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Macarthur
01-10-2008, 01:19 PM
Hello, Giants fans. Not coming to talk smack. Not my style.

However, I wanted to get some of you guys take on the enourmous amount the media pushing the Giants really hard.

I'm well aware that the boys didn't finish the year strong, but outside of the NE game, I don't think the Giants can say they are the hottest team in the league either. Certainly, TO is the ultimate wild card here. I'm also interested as to whether you Giants fans reall feel like Eli has "arrived" like much of the media is saying?

Again, I'm not trying to talk smack; I just think the matchups really favor the Cowboys and I'm really perplexed as to why everyone thinks the Giants will win. I think the Giants are more than capable of winning the game; I just wonder if the roles were reversed and the Giants were 13-3 and playing at home, how many of them would pick Dallas?

Giants Pride
01-10-2008, 01:35 PM
Hello, Giants fans. Not coming to talk smack. Not my style.

However, I wanted to get some of you guys take on the enourmous amount the media pushing the Giants really hard.

I'm well aware that the boys didn't finish the year strong, but outside of the NE game, I don't think the Giants can say they are the hottest team in the league either. Certainly, TO is the ultimate wild card here. I'm also interested as to whether you Giants fans reall feel like Eli has "arrived" like much of the media is saying?

Again, I'm not trying to talk smack; I just think the matchups really favor the Cowboys and I'm really perplexed as to why everyone thinks the Giants will win. I think the Giants are more than capable of winning the game; I just wonder if the roles were reversed and the Giants were 13-3 and playing at home, how many of them would pick Dallas?

For the most part the media blows up things and overhypes whatever point they trying to make ad-nauseam. I think the point with the Giants is that without a doubt they are playing their best football at this time while Dallas simply isn't. As a big, and hopefully somewhat reasonable Giants fan, here are the reasons why I am looking forward to this game and think the Giants have a very good shot.

1- Eli Manning has for the first time ever played 2 complete games in a row. Both were nationally scrutinized, both were against tougher passing defenses then they will be facing Sunday. Some rumors have surfaced (notably Phil Simms commented yesterday) that they have scaled back the option routes and simplified the playbook. If that is true then there is no reason to think the Eli's new ability to pumpfake and make decisive reads can't be maintained. Eli has also played Dallas better then any other team in the NFL he has faced dating back to his rookie year when he got his first win against them.

2- The Giants have an 8 game road winning streak and they tend to play better on the road.

3- Our special teams have been as good as any in the league over the last month.

4- We have run the ball well on pretty much every team we faced and Ahmad Bradshaw has been a revelation.

5- The Cowboys may not have TO/he will be slowed down at minimum

6- The Cowboys, including Romo, are not playing their best football (1 rushing yard vs. Wash in a game they did put forward effort)

7- Wade Phillips in a big game is a welcomed sight.

Now to be fair here are the aspects of the game that scare me

- Dallas has a good pass rush and will blitz a lot more TB (Ware scares me)

- We haven't been able to get pressure on Romo, however if Owens doesnt play this is nullified

- The big Dallas D line could hurt Pierce and the weak center of our defense

- Lawrence Tynes isn't exactly a huge kicker

thats about all I have and I would be interested to see your reaction.

Macarthur
01-10-2008, 02:30 PM
I certainly agree with you about the media.

I think your points are quite reasonable. I do have some counter points on a couple.

For the most part the media blows up things and overhypes whatever point they trying to make ad-nauseam. I think the point with the Giants is that without a doubt they are playing their best football at this time while Dallas simply isn't. As a big, and hopefully somewhat reasonable Giants fan, here are the reasons why I am looking forward to this game and think the Giants have a very good shot.

1- Eli Manning has for the first time ever played 2 complete games in a row. Both were nationally scrutinized, both were against tougher passing defenses then they will be facing Sunday. Some rumors have surfaced (notably Phil Simms commented yesterday) that they have scaled back the option routes and simplified the playbook. If that is true then there is no reason to think the Eli's new ability to pumpfake and make decisive reads can't be maintained. Eli has also played Dallas better then any other team in the NFL he has faced dating back to his rookie year when he got his first win against them.

Eli certainly shows flashes. However, how many times have we heard the "Eli has turned the corner" type of thing. And yes, he has played well against Dallas this year, but still lost both of those games by double digits.

2- The Giants have an 8 game road winning streak and they tend to play better on the road.

Again, that one loss was to...

3- Our special teams have been as good as any in the league over the last month.

4- We have run the ball well on pretty much every team we faced and Ahmad Bradshaw has been a revelation.

Agreed.

5- The Cowboys may not have TO/he will be slowed down at minimum

He will play. Reports today are that he had full participation in practice and favored the ankle early in practice, but late in practice was cutting and running full speed. However, it is reasonable to think he will not be 100%, but I'm not sure he needs to be 100%.


6- The Cowboys, including Romo, are not playing their best football (1 rushing yard vs. Wash in a game they did put forward effort)

Half-truth.

Although some starters did play into the 3rd quarter, Dallas did not put forth an effort to win that game on the field or in the gameplan. They clearly mailed that one in.

I also think the "not playing thier best football" is a bit overblown. I would agree they weren't beating teams like they were earlier in the year. However, I think that's a function of playing a tougher schedule. Every team they played late in the year was either playing to get into the playoffs or for positioning within the playoffs.

I will give you the Philly game. That was a clunker.

However, they racked up 400+ yards on Carolina and was on pace to put up 30+ pts. before TO left the game.

The defense struggled a bit at Detroit, but the offense scored 28 and Witten fumbled on the 1 going in or they would have scored 35.

So I would agree partially that the offense has had a few hickups. However, with the exception of Detroit, the defense has actually been getting stronger at the end of the year. Our secondary is as healthy as it has been all year long.

7- Wade Phillips in a big game is a welcomed sight.

We'll see. You think Coughlin is a better coach than Phillips?

Now to be fair here are the aspects of the game that scare me

- Dallas has a good pass rush and will blitz a lot more TB (Ware scares me)

Really, Dallas doesn't blitz much. Bringing 5 for their 3-4 is not a blitz. They just bring people from lots of different areas so it looks like they are blitzing, but most of the time they bring the 3 linemen & 2 OLBers.

- We haven't been able to get pressure on Romo, however if Owens doesnt play this is nullified

This is where I think this has been a big mismatch for NY. Their strength is their pass rush and the strength of the Dallas OL is pass blocking. This will be a critical part of the game. If Romo has time, the Giant secondary can be exposed. I think the Giants have to get SACKS because Romo actually can hurt you worse if he's flushed out of the pocket.

- The big Dallas D line could hurt Pierce and the weak center of our defense

Dallas' run defense has been good this year.

Laurence Tynes isn't exactly a huge kicker

While I've been happy with our kicker, he is a rookie so that worries me.

Number 10
01-10-2008, 03:40 PM
I'll just throw a few thoughts your way, I'm heading out for the night but I'll get back to you on whatever you have to say.

This game is almost impossible to predict because there are to many X-factors. We have yet to see Terry Glenn within this offensive scheme and all this talk about TO ia making everybody overlook Glenn...but I actually go into this game fearing him more than a 80% TO. We can be beat deep, no doubt about it, and that is Glenn's specialty. We are going to be so consumed with Witten and TO underneath (rightfully so) and the thought of Butler being responsible for keeping Glenn in front of him scares me. On the flip side, you guys have yet to take on Bradshaw. I have been always been hesitant with young players who show potential unlike some others. I never bought into EJ Underwood or Jonas Seawright....but this kid can flat out dominate. I think he is a much better back than Jacobs right now...and looking towards the future I think we're gonna end up talking about him as the steal of the 2007 draft. Power, speed, agility, vision, burst...he has it all. Cowboys defense is not suited for that kind of attack.

