All-Pro team

[KILLERSANTA]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3188207

NEW YORK -- LaDainian Tomlinson and Randy Moss were unanimous selections to The Associated Press 2007 NFL All-Pro team on Wednesday. So was Tom Brady -- sort of.

The league's Most Valuable Player and Offensive Player of the Year was chosen on each of the ballots from 50 media members who regularly cover the NFL. One voter, however, split the vote at quarterback between Brady and Green Bay's Brett Favre.

Still, Brady was a runaway choice at the position, and was joined by four other unbeaten Patriots on the squad: Moss, tackle Matt Light, cornerback Asante Samuel and outside linebacker Mike Vrabel.

All but Moss made the All-Pro team for the first time; Moss was chosen as a Minnesota Viking in 1998, 2000 and 2003.

"Every week, we come in here on Monday and you win and everybody's excited, the plane flights home are great," Brady said, referring to what has been a historic season so far for the 16-0 Patriots. "It's been a lot of fun. To see what we've accomplished thus far is great. At the same time we realize that, as coach put it, there's another mountain to climb."

Easily scaling the All-Pro mountain were Tomlinson for the third time, and Moss. Joining Tomlinson, the league's leading rusher, were fellow Chargers Lorenzo Neal, who clears many of LT's paths from his fullback spot, and cornerback Antonio Cromartie.

Cromartie's breakthrough season saw him lead the NFL with 10 interceptions.

"I should have had 13," he said. "This year, I think I proved a lot of people wrong, with everybody saying how my knee injury was going to affect me. I mean, I'm two years off of it. My biggest thing was proving everybody wrong."

Also with three players on the team were Dallas and Seattle. The Cowboys had linebacker DeMarcus Ware, tight end Jason Witten and wide receiver Terrell Owens; Ware and Witten were first-timers, Owens also was selected in 2000, '01 and '02 with San Francisco, and 2004 with Philadelphia.

"Any time you can be the best in the entire league, that's always a special moment," said Witten, who had 96 receptions and seven touchdowns this season. "There's a lot of great tight ends out there, so to be on the top of that list is nice."

The Seahawks had tackle Walter Jones, defensive end Patrick Kerney and linebacker Lofa Tatupu. Jones previously made All-Pro in 2001, '04 and '05; the others Seahawks were first-timers.

Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren called Tatupu's three-interception day in a win at Philadelphia on Dec. 2 "one of the great games I've ever seen a linebacker have."

"Everybody has been instrumental in everything that I've been able to do," Tatupu said. "The D-line has been enabling me to get sacks, DBs staying on their guys so we can get back there and get sacks, or getting interceptions."

Joining Brady, Tomlinson and Neal in the backfield was Philadelphia's Brian Westbrook, who led the league in total yards from scrimmage with 2,104.

The rest of the offense had Minnesota guard Steve Hutchinson, Pittsburgh guard Alan Faneca, and Indianapolis center Jeff Saturday.

The other All-Pros on defense were Kansas City end Jared Allen, the league sacks leader with 15½; Minnesota tackle Kevin Williams and Tennessee tackle Albert Haynesworth; San Francisco inside linebacker Patrick Willis, the only rookie on the squad; Indianapolis safety Bob Sanders, the Defensive Player of the Year; and Baltimore safety Ed Reed, making it for the third time.

The special teams players were Titans kicker Rob Bironas and 49ers punter Andy Lee, both newcomers to the squad, and record-setting kick returner Devin Hester of Chicago, who also made it as a rookie in 2006.

"It's been an incredible journey," said Bironas, who also played in the Arena Football League and arenafootball2 before making good with the Titans. "I didn't have any doubt in myself when I got started on this journey in high school. That was my dream to play in the pros, and I just kept pursuing it. I wanted to be one of the better kickers in the NFL, and this year I was able to do that."

In all, 15 AFC players and 12 from the NFC were chosen as All-Pros.

No one needs to be shot.................. :)

[Ewing]

****! You beat me by two minutes.

[KILLERSANTA]

****! You beat me by two minutes.

I'm quick, Ask your mom..............

[Ewing]

I'm quick, Ask your mom..............

That's not funny, my mom's a hermaphrodite.

[DaBear89]

yay, now if only the writers would do the pro bowl everything in the world would be ok

[sup3rdup3r]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa boiiiii, Patrick Willis = DROY, Pro Bowler and now an All-Pro. Nice start to a career eh?

[gsorace]

Alan Faneca isn't that good anymore

[Jvig43]

espically after all willis has been through def. really nice interview with him on espn yesterday.

[Go_Eagles77]

Westbrook definitely deserved it. Just ask Michael Strahan. :)

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d805c861a

[fenikz]

Dockett > Haynesworth & Williams

58 Tackles, 9 Sacks, 7 TFL, 2 FF

vs

40 Tackles, 6 Sacks, 8 TFL, 0 FF

&

38 Tackles, 3 Sacks, 5 TFL, 0 FF, 2 INT, 2 TD

[terribletowel39]

Dockett > Haynesworth & Williams

58 Tackles, 9 Sacks, 7 TFL, 2 FF

vs

40 Tackles, 6 Sacks, 8 TFL, 0 FF

&

38 Tackles, 3 Sacks, 5 TFL, 0 FF, 2 INT, 2 TD
congratulations you succeeded on posting something most would consider special ed.

[Ewing]

Dockett > Haynesworth & Williams

58 Tackles, 9 Sacks, 7 TFL, 2 FF

vs

40 Tackles, 6 Sacks, 8 TFL, 0 FF

&

38 Tackles, 3 Sacks, 5 TFL, 0 FF, 2 INT, 2 TD

Haynesworth was the best defensive tackle in football this season. Ask anyone on here that isn't a Cardinals fan.

[KILLERSANTA]

Haynesworth was the best defensive tackle in football this season. Ask anyone on here that isn't a Cardinals fan.

Ewing is right.....................His mom really is a hermaphrodite.

[DHVF]

Dockett > Haynesworth & Williams

58 Tackles, 9 Sacks, 7 TFL, 2 FF

vs

40 Tackles, 6 Sacks, 8 TFL, 0 FF

&

38 Tackles, 3 Sacks, 5 TFL, 0 FF, 2 INT, 2 TD
Do u even watch the games these stats are achieved in or do you simply search up on ESPN to who got what? I'm gonna guess the latter is true.

[Nitschke-Hawk]

Dockett is the third best DT in the NFL this year, unfortunately that doesn't get you on this list. He should be starting in the Pro Bowl though.

[DHVF]

Dockett is the third best DT in the NFL this year, unfortunately that doesn't get you on this list. He should be starting in the Pro Bowl though.
I honestly agree that he should be starting over Pat Williams, as I honestly wasn't even sure that his performance warranted a pro bowl selection at all, much less a starting spot. Realistically though, I do not think you would want to start two guys that play as similar of games at defensive tackle like Dockett and K-Williams do together.

