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View Full Version : jnew76 Pre-Combine Skill Position Rankings with explainations


jnew76
02-02-2008, 06:47 PM
I have spent a lot of time on these as I hope will be reflected. These rankings will change as a lot of questions are answered at the combine. Take a look and see what you think. Any and all criticisms are welcome. Rip it to shreds if you like. Here we go...

Positional Rankings

Quarterback

1. Matt Ryan - QB - Boston College - Ryan gets a bit of a bad wrap because he does not have an exceptional arm. That said, Ryan is more than capable of making NFL throws. Running the BC offense is a plus for Ryan because he plays a lot under center and does a great job reading defenses during his drops and understanding defenses from under center. He has great intangibles and has excelled without great talent around him. He is not a complete sitting duck in the pocket and is the best in the draft in terms of pocket awareness and making throws in the face of the rush. Good size and nice release that does not need a lot of polish. Decent but not great footwork. It is hard to find flaws in his game.

2. Chad Henne - QB - Michigan - Good over the top delivery and can make all the throws. He has a bit of a problem with over-striding on occasion that makes his accuracy questionable at times. The ball will sail on him at times due to the overstriding. He will get the footwork issues worked out pretty easily in the NFL. He has taken the snap from center his entire career and has a good understanding of the passing game and making NFL reads. He needs to work through his progressions a little quicker and not be fooled at times. He does not always see the blitz and make the check downs quick enough. He has all the ability that you look for in an NFL signal caller.

3. Brian Brohm - QB - Louisville - Lacks ideal arm strength and I would have liked to see him at the Senior Bowl. It looks to me on tape that he is not as tall as listed and I am thinking he will come in around 6'2" at the combine. Seems to run Hot and Cold at times. He is extremely accurate when running hot and could have an excellent combine if he happens to be hot. He makes good reads most of the time and I like how he keeps his head up and looking down the field. Decent pocket presence and understanding of the passing game. My main question is how much upside he has? Has he already made the most of his talents?

4. Josh Johnson - QB - San Diego - He has the most talent and upside of any QB in this draft. Johnson has excellent accuracy and arm strength. He has some issues with throwing a spiral at times. He has an icy cool demeanor in the pocket and never gets rattled. Tremendous escapability when things break down around him. He is definitely a pass first QB who is gifted with great athletic ability. He is still a project... but has the skill to excel in a good situation and has only scratched the surface of his potential.

5. Joe Flacco - QB - Delaware - The best arm in the draft. Made some good strides at the senior bowl working from under center. Still needs signifigant polish but has all the tools. Decent athletic ability with prototypical size. Mechanics on delivery are a little rigid and on the slow side with a mild hitch.

6. Andre Woodson - QB - Kentucky - Has good size and the arm to make all the throws. Has a bit of a robotic delivery and is a little slow getting it out. Has a really high release and stands tall in the pocket to look down the field. Not real

7. Dennis Dixon - QB - Oregon - He is a QB that is difficult to evaluate without offseason workouts. Tried to play with a torn ACL and is a

8. Erik Ainge - QB - Tennessee - Ainge has all the tools except exceptional arm strength... He can make all the throws and really spins it well. I like his delivery and the progress he has made under David Cutcliffe. He still has mental lapses at times like in the SEC championship. He will stare down receivers at times. He needs to prove he has it between the ears. If he does I think he could be a steal. Accuracy gets a little shaky because his delivery gets a little sloppy.

9. John David Booty - QB - USC - JDB has a lot of football intelligence, but not a lot of exceptional skills. He is ideally a fit for a team that is looking for a QB to run a WCO. He has worked from under center in a pro-style offense. He has a good clean delivery and decent footwork. He might be the most NFL read QB in the draft.


10. Colt Brennan - QB - Hawaii -
11. Paul Smith - QB - Tulsa
12. Alex Brink - QB - Washington St.
13. Kevin O'Connell - QB - San Diego St.

Running Back

1. Darren McFadden - RB - Arkansas - Better athlete than Running Back, but has it all. He has smooth acceleration and fantastic moves in the open field. Runs high but with power.

