PDA

View Full Version : Secondary for 08


ESimsfan87
02-01-2008, 03:18 PM
Okay so i think we all know that our secondary should have some form of a Gerald Alexander and Dan Bullocks safety look but last time I checked they both played free safety. Do you think Kenoy Kennedy comes back? And what about the clusterf**k at Cornerback? is this where we go at 15 overall?

WMD
02-01-2008, 03:22 PM
Okay so i think we all know that our secondary should have some form of a Gerald Alexander and Dan Bullocks safety look but last time I checked they both played free safety. Do you think Kenoy Kennedy comes back? And what about the clusterf**k at Cornerback? is this where we go at 15 overall?

In the Tampa 2 Defense, you don't really have a FS and SS.. You pretty much just have two safeties; each one covering their half of the field. We don't need Kenoy to come back.. Bullocks and Alexander should take the safety spots.

Brothgar
02-01-2008, 03:32 PM
I am listening to Valenti and Foster today and they say we could get pacman jones for a 5th rounder This allows us to go OT or ILB in round 1 and CB later in the draft. Any thoughts?

ESimsfan87
02-01-2008, 03:43 PM
I really don't think the depth is there for a ILB in round 1 let alone at 15 overall. I was just looking at the rankings and Scott definitely made ILB really interesting... Connor and Wheeler ahead of Lofton and Mayo... We can get those guys in round 2 if need be. Pac Man would be interesting but believe me, if we didn't make a run at Tank Johnson, there's no way we go after Pac Man. Blame Marinelli...

WMD
02-01-2008, 03:45 PM
No to Pac Man.. He isn't a Cover 2 fit at all.

ESimsfan87
02-01-2008, 04:07 PM
So if you had to choose a CB at 15 and couldn't pick another position who are you picking? For me, I have a hard time picking amongst the players because I have hardly seen any of them on tv. Really only Mike Jenkins and Trae Williams from South Florida were on tv more than twice. I couldn't really get a read on Talib from KU. DRC looked kinda good during the Senior Bowl but obviously that's only one game and I never saw McKelvin play. Thoughts?

WMD
02-01-2008, 04:11 PM
I'd take Aqib Talib at 15 if we had to pick a CB.

Brothgar
02-01-2008, 04:13 PM
I'd take Aqib Talib at 15 if we had to pick a CB.

ditto woot

WMD
02-01-2008, 04:15 PM
ditto woot

Kiss me, you fool.

detroit4life
02-01-2008, 05:28 PM
i want to take cason in round 2 or 3 depending on where his stock ends up he fits our defense and is good value if he falls into the second or third.

TacticaLion
02-01-2008, 06:14 PM
ESims: Just so you know, Jenkins is a horrible fit for the team. He isn't good in run support and has character issues. Marinelli will not draft him. The best 1st round CB is Talib (as stated above).

I really don't think the depth is there for a ILB in round 1 let alone at 15 overall.If you're going off Scott's rankings, he disagrees with you.

Scott has Connor at 21 in his Top 100. If we're sitting at 15 and the coaches want a MLB, he's the one to take. I wont post his Strengths and Weaknesses again, but he's a perfect fit.

ESimsfan87
02-01-2008, 06:25 PM
: Just so you know, Jenkins is a horrible fit for the team. He isn't good in run support and has character issues. Marinelli will not draft him. The best 1st round CB is Talib (as stated above)

I wasn't saying I wanted Jenkins or Williams for that matter at 15 but just saying outside of Scott's scouting reports and a few games on tv that duo was the only I saw outside of Talib on tv because of all their small school status. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

TacticaLion
02-01-2008, 06:26 PM
I wasn't saying I wanted Jenkins or Williams for that matter at 15 but just saying outside of Scott's scouting reports and a few games on tv that duo was the only I saw outside of Talib on tv because of all their small school status. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

Oh... my bad for the misunderstanding.

I keep hearing Jenkins to Detroit at 15 (Scott's newest mock, to name one), and it drives me crazy. I guess that, whenever I see "Jenkins" and "15", I feel the need to say something.

bearsfan_51
02-01-2008, 07:52 PM
In the Tampa 2 Defense, you don't really have a FS and SS.. You pretty much just have two safeties; each one covering their half of the field. We don't need Kenoy to come back.. Bullocks and Alexander should take the safety spots.
That's not really true. First of all you're assuming that the Tampa 2 is going to run an exclusively cover 2 set, which isn't the case. Also, even in the Cover 2 split, the strong safety still plays closer to the line and has more run-stop responsbilities at the snap.

