3-4 Defense

[D-Rod]

There hasn't been a thread devoted to the 3-4 for a little while (i looked back quite a way), so as a fan of the Falcons (who are looking seriously at Rex Ryan, apparently) I'd like to get some advice.

How would you rank the top 5 (or 10, if you can be bothered) prospects at each of these positions (for the 3-4), and in what round would you expect them to be drafted: NT, DE, and ILB?

[Jakey]

Sure thing bro...

1st of all its not a good year for 3-4 NT's, and you'd be pushed to find a decent starter this year...

NT:

- Frank Okam (2)
- Red Bryant (3)
- Ahtyba Rubin (5)
- Richard Clebert (UDFA)

DE:

- Chris Long (1)
- Glenn Dorsey (1) ~ Questionable as a 3-4 end.
- Kentwan Balmer (1-2)
- Calais Campbell (1-2)
- Pat Sims (2)
- Philip Merling (2)
- Dre Moore (2)

ILB:

- Dan Connor (1-2)
- Beau Bell (2)
- Erin Henderson (2)
- Ezra Butler (2-3)
- Tavares Gooden (3)
- Phillip Wheeler (3)

some underclassmen to look out for:

NT:

- Terrance Taylor (1)

DE:

- Fili Moala (1)
- Tyson Jackson (1)
- Demonte Bolden (2)

ILB:

- James Laurinaitis (1)
- Rey Maualuga (1)
- Brian Cushing (1-2)
- Tim Jamison (2-3)
- Jasper Brinkley (3) ~ Perfect 'Buck' LILB


I hope that helps man :)

[toonsterwu]

Some rough top 10's (meaning I am doing this on the fly). Comments on how they are ordered are given, as some are different, but this is largely a personal preference list with rough round guesses.

NT is always the hardest one to figure:

I'd go, as of now, with this top 10 consideirng all potential options (ordered by who I think would be best at NT, not overall value)

1. Ahtyba Rubin, Iowa State - 2nd round (top pure NT prospect for the 3-4)
2. Dre Moore, Maryland - 2nd round (could go higher overall than Rubin)
3. Maurice Murray - 5th round (somewhat like Dre Moore in that better off as a 3-4 end, but could be used on the nose probably)
4. Glenn Dorsey, LSU - Top 5 (can he do it ... yes. is that ideal? no.)
5. Red Bryant, Texas A&M - 5th round (see Frank Okam)
6. Frank Okam, Texas - 4th round (with effort, he could be the best ... that's a big if)
7. Sedrick Ellis, USC - top 10 (see Glenn Dorsey ... actually, perhaps should be higher than Okam/Bryant since those two are such huge unknowns)
8. Josh Thompson, Auburn - 6th round (not really a starting caliber type)
9. Frank Morton - 7th - UDFA (think Antwon Burton from a couple years back ... will need time and patience)
10. Corey Clark, Jackson State - UDFA (not real sure if he can succeed in the 3-4 on the nose ... was thinking Clebert here as well, but I just dunno if I like him that much as a 3-4 NT, ideal as a 4-3 NT)

everythng after the top 2, IMO, is up in the air and if I did this a different morning, I might order it differently, and in all honesty, Dre Moore is better off as a 3-4 end, but he could be a Jason Ferguson type NT, IMO. Okam/Bryant could arguably be the best options if they developed all facets of their game and consistency.

3-4 DE - good options for it this year, thus very debatable on ordering, order here is a combination of fit/value