2. Rashard MendenHall- RB - Illinois - He is simply a stud. He is everything you want in an NFL RB. He has good speed and excellent patience. He can catch the ball out of the backfield. He does everything well. Needs to run sub 4.55 at the combine to solidify his elite status and I think he will.

3. Jamaal Charles- RB - Texas - This is an athlete and track guy who has turned himself into a fantasic football player. With Limas Sweed sidelined by injury, Charles stepped up as the #1 option on the Texas team and surpassed everyones expectations. Charles has learned to be patient and I really like his hands and break away ability. He is big enough to run between the tackles and has more power than given credit for.

4. Jonathan Stewart - RB - Oregon - Stewart is one of 5 backs IMO with first round talent in this draft. He has size, speed, and tremendous power. He is a big back, but has another gear as witnessed by him leading the NCAA in Kick Returning as a Sophomore. He has enough wiggle to get to the next level. Might not be as patient as you would like all the time, but when he is focused and motivated he is an elite talent. Needs to form up on his blocking a little more.

5. Felix Jones- RB - Arkansas - A better pure runner than DMC. He sets up his blocks better than DMC and has patience and vision that you like in a pure RB. He is a good, not great receiver. He has tremendous value in the return game. He has gamebreaking speed and is a threat to take it to the house every play.

6. Kevin Smith - RB - Central Florida - The more I watch this guy the more I am impressed with his natural ability. He runs with impressive field vision and always under control. He finishes runs with power. The question mark is long speed. Might be a 4.65 guy and will not fit in all offenses. He seems to always make positive yardage and his balance and vision as a big back will help him at the next level.

7. Mike Hart - RB - Michigan - Probably the most well named prospect in the draft because what he lacks in natural ability he makes up for with heart and natural instincts. One of the best at setting up blocks and seeing the hole before it develops. His instincts and natural ability and understanding of the running game make him play a step and a half faster than he actually is. Has a little Emmitt Smith in him as he never seems to take the huge hit and makes 4 yards into 7. Best balance and pad level in the draft.

8. Ray Rice - RB - Rutgers - Rice is a gifted natural runner. Excellent vision and has burst through the hole. Might not have breakaway long speed, but he can get to the next level and makes people miss. Has had a lot of carries and might have worn down in the second half of the season due to his work load and nagging injuries. He will be a productive NFL runner.

9. Xavier Omon - RB - NW Missouri St. -
10. Matt Forte - RB - Tulane -
11. Tashard Choice - RB - Georgia Tech -

12. BenJarvis Green-Ellis - Powerful back who gets better as the game goes on. In a draft without a ton of "bigger" backs Green-Ellis could go a little higher than ranked because he is a really solid between the tackles runner who finishes runs. He has good vision and enough speed to get the

13. Justin Forsett - RB - California -
14. Dantrell Savage - RB - Oklahoma St. -
15. Steve Slaton - RB - West Virginia -
16. Allen Patrick - RB - Oklahoma -
17. Chauncey Washington - RB - USC -
18. Jalen Parmele - RB - Toledo -

19. Tony Temple - RB - Missouri - Temple played his best on the biggest stages in his college football career. Had over 200 yards in both of his last two bowl games including now owning the all time rushing record in the Cotton Bowl. Temple is deceptively quick and low to the ground. He has a strong lower body and good balance. Has had some injury concerns and his size does not project that well to the NFL. Not to mention he has not displayed the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. Interesting late round pick who could contribute in a big way on special teams.


Full Back

1. Peyton Hillis - FB - Arkansas - Hillis is a complete FB with excellent speed, power and strength. He has the best hands of any FB in the draft and can do it all. He might be the most complete player in the draft at any position. He could come off the board in the 2nd round and make the entire Arkansas stable of RBs go in the first 60 picks.

2. Jacob Hester - FB - LSU - Hester is a really solid RB who never fumbles the ball. Needs to show that he can catch the ball.

