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View Full Version : bleh - 3 rounds


toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 12:45 PM
I have two mocks that I’m working on, didn’t know which one I liked better. Also have some duo mocks that were started earlier. Went with this one, but I imagine I’ll hear things about this mock. Eh, I’ll have to go over it again. Bleh, some folks now how annoyed I’ve been with trying to get this done. Not too pleased with it, but better than I felt a couple days back. As always, the later it gets, the less I think on deals.

Trades

First Round

Dallas gets the 6th overall
New York Jets get the 22nd, 62nd (61st), and 93rd (92nd) along with Bobby Carpenter

- Had a variant involving both firsts, but went with this. Carpenter should get
good reviews from Parcells.

Minnesota gets the 7th overall
New England gets the 17th overall, 83rd overall (82nd), and a 2nd rounder in 2009

- If they can make said deal without giving up their 2nd … it’s got to tempt. NE is
a team that might be amenable to futures.

Pittsburgh gets the 18th overall
Houston gets the 23rd and 89th (88th) overall

- I think Houston will be open to any deal to get more assets.

Baltimore gets the 27th overall
San Diego gets the 39th overall (38th), Ravens 4th rounder in 08, and 3rd rounder in 09.

- San Diego could use the assets after dealing away their 2nd (Chambers), 3rd (Weddle) , and 4th rounder (Oliver)

Atlanta gets the 28th overall
Dallas gets the 49th (48th) overall (from Houston), the Falcons 4th rounder, and a 2009 3rd rounder

- I think Dallas’ willingness to accept an 09 pick could help facilitate things.

Second Round

New Orleans Saints get the 38th (37th) overall
Oakland Raiders get the 41st (40th) overall and the Saints 5th rounder

- additional assets could tempt the Raiders, who lack a third

Seattle gets the 54th (53rd) overall
Pittsburgh gets the 56th (55th) overall and a 5th rounder

- could look for an additional asset, but 2 spots isn’t going to kill them

St. Louis gets the 60th overall (59th)
Indianapolis gets the 66th overall (65th) and the Rams 5th and 6th rounder

- rams have 2 6th rounders

Third Round

New England gets the 67th (66th) overall
Atlanta gets the 69th (68th) overall and a 6th rounder

Denver gets the 96th overall
New England gets the latter of their 4th rounders (Washington’s) and a 2009 4th rounder

1st Round

1. Miami Dolphins - OLB/DE Chris Long, Virginia

Versatility is always something a Parcells influenced regime likes. Still don’t buy either DT as a 3-4 worthy first overall pick. Trading down would be the preference, but who? More rush backer if drafted, Chris could spot at numerous places.

2. St. Louis Rams – OT Jake Long, Michigan

OT or RB (need issue) or DE (value issue) here? Ugh. A lot of people pushing Dorsey or Ellis here, which is a tempting thought, but does that really improve their pass rush by sliding Carriker out to end? Jake can start at guard, giving them a more physical look, and move to tackle in a year or two (whenever Pace calls it quits or Barron’s contract situation).

3. Oakland Raiders – DT Sedrick Ellis, USC

Will Kiffin have any say? If so, I think they shore up that defense. The potential Davis overrule may exist … but since the last time they took a RB in the first, they’ve taken 2 defensive linemen, so it’s possible that Davis buys into this. I think Dorsey is the better player, but the ties with Ellis may bind. Ellis is more Tank Johnson than he is Tommie Harris, but should still be an impact player.

4. Kansas City Chiefs – DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU

I think they are going to face a small dilemma. They need a LT badly. The way things are shaking out, the LT options in round 2 might be iffy projections or iffy fits. Can they afford that route? At the end of the day, for now, I think yes. Dorsey is too good to pass up here, moving McBride to a swing role.

5. Atlanta Falcons – QB Matt Ryan, Boston College

It was time for them to go 5th (put them higher in previous mocks). I wish the coin flip happened earlier. I’m waiting to see who the HC is. That said, the options here seem to be Ryan or McFadden, and it’s tough for me to buy McFadden over a much needed QB with value. Ryan is fine value here for now.

6. Dallas Cowboys f/ New York Jets – RB Darren McFadden, Arkansas

Jets could certainly decide that the value was too good to not exercise the pick. In some respects, that was part of the feeling they had on Ferguson, even though Mangini came from a structure that didn’t draft OL that high. So they’ve shown some willingness to go on value. That said, if a trade materializes, I have to wonder if it’s too hard to pass. There’s more than enough needs that need filling. For the Cowboys, this feels like a Jones type move. If they can keep one of their firsts, I think they’d be tempted.

7. Minnesota f/ San Francisco via New England – S Kenny Phillips, Miami
(Fl.)

I think most think that the Patriots want to deal out. Do they? We don’t really know. If they stayed put, it’d be one of the edge guys in all likelihood, although I wouldn’t rule out a Kentwan Balmer here. They’ve never been wary of drafting for the future Seymour’s only got 2 years remaining on his deal, and in all honesty, he isn’t the player that he was. Jarvis Green also only has 2 years remaining. That said, with Clady, DL talent, and other pieces available here, I think they get a trade option. I have to wonder if Minnesota would be tempted. This is a team that must think they are “close”. Their top needs look to be WR/DE/S/TE. WR doesn’t seem like a first round nod for them. What about the rest? At 17, the ideal DE’s for their defense may be off, and the only safety value is likely off. A pass catching TE at 17 isn’t all that necessary. I just wonder if they get antsy to slide on up. Who? I’m thinking defensive end or S here. Let’s forget the whole “who’s going to take Phillips aspect”, as the chances exist that someone might have the same thought running in their minds on safety value (and New Orleans is an outside shot to go safety). They have a good pass rush, but it’s debatable if they have an elite pass rusher in the bunch. At the end of the day, though, while they lack an elite pass rusher, they had a good pass rush and Phillips is the only safety value of note.

8. Baltimore – OT Ryan Clady, Boise State

I think OL is the big question for the Ravens. If Ogden retires, which looks likely, do they really trust Adam Terry/Jared Gaither? For that matter, while Marshal Yanda wasn’t bad, he isn’t really an ideal right tackle (he’s more a depth tackle, IMO, although he could perhaps be a starter at guard). All that said, their pass rush wasn’t exactly superb, with only 26 sacks from the front 7. CB is definitely a need. QB value is off. At the end of the day, the nod goes Clady. I just don’t buy them necessarily going into the year with that tackle trio as their main options, and I find it unlikely they go after a big ticket tackle.

9. Cincinnati`- DE Vernon Gholston, the Ohio State

Where on defense? 3 options. Worst pass rush last year and only 13 of 22 sacks from the DL. Harvey’s tempting, but the OSU affiliation may play the deciding factor for the two edge guys.

10. New Orleans – DT Kentwan Balmer, North Carolina

LB and CB need to be addressed, but CB options are raw to some extent, and is LB really a position they look this high? Middle of the pack pass rush, and only 20 of 32 sacks from the DL, with 7 from Will Smith. Even if Grant bounces back, an interior pass rush would be nice. LB/CB depth in this draft make value selections in the 2nd/3rd more worthwhile.

11. Buffalo – LB Keith Rivers, USC

Contemplated a trade here, but with Rivers coming in at a solid weight, and with the additional third they have from Baltimore anyways, I think they pull the trigger on their weakside backer.

12. Denver – OT Chris Williams, Vanderbilt

Phillips and Rivers being off bites as the value at those positions is likely off here. There is a LB I have in mind, but it seems unlikely here. What else? DT value is off as well. The options really thin out, so I reluctantly pull the trigger on OL. A trade might be nice, but that would beg the question, who?

13. Carolina – OT Jeff Otah, Pittsburgh

In previous iterations of this mock, I had them dealing up for a tackle. Maybe I should’ve stuck with that. Now, they are looking at Jeff Otah, and their need is at LT. Does it fit? They really don’t have as many glaring needs as people seem to say in that, safety is a position they likely wait on, as is LB, and DT value is off. What other options? DE is a thought. A WR has to be a sleeper idea. So, I’m looking at Otah, Harvey, or Jackson, all the values being fine here. In the end, OL is still the biggest concern, so nod goes with Otah.

14. Chicago – RB Jonathan Stewart, Oregon

I want a trade, but who? I mean, there’s an inviting target in Derrick Harvey, someone the Lions may look at. There are other possibilities here, such as a team bolting up for a RB, something the Lions and Cards both may study. I just can’t find a team that I really buy making this move. For the Bears, offseason moves will determine a lot. Unfortunately, I’ve taken OL value off here. What else? RB is a thought, as is QB. Safety value is gone, as is DT value in all likelihood. LB is unlikely, as is CB. TE is a no. Not many options here. RB or QB? Nod goes RB, although not the RB I want. As teams sign free agents, the dynamics on needs will change. I could see Angelo’s preference being to move down and selecting, say, Gosder Cherilus.

15. Detroit – DE Derrick Harvey, Florida

Well, the OL value is likely off here. RB is a thought. Defensive end is also a thought. Is there a LB? CB value is fine here, but is it necessary and is the fit good? A dominant pass rusher seems the best nod here, and Derrick Harvey compares well with Gaines Adams last year, someone they were rumored to be intrigued with.

16. Arizona – CB Mike Jenkins, South Florida

I reluctantly took the bruising RB that might tempt Whisenhunt off the board. Would Mendenhall tempt? It’s a thought. But between Rashard/Felix and the CB’s, I lean CB. Jenkins or McKelvin? Closer to a toss-up than one might think.

17. New England f/ Minnesota – WR Desean Jackson, California

New England dealt down earlier. What now? Is there a trade? I think they’d be willing to look again, but as was the problem for a couple teams higher, I have a hard time finding someone (and I can usually come up with something, as some of my past mocks would show). What now? Edge options are off the board, unless they like someone from the next tier. As noted, if they like a DL guy, I wouldn’t be surprised. CB? Is it necessary? OL seems unlikely. A RB surprise? Nod goes WR. Desean may go higher, but it’s hard to fit him in. Stallworth is likely gone, Gaffney is a FA last I checked, and Brown/Washington are filler. Chad hasn’t developed. Value works here.

18. Pittsburgh f/ Houston –OT Gosder Cherilus, Boston College

Initially, I made a pick here. After further consideration, with 4 offensive linemen off, I wonder if Pittsburgh gets antsy and pulls the trigger. Sure, they could use the picks, but they could really use an offensive lineman next year. Houston, I think, would listen to a deal to add assets. Is this high for Cherilus? Probably. Is it possible a team takes him before 23? Yes. I don’t think they can sit pat. I doubt a team bolts up higher to nab Cherilus, but I could see it here value wise (that is, it’s a stretch, but the OT’s falling off early forces someone’s hand).

19. Philadelphia – DE Phillip Merling, Clemson

I thought superbly long and hard on defensive backs. McKelvin seems like such a tempting fit. At the end of the day, I went with DL. Howard/Kearse, if they aren’t gone, aren’t going to be depended upon. Can they really count on Thomas/Cole/Abiamiri? The former two are fine, but not guys you want to stick out there way too much. Toss up on value here, and I lean Merling.

20. Tampa Bay – DT Pat Sims, Auburn

I think Tampa Bay would like Jackson, but the Patriots move could surprise them. What now? Certainly a lot of WR possibilities. Gruden/Allen have some safety now, so looking QB wouldn’t be surprising. I don’t think OL is really a big need, as Penn played well. RB can likely wait as they are looking more for a complement to Earnest. CB seems like something to wait on. DL, though, is something to watch, both at DE and at DT. So … what is it? I wonder if Chucky thinks he might be able to motivate Pat Sims.

21. Washington – CB Leodis McKelvin, Troy

I contemplated a couple deal variations, but then I realized that McKelvin had slipped and the value was too good. The position is also an area of concern, with Rogers coming off injury, Macklin and Smooth not exactly top tier guys, and Springs aging. That said, the Redskins contract issues with veterans (Daniels/Griffin/Springs and perhaps Jansen) may determine their course of action.