Regarding Eli...there have been numerous "He has turned it around" stories over the years but the past two weeks he has shown ability to do certain vital aspects of being a QB that he never has before. The playbook and coaching here has perhaps been the wall that has stood in between him and consistency. They just recently simplified the playbook and Gilbride has been doing a better job calling plays. I'm not ready to tell you he has "arrived"...but you can't sit there and tell me you'd be surprised to see him come in and there and take one away from Dallas. He is a good QB that has improved every year in the league, he is a winner. You cannot discount that.

I hated how the Cowboys finished in 2006, and it showed in Seattle. I hated how they ended this season, and I think it has a possibility of creeping back in again. I'll have my game preview up tomorrow...maybe I'll paste it here for you to go over.

Either way it's gonna be helluva game.

Macarthur
01-10-2008, 03:50 PM
I'll just throw a few thoughts your way, I'm heading out for the night but I'll get back to you on whatever you have to say.

This game is almost impossible to predict because there are to many X-factors.

Yeah, I could see many different scenarios playing out.


We have yet to see Terry Glenn within this offensive scheme and all this talk about TO ia making everybody overlook Glenn...but I actually go into this game fearing him more than a 80% TO. We can be beat deep, no doubt about it, and that is Glenn's specialty. We are going to be so consumed with Witten and TO underneath (rightfully so) and the thought of Butler being responsible for keeping Glenn in front of him scares me.

I don't think Glenn really has to do much to be a factor. If he has his speed, that's really all he needs to be a factor, IMO. Any plays he makes are just gravy. The best thing about him being back is that it puts Crayton back to his natural position in the slot.


On the flip side, you guys have yet to take on Bradshaw. I have been always been hesitant with young players who show potential unlike some others. I never bought into EJ Underwood or Jonas Seawright....but this kid can flat out dominate. I think he is a much better back than Jacobs right now...and looking towards the future I think we're gonna end up talking about him as the steal of the 2007 draft. Power, speed, agility, vision, burst...he has it all. Cowboys defense is not suited for that kind of attack.

He certainly has been a nice surprise for you guys. And again, I'm not trying to flame, but if the game comes down to Bradshaw against our defense, I like our odds.


Regarding Eli...there have been numerous "He has turned it around" stories over the years but the past two weeks he has shown ability to do certain vital aspects of being a QB that he never has before. The playbook and coaching here has perhaps been the wall that has stood in between him and consistency. They just recently simplified the playbook and Gilbride has been doing a better job calling plays. I'm not ready to tell you he has "arrived"...but you can't sit there and tell me you'd be surprised to see him come in and there and take one away from Dallas. He is a good QB that has improved every year in the league, he is a winner. You cannot discount that.

Oh, he's capable of playing like an elite QB. The problem is what he throws out the next week.

Maybe he has "turned the corner"; we'll see. I certainly think he is capable of winning. I guess my point of starting the thread at all is that he has played well against Dallas and still lost, yet the media is still falling all over themselves to pick NY.

I hated how the Cowboys finished in 2006, and it showed in Seattle. I hated how they ended this season, and I think it has a possibility of creeping back in again. I'll have my game preview up tomorrow...maybe I'll paste it here for you to go over.

Either way it's gonna be helluva game.

Yeah, I hate the way we ended the year, too! ;)

It is, without question, the most interesting game of the weekend, IMO.

D-Unit
01-10-2008, 04:01 PM
I predicted before the season that the Cowboys would win the NFC East Division, but wouldn't reach the SB. I think I must be a psychic.

Fact of the matter is that the Giants should by all logic, win this game. It's nearly impossible for any team to beat another team 3 times in the same season. Especially in a match up like this. Two evenly matched opponents. Giants are the hot team, Cowboys are the cold team. During our bye week, our players have been goofing around. Crayton got married, the whole team was probably there celebrating... while Romo and Witten were in Cabo vacationing with the Simpsons. If the Cowboys pull this one out of their butt, then we just might beat the Patriots. That's the kind of luck we'll be smelling under their shoes.

Giants should roll. Home field means nothing. Giants have beaten us here plenty of times in the past and nothing will come as a surprise or distraction.

Macarthur
01-10-2008, 04:20 PM
What logic, D-Unit?

Does the fact that they have lost to Dallas twice by double digits not count as logic?

As for the beating 3 times, it actually has happened about 66% of the time (something like 11 of 16). I'll try to find that link. Also, the four times this has happened in the 2000's, 3 of the 4 teams completed the 3 game sweep.

2000 Giants beat Philly
2002 Steelers beat Cleveland
2004 Rams beat Seattle
Only the 2004 Packer lost to the Vikings

Giants Pride
01-10-2008, 04:48 PM
First off I just want to say it is nice to have a reasonable conversation with an opposing fan right before a huge rivalry game. Here are a few of my retorts to your post.


Eli certainly shows flashes. However, how many times have we heard the "Eli has turned the corner" type of thing. And yes, he has played well against Dallas this year, but still lost both of those games by double digits.


We have all read numerous times that "Eli has Arrived" but just as we talked about before, that was mostly the media overblowing a few of his more impressive wins (@Philly, Denver, etc.). This time is different for several reasons. If you think back to his better games, unlike the past 2 games which I referenced, he was inconsistent. He had a miserable first half in the Philly OT game. The past 2 games Eli has not had anything more than a bad series here and there, which every qb other then Brady has. They were also his 2 most pressure filled games, in my opinion. The other impressive feet about these last 2 games is that they weren't games where he thrived on a big play or inflated stats. The majority of his stats came at important times with crucial plays. Against TB he was something like 6/8 on 3rd down, and many of those were over 7 yards as our running game was non existent until the second half. In the NE game he even had a few bad drops on his WRs. Our WR corp (especially without Shockey) is very pedestrian but like Brady did all of those years with Jabar Gaffney, Andre Caldwell, Troy Brown, Eli is finding the open man and keeping drives alive.



Half-truth.

Although some starters did play into the 3rd quarter, Dallas did not put forth an effort to win that game on the field or in the gameplan. They clearly mailed that one in.

I also think the "not playing thier best football" is a bit overblown. I would agree they weren't beating teams like they were earlier in the year. However, I think that's a function of playing a tougher schedule. Every team they played late in the year was either playing to get into the playoffs or for positioning within the playoffs.


I can't speak to all of the games Dallas played down the stretch, the Redskin and Carolina games were the only ones I saw. My only point is that there was a stretch of the season where the Dallas offense was on a level close to NE. The last few games it has not been remotely close to that level. Whatever the case may be, it has looked out of sync. That is not to say you guys couldn't easily hang 35 up on us.

With the Redskin game, I also think you are a little underselling the effort you guys put forth. Wade even kept the starters in longer then he planned to try to get a little bit of success before the playoffs but they simply couldn't get anything going.



We'll see. You think Coughlin is a better coach than Phillips?


Yes. Yes. and Yes. He is 1-2 now as the Giant head coach however with Jax he had plenty of success in the playoffs. And the 2 losses the Giants had in the playoffs under him were more defensive issues. Eli scored with 2 min left last year to take the lead on Philly but Tim Lewis' defense folded (as it always did) and vs. Carolina we started 3 LB's basically off the street (Kevin Lewis, Roman Phifer, Griesen).

Phillips meanwhile has never won a big game and has invented new ways to lose (Music City Miracle).