1. Kentwan Balmer, UNC - first round-early 2nd (I want to say Jarvis Green or Ty Warren ... obviously Ty Warren would be better)
2. Dre Moore, Maryland - 2nd round (versatile and can play anywhere, but 3-4 DE might be his best spot within the 3-4)
3. Glenn Dorsey, LSU - top 5 (let's get this out of the way ... he could do it ... and perhaps do it well ... just not sold it's ideal)
4. Chris Long, Virginia - top 5 (undersized, but if there's a guy who can succeed while undersized for the position, it's the technically sound Chris Long - for a 3-4 DE comp, I'd say Phil Hansen)
5. Kendall Langford, Hampton - 4th round (think of the guy Dallas drafted a couple years back, um, Jason Hatcher? in that he has the tools, but will need some development)
6. Maurice Murray, New Mexico State - 5th round (Underrated DL talent who has played in a 30 front and could be a solid, but probably not spectacular, 3-4 end)
7. Marcus Harrison, Arkansas - 4th round (let's see how the character issues play out)
8. Phillip Merling, Clemson - first/2nd round (I wonder if I have him too low)
9. Brian Johnston, Gardner-Webb - 5th/6th round (just a hunch as I haven't given him much thought until now)
10. Calais Campbell, Miami - first/2nd round (could he do it? Probably. Ideal? No)

3-4 OLB (tons of options)

1. Derrick Harvey, Florida - top 15 (think Demarcus Ware)
2. Vernon Gholston, the Ohio State - top 15 (think Shawne Merriman)
3. Ezra Butler, Nevada - 2nd-3rd round (think Adalius Thomas ...).
4. Chris Long, Virginia - top 5 (I'll be curious at what his weight and numbers are)
5. Chris Ellis, Virginia Tech - 2nd round (some character things to check out, although should be fine, could move into the first with strong workouts, but probably better as a 4-3 end)
6. Quentin Groves, Auburn - 2nd round (raw athleticism may be quite tempting)
7. Cliff Avril, Purdue -3rd/4th round (think another former Purdue guy in Rosevelt Colvin, will need time)
8. Shawn Crable, Michigan - 3rd round (raw tools may make him better suited than Lamarr Woodley, who's been solid)
9. Titus Brown, Mississippi State - 4th/5th round (feel like he's getting overlooked a bit)
10. Bruce Davis, UCLA - 4th round (probably more a specialist)

3-4 ILB

1. Ezra Butler, Nevada - 2nd-3rd round (probably not the expected name at the top, but he can succeed here ... see Adalius Thomas as well, who's been used on the inside this year)
2. Curtis Lofton, Oklahoma - 1st/2nd round (something bugging me about him as a 3-4 ILB)
3. Jerod Mayo, Tennessee - 1st/2nd round (what is there to not like ... outside of size)
4. Ben Moffitt, South Florida - 5th round (am i crazy ... i think i'd love him as a 3-4 ILB)
5. Jonathan Goff, Vanderbilt - 5th round (um ... really no comment but felt like putting something here, should be fine as a 3-4 ILB)
6. Steve Allen, West Texas A&M - 7th round (perhaps a bit of a reach, but i like the little i've seen)
7. Beau Bell, UNLV - 2nd round (can he be physical enough)
8. Erin Henderson, Maryland - 2nd round (see Beau Bell)
9. Dan Connor, Penn State - 2nd round (with a stout DL, I think it could work)
10. Jermaine Dias, Virgnia - UDFA (okay, really couldn't come up with a name I liked here ... if healthy, he can ... but there really should be a better name, just got stuck)

[D-Rod]

Cheers, chaps. Much appreciated.

[D-Rod]

I've never seen Ezra Butler play, but his purported measurables are great: 6'2", 248, 4.55. How come he is only Scott's 12th ranked OLB??

[Handel]

Snip

Wow, thanks....

It will bring some discussion amongst Pats fandom. :)

[darnik44two]

I somewhat specialize in identifying 3-4 personel.