22. New York Jets f/ Cleveland via Dallas – CB Aqib Talib, Kansas

In the initial deal down, they might’ve thought some DL value would be here. Barring a man love for, say, Dre’ Moore, it’s actually off in regards to guys that could fit outside of the iffy fit of Calais Campbell. Let’s look at what else first. I threw Carpenter into the package, but that said, they could still use a LB, inside or out (if Carpenter is inside). A CB could be a look. Offensive line is a need, but value seems superbly iffy. WR/TE/RB are possibilities. Another trade is possible, but I think they make a nod here. Value wise, I’m looking WR/RB/CB. I’ve got it down to CB or RB, and I’m going CB here. I think Talib could fit them, although it’s not an ideal pick.

23. Houston f/ Pittsburgh – S Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Tennessee St.

They moved down. A quick scan of the board shows it didn’t really hurt them that much. DL seems really unlikely. Is LB needed? OL seems likely to be off the board with Gibbs. Thus, LB/RB/DB. The move down helps, as it gives them an asset later and puts them into better range on a DB pick. The nod here goes to DB, as I think they would prefer to wait on RB. So, who? Nod goes to Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie as a safety. A little thin, but the playmaking instincts may tempt them. Reggie Smith was plan B.

24. Tennessee – WR Malcolm Kelly, Oklahoma

DT value is cleaned off, but DE value exists, so we’ll see how their DE situation plays out. LB can wait. Offensively, it’s all about weapons. Interior OL depth can wait. They could use a TE or WR. Campbell/TE/WR? I’m going WR.

25. Seattle – RB Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois

Is this Holmgren’s last ride? If so, could that play a role in draft decisions (looking to fill more immediate needs?) Let’s look at them. Defensively, their isn’t a glaring need, but DB talent is still possible. Front 7 seems unlikely here, with only DE value being tempting and that clearly isn’t a need. OL is a brief thought here, but value/fit seems iffy as well. TE? An area to look at. WR? A darkhorse. Value on RB is too good. I don’t want to make this pick, with Shaun/Maurice both signed down, but I don’t see a trade that really excites.

26, Jacksonville – DE Calais Campbell, Miami (Fl.)

I think their top two needs are DE and WR. Safety has been brought up, but Sensabaugh will be back. CB is an idea, but it likely can wait. OL is also a thought. With Campbell on the board, it may be too tempting to pass.

27. Baltimore f/ San Diego – QB Andre’ Woodson, Kentucky

I think they look trade. They could use the picks. Their secondary could use another asset, and they could use a RT. Taking a DB here seems a bit unnecessary (not a glaring need), and RT is off. Some team may look to move up to snag a QB or RB. I don’t want to make this move for Baltimore. I had the Josh Johnson plan (the Harbaugh connection). Add in a need at CB, and I wanted to wait. At the end of the day, though, can they? Troy Smith is nice, but the chances of them going in with Troy as the man? I find it unlikely.

28. Atlanta f/ Dallas – RB Felix Jones, Arkansas

They picked up a stud back. CB is a thought. WR is a possibility. OL? DL? They could look to deal down, and I wonder if a team decides to bolt up for the falling Felix Jones. Before I forget, it’s not inconceivable that the Niners look at Jones. I still have my doubts on the Gore fit for Martz. Who? Some Falcons fans probably hate this draft. Let’s get something out of the way. Jones isn’t Norwood. He’s not a bruiser, but he’s a potential everydown back. I think Dallas, like New England, would look at futures as well.

29. San Francisco f/ Indianapolis – WR Early Doucet, LSU

WR is a thought. Manningham/Avery, though, seem like the fits, which makes me pause. What else? DL is nice. Is Moore nice? LB? I wouldn’t rule out QB, to be honest. DB seems like something that they can wait on. TE? Seems unlikely here. As much as Mario and Donnie may be better fits, I could see them liking Doucet the way they liked Bowe last year.

30. Green Bay – LB Dan Connor, Penn State

I’ve got a darkhorse in mind, but other things would need to happen. As such, your standard CB/LB look here. I’m thinking of two in particular, Ikegwuonu or Dan Connor here. After much debating, the nod goes to Connor.

31. New York Giants – OT Sam Baker, USC

A lot of areas they could look. WR can wait. Defensively, DT value is off. LB? DB? Ikegwuonu gets a long look, but I end up going with Sam Baker here.

32. New England – forfeited

2nd Round

33. Miami Dolphins – DL Dre’ Moore, Maryland

I thought OL here for the longest time, but who really fits the type of player that Parcells likes and is of value here? Perhaps Nicks? Seems more prudent to go OL with their late 2nd rounder. I wouldn’t rule out QB here just yet. Same goes for TE. Is there a trade? Perhaps, but I’m going Moore here, provided he has a solid postseason the rest of the way.

34. St. Louis Rams – WR James Hardy, Indiana

Could big workout numbers get them to pull the trigger here on say, Quentin Groves? Lawrence Jackson as a DE thought is another option. I can’t help but wonder if the WR value is too good. There’s guys with size, something Linehan might desire. Waiting on the 40’s.

35. Kansas City – OT Carl Nicks, Nebraska

This was the risk in passing on OL earlier. The options look iffy here. I don’t think they can afford to wait anymore, though. I’m looking Collins or Nicks here, and leaning Nicks. Does this address their LT question? Not sold.

36. Atlanta Falcons – OT Anthony Collins, Kansas

They need OL help. Might be a slight reach, but can they wait with the way OL talent is coming off the board?

37. New York Jets – WR Mario Manningham, Michigan

They nabbed a CB earlier. What now? LB, inside or out, could be a look. Defensive line would be nice. WR? OT? RB? The value is at WR, although Rubin is awfully tempting and may end up here.

38. New Orleans Saints f/ Oakland Raiders – LB Phillip Wheeler, Georgia Tech

Is there a trade? They could use additional assets considering they lack a 3rd. There’s a lot of intriguing DB talent lying around. I wonder, considering the small price, if the Saints may jump up to get someone they want with San Diego perhaps looking DB and the Niners perhaps looking LB. The nod goes to Phillip Wheeler as a big LB presence in the middle for the.

39. San Diego f/ Baltimore Ravens – OT Heath Benedict, Newberry

OL or DB? Tough calls. OT seems a small reach here. The value of the DB’s are good. At the end of the day, I go OT to fill a more immediate need.

40. San Francisco 49ers – NG Ahtyba Rubin, Iowa State

They hope they added a lead receiver earlier. What now? OL is a possible thought, although they have some chips in place. QB is something I wouldn’t rule out just yet. Part of me thinks DB is a darkhorse. LB is still a look, despite missing on Wheeler. DL and Rubin? They’ll get a long, hard look at Rubin at the Senior Bowl

41. Oakland Raiders f/ New Orleans Saints – DE Lawrence Jackson, USC

The rebuilding of that defense continues with another USC tie. Is 2 DL guys necessary? Probably not, but it would really help.

42. Buffalo Bills – CB Reggie Smith, Oklahoma

They added a LB earlier. What now ? TE is tempting. WR is a thought. Defensive line wouldn’t hurt if there was value. But the top value may be Reggie Smith, and he may fit as a corner for the system.

43. Denver Broncos – LB Ali Highsmith, LSU

I looked for a deal, but I couldn’t find one. They do have 2 4th’s, which should help. They went OL earlier. LB/S/DT could be possibilities. DT lacks value. S is fringy, so nod goes LB here.

44. Carolina – WR Andre Caldwell, Florida

They picked up an OT earlier. WR could be a long look here. DL is a thought as well. Nod’s going WR as I don’t like the DT value enough, and not sold on DE being worth it here. Perhaps instead of a big guy, they look for the speed to open things up for Smith.

45. Chicago – QB Brian Brohm, Louisville

They added a big, bruising back earlier. Hopefully, he’s better than Benson. What now? OL should get consideration. Safety value seems fringy. WR can’t be ruled out. Neither can DT, but value is gone. OL/WR or the solid QB values? OL is fringy. WR/QB? Ugh, I hate this.

46. Detroit – LB Jerod Mayo, Tennessee

They added a DE earlier. What now? I still say DT shouldn’t be written off. LB/CB are thoughts. RB likely can wait if they pass early. Nod goes LB. I wanted to get Mayo higher.

47. Cincinnati – LB Xavier Adibi, Virginia Tech

They got a pass rusher earlier. What now? While offense is a thought, I’m still leaning defense. DT value seems fringy. A LB might be nice, even with Brooks returning. A weakside backer that can fly around like Adibi might fit well.

48. Minnesota – WR Earl Bennett, Vanderbilt

For some reason, I just think Bennett is the type of WR they may look at. Reggie Brown-ish perhaps.

49. Dallas f/ Houston via Atlanta – CB Jack Ikegwuonu, Wisconsin

Another trade may be a thought, but Ikegwuonu’s value is too good here.

50. Philadelphia – DB Charles Godfrey, Iowa

Defensive end earlier. OL is a thought in a developmental mode. WR is a possibility. Then, there are the DB needs. I wonder if Godfrey may tempt them. If he struggles at CB, he could become their free safety replacement for Dawkins.

51. Arizona – OT John Greco, Toledo

They added a CB earlier. What now? OL? DL? Rush backer? RB? I wonder if a workmanlike tackle like Greco could interest Grimm. With Leinart as the QB, Greco at LT is more palatable.

52. Washington – WR Limas Sweed, Texas

Eh, feel like I’ve been lazy on looking for 2nd round trades. I have some target ideas here, but nothing comes to mind for a partner. Adding McKelvin earlier could have them looking WR/DE/OL here. Nod goes to WR and the big Limas Sweed. Of course, we’ll have to wait on the HC/OC to see if he fits.

53. Tampa Bay – RB Chris Johnson, East Carolina

WR is tempting, but a good value RB like Johnson to pair with Graham may be enticing.

54. Seattle f/ Pittsburgh – TE Martellus Bennett, Texas A&M

I wonder if Seattle may decide to secure the TE they want, as Tennessee is a thought. They may move higher to secure that player. TE fills an immediate need. Pittsburgh may be amenable to a move down. Character is an issue, but well, they did take Stevens once upon a time, and Bennett’s issues aren’t that bad.

55. Tennessee – TE Fred Davis, USC

The add weapons for Vince offseason continues.

56. Pittsburgh f/ Seattle – WR Devin Thomas, Michigan State

Bolted up for OL earlier. What now? WR/RB both have to garner some consideration. More DL might be nice. CB? I’m tempted with 2 DL guys here but opt for WR in the end and a potential big, explosive target.

57. Cleveland – RB Jamaal Charles, Texas

What do they do here? There isn’t an offensive need that could/should be addressed here. WR can wait. So, defense. What? DL would be nice. Who? A pass rusher is a thought. Ellis’ character will have to check out. But Jamaal Charles is too tempting as someone to groom behind Jamal Lewis.

58. Miami f/ San Diego – OL Oneil Cousins, UTEP

I feel like there’s a trade that should be made somewhere here with some guys that are slipping, but I am having a hard time pinpointing who. Thus, a pick we go. More DL is a thought. OL is a definite focus. What else? DB is a possibility. OL talent has flown off the board. Cousins reminds me a bit of Vernon Carey, but they can use whatever help there is and he could be an interesting developmental project for Sparano.

59. Jacksonville – WR Jordy Nelson, Kansas State

They could use a speedy WR to stretch things. I wonder if Jordy Nelson is tempting here. The issue is, he’s so much like their other WR’s. He’s fast, but not quick.

60. St. Louis Rams f/ Indianapolis – DE Chris Ellis, Virginia Tech

Finally pull the trigger on a deal. Indianapolis could certainly be open to adding assets. St. Louis could find Chris Ellis quite tempting. Sure, some character concerns, but worth the risk here.

61. Green Bay – CB Antoine Cason, Arizona

After passing on CB, they look here. A lot of options still on the board in this mock. A solid player like Antoine Cason may be quite tempting here.

62. New York Jets f/ Dallas – DL Demario Pressley, North Carolina State

They do need to address the DL, and while this may be a little early, better safe than never.

63. New York Giants – CB Tracy Porter, Indiana

CB and LB could receive looks here. Coach up King? Porter’s ready in coverage though.

64. New England – ILB Curtis Lofton, Oklahoma

I had a trade lined up, but passed. I was trying to get Lofton in earlier, but where? And who? Who moves up for Lofton?

