receiver ran his out and gotr McKenzie's hips turned and the pass was thrown so poorly that the QB gave Mike a chance at the ball. McKenzie is a decent player and maybe as a Packer he may have deserved to go or his in '05 but his performance this season doesn't warrant a Pro Bowl selection.

Better corners in the NFC North: Charles Woodson, Al Harris, Antoine Winfield, Charles Tillman
Other corners in the NFC that are better: Terrence Newman, Lito Shepard, DeAngelo Hall, Nate Clements, Marcus Trufant

May be even missing some names

[GermanSaint]

Better corners in the NFC North: Charles Woodson, Al Harris, Antoine Winfield, Charles Tillman
Other corners in the NFC that are better: Terrence Newman, Lito Shepard, DeAngelo Hall, Nate Clements, Marcus Trufant

May be even missing some names



so you saw one play ? and because mccown didnt make a good throw , mckenzie didnt deserve the pro bowl ?

al harris hasnt a good year , there are much packers fans pointing it out ,too.
winfield has normally many completitions , tillman is a good zoneman , but i couldnt clearly put him above mckenzie.

clements isnt better ( especially with this amount of money ), trufant is a gambler ( who often gets "rescued" by his safety play. ) so is hall . newman is good and didnt get tested very often ( like mckenzie )

shephard is the reason , many eagles fans want to see a new CB in the draft.

just for the low completition rate against mckenzie he should get a mention :


yards per pass includes all passes where this defensive back is listed as the defender, not just completions. Remember, these are not adjusted for opponent or which defensive back had to cover the other team’s star receiver more often.


Charles Woodson, GB: 70%
Roderick Hood, ARI: 66%
Fakhir Brown, STL: 65%
Mike McKenzie, NO: 64%
Anthony Henry, DAL: 63%
Jabari Greer, BUF: 63%
Dunta Robinson, HOU: 63%
Richard Marshall, CAR: 63%
Champ Bailey, DEN: 63%
Will Allen, MIA: 62%
Asante Samuel, NE: 62%
Ty Law, KC: 60%
Terrence McGee, BUF: 60%


Best Yards per Pass

Roderick Hood, ARI: 4.3
Asante Samuel, NE: 4.5
Will Allen, MIA: 4.5
Terrence Newman, DAL: 4.7
Jabari Greer, BUF: 5.0
Terrence McGee, BUF: 5.0
Mike McKenzie, NO: 5.5
Tye Hill, STL: 5.8
Jason Craft, NO: 5.9
Anthony Henry, DAL: 6.0
Deshea Townsend, PIT: 6.0
Jarrod Bush, GB: 6.0


you see , mckenzie is there two times in the top ten. only two of yours are listed that high , too. newman and woodson.

NOW the worst :

Worst Success Rate

Jason David, NO: 32%
Stanley Wilson, DET: 36%
Johnathan Joseph, CIN: 39%
Leon Hall, CIN: 40%
Drayton Florence, SD: 41%
Marlin Jackson, IND: 41%
Lito Sheppard, PHI: 41%
Roy Williams, DAL: 41%
Eric Green, ARI: 42%
Darrelle Revis, NYJ: 42%
Atari Bigby, GB: 42%

here is your fellow lito shephard.

and now :

Worst Yards per Pass
Jason David, NO: 14.5
Hole in Zone, 11.9

Michael Huff, OAK: 10.8
Stanley Wilson, DET: 10.7
Drayton Florence, SD: 10.6
Corey Ivy, BAL: 10.0
Leon Hall, CIN: 9.6
Patrick Surtain, KC: 9.3
David Barrett, NYJ: 9.1
Cedric Griffin, MIN: 9.0
Al Harris, GB: 8.8

here is your homey al harris ....


i see you have a point....

its all about names ;)

and now :

Küss meinen Deutschen Arsch

http://www.football-crazy.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/arsch.jpg

[Shane P. Hallam]

Well this doesn't seem to be going in the right direction.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

clements isnt better ( especially with this amount of money ), trufant is a gambler ( who often gets "rescued" by his safety play. ) so is hall . newman is good and didnt get tested very often ( like mckenzie )

shephard is the reason , many eagles fans want to see a new CB in the draft.


