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NJ_J_Witt_fan
01-11-2008, 11:39 PM
What are the chances that Chris Long can possibly make a transition to a monsterous 3-4 strong side linebacker ala adalious thomas or Greg Ellis instead of a base end in a 4-3 or gaining weight to be a 3-4 end ?

BroadwayJoe10
01-11-2008, 11:50 PM
What are the chances that Chris Long can possibly make a transition to a monsterous 3-4 strong side linebacker ala adalious thomas or Greg Ellis instead of a base end in a 4-3 or gaining weight to be a 3-4 end ?

That's what Al Groh has been pushing and I personally feel that he could make a flawless transition. I think this way not just because of his unbelievable physical tools, but his work ethic that seems to be second to none. I am going to weight to see his 3 cone drill, but it seems as though he has been playing around 265ish and has looked extremely fast when i've watched him play. I havn't ever seen him in coverage so I can't really speak to that, but i can say he plays the run very well, sheds blockers very well and can get after the QB. He has a nonstop motor that will create havoc for the QB even if he's not racking up all the sacks. I am extremely excited to see him at the combine, because if he puts up the numbers I think he's capable of I can see him going #1 overall.

NJ_J_Witt_fan
01-12-2008, 12:29 AM
That's what Al Groh has been pushing and I personally feel that he could make a flawless transition. I think this way not just because of his unbelievable physical tools, but his work ethic that seems to be second to none. I am going to weight to see his 3 cone drill, but it seems as though he has been playing around 265ish and has looked extremely fast when i've watched him play. I havn't ever seen him in coverage so I can't really speak to that, but i can say he plays the run very well, sheds blockers very well and can get after the QB. He has a nonstop motor that will create havoc for the QB even if he's not racking up all the sacks. I am extremely excited to see him at the combine, because if he puts up the numbers I think he's capable of I can see him going #1 overall.

I wouldn't doubt it..... Parcells luvs his pass rushing OLB

If the dolphins take a shot on him and he works out, all the sudden Miami's pass rush looks kinda scary with Jason Taylor and himself rushing off the ends, especially disguised in a 3-4 where u can't always tell who is coming and who is dropping into coverage.

ammandss
01-12-2008, 12:37 PM
I don't think Long will have much of a problem transitioning to a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE. Ironically, he may have the hardest times continuing to play the 3-4 DE. I don't think he can gain much more weight and I think Howie, Chris and Al Groh all expect him to be a 3-4 OLB in the NFL.

Don Killuminati
01-12-2008, 02:20 PM
I think trying to move Long to OLB would be foolish. Kid's a DE, not some tweener. He doesn't have the elite speed that you'd want coming off the edge from a standing position.

For his sake, I hope that doesn't ha[[en to him.

Babylon
01-12-2008, 02:53 PM
I think trying to move Long to OLB would be foolish. Kid's a DE, not some tweener. He doesn't have the elite speed that you'd want coming off the edge from a standing position.

For his sake, I hope that doesn't ha[[en to him.

I agree. Obviously he could transition but i think a better fit for a 4-3 end and sometimes tackle. Not that many teams running 3-4 anyways.

VAfy-ya
01-14-2008, 07:00 AM
I think trying to move Long to OLB would be foolish. Kid's a DE, not some tweener. He doesn't have the elite speed that you'd want coming off the edge from a standing position.

For his sake, I hope that doesn't ha[[en to him.

Being an effective LOLB in a 3-4 has nothing to do with speed. I say left because that is the side your primarily pass-rushing OLB plays in the 3-4. It has more to do with your burst off the line(quickness) and your technique.....less to do with straight line speed. DeMarcus Ware, Shawn Merriman, Adaulis Thomas are what you envision when you put Long at that spot. And all those guys are of similar build and weight. Long fits that mold. None of these guys are running 4.5 40 times, but their initial burst off the line, their strength, and their technique makes them the best of the best when it comes to OLBs in the 3-4. Long has lined up all over the field in UVA's 3-4 defensive packages.....LOLB, LILB, RILB, ROLB, RDE, LDE, even NT, and has rush the passer effectively from all spots. I actually think having him rush the passer standing up would make him that much more effective in the pros. Having watch Long his entire college career, I have no doubt that would be the best way to use him. He could have a Merriman/Ware type of impact his first year. I think he could also play 4-3 DE as well and still do great job. But his athleticism and motor would just wreak havoc as a LOLB in a 3-4.