3rd Round

65. Miami – CB Justin King, Penn State

More OL was a thought, but King seems tempting to start day 2.

66. Indianapolis f/ St. Louis – OL Chad Rinehart, Northern Iowa

Could use OL and DL looks. Leaning OL here initially.

67. New England Patriots f/ Atlanta Falcons – OLB Ezra Butler, Nevada

Jumping his protégé for a rush backer.

68. NY Jets – OT Tony Hills, Texas

Need a RT.

69. Atlanta Falcons f/ Oakland via New England – OL Branden Albert, Virginia

More OL is a possibility.

70. Kansas City Chiefs – CB Terrell Thomas, USC

CB or WR? CB value is probably better.

71. San Francisco – OLB/DE Quentin Groves, Auburn

Don’t discount QB here. That said, I’m thinking defense and the falling Groves as being too tempting here.

72. Buffalo f/ Baltimore – TE John Carlson, Notre Dame

2 defensive pieces earlier. DL is a thought here, but the look goes to offense. First up, TE.

73. Buffalo – WR Jerome Simpson, Coastal Carolina

Again, DL is a thought. But WR gets the nod.

74. Minnesota f/ Denver – TE Jermichael Finley, Texas

S and WR have been added. DE is a thought, but at this point, it seems unlikely. Nod goes to TE or RT. TE has better value.

75. Carolina – DT Trevor Laws, Notre Dame

Defense or QB here? It’s all about the upcoming year for now.

76. Chicago – OL Drew Radovich, USC

OT is the need, but the value is weak. An OG could be a useful addition next year as well.

77. Detroit – CB Dwight Lowery, San Jose State

CB help is needed.

78. Cincinnati – DT Andre Fluellen, Florida State

They could use an interior pass rush. There are some offensive areas of concern.

79. New Orleans – CB Brandon Flowers, Virginia Tech

I wonder if Usama Young convinces them to pass on a CB if they wait this long.

80. Houston – RB Steve Slaton, West Virginia

One of the few places Slaton makes a lot of sense. The lightning to the load that is Dayne.

81. Philadelphia – WR Lavelle Hawkins, California

A number of directions pondered. Just wonder if another weapon would be a thought.

82. Arizona – LB Erin Henderson, Maryland

The falling Henderson may be a tempting interior backer option.

83. New England f/ Minnesota – CB Trae Williams, South Florida

Just seems like their type of corner.

84. Tampa Bay – QB Joe Flacco, Delaware

Wanted WR, seems better to wait another round to fill that void. A lot of QB value here.

85. Washington – DE Kendall Langford, Hampton

Snatching DE before the Titans. OL is a concern.

86. Tennessee – DE Jeremy Thompson, Wake Forest

If Odom leaves, he’s a somewhat similar talent.

87. Seattle – DB Jonathan Hefney, Tennessee

I’m thinking DB and the versatile Hefney.

88. Cleveland – DL Marcus Harrison, Arkansas

They gambled on Wright last year. A gamble here might be smart.

89. Houston f/ Pittsburgh – LB Geno Hayes, Florida State

Tempted with some edge guys, but value looks to be there in the 4th. Hayes could be a playmaker.

90. Jacksonville – OG Chilo Rachal, USC

Could use an interior guy to develop.

91. Chicago f/ San Diego – S Quintin Demps, UTEP

An area that could sorely use an upgrade.

92. Green Bay – QB Chad Henne, Michigan

What? Here’s a question they have to ask. There’s 2 more years left on Rodgers contract. If Favre plays 2 more years, are they certain Rodgers will come back? They get good value and a 3rd QB to work in there for now, with Rodgers as the steady backup.

93. New York Jets f/ Dallas – OLB/DE Darrell Robertson, Georgia Tech

A rush backer to develop.

94. Indianapolis – DT Richard Clebert, South Florida

Time to look DL? I really like this … so it probably won’t happen.

95. New York Giants – LB Beau Bell, UNLV

Seems too tempting to pass here.

96. Denver f/ New England – S DaJuan Morgan, NC State

One final trade for good measure? That said, if the Pats do as they have done above, I wouldn’t be shocked to see them slide out. If Denver only has to give up one 4th rounder, I think they’d be intrigued. WR is a thought, but can they sit on wait on a safety?

Some names left:

QB: Josh Johnson, John David Booty, Colt Brennan, Kevin O’Connell, Dennis Dixon
RB/FB: Kevin Smith, Ray Rice, Matt Forte, Tashard Choice, Mike Hart, Owen Schmitt, Peyton Hillis
TE: Martin Rucker, Jacob Tamme, Brad Cottam
WR: Adarius Bowman
OL: Mike Pollak, Steve Justice, Kirk Barton, Roy Schuening, Robert Felton, Mike McGlynn
DE: Wallace Gilberry, Jason Jones, Johnny Dingle
DT: Frank Okam, Red Bryant, Nick Hayden, Lionel Dotson
LB: Shawn Crable, Bruce Davis, Tavares Gooden, Jordon Dizon, Titus Brown, Cliff Avril
CB: Chevis Jackson, Patrick Lee, DeJuan Tribble, Terrence Wheatley
S: Thomas DeCoud, Jamar Adams, Craig Steltz, Tyrell Johnson

What am I significantly bothered by (names that I think should be in the top 3 rounds)

I think another QB sneaks in, and the favorite would be Johnson. I wonder if I’m not giving interior OL guys enough value. Some of those edge guys, particularly Crable, should be in there, and maybe Avril. Jackson and Lee not being in bothers me a bit.

gsorace
01-23-2008, 01:00 PM
CB is near the bottom of the list of needs for the Jets, if that scenario played out I'd much rather have Malcolm Kelly there

derza222
01-23-2008, 01:03 PM
The trade is interesting, and I definitely coudl see it happening one way or another with DMC on the board especially since it seems we have a good trading relationship with the Cowboys. That said, where do you see Carpenter fitting in for us? The only problem I have with the deal is we're drafting Robertson and you don't have us trading Vilma. Unless you see Bryan Thomas as on the outs (he did sign an extension last year so I'm not sure what we'd do with him) that leaves us with Carpenter as an inside or outside guy, Vilma and Harris inside, and Robertson and Thomas on the outside. I kind of like Carpenter better inside for us since we need to generate some sort of a pass rush and I don't see us doing that with Carpenter, Harris, Vilma, and Thomas starting. I'm also not sure where that leaves Robertson long-term as neither Thomas nor Carpenter would likely be leaving soon. All in all, just wondering how you thought that would work out.

As for the picks, both third rounders are very solid, how is Hills in the run game? Improving our blocking there is very important, though protecting Clemens is possibly more important. I'm starting to think that we'll look there within the first two picks. Second round is interesting, Rubin is tough to pass on though Manningham has nice value and Pressley is a solid pick, a bit of a reach as you said but fills a need. Talib I do think would be a great fit there, Kelly is very tempting as I think he'd fit a big need of ours in helping our RZ offense but I think as a #2 across from Revis he's a very nice fit. Overall a very interesting mock, huge increase in overall talent with the trade I'm just curious how you see the linebackers working out. Also, what would the variation with the two firsts have looked like?

tjsunstein
01-23-2008, 01:08 PM
Packers picks are good. Cason in the second is a gift.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 01:15 PM
Headed out, but caught this and since it's both for the same team

1. I didn't do veteran trades. That is, a trade centered around veteran. If things were to fall, I'd expect Vilma to be moved for something, with Carpenter/Harris inside, with Thomas outside and Robertson/someone pairing. Yes, it's an odd situation, but I just didn't do pure veteran deals.

2. By no means would this be an ideal mock for the Jets. It happened that the DL talent went early. If there's DL talent, I think they look that way. If there's edge talent, I think they look that way as well.

3. The variations would've been both firsts and maybe the third, or something more expansive where the Jets would have to toss a pick back. Just got complex. I also think Dallas would be more amenable to dealing if they could keep a first.

Vikes99ej
01-23-2008, 01:15 PM
Absolutely beautiful Vikings picks. I think there will be some good DEs in free agency this year.

fenikz
01-23-2008, 01:16 PM
Not really a fan of Greco in the 2nd and Henderson in the 3rd is good value but would only be used as a backup, unless we move Dansby back outside. We need a speed pass rusher, it's our 2nd biggest need, as we averaged just over 2 sacks a game, and pressuring the QB would help take some pressure off our secondary. We could possible select Lofton in the 2nd and move Dansby outside, he has 8 sacks last year as an OLB or take Shawn Crable in the 3rd

Draft King
01-23-2008, 01:17 PM
I'm not going to argue Ryan, most know what Falcons fans think of that. Though we need a RB, Felix Jones isn't the type of guy we are looking for. We are looking for a big bruising back to pound out the yards, as we already have a speedster in Norwood. I see that as a wasted pick and would much rather have a guy like 'Dre Moore or Sam Baker here.

Draft King
01-23-2008, 01:18 PM
Just looking at it again Run DMc, Sam Baker, and Brian Brohm looks so much better than Matt Ryan, Felix Jones, and Anthony Collins.

UK Cards Fan
01-23-2008, 01:22 PM
Toonster, great work as usual.

I love the Cards' first round pick. We definitely need a #1 CB. Roderick Hood / Eric Green are good #2 CBs but struggle against a team's #1 WR. Jenkins / McKelvin both seem good enough options as potential #1s especially if Stewart is off the board (and we can always draft a RB later.) One question however, do you think Calais Campbell can play a 3-4 DE or OLB? If he could, I think he could be an alternative option, unless we sign a 3-4 OLB and resign Pace.

The second round pick works, although personally I'd like to see us getting John Carlson. Ben Patrick and Leonard Pope are both good receivers but both struggle heavily with blocking. Having a TE who can stay in and block (even average) and catch the ball could be an option with Whiz's background as a former TE, and as someone who likes to get the TEs involved (especially with the Cards likely to lose Bryant Johnson this offseason.)

The third round pick works (we drafted an ILB last year in round three that didn't quite work out!) although I believe Dansby is slated to be more of an ILB in the 3-4 and Gerald Hayes is a pure MLB. Can Henderson play outside as if not he would likely be a pure depth guy? I think the Cards would want a guy who could play outside or inside depending upon Pendergast's scheme, especially if we can't agree terms with Calvin Pace. I'd also think we may look towards RB in 3 given the depth (Ray Rice / Kevin Smith?). Edge isn't getting younger and is particuarly unexplosive; and Arrington has shown nothing to suggest he is a primary RB. Marcel Shipp also didn't get a lot of touches so I don't think he's likely to be an option there, unfortunately.

One additional question. Do you think there's any chance the Cards go QB in 3/4/5, especially if Warner gets moved on to avoid a QB issue? A guy like Colt Brennan, or Erik Ainge later could be an option? I know plenty of Cards fans, and apparently some of the players/coaches aren't totally sold on Leinart. (Arm strength and dedication being the key concerns.) I guess a pick around that range could be insurance incase Leinart bombs (and to provide potential competition to get Leinart commited) without necessarily being an automatic takeover.

hugegmenfan
01-23-2008, 01:28 PM
Give the giants Dejuan Morgan 3rd round and it is a great mock draft. SAm Baker is a total steal there, but the giants have a history of passing up on USC tackles.

derza222
01-23-2008, 01:34 PM
Headed out, but caught this and since it's both for the same team

1. I didn't do veteran trades. That is, a trade centered around veteran. If things were to fall, I'd expect Vilma to be moved for something, with Carpenter/Harris inside, with Thomas outside and Robertson/someone pairing. Yes, it's an odd situation, but I just didn't do pure veteran deals.

2. By no means would this be an ideal mock for the Jets. It happened that the DL talent went early. If there's DL talent, I think they look that way. If there's edge talent, I think they look that way as well.

3. The variations would've been both firsts and maybe the third, or something more expansive where the Jets would have to toss a pick back. Just got complex. I also think Dallas would be more amenable to dealing if they could keep a first.

That makes a lot more sense then. Thanks for clearing up the LB situation.