Salary shouldn't make any difference on whether a guys play gets him in the pro bowl. Trufant and Hall played well this year. I'm sure saftey help is part of a scheme and lets them leave for help by design, not sure what your getting at there. Newman doesn't get tested much because of his coverage, unlike Mckenzie, where they can just throw on Jason 'i sux hard' David all day long.

Pretty sure Shephard's injury history and durability are a major reason that Eagles fans would like more depth at CB, moreso than they just think he sux

I'm not saying that McKenzie isn't a good player, but you fail to look into are explain further any of your points that you used to bring down other players.

It might be worth noting the absolute crap that plays in the division with the saints and the lackluster QB play/passing game play that took place also. You failed to mention that top QBs Vinny, Matt Moore, Garcia (actually a solid guy, but not a major threat to really "kill" you), McCown, Harrington, and Redman, are guys that McKenzie got to go against this season. At least other teams in the division had to go against Brees, who is a huge upgrade over the others. Just thought i'd point that out.

[Jughead10]

It might be worth noting the absolute crap that plays in the division with the saints and the lackluster QB play/passing game play that took place also. You failed to mention that top QBs Vinny, Matt Moore, Garcia (actually a solid guy, but not a major threat to really "kill" you), McCown, Harrington, and Redman, are guys that McKenzie got to go against this season. At least other teams in the division had to go against Brees, who is a huge upgrade over the others. Just thought i'd point that out.

Thats a great point. A lot of corners can look good against Steve Smith when he has Carr, Vinny, and Moore throwing him the ball.

[Shane P. Hallam]

No one else will agree with Winfield?

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Thats a great point. A lot of corners can look good against Steve Smith when he has Carr, Vinny, and Moore throwing him the ball.

i forgot to mention the super terrific David Carr. He's a super stud also.


I'll agree with Winfield. Really an undervalued and underappreciated player who can cover and is one of the best, if not the best, tackling CB. Pound for pound i'd say he's the best tackler in the league.

[GermanSaint]

I'm not saying that McKenzie isn't a good player, but you fail to look into are explain further any of your points that you used to bring down other players.



i posted the successrating on page 1 ... it isnt about putting down other players , but mike mckenzie had a very good year covering his side and that without good safety help and without passrush..... for my understanding it is a great performance for a guy with his ages. the two pick 6´s are bonus , but you first have to do it.

and the list i posted had only newman and woodson in the positive standings. al harris and lito are in the bottom of the league in catches allowed and yards per catch allowed. i find it more significant than INT

[Flyboy]

I find it humorous that princefielder is dissing Mike McKenzie. Could be that he's an ex-Packer and was labeled as a malcontent by Packer fans, he gets traded and has done extremely well for us without any sort of lockerroom drama. If you don't think Mike McKenzie has played well this season (or deserves to be in the Pro Bowl) then either A) you're being biased because there are still hard feelings for McKenzie leaving B) you didn't watch enough Saints games and have no idea what you're talking about or it could be a combination of both. McKenzie has been outstanding in coverage this season for us which says a lot due to our pisspoor secondary. Teams passed on Jason David at will and that could have been a factor but it doesn't take away the fact that McKenzie played on a Pro Bowl level this year only giving up two TDs the entire season before he got injured (one to Roddy White and one to Larry Fitzgerald). Hell, he's been a top three CB in the NFC this season... DeAngelo Hall & Marcus Trufant are who I would rank ahead of him.

Anyhow, my vote went to Marques Colston. Beasty beast.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

For the record i'm not dissing Mckenzie, he deserves recognition in this thread. He played well this year, and th fact that Jason David being constantly abused shouldn't greatly bring down his value, but it does play a major factor. That plus the fact that teams could also run on the Saints D.

I'd still lean towards Winfield over Mckenzie personally. Just preference.

[Flyboy]

For the record i'm not dissing Mckenzie, he deserves recognition in this thread. He played well this year, and th fact that Jason David being constantly abused shouldn't greatly bring down his value, but it does play a major factor. That plus the fact that teams could also run on the Saints D.