3. Owen Schmitt - FB - WVA - Played out of position at WVA. He is ideally suited to be a lead blocker in the I formation and he will find a place in the NFL to be a punishing lead blocker and occasional ball carrier.

Wide Receiver

1. Malcolm Kelly - WR - OKlahoma - Lean athlete with smooth athleticism. Snatches the ball with his hands. Very smooth in and out of his breaks and makes plays seem effortless. Has grown greatly in the last year into a more complete receiver. Very deceptive speed. Creates seperation easily. The top pure WR in this draft.

2. DeSean Jackson - WR - California - Lightning quick. The best combination KR/WR in the draft. Runs good routes, but still needs to know when to turn the speed down and set up the cornerback. He is a little on the small side, but would be a perfect slot receiver in the NFL. Questions remain as to whether or not he can be a #1 in the NFL, but he has too much talent to keep out of the first round.

3. Mario Manningham - WR - Michigan - Known as Chad Henne's deep threat for the last 3 years, Manningham has added polish to his game and has really come into his own as a wide receiver. Excellent hands. Battles for the ball and makes tough catches even when covered.

4. Devin Thomas - WR - Michigan St. - He is very raw, but fantastically gifted as an athlete. A bit of an enigma at times but really blossomed this year becoming more of a receiver and relying less on his sheer athletic ability to get by.

5. Adrian Arrington - WR - Michigan - Might be a better all around receiver than more heralded teammate Manningham. Makes catches in traffic and runs excellent routes. The question is speed and seperation. Has the size and hands teams look for in the NFL. Played huge in the game against Florida, but needs to show he can seperate vs. top corners and beat the jam. Needs to add a little weight without losing speed.

6. James Hardy - WR - Indiana - A true mismatch all over the field. Hardy has excellent hands and body control. has questions regarding his speed that will be answered at the combine and dramatically effect his draft stock.

7. Andre Caldwell - WR - Florida - Caldwell became Tim Tebow's favorite WR this year and really showed his skills as a receiver. Not afraid to go over the middle of the field and get hit, but has enough long speed to get behind defenses. Could become an excellent #2 in the NFL or even a lower tier #1.

8. Limas Sweed - WR - Texas - Big smooth receiver who creates mismatches with his size. It is questiionable wherther he can create seperation. Needs work on routes other than the fade and deep post. Has a

9. Early Doucet - WR - LSU - There are no flaws in Doucets arsenal. However there is nothing that truly stands out in his ability.

10. Adarius Bowman - WR - Oklahoma St. - Physically gifted with solid angular physique. Has had the drops so far this post-season, but showed consistent hands throughout his career.

11. LaVelle Hawkins - WR - California - Hawkins is a tremendously consistent receiver with very natural hand who catches the ball away from his body.

12. Earl Bennett - WR - Vanderbilt - Natural and gifted receiver who played at a high level on a sub-par team in the SEC. Runs excellent routes and gets open consistently. Not a burner, but adequate speed and good quickness.

13. Jordy Nelson - WR - Kansas St. - Has good size and solid speed. Uses his hands well. Can get deep

14. Harry Douglass - WR - Louisville - Has excellent speed and looks to have what everything teams look for in a slot receiver at the next level. Has excellent hands and quickness to create seperation. Could rise after good #'s at the combine.

15. Donnie Avery - WR - Houston - Angular speedster who lacks size at 175lbs. Has breakaway speed and decent hands. Has some question marks around him. Can he put on weight and maintain speed. Can he beat the jam in the NFL? Can he improve his route running enough to become anything more than a slot receiver? More questions than answers about a player who is very intrguing.

16. Davone Bess - WR - Hawaii - Bess has really quick feet and excellent hands. He is the best of a big group of Hawaii Wide receivers in the draft. He will be a good fit as a slot receiver in the NFL. He maintains his quickness in and out of his breaks and has a solid understanding of the passing game. Can make people miss after catching the ball.

17. Jerome Simpson - WR - Coastal Carolina - Big receiver with long arms and huge hands. Fluid athlete with good hips who is clearly a project due tohis athletic gifts, but the fact that he is so raw in all aspects of the passing game.