Obviously it's not an ideal mock for the Jets, but it's really not too bad. More realistic than most mocks because you have trends, DL and OL talent going early which are our biggest needs, causing us to go in other directions. A guy like Cherilus would be a great fit at 22 if available, but he's not and I think Talib was the right call there and a good fit. Not sold on the Manningham fit but it's interesting and he does seem to add a nice element to our offense that would fit with Clemens, he could fill a role sort of similar to Berrian who supposedly we've shown an interest in. Overall I like it because a lot of needs got filled, some of them were more minor but I think a draft like this would really increase the talent level of our team and I wouldn't be surprised if something like that went down for us.

In that case, I think I prefer the trade you did because it allows us to fill more needs (assuming Vilma's definitely on the outs, if not obviously the one with both firsts is probably better).

JT Jag
01-23-2008, 01:45 PM
Bad Jags mock.

T-RICH49
01-23-2008, 01:54 PM
still not sold on Nicks personally.Collins is my preferred choice(of course I am a KU homer) other two picks I love

etk
01-23-2008, 01:56 PM
1. Campbell
2. Flowers
3. J. Johnson

Would be the best draft a man can ask for. The first 2 picks were decent, but not the best. I don't like Flacco in the WCO so I didn't like that pick at all.

Jay
01-23-2008, 03:19 PM
I don't mind the first two picks for the Pats. Desean Jackson would be fantastic. I think Jabar Gaffney will be back, and I think the main reason you didn't see much of Chad Jackson this year isn't because he hasn't developed, but because, well, it's hard to get ahead of Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney. If they don't plan on bringing Jabar OR Donte back, this pick is perfect. If they bring one back, it would have to be because Deseaon was the BPA at that point, which I don't have beef with.

I like the Lofton pick.

The rest... it's creative. I guess I don't know that they'd jump up two spots for a DT with plenty of great corners there and Quentin Groves, a guy who can play up and down, so that first third rounder is curious to me...

Bills2083
01-23-2008, 04:03 PM
If we pass on Sweed in the 2nd, I'll be mad.
WR is much more of a need than CB.
This draft would be better...

1.) Keith Rivers
2.) Limas Sweed
3.) John Carlson
3.) Tracy Porter

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 04:15 PM
Had a moment, so filling in a few other answers. Btw, even though I am defending my mock, it doesn't mean that I like it. But I did give thought to each pick.

Three random thoughts first:

1. Pat Sims is pretty high here. I still believe the value from around 11-50 isn't all that different, but he would need a strong offseason to move up.

2. I could see Parcells pursuing the Carpenter/Spears combo that's rumored to be available. Not sure what it would take.

3. I could see the Ravens trading for John Beck to address their QB issue.

Starting back with

Jets - The reason I didn't go Kelly there was because I'm a believe in mixed skillsets unless it's overwhelming talent. By no means am I suggesting Cotchery and Kelly are exactly the same, but there are similarities, and as of this moment in time, I'm not sure Kelly is a standout level talent. I tend to think the Jackson's, Avery's, Manningham's make more sense for the Jets (and it wouldn't surprise me if Manningham is considered value in the 20's).

Cardinals - I actually like that idea of Lofton in the 2nd. That makes some sense and would remove the issue I had with the OL and stretch things out a bit. To respond to UK, I have a tough time buying TE there. It's possible, but ... is it necessary? At least, is a receiving TE in the 2nd necessary for what Whiz wants, particularly when solid receiving options will be available in the 5th/6th this year? I don't think Carlson falls into the dynamic category to merit it, but who knows (and he's a solid blocker as well). As for Erin Henderson, I just wonder if Dansby is better utilized on the outside where his pass rushing ability can be put to use. but sure, I could see an ILB, and I like fenikz idea. Don't know why that didn't pass my mind.

Falcons - Ryan aside, I'm a bit perplexed with the argument from Falcons fans that they need a big physical back. I think it's something they could look at to pair with Norwood, but they could just go for a lead back instead of a big physical back. After all, what if the new HC/OC decide to put some zone blocking in there. New England zone blocks more than acknowledged. I think the assumption is being made right now either based on Petrino's preference for a big back or the idea that Mike Smith might prefer a big back, but short of it is, I don't think anyone knows right now other than that Norwood likely isn't a lead back.

Giants - DaJuan Morgan before LB when there is solid value at safety later? Admittedly, that idea didn't pass my mind. Interesting thought, though, if you assume that the LB starting slots can be filled with what's there or FA.

Jaguars - I'm guessing it's the 2nd rounder you don't like? Or the first rounder? I have a hard time thinking that Calais would be a bad pick when end is a concern. As for the 3rd rounder, could've gone a number of directions there. I can buy it. I can also buy Jack Del Rio liking Jordy Nelson for some odd reason.

Chiefs - I like Collins, but is he the top run blocker with upside that you want there? I think Nicks is a better run blocker at this stage and the LT potential/pass protection between Nicks and Collins isn't different by that much.

Buccaneers - Starting backwards. Flacco or Josh Johnson. That was a tough call. Thing is, I don't think any QB would be depended on anytime soon. Flacco offers the big arm that Gruden has desired and he has the time now to develop Flacco. Beyond the fact, on my board, it was a big steal. As necessary as corner is, I'm not sure if CB is worth it in the 2nd. Solid corners, particularly for the defense, will be there in the 4th and on. I was more inclined to think WR ahead of CB. As for DE or DT ... I just was thinking that IF Sims is worth it there (and Campbell is no certainty to be worth it there either), he would potentially help the run defense and add a top young interior piece, and that, with Adams, you can wait to find a strongside end later on (Gilberry/Jones still being on the board entering the 4th).

Patriots - A bit confused. I had them take Ezra Butler with the first third rounder as a rush backer to develop. Granted, that was one thing I didn't like about this mock, Ezra Butler going so late. The 2nd pick was corner, with Trae Williams. In total, the Pats mock was

DeSean Jackson, Curtis Lofton, Ezra Butler, Trae Williams, along with a 3rd/4th in 2009, and an additional this year.

I'll respond to other stuff later this evening. Headed out again.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 04:17 PM
If we pass on Sweed in the 2nd, I'll be mad.
WR is much more of a need than CB.
This draft would be better...

1.) Keith Rivers
2.) Limas Sweed
3.) John Carlson
3.) Tracy Porter

I'm still waiting to see who the OC is. Beyond that, all the big WR's have speed questions to address. I also don't see Porter making it to your 2nd 3rd rounder, but it's not impossible (I had him going end of the 2nd).. That said, his man skills are too good for me to think he'd drop that far. It's possible, though.

defensiveback23
01-23-2008, 04:39 PM
Benedict looks like a perfect fit at RT for the Chargers. He may be a reach at that point but AJ Smith has proven he is not afraid to reach when he really likes a player.

Although, Reggie Smith might be too sweet to pass up in that situation. He would be a perfect fit for the Chargers because of his versatility. With Florence a virtual certainty to leave for greener pastures and rumors about Paul Oliver moving to safety taking Smith would cover all the bases. If Oliver doesn't show he can handle nickelback Smith would fill that role but if he is up to the task then Smith can be groomed to replace Hart at safety eventually.

Jay
01-23-2008, 04:44 PM
Patriots - A bit confused. I had them take Ezra Butler with the first third rounder as a rush backer to develop. Granted, that was one thing I didn't like about this mock, Ezra Butler going so late. The 2nd pick was corner, with Trae Williams. In total, the Pats mock was DeSean Jackson, Curtis Lofton, Ezra Butler, Trae Williams, along with a 3rd/4th in 2009, and an additional this year.

Yeah, Butler is the one I don't understand. They took a DT in the fourth round last year and already have Mike Wright backing up Vince Wilfork. Seymour and Warren are FA sooner and I'd think grabbing someone like Quentin Groves that can play up or down would make more sense if they are going DLine there. I'd prefer taking a CB earlier and getting DLine later, though... but that's just me...

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 04:46 PM
Um ... Butler is a LB, not a defensive lineman. A solid comparison for him would be Adalius Thomas provided the athleticism is as good as anticipated (otherwise, he could fall). He has played end before, but he's played a rush backer role the last couple of years and has the versatility to slide inside.

DiG
01-23-2008, 04:50 PM
not a bad skins draft. i love leodis in rd 1.

sweed would be good value in rd 2 and hard to say no to if we dont add a wr in fa or through trade though id prefer a de or guard.

the problem i have is with langford. he seems too big to play DE. at 296 id think he was more of an inside guy than a de. i think jason jones could be a better fit.

TitanHope
01-23-2008, 04:54 PM
I like the Titans Draft. But, here's some input:

1st RD - Malcolm Kelly, WR - Currently, I like WR in the 1st RD, but that may change. I'll get to that in a sec, but I do like Kelly. Good hands. Good size. I wonder how fast he'll time. Vince's accuracy can vary, so having a big WR is nice.

But as I was saying, WR may not be a 1st RD need. Besides the fact that we don't usually take WR's early, this is a deep class. We could get a talent in the 2nd RD, such as Devin Thomas, Adrian Arrington, Adarius Bowman, etc. You know all this already, though. But, there is a rumor that D.J. Hackett is scheduled to visit Tennessee, and he has Seattle ties with Reinfeldt. If Hackett signs, he will instantly be the best WR on roster and may allow us to pass on WR in the 1st. Maybe even wait until the 3rd RD? Who knows, but FA will determine this pick.

2nd RD - Fred Davis, TE - Great pick, and may be the best TE in the class. TE is a large need, so you can basically plug any TE here and it would be a good pick.

Other options would depend on going WR in the 1st. If we go with Calais Campbell in the 1st, for example, a big WR like Thomas or Bowman would be good. Rucker or Finley would be there in the 3rd, hopefully, and I don't know if they're that far back from the likes of Davis. If we do go WR in the 1st, Chris Ellis would be tempting. Maybe a MIKE is Goff or Lofton. And you can't rule out CB with PacMan's antics.

3rd RD - Jeremy Thompson, DE - I don't know much about him, but he looks good and fills a a need.

Other nice picks would probably be Adarius Bowman or Adrian Arrington, pending if we go WR earlier. Rucker is still available at TE. And I didn't see Goff in the draft, so I assume he's there too. And Okam may be tempting this late, despite his questions. Sucks Langford goes one pick ahead of us >_<"


Anyway, good Draft for the Titans. It's tricky for us, as Free Agency will decide if we use the Draft to improve or to make up for lost players. Then, you can make one pick and then justify an alternate player's selection just as easily. You did well despite that, and I look forward to your other Mocks.

Addict
01-23-2008, 04:55 PM
Harvey, Mayo and CB... solid Toon, very solid. Even though I'd really love to get Mendenhall, need dictates Harvey is the better pick. Solid A+ let's hope millen reads this as a bible.

Jay
01-23-2008, 05:01 PM
Um ... Butler is a LB, not a defensive lineman. A solid comparison for him would be Adalius Thomas provided the athleticism is as good as anticipated (otherwise, he could fall). He has played end before, but he's played a rush backer role the last couple of years and has the versatility to slide inside.

I'm sorry, for some reason I thought I saw DT...

JCutlery
01-23-2008, 06:56 PM
I don't know a whole lot about Chris Williams, but I'm not a big fan of using a top-15 pick on him. Then again, I'm not crazy about anyone still left on the board. In that situation, I would personally trade down or go Mendenhall/Stewart if I was forced to pick.

Highsmith and Morgan are great picks, though I'd like to see us get a DT. Besides Marcus Thomas, we have nothing.

BamaFalcon59
01-23-2008, 07:35 PM
I think this is pretty bad for Atlanta. But first I would like to know thoughts on Mike Smith.

-Ryan is fine.
-I liked the trade up but Jones? Worst possible first round runningback. Seems like you did it to just stop him dropping. Horrible fit and way too similar to Norwood and why take a guy who has never carried a load when that is what we need? Just a horrible pick.
-Collins? No. Too small and I don't see the value.
-Albert I like, but nose tackle and middle linebacker are bigger needs. Fine pick though.

The second round picks, especially the Jones pick, was bad.