Nose Takles

Glenn Dorsey, LSU - top 5 (questionalble as a NT would need to add weight)
Sedrick Ellis, USC - Top 10 (questionalble as a NT would need to add weight)
Pat Sims, Auburn - Late 1st-mid 2nd (Could play DE also)
Dre Moore, Maryland - Mid 2nd round (Could play DE also)
Marcus Harrison, Arkansas - 3rd round
Frank Okam, Texas - 3rd round (not sold on him as a NT)
Red Bryant, Texas A&M - 4th round
Trevor Laws, Notre Dame - 4th-5th round (would need to add weight)

Defensive End

Kentwan Balmer, N. Carolina - Late 1st-early 2nd
DeMario Pressley, N.C. State - 2nd round
Phillip Merling, Clemson - 2nd round (would need to gain 15-20 pounds)
Nick Hayden, Wisconsin - late 3rd-4th round
Lionel Dotson, Arizona - 4th-5th round
Chris Harrington, Texas A&M - 4th-6th round (In time might be the best 3-4 DE of the class)

Outside Linebackers

Vernon Gholston, Ohio State - Top 10
Chris Long, Virginia - Top 5 (some questions)
Shawn Crable, Michigan - late 1st-mid 2nd
Quentin Groves, Auburn - 2nd round
Derrick Harvey, Florida - 2nd round (not sold on him here)
Chris Ellis, Virginia Tech - Late 1st-mid 2nd round
Phillip Merling, Clemson - 2nd round (he's a true "tweener")
Bruce Davis, UCLA - Late 2nd-early 3rd
Cliff Avril, Purdue - 3rd round
Titus Brown, Miss. St. - 4th round
Marcus Howard, Georgia - 4th round (Comparable to LaMarr Woodley)
Jason Jones, E. Michigan - 5th round
Louis Holmes, Arizona - 5th-6th round

Inside Linebackers

Keith Rivers, USC - Top 15 (would need to bulk up a bit)
Dan Connor, Penn State - 1st round (probably the most ready)
Curtis Lofton, Oklahoma - Late 1st-mid 2nd
Jonathan Goff, Vanderbilt - 2nd round (reminds me of LeVon Kirkland)
Jerod Mayo, Tennessee - 2nd round
Beau Bell, UNLV - 2nd-3rd round
Tavares Gooden, Miami - 2nd-3rd round
Ezra Butler, Nevada - 2nd-3rd round
Spencer Larsen, Arizona - 3rd-4th round

[Solomon]

I've never seen Ezra Butler play, but his purported measurables are great: 6'2", 248, 4.55. How come he is only Scott's 12th ranked OLB??

It's not like he's one of those guys with great measurables who doesn't play up to them. Butler is the real deal. He's been very productive over the past 3 seasons, tackles well, rushes the passer very well and this year improved in coverage drastically. I think that when all is said and done he will wind up in the second round. The best pro comparison I can think of is Mike Vrabel, if he can have anywhere near the impact Vrabel has had he will be a steal for somebody.

[Sniper]

1. Derrick Harvey, Florida - top 15 (think Demarcus Ware)


You think so? He only had 6.5 sacks this year and I think 3.5 of them came against a 1-AA team, and none came in the second half of the season.

[darnik44two]

You think so? He only had 6.5 sacks this year and I think 3.5 of them came against a 1-AA team, and none came in the second half of the season.

I soured on him as a edge rusher when I saw him dominated by Jake Long. Sure Jake Long does that to everybody, but that's the caliber OT's he'll see in the NFL.

[Sniper]

I soured on him as a edge rusher when I saw him dominated by Jake Long. Sure Jake Long does that to everybody, but that's the caliber OT's he'll see in the NFL.

Jake Long eats people...except Vernon Gholston.

But there's no way Harvey should be the #1 OLB, especially ahead of Gholston.

[DiG]

i could definitely see harvey being top 15 talent at the OLB spot in a 3-4. i dont see him being ranked ahead of gholston in that position but his physical tangibles, pass rushing ability, size and speed seem to me to be an even better fit at OLB in a 3-4 than DE in a 4-3. I think you could see him running in the 4.66-4.69 range at the combine which will do nice for his stock as a 3-4 OLB.

He is better situated in my opinion standing up than with his hand down where he is vulnerable against top OTs. As a 4-3 DE I see him picked more in the 18-25 range but as a 3-4 OLBer he is easily top 15 talent.

[megansett56BC]

you really think rivers would be ok there if he bulked up? i know he'd be weakside, but you really think even with bulk he'd hold up well at the point of attack?