[Go_Eagles77]

Didn't Dockett also play a lot of DE? That should contribute to those stats.

[T-RICH49]

finally Jared Allen gets some recognition

[Splat]

Pretty good list can't really say any thing bad.

[d34ng3l021]

Nice to see Nnamdi and DeAngelo snubbed.

I dont see how Bailey deserves to be on that list because of this season.

Patrick Willis doesnt deserve an All-Pro.

Everything else is okay.

[Burns336]

I'm actually surprised Witten got the nod, I was almost sure he would be snubbed.

[Burns336]

Nice to see Nnamdi and DeAngelo snubbed.

I dont see how Bailey deserves to be on that list because of this season.

Patrick Willis doesnt deserve an All-Pro.

Everything else is okay.

Cromartie and Samuel's playmaking ability is hard to ignore...

CB's are really tough, it depends on what you value.

[T-RICH49]

Patrick Willis doesnt deserve an All-Pro.
.


Blasphemy.Rookie or not Willis' stats prove he deserve the nod

[Vikes99ej]

Glad to see Kevin on there.

[GB12]

Blasphemy.Rookie or not Willis' stats prove he deserve the nod
I'd agree. He doesn't deserve All pro or probowl. There are at least 3 NFC linebackers who should be there ahead of him.

[Shiver]

The amazing thing about Antonio Cromartie is that not only did he get ten interceptions, but the Chargers were the best team against #2 receivers, which is who Cromartie was generally matched up against.

[Ewing]

I'd agree. He doesn't deserve All pro or probowl. There are at least 3 NFC linebackers who should be there ahead of him.

Who? The only guys I can think of would be Tatupu and Urlacher.

[7-11]

Only one i really have an issue with is Matt Light, other than that it's pretty solid

[jetsfan0099]

The Jets have 0 all pros.. We stink.. Though I am hopeful that we have a few future all pros in Nick Mangold, Kerry Rhodes, Darrelle Revis, David Harris. Jonathan Vilma was one.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

Samuel and Cro over Nnamdi and DeAngelo doesn't make much sense to me.

[JagHombre22]

the jaguars didn't have any all pros either...don't feel bad....

[xooberon]

Who? The only guys I can think of would be Tatupu and Urlacher.

nick barnett, e.j. henderson, barrett ruud

[DMWSackMachine]

Pretty solid in most respects. I disagree with Cromartie, just because I doubt his coverage was as good as his playmaking, although I concede that I haven't watched a ton of Chargers games this year, like I have in the past.

I disagree with Faneca, mainly because even Steeler fans have complained about him not playing up to par this year, and I have personally witnessed the absolute domination that Leonard Davis has imposed this year, along with the fantastic play (like usual....when healthy) of Shawn Andrews, plus Steinbach's great season, and that doesn't even count what Evans has done, though that is mainly hearsay. Haven't really noticed him myself. Its been a very strong year for guards, and Faneca's worst season in year's doesn't qualify him, imo.

The same goes for Jones. He was the best pass protector in the NFL two years ago, without a shadow of a doubt, but he's been on the decline for the last two years, and this season he was barely Pro Bowl worth. I like (in no particular order) Peters, Joe Thomas, Flozell Adams, and Chad Clifton all better than him this year. Seems like--in contrast to the guards--its been a down year for tackle play this season. Most of the standbys are on the decline, and the young up-and-coming studs suffered setbacks. No one should question Matt Light, though. With the lone exception of the NYG game, he was nearly flawless all season. Definitely deserves it, and that's coming from someone who has always considered him to be just "solid".

I never have liked Samuels, and think that he again is being over rated. Sure, he makes big plays, but the Pats are always easy to pass on, and I think he can be exploited. Hard to say who I would rather have in over him, though. CBs are hard that way.

The last problem I have is that they have 4 LB slots, but not a single 4-3 OLB. Isn't it kind of dumb to give the 'tweeners the advantage over their straight up counterparts. Hard to argue with Ware and Vrabel, though. Love the Willis selection.


All in all, though, pretty freaking solid.

[iowatreat54]

I kinda don't understand how Brady wasn't unanimous...I mean yea, Favre had a good year, but Brady's year was incredible...sure, he had more "weapons" but still, I don't see how anyone can think Favre had a better year than Brady

[GB12]

Who? The only guys I can think of would be Tatupu and Urlacher.

nick barnett, e.j. henderson, barrett ruud
Barnett, Henderson, and Fletcher was who I had in mind. I'd rank them as

1. Barnett
2. Henderson
3. Fletcher
4. Urlacher
5. Willis
6. Ruud
7. Tatupu

[fenikz]

Do u even watch the games these stats are achieved in or do you simply search up on ESPN to who got what? I'm gonna guess the latter is true.

have you watched a Cardinals game is the true question, much like Adrian Wilson over the past 3 years or so Dockett will be snubbed because of being a Arizona Cardinal, he clearly had the best year out of all DT's and i don't care how much you love the taste of Williams & Haynesworth's nuts :p

[DHVF]

have you watched a Cardinals game is the true question, much like Adrian Wilson over the past 3 years or so Dockett will be snubbed because of being a Arizona Cardinal, he clearly had the best year out of all DT's and i don't care how much you love the taste of Williams & Haynesworth's nuts :p
Haha, yup i have. I have also watched Kevin Williams and Albert Haynesworth and even though you refuse to believe it, they both had bigger impacts on their respective defenses than your precious Dockett. Quit trying to gain sympathy solely due to the fact that you cheer for the lowly Cardinals, as its really quite pathetic.

[DHVF]

what list does bailey not deserve to be on?Apparently this one, as Cromartie was able to get on due to the fact that teams aren't afraid to throw on him.

[Burns336]

Pretty solid in most respects. I disagree with Cromartie, just because I doubt his coverage was as good as his playmaking, although I concede that I haven't watched a ton of Chargers games this year, like I have in the past.

I disagree with Faneca, mainly because even Steeler fans have complained about him not playing up to par this year, and I have personally witnessed the absolute domination that Leonard Davis has imposed this year, along with the fantastic play (like usual....when healthy) of Shawn Andrews, plus Steinbach's great season, and that doesn't even count what Evans has done, though that is mainly hearsay. Haven't really noticed him myself. Its been a very strong year for guards, and Faneca's worst season in year's doesn't qualify him, imo.

The same goes for Jones. He was the best pass protector in the NFL two years ago, without a shadow of a doubt, but he's been on the decline for the last two years, and this season he was barely Pro Bowl worth. I like (in no particular order) Peters, Joe Thomas, Flozell Adams, and Chad Clifton all better than him this year. Seems like--in contrast to the guards--its been a down year for tackle play this season. Most of the standbys are on the decline, and the young up-and-coming studs suffered setbacks. No one should question Matt Light, though. With the lone exception of the NYG game, he was nearly flawless all season. Definitely deserves it, and that's coming from someone who has always considered him to be just "solid".