Crickett
01-23-2008, 08:02 PM
Jets - The reason I didn't go Kelly there was because I'm a believe in mixed skillsets unless it's overwhelming talent. By no means am I suggesting Cotchery and Kelly are exactly the same, but there are similarities, and as of this moment in time, I'm not sure Kelly is a standout level talent. I tend to think the Jackson's, Avery's, Manningham's make more sense for the Jets (and it wouldn't surprise me if Manningham is considered value in the 20's).

Other people might consider Manningham value in the 20's. I consider him an early third round guy and someone I'd much rather see as far away from New York as possible, unless of course you mean across the line of scrimmage. The first job of any wide receiver is to catch the football. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter how fast you are or what college you went to or anything else. You need to be able to catch the football. Manningham has a serious case of the dropsies and because of that, I don't want him anywhere near the Jets. If the Jets wanted someone like that, they could simply keep Justin "waste of a roster spot" McCareins. I didn't really want to discuss the entire mock draft as the Jets/Cowboys trade completely incensed me. I try to be fairly constructive in my criticism and any full review I make of this mock is most definitely not going to be that.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 08:34 PM
not a bad skins draft. i love leodis in rd 1.

sweed would be good value in rd 2 and hard to say no to if we dont add a wr in fa or through trade though id prefer a de or guard.

the problem i have is with langford. he seems too big to play DE. at 296 id think he was more of an inside guy than a de. i think jason jones could be a better fit.

It was a toss up between Jones and Langford, but Langford's supposedly in the 270-280 range and lean. Whether or not he can maintain it, who knows.

DLionALL
01-23-2008, 08:35 PM
Overall, I like the Eagles draft a lot. Deals with some of our bigger needs and I like the order of DE, CB and then WR.

1) Not sure if Merling will go over Campbell, but the Defensive End pick is good, i'd be happy with either one.

2) Second rock pick is pretty good too, but again I think they'd be more inclined to take Cason or Porter. Although I might just be saying that because I don't know that much about Godfrey. Saw a little of him at Senior Bowl practice, and i'm no scout but he looked solid.

3) Love the pick. Hawkins looks great and I think he'd be a great target alongside Curtis and Brown.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 08:36 PM
I'm sorry, for some reason I thought I saw DT...

You are probably referencing my comments for their round 1 pick. I don't think it's inconceivable they look to DL earlier than some think. I'm not saying it's a front burner focus for them, but I do think it might be in the back of their minds. More than likely, though, DL probably gets addressed late, and in the 2009 draft, when Seymour and Green will be entering the final years of their deal.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 08:42 PM
I don't know a whole lot about Chris Williams, but I'm not a big fan of using a top-15 pick on him. Then again, I'm not crazy about anyone still left on the board. In that situation, I would personally trade down or go Mendenhall/Stewart if I was forced to pick.

Highsmith and Morgan are great picks, though I'd like to see us get a DT. Besides Marcus Thomas, we have nothing.

RB? I've got a hard time seeing that. Admittedly, the situation didn't bode too well. I think I'd prefer to go defense early and OL later. But DT value went off with Balmer at 10, Phillips/Rivers were both off. Williams is a LT that could fit.

To be honest, I expect Shanny to stick his nose into some veteran dealings. I could see him take a look at Vilma (I think that Vilma might only cost a 2nd, which would give them a much better talent than they could get with their 2nd) or Rogers (seems like a Shanny move for some reason.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 09:03 PM
I think this is pretty bad for Atlanta. But first I would like to know thoughts on Mike Smith.

-Ryan is fine.
-I liked the trade up but Jones? Worst possible first round runningback. Seems like you did it to just stop him dropping. Horrible fit and way too similar to Norwood and why take a guy who has never carried a load when that is what we need? Just a horrible pick.
-Collins? No. Too small and I don't see the value.
-Albert I like, but nose tackle and middle linebacker are bigger needs. Fine pick though.

The second round picks, especially the Jones pick, was bad.

Working from the draft before my comments on Mike Smith.

Jones - I did it because Atlanta could use a lead running back. Value motivation was secondary. I don't see how he's similar to Norwood other than he's fast. First off, most indications are that Jones' frame could bulk up a bit more (it wouldn't surprise me that, with NFL strength training, he ends up in the 215 range). 2nd, I think Jones is/plays quicker than Norwood. 3rd, Jones has better running vision. 4th, Jones can run between the tackles. Is he, say, Jonathan Stewart? No. All that said, I don't love the pick. But, I do think RB will be a consideration fairly early.

Collins - I'm just curious why he's too small? We really have no idea what offensive scheme Mike Smith will go with. Sure, there's rumors out there of who might be in the view, but it's all rumors. Collins is around 310-320 right nwo and can get bigger. For a comparative purpose, Smith's current teams LT is around 320 (Khalif Barnes).

As for Smith in general, I'm a fan of him as a defensive coordinator. There's been some talk that he was more of a figurehead, though, so we'll have to wait and see if he can really engender support. There's no doubt that Jacksonville was always Del Rio's squad. That said, Romeo Crennel was viewed as an extension of Belichick, and same goes for Mangini. The jury's still out on both, but it hasn't been a bust yet, which is actually a positive thing. I was impressed with their defense this year, consideirng he didn't have his two massive DT's together a lot. He's been a good positional coach I think (I think he's coached LB's and DL's -perhaps not surprisingly, the defensive front 7 for the Jaguars has been their strength). For the most part, I'm not too worried about him defensively, provided he can get good coaches in there. I'm more curious what he would do offensively. I think most DC's would be inclined to go with ball control type offenses, but then again, could the fact that the offenses have been limitations in the past 2 stops change his mind? My random first thought would be that I wouldn't be surprised if he went out and hired his boss as some sort of offensive consultant (not sure if Billick would want to be the OC). Then again, Billick may opt to take some time off. You look at the Jaguars current staff and I wonder if Tice could get a look as OC or AHC - offense. But the sleeper guess from the Jaguars staff would be Mike Shula. My memory's of Shula's offensive style as an OC is a bit vague. I don't recall a power running attack.

anyhow, just random thoughts. I am more inclined to buy into the possibility of DT if one is available in the first with Smith than with some of their options. At the end of the day, Dimitroff will make that call, though.

Xiomera
01-23-2008, 09:03 PM
I like the Lions mock toonster, but I am starting to think the Lions will do everything in their power to address the DE position before the draft through free agency. I'm hearing that pass rush is their priority here, and they want more of a sure thing at DE to provide instant improvement to the pass rush. A rookie likely won't be an impact player for us.

That said, I like any mock that nets us a DE, MLB, and CB in the first three rounds.

Hell of a job well done.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 09:06 PM
Other people might consider Manningham value in the 20's. I consider him an early third round guy and someone I'd much rather see as far away from New York as possible, unless of course you mean across the line of scrimmage. The first job of any wide receiver is to catch the football. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter how fast you are or what college you went to or anything else. You need to be able to catch the football. Manningham has a serious case of the dropsies and because of that, I don't want him anywhere near the Jets. If the Jets wanted someone like that, they could simply keep Justin "waste of a roster spot" McCareins. I didn't really want to discuss the entire mock draft as the Jets/Cowboys trade completely incensed me. I try to be fairly constructive in my criticism and any full review I make of this mock is most definitely not going to be that.

okay. so you are bashing without bashing? interesting route. i'm a big boy. i can handle online bashing. won't kill me. I wanted to take a moment to say thanks, though. I actually don't really get too intrigued with positive comments. Reality is, when do you actually have a majority of people go "heck yeah, my team had an awesome draft".

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 09:07 PM
Overall, I like the Eagles draft a lot. Deals with some of our bigger needs and I like the order of DE, CB and then WR.

1) Not sure if Merling will go over Campbell, but the Defensive End pick is good, i'd be happy with either one.

2) Second rock pick is pretty good too, but again I think they'd be more inclined to take Cason or Porter. Although I might just be saying that because I don't know that much about Godfrey. Saw a little of him at Senior Bowl practice, and i'm no scout but he looked solid.

3) Love the pick. Hawkins looks great and I think he'd be a great target alongside Curtis and Brown.

Porter was a thought in the 2nd. I didn't lean that way.

The reason I didn't lean Cason was more of a speed issue.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 09:12 PM
I like the Lions mock toonster, but I am starting to think the Lions will do everything in their power to address the DE position before the draft through free agency. I'm hearing that pass rush is their priority here, and they want more of a sure thing at DE to provide instant improvement to the pass rush. A rookie likely won't be an impact player for us.

That said, I like any mock that nets us a DE, MLB, and CB in the first three rounds.

Hell of a job well done.

I'd be the first one to say 97% of this mock won't happen (i can get a 3% chance of getting something correct right? placement, value, actual pick? that's worth 3% ... ), in large part because of free agency.

My other comment would be ... what DE? Taylor comes to mind from Miami, but that one doesn't make that much sense either. Suggs would be ideal ... but I highly doubt that one. McCray doesn't seem all that interesting. I'm just not sure what DE is out there.

BamaFalcon59
01-23-2008, 09:24 PM
Working from the draft before my comments on Mike Smith.

Jones - I did it because Atlanta could use a lead running back. Value motivation was secondary. I don't see how he's similar to Norwood other than he's fast. First off, most indications are that Jones' frame could bulk up a bit more (it wouldn't surprise me that, with NFL strength training, he ends up in the 215 range). 2nd, I think Jones is/plays quicker than Norwood. 3rd, Jones has better running vision. 4th, Jones can run between the tackles. Is he, say, Jonathan Stewart? No. All that said, I don't love the pick. But, I do think RB will be a consideration fairly early.

Collins - I'm just curious why he's too small? We really have no idea what offensive scheme Mike Smith will go with. Sure, there's rumors out there of who might be in the view, but it's all rumors. Collins is around 310-320 right nwo and can get bigger. For a comparative purpose, Smith's current teams LT is around 320 (Khalif Barnes).

As for Smith in general, I'm a fan of him as a defensive coordinator. There's been some talk that he was more of a figurehead, though, so we'll have to wait and see if he can really engender support. There's no doubt that Jacksonville was always Del Rio's squad. That said, Romeo Crennel was viewed as an extension of Belichick, and same goes for Mangini. The jury's still out on both, but it hasn't been a bust yet, which is actually a positive thing. I was impressed with their defense this year, consideirng he didn't have his two massive DT's together a lot. He's been a good positional coach I think (I think he's coached LB's and DL's -perhaps not surprisingly, the defensive front 7 for the Jaguars has been their strength). For the most part, I'm not too worried about him defensively, provided he can get good coaches in there. I'm more curious what he would do offensively. I think most DC's would be inclined to go with ball control type offenses, but then again, could the fact that the offenses have been limitations in the past 2 stops change his mind? My random first thought would be that I wouldn't be surprised if he went out and hired his boss as some sort of offensive consultant (not sure if Billick would want to be the OC). Then again, Billick may opt to take some time off. You look at the Jaguars current staff and I wonder if Tice could get a look as OC or AHC - offense. But the sleeper guess from the Jaguars staff would be Mike Shula. My memory's of Shula's offensive style as an OC is a bit vague. I don't recall a power running attack.

anyhow, just random thoughts. I am more inclined to buy into the possibility of DT if one is available in the first with Smith than with some of their options. At the end of the day, Dimitroff will make that call, though.

Fast. Kick returner. Quick. Hands. Questions on carrying the load.

You are underestimating Norwoods inside running in vision. Both are excellent, especially his cutback ability and vision. The problem is durability. Norwood packs more of a punch than Felix Jones on contact, I assure you that.

Felix Jones was 197 out of highschool. He is 205 now. I have my doubts about 215.

On Collins, maybe not too small but in the old regim we were heading big on the offensive line, preferably 320 plus. I expect that to continue. I thought Collins was about 305, but reports say 310 so maybe. Still do not see the value.

Pass-happy Mike Murlarkey and QB 'guru' Brian Billick are being looked at. It looks like it will be Murlarkey, which is horrible.

DLionALL
01-23-2008, 09:26 PM
Porter was a thought in the 2nd. I didn't lean that way.

The reason I didn't lean Cason was more of a speed issue.