[darnik44two]

you really think rivers would be ok there if he bulked up? i know he'd be weakside, but you really think even with bulk he'd hold up well at the point of attack?

It's always a shot in the dark when you move someone out of their natural position, but I do think he could play there. He seems plenty strong enough and is definetly athletic enough.

[Don Killuminati]

So if Atlanta flips to a 34, I guess that means Rod Coleman is out the door.

Interesting.

[toonsterwu]

You think so? He only had 6.5 sacks this year and I think 3.5 of them came against a 1-AA team, and none came in the second half of the season.

It took me a long time to finally slide Harvey back up ... but at the end of the day,

a) I think the lack of numbers was overblown. He had a solid year for the most part.

b) If you ask the question who is the best pure pass rusher in this draft, Harvey would probably top the list.

c) If you ask what is Harvey's biggest problem, it's the questions in the run game. Moving him to a 3-4 OLB role would help minimize some of those concerns.

d) Between Gholston and Harvey, who's the more fluid player? That's probably Harvey.

At the end of the day, as I noted in another thread, I think who goes higher will come down to preference.

[thebow305]

I've never seen Ezra Butler play, but his purported measurables are great: 6'2", 248, 4.55. How come he is only Scott's 12th ranked OLB??

He plays in the WAC where there is not a lot of top competition, which is really one of the only knocks I can see on him.

[toonsterwu]

So if Atlanta flips to a 34, I guess that means Rod Coleman is out the door.

Interesting.

In all likelihood, yes. But to prevent having to massively overhaul things, I think they would probably hold onto him for a year and use him somewhat in the way San Diego uses Luis Castillo. Just a guess.

[gangGREENinsider]

It took me a long time to finally slide Harvey back up ... but at the end of the day,

a) I think the lack of numbers was overblown. He had a solid year for the most part.

b) If you ask the question who is the best pure pass rusher in this draft, Harvey would probably top the list.

c) If you ask what is Harvey's biggest problem, it's the questions in the run game. Moving him to a 3-4 OLB role would help minimize some of those concerns.

d) Between Gholston and Harvey, who's the more fluid player? That's probably Harvey.

At the end of the day, as I noted in another thread, I think who goes higher will come down to preference.

Glad you came around but I still think your questions as to Harvey vs. the run are overblown. If he was that one-dimensional, he wouldn't have gotten a 1st round projection from what seems like an extremmely conservative advisory committee.His stack and shed of Eric Young on a 3rd and 1 and then making a stuff stands out as well as him slipping by Oher numerous times to make stops in the Ole Miss game. Harvey's my #1 JR. end and I am a Jets fan, but I have to question Harvey's ability to transition. One of his biggest strengths is how low and hard he fires out out of his stance that standing him up and teaching him the different techniques may hurt him. He also has absolutely no experience dropping into coverage at UF to make one believe it'd be a smooth transition. LB Drills at the Combine will tell the tale...

[gangGREENinsider]

He plays in the WAC where there is not a lot of top competition, which is really one of the only knocks I can see on him.

And despite his weight, he's not a guy who takes on and gets off blocks. I've also seen him take quite a bit of time diagnosing plays..

[toonsterwu]

Glad you came around but I still think your questions as to Harvey vs. the run are overblown. If he was that one-dimensional, he wouldn't have gotten a 1st round projection from what seems like an extremmely conservative advisory committee.His stack and shed of Eric Young on a 3rd and 1 and then making a stuff stands out as well as him slipping by Oher numerous times to make stops in the Ole Miss game. Harvey's my #1 JR. end and I am a Jets fan, but I have to question Harvey's ability to transition. One of his biggest strengths is how low and hard he fires out out of his stance that standing him up and teaching him the different techniques may hurt him. He also has absolutely no experience dropping into coverage at UF to make one believe it'd be a smooth transition. LB Drills at the Combine will tell the tale...