I never have liked Samuels, and think that he again is being over rated. Sure, he makes big plays, but the Pats are always easy to pass on, and I think he can be exploited. Hard to say who I would rather have in over him, though. CBs are hard that way.

The last problem I have is that they have 4 LB slots, but not a single 4-3 OLB. Isn't it kind of dumb to give the 'tweeners the advantage over their straight up counterparts. Hard to argue with Ware and Vrabel, though. Love the Willis selection.


All in all, though, pretty freaking solid.

Leonard Davis was 2nd Team All-pro, he and the others listed probably should have gotten the nod over Faneca

Also, Flozell Adams was 2nd Team All-Pro, so your argument for him as well as the other guys over Jones does carry some merit.

[BamaFalcon59]

DeAngelo Hall was the best cornerback in the NFL this year. Yeah, yeah I know everyone thinks that is funny. But it is true.

Offensive lineman never get any awards on performance. Matt Light is extremely overrated, as is Alan Faneca. I would replace them with Jason Peters and Shawn Andrews.

[Burns336]

DeAngelo Hall was the best cornerback in the NFL this year. Yeah, yeah I know everyone thinks that is funny. But it is true.

Offensive lineman never get any awards on performance. Matt Light is extremely overrated, as is Alan Faneca. I would replace them with Jason Peters and Shawn Andrews.

I hate D. Hall but he did have a good, if not the best, year in comparison to other corners.

Cro is the sexy pick though. That one handed snag of Peyton Manning is stuck in everyones head (and rightfully so). Plus, he didn't even start during the first half of the season, yet somehow managed to accumulate 10 int's. Everyone should also remember the 109 yard touchdown return.

No doubt Hall was a better pure corner this year, but he plays for a loser and didn't make the flashy plays that the Cro did.

[Shiver]

I like DeAngelo Hall, but I would put him in the 4th slot. My personal list, based solely on this year:

1. Nnamdi Asomugha
2. Asante Samuel
3. Antonio Cromartie
4. DeAngelo Hall
5. Champ Bailey

[Vernon Davis]

Barnett, Henderson, and Fletcher was who I had in mind. I'd rank them as

1. Barnett
2. Henderson
3. Fletcher
4. Urlacher
5. Willis
6. Ruud
7. Tatupu

You sir are a huge homer. Tatupu is WAY better then Barnett, Henderson, Fletcher, and Rudd. I laugh at your insane man crush with Nick Barnett. Don't get me wrong, he is good but LOL at number 1.

Here is how I would rank them:

1. Tatupu
2. Willis
3. Urlacher
4. Barnett
5. Henderson
6. Ruud
7. Fletcher

Nick Barnett would have tired out if he had to be on the field nearly as long as Patrick Willis.

[bigbluedefense]

I like DeAngelo Hall, but I would put him in the 4th slot. My personal list, based solely on this year:

1. Nnamdi Asomugha
2. Asante Samuel
3. Antonio Cromartie
4. DeAngelo Hall
5. Champ Bailey

Cromartie can't be ahead of DHall when he covered the #2 guy on the other team. I personally think that Samuel is terribly overrated. The scheme in place always gives him help up top against top tier WRs, which allows him to gamble more.

He's good, but he's not better than DHall. Only guy I think you can make an argument for was Asomugha. My personal list.

1. DeAngelo Hall
2. Nnamdi Asomugha
3. Terrance Newman (even though he was hurt this year)
4. Champ Bailey
5. Marcus Trufant

It was a down year in general for CBs. No one was really shutdown other than Hall and Asomugha. Newman was, but was hurt too much for me to bump him higher than I have him.

[terribletowel39]

You sir are a huge homer. Tatupu is WAY better then Barnett, Henderson, Fletcher, and Rudd. I laugh at your insane man crush with Nick Barnett. Don't get me wrong, he is good but LOL at number 1.

Here is how I would rank them:

1. Tatupu
2. Willis
3. Urlacher
4. Barnett
5. Henderson
6. Ruud
7. Fletcher

Nick Barnett would have tired out if he had to be on the field nearly as long as Patrick Willis.
thats kind of a dumb assumption to make don't you think. how would you be able to say if he would be tired or not??

and i agree with some degree to GB's rankings. i think the NFC North has the three best MLB in the NFC with it being Henderson, Barnett, then Urlacher. the rest is kinda a wash. rememeber Willis has just been in one season.

[Boston]

You sir are a huge homer. Tatupu is WAY better then Barnett, Henderson, Fletcher, and Rudd. I laugh at your insane man crush with Nick Barnett. Don't get me wrong, he is good but LOL at number 1.

Here is how I would rank them:

1. Tatupu
2. Willis
3. Urlacher
4. Barnett
5. Henderson
6. Ruud
7. Fletcher

Nick Barnett would have tired out if he had to be on the field nearly as long as Patrick Willis.

Do the 49'ers play 120 minute games now...? I'm sure it feels that way watching them...

[GB12]

You sir are a huge homer. Tatupu is WAY better then Barnett, Henderson, Fletcher, and Rudd. I laugh at your insane man crush with Nick Barnett. Don't get me wrong, he is good but LOL at number 1.

Here is how I would rank them:

1. Tatupu
2. Willis
3. Urlacher
4. Barnett
5. Henderson
6. Ruud
7. Fletcher

Nick Barnett would have tired out if he had to be on the field nearly as long as Patrick Willis.
Had Patrick Willis been on the field the amount Barnett was and had a LB that was at least decent next to him he doesn't have anywhere near the amount of tackels he does.

Thanks for helping with my point.

[bigbluedefense]

I think the league is packed with alot of very good MIKEs. We don't have that one dominant MIKE like we used to when Ray Lewis was in his prime, or even when Urlacher was.

Maybe Patrick Willis can be that guy in a couple of years.

[Shiver]

Cromartie can't be ahead of DHall when he covered the #2 guy on the other team.

Well the Chargers were the best team against #2 receivers... It isn't his fault that his team doesn't move him from side to side.

I personally think that Samuel is terribly overrated. The scheme in place always gives him help up top against top tier WRs, which allows him to gamble more.

Yeah, you may be right there.

Either way the only 'elite' corner in the league this year, I believe, was Asomugha. He only gave up, if I recall, nine catches all year. That is unbelievable.

[Burns336]

While all of these arguments against Willis' stats may be true, he did play phenomenal. Can we really criticize him for playing excellent on a bad team?

He may have had a huge impact even if he had been on a good team. All we can do is speculate.