18. DJ Hall - WR - Alabama - Hall is under-appreciated prospect from a big time program. He has some off the field issues that will contribute to his slide down draft boards. He is not a great athlete, but he runs solid routes and has good hands. He snatches the ball with strong hands and makes tough catches.

19. Mario Urrutia - WR - Louisville - Urrutia is an excellent receiver when heathy. He is a little injury prone and has trouble catching the ball with his hands. Has lapses in concentration, but when healthy and focused, he might have as much ability as anyone in the draft.

20. William Franklin - WR - Missouri - Would be ranked higher if not for the emergence of Jeremy Maclin as an elite prospect. Franklin has good speed and excellent leaping ability. An injury at the East West shrine game prevented him from playing. Hands were inconsistent this year as he seemed to want to make a big play every time he touched the ball. Has some wiggle in the open field and can make yardage after the catch. He has to work on his route running and catching with his hands. Needs to maintain speed in and out of his breaks. Good developmental prospect.

21. Eddie Royal - WR - Virginia Tech -
22. Dexter Jackson - WR - Appalachian St.
23. Darius Reynaud - WR - West Virginia -
24. Keenan Burton - WR - Kentucky -
25. Dorien Bryant - WR - Purdue -

Tight End

1. Fred Davis - TE - USC - Davis is a nice athlete who runs good routes and creates seperation. He has the ability to stretch the field in the middle and will make the tough catch. Needs to work on leverage while blocking but shows the feet and strength to improve.

2. Martin Rucker - TE - Missouri - Rucker is mismatch due to his size and angular physique. He does not have the best speed and does not create seperation in man to man coverage. He is much better finding holes in zone coverage and absolutely punishes people after the catch showing surprising strength in gaining extra yardage. Rucker is a much better blocker than given credit for and shows good strength and drive when blocking.

3. Kellen Davis - TE - Michigan St.
4. John Carlson - TE - Notre Dame
5. Martellus Bennett - TE - Texas A&M -

modazfuk
02-02-2008, 07:01 PM
Your Colt Brennan SIG rocks!!!

oldLibid21
02-02-2008, 07:12 PM
It's hard to find flaws in Ryan's game? How about throwing interceptions for one? And for a couple of the players, you didn't finish the paragraphs.

This is a great assessment. But the presentation was sort of lacking because I found myself quite confused in some areas. You also repeat a lot of phrases one too many times like 'at times' and such. Good job though. +rep

SaintsFanForLife
02-02-2008, 07:17 PM
No bad....Just like Libid21 said find some new words to discribe things,,,,,But over all nice job +rep.....

Cashmoney
02-02-2008, 08:26 PM
Its pretty hilarious that your sig says colt brennan! #1 QB! And then you have him ranked 10th in your rankings. LOL funny right there.

Vikes99ej
02-02-2008, 08:29 PM
Its pretty hilarious that your sig says colt brennan! #1 QB! And then you have him ranked 10th in your rankings. LOL funny right there.

He lost a bet.

KCJ58
02-02-2008, 08:30 PM
He lost a bet.

did he bet D-Unit?

Cashmoney
02-02-2008, 08:42 PM
He lost a bet.

Ohhhh.... I see.....
Well that makes it a lot less ironic.

nikkayeah
02-02-2008, 10:50 PM
i thought avery was around 190 pounds

keylime_5
02-02-2008, 11:13 PM
Schmitt is gonna be the #1 fullback on almost everyone's draft boards this April, mark my words there. That is all.

LonghornsLegend
02-03-2008, 12:49 AM
Your te rankings seem a little off, bennett is too low id bump him to two or three...And your sleeping on Jermichael Finley, underclassman people havent got to see much of yet but rating him as a prospect he has to be in the top 5

iowatreat54
02-03-2008, 01:09 AM
Schmitt is gonna be the #1 fullback on almost everyone's draft boards this April, mark my words there. That is all.