By no means am I suggesting he's a liability in the run game. He's a liability to the extent that Gaines Adams was considered a liability, and Adams was still a top 5 pick. Both players are fairly comparable.

As for how he transitions, that certainly is a debatable issue. If he tests well athletically, which I think most expect, I don't think the lack of experience dropping back will cause big issues as most teams running the 3-4 understand that most edge prospects need to be developed.

[kennyb]

Would J. Leman make a good 3-4 ILB?

I think he has the size, although accounts vary. He's more size and stacking up blockers than pure athleticism.

[gangGREENinsider]

By no means am I suggesting he's a liability in the run game. He's a liability to the extent that Gaines Adams was considered a liability, and Adams was still a top 5 pick. Both players are fairly comparable.

As for how he transitions, that certainly is a debatable issue. If he tests well athletically, which I think most expect, I don't think the lack of experience dropping back will cause big issues as most teams running the 3-4 understand that most edge prospects need to be developed.

That's what I'm saying- it'll come down to the Combine. His drills and how he look in the LB drills. Because right now with his long build and skillset, I'd say he's more of a 4-3 end.

And Harvey's better vs. the run than Adams- never was a real fan as a prospect. Stronger at the point, better pad level, and better hands.

[genom]

And despite his weight, he's not a guy who takes on and gets off blocks. I've also seen him take quite a bit of time diagnosing plays..

I disagree. Perhaps you've seen more of him? From what i've seen he showed no problems shedding blocks. Can't be worse than what we've seen from Victor Hobson play in and play out. The competition faced in my opinion is a legitimate concern though.

[gangGREENinsider]

Who isn't better than Vic? Admittedly, I haven't seen enough to have a strong opinion either way.

[toonsterwu]

Btw, I think Ezra does well enough shedding blocks that he could be considered an ILB prospect. I mean, he wasn't consistently asked to do it so it is somewhat of a question. But I like what I've seen.

As for Harvey/Adams - I think Adams was a more well-rounded guy coming out. It's easy to forget the complex responsibilities and shifting around that they did with him while he was at Clemson.

[VAfy-ya]

This is my very, VERY early list for 3-4 defensive prospects.



OLB

1. Chris Long, UVA
2. Vernon Gholston, Ohio St.
3. Derrick Harvey, Florida
4. Shawn Crable, Mich
5. Quentin Groves, Auburn
6. Chris Ellis, VT
7. Jeremey Thompson, WF
8. Cliff Avril, Purdue
9. Tommy Blake, TCU
10. Jason Jones, East. Mich
11. Angelo Craig, Cinn
12. Marcus Howard, Geo.
13. Jonal Saint-Dic, Mich St.
14. Bruce Davis, UCLA
15. Titus Brown, Miss St.
16. Darrell Robertson, GT
17. Brandon Miller, Geo.

ILB

1. Ezra Butler, Nevada
2. Beau Bell, UNLV
3. Jonthan Goff, Vandy
4. Tavares Gooden, Miami
5. Curtis Gatewood, Vandy
6. Spencer Larson, Arizona
7. Erin Henderson, UMD
8. Stanford Keglar, Purdue
9. Red Keith, C. Mich
10. Rodrick Johnson, Okl St.
11. Steve Octavien, Neb
12. Alan Darlin, Ore St.
13. Jermaine Dias, UVA

NT

1. Ahtyba Rubin, Iowa
2. Glenn Dorsey, LSU
3. Frank Morton, Tulane
4. Pat Sims, Aubrun
5. Frank Okam, Texas
6. Red Bryant, TexA&M
7. Jason Shirley, Fresno St.
8. Henry Smith, TexA&M

DE

1. Glenn Dorsey, LSU
2. Dre Moore, UMD
3. Marcus Harrison, Ark
4. Kentwan Balmer, UNC
5. Trevor Laws, ND
6. Keilen Dykes, WVU
7. Marcus Dixon, Hampton
8. Carlton Powell, VT
9. Brian Johnston, Gardner-Webb
10. Nick Hayden, Wis
11. Kendall Langford, Hampton
12. Maurice Murray, New Mex St.
13. Chris Norwell, Illinois
14. Brigham Harwell, UCLA
13. Derek Lokey, Texas
15. Allen Billyk, UVA

[goodlookin]

I think J Leman is the best 3-4 ILB prospect in this draft hands hands down. After watching him against USC he just doesnt have the speed to be a 4-3 MLB to provide outside run support. As an ILB he will benefit from his size to shed blocks and be a much better fit, look for the pats to take him in round 2.