So given his performance and the circumstances surrounding him, I don't think it is that far-fetched of a pick. There are plenty of people (Outside of a few guys i.e. Brady) who are interchangeable with the 2nd team all pro guys and the other premier players at their position. Arguments can be made for everyone.

IMO it isn't a bad pick. Others may have been worthy, but I don't have a huge problem with Willis.

[Vernon Davis]

Had Patrick Willis been on the field the amount Barnett was and had a LB that was at least decent next to him he doesn't have anywhere near the amount of tackels he does.

Thanks for helping with my point.

While I will admit my statement about Nick Barnett was an ignorant assumption, your statement was just as stupid.

Let me prove this to you.

Willis was on the field on average 3.89 minutes per game longer then Barnett.

Barnett had 131 total tackles in 16 games at a 29.82 minutes per game average. So Barnett had an average of 8.1875 tackles per game or .27456 per avrage minute of game time.

So you can derive that if Nick Barnett was on the field as long as Patrick Willis he would gain 1.06 tackles.

Adjusting for defensive possesion, Barnett would have 132 tackles and Willis 174.

You sir just got owned. I hope it doesn't hurt your green shades.

[terribletowel39]

you didn't factor in his other variable. every other LB in that 49ers core sucks. so no one was getting to the ball carrier near as quickly as Willis.

and plus i think the college NC game proved as good as any that tackles don't mean everything in the game. Lauriniatis had a average to okay game and still racked up 19 tackles.

and i agree with njx, i was having that debate with a buddy of mine the other day and neither of us mentioned Samuel in our top 10.

[sup3rdup3r]

you didn't factor in his other variable. every other LB in that 49ers core sucks. so no one was getting to the ball carrier near as quickly as Willis.

and plus i think the college NC game proved as good as any that tackles don't mean everything in the game. Lauriniatis had a average to okay game and still racked up 19 tackles.

and i agree with njx, i was having that debate with a buddy of mine the other day and neither of us mentioned Samuel in our top 10.

Which is why it might be a good idea to watch him play. If watch even a minute of the 49ers on defense, you'd instantly see the impact willis makes on every play. He comes up with clutch stops and got better with every game this season. I don't want to go in to detail because A. I'm not in the mood to get in to an argument and B. it would take too long. If you haven't watched the games then theres no convincing you.

Anyone that discredits Willis' season because of the team around obviously hasn't watched him play.

[Vernon Davis]

you didn't factor in his other variable. every other LB in that 49ers core sucks. so no one was getting to the ball carrier near as quickly as Willis.

and plus i think the college NC game proved as good as any that tackles don't mean everything in the game. Lauriniatis had a average to okay game and still racked up 19 tackles.

and i agree with njx, i was having that debate with a buddy of mine the other day and neither of us mentioned Samuel in our top 10.

Not exactly true. Manny Lawson does not suck nor does Brandon Moore. Lawson is faster then Patrick Willis. Lawson played the first two games before getting injured and Willis had 11 and 8 tackles in those games.

Not only that but the 49ers defense is pretty fast. Clements and Lewis are both fast to the ball and make tackles.

[Vernon Davis]

Anyone that discredits Willis' season because of the team around obviously hasn't watched him play.

AGREED.

Packer homers.

[7-11]

While I will admit my statement about Nick Barnett was an ignorant assumption, your statement was just as stupid.

Let me prove this to you.

Willis was on the field on average 3.89 minutes per game longer then Barnett.

Barnett had 131 total tackles in 16 games at a 29.82 minutes per game average. So Barnett had an average of 8.1875 tackles per game or .27456 per avrage minute of game time.

So you can derive that if Nick Barnett was on the field as long as Patrick Willis he would gain 1.06 tackles.

Adjusting for defensive possesion, Barnett would have 132 tackles and Willis 174.

You sir just got owned. I hope it doesn't hurt your green shades.

You owned nobody, and i'm sure his green shades will be fine.

There are so many variables you chose to ignore it's not even worth arguing. Then theres the fact that total tackles is a stupid statistic that should never be used to argue which player is more effective. If it in fact did have a significant bearing on whether or not a player was playing well Andra Davis would be an All-Pro but everybody who has seen him play knows this is far from the case.

[Primetime21]

Barnett, Henderson, and Fletcher was who I had in mind. I'd rank them as

1. Barnett
2. Henderson
3. Fletcher
4. Urlacher
5. Willis
6. Ruud
7. Tatupu

I think Julian Peterson deserves to be on that list too. I think you have a typo because Tatupu at 7 is outragous.

[Vernon Davis]

You owned nobody, and i'm sure his green shades will be fine.

There are so many variables you chose to ignore it's not even worth arguing. Then theres the fact that total tackles is a stupid statistic that should never be used to argue which player is more effective. If it in fact did have a significant bearing on whether or not a player was playing well Andra Davis would be an All-Pro but everybody who has seen him play knows this is far from the case.

I agree with you. But he used tackle numbers to argue Willis was worse then Barnett. So I showed him how his logic is soooo flawed. There are other variables going into it but they are largely over stated. This is the NFL. The Packers defense as a whole isn't going to be considerably faster then the Niners defense.

Anyone who has watched Willis and Barnett play would see that Barnett is very good but Willis is a step above. Its amazing what Willis has done in his rookie season.

[Vernon Davis]

I think Julian Peterson deserves to be on that list too. I think you have a typo because Tatupu at 7 is outragous.


He was talking about inside linebackers, I believe.

Tatupu at 7 is the biggest joke ever.

Julian Peterson is likely about the 5th best OLB in the 4-3 and 10th in the 3-4.

[7-11]

I agree with you. But he used tackle numbers to argue Willis was worse then Barnett. So I showed him how his logic is soooo flawed. There are other variables going into it but they are largely over stated. This is the NFL. The Packers defense as a whole isn't going to be considerably faster then the Niners defense.

Anyone who has watched Willis and Barnett play would see that Barnett is very good but Willis is a step above. Its amazing what Willis has done in his rookie season.

Oh ok, sorry didn't read the rest of the thread that closely so i assumed you brought the tackle thing up.

[Bills2083]

Wow, Willis made it, and he's a rookie.

[no love]

Barnett, Henderson, and Fletcher was who I had in mind. I'd rank them as

1. Barnett
2. Henderson
3. Fletcher
4. Urlacher
5. Willis
6. Ruud
7. Tatupu

That is one the most ridiculous list I have ever seen.

And I assume it's just coincidence that 3 of your top 4 are in the NFC north and your favorite is a packer...please.

Here is my list.