Really, Dallas doesn't blitz much. Bringing 5 for their 3-4 is not a blitz. They just bring people from lots of different areas so it looks like they are blitzing, but most of the time they bring the 3 linemen & 2 OLBers.


You guys might not blitz much, but TB was one of the least blitzing teams in the NFL. They got to Eli a few times but he was not under siege nearly as much as he has been at times this year. Spencer, Ware, Canty, and co. could force Eli into some sloppy plays.



This is where I think this has been a big mismatch for NY. Their strength is their pass rush and the strength of the Dallas OL is pass blocking. This will be a critical part of the game. If Romo has time, the Giant secondary can be exposed. I think the Giants have to get SACKS because Romo actually can hurt you worse if he's flushed out of the pocket.





I agree with you. I personally think the Giants would probably be best served blitzing selectively and settling into coverage. Last year Romo was only average from the pocket and if you kept him contained he had trouble making plays, though this year he has looked much better in that regard.

Either way these are 2 teams that are very similar and evenly matched. Dallas' team has proven more and has more talent when it comes down to it, but not as much more as you would think judging by pro bowl numbers (what is it 12-2?). With the momentum/karma the Giants have going, the development of a few potential impact makers, and the TO injury status this should make for one hell of an exciting game.

D-Unit
01-10-2008, 06:38 PM
Here's a question. Do you believe in game to game momentum? I don't. I believe and understand "in-game" momentum, but I don't care if a team is coming off a 10 game winning streak, that has nothing to do with winning the next game. The Giants have been getting hyped as the team with all the momentum because of their past wins. I'm not going to believe that that is going to help them this weekend.

Giants Pride
01-10-2008, 07:33 PM
Here's a question. Do you believe in game to game momentum? I don't. I believe and understand "in-game" momentum, but I don't care if a team is coming off a 10 game winning streak, that has nothing to do with winning the next game. The Giants have been getting hyped as the team with all the momentum because of their past wins. I'm not going to believe that that is going to help them this weekend.

Its not a question of the hype momentum they are getting. I think every Giant fan would tell you that we would rather not getting any pub going into the game. The momentum is coming from the confidence and rhythm the Giants offense is gaining (specifically Eli and the playcalling) and the emergence of a few key players (Boss, Bradshaw, Plax looks healthy, Toomer has had 2 big games in a row, Gerris Wilkerson, and to a much lesser extent Corey Webster). Also our special teams play over the last 2 months has been among the best in the league.

Also as an aside, I think game to game momentum has to be looked at on a case by case basis. In 2000, there was no question that Giant team developed a swagger from when they were 8-4 to eventually get to 12-4. By the same token you can look at the Colts last year who were miserable going into the playoffs but "turned on the switch" when the playoffs came. I think sometimes we just look at results (like the Redskins this year) and think that because a team won "x" number of games in a row they have momentum. When you look at the Skins they just hit some teams at the right time (Cowboys no TO and nothing to play for etc.). The Giants on the other hand have really seemed to change in the last 2 games. I know the Bucs are a bad offensive team, but the most important development for the Giants is Eli Manning's play and against the best turnover defense in the league he was completely in control.

D-Unit
01-10-2008, 08:02 PM
Its not a question of the hype momentum they are getting. I think every Giant fan would tell you that we would rather not getting any pub going into the game. The momentum is coming from the confidence and rhythm the Giants offense is gaining (specifically Eli and the playcalling) and the emergence of a few key players (Boss, Bradshaw, Plax looks healthy, Toomer has had 2 big games in a row, Gerris Wilkerson, and to a much lesser extent Corey Webster). Also our special teams play over the last 2 months has been among the best in the league.

Also as an aside, I think game to game momentum has to be looked at on a case by case basis. In 2000, there was no question that Giant team developed a swagger from when they were 8-4 to eventually get to 12-4. By the same token you can look at the Colts last year who were miserable going into the playoffs but "turned on the switch" when the playoffs came. I think sometimes we just look at results (like the Redskins this year) and think that because a team won "x" number of games in a row they have momentum. When you look at the Skins they just hit some teams at the right time (Cowboys no TO and nothing to play for etc.). The Giants on the other hand have really seemed to change in the last 2 games. I know the Bucs are a bad offensive team, but the most important development for the Giants is Eli Manning's play and against the best turnover defense in the league he was completely in control.
I can understand the growth and development of the team and chemistry, but I can't say the team that shows up to play this Sunday is the same Giants team that showed up against the Bucs last Sunday. Just the same as I know that the Giants team we faced in Week 1 was different from the team that we faced in Week 10 and it'll be a different team again this weekend.

You guys have to feel good about yourselves heading into this game. In fact, I consider you guys the favorites. All the logic points to you guys winning. All the analysts out there are favoring you guys for all the right reasons. ...and those guys love to be right.

That said. I know the Boys will win.

Number 10
01-10-2008, 08:40 PM
D I know you are trying to use the cautiously optimistic here....but come on now. Giants are the favorites? I think this is the toughest of all the games to call this weekend but the Cowboys personell is flat out better. Eli played well in both matchups, and we still lost by 10+ points both times. He is often pointed to as the X factor but in all honesty, it's on our defense. A defense that relies on it's line, a line that has been dominated by the Cowboys offensive line. Add to that....our #1 CB is likely out, negating the whole TO issue.

The Giants are basically going to need a special teams TD of defensive TD to win this game I think...something really has to go our way. Or the refs can decide NOT to call outrageous holding penalties on TDs.

Macarthur
01-10-2008, 08:42 PM
I've really enjoyed the solid exchange. Here's hoping for a great game.

bigbluedefense
01-10-2008, 08:50 PM
i really really want to discuss this with you guys. its great to have a convo like this going. but im superstitious, and i won't talk about the Giants (outside of draft/FA talk) until our season is over.

having that said, Dallas is the team to beat until proven otherwise. this year is the exact opposite to last year for dallas. last year, everything that could go wrong, went wrong.

this year, everything is bouncing Dallas's way. i still think theyre the favorite to go to the SB until proven otherwise.

D-Unit
01-10-2008, 08:51 PM
D I know you are trying to use the cautiously optimistic here....but come on now. Giants are the favorites? I think this is the toughest of all the games to call this weekend but the Cowboys personell is flat out better. Eli played well in both matchups, and we still lost by 10+ points both times. He is often pointed to as the X factor but in all honesty, it's on our defense. A defense that relies on it's line, a line that has been dominated by the Cowboys offensive line. Add to that....our #1 CB is likely out, negating the whole TO issue.

The Giants are basically going to need a special teams TD of defensive TD to win this game I think...something really has to go our way. Or the refs can decide NOT to call outrageous holding penalties on TDs.
Eli has typically played exceptionally well against us. He's been frustrating as an opposing fan to see constantly slip by our pass rush. This year has been a little different from year's past because we actually got to him, but I still remember the other Eli. If that guy shows up, this game will be a war.

That said... Anthony Henry loves to play against Eli. I'm glad he's healthy.

People keep talkin up the absence of TO. I think WRs are overrated. If you have a good QB and he gets protection, the ball will move downfield.

The use of Julius Jones scares me more than anything. He needs to be limited. Let Barber tote the rock and we should be able to counter the Giants pass rush and control the time of possession.

Giants Pride
01-10-2008, 08:57 PM
I can understand the growth and development of the team and chemistry, but I can't say the team that shows up to play this Sunday is the same Giants team that showed up against the Bucs last Sunday. Just the same as I know that the Giants team we faced in Week 1 was different from the team that we faced in Week 10 and it'll be a different team again this weekend.