[VAfy-ya]

I think J Leman is the best 3-4 ILB prospect in this draft hands hands down. After watching him against USC he just doesnt have the speed to be a 4-3 MLB to provide outside run support. As an ILB he will benefit from his size to shed blocks and be a much better fit, look for the pats to take him in round 2.

His size? I thought Leman was around 225-230 lbs? Far too light for a 3-4 ILB.....

[icantackleclaret]

What do you guys think of Lawrence Jackson as a DE in a 3-4? I think if he could add about 15lbs he would fit really well.

[toonsterwu]

Oh oops, misread that. I thought it was asking Jackson as a 3-4 OLB. As a 3-4 DE? Eh, don't see it. Lacks the frame to really add the weight necessary, I think.

[darnik44two]

There are alot of misconceptions about what's desired in 3-4 personel. Here's what the profile on a 3-4 DE is...

3-4 DEs tend to weigh around 290-310, and many are former 4-3 DT/DE "tweeners". They must be able to play the run well. The 3-4 DE is responsible for the B and C gaps in the running game and lines up in the 5-technique position, so he is head-up on the OT. It's tough for a 3-4 DE to pick up as many sacks as a 4-3 DE, because a 3-4 DE doesn't have the freedom to go willy nilly upfield. He has to protect the LBs in order for the 3-4 to work. Panthers' 4-3 DE Julius Peppers said that he didn't like playing 3-4 DE, because he felt like he was essentially a DT. Unlike Peppers (6-6 290), most 4-3 DEs are not suited to playing 3-4 DE, because they lack the size and ability to hold up against the run. Examples of solid 3-4 DEs are the Patriots' Richard Seymour (6-6 310), the Steelers' Aaron Smith (6-5 300), and the Raiders' Bobby Hamilton (6-5 285)

[junior2430]

The only game I saw Nevada play was the New Mexico Bowl, and Mauga impressed me much more. He was a beast in that game.

[NikeFootball05]

I'm really interested in Cliff Avril. I never found out his 2007 stats but he had pretty productive numbers going into the season. And I'd be willing to take a chance on him if he tests well considering the school's success with NFL 3-4 outside linebackers (Colvin, Phillips, Spencer)...Anyone have more information on him.

[toonsterwu]

Avril's line was pretty solid.
G Solo Asst Total TFL-Yards Sacks-yards Int-Yard BU PD fumbles-yards ff
13 33 8 41 15.0 - 56 6.5 - 40 1 - 43 5 6 3 - 0 4

[bored of education]

What about 3-4 OLBs that could play across the board? usually that is inherent and exposed overtime in a 3-4 D. Someone who can play ILB and OLB. Those are the rare ones. A la Mike vrablesque

[VAfy-ya]

What do you guys think of Lawrence Jackson as a DE in a 3-4? I think if he could add about 15lbs he would fit really well.

I think its really asking too much for kids to adjust to NFL caliber play, while also changing their body as well. It rarely works out where a kid has to gain mass and still be effective. Now if he gains mass over time, that's understandable. But I wouldn't bank on making a player gaining nearly 20 pounds and expecting the guy to play the same as he did when he was projected as a sure thing.

Having said all that, I think Jackson is a penetrating 4-3 DE. He really isn't the best fit for a 3-4 DE. 3-4 DEs at the least, must be able to have a strong base and be powerful enough to take on double teams all game long. It's a bonus if he's able to shed blocks well and have the type of motor to make plays behind the LOS. The guy I really like as a 3-4 end is Trevor Laws. Powerful, plays with good leverage, and has a great motor. He's a little short for 3-4 DE(6'1) but I think he could be a very good one.