Actually, after the first game against the Colts our run defense was actually a bright spot for our defense. We went a number of games without allowing 100 yards on the ground (the most impressive being the JAX game imo). And, while Jason David sucked donkey balls he did miss 3-4 weeks with a broken forearm this season.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Actually, after the first game against the Colts our run defense was actually a bright spot for our defense. We went a number of games without allowing 100 yards on the ground (the most impressive being the JAX game imo). And, while Jason David sucked donkey balls he did miss 3-4 weeks with a broken forearm this season.

probably why you were able to go on a little streak to almost make the playoffs

[Flyboy]

probably why you were able to go on a little streak to almost make the playoffs

Eh. That's up to debate. As bad as our defense was, there were games were the offense (most notably the offensive line) did not show up at all. If anything, I'd say it was 60/40 this season.

[Ewing]

Ryan Leaf.

[Ness]

A couple years ago when Tony Parrish was a very good safety, he should have been there.

[Ness]

I find it humorous that princefielder is dissing Mike McKenzie. Could be that he's an ex-Packer and was labeled as a malcontent by Packer fans, he gets traded and has done extremely well for us without any sort of lockerroom drama. If you don't think Mike McKenzie has played well this season (or deserves to be in the Pro Bowl) then either A) you're being biased because there are still hard feelings for McKenzie leaving B) you didn't watch enough Saints games and have no idea what you're talking about or it could be a combination of both. McKenzie has been outstanding in coverage this season for us which says a lot due to our pisspoor secondary. Teams passed on Jason David at will and that could have been a factor but it doesn't take away the fact that McKenzie played on a Pro Bowl level this year only giving up two TDs the entire season before he got injured (one to Roddy White and one to Larry Fitzgerald). Hell, he's been a top three CB in the NFC this season... DeAngelo Hall & Marcus Trufant are who I would rank ahead of him.

Anyhow, my vote went to Marques Colston. Beasty beast.
DeAngelo Hall? Why would you say that? If I'm not mistaken, he usually get toasted by a lot of wide receivers. Great athleticism, but poor instincts.

[skinzzfan25]

London Fletcher.

7 straight seasons of 16 game starts. 115+ tackles per year.

Usually doesn't have Probowler stats for MLB, but is by far one of the most consistent guys out there. He's always in the top 5 as of tackles. Although some of his years defintatly make a good case. He probably would have made it this year if Tatupu didn't have that monster game.

[Flyboy]

DeAngelo Hall? Why would you say that? If I'm not mistaken, he usually get toasted by a lot of wide receivers. Great athleticism, but poor instincts.

DeAngelo Hall was the epitome of "shutdown corner" (even though there really isn't a such thing these days) this past season. He was playing on a completely different level.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

DeAngelo Hall was the epitome of "shutdown corner" (even though there really isn't a such thing these days) this past season. He was playing on a completely different level.


I have to agree. Him and Nnamdi were the only 2 "shutdown" corners this year.

[Shiver]

DeAngelo Hall? Why would you say that? If I'm not mistaken, he usually get toasted by a lot of wide receivers. Great athleticism, but poor instincts.

You are very, very mistaken. He got beat for a TD once all year, and that was by Joey Galloway.

As for this question: I think Mario Williams is the biggest snub. He got a vote for DPotY and isn't even going to the pro-bowl. Nnamdi Asomugha was a big snub, but the AFC is stacked at cornerback.

[RaiderNation]

Nnamdi Asomugha

[SuperMcgee]

No one else will agree with Winfield?

I absolutely would

Fletcher and Kerry Rhodes probably both deserve to go at some point, but they play at stacked positions. Still, they fit the thread

Eric Steinbach is one, as well.

[DiG]

C to the P to the 26!

He ran for 1262 (6th in the NFL) and 11 tds (4th in the NFL) and he did it behind what I would consider a top 5 worst offensive line in the nfl this year with injuries and the guys that had to step in.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Nnamdi Asomugha
Antoine Winfield
Kerry Rhodes

They've played at high levels for multiple years. Mario Williams has only had one good year so i won't put him in the regular snub category just yet

[scottyboy]

Kerry Rhodes and Chris Snee jump to mind

[T-RICH49]

Nnamdi Asamugha

[bored of education]

Clinton Portis has never been to a Pro Bowl? With yardages over his career (1508, 1591, 1315, 1516, 1262) in his 5 healthy seasons is nuts. The guy will have 10k by the age of 28, and could break 100 TDS. Another 4 solid years of 1000 plus would put him over 11000. The guy has been nasty his whole career. Sometimes behind crappy lines or some inconsistancies, but the dude is a plain beast!