I like Alexander at FS. Not crazy about Bullocks at SS but it could work assuming you get a little thicker up the middle (especially if you trade Rogers).

detroitsports
02-01-2008, 07:53 PM
"Okay so i think we all know that our secondary should have some form of a Gerald Alexander and Dan Bullocks safety look but last time I checked they both played free safety."


yeah, that won't be an issue with this defense, and I'm pretty sure we drafted Bullocks to play SS anyway. We just also had Kennedy at the time

TacticaLion
02-01-2008, 08:16 PM
Yeah... I think Bullocks is at least better than Kennedy. Alexander/Bullocks will be a solid safety group.

Xiomera
02-01-2008, 09:51 PM
Kennedy should return, IMO. Yes, Alexander and Bullocks should be our starting tandem for the future, but Kennedy is probably still better than both of them. We could rotate those three guys at both spots this year.

And to whoever suggested trading for PacMan, it would never happen. PacMan won't be re-instated this year anyways it would appear.

TacticaLion
02-01-2008, 10:37 PM
Kennedy should return, IMO. Yes, Alexander and Bullocks should be our starting tandem for the future, but Kennedy is probably still better than both of them. We could rotate those three guys at both spots this year.

And to whoever suggested trading for PacMan, it would never happen. PacMan won't be re-instated this year anyways it would appear.

Wow. I think we should keep Kennedy, of course, but I don't think he's better than either Alexander or Bullocks.

WMD
02-02-2008, 04:55 AM
Wow. I think we should keep Kennedy, of course, but I don't think he's better than either Alexander or Bullocks.

Let's just keep Kenoy away from Adrian Peterson...

WMD
02-02-2008, 04:56 AM
That's not really true. First of all you're assuming that the Tampa 2 is going to run an exclusively cover 2 set, which isn't the case. Also, even in the Cover 2 split, the strong safety still plays closer to the line and has more run-stop responsbilities at the snap.

That's what I get for trying to sound smart.

Xiomera
02-02-2008, 08:08 AM
Wow. I think we should keep Kennedy, of course, but I don't think he's better than either Alexander or Bullocks.

Bullocks is coming off a major injury. I think people are projecting his ability too much. He didn't have a stand-out rookie campaign. He was decent and showed flashes of potential.

We need Kennedy around another year. It's not like cutting him would lead to an effective use of extra cap space . . . this is Millen we're talking here . . .

WMD
02-02-2008, 08:29 AM
What about drafting Kenny Phillips if he's there at 15, and then moving Gerald Alexander to Cornerback? Eh? How about that? Eh?

TacticaLion
02-02-2008, 11:40 AM
What about drafting Kenny Phillips if he's there at 15, and then moving Gerald Alexander to Cornerback? Eh? How about that? Eh?I'd rather keep Alexander at S. I liked the way he played and would hate to move him around. Keep him there.

Bullocks is coming off a major injury. I think people are projecting his ability too much. He didn't have a stand-out rookie campaign. He was decent and showed flashes of potential.I think he came into last year with a lot of confidence. He had a year under his belt and understood the system. I remember the hit he put on 85 in preseason... nailed him.

I'll have to see how he recovered to question the position. If he isn't ready, it'll have to be Kennedy... and, if he is, I think he'll keep the job.

We need Kennedy around another year. It's not like cutting him would lead to an effective use of extra cap space . . . this is Millen we're talking here . . .I agree that we need to keep Kennedy around. At worst, he's depth and knows the position well. The way injuries work, I'd rather have to throw him in than a rookie (unless Blue is on the roster).

casskid
02-02-2008, 01:41 PM
IF pacman is reinstated and we could get him for a 5th i would say do it. Sure he doesnt fit the system, but hes a proven NFL talent. Cant really say that for the rest of CB's.

And I am aware that he is proven head case as well, but a 5th round pick isnt a whole lot and its not like we get alot of production from later rounds anyway.

wingboy2999
02-02-2008, 03:18 PM
No to Pac Man.. He isn't a Cover 2 fit at all.