[Handel]

Who are the good typical 4-3 OLB who could play inside in the 3-4...I remember Bill Belichick having said that, for their system, most of the college DE are drafted to be 3-4 OLB and that most of the college OLB are drafted to be 3-4 ILB.

Found it...probably not really surprising...

Well, again, for us, most of the guys who have played linebacker in college, to play linebacker, are really going to have to play inside. And most guys that play outside, most of them in our system, are guys that have played down or played defensive end. I think if you look at a team like Dallas, San Diego, with [Shawne] Merriman last year or [DeMarcus] Ware last year, guys like that, Pittsburgh, teams that are 3-4 teams that most of the outside linebackers that they've drafted have been college ends, primarily rush guys.

[Iamcanadian]

There are alot of misconceptions about what's desired in 3-4 personel. Here's what the profile on a 3-4 DE is...

Good job. A lot of the guys people are projecting, could never play in a 3-4 defense. 3-4 OLB's often line up as DE's in a 3-4 making it doubtful that players like Cable of Michigan could play the position. 3-4 DE's basically take on blockers to free up the LB's to make the tackle. Pass rushing is a secondary skill. There are 2 types of OLB's that play in a 3-4, one is a converted college DE who has the speed to rush the passer, the second OLB is also a converted college DE but is a far better run defender than a pass rusher. The ILB's in a 3-4 can be slow but must be sure tacklers, tough guys who won't back away from a blocker. Since there are 2 ILB's in a 3-4, they only cover half the space of a MLB in a 4-3 hence speed isn't the highest priority. Almost any DT who can play in a 4-3 can be switched to become a 3-4 DE. They may not like the idea but they can play the position. There are only a few 4-3 DE's who are big enough to play in a 3-4.
The CB's need to be shutdown types but larger in size since they play a lot of one on one but are required to support the run.

So when one asks who can play in a 3-4, you have to keep in mind what each position's responsibility are. Take Chris Long and Dorsey for instance. A lot of people and guru's have Miami taking one of these guys with the 1st overall pick but I don't believe they will unless they feel that Chris Long can make the switch to OLB in the 3-4, why, because if both of these guys are going to be 3-4 DE's whose main responsibility is to take on blockers so the LB's can make the tackle, they are hardly going to be worth drafting #1 overall. They hardly ever get a sack.
Who in their right mind would draft a 3-4 DE with the 1st overall pick and pay him 60+ million dollars to take on blockers? The stars of a 3-4 defense are the converted college DE's who as OLB's can rush the passer and get a lot of sacks, the CB's who have to play a lot on man on man and the NT who has to be able to stand up to a double team on running plays.
IMO Dorsey and Chris Long won't be the #1 overall pick by Miami, it will be someone who plays a star position on a 3-4's defense or even an offensive priority player. Even if perhaps Long can make the switch to OLB, it is far too risky to draft a player #1 overall who has to switch positions in the NFL in order to play for a 3-4 team.

[GET LOOSE]

if the jets dont draft Rubin i will be so mad...he is the best 3-4 NT in the draft...i really like him as a 3rd or 4th round pick

[gangGREENinsider]

if the jets dont draft Rubin i will be so mad...he is the best 3-4 NT in the draft...i really like him as a 3rd or 4th round pick

Agreed, but me thinks he goes higher than that. 3rd at the very latest...

[VAfy-ya]

if the jets dont draft Rubin i will be so mad...he is the best 3-4 NT in the draft...i really like him as a 3rd or 4th round pick

With him being the only legit 3-4 NT in this year's draft, and that one position being so hard to fill in the 3-4, don't be surprised to see my Niners take a flyer on him in the 2nd.....

[bored of education]

Who are the good typical 4-3 OLB who could play inside in the 3-4...I remember Bill Belichick having said that, for their system, most of the college DE are drafted to be 3-4 OLB and that most of the college OLB are drafted to be 3-4 ILB.