You guys have to feel good about yourselves heading into this game. In fact, I consider you guys the favorites. All the logic points to you guys winning. All the analysts out there are favoring you guys for all the right reasons. ...and those guys love to be right.

That said. I know the Boys will win.

I don't really know what your point is here. If TO is himself, I would agree with you and probably pick you guys to win the game. I don't really know what relevance that has here because nobody has really disputed that, we have been simply pointing out the good things that have been happening with our team.

I also think you are grossly overestimating the support the media has for the Giants. There have definitely been a number of people jumping on the Giants bandwagon but realistically AT BEST 1 out of 3 reporters are picking the Giants, and that is with the assumption that TO might not play, which in the end he will. People are starting to consider the Giants a threat but they are far from a favorite. This is the same team that was almost unanimously picked to lost to the Bucs (all of the FOX pregame, all of the inside the NFL cast, Peter King, and countless more). That's probably why its best to ignore the media and not use them as a gauge to make generalizations.

Number 10
01-10-2008, 09:16 PM
As for the media-NYG relation....

They usually underrate them to the point where the Giants start making them look like fools. But once the media jumps on...they fall in the tank and lose a game they should win. So if you think the media really is favoring the Giants, which I don't see, then you should be happy.

D-Unit
01-10-2008, 09:24 PM
I don't really know what your point is here. If TO is himself, I would agree with you and probably pick you guys to win the game. I don't really know what relevance that has here because nobody has really disputed that, we have been simply pointing out the good things that have been happening with our team.

I also think you are grossly overestimating the support the media has for the Giants. There have definitely been a number of people jumping on the Giants bandwagon but realistically AT BEST 1 out of 3 reporters are picking the Giants, and that is with the assumption that TO might not play, which in the end he will. People are starting to consider the Giants a threat but they are far from a favorite. This is the same team that was almost unanimously picked to lost to the Bucs (all of the FOX pregame, all of the inside the NFL cast, Peter King, and countless more). That's probably why its best to ignore the media and not use them as a gauge to make generalizations.
I turn the TV on to ESPN and they're all talkin' up the Giants. I haven't watched today's coverage, but it's been sickening hearing everyone talk about how much momentum they have versus the Cowboys who supposedly hasn't played a good half of football since the first half of the GB game.

That is my point. Everyone is saying the Giants have the momentum and that will help them win.

My point is that I don't believe in game to game momentum. I don't care how many games you have won in a row, it's meaningless in determining whether or not you'll win the next game.

I don't believe having TO makes or breaks it. We can win with or without him. We can lose with or without him.

I believe we will win, but the so-called "logic" out there says otherwise.

D-Unit
01-10-2008, 09:31 PM
As for the media-NYG relation....

They usually underrate them to the point where the Giants start making them look like fools. But once the media jumps on...they fall in the tank and lose a game they should win. So if you think the media really is favoring the Giants, which I don't see, then you should be happy.
This is why I keep hearing the Cowboys will lose... in no particular order.

1) Giants have all the momentum.
2) Cowboys will not have TO and if they do, they'll have an injured one.
3) Terry Glenn is not who he used to be.
4) Tony Romo and Jason Witten went to Cabo San Luca (or whatever it's called) during the bye week.
5) Patrick Crayton got married... brought the whole team... celebrating like the season's over.
6) Tony Romo can't play with Jessica Simpson in the stands.
7) The Giants are gelling as a team and are playing their best ball of the season.
8) Kevin Boss is all of sudden a folk hero.
9) Cowboys will be rusty coming off a bye.
10) Roy Williams, the worst safety in the league made it to the Pro Bowl causing more external distractions.
11) Home field advantage means nothing in this game.

I could probably think up more real quick, but I gtg. See ya chaps!

Number 10
01-10-2008, 09:33 PM
D-

The Cowboys without TO are incredibly beatable....I mean go look at what he did in the previous 2 contests between these two teams. If he somehow did not play, I'd be shocked if we lost. He makes that much of a difference.

And the whole motivation thing....well I think it has more to do with confidence. Eli looks more confident in the pocket than he ever has, and that is not a "I hope we win" exaggeration. He is looking people off, pump faking...really going through progressions. It seems like the alter in the playbook greatly benefitted him. Corey Webster made a big play in the Buffalo game a few weeks ago for the first time in....well forever and he goes to Tampa Bay and shuts down Galloway by himself and walks away with a pick in the end zone. Aaron Ross made a couple of nice plays in week 2...and it really elevated his game. Confidence goes a long way.

Number 10
01-10-2008, 09:35 PM
This is why I keep hearing the Cowboys will lose... in no particular order.

1) Giants have all the momentum.
2) Cowboys will not have TO and if they do, they'll have an injured one.
3) Terry Glenn is not who he used to be.
4) Tony Romo and Jason Witten went to Cabo San Luca (or whatever it's called) during the bye week.
5) Patrick Crayton got married... brought the whole team... celebrating like the season's over.
6) Tony Romo can't play with Jessica Simpson in the stands.
7) The Giants are gelling as a team and are playing their best ball of the season.
8) Kevin Boss is all of sudden a folk hero.
9) Cowboys will be rusty coming off a bye.
10) Roy Williams, the worst safety in the league made it to the Pro Bowl causing more external distractions.
11) Home field advantage means nothing in this game.

I could probably think up more real quick, but I gtg. See ya chaps!

Discount all of those.

Except for #8....and Roy thought he would have it easy without Shockey this week.

Giants Pride
01-10-2008, 09:35 PM
As for the media-NYG relation....

They usually underrate them to the point where the Giants start making them look like fools. But once the media jumps on...they fall in the tank and lose a game they should win. So if you think the media really is favoring the Giants, which I don't see, then you should be happy.

Luckily it seems that our Giants have found a way to give themselves a chip on their shoulder, remains to be seen if it works or not

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2008/01/giants-playing-underdog-card-t.html

D-unit - agree to disagree I guess. The Giants are getting hype, but thats all. Everything gets overhyped by the media, especially when there are only 4 games to talk about. In my mind hype doesn't necessarily mean logic, and on the shows that i have seen this week as much as anyone says "Eli has arrived", or "the Giants are gaining momentum", the Cowboys are still the team getting picked to win.

TO is as much of an offensive force as any player in the game. He had perhaps his best season, and is the most important player on one of the best offensive teams over the last decade. Not to mention the little fact that he KILLS the Giants. San Fran, Philly, Cowboys, it doesn't matter. He is a lethal player who shows up in big games. If he is healthy he will be the best player on the field Sunday.

Giants Pride
01-10-2008, 11:11 PM
Just to backup what I was saying before about TO being a Giant killer. Here are TO's career stats vs. the Giants (as posted over at BBI).



8-1 (W-L)

11/30/98 5 catches 140 yards 1 TD
9/05/02 4 catches 41 yards 0 TD
1/5/03 9 catches 177 yards 2 TD (playoffs)
9/12/04 8 catches 68 yards 3 TD
11/28/04 4 catches 64 yards 0 TD
10/23/06 6 catches 98 yards 1 TD (only loss vs NYG)
12/3/06 8 catches 84 yards 0 TD
9/9/07 3 catches 87 yards 2 TD
11/11/07 6 catches 125 yards 2 TD

Thats 9 games, 53 catches 884 yards 11 TD

Project that over a 16 game season, thats 94 catches 1,572 yards and 20 TDs

HEISMANHERSCHEL
01-10-2008, 11:21 PM
I honestly think the cowboys should win. I would say talent wise, the cowboys have more talent. Simply put, the cowboys have the horses.

However, the giants always scare me for one reason. Their FREAKIN defensive ends. I may put to much emphasis on a great pass rush, but so be it. The defensive line scares the crap out of me.