[Shiver]

Clinton Portis has never been to a Pro Bowl? With yardages over his career (1508, 1591, 1315, 1516, 1262) in his 5 healthy seasons is nuts. The guy will have 10k by the age of 28, and could break 100 TDS. Another 4 solid years of 1000 plus would put him over 11000. The guy has been nasty his whole career. Sometimes behind crappy lines or some inconsistancies, but the dude is a plain beast!

What gave you that impression? Speaking of which: he made the pro-bowl in 2003 over LaDainian Tomlinson, that happened to be the biggest pro-bowl travesty I can remember.

[bored of education]

Someone said Clinton Portis wasn't in it.

[Yung Flippa]

Nick Barnett, Haloti Ngata, & most deserving Mario Williams!!!!!

[Bills2083]

Angelo Crowell, because he has been playing really well for us, especially this year.
He should've been elected over a few other players this year.

[d34ng3l021]

Michael Boley.

Hands down.

[luckyjackaubrey]

One Wes Welker.

[Woody56]

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/10/08/gal_nfl_1.jpg

[bored of education]

I thought this was about active players all time. Not one year wonders!

[afftbl10]

joe thomas for this year

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

What gave you that impression? Speaking of which: he made the pro-bowl in 2003 over LaDainian Tomlinson, that happened to be the biggest pro-bowl travesty I can remember.

i was just going to mention that. The year LT didn't make it after being the first player to have over 1000 rushing yards, and 100 catches in a season. It was Portis, Jamal Lewis, and i can't remember the other player who made it over him. Who was the 3rd RB??

[Shiver]

i was just going to mention that. The year LT didn't make it after being the first player to have over 1000 rushing yards, and 100 catches in a season. It was Portis, Jamal Lewis, and i can't remember the other player who made it over him. Who was the 3rd RB??


Priest Holmes broke the TD record, Jamal Lewis went for 2,000 yards, so they both were justified. But Portis has less yards, less touchdowns, and about 70 less catches, while he played with the Broncos' O-Line and L.T played on a terrible Chargers team.

[P-L]

I think it's Nnamdi Asomugha, easily.

[bearsfan_51]

I'll be a homer and say Charles Tillman. I'm sure there are others more deserving, but Tillman should get in at some point.

[Ness]

DeAngelo Hall was the epitome of "shutdown corner" (even though there really isn't a such thing these days) this past season. He was playing on a completely different level.

This past season? I admit I didn't really watch him this past season, but other than this year (since I don't know how he's performance has been) he's been very overrated in my opinion and not worth the spot he was drafted in.

[detap21]

Ernie Sims. He is the only Detroit Lion that was deserving of the Pro Bowl.

[7-11]

This past season? I admit I didn't really watch him this past season, but other than this year (since I don't know how he's performance has been) he's been very overrated in my opinion and not worth the spot he was drafted in.

That might be your problem, he stepped it up bigtime this year and his play nearly caught up with his mouth...nearly.

[yourfavestoner]

Ernie Sims. He is the only Detroit Lion that was deserving of the Pro Bowl.

I dunno...I watched a decent amount of Lions games this year and it seemed like Sims was just as much as a problem as anybody else on their defense. Sure, he racked up a lot of tackles, but a lot of them were 6, 7, 8 yards downfield. Also, I can't count how many times I watched himself overrun in pursuit, leaving huge cutback lanes.

The most important responsibility a WLB has is staying disciplined against the run and filling cutback lanes. When you have that fast, athletic WLB that all Cover Two teams need, it usually takes awhile before they develop the discipline to not run themselves out of the play. Even Derrick Brooks had problems with this early in his career.

[jbeans187]

joe thomas for this year

Fred Taylor???....Nevermind, he's finally going. Joe Thomas is too, he's replacing Jason Peters

[The Legend]

Derrick Brooks & Brain Dawkins :(

[detap21]

I dunno...I watched a decent amount of Lions games this year and it seemed like Sims was just as much as a problem as anybody else on their defense. Sure, he racked up a lot of tackles, but a lot of them were 6, 7, 8 yards downfield. Also, I can't count how many times I watched himself overrun in pursuit, leaving huge cutback lanes.