Iamcanadian
01-14-2008, 07:18 AM
That's what Al Groh has been pushing and I personally feel that he could make a flawless transition. I think this way not just because of his unbelievable physical tools, but his work ethic that seems to be second to none. I am going to weight to see his 3 cone drill, but it seems as though he has been playing around 265ish and has looked extremely fast when i've watched him play. I havn't ever seen him in coverage so I can't really speak to that, but i can say he plays the run very well, sheds blockers very well and can get after the QB. He has a nonstop motor that will create havoc for the QB even if he's not racking up all the sacks. I am extremely excited to see him at the combine, because if he puts up the numbers I think he's capable of I can see him going #1 overall.

He's reported to run in the late 4.7's or early 4.8's, if so I doubt he translates well to OLB in a 3-4. You still have to be able to drop into pass coverage and even cover a RB or TE one on one. If he manages a very low 4.7 or even a high 4.6, then maybe he can make the switch. I think he gets drafted by a 4-3 team to play DE where his pass rush skills can be better utilized.
If Miami doesn't trade the pick, they will indeed be looking for someone to play OLB in the draft but I think they take Gholston over Chris.

Patriots16-0
01-14-2008, 07:59 AM
I think he is most to be a normal DE in a 4-3.

Finsfan79
01-14-2008, 10:58 AM
I dont see a 3-4 DE in him personally at least until I see his weight and all, along with how he is in mobile.

Personally I think he is getting over-rated because of whose son he is.

Grig
01-14-2008, 11:19 AM
While I do agree that the birthright is definitely helping him, I also believe it's a legitimate positive. You'd expect him to have a good attitude/work ethic considering he's Howie's son.

ammandss
01-14-2008, 11:22 AM
I dont see a 3-4 DE in him personally at least until I see his weight and all, along with how he is in mobile.

Personally I think he is getting over-rated because of whose son he is.

I completely disagree with his rep because of his father. I have always been cautious about speaking too highly of Long because I'm a Virginia fan, but watching him play this year is the reason he is hyped not his father. If you watch him in any game this season he always makes impact plays. He constantly garners double and triple teams and he has great technique. I wouldn't consider him a #1 pick in the draft, but he could go there because of need. Bottom line, he is a great talent regardless of his father.

toonsterwu
01-14-2008, 11:29 AM
I don't disagree that Chris Long is a tad overrated, but for the most part, whoever goes early is, to an extent, overrated. I mean, the difference between the number 1 guy and the number 2 guy at QB/RB/OT/DE/3-4OLB/DT/CB isn't by much, and yet, you could still see significant differences in where guys get picked, and to that extent, you have an overrated player.

nhlkdog411
01-14-2008, 12:01 PM
He's reported to run in the late 4.7's or early 4.8's, if so I doubt he translates well to OLB in a 3-4. You still have to be able to drop into pass coverage and even cover a RB or TE one on one. If he manages a very low 4.7 or even a high 4.6, then maybe he can make the switch. I think he gets drafted by a 4-3 team to play DE where his pass rush skills can be better utilized.
If Miami doesn't trade the pick, they will indeed be looking for someone to play OLB in the draft but I think they take Gholston over Chris.

theres plenty of 3-4 olbs that run in the 4.7s....long would also be a mammoth outside and the position is more about quickness and burst, which long has, more than straight speed in the forty..seriously how often does an olb in the 3-4 run more than say 10-15 yards...they NEVER run 40 unless there is a completely broken play or something.

wonderbredd24
01-14-2008, 12:09 PM
Terrell Suggs had a 4.7-4.8 40 time... how'd that work out?

ammandss
01-14-2008, 12:34 PM
Terrell Suggs had a 4.7-4.8 40 time... how'd that work out?

Yeah, I remember he was supposed to run in the mid 4.6s and he ran a 4.8 instead. Also, Darryl Tapp had a poor 40 time too and he's turned out pretty well.

Paranoidmoonduck
01-14-2008, 10:57 PM
He's reported to run in the late 4.7's or early 4.8's, if so I doubt he translates well to OLB in a 3-4. You still have to be able to drop into pass coverage and even cover a RB or TE one on one. If he manages a very low 4.7 or even a high 4.6, then maybe he can make the switch.

I think you may be putting a little too much faith in how 40-times translate to the field.