I don't care. He is a playmaker and if we could get him for a 5th... do it. Drew Sharp wrote an article about this as well. He'd also make our return games so much better.

wingboy2999
02-02-2008, 03:20 PM
What about our boy Greg Blue?

detroit4life
02-02-2008, 03:23 PM
yea id trade a 5th for him y not? we're going to cut our 5th round choice anyways since u know millen wont take a quality player that late

wingboy2999
02-02-2008, 03:57 PM
That's the point Drew Sharp made.

TacticaLion
02-02-2008, 05:14 PM
No... absolutely not.

This is something I typed about the Pacman situation:
Why not? One reason - the image of the team.

On August 14th, 2007, Commissioner Goodell visited the Lions' training camp. A few of the topics during the visit? Personal conduct and decision making.

Goodell has placed a high amount of importance in the league's personal conduct policy, making sure to touch on that policy with each group of players he visits. This morning while at the Lions' team meeting, Goodell took notice of the Lions' personal conduct policy - Marinelli's 'do right' list.

"I sense it in this building," said Goodell. "It's very clear with Coach Marinelli - one of the things he has is the 'do right' list. He started the meeting off this morning on the 'do right' list and the players sit-up and they pay attention to that. There actually was a round of applause because it's a blank sheet. That's a great thing."


Goodell touched on the league's personal conduct policy with every team in the NFL, yet only 4 teams finished the season incident free. The Lions are one of 4 teams. In the new "Goodell NFL", that says a lot about the responsibility of the players and discipline of the franchise.

The Lions may have disappointed this year, dropping 7 of their last 8, but they finished the season achieving something most other teams couldn't seem to achieve. Losing is a part of the game, but staying out of trouble is a choice.

Marinelli believes that character is one of the most important qualities in a player, and it shows. I'd rather Millen and Marinelli use that 5th round draft pick on a "Marinelli-guy"... a hard working, high motor player with a love for the game of football... than waste it on Pacman. That 5th round pick might not make the team, but, if he does, he wont be a concern off the field.

Bootland27
02-02-2008, 05:15 PM
I don't care. He is a playmaker and if we could get him for a 5th... do it. Drew Sharp wrote an article about this as well. He'd also make our return games so much better.

From Last week:
FREE PRESS RECRUITING SPECIAL: DREW SHARP: Michigan landing super recruit Terrelle Pryor would be an overrated victory (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080127/COL08/801270649/&imw=Y)

From Jan 12:
RICH RODRIGUEZ ON THE JOB: DREW SHARP: Michigan coach must beat Ohio State to nation's No. 1 recruit Terrelle Pryor (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080112/COL08/801120313/1089)

He has contradicted himself on many occasions other than this. They don't call him evil Drew for nothin.

As for Pac Man, I'd wouldn't touch him with 10 foot pole.

asmitty45
02-04-2008, 02:40 PM
From Last week:
FREE PRESS RECRUITING SPECIAL: DREW SHARP: Michigan landing super recruit Terrelle Pryor would be an overrated victory (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080127/COL08/801270649/&imw=Y)

From Jan 12:
RICH RODRIGUEZ ON THE JOB: DREW SHARP: Michigan coach must beat Ohio State to nation's No. 1 recruit Terrelle Pryor (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080112/COL08/801120313/1089)

He has contradicted himself on many occasions other than this. They don't call him evil Drew for nothin.

As for Pac Man, I'd wouldn't touch him with 10 foot pole.

He's going to OSU so it wont matter anyways.

asmitty45
02-04-2008, 02:42 PM
I would absolutely trade a 5th for Pac-Man, if nothing else we get a stud return man but in reality we'd be getting a CB better than any we could draft at 15 or sign in FA (minus Asante).

I dont think itll happen because Marinelli is molding a franchise of guys he likes and who follow what he preaches, unless Pac becomes on of those guys who sees the light and will do anything for a ring, i dont see us making a move for him.

Addict
02-05-2008, 07:37 AM
I would absolutely trade a 5th for Pac-Man, if nothing else we get a stud return man but in reality we'd be getting a CB better than any we could draft at 15 or sign in FA (minus Asante).