True, all depends on the combine. Still like the pick.

thebow305
01-23-2008, 09:31 PM
I would be outright furious if we passed on Antoine Cason for a "developmental" prospect such as Oniel Cousins. We have way too many of those guys, such as Joe Toledo, Anthony Alabi, and Drew Mormino. Our secondary has been downright awful and our corners have been the main reason. we haven't had a solid number 1 since we traded Pat Surtain away a couple years ago. I think Cason is the safest CB prospect in this draft and the most finished product out of all of them and is also the Thorpe award winner. That way we could take Quentin Groves in the 3rd instead of Justin King.

That would be an almost perfect draft. I would prefer Gholston at number 1 as you may know already but I can settle for Groves in the 3rd as a pass rusher, with Chris Long being a great player as well. If our draft happened in the way I mentioned I would be very happy.

XxXdragonXxX
01-23-2008, 09:45 PM
For the Seahawks, I would love to get Mendenhall. Martellus Bennett is a good pick in the 2nd. However I don't see the Seahawks taking a DB unless Trufant leaves (which he won't)....and I really don't want another undersized guy like Hefney back there. Probably the Seahawks biggest need is at guard, and with Roy Schuening still on the board, I don't know how you could pass him up...I don't know if I'd pass him up in the 2nd.

G-Men88
01-23-2008, 09:52 PM
If Reggie Smith is on the board When the Giants pick he will be the pick.

bored of education
01-23-2008, 09:59 PM
Thomas is solid number 3. I would rather have Flowers or Hefney. But I like Dorsey and Nicks. Nicks to me isa better RT fit unless he develops and can harness his energy and focus on the game. McIntosh healty will be ok at LT or they may switch. After this round I would like Josh Johnson, Crable or Mike Mcglynn

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 10:00 PM
Fast. Kick returner. Quick. Hands. Questions on carrying the load.

You are underestimating Norwoods inside running in vision. Both are excellent, especially his cutback ability and vision. The problem is durability. Norwood packs more of a punch than Felix Jones on contact, I assure you that.

Felix Jones was 197 out of highschool. He is 205 now. I have my doubts about 215.

On Collins, maybe not too small but in the old regim we were heading big on the offensive line, preferably 320 plus. I expect that to continue. I thought Collins was about 305, but reports say 310 so maybe. Still do not see the value.

Pass-happy Mike Murlarkey and QB 'guru' Brian Billick are being looked at. It looks like it will be Murlarkey, which is horrible.

i'm not underestimating norwood's inside running. what i'm saying is that i think jones is better. admittedly, i haven't studied norwood since he got to the pros, but i remember his collegiate days. that said, we could go back and forth on this, sowe'll just leave it at that.

as for mularkey, i think that's actually something you would prefer. for all his pass happiness, he's a power run oriented guy. it's just he dials up some "trick" plays now and again.

george_allen
01-23-2008, 10:02 PM
2. St. Louis Rams – OT Jake Long, Michigan

OT or RB (need issue) or DE (value issue) here? Ugh. A lot of people pushing Dorsey or Ellis here, which is a tempting thought, but does that really improve their pass rush by sliding Carriker out to end? Jake can start at guard, giving them a more physical look, and move to tackle in a year or two (whenever Pace calls it quits or Barron’s contract situation).

what keeps gholston from being enough value here?





34. St. Louis Rams – WR James Hardy, Indiana

Could big workout numbers get them to pull the trigger here on say, Quentin Groves? Lawrence Jackson as a DE thought is another option. I can’t help but wonder if the WR value is too good. There’s guys with size, something Linehan might desire. Waiting on the 40’s.

i like hardy here, in this situation, from both value and need perspectives.
out of curiosity though, would carl nicks be the pick here if jake long wasn't the pick in round 1?




60. St. Louis Rams f/ Indianapolis – DE Chris Ellis, Virginia Tech

Finally pull the trigger on a deal. Indianapolis could certainly be open to adding assets. St. Louis could find Chris Ellis quite tempting. Sure, some character concerns, but worth the risk here.


given the abundance of roster holes the rams have and the possibility that ellis maybe there at 65 anyway, i don't like this trade. it smacks of the "slick" front office taking advantage of the "challenged" front office. but this is the nfl and i suppose the ill prepared are taken advantage of all the time.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 10:07 PM
For the Seahawks, I would love to get Mendenhall. Martellus Bennett is a good pick in the 2nd. However I don't see the Seahawks taking a DB unless Trufant leaves (which he won't)....and I really don't want another undersized guy like Hefney back there. Probably the Seahawks biggest need is at guard, and with Roy Schuening still on the board, I don't know how you could pass him up...I don't know if I'd pass him up in the 2nd.

i can see schuening in the 3rd. 2nd, not so sure. he reminds me of buenning somewhat in that, you know he can be solid ... but can be better than solid? i think when you draft og's early (1st 2 rounds) you are hoping for way better than a solid starter.

just my take. i'm sure others feel differently.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 10:08 PM
If Reggie Smith is on the board When the Giants pick he will be the pick.

i can buy that they look. sure, he'd be a solid safety look for them.

BamaFalcon59
01-23-2008, 10:13 PM
i'm not underestimating norwood's inside running. what i'm saying is that i think jones is better. admittedly, i haven't studied norwood since he got to the pros, but i remember his collegiate days. that said, we could go back and forth on this, sowe'll just leave it at that.

as for mularkey, i think that's actually something you would prefer. for all his pass happiness, he's a power run oriented guy. it's just he dials up some "trick" plays now and again.

Production.

Offenses under Mularkey:

3, 5, 22, 25, 28, 20

Not encouraging.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 10:15 PM
what keeps gholston from being enough value here?

i like hardy here, in this situation, from both value and need perspectives.
out of curiosity though, would carl nicks be the pick here if jake long wasn't the pick in round 1?

given the abundance of roster holes the rams have and the possibility that ellis maybe there at 65 anyway, i don't like this trade. it smacks of the "slick" front office taking advantage of the "challenged" front office. but this is the nfl and i suppose the ill prepared are taken advantage of all the time.

i think we had a discussion in the last mock i did on the rams. not sure if it was you or someone else. let me start with i don't want to make that ol pick. i just don't see the point. let me also add that, teams should take who they feel is a fit if the value is closer. i think gholston and harvey are both 6-10ish grades, more an issue with consistency, skill fit, and a host of tiny reasons, but more because, despite a weak draft at the top, there are about 5 or more guys that are better talents than them in general. that said, i wouldn't think less of them if they went a de there. i'm a big believe in drafting what you feel is your need, even if it's a slight reach (as long as it's not a huge reach). that said, the ol issues this past year, plus the contract/career status of barron (2 years) and pace (aging) led me to go jake long for now.

um, sure, nicks would be a consideration if they passed on ol earlier. althouhg ... i have to wonder if they wouldn't just fill other needs and wait to add an og later.

as for ellis ... i don't think it's as bad as you are making it sound. it definitely fills a big void for a young pass rusher. they can't address all their needs at once, and adding value is arguably important. that said, sure, i could see a bunch of other possibilities.

etk
01-23-2008, 10:18 PM
Buccaneers - Starting backwards. Flacco or Josh Johnson. That was a tough call. Thing is, I don't think any QB would be depended on anytime soon. Flacco offers the big arm that Gruden has desired and he has the time now to develop Flacco. Beyond the fact, on my board, it was a big steal. As necessary as corner is, I'm not sure if CB is worth it in the 2nd. Solid corners, particularly for the defense, will be there in the 4th and on. I was more inclined to think WR ahead of CB. As for DE or DT ... I just was thinking that IF Sims is worth it there (and Campbell is no certainty to be worth it there either), he would potentially help the run defense and add a top young interior piece, and that, with Adams, you can wait to find a strongside end later on (Gilberry/Jones still being on the board entering the 4th).



These are all very reasonable points. I think the picks can all be justified fairly well but they are not my optimum choices. We have about 2 years to develop Flacco if we draft him. That's a decent amount of time, but he would need more. He's very raw from a footwork standpoint and needs to fine tune his mechanics. A big-arm QB would be a nice luxury but we don't throw deep enough (at the moment, I hope that changes) to justify Flacco over Johnson. I like Johnson's accuracy, pocket presence, mobility and touch, all of which are probably more important than arm strength in our offense. He needs time to develop in any offense, but he would have a quick road to success playing for Gruden because of his WCO experience.

I agree on everything you said about CBs, but Flowers is the exception to that "rule". He's too much of a talent for us to pass up, even if we are assured of solid talent later on. From a value standpoint, I'd take Flowers and a 4th round receiver over the reverse option. I just love him as a prospect.

I really like the idea of Gilberry & Sims. I'd be extremely happy with those 2 selections. With that being said, LDE is a bigger need than NT right now, and I believe Campbell is a much better talent than Sims, so that solidifies the pick for me.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 10:18 PM
Production.

Offenses under Mularkey:

3, 5, 22, 25, 28, 20

Not encouraging.

that may be more an issue of personnel and the qb problems (i'm not sure what years correlate with what and i apologize, but it's a tad late in the day for me to go look it up right now). for the most part, i didn't think his scheming was all that bad but the personnel wasn't really there in buffalo/miami (don't remember his pitt days)

XxXdragonXxX
01-23-2008, 10:19 PM
i can see schuening in the 3rd. 2nd, not so sure. he reminds me of buenning somewhat in that, you know he can be solid ... but can be better than solid? i think when you draft og's early (1st 2 rounds) you are hoping for way better than a solid starter.

just my take. i'm sure others feel differently.

I just don't think he will get past the beggining of round 3. He would most likely start from day 1 in Seattle, he may never be anything more than a solid starter, but there is an immediate need at OG and I don't know if you can risk letting him slip away hoping he falls to the 3rd round. Maybe a trade down to the beggining of the 3rd would be an option. I think he gives you the best guarantee at guard that you will be getting a good player.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 10:21 PM
i tend to have a few og's equal to him (radovich/felton come to mind, too lazy to think right now, sorry) and albert ahead of him. but sure, we're somewhat going back and forth. i can buy him in the 3rd.

TimD
01-23-2008, 10:26 PM
Great Jets draft. Interesting, and that's what I like to see. Everyone has the same stupid DL, OL, OLB for the first 3 rounds. I like how you mixed it up.

Bobo
01-23-2008, 10:29 PM
Give the Titans Wallace Gillberry in the 3rd and I think I'd proclaim this the best first 3 rounds in Titans history :D

I guess Davis's lack of height could push him down to pick #55.

george_allen
01-23-2008, 10:35 PM
i think we had a discussion in the last mock i did on the rams. not sure if it was you or someone else. let me start with i don't want to make that ol pick. i just don't see the point.

that's cool and i'm with you on that which is why i check out your mocks. i was just looking for your current opinion on where gholston stands as i didn't recall having a recent conversation with you on that.



let me also add that, teams should take who they feel is a fit if the value is closer. i think gholston and harvey are both 6-10ish grades, more an issue with consistency, skill fit, and a host of tiny reasons, but more because, despite a weak draft at the top, there are about 5 or more guys that are better talents than them in general. that said, i wouldn't think less of them if they went a de there. i'm a big believe in drafting what you feel is your need, even if it's a slight reach (as long as it's not a huge reach).
thanks. that's what i was looking for on gholston. i would be interested to see more of your thoughts on the "host of tiny reasons" regarding gholston.



as for ellis ... i don't think it's as bad as you are making it sound.
i'm just down on the rams front office right now, i like ellis. how extensive are his character concerns though????

Shiver
01-23-2008, 10:43 PM
I, unlike most of my peers, do not mind the Matt Ryan pick. That being said I really do not like the trade up for Felix Jones. He is probably a better version of Jerious Norwood, but I still think that the Falcons will look for a bigger back.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 11:01 PM
Give the Titans Wallace Gillberry in the 3rd and I think I'd proclaim this the best first 3 rounds in Titans history :D

I guess Davis's lack of height could push him down to pick #55.

i could see gilberry instead of thompson there. i like gilberry better (so he's got poor 40 times ... he's a player).