The comment made earlier about the cowboys o-line beating up the giants d-line is intriguing. I dont remember that, but have not watched the tape again either. It is completly possible, and that would explain two wins over the giants.

I agree with D-units assessment that game to game momentum is overrated. I would lean towards the flow of a game, as opposed to the flow through the late part of the season.

And I am not buying the materation of Eli. He may be getting better, but I wont believe he has taken a step until he wins this game. At that point, I will eat crow.

Even though D-Unit is one of my favorite posters on the entire forum, I am also going to call him out on the cautious optimism. Cowboys are a better football team. Period. He knows that.

I would not be at all suprised to see the evil Giants win the game. In fact, I am afraid of it. However, they shouldnt. Doesnt mean they cant. They are a very good team as well.

And they better not. I am going to the game, and this is my first professional football game to attend. Pretty sad, considering I am 31 years old. Actually, it is pathetic...

Number 10
01-10-2008, 11:33 PM
I honestly think the cowboys should win. I would say talent wise, the cowboys have more talent. Simply put, the cowboys have the horses.

However, the giants always scare me for one reason. Their FREAKIN defensive ends. I may put to much emphasis on a great pass rush, but so be it. The defensive line scares the crap out of me.

The comment made earlier about the cowboys o-line beating up the giants d-line is intriguing. I dont remember that, but have not watched the tape again either. It is completly possible, and that would explain two wins over the giants.

I agree with D-units assessment that game to game momentum is overrated. I would lean towards the flow of a game, as opposed to the flow through the late part of the season.

And I am not buying the materation of Eli. He may be getting better, but I wont believe he has taken a step until he wins this game. At that point, I will eat crow.

Even though D-Unit is one of my favorite posters on the entire forum, I am also going to call him out on the cautious optimism. Cowboys are a better football team. Period. He knows that.

I would not be at all suprised to see the evil Giants win the game. In fact, I am afraid of it. However, they shouldnt. Doesnt mean they cant. They are a very good team as well.

And they better not. I am going to the game, and this is my first professional football game to attend. Pretty sad, considering I am 31 years old. Actually, it is pathetic...

I watched both game tapes for my game preview....Cowboys absolutely mauled the Giants defensive line, especially against the run up the middle. I have been told by someone reliable that Spags has tweaked something with the pass rush this week...whether or not it works may be the game breaker.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-10-2008, 11:39 PM
I have been talking to Ralph V via email, and read some stuff from someone close to the giants staff, the we cut down alot of the option heavy routes from our playbook. I believe Phil simms talked about it as well on Sirius too. So the playbook finally got edited, the week leading up to the pats game.

This thing we see with Eli may not be maturing, but a result of the idiot Kilrdrive finally simplifying things so that eli can use his ability and play. Same with the Wrs, now they don't have to think so much, which can be contributed to 40 something, league leading drops. I think it's a culimination of everything thats finally taking place.

For giants fans, notice no more ball going one way, and wr going another. That BS magically seemed to disappear. I, for one, am glad Kildrive and TC finally woke up and fixed this god awful system.

Giants Pride
01-10-2008, 11:42 PM
Dallas has 12 pro bowlers the Giants have 1. The pro bowl means jack ****, but in terms of players hype and talent that is a pretty big difference. The biggest worries I have in this game are the Dallas Oline and TO. If we stop the big plays and keep the Dline from getting worn down I think we win this game. I wonder if Spags would try starting the game out with some beef in the middle (I dont know if that would be Manny Wright or Russell Davis) just to set the tone. Its too bad Marcus Bell didnt work out. He is by no means a difference maker, but he had a few years where he was very tough to move.

Giants Pride
01-10-2008, 11:45 PM
I have been talking to Ralph V via email, and read some stuff from someone close to the giants staff, the we cut down alot of the option heavy routes from our playbook. I believe Phil simms talked about it as well on Sirius too. So the playbook finally got edited, the week leading up to the pats game.

This thing we see with Eli may not be maturing, but a result of the idiot Kilrdrive finally simplifying things so that eli can use his ability and play. Same with the Wrs, now they don't have to think so much, which can be contributed to 40 something, league leading drops. I think it's a culimination of everything thats finally taking place.

For giants fans, notice no more ball going one way, and wr going another. That BS magically seemed to disappear. I, for one, am glad Kildrive and TC finally woke up and fixed this god awful system.

Another thing is that Eli's pump faking is a direct result of the elimination of option routes. If you don't know what your WR is going to do, how can you fake something? If Eli faked a hitch for example, and his WR chose to run a hitch route, Eli just bated the defense into a pick. Now Eli knows what his WRs are going to do so he can fake what they aren't going to do. There is no uncertainty.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-10-2008, 11:51 PM
Another thing is that Eli's pump faking is a direct result of the elimination of option routes. If you don't know what your WR is going to do, how can you fake something? If Eli faked a hitch for example, and his WR chose to run a hitch route, Eli just bated the defense into a pick. Now Eli knows what his WRs are going to do so he can fake what they aren't going to do. There is no uncertainty.


yeah you don't want to pump fake on a option route, because if he throws it, and the wr is doing something else based on what he thinks the secondary is playing then you're screwed. That's why in the Minny game the hot read was Shockey, but the fool never turned around, and it was picked.

Notice in two games NEVER once, did we have an issue with that. It's basic stuff we are throwing. For instance out of i pro right formation, we ran play action against the Bucs, and Boss went to the flat, took Brooks with him, bradshaw ran a curl in the hook zone, keeping Ruud in tow, and Hedgecock ran to the other flat to the left, bringing Nece with him, meaning Plax and Toomer were the only Wrs.

Tv angle cut Plax's route but I am guessing he kept going bringing Barber and Philips with him, and this allowed Toomer to run a curl route, easily for a first down. Simple stuff we are doing rather than option routes which means that the Wrs and Eli have to be reading the same things. If not you get what his career has been so far. Funny how finally simplifying things has helped Eli and this offense out.

Giants Pride
01-11-2008, 12:05 AM
yeah you don't want to pump fake on a option route, because if he throws it, and the wr is doing something else based on what he thinks the secondary is playing then you're screwed. That's why in the Minny game the hot read was Shockey, but the fool never turned around, and it was picked.

Notice in two games NEVER once, did we have an issue with that. It's basic stuff we are throwing. For instance out of i pro right formation, we ran play action against the Bucs, and Boss went to the flat, took Brooks with him, bradshaw ran a curl in the hook zone, keeping Ruud in tow, and Hedgecock ran to the other flat to the left, bringing Nece with him, meaning Plax and Toomer were the only Wrs.

Tv angle cut Plax's route but I am guessing he kept going bringing Barber and Philips with him, and this allowed Toomer to run a curl route, easily for a first down. Simple stuff we are doing rather than option routes which means that the Wrs and Eli have to be reading the same things. If not you get what his career has been so far. Funny how finally simplifying things has helped Eli and this offense out.

I kind of think this was really the perfect storm of factors that is leading to our success now. I mean Shockey going down didn't hurt us on the field, but I think that probably made the staff re-evaluate how complex the offense was for a rookie. So Shockey getting hurt lowered our talent level but also simplified our offense.

The other thing that works out great is the fact that other teams only have 2 games to see our new offense. The downside of simple is that it is easy for other teams to figure out. Especially when we are relying on guys who aren't that explosive (Toomer, Plax at 80%, Boss). However at this point teams don't have a full season to adjust. They can do the best they can to try to stop our suddenly efficient passing attack but that is just going to open up our running game. If we can get Moss back at some point and throw in a few deep routes and trick plays things could get very interesting for us. Teams would be totally off balance playing defense against us. My 1 fear is the fact that our WRs still are not that good. If Smith keeps stepping up we will be ok, but as reliable as Toomer is, every time he makes a catch there are 2 defenders within 2 feet of him.