I dont think itll happen because Marinelli is molding a franchise of guys he likes and who follow what he preaches, unless Pac becomes on of those guys who sees the light and will do anything for a ring, i dont see us making a move for him.

the only thing you'd get is a guy who gets suspended (AGAIN) faster than the road runner runs. I don't care how much of a playmaker he is, he's a team cancer, and that's the last thing we need right now.

Iamcanadian
02-05-2008, 10:43 AM
Okay so i think we all know that our secondary should have some form of a Gerald Alexander and Dan Bullocks safety look but last time I checked they both played free safety. Do you think Kenoy Kennedy comes back? And what about the clusterf**k at Cornerback? is this where we go at 15 overall?

In a Cover 2 defense Safeties each cover one half of the field and the differential between a FS and SS kinda loses its meaning. In our system, you often see 2 SS since we play a zone 98% of the time and the Safeties are practically never asked to cover anybody one on one.
If Millen has a brain that functions which I sometimes doubt, we won't take a CB in round 1. In a Cover 2, the Safeties are far more valued than the CB's. Remember, we play a zone defense practically 98% of the time and don't need CB's with shutdown abilities. These kind of CB's can be found in rounds 2-7 and that is where almost all Cover 2 CB's are drafted.
Our secondary can be improved simply by drafting a DE who is an excellent pass rusher. Any QB will slice up a zone defense if you don't pressure him no matter who you put back there. To put it simply, the Cover 2 defense stinks unless you have a DL that is capable of a tremendous pass rush. Without that pass rush, you might as well mark down 30 points for your opponents before the game even starts.
As for Kennedy, don't kid yourself, if he's healthy and comes back he'll start at SS and Alexander will move back to be a starting CB.

Addict
02-05-2008, 01:44 PM
In a Cover 2 defense Safeties each cover one half of the field and the differential between a FS and SS kinda loses its meaning. In our system, you often see 2 SS since we play a zone 98% of the time and the Safeties are practically never asked to cover anybody one on one.
If Millen has a brain that functions which I sometimes doubt, we won't take a CB in round 1. In a Cover 2, the Safeties are far more valued than the CB's. Remember, we play a zone defense practically 98% of the time and don't need CB's with shutdown abilities. These kind of CB's can be found in rounds 2-7 and that is where almost all Cover 2 CB's are drafted.
Our secondary can be improved simply by drafting a DE who is an excellent pass rusher. Any QB will slice up a zone defense if you don't pressure him no matter who you put back there. To put it simply, the Cover 2 defense stinks unless you have a DL that is capable of a tremendous pass rush. Without that pass rush, you might as well mark down 30 points for your opponents before the game even starts.
As for Kennedy, don't kid yourself, if he's healthy and comes back he'll start at SS and Alexander will move back to be a starting CB.

No doubt we need a DE, but if a great linebacker falls I'd want that to happen.

TacticaLion
02-05-2008, 03:51 PM
In a Cover 2 defense Safeties each cover one half of the field and the differential between a FS and SS kinda loses its meaning. In our system, you often see 2 SS since we play a zone 98% of the time and the Safeties are practically never asked to cover anybody one on one.
If Millen has a brain that functions which I sometimes doubt, we won't take a CB in round 1. In a Cover 2, the Safeties are far more valued than the CB's. Remember, we play a zone defense practically 98% of the time and don't need CB's with shutdown abilities. These kind of CB's can be found in rounds 2-7 and that is where almost all Cover 2 CB's are drafted.
Our secondary can be improved simply by drafting a DE who is an excellent pass rusher. Any QB will slice up a zone defense if you don't pressure him no matter who you put back there. To put it simply, the Cover 2 defense stinks unless you have a DL that is capable of a tremendous pass rush. Without that pass rush, you might as well mark down 30 points for your opponents before the game even starts.
As for Kennedy, don't kid yourself, if he's healthy and comes back he'll start at SS and Alexander will move back to be a starting CB.
The MLB is a big part of the zone coverage... he's responsible for taking the deep middle. Without that coverage, the safeties have a much bigger piece of the field, preventing them from being in perfect position to make a play.

You keep saying how Cover 2 CBs can be found in later rounds... and I agree with you. But, so can a pure pass-rushing DE. Stop ignoring that fact.