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 11:02 PM
Great Jets draft. Interesting, and that's what I like to see. Everyone has the same stupid DL, OL, OLB for the first 3 rounds. I like how you mixed it up.

certainly mixed reactions from jets fans, which i fully expected.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 11:11 PM
i'm just down on the rams front office right now, i like ellis. how extensive are his character concerns though????

on gholston - one small reason why i'm not "top 5" huge on gholston board wise is that i don't think he's the most fluid player out there, which might be stating the obvious because of his physique. but it is a concern, at least, imo.

as for ellis, the character issues shouldn't be that bad. although ... beamer's run a loose ship there, so who knows, but it seems unlikely it's anything that bad. but with the rams situation, i think thy have to be wary on anything as it's a critical year.

and yeah, your fo organizaiton blows, nothing personal. zygmunt running the whole thing basically right (granted, oversimplification).

bearsfan_51
01-23-2008, 11:26 PM
I think you're devaluing the quarterbacks a bit too much. Not necessarily any one player in particular, as I agree it's pretty fluid past Ryan, I just find it hard to believe there will only be one quarterback taken in the first 25 picks, and three in the first 80. The law of probabilty suggests that more teams will bite earlier, as they usually tend to do at that position.

toonsterwu
01-23-2008, 11:42 PM
the problem is ... who bites? once it gets past us in the first ... it gets wide open. there's tampa at 20 ... but do they grab a qb of the future in the 1st when they can fill more immediate needs? so that means before us. i have a hard time seeing a 2nd qb be of value in the top 10, and thus, i have a hard time going baltimore and qb unless ryan is there. newsome's past history has shown that he's willing to wait on qb as well. i think i saw you say somewhere that you thought kc. it's possible, but i've got a hard time buying that in the top 5. they still like croyle and have bigger needs. i can't see carolina more because it seems like a win now mode there to stave off a potential cowher hiring in a year if things go sour. it's possible though.

the other option becomes is there a team that will go "cutler". draft a qb because they want to add a star youngster with the idea of the kid replacing an aging guy or a team with a changing offense/coordinator/hc that could necessitate a different direction. detroit comes to mind. that said, it's hard for me to see them not give stanton a chance and even millen has to be on the hot seat at some point. perhaps seattle as a qb of the future nod ... but even they seem to be in a win now mode which makes qb unlikely, imo.

the qb issue i had with my mock was the palcement of henne. i wanted to get him in the late 2nd/early 3rd, but couldn't, although that's because i was somewhat speeidng through it at that point.

anything's possible, and as always, only time will tell.

TacticaLion
01-23-2008, 11:45 PM
Kinda interested as to why the Lions didn't have a trade in this mock. Millen loves trading and Roy Williams/Shaun Rogers are on the block.

Turtlepower
01-24-2008, 12:05 AM
As far as the Giants go, I really like the picks. I was thinking I would prefer Patrick Lee, but from as far as I can tell, he is not nearly as fast of a corner as I was hoping. Anyway, good mock as always and I love the Sam Baker pick. He is getting the Brady Quinn/Matt Leinart treatment for people exaggerating him.

Caddy
01-24-2008, 01:39 AM
Probably my least favourite Buc's draft of the season. The first round pick I could see, but I don't like a RB that early and I just personally don't like Flacco any better than the other 5 or 6 tier 2 QBs.

Don Killuminati
01-24-2008, 05:22 AM
Is 2 DL guys necessary?Absolutely. Unless you feel like Jay Richardson is a starting caliber RE, or that Terdell Sands was only pretending to suck ass this past season.

Hurtful to see Rubin go one spot ahead of us. He'd be the perfect guy to line up between Ellis and Burgess.

Might have gone Chris Johnson over Jackson. Homerun potential as a RB. Deep speed as a WR. Kiffin's new Reggie? Not on the same level, obviously. But the versatility and speed are very comparable. He also passes the Al Davis stopwatch test with flying colors. Ice that cake with the obscene value that top flight return guys have post-Hester and you have a seriously intriguing pick here.

toonsterwu
01-24-2008, 06:31 AM
Kinda interested as to why the Lions didn't have a trade in this mock. Millen loves trading and Roy Williams/Shaun Rogers are on the block.

as noted earlier, i didn't do pure veteran deals (deals where the veteran being mvoed was the focus of the trade). just didn't feel like it this time around. certainly i expect them to make some moves and i've tossed around some ideas in my mind on both roy and shaun.

toonsterwu
01-24-2008, 06:32 AM
As far as the Giants go, I really like the picks. I was thinking I would prefer Patrick Lee, but from as far as I can tell, he is not nearly as fast of a corner as I was hoping. Anyway, good mock as always and I love the Sam Baker pick. He is getting the Brady Quinn/Matt Leinart treatment for people exaggerating him.

what do you think about going safety instead of linebacker in the 3rd, as huge suggested?

toonsterwu
01-24-2008, 06:33 AM
Probably my least favourite Buc's draft of the season. The first round pick I could see, but I don't like a RB that early and I just personally don't like Flacco any better than the other 5 or 6 tier 2 QBs.

just wondering who you would rather see based on who was left with the 2nd rounder? cb? i'm just not sure i buy that. maybe wr.

toonsterwu
01-24-2008, 06:40 AM
Absolutely. Unless you feel like Jay Richardson is a starting caliber RE, or that Terdell Sands was only pretending to suck ass this past season.

Hurtful to see Rubin go one spot ahead of us. He'd be the perfect guy to line up between Ellis and Burgess.

Might have gone Chris Johnson over Jackson. Homerun potential as a RB. Deep speed as a WR. Kiffin's new Reggie? Not on the same level, obviously. But the versatility and speed are very comparable. He also passes the Al Davis stopwatch test with flying colors. Ice that cake with the obscene value that top flight return guys have post-Hester and you have a seriously intriguing pick here.

while i don't think either richardson or sands are starting caliber players, i also do think that, consideirng the multiple needs, whether or not 2 dl are worth it when a solid de can likely be found in the 4th. i have a hard time seeing back to back dt's, particularly an ellis/rubin combo, on the inside for a 4-3. certainly possible, i just have a hard time seeing it, as i think a dl with kelly/ellis/rubin/burgess would leave one wishing for a better base pass rush.

johnson does make a lot of sense depending on fa moves. he could potentially really excel in that offense.

Turtlepower
01-24-2008, 07:55 AM
what do you think about going safety instead of linebacker in the 3rd, as huge suggested?

I would love it, but I really think the value indicates we should go LB. There really isn't much value for the 3rd Round safeties at that point.

Patriots16-0
01-24-2008, 09:40 AM
17. New England f/ Minnesota – WR Desean Jackson, California
64. New England – ILB Curtis Lofton, Oklahoma
Trading our 3rd rounder?

http://atdpweb.berkeley.edu/brokenlogic/images/nowai.jpg

toonsterwu
01-24-2008, 09:44 AM
17. New England f/ Minnesota – WR Desean Jackson, California
64. New England – ILB Curtis Lofton, Oklahoma
Trading our 3rd rounder?

http://atdpweb.berkeley.edu/brokenlogic/images/nowai.jpg

huh? the mock for the patriots was

desean jackson
curtis lofton
ezra butler
trae williams

an additional 4th rounder in 2008
and an additional 3rd/4th rounder in 2009

Wootylicous
01-24-2008, 09:51 AM
I really like the draft for the Pats. Curtis Lofton and Butler will be great addition. Trae Williams seems like our type of corner and desean jackson pairing with Brady will be deadly. :D

Jakey
01-24-2008, 10:01 AM
I cant see the Steelers trading up this year...especially with the depth at OT. What would you have for the Steelers w/o the trade??? Thanks allot.

If it fell like you think i would go...

1: Sam Baker
2: Tracy Porter/Justin King/Brandon Flowers/Antoine Cason
3: Adarius Bowman

toonsterwu
01-24-2008, 10:30 AM
to be honest, i hadn't given much thought to what i would have. i'll give it some thought later in the day. but sam baker at rt next year? i'm not sure that's an appealing option for you guys. i'd probably look for a right tackle in the 2nd round and go with another position in round 1, perhaps wr.

toonsterwu
01-24-2008, 10:30 AM
Some veteran trade ideas for the next mock (drew up a list of names, but obviously, not everyone is getting moved, and Roy might not be moved either. Only trades that I think would involve a top 3 round pick.):

Denver gets Jonathan Vilma
New York Jets get the 43rd overall

I’m thinking 2nd round value for Vilma provided his health checks out with flying colors. Denver’s got a higher pick than Detroit, which was my other thought. Denver has the need, and there’s a relationship with DJ Williams.

Denver gets Shaun Rogers and the 15th overall
Detroit gets the 12th overall and Washington’s 4th rounder that Denver owns

I said this to njx the other day. To me, this feels like a Shanny move. What is a Shanny move? I don’t know how it would be defined. This just feels like it. They certainly could use a DT. This is a positioning move. 3 spots may not seem like much, but it could help position them for a deal. I’m thinking early-mid 3rd round value.

Detroit gets the 24th overall
Tennessee gets Roy Williams

It might end up costing more. But here’s a guy Vince knows and a big play target that’s better than anyone they could get in FA or the draft for at least the 2008-2009 season. Would Reinfeldt consider it? Detroit gets another asset.

I’ll get to thinking about the rest of the names on my list later. Anyone have any names they think I should consider?

Jay
01-24-2008, 11:03 AM
I really like the draft for the Pats. Curtis Lofton and Butler will be great addition. Trae Williams seems like our type of corner and desean jackson pairing with Brady will be deadly. :D

Yeah, now that I've realized that Butler is a LB I am fine with it. I can think of bigger needs at 17, but Randy Moss isn't getting any younger so it would definitely be important to develop someone to take over when he's gone. Some people questioned the Colts taking Anthony Gonzalez in the first round last year, but where would they have been without him.

So yeah, I am fine with that.

Wyndham
01-24-2008, 11:14 AM
4. Kansas City Chiefs – DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU

I think they are going to face a small dilemma. They need a LT badly. The way things are shaking out, the LT options in round 2 might be iffy projections or iffy fits. Can they afford that route? At the end of the day, for now, I think yes. Dorsey is too good to pass up here, moving McBride to a swing role.

There’s no dilemma. The Chiefs are a bad team with a lack of talent. They’re not going to be a playoff team next season and, in order to build the best team possible, they need to simply add talented players. There’s absolutely no urgency for them to draft an OT; people need to understand this. They are no more likely to draft an OT in round one or two than they are to draft a WR, CB, DT, etc.

If you’re the Steelers and you’re a pretty good team with a weak OL, you try to draft the best tackle on the board. You don’t reach for one, but you hope that the best available tackle is worth the pick. The Chiefs aren’t that team, and they won’t be doing that with a single position.

Dorsey is a great player and a great pick. If Jake Long and Sedrick Ellis are off the board, and they can’t trade down (assuming they even want to), the Chiefs would freakin’ love sending their card in with Glenn Dorsey’s name written on it.

35. Kansas City – OT Carl Nicks, Nebraska

This was the risk in passing on OL earlier. The options look iffy here. I don’t think they can afford to wait anymore, though. I’m looking Collins or Nicks here, and leaning Nicks. Does this address their LT question? Not sold.

Following on from my previous points, the Chiefs wouldn’t reach for a tackle just because it’s a tackle. They’re not going to take a tackle with their fingers crossed simply praying that he becomes a good player. No, instead they’ll draft a good player: Phillip Wheeler, Mario Manningham, Ali Highsmith, etc.

Don’t get me wrong: If the best player available is an OT – great! But they’re not going to just draft an OT for the sake of drafting an OT.

70. Kansas City Chiefs – CB Terrell Thomas, USC

CB or WR? CB value is probably better.

The first pick that’s made with sound logic. CB addresses a position of need and presents good value. Thomas would be a steal here and a great addition to the Chiefs secondary.

aNYtitan
01-24-2008, 01:47 PM
An absolutely great first and second round draft picks for the Titans. Both fill in needs, and both are considered the top WR and TE of their draft class. Don't know much about the third round pick though it does help our depth, however I think DT or OG may be more of a pressing need depending on how Free Agency goes

Turtlepower
01-24-2008, 01:56 PM
I was looking over the entire draft and seeing the lack of SS, I decided to make my own. So, what would you think of having Tavaris Gooden play SS? It is a new position, but he has the speed and the open-field tackling ability to play the position. Plus, I also liked him coming in at over 6'1. So, any chance he could make the transition in the NFL?

etk
01-24-2008, 03:33 PM
I was looking over the entire draft and seeing the lack of SS, I decided to make my own. So, what would you think of having Tavaris Gooden play SS? It is a new position, but he has the speed and the open-field tackling ability to play the position. Plus, I also liked him coming in at over 6'1. So, any chance he could make the transition in the NFL?