1. Tatupu - He doesn't have the stats, but when you watch him play he is the biggest game changer on this list, too hard not to put #1
2. Willis - Did the most with the least and did the most by a wide margin and was on the least talented by a wide margin.
3. Urlacher - if he didn't play injured he would probably be #1
4. London Fletcher - He played inspired this year.
5. Barnett - I know you think he is god, but he is not better than the guys ahead of him with the exception of maybe Fletcher who is having a hell of a year.
6. Beason - Played really well for such inconsistent line play in front of him, but wouldn't merit consideration because he didn't do it over a whole season.
7. Rudd - Seemed like more of a product of a great defensive team with lots of good guys surrounding him, not quite in the league of the guys in the top 5

To be honest, Henderson was less impressive than these other guys and maybe thats because he had a much easier time, with those two massive DT's. He seems to be a good player, but I think any of those other guys would have done much more on that defense.

[gsoturf]

IMO there are only two superstar Inside backers..

Brian Urlacher who played injuried most of the season and is by far the most physically gifted inside guy.

Tatupu who isn't the biggest guy in the world but has so much athleticism and toughness to make up for that SLIGHT disadvantage in size.

Guy's on the rise...

Willis and maybe Ruud...

[d34ng3l021]

Champ Bailey made the 2nd team All-Pro, I think. Thats what I was referring to when I said, "Champ Bailey doesnt deserve to be on this list" or whatever.

I think you are underplaying Hall's season. Sure Nnamdi was amazing, but I dont think Samuels or Cromartie outpeformed him. Samuels had a great year, but I think that has alot to do with the system he is playing in. He plays short zone alot, and is able to break for the ball and take risks like that. He is amazing in that kind of system, but playing man to man like Nnamdi, Hall, Bailey, etc do is alot harder than doing what Samuels does.

The reason I dont think Willis deserves to be on that list is because he is too one dimensional. Only in the 2nd half of the season did he actually start to stuff the run. Before he was making alot of his tackles down the field, but he improved alot. I dont see him more than a run stuffer, maybe a good pass rusher, at the moment. His coverage needs work on. But he can only get better right now. I remember a quote Singletary said or some coach which talked about how Willis has bad or no technique.

Thats scary.

[gsoturf]

BTW who in their right mind woudl take EJ Henderson over Urlacher..?

[d34ng3l021]

IMO there are only two superstar Inside backers..

Brian Urlacher who played injuried most of the season and is by far the most physically gifted inside guy.

Tatupu who isn't the biggest guy in the world but has so much athleticism and toughness to make up for that SLIGHT disadvantage in size.

Guy's on the rise...

Willis and maybe Ruud...

Tatupu doesnt have 'so much athleticism.' His instincts are off the charts which makes up for his lack of speed. He could blow up a play not because he is fast and strong, but because he can diagnose the play very quickly.

The reason he slid to round 2 or 3 was because of his LACK of athleticism.

[gsoturf]

LOL whatever you say...

[7-11]

BTW who in their right mind woudl take EJ Henderson over Urlacher..?

Considering Brian Urlacher has an arthritic back and is going to experience a sharp decline in production in the next few years as it worsens i guess alot of people aren't 'in their right mind'.

[gsoturf]

So you can predict the future now can you?

Sorry but I'm going to take the superstar over a guy who makes a living playing off of two of the best defensive tackles in the game..

Obviously Henderson is younger but speaking of 'the' next two or three seasons.. Urlacher is still the obvious choice.

[GB12]

While I will admit my statement about Nick Barnett was an ignorant assumption, your statement was just as stupid.

Let me prove this to you.

Willis was on the field on average 3.89 minutes per game longer then Barnett.

Barnett had 131 total tackles in 16 games at a 29.82 minutes per game average. So Barnett had an average of 8.1875 tackles per game or .27456 per avrage minute of game time.

So you can derive that if Nick Barnett was on the field as long as Patrick Willis he would gain 1.06 tackles.

Adjusting for defensive possesion, Barnett would have 132 tackles and Willis 174.

You sir just got owned. I hope it doesn't hurt your green shades.
Barnett was in for 3 plays in the Detroit game so you can't count that. Besides that your math was quite flawed. I'll try to correct what you were trying to do. You got the 1.06 and added that to his total when you should have multiplied by 16 first.

Barnett had 130 tackels in 15 games. 8.66667 per game. Roughly .293 a minute. .293*33.5(Willis' playing time)*16(games in a season)=157 tackels.

Then here's the important part. Nick Barnett is playing next to AJ Hawk, Patrick Willis is playing next to Derek Smith. Put Hawk next to Willis and his numbers would drop substantially.

"You sir just got owned."
you didn't factor in his other variable. every other LB in that 49ers core sucks. so no one was getting to the ball carrier near as quickly as Willis.
Exactly. Also I'd like to point out that 4 out of the top 7 of SF's leading tacklers were DBs. That means that people are getting through rather easily, and Willis is getting quite a few of his tackels downfield. I haven't watched all of the 49ers games, but in the ones I have that appeared to be true too.

I think Julian Peterson deserves to be on that list too. I think you have a typo because Tatupu at 7 is outragous.
Peterson is not an inside LB. I also think Tatupu at 7 is exactly where he belongs. I don't understand the crazy amount of love he gets. He's good, but not as good as he gets made out to be.

I agree with you. But he used tackle numbers to argue Willis was worse then Barnett. So I showed him how his logic is soooo flawed. There are other variables going into it but they are largely over stated. This is the NFL. The Packers defense as a whole isn't going to be considerably faster then the Niners defense.

Anyone who has watched Willis and Barnett play would see that Barnett is very good but Willis is a step above. Its amazing what Willis has done in his rookie season.
No, you showed me tackel numbers to show Willis is better than Barnett...

Willis is defenitely not "a step above Barnett". I do like Willis and think he's had a very good season, but he does not deserve everything he's getting. I agree it's amazing that he's done all this as a rookie, and some day he might be the best LB in the league, but that day is not today.

[terribletowel39]

yea but this has nothing to do with past or future production. this accolade is supposed to deal with just this year and the individuals performance.

Henderson outplayed Urlacher.

[elcapitan]

While on the discussion of best ILB's, I'm surprised no one has mentioned DeMeco Ryans.

People making lists of the top 7 ILB's and he doesn't even make it over guys like Ruud - who played like absolute crap the last quarter of the season including the playoffs. Missed tackles, couldn't shed blockers, looked lost in coverage ... wow.

[gsoturf]

That I can understand.. THIS YEAR.. but as far as rating the top 5 or 10 or 20 whatever players I take more than one year into account.

--- for the Barnet guy

Didn't Lofa single handedly win the Cleveland game for seatle? something like 3 ints some sacks and the game winning int? I could be confused with someone else but I'm pretty sure I watch that game..
Anyways that's why I like Lofa so much he can just take over games.

NM that game was Philly!

[GB12]

So you can predict the future now can you?

Sorry but I'm going to take the superstar over a guy who makes a living playing off of two of the best defensive tackles in the game..