I absolutely agree...the only reason he isn't already is because everyone was on Peyton Hills' nuts after the LSU win...Schmitt IMO is the best FB in the draft because of his blocking ability...Hills has proven he can run a little and block a little, but Schmitt has proven he can block for the best running attack in the country and in the end, I'm pretty sure the NFL would rather have a great blocking FB than a FB that can run pretty good and block pretty good

jnew76
02-03-2008, 10:42 AM
I appreciate all of the responses and will definitely work on the wording in the descriptions because they are redundant. I am working on the offense and defensive lines now and they will be out by next weekend.

On Owen Schmitt, I think he could be ranked ahead of Hester by the draft and he is a beast! However, I think Hillis is a phenomenal talent and I doubt he is surpassed as the #1 FB. Hillis and Schmitt are different players, so it depends more on the team drafting them as for when they are drafted.

On the Sig... I did lose a bet to D-Unit due to Colt Brennan throwing the ball 60 yards in the skills challenge. I said he wouldn't throw it over 53 yards. I was wrong and display this beautiful sig to show the world.

Babylon
02-03-2008, 12:35 PM
One thing i noticed about the WRs is nearly everyone likes to rank them underclassmen first and then the seniors. To me that is sort of a basketball mentality where people assume if you come out early you're better than if you stay. I think when we get to the combine and take a look at these guys with the naked eye i'm not convinced that guys like Kelley,Manningham, Thomas and Jackson are going to be better than seniors like Sweed,Bowman,Hawkins Doucet and Nelson. As a matter of fact i'll be surprised if in all cases they are.

keylime_5
02-03-2008, 12:45 PM
Teams' draft boards usually don't change that much between now and the draft. The combine shakes things up a little bit, and the pro days do have impacts as well, but most of teams' assessments of players come from film. Schmitt is probably already the #1 FB on most people's boards, he will be the first fullback drafted.

Babylon
02-03-2008, 01:10 PM
Teams' draft boards usually don't change that much between now and the draft. The combine shakes things up a little bit, and the pro days do have impacts as well, but most of teams' assessments of players come from film. Schmitt is probably already the #1 FB on most people's boards, he will be the first fullback drafted.

I'll disagree with the first part but do agree that Schmitt is the number 1 fullback.

Jonny
02-03-2008, 01:15 PM
Why do you think Ray Rice wore down?

He's a more athletic, more durable Hart.

Iamcanadian
02-03-2008, 09:34 PM
A complete waste of time until the combine and pro days take place. Nobody knows for sure how any prospect will perform when he's removed from the comfort of his college program which may well have protected him from his weaknesses by never asking him to preform a task that he wasn't good at. At the combine and pro days, each athlete will have to perform in drills which will test each of his skills and allow scouts and GM's along with their coaches to see how he might do against far more skilled personnel. That's what the post season is all about.

Iamcanadian
02-03-2008, 10:07 PM
Teams' draft boards usually don't change that much between now and the draft. The combine shakes things up a little bit, and the pro days do have impacts as well, but most of teams' assessments of players come from film. Schmitt is probably already the #1 FB on most people's boards, he will be the first fullback drafted.

This is a complete myth. The post season is everything for prospects. In college and on film, you can only get a rough idea of how good an athlete a player is. What can you really learn from film when most college players may only play a game or 2 against another college player who actually has pro ability. What does it tell you if Kelly, the Oklahoma WR beats a college CB who has 4.65 speed. He's never going to see a CB who runs a 4.65 in the pros.
Film is all the scouting department can go on until the post season. It provides scouts and GM's with a very sketchy draft board. Until the scouts and GM's get to see a prospect workout and get a firm idea of just what his true measurables are, how can they tell who really has pro potential except in a general way. You also have to remember that colleges do not for the most part play anything resembling a pro offense or defense and the adjustment to pro ball is immense. Until you actually work a player out in a pro system, there is almost no way to ascertain how each prospect will make the adjustment.
After the combine and pro days are over, the scouts and GM's go over the film to tell if what they see on film is confirmed or denied by their workouts and measurables. Draft boards under go massive changes after the post season is completed especially for juniors who are a lot rawer than seniors and for small college players who nobody can really tell how they will do till they actually workout along side other pro prospects. They never played against anybody in college who is remotely a pro athlete.
Once the film and the workouts are gone over with a fine tooth comb, then a final draft board is established by pro teams and there are considerable movement from their original board established by film alone. I've seen guys go from a top 10 prospect prior to the post season to a 5th or 6th rounder after his poor measurables are established, and I've see many a prospect go from a 2nd or 3rd rounder into round 1 and even the top 15.
Do you really think that the NFL and NFL teams spend considerable money at the combine and Pro days, and that all the GM's, scouts and coaching staffs attend because they have already established their draft boards. Nobody in their right mind would establish a finished draft board without working a player out, interviewing him, have the doctors check him out, and check his measurables.