Found it...probably not really surprising...



i think i sorta asked the same thing? haha. i dont see any of those type jut yet inthis draft. you need to have very high football intelligence and a relentless motor among other things. i dont seee anyone this draft having that

[BroadwayJoe10]

How does everyone rank harvey compared to gholston in terms of OLB. I understand it seems gholston is a better all around player (against the run especially) and harvey could be a better pure pass rusher, but what about them is the biggest difference maker that really seperates them as a top 5 pick or a top 15 pick?

[Sniper]

How does everyone rank harvey compared to gholston in terms of OLB. I understand it seems gholston is a better all around player (against the run especially) and harvey could be a better pure pass rusher, but what about them is the biggest difference maker that really seperates them as a top 5 pick or a top 15 pick?

How would you state that Harvey is a better pass rusher when Harvey had 6.5 sacks all year with 3.5 coming against a 1-AA team and no sacks in the second half of the year?

[BroadwayJoe10]

Gholston had a better year yes, but i still feel harvey is a better natural pass rusher. I think he's a better athlete than gholston and fires off the snap quicker. He's not as good of a run stopper and is still "raw" in terms of his potential, but i think he's a better pure pass rusher, but that's why i was asking everyones opinion on what seperates them.

That having been said, I still would take gholston over harvey at #6, but i just wanted to know what in everyones mind seperates them

[gangGREENinsider]

I think Harvey's better vs. the run too...so naturally I think his all-around play on the field separates them.

[Mr Spoons]

Good job. A lot of the guys people are projecting, could never play in a 3-4 defense. 3-4 OLB's often line up as DE's in a 3-4 making it doubtful that players like Cable of Michigan could play the position. 3-4 DE's basically take on blockers to free up the LB's to make the tackle. Pass rushing is a secondary skill. There are 2 types of OLB's that play in a 3-4, one is a converted college DE who has the speed to rush the passer, the second OLB is also a converted college DE but is a far better run defender than a pass rusher. The ILB's in a 3-4 can be slow but must be sure tacklers, tough guys who won't back away from a blocker. Since there are 2 ILB's in a 3-4, they only cover half the space of a MLB in a 4-3 hence speed isn't the highest priority. Almost any DT who can play in a 4-3 can be switched to become a 3-4 DE. They may not like the idea but they can play the position. There are only a few 4-3 DE's who are big enough to play in a 3-4.
The CB's need to be shutdown types but larger in size since they play a lot of one on one but are required to support the run.



Huh? When does a 3-4 OLB line up at 3-4 DE? Did you mean 4-3 DE? If you did, they only do it on passing downs, so as long as they have the moves and speed, they'll be OK. I thought one of Crable's selling points was that he already plays some 3-4 OLB at Michigan?

Re the CBs, what do you call bigger? Asante Samuel, Terence Newman, Eric Wright and DeShea Townsend are all 5'10 or so and 185-190lbs and aren't exactly trash.

[Don Killuminati]

His size? I thought Leman was around 225-230 lbs? Far too light for a 3-4 ILB.....
Since when is 230 pounds too light to be a 34 ILB? Hell, Donnie Edwards was in the 220-225 range when he was with the Bolts and was one of the best ILBs you'd ever want to see.

[bored of education]

Since when is 230 pounds too light to be a 34 ILB? Hell, Donnie Edwards was in the 220-225 range when he was with the Bolts and was one of the best ILBs you'd ever want to see.


He has super human strength and high football intellect

[BroadwayJoe10]

I havn't seen much of marcus harrison and was wondering if his frame looks like he has the ability to put on some weight? From what i've heard is good at occupying double teams and holding the POA. Does he play with good leverage and the other tools needed to be a NT etc.

[DeathbyStat]

What about Kendall Langford?

[D-Rod]

What about Kendall Langford?

Apparently he's dropped to 275, which rather undermines his suitability to 3-4 DE.