Edit- I forgot to mention the suddenly potent kick returns and the emergence of Bradshaw.

Number 10
01-11-2008, 12:12 AM
yeah you don't want to pump fake on a option route, because if he throws it, and the wr is doing something else based on what he thinks the secondary is playing then you're screwed. That's why in the Minny game the hot read was Shockey, but the fool never turned around, and it was picked.

Notice in two games NEVER once, did we have an issue with that. It's basic stuff we are throwing. For instance out of i pro right formation, we ran play action against the Bucs, and Boss went to the flat, took Brooks with him, bradshaw ran a curl in the hook zone, keeping Ruud in tow, and Hedgecock ran to the other flat to the left, bringing Nece with him, meaning Plax and Toomer were the only Wrs.

Tv angle cut Plax's route but I am guessing he kept going bringing Barber and Philips with him, and this allowed Toomer to run a curl route, easily for a first down. Simple stuff we are doing rather than option routes which means that the Wrs and Eli have to be reading the same things. If not you get what his career has been so far. Funny how finally simplifying things has helped Eli and this offense out.

Honestly....the scary thing is there have been a few of us that have been calling for this from the get-go. We have been saying that way too much was put on Eli's plate as opposed to Rivers and Ben....the differences were astronomical. I remember writing an article for Giants 101 awhile ago about Eli needing to use a pump fake more often. I'm far from a QB expert, it's actually what I struggle with most in analysis, but even I could tell what was wrong with Eli. Really proves that coaches in the NFL really aren't as smart as some make them out to be...it has always been and will always be about who you know. Gilbride simply is not a good coach.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
01-11-2008, 12:23 AM
Number 10-

Since you watched the game more than once, which Cowboy made the biggest difference against your team?

I am wondering, because it seems that Ware gave yall fits. However, I did not watch the game multiple times, so I was wondering from your point of view.

D-Unit
01-11-2008, 03:40 AM
Number 10-

Since you watched the game more than once, which Cowboy made the biggest difference against your team?

I am wondering, because it seems that Ware gave yall fits. However, I did not watch the game multiple times, so I was wondering from your point of view.
HH, you're one of the cooler Dallas fans here too. But I think you missed the part where I said I believe the Cowboys will win. ;)

It doesn't matter if I think we're the more dominant team. I know on paper we are. Thing is... burn the paper... This game will be won on the field by the team that executes the best.

Number 10
01-11-2008, 08:53 AM
Number 10-

Since you watched the game more than once, which Cowboy made the biggest difference against your team?

I am wondering, because it seems that Ware gave yall fits. However, I did not watch the game multiple times, so I was wondering from your point of view.

TO is the guy that makes the difference. His injured ankle will help us out a bit but we might be without 2 of our top 3 CBs.

Defensively...Henry has had some success against us and Ware has had his way with Diehl at LT. I would say those two are the ones that need to be stopped in order for us to win.

Macarthur
01-11-2008, 10:48 AM
I have been told by someone reliable that Spags has tweaked something with the pass rush this week...whether or not it works may be the game breaker.

NOthing personal, but this is the kind of thing that perplexed me about some of the media. I was watching the NFL network and Sharpe & Baldinger were talking up the Giants. Baldinger was talking about how the Giants know the Cowboys and how they will do this or that and how they have probably broken down more tape than anyone on the Cowboys, etc...

Did it ever occur to him that the Cowboys just might have watched some tape on the Giants and are capable of making adjustments also!

bigmac076
01-11-2008, 10:56 AM
a very banged up Giants' secondary (Madison, Dockery) against a very banged up Cowboys' WR core (Owens, Glenn) will tell the tale. I think Witten will be the X factor.

Number 10
01-11-2008, 11:12 AM
a very banged up Giants' secondary (Madison, Dockery) against a very banged up Cowboys' WR core (Owens, Glenn) will tell the tale. I think Witten will be the X factor.

Well it looks like we finally have a LB that can cover, so hopefully it will come down to Witten.

Number 10
01-11-2008, 11:15 AM
NOthing personal, but this is the kind of thing that perplexed me about some of the media. I was watching the NFL network and Sharpe & Baldinger were talking up the Giants. Baldinger was talking about how the Giants know the Cowboys and how they will do this or that and how they have probably broken down more tape than anyone on the Cowboys, etc...

Did it ever occur to him that the Cowboys just might have watched some tape on the Giants and are capable of making adjustments also!

I think your issue is that you are taking way too much offense to what the media is saying. Who cares what they say? In the end, they are no different that any fan out there with a prediction.

Forenci
01-11-2008, 12:34 PM
It's also worthy to note that since Kiwanuka is out, I feel like we're going to better contain Witten this game. Just my thought though. Not to mention since Gibril has swapped to free safety it's not really his job anymore to cover the TE - which should work better for us.

I'm hoping we match Gerris Wilkinson on Witten the entire game as he's easily our best cover LB and I feel like he could the difference this time around as far as keeping Witten in check.

That's a big if though, and I haven't bought into it completely yet.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2008, 12:38 PM
Honestly....the scary thing is there have been a few of us that have been calling for this from the get-go. We have been saying that way too much was put on Eli's plate as opposed to Rivers and Ben....the differences were astronomical. I remember writing an article for Giants 101 awhile ago about Eli needing to use a pump fake more often. I'm far from a QB expert, it's actually what I struggle with most in analysis, but even I could tell what was wrong with Eli. Really proves that coaches in the NFL really aren't as smart as some make them out to be...it has always been and will always be about who you know. Gilbride simply is not a good coach.


Problem with the pump fake before is that it won't fool anyone because alot of the routes were option routes. So pump faking wouldn't work in my opinion. Now it will because the routes are simplier.

Number 10
01-11-2008, 12:54 PM
Problem with the pump fake before is that it won't fool anyone because alot of the routes were option routes. So pump faking wouldn't work in my opinion. Now it will because the routes are simplier.

I disagree....defenses don't know when an option route is called. They also don't know which receivers are running option routes. The pump fake has been Peyton Manning's best friend the past few years, he has that move down to a science. And you talk about an offense that runs a lot of option routes....

Jughead10
01-11-2008, 01:05 PM
In my opinion, I'm not so sure the option routes have confused Eli as they have confused Shockey and Burress as to which option they should have been running. Eli was throwing the ball to places where he thought they should be and they weren't.

As for the tweak to the pass rush. I don't know exactly what you were referring to, but Osi said the first two meeting with Dallas they weren't exactly rushing the passer. He said they were playing more contain. The ends weren't always trying to get to Romo instead were just trying to contain the outside. All scouting reports up until that time said Romo is much better on the run and can make bad throw in the pocket. Well Romo burned us in the pocket. Osi said this week you will see them actually trying to get at Romo and if he beats them to an open flat well then he beats them.

Jughead10
01-11-2008, 01:32 PM
We'll see. You think Coughlin is a better coach than Phillips?

Saw this a ways back and wanted to comment on it. I think this is pretty much a no brainer. What has Wade ever done as a head coach? Going 13-3 is by far his greatest accomplishment and many want to put that feat more on the shoudlers of Garrett than Phillips. Wade is still 0-3 in the playoffs, and basically the biggest reason he was hired as Cowboys head coach in the first place is that he was a born and raised Texan. There was a reason so many teams passed him over before the Cowboys hired him.