YAYareaRB
02-03-2008, 10:58 PM
2. Jacob Hester - FB - LSU - Hester is a really solid RB who never fumbles the ball. Needs to show that he can catch the ball.


Que? That's one of his strengths, IMO

jnew76
02-03-2008, 11:32 PM
Que? That's one of his strengths, IMO

He did have 62 catches in college. Only 14 this season, and from what I see on tape is that he fights the ball at times. Needs to show he has consistent and reliable hands. I did not say his hands were bad, only that he needs to show that he can be a weapon in the passing game and really be a multi-talented weapon.

blkwdw13
02-04-2008, 11:40 AM
Where is Chris Johnson RB from ECU did you forget him or do you have him ranked that low.

Race for the Heisman
02-04-2008, 08:25 PM
They never played against anybody in college who is remotely a pro athlete.

For whatever else was in that rant, I dunno, but I have to disagree on this point. Of course this might hold true for a great majority of the match-ups in college, but to say never is really stretching it. Think Ali Highsmith vs Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. Think Jake Long vs Vernon Gholston. I could go on and on about individual examples, and I didn't even catch that many games this year. My point is simply that when you watch a player play against specific players, you can know that both will be pros some day and use that in an evaluation. One more example. Think about anyone that played USC. That entire defense will probably get drafted whenever they come out, and most of them in first day (old definition). Therefore every PAC-10 player that matched up against them could be evaluated as playing against NFL-caliber athletes. Just saying.

jnew76
02-04-2008, 08:31 PM
Where is Chris Johnson RB from ECU did you forget him or do you have him ranked that low.

I did forget him. Thank you for pointing that out. I am not nearly as high on him as some others are. I see him in the 9-12 range as far as the RB's go. Looking forward to seeing what he weighs in at the combine and see if he has the frame to add a little weight. Looks a little small on film.

ironman4579
02-04-2008, 08:59 PM
For whatever else was in that rant, I dunno, but I have to disagree on this point. Of course this might hold true for a great majority of the match-ups in college, but to say never is really stretching it. Think Ali Highsmith vs Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. Think Jake Long vs Vernon Gholston. I could go on and on about individual examples, and I didn't even catch that many games this year. My point is simply that when you watch a player play against specific players, you can know that both will be pros some day and use that in an evaluation. One more example. Think about anyone that played USC. That entire defense will probably get drafted whenever they come out, and most of them in first day (old definition). Therefore every PAC-10 player that matched up against them could be evaluated as playing against NFL-caliber athletes. Just saying.


You seem to have missed the first part of this quote.



"and for small college players who nobody can really tell how they will do till they actually workout along side other pro prospects. They never played against anybody in college who is remotely a pro athlete."



IAC was talking about small school guys when he said they never played against anybody who is remotely a pro athlete.

Race for the Heisman
02-05-2008, 02:49 PM
You seem to have missed the first part of this quote.



"and for small college players who nobody can really tell how they will do till they actually workout along side other pro prospects. They never played against anybody in college who is remotely a pro athlete."



IAC was talking about small school guys when he said they never played against anybody who is remotely a pro athlete.

In that case I retract my statement. I should have read it more thoroughly but that line caught my eye in particular and I had only read the first few lines prior to that.