Long probably isn't the next DeMarcus Ware or anything, but he's a very good pass rusher with very good technique and has shown that he moves relatively well in space. I think the comparison that Al Groh offered was Mike Vrabel, and that seems like a fairly decent one. Long is more suited to play with his hand in the ground, but if a 3-4 defense had any imagination they could have a damn fine linebacker on their hands.

That said, I don't think that Long is enticing enough in the 3-4 to warrant, say, the #1 or #2 overall selection (assuming that Haslett wants to run some 3-4).

thebow305
01-14-2008, 11:23 PM
I think trying to move Long to OLB would be foolish. Kid's a DE, not some tweener. He doesn't have the elite speed that you'd want coming off the edge from a standing position.

For his sake, I hope that doesn't ha[[en to him.

Thank You!

thebow305
01-14-2008, 11:23 PM
I dont see a 3-4 DE in him personally at least until I see his weight and all, along with how he is in mobile.

Personally I think he is getting over-rated because of whose son he is.

Couldn't agree more.

thebow305
01-14-2008, 11:25 PM
What are the chances that Chris Long can possibly make a transition to a monsterous 3-4 strong side linebacker ala adalious thomas or Greg Ellis instead of a base end in a 4-3 or gaining weight to be a 3-4 end ?

He could possibly be a 3-4 OLB, but then why would he go before Gholston, who is stronger and faster. I think his best fit is gaining a few pounds and playing end in a 3-4. And I'm sticking to that.

nhlkdog411
01-14-2008, 11:27 PM
He could possibly be a 3-4 OLB, but then why would he go before Gholston, who is stronger and faster. I think his best fit is gaining a few pounds and playing end in a 3-4. And I'm sticking to that.

i doubt gholston is stronger, he is more ripped but long is bigger and is strong enough that he played 3-4 end all through college and held up extraordinarily well..i don't see gholston being able to do that simply because he isn't as big OR strong as long is.

thebow305
01-14-2008, 11:36 PM
i doubt gholston is stronger, he is more ripped but long is bigger and is strong enough that he played 3-4 end all through college and held up extraordinarily well..i don't see gholston being able to do that simply because he isn't as big OR strong as long is.

Long has more mass than Gholston overall, but I doubt he is stronger. I guess we will see at the combine.

Iamcanadian
01-14-2008, 11:43 PM
theres plenty of 3-4 olbs that run in the 4.7s....long would also be a mammoth outside and the position is more about quickness and burst, which long has, more than straight speed in the forty..seriously how often does an olb in the 3-4 run more than say 10-15 yards...they NEVER run 40 unless there is a completely broken play or something.

Actually a 3-4 OLB can be asked to run 40 yards when he is assigned to cover a RB out of the backfield or a TE. There are situations where they have to play one on one in a 3-4 so his 40 time is serious if he's too slow. Don't get me wrong, nobody know for sure what he will run, I'm just quoting a rumour.

thetedginnshow
01-14-2008, 11:43 PM
I'd just like to see him go to the Jets.

thebow305
01-14-2008, 11:46 PM
Actually a 3-4 OLB can be asked to run 40 yards when he is assigned to cover a RB out of the backfield or a TE. There are situations where they have to play one on one in a 3-4 so his 40 time is serious if he's too slow. Don't get me wrong, nobody know for sure what he will run, I'm just quoting a rumour.

great points

Iamcanadian
01-14-2008, 11:50 PM
I think you may be putting a little too much faith in how 40-times translate to the field.

Long probably isn't the next DeMarcus Ware or anything, but he's a very good pass rusher with very good technique and has shown that he moves relatively well in space. I think the comparison that Al Groh offered was Mike Vrabel, and that seems like a fairly decent one. Long is more suited to play with his hand in the ground, but if a 3-4 defense had any imagination they could have a damn fine linebacker on their hands.

That said, I don't think that Long is enticing enough in the 3-4 to warrant, say, the #1 or #2 overall selection (assuming that Haslett wants to run some 3-4).

It isn't unusual for a college HC to try to boost his players into the top 1 or 2 so I'm not surprised that Groh is doing it. However I completely agree with you that taking him at 1 or 2 and switching him to OLB in a 3-4 seems too big a risk to me. You just never know for sure how a position switch will work out. The scouts and GM's will get to see him workout at LB during the Senior Bowl practices and at the combine. If he excels, they could get excited but until he actually works out for the scouts and GM's, talking about him as a 3-4 OLB is a bit premature.

toonsterwu
01-15-2008, 01:11 AM
I think 2 comments need to be made on this subject:

1. There were plenty of times when Chris Long played out of a 2-point and dropped back into coverage. Yes, for the most part, he was in a 3-point and attacking, but UVA did throw him around to try and catch teams off guard.