Giants Pride
01-11-2008, 01:35 PM
In my opinion, I'm not so sure the option routes have confused Eli as they have confused Shockey and Burress as to which option they should have been running. Eli was throwing the ball to places where he thought they should be and they weren't.


I think you nailed it there. Plax hasn't been practicing and we all know even when he was he and Eli were never totally on the same page. Not to mention the offseason training crap. Eli Didn't have the luxury Peyton had with Wayne and Harrison running 500 routes a day with him. Not to mention Peyton's WRs are just flat out better then ours.

I don't think this means Eli is suddenly an unstoppable force, our WR talent isn't good enough to say that, but going up against a team that has not been good against the pass this year (Cowboys) Eli should play well.


As for the tweak to the pass rush. I don't know exactly what you were referring to, but Osi said the first two meeting with Dallas they weren't exactly rushing the passer. He said they were playing more contain. The ends weren't always trying to get to Romo instead were just trying to contain the outside. All scouting reports up until that time said Romo is much better on the run and can make bad throw in the pocket. Well Romo burned us in the pocket. Osi said this week you will see them actually trying to get at Romo and if he beats them to an open flat well then he beats them.

I really don't know what Spags is going to do. The more time goes on the clearer it becomes that our defense is banged up and simply not very talented. Our DEs are as good as any in the league, but our LB's and DB's might be as bad as any in the league (talent wise). We do have a good scheme and Spags has done a great job dialing up blitzes and keeping the games competitive. Assuming Eli is playing well, the key for our team making any noise is going to be creating turnovers. Our defense isn't good enough to hold down good offenses for an entire game (the Pats game) so we are going to need turnovers to get them off the field.

bigbluedefense
01-11-2008, 02:05 PM
you guys are getting me SO PUMPED UP!! lmfao.


man i have so much to say, and alot of what is said i agree with, i want to add some wrinkles myself but my superstition won't allow me to discuss em just yet.

i'm waiting until the season is over before i comment on the Giants.


Terrell Owens owns us. I fear him more than anyone. Even at 50%. Its not like we have a healthy Burress on the other side either.

We lose the war in the trenches on both sides against Dallas. Your pass rush always gives our oline fits, Dallas got to Eli better than any team. And your oline owns our dline. Theyre too big and strong. Not good for us Giants fans.

D-Unit
01-11-2008, 02:20 PM
you guys are getting me SO PUMPED UP!! lmfao.


man i have so much to say, and alot of what is said i agree with, i want to add some wrinkles myself but my superstition won't allow me to discuss em just yet.

i'm waiting until the season is over before i comment on the Giants.


Terrell Owens owns us. I fear him more than anyone. Even at 50%. Its not like we have a healthy Burress on the other side either.

We lose the war in the trenches on both sides against Dallas. Your pass rush always gives our oline fits, Dallas got to Eli better than any team. And your oline owns our dline. Theyre too big and strong. Not good for us Giants fans.
That's funny... when I think of the Giants, I think of their strong run blocking OL and fiercely attacking defensive front. They're gonna go right at each other on Sunday. I think both sides will have their share of battles won throughout the game. This is for all the marbles. Loser goes home.

Forenci
01-11-2008, 02:52 PM
Well, as in most games, this will likely come down to whichever team wins the battle in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

In terms of defensive line, I'd say we're slightly better, in terms of offensive line - we're out matched plain and simple. Should be interesting.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-11-2008, 03:08 PM
I disagree....defenses don't know when an option route is called. They also don't know which receivers are running option routes. The pump fake has been Peyton Manning's best friend the past few years, he has that move down to a science. And you talk about an offense that runs a lot of option routes....

It's not normally called, from what I been a part of. It's impromtu, to move a defender or hold a defender in a specfic zone. It depends on how they prepare. They may use scouting and combo routes to determine what coverage is being played and what routes are always adjusted based on it. That's where route reading by defenders come into play. They read the route depending on the coverage. Like wise, they know what coverage is being played, and through film know what the WR is do to react. Hence the chess game always being played.

Yeah works in their system, and also pretty amazing how everyone is reading the same thing and insync with the qb. Shows how hard it is to execute a heavy playbook of option routes.

Macarthur
01-12-2008, 12:35 AM
Saw this a ways back and wanted to comment on it. I think this is pretty much a no brainer. What has Wade ever done as a head coach? Going 13-3 is by far his greatest accomplishment and many want to put that feat more on the shoudlers of Garrett than Phillips. Wade is still 0-3 in the playoffs,

Well, Wade got robbed with the music city miracle.

I wouldn't argue that Coughlin may be a better coach, but I don't think that gap is as big as you. Go back and really look at what Wade has done; he's been a pretty good HC.

and basically the biggest reason he was hired as Cowboys head coach in the first place is that he was a born and raised Texan.

That is complete nonsense.

Giants Pride
01-12-2008, 10:52 AM
Well, Wade got robbed with the music city miracle.

I wouldn't argue that Coughlin may be a better coach, but I don't think that gap is as big as you. Go back and really look at what Wade has done; he's been a pretty good HC.



Wade is responsible for 2 of the worst playoff losses of all time. You can say the music city miracle robbed him, but that is the same as saying Fassel was robbed by 1 bad snap. Losses are losses that simply. For all the times we thought we were losing close games with bad luck, in the end when you look back, it was just sloppy coaching, which tends to rear its head at inopportune times.

People can say what they want about Coughlin and god knows we Giants fans have had enough complaints about him. His accomplishments at Jax however are basically unmatched. He took an expansion team to 2 championship games (once being their second year). He kicked the crap out of Jimmy Johnson, and if you can remember back that far, even in the games where they were heavy underdogs (Champ game vs. the Pats for example) they always gave the other team all they could handle.

I personally think the #1 reason Wade was hired in Dallas is because they wanted to find someone with enough experience to keep the 3-4 in place. They already had Garrett in pocket so they figured whoever else they got could focus on defense. With Garrett in place they were not going to hire a young coach without HC experience. When you look at the pool of unemployed coaches/coordinators and you narrow it down to people with experience running a successful 3-4 and experience as a head coach there simply aren't that many choices.

Now that strategy worked for the Cowboys this year as it kept the momentum they had built up under Parcells going forward. The problem I see is that it is terribly short sighted. The most important aspect of a head coach is his leadership and ability to motivate, and those are not 2 of Wade's strong suits. Tuna is also raiding your personnel department so that is just going to mean more Jerry Jones influence. I guess we will see what happens, and this opinion is somewhat biased, but I genuinely believe the Cowboys are going to have problems going forward, as early as next season.

hugegmenfan
01-12-2008, 11:55 AM
just gotta say- im only 18, so this may b biased, but this is the most excited and nervous i have ever been for a giants game in my entire life. its not even the championship game or super bowl, but just the fact we r playing the boys for a 3rd time after 2 recent great performances has me soooo pumped for sunday

HEISMANHERSCHEL
01-13-2008, 02:59 AM
Well, here I am. 2:58 in the morning before the game, which I have tickets too, and I cant sleep...

I hope our game is as good as the two I watched today.

To take a page from Jack Del Rio's pst game confrence, I hope the Gmen's defensive ends slip on the way to work today. They make me nervous.

Macarthur
01-13-2008, 09:11 PM
Congrats. Your defense did what they needed to do in the 2nd half.

Number 10
01-13-2008, 09:22 PM
Congrats. Your defense did what they needed to do in the 2nd half.

And Eli gave us a 3rd straight solid performance. I'm telling you, he has turned the corner.

Macarthur
01-13-2008, 09:36 PM
Yeah, I guess Eli was solid. However, as a Cowboys fan, had you told me we would hold you guys to 180 something passing and under 100 rushing, plus only give up 21....I would have thought we would have won by double digits again.