Obviously Henderson is younger but speaking of 'the' next two or three seasons.. Urlacher is still the obvious choice.
For their performance this season? No, Urlacher is not the "obvious choice". He still had a very good year, and when you factor in some of the stuff he had to deal with it's pretty amazing. However Henderson was the better of the two for 2007.

[KILLERSANTA]

While on the discussion of best ILB's, I'm surprised no one has mentioned DeMeco Ryans.

People making lists of the top 7 ILB's and he doesn't even make it over guys like Ruud - who played like absolute crap the last quarter of the season including the playoffs. Missed tackles, couldn't shed blockers, looked lost in coverage ... wow.

Wow..............I haven't even read half the posts. But even I can tell they're talking about the NFC.............

[terribletowel39]

That I can understand.. THIS YEAR.. but as far as rating the top 5 or 10 or 20 whatever players I take more than one year into account.

--- for the Barnet guy

Didn't Lofa single handedly win the Cleveland game for seatle? something like 3 ints some sacks and the game winning int? I could be confused with someone else but I'm pretty sure I watch that game..
Anyways that's why I like Lofa so much he can just take over games.

NM that game was Philly!
yea and McNabb through it directly to lofa. there was not one of those three interceptions that wasn't a horrible read or throw by McNabb. yea he caught it and he caught it three times but its not like he made a play.

[gsoturf]

I mean this year I might give the edge to EJ but even then.. I think if Urlacher had two amazing defensive tackles and was able to just run free you would have seen a lot more games of Urlacher just dominating this season even with the injuries.

Remmeber the Cardinals game last season, you know the one where no one blocked Urlacher, Urlacher won that game.

[GB12]

While on the discussion of best ILB's, I'm surprised no one has mentioned DeMeco Ryans.

People making lists of the top 7 ILB's and he doesn't even make it over guys like Ruud - who played like absolute crap the last quarter of the season including the playoffs. Missed tackles, couldn't shed blockers, looked lost in coverage ... wow.
We were ranking NFC Inside Linebackers.
That I can understand.. THIS YEAR.. but as far as rating the top 5 or 10 or 20 whatever players I take more than one year into account.

--- for the Barnet guy

Didn't Lofa single handedly win the Cleveland game for seatle? something like 3 ints some sacks and the game winning int? I could be confused with someone else but I'm pretty sure I watch that game..
Anyways that's why I like Lofa so much he can just take over games.

That was against the Eagles. All 3 of those were thrown right at him too. An NFL player is expected to make those catches.

[gsoturf]

yea and McNabb through it directly to lofa. there was not one of those three interceptions that wasn't a horrible read or throw by McNabb. yea he caught it and he caught it three times but its not like he made a play.

I'd have to go back and look at them but anytime a players gets THREE ints I would consider that making plays..

[elcapitan]

Wow..............I haven't even read half the posts. But even I can tell they're talking about the NFC.............

I assumed it was for both conferences, since it was an all-pro thread.

[7-11]

So you can predict the future now can you?

Sorry but I'm going to take the superstar over a guy who makes a living playing off of two of the best defensive tackles in the game..

Obviously Henderson is younger but speaking of 'the' next two or three seasons.. Urlacher is still the obvious choice.

Henderson had a better year than Urlacher this year, i think that's clearish.

Sorry to tell you mate but you don't recover from Arthritis, it just gets progressively worse. And based off what we know at this stage with regard to Urlacher's back i definately would not be taking him over Henderson in 3 years time. In saying this it's an absolute tragedy that a young guy like this is already walking with pain and it's only going to get worse as he ages.

[gsoturf]

Henderson had a better year than Urlacher this year, i think that's clearish.

Sorry to tell you mate but you don't recover from Arthritis, it just gets progressively worse. And based off what we know at this stage with regard to Urlacher's back i definately would not be taking him over Henderson in 3 years time. In saying this it's an absolute tragedy that a young guy like this is already walking with pain and it's only going to get worse as he ages.

The way Urlacher played at the end of the year I wouldn't bet agasint him that's for sure.

[Sniper]

yea and McNabb through it directly to lofa. there was not one of those three interceptions that wasn't a horrible read or throw by McNabb. yea he caught it and he caught it three times but its not like he made a play.

Actually it was A.J Feeley who played that game. And on all three picks to Tatupu he stared down his target the entire time.

I'm just pumped Brian Westbrook is getting some love.

[KILLERSANTA]

I assumed it was for both conferences, since it was an all-pro thread.

Understandable....But that why I don't post too much in threads more than 2 pages long. Too much to read.......

[7-11]

The way Urlacher played at the end of the year I wouldn't bet agasint him that's for sure.

if it was say Lofa Tatupu or Demeco Ryans (disregarding toughness, ability to play through pain and all that) i'd be slightly confident they'd be able to play through it and be reasonably effective, mainly because they aren't the most athletic guys and base their game on football knowledge and outstanding footballing instincts. Brian Urlacher on the other hand bases his game on athleticism, couple this with the fact that the guy is 29 and going on 30 (just realised we share a birthday when i looked that up) and i don't see him being able to play as well as he should be able to as a 32 year old.

[d34ng3l021]

in that case, you're wrong. bailey is literally the only reason our defense didn't give up 70 a game. what you're likely doing is looking at stats and assuming that, because he actually got beat for once, he must've had an off season. what you likely missed completely is that he was the only player on our team who could make an edge tackle. he also had absolutely no safety help and no help from the d-line, which isn't an excuse for getting beat, but IS the reason that he started jumping more balls this season and thus gave up more plays. outside of asomugha, i'm not sure any other CB in the league had the impact on his defense that champ did all around.

I am not downplaying him as a player, but I just think that in this year, he was outplayed by 4 other CBs. Thats all.

[gsoturf]

if it was say Lofa Tatupu or Demeco Ryans (disregarding toughness, ability to play through pain and all that) i'd be slightly confident they'd be able to play through it and be reasonably effective, mainly because they aren't the most athletic guys and base their game on football knowledge and outstanding footballing instincts. Brian Urlacher on the other hand bases his game on athleticism, couple this with the fact that the guy is 29 and going on 30 (just realised we share a birthday when i looked that up) and i don't see him being able to play as well as he should be able to as a 32 year old.

What it really comes down to is who he has around him when he reaches that point.

[7-11]

What it really comes down to is who he has around him when he reaches that point.

I don't really think so. If he plays on a dominant defense at that time then yeah he's going to get some props from the media as the leader of that defense or something like that, but it won't make him a better player. But that's why the media generally sucks i guess

[JT Jag]

I think Fred Taylor being named a second-team All Pro is more meaningful then being named to the Pro Bowl.

[wiscbadgerfootball]

kinda surprised no packers made it but w/e

[7-11]

I just realised Darren Sharper made second team all-pro. Who the hell is this guy sleeping with?

[KILLERSANTA]

I just realised Darren Sharper made second team all-pro. Who the hell is this guy sleeping with?