Not in a million years. I won't even bother explaining...

asmitty45
01-24-2008, 04:29 PM
really like this one for the lions. Mayo is great in round two and Lowery is very good in 3, but we may need to go OL there

derza222
01-24-2008, 05:57 PM
As far as the mixed skillsets comment a couple of pages back regarding the Jets and Manningham/Kelly, I do agree to an extent. However, a glaring issue with the Jets the past few years is their inability to score in the red zone. Partially due to the playcalling, partially due to the offensive lines, and partially due to the fact that we've been throwing fades to guys 5'10-6'0. Now I understand we don't have a burner and with Clemens' arm a deep threat will be nice, but a red zone guy would be nice as well. Worth considering at least.

Also, last year the Jets decided that the value in the draft was poor later on and moved up twice. If the Jets decide that the value is similar, as you say, in the 11-50 range I'm not sold we'd trade back into that range to only get one pick. Now if we left that top 10 pick and got at least a couple of picks in that range, one in the middle or one at the end or something it could make more sense, but given history I'm not sure we trade back if we only get one pick there in return. Just a thought. I could see us trying to stockpile there but trading and only getting 1 pick there, 2 later, and a to this point relatively unproven veteran is questionable however intriguing it may be. Just a couple thoughts.

toonsterwu
01-24-2008, 06:27 PM
I was looking over the entire draft and seeing the lack of SS, I decided to make my own. So, what would you think of having Tavaris Gooden play SS? It is a new position, but he has the speed and the open-field tackling ability to play the position. Plus, I also liked him coming in at over 6'1. So, any chance he could make the transition in the NFL?

i think he's too stiff to play safety, even strong safety.

Turtlepower
01-24-2008, 07:10 PM
i think he's too stiff to play safety, even strong safety.

You're probably right. I've just been looking for a guy that the Giants could take a flyer on probably in the second day that could transition to safety. I really don't think that there is even one SS that really stands out in this class who I would think is an upgrade over our secondary right now. I was trying to look at CBs who could possibly play SS and the only one I can think of is Cason just because he is a pretty good open-field tackler and probably too slow to be a corner in most defensive schemes.

the_Kid
01-24-2008, 08:47 PM
that vikings draft would be ideal

Bobo
01-24-2008, 10:34 PM
i could see gilberry instead of thompson there. i like gilberry better (so he's got poor 40 times ... he's a player).

Exactly. I hope he has poor workouts so he drops to say the 3rd. That type of production in the SEC is just good. And he always looked the best of really any DE I saw a lot this year.

etk
01-24-2008, 10:38 PM
You're probably right. I've just been looking for a guy that the Giants could take a flyer on probably in the second day that could transition to safety. I really don't think that there is even one SS that really stands out in this class who I would think is an upgrade over our secondary right now. I was trying to look at CBs who could possibly play SS and the only one I can think of is Cason just because he is a pretty good open-field tackler and probably too slow to be a corner in most defensive schemes.

Brandon Flowers is 5'10 200 and hits like a linebacker. I think he could play safety, among other things. The only linebacker that I think could be decent at SS is Wesley Woodyard. He's probably the most fluid athletically and in coverage of all the backers.

619
01-24-2008, 10:47 PM
You can never count out the Davis overrule but I believe Kiffin will ultimately play a bigger part in draft discussions this time around. Thus two USC guys in the first day alone is believable.

ErikG803
01-24-2008, 10:55 PM
Give the Seahawks Red Bryant instead of Hefney and it's an absolutely perfect draft for us.

pellepelle_10
01-25-2008, 02:31 AM
toons,

I have to say this Bears draft is quite interesting. My first question is how on earth are u expecting Brohm to drop this far? This would be a dream but this would be wild if he dropped this low. I'm truly loving the 1st selection as I'm pegging us to go Stewart or Mendenhall as top pick. Secondly I'm shocked why you have us selecting S Quintin Demps, UTEP when guys like Thomas DeCoud, Tyrell Johnson, and Marcus Griffin still available. Let me know what u think of a draft scenario like this?

Bears:

Rnd1: Jonathan Stewart RB - Oregon
Rnd2: Heath Benedict OT - Newberry or Chris Williams if he drops.
Rnd3: Joe Flacco QB - Deleware
Rnd3: Thomas DeCoud SS - California, Tyrell Johnson SS - Arkansas State , or Marcus Griffin SS - Texas

Don Killuminati
01-25-2008, 05:58 AM
while i don't think either richardson or sands are starting caliber players, i also do think that, consideirng the multiple needs, whether or not 2 dl are worth it when a solid de can likely be found in the 4th. i have a hard time seeing back to back dt's, particularly an ellis/rubin combo, on the inside for a 4-3. certainly possible, i just have a hard time seeing it, as i think a dl with kelly/ellis/rubin/burgess would leave one wishing for a better base pass rush.

The Bears went DT/DT a few years ago and it worked out quite well.

Oakland literally has no one on their D-line worth saving from a burning building other than Burgess, and he's terrible in run defense. So, the more help we can get him, the better.

Kelly is a FA coming off a torn ACL, so I don't even factor him into the equation.

I also don't like Lawrence Jackson as a RE. I don't think he has the skill set to get around many NFL LTs. He's one of the guys I expect to see fall behind several "combine heroes" by April.

As for the pass rush, Burgess from LE, Ellis inside, and (hopefully) a re-signed Chris Clemons as our nickle RE would be a vastly upgraded rush. If Rubin can control the C and RG, Burgess and Ellis could do some real damage.

In any event, the run defense has to be the top priority. The AFCW is probably the most run-heavy division in the league from top to bottom. We have to compete in the division before we can go anywhere.

With our LBs much better in coverage than they are at shedding blocks, throwing them a bone in the form of a legit NT helps the whole team.

I could even see Trevor Laws here if he continues to turn heads.

johnson does make a lot of sense depending on fa moves. he could potentially really excel in that offense.

The "tries to bounce everything outside" tag worries me. But I think he's a guy who could follow the Brian Westbrook model and make his mark early as a return guy/3rd down back/part-time WR. Once he gets the feel for the Cable Cut-Back system, yeah. He could be flat out nutty. Assuming Michael Bush can get back into game form, he and Johnson make for a really intriguing tandem.

TacticaLion
01-25-2008, 12:15 PM
Denver gets Shaun Rogers and the 15th overall
Detroit gets the 12th overall and Washington’s 4th rounder that Denver owns

I said this to njx the other day. To me, this feels like a Shanny move. What is a Shanny move? I don’t know how it would be defined. This just feels like it. They certainly could use a DT. This is a positioning move. 3 spots may not seem like much, but it could help position them for a deal. I’m thinking early-mid 3rd round value.
Sorry... I don't agree with this value at all.

Rogers is a force that constantly demands double-teams and collapses the pocket with regularity. Mid 3rd round value? I just don't see it.

You can't draft a player in the 3rd round that has the impact Rogers has. I thought of a more reasonable trade:

Denver Gives (1410):
12th Pick (1st Round) - 1200
12th Pick (3rd Round) - 210

Detroit Gives (1050):
15th Pick (1st Round) - 1050
Shaun Rogers

1410 (Denver)
-1050 (Detroit)
------
360

This values Rogers as a mid-late 2nd round pick, which is quite reasonable. Denver gives up their 3rd round pick and moves back only 3 spots in the first round... and acquires a top-tier DT. Detroit moves up 3 spots and grabs an additional 3rd round pick at the cost of Rogers.

Knowing the way Millen deals, I don't think he'd accept anything less.

Ewing
01-25-2008, 02:18 PM
Tremendous picks. I'd rather take another wide receiver in the second and then Rucker in the third but it's still awesome.

EDIT: Actually if we went Kelly/Davis/Bowman in the first day I would be ecstatic.

The Legend
01-25-2008, 04:27 PM
Denver Gives (1410):
12th Pick (1st Round) - 1200
12th Pick (3rd Round) - 210

Detroit Gives (1050):
15th Pick (1st Round) - 1050
Shaun Rogers


Shaun Rodgers stock drop tremendesly, when rod said he was going to trade him or cut him, for gods sake at Al Davis could get for Moss was High 4th round pick

i cant see you guys getting more then that, thou he better then a 4th round pick, you should not have told the world you want him out

TacticaLion
01-25-2008, 05:03 PM
Shaun Rodgers stock drop tremendesly, when rod said he was going to trade him or cut him, for gods sake at Al Davis could get for Moss was High 4th round pick

i cant see you guys getting more then that, thou he better then a 4th round pick, you should not have told the world you want him out
Agree completely... they messed up by saying that. But, keep in mind: Marinelli hinted at that, not Millen... and Millen runs the team. He wont just drop Rogers and wont trade him for a 4th.

Rogers and Moss are two very different situations. Moss refused to play and was horribly unproductive, whereas Rogers is still playing dominant football at times. Even if he takes a play off, he's still a 360+ roadblock sitting in the way.

The Broncos giving up a 3rd round pick for Rogers isn't unreasonable at all. Millen wouldn't take less and it's a small price to pay for a dominant DT.

george_allen
01-26-2008, 08:32 AM
on gholston - one small reason why i'm not "top 5" huge on gholston board wise is that i don't think he's the most fluid player out there, which might be stating the obvious because of his physique. but it is a concern, at least, imo.
even though he dropped into coverage for the buckeyes, played some linebacker, you don't see him pulling that off to a lesser extent at the next level?

as for ellis, the character issues shouldn't be that bad. although ... beamer's run a loose ship there, so who knows, but it seems unlikely it's anything that bad. but with the rams situation, i think thy have to be wary on anything as it's a critical year.
yeah. linehan's not strong enough to override any soft spots in a prospects character and there's no ray lewis type locker room presence on the rams so, yeah, they should avoid that stuff.

and yeah, your fo organizaiton blows, nothing personal. zygmunt running the whole thing basically right (granted, oversimplification). no offense taken toonster, i readily admit they blow. in fact, since you brought up zymunt, let me throw it out there that whoever the rams do select at #2 - the odds are high that he'll be one of the longest, if not the longest signing hold-out come the beginning of the 2008 season with zygmunt doing the deal. and while i don't like your 3rd round trade up scenario, i could see linehan going for it there or round two and taking a wr and over-paying out of desparation . . .

darnik44two
01-26-2008, 08:49 AM
Gosder Cherilus isn't the type of OL the Steelers have been know to draft. The Steelers were one of the teams to start the trend of having versatile offensive linemen. Cherilus right now looks like a RT and RT only. The Steelers need help at RT for sure (Willie Colon is more of a OG IMO) so I'm sure Cherilus will get some long hard looks from the Steelers. I'm starting to feel fairly certain the pick will be either Sam Baker or Chris Williams. I had been leaning for Baker to be the pick, but I'm now thinking more along the lines of Chris Williams. Baker is a bit more versatile, but Williams will probably be a better LT in the future. I think both could kick inside and play guard if need be (Baker for sure). What the Steelers are going to be faced with are questions at RT, LG, and C. On top of that RG Kendall Simmons might be the center next year. Basically they are going to have to take 5 guys and make a mix matched offensive line, so versatility will be a must. Because depth will be an issue, versatility will be needed in the event someone goes down. I like how you had the Steelers giving up a pick, and then later gaining it back. That's exactly how they do it.

Possible 2008 week 1 starting offensive line.

LT - Marvel Smith
LG - Chris Kemoeatu
C - Kendall Simmons
RG - Willie Colon
RT - Chris Williams

2007 week 1 offensive line

LT - Marvel Smith
LG - Alan Faneca
C - Sean Mahan
RG - Kendall Simmons
RT - Willie Colon

ripdw27
01-26-2008, 11:37 PM
good denver picks, i would prefer otah in the first tho... idk there is just something i like about it him over williams right there