Your defensive line outplayed our OL in the 2nd half. Plain & Simple.

Giants Pride
01-13-2008, 10:23 PM
Yeah, I guess Eli was solid. However, as a Cowboys fan, had you told me we would hold you guys to 180 something passing and under 100 rushing, plus only give up 21....I would have thought we would have won by double digits again.

Your defensive line outplayed our OL in the 2nd half. Plain & Simple.

Not trying to rub salt in wounds just simply my opinion, but you guys just weren't sharp/on the same page. Missed some big tackles, bad penalties, and bad drops. The last guy who deserves blame in my opinion is Romo, cause he really made a ton of plays out there. What was he 8/8 on 3rd down at one point? I thought we were done when we went 3 and out with 5 minutes left, and I was readying the shot glasses (not for celebrating) when we punted after the 2 minute warning. Somehow Eli, Coughlin, and Spags lifted the team and got the job done.

Congrats on a great season. With Ware, Witten, Barber, and Romo you guys will have at least 9 or 10 wins every year. At least you have a fun draft to look forward to.

Chucky
01-13-2008, 10:25 PM
And Eli gave us a 3rd straight solid performance. I'm telling you, he has turned the corner.

This is about the tenth time he has "turned the corner", IMO it takes a full season to "turn the corner"

NY+Giants=NYG
01-13-2008, 10:29 PM
This is about the tenth time he has "turned the corner", IMO it takes a full season to "turn the corner"


It depends for each qb. Not everyone qb, system, and staff are the same. Some it takes a while others not. problem with all nfl fans is once you make an impression your stuck with that label good or bad. One thing can be said is that leading up to the pat game we simplified our system, mainly option routes, and took alot of them out. That alone, has made the difference.

Giants Pride
01-13-2008, 10:33 PM
This is about the tenth time he has "turned the corner", IMO it takes a full season to "turn the corner"

This is the 10th time the national media has proclaimed it, but if you notice, they tend to react over dramatically. Eli Manning has in fact arrived. In his career, even his best games, he maybe had 1 game where he was consistent for all 4 quarters. I would say you can count on 1 hand the amount of games he has had even 3 good quarters. And NEVER, I repeat, NEVER did he put up 2 good games in a row. Of any kind. That is out of 3 full seasons as a starter.

This is different. Over the past 3 games, all against top 10 defenses, intense nationally scrutinized environments on the road, and without 1 pro bowl player on his offense he has not had 1 bad quarter. Over that time he has only 1 turnover (which I personally blame on Burress) and 2 of his main targets are rookies. Also over that time there has been not one ball that bounces to a wide open WR or one of his classic high balls that goes straight into the FS's arms. Whether it is from the simplification of the playbook or just natural maturation (likely a combination) Eli Manning has elevated his game.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
01-13-2008, 10:54 PM
Just got back from drowning my sorrows after leaving the game. I will have to say it was a great game to watch. Very saddening, but it was a heckuva game. Im glad I went.

From where I sat, Dallas lost for two reason. The first was the offensive line did not play worth a crap the second half of the game. They looked tired. I thought the line was supposed to get stronger after running the ball so well in the first half of a game?

The second was I didnt think Romo had a good game. It was not all his fault by a long shot. The boys dropped some passes for sure. But it seemed to me Romo threw the ball away a few times when he shouldnt have and took a sack when he should have thrown the ball away. He also missed TO in the second quarter (I think). Then later, he under threw him really bad on a touchdown that should have been to the corner of the endzone.

Oh well...just do me this one favor.

Beat Green Bay so we can keep the NFC Championship in our division. I rarely root for the G-Men, and Im sure yall know what I mean by that. But now I am. I would like to say we lost to the NFC Champs!!!

Go G-Men!!???!!!???!!!??? That just sounds wrong. But do it for me.

NY+Giants=NYG
01-13-2008, 11:25 PM
Just got back from drowning my sorrows after leaving the game. I will have to say it was a great game to watch. Very saddening, but it was a heckuva game. Im glad I went.

From where I sat, Dallas lost for two reason. The first was the offensive line did not play worth a crap the second half of the game. They looked tired. I thought the line was supposed to get stronger after running the ball so well in the first half of a game?

The second was I didnt think Romo had a good game. It was not all his fault by a long shot. The boys dropped some passes for sure. But it seemed to me Romo threw the ball away a few times when he shouldnt have and took a sack when he should have thrown the ball away. He also missed TO in the second quarter (I think). Then later, he under threw him really bad on a touchdown that should have been to the corner of the endzone.

Oh well...just do me this one favor.

Beat Green Bay so we can keep the NFC Championship in our division. I rarely root for the G-Men, and Im sure yall know what I mean by that. But now I am. I would like to say we lost to the NFC Champs!!!

Go G-Men!!???!!!???!!!??? That just sounds wrong. But do it for me.



very classy on your part. You're the only fan non giant rooting for us.. reading stuff from other dallas fans they want us to lose, and other fans are posting in the GB section wanting them to win. But thanks for rooting for us. But seems like this underdog role is pretty damn fun. I am starting to like it!

Macarthur
01-14-2008, 09:15 AM
Not trying to rub salt in wounds just simply my opinion, but you guys just weren't sharp/on the same page. Missed some big tackles, bad penalties, and bad drops. The last guy who deserves blame in my opinion is Romo, cause he really made a ton of plays out there. What was he 8/8 on 3rd down at one point? I thought we were done when we went 3 and out with 5 minutes left, and I was readying the shot glasses (not for celebrating) when we punted after the 2 minute warning. Somehow Eli, Coughlin, and Spags lifted the team and got the job done.

Congrats on a great season. With Ware, Witten, Barber, and Romo you guys will have at least 9 or 10 wins every year. At least you have a fun draft to look forward to.

Well said.

We just were very sloppy. And for the life of me, I just can't understand the meltdown of our OL.

Giants Pride
01-14-2008, 11:16 AM
Well said.

We just were very sloppy. And for the life of me, I just can't understand the meltdown of our OL.

Not sure, but I think I heard Flozell sprained his MCL and gutted it out. That would definitely make it hard to contain a guy like Umenyiora. Also you guys stopped running which made it possible for us to keep Tuck at DT and also allowed Osi to go upfield which is his strength.

Macarthur
01-14-2008, 11:56 AM
Yeah, I do remember Flozell getting dinged towards the end.

Really, it just came down to your DL in the 2nd half. Plus, your coaches made some good adjustments.

Jughead10
01-14-2008, 11:59 AM
Yeah, I do remember Flozell getting dinged towards the end.

Really, it just came down to your DL in the 2nd half. Plus, your coaches made some good adjustments.

Was Phillips outcoached you say?

luee
04-17-2008, 05:28 AM
3 straight play-offs and a SB MVP. Probably as good a start as any QB. His numbers at this point match up well with big bro. but he got the trophy a lot faster. The media has been Eli bashing since his draft day. They love Romo the cinderella.

luee
09-19-2008, 12:51 PM
an undrafted QB who excelled. Eli was portrayed as a spoiled brat who snubbed the draft. Eli has the size, has the arm, has the background and pedigree to be the one of the greats. Three play-offs, one SB MVP in his first three full years how can that be considered anything but one of the best starts ever? The Giants totally dominate both sides of the LOS, sometimes takes a year or two for this to sink in with the media. Cowboys are probably a close second in the NFC but Romo is no Eli and your coaching is not quite as good.

Damix
09-20-2008, 10:01 AM
Look at post dates my friend.