He is really good with his tongue.............If you know what I mean.....

[7-11]

He is really good with his tongue.............If you know what I mean.....

Ohh i know, i'm only pissed cause it means he's been sleeping with someone else

[KILLERSANTA]

Ohh i know, i'm only pissed cause it means he's been sleeping with someone else

Have you put any thought into a 3-some?

[7-11]

Have you put any thought into a 3-some?

Sorry, unless you can vote him to an all-pro team Darren just isn't into it.

But if you rake another stud into the equation...

[KILLERSANTA]

Sorry, unless you can vote him to an all-pro team Darren just isn't into it.

But if you rake another stud into the equation...

Patrick Crayton? He's going to have a superbowl ring soon......

[7-11]

Patrick Crayton? He's going to have a superbowl ring soon......

Nah what about this guy?

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/players/01/02/questions0108/p1_saturday.jpg

He's got a ring, soon to have another, and he's on the all-pro first team. I imagine it would be similar to having sex with some sort of bear

[kmartin575]

Lorenzo Neal does not deserve a spot. According to nfl.com he only started 8 games. How can a guy only start half the season and still make the all pro team?

[Average OT LB]

Lorenzo Neal does not deserve a spot. According to nfl.com he only started 8 games. How can a guy only start half the season and still make the all pro team?

I agree. I'm a charger fan and Neal does not deserve the spot. There may have been a decline in rushing yards this year, but that does not mean that lo neal and his 8 average games deserves anything..

[Average OT LB]

I am not downplaying him as a player, but I just think that in this year, he was outplayed by 4 other CBs. Thats all.

I agree with this statement. Bailey is the best, just not this year. There are excuses for getting beat, especially in his case... but you cant reward him for his play..

[marks01234]

Dockett > Haynesworth & Williams

58 Tackles, 9 Sacks, 7 TFL, 2 FF

vs

40 Tackles, 6 Sacks, 8 TFL, 0 FF

&

38 Tackles, 3 Sacks, 5 TFL, 0 FF, 2 INT, 2 TD

Docket had one sack in the final 8 games.

[d34ng3l021]

Seriously, Haynesworth was the best DT in the NFL this past season. Dockett was more of a pass rushing guy...of course he will get better sack stats. Haynesworth and Williams disrupted the middle blowing up running plays like no others. Theres a reason the Vikings and Titans have top run defenses. Its because of them.

[Gay Ork Wang]

I really like the fact that no one said "Why is devin in there, Josh Cribbs is the man, he is far more consistent"

and Yeah Devin, the only Bear in the AP Team


btw where can i see the #2 All Pro Team

[d34ng3l021]

well no kidding. he's on the 2nd team. i don't buy for a second that more than 3 other cbs were better all around players this season. again, if you're going off three sportscenter highlights and some stats, you have no business being in this discussion. if you actually saw some broncos games, i'd be more interested in hearing why you think he's still not a top 4 CB in a serious down year for CBs.

In general he is still a top4 CB...number 1 in my book...its just the year he had this year was not top4.

Here are guys who I thought had a better individual year than Bailey:

DeAngelo Hall, Nnamdi Asomugha, Asante Samuels, maybe Ike Taylor or Marcus Trufant.

[Ewing]

Barnett, Henderson, and Fletcher was who I had in mind. I'd rank them as

1. Barnett
2. Henderson
3. Fletcher
4. Urlacher
5. Willis
6. Ruud
7. Tatupu

You honestly think Nick Barnett is the best middle linebacker in the NFC?

[Vikes99ej]

In general he is still a top4 CB...number 1 in my book...its just the year he had this year was not top4.

Here are guys who I thought had a better individual year than Bailey:

DeAngelo Hall, Nnamdi Asomugha, Asante Samuels, maybe Ike Taylor or Marcus Trufant.

Ike Taylor?!!! LMFAO GWAH GWAH GWAH HA HA!!!

Ike Taylor absolutely did not have a better year than Champ Bailey.

[jkpigskin]

I'm actually surprised Witten got the nod, I was almost sure he would be snubbed.

hard to snub a TE who had over 1000 yards receiving
surprised reed got in.... he had ints but most were terrrible throws and he barely had tackles in the run game like he used to have

[d34ng3l021]

Fine. Take out Taylor. He started off with a great year, only yielding 1 or 2 TD passes. in the first half of the season, but still had a good year.

With Samuels its tricky. Samuels plays in a different scheme than Bailey...probably an easier scheme. Samuels doesnt cover deep often and isnt in man to man situations nearly as much as Bailey is, but when he does play short zone or medium zone or such, he makes great breaks for the balls and is a solid tackler. Does everything that is asked of him and more.

[terribletowel39]

Ike Taylor?!!! LMFAO GWAH GWAH GWAH HA HA!!!

Ike Taylor absolutely did not have a better year than Champ Bailey.
i might not say that Taylor had a better year, but it sure isn't as far off as all your GWAH's made it seem. its pretty close for this year. he only gave up 2 touchdowns all year and didn't allow a throw over 40 against him, he completely shut down his side of the field. but i would still choose Bailey over him.

[detap21]

I just got a few little things to say. 1. Willis was the best LB this year, I believe he got the best LB award not to mention leading the league in tackles. 2. I think that Tommie Harris should of made the second all pro team. He had a pretty good year while being hurt at the same time. 3. Champ did not have a Champ year. Qbs are afraid to throw to his side of the field, they test Dre Bly. This year I would of taken Cromartie, Samuel, Asomugha, Harris, Barber, and Trufant over Champ. I think that Champ got the nod because he is Champ, he is a name. Just like Walter Jones, Seattle did not run that well and he got on the first team. Thats all that I got to say.

[sodar21]

Probably has been mentioned but theres absolutely no reason for Faneca to be on the list.

[7-11]

I just got a few little things to say. 1. Willis was the best LB this year, I believe he got the best LB award not to mention leading the league in tackles. 2. I think that Tommie Harris should of made the second all pro team. He had a pretty good year while being hurt at the same time. 3. Champ did not have a Champ year. Qbs are afraid to throw to his side of the field, they test Dre Bly. This year I would of taken Cromartie, Samuel, Asomugha, Harris, Barber, and Trufant over Champ. I think that Champ got the nod because he is Champ, he is a name. Just like Walter Jones, Seattle did not run that well and he got on the first team. Thats all that I got to say.

I have issues with most of this post, but i thought i'd just highlight the bits that are the worst.

[21ST]

Who? The only guys I can think of would be Tatupu and Urlacher.

london fletcher

[Geo]

Matt Light is a very good starter, but not an All-Pro left tackle.

[detap21]

I have issues with most of this post, but i thought i'd just highlight the bits that are the worst.