The most important responsibility a WLB has is staying disciplined against the run and filling cutback lanes. When you have that fast, athletic WLB that all Cover Two teams need, it usually takes awhile before they develop the discipline to not run themselves out of the play. Even Derrick Brooks had problems with this early in his career.

I agree. He does need to work on his play, I think that he is progressing quite well. I still think that he should be in the pro bowl. Him and Dewayne White are our only bright spots on defense.

[yo123]

Derrick Brooks & Brain Dawkins :(



They have both made it.

[Mr. Stiller]

Did Nick Barnett get an invite? If not he's my guy. Even over Patrick Willis.

[Rich Jr]

Mike McKenzie sucks. This guy falls behind in coverage and then intercepts under thrown passes.2 TD's thrown on him all year. 1 he had no safety help.

Both came in the last 2 games of the year too I believe.

[Shiver]

2 TD's thrown on him all year. 1 he had no safety help.

Both came in the last 2 games of the year too I believe.

All I know is my boy Roddy White was one of those. He should have made it to the pro-bowl over Holt and Driver. :rolleyes:

Roddy White and Michael Boley had better make it next year or I will be furious. I don't have a lot to be positive about regarding the Falcons; except for a handful of players, those aforementioned players in particular.

[Flyboy]

2 TD's thrown on him all year. 1 he had no safety help.

Both came in the last 2 games of the year too I believe.

One was against the Falcons (Roddy White) and the other was against the Cardinals (Larry Fitzgerald).

He should have made it to the pro-bowl over Holt and Driver.

Marques Colston should have made it over both and Roddy White. :)

[Shiver]

Colston had Brees' throwing him the football, who did Roddy White have? Exactly...

[Addict]

Edit: this post made no sense.

[jetsfan0099]

Kerry Rhodes!! Best player to get robbed 2 years in a row!! #25 is one of the best safetys in football!! Top 5!!

[neko4]

Michael Huff, OAK: 10.8
Stanley Wilson, DET: 10.7
Drayton Florence, SD: 10.6
Corey Ivy, BAL: 10.0
Leon Hall, CIN: 9.6
Patrick Surtain, KC: 9.3
David Barrett, NYJ: 9.1
Cedric Griffin, MIN: 9.0
Al Harris, GB: 8.8

here is your homey al harris ....




Does this point out how many catches he gve up? Its like saying a Quarterback has a 25 YPA when he only completed one pass.

[GermanSaint]

Colston had Brees' throwing him the football, who did Roddy White have? Exactly...


so that seemed to be not enough for devery henderson , who is leading the drops in nfl with only about 35 passes caught. QBs is a factor , but catching it is the first step to get the 1000


Does this point out how many catches he gve up? Its like saying a Quarterback has a 25 YPA when he only completed one pass.

i think they had a minimum of passes throwed in the CBs direction , otherwise i would agree , but i think they are all starters , at least nickelbacks , so i highly doubt that there is someone who gave up only one pass for ten yards.

[Thunder&Lightning]

Dallas Clark

I would have to 2nd that

[KCJ58]

Fred Savage

[iloxygenil]

Deangelo Hall

[Patriots16-0]

Laurence Maroney.

[KCJ58]

Laurence Maroney.

you can't be serious can you?

[Gi-15]

Mark Tauscher, his play during the season made me believed he deserved it, his play right now in the playoff convinced me.

[bored of education]

Laurence Maroney.

Jamal Lewis, Thoams Jones, Marshawn Lynch, Willis McGahee, Justin Fargas all had better years on shittier teams. Anyone can rush for 100 yards playing teams that keep 6 players in the box

[giver17]

du sollst nicht sprechen

it is german, and is mean " you should not speak". he is saying you have no idea what you are talking about

[Toneloc498]

Amani Toomer has never been there and he has had a pretty damn good career, not saying he deserved it this year because he didnt

[The Legend]

Derrick Brooks

[Dam8610]

Derrick Brooks

This is best player to go to 0 Pro Bowls, not 10.