2. If Chris Long is asked to move fulltime to OLB, he more than likely will shed 10-15 pounds, which should boost his athleticism. The numbers being rumored are at his current weight. If he sheds weight, it stands to reason said numbers would be better.

Addict
01-15-2008, 04:56 AM
Long is my hero... too bad the Lions didn't show how crappy they are earlier since getting him would be huge... ah well...

nhlkdog411
01-15-2008, 10:59 AM
Actually a 3-4 OLB can be asked to run 40 yards when he is assigned to cover a RB out of the backfield or a TE. There are situations where they have to play one on one in a 3-4 so his 40 time is serious if he's too slow. Don't get me wrong, nobody know for sure what he will run, I'm just quoting a rumour.

1. 3-4 olbs RARELY cover
2. most tightends run in the 4.7-4.8 range anyway
3. how often will the rb or te they are covering be running 40 yards straight downfield? Once or twice a season? They will be covering the short and intermediate areas when they drop into coverage and thus not running straight for 40 yards
4. this is a ridiculous argument considering the pro-bowl caliber 3-4 olbs who have 4.7-4.8 forty speed like mike vrabel, terrell suggs, roosevelt colvin etc.

VAfy-ya
01-15-2008, 04:04 PM
1. 3-4 olbs RARELY cover
2. most tightends run in the 4.7-4.8 range anyway
3. how often will the rb or te they are covering be running 40 yards straight downfield? Once or twice a season? They will be covering the short and intermediate areas when they drop into coverage and thus not running straight for 40 yards
4. this is a ridiculous argument considering the pro-bowl caliber 3-4 olbs who have 4.7-4.8 forty speed like mike vrabel, terrell suggs, roosevelt colvin etc.

Exactly! How may times have you seen Merriman covering a RB down the field? How about Ware? Those guys are primarily pass-rushers. When their on the field, there getting after the QB. And on the rare occasion they do drop back, its usually in a zone-blitz kind of package, in which they are only responsible for a short area of the field anyway.

And for the poster who said Long isn't strong enough, you should really watch the Gator Bowl when UVA played Texas Tech. Against a O-Line that goes 330 lbs across the board and one in which they only allowed 12 sacks the entire year(playing in the Big 12), UVA had 4 sacks, 2 for safeties. Though Long wasn't credited with a sack, he apply crazy pressure all day, from various spots in the 3-4 and freed up others to take the stat. He was driving the OTs back constantly, ripping thru double teams, and when he wasn't applying pressure, he was batting down balls at the LOS. Even with a QB who gets rid of the ball as quickly as Graham Harrell, and a O-Line with splits so wide, so as to make you DE's rush from further away than normal, Long constantly wrecked havoc. That cemented for me that Long was strong enough to take on NFL OTs.....and win.

Babylon
01-15-2008, 06:11 PM
I think 2 comments need to be made on this subject:

1. There were plenty of times when Chris Long played out of a 2-point and dropped back into coverage. Yes, for the most part, he was in a 3-point and attacking, but UVA did throw him around to try and catch teams off guard.

2. If Chris Long is asked to move fulltime to OLB, he more than likely will shed 10-15 pounds, which should boost his athleticism. The numbers being rumored are at his current weight. If he sheds weight, it stands to reason said numbers would be better.

The Cowboys tried to move HOF lineman Randy White to linebacker and that bombed, i would put Long at end or tackle, in a 4-3 preferably, and leave him there.

fakterx
01-16-2008, 11:47 AM
The Cowboys tried to move HOF lineman Randy White to linebacker and that bombed, i would put Long at end or tackle, in a 4-3 preferably, and leave him there.

The cowboys also moved DE Greg Ellis to OLB and that is working out great for them.

ammandss
01-16-2008, 12:05 PM
It doesn't matter how Randy White or Greg Ellis has fared in the past, just look at Long as a prospect. At Virginia he played in coverage and in the rush, obviously a lot, lot more as a pass rusher. He is athletic and smart enough to play multiple positions. I can easily see him going down to 255 if he ends up being a OLB in teh 3-4. He has shown that he can play some coverage in college and in the Gator Bowl he was the rush OLB on a few plays. Also, just because you may like Gholston better than Long, that does not mean that Long does not have the tools to succeed at OLB.