Antonio Cromartie led the league in interceptions so he was better then Champ this year. Al Harris, Ronde Barber, and Trufant they played well. Champ had more ints than Harris and Barber. Don't get me wrong if I was doing an overall ranking with all of their years rolled up Champ would be number one. This year he is not number one, Antonio Cromartie is. Yes, I probably would take Bailey over Barber and Harris. Even though Harris came through in the clutch. Samuel and Cromartie team one. Harris and Bailey team two? Instead of Bailey it should of either been Trufant or Asomugha more Trufant though. Come on man, you have to admit that these people pick big names. Tough to decide which three corners are better, Trufant, Champ, or Asomugha. Hmmm ... which is the bigger name oh of course Champ Bailey.
Cromartie - 10 Ints
Trufant - 7 Ints
Champ - 3 Ints

[d34ng3l021]

Interceptions are not the be all end all stats for CBs.

[7-11]

Antonio Cromartie led the league in interceptions so he was better then Champ this year. Al Harris, Ronde Barber, and Trufant they played well. Champ had more ints than Harris and Barber. Don't get me wrong if I was doing an overall ranking with all of their years rolled up Champ would be number one. This year he is not number one, Antonio Cromartie is. Yes, I probably would take Bailey over Barber and Harris. Even though Harris came through in the clutch. Samuel and Cromartie team one. Harris and Bailey team two? Instead of Bailey it should of either been Trufant or Asomugha more Trufant though. Come on man, you have to admit that these people pick big names. Tough to decide which three corners are better, Trufant, Champ, or Asomugha. Hmmm ... which is the bigger name oh of course Champ Bailey.
Cromartie - 10 Ints
Trufant - 7 Ints
Champ - 3 Ints

That reasoning is one of the worst things i've read on here. I guess Deltha O'Neal was the best corner in the NFL in 2005? Cause believe it or not, he had 10 picks too. Now lets discuss Cromartie v Bailey from the perspective of run defense...wait, maybe not considering it does Champ a discredit to mention Antonio Cromartie in the same sentence as him when talking about playing the run.

[d34ng3l021]

that might be the dumbest load of utter bull**** i've read on this board in a LONG time. i guess terrence newman is a complete piece of garbage, because he doesn't have that many career picks? deltha o'neal is also clearly one of the best corners denver has ever had. seriously, did you think for one second before typing and submitting that?

and this is all after, in numerous places, people have suggested that using any stat as your sole ranking device is moronic. awesome, just awesome.

Did you miss the guy who said that CBs that are not thrown at CANT be good?

[7-11]

That reasoning is one of the worst things i've read on here.

that might be the dumbest load of utter bull**** i've read on this board in a LONG time. i guess terrence newman is a complete piece of garbage, because he doesn't have that many career picks? deltha o'neal is also clearly one of the best corners denver has ever had. seriously, did you think for one second before typing and submitting that?

and this is all after, in numerous places, people have suggested that using any stat as your sole ranking device is moronic. awesome, just awesome.


Well atleast i said it in a nicer way.

[7-11]

Did you miss the guy who said that CBs that are not thrown at CANT be good?

haha, so true. Really is frustrating continually hearing people try to quantify the quality of defensive players with stats.

[detap21]

You all are right. I'm wrong.

Yes I did think before I typed it.

[d34ng3l021]

At least he has the cojones to admit it.

[7-11]

You all are right. I'm wrong.

Yes I did think before I typed it.

The first step to recovery is to realise you have a problem

Which also relates to your second point, you need to let go and realise you weren't.

[detap21]

Realize that I wasn't thinking? Is that what your second part was about? Not trying to be a smart *ss, just trying to follow.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Did you miss the guy who said that CBs that are not thrown at CANT be good?

i think i did see that guy. We must be on the same forum or something

[detap21]

If that is what your saying then yes, I did not think before I typed.

[7-11]

Realize that I wasn't thinking? Is that what your second part was about? Not trying to be a smart *ss, just trying to follow.

Yeah you got it. don't worry dude, just playin with ya.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

to be clear to draftdork, i treated detap21 the same as him, so he can't say i was picking on him. I'll counter it to detap21 later though because he admitted he was wrong and it was a foolish comment

[Mr. Stiller]

I'm kind of sick seeing Patrick Willis on there.

He's a product of inflated tackle #'s.

[Geo]

The reason he has those many tackles is because he's out there flying and hitting anything that moves, making stop after another. He's taken the mantle of best middle linebacker in the league from Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

I'm kind of sick seeing Patrick Willis on there.

He's a product of inflated tackle #'s.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. When i watched the Niners he was a guy you instantly singled out, at least for me. He was always around the ball, and even when he didn't get a statistic to show for it, he was doing something that was effective. I'd say he deserves that status after the season he had. More to come i'm sure

[someone447]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. When i watched the Niners he was a guy you instantly singled out, at least for me. He was always around the ball, and even when he didn't get a statistic to show for it, he was doing something that was effective. I'd say he deserves that status after the season he had. More to come i'm sure

I would like to see the % of tackles that were made downfield. That was the knock on Barnett until the past two years. He always had a ton of tackles, but they were always 5+ yards downfield. Now he is constantly making plays at the line. To say that Barnett is a top 2 MLB in the NFC is exactly where he belongs.

[Mr. Stiller]

The reason he has those many tackles is because he's out there flying and hitting anything that moves, making stop after another. He's taken the mantle of best middle linebacker in the league from Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher.

Or it could be because the 49ers were out of most games by the 2nd half, had the worst TOP in the league and their defense got run on the whole second half of the game...

He got nominated because of 175+ Tackles. Obviously not because of his play.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

i'd beg to differ, his play was very solid and obviously the 175+ tackles is a result of that. His game was more effective than the simple tackle numbers he producted. He often attacked the line of scrimmage, making impact plays and blowing up blockers.

I will admit that a rookie being on the list is a bit out there, but who do u feel should be on there as his replacement? Barnett played very well, i can see an arguement for him. Tatupu was solid, but his all around numbers are inflated over the one multi INT game. Urlacher picked it up late in the season, but wasn't the same as last year. DJ Williams had some nice numbers, but i don't think his play was even close to nomination worthy. Kirk Morrison? London Fletcher? Ryans?

who's your replacement. I will say that there is no one clear cut winner in my mind and the only other guy i can see being considered is Barnett, who was very good. I could be wrong and i don't have a definite answer, but i'm not going to go to far out saying that Willis was a 'bad' choice

[my future me]

Matt Light is a very good starter, but not an All-Pro left tackle.

I agree with that 100%. He's not consistent enough nor does he have a strong enough first step to be considered the best LT in the game. In the same mold, however, Koppen deserves the All-Pro nod over Saturday.

Doesn't it seem that Lofa's All-Pro selection had much more to do with his performance in the Phily game than over the entire season. He was much more impressive last year.